1 I had to laugh when Frum posted an email, ONE EMAIL, of a liberal who wrote in to say that he found Levin and Rush turning him off more.  Wow, one email, and that shores up Frum's argument perfectly, no further objections!

Frum seems to forget that Levin and others can point to countless listeners who were converted to conservatism by listening in.  It's sad -- Frum's ego seems to trump the 'debate' he claims to be advancing.

2 Isn't Sarah Palin the Governor of Alaska (not California), or am I missing a meme?

Also, never forget that David Frum is a Canadian-American (like myself).  You can't trust us any farther than you can kick a beaver tail.  As I think Dan Ackroyd once said, we infiltrate so easily because we look and act like you.  Unless you trick us into saying the last letter of the alphabet, we move invisibly among the unsuspecting populace.

3 "This whole controversy is a traffic boost to anyone talking about."

In other words, Frum is a troll.  No shit.

However, you're giving him too much credit.  What conservative proposal does he actually offer now?  None, in fact he suggests unadulterated liberalism.  He's a turncoat:  forget him.

4 Ace,
You are flexing your well toned writing muscles here.  Nicely done.  It almost makes the admonition for Frum to stop cocksucking unnecessary, even out of place.  Perhaps the cocksucking should be reserved for Frank, Reid, and Schumer posts.

Your secret pal, Barry Sotero.

P.S. Get me the fuck out of the whitey house. I'm overwhelmed and I am even expected to work.

5 Frum speaks on the air regularly at NPR. That should be enough to render him emasculated for the rest of naturalized Canadian life. I haven't read him since he left the Weekly Standard, and I haven't listened to him since he joined National Pink Radio. Why aren't you all doing the same? He's irrelevant, just like Brooks, Dreher and the rest of the MSM pet rocks.

6 And don't pretend that reasonable suggestions are going to work with him.  He sold his integrity to board the Obama trainwreck, and vanity will never let him admit his error.

7 Ace is right, it's just Capitalism at work.  Frum saw an opening and took it to advance his own career.  Who he has to fxxk to get there is no concern of his.

8 I also have to say this:  "George Orwell"'s massive rant in the last dhimmipublican thread was great stuff.

9 (that should be:  massive anti-Frum rant)

10   This controversy was pretty much a dead issue until Saturday night.  Some conservative blogger at another site decided to make sure the boil festered again by quoting Frum at length.  Now the rest of the conservative internet is forced to cover for him, ( and try to separate him from Frum) and in doing so to mount weaker and weaker arguments that make them all look more and more brain damaged as they go.  Sad, sad stuff.   

11 Levin was brilliant first in calling out these fuckwits and then really showed Frum to be the douchenozzle that he is.

Frum's right when he says that "Rush has been disastrous for my party" Of course his party now is the dems.

12 If the 'elites' who no one listens to weren't telling the 'commoner' conservatives who do get listened to that it was their way or destruction, the whole thing wouldn't be a controversy.

Frum needs to understand something:  When he (someone that is tepidly interesting at best) calls Rush or Palin (people the base knows and likes) 'bad for the party,' we aren't going to throw over the people whose value we understand for him, who, frankly, ain't done much for us, ever.

13 Frum, schmum.  What did he ever do for us besides coining the phrase "axis of evil"?  Except of course he had it as "axis of concern" until George W. fixed it for him.  I mean, really, "axis of concern"?  Did he reject even lamer phrases, like "bloc of solicitude" and "sphere of hold-on-a-minute"?

14

It's useful to keep in mind that Limbaugh is a conservative, preaches conservatism, is very knowlegable about and succinctly discusses conservatism, but he doesn't get into Republican Party-ism. His discussions are about conservative philosphy not Republican tactic and strategy. Therefore the idea that Limbaugh "...puts his ego ahead of the party..." is misplaced.

 

15 I had a peek at your California...Make sure your zipped!

More than three shakes and your playing with it..

I really don't understand the argument against Rush.  He is a Pompus Ass, it is his schtick.  All well versed listeners know this, and he warns against this by telling people to listen more than once to get it.

But, in the end ... "Rush is Right" (as the ad says)

What is it that the other Repubs do not understand?  If the RNC does not generate leadership, do they think it will just not exist? 

I think they really do not understand the level of gun polishing that is currently going on.  We are not "Republicans" by "choice"  we are republican because we are a republic. People tend to forget this..

Meow

16 "What did he ever do for us"

He did help stop Harriet Miers, allowing us to get Alito.

Of course, in retrospect that was because of his sexist classist status-worshipping douchebaggery, but it came in handy then.

17 someone,

Only Frum could make doing the right thing still feel dirty, and not in a good kind of way.

18 The real problem with the Frums and Brooks crowd is that they give political cover to the enemy. People say that we should stop the infighting and concentrate on beating the libs. Well we would if we weren't being stabbed in the back by people allegedly on our side claiming to speak for us! We need to flush these intellectual traitors out because in effect they are the enemy (ideologically speaking).
They write for the libtards, and they cry "can't we all just get along" when we start kicking their asses.

19 How does any of this Frum commentary fail to apply to Patterico?
Cubed.
Because Patterico is EVERYWHERE blathering voluminously the same crap.

20 >>>If the 'elites' who no one listens to weren't telling the 'commoner' conservatives who do get listened to that it was their way or destruction, the whole thing wouldn't be a controversy.

I don't mind that -- after a loss, especially, everyone offers their "Plan to Fix the Party," which just coincidentally happens to dovetail perfectly with their own personal political preferences. Funny how that works out, huh?

I don't do that myself much -- I'm not pro-life but I will defend pro-life politically as either a no-net-votes-lost proposition or, more likely, as a net-vote-winner. I'm trying to evaluate what's REALLY best for the party, not just trying to build my own Sullivanesque fever-dream Party of One.

But I don't mind that -- this is what is done after losses. Let's talk about policy, sure. Let's talk about whether Reagan's winning formula is still a winning formula in 2010.

Frum and his cohort don't seem to realize that even though we just nominated the most socially-moderate candidate in several cycles, we lost badly. I don't think we lost because McCain was a moderate -- though it's likely he did lose votes because of tat -- but given we basically just took Frum's (and Brooks', and etc.'s) advice and did what they've long demanded we do, I really think they should stop with the arrogant starting assumpiton that *Of course we're right.*

Of course? We just followed many of your prescriptions and got our asses kicked. Now, it's likely we were doomed anyway, but before you convince us to become even more moderate/liberal, you really have to convince us first why a moderate-ish candidate got his clocked cleaned, and why you think an even less conservative candidate would perform better.

I don't want to write people like Frum out of the movement altogether -- he does seem to be a conservative, or at least a Republican, and we're not in a position where we can safely conduct purges.

But I do want the nasty sniping to end. I don't see how Frum can possibly think he can persuade us when he's busy punching us in the kidneys, all the while telling us "You'll thank me for this later."

Rush is impolitic? God All Mighty. What about these jokers? Tact and savvy seem to be in short supply lately.

21 I think Frum is angling to be the next St. Andrew of the Perpetually Aggrieved.  He should be entertaining for us as he nails himself to the cross.

22

I guess Rush sells mags better than Obama now.  Look at any newsstand and The Won is staring back at you, a lot of times from special editions.

Well, Big Brother needs his Emmanuel Goldstein.

23 Mark Levin vs. David Frum

It's a shame they both can't lose.

24 >>>Because Patterico is EVERYWHERE blathering voluminously the same crap.

I don't really agree it's the same. "I hope he fails" is not a politic thing to say when people are losing their jobs and scared shitless whether they'll be able to provide for their families.

There were better ways to put it. Less punchy, sure. But anyone whose telling themselves "I hope he fails" is some kind of winning slogan is deluding themselves, confusing what he personally wants to hear with what the public needs to hear if we're going to start winning again.

It's not the end of the world, certainly. but it's not a helpful thing to say.

25 Frum raps Limbaugh for putting his ego ahead of the party -- which I will now risk the wrath of my readers by noting my own sympathy to that critique.

Oh.  OH!  You did not just write that.

26

there is an army building out here in the heartland, i see it every day, ppl are saying things i never thought i'd hear, they have no confidence at all in our government, i've heard more "fuck the government" rants by just ordinary ppl on the street and they aren't saying it the way you could always occasionally hear it, they are saying it with true anger in their voices, add to that the incredible amount of guns, ammo, and dry goods that are being sold, ppl are getting ready for something, so far, they don't have a plan, so far, nothing has sparked them into action, so far, they don't have a leader.

so far 

27 Well, it's like picking scabs, I guess, so I'm at it again.  I ranted about this yesterday.

28 Oops, someone already linked it.  I'm out of here and off to get some sensitivity training.  Because of Teh Tone!

29 Frum's descended from a very liberal member of the Canadian public broadcasting establishment; as he ages, he's just  revealing his inner self.

30 Frum's been a self righteous asshole ever since he was booted from the White House.  Apparently it bruised his poor little ego.  Same thing happened to Peggy Noonan.  She used to be a very elegant writer, now she's catty, vindictive, and thinks far too much of herself.

31 Acey, your points are well made, BUT you are occupying a very narrow ledge here.  You also criticized Limbaugh over the dreaded "tone" of his remarks.  It seems the main differences between you and Frum are that you don't need the traffic, and instead of joining the self-appointed elite of self-important assholes, you and Allah have formed a coalition of self-appointed tut-tutters to lecture both sides - but on substance you both have thrown in with the elites, so you are hardly impartial umpires.

On "tone," any criticism of Rush is merely fodder for the Left.  The man's been on the air for over 20 years.  His style is aggressive and mocking and no holds barred within the broadest bounds of taste and FCC regulations.  Always has been.  But NOW suddenly some on the right are "concerned" about his "tone"?

If you want Rush to be politically correct, you have a better chance of Obama actually keeping a campaign promise.  Give it up.  The Left is going to demonize him, Palin, Jindal, Sanford, Steele, or WHOEVER is speaking for our side at any given time.  That's been their strategy since Reagan (which makes all their false admiration for him now all the more galling) and it never changed for a minute.  Only Clinton opted out in order to appear moderate to win reelection.  As soon as he won, his hit men like Carville, Begala, et al were back out with the long knives for any critic.  Business as usual.

We concede nothing.  If young people don't like Rush, it isn't because they listened to him and rejected his ideas.  It's because they read him demonized in the media and by the left, and then even by supposedly conservatives like Ace and Allah (however milder the "tone" of your critiques).

Conservatives are through trying to make nice with the damned socialists.  If we're too rough-edged for you, throw in with the Libertarians and their wacko 0.5% of the population.  They are completely nuts, but they have such good "tone" ya know . . .

32 There was never any "intellectual segment of the debate" about Rush, or of any of the sub-"debate" that's followed.

There was always only a "personalized" "argument" that those who refuse to take up Emmanuel's cudgel are "gratuitously provocative" and "deluding themselves" and not "sensible adults," and they need to fall in line and "start winning."

Like McCain did.

33 Well, Big Brother needs his Emmanuel Goldstein.

Thanks.  I've been thinking of that comparison for a while.

And HERE's a place to hit Obama:

"Overall, 75% of voters are concerned that the new budget will lead to too much government spending. That includes 49% who are Very Concerned."

The old 'tax-and-spend' label is still viable.

34 I can't get over why people sudden think Frum matters a whit to anyone. He is completely inconsequential in my estimation, and wringing our hands over what he thinks about Limbaugh or Palin is a waste of time.

35 It is the height of irony that Frum "knows" what the Republicans need to do when he is the very reason there is a problem -- flush this turd along with Steele down the toilet, now!

36 -- he engages in precisely the same style of "debate" through invective.

Physician, heal myself.

Freudian slip?

37 Very nice, as usual Ace.

38 "However, you're giving him too much credit. What conservative proposal does he actually offer now? None, in fact he suggests unadulterated liberalism. He's a turncoat: forget him."

I have thoughts that people like Frum have infiltrated the Rep party for no other purpose than to inch it left..and make divisive all conservative principles. Just like the liberals infiltrated the school system & many other areas of culture to change direction, I believe there is a very concerted effort to mask oneself as a Rep, simply to mold the party as the Libs see fit.

39 Rush said what he said.  He explained it.  Obama's White House hit team went after him in an orchestratedly mendoucheous gambit.  It's in our best interests to make them pay.  And pay.  And pay.  For being the lying, dirty cocksuckers that they are.

Anything about Limbaugh representing conservatism or the Republican Party is quite apart from the issue of stopping these fuckers.

40

More elitist cocktail party beltway conservatism taking a dump all over the base on display here.

Maybe I'm outtaline here, but when I imagine so called conservatives like the blue-blooded Frum, I picture them holding a wineglass in one hand and  a pulsating cock in the other.

But that's just me.

41 Shoey,

We'll see how the long hot summer plays out.  By nature the folks you talk about aren't agressors, they're defenders,   So long as no one bothers them or tries to take what is theirs, all will be fine. 

A few high profile errors in judgment could create some problems, particularly considering how quickly information travels via internet - those little movie things, photos, and reports from eyewitnesses. 

Let's hope the misguided don't become carried away with their bright ideas. 

42 Maybe I'm outtaline here, but when I imagine so called conservatives like the blue-blooded Frum, I picture them holding a wineglass pulsating cock in one hand and a pulsating cock in the other.

FIFY.

43

"I hope he fails" is not a politic thing to say when people are losing their jobs ...

Bull. Near retirement, self employed and my nest egg is well down six figures. "I hope he fails"  sounds good to me. There is nothing in Obama's bag of trix that he and the dimorats would consider successful that's gonna help a lot of folk's situations like mine. Obama's idea of success is a social justice economy where those that was robbed get some back and us robbers get what's comin.

44

I think some of the self-style "elites" might have some worthwhile ideas to contribute...

And those would be?  That's a serious question...I really want to know what you believe their worthwhile ideas to be.

 

45 >>I don't mind that -- after a loss, especially, everyone offers their "Plan to Fix the Party," which just coincidentally happens to dovetail perfectly with their own personal political preferences. Funny how that works out, huh?

I think what many are missing is that what is happening now is galvanizing our next position. Obama is advancing a very far left agenda at lightening speed. What he is doing will, not might, will make matters far worse than they should be and that will become obvious as things play out. What he is doing is not just economically unsound, it is downright dangerous and his social policies are anathema to conservatives and even many in the middle. Slowly but surely, the country will turn on Obama until only his core cult remains.

Our strategy for fixing the party will be pretty simple and it will organize around the core principle of opposing everything Obama and the left are trying to foist on us. This was the organizing principle for left during the Bush years and Obama became the leader of the movement because he was the one who best represented it. They had plenty of angry clowns, Dean, Moore, Franken who said things far more incendiary than Rush and it didn't hurt them a bit. In fact, they brought a lot of people to the table, people who didn't like Iraq, didn't like Bush's social or domestic agenda, and the moderates got marginalized.

We are in a period of hyper-partisanship. We will organize around defeating the leftist agenda not cooperating with it and people like Rush will thrive. Frum, not so much.

46

Maybe I'm outtaline here, but when I imagine so called conservatives like the blue-blooded Frum, I picture them holding a wineglass pulsating cock in one hand and a pulsating cock in the other.

FIFY

 

Thank's George. Inside the beltway that's called skiing. Wouldn't surprise me if Frum had Andy Sully on speed-dial.

47 Well for one thing, Tami, they are pointing out that they we do not seem to be a center-right country anymore.

That may or may not be true -- but we have to examine if it is true, and to what degree if it is, and not merely just discard the thought because we don't like it.

48

"Why can't we just discuss these things in a calm, measured way?"

Because you're a liberal cocksucking turncoat, Dave. Yhat's why.

49 The lib media and the White House wouldn't be able to make the ridiculous charge that Rush is the head of the Republican party if the party had any real political leadership.  Someone needs to fill the vacuum.  Jindal and Palin are promising figures, but they're political novices.  Where is the seasoned professional willing to step up and take the reins, like Gingrich did in 1994?  

On the four points Frum tried to make at the end of his showdown with Levin, they're well, liberalism.  We have principles, or we don't.  We lead, or we don't.  If we're not going to do that, close the damned party down, because there's no point.

50 Ace says: "Frum raps Limbaugh for putting his ego ahead of the party -- which I will now risk the wrath of my readers by noting my own sympathy to that critique. "

Thank you Ace: you are correct that Limbaugh did put his ego ahead of the party, and he should NOT have done that.

Rush is in danger of making himself the Father Coughlin of our times: a radio personality whose fervent listenership is in large numbers -- when compared to other radio personalities. But a wise party leader -- if that is what he aspires to be -- takes care not to undermine the authority of the person who just won the election to lead the party -- Steele, winner of the RNC post. It not only makes the RNC chief look bad, it makes all the party leaders who voted for him look bad. The winner? The great voice Limbaugh. The loser? The party.

51

#41

i hope that i'm reading it all wrong, please God let me be wrong

52

To all you conservatives like Johnny McComity who want to suck up to the media - how did it work out for him?  He never figured out until it was too late what most of us knuckle-draggers knew all along... he was their buddy only because he was willing to bashed Bush, and so they could have him on their shows as "balance" but not have to actually hear the other side of any real issues.  Ultimately, they worked to get him nominated as someone they had learned to control, and then used him as a stalking horse to elect their own candidate - Obama.

Here are some simple principles I wish conservative "celebrities" could manage to remember when dealing with the media:

1. The media is not your friend, but may sometimes find it convenient to pretend to be in order to take advantage of you.  Never forget that the media is whole-heartedly committed to the failure of everything you are for!

2. Your job is not to win over the media, but to get past their filters and noise-jamming, and communicate to the American people in spite of them.  Ronald Reagan could not win the media over, and you are not cleverer or more charming than Ronald Reagan!

3. Be plain-spoken, and do not aplogize for your beliefs.  If you try to use equivocation, nuance, candor, or even off-the-cuff wry humor to try to make your point more palatable to the media, your words will be twisted and turned against you, your allies, your party, and your ideals.  They will do it every time - they will make no exception for you!

53 Frum's a prick.  I know contractions are bad form for formal communications, but it just seemed to have more punch than "Frum is a prick."

54 >>>You also criticized Limbaugh over the dreaded "tone" of his remarks.

I did and I do. And I submit that while this may "sound good" to many of you it does not "sound good" to most of the country.

You are committed partisans. Most voters are not. You are elevating the catharsis you get from this line over real politics.

I'm in this to win, not for catharsis. Oh, sure, I like catharsis. People come for my rants, so I know catharsis is good. Certainly it's good for me.

But choosing between catharsis and good politics is an easy call for me. It can't be catharsis over everything, unless you just want to rant as minority forever.

>>>It seems the main differences between you and Frum are that you don't need the traffic, and instead of joining the self-appointed elite of self-important assholes, you and Allah have formed a coalition of self-appointed tut-tutters to lecture both sides - but on substance you both have thrown in with the elites, so you are hardly impartial umpires.

Shrug. Yes, I go to cocktails with them all the time.

Or, maybe, I (and Allah, and Patterico) are trying to tell you something you don't want to hear.

Pauline Kael famously remarked she didn't understand how Nixon had won, because "no one I know voted for him."

With all due respect, some of you seem to be under the misapprehension that 'I hope he fails" is universally popular. It's not. For those who are voting purely out of economic anxiety, it's toxic. They don't want to hear anyone "hoping" the president fails, and therefore the economy fails, etc.

Even when polls showing Limbaugh's unpopularity are presented, they are denied. This tendency of conservatives to engage in denialism of any fact they don't like is troubling and seriously counterproductive.

Obama did not pick Rush as his enemy because Rush is *popular,* guys. Yes, he's popular -- with some. And unopopular with most.

But when it's merely suggested that, for this reason, we should not be happy about having Rush Limbaugh as the face and voice of the party, I get shouted down. He's great! Hey, I like him; doesn't everyone?

No, they don't. And his line is a bad one. It creates more enemies than it does friends -- that's why it's impolitic.

>>>On "tone," any criticism of Rush is merely fodder for the Left.

Oh, bullshit. So now we cannot have any criticism of Rush -- or any other major Republican hero -- at all? Because it's "fodder for the left"?

Eh, if all you want is rah-rah Rush is great, whatever. What can I do. Apparently the man is infallible. I did not know that.

55 Frum raps Limbaugh for putting his ego ahead of the party -- which I will now risk the wrath of my readers by noting my own sympathy to that critique.

You risk the wrath because in sympathizing with Frum's critique, you accept the terms of the debate set by the left wing.  And until you stop accepting those terms of debate, you will deserve all the wrath you get, because you legitimize the left wing's terms while undercutting the ability of the right wing to fight back.  I'm hardly the first to put forward these thoughts in you comment, just one of many, and yet you still can't seem to get it, just as you accuse Frum of being unable to get it.

And as for the premise itself, how much did saying controversial things hurt the left in the last two election cycles, who have had various spokesman (including Howard Dean) say one over-the-top outrageous thing after another?  It didn't hurt them electorally at all, and here's why - nobody on the left (even some of their more moderate "voices of reason") ever accepted that their cohorts were out of bounds. 

When you so willingly concede to the left that what Rush said was out of bounds, you've surrendered without a fight.

May the wrath continue.

56 Ok, let's suppose we are no longer a center-right country.  What platforms or policies do the Republican party 'elites' think we should adopt to include the new descriptive...which I guess would be we're a 'center' country? 

57 I haven't even been following the whole "Rush debate" much and really don't care.
We shouldn't be trying to shut anybody up, let 'em fall or stand on their own words.

But I can say confidently now:

Fuck Frum. The guy is an asshole and an idiot. I don't even particularly like Rush and I still say Fuck Frum. I would sooner read Huffpo at this point then anything Frum writes. He probably wore lipstick for his photo anyway.

58 The problem Rush's comment was that most people don't know what Obama is trying to succeed at.  They think it is economic recovery - Rush knows damn well it is something else entirely.  Rush was clever to be provocative enough to get his words into the MSM, and then have people tlak about them, and a few of them actually learn what he meant!!

59 And this is what I was trying to say during the Steele-Limbaugh dust-up: The statement is hard to defend, and Steele was trying to duck it, because it's NOT a helpful statement.

So that's why I suggested: Give Steele a break. He was in a difficult spot.

But then the denialism comes in, claiming it wasn't a bad remark, but a great one, and that Steele should have defended it, and because he didn't he has to go, etc.

Had it just been accepted by Limbaugh and his supporters that the mere tone (just tone) was not helpful, and the argument been papered over, we could have avoided much of this.

Now Steele is badly damaged.

Yes, badly damaged by his own impolitic remarks, but whatever, did we have to press this to this point?

60 thebronze--

But I -- and you -- have argued and taken the position that such statements WERE out of bounds, and now you want to simply reverse yourself and say "Well if my guy is doing it, it's okay"?

61

I think Frum has something to add to the debate

I think so too. I just think it's the Democratic Party debate. Frum does not belong within a light year of the GOP or conservative movement.

62 Rush is in danger of making himself the Father Coughlin of our times:

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on AoSHQ.
When the hell has Rush been Antisemitic or Racist in any way?
Father Coughlin would feel a lot more comfortable with the radical left than he ever would with Rush.

63 Ace,

I was going to write a witty comment on how the "city folk" just are not gettin' it.

But, they really don't.  WE DON"T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT OBAMA FAILING!

Why would anyone "Republican" worry about what an Obama supporter is mad about.  WE DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE WE ARE PATRIOTIC.  We just are.  We understand what Rush means and those who don't...well fuck 'em.  They either are not Republican or worried about being found out thet they are by their cocktail circuit buddies. In both cases, pretty soon, if things do not change, you will have to choose sides.

We understand what it really means when we say "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"  and it is not being pissy about a little pepper spray.  It is about dying for your kid's freedom because you have decided that your life is worth it.

That's the big boy pants.  Some may have to decide that they will wear them or not..

These are not "here is my rational argument and make a descsion" times. The left in this country is not rational.  Have you tried a rational talk with a Obama supporter and made a difference?  Any Democrat?   They have no rational argument for the current action in the government. NONE.

We need to quit trying to form one for them.

meow

64

I'm in this to win, not for catharsis.

Disagree strongly on how to win. No failure ... no win. If you want to win, you want failure. Got it?

How do you win post failure?

Pre-failure you were the loudest mofo screaming "Failure is nigh !"

But weren't you saying you wanted failure ???

Also said failure was unavoidable, just admitted a preference for sooner the better.

65

If David Frum had his way, the Republican party would consist entirely of clones of Spector, Collins, and Snowe, enlightened progressives willing to reach out across the aisle just often enough to doom the party.

Socialism is the enemy here people, not creationists or talk radio listeners. people like Frum better start aiming their fire at the enemy. (perhaps he feels he is)

66 So that's why I suggested: Give Steele a break. He was in a difficult spot.

What I object to were the terms "inflammatory" and "ugly".  That, and letting the Nazi reference go by unrefuted.  Even Ed Gillespie wouldn't have let that slide.
Steele should have been all over that.

Chrissy Matthews noted that in the wake of this controversy, Rush's audience has swelled to 25 million (no leg-tingle for Chrissy there, I bet).  Steele knows that granted, these 25 million listeners aren't enough to win elections, but they're the base, and they deserve more respect.

You can bet the DNC chair wouldn't speak that way about Olbermann.

67 ...they are pointing out that they we do not seem to be a center-right country anymore.

>That may or may not be true -- but we have to examine if it is true, and to what degree if it is, and not merely just discard the thought because we don't like it.

This is true.  We may very well no longer be "center-right."  But the Frum prescription seems to be "go left" rather than "sell them a vision of liberty."

Obama did not pick Rush as his enemy because Rush is *popular,* guys. Yes, he's popular -- with some. And unpopular with most.

Nonsense.  He's widely known.  Obastard would not pick on a middle-tier policy wonk from Heritage.  Think Alinsky.

At any rate, Rush is unpopular with most?  So is conservatism and liberty, according to the last two elections.  Pack it in guys, and go back to lesbian pr0n and haiku contests, 'cause we ain't in the cool crowd any longer.

One hell of a strategy, that is.  I know, let's go all polysyllabic and join the tips of our fingers together.  Let's discuss the possible permutations of Our Elegant President's careful plans with respect and a scholarly tone.  We'll ponder the free market merits of a heavy carbon tax against the command economy flaws of a heavy carbon tax.

Folks like Brooks and Frum won't kill the argument for liberty with bullets, stones or infernal engines.  They kill it by boring us to death.

68 I really can't believe I am reading some of this stuff.

We just lived through 8 years of non-stop Bush and Republican hating with some of the most vitriolic, nasty, foul language possible. We had the head of the DNC saying he hates Republicans and everything they stand for. And we are worried about a radio host saying he hopes Obama fails to achieve his objectives?

What?

The statement is not hard to defend. Watch.

What Rush actually said is that he has been watching Obama for the last year and a half and listened to what he wanted to do and Rush thinks those policies would spell disaster for the country and so he doesn't want them enacted. He wants him to fail at enacting them. And you know (insert name of commentator here) most Republicans don't want them enacted either. If you noticed, a total of 3 Republicans in all of Congress supported Obama's stimulus plan. Not because they want the President to fail but because they want the country to succeed and they think his plan will not help.

Steele had a great opportunity to educate and explain our position. He failed and he did it all on his own.

69

a wise party leader -- if that is what he aspires to be -- takes care not to undermine the authority of the person who just won the election to lead the party -- Steele, winner of the RNC post.

 

There is so much wrong with that. First off, the head of the RNC is NOT the "leader of the party". I doubt that one person in ten here can name the previous RNC head, or that one in a hundred knows the RNC head before that. The RNC head is supposed to be a back-room paper-shuffler.

Second, Rush did not set out to "undermine the authority" of Steele. Steele said a bunch of idiotic (read "lefty") things and Rush called him on them. It seems to me that the GOP could do with a whole lot more of this if we hope to arrest it's transformation into Americas alternative socialist party.   

70 Rush is in danger of making himself the Father Coughlin of our times:

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on AoSHQ.
When the hell has Rush been Antisemitic or Racist in any way?
Father Coughlin would feel a lot more comfortable with the radical left than he ever would with Rush.

Amen. I was thinking the same thing.

71 I don't think Steele needs to apologize  as I think those are liberal tactics. They shame people to distract from things.
Stand by what you said if you believe it but if he does then he should resign.
If you can't stand up for a party even when you think it wrong then you shouldn't be it's national chairman. He's not the leader of the party, he's the parties chief cheerleader. He should never be agreeing with the Dems, it's the elected pols job to find middle ground where it's needed.

72 I think it's a really bad idea to let them go after Limbaugh because something he said was "inartfully" phrased.  You embolden them to try more of this shit if you do.  As between Limbaugh and the lies of Obama's Chicago hit men, who really deserves our criticism?

73 The statement is hard to defend...

No.  I want Obastard to fail.  I didn't vote for him, I don't like his plans, if he succeeds he will destroy more liberty and prosperity than any other President in the last 100 years.  I did not say I want the nation or its citizens to fail.  I want this bad man Obastard to fail.  Period.

Any attempt to pretend I said anything otherwise is what a certain book calls "bearing false witness."  Things have become surreal when I quote the Bible.  And I'm an agnostic, too.

74 Look, I don't get this at all. You guys have a personal investment in Rush Limbaugh I do not.

I view the statement dispassionately: Does it help or hurt? It hurts. It's not calamitous or anything, but to the extent it has an impact, it's hurtful.

I simply cannot sit here and debate with you why a country teetering on the edge of a depression might find "I hope he fails" to be a rooting for economic misery, which is not appreciated.

If you don't get this, I can't explain it any better. It might be great catharsis to hear for a partisan, but not for a nonpartisan voter who's a bit of dumbass and has no idea about politics at all... he just doesn't want to lose his job or his home or be forced to move to a bad neighborhood and start sending his kids to a shitty public school because he can't afford parochial school anymore.

And yet you guys are committed to defend the statement -- not Limbaugh himself; just four words he uttered -- to the death, as if theyre the words of the Constitution itself.

75 Frankly, I can't get too excited about Frum vs. Limbaugh. 

Rush is what he is - he's been saying controversial things for 20 years.  He's gotten in trouble with the media and the Democrats time after time.  He is not a leader, he's a larger than life, entertaining personality like Mencken or that chain smoking Italian journalist who died last year (forgot her name).  He says provocative, politically incorrect things.  And he's not going to change just because we elected a black president or the second great depression may be on the horizon.  Get over it.

And Frum.  I am probably one of the few people who used to read Frum's column at NR.  One time he went up against a liberal author on blogging heads, where they are supposed to have civil debates and be respectful to one another.  The next day this liberal was posting all kinds of really nasty stuff about Frum, making fun of him with his leftist buddies, etc.  Frum didn't even bother to defend himself (almost as though he enjoyed being kicked around).  And listen to how he was verbally beat down and kicked around by Levin.  Frum is nothing but a cowardly, pathetic cringe-inducing little worm, why would anyone even bother discussing him?  (Why the hell am I discussing him??)  Enough, already.  I'm too busy worrying about whether there's anyone who can emerge as a leader and get us out of this economic downward spiral that looks like it has no bottom.  Mitt Romney, anyone?



 

76 I think there are some, like Ace apparently, who feel that winning trumps everything. By that logic we're not supposed to put anyone controversial in politics. Good luck with that.
Look we tried nominating the "palatable" candidate. It didn't work.
We do need to fight. We do need to enunciate our principles.
The libs don't have moderates. Everyone is on the same page, or they're not libs.
Rush is not the problem. Lack of guts in the Republican leadership is the problem.

77

Steele damaged himself, which was inevitable because he's not really a conservative.

if Steele were a covert operator for the DNC he could not have done a better job at totally screwing the pooch. (i'm not saying he is)

we keep telling them we want Conservatives and they send us crappy fucking RINO's

i'll stop bitching when they start putting some true conservatives in power positions.

i guess this won't be settled until the 2010 primaries, when the Rush ppl and the christians cut through the moderates like a hot knife thur butter  

78 Orwell,

Fine. Your sentiments are shared by about 10 or 15% of the country.

Good luck winning elections.

This is the denialism that drives me to absolute frenzy. I can point to polls showing you're in a minority, and you just won't believe them.

Do you want to win fucking elections or do you want to rant?

Jesus!

79 76 was supposed to be in the Steele thread.
Fuck it. Its all the same argument anyway.

80 No, Ace, I'm not a Limbaugh fan, and his words don't shape my understanding of the Constitution.  Still, a person ought to be able to state what he believes without having his words cynically twisted by a bunch of White House assholes and their media enablers.

81 I want to win elections by attracting the smart voters on principle, not by pandering to the dumb ones who cannot work out why "I want Obama to fail" doesn't mean "I want America to fail."

82 Iblis:

Explain this to me:

When

The FUck

Did "I hope he fails"

become

fucking

core

conservative

philosophy

which I am required

to defend to the death

to prove I'm a good conservative?


IT FUCKING HAPPENED THREE WEEKS AGO AND YOU GUYS ARE ACTING AS IF THIS IS SOME FUCKING CHERISHED PART OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE THAT ANY TRUE PATRIOT WILL SPILL LIFE'S BLOOD TO DEFEND.

When did this happen? You tell me when we all collectively agreed on making "I hope he fails" something close to "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"?

You guys are behaving as if this is something Reagan said. Or Tedddy Roosevelt.

I reapeat: It was said JANUARY 16th OF THIS VERY YEAR.

For something that's only existed for two months, this sure has made it into core conservative philsophy rather rapidly.

83 We do need to fight.

We can fight dumb or fight smart.

"Fight" does not mean "fight dumb."

84 Frum's  "David  Brock" moment approaching in 3,2,1.......

85 It's not a core conservative philosophy.  It's a matter of common decency, though, to hold the White House and the media to account when they lie about what a person has said, paint him as the leader of the party, etc., when it's completely untrue.  Whether that person is Limbaugh or any other person these jackals go after.

86

I bet when Frum sucks cock he drags his teeth.

87 I don't understand what's so hard about that.

88 What us "bad conservatives" are trying to tell you is not to not fight, but fight smarter, and for that simple advice -- tactical advice only -- we're sell-outs.

This is getting too cultish for me.

I do not believe any goddamn man on the face of the earth is above criticism.

Is Rush the exception? Apparently for some. Not for me.

89 >>And yet you guys are committed to defend the statement -- not Limbaugh himself; just four words he uttered -- to the death, as if theyre the words of the Constitution itself.

Not true. I think I may have listened to Limbaugh maybe a dozen times in my life. He is not my hero. But he is a symbol of what the left and their enablers in the MSM do to us all the time and we always put our tails between our legs and back down. Well I for one am sick of it and I think millions of others are too.

Do you remember the Trent Lott crap. How about macaca? Do you honestly think that either of those two was making a racist comment? Lott lost his leadership position and ultimately quit over that. Allen lost his seat almost assuredly over that crap. Yet Byrd can talk about white n*ggers and he is hailed as the dean of the Senate. When do we ever make a stand?

You watch, as soon as this one dies down they will pick another target, find another "inartful" statement and we will back down again. Totally predictable.

90 I mean, Jesus, man . . .  who's got the nuance,  now?

91

I do not believe any goddamn man on the face of the earth is above criticism.

Good...then you don't might us criticising some of your posts, right?

 

92 "This is getting too cultish for me."

Yeah?  Well the "walk on eggshells" crowd is getting a bit hairshirtish for me.

Getting really sick of the "cult" smear, too.

93

Ace,

Great post. Definitely 'flowers' worthy.

94 BTW, you shouldn't go to a place with your readers where you're accusing them of being biased because they have a dog in this fight and you do, because that argument can be turned around on you, and then this whole thing will devolve into another Patterico-Goldstein death match.

95 I view the statement dispassionately: Does it help or hurt? It hurts. It's not calamitous or anything, but to the extent it has an impact, it's hurtful.

No, it helps.  It helps clarify thinking and strategy, if you are of a mind to think.  Such a statement will either:

1. Reinforce a previously existing prejudice against conservatives
2. Remind you that some conservatives still want to fight this administration
3. Make you stop and wonder what this is all about.  You may even rethink some matters.

Okay everyone, Ace wants to know if we want to win elections.  Well, I'm waiting.  What's the mystery strategy?  How do we win?  This is the crap Frum peddles.  Go back and listen again to the Levin/Frum clip.  I repeat myself... Frum spends the entire time restating the obvious.  Reiterating that the GOP are losers.  Okay, so how do we become winners?  I'm waiting.

Davy F. waited until the last second to throw out his magic powder fairy dust.  Four points pushing liberal policy.  Is that how we win?  Who is this "we?"  It doesn't include anyone who wants limited government or more liberty.  But if I like Frum's policy prescriptions, why wouldn't I just vote Democrat?  I'm waiting.

(toe tapping)

By the way, I thought ranting was what we did here.  But when Frum does it, it's "reasoned debate."  A subtle mind, he has.

96 don't, rather

97 Prop 8 was a great wedge issue for us.  But we should let it go because it's not sufficiently moderate.  The American people are widely theistic and distrust atheists.  But we should let that go because it's not sufficiently moderate.  There are many more issues like this of course.  (And I happen to be in the minority on both.)

We'd trust those counseling a poll-oriented approach if they didn't immediately drop the poll-oriented approach almost every time it goes against their own personal beliefs.

If we want to go down the poll-oriented wedge issue path, great.  But it's used as an argument sometimes and ignored other times.

98 Ace,

Fuck the polls along with Frum. Frum sentiments may be shared by more of the country that votes Democratic, but not by more than those that vote Republican or Conservative. Just what the hell party are we talkng about here?
Republicans didn't lose over the last 2 years for being too Republican or too Conservative. It's just a ridiculous statement. As ridiculous as Frum's rant about Katrina. The other party won after 8 years and everyone acts like something radical has happened. It didn't. It has happened over and over again. The radical thing would be bucking it like Bush 41.

99 we don't abandon our allies, that's why this is so important to us

100

Come on, Ace. Do you really think if a voter who "just doesn't want to lose his job or his home or be forced to move to a bad neighborhood and start sending his kids to a shitty public school because he can't afford parochial school anymore" suffers economically in the next 4 years, he's going to blame Limbaugh? I think Obama failing and us winning elections will, unfortunately for those who suffer in the short term, go hand in hand.

If this socialism wildly succeeds (I don't see how that's possible, but work with me on this), Democrats will solidify control. Not because of Limbaugh's "tone" but because of the voters' economic condition. And likewise, when this socialism fails, no one who's going to vote is going to be thinking about Limbaugh.

101
You have a most remarkable case of "Tourette's Punditry Syndrome".

It's a great read and the occasional "co*ksu*king, d*ckw*d, a$$wipe, retarded offspring of fraternal twins"adds just the right note of cognitive dissonance to whisper softly " careful you MAY be reading the scribblings of an idiot savant"

AoSHQ - it won't stunt your growth but it could damage your chromosomes.

102 Solace and balm is duly offered for those who fearing Konservative Kultism:

Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot.

Feel better now?  Repeat as necessary.

103

47 Well for one thing, Tami, they are pointing out that they we do not seem to be a center-right country anymore.

That may or may not be true -- but we have to examine if it is true, and to what degree if it is, and not merely just discard the thought because we don't like it.

Fair enough, and it should take about 5 seconds to figure out it is not true and not simply because the right doesn't like it.

How quickly it seems people forget that the Obama who won the election was the guy who pro-lifers could love, who would enact a net spending cut, wouldn't propose any new spending without an equal spending cut, hated deficits, was for tax cuts and against tax hikes, supported nuclear power and more energy production while running away from any green comments, opposed gun control, was tougher than McCain on Afghanistan/Pakistan, wanted to rebuild and strengthen the military, etc.  Also, take out increased black voting and the idiot youth swooning and McCain narrowly lost. 

That's not to mention the general anti-Bush/anti-Republican mood the media managed to whip up in the center.  I suppose you could argue that means they aren't "center-right" but I would argue they simply believed Obama was centerish and had the benefits of history, coolness, and not being a Republican in 2008.

As for Congress, again the Democrats ran as fiscal conservatives who would get rid of the deficit and bring back ethics to a Washington corrupted by Republicans.  Most of the Democrats gains in the House at least were from conservative blue dog Democrats.

It should make it easier to understand if people would understand that "right" does not perfectly mesh with "republican" nor "left" with "democrat".  Heck that would help with Rush as well, since Rush is a speaker for the "right" not the "republicans". 

104

> we tried nominating the "palatable" candidate. It didn't work

True, and the another factor is morale. At this point there is very little hope of stopping the bad policies other than possibly instilling fear in the administration. Even if the policies are a major clusterfrak the MSM will try to spin them as "working". Rush just kicked butt. He was the only national figure to say "These policies are bad and I hope they fail" and get the attention necessary to engage the argument. Mission accomplished. Argument engaged. Pick your side and let 'er rip,

 

105 Kensington

Well, we have some really big fights here ahead of us and all people seem to have the passion for arguing about is whether "I hope he fails" is now core conservative doctrine.

It's not.

We have more important fights.

I don't want to criticize rush for it. To the extent I'm forced to -- I say it's a remark which hurts us, which is why, get this, the media won't stop talking about it.

See? The media have blacked out coverage of Obama's snub of Gordon Brown. Because that hurts the Democrats.

This, they want to talk about.

And when it is suggested to you that

1) This is not an important hill

and

2) This is a hill which is difficult to defend

so

3) We should move on to more important hills,

the "cocktail party elitist" crap starts.

Here's the real insult for you.

Forget "cultish."

How about:

This is fundamentally an unserious and unimportant issue and those who keep fighting it are demonstrating they do not have the interest in fighting the serious and important issues but would rather dwell on the trivialities and distractions THAT OBAMA'S TEAM HAS COOKED UP FOR YOU?

My take? It's simple. It was not a helpful comment. I will not defend it because I do not have the time or inclination to waste my time on trivialities. SO LET'S TURN THE PAGE AND MOVE ON.

Like -- how about we fucking talk about the stuff OBAMA DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT?

Why are you guys so jazzed to do precisely what Obama wants you to do? The White House has admitted it cooked this up as a distraction, and i'm trying to tell you fuck the distraction, make a decision and let it go and move on, and all I get is this nonsense that I'm not fighting Obama enough by concentrating on the little trivial distraction he constructed for me.

106 Ace,
  No one is asking you to defend the statement. Let Rush defend what he says.
What everyone is up in arms about is people like Frum using it to suggest Rush should be flushed because of it and using liberal arguments to do it. Fucking Katrina...are you kidding me? He's not arguing the statement he's arguing the man which is exactly what the libs wanted when they started it.

107 So, you're saying that pointing out that this distraction is cooked up and demonstrating that this is part and parcel of Obama's new politics is a bad thing?

108 TedK--

Do you really think that Iraq soldiers blamed the bad phase of the war on the fact that Democrats were hoping the war would be a failure?

No -- their hoping had little to do with what happened.

But they also didn't like the fact that Democrats were actively cheerleading their deaths and dismemberments.

Hoping for a bad outcome doesn't make the bad outcome happen-- but people don't like to hear you're rooting for their hardships.

109

The media have blacked out coverage of Obama's snub of Gordon Brown. Because that hurts the Democrats.

This, they want to talk about.

You say that almost as if you believe that, had the Limbaugh issue not come up, the media would have went after Obama on the British snub. But even if they didn't have the Limbaugh kerfuffle, they STILL wouldn't talk about Obama's screwups. They'd push some other story that helped their cause. I think the point several of us are trying to make is that we don't want anything to do with the media's agenda. They're going to hang us anyway. Why bring them the rope and make the noose for them?

110 Next time someone tells a lie about you, Ace, or Patterico or Allah, please remind me that it's none of my business, because you might have expressed yourself less ambiguously.

111 Ace,

I have no desire to belabor all of this, either, but it's your damn blog!  So far this afternoon we've got three fucking posts about this and nothing about "stuff OBAMA DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT"!

That wasn't my call.

So rather than calling those of us who aren't bothered about Limbaugh cultists, why don't you set the example for what we should be talking about and get back to Obama so that we can "let it go and move on."

112 Posted by: Dan Collins at March 08, 2009 04:33 PM (SohFK)

A-fucking-men.

113

Wow, in the time it tok me to write my comment Ace went off the deep end.

Alright, yes I do want Obama to fail and I don't give a damn if it is a minority position (although the polls indicate it is a bigger minority than 10-15% and is growing).  Yes, I understand that may lead to electoral defeat but if the people either want what Obama is providing or are too scared of sounding like a a member of the "Cult of Limbaugh" then we get what we deserve.  It sucks yes, but if that is what the American people are today then we don't deserve either our wealth or our power.  And if that is what the American people are today then there's not much we can do to stop it ultimately.  Sure we can all "smart like" as the Axis of Smart-likes (Frum, Allah, and apparently Ace) want and win an election or two but the end result won't be changed, it'll only be delayed.  In that event our only hope is make our I-told-you-so case now and hope that after the fact the American people will become the American people of 1775-2005 again and come back to our side.

114 #103
Very good points.

My take? It's simple. It was not a helpful comment. I will not defend it because I do not have the time or inclination to waste my time on trivialities. SO LET'S TURN THE PAGE AND MOVE ON.

Fine.  We didn't post the threads today on Rush and Patterico.  Gabe said he was tired of it, so tired that he began his own thread with a long rant on the subject.  Please note that this subject seems to expose a large cultural divide in so-called conservative circles.  I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Our dilemma nowadays is not political, it's cultural.  The forces that put Obastard in place are not going away soon, and political processes cannot do much about it.  When the time comes, someday, for an opposition party to be nationally relevant again, people will want to know what the opposition to the institutionally dominant Obastard Party want to accomplish.  I hope people thinking like Jeff Goldstein have a place there.

115

" This, they want to talk about."

They will talk about anything, anything that makes Republicans look bad. If they didn't have this, it would be a Mark Foley-type scandal where they just make shit up.

It[s time to accept that those asshole shave a control on the message that gets to people, they know it, and they will do whatever they want.

And Steele and Frum kissing their fucking asses is not HELPING.

Frum is a liberal. It's obvious, Steele is a glad-handing smiling jackass, that's obvious too.

Gotta accept that this Rush shit would happen regardless and bitching about it is pointless.

If only Republicans would just freeze those idiots out, make them look bad and expose the lies, and stop being scared, it could be broken.

But no one cares about philosophy anymore...that idiot Frum is talking about nationalized health care.

Suck it Frum, you douchebag.

116 So rather than calling those of us who aren't bothered about Limbaugh cultists, why don't you set the example for what we should be talking about and get back to Obama so that we can "let it go and move on."

Amen again. 

And as far as the use of the term "cultists" for those that aren't upset about Limbaugh's proclamation after calling Frum out for his ad hominem, well ... physician, heal thyself.

117 I'm not saying Limbaugh should be flushed.

But this idea that every conservative must defend every incautious thing that comes out his mouth or HIMSELF be flushed is revolting.

This is conservative site. It's not Defend Limbaugh At All Costs site.

The two are not the same thing. Or are they?

118 It's Ace's site, and if he wants to growl a bunch of non-sequiturs and ignorationes elenchi at us, that's his prerogative.  But I just don't see where anyone is claiming that "I hope he fails" is core conservative doctrine, or that all true conservatives must accept the dogma of Rushian Infallibility.  Instead, I see people claiming (1) that the left (and especially the Obama administration) shouldn't be allowed to get away with blatantly lying about and misrepresenting what Rush said and (2) that what Rush in fact said, as opposed to what he is misrepresented as having said, is eminently defensible.  (1) and (2) both seem right to me, though perhaps I'm missing something.

119 But then the denialism comes in, claiming it wasn't a bad remark, but a great one, and that Steele should have defended it, and because he didn't he has to go, etc.

The best way to defend it is to quote it, in full.  Rush did a classic style argument: shocking statement to get your attention, explain the point in detail, and drive it home with a repeat of the "shocking:" statement. 

That's argument not polemics.  We need more of it from the Republicans.

120 But this idea that every conservative must defend every incautious thing that comes out his mouth or HIMSELF be flushed is revolting.

You mean as in the way they defended Rush's support of the Dubai Ports deal, i.e. something he favored while the conservative base vehemently disagreed with him?

Conservative have shown the willingness to call out Rush when he is indeed wrong.  But regarding his wish to see Obama fail in implementing his socialist agenda, he wasn't wrong.

121 What Rush said was ambiguous. I have seen numerous Rush defenders saying he meant he hopes the country goes into economic calamity so that the greater evil of socialism is repudiated.

I am not taking a position on what he meant.

But many of his supporters AGREE with the "strong form" of the statement.

So I don't get this notion that his remark was "twisted" or "distorted." It was open to several fair interpretations. Because some of those fair interpretations are very impolitic, I chose not to defend it, but rather suggest he should be more careful with his words.

For this light criticism -- "show more care with your words" -- Patterico, me, Allah, and everyone else who is not currently committed to defending four words or recent vintage is deemed a splitter, or "accepting the left's premise" and etc.

Gingrich himself said, at CPAC, "it's hard to tell conservatives they can't fight for EVERY point at once, and they have to focus on the important battles."

God, was he right.

But people try to make that point to you and we're bad conservatives.

Is Gingrich a bad conservative? No, he's a savvy one. He doesn't want to get bogged down in battles that are 1) unimportant and 2) hard to win on.

122

But this idea that every conservative must defend ...

Has anybody called you a cultist for defending Steele?

123 Toby,

If you yourself admit the statement was "shocking," why on earth should I commit any energy to defending it?

124

Frum is a Canuck, what do you expect? Which brings the following to mind:

Three guys are out boozing, one from Dallas, one from Toronto and one from Buttalo.

Guy from Dallas whips out a bottle of whiskey, takes a big swig, throws the bottle into the air and shoots the bottle! "In Texas," he says, "we got lots of whiskey and lots of bottles!"

Guy from Toronto whips out a bottle of champagne, take a big swig, throws the bottle into the air and shoots the bottle! "In Canada," he says, "we got lots of champagne and lots of bottles!"

Guy from Buffalo whips out a bottle of beer, drains it, puts the bottle in his pocket and shoots the Canadian! "In Buffalo," he says, "we got lots of Canucks, but bottles are worth a nickel!"

125 This is conservative site. It's not Defend Limbaugh At All Costs site.

The two are not the same thing. Or are they?

No, they aren't. Is it a site which will take people like Frum seriously when they use tactics like this? Are we seriously supposed to think this about "I hope he fails" for Frum? And not about marginilizing staunch conservatives? Especially on social issues?

126

we aren't defending Rush becasue we agree with everything he says or does, some who are defending him don't even like him.

we defend him because he is one of us, warts and all, i just don't know how to put it any plainer

127 Iblis:

Explain this to me:

When

The FUck

Did "I hope he fails"

become

fucking

core

conservative

philosophy

which I am required

to defend to the death

to prove I'm a good conservative?

That's your construct dude. Take a fucking pill. I never argued that. Although I agree the Obama should fail. And for all its inelegance, "I hope he fails" sums up concisely conservative opposition to socialism. And maybe its shortsightedly cathartic, but after 8 years of Bush bashing some fairly minor turnabout is fair play.
The reason people are so passionate about this,I think, is because they're tired of conservative intellectuals and Republican "leaders" telling them they have to junk their beliefs, lay down, and roll over for some myth of bi-partisanship or moderation. Since 94, really, conservatives have had Republicans promising them the moon, low taxes, strong defense, small government, accountability, etc. And we're lucky to get 2 off the list. People get tired, but unlike Democrat constituents, who keep letting themselves be screwed by the people who allegedly speak for them, conservatives have said "Enough".
Then there's always that dump the so-con rubes undercurrent of these intellectuals that really lights peoples' fires.
Rush isn't the leader of the Republican party. He's a conservative sophist. He can afford to be more brazen and controversial. He just has to get ratings. On the other hand Republicans have been such milquetoasts lately that they're afraid of their own shadow. The have no confidence in the principles they're supposed to be espousing, and because of that they're not capable of coming up with ideas they could use to counter the Messiah's agenda.
And what I've been saying is that Republicans do need to get out and fight. They had plenty of winnable elections last cycle, and they've got 2 big chances this year.But they've got to show that they're actually in the ideological game to win.
So far they haven't shown that.

I can understand you're afraid that because Rush has high negatives among certain demos, that the Republicans can get negatively tarred with them. But frankly the Repubs have been fucking themselves so hard lately that whatever Limbaugh does isn't gonna do anything to people's perspective of them. If there was a moral and philosophical alternative to the Republicans I'd be all over it. Heck I'm not even a Republican, I'm a registered conservative in NY.
Right now Republicans are trying to figure out where they want to go. Do they go dem light, or do they go Reagan. Now some argue that the era of Reagan has passed. In terms of policies, that's true. But in terms of principles, not really. This is all just a massive circle-jerk until a leader rises up. But that doesn't have to happen until 2010.

   

128 We're making a category error here.  Ace and Patterico are not the same as Allah and Frum.  Ace and Patterico counsel caution.  Allah (conservative econ is a matter of religious faith, I love controversy) and Frum (all enemies reside to my right, harsh ad hominems), troll the base and act like victims when people notice.

129 Let me be a reverse elitist here and state that ... David Frum has never produced a DAMN thing in his life.

I just read his Wiki article - and I assume it's all correct.  Nothing in there about him being able to pick up a rifle, draw a bead, and take down a moose - like beauty Queen Sarah Palin can.

Nothing in there about him being able to properly load up a trailer - and back one into a crowded cul de sac. 

Nothing in there about him working on an oil rig, or welding on a ship frame, or being able to sync a carburetor rack from a V65 Honda motorcycle.

Not a damn thing in it about him serving his country (by the way - which one is it?  Canada or the U.S.?)

Now I'm sorry - but it's not too much to ask that I guy like him - educated though he may be - know a bit of the "practical" side of life.  In fact - the only thing he really knows is writing and blowing hot air ... and oh yeah - maybe he's licensed to practice law somewhere.  But in short - all that makes David Frum is one big PUSSY.

And I'm sorry - but I don't listen to Pussies. 

David Frum - he doesn't "have it".  He shouldn't be listened too - he's too out of touch with normal man.

Pfft!

130 If you yourself admit the statement was "shocking," why on earth should I commit any energy to defending it?

Because the statement was part of an excellent argument that needs to be heard and repeated. 

I argue this way all the time, and admit it, you yourself use this style of argument on occasion.  I've posted a link to the transcript from his show and I assume you heard his speech at CPAC.  It was good stuff, understandable, defendable and strong.  To let the media Dowdify, our arguments without protest, is to surrender.

131 We're making a category error here.  Ace and Patterico are not the same as Allah and Frum.  Ace and Patterico counsel caution.  Allah (conservative econ is a matter of religious faith, I love controversy) and Frum (all enemies reside to my right, harsh ad hominems), troll the base and act like victims when people notice.

That's right, Ace isn't a Frum. At least he wants to win. Frum just wants to be the token eccentric and the Wine and Brie parties.

132 Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails January 16, 2009

If I wanted Obama to succeed, I'd be happy the Republicans have laid down.  And I would be encouraging Republicans to lay down and support him.  Look, what he's talking about is the absorption of as much of the private sector by the US government as possible, from the banking business, to the mortgage industry, the automobile business, to health care.  I do not want the government in charge of all of these things. I don't want this to work.  So I'm thinking of replying to the guy, "Okay, I'll send you a response, but I don't need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails." (interruption) What are you laughing at?  See, here's the point.  Everybody thinks it's outrageous to say.  Look, even my staff, "Oh, you can't do that."  Why not?  Why is it any different, what's new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails?  Liberalism is our problem.  Liberalism is what's gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here.  Why do I want more of it?  I don't care what the Drive-By story is.  I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: "Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails."  Somebody's gotta say it. 

133

Here is the Frum v Levin dispute in a nutshell. And it's the same as the Steele v Rush, Parker V Palin and a lot of similar disputes.

On the Frum side you have those who think the GOP's problem is that it's been just too darn ideologically right-wing. They think the way back to power is to "me too" large chunks of the Democrats agenda, on the grounds that the left has already won the debate on most subjects. They think conservatism is a millstone around the GOP's neck and needs to be downplayed or discarded.

On the Levin side you have those who think the GOP fell from grace with the public because it spent the last several years trying be Ted Kennedy's bestest buddy and doing exactly what the Frum's of the world want. These people say "lets try conservatism for a change".

Both of these things cannot be true, and it's impossible to split the difference between them. So everybody has to pick a side and argue for it.

 

 

134 I view the statement dispassionately: Does it help or hurt? It hurts. It's not calamitous or anything, but to the extent it has an impact, it's hurtful.

Ace, it's hurtful only because the media gave it wall-to-wall coverage and Republicans, such as yourself, ran away from it screaming "eek, eek."

Never mind the fact that if Steele were smart, he could have easily defended it in front of those rap idiots on CNN, as JackStraw brilliantly demonstrated in a single paragraph. Never mind that for the past 8 years, Democrats and their media lackeys have been saying far worse things about Bush, and have consistently gotten a pass from the MSM.

Why do some incidents suddenly become big stories in the MSM, and others, that you would think would be equally egregrious, do not? There were several outstanding opportunities here for Republicans to educate the public and recapture some of the initiative. Instead, they all hid under the bed.

This poor leadership is what is killing the GOP.

135 Meh. I enjoyed Levin's takedown of "moderate" Frum. As to Frum's whitepaper on how the GOP should proceed, I'll pretty much dismiss it entirely. Frankly, I don't much care what these moderates say anymore. I've witnessed where it has been taking the country since Reagan. I'm not impressed.

I used to think Rush was acerbic, obnoxious, and egotistical... until I listened to his show. The Left works overtime to pigeonhole Limabaugh because he remains philosophically stable and true to conservatism and not the Repubican flavor of the month. It cannot be said enough - they aren't the same.

The anchor of a philosophy will always be the target of the other pole, tugged at like a neverending tide. But ask yourself, who remains true to core, conservative principles the most reliably, and when have those principles been most closely followed? I'd argue the likes of Limabaugh and Levin remain the anchors, and the principles from those anchors were only really followed under Reagan. Can you say that "conservatism" had been closely followed under G. Bush, Clinton, Bush, or really any Congress during that time? Sure, "Contract with America" was a brief interlude of conservatism, but it was so abbreviated as to have been essentially wasted and forgotten - by both Left and Right. So, we haven't exercised conservatism since, well, Reagan.

The "extreme" right hasn't had a voice or movement in decades. If you listen to Limbaugh or Levin, you find that they aren't extreme though the Left, the media, and the Frums et al. of the world would perpetuate that meme so as to advance liberalism/nanny state to various degrees. No thanks. I'm anchored with Limbaugh and Levin even if I don't always agree with them. They are philosophically sound. And conservative.

Frum isn't. He really has little to say to me and I'm done listening to him. Can he breach the gap with "moderates?" Who knows. How do you appeal to people so oblivious to the political realm that they don't even know which party runs Congress? It's a futile exercise. They're overwhelmingly moody and generally indifferent. Such a demographic will become interested only long enough to vote and will be heavily influenced by contemporaneous issues around election day. Knowing that, it's probably best to wage your war at the pole and not at the middle so that a strong, obvious choice is available when the disenchanted or detached finally get exercised enough to change their minds.

136

"This poor leadership is what is killing the GOP."

No doubt about it, but it is what happens in politics, ass kissing douchebags like Frum and Steele get ahead...and whatever philosophy they have, even if they don't know what the fuck it is, is what we get.

Frum indicated on Levin's show that Republicanism should now be based in a  leftist socialist/third way morass, and really consequences be screwed.

Fuck that, that is irresponsible and weak.

It was "silly" that he supported the Iraq war?

Mr. Axis of Evil is saying this?

Jeezis Christ...

137 I like how the "Good Christian" uses Slurs against the Disabled like Mongoloid. I am sure Jesus likes that

138

On "tone," any criticism of Rush is merely fodder for the Left.  The man's been on the air for over 20 years.  His style is aggressive and mocking and no holds barred within the broadest bounds of taste and FCC regulations.  Always has been.  But NOW suddenly some on the right are "concerned" about his "tone"?

 

What's peculiar is to see complaints about his "tone" coming from .... AOSHQ! We all, Ace very much included, say things about Obama on a daily basis that make Rush sound like David Brooks.

139 "Do you want to win fucking elections or do you want to rant? "

What's the point of winning elections if you're no different from the people you are running against?

I'll just add that I'm no Rush fan either. I'm just someone who "dispassionately" looked at his statement and then the puling counter-mush of Dreher, Patterico, Frum, and now you, and have decided that Rush was right. Obama's plans are bad for America, therefore he must fail. That's what anyone with half a brain can see Rush meant; it's so easy even a Mongoloid Rightwinger can do it!

140

Rod Dreheer must have had granola pounded into hsi ears by Andi Sullivan and his very muscular glutes.

Oh, he's a Crunchy Con, only people that he likes can be one and no one else can play that hasn't been invited to be one.

Assholes.

141

I don't know whether Frum needs a pimp or an organ grinder. Either way, most sailors don't know the last name of the whore they fucked last night, and most folks don't know the name of the monkey they have slipped a quarter. So the "controversy" exists entirely in Frum's deranged head. No one gives a shit about him. Bottom line. And given the traffic his sites generated, Frum should envy the wealth of the monkey let alone the whore.

142

I don't know whether Frum needs a pimp or an organ grinder. Either way, most sailors don't know the last name of the whore they fucked last night, and most folks don't know the name of the monkey they have slipped a quarter. So the "controversy" exists entirely in Frum's deranged head. No one gives a shit about him. Bottom line. And given the traffic his sites generated, Frum should envy the wealth of the monkey let alone the whore.

143

I don't know whether Frum needs a pimp or an organ grinder. Either way, most sailors don't know the last name of the whore they fucked last night, and most folks don't know the name of the monkey they have slipped a quarter. So the "controversy" exists entirely in Frum's deranged head. No one gives a shit about him. Bottom line. And given the traffic his sites generated, Frum should envy the wealth of the monkey let alone the whore.

144 Was it Jerry Pournelle who years ago coined the phrase "the egregious David Frum"?

145 Why the nastiness toward conservatives? David Frum wants to be invited to all the best parties, and Rod Dreher doesn't want to be snubbed when he shops at Whole Foods.

146 Frum is a turd of the highest order. Ignore the snotbag and get on to more important things. We just put eight years of moderately unsuccessful Republican governance in the rear view and now we see an idiot in Steel and buttkissers like this Frum dude in our windshield, can it get more retarded right now?
By the way, wasn't it David Frum who married Liza Zombie Minnelli?

147 It appears to me that when you see the smoke forming from all the conservative intra-mud-sligging, you cannot help but wonder who in his right mind would like to jump in with fresh ideas and help lead the conservative movement into rejuve-nation-building. Then again, it appears that the ultra conservatives dont want to the "fresh" ideas. Same ol' wont get us or them anywhere except another pay raise at their radio station. Perfect example of self-serving survival of the fittest...

148 I have read the recent self serving ramblings of David Frum and have consigned him to the same place that A. Sullivan inhabits.  Neither one has anything to say that I am the least bit interested in reading.

There is work to be done and David Frum is neither leading or following so I would appreciate it if he would please get the hell out of the way.

149 Frum and the Dinner Party Republicans tell us nonstop that the conservative base has to throw down their weapons and do what their elite betters tell them. He whines that the Dinner Party Republicans are being cast out as nonbelievers by such charlatans as Rush, yet will not consider the deeply held beliefs of those conservatives. Davey's reach is all one way, we must drop ours and pay close attention to the DPR's carefully nuanced plan.

Back in 93, we were spoon fed the Shining Boy President and the Smartest Woman in the World as infallible, the Year of the Woman congressional elections drove the final stake into the heart of the Reagan Revolution. We were told the Bubba's "Third Way" was the wave of the future, the Republican Party was in its final decline. He was the shining rock star much loved by youth, celebrity, and the hip.

Rush Limbaugh took up the battle cry of "America Held Hostage, Day __" and bothered the Clintons to no end.  Newt Gingrich credited Rush many times as the emotional driver for the 1994 resurgence which threw the DemSM into shock.  Did Newt engineer a plan called "let's realize the country has changed and go along to get along"? No, he did it with the "Contract With America" restating the Reagan principles of the 80s.

Where were the DPR's back then? Saying such nice things about the youth and brilliance of Bill and Hillary.

150
"And yet you guys are committed to defend the statement -- not Limbaugh himself; just four words he uttered -- to the death, as if theyre the words of the Constitution itself. "

No, we're committed to the idea that a four-word sentence with no context (which can be easily parsed to convey a perfectly reasonable sentiment anyway) should not provoke tut-tutting from one's own side.  Why the hell to we have to be all careful and shit when explaining our sentiments in an expressly partisan forum?  Shouldn't we be getting more exercised about the dishonest snark and sabotaging tone of 95% mainstream media news that STILL claims it's objective?  but instead we expend energy four words uttered by Rush? 

Get off his back and then we'll get off yours. Rush is not the enemy, and he doesn't have to be perfect or blameless in every spoken word (as if that were possible)  to be an acceptable spokesman for our side.

151 487 posts on Rush today.  Just on this blog. I would love know how many "Rush" posts have been made today,on all sites.

152 Good post, Ace.

153 LiveFreeOrDie at March 08, 2009 07:35 PM (Te0yM)

Would have been a good post if not for the fact that Ace actually did wade in and trashed Rush, thus contributing to the conservative circular firing squad.

154 Good post, came here from Hot Air, and am glad that Allahpundit used this tonight. Hope that you see this - I thought your piece was thoughtful and dead on target. I love Rush, but that does not mean he is not capable of some self promotion. Also, your statement about figuring out why you might disagree with an idea, the process of doing so, that is, is great. It's like the philosophy class you took in college - you had to figure out a particular piece of logic before you could decide whether or not you agreed with it.

155

Rush is on the air 15 hours per week.  David Frum has a mini-blog and wants to be seen as the next Buckley.

The funny thing is that Buckley liked Rush (at least enough to invite him over).  The last great push back to Leftism was with Newt, Armey, Gramm. 

Did any of those go after Rush...no indeed. 

Frum piqued my interest in the NewMajority, but I don't see anything that interesting over there.

156 Um, is it telling that I had never heard of Frum before his ignorant rant against Rush? Who is this nobody and why does anyone give a shit what this turd thinks?

157 >>> Why the hell to we have to be all careful and shit when explaining our sentiments in an expressly partisan forum?

My problem is less with the statement itself than with the imputation that anyone, like Patterico, who says "Hey, look, I can see why some people might read this the wrong way, and Rush should be careful about that," is suddenly persona non grata.

There may be some things over which the movement can literally brook no dissent whatsoever but for the love of everything holy is this one of them?

No one can even suggest that this is a troublesome statement that lends itself to easy caricature?

And I repeat: We are wasting our time and energy trying to defend this statement as "true" or trying to convince people it's a great statement. Better to just say "that was a loose remark, he didn't really mean it that way" and move on to trying to persuade about something that *matters.*

Like, um, socialism.

If we're trying to convince people Obama's policies take us down the dead road of socialism, why don't we spend our energy of that, instead of insisting over and over "I hope he fails" is a statement incapable of being misconstrued?

(And again: Many of Rush's *supporters* construe it in the "bad way" that it is insisted only an unfair partisan liberal could construe it. So the remark IS indeed easily capable of misinterpretation. Why all the energy and emotion spent claiming what is self-evidently untrue?)

158 >>>I argue this way all the time, and admit it, you yourself use this style of argument on occasion.

Of course I do. ALL THE TIME. I do. Of course.

But look -- if somehow one of my more obnoxious statements was being used against the party, I'd say, "Hey, yeah, I was spitting fire there. I was writing without taking pains to be clear. Here's the way I meant it," and offer a statement that said all the good things I meant but specifically denied the "bad things."

I am honestly telling you that I've read Rush's fuller quote and I *still* think the statement can fairly be read as "I hope Obama fails, and the economy doesn't recover, because it's THAT important that liberty be preserved."

I don't even think that reading is a "bad" reading -- I sure the fuck don't want this bastard to make socialism popular.

But I come in here saying something fairly small -- "Hey, while I get that statement myself, I'm not sure that's the message you want to be sending when the unemployment rate is 8.1% and climbing" -- and I'm read the bleeding riot act.

159 A squabble about political messaging and mere *tactics* -- what messages are tactically effective -- is being turned into some kind of test along the lines of "If you're not with Rush, you're with the enemy."

Huh?

160 Again, I'm not "against Rush."

I'm trying to say, at great length, that every minute we're stuck on this issue we're stuck on stupid and losing. You say "fight," but we're fighting from a *defensive position* where the best we can do is draw. That's the *best* we can do.

Why not just say "Rush didn't mean that, he could have phrased it better, but HERE IS THE REAL MESSAGE" and fight on something important?

161 Frum's another republican who wants to be democrat-lite.  He wants to support abortion and immigration and simply "better manage" big gov't.  He also supports an interventionist foreign policy.

And why shouldn't he keep pushing it.  Does any republican come to mind who has the balls to call immigration what it is -the intentional displacement of whites, or speak against affirmative action, or publicly call out abortion as murder?  The best the republicans can put forward it McCain?  It's time for a new party, the repubs might as well keep Frum.

162

I saw Frum on Fox yesterday - he said that a whopping 11% of the 18-34 demographic had a favorable view of Rush.

Not surprising, Rush is like the blowhard uncle who won't shut up for a second at the family dinner.

163 nike shoes

164

1) Right after the last election, Rasmussen did a poll, and only 21% of the reponders self-identified themselves as LIBERAL. About 39% said CONSERVATIVE, the remaining MODERATE/INDEPENDENT. Of course, this is still a Center-right country. This arguement gets brought up everytime a Dem wins. As for Obama winning, a big part of it was the pendulum effect, things swing back and forth, the war, the economy was going down, and the Republicans were acting like Dem-lite, and we ran McCain. He was a shoe-in.

2) Do any of you really believe this will be a discussion/factor by the time elections roll around again? This is a brief interlude during a boring time during a long winter when people are stressed and scared. Either things will get better and people will move on, or they will get worse and people will be concentrating on that.

165

3) Not having a true leader right now is not a major deal. Can you name who was the last Democratic leader when they were fully out of power? IT IS ALWAYS THIS WAY. It will take a little while for someone to emerge. If they aren't effective, and our Repubs in Congress don't grow some nards, it won't matter, anyway.

4) Someone said probably only 1 in 10 person could name the last RNC Chairman. I can do even better. Starting from 93, when I first started working for the party: Barbour, Nicholson, Gilmore, Racicot, Gillespie, Mehlman, Duncan, and Steele. How many people can do that? I doubt very many care to, I just worked with them.  The danger with ditching Steele now, for all those who don't follow politics, and that is a massive number, it will be seen as racist. Trust me. I just pray he gets his shit together-fast.

5) Frum is a douchenozzle, and sounds like a freak on the tape with Levin. He tries to accuse Mark of "chasing cars," yet sounds like one of my chihuahuas barking at the UPS man. I don't know what was worse, the yapping, or the ghey giggling into the phone. Sad. Sick. Little. Man.

166 Can someone PLEASE explain to me why Frum enjoys such an elevated platform? And throw in David Brooks, for that matter. WHAT the hell did they DO to garner so much intellectual respect among conservatives in general?

It's like the thing about Jimmy Carter being off-the-charts smart; when did Carter ever exhibit any of this alleged intelligence?

I used to put Dick Morris in the same category as the two MSM-wooing cuntservitives above, but recently he's got me convinced that he not only has incredible depth and goes after the Left with a pair of brass ones, but that he's not about to shiv one of the genuine number just to increase his profile on the Manhattan cocktail circuit.

Seriously, FUCK Brooks and FRUM.

As for Dreher? Could anyone be geher?

167

How can you sell Prescription Glasses so much? We are the Cheap Glasses manufacturer ourselves!

I have received my dental loupes . They are very comfortable around the ears on the bridge of my nose.  am very impressed, they are much better in quality  comfort than my last pair of surgical loupes

168 Wow.  David Frum is REALLY a cocksucking dicksack.   Him and Peggy Noonan and Chris Buckley and all their merry little band of window lickers can eat my shit.

Jerkoffs.

169 ace,

...a woman who is currently not in national politics at all, except through others speculating about her.

last i saw, she had already established a pac for her 2012 presidential run.


I think some of the self-style "elites"...

"self-styled"? seriously? you mean that isn't a pejorative slung by the palinite populists?

i'm trying to imagine where this "self-styling" is located. i'm looking right now for the frum column which opens, "...As a pointy-headed country club RINO fag who wants to turn the Republican party into Dem-lite, ..."

you need a refresher on how this rift rifted. it went something like this:


SETTING: INT. Day One of the Age of Obama

PALINITE: I am vindicated. clearly it was this imigrant-kissing RINO backstabber's fault that the election was lost. The only good thing about him was that he delivered unto us Sarah. If McSATAN had been more like Sarah, we would have been victorious. If we intend to triumph in the future, we must systematically identify RINOs and cleanse the party of them utterly.

"SELF-STYLED ELITE": While Social Conservatism is an essential part of conservatism, it is clear from these data that the party has successfully ghetto-ized itself. Perhaps a rebalancing of emphases could serve to support a policy agenda which is more relevant to the suburban moderates we've lost these past two elections.

PALINITE: UUUUNNNGGGHHHH! I"LL CUT YOUR THROAGHT YOU RINO....RINO, RINO-ASS FUCKIN RINO!!!!!!!

PALINITE 2: Heh.You sent that RINO packin' bro. Good one.

PALINITE: Yea, well you know how these RINOs are; the second you hit 'em with facts and logic, they go running with their tail between their legs.

"SELF-STYLED ELITE": Well I don't think we need to "purge" anyone from the party. You see, Conservatism is a three-legged stool...

 PALINITE: STFU WITH YOUR "BIG TENT" BULLSHIT, YOU RINO DOUCHEBAG. WHEN YOU SAY "BIG TENT" ALL YOU MEAN IS TO BE MORE LIBERAL. LIKE YOU. YOU'RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO BE A RINO ANYMORE. YOU'RE THE ANTITHESIS OF A CONSERVATIVE, YOU LIBERAL. GO WORSHIP YOUR HERO OBAMA.

"SELF-STYLED ELITE": You're an asshole.

PALINITE 2: Outrage!

PALINITE: (sob) Sir, Why must you brutalize me so? Am I not a fellow conservative?

ACE: Hey, hey, hey! Mr. "Self-Styled Elite"! I know you think you're better than everyone else, but can we try to disagree without the rancor?


i'm not anti-limbaugh. but i can't swallow this portrayal of limbaugh as the victim of "self-styled elites". listen to his november 5th broadcast - from the very first minutes, he's playing a one-note dirge about it being an "opportunity for cleansing" of "pseudo-conservatives".

170 Frum is the guy that got W smeared with the Conservative label.

171 Frum's problem is that he too freely associates the terms Conservative and Republican, and seems to use them interchangeably. In fact, he seems to argue that it is Conservatism(the idea of which is antithetical to the word itself) must be changed for the good of the Republican party.
Sorry, David, its the big tent that must come down. I'd advocate replacing it with a much smaller, stronger brick and steel structure, that would have the masses clamoring to get in.
-OMB

172 "I had to laugh when Frum posted an email, ONE EMAIL, of a liberal who wrote in to say that he found Levin and Rush turning him off more.  Wow, one email, and that shores up Frum's argument perfectly, no further objections!"

Frum is living a fantasy. And even that ONE e-mail is  imbecilic. The man claims to have been a radical leftist 10 years ago but "kept losing arguments" to conservatives so he looked into conservatism and gradually came to agree, especially with free-market principles but then one day he tunes into Rush and was so turned off he stopped considering voting for Republicans altogether (he's still voting for outright socialists  - that is apparently ok - they hate the free market, but they are oh so civil) ) The man, a mathematician, actually wrote

"I still have to constantly tell myself that just because Limbaugh or Coulter or O'Reilly think an idea is good, that doesn't logically mean it isn't. It's hard."

He has to keep telling himself - but it is so hard! Cognative dissonence tormenting the poor man's mind, and if they would only go away the math genius could be free to agree without these difficulties. I commented at Frum's site that I would like to meet this man because I have never met a radical leftist who admitted he was wrong about anything, much less a whole argument.  Someone with experience as a radical leftist can't claim virgin ears when it comes to political speech. I think the letter is a phony.

173 Runescape Gold  
Runescape Money 
dofus kamas pas cher  
acheter des dofus kamas 
Cheap Gaia Gold  
Gaia Online Gold
Buy Maple Story Mesos  
Cheap Maple Story Mesos  
Buy Gaia Gold 

174 "No one can even suggest that this is a troublesome statement that lends itself to easy caricature"

You're asking a lot of Limbaugh if you require him to ponder carefully any and all spin that an extremely hostile media can put on his words.   in fact, you're asking so much of him that you may as well ask him to just shutup.   That's a problem for me.

175 and who gives a crap that only 11% of teenagers like Limbaugh?  i'm sure that was the case 15 years ago as well.  Hell, i would have hated rush when i was a teenager 25 years ago.   young people are liberal and stupid, what else is new?

176

I listen to the Mark Levin show every day, because he is very good when he is dealing with substance.

I felt that while his criticism of Frum was entirely fair, his argument that Shrum should not attack people's physical appearance is greatly weakened by the fact that a good deal of Levin's schtick is ad-hominem and verbal bullying.  This aspect of the show, combined with his endless whinging about "back benchers" regularly tempts me to stop listening to him.  It is a measure of the value of his content that I have not done so.

But Levin clearly hates Glenn Beck, and hell, I *pay* to listen to Glenn Beck.  Not sure I would pay to lisent to Levin.

This stuff may make for good radio, and it may up his ratings.  Fine.  But I find it detracts from his show and makes the listening experience somewhat annoying.

That having been said, it is very important for Mark to keep going.  We need him.   I wish he could see that guys like Beck are more ally than enemy though...

177 Ace is barking up the wrong tree here...you can't be right all the time and he is dead wrong here......it was the Democrats that wished Bush would fail at everything, the economy, the war, social security, you name it. The ends justified the means.
Rush did not say he wanted the country to fail, but Obama's policies to fail, or if you want it better said, that he didn't want Obama to be a successful  President given the socialistic changes he wanted to implement.

178 "Because some of those fair interpretations are very impolitic, I chose not to defend it, but rather suggest he should be more careful with his words."

A cop-out and horseshit....there was nothing wrong with the words....why was it OK for 8 years for the Democrats to wish Bush would fail, but Rush should "be more careful with his words"....Ace should be defending Rush tooth and nail and let Daily Kos and Huffington Post do the "interpreting". Conservatives should band together and say "yes we want Obama's socialistic policies to fail". What is the exact problem with that? If Ace wants to be popular for 15 minutes at Daily Kos he should pick another target rather than Rush.

179 >>>why was it OK for 8 years for the Democrats to wish Bush would fail

See, it wasn't. That's what I'm saying.

Further, I don't even care what he said or what he meant. My problem is that he is a powerful guy, with lots and lots of supporters, and he is using that power to mau-mau politicians -- who do not have the freedom he does to, as some may call it, 'call it like it is" -- to get on the bandwagon for his statement.

I don't see the statement as useful-- it's carthartic for conservatives who wanted to hear a battle cry, sure. But so let the conservatives hear it -- why does that message have to be pushed on politicians who are not seeking only conservative votes but moderate ones too?

Bear in mind this has nothng to do with substance -- no one is rapping him for opposing the spendulus, etc. This is about whether four words -- a rallying cry for angry conservatives, perhaps, but an impolitic statement for many people who don't care about politics, they just don't want to lose their jobs-- must be accepted as some kind of cherished conservative doctrine.

it shouldn't be. I don't care if Limbaugh said it. I certainly don't impugn him for it. But it's a rough-sounding thing to say to people who are anxious about losing their jobs, and it's just stupid politics to force politicians to endorse it.

And yeah, I know, people say he's not forcing people to endorse it. but any time someone seeks to distance himself from the remark, in any formulation, Limbaugh declares radio war on him.

That to me is forcing people to endorse it, if only by evasion and silent.

it's a dumb political play.

180 Yes I do think so. The original Ugg Shoes. UGG is an age old generic term for this style of Australian-made UGGs. UGG is made of plush fleece.We provide fashion Ugg Boots, Our Ugg are skillfully hand crafted. in addition Ugg Australia Class Boots include UGG Sundance 2, UGG Nightfall and UGG Classic Cardy. Discount ugg is also bring a ray of warmth for this winter! Buy our discount ugg, There are plenty of Ugg Sale, and Cheap Ugg here.
GlassesShop particularly pride ourselves on the quality of our eyeglasses lenses and coatings that we offer on all our prescription glasses.

181

This whole controversy is a traffic boost to anyone talking about. It's all anyone wants to talk about, it seems, because it is, ultimately, about personalities, people, scrapes, sniping, emotion and draaaamaa.

You don't need a lot of analysis or heavy intellectualizing to enjoy this debate, or get in on it. Just pick your side and go to town.

It's just like Professional Wrestling...

182 Frum has been seduced by the "Dark Side"

183 FLV Editor is an all-in-one flv editor converter which provides you a powerful editing and converting function. FLV Joiner,FLV Ripper,FLV Clipper,FLV Capture,FLV Spitter,FLV Effect,FLV Cropper,FLV Watermark,FLV Cutter Joiner

184 Greeting. There?s so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets? Help me! Looking for sites on: window Coverings minneapolis. I found only this - trapezoid window Coverings. While turning bamboo fibers into fabric is seldom environmentally friendly, consider bamboo as a material in its original state. Inviting front porch, walkway perennial gdns. Waiting for a reply ;-), August from United.

185 货架 货架 托盘 托盘 货架

186 By means of a distance workout, rolex watches
a GPS running watch can record how far you've run and let you know at what time you've attained your target. replica watches
In a timed workout, the watch acts like a count-down timer.
omega watch
It lets one realize when your selected time period has ended. replica watches
The heart rate workout monitors your pulse and sounds a caution if it goes past your higher limit or falls under your lower limit. rolex watches
In the calorie burn workout, the GPS running watch alerts you once you have burned your target amount of calories.

187 cheap glasses reading glasses 干燥剂 电加热器 电执管 prescription sunglasseseyeglasses medical medical supplies Medical Companies Medical Magazine medical supplies medical

干燥剂 电加热器 电执管 prescription glasses eyeglasses cheap glasses progressive lenses glasses prescription sunglasses

188 replica watches review|hermes handbags|replica handbags| fake handbags| knockoff handbags| replica fendi| Replica Louis Vuitton| replica LV| replica Prada| replica Prada handbags| replica Bottega Veneta| replica Burberry| replica Hermes| replica Jimmy Choo| replica Miu Miu| replica Breitling| replica watch| replica Rolex

189 tiffany jewellery

tiffany jewelry

tiffany

tiffany uk

tiffany jewellery uk

tiffany jewellery sale

tiffany jewellery london

silver jewellery

tiffany jewellery sale

Tiffany Bracelets

Tiffany Sets

Tiffany Rings
tiffany jewelry

tiffany

tiffany uk


tiffany

tiffany uk

tiffany jewellery uk

190 UGG Boots Sale
ugg shoes
ugg classic
cheap ugg
UGG UK
bape shoes
bape shoes sale
cheap bape shoes
UGG UK
UGG boots sale
UGG Classic
discount UGG
UGG Bailey Button
UGG Amelie Suede
UGG Bailey Button
UGG Classic Cardy
cheap UGG Cardy
UGG Classic Crochet
UGG Classic Mini
UGG Classic Short
UGG Classic Tall
UGG Coquette Casual
UGG Gypsy Sandal
UGG Halendi Sandal
UGG Hammond Slipper
UGG Infant's Erin Baby
UGG KnightsBridge
UGG Layback Slipper
UGG Lo Pro Button
UGG Matala Sandal
UGG Napoule Sandal
UGG New Arrival 5389
UGG New Short Boots

191 discounthair straighteners
ghd hair
chi hair straightener
ghd straighteners
chi straighteners
chi hair
chi hair iron
hair straighteners ghd
ghd hair straighteners
free shipping!

192 Discount Boots
Womens UGG
UGG Shoes
UGG Australia
UGG UK
UGG USA
discount ugg boots
cheap ugg boots

193 discountugg boots sale
ugg shoes
tall ugg boots
ugg classic boots
nike shox
air jordan shoes
nike air max
nike air force one
bailey button ugg
rainier ugg boots
ugg classic cardy
ugg crochet boots
ugg mini
ugg classic short
classic tall ugg
ugg coquette
ugg baby boots
ugg knightsbridge
ugg lo pro
new ugg boots
ugg short boots
ugg nightfall boots
ugg skimmer
ugg sundance boots
ultra short ugg
ugg ultra tall
discount ugg slippers
ugg sandals
ugg halendi
ugg slippers
ugg layback
ugg matala sandal
ugg napoule sandal
ugg persephone
tasmina ugg
air force 1 shoes
jordan air shoes
nike shox shoes
air max nike
free shipping!

194 Your post very good,thanks for sharing!Are you also like these:ugg boots uk,buy ugg boots,australia ugg,cheap ugg boots,ugg boots,ugg boots sheepskin,womens ugg boots,ugg australia boots,cheap ugg boots

195 buy Discount Boots
Womens UGG
UGG Shoes
UGG Australia
UGG UK
UGG USA
discount ugg boots
cheap ugg boots
air force 1 shoes
nike air force
air force 1 mens
air force 1 boots
air force onefrom usa

196 Come to our website for shopping with high quality and best service! There have new products,MBT M. Walk
and MBT Lami,Welcome everybody to buy it.

197 Buy discount ugg shoes
cheap ugg shoes
cheap ugg
ugg rainier
buy ugg
ugg usa
discount ugg boots
ugg 5825
ugg shoes sale
ugg sundance
ugg shoes
cheap ugg boots
ugg 5815
ugg sale
ugg uk
ugg knightsbridge
womens ugg boots
ugg boots
ugg australia
ugg 5819free shipping

198 Hi! siCBkIft

199 nike dunk sb

Do anything needed to support an idea, a good idea usually brings good results, doing

business is like that.http://www.dunksky.com/.This site has always been on

200 Fake Watches | Replica watches | Fake Watches | Replica watches | Replica watches | Rolex Watches Replica | A Lange & Sohne Watches | Baume & Mercier Watches Replica | Louis Vuitton Watches Replica | Bedat & CO Watch Replica | Replica Concord Watches | Longines Replica Watches | Corum Fake | Blancpain Watch | Michele Watches

201 If you are looking for buying a quality pair of warm sheepskin boots you really need to try the ugg classic tall boots. The quality of the it means that they will last 4 or 5 times as long as the cheaper copies and the level of comfort they provide to the wearer is much higher.So when it comes to you finding a pair of ugg boots that will match up to any outfit in your wardrobe then it is worth considering investing money in a pair of Ugg classic tall this

202 soccer jersey wholesale | Replica Cartier | Fake Watches | Replica watches | soccer jersey wholesale | Replica Corum Watch | Cartier Fake Watches | Replica Omega Watch | Montblanc Fake Watches | Breguet Fake | Blancpain Replica Watches | Louis Vuitton Fake | Fake Christian Dior | Bedat & Co Watches | Piaget Watch

203 Replica Rolex | Fake Watches | Replica Cartier | Replica Breitling Watches | Replica Breitling Watches | Fake Louis Vuitton Watches | Replica Versace Watches | Hermes Replica Watches | Zenith Fake Watches | Tudor Replica | Technomari Replica Watch | Iwc Watches | Cheap Girard Watches | Burberry Replica Watch | Vacheron Constantin Watch

204 Replica watches | soccer jersey wholesale | Replica Cartier | replica soccer jersey | Replica Omega | best replica watches | Cheap Omega | Fake Patek Philippe | Cheap Technomari Fake Watch | Fake Omega Watch | Seiko Watch | Cheap Technomari Watches | Hublot Wristwatch | Replica Concord Watch | Longines Watch Replica

205 UGG BOOTS

206 mbt cheap
mbt sale
mbt uk
mbt shoes cheap
buy mbt shoes
shoes mbt sale

207 The proper function of man is to live, but not to exist.ugg classic cardyConquer fear of death and you are put into possession of your life. ugg classic tallThere is a time to speak and a time to be silent. ugg knightsbridgefree shippingmbt cheap
mbt sale
mbt uk
mbt shoes cheap
MBT M.Walk

208 Iklan Baris Gratis Iklan Baris Gratis Panti Asuhan Panti Asuhan Kaos Kaos | Oes Tsetnoc Oes Tsetnoc Situs Murah Situs Murah Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa Informasi Pendidikan Indonesia Informasi Pendidikan Indonesia Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa Kerja Keras Adalah Energi Kita Kerja Keras Adalah Energi Kita Kerja Keras Adalah Energi Kita Kerja Keras Adalah Energi Kita Cahbagus Cahbagus Team Sukses Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa Team Sukses Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa febry riyanto febry riyanto Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa

209 The cheap ugg boots sale for women are stylish, they are comfortable and what¡¯s more, they keep your feet. theres a pair of fellow sufferers,ugg australia uk to complement your personal preferences, why do we not take the traditional high discount ugg boots on salefor cold winter?
As a matter of fact, with the passing time, the love for ugg usa is increasing among girls in this modern world. The growing demand for these womens ugg made the manufacturers UGG Boots Sale to revamp the looks of these boots with different hues.come our website and buy a pair of ugg uk.UGG Classic Cardy are popular as shoes for cowboys. The SHOES close the whole parts of the foot. The ugg cardy are important to protect your feet from any dangerous things during your walking activities. There are many oatmeal ugg available in the Market and if you are interested to get one you can directly go to the store that sells it.

210 discount ugg boots
ugg boots outlet
cheap ugg outlet
cheap ugg boots
ugg classic tall
ugg bailey button
ugg rainier
ugg classic cardy
ugg classic crochet
ugg classic mini
ugg classic short
ugg classic tall
ugg nightfall
ugg sundance
ugg ultra short
ugg ultra tall
ugg boots 5389

211 astaga.com lifestyle on the net astaga.com lifestyle on the net • astaga.com lifestyle on the net astaga.com lifestyle on the net • Mengembalikan jati diri bangsa Mengembalikan jati diri bangsa • belajar blog jasa seo jasa seo belajar blog seobelajar blog seo voip phones phone systems hosted voip Website Murah Website Murah ¦ http://do-property.blogspot.com Real Estate Listings ¦ Real Estate Loans ¦ tutor blogspot ¦ artis hot ¦ pembuatan web murah ¦ http://iwan.yehia.org belajar blog • Kaos • Phone systems jasa seo == • astaga.com lifestyle on the net • by team 1 • by team 2 • by team 3 • by team 4 • by team 5 • by team 6 • by team 7 • voip phones • voip phones • dobloger development • jual link • jual link • jual link • jual link • jual link • jual link • hot 3D Link Building • Link Building • Link Building • Gilang • Gilang • Wan Link Building • Tangerang Link Building • Pembuatan Web Murah • blogging reviews • link 1 • link 2 • link 3 • link 4 • link 5 • link 6 • blogging reviews • copas11 •hot keyword • by team online • blogging reviews • Jasa SEO • Phone Center • Download Mp3 • Sahabat Belajar Blog • Bisnis Ciputat • SEO Nekad

212 Today ugg boots online have become a phenomenon.Every winter,the ugg classic crochet are one of the hottest goods in the market all over the world.So now don't be hesitation,own a pair of ugg usa immediately.

213

discount ugg bailey button boots

short ugg boots on sale

UGG Classic Tall

UGG Nightfall boots

214 We supply authentic discount Lacoste Shoes
Lacoste Trainers
New Lacoste
Lacoste Sale
Mens Lacoste
camden lacoste trainers
lacoste trainers shoes
lacoste camden retro
camden lacoste trainers
lacoste carnaby shoes
lacoste carnaby retro
lacoste shoes sale
New Lacoste shoes
Lacoste shoes online
cheap Lacoste shoes
Lacoste shoe
mens lacoste shoes
Lacoste Shua Lace
Black Lace shoes
white Lace shoes
lacoste swerve shoes
White Lacoste shoes
Lacoste shoes sale
Cheap Lacoste shoes
Lacoste Women Shoes
Women Lacoste Shoes
Lacoste Shoes online
on line, cheap price,Top quality,Free shipping!

215 Your article very interesting, I have introduced a lot of friends look at this article, the content of the articles there will be a lot of attractive people to appreciate, I have to thank you such an article
Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa
Mengembalikan Jati Diri Bangsa
Web Design Murah
Febry Riyanto

216 The womens mbt Tembea is a new generation lace-up with Dual Board construction and a striking style that pays tribute to the classic sneaker. It packs in all the mbt lami shoes benefits with a fresh look and feel, striking the perfect balance between health benefits ... The discount mbt Shuguli GTX is a is a sleek and stylish professional shoe ideal for work and more formal occasions whilst delivering full waterproofing from GORE-TEX. These are especially effective for those who have to stand or walk for long periods of time ...
The mbt shoes Fanaka GTX is a sporty but rugged styled shoe that combines fashionable, casual design with all the health benefits associated with the sporting style discount mbt shoes. These are especially effective for ladies who have to stand or walk for long periods ... The black mbt Bia is a classic, professional shoe ideal for work and more formal occasions whilst delivering all the health benefits from MBT design. These are especially effective for ladies who have to stand or walk for long periods of time during work ...

217 Wholesale Stainless Steel Rings Jewelry | Jewelry Tools Yiwu | Tungsten Rings Luxury | Money Clip | Stamping Bangle | Casting Rings Wholesale | Carbon Pendants Wholesale | Titanium Bracelets | Wholesale Cutting Earring Jewelry | Wholesale Tungsten Jewelry Jewelry | Zircon Earring Yiwu | Tiffany Sale Best | Carbon Fiber Bangle Luxury | Stainless Steel Cufflink Fashion | Wholesal Stainless Steel Bracelet | Leather Bangles Cheap | Wholesal Plating Ring | Money Clips Best | Hermes Jewelry Wholesale | Stamping Pendant Yiwu

218 Mengembalikan jati diri bangsa Mengembalikan jati diri bangsa astaga.com lifestyle on the net astaga.com lifestyle on the net • astaga.com lifestyle on the net astaga.com lifestyle on the net astaga.com lifestyle on the net astaga.com lifestyle on the net by team 1
• by team 2 • by team 3 • by team 4 • by team 5 • by team 6 • by team 7 • wan dibsd • Tangerang Info • gilang • gilangku • gilangmu • hot comluv • Link Building • Link Building • link 1 • link 2 • link 3 • link 4 • link 5 • link 6 • Faster 1 • Faster 2 • Faster 3 • Fast Team 1 • Fast Team 2 • Fast Team 3 • Team Fast 1 • Team Fast 2 • Team Fast 3 • Riyani 1 • Riyani 2 • Riyani 3 • Sulistyo 1 • Sulistyo 2 • Sulistyo 3 • Plasa 1 • Plasa 2 • Plasa 3 • Xtra 1 • Xtra 2 • Xtra 3 •
Just 1 • Just 2 • Just 3 • • 3D Hot • 3D dobloger • blogging reviews • Gilang Blogging Reviews • copas11 • Iwan Wordpress • Iwan Wordpress 2 • Gilang Bliblog • Doblogger.Vox • Your article very interesting, I have introduced a lot of friends look at this article, the content of the articles there will be a lot of attractive people to appreciate, astaga.com lifestyle on the net I have to thank you such an article voip phones

219 nike max
air max shoes
nike air max
nike max shoes
air max 1
nike air max 1
air max 2
nike air max 2
air max 89
nike air max 89
air max 90
nike air max 90
air max 91
nike air max 91
air max 95
nike air max 95
air max 97
nike air max 97
air max 180
nike air max 180
air max 360
nike air max 360
air max 2003
nike air max 2003
air max 2009
nike air max 2009
air max ltd
nike air max ltd
air max tn
nike air max tn

220 Replica Gucci Watches | Christian Dior Fake Watches | Bulova Replica Watches | Christian Dior Replica Watches | Replica Tissot Watches | Parmigiani Replica Watches | Replica Emporio Armani Watches | D&G Belt Replica Watches | Watches Rado Fashion | Franck Muller Fake Watches | Replica Emporio Armani Watches | Breguet Fake Watches | Watches Rolex Fashion | Replica Gucci wallet Watches | Replica Rolex Watches | Replica Roger Dubuis Watches | Replica Oris Watches | Replica TAG Heuer Watches | Chopard Fake Watches | Raymond Weil Fake Watches

221 Shopping for a Rolex watch online can tag heuer make the job Rolex Watches easier but you Replica Watches also have to be patek philippe wary about the reputation of the dealer Chanel Watches and the brand of Breitling Watches watch you are audemars piguet getting. The more mont blanc watches considerable you are, the less danger you would come to armani watches when buying a Omega Watches gold watch online.

222 Buy rolex Fake Watches and Replica Watches brands,rolex watches rolex watches, Replica rolex watches, replica rolex: replica rolex,replica rolex: replica breitling watches,replica tag heuer: replica tag heuer,replica cartier watches: replica cartier watches,replica omega watches: replica omega watches,replica panerai watches: replica panerai watches,replica armani watches: replica armani watches,replica audemars piguet: replica audemars piguet,replica bvlgari watches: replica bvlgari watches,replica chanel watches: replica chanel watches,replica gucci watches: replica gucci watches,replica movado watches: replica movado watches,replica montblanc watches: replica montblanc watches,replica patek philippe: replica patek philippe on sale.

223 nike air max 88
nike air max 89
nike air max 90
nike air max 91
nike air max 93

224 Replica rolex watches,tag heuer watches and replica rolex watches,replica watches replica breitling watches breitling watches,chanel watches chanel watches replica patek philippe patek philippe watches,replica audemars piguet watches replica montblanc watches for men and women.

225 Replica fake watches and replica watches brands,rolex watches rolex watches, replica rolex: replica rolex,replica rolex: breitling watches,replica tag heuer: tag heuer,replica cartier watches: cartier watches,replica omega watches: omega watches,replica panerai watches: replica panerai watches,replica armani watches: replica armani watches,replica audemars piguet: replica audemars piguet,replica bvlgari watches: replica bvlgari watches,replica chanel watches: replica chanel watches,replica gucci watches: replica gucci watches,replica movado watches: replica movado watches,replica montblanc watches: replica montblanc watches,replica patek philippe: replica patek philippe sale.Replica rolex watches and tag heuer watches, rolex watches,Replica Watches replica watches,patek philippe patek philippe Watches,audemars piguet audemars piguet,Omega Watches: omega watches,replica Cartier Watches cartier watches,Breitling Watches breitling watches,Chanel Watches: chanel watches,armani watches: armani watches,iwc watches iwc watches,mont blanc watches montblanc watches.

226 We sell rolex and tag heuer watch, rolex watches,Rolex replica watches,replica patek philippe Watches,replica audemars piguet,Omega Watches omega watches,replica Cartier cartier watches,Breitling breitling watches,replica chanel watches,armani watches: armani watches,iwc watches iwc watches,montblanc montblanc watches Replica.Cheap fake watches and replica watches on sale,rolex watches rolex watches, watches replica rolex,replica breitling watches,replica tag heuer: tag heuer,replica cartier watches: cartier watches,replica omega watches: omega watches,replica panerai watches: replica panerai watches,replica armani watches: replica armani watches,replica audemars piguet: replica audemars piguet,replica bvlgari watches: replica bvlgari watches,replica chanel watches: replica chanel watches,replica gucci watches: replica gucci watches,replica movado watches: replica movado watches,replica montblanc watches: replica montblanc watches,replica patek philippe: replica patek philippe sale for people.

227 Cheap replica rolex and tag heuer watches,replica watches of rolex rolex watches replica,buy patek philippe Buy replica watches,fake watches and tag heuer watches.

228 Hair Straightener
GHD
GHD MK4
GHD MK5
Pink GHD
Pink GHI Hair
CHI Camo
Hair Straightener
GHI

229 UGG cardy
Ugg Australia
Ugg Shoes Sale
Bailey Button
ugg boots
Ugg classic cardy
UGG cardy
Ugg Australia
Ugg Shoes Sale
Bailey Button
ugg boots

230 replica rolex rolex and tag heuer watches,replica watches of rolex rolex watches replica,buy patek philippe Buy replica watches,fake watches and tag heuer watches.breitling watches breitling watches at low price.

231 Buy rolex watches,tag heuer watches and replica patek philippe patek philippe watches,replica audemars piguet> replica breitling watches breitling watches,chanel watches chanel watches watches replica montblanc watches.Rolex fake watches and replica watches brands,replica rolex: breitling watches,replica tag heuer: tag heuer, replica rolex: replica rolex replica cartier watches: cartier watches,replica omega watches: omega watches,replica panerai watches: panerai watches,replica armani watches: armani watches,replica audemars piguet: audemars piguet,replica bvlgari watches: bvlgari watches,replica chanel watches: chanel watches,replica gucci watches: gucci watches,replica movado watches: movado watches,replica montblanc watches: montblanc watches,replica patek philippe: patek philippe on sale.replica watches and replica watches.

232 Hair Straightener
chi hair straightener
chi flat irons
chi iron
best hair straightener
ceramic hair straightener
flat iron
pink chi hair
chi hair irons
ghd
Pink GHI Hair
GHD
GHD MK4
GHD MK5
Pink GHD
Pink GHI Hair
CHI Flat Irons
Hair Straightener
chi hair irons
chi hair straightener
best hair straightener
chi hair iron
pink chi hair
chi hair irons
Pink GHI Hair
Pink GHD
GHD
Nike Kobe Shoes
Nike Lebron Shoes
discount nike shox shoes

233 徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信 徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信 徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信|徵信社|徵信

234 The Legends Of Valentines Day Christian Louboutin Shoes is Valentines Day. Tiffany Jewellery is celebrated as a lovers holiday today, with the giving of candy,flowers,or other Cheap Handbags gifts between couples in love.Valentines Day has Tiffany on sale in several different legends that have found their way to us through the ages. In Tiffany Bangles its said that it originated in 5th Century Paul Smith as a tribute to St.Valentine,a Catholic bishop. For eight hundred years prior to the establishment of Valentines Day,the Romans had practiced a pagan celebration in mid-February commemorating young mens rite of passage to the god Lupercus.The celebration featured a lottery in which young men would draw the names of teenage girls from a box.The girl assigned to each young man in that manner would be his female companion during the remaining Uggs year. Fashion Handbags an effort to do away with the pagan festival. Tiffany Accessories Gelasius ordered a slight change in the lottery.Instead of the names of young women, the ladies Handbags would contain the names of saints. Both Tiffany Bracelets and Tiffany Cufflinks were allowed to draw from the box,and the game was to emulate the ways of the saint they drew during the rest of the year.Bailey Button UGG Boots to say,many of the young Roman Handbags for Women were not too pleased with the rule Changes. As we all know, the uk ghd straighteners cheap have design to make up your dreams to have easy manageable, straight and smooth hair in few minutes just with cheap ghd straighteners electronic product.

235 Good replica watches and buy replica watches and replica rolex replica replica tag heuer watches,buy replica replica omega watches and breitling watches replica breitling watches sale at lowest prices.

236 Buy rolex replica watches and replica watches replica replica watches and replica rolex watches patek philippe watches and fake watches and breitling watches,replica tag heuer: tag heuer,replica cartier watches: cartier watches,replica omega watches: omega watches at lowest prices.

237 It seems replica watches that the watch brand Porsche Design is good at creating sporty classic watches. Many of the Replica watches from it are such watches. They are especially designed for men. Some of the products manufactured today by Porsche Design range from luggage, eye-glasses, replica watches wristwatches pens, wallets and so on, all this products being best-selling items. What makes the replica watches products of this brand so popular? That is not only because of the famous reputation of the brand, but because they display the most elegant and posh replica watches fappearance, for those who appreciate style and prestige. If you have enough knowledge of products from replica watches this brand, you would understand these reasons. Defined by modern appearance and functional mechanisms, the replica watches Porsche Design brand has remained true to its intentions as to create timepieces that would meet the expectations of our modern trends and contemporary times. People nowadays seek watches with amazing designs, but at the same time, to provide many functions and to be highly reliable. In a world of speed replica watche and dynamism, Porsche Design proposes sporty watches that managed to impress with their unpretentious designs and the amazing variety of technical functions provided.

238

weight loss weight loss coach handbags coach handbags electronic cigarette electronic cigarette nfl jerseys nfl jerseys tomic tomic nfl jersey nfl jersey abercrombie fitch wholesale  abercrombie fitch wholesale Cartier Montblanc cartier monblanc blackberry fans blackberry fans jordan shoes jordan shoes true religion true religion love coach handbags  love coach handbags monica~yo monica~yo nfl jerseys nfl jerseys ed hardy shirt  ed hardy shirt weight loss tips weight loss tips ghd ghd seochan seochan jerseysshoes shoes wholesale wholesale abercrombie fitch abercrombie fitche tomic tomic time's up time's up skechers shape up shoes  skechers shape ups shoes

239 The replica watches dial design replica watches 100% copy replica watches of the previous omega watches model: the famous Manchester Logo is located at 3 and the cartier watches chronograph 45-minute breitling watches at 9 with orange figures. Football fans can use the very special 45-minute chronograph to measure the halves of a football match. Black patek philippe hour hand and minute hand features yellow luminescent coating. The hour makers, chronograph audemars piguet and the first 15-minute scale of the tag heuer chronograph counter is montblanc watches presented in eye-catching rolex red. Bright Yellow movado watches tones are found on the minute track, date bvlgari watches window and the text.

240 so nice.try curling your hair wthe the CHI hair straightener ,it will make you amazing.just trust it and to use it.

241 well ,you are right.you can make use of the GHD hair straightener to draw attention to those features of your face that you would rather be noticed more.

242 so good.With the ugg boots obsession going so far, it was only natural for many shoe manufacturers to come with cheaper replicas of these famous boots.

243 Certainly watches are Replica Watches used to help people record rolex Watches time, but rolex watches nowadays its functions have enlarged. Replica watches are now tag heuer Watches not only objects that tag heuer watches can tell you what time it is, they are also a status symbol. You should not feel strange when you find someone wearing a watch on his wrist, but use the cell phone to tell time. In that situation, the watch is just showing its luxurious function cartier watches. It is normal and cartier watches perhaps also happens to you. .If asked that among the watches of various brands, which one can suit your taste? There is no doubt that most people will choose Rolex. Whichever social class you are in, it is naturally Rolex was known breitling Watches and cherished breitling watches for a long time. However, the elements do not usually enter the market alone, always come with the price tag up to the hand. For this reason, many people, especially men, their dreams of luxury Rolex watches are buried in omega Watches his heart omega watches. What should I do? Rolex watches are simply stunning worn by the rich and famous, right? No, this world is not the world's richest men, is the world of each. All are equal before the search of luxury and be men's watches respected. Within men's watches, the law, when consumers are in the market, women's watches they should women's watches receive the same treatment. This is the real reason why replica Rolex watches are ladies watches ladies watches more welcome than Rolex. Because in this world are not difficult to understand that the rich are much less than people with low income, you agree with me? You are forced to nod and say with certainty that is the reality. These low-income people do not have enough money to save every month. They can not afford such luxury Rolex watches

244 Cheap replica watches and replica watches 100% copy replica watches of the previous omega watches model: the famous Manchester Logo is located at 3 and the cartier watches chronograph 45-minute breitling watches at 9 with orange figures. Football fans can use the very special 45-minute chronograph to measure the halves of a football match. Black patek philippe hour hand and minute hand features yellow luminescent coating. The hour makers, chronograph audemars piguet and the first 15-minute scale of the tag heuer chronograph counter is montblanc watches presented in eye-catching rolex red. Bright Yellow movado watches tones are found on the minute track, date bvlgari watches rolex on sale.

245 this replica watches replica watchWhoever wants replica watches timekeeper that does the job of a tachometer will be crazy for. The operation is performed by the copied replica rolex 's bezel. The Daytona also applies automatic movement ¨C just one of many breitling watches characters and functionalities that ensures the precision of time. Originally created to measure lap time and the cartier watches overall time of a race, Rolex Daytona replica omega watches timepieces can measure elapsed time for omega any sporting event. The power of this breitling replica item is made possibly by its internalized perpetual rotor mechanism. Known for its precision, this special Rolex replica cartier watch model only has to be set once to the cartier watches standard time of the owner's choice. Once rolex watches being created, it updates itself during time changes, making upkeep of the replica's time setting replica watches nonexistent. Even though these replica watches were made for sporting events, (specifically those involving laps or circuits), it's not so adversible to put them tag heuer in water since they are not fake watches waterproof. Even thought most of the time, the replica watches do not bear the tag heuer same functionalities as the original ones, they are still the most desirable alternatives of the expensive real models.

246 Factors Replica Watches About The Rolex replica watches Oyster The Oyster is so closely get in touch with Rolex, and it is inevitably that some people think these are the only Replica watches Rolex manufacture. Others suppose that there is a single Oyster watch. But as a matter of fact, the name Oyster does not actually meant for a rolex Watches particular watch you can buy rolex watches or even to a series but to a type of case that available in some of the Rolex ranges. History The Oyster case was first released in 1926. The objective was to protect the workings of the watch from dust and moisture. Early watches were far from waterproof. The Oyster tag heuer Watchescase was an tag heuer watches innovative design to eliminate these problems. It had a new double locking crown that screwed into place. It has been compared to the hatch on a submarine. Like a submarine, the Oyster case was waterproof. In 1927 Mercedes Gleitze swam the English breitling Watches Channel breitling watches . Before she set off she was presented with a Rolex Oyster. When she arrived, the watch was still working perfectly. The resulting publicity gave the new case a massive boost. Why is it called Oyster? Legend has it that Hans cartier Watches Wilsdorf cartier watches, who invented the Oyster, chose the name because the new case reminded him of the difficulty he had experienced prising open oysters at dinner. Since then the Oyster has further, particularly advanced. Many Oyster watches today are omega Watches perpetual-self-winding, in other omega watches words, it does not require to expose the mechanism to the outside world in order to wind it. The Osyter Perpetual is one of the toughest, most durable, most reliable watches (under truly adverse conditions). It is probably the best mechanical watch money can buy.

247 Festival Museum Nusantara astaga.com lifestyle on the net Jastika Weblog  Jastika Weblog