1 "Didn't Need to Be Waterboarded"

"Need"? What is this "need"?  Do I "need" a TV in the bathroom?

2 Screw every terrorist loving piece of trash liberal.  Until they commit their sorry ass to the front line and get shot at they have nothing to say in how we win this war against terrorism.  These are not "man made disasters".  Sorry doesn't float any better than a turd in a punch bowl.

3 Personally, I want the FBI to horrified by waterboarding. They are law enforcement and most of their work is in the US on domestic crimes. They should never even be thinking about waterboarding and culturally should be horrified by it.

That said, the CIA exists for a very different reason and with very different people. Doing the dirty shit no one else can or should be allowed to is why they exist.

4 I still contest that if it being done to US Troops in SERE School, it's not torture..

5 BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

6 squeeze um like a lemon

7

Speaking as a certified MD^TM, this is the fastest recovery from a VD I've ever seen. 

Well done ace.

8

Just a way to keep you wingnuts occupied while I rob you blind and further bananaize the republic.

Reparations bitchz!1!!

 

9 Personally, I don't think the CIA can be held responsible if  Zippadee Zubayadah forgot the safe word. ¹

-

_{(1) The safe word being "Israel has the Right to Exist"}

10 Well, what about Gerald Posner's book which describes how the initial interrogation of Zubaydah worked.  Zubaydah starts talking and gives out, from memory, the phone numbers for three Saudi princes.  Two of them later die in freak accidents.
http://is.gd/um53

Posner writes that Zubaydah didn't start talking until two Saudi uniformed US Special Forces operatives were put in the room to question Zubaydah.

11 I guess Obama is trying out a scorched earth policy with regards to national security.
I wonder how well that will work out for him.

Hasn't worked out too well in the Treasury dept or Wall Street.

12 Zubaydah is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

13 Whenever they talk about how other methods probably would have given the same results I am always left wondering what other methods they can be thinking of.  I really doubt that step one for these guys was to waterboard them.  They were trying all these other methods and they weren't working apparently.  What they are proposing is the definition of insanity.  Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

14

At other times, the interrogators piped in deafening blasts of music by groups like the Red Hot Chili Peppers

I like pleasure spiked with pain and music is my aeroplane, it's my aeroplane.

15 The way I remember it, Zubaydah begged us to waterboard him.  He thoughtit would be fun.  He also asked us if we would taser his 'nads, but we refused.  I think that was some kinky thrill he was wanting.

16

My country has fallen into the control of politicians and bureaucrats, and their media toadies, who place their personal vanities over her safety.  As much as I hate them, "hate" pales in comparison to the contempt I feel for the fainthearted appeasers on "our side" who lack the personal courage to stand up to them.

If you aren't boycotting the MSM and the products and companies that pay for their lies, you aren't paying attention, or don't care.

17 The FBI's role is not to prevent crime, but to investigate and prosecute those who do. 

Doing what ever is necessary to prevent an event is not necessarily in the best interests of a good investigation that leads to a successful prosecution.  If the two can be accomplished together, then great.  When they are at odds, which is more important?

While patience might have worked, it also may have cost us a chunk of LA.  Remember the laptop kabuki dance.  The CIA had a nibble and they went after it, good job.  They learned the lesson of 9/11; it looks like the FBI and the Dems did not.

18

Posted by: WTF Capital Investments at April 24, 2009 02:56 PM (AHrTm)

Yeah, I noticed that too.  Sucks for them.  By the way, did you see the new Palace I just bought?  Financing it wasn't as tough as I thought it would be. 

 

 

19

There is an old lawyer joke that goes something like this:

 "My client is innocent, your honor, and has an airtight alibi, and even if the alibi isn't airtight, he wasn't even in town the night his wife was murdered, and even if he was in town the night his wife was murdered, he was insane."

(In other words, we plan to pursue multiple defense strategies and we're not even sure which way we're going on this one because he's guilty as sin.)

Sounds like FBI agent Soufan has heard that joke. 

20 sorry.. #4 was me..  Gosh darn sock puppet.

21

One time in college me and my girlfriend, who still lived at home with her parents, went out  partying and then went parking down by the railroad tracks and accidently fell asleep passed out naked in the front seat of my pickup from to much whiskey and didn't wake up until the next morning about sunrise. I told her mom and dad the whole story. About 10 years after we got married.

But that particular morning we made up some bullshit about slow service at Denny's. Sounds like to me that that's the type of info the FBI was getting and was satisfied with. If my father in law had have waterboarded me that morning, he wouldn't have had to wait 10+ years to get the truth out of me.

20/20 hindsight is a motherhumper, no?

22

Zubaydah and his interrogator were both sentient organs in our living Universe, so what's known by one is known by the other and is indeed known by all.

Good and evil, culpable and innocent -- these are meaningless concepts. The important thing is to know the Universe while also knowing that none of us can truly understand it.

Get it?

23 So Soufan interrogated Zubaydah from March to June, right?  And the waterboarding, sleep deprivation, cold spaghetti, and caterpillar calisthenics started in August, right?  So what happened in July?

"In Thailand, the new C.I.A. team concluded that under standard questioning Mr. Zubaydah was revealing only a small fraction of what he knew."

So apparently, Soufan's interrogation techniques sucked nads.  Couldn't get shit out of him if he was a sewer.  Any idea what we got out of him after CIA gave him the once over?  More.

24 As Jean points out, the FBI's experience is based on something that's already occurred.  If the FBI fucks up, 3000+ people don't all die at the same time.

25

"My client is innocent, your honor, and has an airtight alibi, and even if the alibi isn't airtight, he wasn't even in town the night his wife was murdered"

Uh, isn't being out of town the night of the murder an airtight alibi?

26 Well, I suppose to the average, sane democrat , plowing planes full of people into the trade center was a sane choice.  Soon I expect all of the hits on the USA by Al Qaeda to be just minor misunderstandings or misinterpretations of what actually happened and we can all MOVE ON!

27 Personally, I want the FBI to horrified by waterboarding. They are law enforcement and most of their work is in the US on domestic crimes.

I don't. The FBI has crowded out every other law enforcement agency on counterterrorism, so it's their bag now. I don't want a bunch of weeping willows tasked with hunting killers, foreign or domestic. I'm not saying the FBI should be waterboarding terrorists, but I don't want agents that faint at the thought of other people doing it.

28

Nitpicking J, 

Depends on what time he left town, cf. Simpson, O.J.

 

29 Why can't the Left acknowledge hard moral choices?

Why can't they just be honest and say that they don't care how many people die, they aren't going to do anything harsher than they do on Law and Order?

After all, those guys are caught within 40 minutes.

30 Uh, isn't being out of town the night of the murder an airtight alibi?

Not if they planted the bomb/snake/booby-trapped bidet before they left.

31

After what these animals have done to US citizens and soldiers over the last few years, I can't believe we're even having a discussion over this.

Remember how the networks used to sign off each night with the national anthem? We ought to require them to show - every day in prime time - the planes hitting the WTC, people jumping from the windows, and the video and audio of Nick Berg getting beheaded.  Just a little context.

32 This uncannily mirrors this season of 24 vis a vis the role of the FBI in interrogating terrorists.

These procedures are NOT for a "confession" but for intel which is then checked out.  I so wish that the Left would get that.

33

Posted by: AmishDude at April 24, 2009 03:10 PM (T0NGe)

For what it's worth, once the hordes of homicidal bomb planting veterans, tax protesters and border control advocates that Janet Napolitano warned us about start getting picked up by DHS, I'm sure the Left will become much more open to the idea of aggressive interogation.

 

34 Obama has to destroy America in order to save it.

35

Why can't the Left acknowledge hard moral choices?

Platittudes. Once it is no longer a platitude and becomes an exercise in logic, it is no longer grounded in idealism but in muddy truth. Also, there is an admission that people whom they disagree with have a point.

"Waterboarding never works." If they were to ever admit that it can, then it becomes a question of when it should be used. To save one life? To save ten? Three thousand? To prevent a nuclear attack?

Such complexities do not lend themselves to congratulatory self-back patting.

Semi-related: Hybrids that aren't immdiately recognizable as hybrids don't sell as well as those ugly ass ones that say at a distance: "That person cares."

 

36 These procedures are NOT for a "confession" but for intel which is then checked out.  I so wish that the Left would get that.

So true. They keep saying that torture doesn't 'work' and usually by work they mean a full and completely accurate confession. But interrogators are just looking to get any kind of information, especially details that can be checked against other sources. And psychologically once someone tells even a minor useful detail, it's much harder to avoid further talking. It's like pulling a thread - once you get the first one going, it's just a matter of time before the whole cloth unravels.

37 This whole "should we/shouldn't if innocent life is at stake" is so FREAKING STUPID. Even freaking HILLARY said it would depend on the circumstances.

Another 9/11 and I guarantee that MSNBC will instantly shut up about torturing terrorists.

Can we just acknowledge the reality that this is something that must be done, was done before Bush, will be done after Obama?

38 Semi-related: Hybrids that aren't immdiately recognizable as hybrids don't sell as well as those ugly ass ones that say at a distance: "That person cares."



Posted by: Lee at April 24, 2009 03:29 PM (TxTIh)

Hey, on the subject of Prius, I have to say: we own one, and it's GREAT. I don't give a flying crap about the environment... but the thing DOES get an honest 50 MPG in the summer, 45 winter up here in CT. Spacewise, the interior is solidly mid-sized: it's NOT a particularly small car.

And it's got a lot of cool factor: touch screen controls, push button ignition.

I don't believe in forcing anyone to buy one... but there's no denying it's a pretty good car.

39

Soufan's editorial should be read closely. I suggest most people on both sides of this issue are conveniently (but not necessarily deliberately) overlooking the word "magnifying" in that first sentence.

40

meant to put it in this thread:

let's throw so much crap at the wall that no one can see that the wall is about to crumble, and let's throw new crap out everyday so no one can fixate on any one thing.

"an outrage a day, keeps the GOP away"

and everyday we fall for it.

focus!

Carbon Tax and Nationalized Health Care, those are the issues that are being pushed in Congress right now, if you were about to do something you know everyone will hate, what do you do? you get them talking about something else, anything else to pull their attention away from what you're really doing.

Obama isn't a Genius, anyone can win when they make up the rules as they go along, we are the idiots who play along.

41

If we just sent in an interrogator who was more open minded and could create a dialogue.

And apologize for American arrogance.

Our problem is that we're just not willing to see the other point of view.

They wouldn't hate us so much if we didn't burn so much fossil fuel and listen to Britney Spears.

 

42

CoolCzech,

Your name has been struck from the Protected Rolls, hippy.

43

Posted by: Warden at April 24, 2009 03:44 PM (QoR4a)

Oh *Snap!*

44

Your name has been struck from the Protected Rolls, hippy.

Did somebody mention rolls?

45 Heh your head of torture told me that they were limited to using a bug to torture the man.  Why didn't you use your partial birth abortion methods on him.  Your courts have said this method is legal.

46 He should have been waterjetted.

47 Wahh! You wingnut torture apologists! You waterboarded some guy 200,000 times just for kicks, you Nazi commie fascists! Wahhhh!!

48 The problem we have with "torture" is that's it's been defined down by the libs and the MSM to mean "anything that causes what the detainee might consider discomfort or inconvenience."  Well, no.  Torture is taking a 1/4" drill and running it through someone's kneecap a few times, or clamping their arm between two 2x4s and applying a ball peen hammer until it's a tube of meat and bone chips.
The equate that sort of thing to cold rooms and yes, even waterboarding, is disingenuous in the extreme.  The fight needs to be over the definition first, or no intelligent decision will be made.

A number of police jurisdictions have begun to protect themselves (in a small way) from all the frivolous tazer lawsuits by requiring ever cop that carries a tazer to be zapped with it once a year as part of requalifications.  It really sucks the oxygen out of a lot of lawerly histrionics when the eeeevil cop can say on the stand, "I get tazed every year and it ain't all that bad."  I think requiring every interrogator who is qualified to use waterboarding to undergo it themselves at least once would have the same deflating effects on the current arguments.  And anyone who refuses to do that probably shouldn't be administering it, anyway.  We demand a lot of our soldiers (SERE training, as mentioned above) and I don't see why CIA interrogators should be held to a lower standard.

49 Olberwoman apparently wants Hannity to be waterboarded for charity.

50 Wahh! You wingnut torture apologists! You waterboarded some guy 200,000 times just for kicks, you Nazi commie fascists! Wahhhh!!

Posted by: Venus at April 24, 2009 04:47 PM (YmPwQ)

It wasn't just for kicks.  We were practicing for the Revolution.  See ya soon, sweettits.

51 Speaking of Carbon Tax, instead of waterboarding can we just put them into Carbon Freeze?

52 The inmates (lawyers) are running the asylum (gubamint)!

53

<i>Prius ... there's no denying it's a pretty good car.</i>

and pretty ugly.

54 Oops.

55

Do you guys know whats going on?Your Idiot In Chief is fast tracking nationalized Medicare-passing laws so that the Senate has no chance to fillabuster this upcoming obamination.Diversationary tactics to keep Americans occupied.Your socialism is on steroids.Its none of this 2 steps forward and 1 step back-the usual modus operandus of the socialists.I saw this stuff 40 years ago.I do care because it will affect my bottom line.Americans in the poor house does affect me monetarally.You guys will be so broke.Yesterday was the forgiving of the deadbeats on credit cards.Bread and circuses indeed.

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56 Yeah and now the Time Mag is piling on. I mean who are you gonna believe Cheney or the head FBI investigator ? And there is a BIG difference in pretend waterboarding and when it is being done by people who HATE you.

57 It's a shame we can't use little people to do a little passion play for the people, pulling the guts out of the worst of the these guys while still alive. They could ask Mel Gibson or Eli Roth to consult and help keep production value high.

58 Don't remember where I heard this but waterboarding is "torture!" because the perp actually believes that he is going to die! It's horrifying! and inhumane! because the perp actually believes he's going to die! So at what point, in a total of 180+ boards, does one begin to realize that I'm not going to actually die? That this really sucks and all, and maybe I better talk, but I'm not going to die?

Now the caterpillar? I'll give the Libs that...

59 Try putting him in a box with a Unicorn!

60 That might work. He'd get so sick to his tummy on the Gum drops the unicorn shat, he'd do anything to get out...

61

"...arguing that persuasion rather than coercion had succeeded..."

Yeah, like "pretty please" worked so well up until that point. 

62

Other debunkings of the ex-FBI's article include serious time-line disparities (he says 'a few months', the CIA says 'within days,' ....

 

IOW, since the NYTimes printed it, it ain't safe to believe it.

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The only bright spot in any of the Abu Griahb Ver 2.0 is that most Americans don't give a shit if we give some bomb chucker a little hydration therapy. The loudest ones are those who still have some hardon for Chimpy McHaliburton Nazi and are trying to relive their glory days of complete detachment from reality. Oh sure, there are many that will say to their Prius driving friends (sorry couldn't reisit) it's just terrible what we've done and how Europe thinks we're meanies, Thanks goodness Obama fixed that with the Jimmah Carter reunion tour!

Meanwhile most Americans are saying....What? That's all we did? Compared to lopping his head off or flying a plane into the building where his Mom works who gives a shit? God forbid if we get hit hard again because Chebama just opened himself up for a massive political problem.

 

65

Can we make the jihaddies spend a night with Barney Frank?  Now thats torture, the horror, the pain, the humiliation!

 

 

66

So, the cops can taser someone for merely being drunk and/or and disorderly, but the CIA can't waterboard a known murderous terrorist perp because that's "torture".

Heh.

And waterboarding's not necessary, eh?  Then where are the documents showing Al Qaeda hardcases singing like Susan Boyle w/o being subjected to "enhanced" techniques??

 

67 Those protesting about enhanced interrogation are most likely from "blue" cities that are also sanctuary cities. Odds are that the third wave will hit a "blue" city. At least I would if I were UBL. Ironic huh? Ergo, best move to a "red" city for your own safety. We are likely to soon find the nations intelligence capabilities to be about the same as they were on 9/10/2001.

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