Poll: 57% Want Military Response to North Korea Missile Capability

I'm not sure that I believe this poll, but:

Fifty-seven percent (57%) of U.S. voters nationwide favor a military response to eliminate North Korea’s missile launching capability. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that just 15% of voters oppose a military response while 28% are not sure.
The telephone survey was conducted Friday and Saturday, April 3-4, the two days immediately prior to North Korea’s launch. The question asked about a military response if North Korea actually did launch a long-range missile.
Overall, 75% of voters say they’ve been closely following news stories about the possible launch. That figure includes 40% who’ve followed the news Very Closely.

Would 57% favor a one-off strike on North Korea's known rocket facilities? Sure, I believe that and I'm surprised that number isn't larger.

What I don't believe is that 57% favor a more involved confrontation than a one-off strike. And I don't believe that Li'l Kim would fail to turn an attack on his rocket or nuclear facilities into a protracted engagement across the Korea DMZ. Just because we'd like him to do nothing in retaliation doesn't mean he will.

I'm also a little skeptical about the self-reported 75% of voters who think they have been "closely following" this story. That seems rather like a lot more than my own experience. Yes, anecdote is not data, but around my office--all professionals, all regular voters--I wouldn't bet two in ten knew anything about the launch. I think it's much more likely that when Rassmussen calls you up and asks, "Hey, have you heard", most people will say, "Yes, of course" just so they don't feel like ninnies.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 05:41 PM

Comments

1 I doubt they favor it strongly.

Posted by: toby928 at April 05, 2009 05:47 PM (PD1tk)

2 Escalation deterance. NK just has to be willing to take this farther than their enemies do.

Posted by: exception at April 05, 2009 05:52 PM (o5wq5)

3 But is there OIL on the Korean Peninsula!!!???!!!!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!

Whatever. Kim could walk up to Obama and give him a wedgie and Obama would just ask for another.

Posted by: fiatboomer at April 05, 2009 05:53 PM (wm2mQ)

4 Send in the fucking stealth bombers and kick their balls into their throats!

Posted by: Patton at April 05, 2009 06:00 PM (in8Vs)

5 Everyone would feel a lot better if we shot off a missile and randomly hit a baby food factory, an old folks home or an orphanage. Then the world would condemn the U.S. and the focus would be off the bad guys. Didn't you know that's the Democrat playbook?

Posted by: shibumi at April 05, 2009 06:02 PM (OKZrE)

6 Fooey. I seriously doubt that even the 57% who favor a military response really know what's happened over this past weekend. For that matter, isn't it kind of a moot point, since we all know that our very own Dear Leader wouldn't even consider such a thing???

Posted by: antisocialist at April 05, 2009 06:03 PM (zAlmc)

7 The time for a military response was when the rocket was flying or while it was still on the pad. It serves no purpose now, except to give Kim an excuse to stir up more shit and for everyone else to wag their fingers at us. These things have to be thought out several moves in advance. Obama hasn't even thought out the first move, and the public hasn't thought at all.

Posted by: lmg at April 05, 2009 06:04 PM (A/vgC)

8 Barry's version of a response will be to piss down the side of his leg and apologize for our fighting in the Korean War. Actually not only apologize but blame the US for starting the war and trying to destroy the socialist paradise of the North.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 05, 2009 06:05 PM (Fe532)

9 Speaking of polling

It's 77,225 apiece: Murphy, Tedisco now in a dead heat

Posted by: toby928 at April 05, 2009 06:06 PM (PD1tk)

10 When all else fails and Obama punts midfield, simple dial 911 at 3AM and ask for Newt, he will direct the non-magical Magic Negro to the right choice.

Posted by: Fish at April 05, 2009 06:10 PM (CG+cG)

I don't know why I keep saying, I don't know why but I am surprised. Wishful thinking perhaps? lmg (ACE?) has it spot on. What else can one say?

Posted by: 7HEAVENS at April 05, 2009 06:13 PM (L58/E)

12 The dang missile FAILED.

Thats at least 0-fer-3 for the Norks.

Let them continue to piss away bucks on bottle rockets while their people continue to eat grass soup.

There's a revolution hidden in there somewhere...

Posted by: TXMarko at April 05, 2009 06:14 PM (0PEJK)

13 We just took a poll and 57 percent feel that a strongly worded letter is overreacting to Kim's sincere wish to stimulate his economy through the space program.

Posted by: CNN Poll at April 05, 2009 06:15 PM (miw86)

14 Could someone tell me why a country with its people eating grass and pedalling 1952 Western Flyer bicycles is involved in a space program?

Posted by: kbdabear at April 05, 2009 06:18 PM (miw86)

15 Anytime I hear the word pole, my mouth just waters and waters!

Oh... poll. How disappointing.

Posted by: andros at April 05, 2009 06:18 PM (k39jK)

16 lmg (ACE?) has it spot on.

Thanks, but I'm just some guy. Blind pig and acorns, you know. I'm not ace.

Posted by: lmg at April 05, 2009 06:19 PM (A/vgC)

17 Or andros with his sharply-honed non-sequiturs.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at April 05, 2009 06:20 PM (wgLRl)

18 Those fuck's are starving for food and pop-culture. Drop a few plane load's of double cheeseburger's and Hustler magazines filled with buxom Aryan women spreading their cheek's and we'll take Norkland in hour's, not day's.

Posted by: Blazer at April 05, 2009 06:21 PM (+FzLa)

19 Guess it's a question of who is more likely to kill you: Kim Jong-il and his faulty bottle rockets, or your neighbor down the street with a closet full of guns and a pink slip in his pocket?

Or andros running into you with his hybrid trying to drive in Sunday traffic while trolling AoS, answering Axelrod's emails, and Twittering to Kos on his I-Phone.

Posted by: kbdabear at April 05, 2009 06:24 PM (miw86)

20 Easy on the comments, I inherited this mess.

Posted by: Premier Komrade Obama at April 05, 2009 06:25 PM (ewXBY)

21 They're launching the damn things over Japan. Let Japan take care of it.

They have ninjas, for fuck's sake.

Posted by: apotheosis at April 05, 2009 06:27 PM (xWk3U)

22 I say we fill up a jumbo jet with a huge load of shit and dump it on em.'

Posted by: mossback at April 05, 2009 06:28 PM (in8Vs)

23 @9

Translation: Murphy will win.

Posted by: Twinks at April 05, 2009 06:28 PM (+2eXr)

My unofficial poll:

87.5% of people who have absolutely nothing at risk in the question will favor a tough military posture; Of these, 75% will quote lines from Rambo or Die Hard;

97% of the blogosphere will shriek loudly at the President for being weak and spineless.

0.2% will offer a realistic alternative strategy.

Posted by: ChipD at April 05, 2009 06:29 PM (nWYl8)

25 Easy on the comments, I inherited this mess.

Hey, nothing like turning a minor shit-storm into a full blown cat 5 shit hurricane or a shit-asteroid. Everything a liberal touches turn's to even more shit.

Posted by: Blazer at April 05, 2009 06:31 PM (+FzLa)

26 8 Barry's version of a response will be to piss down the side of his leg and apologize for our fighting in the Korean War. Actually not only apologize but blame the US for starting the war and trying to destroy the socialist paradise of the North.

+1

Posted by: shibumi at April 05, 2009 06:31 PM (OKZrE)

27 I support sending andros to a pound him in the ass North Korean reeducation camp for a term of no less than life imprisonment.

Posted by: jaleach at April 05, 2009 06:32 PM (gHrZU)

28 Bomb 'em....I am a little on the grumpy side today. That nork missle was aimed at my house.

Posted by: HawaiiLwyr at April 05, 2009 06:35 PM (QNR6n)

29 Barry's version of a response will be to piss down the side of his leg and apologize for our fighting in the Korean War.
--shibumi

As soon as you read it, you realize that could really happen.

Posted by: sis at April 05, 2009 06:37 PM (hm0CN)

30 When troll erg stops posting, andros comes on. Every fucking day like they're on the clock. I wonder if andros smells erg's seat when he takes over the shift. Tell me andros, does Axelrod pay union scale? Does he give you 15 minutes twice a day for blowjob breaks?

Posted by: kbdabear at April 05, 2009 06:38 PM (miw86)

31 At first I was pissed that we didn't whack this droopy-dong missile or whatever they call it with a Tomahawk while it was still on the pad, and failing that, why we didn't take it out in flight.

But, just spitballing here...what if a conscious decision was made to let the launch vehicle run its course so we could gather intel on its performance and, by extension, the Norks' capabilities? Sure, the easy explanation is that Obama refused to "act unilaterally". But I can see a certain intel benefit in see what they could do.

Posted by: Eric at April 05, 2009 06:41 PM (quZLX)

And I don't believe that Li'l Kim would fail to turn an attack on his rocket or nuclear facilities into a protracted engagement across the Korea DMZ. Just because we'd like him to do nothing in retaliation doesn't mean he will.

Heh. Heh heh...HA HAA HA! Just let the Norks try a "protracted engagement" across the DMZ. They have no ability to project any power. Their massing at the border doesn't mean they can move past it.

Posted by: Ed at April 05, 2009 06:41 PM (OjcQM)

33 Guess it's a question of who is more likely to kill you: Kim Jong-il and his faulty bottle rockets, or your neighbor down the street with a closet full of guns and a pink slip in his pocket?

So you would support a military response to recent shootings? Or you, as usual, have no fucking clue what you're typing and any old lame nonsensical faux-snark bullshit will do?

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 05, 2009 06:42 PM (m0/NH)

34 Sometimes right hand doesn't know what I'm typing. The keyboard gets sticky too, that's why Mr Axelrod prefers Macs. Easier to wipe.

Posted by: andros left hand at April 05, 2009 06:46 PM (miw86)

35
Re: Murphy vs Tedisco

Who wants to bet Columbia County will be the last to tally their recount? They need to wait to see how many votes Murphy will need to steal the election.

Posted by: Darling, you know at April 05, 2009 06:48 PM (O3W8g)

36 34 Sometimes right hand doesn't know what I'm typing. The keyboard gets sticky too, that's why Mr Axelrod prefers Macs. Easier to wipe.
Posted by: andros left hand at April 05, 2009 06:46 PM

Don't blame me, asshole! I have to work the mouse too. What do you do when you're not typing? And stop wiping boogers on top of me after you pick.

Posted by: andros right hand at April 05, 2009 06:49 PM (miw86)

37 Guess it's a question of who is more likely to kill you: Kim Jong-il and his faulty bottle rockets, or your neighbor down the street with a closet full of guns and a pink slip in his pocket?

Neither to far away from Mr. Ronery and I'm not threatening Mr. Pink Slip's knows I've got a Closet full o' Guns of my own.

Posted by: sandbagger at April 05, 2009 06:50 PM (ECgIF)

38 Would someone please answer this?

How the fuck are we suppose to trust obama with our national security when he doesn't even know the proper protocol of exchanging gifts with other leaders of foreign nations?

If this guy keeps this up, he is going to get a lot of us killed.

This fucking asshole makes jimmy carter look like Atilla the Hun.

Thanks a lot, 52. Now go suck your own dicks.

Posted by: Ginger at April 05, 2009 06:50 PM (WMtvw)

39 It's not really up to us. It's up to the South Koreans and the Japanese. The South Koreans are strictly into the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" mode regarding their insane northern neighbors; which leaves Japan. I suspect that when -- not if, when -- the UN fails to do anything substantial about this, the Japanese will quietly begin to rearm.

People tend to forget this nowadays, but the Japanese were probably the fiercest and most formidable enemy the US has ever faced in combat. You might not think it from their fascination with furry toys, female robots, and tentacle porn, but there was a time when the Japanese were the terror of Asia. I don't think that spirit is entirely gone...which is probably what makes other Asian countries (notably China and the Koreas) more than a bit nervous. China and the Koreas suffered terribly under Japanese rule, and will go to great lengths to prevent the Japanese from asserting military might again.

Finally, I'm not sure what we can do absent an overt military strike against the Nork infrastructure. Sanctions won't do any good: the Norks don't import much except food, which they'll get from China because China will ignore the sanctions in any case. Political pressure won't work: the Norks already know everyone hates them, and they don't care. Threats don't work unless they're backed up by force, and the Norks know that South Korea will veto any military move against them. So: stalemate, which is exactly what the Norks want.

Posted by: Monty at April 05, 2009 06:51 PM (dCZbI)

40 Ummm, yeah. This 57% should have piped the fuck up about, oh, 48 hours ago. Too late.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs at April 05, 2009 06:52 PM (uOvAE)

41 36 34 Sometimes right hand doesn't know what I'm typing. The keyboard gets sticky too, that's why Mr Axelrod prefers Macs. Easier to wipe.
Posted by: andros left hand at April 05, 2009 06:46 PM

Don't blame me, asshole! I have to work the mouse too. What do you do when you're not typing? And stop wiping boogers on top of me after you pick.
Posted by: andros right hand at April 05, 2009 06:49 PM

Don't get me into this! You guys don't have to climb up erg's rectum on the shift changes.

Posted by: andros nose at April 05, 2009 06:53 PM (miw86)

42 Some twit has trotted out the meme that the missile "failed". it fell in the ocean, we are told. It kinda looked like it worked to me.

1st   duh1 was the one who failed. That missile could have been aimed at the US and he could have shot it down, and he did not. He failed us.

2nd   That missile could have been aimed at Japan. duh1 failed our ally.

3rd    The failure to check Kim Ill has now put all the Korean peoples at greater risk. duh1 failed them too.

When will he begin apologizing to all he failed?

Will he surrender us to the NorKs if they manage to drop a sandbag on Honolulu?

On a brighter note, can Ukraine be "shorted"? I need money.

Posted by: torabora at April 05, 2009 06:54 PM (VMsdt)

43 And stop wiping boogers on top of me after you pick.
Posted by: andros right hand at April 05, 2009 06:49 PM

He's wiping them on you? What gives, I'm hungry

Posted by: andros mouth at April 05, 2009 06:54 PM (miw86)

Oh, and if you morons haven't noticed: there are ZERO ads here at the HQ. No banner, no sidebars. Nada.

Hit Ace's tipjar, please... I'm about to.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs at April 05, 2009 06:55 PM (uOvAE)

45 He's wiping them on you? What gives, I'm hungry
Posted by: andros mouth at April 05, 2009 06:54 PM

I got a meal for ya right here pal!

Posted by: erg's dick at April 05, 2009 06:56 PM (miw86)

46 44

Oh, and if you morons haven't noticed: there are ZERO ads here at the HQ. No banner, no sidebars. Nada.

Hit Ace's tipjar, please... I'm about to.

I hope Ace isn't taking TARP funds now

Posted by: kbdabear at April 05, 2009 06:58 PM (miw86)

But, just spitballing here...what if a conscious decision was made to let the launch vehicle run its course so we could gather intel on its performance and, by extension, the Norks' capabilities?

Never attribute to genius that which can be explained by incmpetence.

Posted by: Steve L. at April 05, 2009 07:00 PM (hHGfC)

48 Hit Ace's tipjar, please... I'm about to.

Done and done. It was either break off a little bit for Ace, or send it to the good folks at ChicksWithDicks.com, and they've got enough of my money already....

Posted by: Monty at April 05, 2009 07:02 PM (dCZbI)

49 #42

Maybe this was a test fire for Iran? The Iranians had a delegation in NK, and isn't the Shehab-3 missile a knock-off of the "Long Dong"?

Posted by: mitthrawnurdo at April 05, 2009 07:03 PM (otlXg)

50 15 What an interesting juxtaposition of posts today.

Guess it's a question of who is more likely to kill you: Kim Jong-il and his faulty bottle rockets, or your neighbor down the street with a closet full of guns and a pink slip in his pocket?

Well of course you feel that way, you're too fucking stupid to distinguish between a rogue communist state with nuclear weapons and delivery systems, and law abiding citizens.

Posted by: UncleFacts at April 05, 2009 07:06 PM (M+Vfm)

Monty at April 05, 2009 06:51 PM (dCZbI)

I agree Monty and I don't think they will ever purposely try to expand except maybe in to SK. That's the only thing that they could afford to do as any thing beyond that would cost to much - they wouid need quick and decisive.

I caught your writing on the other post about Denver. Iused to live there as well. Remember IMI Jimi on 13th Ave. Any way I was friends with the owner who was brutally murdered at 8th and Corona then his wife was brutally beaten and almost murdered. Tom Holler was his name and his wife was able to recover and now lives a fairly normal life in CA. It was difinately bad back then.

Looks like ErikW kinda has a hard on for you - what's up with that?

Posted by: Roadking at April 05, 2009 07:08 PM (JpfXc)

52 Are we not within our rights to consider this an act of war? The missile was aimed at our territory and could reach it. You don't get a pass because the missile was a POS.

Decapitate that fucking zombie of a country and let China deal with it. Do we have to see Honolulu turned into a glow-in-the-dark parking lot before we figure out that we should can that Commie lump of shit?

Posted by: eman at April 05, 2009 07:10 PM (RkZLl)

53 Bah I would have only spent that 15 bucks on cheap vodka anyway.

Now Ace can spend that 15 bucks on cheap vodka.

at least someone's getting some cheap vodka.

Posted by: UncleFacts at April 05, 2009 07:10 PM (M+Vfm)

54 Ok. Just foomin' and gloomin'm here...

but...

Let's say yer a tinpot dictator and that you have a nukular-tipped missile or three ...and a boat big enuff to carry them...

...and that you wanted to send a message to the world and to the biggest and meanest kid on the block.

Would your targets be military or culturally and politically significant? ...or, would you just take out their electric grid and communications with an EMP strike at 5 miles AGL?

Just askin'.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at April 05, 2009 07:11 PM (g80kM)

55 Guess it's a question of who is more likely to kill you: Kim Jong-il and his faulty bottle rockets, or your neighbor down the street with a closet full of guns and a pink slip in his pocket?

This is a false comparison. The key is to be prepared to deal with both. The man down the street with a gun and a grudge is a hazard to few people; the man with a nuclear-tipped missile is a hazard to millions. The threats are not equal, so neither is my response. By conflating the two, you show yourself to be fundamentally unserious.

But we can take comfort from the fact that if the apocalypse does finally befall us, you will still be smugly congratulating yourself on your fairness when the nuclear blast tears you apart. I savor little after-the-fact victories like that -- they will make the afterlife so much more fulfilling.

Posted by: Monty at April 05, 2009 07:11 PM (dCZbI)

56 You need an H-Bomb to do an EMP strike.

Tin pots ain't got any.

Yet.

Posted by: eman at April 05, 2009 07:12 PM (RkZLl)

57 Never attribute to genius that which can be explained by incmpetence.

Posted by: Steve L. at April 05, 2009 07:00 PM (hHGfC)

True dat.

Posted by: Eric at April 05, 2009 07:13 PM (quZLX)

58 Looks like ErikW kinda has a hard on for you - what's up with that?

Perhaps he feels the love that dare not speak it's name. The passive-aggressive types are always so hard to read. Or maybe he ate a bad taco. It's hard to tell.

Posted by: Monty at April 05, 2009 07:14 PM (dCZbI)

59 I secretly dream at night of being taken by the big "O"

Posted by: andros' brain at April 05, 2009 07:15 PM (/i4dU)

60 59 I secretly dream at night of being taken by the big "O"

Overstock dot com?

Posted by: UncleFacts at April 05, 2009 07:16 PM (M+Vfm)

Or maybe he ate a bad taco. It's hard to tell.

Probably the case. I was just following along and all of the sudden...well you where there.

Do you think NK would use there weapons for agression ie move on SK for land and cash or do you think they are just using it as there #1 export to prop themselves up financially?

Posted by: Roadking at April 05, 2009 07:18 PM (JpfXc)

62 57%? I call bullshit. 57% of people know zero about the evil of NK; 7maybe 57% of the remaining 43%?

Wait a month, and Obama will be sending an iPod to th NorKs containing 1/2 Obama speeches, and 1/2 NorK dictator speeches...

Posted by: FloofyParisParamus at April 05, 2009 07:20 PM (SSEmf)

63 1/2 Obama speeches, and 1/2 NorK dictator speeches...

Other than the language, how could you tell the difference?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 05, 2009 07:21 PM (MlEgW)

64 Oh, and if you morons haven't noticed: there are ZERO ads here at the HQ. No banner, no sidebars. Nada.

Ace, the pharma companies that make anti-depressants--this site is the perfect place for such advertisements.

Posted by: FloofyParisParamus at April 05, 2009 07:22 PM (SSEmf)

65 Wait a month, and Obama will be sending an iPod to th NorKs containing 1/2 Obama speeches, and 1/2 NorK dictator speeches...

Maybe he'll send a Team America DVD as part of his strong response.

Posted by: lmg at April 05, 2009 07:23 PM (A/vgC)

66 Yay! Let's go to war with China!

--57%

Posted by: ingrid newkirk at April 05, 2009 07:23 PM (xyyHG)

67 I think you are all overlooking the obvious move from Obama in this case...........................

youtube video!!!1!1!1!1!1

Posted by: sears poncho at April 05, 2009 07:24 PM (Kai1h)

68 Yay! Let's go to war with China!

They'll cut off our clothing imports and our guys will have to fight naked like Spartans. Then Andi Sullivan would enlist. It would be bad.

Posted by: lmg at April 05, 2009 07:26 PM (A/vgC)

#32.

Ref projecting power. The Norks have about 10,000 pieces of tube arty and rocket launchers aimed at Seoul. Seoul, btw, is awfully close to a border for a capital city.

Given a rate of fire of six rounds per minute for ten minutes, that's 600,000 projes falling on Seoul in the first ten minutes. The rate of fire will slow down after that, so as to conserve barrels.

Many of these guns and launchers are in caves, can be hauled inside to hide.

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at April 05, 2009 07:27 PM (fxMuM)

70 Do you think NK would use there weapons for agression ie move on SK for land and cash or do you think they are just using it as there #1 export to prop themselves up financially?

It's strictly for export business. The Norks can barely feed themselves, and weapons sales are one of their only ways to raise hard cash. (The other two being drugs and counterfeiting.) They have almost nothing to lose by this, which makes them an attractive partner for regimes like Iran, Syria, etc. that do have something to lose. These countries can "outsource" their weapons development to North Korea, and lay off the risk: if things go bad, the Norks catch the heat; if things go well, the Norks will sell them the weapons at a discount.

I'm not sure the Norks have any real long-term plan beyond staying alive. They probably fear political collapse less than their neighbors do; collapse to the vast majority of the population means an improvement in their daily lives. But it means disaster for China and South Korea, which is probably why it won't happen anytime soon.

I've always suspected that if the situation got really dire in North Korea and the government was truly on the brink, the South Koreans and the Chinese would move heaven and earth to prop them up. As I said elsewhere: they really would rather the insane-asylum stay in business, with all the inmates tucked away inside.

Posted by: Monty at April 05, 2009 07:27 PM (dCZbI)

71 Ace of Spades Pioneers Who Slice Like F'n Hammers

Posted by: toby928 at April 05, 2009 07:30 PM (PD1tk)

72 Hmmm.

As someone born in South Korea and who probably has family, if they're still alive, in North Korea:

1. Kim Jong Il is one crazy-ass motherfucker who needs to be crucified.

2. The most effective method of combating the North Korean government is to airdrop handpowered radios. The survival radio types with a hand crank. This is because misinformation, a lack of truth and propaganda has instilled a cult of personality around Kim Jong Il. A source of information that bypasses the government's control would go a very very long way in undermining the government.

There is already one defector from North Korea doing this on his own dime doing this by using balloons. But a couple flights by B-2 bombers airdropping thousands of these things all over North Korea would cause civil havoc there.

3. Am the only one thinking this would be a -great- opportunity to test the USAF's airborne laser?

4. I really wish there was someone in the White House with some balls.

I've read some of the accounts of what has been going on in North Korea and it is literally hell on Earth.

Posted by: memomachine at April 05, 2009 07:31 PM (oNWAo)

73 The snark in me wanted to type that O will probably offer to unilaterally disarm if NK will promise to play nice. Or Kim must have missed the One's call for no more nukes.

However, this is getting too serious for snark. The liberal playbook is to gut the military capability of the US for a prolonged period and then put us in the position of having to do something serious because someone finally pushes him, not the country too far. It will always be about his ego and standing in the eyes of the world, regardless of the consequences to the rest of us.

On the Jimmah tangent...anyone want to guess how quietly O goes into the sunset once his reign of terror presidency is over?

Posted by: The Hammer at April 05, 2009 07:31 PM (YBTwf)

74 Was this the same 57% who wanted us to go to war with Iraq? Then when things went bad they wanted nothing more to do with Iraq? Are we talking about that 57%?

I fucking hate polls.

Posted by: Long Island at April 05, 2009 07:35 PM (1Y/7B)

75 What we are seeing is a snapshot of the post-Westphalian world. Nation-states are no longer the only global actors now. The North Korean regime is less a nation-state than a mafia-state or a warlord fiefdom. The same is true for places like Burma and much of sub-Saharan Africa. The lines on the map hardly mean anything: the borders are so porous as to be almost invisible. The real power-centers are tribes, interest-groups, factions within factions.

This has always been the case, of course, but only up to a point. In the old nation-state model, national armies and police forces were supreme arbiters and reinforced those map-lines. No longer.

Pretty soon (if not already) even well-heeled smaller groups will be able to develop a nuke. It's an engineering challenge, mainly, and in a globalized world there are plenty of ways to parallelize that kind of work. (Even uranium enrichment.) Launch an attack on an enemy inside another nation, and who can that nation attack in response? Nobody. It's not so much a multi-polar world as a world with no poles at all. It's gang warfare with nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons.

And corporations will not stand idly by. I know lefties love to rag on Blackwater, but think instead of the private armies of big petrochemical and ore companies. It won't be long before you see pitched battles between Chinese conglomerates and Russian oligarchs.

I think sometimes that we will look fondly back at the years of the Cold War as a time when the world made sense.

Posted by: Monty at April 05, 2009 07:37 PM (dCZbI)

Monty at April 05, 2009 07:27 PM (dCZbI)

I agree. My biggest fear is that the Iranians who where at the launch demo to purchase will finally get a good delivery system to reach Israel. They are the ones that are truly crazy and really have a evil plan they want to carry out. I don't think NK has a plan past one arms deal to the next (read pay check to pay check).

Thanks for your perspective.

Posted by: Roadking at April 05, 2009 07:38 PM (JpfXc)

77
>>they really would rather the insane-asylum stay in business, with all the inmates tucked away inside.

This sad excuse for a president means that in 5 years this country will be a giant Detroit.

Posted by: sickinmass at April 05, 2009 07:38 PM (/i4dU)

78 So is this what Biden was talking about?

Posted by: small town girl at April 05, 2009 07:42 PM (CvTXD)

79 Bah I would have only spent that 15 bucks on cheap vodka anyway.

15 buck's is cheap Vodka,...... man where do you live bigspender ?

Posted by: Blazer at April 05, 2009 07:44 PM (+FzLa)

80
Meanwhile those retrograde Christianist groups have been doing more real work on the ground than the whole damn bureaucratic leftist shitfest and their strongly worded letters can bring themselves to bullshit about doing.

Posted by: monkeyfan at April 05, 2009 07:48 PM (cEE8N)

81 My biggest fear is that the Iranians who where at the launch demo to purchase will finally get a good delivery system to reach Israel.

Iran dreams of empire. I suspect that their arsenal is (rhetorically) aimed as much at Saudi Arabia as it is at Israel. You have to understand the deep, deep animosity between the Shi'a and the Sunni, and between Persians and Arabs, to understand this. The Persians view Arabs as middle-Eastern versions of hillbillies, uncouth hicks who lucked on to the weath and influence they have. The Persians, on the other hand, come from a culture that is thousands of years old -- pre-Islamic, yes, but sophisticated and powerful in a way that the Arabs are not.

If Iran developes a nuke and a credible delivery-system, it could drive Saudi Arabia and Turkey to do the same: the Sunnis wouldn't want the heretic Shi'a to have the whip-hand over them.

And this is quite apart from the Israeli dynamic. I don't think Netanyahu will tolerate an Iranian nuke, but I don't see how he can credibly reduce Iran's nuclear program without America's help.

Posted by: Monty at April 05, 2009 07:54 PM (dCZbI)

82 Blazer, who says the 15 bucks was one bottle's worth?

Posted by: UncleFacts at April 05, 2009 08:18 PM (M+Vfm)

Come on people, go easy on the Null.

He's upset too ya know.

The Nork missile was supposed to provide cover for not releasing the birth certificate. Boom -- No more records in Hawaii.

Just when he was about to clear up the final hurdle for full release of the information.

Posted by: Mark E at April 05, 2009 08:33 PM (VnpYc)

84 In the end there will be only kratos

Posted by: chaos at April 05, 2009 08:34 PM (PD1tk)

Here's a new poll, assholes:

-68% of American males have NOT had their nuts removed.

-47% of American supporters of Michelle! Obama!! think the world would be a better place if American males HAD their nuts removed. Like her husband.

Faggots.

Obama is a:

CON. MAN.

Posted by: Obamaisaconman at April 05, 2009 08:38 PM (hxLGR)

86 Had we hit Kim's launch pad with a missile carrying conventional explosives, he'd a shit his pants. Especially if it were followed by a communique asking "Want another?".

Unfortunately we don't have a CIC with the balls to do it. He'd rather hear himself talk for the next 4 years AND ACCOMPLISH NOTHING.

Posted by: GarandFan at April 05, 2009 08:48 PM (x9n+V)

87 Blazer, who says the 15 bucks was one bottle's worth?

I dunno Uncle, jus sayin', fifteen buck's worth of potata whisky is at least a weekend's worth of fun or remorse, where I'm at.

Posted by: Blazer at April 05, 2009 09:07 PM (+FzLa)

88 Hmmm.

@ Monty

"And corporations will not stand idly by. I know lefties love to rag on Blackwater, but think instead of the private armies of big petrochemical and ore companies. It won't be long before you see pitched battles between Chinese conglomerates and Russian oligarchs."

Sorry but I disagree.

Any significant military or para-military force is expensive, difficult to assemble, maintain, transport or use.

But -terrorists- can be a viable alternative.

I've long wondered if there are people out there who use terrorism proactively. If I were to short the stock of GE and then a few weeks later a serious terrorist attack badly damaged or destroyed a major GE facility in India I could cash in like a bandit. Particularly if you do the transactions through several front companies.

Personally I see terrorism as potentially a viable means of exerting force for any number of different groups. And the best part is that jerkwads like the Taliban or AQ will try and publicly take credit for it.

People talk about the potential for revolution and such but I think long before any of that could possibly happen we'll see politically oriented groups employ terrorism and/or assassination as a means of manipulating the political process.

Consider this:

What if a couple Republican Senators in the US Senate were killed? What if these Senators were from states where the Governor was a Democrat? How valuable would that shift in the power structure be to some groups? Now what if you reversed it? Democrat Senators from states with Republican governors?

Too crazy? In a large part of the world one method of dealing with political foes is to kill them. And as crazy as things are becoming here in the USA I'm not putting the idea off limits. Oh I don't think conservatives would go that route. But I do think -Progressives- would go down that road.

Obama's economic policies will not work. The $1 trillion "stimulus" plan will not work. And the more money borrowed and printed the less confidence investors have in t-bills. At some point the economy will be as bad or worse, the 2010 or 2012 election cycle will be imminent and with huge potential losses for Democrats and with no way to borrow enough new trillions to fix anything.

Desperation can make people justify anything.

Posted by: memomachine at April 05, 2009 09:08 PM (oNWAo)

89 Any significant military or para-military force is expensive, difficult to assemble, maintain, transport or use.

In this as in so much else, technology has made major strides in making warmaking more lethal even as it becomes cheaper. Look at the massive changes the influx of the AK-47 and its derivatives have made around the world -- and that's just a rifle. UAVs, armored vehicles, short- and medium-range artillery: all can be had by the garden-variety millionaire these days, with ammo to service them.

A billionaire could afford one or two warships or a squadron of warplanes with pilots and technicians to service them. Biological and chemical weapons can be had by almost anyone -- private individuals can gin them up in a basement lab.

A security firm like Blackwater probably mounts a more able military than many small countries does. Russian companies like Lukoil and Gazprom employ legions of mercs, as do Chinese companies operating in Africa. And they're not terribly expensive to operate, in global terms.

Technology is a leveler, even if we don't particularly like the leveling that it does.

Posted by: Monty at April 05, 2009 09:17 PM (dCZbI)

90 87 Blazer, who says the 15 bucks was one bottle's worth?

I dunno Uncle, jus sayin', fifteen buck's worth of potata whisky is at least a weekend's worth of fun or remorse, where I'm at.

If you spend it right, that 15 bucks can buy a lifetime's worth of remorse.

Posted by: UncleFacts at April 05, 2009 09:23 PM (M+Vfm)

91 I suspect our anti-missile arrays were active in case of a misfire, but as another comment noted above, our military decided they had more to gain from seeing what the Norks could do with the Iranian help.

Given the history of Nork launch attempts, the risk of it hitting anything was very low. Now we know exactly where they are on the program.

Naturally, that they felt bold enough to do it in the first place is yet another failure of "Smart Diplomacy™", but at least we didn't give him a misspelled "Reset" button.

Posted by: Adjoran at April 05, 2009 09:30 PM (PbKS0)

92 This 55 year standoff should have been resolved in our favor oh...55 years ago.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at April 05, 2009 09:33 PM (ysoZG)

93 Hmmm.

@ Monty

Sorry but I still disagree.

The problem with a billionaire owning a warship or two is that a warship or two is useless in projecting force. To really project force you need an actual -navy-. You need supply ships, escorts for the supply ships, ports, docks and a host of other services that are necessary to keep a warship war-capable. And that doesn't even address the issue of a billionaire publicly owning a war-capable warship, which would cause quite a few questions to be asked.

In terms of ground forces you still have the same problems outlined above, but times 10. If you go the cheap route then you're hiring incompetents. If you go the expensive route then you're hiring very capable people who might have a far different agenda than you. See Machiavelli's "The Prince" for this.

Plus what do you do with a warship if you don't necessarily have a specific need for one or if the need has evaporated? You can't lease a warship unless you're a nation-state or a navy. And if you mothball it then you're not only tying up a significant chunk of cash in it but you'll have to pay even more to mothball it and then reactivate it at a later date.

And with ground forces it takes time to assemble, equip, train and transport the forces to the appropriate theater. And that doesn't even begin to address the issue of anti-mercenary laws and the fact that your mercenaries will be operating illegally on someone else's soil.

And plus if you are directly linked to a warship(s) or ground forces that conduct war on your behalf then you are personally liable for any damages inflicted by them in civil court. Not to mention criminal court.

...

Conventional forces and conventional operations can only be conducted by nation-states. But corporate backed industrial terrorism is a definite possibility as is terrorism conducted by ideological groups.

In fact quite a bit of terrorism conducted today in the US is the latter by environmental terrorists. It's when people stop attacking things and start targeting political leaders that we can be assured that the shit has really hit the fan.

Posted by: memomachine at April 05, 2009 09:50 PM (oNWAo)

Monty, you're a douchebag and your reliance on technology will be your downfall.

Posted by: ErikW at April 05, 2009 11:13 PM (hKtiw)

Looks like ErikW kinda has a hard on for you - what's up with that?

Perhaps he feels the love that dare not speak it's name. The passive-aggressive types are always so hard to read. Or maybe he ate a bad taco. It's hard to tell.

Or maybe you're a pussy.

Candy-ass cowards are hard to read too.

Posted by: ErikW at April 06, 2009 12:04 AM (hKtiw)

96 #75, Monty, some friends of mine and I are planning a corporate start-up in a few years aimed at just that market. Unless I'm busy with a second American Civil War, I plan on using my skill set to get paid.

Posted by: SGT Dan at April 06, 2009 12:06 AM (u2aRf)

97 A nice knock-off watch is fine when you want to impress a hobo-lady, but nothing is better than a ill-fitting lace wig. That and a little cheap potato whiskey: works every time.

Posted by: Dan Patterson at April 06, 2009 05:43 AM (dwSs2)

98 Who cares if 57% of people really believe what they claim to? It's close enough for a mandate to to vaporize some NK elite. Get at it before the people realize they are opposing a brutal totalitarian regime again and change their minds.

Posted by: Snake Oil Baron at April 06, 2009 07:27 AM (VZIVu)

99

Yanks accept no limits on their own behaviour but demand limits on everybody elese.

Can you say world champion h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e-s?

Posted by: Tom Dubya at April 06, 2009 07:38 AM (G4OgF)

100

Foaming at the mouth warmongering yanks?

Tell me something I don't know.

Posted by: Tom Dubya at April 06, 2009 07:52 AM (G4OgF)

101 Aww look a EuroTroll!!
Good to see ya, ya fuckin surrender monkey.
Hey, why dont ya give us a holla next time you need us warmongering yanks help. Ya know...lives, money, the stuff we usually hand out to the rest of the world for fucking free.
Fuck you pal.

Posted by: lowfibass at April 06, 2009 08:02 AM (T1ZAZ)

102

Foaming at the mouth warmongering yanks?

Tell me something I don't know.

Posted by: Tom Dubya at April 06, 2009 07:52 AM (G4OgF)

A limp wristed limey twat. All done breaking windows of businesses?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 06, 2009 08:20 AM (1Jaio)

103

Surely BO is on the right track. Only his ire is transcended by the lack of action by the UN in this matter.

Oh, I know BO will open dialogue with NKPR then send them food so Jong can build more rockets consigned to Iran.

BO should have shot down thatrocket we it reentered the atmosphere just to show North Korea that we could do it.

Posted by: Joe at April 06, 2009 12:06 PM (Zl2Qs)

104

Monty/memomachine:

Interesting thoughts. What I worry about is not big governments or corporations but "non-state actors". I guess that means I come down on the memomachine side. As time passes, weapons get older and older, and cheaper and cheaper. The price of effective anti-tank/anti-armor munitions keeps dropping, and rifle designs from 60 years ago (AK-47, FAL) still hold up remarkably well.

It probably wouldn't take millions of dollars for a cell composed of dedicated individuals to outfit themselves with rifles, anti-armor rockets, body armor and explosives, and attempt an assassination or attack on a "soft" target like a shopping mall. They couldn't shoot it out with the military and win, but they could outgun law enforcement for quite some time before enough reinforcements showed up. Likewise, I don't know about their chances against the Secret Service, but they might be able to overwhelm a Senator's security detail.

As technology gets cheaper, I think that it will make terrorism affordable before it makes private armies affordable. I also think we're entering a period where battles will go to the side that has more people willing to fight, which is something ominous if you're, say, western Europe.

Posted by: War Rocket Ajax at April 06, 2009 01:37 PM (8HaYL)

105 How are you. I really enjoyed it. You have done a great job. Help me! Please help find sites for: Blue hookless shower curtain. I found only this - cheap shower Curtains. Crafty reuse shower curtain liners crafting a green world. Remodel a bathroom for how to strip a bathtubremodel a bathroom for how to get rid of old grout on a bathtubremodel a bathroom for how to apply bathtub sealer avoid bubblesremodel a bathroom for how to clean a bathtubremodel a bathroom for how to make a shower curtain valenceremodel a bathroom for how to apply the proper amount of bathtub sealerremodel a bathroom for how to measure cut bathtub sealerjulian; porcelain fiberglass expertsbathroom renovation myth bathroom renovation myth. Best regards

, Cherlin from Zimbabwe.

Posted by: Cherlin at July 16, 2009 11:47 AM (KphxK)

Posted by: retailike111 at October 16, 2009 09:25 AM (VnGnq)

107 discounthair straighteners
ghd hair
chi hair straightener
ghd straighteners
chi straighteners
chi hair
chi hair iron
hair straighteners ghd
ghd hair straighteners
free shipping!

Posted by: hair straighteners at October 24, 2009 10:05 AM (9oMrs)

108 Discount Boots
Womens UGG
UGG Shoes
UGG Australia
UGG UK
UGG USA
discount ugg boots
cheap ugg boots

Posted by: fdsfds at October 27, 2009 08:37 AM (8kvkz)

Posted by: ugg boots at October 27, 2009 09:55 AM (pgfU2)

110 Your post very good,thanks for sharing!Are you also like these:ugg boots uk,buy ugg boots,australia ugg,cheap ugg boots,ugg boots,ugg boots sheepskin,womens ugg boots,ugg australia boots,cheap ugg boots

Posted by: australia ugg at October 27, 2009 12:06 PM (c6EK2)

111 buy Discount Boots
Womens UGG
UGG Shoes
UGG Australia
UGG UK
UGG USA
discount ugg boots
cheap ugg boots
air force 1 shoes
nike air force
air force 1 mens
air force 1 boots
air force onefrom usa

Posted by: airforceoneshop at November 03, 2009 02:26 PM (LHCCE)

112 Come to our website for shopping with high quality and best service! There have new products,MBT M. Walk
and MBT Lami,Welcome everybody to buy it.

Posted by: mbt shoes at November 08, 2009 08:53 AM (QhfLM)

Posted by: reviewups at November 10, 2009 02:02 AM (UHjri)

Posted by: ugg boots at November 12, 2009 01:52 AM (IeIJx)

115 nike dunk sb

Do anything needed to support an idea, a good idea usually brings good results, doing

business is like that.http://www.dunksky.com/.This site has always been on

Posted by: nike dunk sb at November 14, 2009 01:12 AM (APB+g)

116 buy [url=http://www.reviewups.com/]discount ugg shoes[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]cheap ugg shoes[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]cheap ugg[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/ugg-coquette-casual-shoes-c-22]ugg rainier[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]buy ugg[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]ugg usa[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]discount ugg boots[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/ugg-classic-short-c-1]ugg 5825[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]ugg shoes sale[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/ugg-sundance-c-5]ugg sundance[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]ugg shoes[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]cheap ugg boots[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/ugg-classic-tall-c-3]ugg 5815[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]ugg sale[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]ugg uk[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/ugg-knightsbridge-c-27]ugg knightsbridge[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]womens ugg boots[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]ugg boots[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/]ugg australia[/url]
[url=http://www.reviewups.com/ugg-classic-cardy-c-2]ugg 5819[/url]from usa

Posted by: cheap at November 14, 2009 04:47 AM (s7MB5)

Posted by: nike shoes at November 17, 2009 05:08 AM (DuP3Z)

Posted by: replica watches at November 17, 2009 06:04 AM (xpuiO)

Posted by: replica watches at November 17, 2009 11:35 AM (xpuiO)

Posted by: replica watches at November 18, 2009 01:04 AM (C/zDM)

Posted by: replica watches at November 18, 2009 04:59 AM (C/zDM)

122 UGG BOOTS

Posted by: UGG BOOTS at November 19, 2009 08:22 AM (n0jE1)

Processing 0.06, elapsed 0.0542 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0108 seconds, 131 records returned.
Page size 109 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.7 alpha.