1 Yawn. Stop posting gay shit.

2 OK, I'm confused.  Will this be an amendment to the amendment or a revision of the revision?

3 Ok... but what does this have to do with Newt, Steele, Rush, Allah, and Ace?

4 Yeah, good luck with that: now that the anti-8 crowd has shown themselves to be little more than petty thugs, I think that most Californians are going to thump them even worse next go 'round.

5 So, have the gay-marriage supporters managed to swing the popular vote in their favor? I'm not a Californian, but I would expect that the histrionics of the anti-Prop 8 forces would drive the numbers in the opposite direction of what they intended.....

6 3 Ok... but what does this have to do with Newt, Steele, Rush, Allah, and Ace?



Terrific

7 It is better to burn in hell than to marry

8 Well, they might have better results this year, when they don't have so many Obama voters showing up. A lot of people aren't particularly motivated to go to the polls for just this topic.

Of course, it could come back to bite them in the butt in 2010. It could just keep going back and forth, where the anti-SSM people being dominant during federal election years, and pro-SSM people dominating on the odd years. Might be better to work on building stronger public support.

9

There are bigger issues this country is facing than gay marriage.

But it seems that gay marriage is all that Gabriel and RAWMUSCLGLUTES can obsess about.

...

10

So, have the gay-marriage supporters managed to swing the popular vote in their favor? I'm not a Californian, but I would expect that the histrionics of the anti-Prop 8 forces would drive the numbers in the opposite direction of what they intended.....

Probably depends on the second act.  Whether people are truly opposed to government recognized same-sex unions or whether they're just opposed to having it called marriage.  And really putting it to the vote of the people is the proper way to go.  Of course there should be an argument of if prop 8 is upheld as an amendment, then do these count as revisions to the amendment requiring a higher level of support to pass?  Expect this question to never be addressed by their supporters.

It does demonstrate one facet of the liberal mind though.  When an issue doesn't go their way it must be continuously tried again and again.  When an issue goes their way they consider it settled forever and don't you dare try to change it.

11 #3 -- We mustn't challenge these. "It will alienate middle of the road voters."

12 Economics is the foundation of our freedom, not who we can screw. The gays have got it all mixed up.

13 5 So, have the gay-marriage supporters managed to swing the popular vote in their favor? I'm not a Californian, but I would expect that the histrionics of the anti-Prop 8 forces would drive the numbers in the opposite direction of what they intended.....

This. 


I think they feel that the Gestapo-like tactics they've used in persecuting Mormons and old women should be enough to swing a new election in their favor, as people will be cowed. 

I think they'll find instead that the measure will be soundly defeated because people are tired of hearing about it and want to give a middle finger to the militant anti-8 people.


At least they're bright enough to have figured out that picking fights with random black and Latino people over the Prop 8 vote was a *really* bad idea.

14 It does demonstrate one facet of the liberal mind though. When an issue doesn't go their way it must be continuously tried again and again. When an issue goes their way they consider it settled forever and don't you dare try to change it.

This sounds about right: shortly after I went off to college in the early 90s, the local school board of the town I graduated HS from decided that, even though the taxpayers had voted down various tax increases for things the school board insisted they needed, they kept putting them back up for a vote again and again and again (literally, four times) until, finally, they gave up because the voters were getting more and more agitated with each subsequent attempt. (Which is pretty much exactly what 'll happen here, especially after the thug-o-rama in the wake of Prop 8.)

15 Ok... but what does this have to do with Newt, Steele, Rush, Allah, and Ace?

Absolutely everything.

16 You know the second measure has more of a libertarian feel to it, and is basically what I proposed a couple years ago when discussing it with friends. Marriage, i.e., Holy Matrimony, is a religious rite and in todays America the government shouldn't be involved in religious rites. If we take the word "Marriage" out of the mix, along with the intrusion of Government into religion, then we are making some real progress. The one thing we need to maintain is the right of churches to NOT marry people. If the First Baptist Church of Podunk will only marry men and women from their congregation, the government should have nothing to say about it. Conversely for that couple to receive domestic partnership benefits from the government, they need to file a form to get it.

17

Don't you think you'd be happier writing for the shemales at Wonkette or the Gay Gossip Rag and Anti-Semitic Newsletter Called the Atlantic?

And what does your gaydar tell you about that hippie intellectual Rod Dreher? My guess is the cocksucker's muff he wears on his face is often put to practical use.

18 So does this mean that the anit-8 group claiming that prop 8 is an revision and not a new amendment (the claim that went before the California supreme court) are full of it?  Or do they have a wink and nod from the AG and Justices that their proposition isn't a revision but prop 8 is?

19 So is this an amendment to the revision or a revision to the amendment?

20 The second proposal listed doesn't get the government out of the marriage business...it just gives it a different name.  If the government were out of the marriage business the term 'marriage', 'domestic partner', 'whatever' wouldn't even appear in law.

21 Ok... but what does this have to do with Newt, Steele, Rush, Allah, and Ace?

They're trying to be the first Polygamous Pansy Political Pundit Party, a five-way marriage of conservative same-sex opinionators.  Hilarity ensues.

22 #21: Nice.  Awesome alliteration almost always amuses.

23 So, if we take out "marriage" and replace it with "domestic partnership," does that open the door to all kinds of unconventional relationships? Could one declare a "domestic partnership" with a close relative? Does there have to be a sexual component to a domestic partnership? Could a person have a "domestic partnership" with more than one other person.

And if two close relatives, or groups of 3, 5, or 9 people want to be domestically partnered, are not the same issues of "equality" raised? Does the state have any more right to deny a domestic partnership based on biological relationships or numbers than it has based on sex?

Seems the left's real agenda ... destroying marriage and the traditional family ... is working out pretty well.

24 I guess it never occurred to me that having someone's cock up your ass would require so much red tape.

25 @16 - you got it exactly right. Why the hell did I have to get a license from the G in order to get married to my wife? What the feck business is it of the G who I marry? Don't see the point of the government in marriage, and damn sure don't see them designating which marriage is "legal" or "illegal", all based on whether I throw $50 at them.

As to your point of the G forcing churches to marry couples that go against their ideology- i.e. Gay marriage...same thing applies. It is not the G's business who or what does or doesn't get married- leastways it shouldn't be.

But what do I know- I'm just some tax paying sap that never misses a mortgage payment. And I want those damn kids off my lawn!

26

"I guess it never occurred to me that having someone's cock up your ass would require so much red tape."

Gabriel's a lawyer so he can dispense with the briefs and get on with all the shitty details.

27 Gay, you'll get yours in the end!

28 Posted by: gay at March 10, 2009 09:27 AM (sftw8 )

Good grief.  Enough with the anti-Malor jihad.  It's beyond tiresome.

29

As to your point of the G forcing churches to marry couples that go against their ideology- i.e. Gay marriage...same thing applies. It is not the G's business who or what does or doesn't get married- leastways it shouldn't be.

That's my biggest problem with gay marriage.  I see it as progressives attempting to use it as an attack on religious institutions.  I see the best way to prevent that is to fully separate religious marriages, and legal marriages.  And one of those distinctions would be to remove the word marriage from government.  Protecting the churches from future attacks is what I see as most important.  Having two guys standing infront of a third while their friends and family watch them declare they will love no other asses but eachothers doesn't bother me.  Hell they can go do that now.  I just don't want to see someone try and figure out a way to require my church to perform the ceremony, and I do think that is "step 2" for a lot of the activist groups.

30 1. Is a straight forward repeal so that is fine as a Prop.

2. Is clearly a revision and should got through the legislature. There must be hundreds of places the word married appears in the state statues and all would have to be revised. What about California laws relating to people married out of state? They will still be married regardless of what California calls it.

Number 2 is a law suit waiting to happen.

31 I propose a measure that will allow these two measures to marry each other.

32 strick: OK, I'm confused.  Will this be an amendment to the amendment or a revision of the revision?

Perhaps it's an amendment to the revision, or maybe even a revision to the amendment.

33 I want to marry a castrated chimp.

34 Aaaaaaaaaaand I'm late to the party.  Sorry, Penfold.

35

"Good grief.  Enough with the anti-Malor jihad.  It's beyond tiresome."

Beyond tiresome! Good grief indeed!

We'll have to call this "Butter's Own Thread" before long.

36 Really there should be no legal marriages. Current contract law can satisfy all the requirements that current marriages give.

37

"Gay, you'll get yours in the end!"

Actually, in the beginning, it was Adam and Steve.

38 "Gay," it's pretty well known that people who gratuitously spout off, loudly and repeatedly, about how much they dislike gays and "gay shit," tend to be closet homos themselves. Are you overcompensating in order to hide something from us, and more importantly, from yourself? You should probably save it for the other boys down at the bus station men's room.

39

""Gay," it's pretty well known that people who gratuitously spout off, loudly and repeatedly, about how much they dislike gays and "gay shit," tend to be closet homos themselves. Are you overcompensating in order to hide something from us, and more importantly, from yourself? You should probably save it for the other boys down at the bus station men's room."

My secret life as Rod Dreher is coming to an end.

Rod, what a name.

40 "Gay," it's pretty well known that people who gratuitously spout off, loudly and repeatedly, about how much they dislike gays and "gay shit," tend to be closet homos themselves. Are you overcompensating in order to hide something from us, and more importantly, from yourself? You should probably save it for the other boys down at the bus station men's room.

Posted by: Alex at March 10, 2009 09:51 AM (v5ByM)

That's a complete load of bullshit and always has been. It's not well known, it's just well repeated. Are people who dislike smokers and fat people secretly desiring a cigarette and a twinkie?

41 Even gays must be tired of the gay agenda mob.

42 Conversely for that couple to receive domestic partnership benefits from the government, they need to file a form to get it.

Whatever it is called, what is the Government's compelling interest in relationships that do not materially benefit the public?  Marriage was brought under Government management to ensure a future generation of taxpayers and spearmen, control health risks (genetic diversity), and foster nuclear families for civic development.  That management includes the distribution of benefits to encourage civic behavior (ie. having kids).

If a relationship between two adults, or five adults, a tree, and one sad pony; does not benefit the public nor harm it then why is the Government involved?

43

Number 2 is a law suit waiting to happen.

Yeah because there are no lawsuits about gay marriage happening now or ever before.  So basically it would be same shit different day.

44

Supporters of the second initiative say they want to put the state out of the marriage business.

This is the approach I support. You ought to be able to choose your legal next-of-kin/economic partner, and it should (legally) have nothing to do with sexual relations.

45

That's a complete load of bullshit and always has been. It's not well known, it's just well repeated. Are people who dislike smokers and fat people secretly desiring a cigarette and a twinkie?

Twinkie!

46 Hate to break this to Gabe and his butt-buddies, but the truth is Gay Marriage is a joke, has always been a joke, and always will be a joke.

Even far left liberals know this. Did you see last week's Family Guy? Seth MacFarlane took a break from his stream-of-consciousness Bush-bashing to give us a story where Peter gets injected with a gay gene and turns gay. The rest of the episode mines the rich vein of gay stereotypes for humor, culminating in the gay gene wearing off in the midst of a homosexual 11-way involving Peter, his boyfriend Scott, and nine other stereotypical gay men.

Gay people will always be made fun of as long as they continue to relish their stereotypes. Gay marriage will similarly be ridiculed. Effeminate men are prancing jokes. Caricaturishly butch men in leather are strutting jokes. And deep down, we all know that butt-secks ain't natural. 

A piece of paper with a stamp with a stamp on it from a state bureaucracy isn't going to make you any more equal than you already are. And it isn't going to validate your life or your love either.  Only you can do that.

47 Sick of teh ghey crap...fuck 'em in the ass...............Oh wait!

48 And if they don't get want they want, they're gonna stomp their feet and throw a tantrum.

"You can't LEGISLATE respectability".  Which is what the whole thing boils down to.

49

And if they don't get want they want, they're gonna stomp their feet and throw a tantrum.

A sissy throws a hissy fit.

50 Fulsom Street Fair—coming to a neighborhood near you! Or should that be gheyborhood. Kalifornia, $42 billion in the butthole, and lovin' every minute of it.

51 And deep down, we all know that butt-secks ain't natural.

The entire European continent would apparently disagree.  Ever watched their porn?  Some Euros don't even seem to recognize the vagina exists; and if they do they assume it's just an auxiliary butthole, or botched navel, or something else impolite and unfortunate.

52

I think they'll find instead that the measure will be soundly defeated because people are tired of hearing about it and want to give a middle finger to the militant anti-8 people.

This has been one of the pojnts I have made for a long time.  The SSM proponents are going about this the wrong way.  By DEMANDING SSM, they are alienating a huge block of voters.  They are only prolonging the time it will take for them to get what they want through legitimate (i.e., at the ballot box) methods.  Every time they push, the opponents dig in even deeper.  This war will drag on for years and cost millions of lives.  Ultimately, the pro-SSM forces will get what they want through illegitimate (i.e., the courts) methods and the oppnents will never recognize it.

Society is ever-changing.  Things that are accepted today would have been vilified in the past.  The pro-SSM people should have just been patient and they would have gotten what they wanted and people would accept it.  However, that's not what they want.  They don't want acceptance.  They want to be up in people's faces about it.

53 Whether I agree with Gabe's perspective on gay marriage or not, I'm standing with Gabe in this thread.  There's no call to launch personal affronts toward the man. From time to time, derision with a point can make a good argument.  Derision without a point is just mean and abusive. 

54 Well that's fine, just don't turn your back on him.  Those gays are sneaky.

55 The commenter known as "Homer," "gay," etc: what is your fucking damage?

If you don't like a post, you are welcome to look at a different one, or better yet, visit another blog that conforms to your standards for FREE content WHICH YOU DO NOT PAY FOR.

Gabe's restraint towards jerks such as yourself is amazing.

In summation, take your slurs and little digs and go fuck yourself.

56 "gay", fuck off. Take your childish bullshit with you.

57

"You can't legislate . . ."

Yes, you can. Practical or not, right or wrong, regardless of whether it holds up to Constitutional standards, anything can be legislated.

58 COMPARE AND CONTRAST:

Cylons: have a plan.
Gays: have an agenda.

Cylons: can't reproduce, so they steal babies.
Gays: Ditto.

Cylons: frequently find themselves awakening in slimy bath-houses.
Gays: Ditto.

Cylons: can insulate themselves from reality by retreating to tangible visions of perfection in their imaginations.
Gays: have interior design centers.

Cylons: probably don't have souls.
Gays: well, Freddy Mercury could sing his ass off...so maybe.





jk gabe ilu.  in a manly way.

59 Posted by: gay at March 10, 2009 09:46 AM (sftw8 )

There are a lot of websites on the internet.

I'm sure you'll be welcome at one of them, but given how unpleasant you are, I can't make any guarantees.

60 Stupid gay jerks still trying to force their suck putrid lifestyles on us all I HOPE THEY LOSE BIG

61

Where do you send money for opposition to this shit?

And I want my name on the list so that if they want to come visit me, they can find me.  I am not the Mormon church that has to be nice if pushed. 

In Texas I won't face much harrassment, but may get a lot of admiration if I HAVE to defend myself or my property, or my dignity.

62 Suggested headline revisions:

GAY LOVE HEATS UP

or

GAY MARRIAGE:  GETTING STEAMIER

More tittilation and/or double entendres = more readers.

63 Euros don't even seem to recognize the vagina exists; and if they do they assume it's just an auxiliary butthole

They're the same way with radical Islam.

64 i'm all for getting the Gov. out of the marriage buiness, and the second alternative would accomplish that, if were a cali person i would support it, infortunately the prop 8 opponents have made such asses of themselves there may not be enough public support even for what i would call a fair comprise.

65 They're the same way with radical Islam.

Same root cause.  They're keen on embracing anything puckered and hairy that smells like shit.

66

I actually voted aginst Prop 8 because I didn't think it belonged in the state Constitution. However, this new measure #2 - HELL NO!

I will fight that shit tooth and nail with every time and extra minute I have to spare. Don't you dare try to reduce my marriage to a "domestic" anything because you didn't get your way.

Bunch of freakin' babies. You want to start some real shit in this state, you just try to pass that crap...

67 This reminds me of child custody hearings. They never are "final," unless one parent ends up dead or locked up for trying to make the other one die. Speaking of which, getting divorced ought to be outlawed (except in particular cases--like 24 words back), before trying to tackle even more fucked up forms of "marriage."

BTW, hey "gay", go moby some other thread. Like at FreeRepubic or DeadState.

68

I only care insofar as this was a slap in the face of some people's deeply held religious beliefs, then an attempt by self appointed elites to get their way through the courts after the public had already opined on the issue.

I'm not a Californian, so my opinion doesn't matter here, but I'm open to reason, not intimidation.  There's probably a compromise to be had, but #52 Steve L has stated clearly why we won't have it. 

Put me down on the "stop picking on Gabe" side of the issue as well.  He's never done anything but be an honest advocate for his position.  I don't like being associated with people who toss retarded insults from the anonymity of the net.  Insults are an admission that you haven't the brains to win an argument. 

 

69 #68 by MarkD

What he said.

70

There is some seriously stereotypical stone age shit going on here, and I say that as the guy who deliberately used words like octaroon and niggardly on an Obama thread.

I say "NO" to gay marriage, "NO, but that is not the hill I wish to die on" to gay civil unions, but I see no reason to gratuitously insult Gabe, who seems to me to be a standup guy.

 

 

71 Deleted.

Hope you enjoyed writing that, 'yomomma,' because it was your swan song. Goodbye. -Moderator

72 "Gay," it's pretty well known that people who gratuitously spout off, loudly and repeatedly, about how much they dislike gays and "gay shit," tend to be closet homos themselves. Are you overcompensating in order to hide something from us, and more importantly, from yourself? You should probably save it for the other boys down at the bus station men's room.

Oh yeah? Well, if I'm GAY, then how come I work out so much?

73 Whether I agree with Gabe's perspective on gay marriage or not, I'm standing with Gabe in this thread.  There's no call to launch personal affronts toward the man. From time to time, derision with a point can make a good argument.  Derision without a point is just mean and abusive.

I am against same-sex marriage.  But I pretty much agree with your sentiments.  The stupid comments on this thread make me not want to jump in at all. 

The first thing that the traditional marriage movement needs to do is teach people like the commenter "gay" to shut the fuck up.  Gay, just to let you know, your stupid fucking comments in this thread do more to help the same-sex marriage movement than any protest could.

74 ^{38 "Gay," it's pretty well known that people who gratuitously spout off, loudly and repeatedly, about how much they dislike gays and "gay shit," tend to be closet homos themselves. Are you overcompensating in order to hide something from us, and more importantly, from yourself? You should probably save it for the other boys down at the bus station men's room.
Posted by: Alex}

It's pretty well known that, despite the Gospel of Alex, it's an old gay agenda shibboleth that if you don't kowtow to whatever gay whim du jour is hip at the moment, and express your opinion, you are branded a "H8R" and, of course, secretly gay, therefore unworthy of respect by authentic, genuine, true-believer "out-of-the-closet" gunsels.

75 Get the state the hell out of the marriage business.
Marriage is a religious institution and who the fuck wants to be institutionalized!!

76 <sup>71 Deleted.

Hope you enjoyed writing that, 'yomomma,' because it was your swan song. Goodbye.
Posted by: yomomma</sup>

is that a comment left by the thread moderator cleaning up after a spill?

77 You know, gay marriage supporters need to knock it the fuck off. You had our tolerance, but that wasn't good enough for you. Now you demand acceptance, and you demand that marriage, even for straights, shouldn't be called marriage anymore, but "domestic partnership."

I was content to live and let live, but you can't just leave it alone. I didn't want to peep in your bedrooms and don't want you peeping in mine.

Well, except for those occasions when I need someone to hold the video camera, but that's really not the same thing.

I don't care where you stick it or lick it. Get the fuck out of my face with your childish demands that everyone recognize your lifestyle as valid.

If you want to give your partner unlimited rights to participate in your legal and economic affairs, execute a general power of attorney. Want them making the decision to pull the plug? Execute a living will? Want to leave them everything? Write a will.

I'm fresh out of sympathy for you totalitarian pricks.

78 What my sockpuppet said.

79 Well, I guess eventually if they keep trying they might get gay marriage through, but they're certainly swimming against the clear and repeatedly stated tide of voters' will. And here's a secret the Democratic Party doesn't want to admit: most Hispanics are not friendly to homosexuals or homosexuality.

80

Supporters of the second initiative say they want to put the state out of the marriage business.

Remember when supporters of gay marriage said the movement was no threat to conventional marriage?

81

Supporters of the second initiative say they want to put the state out of the marriage business.

Fuck California. I'm getting really tired of this shit. I'm moving.

82 Just a response to the idea of outlawing divorce:  No, thank you.  If divorce was outlawed, I'd be stuck with a jackass section of family.

83 Open letter to homosexuals....Shut up......
I don't continually bore you with my hetrosexual exploits....You are pathetic and boring by continuing to elevate bodily functions to public discourse.  Life is short, not interested in bodily functions, unless they are mine.

84 People tell me I'm an asshole when I suggest that something toxic has taken over a large percentage of Ace's readership in recent months...and to be fair, I said it in an asshole way, so hey no harm no foul, right?

But then I look at some of the posters in this thread, clearly using pseudonyms and IP masking to cover for their homophobic anti-Gabriel rants.   And I think I haven't been harsh enough those idiots.

For the record (and even though nobody will bother responding to this part), an amendment to overturn Prop 8 will almost certainly pass if it's on the ballot in 2010.  Prop 8 only passed in the first place because of massive Obama-inspired minority turnout.  Non-minorities voted Prop 8 down quite decisively, IIRC.  This is California after all.  So given that Prop 8 is almost certainly electorally toast, I heavily favor it being toasted by the second proposed amendment, rather than the first.

85 69

What he said.

I'm missing the point of the Gabe slams..kinda going over my head.
I just never got personal criticisms of people who take the trouble to offer sites for the exchange of ideas and opinions.....never got that. Don't like the topic...don't comment.
That said, my post stating "tired of the gay..." etc, was just so I could throw in the ass thing...Yeah..I'm that lame.

86 Iggey, I think some people are reacting to the tone of the last few days.  This blog has been consumed with how Ace thinks Rush Limbaugh should be criticized (and anyone who disagrees is a cultist), and now, when we break away from all that for some good old-fashioned same-sex marriage advocacy, some start to wonder if they got the Ace of Spades HQ URL right.

Now, I'm not excusing the obnoxiousness of some of the comments, here, but I think that might explain some of the hostility.  Or maybe some people are just dicks.  I dunno.  Just guessing.

87 There's any number of issues that, as a good secular conservative who believes that in the absence of clear societal consensus on an issue it's government's role to stand aside and do only the minimum necessary to preserve public safety, I'd like to see just go away.

This is one of them. 

Gay marriage?  Don't like the term, but I can live with the institution.

Climate change?  Of course, all the time.  Ain't got no sunspots these days, it's gonna be a good few years for my daughter to learn to ski.  But if you mean anthropogenic global warming you'll have to start over proving it without James Hansen's faked numbers, and if you intend to use it to force carbon taxes up our backsides I'd sooner see you contributing to the Earth's biomass.

Abortion?  Roe v Wade is bad law not for what it is but for how it was done.  Abortion is an evil, but it's a lesser evil than the exertion of Federal power necessary to ban it.

Guns?  The hardware doesn't bother me, but the 'gun culture' sometimes does.  Bothers me when I walk into a supermarket and find more gun publications on the magazine rack than car magazines, or business/finance magazines, etc.  Does that mean I think we should ban 'em?  Hell no, start training everyone to shoot by age eight so that they're bored with it by the time they're a teenager.
 

88
40 "Gay," it's pretty well known that people who gratuitously spout off, loudly and repeatedly, about how much they dislike gays and "gay shit," tend to be closet homos themselves. Are you overcompensating in order to hide something from us, and more importantly, from yourself? You should probably save it for the other boys down at the bus station men's room.

Posted by: Alex at March 10, 2009 09:51 AM (v5ByM)

That's a complete load of bullshit and always has been. It's not well known, it's just well repeated. Are people who dislike smokers and fat people secretly desiring a cigarette and a twinkie?

Yep.  Total urban myth style bullshit.  Just like guys who drive sports cars ( of any kind of car that's "cool" ) has a small dick.  If that's true then you're telling me every guy driving a piece of crap Yugo is hung like a moose.  Doubtful.

89

The degrading insults hurled, for no legitimate reason, at Gabriel provide evidence that some people are against prop 8 because they have an emotional need to create an 'underclass' of people whom they feel are 'less than' and therefore magically - they believe themselves elevated somehow. I know, I know, it doesn't make sense that crawling into the gutter by insulting people with loathesome commentary for no reason allows some people to feel...uh...better about themselves...but 'Gay' and 'Homer' are here to help make that point aren't they?

I don't have cable and don't watch TV so I wandered into the prop 8 territory unaware of how much the measure meant to gay people. I have gay friends who have introduced their spouses to me and I understood what they meant and henceforth considered that person of the same sex to be that other person's spouse. I know some gay couples who have been together 20 years or more and I never knew, they never told me, that they felt their marriages were not ...what is the word...sufficient? Not ...enough? I don't know - not recognized by the state? I sincerely thought that they were as comfortable in their status as married persons as anyone else. Until prop 8. Then unimaginable rage came out, old women were tormented, donors were unethically harrassed and villified. I was appalled. A gay friend emailed me in anguish and I was appalled that I had not known how much it meant to him - I had voted for it - and he assumed (good heart that he has) that I had voted against it because he knows how much he means to me. He assumed I knew what it meant to him - and I really don't know why I didn't. But from the time I read prop 8 - I thought it was about 'Can Californias vote on things like this and have their will carried out as voters' and I thought, yes they can. Then all the pain in my friends lives, and then all the thugish hatred on the side of gay activists warning us 'no more Mr. Nice gay.' And I remember thinking, you mean your demeanor all these years was an act available only to those who go along with you???? And then I remembered, long ago, reading a book review and I think the book title was 'A Place at the Table' wherein the writer, a gay activist, admitted that the desire for SSM was really about destroying heterosexual marriage because we just should not be allowed to have it. This and other gay movement statements over the years about heterosexuals and christians (I am a christian) all come together in my mind - there is too much evidence out there that gays are largely and virulently anti-christian and they won't rest until I am abused for my faith. They won't rest until heterosexuals are stripped of marriage. I don't think this applies to all gays - my friends know I am Christian and I feel like they kinda worry about that sometimes - like maybe they think I'll 'turn on them' - but I never feel that they want to destroy my faith etc. But WAY too many of the vocal, active gay element ARE determined to have their way, and their way eliminates heterosexual marriage and christian faith.

90 What a bunch of idiots. Both Amendments suck.

The first one sucks because what it does is restore an illegitimate CA SC ruling (the ruling creating a "right" to SSM). What they should have done was replaced Section 7.5 with "the sex of the two people getting married is not relvant." This would clearly place SSM into the CA Constitution, rather than having it added by dishonest "justices".

The second one is going to lose 2 - 1. It's a straight out assault on marriage, which is a charge that the SSM lobby has repeatedly denied.

91 86

Probably right, I just kinda missed the whole shot.

92 So given that Prop 8 is almost certainly electorally toast

That's like saying "given that the Zimbabwe military is almost certainly superior to the US..."

Sure, if you presume an absurdity with no rational basis, you can conclude pretty much anything you want.

93 Thanks for posting this, Gabe -- although both initiatives strike me as pretty stupid on a practical level, the second one is at least interesting in a thought-experiment sort of way, and I wouldn't have heard of it if you hadn't put up this post.

94
89

The degrading insults hurled, for no legitimate reason, at Gabriel provide evidence that some people are against prop 8 because they have an emotional need to create an 'underclass' of people whom they feel are 'less than' and therefore magically - they believe themselves elevated somehow. I know, I know, it doesn't make sense that crawling into the gutter by insulting people with loathesome commentary for no reason allows some people to feel...uh...better about themselves...but 'Gay' and 'Homer' are here to help make that point aren't they?

I don't have cable and don't watch TV so I wandered into the prop 8 territory unaware of how much the measure meant to gay people. I have gay friends who have introduced their spouses to me and I understood what they meant and henceforth considered that person of the same sex to be that other person's spouse. I know some gay couples who have been together 20 years or more and I never knew, they never told me, that they felt their marriages were not ...what is the word...sufficient? Not ...enough? I don't know - not recognized by the state? I sincerely thought that they were as comfortable in their status as married persons as anyone else. Until prop 8. Then unimaginable rage came out, old women were tormented, donors were unethically harrassed and villified. I was appalled. A gay friend emailed me in anguish and I was appalled that I had not known how much it meant to him - I had voted for it - and he assumed (good heart that he has) that I had voted against it because he knows how much he means to me. He assumed I knew what it meant to him - and I really don't know why I didn't. But from the time I read prop 8 - I thought it was about 'Can Californias vote on things like this and have their will carried out as voters' and I thought, yes they can. Then all the pain in my friends lives, and then all the thugish hatred on the side of gay activists warning us 'no more Mr. Nice gay.' And I remember thinking, you mean your demeanor all these years was an act available only to those who go along with you???? And then I remembered, long ago, reading a book review and I think the book title was 'A Place at the Table' wherein the writer, a gay activist, admitted that the desire for SSM was really about destroying heterosexual marriage because we just should not be allowed to have it. This and other gay movement statements over the years about heterosexuals and christians (I am a christian) all come together in my mind - there is too much evidence out there that gays are largely and virulently anti-christian and they won't rest until I am abused for my faith. They won't rest until heterosexuals are stripped of marriage. I don't think this applies to all gays - my friends know I am Christian and I feel like they kinda worry about that sometimes - like maybe they think I'll 'turn on them' - but I never feel that they want to destroy my faith etc. But WAY too many of the vocal, active gay element ARE determined to have their way, and their way eliminates heterosexual marriage and christian faith.

Posted by: ransomnote at March 10, 2009 01:38 PM (SI17F)

Or maybe people are just tired of teh ghey being thrown about all the time.  Gabe's actually throttled back a bit on all of that lately, so I won't flog him for it.

I hope these props go the distance and get on the ballot, but only so the No on 8 people have to spend a shit-load of money on them before they're defeated by the citizens of California. 

Again.

95

700,000  votes No Problem, call in ACORN work out the price, "wham" 1,000,000+ end of story.

Is Mickey Mouse registered in California or Florida, who cares that's two(2) votes!

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