1 TRAITOR.

2 so....is this the last word?

3 Meh.  I don't get Gingrich anymore.

4 I posted this last thread but figured it was more appropriate here.  See bottom of this Wash Times piece...sadly, Dean is right about keeping these disputes behind closed doors as opposed to a public display of intraparty war.


OT - Dean rubbing it in -- Wash. Times:

Asked during an interview Monday with The Washington Times if the Limbaugh situation was getting too much play from the Democrats, Mr. Dean laughed and responded: "Of course it is."

"You expect people to have fun, and it was fun, but enough is enough," he said. "The reason it's fun is because it's true."

The conservative radio host has been a top headline for more than a week after first being scolded for sharply criticizing President Obama and saying he wants the Democrat to "fail."

Democratic activist groups and official Congressional fundraisers seized on the remark — and pushed the idea that Mr. Limbaugh is the true leader of the Republican party.

That was only furthered when Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele first dismissed Mr. Limbaugh as "entertainment" who offers "ugly" comments. After being excoriated by the radio titan, Mr. Steele apologized.

Mr. Dean told The Times it was "an embarrassment" and "ridiculous" that Mr. Steele felt he had to apologize to Mr. Limbaugh.

He said he can't blame Mr. Steele, adding as the leader of the Republicans he shouldn't have to apologize for pointing out the party's sorry shape.

He said the inner-party squabble "reminds me of what happened when I got here," though disputes he had with entrenched party leaders were kept private "instead of a public fight with a very prominent figure."

The comments came as Americans United for Change released a new television ad mocking Republicans who said "No," to Mr. Obama's economic stimulus plan

5 I urged, from the beginning, for Rush and his supporters to allow space for people actually in elective politics to distance themselves from his comment, because, well, you know, they need votes and stuff.

If Newt's out of the club now, whatever.

I'm missing something. Newt calls Rush irrational yesterday, but it's Rush and his supporters who are not letting things cool down (is that what you mean by "allowing space"?).

Wouldn't it have been simpler if Newt and the others had simply called out the MSM for being Rahm's lapdogs and continuing this distraction while serious issues are being ignored?

6 they need votes and stuff.

Oh...is that why Newt jumped on the global warming bandwagon?

Screw that.

7 I hope Newt fails (in his tag-teaming with Pelosi wrt global cooling warming climate change).

8 I've always like Newt really--but I like Rush too.

What the hell?  Why can't we just come together and squash the Dems in 2010?  All of this inter-fighting is REALLY bad.

9 Sigh. So stupid, this whole thing. So very stupid and unproductive.

It reminds me of the "to-blame-or-not-to-blame-Palin-for-the-GOP's-problems" post-election postmortem.

Did that accomplish anything, BTW?

10 If Newt's out of the club now -- insufficiently conservative or combatative --

I think calling someone "irrational" is plenty combative.

11

For supposed brainiacs, Newt and Limbaugh have been sucked by the asshole Dems big time.

12 7 I hope Newt fails (in his tag-teaming with Pelosi wrt global cooling warming climate change).

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 09, 2009 07:25 PM (swuwV)

I think that Newt tag teaming Pelosi with Rush would be a good way to enhance bipartisanship.

13 Ace, why do you keep buying Obama's and the mainstream media's characterization of what Rush Limbaugh said? By the way, I'm not a Rush fan -- don't listen to his show, rarely pay attention to anything he or his supporters say. I think that I have to say that lest I be tarred with the brush of "Rush cultist" or whatever.

As for Newt Gingrich, I don't like him, never did. I don't care what he thinks about things.

14 I think calling someone "irrational" is plenty combative.

Maybe he was just misinterpreted.

15 Second to the last word ?

16 All you need to understand Newt Gingrich:

1.  Right after Hurricane Katrina, he was on TV trashing Bush's response and said that what Bush needed to do was get a "Marshall Plan" for the Gulf Coast through Congress.  (You know, a big amount of money to get their economy on its feet.)

2.  One year later, he was on Fox again trashing the corruption and fraud in the help sent to New Orleans, and said "this is what happens when government tries to do what should be left to the private sector."

I damn near through a book through the TV screen.   There is no explanation for his 180 on this subject except for the opportunity to get on TV and criticize, which he is doing again.  Let's not forget that he also said at CPAC that the era of Reagan was over, blah, blah, blah.   He also is fond of palling up with people like Nancy Pelosi on some issues to prove he is "bipartisan".  

Fooey on him!   I know an opportunist when I see one.

17 >>I'm missing something. Newt calls Rush irrational yesterday, but it's Rush and his supporters who are not letting things cool down (is that what you mean by "allowing space"?).

No, no, no. You are missing the larger point. It doesn't matter if Axelrod has admitted to twisting Limbaugh's words to make him and Republicans look bad. It doesn't matter if Newt took off after Limbaugh. It doesn't matter if Obama's numbers are sinking and Rush's are rising.

It only matters that we don't fight back because if we prove we are cowards then some people might vote for Republicans. Or something.

18 Newt isn't running for anything (as far as I know) so he doesn't need to cultivate support among sound-bite voters.  Also, Newt is in largely the same boat as Rush as to how they are viewed by most independents; who better to defend Rush?
As far as I am concerned, the correct way for a Republican to respond when asked about Rush's comment is:
1) Correct the questioner - make it clear that Rush said that he wanted Obama to fail in enacting his policies because his policies will be disastrous for America.
2) Condemn Obama/Rahm/Carville/Begala for attacking Rush as a distraction from the foundering economy.
3) Allow that Rush could have phrased his remarks more clearly to avoid "confusion".
In that order.

19 Oh, come on, Ace. Newt voted himself off the island way back when he crawled into that steamy global warming bed with Nancy Pelosi, if not before.

20 If you keep posting this shit, you'll never learn to move on.....

21 Gingrich took himself out of the club when he (a) advocated surrender on manmade global warming, and (b) filmed that shameful manmade global warming commercial with the harpy. He then turned around last summer and started up the "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less" stuff and has been hammering the Democrats on their energy policies. How he could reconcile those contradictory opinions is to me irrational.

I once had a lot of respect for Gingrich but he lost me last year. I pretty much ignore the guy now.

22 Now it's just getting goddamned stoopid.  Newt's starting to look more like a media whore than Rush,  Ace and Allah are competing for the whiny bitch category of the upcoming "If-you-all-don't-fall-in-line-I'm-going-to-stomp-my-foot" Awards, and in the mean time Obama is pillaging the country.  Way to go, big media blogger types.

23 Miss Marple - wow - I live in Newt's old Atlanta district and I am saddened to hear he pulled that bullshit inexcusable 180.  Sad.

Star - not so fast - Newt said last week he's planning 2012 run.  This is why he's talking shit today - to try to appear moderate to the public, get back some ground lost a decade or more ago via the Clinton-Newt shutdown battle. 

24 Ace and Allah are competing for the whiny bitch category of the upcoming "If-you-all-don't-fall-in-line-I'm-going-to-stomp-my-foot" Awards

Terrific.

25 Posted by: Carl Spackler at March 09, 2009 07:33 PM (kg9Jz)

Stupid sockpuppet.

26 Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter: "I think that Newt tag teaming Pelosi with Rush would be a good way to enhance bipartisanship."

I'm not sure I like where this thread is going. I mean, the visuals are a bit disconcerting, to say nothing of the genitals.

27 Oh, yea, and be sure to come back and chew Orwells ass off for not moving on, cuz, like, yea, you sure are.

28 Jackstraw,

According to h2u "there is no way to win" so we have to concede every argument before it starts so we can "get taken seriously on the big three".

29

Newt criticizes Rush. Rush responds. Ace criticizes Rush.

Just like football, it's always the second guy that gets the penalty.

30

See.. now it's not over.

Ace can plead for it to be over.. but he's pleading with me and I don't decide when it's over.

Gingrich decides when it's over.

And Newt just told Ace to go fuck himself with a pineapple.

How you like that Ace? You gonna take that from Gingrich? I think you should go on MSNBC and call him a RINO pussy.

(Seriously though, neither moron commentators nor moron bloggers decide when enough is enough - only the dipshits on TV get to do that, and it takes 2 to have a pissy slap fight, it's not like it's RUSH SUPPORTERS. The supporters don't have jack to do about this except have pissy slap fights by proxy on moron blogs.)

31 Give me a fucking break. NEWT called Rush irrational. The global warming apologist Newt Gingrich starts this and you go after Rush's supporters? Are you shittin' me?

32 >>>I think calling someone "irrational" is plenty combative.

The difference is that Newt (like Steele) is forced to offer comment about Rush's statement.

Rush really isn't forced to respond to each of these guys' attempts to deal with the headaches he caused.

But he does it anyway, instead of simply blowing it off. He could just say "Well, they're politicians, they're doing the political dance, don't hate the playa, hate the game." Instead he's hellbound to get into a high-profile scrape with anyone who doesn't toe the line.

33 Anonymous - cmon man just trying to lighten it up around here.

This is like a circular moron firing squad lately.

I think its much ado about nothing.  If the economy bounces back hard, even if it is temporary and based on deficit spending, the Dems will do well in 10.  Same with 12.  That's the bottom line and the only really relevant thing re the direction of the country.  
Now we might have a giant conservative backlash in 16 if the bounce happens on deficit spending and collapses in the Messiah's second term....but at the end of hte day, all that matters is unemployment and GDP #'s - not Rush and Newt in a remake of the Odd Couple

34  Newt lost me a long time ago with the global warming B.S.

35 Gingrich, the embodiment of elective Republicans?  Now you guys really are talking out your ass.

He's been a counter effective publicity whore for about a decade.

36 What the hell?  So, since Newt basically called Rush "irrational", it's Rush's fault for saying something about it?!?! 

Newt:  "You're irrational if you don't want the new president to succeed, because if he doesn't succeed the country doesn't succeed."

37

ACE - Rush is bold and principled and believes in what he is doing, and so do I.  His message has cut throught the MSM clutter.  If we sieze this opportunity to demand financial accountability, when it doesn't happen (and it won't) we'll be in a position to say I told you so, and by that time people will be willing to listen!

 

38 >>>ce and Allah are competing for the whiny bitch category of the upcoming "If-you-all-don't-fall-in-line-I'm-going-to-stomp-my-foot" Awards


Wait -- who is?

I sort of thought Rush was by not allowing the most minor attempts at distancing to pass without remark.

39 It's a pointless exercise, because..

In the end, there will be only chaos!

40 But he does it anyway, instead of simply blowing it off. He could just say "Well, they're politicians, they're doing the political dance, don't hate the playa, hate the game." Instead he's hellbound to get into a high-profile scrape with anyone who doesn't toe the line.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at March 09, 2009 07:38 PM (gEsIJ)

That is true Ace, and pretty much any thinking conservative knows that it is better if Rush reserves his fire for liberals instead of conservatives who are ducking and weaving out of the controversy. 

Rush is Rush, however, and that's why the guy has 25 million listeners last week.  Authenticity....

41 >>> Newt isn't running for anything (as far as I know)

Well he did just say he was entertaining the idea of running for President in 2012.

42 "Well, they're politicians, they're doing the political dance, don't hate the playa, hate the game."

WTF? Isn't that pretty much what he said;

"They are fly-by-night operators, and most of them stand for nothing until they see a poll about what the American people want, and then they go out and try to say one way or another what the American people want while trying to falsely hold onto an ideology at the same time — and you can’t count on them. You can’t depend on them. They will sell you out; they will throw you overboard to save themselves, faster than anything. And they’ll use you on their way up as often as they can at the same time."

43 and he does have a PAC with some fairly decent political goals, like stopping EFCA, cutting the corporate tax rate, cutting the capital gains tax rate, etc.

44 "Ace and Allah are competing for the whiny bitch category of the upcoming "If-you-all-don't-fall-in-line-I'm-going-to-stomp-my-foot" Awards, and in the mean time Obama is pillaging the country. "


love. it.

45 Rush needs 2 get over himself.

46 I stand corrected on Newt running. Does he know that presidential candidates have to go through a primary?  I wonder how pissing off Rush fits into his strategy to make Republicans vote for him.

47 Ace -

Seriously, what the fuck dude.

I'm necessarily sure Rush is in the right here, but bitching about Rush after Newt called him irrational seems a bit.... selective.

48

>>The difference is that Newt (like Steele) is forced to offer comment about Rush's statement.

What kind of pussy is "forced" to offer comment? What kind of pussy is "forced" to answer the question head on without subtle evasion: he is a fucking politician for fuck sake. That should be his bread and butter.

49

Newt:  "You're irrational if you don't want the new president to succeed, because if he doesn't succeed the country doesn't succeed."

He actually said that?

50 Mwahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

51 >>The difference is that Newt (like Steele) is forced to offer comment about Rush's statement.

Newt is a political commentator and no longer holds any public office and never will again.

Oh, and I don't know but maybe, just spitballing here, maybe Newt could have said "Yes, it's irrational for anyone to say they want the President to fail but that's not what Rush said. He said he hopes Obama fails to get his policies enacted and so do I".

For the life of me I can't understand how you guys bitch and moan that our politicians don't man up and fight for what we want but the second a political operative throws a curve at somebody on our side you advocate retreat and surrender. Newt spent years in the Congress as THE lightening rod and he damn well knows how to diffuse political games. He chose not to and instead threw Limbaugh under the bus. The end.

52 carl,

um, yeah, I think he went a bit further than that. "They will sell you out."

All because someone attempted to distance himself, understandably, from a problematic remark Rush made.

Again, when these four words became core conservative doctrine, I don't know.

Happened very quickly.

53 This is wonderful.  The Dems are f*cking up left and right, wrecking the country and begging for us to take back House and Senate seats... but we're all too busy with the circular firing squad.

54 I sort of thought Rush was by not allowing the most minor attempts at distancing to pass without remark.

"I disagree with Rush's remarks (with optional elaboration here)" = distancing.

"Irrational" = Not so much distancing.

55 These posts seem to just be traffic-inflating flame-bait anymore. Growing weary...

Giving up my positions in order to win isn't winning. Global warming is dumb, period. I'm all for reducing waste, but it doesn't cause global warming.

56 Defending oneself against "ugly", "incendiary", "divisive", and now "irrational" is really just expecting everyone to "toe the line".   OH,,,I see your reasoning now. 

/s

57

Well he did just say he was entertaining the idea of running for President in 2012.

In that case, Newt, of all people, should know that trying to curry favor with the MSM is a fool's errand. For fuck's sake, we just got our ass handed to us even though we were running the Media's Favorite Republican.

58 >>>I stand corrected on Newt running. Does he know that presidential candidates have to go through a primary? I wonder how pissing off Rush fits into his strategy to make Republicans vote for him.

How about Rush stops griefing against anyone who dares to preserve his political viability by distancing himself from a politically troublesome statement?

59

I expect the quote at the top of AoS to be changed soon to:

"Every professional 'conservative' blogger must be tenpted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the raninbow flag, and begin sucking liberal cock. -Ace."

60 Mr. of Spades,

I believe it's time for an intervention. Is there anyone in particular you would like us to recruit while you're in rehab? The hits will keep coming, so you can leave the blog to the morons for a few days.

Sincerely,
Concerned Commentariat and Unicorn Slaughterers

61 LOL! My strategy is totally working!

Operation Chaos is going just as planned.

62 Yeah, funny.

Okay, Newt's out. Turncoat traitor. Liberal media cocksucker.

63 I want to urge Newt and his supporters to stop being such asshats.

64 This is wonderful.  The Dems are f*cking up left and right, wrecking the country and begging for us to take back House and Senate seats... but we're all too busy with the circular firing squad.

Posted by: skuld1 at March 09, 2009 07:44 PM (ATgPl)

No shit. Can we please stop. Conservatives: please stop answering these questions! If you disagree with how it was said, say something like "While I would have phrased it differently, I agree that we don't want to convert this country into a socialist state." If you disagree with the previous statement, admit that you're a liberal.

Ace and AP need to stop commenting on it! For fuck sake!

65

I'd like to see Steele respond to Gingrich's boning of other women while his wife died of cancer or whatever the fuck that was I vaguely remember and don't care enough about to actually bother checking before slandering him.

Any MSM types please get on that.

MSM: Michael Steele, would YOU bone some random hot chick and divorce your wife while she lies in a hospital bed dying?

Michael Steele: I think that's a horrible, ugly thing to do. You know, Newt, Newt is a bastard.

MSM: You know republicans talk alot about family values, but then you see them cheating on their dying wives. Do all republicans act like that?

Michael Steele: *nods head* Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. Well I don't, and I'm here now and I'm trying to change that.

66 Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter @ 33,

I keed. I keed. I hope you were able to read (as in view) the whole sentence.

67 The difference is that Newt (like Steele) is forced to offer comment about Rush's statement.

Rush really isn't forced to respond to each of these guys' attempts to deal with the headaches he caused.

I disagree. Newt (and Steele) can feel free to point out to the interviewer how ludicrous it is for them to bring up the topic in the first place and change the subject. If he is not skilled enough to do that, he could say something non-sound-bitey about how great it is that in this country a guy like Rush can work his way up to the top of his field and attract so much attention. If he's skilled (which Newt is) he could say it in a way that ridicules the interviewer while smiling the entire time.

As for Rush, like all of my favorite bloggers, he is a media guy who thrives off of traffic to bring in the ad revenue. It's not his job to do things in coordination with the RNC, particularly when there is little/no evidence that the RNC has ever bothered to solicit his opinion or follow his advice.

Instead he's hellbound to get into a high-profile scrape with anyone who doesn't toe the line.

This is the point. Rush is not worried about losing money from Pajamas Media. Maybe this is why.

I still think the point I raised here (or maybe it was Hot Air) about how this shows a fundamental lack of respect for Rush's listeners holds true. Steele (and many of our pundits) in particular seems embarrassed by Rush, imagining he has gone over some sort of line of acceptable discourse that only they (and, ironically enough, Obama's administration and his media lapdogs) can see... as if somehow Rush's listeners (and advertisers, apparently) are too dumb to see.

I like Don Imus, but when he made his remarks about the women's b-ball team he went over a much clearer line than Rush has even come close to approaching... and Imus paid the price.

Why can't our leaders and pundits trust us to tell Rush if he steps over the line?

68 "Okay, Newt's out. Turncoat traitor. Liberal media cocksucker."

Ace, let me guess:  you and Newt are on the same page when it comes to global warming, too, right?

69 So Rush was unforgivably vague with "I want him to fail", and unforgivably clear with "they will sell you out"?

70 Newt was out of the club when he sat down with pelosi.  another useful idiot.

71

Rush is getting more attention than he ever has, there is something to be said to becoming a "phenomonom" [sic] just as Obama came out of nowhere and became a ROCK STAR.  He is defining the HARD RIGHT and shifting the discussion in the other direction, it doesn't matter what SNL says about him, out of sheer curosity people will listen to him, many will be surprised and convinced, many that otherwise would ignore him.  And besides all of the above: HE IS TELLING THE TRUTH!  RUSH IS RIGHT!

72 I AM MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!


And by "I'm not", I mean "I am" and by "it", I mean Rahm Emmanuel's liberal prick up by quiahncydancy,,,

73 Wait, the same Newt Gingrich that sided with Hillary on the need for nationalized healthcare?  The same Newt Gingrich that fell in line with the warmists?

You want for I should take him seriously?

If he gets the Republican nomination in 2012, the Republican party DESERVES to lose.

There is only one response to anyone in the media who demands that a Republican distance himself from Limbaugh's statement: "I'm sorry that you are too stupid to understand two very simple sentences.  Perhaps a remedial course in English is in order before you attempt any further news analysis."

Jeff's right.  We can no longer sit idly by while the left redefines the rules of communication to suit their agenda. A Republican says something so blisteringly simple to comprehend, and so obviously true to any unbiased observer, and the left gets to rewrite the sentence to completely change its meaning?

Not just no, but FUCK NO!

If we are going to start playing the game of picking our words to avoid being intentionally misquoted, or give "space" to our lily-livered representatives to distance themselves from such intentional misbehavior, then we've already lost.

74 Can't we all just ... get along?

75

as i stated on another blog:

Newt has been dead to me since he sat on a park bench with Queen Bug-Eyes.

76

How about we stop conflating "defend" with "not throw under the bus"?

Because I don't care if Newt or anyone else defends Rush. What I care is that these jackasses keep taking the bait.

For God's sake, you'd think that professional politicians would have enough talent and smarts to dodge these landmines and stay on offense against the real enemy.

But nooooooo. It's Me too! me too! I hate Rush too! He's vile and irrational!!

Fuck that noise. Newt's a jackass. So it Steele. So is everyone else who can't find a way to turn the issue back on Obama and his trollish followers.

This sure as fuck isn't my party any more.

77 If a Republican/Conservative feels the need to distance him or herself from Limbaugh, no problem. But how hard is it to do so without getting in a shot at the guy? Morons on this site, over the past few Limbaugh threads, have offered up example responses that can distance the responder without the slam. Why is it that the average moron can do it, but our pols and ex-pols can't? I'm forced to hope it is because their egos won't allow it. The only other plausible alternative is that they are no where near as bright as the average moron.

78 I'm glad Rahm is listening to my advice.

79 "Turncoat traitor. Liberal media cocksucker"  Yea, cuz that's exactly what Rush said, right? 

How about this instead: "They will sell you out; they will throw you overboard to save themselves, faster than anything. And they’ll use you on their way up as often as they can at the same time."

Now, exactly what part of that doesn't describe Newt?

80 No, I hate Gingrich's bullshit on global warming. That's one of the main reasons (that and a messy personal life, and high negatives) I never got with the Newt for President trial balloons in 2007.

But I've now changed the post.

I'm tired of arguing -- you win. Rush is the only spokesman in the party who matters. The only one.

81 Right Newt.  Barry is just going to suddenly change his mind. 

Jesus Christ it's enough to make me beat my kitten.

82 Re the revised post:  your hairshirt is showing.

83 Question: can I agree with Rush and Jeff G. on this issue WITHOUT totally distancing myself from Ace, Newt, or anyone else in the party?

Because really, I didn't know how serious this whole "us/them" thing was.  I thought we were cool because we could disagree on some questions without demanding everyone who doesn't toe the f'n line be excommunicated.

http://www.ahajokes.com/reg38.html

84 Damn, who ripped Ace's tampon out? 

85 Stupid Republicans! They get distracted so easily.

Look over there while we pass universal health care!

86 I'm tired of arguing -- you win. Rush is the only spokesman in the party who matters. The only one.

And don't you forget it, you turncoat traitor liberal media c*cksucker! GET IN LINE!

:-)

87 I haven't liked Gingrich for a long time, I got sick of hearing:  "...If you read  my book..." every time he was on TV.

88 Gingrich essentially had to withdraw from politics because of extreme media distortion.  He was too abrasive and unpolished, we were told.

The irony is literally fucking blinding!

89 kensington,

Hairshirt? Reality.

90 Re the revised post:  your hairshirt is showing.

Seriously.  Get some fucking sleep, Ace.

"Dis" is short for "disrespect," not DISAGREE.  The latter does not fucking imply the former.

91 Come on everybody, don't you get it?


Allah and Ace are just trying to get a mention on Limbaugh's show tomorrow.

92 For fuck's sake, I don't care if a politician feels the need to put a little distance between himself and Limbaugh. I just wish the cockholsters could do it in a competent fashion that doesn't involve calling a goodly sized chunk of the GOP base ugly, divisive, or irrational.

93 "Hairshirt? Reality."

Dude, I love you, in the manliest of senses.  Love, love LOVE YOU.

And yeah, you're being a whiny victimy bitch about this, barely distinguishable from Allah.  Imagine that.

94 If you're going to insist that every politco wear Rush's more provocative remarks around their necks -- good luck.

That is what you are insisting. No distancing allowed.

You are putting the people who actually run for office and raise money for pacs in a very difficult position. You are telling them to choose between the Rush Base and the Non Rush Base. You will not allow them the space to try to get both.

95 Well, I can say that the people here in Roswell, GA loved Newt when he was their representative, if that's worth anything. 

I am really troubled by his quoted shittalking re Katrina from #16 above and his seeming inability to duck a question re Rush without re-unleashing the hounds.

96 >>This sure as fuck isn't my party any more.

Word. When I said some time ago that I re-registered as an Independent not because I left the Republican party but because it left me I go shit for it. But I feel it more and more. I have no idea what this party will fight against anymore accept one of their own who embarrasses them.

97 Allah and Ace are just trying to get a mention on Limbaugh's show tomorrow.

Yeah, nothing we say is because we actually believe it.

98 Seriously. Get some fucking sleep, Ace.

Forget sleep. I just hope Ace has a date for Saturday's Steak and BJ Day festivities.

99 And Zaza Pachulia rules.

100

Perhaps it's true that Rush doesn't need to take the bait every time a high profile Republican targets him.  However I'm more worried about the idiotic strategy that's leading them to do so in the first place.

The notion that the party needs to win "moderates" by distancing itself from outspoken conservatives and conservativism itself in order to win is a myth, and a counterproductive one.  Sure, there are a few issues that might have some wiggle room, but becoming more like Democrats isn't the way to beat Democrats.  Ideologies don't win, candidates win.

Yet we're told that to win the "moderate" vote- which every election goes to the more likeable candidate, politics be damned- we need to embrace Arlen Specter and John McCain while pushing away the likes of Rush.  It's this Beltway elite attitude that is the cause of the party's troubles, not Rush, Coulter or Hannity as Newt apparently now believes.

 

101 Yes Ace, those of use defending Rush want him to be the only voice that matters in the republican party. Yep, sure got our number. If republicans want to preface every address with "I don't agree with Rush" THATS FUCKING FINE. Most of us are just asking that they do it without calling his comments "ugly" or "irrational". They seem to be able to say they disagree with democrats with those additions.

102 I have no idea what this party will fight against anymore accept one of their own who embarrasses them.

Really?  Ace hasn't done any criticism of Obama, huh?

103

Rush is the only spokesman in the party who matters. The only one.

Hardly. It's not about him at all.

In two months I'll be defending Gingrich from ... Steele or somebody else. Defending Steele from David Frum maybe..

The point is that we stop throwing our own under the bus when the media cries fake outrage at a purposely misconstrued and manufactured controversy.

You can sit here all day long and say "WHY the FUCK are we talking about RUSH?"

OK. Good.

Why can't Gingrich say that?

_{(Without the FUCK, maybe replace that with a more family friendly FREAKIN SHIT").}

Seriously. Why? Why can't Gingrich say what Ace says?

I'm not mad at Gingrich for insulting Dear Leader Rushbo. I'm mad at Gingrich for starting shit with republicans over trivial crap that is obvious bait.

Why is he being a dumbass? Why can't he see what Ace sees? That's my problem here.

Ace - why the hell do you give him such an easy pass?

Don't turn this into a Rush thing. It's a "Don't throw irrelevant conservative pundits under the bus and insult their audience when the media baits you" thing. Any conservative. They're not the issue.

104 Shunning wall is up.

Newt has already been dead to many conservatives, despite his attempts to Johnny-come-lately on issues like drilling for oil. Note: that was right after he snuggled in the ad with Nancy Pelosi on the global warming, carbon capture love-seat.

105

I think some people do not understand what is going on here.  This isn't about Rush vs Newt or rush vs steele or even rush vs Obama.  this is about which foundation do we use to start to rebuild.  Do we go the Bush moderate route of Steele slicing and dicing demographics.  Do we consent ourselves to be the permenant minority that many of the congressional reps want us to be just go along to get along so they get their plush offices and some prok thrown at them once in awhile like spector, snowe and collins to name a few.  Do we go with the conservative ideas of individual freedom, capitalism, self government, founding documents like rush says or do we want to go the policy wonk/pragmatism route like Newt/frum etc want.   

I think we can go all of the above if done right but some egos would get hurt.  however the overriding idea must be Reagan not Bush.  Both bush presidents were failures.  They both lost massive majorities to little named character challanged dems.  their ideas and policies have been rejected not once but twice by the Americian people.  Newt's and Reagan's/Rush's have both been excepted and endorsed by the Americian people.  thus if we can combine the ideas of reagan with the policy wonks like Newt we can win and win big.  the drive to pick one way is a drive for leadership.  Newt is not and can never be that leader.  Simple character issues and his willingness to buckle in the face of crisis.  He allowed Clinton to form the debate over spending.  He proved at that point he was not ready to lead.  Rush has not buckled has not left the field and continues to fight. 

 

106 That is what you are insisting. No distancing allowed.

No.  No, no, and no.  You don't get to insist that one adult referring to another as "irrational" is simply "distancing himself."  Oh to be sure, he's doing it, but in a way every bit as inflammatory as you're insisting Rush did.

107 When did Limbaugh become an Obama like figure about whom no bad word may be spoken except upon pain of excommunication from the conservative movement? 

Was there a memo? An email I missed perhaps?

108 Newt can not be taken seriously. No one that buys into the cult of AGW can. It is proof of his/her inability to think (or to just fucking read, for that matter).

109

You are putting the people who actually run for office and raise money for pacs in a very difficult position. You are telling them to choose between the Rush Base and the Non Rush Base. You will not allow them the space to try to get both.

NO!

Saying "Rush is irrational" or "Rush is ugly" isn't trying to get both!

I want them to get both!

Saying "WTF does Rush have to do with this? I'm Newt Gingrich. Let's talk about my PAC. Ask Rush what Rush thinks." - that lets you go for BOTH like we BOTH want.

That's why Newt et al is in the wrong here. They need to go for BOTH. Deflect. You can say "Look, Rush is entitled to whatever views he holds, I can only speak for myself, and I believe..."

That's fine! No problemo! You don't have to involve derogatory terms here.

110 Rush is the only spokesman in the party who matters. The only one.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at March 09, 2009 07:54 PM (gEsIJ)

Please remove that childish statement. Nobody is saying that. Nobody is saying that people can't disagree with Rush. There is no reason to castigate him in disagreeing with how he said something. And if you disagree with the content of what he was saying (wanting assaults on individualism and the implementation of socialism to fail), then you are not a conservative.

111 >>>. Yep, sure got our number. If republicans want to preface every address with "I don't agree with Rush" THATS FUCKING FINE. Most of us are just asking that they do it without calling his comments "ugly" or "irrational". They seem to be able to say they disagree with democrats with those additions.

Right... they didn't state things quite right, so they're to be criticized. But suggest that Rush didn't say things quite right, and you're a turncoat sell-out.

Whatev's. I give up.

Is Rush running for all 435 House seats in 2010?

112 Honestly, after Newt sounded like a moron on the "global warming" issue going so far as to have a commercial made with Pelosie, he proved himself to be kind of worthless. What has he done for republicans or conservatives lately.


Ace, why did Newt get involved in this at all? Why say anything at all about Rush? How about the prudent, smart, thing would be to shut up about it.

113 You are putting the people who actually run for office and raise money for pacs in a very difficult position. You are telling them to choose between the Rush Base and the Non Rush Base. You will not allow them the space to try to get both.

No, Ace.  The people the Republicans are trying to court ARE NOT CONSERVATIVE AND NEVER WILL BE.  The Republicans are trying to court various single-issue groups that are only interested in having the government advance their particular agenda - typically involving the government dictating the behavior of the masses on their behalf.

And that just ain't what conservatism is about.

We don't grow the party by saying to Democrat voters "hey, we've got better shit over here".  We grow the party by showing people that the Democrat way is about remaining subservient to the government for the rest of your days, and having to continually readjust your life to their whims.

And we can't accomplish that as long as we allow the media to willingly distort everything we say to be used as evidence against us.

114 When did Limbaugh become an Obama like figure about whom no bad word may be spoken except upon pain of excommunication from the conservative movement? 

Was there a memo? An email I missed perhaps?

Posted by: DrewM at March 09, 2009 08:01 PM (hlYel)

You fools are so obtuse and childish. Are you guys teenagers or something?

115 Yeah, nothing we say is because we actually believe it.

Fuck you, Allah.  We snark here. If you've got a problem with that, go back and troll your own site.

116 Next: Ann Coulter!

(Rubs hands together in glee.)

117 >>Yeah, nothing we say is because we actually believe it.

Not the 90% of the people on the right blogosphere who seem to disagree with you. We are just cultists. Right?

118 First of all, Newt has no political viability to preserve.  He's deluding himself if he thinks he's going to be the nominee in 2012.
Second, I don't have a problem with a Republican who aspires to hold or take a marginal seat wanting to distance himself from Rush's remark, but there is a huge difference between distancing and being baited into attacking Rush.  Also, everyone knows that the content of Rush's remark (that he didn't want Obama's radical policies enacted) is universally true of any opposition party.  By getting Republican's to renounce that position, the media are basically declaring off-limits any opposition to Obama's agenda.  If we reject the position that we want to prevent Obama's agenda from becoming reality, we must support Obama's agenda.  The media are doing through Rush exactly what Democrats (falsely) accused the Bush administration of doing - equating supporting the nation with supporting the president.  If Republicans go along with this, it will be impossible to voice any opposition to Obama without being accused of wanting America to fail.
Even if you don't like Rush (and I don't, particularly), we need to stop allowing the media/democrats to tell us what is and isn't acceptable opposition.

119 >>> There is no reason to castigate him in disagreeing with how he said something.

I have offered the mildest criticism of him and have been blasted for it.

Those of you claiming there IS some "permissible" way to criticize Limbaugh are simply deluding to yourselves. I have tried eight different ways, and I have been castigated on every shot.

And my only reason for discussing this at all is because Rush's ego is causing him to TEAR DOWN EVERY FUCKING OTHER SPOKESMAN WE HAVE.

For the great crime of distancing themselves from a politcally troublesome statement.

People keep claiming "Of course it's allowed to criticize Limbaugh." No -- from personal experience, I can tell you this is no longer permitted in the GOP.

120 I love this site too but you guys have become total dicks on this subject.

121 Has anybody noticed that any form of the statement ":The Democrats beat us." is total and complete bullshit.

We beat ourselves, pure and simple.

And now we are doing the dead horse number.

We have no idea who we are, never mind having a reason why we should win.

I wish Ace would go back to playing with Andrew Sullivan's thing--he wqs doing less harm.

And for the record, I have been complaining about Gingrich since he sold us out when he had the reins, but I don't just run on and on about it.

I don't list to Limbaugh, or Imus or Stearns--I don't like that stuff.

But it does appear that we would be better off if we could just shut up for a while.

122 I know. I have this weird thing inside me that revolts against the idea I have to bow down to one man.

123 We are just cultists. Right?

I thought we were, with all the hobos and guys with shirts and cheap vodka and stuff.  I was even handing out pamphlets at the airport.

Then everything went all weird.

124 No, Drew! You should have just known! How can you call yourself a Republican!?!?! You probably sleep next to an idol of Dear Leader Obama! You should shut up!!!!!!!!!one!!!!

125 "Good riddance to bad rubbish. We didn't need him anyway. He contributed nothing."

So we have to distance ourselves from Rush because of his loose tongue, but Newt is somehow to be embraced and championed.  Doesn't Newt have some baggage, too?  What makes him so sacrosanct?

126 Note to Republicans scheduled to be on the shows next Sunday morning: They're gonna ask you about Limbaugh. Love him or hate him or indifferent, please don't act surprised. If you can't figure out a way to dodge the controversy, think harder. Or ask a staffer, or some homeless guy. Just don't make it harder than it has to be.

127 "Why can't we just get a bong." -- Rodney King, Metaphysics, p. 358

128 I guess the summary is "We don't need any enemies, were a killing ourselves just fine, thank you."

129 Nader '12!

Because he was right about those explodey cars.

130 >>Really? Ace hasn't done any criticism of Obama, huh?

And by your logic, if Ace became important enough and Axlerod decided to launch a smear attack on him, I should shit on him, huh?

Well call me a cultist but I wouldn't.

131 Right... they didn't state things quite right, so they're to be criticized. But suggest that Rush didn't say things quite right, and you're a turncoat sell-out.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at March 09, 2009 08:02 PM (gEsIJ)

You're propagating the problem. Rush said something stupid that hurt conservatives because the MSM is in the backpocket. How are you and others going to get back at the MSM and liberals? By doing the same thing? By dividing the movement? Nice. Great idea.

132 OOOOOhhhhhh, thank goodness Allah is here to defend Ace.

Man, is that telling.



"Yeah, nothing we say is because we actually believe it."

Allah, you post a lot of stuff considered website whoring.

133 Maybe Rush should just chill out, maybe, and let some things go?

Or is that too much to ask?

134

So what?

Why do you have to criticize Limbaugh?

I'm not saying "there a way to do it"

I'm saying you can achieve your neccessary distance without criticizing.

You simply defect and don't bite media bait bullshit. This is politics 101. STAY ON MESSAGE! Don't let some jackass newsbabe distract you into getting into a pissy fight with someone on your own side.

135 Can we get a post the Rasmussen poll showing a majority of Republicans don't think there's a leader for the party? This is 100 percent the fucking problem...without any kind of unifying force to rally behind (for God's sake, we actually rallied around McCain when we had to) all the factions will do is shred each other...

Rush is a vital part of the party, but he ain't the fucking leader of it. It'd be like putting Bob Hope in charge of the Army in WWII...the troops love him, but I doubt he can beat the Axis

136 Ace doesn't understand the meaning of "last word."

Keep posting about it, Ace that will help.

137

Posted by: bunny boy at March 09, 2009 08:04 PM (YsSn7)

Amen; ask a homeless guy for a better response. He'll have three.

138 Allah, you post a lot of stuff considered website whoring.

Don't read it.

139 It'll be over soon, now.  Howard Dean was on to make some last jokes and say enough is enough.  He'll go back to the office and call Rahm and they'll chuckle agree it's time to move on.  Rahm will take to his media roundtable in the morning as tell them to let it rest and they get their new target soon.Stephanopolus, et al, will clear the que of spineless Republicans that had lined up to ask the Rush question and drop it from the question lineup.  Mag's like Newsweek and CBS might be in a little hole if they paid for the guest writers and all but they can always put it on the shelf and use it anyway if the atmosphere changes.

Chris, Peggy and Kathleen may have to walk the streets winking for for some work.  Dave will talk to his one reader live at NewMinority and Rod well, he's no going back under his desk to hide from the guy with the pink paper in his shirt pocket.

140 "I hate you guys." -Cartman

141 It really comes down to this:
I want Obama to fail.
Newt doesn't.
Rush does.
I therefore support Rush.

And Newt is a douche.

142 How about Newt chill and let things go he is less relevant than Rush. Ask around.

143

>>Maybe Rush should just chill out, maybe, and let some things go?

How the fuck can he when stupid fucking morons in the "conservative" movement keep attacking him? What is he? French?

144

OT, Fuck newt it's always about HIM!

OK, the real question, Why does "The One"  wear british ties? US stripped ties are different from UK ties.  Look at your ties.  Barry's strips go UK, NOT USA.  What's with that??

Kemp

145 I don't anymore.

146 Ace #133

Well, Rush is in the business to driving people to his show...

147 Jesus Christ it's enough to make me beat my kitten land fish.

148 Can we get back to talking about important things....like titties, bacon and pooter?

149 "People keep claiming "Of course it's allowed to criticize Limbaugh." No -- from personal experience, I can tell you this is no longer permitted in the GOP."

Maybe, instead of trying to find the best way to criticize Limbaugh, the GOP ought to put their energies into, I don't know, CRITICIZING OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS!

For crying out loud...

150 Is it me or is does Gabe have contempt for 90% of the posters here??

151 This is so awesome, the conservative movement has never had so much potential. 

152

You are putting the people who actually run for office and raise money for pacs in a very difficult position. You are telling them to choose between the Rush Base and the Non Rush Base. You will not allow them the space to try to get both.

Who's asking them to make that choice in the first place? 

Sure, the Dems will try, but they always have- unsuccessfully.  Yet Steele and Newt just had to go out of their way to do their dirty work for them.  That's my problem with this.  Had they simply disagreed with something he said, there wouldn't be a controversy.  Instead they dissed him personally.

I know why they're doing it- this notion that it's the likes of Rush that's driving "moderates" away.  But they're wrong.  Bush won because people believed that he meant what he said, even if they disagreed with it.  With subsequent huge spending sprees, earmark inspired corruption and the lack of a leader to advance principles, Republicans deserved to lose even if Democrats didn't deserve to win.

153 Oh, brother.....you posted it knowing the reaction you were going to get then throw a  tempertantrumcrossedoutmyshit fit.  I think any dems, ie. Begalla and Carville that are looking to see if we are following any "agenda they've set" have long moved on to reading blogs from adults.

I worked on Newt's midwest team.  I slogged through the Iowa State Fair in fucking 100 degree weather through pig barns and spelling bees with him.  If the people have to chose somebody to explain the conservative movement to them, it will be Rush over Newt any day.  Newt shouldn't be distancing himself from Rush, he should be hanging onto every bit of fucking coattail he can get.

154 Newt: "You've got to want the president to succeed. You're irrational if you don't want the president to succeed. Because if he doesn't succeed the country doesn't succeed... I don't think anyone should want the president of the United States to fail. I want some of his policies to be stopped. But I don't want the president of the United States to fail. I want him to learn new policies."

And if he can't or won't learn new policies, do you still want him to succeed?

We owe Richard Nixon an apology. He was just trying to succeed and we hounded him from office.

Nobody's kicking Newt out of the club. Or Ace. Or anybody else. But just as these Bailouts are freezing failure into place, we're having a long-overdue discussion about conservatism so we won't freeze the failure of the last two elections into place.

Quit trying to shush everybody. We NEED this--it's healthy. We've already disrupted the Honeymoon.

155

For what it's worth, sarcasm or not, I actually like the new title and post better.

Good change... good change.

156

Hey, here's an idea. Why don't Republicans like Newt start asking, "Why does Barrack Obama think that he is America? That's a little arrogant, don't you think? Rush said he wanted Obama's policies to fail. I've got news for Obama. His policies aren't America."

And just like that, you have a new narrative.

Then every Republican follows the talking points when they're asked about Rush - "Rush said he hopes Obama's policies fail, not America. Why does Obama think he's America? And why is he wasting time engaging a talk show host while people are losing their retirements?"

Would that be too hard?

Why, yes. I guess it would be. Better to call Rush Limbaugh "vile" and hope it buys you something from the cocksucking media. Winning strategy! Just ask John McCain!

 

 

157 "Maybe, instead of trying to find the best way to criticize Limbaugh, the GOP ought to put their energies into, I don't know, CRITICIZING OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS"

Amen, brother.

158 Boy, I sure would like some info about lace wigs right now.

159 In case you guys haven't noticed, people actually in the business of elective politics keep trying to distance themselves from this statement.

They are not doing so for shits and giggles. They are doing so because it doesn't play in peoria.

You guys are all making the same fantastical argument again and again: "Let's just get out the word that what Rush said is right!!!"

As if we have a media monopoly and can just do that.

We can't. The politicos know this, which is why they don't want to get into an argument about it.

You guys are insisting they do. And if they don't, they're selling out Rush and (of course) the very heart of conservativism itself.

I am not being entirely snarky when I note your entire plan to "fight back" involves basically buying one or two broadcast networks and installing a pro-conservative team that will faithfully broadcast your spin as often as possible.

Since you do NOT have such a capability, I would advise you to be a little more realistic about things and stop insisting people fight for FOUR WORDS which are not, in fact, in the constitution.

160 Hey, so let's get back to the substantive issues here.

Is Sarah Palin a snakehandling Pentacostal cyanide drinking whore of a mother or not?

We never settled whether or not having her on the ticket destroyed McCain's shoe-in campaign or not.

Discuss.

161 Was there a memo? An email I missed perhaps?

Posted by: DrewM at March 09, 2009 08:01 PM (hlYel)

 

yeah it came out Nov4th.  when the moderates lost the power of the rep party leadership and the nation.  It is just taking them longer to understand that.  The nation rejected them, the base rejected them.  Their own "supporters" rejected them and voted for the other team.  They have a voice but if they had any sense of shame they would be talking in as small a voice as they could.  They lost and they lost big.  It is time the moderates get this fact drilled into their little minds.  Their policy and leadership style were not only rejected, but buried and burned by the Americian people and the Rep conservative base on Nov 4th.  Deal with it.

162 Distancing from Rush's distorted out of context comment is not the way to unite conservatives, nor win votes. We, tepid, neither cold nor hot, should not be surprised when America spits us out. This comment by Rush is working into the sword in the stone for Republican leadership. He who can, criticize the one, reconcile the failure of socialism, to the success of the United States, to a people yearning for freedom, he shall lead the Republican party out of the darkness....

163 Does it ever occur to anyone that the reason the Democrats want to tie Republicans to Limbaugh is because they know he isn't very popular with non-movement conservatives?

Given that that is likely true, why exactly are we determined to hug him even closer?

We can still be just as conservative but we don't have to make a radio host the face of a political movement. They are two very different jobs and require very different skill sets. Is that so revolutionary or heretical notion?

164 "Maybe, instead of trying to find the best way to criticize Limbaugh, the GOP ought to put their energies into, I don't know, CRITICIZING OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS"

Maybe Rush can do this, too?

Seems to me that his show has mostly been about this lately -- and of course he cannot refrain from attacking GOPers while he's at it.

165 ... and as this stupid food fight between blowhards continues, Rome still burns.

Priorities.

166

They are doing so because it doesn't play in peoria.

Damn, I can't believe you said that seriously and not in jest.

WTF is Peoria? Peoria, Illinois? I've been to Peoria.

Let me tell you something:

FUCK Peoria. That place is a shithole.

167

Ace,

  No one forced Gingrich to call Rush "irrational". He either chose his words poorly or chose to voice them in such an inflammatory manner because it served his purpose. When did we become such PC asshats that we do not expect someone who has been called out to respond? It seems to me we did a bit too much of that turn the other cheek thing during GWB's presidency.  BTW, does Gingrich really think that anyone who doesn't want this president's socialist/communist policies to fail is irrational? Gingrich should know better than to equate the success of a president with the success of his people. Afterall, I betcha there were millions of Russians in retrospect who would have wished Lenin and his policies a bit less success.

168

Count the racist comments in this song.   http://tinyurl.com/6pfk95

169 What the fuck is it with the "politically troublesome statement" shit?

Who doesn't want this Marxist cocksucker to fail?  Can a private citizen, known for his conservative views not espouse this hope without every Tom, Dick, Newt, and Ace jumping his ass?

Good for Rush.  If he didn't defend himself every damn lowlife nobody would be coming out taking shots at him.  Look what happened to Bush because he never defended himself against the lies and slander.

Fuck Newt.

170 "They are not doing so for shits and giggles. They are doing so because it doesn't play in peoria."

What the hell are you talking about? Rush is Peoria.

171 150 Is it me or is does Gabe have contempt for 90% of the posters here??   Well, yeah. But 90% of the posters here have contempt for Gabe, so the math works out perfectly.

172 "Is Sarah Palin a snakehandling Pentacostal cyanide drinking whore of a mother or not?"

That's a trick question:  there's no convincing evidence she's ever had a child.

173

>>You guys are all making the same fantastical argument again and again: "Let's just get out the word that what Rush said is right!!!"

As if we have a media monopoly and can just do that. <<

Everyone that goes on TV that might have looked at a conservative within the last 20 years is being asked the same question. You'd think that it might be possible to get the message across.

174

Lemme try. Do I want the President to fail? My answer:

"The President urgently needs to take appropriate measures, and in these, I want him to succeed.

"As far as the urgency of the problem, that's all up to him, his advisers and his cabinet. I wish them every success in recognizing the urgency of our situation. This is something we haven't seen since the Bush team left the White House. I wish for the President to succeed in displaying the decisiveness that America needs from its President and his highest-ranked staff.

"As far as appropriateness, it's up to our elected representatives to support measures that are appropriate and to oppose those that are inappropriate. In those measures that I deem appropriate, I wish him every success in these as well."

Is there anything there that can be taken out of context and turned into a story line for One Tree Hill?

175 alright this Newt vs Rush is really useless, at least the Rush vs. Obama highlighted the Conservative point of view which is always drowned out by the msm and got people to listen to Rush and perhaps educate them as to what really is going on. This bullshit only point is to get Newt headlines. He is a brilliant guy with some damn good ideas, and as far as healthcare it is already nationalized...it's called medicaid and medicare and it the biggest piece of fraud ever to come down the pike, I think that's Newt's point is to clean it up. Anyhow maybe if you are critical of Rush you will get on air, maybe that's key here. We Conservatives have a difficult time getting thru to the public, Rush has golden EIB every week day opportunity but not the other Conservatives. So perhaps that's the key to get air time. Think we all need to calm down, and think strategy about getting our message out there.

176 >> In case you guys haven't noticed, people actually in the business of elective politics keep trying to distance themselves from this statement.

How they been doing in this thing called elective politics lately?

Meanwhile, Limbaugh's numbers surge and Obama sinks.

Yes, we need more experts to tell us why doing the right thing is wrong. I'm sure that will work.

177 That's a trick question:  there's no convincing evidence she's ever had a child.

Heh. Just seeing if you're paying attention.

Well played.

178 Maybe Ace really is Newt...

179
"Seems to me that his show has mostly been about this lately -- and of course he cannot refrain from attacking GOPers while he's at it."


Rush has a right to call out the squishies. I love it. I like knowing who they are. He's not attacking, it's only been about defense. Get off that one Ace, you're wrong on that one.

180

Ace of Spades at March 09, 2009 08:11 PM (gEsIJ)

 

You are wrong IMO.  Dean came out today and told the dems to knock it off.  It isn't working.  the politicans are distancing themselves because that is what slimy politicians do whenever ANY confrotational issue comes up.  they distance themselves.  Obama has been losing support every since Rush attacked him.  Sure it could be for a number of issues but rush has a hand in that.  The politicians in Washington are by and large moderate Rino's I could really care less if we lost EVERY REP in Congress that had a hand in enabling Bush to highjack the party of Reagan.  Every last one of them. 

 

181 >>>>>>>I have this weird thing inside me that revolts against the idea I have to bow down to one man.<<<<<<<<

That is probably how Rush feels about Obama, hence the "I want him to fail" turd in the "Let's give him a chance and hope he succeeds" ball washing punchbowl.

How hard is it to say,"Rush speaks for himself 15 hours a week. He does not represent the GOP or myself. If you have any questions about things he says I would suggest you call his show or contact his staff and arrange an interview. In the meantime the Presidents policies are a disaster abroad and at home. In a few short weeks he has insulted the British, and the Russians, thrown the Soviet break away republics under the bus and driven the Dow into the ground like a railroad spike. And you want to talk about what some guy said on his radio show. Might I suggest this explains your declining viewership?"


Limbaugh fans, does anybody have an issue with the above statement?

182

Who cares what Newt Gingrich thinks? He hasn't done anything meaningful in 15 years. The only reason he has a voice now is because of the sufferance of Limbaugh and Hannity. He was an insufferable but effective prick as a Speaker. And I salute him for that. So what? Who the fuck wants Newt Gingrich on the hustings for him? Nobody.

Let it go, Ace. 

183 Ace, c'mon. Rush is in the business of building his listener base.

Newt is the one apparently thinking of running for office, who'll be wanting all those Rush voters to cast a ballot for him.

Newt called Rush irrational, and Rush defended himself.

And you're going after Rush? Really?

184 Just reply :"I don't want to see socialism enacted here either."  Period.

Then the debate has to be whether or not Obama is enacting socialism.

Win.

Getting baited into an internecine war is just playing into what the White House and the MSM want. 

Don't do it, Republicans.

185 Damn, Ace, your last word is like Mercutio's death.  It just keeps dragging on.

186 13 Ace, why do you keep buying Obama's and the mainstream media's characterization of what Rush Limbaugh said? By the way, I'm not a Rush fan -- don't listen to his show, rarely pay attention to anything he or his supporters say. I think that I have to say that lest I be tarred with the brush of "Rush cultist" or whatever.

As for Newt Gingrich, I don't like him, never did. I don't care what he thinks about things.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at March 09, 2009 07:28 PM (vLf8O)

You aren't alone in your opinion. I haven't listened to 10 minutes of RL during my lifetime and I really dislike opportunists like NG.

187 "Fuck Newt"

I'm on board, have been for awhile.

188 Newt thinks he Sista Soulja his way back into elected politics.  Good luck with that, Newt.

189 "People in elective politics"

Like Frum, Newt, Brooks etc?

These people are not in elective politics--they are on the Georgetown Cocktail circuit and THAT'S what they want to protect.

Newt ceased being Newt about 1989.

190 This is a bad day at any schoolyard with several 5th grade girls going at it as to who is the prettiest and most popular.  Meanwhile, the school bully is stealing everyone's lunch money and beating the crap out of the weaklings.

This shit better stop - the dems gotta be loving it.  Steele, Rush, Newt, and any others need to man up and leave their egos at the door.

191 "Does it ever occur to anyone that the reason the Democrats want to tie Republicans to Limbaugh is because they know he isn't very popular with non-movement conservatives?"

Sure, but here's the thing:  who is an effective conservative commenter who won't get savaged by the MSM and the non-MSM Left?  Who is it?

I think some of us are just concerned about what this conservative movement that's better off without Rush Limbaugh is supposed to look like.

192 "business of elective politics keep trying to distance themselves from this statement."

The poll numbers of most people in elective politics are in the toilet because THEY don't speak for us anymore.  Rush's popularity, however, is much better because he DOES relate to us. 

Ya need us to draw you a fucking map? 

193 Is this what it is like to watch a man turn into David Brooks?

194 "Limbaugh fans, does anybody have an issue with the above statement?"


Nope.


Although, secretly, Rush does speak for me.

195 I'm not really interested enough to look up what Rush and Newt are saying about each other, but I do think it's funny how pissed off people are getting about it.

None of this matters much.  Regardless of what we do, Plan Obama is gonna run its course for a while.  We lost the election, and the public is gonna give the Democrats a lot of leeway for the time being.  That's just the f'n way it is.

So, given that this is all irrelevant, the wise course of action would be for everyone to relax.  But of course, what fun would that be?

So on that note, you're all a bunch of morons.  Ace and Allahpundit's mild criticisms of Rush, whether or not you agree with them, do not mean they're OK with our crappy Republican leadership and their inability to get our message out or repudiate left-wing smears, you f'n idiots.  I don't like the way Rush's words were twisted either, but I don't see what comprehension problem you fools are having.  Jeez, Louise!

Oops, I meant to be more polite about this.  Damn, there I went and ruined party unity.  We're DOOMED!

196 Rush really isn't forced to respond to each of these guys' attempts to deal with the headaches he caused.

Rush didn't cause the headaches. The Dems' willful twisting of his words are what are caused the headaches. And the headaches turn to a migraines when people on our side who know the truth, won't stand up for it.

Enough already.

197 Geez Ace, who pissed in your Cheerios?
All of you need to put your dicks back in your pants.
Let. It. Go.

198 Maybe Limbaugh's shit doesn't play with the moderates. But I cannot believe that he is so reviled that insulting the man is necessary to get moderate support. And even if it is, does it make up for what you lose by pissing off the most loyal fanbase in the history of talk radio? If this is what it takes to win, then we are well and truly fucked anyhow.

199 What caused......@#$!

200

Newt could have handled this so much better --  instead of the commentary about "irrational", what if he'd just laughed it off and said, "well, you know, this is a free country and everyone, including Rush, is entitled to an opinion...I believe some liberal commentators are rushing to judgement (yes, pun intended on my part) thinking this was a direct attack on the president's person, when in reality is was an attack on his policies, which...blah, blah..." and then he could've gone for the Dem neck with: "it seems to me some members of the Dem party and this administration are very anxious to make sure people pay more attention to this dust up with Rush rather than... (and then just go through the freaking damn list).

As for Rush, perhaps someone needs to remind him to keep his focus on the progressive Dems.

I'm not a fan of either one of these fellows, but that imho would be the best thing to do -- as it stands, be prepared for a Dem controlled congress through '10 and an Obama re-election (and no, I'm not all happy joy-joy over that, but the Republicans and conservatives all the way down the line are seriously fubar with the way they're acting/talking -- like an above post said: this CinC and Congress are offering up gravy, and the Repubs/conservatives are pissing in it before they ladle it on their own meat and taters).

 

 

 

201 #181

Carl, Amen.

202 Fuck it.Just throw Rush under the bus and be done with it.It's not as if we don't have countless other media allies to fill the vacuum.....

203

DrewM at March 09, 2009 08:12 PM (hlYel)

 

You right lets continue to act like the party of bush.  you the man that people hate.  If the rep party becomes the party of Rush it will be a step up from the party of bush in the majority of Americian eyes.  Do you understand that? the poll showed Rush the second man not the first.  The man with the most dislikes was Bush.  so this effort to make the party stay moderate like Bush is stupid beyond stupid.

 

204 "Is this what it is like to watch a man turn into David Brooks?"

LOL


It all started when Ace hung out with (and it makes me puke when he writes it) "Hitch" and his visit to CPAC.

205

>>>181 Limbaugh fans, does anybody have an issue with the above statement?<<<

Works for me. What I cannot stand is those in the Republican party who cannot or will not stand up and say this Emperor not only has on no clothes, but is mooning us while he gets on the job training.

 

206 "Damn, Ace, your last word is like Mercutio's death.  It just keeps dragging on."

Hahaha!  Awesome!  Ace of Spades HQ is edumacational, too!  We're learning about Shakespeare!

207 It's all about sellin books.

208 Sure, but here's the thing:  who is an effective conservative commenter who won't get savaged by the MSM and the non-MSM Left?

Sure but we need to be more concerned with getting effective conservative elected officials than commentators. The fact of the matter is we won't get them if every conservative politician in America is seen by non-movement types as a clone or pawn of Limbaugh (or what the average American thinks Limbaugh is).

209 All this Rush vs. Newt vs. whoever just shows that no cohesive GOP leadership has appeared. Nature abhors a vacuum, as does blogs needing traffic.
This ain't surprising since the GOP in Congress probably thought they had the luxury of time with Obama, and governors are governing
Noise and nonsense until Summer of 2010..

210 Screw you guys, I'm going home.

211 And my only reason for discussing this at all is because Rush's ego is causing him to TEAR DOWN EVERY FUCKING OTHER SPOKESMAN WE HAVE.


Come on Ace... Newt's a spokesman?
In case you haven't caught on in this thread... Newt's about as popular as Herpes and that's with Republicans.
I'm seriously wondering if Newt is being a useful idiot here. How could a politician / skilled spokesman not be able to flip this question on the asker?

212 bunny boy@126,

It's a shame you had to spell it out like that, bb, but that's where we are, apparently.


I like Newt, Ace, except that the global warming bit with Pelosi was transparent, opportunistic bullshit politicizing that runs contrary to conservative analysis. Also, his time as titular head came and went. He had "Contract with America" gift wrapped via voter frustration and Ross Perot, and he failed to carry through. It was a vehicle for electoral control that yielded not much more than power, which is fine, but ultimately unsatisfying because so much more should have been done. A wasted opportunity under his watch.

Yes, Newt's an idea man and his wonkiness is terribly useful most of the time. However, he took a cheap shot at Limbaugh that was unneccesary. Someone with his immense political skills (even when he is occasionally wrong) shouldn't make them... unless he really believes Rush "irrational" and it wasn't a mistake as much as it was maneuvering for political gain he hopes to parlay into a Presidential campaign as he is wont to do (or tease to do) to maintain relevance. In the latter case, he's a fool.

213 Newt and Steele aren't going out there and actively trying to assault Limbaugh...they are being tied to it and put on the spot in media interviews because it hurts the GOP.

Newt didn't hold a press conference to denounce Rush...Steele isn't running ads against Rush...the were asked questions to keep the story going by the always classy and bi-partisan folks in the media...

214 I loves the boy, but it turns out Ace is doing the work of the White House Machine.

I call for a show trial and self-criticism session...

215

You mean, like OJ in the Naked Gun.

More apropos.

I knew Newt was a weasel when he started with his "laptop for everybody" bullshit.

216 Ayn Rand's term was "socalled conservatives."

217 "Title Changed: Newt Gingrich is a Whiny Liberal Sell-Out Media Cocksucker and I Hereby Denounce Him."


Thanks, Ace. That's how it should be.

218 Rush didn't cause the headaches.

Sure he did. Saying "I hope he fails" was a great thing for a radio host to say and the kiss of death for anyone who wants to be elected in America.

You may get the nuance or you may flat out agree with it as is but the fact is that that sentiment will poll at about 9% in the public.  People are scared and angry, they simply want it to be better. They aren't impressed with a person wishing failure upon the guy, for better or worse, who is seen as the one responsible for making it better.

219 Sounds good @181.

220 Ace is right! We need to say screw Rush and get down on the AGW bandwagon with Newt! Like Frum and Brooks who knew enough to vote for Obama,,,,or like Steele who recognizes that the GOP is "an elephant mired down in it's own muck" that needs to learn to express ourselves Hip-Hoppily!

Unitil we recognize the evil in our souls, how can we become reborn statists?

221 Good for Rush.  If he didn't defend himself every damn lowlife nobody would be coming out taking shots at him.  Look what happened to Bush because he never defended himself against the lies and slander.


Thank you sir!

222 Jesus. Tap dancing. Christ.

The last I checked this was Ace Of Spades HQ. And the last 5 of 6 posts on this topic were posted by Ace of Ace of Spades HQ.

You own the site, man. You control the content! If you want people to let this go or if you can't agree to disagree with the rest of us, how about you STOP POSTING ON THE SUBJECT!!!!!

For fuck's sake, this is way past ridiculous. This site is starting to feel like HA; which I stopped frequenting because of that asshole AP who constantly posts up stuff like this to whore out for web traffic then looks down his nose at everyone who doesn't agree with him.

This was my favorite political site until we started with this bullshit. Please, for the love of God and all that is holy, stop posting on the subject and move the fuck on, Ace.

223 Now everyone go out and tell everyone you know that Ace called Newt a cocksucker. He should have been more prudent but, well you know, it's all about entertainment.

224 Don't worry Allah, everytime I see a blog item with your name on it I skip over it completely.  Please remove your dick from your mouth and put it back in your pants. Play time is over.

225 " I have this weird thing inside me that revolts against the idea I have to bow down to one man."

Uh yeah, you have that weird thing inside of you and you alone, because it's not from anything anyone has said here.

I'll just say it would be nice to have another conservative spokesperson besides Rush Limbaugh to talk about that I could be sure was against Obama's awful policies, but so far all we get are "politicos" like Steele and Gingrich, who give the impression that they hang around the White House all day hoping to get acknowledged by the big O: "Did he look at me? OMG, I think he saw me! Squee!"

226 I saw all I had to in order to know what Newt was like when he went on TV standing by Hillary Clinton touting health care reform.

Saying "I hope he fails" was a great thing for a radio host to say and the kiss of death for anyone who wants to be elected in America.

Not hardly. Good lord, the Democrats went around saying they wanted President Bush to fail from every conceivable venue they could find, do you really think that hurt them??

227 I loves the boy, but it turns out Ace is doing the work of the White House Machine.

So wait, this was all a White House-orchestrated plot from the get-go?  The deuce you say!

However, I distance myself from your insufficiently-qualified insinuation that Ace's participation in this was anything but incidental.  You can't say things like that, they're divisive!

228 I really used to like Newt but he's definitely on the fast track to losing Presidential candidate via the Maverick Express Route.  Both are wrong, they should have stayed true to themselves instead of chasing votes, it's about personality and timing running for president.

229 #141

+1. I had to read all down the thread to find the comment that said what I felt. Yours was it. Thx homie.

Now where we gonna go when Ace takes the ball away and won't let us play here anymore? When he turns it into a site where you upload your own porn videos or some shit?

Ok...cool. I'll still be here too. Uploading some gnarly Viking pron.

230 Gingrich needs to read that book - "he's just not that into you" and replace the he with "electorate" because that gasbag still thinks he has a shot at the presidency.

231 How could a politician / skilled spokesman not be able to flip this question on the asker?

That's the root of a lot of this frustration, really.  Why can't guys like Newt or Steele accomplish this relatively simple task?  Countless morons on this blog have posted sample statements that would be acceptable to every one of us.

If they could do this, then these debates we're having here would be mostly academic and not so filled with a sense of anger and betrayal.

232 It's good for traffic too.

233 230 Gingrich needs to read that book - "he's just not that into you" and replace the he with "electorate" because that gasbag still thinks he has a shot at the presidency.

I think Gingrich could be forgiven for thinking that he has a chance at the presidency after the country elected an inexperienced, radical community organizer with ties to terrorists. Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog could be forgiven for thinking he has a chance.

234

Axelrod is playing this well...

He's creating a nice divide between the libtards and conservatives.

He knew that assholes like Frum and Dreherhere would slime Rush...

This all of a sudden happened out of the blue?

Sure.

235 I love it when someone says Rush should have expressed himself more clearly.

Only an addled liberal could have misconstrued Rush's plain and simple meaning.

It is so hypocritical for the left to accuse Rush of hoping that Obama will fail and thereby collapse the U.S., which failure has been the hope and dream of radical liberals for the last 75 years.

This ruckus about Rush is an intentional distraction from the noise and chaos of establishment of the socialist infrastructure.

Where, oh where, is an impeccable, strong-willed true conservative to counter this liberal onslaught?

We will not forget Newt turning the corner and running to the middle.

Isn't it noteworthy that when Reagan followed Carter, the country leaned right to follow Reagan rather than Reagan leaning left to win election?

Amazing that Newt the erstwhile historian would forget how Reagan won election. Twice.

Simple principles will win in 2012: unleash the economy by fostering entrepreneurship through less regulation, permits, fees, and taxes; preserve our safety at home and if absolutely necessary, abroad as well; reduce and de-centralize government. And don't fall into the no-win trap of debating the pros and cons of the liberal agenda.

Lest anyone forget, in the 1500's the world's super-power was Spain, which went broke fighting Islam abroad so Spain would not have to fight Islam at home. Sound familiar? It's only been 500 well-documented years since Spain fell and failed to recover. How can a federal goverment with $Trillions at its disposal repeat the same errors?

236

Something I find interesting. You want to talk about divisive? Forget Rush.

Increasingly and increasingly I'm seeing what appears to be fiscal con's rewriting Ayn Rand back into the movement.

That's the point we've gotten to.

I for one, welcome her ghost back, as it never should have been expelled.

But you wanna talk about "doesn't play well in peoria"? "The love of money is the root of all good" doesn't play well in peoria.

237 I think I am getting close the metaphore what we are doing to ou=r selves whil Obama and dhimocrats are doing it to our country.

I just need a little help with the imagery.

We are developing something avoids all of the positive aspects and maximises all of the negative aspects of combining a circular firing squad with a circle jerk.

I'm gonna go see what pearls sullivan.............hhhhmmmm .......
Ace of   Spades,
Andrew Sullivan.

Coincidence?
I wonder........

238 MrsPaulsFishSticks is making me hungry for fish.

Insert knife, twist, withdraw.  Rinse and repeat.

Hehe.

239 I'm tired of arguing -- you win. Rush is the only spokesman in the party who matters. The only one.

Nice strawman, Ace. Really.

240 @231

Exactly.


Ace should be pounding these guys for being so inarticulate, Considering one is the spokesman for the RNC and one of them is a "conservative" talking head.

241 I remember the time Dad tried to teach me to throw a football.

And I couldn't.

And I told him I'd rather wear pretty things in my hair.

Yes, I remember that day well.

242 Rush is right about Newt.  He has taken contradictory positions when it has suited him.  His support of the global warming crap was a slap, and if people think back he was doing robo calls for McCain/Kennedy (amnesty) too.  Then he saw the outrage and backed off on it, although his criticism was vague.

Since leaving office he has disappointed me on many occasions.  Rush is also right about politicians, they don't seem to have core values, they are willing to compromise their beliefs based on how the wind is blowing.  Again, I don't see Rush as being the one in the wrong here.

243

<checking in>

<sees the morons still enthusiatically being morons>

<sees the Ozombie infection still spreading>

sigh.

<checking out>

 

244 Here's the thing Ace, if you choose to believe what Rush said was, "a politically troublesome statement" that's on you, not Rush.  He was very clear in his meaning when he made that statement.  We ran the medias favorite candidate and I still don't like the taste in my mouth.  We've played by some bullshit set of rules we've made for ourselves because we don't want to go down the same road the Dems go down.  No more.  I'm not saying we be disingenuous, but we no longer concede every fucking point. I love this site and lurked for God knows how long now, but for fucksake, read your banner and let's hoist the fucking flag already. 

245 Andrea,

For the Love of God, Newt does little else but put down Obama's policies. His pac is opposed to every obama policy.

But in the course of dealing with the media he gets asked, of course, about Rush's provocative comment.

He answers. And you act as if that's all Newt is doing, just runnin' round the country, puttin' down Rush.

Again: If you think Newt could have phrased his answer better, why is no one allowed to say Rush could have phrased his answer better?

246 Is there someone I can bribe, extort, or kill to put this controversy to an end?

247 But you wanna talk about "doesn't play well in peoria"? "The love of money is the root of all good" doesn't play well in peoria.

So wait, out-of-context sound bites that one might otherwise agree with if they bothered to get the rest of the context might be misconstrued in a negative light?

Wow, I'm learnering so much tonight!

248

Gingrich may be an intellectual of sorts but he will never be elected to anything on a national ticket. He is not media friendly with those hard shifty eyes and he has a female hostile background. Rush will also never be on any ticket since it would be counter productive for him and his investors( mostly himself), and his chance of getting a majority is 10'-89 (sorry for the poor math symbols). To me the problem is commitment to something. Gingrich is a wonk. He had one shining moment, for which he deserves great credit, but it was not really all his. As Napoleon said, to paraphrase, to do well in battle one needs good fortune and a stupid enemy. Clinton provided all the perquisites for him in '92. Who remembers what was in the "Contract With America"?  I've been imbibing some, I admit, but I can't. Yes he is committed to some ideology but  what ever it is  changes a lot depending on the crisis to be addressed or exploited. He is indeed a real politician. At least Rush, who really  has a high order of intellect, has some straightforward ( maybe simplistic but always cleverly thought out) ideas which are easy to grasp, can be debated well, and are reproducible crisis to crisis. In that sense he has more in common with the sainted RR( but not much else as I am sure he would admit). Stability of purpose is so important today. The stupid general is Obama, since he can't grasp this point, although his supporters like Buffet do. I give Rush the prize now. Maybe some one will come along and revive the GOP, and I hope he or she does, but for now there is no fog on the mirror.

 

249 "This site is starting to feel like HA; which I stopped frequenting because of that asshole AP who constantly posts up stuff like this to whore out for web traffic then looks down his nose at everyone who doesn't agree with him."

DING!!   We have a winner.

250 Ace....

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Hell no!

I rest my case.

251 Scary.  Sullivan has some stuff worth reading.

252 Tons of lurkers appear to be coming out of the woodwork with this Rush business.

253 >>Nice strawman, Ace. Really.

Man, I HATE that phrase.

254 But you wanna talk about "doesn't play well in peoria"? "The love of money is the root of all good" doesn't play well in peoria.

Is Peoria in America still?

255

Again: If you think Newt could have phrased his answer better, why is no one allowed to say Rush could have phrased his answer better?

Because Rush's statement, artful or not, helpful or not, wasn't a direct violation of the 11th commandment.

Rush didn't say "I hope Newty fails".

256 If you think Newt could have phrased his answer better, why is no one allowed to say Rush could have phrased his answer better?

If Rush can be called out for a comment you consider badly-phrased, why can't Newt?

257 Call me crazy, but something tells me that axlerod and his minions are laughing with glee because we keep fighting amongst ourselves and can't get our act together to fight the dems.

The dems will twist anything a "percieved" leader of the GOP says to benefit the dems. If we distance ourselves from the "percieved" leader, we look weak, if we stand up for him, we're mean bigoted people. We are stuck between a rock and hard place.

For the record, I want obama to fail to enact his socialist policies on this country. If that makes me a bigot. Bite me.

258

He is a sonofabitch from a'way baaaack! 

Irrational?  Remember his "whither on the vine" comment about medicare? Why look at all the seniors who rely on medicare?  Did he not consider that as medicare withered its seniors would whither too?

What a good-for-nothing woodchuck!

Remember how he was miffed because B-cup Bill didn't talk to him on some jaunt they traveled together on?  What a sonofabitch! 

Libs never do this to one another.  Never, and in the end you have to admire that.

Newt is unelectable:

1)  His arousal gap cannot be closed.

2)  He's smart but he's never been smart enough to not be glib.

3)  He's dead to me, and I bet he's dead to a lot of other people too. 

Frum was never alive to me; he always looked like a fucking mortician!  Does he wear a piece?  Reason I ask is that his hiarline begins in the middle of the top of his head.

Ace, I don't know you.  I've only posted here a few times, but I've lurked for a long time and you've always struck me as an honest man.  Your take on Rush was honest.  And I'm so burned out on the topic, but the reason it was so important to remember that he was and is family is because he would never do what Newt and Frum did.  He's a better man by a very large factor.

I'm a sick at heart at the debased condition of the Country.  I was just a wee thing when I disembarked at NY in '58.

Thompson should have been our President because he didn't really want it.

I hate these Fucking People like poison.

259 Ace,

What do you think Limbaugh should have said?

260

In other news....

No shit?!

Newt...a sell-out?

You must be joking.

Not Neeewwt.

Not the new and improved global-warming endorsing Newt?

Is this news to anyone else, because I am

SHOCKED!

261 >>>He was very clear in his meaning when he made that statement.

No he wasn't. His statement -- including the full quote -- can be read either way.

And you guys have this odd habit of ignoring the powerful evidence that even Rush SUPPORTERS claim he meant the "bad version" (and they endorse that).

People will say in these VERY THREADS "you're damn right, he wants the economy to not recover; it's the only way to stop socialism," but you'll just keep on ignoring that powerful evidence and say it's "very clear" what he meant.

No, it's not. And I don't even give a rat's ass whether he meant the "good version" or the "bad version." And quite frankly -- half of you know damn well he meant the bad version and you support that, and I myself can't get all indignant about the "bad version," because it has occurred to me too.

But let's stop this bullshit spin that it's "very clear" what he meant. It's not. And most of you know it, but won't admit it, because, I don't know, you don't want to allow the MSM a quote or something.

I don't care whether he meant the good version or the bad version. All I care about is that the bad version is bad politics for our elected representatives, and Rush should not be insisting that people pay him fealty, but release them to distance themselves so that they can win elections.

262

in real life i'm the I.T. dept. for domestic violence shelter, needless to say i am surrounded everyday by bed-wetting, tree-hugging liberals, just today one of the tree-huggiest of them came to me and out of the blue said " i wish Obama had never said anything about Rush Limbaugh" after i picked my jaw up off the ground, i asked her why she said that and she said "because it's getting all the neo-cons (she thinks we're all neo-cons) fired up and that's bad for us"

does that mean anything? i don't know but it's the first crack i've detected in their O-worship

263 Is it too much to ask for a talking head who doesn't concede to the Democrats? It's not hard. They're not that smart. Okay, fine. Keep blaming Rush Limbaugh.

264 There were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a Trident.

265 I didn't think he was a bad person or anything even if he meant "the bad version."

But now that he is fucking hurting my party with this egotistical demand that everyone line up behind his statement, now I'm really starting to get pissed off.

266 "Again: If you think Newt could have phrased his answer better, why is no one allowed to say Rush could have phrased his answer better?"


Because only liberals and MSM willfully turned Rush's word into something they were not.


Newt willingly made statements that could not be and wouldn't be confused by the MSM. Can you see the difference?

267

So wait, out-of-context sound bites that one might otherwise agree with if they bothered to get the rest of the context might be misconstrued in a negative light?

Well... uhh... yes, actually.

Which is why I said she shouldn't have been thrown under the bus to begin with! Thou shalt not criticize Ayn Rand.

William F. Buckley and Whittaker Chambers are Whiny Liberal Sell-Out Media Cocksuckers And I Hearby Denounce Them.

268 i before e except after c Ginger.....annoying eh? hehe

269

Does it ever occur to anyone that the reason the Democrats want to tie Republicans to Limbaugh is because they know he isn't very popular with non-movement conservatives?

Given that that is likely true, why exactly are we determined to hug him even closer?

We can still be just as conservative but we don't have to make a radio host the face of a political movement. They are two very different jobs and require very different skill sets. Is that so revolutionary or heretical notion?

Rush has been around how long now?  Sure, he's not popular with some, but how often do you really hear someone say "I'd really like to vote for the Republican candidate, but I won't because I don't like Rush."?

And again- this would've gone away almost before it started if the likes of Steele and Newt were more diplomatic about it and evasively distanced themselves from something specific Rush said rather than try to belittle the man himself.  They played right into the Democrat's hands by turning a non-issue into a controversy.

270

The difference between the Left and the Right is that they shape opinion while we react to it.

As long as we keep doing this we will fail.

271 Is there someone I can bribe, extort, or kill to put this controversy to an end?

I'll throw in a fifty into the pot.

272 Is it too much to ask for a talking head who doesn't concede to the Democrats? It's not hard. They're not that smart. Okay, fine. Keep blaming Rush Limbaugh.

See, this dichotomy right here is why everybody is so pissed off.

Either you want good spokespeople or you have some complaints about Rush.  Not both, right?

273 Ace,

Late to the thread and will likely kill it, as usual.

And, because of the intensity of the moment, I will de-cloak and comment.

Yes, and no.

Yes, it would seem that it would serve Rush's professed interests to "move on," but like Ms. Coulter, Rush is an entertainer first ( and tireless self-promoter), and he knows on which side the bread is buttered.

You cannot forget that.

El RushBo is worth somewhere North of $300 Million not because he thinks of others first, and God Bless him for his success.

And no, this does play well in Peoria. Currently, I am less than 40 minutes from Peoria and Peoria is Rush, as noted above.

As for the Republicans, they are feckless, witless, and rudderless. That three senators could have voted with the Democrats is simply unconscionable. The Republicans deserve every defeat they suffer, and America deserves the government they elected.

That no one wants America to fail is fairly clear to conservatives, they don't need additional explanation. That liberals and others on the Left do want to see America humbles, reformed, recast, etc. also should go without explanation, but the projection of the Left and their mighty media appendages are keen and highly skilled at blaming McChimpy HalliNazi, or whomever is the "boogey man" du jour.

Ace, my brother, your ire and upset are sadly wasted.

The problem is one of messaging. The Democrats have mastered it in the form of "framing." The Republicans can't convince their own to support them.

Things will only worsen, until they get better.

This must unfold, and it will.

And yes, I too, hope that Barack Hussein Obama II fails, but I don't wish America to fail.

See, it's not that hard.

Just sayin'.

274 I'm sure Rush has been asked about Newt's global warming crap, but you didn't hear an attack from him.

Of course, in Ace's world Rush would've been in the wrong to openly attack Newt.  In fact, I have to wonder if there is anyway, short of never speaking, that Rush could ever be in the right with some people.

275

So when are we going to get a conservative blog?  Ace seems to have gone rouge on us lately

276

First time reading the comments on this site.

Ace of Spades HQ: The McLaughlin Group with swearing.

(And no having to look at ugly old Elanore Clift.)

277

More important here...

Am I the only one lmao at the sight of Bob Beckel and Victoria Jackson serving on the same Hannity panel tonight?

278 "What do you think Limbaugh should have said?"

To be honest, I don't even MIND his fucking statement as said -- AS LONG AS HE STOPPED INSISTING ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DEFEND HIM ON IT.

That's where his shit fucks up MY shit.

He can say whatever the fuck he likes. When he starts hurting the chances of GOP Reps and Senators by demanding they put yet ANOTHER millstone around their necks, that's when I get pissed off.

I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT HE SAID OR WHAT HE MEANT.

What is pissing me off is his egotistical demand that politicians -- who have to be "nice" and shit -- basically repeat his shock-statement.

279 " Rush should not be insisting that people pay him fealty."

Rush never asked that idiot Steele to apologize. Pressure from the masses made Steele do it.

Rush never stated he wants an apology from anyone, ever.

280

Okay, fine. Keep blaming Rush Limbaugh.

Hmm. Doesn't that indeed make him the leader of our party?

I mean if he's already replaced "It's Bush's fault!"...

281 This shows the limitations of the interwebs, yes?  In person; there would be a few exchanges, and then a beer (or 5) hoisted, and a well, "screw the media anyway", and then on to serious topics like celebrating steak and "Barney Frank" day.  'Cause isn't this really what this is all about? (Not the BJ thing).  IF there were a level playing field for the exchange of ideas, then the Marquees of Queensberry rules would be fine.  But the playing field is anything but level and we know it.  Our message is completely distorted or ignored.  Conservatives playing by the rules was known as the Bush administration.  Ace, how frustrated were you when he just wouldn't punch back over ANYTHING?  How about the attorneys general?  Weren't you screaming at him to just say "screw you guys, I'll fire 'em all!".  I think thats what this is....Rush says I want the President to fail in implementing his policies.  The media runs screaming off and distorts it, and get Republicans to not defend, explain, or amplify it.  There is a lot of chin stroking, then concern over how impolitic everything is.
  What I am looking for is for our guys to get up, shake the dust off, and THROW A FREAKING PUNCH!  We have to break through the noise.  Every conservative that appears on a TV show or radio or whatever should be saying "...hell yes, I want Obama to fail.  This country and this way of life NEEDS him to fail. And without giving the talking head time to butt in, start listing the reasons why.
I've spent too much time in foreign countries, away from my family, taking the fighting the bad guys and grooming the good guys to watch this amazing country to go quietly down the drain.
With a whimper.
Because we WONT fight back.

282 "To be honest, I don't even MIND his fucking statement as said -- AS LONG AS HE STOPPED INSISTING ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DEFEND HIM ON IT. "

When did he insist on this?

283

Ace of Spades HQ: The McLaughlin Group with swearing.

Hah!

Funny because it's true.

284
Newt has been a turd in the punch bowl for the last few years; this isn't new ground we're treading on.

I'll forever be grateful to Speaker Gingrich from saving us from a full-blown Clinton admin, (heh heh), but what has he done for us lately? Fuck 'im.

285

Gingrich is clearly done with politics.  He's more interested in dinner parties and Obama reach-arounds.

286 Is there someone I can bribe, extort, or kill to put this controversy to an end?

We're happy to help, but it won't be cheap.

287

What is pissing me off is his egotistical demand that politicians -- who have to be "nice" and shit -- basically repeat his shock-statement.

Really?

I'm going to need a link to that quote.

288 The McLaughlin Group with swearing.

...and with Valu-Rite Vodka and hobo killing.

289 #276: 

"Ace of Spades HQ: The McLaughlin Group with swearing."

Scotch came out my nose.  Damn.

290 >>To be honest, I don't even MIND his fucking statement as said -- AS LONG AS HE STOPPED INSISTING ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DEFEND HIM ON IT.

When did this happen? I missed it.

291 "Again: If you think Newt could have phrased his answer better, why is no one allowed to say Rush could have phrased his answer better?" 

Simple; Rush is the inflammatory radio host informing the conservative crowd while providing conservative commentary. He's not supposed to pander. Newt is the smooth speaking politician. He is supposed to be the master of unifying words that bring truth to light and bring reason to extremism and encourage others to see where Democrats are leading us the wrong way and bring conservatives and moderates to a common frame that socialism and our current direction, is wrong; and that our current administration is not just wrong, but completely wrongheaded about where the solutions lies.

292

For all the people that thought Palin was stupid.  At least she knows enough to keep her piehole shut.  I have not heard Palin say rush does not speak for her.  These so-called conservatives are trying to do the same thing to rush as they did to Palin and tried to do to Jindal.  And people like Ace are helping they with the digging.  Fuck that.  We are at war why shoot at each other there is rich target environment on the otherside.

rush lives by the 11th comandment.  He carried the water for Bush for 8 long hard years.  If not for rush Bush would have lost in 2004.

293 Ace you really are turning into a whiner.  Gingrich serves no purpose anymore, in fact he is a great example of why we have failed as a party.  He allowed the left to run him out of town.  Then he starts agreeing with them on some of their asinine policies based on some BS polls and it gets him nowhere.  So he is still hated by the left yet now the right wingers now realize he has sold out and cannot be trusted.  Rush calls him on that and you piss and moan on Newt's behalf.  Does that sum it up?

294 >>>When did he insist on this?

Last fucking month. A Rep had to apologize because Rush blew up at him for saying something like, "Of course I don't want the country to fail under Obama, that's crazy."

And also see:

Steele, Michael

Gingrich, Newt

If people don't apologize, they get the wrath of Limbaugh's listenership.

295 Ace, please stop shouting statements ( in capitals ) that aren't true. For God's sake you sound like Andy Sullivan.

296 Ken--

Cool. Who else can we get rid of?

Apparently we're so loaded with talent and popular support we can have ourselves a good purge.

297 "If people don't apologize, they get the wrath of Limbaugh's listenership."

Not the same as getting it from Rush. Come on.

298 "This site is starting to feel like HA."

Come on, no it's not.  Ace has a huge account filled with good will and intellectual integrity.  If we disagree sometimes, even fundamentally, there's still plenty of good stuff left over in the account.

He's earned that.  This is a great blog and usually my first and last stop on teh Interwebs.

299 Just saw the Wolverine movie trailer, looks really weak.

300 For God's sake you sound like Andy Sullivan.

If it's all the same to you, I'm going to go ahead and preemptively denounce your inflammatory language here.

301

Ken at March 09, 2009 08:47 PM

yeap pretty much.  some reps have battered wife syndrome it appears.

302 "Of course I don't want the country to fail under Obama, that's crazy."


Ace, you do realize that if a rep said this he sounds like a complete idiot because that isn't even close to what Rush said.
He should be called out. If I had heard it, I would have got in the Reps face...up and until I would have gotten arrested.

303 The other thing that cracks me up is that Ace is one of the most irreverent bloggers there are (which is why I liked him), he calls people on both sides every name in the book yet he is now whining about a couple of mild rebukes coming from Limbaugh?  Have you lost all perspective and self awareness?  Has Allah inhabited your body?

304 One thing that has become apparent from this kerfuffle:  none of the party leadership ever listens to Rush.  They really have no clue what he says or how he says it even though he's done it, day after day and week after week, for more than 2 decades. 





And what's with the sudden formality Mr Of Spades?

305 Hey, I've said a nasty things in my day, and on this topic in fact.  But could we stop saying that Ace has turned into a commie.  He's been a huge plus, to pretend otherwise is silly.  So we disagree, big deal.  It's been known to happen.

Note, I want to be taken as a serious person so I'm not extending this past Ace (and DrewM. or Russ).

306

Gee, imagine Rush taking it personally when the head of the GOP, who once appeared his show, called him/his show vile.

 

307 >Who else can we get rid of?

Oo! I have an idea - let's just blow it up and start over. Or something.

It isn't like there are serious problems this Uhbama Street Gang is inflicting on the nation.

308

 Kensington at March 09, 2009 08:49 PM (90mpl)

 

some days I think Ace and Allah are the same person.  they do do enough reach arounds for each other at times it isn't out of the question to think that .

309 Right on MikeB.

310 Well I for one am fucking sick to death of weak ass republicans fucking apologizing. The fucking left never ever ever fucking apologizes for anything. They can have one of their own get caught pistol whipping an underage chick with a hardon on the fucking senate floor and ALL..ALL will get behind the motherfucker. Every fucking last one of them are like the frigging borg tied into a collective, their words are all identical, like some ass sucking communist has his hand up all their asses making their lips move. You see how their talking points are, all the same fucking dried up brainless crap, but it NEVER changes. We have been hearing the same fucking worn out crap for 30 years. They say their crap over and over until people start believing it. The left has not a free thinker among them, but what they do have is a message that never fucking changes and NOBODY ever fucking apologizes for it.

Why did the republicans lose congress at a time when unemployement was under 5% and there was like 60 months of steady growth? Because the fucking left  took every little thing done by any republican and blew it way the fuck out of proportion. They created the illusion of crises, they talked down an economy that was chugging along good, and tar and feathered every fucking republican they could at every turn untill they started resigning one by one. Did the repubs circle the wagon? Did they say you know what, fuck you leftist cocksuckers and throw up all the crap their members do? They targeted fowley for a fucking email right before the election, yet barney frank is still there. Ted kennedy kills a chick and he is still there 40 fucking years later and gets fucking knighted to boot. Need I go on?

Face it, half the politicians on the right are gutless fucking turds who let the left use them as a doormat and it has to fucking stop, and screw the ones tossing the other half under the bus.


 "This  president is pursuing a marxist ideology and must fail in turning the USA into a marxist haven"". That has to be repeated  in a way people understand it, and it has to repeated often,  the point needs to be driven home, and stop frigging apologisng for it.

311 You people sound like babies. Why can't we discuss this issue without a bunch of middle children yelling, "make mommy and daddy stop fighting." It's a discussion, we disagree, so what?

312 This site is in no way Hot Air. Ace doesn't demand we all agree with him or think it's some sort of attack on his manhood and even seems to relish a good argument unlike the zombies at Hot Air.

Besides. Cockholster.

313 Ace , have yourself a BIG bowl of valium with milk on it and get some sleep.  This is NOT worth it.  It has become petty and out of control.  I've had it with this bullshit.  Goodnight.

314 I don't care whether he meant the good version or the bad version. All I care about is that the bad version is bad politics for our elected representatives, and Rush should not be insisting that people pay him fealty, but release them to distance themselves so that they can win elections.

OK, let me break this down.  Rush says controversial thing.  Politician denounces controversial thing because stupid media will frame it in an unpopular light.  Politician also heaps ad hominem on top of Limbaugh.  Limbaugh responds.  Good for politician, right?  Bad cop's gotta be a bad cop.

Remember '94: OKC was blamed on Limbaugh.  He was in much worse shape then and how did that work out?

Let's face it, Ace.  Newt is the first "elected official" to bite on this.  This is the purview of Frum and Steele who, along with Newt, could not help the ad hominem.  Rush is not the one calling names here.

Here's the deal: Obama's succeeding now.  How's that workin' out for America?  If the GOP is going to make any comeback at all, they need to be on record having said, "Uh, we were against that, you know."

You must understand that even if the economy comes back (and Obama himself says it'll be over a year) every economist says it'll come back with a truckload of inflation, not to mention the huge national debt and myriad other problems.  There is no downside opposing this -- Obama owns it all.  He isn't Tinkerbell, we don't have to believe in him for him to survive.

He's the fucking President of the United States, why are we treating him like a sensitive 6-year-old?

315 Ace - Do you really think that people on the right lost respect for Newt because RUSH said something about him just recently?  Not the case.  He has been pissing us off for years.

316 Sure, he's not popular with some, but how often do you really hear someone say "I'd really like to vote for the Republican candidate, but I won't because I don't like Rush."?

No but people base their decisions on a lot of things. For most part people who don't pay a lot of attention to politics base their decision on feelings and incomplete information. The more Republicans are thought to be the party of 'the people who want the guy trying to help me fail' (Obama), they will pay a price.

Look, this will all sort itself out when Obama's policies fail (and they will) and people will see that for themselves. But for the moment, there's no upside to being seen hoping Obama fails. Opposing his policies because they won't work? Yes. Offering alternatives? Yes? Hoping the guy who won fails at the perceived expense of the nation? Nope. That's suicidal in the real world of politics.

Right now the only people who benefit from this shit are Rush and Obama. It doesn't help Eric Cantor (a noted Jew), Mike Pence or Jeff Sessions accumulate real power. If conservative politicians like those guys can improve their standing in the wider population by distancing themselves from Rush, more power to them.

317 all we get are "politicos" like Steele and Gingrich, who give the impression that they hang around the White House all day hoping to get acknowledged by the big O

Too right.  The same things happens when Republicans go on political talk shows: they spend the entire time trying to give the answers the host wants and seem "reasonable" (like David Brooks) so that the host will like them.  They fail to realize that even if they are sufficiently critical of other Republicans to win media approval, that approval is contingent on continued criticism of Republicans.  McCain spent his career becoming the media's favorite Republican and that bought him exactly nothing when he ran for president.  The media's favorite Republican will always run a distant second to any Democrat.
The problem with what Steele and Newt did wasn't that they dared to criticize Rush, but that they did it on command.

318 This site is in no way Hot Air. Ace doesn't demand we all agree with him or think it's some sort of attack on his manhood and even seems to relish a good argument unlike the zombies at Hot Air.

Yeah.  Agreeing with me is an absolute prerequisite at HA.  Especially the people who call me a "moron" regularly.

319 Rush demands that they stand by his statement?

When?

Maybe he just doesn't like being called ugly and irrational. That is the sort of name calling that is likely to provoke a response from pretty much anyone.

320 "some days I think Ace and Allah are the same person.  they do do enough reach arounds for each other at times it isn't out of the question to think that."

Those days are few and far between.  Do what I do:  blame Allah when they happen.  It's fun.

321 >>>Gee, imagine Rush taking it personally when the head of the GOP, who once appeared his show, called him/his show vile.

He seems to take a lot of things personally.

Good thing it turns out that the constant morning-zoo radio food fights with GOPers is good for his ratings.

Gee, I wonder if it's good for the GOP's ratings? You know where I the dial I can find the GOP radio station?

322 carl!

#181 is PERFECT.   I can't improve on it at all.

Perhaps you should fax it to Newt, Steele, and various congressmen.

323 Why can't we discuss this issue without a bunch of middle children yelling, "make mommy and daddy stop fighting."

And besides, how does this help Michelle Obama's children?

324 Ace and Allah are dancing to the White House flute.

325 " AS LONG AS HE STOPPED INSISTING ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DEFEND HIM ON IT. "


Ace, be honest.--this isn't about "not defending" Rus, it was abut attacking him gratuitously They said he was "ugly and divisive" (Steele) and he was "irrational" (Gingrich) or that like Frum said "With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence "

326 Ace,
  Come on already! How the hell do you even equate Rush and Newt to begin with? Why should they speak the same? Rush is there to take the hits, put the shit out that nobody wants to say and knock down who pops up, he's a personality not a politician. Same with Ann, that's why people love/hate em so much. Newt wants to be President someday, he was Speaker of the House. Unless he wants to announce he's giving up politics and starting his own show he shouldn't be putting down anybody on the right, not even Ron Paul never mind Rush, not personally anyway. It's only to appear Centrist anyway, nobody buys it.  Nobody is going to vote against a Republican because of Rush any more then they voted against Obama because of the View. The only reason this is even on the table is because the Right's personalities actually have brains and an audience.



 

327 Kensington @ 298

God, I hope not. I'm more of a moron-lurker than a moron-poster, but I read this blog daily and it's usually my first and last stop as well.

But for the past week we've gotten Ace and co. tsk-tsk-ing everyone for disagreeing with their position, screaming at us that we all need to just let it go and move on; yet post after post shows up on this same topic for a week straight, with Ace himself feeding the drama by continuing to argue in the comments, again while telling us all we need to just let it go. Like I said, that's the crap that they pull over at HA to try and drum up traffic to the site and I stopped going there because of it.

I just want it to stop and go back to being the AoSHQ I know and love.

328 I love Ace's site exactly because we can discuss this crap and move it around in our own minds. What I hate is the "can't we all just get along" crap.

No, we can't. Why? Because we don't share one brain, thank God. If we did that would make us liberals.

329 Someone has to say it.  Entropy is the best poster here.

330 "To be honest, I don't even MIND his fucking statement as said -- AS LONG AS HE STOPPED INSISTING ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DEFEND HIM ON IT."

So, your goal now Ace is to pretty much distort anything Rush said in order to convince us you're right?  Cuz, you're looking like a damned fool.

331 >>>And what's with the sudden formality Mr Of Spades?

Oh, it was a leftover part of a psuedonym I used before, the Ace of Spades Neo-Obscenity Research Department, which was considering the use of the term "Holy Fuckbuckets."

I've changed it back.

332
Hey MTT, what up?

Haven't seen you in a while. Still a homo, I see. Just kidding, hahaha.

If my memory serves me, weren't you catching a lot of shit in these comment section back in September/October for predicting the obvious: McCain is going to lose?

Well, you were right! And it looks like we're going to repeat the same mistakes and compromise our principles with gutless, clueless moderate leaders/nominees. This thread is proof that we'll never learn from our mistakes.

We need leaders and spokespeople who share our core values and are not afraid to articulate our positions without watering it down or making it politically correct. Political correctness = Democrat-speak. GOPers should not be talking like Democrats.

333 Yeah.  Agreeing with me is an absolute prerequisite at HA.  Especially the people who call me a "moron" regularly.

Pffft.  Moron.

334 Epic troll.. nicely done Ace! 9/10

335 I don't, for one, understand the AllahP hate. It sure beats the predictable tut-tutting and GOP cheerleading from Ed. I wish he stayed at CQ and AP posted more, actually.

One hobokiller's opinion.

336

Now, Allah, you can't possibly misunderstand the meaning of 'moron' with this crowd.

We say it with luv.

337

Again: If you think Newt could have phrased his answer better, why is no one allowed to say Rush could have phrased his answer better?

On reason is that Rush's comment was offered on a live radio broadcast over a month ago, while Newt had a week to prepare for a question he was sure to be asked.

338 Rush has been around how long now?  Sure, he's not popular with some, but how often do you really hear someone say "I'd really like to vote for the Republican candidate, but I won't because I don't like Rush."?

I think this is a really good point.  Even if one were to stipulate that Limbaugh is somehow poisonous, the GOP has still managed to win half of the presidential elections and most of the congressional elections since his show went national in 1988.

And remember, this is a guy who made his bones on the air doing caller abortions.  His show was a lot more provocative in the early days.  He's a relative pussycat nowadays.

339 A little more important thing is going on right now than Rush v. Newt.  North Korea is talking shit, and the Chinese are moving to create more chaos in the south china seas.  How about a post on the disastrous results of Hillary's Asia trip?

China said a U.S. naval vessel was conducting illegal surveying off its southern island of Hainan, a Hong Kong television website reported on Tuesday, after the Pentagon said Chinese ships had harassed the vessel in international waters.

Global oil prices rose 3 percent on Monday, partly driven by market concerns over tensions between the world's top oil consumers.

The United States on Monday urged China to observe international maritime rules after the Pentagon said five Chinese ships, including a naval vessel, harassed a U.S. Navy ship in international waters.

The Chinese vessels "shadowed and aggressively maneuvered in dangerously close proximity" to the USNS Impeccable, an unarmed ocean surveillance vessel, on Sunday, with one ship coming within 25 feet, a U.S. Defense Department statement said.

An unnamed spokesman from the Chinese embassy in Washington denied the Chinese ships had violated maritime rules, and said U.S. ships had been conducting illegal surveying, the website of Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television (news.ifeng.com) reported.

"The U.S. claim about operating in high seas is out of step with the facts," the report quoted the spokesman as saying. "The U.S. navy vessel concerned has been consistently conducting illegal surveying in China's special economic zone," the station quoted the spokesman as saying.

"China believes this contravenes international laws of the sea and China's relevant laws."

Chinese authorities had "repeatedly used diplomatic channels to demand that the U.S. side cease unlawful activities in China's special economic zone," the report added.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry was unavailable for comment.

340
298 and 305:

No doubt. Calling Ace a sellout/bastard/commie/pooner/Frum-esque/whatever is rather silly. This will pass. We'll know soon enough if Rush is right, and we'll move on.

341

He seems to take a lot of things personally.

Good thing it turns out that the constant morning-zoo radio food fights with GOPers is good for his ratings.

And you seem to be benefitting from the increased blog traffic that these kinds of posts result in.

Good thing, huh?

I mean...that must be your motivation, right?

342 Again: If you think Newt could have phrased his answer better, why is no one allowed to say Rush could have phrased his answer better?

OK.

Rush Limbaugh could have phrased his answer better to take control of the debate away from the Democrats and place them on the defensive.

Michael Steele could have phrased his answer better to take control of the debate away from the Democrats and place them on the defensive.

Jeff Goldstein at Protein Wisdom could have phrased his answer better to take control of the debate away from the Democrats and place them on the defensive.

Newt Gingrich could have phrased his answer better to take control of the debate away from the Democrats and place them on the defensive.

Ace, Gabe, DrewM, Nice Deb, JackStraw, et al at AOSHq could have phrased their answers better to take control of the debate away from the Democrats and place them on the defensive.

[Fill in fucking name of your choice here] at [wherever the fuck it was said] could have phrased [his/her/their] answer better to take control of the debate away from the Democrats and place them on the defensive.

Did I miss anyone?  Sure?  Good.

COULD WE PLEASE FOR THE UNQUESTIONING LOVE OF JESUS AND ALL THAT IS HONEST AND FOR TRUE START, A NEW POST ABOUT ONE THING THAT'S SPECIFICALLY WRONG ABOUT THE ONE'S™ PLAN, COME UP WITH A RESPONSE THAT TAKE'S CONTROL OF THE DEBATE AWAY FROM THE DEMOCRATS AND PLACES THEM ON THE DEFENSIVE, THEN GO ONTO THE NEXT THING?

_{(With a little Pron on side)}

Or are we going to just piss, moan gnash teeth, pull hair and look for someone wounded to stab?

It's your move now, Ace.

343 Rocks,

You make my point for me. Since Rush is allowed to say things Newt isn't, why does Rush caterwaul when Newt says his statement is "irrational"?

Why isn't he enough of a fucking mensch to say "Yeah, I get why he says that. I'll Let it pass"?

You're knocking me for knocking Rush -- but you know my problem? Fucking Rush won't stop attacking the GOP.

And not over substantive matters like spending -- over egotistical bullshit like who's saying mean things about him.

344 Seriously though, with his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of the Ace o' Spades lifestyle.

345 some days I think Ace and Allah are the same person.

Ace might have a little bit of Allah in him, but only on alternate nights.

346 Wait a second, if Allah is here, who's typing "obligatory", "nuance" and "heartache" every third word over at HA?

347 Epic troll.. nicely done Ace! 9/10

SON of a B...

348 Yeah.  Agreeing with me is an absolute prerequisite at HA.  Especially the people who call me a "moron" regularly.

Posted by: Allah at March 09, 2009 08:54 PM (wsk0o)

Moron is a term of endearment. They don't call you cocksucker do they?

Someone has to say it.  Entropy is the best poster here.

Posted by: yambles at March 09, 2009 08:58 PM (PLAPA)

Now this site has gone to hell or maybe Entropy.

349 So, which of Rush's ideas, positions or policies "don't play in Peoria?"

75% of those who have a negative opinion of Rush have never listened to Rush and don't have any idea what he says--except as filtered and distorted by the MSM. And here we have a golden opportunity to explain who Rush is and what he believes free of that filter and the default response of 100% of our "leaders" is to attack . . . Rush?

WTF?

Media whore moderate ain't no way to win elections but, I guess we need to get our ass kicked in 2010 and 2012 just to make sure . . . .

See, we tried the "be nice, try to make 50+1 happy" approach to election success since 2000, and now we lost everything--maybe we can, oh I don't know, go back to what actually works? Or we can try the be nice approach just one more time . . .

350 "Fucking Rush won't stop attacking the GOP."




Well SOMEBODY really needs to get laid.

351 Oh, and I don't know why anybody's getting upset over this.  It's manufactured.  Give it 3 months.  Nobody except the hard left is going to blame any failures on an inability to sufficiently believe in Obama.

In fact, nobody will remember this at all.  Somebody will kidnap Americans in the meantime.

Or Obama will have a panic attack on live TV.  Something much more entertaining, in any case.

352 Newt Gingrich.

Nancy Reagan.

Olympia Snowe.

Susan Collins.

Arlen Specter.

David Brooks.

David Frum.

Peggy Noonan.

Kathleen Parker.

Colin Powell.

Bill Kristol.

John McCain.

George Will.

353 LOL ACE  Feeling better now??  I know, me 2. Newt always talked a good game but..........

354

What is pissing me off is his egotistical demand that politicians -- who have to be "nice" and shit -- basically repeat his shock-statement.

You make it sound like they either had to defend and defend his statement, or go after him- in a personal way no less.  Not the case- otherwise we'd be seeing prominent Democrats bashing Micheal Moore every day.

Had they phrased it diplomatically such as the following, there would be no controversy:

"Look, Rush is his own man and I'm not going to get in a lengthy discussion critiqueing every little thing he says; that's a discussion between himself and his listeners."

"No one wants effort by the President or anyone else to revive the economy to fail; however there are fundamental disagreements on how best to accomplish that task, and it would be irresponsible not to oppose those efforts which we believe will do more harm than good.  When it comes to tax hikes, massive increases in the deficit and choking off our energy supplies that our economy relies on, we intend to offer better alternatives to revive the economic situation."

355 278 "What do you think Limbaugh should have said?"

To be honest, I don't even MIND his fucking statement as said -- AS LONG AS HE STOPPED INSISTING ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DEFEND HIM ON IT.

That's where his shit fucks up MY shit.

He can say whatever the fuck he likes. When he starts hurting the chances of GOP Reps and Senators by demanding they put yet ANOTHER millstone around their necks, that's when I get pissed off.

I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT HE SAID OR WHAT HE MEANT.

What is pissing me off is his egotistical demand that politicians -- who have to be "nice" and shit -- basically repeat his shock-statement.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at March 09, 2009 08:44 PM (gEsIJ)

I'd have to second this motion.

356 A side note ... Obama sure managed to separate himself from Wright, Ayers, Alinsky, and many actually believed he was a moderate ... but then he had the media helping him in the deception.

Hopefully a conservative won't have to be as dishonest, but he may have to be able to avoid little sound bite gems like this one, and also avoid alienating the base.  Pretty tricky ...

I don't listen to Rush so really don't have an opinion on what has happened in this whole exchange ...

357 Goddamn, Hollowpoint, quit being so sensible and rational.  People will get the wrong idea about this place.

358 "Why isn't he enough of a fucking mensch to say "Yeah, I get why he says that. I'll Let it pass"?

Because Newt is a douche and should be called out regularly when he says stupid crap. He should have been flogged for that commercial with Pelosi.

Ace, conservatives are not like liberals. We are thinkers. When we hear things that we know are false, silly embarrassing or irrational we'll call that person out. Is it right? Well, we're discussing that now. But I will never go along to get along. That's one of the things that makes me different from the hordes of nonthinking Obama lovers.

359 Allah-

Your place has become a pc echo choir. On most sites, reading the comments is half the enjoyment, they often are as illuminating and insightful as the posts. Often, more.

Your site has become so pc predictable that has become a bore. Ed will write something and the usual suspects will come out to coo and stroke him. You post something, with your usual passive-aggressive taunting and the usuals will come out to give you shit. Well they won't say shit because that will get them banned.

Here, we get to kick the shit out of each other on a daily basis, even with no no words, and we some how seem to have much more thoughtful and insightful discussions. You do your thing and we will do ours.

You're a smart guy. Almost as smart as you think you are.

360

Is this entire debate accomplishing anything other than Axelrod's designated purpose of getting us to eat our own? We have more pressing matters at hand than this silliness...

 

361 I love Ace AND Rush.  They'd be even better together.  Pundit fleshpile.  Yum.

362 353 Newt Gingrich.  Nancy Reagan.  ...  John McCain.  George Will.

We're going to need more tar and feathers

363 Anyone else besides me who hasn't had enough of this three-way monkey shit fight?
The fact that Howard Deans says we need to stop is all I need to know that we need to keep going.
I say we keep thrashing around in this urinal until somebody rises up out of the rancid pool of piss and is declared the winner.

364 Can we talk about LACE WIGS or sumtin?

365 "But for the past week we've gotten Ace and co. tsk-tsk-ing everyone for disagreeing with their position, screaming at us..."

To be fair, Ace has taken a lot more guff than I probably could.  It's hard not to be somewhat defensive when you get an avalanche of criticism, whether or not your in the right, and particularly from people who are normally on your side.

It happens.  It'll all work out.  I, for one, am itching to get back to ripping our catastrophe of a POTUS the new one his petulant Marxist ass so clearly deserves.

366
C'mon Ace, Rush is no baby. Rush doesn't whine and he wasn't whining today.

If you listened to his show today, it was mostly about the leadership (or absence of leadership) in the Republican party. Rush made a point and Newt's comments helped make the point.

367 The GOP sucks, they need attacking. They're aimless without vision, they don't stand for anything, they don't offer leadership or ideas, and they keep supporting the weakest, most pathetic leaders. Until the GOP can get its act together I strongly advise they stop pointing fingers at other people. It's not Rush Limbaugh's fault that the GOP is a hapless batch of spine-lacking losers.

368

 Nobody except the hard left is going to blame any failures on an inability to sufficiently believe in Obama.

Nope.

They're gonna blaim it on Rush Limbaugh's continued acceptance into mainstream American discourse.

If only we had told the bigots to shut up, it would have been all unicorns and skittles... but the greedy, fat, rich, drug-addled sex fiends smoking cigars in back rooms wouldn't have any of that.

That bloated bastard and his Dominican stogies single handedly bankrupt the National Health & Life Preservation Agency with his insurance premium.

"I don't believe in excercise" he said, and children starved.

369 Why isn't he enough of a fucking mensch to say "Yeah, I get why he says that. I'll Let it pass"?

So you expect more of Rush than of Newt?

You're knocking me for knocking Rush -- but you know my problem? Fucking Rush won't stop attacking the GOP.

Uh, yeah.  Well, maybe.  If David Frum et al. are the GOP.  I'll accept your premise on that, but at least he didn't get columnspace in Newsweek to do it.

370

Ace of Spades my ass. More like Queen of Hearts.

Fuck, just admit you made an ass out of yourself and move on before you become Andrew Sullivan's Evil Twin.

371 I rarely post here but this is too fucking much. Honestly I am glad this whole debate,if you want to call it that, is happening because it shows me who will fight and who will not fight if someone on the right says something controversial. The Ace, Allah, Brooks, Frum, attention whore faction will fold like a house when it comes to fighting the Left/MSM. At least now I know that all of the tough talk on this site is just bluster and should be taken with a grain of salt. Because god forbid if someone says something controversial and taken out of contex,t the posters on this site will start screaming like a chorus of boiling lobsters. Maybe Pajamas Media is entertaining offers from Newsweek to be bought out and all these PJM whores are gonna need jobs after the buy out.

372 Me, too Kensington. Me, too.

373

The point here is that our stupid fucking GOP "leaders" think that the American public are "thinkers".  They are not. The average voter is a stupid, ignorant, mouth breathing, hand out taking, fool.  Our side goes on these fucking shows thinking, "my opinion matters" and "the people will remember". Both of these are false.

They are also so scared of the fucking sound bite turned 30 sec commercial, that they won't say anything negative.  They know that our side doesn't have the balls, or money, to run any half false, negative ads, to rebut the shit from the left.

They act like a bunch of cock addicts needing a fix.  They will say anything to get the stage.

 

374 love Ace AND Rush. They'd be even better together. Pundit fleshpile. Yum.

Naw, Ace already said "Fucking Rush isn't going to stop attacks on the GOP" or something like that.

375 Rush is a fucking moron (not in the unintelligent sense, but in the dumbass is just being self-serving sense) for wording his statement the way he did.  He knew exactly what he was doing and he chose his words purposefully to exact maximum attention within the MSM at the expense of the Republican party (whatever the hell that means anymore).

The fact that no conservative or Republican politician that gets MSM facetime is taking a lead on driving this stupid story into the ground and moving on is a perfect example of the lack of leadership, strategy, and direction within this clusterfuck of a party.  I wouldn't be suprised if the Democrats get even more seats in 2010.

Someone better grab the fucking helm and turn this albatross addled ship around!

376 No he wasn't. His statement -- including the full quote -- can be read either way.

Okay. here's the statement:

I’ve been listening to Barack Obama for a year-and-a-half. I know what his politics are. I know what his plans are, as he has stated them. I don’t want them to succeed.

If I wanted Obama to succeed, I’d be happy the Republicans have laid down. And I would be encouraging Republicans to lay down and support him. Look, what he’s talking about is the absorption of as much of the private sector by the US government as possible, from the banking business, to the mortgage industry, the automobile business, to health care. I do not want the government in charge of all of these things. I don’t want this to work. So I’m thinking of replying to the guy, “Okay, I’ll send you a response, but I don’t need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails.” (interruption) What are you laughing at? See, here’s the point. Everybody thinks it’s outrageous to say. Look, even my staff, “Oh, you can’t do that.” Why not? Why is it any different, what’s new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what’s gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don’t care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: “Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails.” Somebody’s gotta say it.

What's unclear about that?

377 What Rush Said About Steele and the RNC:

Yes, said Michael Steele, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, I’m incendiary, and yes, it’s ugly. Michael Steele, you are head of the RNC. You are not head of the Republican Party. Tens of millions of conservatives and Republicans have nothing to do with the RNC and right now they want nothing to do with it, and when you call them, asking them for money, they hang up on you. I hope that changes. I hope the RNC will get its act together…

It seems to me that it’s Michael Steele who is off to a shaky start….

Now, Mr. Steele, if it is your position as the chairman of the Republican National Committee that you want a left wing Democrat president and a left wing Democrat Congress to succeed in advancing their agenda, if it’s your position that you want President Obama and Speaker Pelosi and Senate leader Harry Reid to succeed with their massive spending and taxing and nationalization plans, I think you have some explaining to do.

Why are you running the Republican Party? Why do you claim you lead the Republican Party when you seem obsessed with seeing to it that President Obama succeeds? I frankly am stunned that the chairman of the Republican National Committee endorses such an agenda…

I don’t understand why you’re asking Republicans to donate to the Republican National Committee if their money is going to be spent furthering the agenda of Barack Obama? If we don’t want Obama and Reid and Pelosi to fail, then why does the RNC exist, Mr. Steele? Why are you even raising money?…

I’m not in charge of the Republican Party, and I don’t want to be. I would be embarrassed to say that I’m in charge of the Republican Party in a sad-sack state that it’s in. If I were chairman of the Republican Party, given the state that it’s in, I would quit. I might get out the hari-kari knife because I would have presided over a failure that is embarrassing to the Republicans and conservatives who have supported it and invested in it all these years…

When you send those fundraising requests out, Mr. Steele, make sure you say, we — we — we want Obama to succeed. So people understand your compassion. Republicans, conservatives are sick and tired of being talked down to, sick and tired of being lectured to. And until you show some understanding and respect for who they are, you’re going to have a tough time rebuilding your party.

378

cock addicts

Fuck!  Should have said coke addicts.

Still thinking of the steak and BJ  party I'm throwing my man.

379

I dunno, enough people are seeing the market tank big time...and also seeing Barry sit around with his head shoved up Aunt Esther's teleprompter...

That is immediate, unfiltered information, Axeldouche can't spin that shit, although I don't think they really want to try, for some reason.

380 Emanuel and Axelrod have got to be giddy!  "We don't have to say shite about the Cons.  Just throw some chum in the water and they'll eat their young!"

381 "Moron is a term of endearment. They don't call you cocksucker do they?"

Ha ha!  "Cocksucker" probably won't get past the moderation software.  It's "oddball" or nothing.

382 Not sure what happened to the Contract with America Newt I used ti know. He gave up his conservative card when he did the sellout commercial with Pelosi. he's dead to us now.

383 #277

jmflynny...That has to have been one of the most hilarious panels I have seen.  Bob Beckel didn't know what to do when Victoria said in that little girl voice that "Fox is the only channel that tells the truth" adn "Obama is a communist."   All with that silly bow on top of her head.  It was great!

384 For the record:

When all this shit is over with - and it will be, someday - I'll still love this place.

Despite disagreement with a point of how the party should proceed, I still believe I share Ace's core values.  And even Patterico's.  Maybe not Allah's; but I can tolerate him even if my lack of a vagina denies me full empathy with him.

So fuck your divisive tactics, Axelrod.  We're united in agreeing that you're a little bitch.

385 Ace,

I feel your pain.

You believe that Rush is fucking up your shit.

He is.

And he's not.

The problem is one of discipline.

The Republicans have no leadership. There is no one around whom to rally. That is why the Democrats so easily pin Rush with the "Leader" of the GOP tag.

Your shit is that the GOP is shit. Tell me, who is the leader of the GOP?

McCain? Not a chance.

McConnell? Cantor (Jew)? Sessions? Kyl?

Tell me, who is the fucking leader of the GOP?

They got nothing because they are nothing. It's a shark-infested, bloody, feeding frenzy of a circular firing squad.

If you want Rush to stop fucking up your shit, get your shit together. Find a leader for the GOP, and craft a fucking message that people can understand.

The sad truth is that Sarah Palin is a terrific politician and she electrified the GOP base. Yet she was torpedoed by her own party as much as by the Liberal and Media establishment.

Shame on them. And shame on you, my brother.

Again, Rush is a tireless self-promoter who often, but not always, speaks for, as opposed to, to the GOP. He has mastered the language of the conservatives, and like it or not, they respond overwhelming to him.

Don't fuck with the brand, unless you got something better.

And right now, the GOP has got nothing.

Just sayin', again.

386 Thank you, Entropy.

387 Ace,
 You make my point for me. Since Rush is allowed to say things Newt isn't, why does Rush caterwaul when Newt says his statement is "irrational"?

Because Rush caterwauls for a living, especially about himself. Does Rush let anything said about him pass? Good or bad? Why would he start now?

Why isn't he enough of a fucking mensch to say "Yeah, I get why he says that. I'll Let it pass"?

Who's going to sit through 3 commercials to hear that? And what do you do with the other 30 minutes he needs to fill that hour?

You're knocking me for knocking Rush -- but you know my problem? Fucking Rush won't stop attacking the GOP.

I'm not knocking you for knocking Rush. Rush is a brick wall. I'm knocking you for taking up Obama's invitation to knock your head against a brick wall. As a moron I admit I found it entertaining for awhile but now you are getting loopy.

And not over substantive matters like spending -- over egotistical bullshit like who's saying mean things about him.

Is there something that matters more to Rush?
Newt is supposed to be above that shit, or at least pretend to be if he actually thinks he's going to be President someday.

Rush is a 2 edge sword, just be glad he likes swinging left most of the time and don't draw his attention.

Nobody has to apologise to Rush or kiss his ring as far as I'm concerned but only a fool thinks he will be the first to shutup.

388 347 Wait a second, if Allah is here, who's typing "obligatory", "nuance" and "heartache" every third word over at HA?


Posted by: counter at March 09, 2009 09:02 PM (SL3qo)

HAHAHA. Manchurian Blogger.

389
By the way, I'm the leader of the Republican party. You're the leader of the Republican party. We're all leaders of the Republican party.

And that should be the answer anytime it's asked by the dinks in the MSM -- We're all leaders in the Republican party. We have many voices but we share the same core conservative principles.

Newt and Steele are too gutless or too stupid or too egotistical to say that, though. Instead they puss put and hem & haw and do a song & dance about not wanting Obama to fail...meanwhile Obama is destroying the United States with his asinine policies.

390 Okay, everyone, there's been way too much trash talking on this thread....time to clean your computer screens.

391 Wow, a first. Gabriel Malor made my point for me.


Rush rocks.

392 "So you expect more of Rush than of Newt?"

Lets bear in mind, also, that Newt is only slightly more viable as a candidate for elective office than Rush at this point.

393 @ 381

You nailed it. This clusterfuck roils on, and Axelrod giggles with the sweaty mirth of a pedophile charged with minding the children while the parents enjoy a night out.

394 "Not sure what happened to the Contract with America Newt I used ti know."

He was so busy being super scary booksmart that he never bothered to learn the inconvenient truth that some movies are full of lies.

395 Damn it! I've had enough of this crap. Rush, Steele, Gingrich... GO TO YOUR ROOMS! You are all grounded and confined to your rooms without dinner until you learn to act like adults!

Now, enough with discussing boobs. I believe we were talking about tits.

396 And yes, I'm with Mare and all the others who are pro-Rush and have naught but contempt for spineless conservatives who won't second him heartily. Rush says nothing that should cause any true conservative and patriot to be ashamed.

Dittos!

397

I'm waiting for Carl #181 to stab Rush in the back next week.  Until then, I can't be bothered to talk about anything else.

398 "The more Republicans are thought to be the party of 'the people who want the guy trying to help me fail' (Obama), they will pay a price."

You see, DrewM, that's the problem. Republican party leadership going after the sort of people who think Obama is going to "help" them while ignoring the loyal conservative base, taking them for granted. It's kind of like the millionaire dumping his first wife, who helped him make his business a success, for the gold-digging whore with fake boobs. Who doctors his morning coffee with arsenic until he croaks and she inherits the millions and absconds to Brazil with the cute houseboy before the cops can get her. And the first wife? She's lucky if she can afford to live in a studio in a crack neighborhood.

The Republican base -- many of whom are Rush Limbaugh fans -- is like that first wife. And you're saying, DrewM, that you're okay with the way the first wife was treated, because she had aged, lost her looks, wouldn't get a plastic surgery and dye her hair, and didn't want to party all the time. You're okay with the rich husband dumping her for the cool-kid moderate gold-digging whore, who will betray him for the cute Democrat houseboy the first chance she gets. Excuse me if I don't think that's a "winning" scenario.

399 400!

400 I'm tired of arguing -- you win. Rush is the only spokesman in the party who matters. The only one.

So it's about your egos, big media bloggers?

Looking at this mess disgusts me. 

Obama's approval rating is slowly declining, and we've lost focus when we should be hammering his agenda with one loud voice.

Why not take a page from Barry's book and yell "distraction!" every time someone brings up Rush?  You guys are pussy ass betas allowing your frame to be dominated.  The Obamedia is playing frame games and you are getting stepped on.

If you don't projects strength and confidence, you may as well pack it in, because the best ideas will not get a hearing without it.

So stop getting knocked around.  The best defense is a good offense.

401 That's fucking pathetic.

402

Newt is a fat backstabber who has been stabbing republicans in the back for years. Now he is in bed with the Democrats pushing global warming and big government. Face it, he was a remarkably ineffective legistlator who never accomplished most of what he set out to do with the Contract, who showed serious lapses in ethical judgement and who was was hounded from office by his embarrassed colleagues.

Barry Goldwater was right: "Newt talks too much."

403 You know what?  If George Bush had supported Pat Toomey instead of Arlen Specter, the porkulus would not have passed.

I want each and every one of you to ponder that.  The leader of the Republican Party, the President, supported a man who spends his time consorting with liberals.

And he was the deciding vote in the Senate when Porkulus Day came.

Tell me again why I shouldn't support the absolute destruction of the Republican party so a REAL party can be built upon its ashes?  I mean, what the hell is the point of winning elections if we're just gonna enact the left's agenda?

404 Newt is a media whore, has always been a media whore, and he would say anything/support anyone to get television time.  His worst fear is that he may no longer be relevant.

Which, yeah, he's totally irrelevant.

405 Why do we still have the same assholes on TV that we had in 1989 representing conservatives?

406

Goddamn, Hollowpoint, quit being so sensible and rational.  People will get the wrong idea about this place.

Yeah, switching between blogs fucks my shit up.

Let me rephrase in a more AoSHQ appropriate manner:

Mr. Steele and Mr. Gingrich:  When a woman is giving you a blowjob, never, ever smack her in the head and tell her she's fucking it up- even if she's doing it wrong.  Better to be subtle than to get your cock bitten off.

407 Yeah, not sure how any of this works. If Rush "doesn't play in Peoria" then denouncing him is good politics. Hurray for Newt and the Republican Party. What's the problem here?

If Rush is accepting a stipend from the Republican Party, I imagine the Republicans would have cause to bitch about him getting after Steele and Gingrich. He isn't. Let the leader of the party step up and denounce him in no uncertain terms. It's good politics right?

408 By the way, I'm the leader of the Republican party. You're the leader of the Republican party. We're all leaders of the Republican party. And that should be the answer anytime it's asked by the dinks in the MSM -- We're all leaders in the Republican party. We have many voices but we share the same core conservative principles.

Spot on.

409 Ace is just trying to make a point about electoral politics, hardly worthy of the vast array of tweaking there is above.

Centrists and independents dont like Rush for the most part, perhaps 60-70% have a negative view depending on the poll.  Accordingly, as national GOP politicians who might want to win an election or something know, getting 51% while being wedded to a 30-35% (at best) approved media figure (Rush) is a difficult trick indeed.

Especially considering the media is happy to run with Operation Rushbo out of the White House to try to tar the GOP with Rush and perhaps get Obama a win in 10 elections and reelected on a platform of "The GOP is racist sexist homophobes like Rush"  --- does anyone really not understand this is the point of Operation Rushbo?

410 The problem is that there is no rationale conservative leader in the republican party, so you end up with the rejects from the JV fighting over dominance.

Rush and Ann are powerhouses of opinion and expression, but that doesn't make them leaders, and the kids weren't good enough to Letter in Badminton are stirring up shit, allowing the media, to control the story.

411 Pooter.

Didn't anyone notice that I said pooter?

Pooooooter.

POOTER!!

412 http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=14494#comment-671829

413

#361

it's really brought the whole base vs leadership thing out in the open.

the base loves Sarah Palin

the base loves Rush

and Saun, and Mark, and Laura, and dare i say it  _{glenn beck}

the leadership seems to hate on these guys every opportunity they get

we ain't having it

414 Meanwhile, you guys missed a great "24." Except for the pro-global warming PSAs, which Newt would appreciate.

415 Does anyone know if dailykos, du or huffpo people have these type of arguments about michael moore or rosie o'donnell? I would look myself but I can't bring myself to to go to those places.

Here's a silver lining. At least we are showing that we aren't sheeple blindly following our leader.

416 Ace,

And for the record, I don't listen to Rush.

I think he's boring; not funny, and insufferable.

My objections are not about Rush, but about the GOP.

And as I have made very clear before, I am not a Republican, nor a Democrat.

I am a Reaganite. (Whateverthehell that means.)

There is no longer a conservative leadership.

Too bad.

417 Posted by: Andrea Harris at March 09, 2009 09:19 PM (vLf8O)

No, what I'm saying is that neither party's base is enough to elect a President or win majorities in Congress. Those idiots who think Obama is going to help them (and they are idiots) are the people who decide elections for the most part (outside of very safe congressional districts or deep red/blue states in the Senate).

Someone once asked famous bank robber Willie Sutton why he robbed banks. His answer was, 'that's where the money is'. It's the same thing with these non-political, mushy types. They are where elections are won or lost. You don't change your core beliefs to get them but you don't piss on their leg either in some sort of display of authenticity.

418 141 Exactly.

419 This is nuts! We are becoming the butt of every MSM and leftie joke.Is this what we want? if so, Axelrod has won and deserves to win because we are too stupid to take advantage of the golden oppurtunities awarded to us by this incompentent administration. Instead we spend all our time and effots on in-fighting.

420

Sure but we need to be more concerned with getting effective conservative elected officials than commentators.

Somewhere, a horse is desperately chasing the cart that's outrunning him.

I guess once we get all those conservatives elected to office by some stroke of happy magic, then we can worry about building up our media presence.  I can't wait! -giggle-

Sure he did. Saying "I hope he fails" was a great thing for a radio host to say and the kiss of death for anyone who wants to be elected in America.

So, given that all of the statements immediately surrounding that one would completely change the context of "I hope he fails", what you're really arguing is that every single word and sentence must be carefully crafted, because no opportunity for post-mortem nuance will be afforded.  And it's batshit crazy to expect those few conservatives who do have a media megaphone to provide any no matter how easily that task could be accomplished.

I sure hope Rush doesn't give any monologues in which the "n" word can be fashioned by pulling individual letters out of randomly selected words.  Because then he -- and the entire party he apparently commands -- are done for.

It's unbelievable watching you guys cling to the same tactics that have led us to this ideological abyss rather than aggressively adopt the tactics of our enemies.  I can't believe I'm reading a thread in which Ace and a cadre of his luminaries are actually arguing that fucking politicians can't be expected to be political in their distancing of a remark that they feel hurts them politically.

Nay, they claim, it is up to the fucking radio host whose ratings have increased markedly because of this whole incident to behave politically and excuse the incompetent dick-stomping and fire-stoking stupidity (IDSAFSS) of our so-called professional politicians.

But dumbass RINOs like Steele, sleazy has-been opportunists like Gingrich, and possible pedophiles like Brooks have to be excused for their IDSAFSS because some of Ace's readers have been giving him a hard time!  It's like apples and apples, baby!

How pathetic.  What the fuck is wrong with you?

421

dems are liberals who pretend to be moderates to get elected.

 

Reps are moderates who pretend to be conservative to get elected.

This whole pissing match is that the GOP "leaders" are tired of pretending.  

422 What we need right now is di-version....

I say Ginger gets nekkid.

423 Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter @ 410

to echo the point Andrea Harris also expresses in the thread, how many Republicans do you see winning contests without that 30%?

424 "The Republican Party has no leader."

Yes it does.  George Bush is our leader until a real candidate steps forward and leads.  George is silent, though, leaving us idiots to bitch and moan about all the people who have let us down over the years (see #353's list of downers).

Do you remember the period early on when Reagan was fighting the Democrat Congress tooth and nail over balancing the Federal budget?  Even he gave up and settled for "you get yours and I get mine (Star Wars)."  I remember it well.

425 OT, Octomom bought a 500,000 dollar house in California. How much do you bet we're going to be stuck with the mortage?

426 This debate is good for the Conservative Movement and ultimately will be good for the Republican Party.

The men are separating from the boys.

Ronald Reagan was opposed by fellow Republicans in 1980. They thought he was too crude and too simple. The same thing is happening now.

Fools and sniveling wimps worry about perception and form.

The truth stands on its own two feet and does not need any support from carefully crafted crutches.

427

Alright Ace, I've read all 424 comments.

Where's my fucking prize?

428 Maybe if Rahm and I keep them distracted long enough, I can throw in free plastic surgery for women over 50 in the health care bill!

429 I'll add this here, too. Rush is irrational because he said, 4 days before the inauguration, that he hoped Obama would fail in turning this nation into a socialist utopia.

Contrast that with Newt who things that viewpoint is irrational, and HE is the "rational" one, because his iron clad plan is to "hope Obama changes his mind".

Really ? That's rational. And Rush hoping that any one of an infinite set of possibilities that could prevent Obama from ruining this country, that isn't.

Gotcha.

So is there any irony sensed here at all ? While Ace is spending time calling everyone defending Rush "denialists", as if they were part of a cult, when Newt speaks, despite sounding stupid, because HE said it, there is dancing in the streets ???

The stench of stupidity is overwhelming.

430 So.............How bout this weather?

431

Old Sailor

 

If bush is the leader than I am not a rep.  Bush 1 and Bush did more to destroy the REP party than any dem in the history of this country.

432

414 I'm not really sure what the GOP leadership thinks, b/c I hardly hear them say anything.

<JINDAL spoke out IN FAVOUR of Rush.>

Semi-OT: Former President Bush 43 likes Rush. Wonder what he thinks?  

433 Face GOP: The war is lost! Surrender!

434 We're so fucked. Country, movement, party. There's my happiness for the week.

435 POOP!!!!

436 Yeah, VJay is here. He always makes a good point and makes me wet my pants a little.

My favorite line; "and possible pedophiles like Brooks"

LOL

437 DrewM,

 I would agree with you if I thought those people spent two seconds thinking about what Rush said, especially in the voting booth but they don't. The MSM can run with this for weeks, in 6 months Jay Leno will ask them if they who Rush Limbaugh is on the street and they will say "Isn't he the drummer for Spinal Tap?"


You don't change your core beliefs to get them but you don't piss on their leg either in some sort of display of authenticity.

You don't waste your time trying to get the dog to stop pissing either, you just try to get him to piss outside the tent.

438 Allah, the incredible atheist, joins the "fray" with Ace's mini-me?


It seems that about 90% want to see a birth certificate. They are called "Birthers"
It seems that 90% have no problem with the idea of Hussein "failing". They are dismissed as irrational.
It seems that 90% want the fucking stupid, pandering-in-an-attempt-to-copy-the-liberals-so-as-to-appear-"moderate" (whatever that is) Repukes to STOP ALREADY and stand on some fucking principles. They don't know "how to win"

I think this site just jumped the shark...

439 What is this binary nonsense that elected R's must either defend Limbaugh or denounce his statement? As has been written many times before, and apparently ignored by those calling for Limbaugh to exercise restraint, why cannot the person being interviewed simply state, "Rush Limbaugh has explained his position numerous times; if you want to discuss his statements, go ask him because I am not his spokesman. If you want to know what I think about the President's policies, I believe that <insert statement here>." What has drawn Limbaugh's ire is not the failure to support his statement, it's the perceived backstabbing. Why is this so hard for you people to understand?

As for this hurting Republican chances for reelection, I might give some credence to that theory if this were October 2010. When election time rolls around, only results will matter. If the economy is still in the crapper it won't matter what anyone said in January 2009.

440 Thought experiment--Who here wouldn't stand up and cheer if any of our elected came out and said the exact same thing as Rush.

"Damn right I want him to fail, I want every single policy he proposes to fail, they are millstones around the neck of our economy--they are not just wrong, they are deadly: From his proposals to enslave the economy under his radical leftist ideals to his girlish infatuation with the innocence of mass murdering terrorist--they all must fail. Else the country I know and love will fail. I am rooting for the failure of an utterly ordinary man and I will not fail my country."

John McCain ticked up in the polls on two events: 1) Sarah Palin and 2) when he attacked Obama--and he sunk every time he fell back to his old habits--attacking the party, muting attacks per his MSM masters and playing Mr. Bipartisian here to save the day--the last which killed his chances for good.

Crap, I can't believe after getting beat like a drum by Obama and the Dems that we are still playing by the old rules--instead of adopting their tactics or turning their tactics against them . . .  

441
We are becoming the butt of every MSM and leftie joke.

hahahaha, yeah, prior to this they held us in such high regard.

The day we tailor our message and act according to the approval of our political enemies is the day our political movement dies and we lose.

Oh, shit, too late.

442 Sears - Zero percent victories without the 30%.

That does not mean that the various asskissing that is necessary to get the other 21% does not sometimes run counter to what the 30% wants to hear.

That is the truth, especially with the demographic changes over the past 20 years and as projected (even the modest projections) over the next 20 years.  The areas of the population that the 30% is dominant are declining by overall share, and the areas where the 70% are dominant are growing.

So, at the end of the day, Machiavelli would advise a wink and a nod between the 30% and a GOP national politician who wants to get the other 21%. 

Seriously, what am i missing?

443

#378

i wish i could say the same thing so well

444 Isn't Rush kind of a whiny liberal sell-out media cocksucker, too? When was the last time he demanded to see Obama's birth certificate?

445 Posted by: VJay at March 09, 2009 09:26 PM (k87Wm)

There are no conservatives in Congress we should be promoting? No Governors? Just Rush, right?

And you can cry about context all you want but most people only heard "I hope he fails". Now you can complain about the unfairness of it all but that's a simple fact. If you have some sort of personal guarantee that life will be fair, good for you but the rest of us have to deal with the world as it is and not as we'd like it to be.

Here in the reals world saying, "I hope he fails" is death politically.

446 Now it's just getting goddamned stoopid. Newt's starting to look more like a media whore than Rush, Ace and Allah are competing for the whiny bitch category of the upcoming "If-you-all-don't-fall-in-line-I'm-going-to-stomp-my-foot" Awards, and in the mean time Obama is pillaging the country. Way to go, big media blogger types.

Posted by: me at March 09, 2009 07:33 PM

Could not have said it any better. AllahPundit has never been really all that conservative, from what I can tell. He's pretty much been what Rush's critics accuse him of being: a guy who uses his schtick to be a ratings whore (or in the case of AllahPundit, a blog hits and comments whore, since that is his job). But I came here to Ace of Spades, after AllahPundit linking here all the damn time, to find what I thought was a more hardcore, in your face conservatism, instead of AllahPundit's annoying eeyorism and Palin-Thompson-Christian-baiting and Ed Morrissey's more mellow, respectful, civil, thoughtful conservative analysis.

But lately, especially after CPAC, it seems Ace of Spades has been neutered and Ace and Malor are as beta as AllahPundit's blog personality at HotAir.

Rush has been the conservative standard-bearer for 2 decades and yet all Ace and AllahPundit and Patterico can do is whine and bitch and moan about him and then whine and bitch and moan about people criticizing their whining and bitching and moaning.

(Patterico's not whining so much, but AllahPundit and now Ace just can't seem to stop. WTF is wrong here?)

I think I am gonna start spending more time at Gateway Pundit and Protein Wisdom or just find anywhere where the bloggers are a bunch of blog whores just insulting and baiting their readers for blog hits and comments or whiny ass bitches who can't seem to get it through their heads that we have to go on the offensive against this smearing shit from the Left.

But seriously, WTF happened to Ace and AllahPundit, anyway? Is there some beta-male disease going around the Righty blogs I should know about? Seriously...

447 425  I didn't know that about Reagan. You are fortunate that you can remember him. I mean, listening to him, reading his papers, & watching him on TV is nice, but it isn't the same thing. Just saying.

448

John ryan at March 09, 2009 09:31 PM (LHCAa)

 

Bullshit they stayed the FUCK HOME on NOV 4th.  do you not understand that fucking shit yet. 

449 If a dem "went maverick" he would go into the dust bin.
Picture Rhambo stabbing a steak knife into a table, recounting dems he felt were heretics and ejaculating the word DEAD! after each citation.

450 Let's put things in perspective.

The economy is a bus. Obama is the driver. He has just driven the bus over the side of the cliff.

We're in the back of the bus, arguing about Rush and Newt.

We are SO fucked.

The only good thing is, as the Dow sink to 4,000 with no sign of a bottom, and hyperinflation begins to take hold because no one will want to touch our debt... No one will give a shit about Rush, Newt, or whatever Obama's hormonally challenged little fat fuck of a spokesnerd has to say.

451 Hey, Star Witness up there at #18, you nailed it. Just NAILED it.

Michael Steele vs. Hughley = fail

Newt vs. Meet the Press and a week to prepare = epic fail

452 Posted by: Rocks at March 09, 2009 09:32 PM (3RHzM)

Try winning an election with out a good number of them. It won't happen.

453 Ace. This is not about Rush.
It's not about Steele or Newt or you or Allah. It's not about any one thing that anybody said, or how anything was phrased.

It's about who gets to make the rules.

You and Patterico and Allah are saying it's the Left that gets to make the rules. We make statements, the Left 'reinterprets' as it wishes, and -- according to you -- it's WE who screwed up. It's WE who must castigate ourselves and grovel and promise to be more careful next time.

Next time. When the Left will again twist our words. No matter what we say.

That's why this won't die. We've had days of this argument, and you still insist that it's about the Great God Rush. It's not. It's about Calvinball. We like you. We need you. We can't let this go, because you're playing by the Left's rules. We ferociously don't want you to do that, because under those rules, you/we can't win.

It's not about Rush.

454

Allahpundit turned me into a Newt. But I got better.

455 Like I said earlier, I think it's good the squishy ones are known now. It's better than being backstabbed in crucial matters, think McCain. Anyhow, I don't cry over knowing another self proclaimed republican is a douche bag. I'd rather know now.

Do you think Newt has any aspirations for office now?

Good luck with that.

456

#384

after watching that exchange, i'd rather have Victora fucking Jackson as the Chair of the RNC, she's got more balls than Steele or bizzaro-Newt 

457 If  O changes his mind and does something different from what he said he was going to do (no precedent for that of course) he WILL HAVE FAILED TO DO WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO.

Rush and Newt are saying the same thing.

One like a politician, one like one of us.

458
If a dem "went maverick" he would go into the dust bin.

True, but I'm still standing.

459 What we need right now is di-version....

I say Ginger gets nekkid.

Okay, I could get nekkid.

460

John ryan at March 09, 2009 09:31 PM (LHCAa)

 

Bullshit they stayed the FUCK HOME on NOV 4th.  do you not understand that fucking shit yet. 

Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 09:35 PM (aVGmX)

 

and the only ones of us that did bother to show up voted for PALIN.  If it was Mcain and Newt or McCain and Steele or McCain and name your fucking Rino.  I would have stayed the fuck home too. 

 

Palin got me out to vote.  Fuck McCain, fuck Bush, fuck the country club reps.  They do not speak for me and would wipe their hands if they bothered to shake mine.  they think of the base as dirt.  At least Obama is honest enough to say it be it at a private function or not.  fuck the whole REP leadership if they want to go down this route.  the next election they will lose by an even bigger margin as we in the base decide that it is hopeless to even expect freedom from tranny in the form of Daddy/Mommy state two party system

 

461 Drew M,


Please point to the political death of all those Dems who hoped (and prayed, and sacrificed chickens) for the failure of George Bush? They were very explicit and fought him at every turn. The SENATE MAJORITY LEADER declared the war in Iraq lost on the floor of the Senate. Yeah, he's suffering bad now, huh..........

462 Can you realy trust a guy named for a lizard anyway?

463 No, no, no. You are missing the larger point. It doesn't matter if Axelrod has admitted to twisting Limbaugh's words to make him and Republicans look bad. It doesn't matter if Newt took off after Limbaugh. It doesn't matter if Obama's numbers are sinking and Rush's are rising.

It only matters that we don't fight back because if we prove we are cowards then some people might vote for Republicans. Or something.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 09, 2009 07:31 PM

Exactly.

I really don't know what the f*** is so difficult that Ace and AllahPundit and others just don't understand about this. Jeff Goldstein explained it the best I have seen and yet these two and Patterico just can't seem to get it. I'm really at a loss, because I thought very highly of them and I'm baffled how they are not getting it, and are actually promoting the idea that we surrender the battlefield to the Left and grant every one of their premises and just play by their rules. Un-freaking-real.

AllahPundit I can see, because he reminds me of one of my friends at work who didn't really care about taking a principled stand on issues when we talked, he simply liked to be a contrarian and piss me off by pushing my buttons and playing devil's advocate all the time. But Ace I thought more highly of.

I'm beginning to believe that Ace has turned into Eason Jordan-era CNN: he's going all mushy and beta-male with regards to the GOP because he doesn't want to lose his behind the scenes contacts within the Party.

464 My job is so easy.

465

Bobby Jindal spoke out in favour of Rush! How about Jindal?

Being from Houston, I am impressed with Bobby Jindal [he helped us during Ike]. He's a true conservative & a good man.

466 Try winning an election with out a good number of them. It won't happen.

Posted by: DrewM at March 09, 2009 09:36 PM (hlYel)

And if the economy is in the shit AND we convince them it's Obama's/Dems fault they will still vote Dem because some fat guy on the radio said something a year ago?

Stop bogarding the Valu-Rite moron and pass it along.

467 I'll throw in a fifty into the pot.

I'd whack Mother Theresa or the Pope for $50 if I could be sure it would put an end to this.

468 Mongol General: Hao! Dai ye! We won again! This is good, but what is best in life?
Mongol: The open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.
Mongo General: Wrong! Conan! What is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

Can we please get together, stop bitching, and start crushing skulls? (Politically speaking, of course)

469 Ace?


It's old.

470 I don't get Ace being squishy, he does get squishy sometimes, but I don't think that's what it is this time, I think it's just being tired of this stupid drama.

Newt isn't gonna be running for anything, rush isn't gonna be running for anything, ann isn't gonna be running for anything, steele fucked up enough that he ain't gonna win if he runs for anything (and it has less to do with rush than it does with him letting that "litteraly nazi germany shit" sit) frum ain't gonna be running for anything, Meghan ain't gonna be running for anything (at least not in the republican party) and all of the other people that are involved in this.

ACE, Allah and Ed and Pat and Jeff.

Name one person involved in this jackshit manufactured outrage conflict that is gonna be running for anything?

471 we in the base decide that it is hopeless to even expect freedom from tranny

Great...first Gabe gets a spot here, now we have to live with the cross-dressers.  Don't tell me there's no connection.

472 The reason we don't have a leader is because right now we don't have a politician that has the guts to stand up and call a spade a spade. F*k I've had enough my 401k looks like nothing right now and probably f*king won't amount to anything for another f*king ten years. So enough, will someone pls stand up. Sh*t $%^@ damn. We got a President who needs a f*king TelePrompTer wherever he goes and believes in trickle up economics, we got a stupid a*ss treasury secretary who can't find which way is up. We got stupid Arlen Spector predicting depression, really f*k up so then why so much pork in the omnibus. How about the politicians start acting like Americans is that too much to ask. And the Dems are you so weak minded that you can't see Obamanomics is crap.

473 newt did look like a jackass up there with pelosi-how many votes did that slick move gain?

474 Get a grip folks.  The nation is in peril.  Sooner than you think, average folks who simply want to have a job and secure the future for their children will be looking for some alternative to the President they just elected.   Newt at least articulates a set of discrete policies that represents a starting point of discussion as an alternative to the President's agenda.

The issue of wishing or not wishing the President to fail is moot in my mind.  Everyone knows he is setting the country up for failure, the question at hand is will we have a rational and credible long term alternative that can be led by people (i.e. voters, elected representatives, and people in high office) who have the guts to stick with it, come hell or high water.

Neither Newt or Rush have the leadership credentials, but someone will come along.  When he or she does, let's arm them with something that really works rather than something that sounds good for a few short months during and immediately after an election cycle.

475 Seems the AoS staff and Allah think that if asked about Rush it has to be either a Rush lynching or a Rush cocksucking. What a fucking retarded position to take.

476

Name one person involved in this jackshit manufactured outrage conflict that is gonna be running for anything?

Barrack Obama.

477 Well, since we're pushing 500 comments, I'm just guessing that Ace's "last word" thread, yesterday or whenever, wasn't.

Been out drinking. It got icy, so I slid back early (on my feet -- I don't drink and drive, which either makes me superior to Newt or to Rush or to Ace or to Allah or to Jeff G, or to Sarah Palin, or I-don't-know-who, but I'm superior to some-fucking-body on the right. I'm sure of that. In any event, I ain't reading all 500 comments to figure out who, or whom.)

478 460 What we need right now is di-version....

I say Ginger gets nekkid.

Okay, I could get nekkid.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 09, 2009 09:38 PM (MlEgW)

I'm already nekkid, but no one noticed due to my hairshirt.

479 Posted by: sears poncho at March 09, 2009 09:39 PM (uj/0b)

Ask them about 2002 and 2004.  They didn't have so much fun then did they?

There act anti-Bush act only didn't hurt them once Bush's policies became unpopular. The same will happen with Obama. The difference is do you want traditional mid-term pick ups or a big sweep?

480
Rush spent 3 hours today articulating conservative principles.
So did Laura Ingraham. And Sean Hannity. And...

What did Michael Steele and Newt Gingrich do for Conservatism today?

481

You know what?  If George Bush had supported Pat Toomey instead of Arlen Specter, the porkulus would not have passed.

I want each and every one of you to ponder that.  The leader of the Republican Party, the President, supported a man who spends his time consorting with liberals.

How about pondering the fact the leader of the Republican Party, the President, by and large was a  liberal. And screwed us in the name of big-spending, one-worlder liberalism.

482

Why is it so hard for these politicians to get a clue?

 

Why didn't Newt throw this back at Gregory?

 

How about "I reject the premise of the question?"

What the fuck is so hard about understanding what opposition means?

 

It means you don't want the other guy to win!

 

 

 

483

Does anybody else have a problem spelling Obama without trying to mic it up?

I keep wanting to type O'Bama.

484

apotheosis at March

 

good one.  and good catch

 

485

I don't care if it's Rush or Palin, I'm sick and tired to republicans crappinng on there own.

Joining in in the beatdown of any conservative who says anything the press claims is controversial, gives the left a fine rope to hem our ideology in.

486 DrewM, I'm all for not pissing on peoples' legs, but what if it is in fact raining and they accuse you of pissing on them? What do you do then?

Republicans will always fail if they focus on chasing the wishy-washy moderates while taking for granted their solid base. The result will be that the moderates will ignore them -- why should they choose the wannabes when they can get the real thing (Democrats)? -- and the base will split into factions of loyal side-voters who will sigh and cast their ballots for their party's candidate, and the piqued and those who frankly want revenge for how they were treated, who will either sit out the vote or vote for the other guy or one of non-front-runners. That's what happened in the last election. No one was thrilled with McCain, but we were willing to get behind him when he chose Sarah Palin as a running mate. Then he and the other Republican party moderates saw how popular she was (as opposed to the lackluster response McCain got) and decided to throw her to the Democrat wolves. They basically gave her a more subtle form of the brick-to-the-head they're giving Rush Limbaugh now.

But this is how we are fucked. We're never going to win another election as long as we let wannabes lead us. I know I'm not going to vote for another politician who talks down to other people the way the Republican party leadership talks down to what they clearly consider rubes and bumpkins. You know how Reagan said he didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left him? Well I'm feeling that way about the Republican Party, and so are a lot of other people. But it's not because we want to become Democrats, but quite the opposite.

487 I think it's just being tired of this stupid drama.

Posted by: Wickedpinto at March 09, 2009 09:44 PM (O4b2e)

Bullshit. Ace is perpetuating this nonsense. He is doing Axelrod and Emanuel's bidding.

488 Darling, get your ass back to your regular haunt.

489 The real question is does Obama mean for America to fail. It's a good thing for America if the Marxist President fails, regardless.

490

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29493093

491

Does anybody else have a problem spelling Obama without trying to mic it up?

I keep wanting to type O'Bama.

It's the first name that gets me. I keep wanting to type 2 "r"s. Not that I particularly care if I misspell this bastards name.

492

If bush is the leader than I am not a rep.  Bush 1 and Bush did more to destroy the REP party than any dem in the history of this country.

Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 09:30 PM (aVGmX)

Whether you agree with the Bush policies or not, I am concerned with what a President does to THIS NATION, not his party.  Fuck the Republican party.

What is the point in blindly supporting a party whose members have failed in almost every measurable way to live up to and govern by the principles that are supposed to be at the core of what that party believes?  Electability?  Again, what's the point if, when elected, these people will bend and break at the precise moment we need them the most?

If we are unwilling to require adherence to principle by the people we vote for... well... hell, it's like even when we win we lose.

493

And you can cry about context all you want but most people only heard "I hope he fails". Now you can complain about the unfairness of it all but that's a simple fact. If you have some sort of personal guarantee that life will be fair, good for you but the rest of us have to deal with the world as it is and not as we'd like it to be.

Here in the reals world saying, "I hope he fails" is death politically.

Good thing that Rush isn't running for office then.

Yes, Rush said what he did to stir shit up.  He said as much.

However, it was intended to stir shit up in the media and piss off liberals.  Given his audience and the affection for him that exists within the base (if the head of the RNC doesn't represent the base, who does?), why would otherwise smart guys like Steele and Newt take the bait so readily?

There are a hundred ways they could've diplomatically distanced themselves from a single "I hope he fails" Rush line without belittling the man himself or pissing off his listeners. 

This isn't so much about Rush than the fact that some prominent Republicans seem more interested in fracturing the party (in the name of the mythical "moderates") than fighting Obama and the Dems.

494 But he does it anyway, instead of simply blowing it off. He could just say "Well, they're politicians, they're doing the political dance, don't hate the playa, hate the game." Instead he's hellbound to get into a high-profile scrape with anyone who doesn't toe the line.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at March 09, 2009 07:38 PM

Did you even listen to his show today??? I listened to it live online and that's pretty much what he did. The caller was more jazzed up about Newt than Rush. Rush tried to calm her down and sounded exasperated and like he didn't even want to talk about Newt. But the caller was pissed off, so he just said in so many words 'ok look, Newt's a politician and he's going to rip me one day and praise me the next, based on whatever is in his best interest, because that's the game'.

Yet you and Allah turn around and make this "RUSH RIPS NEWT!!11!eleventy!!!!

Un-fucking-real. What the fuck is the problem you two have with Rush anyway? Seriously. WTF?

495

496 Okay I am going to try my simplest wording I am capable of. What Rush said was blunt, and meant to inflame, that is what he does. The message however has merit when taken as a whole. Our representatives in the Republican party, must make blunt, sharp, to cut through to the truth, and flame a source of light rather than that which burns. Throwing Rush under the bus accomplishes neither. 

497
I find in ironic that the responses here on how to respond to Rush's statement are about 1000 fucking times better than the so-called "media savvy" leaders of the GOP.

Face it, Steele fucked up.  He used the leftist meme and language to diss Rush.

Newt fucked up.  He also used the leftist meme and language to diss Rush.

How are these guys surprised by the question?  Why do these guys throw Rush under the bus to get a pat on the head from someone who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire?

Quit fucking pandering to the MSM for a Scooby Snak. 

Rush gave a great speech at CPAC.  It was a home run.  Why not build on it?  Why not try and carry that momentum?

Oy.

498 "Posted by: counter at March 09, 2009 09:50 PM (SL3qo)"

Finally, somebody who makes sense.

499 500!!!

500 I keep seeing two memes here: "big tent" and "distance himself".

Supposedly, one wins elections by merely holding one's base and seducing the middle.

Supposedly, Rush is so hardcore that moderates can't stand his name, his visage, or anything that carries his taint.

In the real world, one wins elections by exciting one's base and convincing the middle, and Rush is only truly reviled by those who the MSM has convinced to never actually listen to him.

You can't have a "big tent" coalition by accepting people on one side and throwing them out the other. If you move the tent leftward, it's still the same-sized tent.

Rush is Rush. He doesn't have to pander, he doesn't have to move. But any Republican who thinks he'll gain hard-fought "middlers" by throwing Rush to the wolves is just deluded. It's BIG TENT. "I may not agree with every single thing that Brother Rush might say, but it's certainly an interesting point of view" is big tent. "He's deluded, irrational, doesn't speak for XXXX, represents the NASCAR-watching toothless hillbilly snake-handling Pentecostal demographic" is NOT.

Steele and Gingrich were morons for stepping into this. They deserve whatever slams they got -- from Rush, from Obama's inner circle, from the left and from the right. By trying to triangulate the fundamental differences between the American people and the Obama crowd, they have demonstrated their unfitness for the coming debate. If everyone in the US is on a 1-100 scale where 1 is statist lefty and 100 is hard-core Libertarian, the battle will not be won by forcing the Democrats into 1-31 and taking the range of 32-64. The way to ensure success is to expand the tent so that you own the range of 37-100.

501 AmishDude,

I was totally just thinking that.

502 "500 500!!!

Posted by: AmishDude at March 09, 2009 09:52 PM (T0NGe)"

You rock. Really.

503 Michael in MI is right, that is exactly what Rush said. I listened to it live at 130 or so.

504 >>> Did you even listen to his show today??? I listened to it live online and that's pretty much what he did. The caller was more jazzed up about Newt than Rush. Rush tried to calm her down and sounded exasperated and like he didn't even want to talk about Newt. But the caller was pissed off, so he just said in so many words 'ok look, Newt's a politician and he's going to rip me one day and praise me the next, based on whatever is in his best interest, because that's the game'.

Is this true?  Can I get secondary confirmation?

If it is true, I'm a bit pissed that I was accepting the initial premise.  And, frankly, just don't trust the people who just peddled it to me.

505

498 Because controversy sells?

"Conservatism is about people...and wanting those people to succeed."

~Rush Limbaugh~

Rush also said that conservatives come in different stripes, & that we need to rally together to beat Obama. 

506 this is near 500 and the steak and BJ posting is no where near a hundred..

First Obama doesn't deliver his Unicorns..

now this..

I'm disappointed with you morons..

507 Shit, I'll stand nekkid on the Capitol steps for a week, if it means, we can kill this topic.

508 There is so little in my life.  Give me the joy of coincidence.

509

I keep seeing two memes here: "big tent" and "distance himself".

Whenever I make a "big tent" my wife always "distances herself".

 

Is that related?

510 495

Yup

511
Is this true?

Yes, that's what I heard, too. Rush sounded a little disappointed in Newt, but not surprised.

512 As for what's gotten into Ace and Allah: somebody pointed out that Patterico is arguing this like a lawyer, which of course he is. That is, he's accepting the 'law' as a given, and trying to argue the details within that framework.

Instead, we want him -- and everyone else on the Right -- to be saying, hey, no, that's not the law, that's what the Left wants the law to be.

Ace and Allah are lawyers too. (Jeff Goldstein isn't.)

513 Show of hands.  Who listened to the show?  Is it objectively true that Limbaugh tried to play it down?

(Not saying anyone is talking silly but I want to know if it seemed that way to most listeners.)

514 >>Ace. This is not about Rush.
It's not about Steele or Newt or you or Allah. It's not about any one thing that anybody said, or how anything was phrased.

>>It's about who gets to make the rules.

With respect, it's about none of the above.

I don't understand what's the matter with some of you. Lack of conviction, lack of courage. I just don't get it.

I do agree with Nevicata that it is not about Rush. It never has been. It is about telling the truth and having the courage to stand behind our words.

I'm not a Rush listener but from what I know of him he fights for the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the values most of us hold true. He doesn't always say it in a way that the MSM approves of? In this place? Well fuck me running.

We have been through 7 years of war with men and women who by and large believe as we do being slandered and demeaned in the most despicable way by the left. We asked those people to fight on our behalf but we are too cowardly to stand strong and tell the truth because we might be defeated by the MSM? Are you fucking kidding me? We have had our leaders slimed and lied about. We have had our own positions twisted and our beliefs shit on. When, exactly, are we going to grow some balls and stand up to this shit?

>>It's not about Rush.

True. It's about you. What the fuck do you believe strongly enough to actually fight for?

515 Shit, I'll stand nekkid on the Capitol steps for a week, if it means, we can kill this topic.

For God's sake, someone take this thread out back and shoot it. Do it for the pooter!

516 If it is true, I'm a bit pissed that I was accepting the initial premise.  And, frankly, just don't trust the people who just peddled it to me.

Isn't that the whole problem with this kerfuffle?

517 I appreciate what Ace, Patterico, Allah, etc. are saying. But I can't help but feel that the drive to become a majority including the awful big tent methods --the results of which we complain about to no end, is what often leads to our minority status.  I mean what is it?

Is Frum right that we need to become moderate? Newt is similar in this regard, but he's trying to turn liberal-owned issues into conservative issues.  Getting that ownership of issues would be nice, but I think he's failing miserably. 

I'm not so sure about this paticular tactic of Rush's, but I'm confident that putting teeth on the conservative movement is better than what we've been doing.

518 So far, three votes towards "Limbaugh was trying to downplay it."

519 I always thought it was the pansies on the left who whined, pouted and had tantrums. We're supposed to be the strong guys.

This is so embarrassing.

520

Wow, who knew the Conservative Movement would die a cannibalistic death?

521 I want Obama to fail.

I want somebody who also wants Obama to fail, and has something to lose by saying it, to stand up and fucking say it.

When a Republican politician stands up and says Fuck You, Next Question the Republicans will win.

522 Republicans will always fail if they focus on chasing the wishy-washy moderates while taking for granted their solid base.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at March 09, 2009 09:47 PM (vLf8O)

This ability to walk and chew gum is why successful politicians are, you know, successful.

If your plan is to forever right off 'wishy-washy moderates' you are simply saying you are good with Republicans and conservatives (not always the same thing) being a permanent minority.

The idea that the conservative 'solid base' is an electoral majority in this country is simply fantasy.

523 Drew M

I'm sure the Dems were fine in 2002 and 2004 what with liberal policies being offered and passed by Republicans. And it wasn't as if the public woke up in 2005 thinking that Bush was a shit president. Dems beat that drum for the previous 3 years. Seems to be a winning strategy if I'm counting the seats in congress correctly.

As to what happens in 2010. Well I'm not a member of any party, so if it's a choice between "me too" Republicans and Dems, I'd rather sit out.

524

Okay, I could get nekkid.

I am naked. Naked as a jay bird. Well, I am wearing my bacon helmet and my cape made out of human dicks. I thought that was required to visit the site.

525

#436

not true, McCain took the base for granted and lost

526

Hints to the Republicans who go on TV:

You will be asked about this, so look at what was said by Rush.  Not what the WH says Rush said.

some suggestions for responses:

"I guess with a Democrat in office dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism."

"Have you asked any Democrat politicians to denounce Keith Olbermann recently?"

maybe read out what Rush said..or:

"If you read. watch or listen to what Rush said he was talking about massive government intrusion, he doesn't think that the way out (and then tell us if you, the politician, thinks that it is.)

"For 8 years we have had people, including elected officials hoping for, and doing their best to cause, President Bush to fail, before that it was his father for 4 years, and before that it was Reagan, so now it's a terrible thing?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

527
When a Republican politician stands up and says Fuck You, Next Question the Republicans will win.

Posted by: eman at March 09, 2009 09:58 PM (f0dGF)

Keep dreaming

528

To the fools who are now throwing Allah and Ace under the bus.

 

Buzz off fools.

 

Also note that Newt said this White House going after Rush is Nixonian.

He said Rahm is Obama's Holderman.

 

That had to hurt. I think. I don't know who the fuck Holderman is/was.

529 So this is what it comes down to on the third or fourth "last word" on the subject:  Steele, Gingrich, and other Republicans are "forced" to comment on Rush's statement (as noted above, if they aren't man enough to resist being baited by a reporter, they are pretty much ball-less little twits anyway).  Allah, Ace, and Patterico thinks they "must" repudiate Rush to maintain "political viability" with the middle or swing voters (I presume).  Goldstein thinks they are all on a fool's errand.

I'm with Jeff.  And by the way, wasn't that a familiar phrase Ace used, "political viability"?  Where have I heard that before?

Oh, yeah, the letter Bill Clinton wrote to the ROTC commander after reneging on his commitment . . . "to maintain my political viability within the system . . ."

Absolutely, that's what we should aspire to become, right?

530 Posted by: sears poncho at March 09, 2009 09:58 PM (uj/0b)

You kind of skip over the part where Bush won re-election in 2004 with a greater majority than he did in 2000. I'm not sure that was part of the Democrats plan.

531

Ace, I'm sad to say but you have descended below the point at which any form of discourse on the matter is possible with you.  Like a classic liberal you've:

1)  mistook the issue at hand, then used people who similarly use an incorrect version of what Rush said to buttress your case (read what Newt said, he agrees with what Rush actually said),

2) only allow black and white options of either agreeing with Newt/Steele/Ace/Allah/Frum or wanting them banished,

3) belittled rational arguments against your views,

4) constructed numerous strawmen,

5) and worse of all you've sweepingly labeled the large numbers of people cultists and for disagreeing with you.

As I advised you in another thread, just give it up man.  I don't know why but for some reason you seem to not be capable of debating this issue.  Admittedly, I haven't yet seen anyone yet who has defended your position well, but at least there are some who have been able to do it in a reasoned dignified manner.

532 H.R. Haldeman was Nixon's Chief of Staff during the Watergate years.  The comparison to Emanuel is pretty accurate.

533 Wow, I just listened to a tiny (what? 30 audio clip?) over at Politico and if that's the worst he said, I simply don't trust people I thought I trusted before.

534

Um, other than William F. Buckley, Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, & Rush Limbaugh, are there any other high-profile American leaders who fought for paleoconservatism?   

 

535 "Posted by: Ginger at March 09, 2009 09:55 PM (jajon)"

You might want to rethink that, after considering what happened to Wm. Henry Harrison, after only a few hours in the DC March weather.

(And he was clothed, by all accounts.)

536 513 As for what's gotten into Ace and Allah: somebody pointed out that Patterico is arguing this like a lawyer, which of course he is. That is, he's accepting the 'law' as a given, and trying to argue the details within that framework.

Instead, we want him -- and everyone else on the Right -- to be saying, hey, no, that's not the law, that's what the Left wants the law to be.

Ace and Allah are lawyers too. (Jeff Goldstein isn't.)

Ah.  That explains it.  Because you learn all the wrong lessons in law school:
(1) Even though court is that way, the world is not a zero-sum game.
(2) You can win the argument and be wrong in real life.
(3) Stare decisis (Latin for "perpetuating stupidity") just means you have to make a mistake now because some imbecile made the mistake before.
(4) The world doesn't end when the case does.  There are unintended consequences.
(5) Law school doesn't prove you're smart: No dissertation, no mathematics, three years, low failure rate and no competition from foreign students.  Some of us call that a vacation.

537 "I don't know who the fuck Holderman is/was."

And you call us the fools?

pot meet kettle

538 Hey, quit knocking Peoria!

539 You're knocking me for knocking Rush -- but you know my problem? Fucking Rush won't stop attacking the GOP.

Fuck the spineless, unprincipled GOP.  Rush is the same right now as he was twenty years ago, as others have pointed out; he is a Reaganite conservative and speaks from principle, which is why he doesn't have to take a poll or have someone write him a script to run a three hour extemporaneous show.  He's not always right, but neither does he shift with the populist breeze. 

I swear to God, I have no idea what to expect when I come to this blog anymore.

540

Also note that Newt said this White House going after Rush is Nixonian.

He said Rahm is Obama's Holderman.

I choose to believe that this White House going after Rush is Johnsonian and Rahm is Obama's Bill Press.

541
And why is it okay for Newt to shit on Nixon?

Nixon > Obama

Nixon > Newt

542

You kind of skip over the part where Bush won re-election in 2004 with a greater majority than he did in 2000. I'm not sure that was part of the Democrats plan.

You kind of skip over the part where the dems took back Congress in 2006 and achieved a major win at all levels in 2008.  I would be surprised if they aren't happy how things turned out.

543 So far, three votes towards "Limbaugh was trying to downplay it."

Posted by: counter at March 09, 2009 09:58 PM (SL3qo)

 

make that 4

544 I'm going to say something because Ace can't/won't say it: at this point, he's embarrassed by certain elements of his readership.  I'm pretty sure it's boiled over to contempt by now.

And who can blame him?  To be perfectly blunt, this place has become populated with hardheaded ignorants whose approach to conservatism is to curse and shriek, posture as the toughest guy in the room, and declare that anyone who isn't on board with Rush should be tossed into a garbagecan.  And why?  Not because what he said was politically smart or politically defensible.  No, just because it makes you feel good.  And that's more important than winning elections.  I suppose we could wait for Obama to implode the way Bush did (newsflash for idiots: the rhetoric of the Kos Kidz and the Democrats was NOT why they won, it was Bush and the GOP blowing it for themselves) and luck into power even though we've been screaming stupid politically counterproductive, psychologically soothing rhetoric like a bum outside a 7-11, but me?  I'd prefer to win earlier than that, because if we wait too long Obama will have truly screwed up this country.

Ace, Malor, DrewM...sensible guys, good posters, great bloggers.  The commentariat?  It's sickening to see how far this place has fallen since the glory days.  Since when did everyone get so...stupid?

545 Posted by: me at March 09, 2009 10:08 PM (7zCg+)

Um, who is 'Holderman'? I know who Bob Halderman is (was) and I know who Eric Holder is but this 'Holderman' you speak of is a mystery to me.

Care to share?

546 "I swear to God, I have no idea what to expect when I come to this blog anymore."

I guess you missed the request for Ginger to get nekkid.

547

I choose to believe that this White House going after Rush is Johnsonian and Rahm is Obama's Bill Press.
Does that man that Bill Moyers will be outing Allahpundit?

548

Markie Marxist sez: "Newt is correct. You're irrational if you don't want the new president to succeed, because if he doesn't succeed the country doesn't succeed, and if the country doesn't succeed Marxism doesn't succeed."

549 Wow, I just listened to a tiny (what? 30 audio clip?) over at Politico

I think this is the transcript

550 I guess you missed the request for Ginger to get nekkid.

It was more like a promise and I say we hold her to it.

551 Ah, I meant Moyers.  Fuck this uneditable posting system.

552 Drew, not to be picky (ok, to be picky), but it's "Haldeman."

553 Is there a link to Victoria Jackson calling Obama a communist on Hannity?  I'd like to see that.

554

Working on that Newsweek gig, JeffB? Maybe take some baby steps like posting comments at New Majority first.

555

Elections have consequences. In a free society, voting is not only a privilege, it's a duty.

Sitting out the last 2 elections helped bring about a hard-core socialist Congress with a Marxist president.

You all have had the privilege of getting married and having children in a free society. Will I have that chance?

It seems like we're too busy being cannabalistic while Obama kills our great Republic.

 

556 For fuck's sake ... this topic again?

557 Posted by: notropis at March 09, 2009 10:15 PM (kPbfl)

So it is.

I was being picky so I deserve it. In my defense, I will blame the cold medicine I am slugging down like it was Valu-Rite on a Friday night.

558

"But seriously, WTF happened to Ace and AllahPundit, anyway?"

Ace and the limp wristed Gabriel Malor are really the same person.

559 Brothers and sisters,,, this anger and passion is a good thing . It shows we are well and truly engaged in the fight for the heart of the country .
 My sincere best wishes to all of you .

Except for Brooks, Buckley and the like , they can all kiss my rebel dick.

560 Serious question for Ace or Drew or Allah or anyone in the Rush is embarrassing and should shut up camp,

You keep saying that this is not a hill worth fighting for and we should move on to better ground. Where is that better ground and how do we get there from here?

I agree with JeffG that the left is always going to take our words out of context and put the worst spin on them they can. Sooner or later we are going to have to stand our ground and fight for the meaning of our words.

It seems to me that if you can't use a question like "Rush Limbaugh has said that he hopes the president fails, how do you feel about that?", as a springboard to cannonball into a discussion of Obama's policies and why they are bad for the country and doomed to failure and will spread economic misery, you are pretty much hopeless as a politician. It may not be a good spot to defend but it is a great place to attack from.

So where do you guys want to fight Obama, and how do you get the discussion there?

561 Posted by: Andrea Harris at March 09, 2009 09:47 PM (vLf8O)

Well said.

562 "You all have had the privilege of getting married and having children in a free society. Will I have that chance?"

There's only so much we can do. Marriage and children are up to you, son....

563
...Ace can't/won't say it: at this point, he's embarrassed by certain elements of his readership.  I'm pretty sure it's boiled over to contempt by now.

*laughs* Then I guess he, David Frum, and John McCain, and have a lot in common.

If that's the case, then we should take a walk down Memory Lane to October and remember when Ace told many here to "shut up [about TARP] and listen to their betters."

We all make mistakes in our judgment and some day we'll look back at this day and laugh, too.

564

There are no conservatives in Congress we should be promoting? No Governors? Just Rush, right?

We're officially in "arguing with trolls" territory now.  Yes, Drew, that's exactly what I said -- promote Rush Limbaugh at the expense of any of the tiny handful of conservatives currently holding elective office.

Between you and Ace, there’s a strawman getting The Accused treatment right about now.

But on second, non-smart-assed thought, you've got a good idea there.  Maybe you should pass it on the site host.  When he's done crying about how mean his posters have been to him over a topic he's choosing to flog to death, maybe he'll resist the urge to flog it some more and instead start a "Cool Facts About Mark Sanford" thread like the Ace of old we've known and loved.

And you can cry about context all you want but most people only heard "I hope he fails". Now you can complain about the unfairness of it all but that's a simple fact.

Uh, the only crying and complaining I'm hearing is from you, Ace, Allah, and the rest of the Supremes.  I never said anything about "fairness".  My point was more along the lines of “how blindingly incompetent does a politician have to be not to be able to handle a softball like this?”  

You say that “most people only heard ‘I hope he fails’”.  OK – I’ll grant that.

But if only there were Republicans who were given massive media megaphones through which they could artfully provide that readily available context (or – gasp – completely change the subject with a slick transition to the talking points they want to hammer home) without tethering either Limbaugh or his statement to themselves!  If only they were politicians whose sole stock in trade is the slippery manipulation of words!  And if only it were possible to have the situational awareness to recognize that, as a Republican given media access, you’re going to be questioned about this very subject and should therefore prepare a careful, politically-savvy response just like every single Democrat in the western hemisphere already has!

Oh, wait – we supposedly have people like that.  They just either suck horribly at their jobs (Steele), are far more concerned with their own self-aggrandizement than they are with anything else (Gingrich), or possibly like to fondle little boys while reading the Daily Dish (Brooks).   But Limbaugh – the professional entertainer whose primary motivation is ratings – needs to play it cool and cover up for this No Exit casting call that comprises our “leadership”.

 

Because Ace’s posters have been mean to him.

 

I don’t think you guys have any idea how ridiculous you sound right now.  If I weren’t a truly horrible human being born with neither empathy nor a soul, I’d be embarrassed for you.

 

If you have some sort of personal guarantee that life will be fair, good for you but the rest of us have to deal with the world as it is and not as we'd like it to be.

Here in the reals world saying, "I hope he fails" is death politically.

 

Awe.  Thanks Drew.  It wouldn’t be a Drewian retort without the creamy, rich condescensiony goodness slathered all over it.  Let me know if there’s a meet-up in “the reals world” (i.e. New York); I’ve never been and I’m dying to see it.

565

You kind of skip over the part where Bush won re-election in 2004 with a greater majority than he did in 2000. I'm not sure that was part of the Democrats plan.

You kind of skip over the part where the dems took back Congress in 2006 and achieved a major win at all levels in 2008.  I would be surprised if they aren't happy how things turned out.

]

Only reason Bush beat FUCKING KERRY  LURCH by a couple thousand votes was the WAR.  

 

I mean HE only BEAT KERRY BY  FUCKING OHIO.  Someone should have pointed out that was not a good sign.   Reagan carried 49 fucking states.  So the Bush way got us a close call against fucking KERRY.  reagan/rush way got us 49 landslide. 

 

I'll take door number two.  People don't change much.  sure they may become a little more socially liberal overtime  or a little more conservative socially overtime but the founding fathers understand thru history,  human nature DOES NOT FUCKING CHANGE.  People want freedom to keep the fruits of their labor, to be insured of some security in exchange of giving up some freedom. but most of all they want to be left alone to life their lives in their convictions and their beliefs.  They want ot be able to interact with  other humans without getting killed or raped or mugged etc.  So law and order (illegal immigration took this from us), security, and individual freedom. 

I mean it isn't rocket science people.

566 >>> I'm going to say something because Ace can't/won't say it: at this point, he's embarrassed by certain elements of his readership.  I'm pretty sure it's boiled over to contempt by now.

With friends like this, why would Ace need enemies?

Let me say something that Ace can't/won't say.  He might not like you saying he has a great deal of contempt for his readership.  Especially when most people are disagreeing and he probably only feels a few are contemptible.

Wow, diplomacy everybody.  Overcharge or reset.  Hard to tell the difference.

567

563 *laughing* I'm a young woman--but point taken.

My point still stands, as well.

568 Are Mark Steyn and John O'Sullivan mongoloids, too, just like the rest of us morons at Ace's?
Our pal John O'Sullivan said to me a couple of months back that conservative "reformers" should be required to produce some elementary arithmetic showing that all the people turned off by the "reforms" will be replaced by at least the same number of people plus one. David Frum thinks the Republican Party needs to cut loose Rush, a man whose millions of listeners account for a significant proportion of the GOP base. It's not clear who, if anyone, David brings to the table in return. Notwithstanding his Strange New Respect from Newsweek, he should find something new to talk about.

569 Ace is just making shit up now.

Please to link where Rush is "INSISTING ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DEFEND HIM ON IT"?

All I've seen is Rush defending himself from pussies and morons.

THE MONSTER!

570 "Time-out team" Dig deep and name one thing you don't agree with Rush on in principle.  While he may not be the leader...  it's time we wake the fuck up quit the squabbling over the spotlight and go in the direction we don't apologize about. 

The chips are falling on the table faster and faster everyday. dow6500 .  It time our party our movement pulled their head out of their jock strap and charged in the direction of the USA.  The walmart voter believes in our values... ITS Time we started educating what our values are....  not a bunch of steel newt bitches.

Got that?!  Time to Man Up! The folks are getting angry!

571 Drew - I was quoting #529 that was calling me a fool.  Try and keep up, wouldja?

572 Cease fire dammit! Has anybody noticed we are shooting at each other and again not focusing on the Boy Wonder and Dr.Evil(Rahm)?

What is the deal with our supposed leaders? Newt and Steele should have said "Rush is a private citizen and I have no control over him." How many times have you heard Democrats criticize the Daily Kos? Even during the shameful Palin smear? Right they have taken Reagan's advice and speak no ill of a fellow party member.

I don't care about Rush at all. I think he is excellent at dissecting liberal talking points. We should not have to explain him any more than the Liberals explain the Kos Kids or Huffers.

573 Where is that better ground and how do we get there from here?
Posted by: carl at March 09, 2009 10:17 PM (EX+6L)

First, I think we need to let Republican politicians like Cantor and Gingrey say the obvious...Rush is not the leader or the voice of the party, without them getting inundated with calls and then in the case of Gingrey having to call Rush and beg forgiveness.

Gingrey didn't say anything bad about Rush, he just wasn't sufficiently supplicant. Now Limbaugh didn't go after him but conservatives did.

That's just not helpful.

Beyond that, it has to be about policy. How much coverage did the House Republican alternative to the 'stimulus' get compared to this? Not much. Hell not even on Rush's show. Rush put his own plan in the WSJ. That's fine because setting policy isn't his job.

Let's forget about Rush and who loves him more and try and boost the good guys we already have.

574 Hey Jeff B.

Stop with the dancing around like Jame Gumb with your dick between your legs hoping that Ace gives you a cookie. Fuck, I am embarrassed for you even if you can't manage it for yourself.

Ace is wrong on this despite what his amen choir says as can be seen by the hundreds of comments that come out against him every time he or one of his co-bloggers brings this up. Or you could just look at Limbaugh's ratings or Obama's poll numbers.

This was a blunder by Obama. His team lied. Suck it up and untuck your nuts. Even if you have to "sigh" go against the glory days.

575 568

Sorry for the gender confusion, and (to be serious for a moment), having a couple of 90s babies myself, I understand your concern, and share it.

576

566 Bush was leading Kerry by *12-15 points* until the horrid 1st debate.

577 You know what sound scares David Brooks the most?

The sound of his phone not ringing.

"Was it something I said?"

578 "This ability to walk and chew gum is why successful politicians are, you know, successful.

If your plan is to forever right off 'wishy-washy moderates' you are simply saying you are good with Republicans and conservatives (not always the same thing) being a permanent minority.

The idea that the conservative 'solid base' is an electoral majority in this country is simply fantasy."

Way to completely ignore and/or misunderstand what I wrote.

1) I am not at all sure that any politician knows how to "walk and chew gum at the same time." Frankly I'm not impressed with the intelligence of most Republican politicians -- or actually, their common sense, I'm sure lots of them are book smart. But these days all the savvy dudes seem to be in the other party. They're the ones who won, after all. And they didn't do it by ignoring their base and going after the mushy moderates -- they pandered to their base and the moderates, impressed with what they saw them being promised by their leaders, jumped on the bandwagon.

2) I never said that the Republican base was an "elective majority." That wasn't anywhere in my comment. The sad fact is true conservatives seem to have become a minority in this country, while the hordes of people wanting free government cheese and a cradle-to-the-grave healthcare plan and the mortgage on their McMansion paid for and no messy wars and for the whole world to love us or to at least keep out of sight.

3) Chasing the above type of voter with a lookalike, soundalike Republidemocrat program may snare a few of them, but most of this type of voter will just say to himself that if even the evil Rethuglikkkans are down with the Democrat Way, then Democrat is the way to go.

4) Sticking to our principles (instead of cowering in fear of a media slapdown) might not bring in those moderate votes in huge numbers, but at least it will bring us respect... which will work for us in the long run, as Obey-ma's plans one by one fall to pieces and people realize they were taken in by a pretty set of moobs. They'll want true leadership then, and they won't be looking for a weak imitation of Obama. Remember, after Carter came Reagan.

5) -- I forget what five was.

6) Of course, sticking to our principles might not work, but at least we'll go out knowing we were right. Losing isn't necessarily a bad thing. Remember that quote from that Firefly series people here are always yakking about? "Might have been on the losing side -- still not convinced it was the wrong one." Are you Browncoat, or Alliance? I'd rather be Browncoat, because those Alliance people are dicks.

579 *laughing* I'm a young woman--but point taken.

My point still stands, as well.

...Cur notes that '80baby is a woman...

THAT'S the moron way.

580 Daddy didn't show me affection. Now I am angry. I must lash out blindly in blog comment sections because I don't have the balls to really act on my anger.

581
Explain him?

We should cherish him. Rush is trying to help Republicans win; they should embrace him, not run from him or marginalize him.

Not trying to pick on you, locust, just saying.

582

Jeff B.

 

just what we need another snob.  Did you all every think we are embarassed by people like you in the party?  The limp dicks that couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag?  No because we are the problem see the strawman you set up.  Isn't that nice.

I have to disown you snobs whenever I go to the neighborhood  pigpicken.  I mean can you imagine my shame when my beer chugging friends ask me why Frum and Ace have become ballless?  the same thing happened with BUSH>  Bush got support when he had balls.  not so much when Nancy cut them off.  Rush got Balls.  Newt steele ACE and Allah do not.

 

But then I hang around alpha males not metrosexual posers

583

566 Bush was leading Kerry by *12-15 points* until the horrid 1st debate.

Posted by: '80sBaby at March 09, 2009 10:27 PM (zmiSr)

 

You mean when bush went for the moderates in the first debate?

584 Right... they didn't state things quite right, so they're to be criticized

--Ace

It wasn't merely "not quite right."

Saying that Rush was irrational wasn't simply making a slightly off the mark judgment. Newt basically said that Rush was crazy for wanting our first Marxist president to fail at looting the nation and inciting our enemies to attack us.

This is not difficult to understand.

585 No matter who is president, I will always be a big sniveling pile of FAIL.

586 The last I checked this was Ace Of Spades HQ. And the last 5 of 6 posts on this topic were posted by Ace of Ace of Spades HQ.

You own the site, man. You control the content! If you want people to let this go or if you can't agree to disagree with the rest of us, how about you STOP POSTING ON THE SUBJECT!!!!!

For fuck's sake, this is way past ridiculous. This site is starting to feel like HA; which I stopped frequenting because of that asshole AP who constantly posts up stuff like this to whore out for web traffic then looks down his nose at everyone who doesn't agree with him.

This was my favorite political site until we started with this bullshit. Please, for the love of God and all that is holy, stop posting on the subject and move the fuck on, Ace.

Posted by: Mandy P. at March 09, 2009 08:30 PM

Amen to absolutely everything you said here.

I stopped going to LGF because of the creationism-evolution crap, I'm frequenting HotAir less because of exactly what you stated about AllahPundit and now I'm getting sick of this pansy-ass attitude shared by Ace and other authors here about not attacking the Left and the mass media about their lies, smears and attack bullshit. Jeff Goldstein laid it out perfectly and people still can't fucking get it and Ace has turned into as whiny a victim bitch on this issue as AllahPundit is about ... well pretty much everything, depending on the day and whatever he feels will generate traffic on the site.

And what is this shit with Ace whining about wanting Rush to drop this and focus on the Democrats? Ace, do you even fucking listen to Rush's show or do you just go to the Lefty attack sites like AllahPundit and get the smear summary? Rush is on for 3 fucking hours and covers a lot of shit. Maybe instead of making a bunch of whiny fucking posts, you can take 3 hours out of your day and get informed to exactly what actually Rush says on a daily basis. He spends at LEAST 50-75% of his show calling out the Left and then the rest is callers and calling out the RINOs. Of course you and AllahPundit would know this shit if you actually listened more than you shot your fucking mouths off on your blogs.

And it's ironic you're whining about wanting Rush to move on when all you're doing is talking about Rush and not moving on yourself. Take your own fucking advice and stop being an asshole attacking your own side and go after the Left.

587 Posted by: Andrea Harris at March 09, 2009 10:27 PM (vLf8O)

Okay, so if conservatives aren't a majority and we shouldn't focus on trying to add moderates to our column, how exactly do we win majorities?

588 Can you realy trust a guy named for a lizard anyway? 
Posted by: Spurwing Plover at March 09, 2009 09:39 PM (6lU6Y)

Nobody has topped the laconic majesty of the bird.

589 www.youtube.com/ watch?v=dlFUewQ3SKU

590

#513

very enlightening post, i get too, lawyers are trained to operate within a system of pre-set rules (law) and everything they do has to fit with in that system that they can not change, they get used to it and don't ever consider changing the system by changing the rules, most of us aren't lawyers and so have no problem with that concept and have come to the conclusion that it is very nesscessary to change the system

down with the old and up with the new!

the rules, they are a changin'...

591 I think if you kind of boil it down it seems that Rush opened the door to start the debate, he tossed the football, and instead of republicans "artfully" turning a sloppy throw into a skillful dash to the goal line they passed the ball off to the other side in an epic fumble.`

The door was opened, but the repubs that wanted to play patty cake blew a golden opportunity because their first reaction was to appease and play patty cake. I call it pulling a McCain, because that asshat trashed the republicans as much as he did the dems. karate yes,  katate no, in the middle squish like grape. I think thats pretty much what pisses people off here. They had a chance to run with the ball and ended up stepping on their dicks.

592
How do we add moderates, Drew? Tell us your plan to do this, please.

593 How about, oh say,,,let's see, we try and bring them into the conservative movement, Drew?  You know, instead of telling them the leading conservative, Rush is the evil doer.

594 Actually, DrewM., I'm kinda wondering that from the opposite direction.  What type of 80/20 wedge issues should we be pushing?  Around half of them seem to go against the (position as slightly more moderate) grain.  Like immigration, prop 8, in God we trust, etc.

595

I am surprised that anybody here is surprised.  We thought there would be a civil war within the GOP...well...here it is folks.

I do not want to vote anybody off the island*, but these less combative..err squishy...types need to heed the notion that they must lead, follow, or get out of the way.  I don't see much leadership or followership, and these gnats sure as hell are not getting out of the way.

As of right now, Rush is the only heavyhitter we have in the field, and THAT is why the Obama team is going after him. 

*Anybody who is at least sort of nominally loyal to the conservative movement.  In other words, Brooks, Frum, Douhat, Buckley the lesser, Parker, and Noonan can still go fuck themselves.

596 Ace,

I keep hearing you say we have to move on. I have asked you in at least two threads - maybe three - to kindly show some leadership and post threads calling on all morons to post ways to take the attack to the left. I even posted a lame-ass sample tactic.

Instead, I see yet another of these idiotic threads, deliberately inviting fratricide. What the fuck is wrong with you? You did not have to post this thread. You chose to stir things up even more. You're fucking up BIG TIME, and it is high time someone told you.

Now, STOP POSTING THREADS ABOUT THE LIMBAUGH/GINGRICH/STEELE CONTROVERSY. You have lots of bright people here. Start showing leadership. Bring them together by providing a common enemy - Obama! Solicit ways we can attack the left. Post threads where we can get together behind our shared contempt of statism, command economies and the denial of personal liberties, and where we can come together around the things we hold most dear: Hobo hunting, cheap vodka, and Ginger wrestling alexthechick.

This is your blog - your property - and you can do with it what you want, but you are not helping anyone with these threads. We need to take a new tack, "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the site's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the verbal battle and for his widow and his mistress, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all morons."

That may not be an entirely accurate quote of Lincoln ...

597 i ain't throwing Ace under the bus, he owes me money, lol

598

"And why is it okay for Newt to shit on Nixon?

Nixon > Obama

Nixon > Newt"

No shit. Nixon was better than almost every 20th century Democratic president 30 years from now we'll be calling bad things Limbaudian and Bushian. Just more long-standing leftist bullshit accepted in the name of pragmatism.

599

He seems to take a lot of things personally.

"Ace of Spades," you ignorant slut! I listened to the show today and, in response to a caller who was angry at Newt, Rush said "you can't take this stuff personally." He reiterated it over and over and over that he really wasn't bothered by it, that it was just the way things worked with those who were in the media spotlight, and that he wasn't going to respond in kind. Now suck my cock, dumbass.

600 Posted by: Andrea Harris at March 09, 2009 10:27 PM (vLf8O)

BTW- I have never advocated abandoing conservative principles. Quite the opposite in fact. My point is how you package and present those principles is very important.

The way Rush does it while talking to fellow conservatives is very different from how a politician running for office will talk about those same principles and more importantly the policies that will flow from them if they are elected.

As I've said several times, my problem with Rush as the face of the party and/or movement is we won't win electorally with his brand of presentation. It simply doesn't attract those who aren't already on our side.

Is that really so controversial?

601 | How do we add moderates, Drew? Tell us your plan to do this, please.

The same way moderates were delivered to Reagan.   They were exasperated with Mr. Peanut and Reagan not just won, but delivered.

602

584 The incredulous faces he was making was what starting dragging him down. He was angry, & he let it get to him.

President Bush is a socio-religious conservative, which usually means bigger & non-libertarian government. A good book about this is The Elephant in the Room, which explains that there will be an all-out war between the libertarian conservatives & the soical & religious cons. If you want to call him a CINO, fine; but that still makes him a mainstream Republican.

Another question: Rush likes President Bush, & the feeling is mutual. I wonder why that is..

603 How do we add moderates, Drew? Tell us your plan to do this, please.

Posted by: Darling, just an entertainer at March 09, 2009 10:35 PM (wz2r0

you make the conservative idea appealing to them or you make the liberal idea scary to them.  sadly we did the second too much and the first too little. 

 

the whole idea of the moderate RINO's is that they aren't liberal thus safer. 

604 519 So far, three votes towards "Limbaugh was trying to downplay it."   He was trying to downplay it but he did say that politicians (and I think he was including Newt here) would say what they needed to say at any given moment and even use or align with him again in future if it served their purposes.   I take back what I said about Newt being dead to me.  Who am I to say that?   It seems to me that the problem is that the factions within the party destest one another and I do't see that changing.   I only listened to 15 minutes of Rush today.  I can't listen to talk radio for very long, no matter who's on the blower.   But Rush is family, and there's a good chance that some people who are just tuning in to him will stay and be cheered by his defense of the America he knew that might truly be dead.   I know things change.  In a few years all of the moderates who screamed about not wanting anyone in their bedroom will face a bureaucrat between their dressing gown and their doctor.   We're gouging our own eyes out, at the behest of our enemies.   Obama is the natural payback for having been blessed but ungateful. 

605 NEPA

Spot on.

606 TEAR DOWN EVERY FUCKING OTHER SPOKESMAN WE HAVE.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at March 09, 2009 08:03 PM (gEsIJ)

This demonstrates what you're not getting. Being a conservative is about the principles, not about the articulator of those principles. If "every fucking other spokesman 'we' have" starts articulating principles which are not conservative or starts bashing those who are still adhering to conservative principles, then, yes, they need to be "torn down" or publicly put in check. Example: if Rush starts spouting Leftist BS for real, he gets the swift kick too.

Conservatism is not a cult of personality.

607 How about, oh say,,,let's see, we try and bring them into the conservative movement, Drew?  You know, instead of telling them the leading conservative, Rush is the evil doer.
Posted by: me at March 09, 2009 10:35 PM (7zCg+)

Yeah, I'm all for that. The problem is we aren't there yet. We keep getting bogged down in fights over whether or not we should even be trying.

I hear a lot of 'fuck moderates/undecideds/non-conservatives'. I don't think that's a winning strategy.

We are going to have to accept that hardcore conservatives are not a majority and need a coalition with others. That will mean compromising on policy (not principal) but to say that simply invites a round of 'fuck the RINOs!'.

608 Okay,
A couple of more questions.

Do you think it is smart for a politician to use words like ugly or irrational to describe Limbaugh when trying to make a little space between them?

I don't think I was clear earlier. I showed how you could use the IHHF question to turn the discussion to policy. I am asking how you would turn the discussion to policy given that the DemSM talking head gets to ask the questions and may only be interested in watching you twist in the wind while he asks about quotes from a radio talk show host?

609 This reminds me of an old saying I once heard when I was a toddler:  Rush is right.

610 Okay, we're now at five votes saying that Rush tried to downplay this.

Note: at the Politico link, they show a picture of Newt and Rush messing around on some TV show, basically agreeing the the essential point (at a liberal website no less).

Somehow, that morphed to Allah's interpretation, which morphed Ace's interpretation... which proved Jeff G.'s point.

611

 DrewM

 

Again I ask could it be that your rebranding embarassed all us dumb shits to the point that we no longer wanted to vote for the Thurston Howe the 3rd party?

612 This dead horse deserves one last THWACK.

IMO, Newt was a total failure as house majority leader in 94.  He is the reason I joined the libertarian party.

613 The fact is, when you start worrying more about how to win than what is right and wrong, you lose no matter what happens.

614 "Okay, so if conservatives aren't a majority and we shouldn't focus on trying to add moderates to our column, how exactly do we win majorities?"

Do you read my entire comment, or just the first few words? Here, in smaller format: we stick to conservative principles. We don't throw people like Rush Limbaugh to the wolves when he says something the other side doesn't like -- especially if he's just echoing something most of us believe. We don't pander. We display leadership, not toadying. This will get us respect -- and that's the way to winning votes.

And I did say we might never win. There is always the possibility that the American people have become so decadent and craven that they'll be repelled rather than attracted by the values that our country was founded on.

615
That's "Thurston Howell." 

And my preferences are towards Mary Ann.

616

>MSM: Michael Steele, would YOU bone some random hot chick and divorce >your wife while she lies in a hospital bed dying?

>Michael Steele: I think that's a horrible, ugly thing to do. You know, >Newt, Newt is a bastard.

>MSM: You know republicans talk alot about family values, but then you see >them cheating on their dying wives. Do all republicans act like that?

>Michael Steele: *nods head* Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. Well I don't, and >I'm here now and I'm trying to change that.

Do they make a product that cleans Cheez-Its off of a monitor screen?

617 Posted by: carl at March 09, 2009 10:42 PM (EX+6L)

I did a whole post on how Steele should have turned the Nazi thing into an ad for the Republican Party (I'm about to pass out from cold medicine and can't find it) so I'm on board with that.

But...I can see how tactically someone like Gingrich or Gingrey or Cantor or whomever might want to create some distance between them and a guy like Limbaugh. I don't think they should be brought to heel for it.

618

Mr. Peabody

 

thanks for the tip been a long time since I saw the show but when i think rep anymore I think of him.  the snob that knows better and can not imagine living like the rest of us and is embarassed to be with us

619 just today one of the tree-huggiest of them came to me and out of the blue said " i wish Obama had never said anything about Rush Limbaugh" after i picked my jaw up off the ground, i asked her why she said that and she said "because it's getting all the neo-cons (she thinks we're all neo-cons) fired up and that's bad for us"

does that mean anything?

She mustn't be from Peoria, then. Therefore, it doesn't matter.

620 "Newt was a total failure as house majority leader in 94."

That's the nub of this brouhaha.  My guess is that Newt saw his rhetoric derail his program.

621
Yep. And I don't remember Reagan altering his message to "reach out" to Democrats. The way Steele and the others are talking it sounds like they're going put on a hispanic hat when they talk hispanic bloc, and put on a black hat when they talk to the balck community, and a gay hat...well, you get the idea.

Ronald Reagan wore one hat; he had one message: conservatism. He didn't solicit people with a demographically-designed sales pitch, he drew people in with his conservatism and optimism.

So-called Reagan Democrats flocked to Reagan because his policies and values were grounded in truth and reality. While the Democrats were shitting on America and promising more stupid government programs, Reagan talked about the greatness of America and how it can be even better if government stays out of the way.

622
Thurston Howell became John Kerry.

623 Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 10:43 PM (aVGmX)

What re-branding?

The principles are the same.

The policies are the same.

All I'm suggesting is we not be associated with "I want him to fail". Did that phrase really become part of the conservative cannon so quickly?

624 As I've said several times, my problem with Rush as the face of the party and/or movement is we won't win electorally with his brand of presentation. It simply doesn't attract those who aren't already on our side.

Is that really so controversial?

No, its just wrong.

You don't win by worrying about how the press will present your points, you win by presenting your points strongly and winningly in a way that the media can't overwhelm. Rush Limbaugh, when you actually look at what he said rather than what the media is spinning him to have said, was completely reasonable and no different than the majority of Democrats during the Bush administration. In fact, he put it much more intelligently and reasonably.

625

I don't agree with Steele, but I thought his point was that for the 'I want him to fail' line is hypocritical. Of course, Steele should have differentiated between the 2 statements, & read Rush's statement in context; but, he didn't.

I can see Ace's point, too. I would add: the problem is that popular opinion is driven by soundbites. We conservatives need to be better at articulating our principles *especially considering* this market, or we will get crushed.

626 "I hear a lot of 'fuck moderates/undecideds/non-conservatives'. I don't think that's a winning strategy."

And we've heard a lot of "if you don't distance yourself from Rush you're an idiot".  I don't think that will win you very many elections either.

627 What about the irrational thing?

628 As I've said several times, my problem with Rush as the face of the party and/or movement is we won't win electorally with his brand of presentation. It simply doesn't attract those who aren't already on our side.

Is that really so controversial?

Yes it is.. Rush's presentation is clear and unadulterated by nuance and spin. Any voter that can't be persuaded by a simple straightforward telling of common sense ideas is not worth our time and trouble.

Please stop trying to be so sophisticated and worldly and wake the fuck up.

629

We are going to have to accept that hardcore conservatives are not a majority and need a coalition with others. That will mean compromising on policy (not principal) but to say that simply invites a round of 'fuck the RINOs!'.

There's no such thing as compromising on policy with moderates because MODERATES DON'T HAVE A FUCKING POLICY. The very definition of a moderate is somebody who pays so little attention that they have no definable worldview. So they vote for whomever seems to be popular. It really doesn't matter what your policies are, so long as you have critical mass. Say you're for building a giant Jello bowl in the Atlantic ocean and they won't care. So you need to articulate truly conservative values in the most bold way possible to gather buzz. Tacking Left doesn't gather anything but yawns.

630 Posted by: Darling, just an entertainer at March 09, 2009 10:50 PM (wz2r0)

Reagan won almost 30 years ago. Do you think perhaps the country has changed a bit since then?

Principles stay the same but the policies that spring from them have to change to reflect the current issues we are facing and their presentation has to change as well. Regan didn't live in a world of 24/7 news and Al Gore hadn't invented the internet.

If our answer to everything is, 'that's not how we did it 30 years ago, we are fucked'.

631 Okay, just listened to the show.

Newsflash!  It's all fucking bullshit.  It is.

Rush downplayed the whole fucking thing and gave the caller about a quarter ounce of red meat because he knew people wanted it.

Allah is full of shit (even the Politico stuff was mild).  Ace trusted it Allah.  Bad decision or convenient hook.

632

@ 32 ..."The difference is that Newt (like Steele) is forced to offer comment about Rush's statement."

bullshit, neither is forced to do a fuckin thing. 

"But he does it anyway, instead of simply blowing it off. He could just say "Well, they're politicians, they're doing the political dance, don't hate the playa, hate the game." Instead he's hellbound to get into a high-profile scrape with anyone who doesn't toe the line."

more bullshit...that's a two way fuckin street. neither newt nor steele had to respond in the manner they did, they did not practice any form of communication skill that would help lessen the tenison (which by the way is their err mmm fucking job), they added fuel to the fire.

we've been attacked for years and rarely responded. i'm fuckin tired of it and will not take it anymore.

fuck steele, fuck newt, fuck allah

633 Okay, so if conservatives aren't a majority and we shouldn't focus on trying to add moderates to our column, how exactly do we win majorities?

I'm not Andrea, but can I take a stab at that?

We need to find strong, smart, unapologetic, articulate conservative leaders who in fair fights, will win.

I think we have the truth on our side. Don't you? When we find the right conservatives to express conservative principles during elections, the moderates tend to sway our way.

We do not need anymore weak kneed, mealy mouthed, glad-handing go-along-to get-along pansy assed phonies.

I don't think they inspire anybody.

634 Jesus Ace like any of this shit matters now.  Nobody is going to remember a damn thing of this 6 months from now much less 18 months from now.  Its just good theater.  Obama sinks or swims from the economy plain and simple.

Brian

635 I think Ace has decided to hold his breath until he turns purple because he has discovered something shocking to him: that we are his READERS, not his FOLLOWERS.

Guess he though all us mind-numbed little morons would just line right on up and board the anti-Limbaugh Ace Train.  That's the only explanation I can come up with for this particular adult exhibiting such childish behavior.

"Alright!  You won't stick with ME? OK... take THIS.  I'll just cross everything out and post something silly and ridiculous!  See?  It's like it's YOU are saying it!  Ha ha!  I guess I showed you!"

Sad.

636
I hear a lot of 'fuck moderates/undecideds/non-conservatives'. I don't think that's a winning strategy.

We are going to have to accept that hardcore conservatives are not a majority and need a coalition with others. That will mean compromising on policy (not principal) but to say that simply invites a round of 'fuck the RINOs!'.

You're right, DrewM.  We have to coalition with lots of people.  I think we have to be realistic about things like Specter.  But we have to recognize who is on the wrong side here.  People like Frum and even Newt don't bring anybody.  They are trying to bring publicity to themselves but not to any alternative movement.

But, frankly, the moderates are pretty weak tea.  We saw plenty of moderates either going to Obama (Buckley) or flirting with him hard (Brooks) or writing his last name after their first on their notebook (Frum).  They had the most desirable Republican candidate from their point of view that they ever could have had and it still wasn't enough for the siren song of the TelePrompTer Jesus.

She might be hot, but at some point, her flirting with other guys just ain't worth the trouble.

637

What the hell?  Why can't we just come together and squash the Dems in 2010?  All of this inter-fighting is REALLY bad.

unmtil we get rid of guys like Frum, Brooks, Parker, Or AllahPunsit we'll have to keep doing that

638 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 09, 2009 10:50 PM (PQY7w)

Again, you can tell me all day about, "actually look at what he said rather than what the media is spinning him to have said" and all I can say is the vast majority of Americans won't do that.

You can wish they look at the full quote but the fact is they won't. That's the reality of the situation.

So we can either deal with the facts as they are (a lot of people think Rush and therefore Republicans want Obama to fail) or we can yell at each other about context.

639 "Newt was a total failure as house majority leader in 94."

Well, first off, he didn't become majority leader until '95. And how you'd judge him a failure during that year, when he brought to the floor of the House almost every single item in the Contract with America within 100 days, and the House passed most of them; well, I guess that's how you define "total failure...." and why you're a Libertarian, given their amazingly successful track record of implementing their ideas.

640 294 >>>When did he insist on this?

Last fucking month. A Rep had to apologize because Rush blew up at him for saying something like, "Of course I don't want the country to fail under Obama, that's crazy."

And also see:

Steele, Michael

Gingrich, Newt

If people don't apologize, they get the wrath of Limbaugh's listenership.

So it wasn't Rush who insisted that these turds apologize, it was his listeners.

Again, if Don Imus' listeners had been as numerous, loyal, and vocal as Rush's, Imus would not be on RFD-TV.

Or, if Rush had said something even as remotely close to the line that Imus crossed, his (Rush's) listeners would abandon him.

So why does Newt need to characterize Rush as irrational? And why did Steele have to call his remarks ugly? And, why oh why are these dudes surprised when his listeners take that personally?

641 What re-branding?

The principles are the same.

The policies are the same.

All I'm suggesting is we not be associated with "I want him to fail". Did that phrase really become part of the conservative cannon so quickly?

Posted by: DrewM at March 09, 2009 10:50 PM (hlYel)

I not only want him to fail but i want him to fail so bad that liberalism becomes a dirty word for 10 generations.  i want his policies to fail I want him as a president to fail .  If the country could servive the failed policies of FDR for 14 years I think the USa can survive a failed two years of Obama.

 

 

642 I repeat, multiple people have said it, so I've listened to it myself.  Rush gave the smallest possible provocation possible.

People who say otherwise are lying or trusting people they shouldn't.

643

Finding 'articulate' conservatives has proven to be difficult...Not everyone can be "The Great Communicator".

For starters, the current GOP leadership needs Communication & Engagement 101.

644 I wouldn't cry any tears for poor Newt. He's no political naif. He knew precisely what he was doing and what the fallout would be.

645 "Example: if Rush starts spouting Leftist BS for real, he gets the swift kick too.

Conservatism is not a cult of personality."

Thank you!  One of the best things about Rush is that, in sixteen years of listening, I can't think of a single instance of him ever going wobbly on matters of conservative principle.  The man is a treasure.

646 Okay, just listened to the show.

Newsflash!  It's all fucking bullshit.  It is.

Rush downplayed the whole fucking thing and gave the caller about a quarter ounce of red meat because he knew people wanted it.

Allah is full of shit (even the Politico stuff was mild).  Ace trusted it Allah.  Bad decision or convenient hook.

Thanks for following up with this.  I heard the exchange today and Hot Air/AP headline of "Rush rips Newt" is indeed bullshit. 

If Rush was going to rip Newt, you'd fucking know it.

647 Seems the AoS staff and Allah think that if asked about Rush it has to be either a Rush lynching or a Rush cocksucking. What a fucking retarded position to take.

QFT.  This has in face been Ace's position.  He takes a thousand statements of "they don't have to support the statement, but neither do they have to call him "vile", "irrational", "ugly" or the million other adjectives they use, and he repeats, in all caps no less, that Rush insists everyone pays him fealty.

This is so fucking retarted, on every fucking level, that I'm having a hard time believing Ace is really this stupid.  No.  Something smells strongly here.

Qwinn

648

Well, first off, he didn't become majority leader until '95. And how you'd judge him a failure during that year, when he brought to the floor of the House almost every single item in the Contract with America within 100 days, and the House passed most of them; well, I guess that's how you define "total failure...." and why you're a Libertarian, given their amazingly successful track record of implementing their ideas.

well said, the guy made bubah conservative enough to get re-elected against a horrible candidate (Dole) in 96, when you make the opposing party's president govern with you i say you're a sucess

649 "That will mean compromising on policy..."

Which policies do you have in mind?  I'm not budging on pro-life.

650

 

As I've said several times, my problem with Rush as the face of the party and/or movement is we won't win electorally with his brand of presentation. It simply doesn't attract those who aren't already on our side.

Is that really so controversial?

Yes!

First off Rush is not the face of the party but he echoes our concerns.

Who are those? If they're borderline pussies, I don't want them.

651 >>Awe. Thanks Drew. It wouldn’t be a Drewian retort without the creamy, rich condescensiony goodness slathered all over it.

Coulda sworn I said the same thing months ago. Oh wait. I did.

652 So if you're going to compromise on pro-life, make sure you're getting at least two moderates for everyone like me you lose.

653

#620

not Peoria exactly, Champaign-Urbana, it's only a few hundred cornfields away

654 Fuck.  600 posts on this now?  Yawwnnnn.  Dont care.  Controversy stirs interest, which makes more people pay more attention.  Rush wants more.  Newt wants more.  Frum wants more.  They all survive by being big names in the public eye. 

And I am starting to think that certain bloggers are doing it for that reason too.  Rough economy guys?

655 I think we have the truth on our side. Don't you?
Posted by: Nice Deb at March 09, 2009 10:55 PM (MHx40)

I don't think truth has much to do with the outcomes of elections.

Consider this...in the Reagan sweep of 1980, NY elected Al D'Amato to the Senate to replace Jacob Javitz (a Rockefeller Republican, aka, a fairly liberal guy). Al's lifetime ACU rating was around 50. That's the same as the Maine gals.

Would you take Al over Chukie Shumer or do we hold out for a real conservative? Do you want the Maine gals or some Democrats but with a more purely conservative Republican minority caucus?

These are the kind of things we need to consider in the real world.

656

Allah is full of shit

 

when isn't he?

657 Last!

658 Reagan won almost 30 years ago. Do you think perhaps the country has changed a bit since then?

Principles stay the same but the policies that spring from them have to change to reflect the current issues we are facing and their presentation has to change as well. Regan didn't live in a world of 24/7 news and Al Gore hadn't invented the internet.

If our answer to everything is, 'that's not how we did it 30 years ago, we are fucked'.

Posted by: DrewM at March 09, 2009 10:53 PM (hlYel)

 

Yeah and the founders worte the consitution more that 200 years ago before cars  and you point?    the principle of divided gov works and works well for individual libertry should we change that principle because it is like 200 years ago and we got TV and everything now? 

The principles of individual freedom still works, personal responsibility keeping the fruits of your labor.  All still work which of those principles you wan t to get rid of

659

Focus your fire on the Dems already people - that goes for you to Rushbo!

660

Reagan won almost 30 years ago. Do you think perhaps the country has changed a bit since then?

Nope. As I suspected, we have a fundamental disagreement on how to win. My way is to return to what's worked in the past and your way is to "modernize" the party for the 21st century.

You know what's funny, Drew? Obama repackaged and regurgitated the same old failed liberal policies they've been campaigning on for the last 40 years and he won. Why should we change when 1) they haven't and 2) we failed with a moderate candidate not a conservative candidate in the last election? I still have confidence that Conservatism beats Leftism in America.

661

You know, McCain threw Palin at the base like a spear.  I don't even know if I'm part of the base; I'm probably more libertarian than anythng else. 

Liberals don't hate their base.  Not at all.  They just know they need to be quiet.

But Republicans hate their base, and that's bound to end in tears and complete dysfuntion.  You can't poach their replacement from the middle, no matter what you offer them or how you phrase that offer.

662 The principles of individual freedom still works, personal responsibility keeping the fruits of your labor.  All still work which of those principles you wan t to get rid of
Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 11:04 PM (aVGmX)

And because you write that it makes it true some how? I suppose you can show me something I've written that says I want to do away with all of that.

Let me save you the google time...I never have.

663 Has the country changed in 30 years? No. This is still a center-right nation. I have Lefty co-workers who voted for Obama. What's the bee in their collective bonnet? That government is playing games in the private sector. Even the center-left is essentially conservative; they just don't know it. If somebody comes along articulating conservative values in a believable way, 60% of the population will eat it up. Bush came close to doing it and won handily. We need candidates who are brave enough to ignore the fake media opinions and speak directly to the electorate. Newt, McCain, and Steele are not those candidates.

664 Drew, leaders take command of the situation. Moderation and carefully crafted presentation is a recipe for failure.

If the vast majority of Americans are unaware of what Conservatism is really all about, then it is up to us to make them aware.

Rush does this every day. His following is growing. Get out of the fucking way.

665 I don't drink and drive, which either makes me superior to Newt or to Rush or to Ace or to Allah or to Jeff G, or to Sarah Palin, or I-don't-know-who, but I'm superior to some-fucking-body

Charles Barkley. The big, fat, milk-dud-headed Obama-cocksucker.

666

If our answer to everything is, 'that's not how we did it 30 years ago, we are fucked'.

bush won like that in 04 bud

667 Again, you can tell me all day about, "actually look at what he said rather than what the media is spinning him to have said" and all I can say is the vast majority of Americans won't do that.

Hey, if even you won't why should we expect anyone to? And face facts: anything he says or that any conservative says will get the same treatment from the press. They're our enemy. Wording things differently won't change that. You're like my mom, she's always convinced if she can just find the right way to say something, all her troubles will go away and everyone will agree with her. Life ain't like that, sunshine.

All this panicking over moderates and attacking the guys on our side makes me think that you guys are flat panicking. LIke a dog so terrified it bites everyone who comes near, even when they're friendly. Good lord, its been less than 2 months since Obama took office, we've got years to go. We ain't gonna turn this around with the magic technique and words in a matter of weeks.

President Obama is rapidly wearing out his welcome, and the halo has fallen off long ago. People are getting sick of the guy's ego, his failure to follow through on promises, his radical leftist ideas, and his gigantic bloated spending. We're already winning and we aren't doing a thing. Stop freaking out, how young are you guys anyway? When Nixon resigned, everyone was certain that the GOP was dead and the left had won; it sure looked that way. six years later Reagan changed everything.

668 Oh, and if anyone thinks that Patterico was walking back on this, take another look.  He's gone full-bore asshole on this exact thread.  Lots of "cult" smearing to enjoy.

669 "53 So if you're going to compromise on pro-life, make sure you're getting at least two moderates for everyone like me you lose."


Ditto for me.


Get how I cleverly (in my own mind) used a Rush reference?

670

Anyone consider that we might still have more Rs in Congress if it weren't for the 'you have to agree with me 100% or else" idea. Seriously, gridlock would be much better than what is going on right now.

I'm not so sure another Reagan is going to rise from the ashes of this fiasco. Do I hope so? Absolutely. But ask yourself this--was it worth it?

What is the country is permanently destroyed? What then?

671

Bush came close to doing it and won handily.

he won close in 00/04 but did win preety good with a great turnout, he would have had a landslide had the dui in 00 not struck

672 As I've said several times, my problem with Rush as the face of the party and/or movement is we won't win electorally with his brand of presentation. It simply doesn't attract those who aren't already on our side.

Is that really so controversial?

Posted by: DrewM at March 09, 2009 10:38 PM (hlYel)

This is a valid point Drew, however, how can we know this?  What evidence do you present to support this statement? We haven't had mainstream candidates running for office who have this "brand of presentation".  Will it work?  I can't say.  But what I can say is that this dried-up broken-down Chechnyan whore of a thread probably has more value than we all realize in the debate over our party's future.

673 So we can either deal with the facts as they are (a lot of people think Rush and therefore Republicans want Obama to fail) or we can yell at each other about context.


1. Most everyday people don't even know this shit is going on.

2. Those that do know damn well what Rush meant, even if they claim to be offended by it.  Those people cannot be convinced to come to our side regardless of what we do.

3. The backlash in the MSM about this nonsense is already happening, even the lib columnists and Howard Dean himself are saying Obama is wasting his time talking about Rush. 

4. The libs will ALWAYS take things out of context.  If we are going to manage our discourse in such a way as to not give them sound bytes, we might as well pack it in right now.  That is so weak it is pathetic and they will just MAKE SHIT UP ANYWAY, whether one of our leading figures says anything contraversial or not.  THAT IS WHAT THEY DO. 

THEY KEY IS NOT TO GET SUCKED IN TO IT, WE WILL PREVAIL ON THIS ISSUE IN THE END, NO TIME TO GET WEAK NOW.  Nobody criticizing Rush could hold a candle to either his accomplishments or come close to taking his place. 

The libs are after Rush because they FEAR HIM, that is GOOD THING.  Having a conservative voice that is right 90% of the time on the radio 3 hours per day to a huge audience is INDEPSENSABLE.  He started the alternative media which eventually led to blogs like this. Newt isn't moving the ball down the field anymore at all.

674 Posted by: Darling, just an entertainer at March 09, 2009 11:05 PM (wz2r0)

So you are simply going to ignore the demographic changes in this country, the movement of population across the country and myriad other factors?

Party like it's 1980!

You might want to remember that Reagan wasn't all that successful in implementing a lot of his conservative agenda despite his vast personal popularity.

Remember the promise to get rid of the Departments of Energy and Education? How about cutting the size of the federal budget? Didn't turn out so great, eh?

I'm not saying Reagan wasn't great and didn't have a tough hand to play (like a Democratic House) but I think we need to be honest about the success and the failures of the Reagan Revolution.

675 ARGH.........Drew, how about we expect people like Steele and Newt to change the public's perception of it rather than go with the dem flow?  Why do you insist that the people on the strong side of the issue compromise to the weak?  The weak will never sustain the party.

676 To a certain extent, now that I know this latest Rush tie-in is a phony, might this not be the natural separation of 9/11 hawkish liberals from conservatives?

Allah clearly fits the bill.  Same with Frum, Dreher, etc.  Ace, I don't think so.  DrewM. I don't think so.

Something is going on here though.

677 I'm sure this has been brought up in the prior 600 comments, but I've been calling Gingrich a "whiny liberal sell-out" for years before the whole Limbaugh flap and--I'm sorry--it's completely warranted.

The Newt Gingrich of 1994 contributed a lot to our party.

The problem is Gingrich also played a large role in the Republican Party losing any spine to fight Clinton in the budget battles in 1996/1997 and losing any spine to follow through on the Contract with America.  Read Tom Coburn's Breach of Trust (written after he left the House and before he ran for the Senate) if you think I'm being too harsh here.

Newt Gingrich played a big role in the Republican Party becoming the bloated big government monstrosity that nobody trusts today to follow through with its principles.  That's the guy you see before you.  He's an interesting guy to listen to when giving speeches or talking about history, but, beyond that, good riddance.

678

actually i think this debate serves a better purpose than racking up website hits, first, it gets all this out in the open draining off some of the raw emotion, second, they may not read this blog (who am i kidding they don't read anything) but the party leaders are getting wind of this, which means they are getting an earful of what we think (whether they like it or not) hopefully this will result in a more unified party come Oct. 2010.

we may be small in number but we represent many, many more most of whom aren't as plugged in as we are, but still feel the same as we do

 

679

When Nixon resigned, everyone was certain that the GOP was dead and the left had won; it sure looked that way. six years later Reagan changed everything.

LBJ destroyed the GOP in 64, the next 10 presidential elections saw the GOP win 7-3

680

 DrewM at March 09, 2009 11:07 PM (hlYel)

then you logic is faulty.  if you believe in limited gov being the best for individual freedom and you believe in keeping the fruits of your labor and you believe in personal responsibility there are only so many policies you can have.  I mean you can't very well be for big gov and small gov at the same time.   You can't on the one hand cut taxes and on the other grow gov expotentially.  oh wait that's what Bush did and yet they wonder why he lost the base that still believed in small gov. 

 

And if you believe in those principles then you have to treasure the document that states that and if you do that you have to believe in borders in which that document holds sway.  And if/when you go to war you should trumpet that document as a basis for the gov of the conquered nation to form not some religious nut case gov that stones women.

 

To be moderate menas you have to give up on your principles

681 I can't believe you guys are still at this. Well, let me help pad your website traffic numbers by adding an important point from Brick (Steve Carrell) in "Ron Burgundy":

LOUD NOISES!

682

Allah clearly fits the bill. 

amen to that

683 Wheeeeeee! Shark-jumping!!!  This shit is fun!!!!

684 This is still a center-right nation

I've never bought that.

I think the country is center-right in temperament but not so much in reality.

We talk a good game about the old days of rugged individualism but a lot of people still want their turn at the government teat. What's the last government program that was shut down? What's the last area people demanded the government get out of?

Even before Obama people were voting Republican but demanding a Medicare drug benefit! More money for education! More money for farmers! More money for transportation! More money for.....you name it.

Even solidly conservative districts and states want their representatives to bring home the bacon.

I'd say that 'less government' thing is honored more in the breach than in reality.

685 Newt was on "Meet the Press" and he was okay, mort zuckerman? kept disagreeing with him but, I always cross someone off the list of potential candidates for anything when the Dems suggest they be a candidate.  Sort of like they did with John McCain.

686 I have a question for you morons. Let's say you are standing on top of a building, it just so happens, obama, pelosi and reid walk by the building. Who do you pee on first? Since, women basically have no aim when it comes to pissing, I would try to aim for obama, simply to see the shocked look on his follwers faces because some dared to pee on their dear leader's face.

687
So you are simply going to ignore the demographic changes in this country...?

Okay, for argument's sake let's say I agree with you. Tell me how we bring in these people.

Are you saying you want to, for example, pander to the immigrants? If yes, how? Are you going to promise them a big government program of handouts to bribe them?

Reagan would promise them something, too. He would tell them to work hard, play by the rules, and he'd promise to not dig into their paychecks with wasteful government spending and he would promise to protect them from our enemies' nukes so maybe they can achieve the American dream.

688

I have a question for you morons. Let's say you are standing on top of a building, it just so happens, obama, pelosi and reid walk by the building. Who do you pee on first? Since, women basically have no aim when it comes to pissing, I would try to aim for obama, simply to see the shocked look on his follwers faces because some dared to pee on their dear leader's face.

i'd take the messiah too

689

I think the country is center-right in temperament but not so much in reality.

And I would agree. What you need is someone who knows how to take that temperament and TIE it to reality. That is what Reagan really did--nothing more. And that is what Rush does. But you can't do that if you're so afraid of your own shadow that you curl up into a fetal position every time somebody challenges you.

690 OMG. Baldilocks brings the cojones. Serious increase in the testosterone level.

.....and B, I wanna have your baby....

691 >>Oh, and if anyone thinks that Patterico was walking back on this, take another look. He's gone full-bore asshole on this exact thread. Lots of "cult" smearing to enjoy.

But of course he did. You can feel the seething condescension inches below from everyone who agrees with him on every comment they make on this thread.

Hi Gabe. Hi Drew. Hi Ace.

Say hi to Allah.

You guys are willing to accept the dishonesty of the left to pander for votes, and you look down on us?

Rodger that. Good luck with your strategy.

692 687 I have a question for you morons. Let's say you are standing on top of a building, it just so happens, obama, pelosi and reid walk by the building. Who do you pee on first? Since, women basically have no aim when it comes to pissing, I would try to aim for obama, simply to see the shocked look on his follwers faces because some dared to pee on their dear leader's face.

I, too, suffer from aim-itis, therefore I would turn around a dump a load on them all.

That's why I am maintaining a steady diet of chili dogs and cabbage rolls.

693 Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 11:17 PM (aVGmX)

I believe in limited government. If I were in charge and could have my way, I'd eliminate huge chunks of the government.

Here's the thing...I'm far out of the political mainstream of this country. I accept that. I know I will never see my preferences reflected in the policies of a major party. My only hope is to keep one party (the Republicans) as close to me as I can. The reality is however, if they are ever going to win they won't ever really be that close to me.

I wish it were otherwise but if Reagan couldn't do it, I'm not sure who can or will. Not because it's not the right thing (it is) it's simply not able to command a majority of voters in this country.

694 bottom line, the leaders are going to have to come to the base, because the base ain't budging. they don't like that, i'm past caring what they like.

695 JeffB, you sound like a condescending ass. New flash, kissing Ace's bottom will not win you points with Ace or anyone else around here. In fact, it makes you look a little like Mikey Buckley, prominent douche bag and poseur extraordinaire.


If Ace despises us and thinks we're stupid he can say that for himself.


If you want to despise us and say we're stupid that's okay too.

696 Fine, I'm convinced. We should all announce that we want President Obama to succeed. Maybe the people who blog here can append that thought to every post.

Of course, then the Democrats will simply ask "So how can you support those mean ole Republicans in Congress as they try to block Obama's agenda? You want Obama to succeed, right?"

Sorry, but I don't get this bowel-loosening fear some people have that we'll be seen as on the opposite side from Obama. I think some people have been brainwashed by the media into thinking that the American people adore The One. They don't. His ratings are dropping almost as fast as the stock market.

697

 DrewM

I didn't hear a loud call for a medical drug benefit from Reps.  That was rove and Bush trying to buy votes from the seniors.   The no child left behind bill was attacked by the left and the right as an attack on local control and choice.  The farm bill was a pork fest that conservatives in Congress and the heartland were against but bush allowed it to go thru all $5billion of it

transportation is a legitiamte gov function and the gov has a duty and right to improve the transportation system to ensure a good economy and easy movement in time of war.

 

The proble was that most of the above crapped was passed by the  by the president to win the votes of the moderates and it ended up costing him his base and he finish with a 30% approval rating.  The base left him after he went native

698 "I have a question for you morons."

Hmmm, that's a fascinating question, Ginger.  If my bladder felt really full, I would aim for whoever was in the lead and then let my stream drift back and forth in order to get all three of them.

If there was a problem, though -- if, say, I didn't really need to go, I might try shoving my finger down my throat in order to puke on them.

Best case scenario?  I drop trou and fling a deuce at Obama.

699

I do think the Country is now center-left and likely to continue to drift further left for many reasons.

And that makes David Brooks right when he says limited government is dead.  Energetic, wholesome government should be the cry of a conservatism that can win.

 

700 Reagan would promise them something, too. He would tell them to work hard, play by the rules, and he'd promise to not dig into their paychecks with wasteful government spending and he would promise to protect them from our enemies' nukes so maybe they can achieve the American dream.
Posted by: Darling, just an entertainer at March 09, 2009 11:23 PM (wz2r0)

Yeah, and then he would sign budget and tax bills that did just that because the political reality demanded it.

Reagan did a lot of great things but let's not pretend he dismantled the New Deal or Great Society or shrank the government's reach into people's lives. Perhaps he did on the margins (but unless you touch Social Security, AFDC, Medicare and Medicaid you really haven't touch the heart of the problem). He may have slowed their growth but dismantle? Nope.

701 These are the kind of things we need to consider in the real world.

I'm talking about national politics, not certain uber liberal enclaves that believe in the nannystate. We can't win there, obviously, unless we put up a RINO. But those enclaves don't represent all of America. You don't want to talk to America the same way you would talk to liberals/moderates on the Upper East Side. That actually turns most folks off.

I'm saying that most of Americans will respond favorably to a conservative message when it's presented with intelligence and confidence.  That means being unapologetic and bold - not backing down if when the media attacks.

702
I'm going to be like a muslim in that 5 times a day I'm going to face Washington D.C. and say out loud, "I hope Obama fails."

703 I hate to be the one who says this. We need to stop cannibalizing ourselves on this topic. We have some disagreements on how to argue the left, we all can see that. Ace et al position's while I disagree with them are not truly "out there" and deserving of such derision. This is our forum for sharing ideas, even in disagreement. I have said before, it is vitally important that we come away from this internal debate with some sort of unity (as much as that is possible in a diverse community) on how to argue and proceed. I have always prided conservatism as the intellectual bastion of the freeman. We may argue the topic, but we cannot smash our very underpinning pillars and burn our forum to the ground for what amounts to a disagreement of semantics. Ladies and gentlemen we need not throw Ace nor Allah out in the cold, our pride is the fact we believe with reason, we can convince any to follow our arguments. I'm not saying quit the discussion, but can we lay down the pitchforks and torches in favor of the soap box before we execute ourselves, with the left laughing erily at our own induced demise?

704 I just wanted to say;

Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, fuck you, I'm out....


I'm going to side with Levin and call Jeff G's post accurately sums things up.  Allah and Ace need to clean the sand out of their twats before they wind up with pearls.  You're not being crucified every time someone disagrees with you, so man up; agree to disagree. Seriously. Time to move on. 

705 By the way, and I don't mean this flippantly, I like people who can predict the future.  It's the reason that JackStraw gets a wild amount of respect for a non-poster around here.

Make some predictions, lay out some territory.  If you're eventually proven right, you'll get that respect.

706 Anyone consider that we might still have more Rs in Congress if it weren't for the 'you have to agree with me 100% or else" idea.

Right, that's the big problem with the GOP, lock-step conformity of opinion. If only we allowed a wide range of view points, like the Democrats do, everything would be peachy.

Since you don't seem too bright, yes, I'm being sarcastic.

707

I repeat, multiple people have said it, so I've listened to it myself.  Rush gave the smallest possible provocation possible.

People who say otherwise are lying or trusting people they shouldn't.

Just got the chance to listen to it myself. You're right. 700+ fucking comments about a non-story.

For someone who professed to want to end this squabble, Ace should have done a little more homework.

708 Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 11:27 PM (aVGmX)

It's rather convenient that you absolve Republicans of all blame for things that happened while they were in control. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

And since when do conservatives believe transportation projects are a federal issue?

Did I miss another memo?

More to the point, I was talking about elected officials liking those things (though they do), I'm talking about the public at large. Look, we didn't spend all that money during the Bush years against the wishes of the American people. Spending is not a case courageous polticians spending money in the face of demands by citizens to spend less.

The country loves them some pork and are willing to accept the bigger government they complain about while demanding government 'do something' about any number of things.

709 God, Drew, you sure are great at pep talks!

Ever think about running for office?

Everything you are saying comes straight from Jimmy Carter's malaise speech.

710 These pussified so-called conservatives need to man up. How about this:

"Hey all you libtards can fuck yourselves with a sideways broomstick. Oh, and vote for me!"

711 I'd say that 'less government' thing is honored more in the breach than in reality.

So, what's the answer?  Do nothing, talk nice, go along?  Don't bother pointing out that big government comes with big power?  Let's make a point and try to live by it -- but let's don't shout or embarrass anyone?

You know, your argument could be used to justify any oppressive environment.  "Don't revolt against the Bolsheviks or there will be famine and stuff! You say you want freedom and the right to own stuff but you really don't."

So now we see why it has all come unraveled.  From Ronald Reagan, who woke up a lot of people about this claptrap (and who was, surprisingly, echoing some of the very same people that put this country together under a Constitutuion -- really, it's true, I can give you links) -- and he had to go against this same mindset. "Voodoo economics!"

Those who are jumping on Rush Limbaugh right now -- another plain-speaking conservative who has made liberals froth at the mouth since 1988 -- are the same ones that wanted to shush Ronald Reagan. Proof that the road to hell isn't paved with good intentions but paved with the chicken hearts of those who don't really believe in what they claim to believe.

No finer example of that can be found than in this lawyer-like parlor game that was played on Rush this past few days in the halls of "conservatism". 

None of these puckered assholes would respect Ronald Reagan.  That's what I'm beginning to realize now.  Reagan made the liberals uncomfortable, too, and was quite willing to speak directly to their idiocy and turn the tables.  Rush has been doing it while most of these phoney-come-latelies were still building bongs in college. 

What a sorry spectacle it has been from some calling themselves "conservative".  Well, you are most certainly not conservatives.  You're some mutant breed that will blow away to La La Liberal land at the first storm.

So ends a once great country.  Enjoy your Medicare.

712 Hey, I know I've set myself up here as taking on all comers but there were some comments I didn't get to because there were a lot and the whole hopped up on cough medicine thing.

If I didn't respond to a direct question or challenge, sorry. I'm not ignoring you, the screen is just getting blurry.

713

DrewM at March 09, 2009 11:24 PM (hlYel)

And that is our disagreement.  i believe you and I are not out of the mainstream of voters but out of the mainstream of the "leaders"  whose jobs depend on an ever growing gov.   therefore the best election stratagy is not to pander to those leaders desire for more control and power but to pander to the voters you yearn for more freedom and less gov.

Obama ran on tax cuts, fighting a bigger war in afganistain, no gun control, etc he lied but he ran a conservative campaign when he went for the moderates.  He did not go on the debate and talk about cap and trade and bankrupting the coal industry.  He went on the debate and talked about a tax cut for 95% of the population.  McCain talked about pork and capital gains.  Which was the more conservative postion limted gov control for 95% of the population or helping a few stay away from the clutches of the IRS

714 Posted by: eman at March 09, 2009 11:35 PM (f0dGF)

How so?

715

Holy shit!

Over 700 comments, does anybody actually read through all these? I guess this whole thing may be bad for the Republican party (not to be confused with conservatives), but it sure doesn't hurt the ol' sitemeter, huh?

My question is; do Ewoks go through some hormonal rage thing during mating season, you know, like Spock did in that one Star Trek episode?

Cuz that would explain a lot.

716

Energetic, wholesome government

There is no such beast.  Human nature dictates axiomatically that an “energetic” government will become a tyrannical one; it’s only a matter of time.  Take the always-energetic Barack Obama, for example.  He’ll go “full tyrant” before his first year in office is up.

On it’s very best day, government in all of its forms is no better than a necessary evil, and its motives should be distrusted and its advances resisted relentlessly.  I can listen to re-packaging strategies emphasizing “closer government” as opposed to “smaller government”, but a “wholesome government” is bullshit nonsense.  And nothing approximating that ideal will ever come out of Washington no matter who is running the show.

I’m pretty sure that these sentiments are in one of those Stuff Jefferson Said books you can find at Amazon.

717 Hmmmm.

@ DrewM

"Okay, so if conservatives aren't a majority and we shouldn't focus on trying to add moderates to our column, how exactly do we win majorities?"

By showing that being a conservative -is the solution-.

718

MLD, Drew,

even if i am the only one standing there, i will stand on these 3 hills

smaller government

traditional american values

robust national defense (which includes controlling the border)

 

719

BTW, in October 2007 Ontario's provincial Liberal Party badly beat the Progressive Conservatives (yes, it is "Progressive" Conservatives).

The PCs' leader, John Tory (yes, that really is his surname), not only lost the election badly but failed to even retain his own seat in the Provincial Parliament. He was the exact sort of moderate being pushed by the RINOs as the key to success for the GOP--socially liberal and pretty much the same economic policies as the Liberals. And he just lost a bye-election (what you would call a "special election" in the U.S.) in a safe, Conservative riding so he's quit as party leader.

BTW, the liberal, Liberal rag, the Toronto Star, thought he was great choice to lead the PC Party, just like the NYT loved McCain in the Primaries, and wanted him to stay on as party leader. Gee, I wonder why? (And FYI the "Mike Harris" mentioned in Kate's comments was the former, successful, more Reaganesque PC leader who won two large majorities despite 80% of the MSM attacking him continually.)

720

More to the point, I was talking about elected officials liking those things (though they do), I'm talking about the public at large. Look, we didn't spend all that money during the Bush years against the wishes of the American people. Spending is not a case courageous polticians spending money in the face of demands by citizens to spend less.

 

 you miss that 30%  approval rating.  fiscal conservatives voted for Obama this time around libertians voted for obama this time.  The only people that voted for Mccain enmass this time around were social cons.  that was due to the run away spending.  you miss the Ron Paul movement where 10% of rep voted for a quack because he was talking fiscal conservatism? 

721 Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 11:38 PM (aVGmX)

But that's where the schizoid nature of America comes in. Everyone wants to hear about less taxes but not less spending. We spent a long time running up debt trying to get the proverbial free lunch and now we are paying for it because it doesn't exist.

What government program do you think there's an appetite in the public to cut? I'm not talking about earmarks, I'm talking the big ticket items (so-called "entitlements"). Obama is going to cut defense and that's a mistake but it's about the only big discretionary area to cut.

I'd love to elect a non-nutter version of Ron Paul and let him have his way with the budget but there would be riots in the street if that ever happened.

The only way to dismantle to welfare state we have is though a total crash of our economy that's even worse than Obama is trying to scare people with. There's simply no appetite for it outside the precincts of blogs like this and we ain't shit when all is said and done.

722
Obama ran on tax cuts, fighting a bigger war in afganistain, no gun control...

Actually, (and this is genius of Obama), he did indeed run on the above, but he also ran on the other side of the fence, too.

Obama could promise he was going to win in Afghanistan AND bring all the troops home immediately in the same sentence. He could promise to cut taxes AND to raise taxes (for some) in the same sentence. He promised to be tough with Iran in the same sentence as he promised to allow Iran to have nukes if they want them. It was amazing.

723 Qwinn:

"This is so fucking retarted, on every fucking level, that I'm having a hard time believing Ace is really this stupid.  No.  Something smells strongly here."

I'm thinking that maybe on that Middle East junket Ace got hold of some bad Syrian Nazi hobo. Or maybe it's the lingering effects of Val-U-Rite vodka deprivation (I guess they didn't provide any at CPAC). Your guess is as good as mine.

Or maybe gebrauchshund is right, and it's ewok mating season. Someone ask Allah if Ace is giving off a musky scent. That's usually how you can tell.

724

707 Ad hominem.

No, those who want 100% agreement are the libertarian conservatives. For example, I was talking about dumping people like "Santorum*.

Would it be nice to have politicians that agree with us 100% of the time? Yes--but it will never happen.

Also, there are many different types of conservatives. I have heard many calls, especially at LGF, for the social cons & religious cons to be dumped because they aren't 'realists' & 'can't' win elections. This too is extremism.

725

Memomachine, what is a fucking "moderate"????????????

??

It is a fucking misnomer. You are probably as "moderate" as any normal lawabiding taxpayer.

 

What you are really trying to describe are the "in betweeners", the folks in between the Republican and the Democratic parties.

726 "Over 700 comments, does anybody actually read through all these?"

That's about the only cool thing about this whole mess. Some poor schmuck is being paid slightly over minimum wage by a George Soros front organization to read through all these comments and come up with the definitive Moby reply to this thread.

As Mr. T used to say, "Pity the fool."

727 Unseen: Ron Paul is not a quack, Huckabee is a big gov't quack.

728 >>counter at March 09, 2009 11:32 PM (SL3qo)


Ok, I'll cook you a steak but the BJ is not happening.


Seriously, thanks. Nice thing to say.

729 Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 11:45 PM (aVGmX)

I wish it were true but if there's this critical mass of the public who wants spending cuts in reality and not just rhetorically at election time, why exactly has government grown unchecked for over 40 years?

At some point (Reagan's two terms, or the '94 Gingrich revolution) this group should have asserted itself. And yet, government continues to grow. Even when the budget was balanced for a year or two it was at a higher rate because so much tax money was coming in even they couldn't spend it all (and a lot of it was BS counting of SS money that will have to be replaced some day).

Government has not gotten smaller, it's a simple fact..

730
Obama's best line: "I'm going to make government work for you."

Wow what a novel concept! Why hasn't anyone else thought of that before?

I'll bet my left nut that someone else said those exact words before Obama. Hmmm, I wonder if it was a Marxist...

731 Because you have given up, Drew.

The Federal Godzilla can be defeated. Obama, blessed be the Goddess Irony, will make it so. But, only if Conservatives, united in purpose and voice, are ready and willing to fight.

There is no fight left in you. That is why you hide behind presentation and policy compromises.

In your mind the Emperor has already won.

732

730 It's due to the fact that the part's of government that are growing are all "sacred cows" created by FDR.

 

733 No problem, JackStraw.  The other day I saw a M1 ratio at Mankiw or Cowen and thought, Yep, JackStraw mentioned this a few months ago during the TARP debate.  Or, maybe you predicted that Whoopi would dislike higher taxes.  One of those anyways.

734 707 You are also interpreting my comment as support for Steele & Newt, when I don't support their "cower-in-the-corner" approach at all. My point is that the GOP needs to get a spine, & the base doesn't need to move so far to the right that it embraces anarcho-libertarianism. 

735

i guess i am a dying breed then, because a few years ago i was having some serious back problems, couldn't work for a while, lost everything, didn't have 2 dimes to rub together, my doctor offered to sign the paperwork for me to get disablity, it was very tempting, i literally didn't know how i was going to pay the bills that coming month, but i just couldn't do it, things were real tough for a while (I can't eat popcorn ever again) but eventually things got better, i got back to work and now i'm back on my feet again, i thank God i didn't take that disablity, because if i had i'd still be there.

if i'm a sucker for not taking that money, but the majority would say that i am, then i don't know this country anymore, and i'll light the match that burns the motherfucker down

736 I wish it were true but if there's this critical mass of the public who wants spending cuts in reality and not just rhetorically at election time, why exactly has government grown unchecked for over 40 years?

At some point (Reagan's two terms, or the '94 Gingrich revolution) this group should have asserted itself.

-

See, that's the thing - I'd argue they did assert themselves when they kicked us out.

Whenever I argue with a moderate Dem about politics and economics, what gets thrown back (with a fair bit of justification) is that the Republicans don't really mean it when it comes to fiscal responsibility, so there's little reason to let those arguments (which the moderates would agree with) trump their social positions when it comes time to vote.

The American people just decided that neither party really means it, so the non-socially conservative Republicans quit caring and the moderate Democrats decided to vote for the big spenders that were more suitable to them.

737
Obama recently promised he would cut spending, reduce the deficit, and be more fiscally responsible WHILE he was signing a trillion $$ insanely wasteful spending bill. And no one batted an eye. It's so bizarre, it's like a dream.

Obama is a gifted salesman. Like I said, he could sell stupid to Nancy Pelosi.

738 DrewM, it seems that you're getting to the nub of it now.  In your eyes, conservatism can't win, so to keep the Marxist monster at bay we need to abandon conservatism in favor of something ill-defined but not completely Marxist.

It's easy to feel this way, what with the uncriticizable president and all.

But then this has nothing to do with Rush or Newt or Frum except that we apparently have to cozy to the latter because he represents something more palatable.

739 Because you have given up, Drew.

Maybe. I think it's more about accepting reality. Yes, we should argue and try and persuade people about the direction of the country but I don't think being realistic about how much we can actually accomplish is necessarily giving up. I think we have to be realistic about our strengths and weaknesses. I think we as a movement do ourselves a disservice if we are unrealistic about our support and what can be done at any moment.

If the great Reagan couldn't shrink the size and reach of government, I'm not sure it can be done. I don't think the country has gotten more conservative since 1980, that's for sure (you all do remember he won CA and NY. Do you see that happening again anytime soon? Is recognizing that a sign I've 'given up'?).

I'm a big believer in the cycles of America. We never go too far one way or the other (though we do go further left than right). Obama and his movement will be defeated but will move the country a little left. Then it will swing back and people will talk about regaining the conservative days of George W. Bush. We'll be old by then and just laugh.

740

But seriously, WTF happened to Ace and AllahPundit, anyway? Is there some beta-male disease going around the Righty blogs I should know about?

Kind of makes you wonder which one will buy the steak on Saturday. 

I've noticed that I've disagreed with Ace more in the last 3 months than in the last 3 years, and I know I'm not the one who's changed.

741 Okay, I'm going to say it. IF anybody needs to view a bus from the reclined position it is GW, for his failure to be conservative.

742 >>> If the great Reagan couldn't shrink the size and reach of government, I'm not sure it can be done.

Not in the absolute sense, but in the relative sense.

I don't care if the government spends 100 trillion dollars a year.  As long as GDP is 100 trillion times one hundred.

Pro-growth, let deficits be eased by the increase in the economy.  Hey, here's a palatable idea to moderates, let's grow past spending concerns.

743 Ace is a success now, no longer young and hungry. He is protecting his territory and booty.

It happens.

744 It's weird that our supposed side continues to accept verbatim what the White House is accusing Rush of. Where the hell is the pushback? Why aren't they calling the media for basically being a White House sounding horn? Wtf?

I'm no Rush fan but even I understood what he meant. If change means socialism then he wants Obama to fail. Is that so difficult for the worthless Republicans to explain to the media everytime it's brought up?

The Republicans are so stupid that they can't see the opportunity in front of their pathetic faces.

Man, we have the two worst political parties in the history of the world. Yes, that includes Bolsheviks and Nazi's.

745 Posted by: counter at March 10, 2009 12:06 AM (SL3qo)

See, I disagree with that.

I don't care if the budget is balanced if that means we are spending more. It's not just the spending that bothers me, more spending means more government activity and that means less freedom.

I want to shrink it in real and absolutely terms. Again...I'm in the minority.

746

Ah geez ace, aren't your widdle toes sore from stamping your feet with Allah and Patterico?  Judging from your "clever" sarcasm, I guess you're about tantrumed out, nearly.

It's just you guys and people who hate "flyover country". Seriously.

It just proves that you guys have never paid attentioin to Rush as much as you have the opinions of the MSM. Otherwise you wouldn't have this strained disbelief. You can only have it if you refuse to read/listen to the sources.

So, Ace, why are you repeating attacks against Rush when they have no basis except for 1. People who never heard/read the original speech/transcript or 2. people who believe that Obama Equals America Just Like A King, or 3. People who think "flyover country" is populated with subhuman filth that they are superior to.

1, 2, or 3 Ace. (I already know Patterico and Allahpundit are fond of #3)

747
Gingrich essentially had to withdraw from politics because of extreme media distortion.  He was too abrasive and unpolished, we were told.

The irony is literally fucking blinding!

THANK YOU!!!

Abso-FUCKING-lutely!!

He is doing to Rush EXACTLY what was done to him.

"Die on the vine" anyone? ANYONE?

Man, this is disappointing. He used to be one of the few, like Rush, that used to cut through the BS to address the issues instead of answering the usual straw man argument while accepting the false premise (pick your issue).

So,

Ace, Allah, why would you defend a man that has said we should let Social Security die on the vine? Why? WHY?

Do you hate my parents?

That's it! You hate old people!

_{Um, that's how it works. Right?}

748 "I wish it were otherwise but if Reagan couldn't do it, I'm not sure who can or will. Not because it's not the right thing (it is) it's simply not able to command a majority of voters in this country."

What will bring people out of their socialist stupor? Not a single politician, pundit or radio personality,  but EVENTS.  When no more money can be borrowed and THE PEOPLE have to pay directly for this nonsense it all comes to an end. Big government all sounds good when someone else pays for it.  Eventually it will be evident that we will ALL have to pay for it and then we will be surprised how quickly people abandon the notion of big government. 

The day of reckoning is coming sooner than we think. Many people are instinctively rebelling against it now, Obama is the reminder we all needed as to how asinine big govt is. Day by day his big supporters are jumping ship, Buffet being the latest.

749 OT but Have you guys voted yet in the MSNBC poll, yet? You get to grade Obama's performance  with A,B,C, D, or F.

So far the F's are at 56%...at friggen MSNBC.

750 In your eyes, conservatism can't win, so to keep the Marxist monster at bay we need to abandon conservatism in favor of something ill-defined but not completely Marxist.

I think conservatism is hard for most people. It means taking responsibility for their own lives. Liberalism sounds easy, "we'll help you, we'll give you this and that". A lot of people fall for it without recognizing what it means until it's too late.

It's like that fable about the frog being boiled alive slowly because he didn't recognize the heat was turning up.

Too many people will take the short term ease and turn their life over to the government. We have the burden of knowing what that will mean in the long term but most people don't want to hear it.

751 But Drew, that's essentially what Reagan did.  Not saying he's perfect, just saying that I'd prefer the government to not represent 15% of the GDP in deficit spending per year.  If you're right and we can't get people off the public, teat, then let's grow, no other option.

It was acceptable under Reagan, it was acceptable under Clinton.

Grow, baby, grow.

752
Ace should change the masthead to:

"Shut up and listen to your betters."

(fifteen months from now we're going to look back at this and laugh)

753 It is possible that I misplaced a few commas in my comments.  Possible.

754

this is amazing, we ahve been arguing about his for what? 2, 3 weeks?

and the steam still hasn't gone out of it, you morons make me proud to be one of you.

vive la revolution!

good night morons

755 Screw Gingrich.  He largely squandered the '94 "Republican Revolution" and made possible both Barry and the current Democrat Congress.  Taking his advice on victory is like asking Obama's on fiscal restraint.

756 Posted by: counter at March 10, 2009 12:15 AM (SL3qo)

To me the measure of success or failure isn't the budget defect but the size of the federal register.

Fewer laws and regulations are the key, lower spending will follow.

It's not just about money, it's about the proper role of government. Right now (and uninterrupted for 40 years) people accept the idea that there's basically no area or issue the federal government shouldn't be involved in.

To me, that's the danger to liberty.

757 Ladies and Gentleman, my parting shot before checking for leaks on the interior of my eyelids. Can we survive if we apologize to the media for every comment we make that is distorted by them to unreasonableness? Can we survive by throwing every conservative commentator and politician under the buss each time they make a comment that is distorted by those who would see us burn? Time to stand strong against the tide or be washed away by it. 

758 NEWT is a great "idea man" for the Conservative movement, but that is it.  His helpfulness ends there.

Having ditched his wife while she was in a coma in the hospital to marry a younger and prettier girl makes this adulterous bastard unfit to run for high elective office.

Good ideas do not a good candidate make.

759 149 "People keep claiming "Of course it's allowed to criticize Limbaugh." No -- from personal experience, I can tell you this is no longer permitted in the GOP."

Maybe, instead of trying to find the best way to criticize Limbaugh, the GOP ought to put their energies into, I don't know, CRITICIZING OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS!

For crying out loud...

Posted by: Kensington at March 09, 2009 08:09 PM (90mpl)



What...you mean attacking our political enemies?  Organizing offensive strategies rather than whinging about not being appreciated?  Locking down our plans and agenda for the future and not (wasting valuable time) eating our own????

What a radical notion! 

760
Screw Gingrich.  He largely squandered the '94 "Republican Revolution" and made possible both Barry and the current Democrat Congress.  Taking his advice on victory is like asking Obama's on fiscal restraint.

I disagree. He did well. The problem here is he is doing to Rush exactly what was done to him to end his political career ("Social  Security...die on the vine") and he g-ddamn well knows it. He did more for the conservative movement than most which is why it is so frustrating that he would now engage in the same B.S.

761 http://www.theospark.net

762 Some polling was done on the role of government recently, most Americans said the answer to our current crisis is *not* going to come from government. Drew, I think you need to do some soul searching bro, why participate on a Conservative blog if you have already conceded defeat?  You, Ace, Allah, Patterico's et al hand wringing is really getting us nowhere.  It is easier to give up I guess but I have kids, I can't project that attitude.  My mom lived through the depression and 2 world wars, I lived through the Carter years which were far worse than this both politicially and economically.  America in her heart is not like Europe.

763 >>> It's not just about money, it's about the proper role of government.

I fully accept that argument.  It's easy, because I agree.

Just trying to go brainstorm with the non center right premise and figure out how to proceed.  If we have to give away some turf, I'd feel better if we could keep growth.

Keeps me from having to grow an Obama garden anyways.

764 Somewhere along the line, "Peoria" became "Manhattan".  How'd that happen?

Qwinn

765
Rush and Newt never graduated from an Ivy League school like Obama and I did.

766 Posted by: Ken at March 10, 2009 12:26 AM (9zzk+)

Polling? Who cares about polling? When push comes to shove the American people vote for bigger government and more spending.

The don't like it in theory but considering that spending never goes down and the reach of the government only expands, they seem to like it well enough in practice.

Anyway, the cough syrup is finally winning so I'm off to sleep.

Good night you glorious morons.

767 Eh, I'll take Limbaugh over Gingrich any day, and I have plenty of problems with Rush from time to time.

Gingrich is just an arrogant douchebag. If his attack on Limbaugh nukes his chances to screw up the presidential election in 2012, I'm thrilled.

768
Newt is going to be our next Bob Dole.

After all, it's his turn.

(I bet Arlen Specter thinks it's his turn, too. He's been in Washington since forever and probably thinks the GOP owes him a moment in the sun.)

769

"I stand corrected on Newt running. Does he know that presidential candidates have to go through a primary? I wonder how pissing off Rush fits into his strategy to make Republicans vote for him."

Worked for McCain

770 May you all know the Peace of Landrew.

Later, Morons.

771 "When push comes to shove the American people vote for bigger government and more spending."

No, they vote for politicians who do that against their wishes.  If they were given the opportunity to vote on the policies DIRECTLY, they would vote no. Do you think the Republicans were voted in the majority because folks thought that they would spend MORE?  No, quite the opposite.  They LOST support over their big spending ways and squandered their majority.

Even Obama knows he must SAY he is against big government because he knows instinctively Americans are against it.  What we have been getting out of Washington is not what the PEOPLE want, it is what the POLITICIANS want to stay in power but they are too fucking dumb to even know how to do that.

I have actually been more encouraged lately than I have in years.  The Rush blowup is proof the libs are scared they are being exposed for what we know they are. They always try to get their agenda through by saying it is something other than what it is but now there is an alternative media led by Rush that is calling them on it. IT IS ALL GOOD, WE JUST NEED TO HANG TOUGH.

When the libs picked a fight with Bush they knew he wouldn't fight back and they savaged him.  Now they are trying to rob the proverbial gun store by demonizing Rush and they will lose because he has the audience and the wherewithal to fight back.  The truth is on our side and Rush, Hannity, Levin, Coulter et al are doing a great job of getting it out there. Yes they will piss some people off but the message gets through.

772 Is Frum right that we need to become moderate?

Well, these days "moderate" seems to mean flaming liberal.  I could be persuaded to accept JFK (or if I held my nose and just swallowed it, Hubert Humphrey) style liberalism...which roughly equates to being a warmongering NeoCon by today's standards.

773 Also, there are many different types of conservatives. I have heard many calls, especially at LGF, for the social cons & religious cons to be dumped because they aren't 'realists' & 'can't' win elections

I'd pay attention to Frum before I'd listen to whatever LGF thinks.

774 The Rush blowup is proof the libs are scared they are being exposed for what we know they are.

Public:  Man, this economy sucks and Obama is only making it worse...Oh, look - something shiny!

775 Okay, out of curiosity - I missed where this all came about. What's all this "Peace of Landrew" stuff?

And are there any penalties for me not knowing it?

776 Ace is treating this topic like the Who treats "Farewell Tours".

777 I think some people do not understand what is going on here.  This isn't about Rush vs Newt or rush vs steele or even rush vs Obama.  this is about which foundation do we use to start to rebuild.  Do we go the Bush moderate route of Steele slicing and dicing demographics.  Do we consent ourselves to be the permenant minority that many of the congressional reps want us to be just go along to get along so they get their plush offices and some prok thrown at them once in awhile like spector, snowe and collins to name a few.  Do we go with the conservative ideas of individual freedom, capitalism, self government, founding documents like rush says or do we want to go the policy wonk/pragmatism route like Newt/frum etc want.   

I think we can go all of the above if done right but some egos would get hurt.  however the overriding idea must be Reagan not Bush. ... if we can combine the ideas of reagan with the policy wonks like Newt we can win and win big.  the drive to pick one way is a drive for leadership. ...

Posted by: unseen at March 09, 2009 08:01 PM (aVGmX)


... Nobody's kicking Newt out of the club. Or Ace. Or anybody else. But just as these Bailouts are freezing failure into place, we're having a long-overdue discussion about conservatism so we won't freeze the failure of the last two elections into place.

Quit trying to shush everybody. We NEED this--it's healthy. We've already disrupted the Honeymoon.

Posted by: Noel at March 09, 2009 08:10 PM (7FgWm)


Two very good posts.  We need this debate to take place between the various entities within the "leadership" of the party and the conservative philosophy.  And I love the bailout analogy too.

This is about the very heart and soul of conservatism and the GOP.  So the question is... do we abandon our principles to make our party more liked by the so-called moderates or do we stand firm on what we know to be true?   Will we the people demand that our party and our leaders return to the values that kept us safe and free?  Limited government?  Strong national defense?  Standing firm against wasteful spending and the expansion of the welfare state?

Or will we cede ground to those who want to reject the core of conservatism and believe Reagan's philosophy is passe...or waste precious time bickering over the next misuse of punctuation...or perhaps a less than grandiosely delivered speech?

Rush isn't the only media figure standing in the gap but he is the most prominent.  Whether or not people who claim to be conservatives have issues with how he says something isn't nearly as relevant as whether or not they agree with what he said.  He wants Obama to fail in his plan to socialize and radically transform our country out from under us.

BTW...I gave Rush's CPAC speech a standing ovation from my living room because he was right across the board.  It was amusing to see the liberal commentator on Fox discuss his style and technique and not his substance because that's what she's programmed to do.  It's not so amusing to see it happen on conservative blogs.

778

If I didn't respond to a direct question or challenge, sorry. I'm not ignoring you, the screen is just getting blurry.

That's OK. You would have lost the argument anyway.

779 Well done, Mary Beth.  Well done.

780 What's all this "Peace of Landrew" stuff?

Reference to a Star Trek episode

781

>>I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT HE SAID OR WHAT HE MEANT.<<

That would appear to be the problem, yes.

Looks as if Michelle wins the coveted Last Conservative Blogger Standing award, then, by default.

782
Ace is treating this topic like the Who treats "Farewell Tours".

Word.

783 776 Okay, out of curiosity - I missed where this all came about. What's all this "Peace of Landrew" stuff?

The "peace of Landru" comes from a classic Star Trek episode called, The Return of the Archons. 

"The planet's inhabitants all seem to be in a perpetual state of vapid, almost mindless contentment, walking about in a happy daze on the streets of a pleasant town. Well, perpetual until the big clock strikes a certain hour - then everyone goes crazy raping & pillaging (I wonder who cleans up these messes afterward?). The people here are no more than wind up toys, following the telepathic command of a hidden ruler named Landru. It's one of those 'group-mind' premises prevalent in sf, especially in the sixties. There are no real individuals left, only a 'body' composed of many cells, each pretty much the same as the next one. This proposes that when free will becomes too intoxicating and mankind nearly destroys itself (i.e. self-induced holocaust), then something may step in to regulate our will to avoid extinction - a cosmic Gandhi turned benign dictator, if you will."  (some user post on IMDB)


And are there any penalties for me not knowing it?

Posted by: AD at March 10, 2009 12:50 AM (kXGei)

Yes.

784
Ace is treating this topic like the Who treats "Farewell Tours".

I see no problem with it.

785 http://tinyurl.com/cm8ez8

That is a confidential AIG report that was done weeks ago. Please, morons, read it. Take it to your investment advisor if it doesn't make sense to you.

786 Worth your time:

http://tinyurl.com/aeg5cp

[That's the one rule, innit?]