Another Shock: Self-Righteous and Naive President Wrong on British WWII Torture

As Michael Shuerer called him -- a Jacobin, someone whose imaginary reality is so totalitarian as to hedge out uncomfortable facts.

"I was struck by an article that I was reading the other day talking about the fact that the British during World War II, when London was being bombed to smithereens, had 200 or so detainees," said Obama, who's evidently reading Andrew Sullivan. "And Churchill said, 'We don't torture,' when the entire British -- all of the British people were being subjected to unimaginable risk and threat."

But reports (at the link) do suggest the Brits used some enhanced interrogation techniques against SS officers.


More links at Just One Minute.

The whole idea of a premise in argumentation is that it supposedly supports the conclusion urged.

The premise here is that the Brits didn't resort to harsh interrogation techniques in WWII, despite the fact they were fighting the darkest army in the history of the world, which was, incidentally, buzz-bombing England's biggest city, attacking purely civilian targets.

The conclusion urged is, of course, Therefore, we must not, and need not, resort to such techniques in fighting Al Qaeda.

But if the premise relied upon fails -- as it seems to here -- doesn't that weaken the conclusion? It may not destroy it (if a then b does not imply if not a then not b, of course), but if it was relied upon as probative, then surely it is weakened by subtraction of one supporting proof.

That's how it works in the real world, of course. Not so much in the Jacobin fantasias of Barack Obama and Andrew Sullivan. Whose minds are, admirably, wholly immune to the contagions of nuance and doubt.

Thanks to someone.

He Lives in an Enchanted World of Fairy-Tale and Fancy: Barack Obama, starring in Enchanted.

Posted by: Ace at 02:36 PM



Comments

1 Even if it were true we didn't torture nazi scum, does that mean we should not torture terrorist scum? Does Obama really think the two cultures are identical? I know he thinks they are morally equivalent, but German soldiers, for all their evil, had honor and a basically western set of values. The Islamic terrorist does not.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 30, 2009 02:40 PM (PQY7w)

2 Obama lied, Nazis died.

Posted by: Reagan Youth at April 30, 2009 02:41 PM (ckHhY)

3 El Duce lied and torturers died.

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 02:42 PM (f6os6)

4 Do you actually mean to tell me a president is reading Andrew Sullivan?

We are well and truly f_cked.

Posted by: Dave at April 30, 2009 02:43 PM (Xm1aB)

5 Absolute crap. Anyone who has ever eaten English food knows the Brits are all about torture.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 02:44 PM (VW9/y)

6 But I want it to be so, therefore it is.

Posted by: Barack Obama at April 30, 2009 02:44 PM (hlYel)

7 Just more of the same...

The One will simply rewrite history to suit his agenda.

Change we can believe in.

Posted by: DaveK at April 30, 2009 02:47 PM (+JrLX)

8 Sigh

I did a two minute independent Google search about England and torture and posted about this very subject last night in the AoS Moron Caves here at AoSHQ and ace reads about it at Ben from Politico and gets all hot-n-lathered up.

ace, ace, ace - Ben should be quoting *your blog* not the other way around. Sure, you should be visiting Ben's barber and following him to his tailor. But, ace - bubbie - read your blog.

.

.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 30, 2009 02:48 PM (ruzrP)

9 In other news, there will be no reduction in the chocorat in April.

Posted by: rockhead at April 30, 2009 02:50 PM (DvaIL)

10 This "fact" will be heavily cited by lefties, the MSM, Jon Stewart, etc., as another case against torture. That it is not true is irrelevant.

Just watch. You will begin to see this all over.

Posted by: dan-O at April 30, 2009 02:51 PM (teb/C)

11 I blame Churchill.

Posted by: t-bird at April 30, 2009 02:52 PM (FcR7P)

12 As Michael Shuerer called him -- a Jacobin,

Sheuer (yesterday's variant), Shuerer (today's)...

Here, try this one: Scheuer. That's his last name.

Posted by: Honestly, I'm Plowed at April 30, 2009 02:52 PM (PMGbu)

13 >> Do you actually mean to tell me a president is reading Andrew Sullivan?

Well he's just trying to get the conservative point of view on matters. Remember, he's bipartisan!

Posted by: dan-O at April 30, 2009 02:53 PM (teb/C)

14 The proof - is in the link attached to my sig - (Thanks Pixy!)My fearsome Googling skillz are on display three posts after that.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 30, 2009 02:53 PM (ruzrP)

15 Barry lied about the Brits in WWII? It doesn't matter. Most idiots in this country couldn't find England on a map of England. He knows he can bullshit about any subject due to the overall lack of knowledge in this country thanks to our wonderful education system that does nothing but indoctrinate with liberal BS.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 30, 2009 02:53 PM (1Jaio)

16 I've thought for a long time that this stupid agonizing over "torture" is a mark of a deeply unserious society. A sick and craven society. Our "torture" amounts to the kind of noshing you give a younger brother: head-rubs, indian-burns, knocks on the head when Mom isn't looking. Ted Kennedy is personally responsible for more deaths than every guard at Abu Ghraib, but to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth you'd like that thousands of innocent souls have been dispatched to Hell in our torture-dungeons.

For our fighting men -- not just soldiers, but also spies and other agents -- it's no longer worthwhile to take prisoners because they cannot be interrogated for all intents and purposes. Anything more severe than a hand-slap and the usual suspects will be baying at the moon about "torture". And it may leave the interrogators personally legally liable. It's not worth it. So...a soldier has to weigh the danger in the balance. If a terrorist is an immediate danger but cannot be interrogated, there's no real reason to leave him alive.

As Americans get ever-more divorced from the hard and dirty work of actual soldiering, they lose the ability to understand how war works down there in the mud and the crud. If you're fighting a fair fight then someone fucked up badly further up the chain -- the whole point of warfare is to have an unfair fight. The point is to so thoroughly defeat your enemy that he either surrenders or abandons the field.

I am always shocked at how many people I know who have never fired a weapon in their entire lives. Not so much as a little .22 plinking rifle. They don't have the first idea of how a firearm works. In fact they view firearms with a mingled kind of horror and dread, as if the metal is giving on some kind of deadly radiation. I don't understand such people; they seem to be more alien in some ways to me than enemies I face across the field of battle. At least my enemies understand how war works.

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 02:54 PM (/0a60)

17 I had a boss whose motto was:

"Consistency of the message is more important than truth."

The left grabs a sound byte and runs with it. Fiction is fine as long as it fits their narrative.

Posted by: PBnJ at April 30, 2009 02:57 PM (EG7l/)

18 In the Dieppe raid, some idiot Canadian soldier - not my granddad - left his field manual on the beach. It detailed instructions to shackle POWs. Hitler freaked.

I've seen lots of photos of POW camps, Allied and Axis, I know men who were in the camps. Torture wasn't part of the deal. No hoods. No shackles. No waterboarding, no smearing feces and making men masturbate in front of bull dykes whilst wearing panties on head. Sure, some torture happened, lots of stuff happened, yet the Allied countries didn't see the need to throw their consitutions out the window, or construct childish "ticking bomb" scenarios to justify torture. It wasn't needed in WWI and WWII and it is not required in this "war" on abstract nouns. How about not letting people hostile to your civilization into your country in the first place? You know, like they did back in WWI and WWII, when they had saner immigration laws?

They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 02:57 PM (DJjeC)

19 Jacobin, Jack-off, Jack-hole, Jack-ass, who knows jack shit

With regard to these terrorists, compare and contrast:

George Washington would have summarily hung them.

FDR would have shot them after a military tribunal.

Obama wants to give them a hug and universal health care coverage.

Posted by: DelD at April 30, 2009 02:58 PM (DqLUN)

20 I've seen lots of photos of POW camps, Allied and Axis, I know men who were in the camps. Torture wasn't part of the deal.
I've seen lots of photos of bombed-out cities from WWII. Killing masses of civilians was very much part of the deal. So?

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 03:02 PM (OQW4n)

21 DelD @ 19

Just the muslims are the ones getting government assistance. I have a feeling the right wing extremists aren't going to get the soft touch.

Posted by: sears poncho at April 30, 2009 03:03 PM (uj/0b)

22 Oh goddammnit.

Posted by: pendejo grande at April 30, 2009 03:03 PM (PXZI9)

23 Adriana Lima:

Your knowledge of WWII's interrogation techniques is...highly selective. You might want to read up a bit on the Guadalcanal campaign when the American Marines first met their Japanese enemies for the first time. The savagery displayed on both sides might open your eyes a bit. Americans didn't take many prisoners in those campaigns, and many captives tended to die mysteriously before being handed over to the MPs. There is a story about Marines zeroing their rifles on Iwo Jima by using Japanese corpses as targets.

War is not a parlor game, and it's not for the dainty or faint of heart. If you can't do the hard thing get the fuck out of the way and let a soldier do it for you. Then you can sleep safe in your bed while cursing the soldier for his brutality.

"People sleep peaceably at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 03:03 PM (/0a60)

24 Yeah, BumperStickerist, I quoted your post and basically, the articles in Dec. 2005 noted all the people who basically starved to death but in Feb. 2006, somebody was quoting this "Tin Eye" fellow who could manage to get information by just talking harshly. (And some of the psychological warfare he engaged in was called torture by the Left. Sleep deprivation would have been mild.)

My guess is that he personally eschewed torture in public, but turned a blind eye to his subordinates doing it.

It was my understanding that there was a big difference: (1) The war was over during most of the London Cage and they wanted confessions. Torture is useless for confessions because they'll confess to anything. But it is not useless for obtaining intel, because you can test the information they provide. (2) They were defeated. Nazism was completely deceased, there was no hope of a resurgence, let alone life eternal for resisting.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 30, 2009 03:03 PM (T0NGe)

25 yet the Allied countries didn't see the need to throw their consitutions out the window
Man, did your history teachers screw you over. If I were you I'd try to get my money back.

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 03:04 PM (OQW4n)

26 What Adriana also neglects to mention is that the Allies would often hand over high-value prisoners to the Soviets who tended to scruple a bit less over the whole torture thing. The Sovs were in no mood to coddle the Nazis in their care; Lubyanka was the ninth circle of hell if you were a member of the Schutzstaffel. Some of those guys died by inches over the course of days and days: the Sovs would give them blood transfusions just to keep them going a while longer. You want to know what real torture looks like? Check out what Lavrenty Beria did in the basements of Lubyanka sometime. (And Beria was an equal-opportunity kind of fellow: he worked on Nazis, Red Army officers, wayward politicians, and was known to have a taste for pre-teen girls as well.)

To call what the US does to its prisoners "torture" is to warp the term into something that has no real meaning. Which I suppose is the actual point as far as the Left is concerned. It's like the whole thing with the Geneva Conventions: they really only apply to uniformed enemies, but the Left has broadened the group to just about every half-assed terrorist in the world with an AK and a grudge.

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 03:13 PM (/0a60)

27 Hey BO go screw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: MES41067 at April 30, 2009 03:13 PM (VmAoa)

28 Adriana Lima, your wrong.

First don't accord POW status to our current enemy - its an insult to soldiers everywhere.

Then, start your research with the CSDIC.

Hell Churchill requested authority to gas the Kurds, do you think he didn't authorize a little slappy face. And, again - how did the Allies treat the unlawful or out-of-uniform combatants in WWII - summary execution.

You might want to look up what happened to the German spies and saboteurs in England and the US. No hotels!!

You don't even want to look into what they did in the colonies.

Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 03:14 PM (L64A6)

29 Is Adriana Lima... Cedarford in drag?

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 30, 2009 03:14 PM (fnU+z)

30 Oh snit, Adriana Lima, the historian is back. Maybe it can work for Obama rewriting history. Seems Excitable Andi already has a job doing so.

Posted by: di butler (New and Improved. Now with 20% more boobs!) at April 30, 2009 03:15 PM (qPIRP)

31 Michael Scheuer is on fire. Bush and Obama are both Jacobins. I think that's a tad harsh on Bush, but it's an apt way to describe Obama.

Posted by: WTF Capital Investments at April 30, 2009 03:16 PM (GtYrq)

32 Obama, as he's kissing the mirror, "Watch and wonder as they fawn on me as I just pull something else out of my ass. Like I said, I've got a gift. (Can you believe that guy, Reid? What a effen idiot.Nearly as smart as Biden. Sheesh - now there's a real maroon! Wonder if Chris Mathews is gonna be here tonight. That leg twitch thing - how does he do that? And Olbermann - I really think that guy wants to do me. Oh well, off to receive my adoring worshipers.)"

Posted by: Kae Gregory at April 30, 2009 03:19 PM (RkRxq)

33 Could you people pass the hat around, hire a smart person to construct a smart argument on your behalf, then get back to me? This isn't even a challenge.

My knowledge of WWII history is actually pretty good; shall we talk about Operation Keelhaul, or are we still pretending that didn't happen, as we have for the past 60 years now? If we're going to play the pseud game, might I suggest you read Pat Buchanan's book Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World.




Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 03:22 PM (DJjeC)

34 Not torturing foot soldiers and pilots who know nothing is a lot different thantorturing radical leaders who are the "masterminds" of there movement.

Posted by: Roadking at April 30, 2009 03:23 PM (0yjkj)

35 Adriana's defending the rag heads you think that he'd normally look down upon (based on his other comments here in his first 24 hours) because he views them as allies against the Israelis who run the world's foreign policies and if only the West wrote-off the Israelis and the U.S. (and Canada, oddly enough) went isolationist, then nothing bad would ever happen again.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 03:24 PM (MGu62)

36 Adriana Lima definitely equals Cedarford in drag.

No question.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 30, 2009 03:24 PM (fnU+z)

37 Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 03:22 PM (DJjeC)

Wide Wide World of the Strawman.

Posted by: Dick_Nixon at April 30, 2009 03:24 PM (kaOJx)

38 Pat Buchanan's book

Yep, it's either cedarford or cedarford's sockpuppet. I'll waste no more time on this knothead. Go back to whatever jew-hating hole you crawled out of, turd.


Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 03:26 PM (/0a60)

39 They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has nothing to do with interrogation.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 03:26 PM (DJjeC)

40 Ah, a Patsie. That now explains everything. Everything.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 30, 2009 03:27 PM (T0NGe)

41 "if it was relied upon as probative"... wow! Ace is really taking his vitamins and eating his spinach....

Posted by: UofC Conservative at April 30, 2009 03:27 PM (3FkM/)

42 Thanks for the 411 adriana lima (cum Cederford).

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 30, 2009 03:28 PM (fnU+z)

43 If you want to discuss repatriation during WWII, you should leave a clown like Buchanan out of it. If you want a good, first hand account of process, read A Blond Knight of Germany.

Not sure how it applies to current issue.

Posted by: Jean at April 30, 2009 03:29 PM (L64A6)

44 Yep, it's either cedarford or cedarford's sockpuppet. I'll waste no
more time on this knothead. Go back to whatever jew-hating hole you
crawled out of, turd.

Wow, it took nearly a full day for the $PLC gang to start stalking me and smearing me as teh antisemite, they're slipping. Reading and recommending a book by Pat Buchanan makes me a, quote, "(J)ew-hat(er)" now? Perhaps it would be more convenient if you pathetic race hustlers provided a list of entities in the universe that you *don't* feel are anti-Jewish, you fucking crybabies.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 03:30 PM (DJjeC)

45 it has nothing to do with interrogation.

He knows this because thats what Markos told him.

Posted by: Techie at April 30, 2009 03:31 PM (QYuCD)

46 Keep bringin' the noise and the funk adriana lima (cum Cederford).

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 30, 2009 03:31 PM (fnU+z)

47 I posted this on the bart simpson deficit thread but it was late in the thread and so I'll repeat it here.
---------------

Obama was talking about German POWs but Churchill didn't hold back even a little bit from other Germans that the Brits got their hands on. Ever hear of the Double Cross system?

Germans parachuted spies into the UK. The Brits would catch some. They gave them a choice. Either play ball with us and be a double agent or we execute you.
German says no, he dies.
German says yes, the Brits let him send radio messages back to Germany passing false information and, most importantly, arranging to meet up with future Germans spies. 100% of those spies were caught and they got the same choice. It wasn't long before every single German spy in the UK was either a double agent working for the Brits or dead.

Now let's compare that with the US and Al-Qaeda. Those German spies weren't in uniform. They weren't subject to the Geneva convention. And the Brits were about as nasty as you can be - Cooperate or Die. What do we do with Al-Qaeda guys? Sleep deprivation. Water Boarding. PLEASE There's no comparison. Can you imagine the howls from the left if we gave Al Qaeda guys a choice of play double agent or die?

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 30, 2009 03:36 PM (t+QSg)

48 On a tangenital-but-related note, those who want a really good backgrounder on the American Army's efforts in the African and European theaters during World War II ought to pick up Rick Atkinson's books An Army At Dawn and The Day of Battle. Absolutely superb books.

For the Pacific theater, Morison's The Two-Ocean War is a comprehensive look at Naval actions.

Max Hastings has written two good books: Armageddon, about the final battle in Germany; and Retribution, about the final battles for Japan. Hastings is rather more revisionist than I like, and tends to be rather judgmental about Allied military actions, but overall both books are good histories.

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 03:36 PM (/0a60)

49 So you attacked Mark Steyn yesterday over him being a non-conservative Jooooo, something that he's neither BTW, but you don't have anything against them?
Was cedarford a Canadian? I think this guy is one of us because of him white power tripping over Jamaican immigrants (that Steyn is secretly aiding) in a thread yesterday. (Jamaicans are a major source of gang crime and "senseless" violence in Toronto.) I doubt an American would have any complaint about Jamaicans; and I doubt 'Dieppe' would mean anything to most.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 03:38 PM (MGu62)

50 UofC Conservative -
As Y-not (IIRC) asked the other day in another thread, are you a Maroon?

Posted by: Lewis at April 30, 2009 03:41 PM (Y3uPw)

51 And on armies: The Wehrmacht by Wolfram Wette. What a fearsome engine the German Wehrmacht was -- the best army of World War II, and the most vicious, and the most brutal. It took the combined action of three Allied Armies to beat them: the Russian, American, and British Armies all acting on concert, with smaller forces (Polish partisans, free French forces un DeGaulle, and a plethora of others).

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 03:41 PM (/0a60)

52 One of my favorite things about this blog is how fast the 'turfers get pegged and then Hulk smashed by the commenters into a pile of goo. Like our new friend Ariana.
It's positively enchanting.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 03:45 PM (VW9/y)

53 So you attacked Mark Steyn yesterday over him being a non-conservative Jooooo, something that he's neither BTW, but you don't have anything against them?
Don't forget him having it out for homosexuals too. And I also think he's shown a problem with all ethnic groups really. So, hates Jews, Gays, ethnic minorities. About the only ones he doesn't have a problem with are white christians it seems. I wonder if he's got a preference for the blond haired blue eyed ones.

Posted by: buzzion at April 30, 2009 03:45 PM (Lrsi6)

54 Finally, good books on the Marine island-hopping campaign:

Guadalcanal, by Richard B. Frank
Goodbye Darkness: A Memoir of the Pacific War, by William Manchester
The Ultimate Battle: Okinawa 1945, by Bill Sloan
The Pacific War 1941-1945, by John Costello (Probably the best one-volume treatment)

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 03:47 PM (/0a60)

55 Wow, it took nearly a full day for the $PLC gang to start stalking me and smearing me as teh antisemite, they're slipping.
You came here with the explicit purpose of picking fights with people. Why whine when you get insulted?

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 03:52 PM (OQW4n)

56 What's the matter, Adriana? First you can't handle a barrage of questions at the first Chrysler thread and now, here, you're whining about the neocons (or whoever) stalking and smearing you. (Oh, no, I'm being stalked on a blog's comments section--quick, phone the Metros.) I thought Aryans were tough.
BTW, it's pretty faggy to give yourself the sockpuppet name of a female Brazilian model. And I mean couldn't you have at least used one of the names of the Prussian Blue chicks? At least they're blonde.
And somehow I doubt Adriana, after accusing Steyn of being "mildly anti-Christian" IIRC, is a practicing Christian. I'm sure he just cares about it/uses itas a synonym for "Western" or a generic description of his roots.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 03:54 PM (MGu62)

57 The most irritating thing about this whole "Obama flubs British History, Part IV" story is that the Fool-in-Chief refers to the prisoners of war that Britain was holding as "detainees", as if everyone captured, regardless of their uniformed status, spy or not-spy status, whether there was a war declared or not, etc. etc. etc. matters not a bit under the law, which of course it certainly does.
Hey, Obama! Prisoners of War are DIFFERENT than fucking terrorists! Al Qaeda's goons hold a status that is even less than that, under international law, of soldiers fighting for the most evil regime in history, the Nazi War Machine. And you, You Fucking Sanctimoneous Retard, think they should be treated with kid gloves.
We're doomed.

Posted by: Sharkman at April 30, 2009 04:02 PM (69J41)

58 Prussian Blue chicks????

I had to google that. LOL, a band named after a stain used to check valve seating surfaces. Back when I was a Machinist Mate we used a lot of that stuff, but mainly putting it on the ear pieces of the phones to give people indelible blue ears.

Posted by: Vic at April 30, 2009 04:03 PM (f6os6)

59 >
54 Finally, good books on the Marine island-hopping campaign:

Goodbye Darkness: A Memoir of the Pacific War, by William Manchester

Posted by: Monty

Gawd, I'm such a war geek. I've read 3 of those 4 books.

Anyway, wanted to chime in to second the recommendation of "Goodbye Darkness". An astounding work. Another, similar, book I've read recently is "With the Old Breed" by Eugene Sledge. Sledge was a PFC in the First Marine Division. The book covers basic training, Pelileu and Okinawa.

Another low level, first person account is the classic "Pacific War Diary" by James Fahey. He spent 1943-1945 working a 40mm Anti-Aircraft gun on the CL Montpelier in the Pacific. The Montpelier participated in more invasions than any other ship and was in as many battles as any other.




Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 30, 2009 04:06 PM (t+QSg)

60 Churchill said, 'We don't torture.'

Isn't this the same Churchill who allowed Coventry to get plastered by the Luftwaffe to protect the ENIGMA code breaking program? The One's arrogance is exceeded only by his ignorance.

We need more ruthless bastards like Winnie who will do whatever is necessary to save Western Civilization.

Posted by: butch at April 30, 2009 04:08 PM (bSXOz)

61 "I thought Aryans were tough."

What the fuck? I'm getting called a Nazi because I recommended a book by Buchanan?

I am so going to troll the shit out of this blog. Fucking cryptos.

You know what's really creepy about this blog? Had I only learned of it after Obama was sworn in I'd think it was the best blog I've ever seen. The problem is that I know you've spent the last 8 years or so supporting an unprecedented expansion of government, the Free Homes For Minorities Act, affirmative action, the extension of the VRA for another 25 years, mass illegal immigration, a war where the fuel bill alone is a billion dollars a week (!!!!), intrusions on liberties, and too many other brilliant ideas to name. Which of course seriously undermines your credibility when you now start criticizing these things. Anyway, it's ghoulish how wholly indistiguishable you are from a real conservative at first glance, I'd never be able to tell the difference.

Bootfuck the warbloggers from the GOP, they're hazmat.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 04:09 PM (DJjeC)

62 "I wonder if he's got a preference for the blond haired blue eyed ones."

Oh it's on, motherfuckers, it's on. The full weight of my narrative? Yeah, you've earned it.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 04:11 PM (DJjeC)

63 Fucking cryptos.

Your pals over at Stormfront are no doubt wondering where you've gotten off to. Toodle along now and let the adults talk.

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 04:12 PM (/0a60)

64 The problem is that I know you've spent the last 8 years or so supporting an unprecedented expansion of government, the Free Homes For Minorities Act, affirmative action, the extension of the VRA for another 25 years, mass illegal immigration, a war where the fuel bill alone is a billion dollars a week (!!!!), intrusions on liberties, and too many other brilliant ideas to name.
The problem with our friend is not what he knows, it's what he thinks he knows which just isn't so.
I'm starting to think he's Grade A moby meat.

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 04:13 PM (OQW4n)

65 making men masturbate in front of bull dykes whilst wearing panties on head

Torture? Hell, some of us pay for that!

To the Left, "facts" are their most current talking points. If they think it helps their side and hurts ours, it becomes a "fact".

There have been more journalists/writers waterboarded for story purposes than actual US prisoners for interrogation. If waterboarding was really torture, those people wouldn't be doing it willingly.

Also, Churchill may or may not have tortured, but there's no doubt that he bombed the absolute living hell out of his enemies. So we'll shut down our stinking torture prisons and start blowing terrorist-friendly areas to smithereens. You lefties OK with that? I am.

Posted by: tsj017 at April 30, 2009 04:13 PM (TBwnU)

66 so supporting an unprecedented expansion of government,

You fucking imbecile. Have you never read this blog?

affirmative action

Really? You really are fucking insane. Learn to fucking read.
mass illegal immigration

Holy fucking shit, how fucking stupid are you? You think this blog is a hotbed of amnesty support, you retard?


Posted by: Waterhouse at April 30, 2009 04:13 PM (/sh1v)

67 The problem is that I know you've spent the last 8 years or so supporting an unprecedented expansion of government, the Free Homes For Minorities Act, affirmative action, the extension of the VRA for another 25 years, mass illegal immigration, a war where the fuel bill alone is a billion dollars a week (!!!!), intrusions on liberties, and too many other brilliant ideas to name.
Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, you're a farking idiot.
Perhaps you should re-investigate what you think you know.

Posted by: Lewis at April 30, 2009 04:14 PM (Y3uPw)

68 When I was a kid I always tried to use that excuse " all the other kids did it" but it never worked on mom. Maybe it did with yours and so maybe that's why you are trying to use it again here

Posted by: John ryan at April 30, 2009 04:15 PM (wHLW0)

69 Oh for god's sake, one retard leaves another one enters. It's like some bizarre twist on Thunderdome.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 30, 2009 04:17 PM (VW9/y)

70 Fucking cryptos.

Aaaaaand . . . BUSTED.

Only dipshit lefties use such terms.

But by all means, continue your astroturfing activities. I love it when lefties totally waste time and effort. If you spend your time trolling here, it keeps you from other, possibly more destructive activities.

Posted by: tsj017 at April 30, 2009 04:17 PM (TBwnU)

71 Maybe it did with yours and so maybe that's why you are trying to use it again here

Try again. Ace is pointing out that your President Mom is at best horrifically ignorant and at worst a twisted lying fuckwit..


Posted by: Waterhouse at April 30, 2009 04:18 PM (/sh1v)

72 It's like some bizarre twist on Thunderdome.

Who runs Bartertown?

Posted by: Monty at April 30, 2009 04:19 PM (/0a60)

73 When I was a kid I always tried to use that excuse " all the other kids did it" but it never worked on mom.
Maybe that's because you're as dumb as a box of rocks. I imagine Mom was regretting drinking while preggers when she saw you pop out.

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 04:19 PM (OQW4n)

74 Oh for god's sake, one retard leaves another one enters. It's like some bizarre twist on Thunderdome.

HAIL HYDRA! IMMORTAL HYDRA! IF YOU CUT OFF ONE HEAD, TWO SHALL TAKE ITS PLACE! WE SHALL NEVER BE DESTROYED!

Posted by: tsj017 at April 30, 2009 04:19 PM (TBwnU)

75 An astounding work. Another, similar, book I've read recently is "With
the Old Breed" by Eugene Sledge. Sledge was a PFC in the First Marine
Division. The book covers basic training, Pelileu and Okinawa.

Let me second that. "With the Old Breed" is an excellent book covering the day to day experiences of a private during the some of the bloodiest battles of the Pacific. His writing is very readable and matter of fact even as he describes truly horrible events. Sledge survived, became a professor of biology and later revisited some of the scenes from his book.

Posted by: Mætenloch at April 30, 2009 04:21 PM (z1Jlf)

76 Ace, what the fuck kind of blog you running here? A conservative can't say mildly conservative stuff without getting called a Nazi? You're proud to run a blog like this? You're proud to have attracted race hustling pissants?

Micheal Shuerer. "Former" CIA guy, MSM meat puppet. Yeah, he's credible.

despite the fact they were fighting the darkest army in the history of the world

The Wehrmacht doesn't even make the top 100 most badass armies list, you are a fucking retard. As a matter of record they were vastly less murderous toward civilians, and more humane toward POWs, than either the British or the Red Army, to say nothing of pretty much every army that preceded them who were even more brutal. Whoops, I guess I just defended the Nazis' record there. Oh dear, somebody might call me a Nazi now.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 04:26 PM (DJjeC)

77 C'mon lima bean,,,, The morons haven't supported any of those things . What the hell are you talking about ?

Posted by: aubrey at April 30, 2009 04:31 PM (vJZ+j)

78 Ace, what the fuck kind of blog you running here? A conservative can't say mildly conservative stuff without getting called a Nazi? You're proud to run a blog like this? You're proud to have attracted race hustling pissants?



Oh, it's just an LGF troll.


Go back to blowing Charles, ya twat.

Posted by: GFY at April 30, 2009 04:31 PM (tHvih)

79 Oh dear, somebody might call me a Nazi now.
Nope, I'll just call you a moby again.

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 04:43 PM (OQW4n)

80 By the way, Victor Davis Hansen totally destroyed Buchanan's crappy WWII book in his review. Bet the moby doesn't know this.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 30, 2009 04:51 PM (FO+YO)

81 Nope, I'll just call you a moby again.

No, I suspect that AL is actually a Buchananite paleo-con with the expected 'jew skepticism'. He's so far out there that he thinks we're all PC squishes. Plus his idea that conservatism is a racial trait seems like an innovation in nutjobbery. At least I've never heard of it before.

Posted by: Mætenloch at April 30, 2009 04:55 PM (z1Jlf)

82 Again,
the left insisted Bush was stupid, yet Obama proves time and again he is actually a moron.

More projection.

Posted by: Jay at April 30, 2009 04:59 PM (iy1Xt)

83 Victor "Mmm-Bop" Hanson just isn't a very intelligent man. Knowledgeable, educated, but dirt stupid. He's a warblogger, and, ipso facto, an idiot and a traitor.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 04:59 PM (DJjeC)

84 I've seen lots of photos of POW camps, Allied and Axis, I know men who were in the camps. Torture wasn't part of the deal.

You are full of shit and a moron beyond belief.

Posted by: Jay at April 30, 2009 05:00 PM (iy1Xt)

85 Torture wasn't part of the deal...hmm, I've got a relative who, if not dead, would beg to differ. He got pretty roughed up (and that's an understatement) by the Nazis.

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2009 05:04 PM (EpmMs)

86 A conservative can't say mildly conservative stuff without getting called a Nazi?
Railing against the jews and homosexuals is not conservative stuff. Niether is referring to black people as Negroes. Things you have done since appearing here. You're not saying anything conservative. You're spewing intolerant shit, probably hoping someone agrees with you so you can go running to wherever you came from and claim how evil we all are here.

Posted by: buzzion at April 30, 2009 05:05 PM (lCm/E)

87 ...and I've got a dad, who, if not dead, would tell you just how nasty people can get (USMC, Pacific Theater -- along with four of my uncles; sorry, all of them are dead too; still, they'd beg to differ with you).

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2009 05:06 PM (EpmMs)

88 He's a warblogger, and, ipso facto, an idiot and a traitor.

Could you please define what you mean by the term warblogger? Because you keep using it as if it were an obvious epithet. Also do you have a newsletter?

Posted by: Mætenloch at April 30, 2009 05:07 PM (z1Jlf)

89 So you must hate it bad when VDH made Pat "there's jooos under my bed!" Buchanan look like an imbecile for writing such amateurish crap.

Pat really needs to stop eating paint chips and go back to his finger painting.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 30, 2009 05:07 PM (FO+YO)

90 No, I suspect that AL is actually a Buchananite paleo-con with the
expected 'jew skepticism'. He's so far out there that he thinks we're
all PC squishes.

I'll cop to that, minus the Jew thing. I've probably nailed more Jewish broads (1, still) than Woody Allen, have Jewish friends - Sephardic Jewish friends - who are way more racist than me, etc., etc.
Plus his idea that conservatism is a racial trait seems like an innovation in nutjobbery.

That's not quite what I am saying, though it's close. There is no ideology, it's all about identity politics now. Race and gender and gayness are so tightly coupled with political affiliation that ideology is irrelevant.

It's essentially everyone versus working age straight white males, reds versus blues. We, the WASWMs, are the only ones not influenced in some way by Marxism, we're the only ones not mooching as much as we can from the till, so I guess that leaves us as the only conservatives. This really isn't that controversial in terms of evidence, a lot of lefty poli sci profs would reluctantly agree with what I am saying.

But back on topic: They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has
nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 05:08 PM (DJjeC)

91 "Victor "Mmm-Bop" Hanson just isn't a very intelligent man.
Knowledgeable, educated, but dirt stupid. He's a warblogger, and, ipso
facto, an idiot and a traitor."

It's Cedarford with a bad case of the stoopids.
I can't decide if it's a moby acting bat shit crazy, an LGF freak or just a Buchananite scumbag of antisemitic hatred.

Get that crazy mofo some Joo Juice or Tamiflu or something that'll cure what ails it, stat.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 30, 2009 05:13 PM (fnU+z)

92 That crazy bastard has Joo friends.
What a defense.
Classic!

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 30, 2009 05:14 PM (fnU+z)

93 Railing against the jews and homosexuals is not conservative stuff.

Never railed against "jews", faggot, and attacking the vicious little Trotskyist twerps who comprise the gay lobby is, in fact, fundamentally conservative.

Niether is referring to black people as Negroes.

Fuck you, Al Sharpton, I'll call them what I want when I want how I want. Yes I am intolerant; I'm not bound by Christian morality. I attack my enemies, and the negroes and homosexualists who are destroying western civilization have chosen to stand across from me. Fuck em, this is war.

But back on topic: They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has
nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 05:15 PM (DJjeC)

94 Monty -- you forgot Sledge "With the Old Breed"

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2009 05:16 PM (EpmMs)

95 No, I suspect that AL is actually a Buchananite paleo-con with the expected 'jew skepticism'.
I don't buy it. He's a moby. E.g
They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.
Pure Grade A moby. He's a member of the hard left.

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 05:19 PM (kOGd4)

96 Ace,

Ban the racist piece of shit.
Please.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 30, 2009 05:20 PM (fnU+z)

97 Yes I am intolerant; I'm not bound by Christian morality.
See? He's no Buchananite.

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 05:20 PM (kOGd4)

98 They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has
nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

Patsy, just because you keep repeating the lie doesn't make it true.

Oh, forget it. I'm done. Ace, ban the paleo-turd. I'd rather teabag honest cloud than
see the place splattered all over with patsy's ignorance

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 30, 2009 05:21 PM (FO+YO)

99 That crazy bastard has Joo friends.
He probably is a Jew. I hear there were lots of ADL members on the Nazi blogs up there in Canada.

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 05:22 PM (kOGd4)

100 The Wehrmacht was considerably more humane towards civilians?
Again, I've got relatives -- from Poland and Italy -- that would tell you a different story. Hell, my husband has relatives, from Germany, ex-Wehrmacht, that could tell you a different story (not that they're proud of it, just honest and in no mood to make excuses).

**sorry, noticed somebody mentioned Sledge before I did; that's what you get for skimming the comments. Still, a good book.

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2009 05:25 PM (EpmMs)

101 96
Ace,Ban the racist piece of shit.Please.
I'm screenshotting that trophy. The term "racist" was invented by Leon Trotsky in 1905, as a response to and a rejection of Darwin's On the Origin of Species.

When you use the term racist, you do two things: you identify yourself as a Trotskyist, and you reject Darwin. I know this is somewhat counter-intuitive, but the result is that conservatives are the only people who believe in the science of evolution. Ergo, we need more conservatives in government, academia, and science to combat the anti-science agenda of the Trotskysists, which is to say women, gays, and brown people.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 05:27 PM (DJjeC)

102
Again, I've got relatives -- from Poland and Italy -- that would
tell you a different story. Hell, my husband has relatives, from
Germany, ex-Wehrmacht, that could tell you a different story (not that
they're proud of it, just honest and in no mood to make excuses).
Women sure love their anecdotal stories, eh? Sweetie, the plural of anecdote is not data. It isn't all about you.

But back on topic: They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has
nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 05:29 PM (DJjeC)

103 I'm screenshotting that trophy. The term "racist" was invented by Leon
Trotsky in 1905, as a response to and a rejection of Darwin's On the
Origin of Species. When you use the term racist, you do two
things: you identify yourself as a Trotskyist, and you reject Darwin.
I know this is somewhat counter-intuitive, but the result is that
conservatives are the only people who believe in the science of
evolution. Ergo, we need more conservatives in government, academia,
and science to combat the anti-science agenda of the Trotskysists,
which is to say women, gays, and brown people.

Michael Savage, is that you?

Posted by: Mætenloch at April 30, 2009 05:31 PM (z1Jlf)

104 The stoopid clearly knows no bounds.
Perhaps if we give it a banana the monkey will dance.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at April 30, 2009 05:31 PM (fnU+z)

105 That crazy bastard has Joo friends.What a defense.Classic!But would he let one bang his sister?

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 05:31 PM (MGu62)

106 andycanuck,

Nobody bangs adriana lima's sister except adriana lima.

Posted by: adriana lima de Blog at April 30, 2009 05:35 PM (fnU+z)

107 AL -- either you are trying your best to sound just like you think a "right wing extremist" should (in which case, you sir or madam, are quite incorrect, please get out into the real world some time soon -- the moldy basement air could set you up for weakened immunity against this nasty hog flu). If you are doing this to try and "out" anyone to agree with your line of reasoning here, good luck but no soup for you sunshine. (and by the way the "Jew broads I used to bang" -- nice try at sounding vile, you made the grade, but I've heard more creative attempts).
and/or:
you like wearing little red, white, and black armbands and flinging your arm about in a certain way -- in which case you are again in need of some fresh air, and it has been the woe of my family and myself to protect you and yours all these many years; you and yours are a contributing factor to the mess my beloved country is in right now, no wonder you stick up for terrorists who espouse themselves a fascist, intolerant worldview.
In all the above cases, let me inform you of this: you are not a conservative persay, true; what you are my dear is a fascist. Please go play blindfolded in some heavy traffic.

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2009 05:37 PM (EpmMs)

108 I love this.

First:
Women sure love their anecdotal stories, eh? Sweetie, the plural of anecdote is not data. It isn't all about you.

Then, mindlessly,
They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

And yes, you're too stupid to see the irony.

Then again, it isn't all about you.

Posted by: Jay at April 30, 2009 05:40 PM (iy1Xt)

109 Oh, and yes, I added my little stories as a means of illustrating that there is some personal knowledge on this blog (probably more than just me I'd warrant) that are calling BS on your statements.
And my "little stories" can at least be backed up by archival evidence.
Sorry...sweetie.

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2009 05:40 PM (EpmMs)

110 I for one am perfectly willing to trust the lessons of history as observed by a guy who looks at this blog and thinks it's Illegal Immigration Amnesty Central.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 30, 2009 05:40 PM (iU6vm)

111 When you use the term racist, you do two things: you identify yourself as a Trotskyist, and you reject Darwin. I know this is somewhat counter-intuitive
I'd use a slightly more pungent term than "counter-intuitive".
"Batshit crazy", for instance.

Posted by: flenser at April 30, 2009 05:40 PM (kOGd4)

112 For future reference, we Canadians prefer to be called "toots", uknown jane, rather than "sweetie".

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 05:45 PM (MGu62)

113 weetie, the plural of anecdote is not data.

Note that you haven't bothered to produce any "data" to speak of, and won't because you can't.

Anyway, I did enjoy this:

Sleep deprivation is not like torture - it is a form of torture, a tactic favoured by the KGB and the Japanese in PoW camps in World War Two

And this,
Working in a mineshaft as much as a mile long and more than 800 feet in depth, the prisoners were made to produce daily quotas of copper ore - and administered daily beatings when they could not meet the quotas.
...
Under such conditions, hundreds of POWs died and were buried in a nearby cemetery over the next three years; and those who survived the war would continue to suffer and die from their injuries in the years following World War II.

That took 30 seconds of google to utterly destroy your continued dipshit assertions.

You can stop any time now, clown.

Posted by: Jay at April 30, 2009 05:46 PM (iy1Xt)

114 Hey Ace,

You, and everyone else, has missed the big point: WWII was a mass war.

Shall Israel bomb the shit out of a Gaza city whenever a rocket is launched from there? Because that's how we fought WWII. Should we bomb the entire Swat area in Pakistan because the Taliban / al Qaeda /their allies are in charge there? That would be WWII style behavior.

Which would you rather have done to you: waterboarding? Or your home blown up, with two of your kids burning to death?

In WWII we bombed cities. Now we go after the individuals who are personally guilty of crimes. We need more information to go after individuals than we needed to go after whole countries.

In the Cold War we threatened to nuke entire countries, murdering babies, children, and adult civilians in order to get the leadership that threatened us. We didn't have to torture anyone to figure out where Moscow was.

Now we're trying to go after the al Qaeda leadership, without killing everyone who has the misfortune to be near them.

Do you think that's better? Then don't compalain about the individual interrogations that we have to do to get that information.

Posted by: Greg Q at April 30, 2009 05:46 PM (87k2j)

115 You, and everyone else, has missed the big point: WWII was a mass war.

Thank you, Greg Q, for that brilliant insight, most of us had forgotten WORLD WAR II was a mass war.

Speaking of war books, let me play the trump card: Keegan, A History Of Warfare. If you've read it, you'll know that real war is and was often ritualistic, not the total warfare you might think. There were rules, respected by both sides, not always, but often, and well before Augustine's City of God laid the framework for what we call Just War Doctrine.

But back on topic: They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has
nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 06:06 PM (DJjeC)

116 But back on topic: They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.
Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 06:06 PM (DJjeC)


...and you know all this how? Read it on the back of your Captain Crunch cereal box?

Adriana, you come across as a frustrated lesbian bull dyke mad at the world of men for being more masculine than you are. I understand your frustration. I sympathize. But you must get a grip, gal... having boobies ain't all bad.

Posted by: Former President-elect Barak Obama at April 30, 2009 06:12 PM (iafWn)

117 Shit like this is further proof that Obama learned his history from drunken late night bull sessions in college. The Brits have never been squeamish about prisoner treatment. During The Troubles, IRA guys routinely got tuned up for information or taken out, depending on how dangerous they were. The end result? The IRA is reduced to selling coke and extortion to make any money at all.

But once again, Obama simply makes shit up, and the press eats up every word. Does no one in the WH press corp belong to a book club? None of these twits knows ANY history? Jesus.

Posted by: UGAdawg at April 30, 2009 06:13 PM (oQzPK)

118 Keegan was writing about the development of warfare as a social construct among civilized nations when he wrote that, and he makes mention of instances of total war; he was not responding to warfare via terrorist acts -- although in passing it could perhaps be extrapolsted from his writings that this event would be an occurance where the social construct has either broken down or never applied in the first place.
Andy -- then all the more reason to call toots "sweetie"!

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2009 06:20 PM (EpmMs)

119 If you've read it, you'll know that real war is and was often ritualistic

This is the sort of mangling of Keegan you'd expect from someone who reads this blog and thinks 'Wow, look at all these affirmative action supporters'.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 30, 2009 06:21 PM (iU6vm)

120 But back on topic: They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has
nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

Okay you've made your assertion, now please back it up with some evidence.

Also you realize of course that if someone provides a single counter-example where torture was done to obtain information, your assertion is false.

Posted by: Mætenloch at April 30, 2009 06:21 PM (z1Jlf)

121 "social construct"

I doubt very much this phrase has ever passed his lips, it's 21st century chickspeak.

Adriana, you come across as a frustrated lesbian bull dyke

Howsabout not speculating whether I am a Nazi or a bulldyke and actually engaging me on the issues? Projection and psychoanalysis - extremely Marxist; we in the het community don't recognize either as valid.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 06:25 PM (DJjeC)

122 Anyone checking LGF's comments for screenshots of this thread?
I try not to cruise over there, it gives me gas.

Posted by: Professor Hubert J Farsworth at April 30, 2009 06:26 PM (Vnv8/)

123 He lives on an enchanted island ... Protected by the Pravda forces of darkness.

Posted by: tarpon at April 30, 2009 06:26 PM (7evkT)

124 Okay you've made your assertion, now please back it up with some evidence.

Sure, but first can I get your mailing address? I just want to know where to send the invoice, I don't step and fetch for free, fatty.

Also you realize of course that if someone provides a single
counter-example where torture was done to obtain information, your
assertion is false.

I get paid good money for my freakish ability to think logically. Your logic stinks worse than unknown jane's nether regions.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 06:29 PM (DJjeC)

125 But back on topic: They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.
Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 06:06 PM (DJjeC)

So what's your point? The United States never tortured.

Posted by: CoolCzech at April 30, 2009 06:33 PM (iafWn)

126 Anyone checking LGF's comments for screenshots of this thread?
Hmm, the Nazi hunting makes more sense now, remember I'm new here. Has that LGF fellow been calling Ace a Nazi? I hear he's quite the race hustler. And you're sensitive that comments here might be used against Ace, and that I might be a false flagger? That's understandable. Too bad this is a warblog and a cancer on western civilization, otherwise I'd have some empathy.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 06:33 PM (DJjeC)

127 I get paid good money for my freakish ability to think logically. Your logic stinks worse than unknown jane's nether regions.

Okay moby or not, AL is clearly a troll. Trollbusters to aisle 3!

Posted by: Mætenloch at April 30, 2009 06:42 PM (z1Jlf)

128 Funny how Adriana never answers any of the questions put to him even simple ones like "Why the woman's sockpuppet?" or the like.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 06:44 PM (ydAip)

129 The attempt by the liberals and other shoddy thinkers to redefine torture to cover everything from putting out eyes with red-hot pokers and smashing joints into jelly with hammers to playing loud music and keeping people up (sort of like a frat party) is just part of business as usual for them. It's not dissimilar to comparing people to Hitler or the business of calling guns "assault weapons."
And the strawman idea idea that "torture" doesn't work because "people will confess to anything" fits right in.
You can't argue with people like Adriana because they already know they are lying, but believe it to be for "a greater good." They are trolls and should be ignored.
Alas....

Posted by: Flubber at April 30, 2009 06:45 PM (0jQJW)

130 Be careful, Mætenloch, Adriana's a "consultant". Although he didn't say who he consults for... like Canada's DND as a Human Rights Advisor... or doing what.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 06:46 PM (ydAip)

131 Torture is evil. We should let ourselves be slaughtered rather than stoop to tortuturing poor, misunderstood people who are fighting fro their freedom from the Jooooos and Western exploitation. Saddam was really a swell guy and never tortured anyone because CNN told me and so did the Daily Show. Besides we all know the John Kerry the valiant American War hero who was wounded 87 times (but never spent a day in hospital because he's really Superman) is against the War and torture.

And our Dear Leader will create universal love and peace and cure me of this nasty rash I have. He will also give me a double wide, and I'll never have to pay for gas again!

Posted by: Honest Cloud at April 30, 2009 06:47 PM (0Qynq)

132 This Adriana creature sounds a whole lot like the weirdo who's been calling Kathy Shaidle a Tamil-supporting Marxist who wants "porous borders."

Posted by: Andrea Harris at April 30, 2009 06:47 PM (vLf8O)

133 anyone think Adriana the racist shithead from Canada learned all they know about AoSHQ from the wikipedia page?

Posted by: buzzion at April 30, 2009 06:49 PM (lCm/E)

134 Ok, you want to discuss deeply: tell me, where and how did you come by your interpretation of Keegan? And where, outside of the esteemed Mr. Buchanan (possibly) did you garner your information concerning the treatment of WWII POWs -- and further along that line of dialectic, how did you come to parallel the interrogations of POWs with the interrogations of terrorists, going back of course to your interpretation of Keegan's text?
And I'm just trying to engage in a little "chickspeak" to, you know, like, build some sort of dialectical rapport with you. Because I care so much. Consider it a social construct.
As for my "nether regions" -- I believe your knowledge of those matches your knowledge of history, as well as your rhetorical prowess; any further evidence you may want to make your claim, I'm afraid I cannot acquiesce to your request as it would be philosophically, ideologically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and, let's face it. physically repugnant to my personage. Take what you will from that, and let the rest of the readers interpret it as they see fit.

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2009 06:51 PM (EpmMs)

135 Whoops, my bad -- "open immigration." Which anyone reading Kathy's blog knows is about as true as claiming Ace supports big government. The commenter on that site also makes similar anti-gay statements to our Adriana.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at April 30, 2009 06:51 PM (vLf8O)

136 Holy God, Andrea, I just posted the exact same thing at the Western Standard Shotgun blog to "Your Better" just a minute ago. (Although it looks like my comment isn't up yet.) And I was asking yesterday if he was Warman too, BTW.
Would a moderator please tells us if this guy's ISP is from Ottawa.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 06:57 PM (ydAip)

137 132
This Adriana creature sounds a whole lot like the weirdo who's been calling Kathy Shaidle a Tamil-supporting Marxist who wants "porous borders."

Yep AL sure sounds like the Your Better commenter from The Shotgun blog. Of course when you're on the internet, no one knows you're really Richard Warman.

Posted by: Mætenloch at April 30, 2009 06:58 PM (z1Jlf)

138 See you in about 3 hours. Everyone check out the Shotgun blog and see how closely Adriana and Your Better sound--even claiming to be economic geniuses.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 30, 2009 07:00 PM (ydAip)

139
Would a moderator please tells us if this guy's ISP is from Ottawa.

These are the countrymen to whom I am supposed to be loyal, folks. Give it 4 years and your friends and neighbours will be just as paranoid as andyman here.
But back on topic: They torture to intimidate, to punish, to incite, and for kicks, it has
nothing to do with extracting information, stop with that nonsense.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 07:04 PM (DJjeC)

140 Be careful, Mætenloch, Adriana's a "consultant". Although he didn't say
who he consults for... like Canada's DND as a Human Rights Advisor...
or doing what.

Normally I'd laugh it off, but I do travel to Ottawa on business occasionally so I'd hate to run afoul of the HRC and spend a few years in the Canadian gulag.

Posted by: Mætenloch at April 30, 2009 07:08 PM (z1Jlf)

141 Andy, I don't think that Adriana has figured out that you're Canadian. Which is odd -- I thought Richard Warman was a lawyer and I thought lawyers were smart! There goes another illusion.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at April 30, 2009 07:13 PM (vLf8O)

142 I am so going to troll the shit out of this blog.

Only true statement the pig-ignorant dumbfuck ever made.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 30, 2009 07:23 PM (iU6vm)

143 Adriana Lima


That you hogground?

Posted by: Professor Hubert J Farsworth at April 30, 2009 07:25 PM (Vnv8/)

144 You know what the British did do? Bombed and starved to death millions of Axis civilians. As did we. And it was fucking worth it. You fucking idiots.

Posted by: MlR at April 30, 2009 07:38 PM (0vdx6)

145 > 60 Churchill said, 'We don't torture.'

Isn't this the same Churchill who allowed Coventry to get plastered by the Luftwaffe to protect the ENIGMA code breaking program?

Posted by: butch

Myth. The story was told in the first book about Enigma, repeated in the author's interview on 60 minutes but it's not true.

http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=690

... Dr. Jones, who was given copies of all "Ultra" decrpyts at the same time as Winterbottom, states that there was no such message. In fact in his book he recalled traveling home that night and wondering where the raid was actually going to end up.

Certainly Churchill thought that the raid was going to be over London. As he was preparing to leave Downing Street for Enstone in Oxfordshire he was handed a report from the Air Ministry which he took with him to read in the car. He did not get very far. On reading the document he ordered his driver to turn around and go back to Downing Street, explaining to his aide that the Air Ministry expected a major German raid on the capital that night. (Sir John Martin letter to The Times 28 Aug.76; Longmate, AIR RAID pages 57-5. After sending his staff away to a shelter, and accompanied by General Sir Hastings Ismay, Churchill went to the Air Ministry roof and there waited for the bombers which never came.

Proof enough that no one left the city to burn for reasons of high strategy is the fact that on the afternoon before the raid Bomber Command attacked 27 enemy airfields and even Berlin. The unfortunate fact is that the raid was expected over London, not Coventry. Even so, 119 aircraft were launched to protect the city once the bombers were seen to be heading for it. Coventry, as the historian Ronald Lewin has written, is a twice-crucified city: once by the bombers and then by those writers who, despite the evidence to the contrary, spread the lie that the city was martyred to protect "Ultra."



Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 30, 2009 07:48 PM (t+QSg)

146 > ... Too bad this is a warblog smart milblog and a cancer on western civilization, ...
Posted by: Adriana Lima

FTFY.

I like the cancer bit. Can I keep it?

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 30, 2009 07:56 PM (t+QSg)

147 Speaking of WWII - in 1940, while claiming publicly he was opposed to sending American boys to fight overseas - FDR launch as "illegal war" against the Germans in the Atlantic Ocean.

I know that hypocrisy is at the heart of modern liberalism, but just consider FDR's record for a moment in comparison to modern leftwing talking points.

He launched an "illegal and secret war" while lying about it.

He put people into concentration camps based on ethnicity.

He ordered the purposeful targeting of civilians in war.

He gave aid to totalitarian and genocidal regimes.

He resorted to force against enemies while eschewing diplomacy.

And I could go on. It would be interesting to see some of these code pinkos and friends interviewed about their hero's view on war versus there own.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 30, 2009 08:00 PM (odYmd)

148 I do like Adrianna's gib. Its so metrosexiuual. I knew her when she used to be Barney Frank.


Juwst to over awe all these peasants why not list your massive military and intelligence experience that allows you to make such incredibly progressive assertions!

Guess that's why the USMC had to be altered twice regarding torture. Its use elicited so little information that the military just had to change its code twice in response. Or how the Gestapo just failed to get any information at all until it rsorted to making people listen to Bush speeches.

You tell them Adrianna. You're my soul mate and almost my intellectual equal.

Posted by: Honest Cloud at April 30, 2009 08:07 PM (0Qynq)

149 144
You know what the British did do? Bombed and starved to death millions
of Axis civilians. As did we. And it was fucking worth it. You fucking
idiots.

We delivered half of Europe to Stalin, and turned the other half into dickless socialists. We financed and equipped Stalin's slave army, he was our pal and our ally and it was largely his slaves who did the fighting in Europe, we just mopped up. Worth it? Not by a longshot, you preposterous fucking bolshevik, it was nothing less than the beginning of the end of western civilization.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 08:17 PM (DJjeC)

150 re: Adriana Lima: "Torture wasn't part of the deal. No hoods. No shackles."
Wearing shackles isn't torture, it's standard procedure for domestic prisoners. The Al Qaeda detainees were hooded so they couldn't reconnoiter their surroundings. Gitmo is an accompanied tour people bring their spouses children. The US didn't want potential escapees making a beeline for a school killing kids, like their comrades did in Russia.
"No waterboarding, no smearing feces and making men masturbate in front of bull dykes whilst wearing panties on head."
This was not part of the CIA trecniques. People who engaged in such behavior were prosecuted,

Posted by: adagioforstrings at April 30, 2009 08:38 PM (xuWF4)

151 "...it was nothing less than the beginning of the end of western civilization."

Yeah, and you and your friends, Richie (or "Your Better" or "Adriana Lima" or whatever you want to call yourself) are all for the end of western civilization. It is some small comfort that when your Islamist paymasters are finally in power all you'll (get instead of a fat stipend and a harem of preteen girls and boys) is a choice between being beheaded with a knife or an axe.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at April 30, 2009 08:40 PM (vLf8O)

152 I think Adriana has now officially gone off the rails... even her troll personality doesn't make sense anymore.

I think I saw something like this on Star Trek: Voyager once, when the Holograph Doctor started acting weird... it was NOT pretty...

Posted by: CoolCzech at April 30, 2009 08:51 PM (iafWn)

153 Hey Czech, you think this is one of our old frineds from RWN?

Posted by: Dick Nixon at April 30, 2009 08:53 PM (Vnv8/)

154 friends, damnable fingers

Posted by: Dick Nixon at April 30, 2009 08:56 PM (Vnv8/)

155 Oh Adrianna you make me want to wet my panties. FDR delivered Europe, the fearless leader you really do admire but are mightly pissed at because he didn't deliver all of it to your hero.

I notice you were so humble that you didn't post your undoubtedly impressive credentials which would demonstrate to those toads what a supremely qualified and educated individual you are. Never mind your post demonstrates the depth of your knowledge.
Of course the glorious Red Army defeated the Nazis. The fact that the majority of the GAF was employed against the Western allies is unimportant, nor the million plus troops tied down in AAA defenses around the Reich, nor the fact that 40% of the German Army wasn't employed on the Russian front after 1942. Let us ignore the Red Army used American supplied trucks and jeeps, so much so the word Willys became part of the Russian language. And the fact that the Russian RR system was keep operational by the delivery of over 40,000 railway cars and 8,000 locomtives meant nothing. Nor the 14,000 aircraft supplied to the Red Air Force. AIRCRAFT SO COVETED NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR PERFORMANCE SO MUCH BECAUSE OF THOSE LUXURY OPTIONALS SUCH AS RADIOS AND GUN SIGHTS THAT WERE PAINTED ON THE WIND SCREENS OF THE COCKPIT.
Or the 400,000 barrels of aviation fuel, 28 million yards of uniform cloth and 18 million pairs of boots. Do not dazzle us by informing us that the valiant Red Army was so effective that over a million Soviet citizens fought for the Germans. Do not neglect to inform us that the Russian military was so motivated it imprisoned all who had been captured by the Germans and utilized summary exection as a means of keeping up troop moral.
In fact do not mention that Germany's first ally in its invasion of Poland was Russia.
Yeah Western civilization propsered by having those wonderful French turned the Archduke's assination from a regional conflict into a world war. Or having good comrade Wilson demonstrate how progressive Americans could be.

Truly we are impressed with your knowledge. It sends a thrill down my legs all the way to my high heels. So tell us exactly what does a pre op tranny like you like to do when not extolling the wonders of Comrade Stalin?

Posted by: Honest Cloud at April 30, 2009 08:57 PM (0Qynq)

156 153 Hey Czech, you think this is one of our old frineds from RWN?
Posted by: Dick Nixon at April 30, 2009 08:53 PM (Vnv8/)

Yeah, "she's" got Hog written all over her...

Posted by: CoolCzech at April 30, 2009 09:03 PM (iafWn)

157 I've seen lots of photos of POW camps, Allied and Axis, I know men who were in the camps. Torture wasn't part of the deal.

In fact, The Germans were quite happy to torture resistance members, allied covert operatives, and uniformed Commandos. They didn't make it to Wehrmacht run camps.

How about not letting people hostile to your civilization into your country in the first place? You know, like they did back in WWI and WWII, when they had saner immigration laws?

Or we could lock up every Muslim, Arab, and South Asian we can find as the US and Canada did to American and Canadian citizens of Japanese decent.

If we're going to play the pseud game, might I suggest you read Pat Buchanan's book

Only if I were in the mood for bad, ahistorical, fiction.

As a matter of record they were vastly less murderous toward civilians, and more humane toward POWs

About three million Soviets taken prisoner by the Germans died in German Army custody. That's Army, not SS. A higher percentage of Soviets taken prisoner by the German Army, nearly 60%, died in camps than Western prisoners taken by the Japanese, about 30%. Mind you, that's better than the few dozen short 100% of Chinese prisoners murdered by the Japanese.

We delivered half of Europe to Stalin, and turned the other half into dickless socialists.

Still better than being ruled by the Nazis.

Posted by: dave aaa at April 30, 2009 09:39 PM (ZfPQi)

158
Ace, what the fuck kind of blog you running here? A conservative
can't say mildly conservative stuff without getting called a Nazi?
You're proud to run a blog like this? You're proud to have attracted
race hustling pissants?


Oh, it's just an LGF troll.

Go back to blowing Charles, ya twat.AL's nonsense is more the kind of thing someone who dislikes LGF might say.



Posted by: dave aaa at April 30, 2009 09:41 PM (ZfPQi)

159 Some differences between the Second World War and today:

German servicemen had certain protections under international law. German servicemen fighting the West were mostly honourable enemies fighting honourably most of the time (do note all the qualifications there, by the way). Common use of torture would have allowed the Germans to so the same to our people when they were captured, which they normally did not do. Torture would not have produced information useful enough from the comparatively low level people we captured to be worth the cost, at least once they left the immediate battlefield. There is some anecdotal evidence that some individuals did mistreat some prisoners immediately after capture in order to get highly time-sensitive intelligence and even in Western Europe, Axis prisoners sometimes didn't make it to a POW cage.

Al Qaeda and Taliban are not covered by the same protections of international law. They do not fight according to the established laws and customs of war. They normally torture to death any captives they take and had done so for years before the US started treated them as combatants rather than common criminals. The few people who have been waterboarded were highly senior people, comparable to getting Goering or Himmler. American servicemen who do not treat captives with excruciating correctness at the time of capture are often punished.

Posted by: dave aaa at April 30, 2009 09:47 PM (ZfPQi)

160 How do we get from me saying this:
We delivered half of Europe to Stalin, and turned the other half into
dickless socialists. We financed and equipped Stalin's slave army

to some typical warblog commenter "rebutting" me by saying this:
Let us ignore the Red Army used American supplied trucks and jeeps, so
much so the word Willys became part of the Russian language. And the
fact that the Russian RR system was keep operational by the delivery of
over 40,000 railway cars and 8,000 locomtives meant nothing...So tell us exactly what does a pre op tranny like you like to do when not extolling the wonders of Comrade Stalin?

How? How the fuck is it possible people are this stupid? It has to be an act.

And you wonder why I call you people a cancer on western civilization.
Or we could lock up every Muslim, Arab, and South Asian we can
find as the US and Canada did to American and Canadian citizens of
Japanese decent.

Now you're talking, I'd just deport them though. They all vote commie, so fuck em. They interred Germans too, at least in Canada in WWI. America, being a primarily German country, didn't.
Still better than being ruled by the Nazis.

Nope. Tyranny wise, Stalin was several levels above Hitler, it's not even close.
The few people who have been waterboarded were highly senior people, comparable to getting Goering or Himmler.

Why not just provide a list of known entities in the universe that aren't comparable, my mushy nihilist friend? It would be more convenient.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at April 30, 2009 10:24 PM (DJjeC)

161 my mushy nihilist friend?

Oh my, I've been insulted by a troll with gender identity issues.

Posted by: dave aaa at April 30, 2009 10:52 PM (ZfPQi)

162 Adrianna:

Dear comrade asshat did you not say we merely mopped up after the victorious Red Army? Oh poor baby, we get from this statement to the fact that the Red Army didn't exactly wipe out the Nazis alone asshat. They couldn't even supply their own troops moron but tell us again about the glorious Red Army. Such intelligence must not go unrecognized.
Indeed you are a cancer on humanity. Ignorance augmented by arrogance and a certainty in your own wisdom. Demonstrated by your incredibly dull and assinine comments whose breath taking stupity speak for themselves.

Yes you must be an act sinmce you cannot grasp that you are an uneducated twit who doesn't know zilch about anything.

You were requested to cite your undoubtedly impressive credentials and experience and we get what the Left usually does, vomitting nonsense and evading any evidence for its assertions. Young troll braying becomes you.

How stupid and ill educated? "Stalin was several levels below Hitler." Wow because Stalin killed several magnitudes more people than Hitler. Maybe the fact that Stalin systematically decimated more racial groups than Hitler could dream of is the basis of your contention. Are you aware that Russians were more likely to have been victims of Stalin than Hitler? Perhaps you said this because Stalin enslaved many more millions than Hitler? Such ignorance really is remarkable. Your ignorance is matched only by your moral compass.
Maybe you consider Hitler as worse than Stalin because Hitlerwas a vegetarianand hated smoking? That's it, that's why Hitler was truly evil right?
Its amazing that you parade your ignorance so proudly, sounding like Obama's teleprompter on crack. Is this the best a community college education in Canada can provide?
Keep posting. We need a pinata and most leftwingnut trolls provide ample targets. If you take the ignorance out of Adrianna she'll shrink to the size of a dog, if you take the malice out she'll shrink to the size of a cat, if you take the lies out of her she'll shrink to the size of Presidente Zero's brain.

Posted by: Honest Cloud at April 30, 2009 11:28 PM (0Qynq)

163 Honest Cloud at April 30, 2009 11:28 PM (0Qynq)"Stalin was several levels below Hitler."

If you must feed the troll, at least quote her correctly.

Posted by: dave aaa at April 30, 2009 11:36 PM (ZfPQi)

164
Posted by: Honest Cloud at April 30, 2009 11:28 PM (0Qynq)
I'm new here, what's the deal with this cat? I've picked up that he's queer as a french horn, but the stupidity - ah, I know what he's doing: In the Peter Pan gay community it is considered awesome argumentation to deliberately construe the exact opposite of what one's opponent is saying, just to be obnoxious and immature and flamboyant. I work with these people and know how they operate, unfortunately.
And they wonder why everybody hates them.

Posted by: Adriana Lima at May 01, 2009 12:32 AM (DJjeC)

165 AL:

You truly are stupid aren't you dullard. No wonder you are such a pinata.

You want fries with your order trannie?

Posted by: Honest Cloud at May 01, 2009 11:15 AM (0Qynq)

166 I had a boss who landed in southern France. During the Battle of the Bulge, the krauts decided to disrupt his company and infiltrated 100 SS thru their lines. They caught them between their lines and company HQ. The fight killed 97. Intelligence rode over to their prisoners and said we only need one for questioning. Blam. Blam. One left. Inteligence stripped him and tied him to the wire cutting bar on the hood of the jeep and drove off.
That's how we waged war against the worst at the time.

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What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat