1

Bernanke has to advocate bailing out the stupid, the greedy, and the stupid-greedy. That's roughly 70% of the homeowners in California, Florida, Nevada, and Arizona who bought houses between 2002 and 2008. As in, everyone who is now defaulting.

If you don't bail them out, you don't stop the "housing crisis."

2 And, and FIRST!

3 Whoda thunk this story came from teh AP?

4 The housing crisis stops when stupid people don't have houses any more and stupid legislators are no longer in Congress....that's right, it goes on forever.

5 "But his [Obama's] assurance Tuesday night that only the deserving will get help rang hollow."

Well, duh. He's a liar. What do ya need? A sworn affidavit?

Also news... water is wet.

6 Dilbert Gibbs, pick up your phone. Call Sheila Bair. Let her explain the housing bailout to you. You have her phone number, or get an adult to help you find it. Maybe she will invite you over for a coffee, decaf, and you might learn something.

Afterwards, go fuck your mother. Won't be the first time.

7 One wonder just how long Democrats can maintain the disbelief that this guy is a fucking liar. A fucking communist liar.

8 If you're a slobbering moron, stupid as a bag of hammers, don't read and/or don't comprehend what you read, want free handouts, want uncle numbnuts to tell you how to live....we want to welcome you to the Democratic Party!  We're lookin for "no brainers"

9 Housing crisis my ass.  Houses have been over valued for years and were never worth the ridiculous amount of money buyers paid for them.  Not that a lot of people paid for them.  Where is it written that housing prices can never fall?  People lose money on their investments every day, especially whenever the President speaks.  Why do they expect houses to be different from other investments?

10

One wonder just how long Democrats can maintain the disbelief that this guy is a fucking liar. A fucking communist liar.

For a good many of them, the Commiecrat wing of the party, that's their joy.

11 By the way, how are they going to determine who gets "helped out" from their mortgage? If their monthly mortgage payment is abover a certain percent of take home pay? Up to a certain dollar limit? Only in certain areas? Yes? No? Maybe? WTF????

12 One of these days, I'd like to see their super-genius plan they keep going on about.

13 Sparky,

Please don't call him as dumb as a bag of hammers.

I said that once in my garage.  Sounds of sharp protest started coming from my tool chest.  I had to apologize.

14 I got my tax statement yesterday and my house value plummeted 100 thousand dollars between 08-09. Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Lets give more people houses who cant afford them maybe my shit can go down another hundred grand by 2010.

15

And, of course, Obama didn't say a word about investigating and prosecuting the fraudsters at the banks, clawing back all their "retention bonuses" and "awards," replacing the management of the zombie banks, or any punitive measures of any kind against the crooks at the financial institutions (Citi, Merrill, BAC, Morgan Stanley, Lehman, etc. etc.) that took the world's economy down the tubes. (Also the government should prosecute anyone who lied on their mortgage applications - a felony - and penalize them too.)

Instead, the government will just keep throwing (taxpayer) money at these crooks hoping that somehow the economy magically turns around. Why would anyone think that the people who got us into this mess are the ones that will lead us to new prosperity?

The markets will contimue to crater until people regain confidence - and that isn't going to happen until the the financial institutions are cleaned up, the corruption rooted out, and the crooks removed. (Except that won't happen because the crooks are buddies with the Feds/Treasury and they give bazillions of dollars in campaign contributions - D.C. has been bought and paid for.)

I agree with Paul Krugman's thought:

I just don’t get it. And my sinking feeling that the administration plan is to rearrange the deck chairs and hope the iceberg melts just keeps getting stronger.

16

It doesn't pay to play by the rules anymore.

I'm nauseated by this.

17 So, there are people out there who still correlate Obama's words to his actions?  BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!

18 HEY! You forgot to mention ILLEGAL ALIENS! We are paying lawless barbarian invaders (my thanx to El Presidente Jorge and Juan Amnesty McVain, among others) from our own empty pockets to take over our country. I live in what is presently mis-named "New" Mexico...it is not. It is a Mexican Narco-terrorist State satelite. We are SO BETRAYED! The fat lady is warming up her vocal cords...

19 Has anyone noticed that Bernanke is contradicting everything Obama said last night in his testimony this morning.  One of them is speaking with forked tongue.

20 Didn't some Democrat once say:

"Ask not what you can do for your country, rather ask what can your country do for you!"    ...............   or something along those lines...................

21 Technical question about the mortgage bailout - are they addressing folks with jumbo loans at all? Because most of the defaulters in California have jumbo loans..you cannot afford a house here otherwise and apparently, renting was not an option for these folks (I'm being sarcastic).

22 Victor Davis Hanson now has a good article on the workability of bailing out mortgage holders, and Obama's plans in general.

23

One of O’Vomit’s senior advisors was on CNBC being interviewed on the WH lawn concerning the housing bill. His response was that they were going to help those people who were in trouble with their mortgage “through no fault of their own”. When pressed by the reporter that these people purchased houses with no money down and interest only loans and still couldn’t make the payments and how was that no fault of their won. His response was it wasn’t their fault the market went down 25%.

 

So we see the official language now. “Its not their fault” no matter what they did, it’s Bush’s fault.

24

HEY! You forgot to mention ILLEGAL ALIENS! We are paying lawless barbarian invaders (my thanx to El Presidente Jorge and Juan Amnesty McVain, among others) from our own empty pockets to take over our country.

One day, soomeone will make the connection between the unpopularity of President Bush and this issue. It may be too late by then. And of course, the Wall Street Journal will never admit it.

25 #11
This is exactly why the very notion of a mortgage bailout only for the "responsible" was infuriatingly dishonest from the outset. It makes me spit nails. Guess what... everyone's idea of who was responsible enough to deserve money taken by force from other people's pockets, is different. The only certain thing is everyone thinks "I'm deserving, but my neighbor isn't."

If I deserve your money in my pocket because my job salary didn't rise to match the reset on my mortgage, is that my fault? Maybe my boss promised me that, but didn't follow through. So was I responsible, taking my boss's word, or living beyond my means? Even if I had a small mortgage, I could have lost my job and would still be stuck.

Maybe I saw housing prices rise without fail for years, and our two bedroom bungalow can't hold our three-child family, with granny living here too. Six under one roof. So I bought an expensive house that had five bedrooms but I was able to afford it with a low starting rate loan. I planned to refinance it in a year or two when the house was worth 50% more. But that didn't happen... yet I don't remember people being scolded for using your home as an investment. In fact all my life I was told your home was your biggest investment, by conservatives and libs alike. Was I a "flipper" or was I investing in an appreciating asset? Do you expect us to live in a two bedroom house, all six of us?

Or maybe I refinanced my home, nearly paid off, to send my kid to an Ivy League school to learn some Constitutional law and community organizing. I know the sacred President demands that everyone get at least one year of post high school education. But now, my house is worth less than I owe on it. I even got a fixed rate 2nd to finance my kid's education. But if we have to relocate or sell the house, we're stuck... and our job is leaving California because it's so expensive here to do business. Am I responsible or am I begging for a handout? Did you expect me to find the cheapest school out there? Would you do that to your kid?

Anyone can spin scenarios like this endlessly. Who exactly is a flipper? Someone who holds a house for a month? Six months? Nine? What if I sold in three months but give you an excuse like "I lost my job"? Will that fly? Why should it when you can argue "You shouldn't have bought a house you might easily lose without your job"? Why shouldn't it when you can argue "You can't buy any house ever if you always have to be working to pay for it... unemployment happens"?

The black, vile, utter mendacity of proposing to rob Peter to pay Paul, only if Paul was "responsible," makes me sick to my stomach. This has become a society of thieves.

26 Sheila Bair is full of it. Everyone who applies for a workout should be required to submit full docs before being granted a loan mod. The mortgage lenders can handle the load, and if they need to reemploy auditors to verify compliance, that's jobs re-created, no?

I want to buy a retirement home and the prices still need to come down to match what my investments have collapsed into. No bailouts for undeserving cheats and deadbeats, then maybe the market will find its natural level and things can get back to normal (by which I mean full doc mortgages to credit-worthy borrowers, not ninja loans).

Eliminating housing as a source of imputed wealth rather than a place to live and raise a family would go a long way to restoring sanity to the financial system.

27 Related - did anyone read Wired magazines article about David X. Li and how the formula he came up with contributed to this mess.

28 Let me put it another way. If we accept the premise that Peter should be robbed to pay for the "good" Paul, then the matter devolves into the following calculation that I and others will make, I guarantee it.

Just how irresponsible can I be and still get away with it? That is, how far can I go and still expect my neighbors to be forced to pay for my misadventures, mistakes, ill luck and avarice?

I don't want to live in a society so organized. But that's where we are headed, if we aren't there already.

29 Stupid question: If your house loses 25% of its value, how does that have any effect on your ability to make your mortage payment?

30 If your house loses 25% of its value,

You see, that is sufficient. It makes me feel cheated, and besides, I was promised a unicorn and free skittles. I was robbed!

31 Hey you're getting caught up in the details.  Zero is only interested in flowery over-the-top grandiose speeches.  It's not like he's actually planning on doing anything about the problems!  That's for somebody else to work out.

32 Here's another dimension of the rank dishonesty of Obastard's "mortgage bailout." Even if it were a good idea, it remains utterly insufficient. It won't benefit all the Obots who voted for the dick mitten... in the Bay Area.

The San Francisco Chronicle. ” More than 90 percent of Bay Area mortgage holders cannot qualify for the low-cost refinances included in President Obama’s housing rescue package, according to an analysis of loan data from Zillow. That is the smallest percentage of people eligible for the refinances anywhere in the country, Zillow said.”

“‘Around here, most of the market just doesn’t qualify; it’s going to bypass us,’ said James Wilcox, a professor of finance at the Haas School of Business at UC Berkeley.”

33

Related - did anyone read Wired magazines article about David X. Li and how the formula he came up with contributed to this mess.

Very interesting. The similarities to the "science" of climate modeling shouldn't be lost on anyone, and the stakes are just as big, if not bigger.

Also, this could serve as exhibit A for the argument Nassim Taleb makes in The Black Swan that although the world might look Gaussian when viewed through a porthole, it really isn't. And when it decides to send us a reminder, the impact tends to be enormous.

34 Ok, my anecdotal story:

I have a friend who is an underwriter for a local S&L.  Back when the housing prices were done booming but before the bubble burst I asked her how these people had gotten loans.  Her response was that as long as they showed proof of employment (payroll stubs), proof of paying taxes (1040s) and proof of the value of the house (appraiser's statement) the loan would go through.  No more looking at house debt ratios, no looking at overall debt ratios, no looking at credit history.  Whether this was driven by an NGO like ACORN, belief in never ending housing appreciation, or credit swaps she didn't know.

Now I am not against risk taking; that's Capitalism 101.  But let's not fool ourselves into thinking that all speculation was only on one (the borrower) side.  Leave that fantasy for the Liberals and their thoughts towards the lenders.

DISCLOSURE:  I am currently under water (used to be called upside down back in the day).  All our fault.  We are struggling but surviving.

35 Oh, and the Emperor has no clothes, and he has a little dick too!

36 12 One of these days, I'd like to see their super-genius plan they keep going on about.

Unfortunately, the guy who wrote the plan got the job after finishing up a stint as a scriptwriter for Battlestar Galactica.

37 Stupid question: If your house loses 25% of its value, how does that have any effect on your ability to make your mortage payment?

It doesn't. The situations tend to be somewhat as George Orwell describes. You buy a house that you can't really afford, but you managed to get a loan that has a low interest rate for the first couple of years, and a reverse amortization (that is, the interest on your loan is adding up faster than you're paying it off). So you bought a house for, say, $400,000, and now two years later, you still owe $400,000 on it, but your interest rate is going to up such that you won't be able to afford your payment.

Back when you bought the house, you were told, "no problem, you can just refinance it before the rate goes up." But now the house is only worth $300,000, so you can't refinance it, and even if you sell it, you still owe the bank $100,000.

So basically, you're screwed. Now imagine that in the midst of all this, you lose your job.

38 One of these days, I'd like to see their super-genius plan they keep going on about.

It's like the Eleusinian Mysteries. The Uninitiated are unworthy to see such divine arcana. Remember, this is a sacred, Olympian administration, not for the mere mortal to criticize.

39

Whether this was driven by an NGO like ACORN, belief in never ending housing appreciation, or credit swaps she didn't know.

 

That kind of stuff was due to changes in CRA and the regulations implementing CRA. It had gotten to the point to where the regulation actually stated that welfare payments must be included as income. The “record keeping” portion of CRA along with the admonishment that they must make loans to poor inner city communities is what enabled ACORN to sue. Having juries comprised of nothing but inner city residents allowed them to collect.

 

Between the Democraps in Congress, the hoodlums at ACORN, and the juries from the inner city the banks never had a chance. That is why I say all these bank bailouts are happening. It is basically hush money to keep them quite while the Bwarney Fwanks blame Bush and deregulation.  

40

"The One" will say anything, because he has for the last two years. 

Why, pray tell, do you think he is going to start telling the truth now?

Are you smoking that "Hope and Change" crack?

Kemp

41 #33
Wow. Very interesting... never heard of "The Black Swan" before. Looking around a bit, I found this comment upon one of Taleb's propositions:

Comfortably ensconced in the world of Extremistan, financial markets are the most democratic playing field in the world. It allows slick-talking, high school drop outs to triumph over Harvard MBAs. Contrast this with the world of sports. Just because you can pick up a golf club doesn't give you the right to step on the golf course against Tiger Woods. Yet in the financial markets, your bets are placed right alongside those of Warren Buffet and George Soros. And here's what's amazing: on any day, you can actually do better than the greatest investment masters ever.

This is what the Left cannot ever accept: That large parts of the world, if not all of it, run on an unpredictable basis, with spontaneous orders rising and falling. And no army of think tanks, breakout groups, central planners or Philosopher-Kings can steer it by fiat or "good government." They hate the fact that the world is not subject to arbitrary command, that you cannot regiment society to regulate its every behavior to a glorious objective.

They prefer to believe in unicorns.

42

So basically, you're screwed. Now imagine that in the midst of all this, you lose your job.

I imagine I'd lose my home, suck it up like an adult, and move my shit into an apartment.  Or live under a bridge.  Either way, I'd shut my mouth and fucking deal with it without expecting, much less demanding, help from anyone.

What do I win?

43

37

Back when you bought the house, you were told, "no problem, you can just refinance it before the rate goes up." But now the house is only worth $300,000, so you can't refinance it, and even if you sell it, you still owe the bank $100,000.

In other words, you speculated.

44 Housing crisis my ass.  Houses have been over valued for years and were never worth the ridiculous amount of money buyers paid for them.

That's my take on this, too. The over-valuing of the housing market has been going on for decades, and now the reality rake has been catapulted from its hiding place in the grass and has whacked the entire country in the face.

45 You bought a house for $400,000 with a fixed 30 year mortgage in year X.  You owe $350,000 in year X+3, but the housing market has declined. You lose your job, and get a job elsewhere.  You have to sell your house, but it will only fetch $300,000 in the current market, so you still owe the bank $50,000.  Therefore you speculated, thinking that your debt would not exceed the house's value at the point you decided to sell.

See?  Speculation is in the eye of the beholder.  If the gubmint hadn't spent the last fifteen years juicing the housing market, the "speculators" would never have driven the market as high as they did.

Please, please watch Peter Wallison's address at Reason on the housing disaster.  It's a real education.

46

There was a LOT of talk on shows like Neil Cavuto’s about the “housing bubble” long before it exploded. If you looked at housing prices before the bubble burst it should have been obvious that something was wrong. Even now houses in CA are still overpriced.

 

I checked on my old neighborhood in Castro Valley, CA. That neighborhood was largely built in the 50s and has smaller houses on small lots (compared to here). Today they are selling for over $500/sq ft. In 1950s when they were built they were in the teens. In the late 60s the house I was living in sold for 20K. Today it would go for over $700,000. That is INSANE and can not be supported.

 

A lot of smart people saw this and did not buy a house expecting a big crash. If I was in the market for house in CA I still would not buy one. At least, not in the neighborhood where I used to live.

47 The dot com bubble contributed to a lot of the housing bubble in California but even for these high paid gen x'ers who in their right mind would think that the 1100 sq ft house they were looking to buy for 800k would appreciate much more if any.   

48 In case you didn't think things were crazy *enough*:  When the economy eventually recovers (as it would have if they hadn't spent a trillion bucks or two, and probably faster), the Dem/Lib/Socialists/MSM will all fall over themselves praising and thanking His Oneness for saving the economy with his brilliance.

Any evidence that the Porkulus bill may have made things worse instead of better will be studiously ignored.

And you can take that to the bank.  

With Socialists (=redistributionists) running both Congress and the presidency, it clearly no longer makes sense to play by the rules. 

Obie and the Demoncrat-ruled congress have unleashed the whirlwind.  Whether due to plan or stupidity won't make much difference to the predictable result.

49

Barry a liar? The devil you say.

Feb. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Washington’s respite from congressional pet projects known as earmarks appears to be over.

President Barack Obama, who insisted on keeping his economic stimulus package free of money for lawmakers’ projects, may soon be faced with a bill stuffed with thousands of them.

The U.S. House plans today to approve a $410 billion spending bill providing $7.7 billion for more than 8,500 special projects, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington- based group that tracks earmarks. Critics who cheered Obama’s push to keep the stimulus plan free of the spending complain he isn’t following up with a similar effort now.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs declined earlier this week to comment on the projects, saying he hadn’t had a chance to confer with Obama on the issue. He didn’t respond to e-mails yesterday and today requesting comment.

50 In other words, you speculated.

More accurately, someone else speculated and you believed it. Me, I tend to go into large transactions with a worst-case-scenario mentality, but I guess not everyone does.

51 Instead of throwing money at it, why not give a tax credit to lenders who refinance bad loans to terms that allow people to keep up the payments?  Set benchmarks at various intervals.  For every loan that is current, the lender can take a percentage of that loan as a credit.  It helps the lenders without a huge infusion of government cash and it makes them more responsible with their lending since the loan has to be current for them to get the credit.

52

I love president 666.  He says the banking regulations were gutted.  Let's see who pushed NINJA loans?  Who pushed the gutting of regulations in the Clinton cabinet?

 

Our Kenyan president is truly gifted and should have his own show in Vegas.  I've never seen anyone talk out of both sides of his mouth so easily or sell as much snakeoil.

By the way did anyone notice he is a smirking chimp?

 

 

 

53 29 Stupid question: If your house loses 25% of its value, how does that have any effect on your ability to make your mortage payment?

As others noted, it doesn't. My situation is a bought a $360k condo in San Diego, with zero down.  I was completely honest on my loan application, and got a loan that I can afford.  My house is now worth $169k (actually less, since the identical home has been on the market at that price with no buyers).  But I can still afford my mortgage.

Obama's plan won't help me at all, or anyone else in San Diego, because we are so far upside down.  So my solution is just to walk away from the home, or (if I'm lucky) get the bank to split the baby and reduce the mortgage principle to something between it's current amount and the actual market value.  The bank loses money, and I lose my credit score.  No government involvement, and the problem is solved.  Why is this a big deal? People need to suck it up and file bankruptcy if they are truly in dire straits.  I don't expect a handout, and neither should they.

54 Gee,  I wish I had a convicted felon to help me buy my house, then I wouldn't need any help with my mortgage.

55 Prices cannot be sustained until they are back in line with incomes.  If you control for income values, home values have been remarkable constant for the past 150 years, with only minor bubble fluctuations.  It was not until about 2000 that things got out of whack.  Lookie here:

http://tinyurl.com/bffrwo

That says it all. Everyone should look at it.  No amount of Obamamoney can stop it.  House values must return to 2000 levels, and that is a GOOD thing.

56 "If the administration has come up with a way to ensure money only goes to those who got in honest trouble, it hasn't said so."

Are the old loan applications still on file someplace?
Howzabout comparing the new aid applications to the old mortgage applications?
If the stated incomes are different, by more than (pick a number)%, or if the stated sources of income don't check out, then bingo, application denied, plus could you please step over here to talk to Detective Fraudsquad?
Also, isn't the "redefault rate" for bailed-out mortgage deadbeats running at something like 37%?  Why does there even need to BE such a word as "redefault" anyway?  Have we not ALREADY bailed out these house-flippers and speculators and liar's-loan alt-A scumbags enough?

57 Markytom @ 15 "... investigating and prosecuting the fraudsters at the banks, clawing back all their "retention bonuses" and "awards," replacing the management of the zombie banks, or any punitive measures of any kind against the crooks at the financial institutions (Citi, Merrill, BAC, Morgan Stanley, Lehman, etc. etc.) that took the world's economy down the tubes."

Yeah those eeeeevil bankers, and their eeeeevil greeeed, that's the problem.

"I agree with Paul Krugman's thought:"

Well of course you do.

The Obvious @ 19 "Has anyone noticed that Bernanke is contradicting everything Obama said last night in his testimony this morning.  At minimum, One of them is speaking with forked tongue."

Stoopy fix up good, no?

Vic @ 39 "Between the Democraps in Congress, the hoodlums at ACORN, and the juries from the inner city the banks never had a chance."

Tut tut, Vic, tut tut!  You're not with the program!  Repeat after me: "greedy bankers and wallstreet fatcats, greedy bankers and wallstreet fatcats, greedy bankers and wallstreet fatcats, greedy bankers and wallstreet fatcats, " and another thing: Stop THINKING so much!  Honestly!  People like you cause all the trouble in the world!

58

Our Kenyan president is truly gifted and should have his own show in Vegas.  I've never seen anyone talk out of both sides of his mouth so easily or sell as much snakeoil.

Nah, I tried that shit. Even juggled. Didn't help me.

59

"I agree with Paul Krugman's thought:"

Yeah, that isn't a place you want to be. Probably means you're off your meds and your diaper is full.

 

60

If you really want to see an example of one of those poor unfortunates who lost their home through no fault of their own go over to MM's site and read about this one deadbeat that the ACORN thugs are trying to support.

ACORN is a criminal interprise and we are financing it.

61 Also, from the government POV, what incentive is there to let housing prices fall to their natural, much lower levels from their current ones? Homeowners pay nice chunks of money every year based on the value of that inflated home price. The percentage provides higher yields to the government, naturally, if the base valuation increases. Local/State government looks at plummeting property values and goes into a panic as their base tax source takes a huge hit.

Government loves rising home prices and will fight to keep them there even at the hidden cost of spending future generation monies.

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63 "I think it's just simply impractical to try to do a forensic analysis of each and every one of these delinquent loans," Sheila Bair told National Public Radio.

I actually heard this twat make this comment. I almost fell out of my chair. Impractical? Why?

There's a lot of fucking money involved here. Why the fuck can't they analyze each and every one of these delinquent loans.

Not pouring good money after bad would be a wise investment.

They can't because they don't want to. And they don't want to for the same reasons they didn't want to ensure that these were sound loans in the first place.

Fuckers!

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65 Nutmegory @ 63 "Impractical? Why? "

Because it would be impractical for them to cannibalize their own deadbeat voter base.  As you pretty much pointed out.

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