1 Yum, WankerBrau!

2 Better the kittehz be drunk than whacked out on catnip. If you don't talk to your kittehz about catnip, who will?

3

"a $49.61 tax on each barrel of beer produced by Oregon brewers.”

So, what do they have against Oregon brewers?  I mean, I don't think I've ever actually drunk any beer from Oregon, but it must really suck, if they want to punish them like that.  Olympia sucks, but it's from Washington.  It's the water, and a lot more, right?  Like $49.61 a barrel more.  And what's with $49.61?  Did someone suggest $50, and they're all like, "No way, that would be totally unfair.  It might kill the Oregon microbrew industry.  $0.39 less?  Now you're talking."

4 it'd be a long cold day before I drank beer from a phallus topped keg.

5 notropis, the article said 1900% increase, so I figure the legislators just said 'Hey let's have 20 times the current beer tax.'  Of course there's nothing special about 20, beyond that it's a big enough number to get noticed (see also TARP).

Smokers already get screwed, so why not drinkers?  Next someone will want to tax pron...

6 2 Kittehz already high on 'nip (aka Kitty Prozac) for the night. No use talking to them, but taking some embarrassing photos might larn 'em once they sober up.

7 There's too much head on that glass.

8 What's the comparable WA, CA, and ID taxation regime?  Might be a good time to own some brewery-sized commercial buildings just over the line in one of those states.

9 Your wish is Patterson's command...

http://tinyurl.com/db2tf6

The taxation of internet porn is cuming....

10

The goofy thing about this is that it's a production tax, rather than an excise tax.  If you want to punish drinkers, why not slap it onto all beer sales?  (Like states do with tobacco taxes.)  This will only make people switch to beer produced in other states.  (Because other states do, in fact, produce beer.)  It's like your solution to a budget crisis is to deliberately drive one of your state's thriving businesses into bankruptcy.

11 I know 5 elceted officals in Oregon who wont get re elected.

12 Hmm. I really like Rogue but it's already >$6 per 22oz. If Rogue cost more than the North Coast Brewings Ultra series what would you drink?

13 I think Racer 5, Alpine Pure Hoppiness and Ballast Point Scullpin are the best 

14

9 Your wish is Patterson's command...

We covered that on the Feb 12th edition of overnight thread. Notropis provided extensive personal background info. on how porn had destroyed his life. He still suffers from extreme carpal tunnel syndrome in his right hand, so best not to bring this up anymore. Touchy subject and all.

15 widmer hefeweizen is real good, even the foo-foo raspberry version. i guess my dream of working for nike, being a bike nazi and living off of copper river salmon and widmer's raspberry hefeweizen...down the drain.

16

'preciate it, genghis.

Even morons have feelings, you know (well, at least in my left hand....)

17 What happens when they tax the production of Val-U-Rite? Do we start making our own from potato peelings and hobo blood?

18 The crazy thing is that Oregon, which is not exactly overflowing with exports that aren't wood, actually has a decently thriving microbrewery industry. The jackasses proposing this tax are all Portlanders (read: socialist) and one jerk from Springfield (abuts up to Eugene, the southern pole of Valley insanity). This is a case of economically ignorant socialists trying to squeeze "the rich" by making this a production rather than a consumption tax without realizing that a) the price WILL be passed on to the consumer and b) this will quite probably kill the Oregon microbrewery industry. Alcohol consumption is ALREADY down 10%, and by cranking the price through this outrageous tax, they are writing the death sentence of the industry.

The beer drinkers of Oregon (pretty much every man, woman and child, from what I can tell) had best pray that cooler heads prevail, or this will likely kill most if not all of the smaller independent brewers in the state, and all of the jobs they provide.

It's not like our unemployment rate isn't HIGHER than the national or anything!

19 #13 Hoppy, my sister thinks Double Bastard from Stone is the tops. Ballast Point Scullpin sounds interesting. Ill have to hunt Ballast Point out next time I am in SD.

20 16

'preciate it, genghis.

Even morons have feelings, you know (well, at least in my left hand....)

Oh, no problem at all. Sometimes you have to go to the left hand (if you're a righty). I call mine "my mistress."

21 Politicians have lost all fear of the tar and the feathers. They all need a hot fluffy lesson in humility.

22 Watch for them to legalize hookers, so they can tax that industry.

23 #18 Yeah the politicians in Oregon are dip shits but that will just lead to the people closing out or hopping the border to Washington (I thought they were higher ranking on the dip list), CA or Idaho. Something interesting is that the American west coast is making big winners. Oh yeah, I think Alaska brewery might be a cost effective buy closest to Bud prices for an international medalist. Alaska brewery doesn't make shockers but they don't make plain beers so all can enjoy.

24 #20 I am here with my ladies Palmela and Jackie.

25

"I am here with my ladies Palmela and Jackie"

I hate to even ask this, but what are you typing with?

26 #18

No one is going back to California. Hell, half of us came FROM there! Washington and Alaska are bigger possibilities, but if there is an exodus from the Pacific Northwest, I think it will be towards Montana, the Dakotas, Idaho etc.

Funny thing is, the countryside is STAUNCHLY conservative, with all the idiot liberals being entrenched in Portland and Eugene

27 Er, that was to respond to #23, not to myself. Whoops

28 Deschutes Brewery

http://tinyurl.com/cz3nwk

29 Don't go to Kansas. They aren't giving out tax refund checks.

30 #22 They are already doing that. Remember the woman who claimed to be selling her virginity to make some dough and stick it to the man. I didn't see any common paper call her a prostitute. They are already being referred as sex workers. Personally, I couldn't give a rats ass about that, that's just fine to me. Whats scary is when the govt finds it can make revenue off of vice they may to motion to support the expansion. We've got social acid being thrown on families. Divorce take a portion of Spouse As check give a portion to spouse B put the child in subsidized childcare. Expand schools enforce attendance. Send the parent to higher Ed so they can get a govt job. Raise revenue sources, taxes, penalties, etc. To cover the aforementioned and expansion.

31
Liquor and mixed drinks for the win.

32 Ok, so I am so fucking sick. I have no fucking idea what day it is. I have been out of it these past two days. Its like I have been on a weekend bender. Fuck me, colds suck.

33 #26 You are right about CA I think Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Arizona, Utah is where the action is at. I have talked with many friends and coworkers and those are the ones coming up again and again. But mind you about half of these folks have softie lib brain pans so they may end up on a bus to east LA. But I love the radio adverts "Come to (Nevada|Arizona) we got lower taxes, trade routes and cheaper electricity!"

34 #25 Hercules can only handle roughly 10wpm with a high error rate but I think we got the spell check under control.

35 Oregon is considered one of the world's most innovative beer producing regions, close to Belgium.

Taxing production instead of sale of beer is an incredibly stupid idea, but leftists view business as a cow to be milked and not the horse that pulls the entire cart (paraphrasing Churchill.)

Seriously, I am moving back to California for a few years, but then its on to another state. Idaho sounds nice.

36 32 Just to keep it on topic you should have a ginger ale...

I think that joke should have been followed with waka waka waka.

37 Most of the folks talking about Idaho are speaking along the lines of retiring or just cashing out, skipping state and possibly finding a humbler vocation. I like UT/AZ because I have got some connections and I know they have technical initiatives out there.

38 These motherfucking sons of whores may have just signed their own political death warrant.  The inhabitants of the People's Republic of Portland may be idiot socialists, but they love their microbreweries, of which there are many fine ones.  If there is anything that can bring left and right in Oregon together, it will be burying these folks.

39

Well it seems that the socialists in Oregon have discovered “sin” to be taxed. Don’t worry, the folks here in the South discovered that a long dam time ago. We here in SC, at last check, at the 2^nd highest taxes on beer in the country. Believe it or not, Alaska had the highest. Beer and liquor in the South is taxed at massive amounts and if you want to open on Sunday and sell alcohol it is even worse. Your license will cost you $200 per Sunday and must be applied for in advance.

40 Has anyone considered that the prez might actually be spending this weekend reading the bill and that maybe he might toss it right back at them?

41 "Has anyone considered that the prez might actually be spending this weekend reading the bill and that maybe he might toss it right back at them?"

Haaah! That's freaking hilarious. Prez .... reading .... bill .... Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

42 "32 Ok, so I am so fucking sick. I have no fucking idea what day it is. I have been out of it these past two days. Its like I have been on a weekend bender. Fuck me, colds suck.

Posted by: Ginger at February 17, 2009 02:03 AM (QyPcq"

ooo so sorry, hope you feel better real soon.

43

For those of you who are interested HERE is the rate of tax on beer by State. As you can see, currently Oregon is lower than the national medium tax.

 

Epic Fail for a socialist politician.

44
Vic, the South's relationship with alcohol has always struck me as a little strange. But the proposed Oregon tax is doubly stupid: it taxes production, but not consumption, so all it will do is kill the Oregon microbreweries while drinkers switch to out-of-state brews. So, all it will do is kill local industry, while raising practically no revenue at all: a two-fer so stupid, you'd think Obama Himself thought it up.

45

Yep, it is dumb to tax production but hey, we're talking stupid politician here. As far as the South's releationship with sin taxes it is easy to understand once you realize that the churches run the South and always have.

There is no separation here.

46 Agree with ya Militant Bibliophile. Whole thing is silly. What is left in PDX besides microbrews? The rose parade? Perhaps they're thinking its a good tax they can slip past the public and let the brewers take the heat for the price increases. Lets drive even more companies out of Oregon... sigh.

47 Surely those who voted for Hope and Change will want to do their patriotic duty and support all Democratic tax revenue stimuli right?  

48

In defense of Oregon, let's keep in mind that they have the most lax strip club laws in the country. As a result, the Portland area also has the highest concentration of strip clubs in the country. Draw your own conclusions.

However, Oregon also has the most bizarre law I've ever encountered. You are not allowed to pump your own gas at any fillin' station (as Grandpa used to call them). It must be pumped by an attendant, and woe to the out-of-stater passing through, just starting to fill up his or her vehicle...they will come and yank it physically out of your hands.

Maybe OregonMuse can 'splain why. Some kinda' protection racket that managed to get codified into state law I guess.

49

Some of you earlier were speculating about good low tax places to move to. Since I retired I also have been looking around because, contrary to the propaganda, the South and in particular SC, is NOT a low tax State(s) when you take everything into consideration. 

 

For example, the State passed a law about 10 or 15 years ago that allows local areas to apply their own rates of sales tax. The local socialists went wild. The sales tax in my area now is 10% on restaurant/fast food and 8% on everything else. Income tax is 7% and property tax is about medium, but is growing at an exponential rate and this was after “reform” that added to the sales tax. Property taxes on autos and boats is the highest in the country. I am currently paying ~ $75/yr for a 13 year old 2 wheel drive F-150. When I retired I was looking at getting a boat but after investigating the taxes I gave up on it.

 

What I have found is that Wyoming appears to be one of the lowest tax States in the country. I have been working on my wife for this but she is dead set against it because during the winter it gets COLD there. I have been looking at the Worland area.

50

Genghis

 

Sounds to me like the service station lobby has unionized there.

51 No, it's because gas is a "hazardous substance" and you need a special permit to handle it. At least, that's what the environmentalists convinced the state of, so you have to be specially trained to pump gas in Oregon.

52

"hazardous substance"

 

Yes, it is but I am sure that there is more to it than that that the pols are saying.

 

They have excuses for all the cemetery and funeral laws as well but the real reason in the “lobby”.

 

You do not get bizarre laws like that from logical reasons.

53 It was also a way to increase the pay for gas attendants, and make more paperwork and red tape for everyone. And a way to make fun of tourists.

54 I usually try to have a little fun with the attendants by pulling out a dry Zippo with no flint, doing a couple of light flicks on it, then asking if they could fill it up as well. They tend to go away fairly quickly.

55

I once pulled up to a gas station here to fill up and there was a dumb SOB filling a plastic jug with it held up to his face so he could see it better. He was smoking away as happy as a turd in a toilet. I just kept on going.  I am sure that he eventually got what always comes to the “Darwin Award” participants.

 

Going down or some breakfast. Back later folks.

56

48

 

they have that law in New Jersey too

57

Back

 

Found out some additional info about the two subs that collided. Fox says they were both missile boats on active patrol. Since the French are not part of NATO they do not coordinate ocean sector allocation and they were both operating in the same area. Neither sub detected the other. It wasn’t a “crazy ivan”.  

58 The heck with a Boston Tea Party, how about an Oregon Beer Party!

59

From News Busters

 

The Snouted One is pushing the FCC for application of the “unFairness Doctrine” to the internet in order to halt conservative voices.

 

Linky thingy but be warned; not for the weak of stomach. Horrid pictures of pig-snouted goomers contained in the link.

News Busters

60

OREGON BEER PARTY?????

 

That would imply that we would throw kegs of beer over the side to keep them from being consumed!!!!

 

Now that is a real sin. No self-respecting moron would ever do that.

 

How about a Portland Politician Party where you attach anvils and throw politicians over the side instead.

61
20 16..
Bitch!
21>> Politicians have lost all fear of the tar and the feathers. They all need a hot fluffy lesson in humility.
..and the comfy chair.

62 We need some more layers and layers of editors, I see. This place is going to hell in a handbasket, and not because of the classical reasons like hobo-killin', willy-wankin, and gross inebriation.

Where's the "...But Mostly Beer. And Taxes." in the headline? Sheesh. This place used to have standards -- that was another place and another time, but mostly another time.

See what I did there? Not so hard.


As per this:

Brown Line: "So, all it will do is kill local industry, while raising practically no revenue at all: a two-fer so stupid, you'd think Obama Himself thought it up."

It must be said again. It's almost as if Obama has no executive experience at all.

63

I have said this many times but it is worth repeating. In these liberal States like Oregon, CA, etc every time there is a business cycle slow down the socialists start screaming about shortfalls in revenue and the need to raise taxes. So just about every 5 to 7 years they have massive tax hikes due to economic times. A year later after recovery they start having boom times. Do they return taxes to the levels that they were previously at??? Of course not, they increase spending so that they next time business slows they can raise taxes again.

 

The other trick they do is when someone finally does get their back up about raising taxes continuously they start with the doomsday scenarios. Look at CA right now.  They adjourned yesterday night with still no budget because one more Republican vote is needed for tax increases and they didn’t get it. Arnold is supposed to send out 10K pink slips today which in CA means nothing. But what have they done to cut back?

 

They have held up sending out tax refunds (an illegal tax increase) and they have stopped infrastructure work. Did they stop the trillions of dollars being spent on socialist projects? Did they stop the waste pork projects like that law school we talked about yesterday and the 3 years of FREE tuition? Of course not. They think if they stop road repair people will get mad and demand tax increases.

 

And the really SAD thing is that a lot of dumb son-of-a-bitches do fall for that because the same worthless cocksuckers who do this keep getting re-elected every year.

64 The tax will affect all beer sold in Oregon, not just beer bottled or brewed there.  This story has been a hot topic on brewing enthusiast message boards since last weekend. 

This is what people get when their retarded politicians believe they have a mandate from the people. Oregonians took a hard turn to the left in recent years. If you vote for people who want to control every aspect of your life, you shouldn't be surprised when they start trying to do so.  Pay more attention next time you go to the polls, that's the only advice I have.

65 Ironically, Rogue Ales of Oregon has embraced a vaguely communist working man marketing scheme, complete with a Red Star. 

66 Guess politicians don't drink beer, they probably drink wine, it's so the "thing to do".

67 The molasses act 1733 ended up taxing rum and pissed the colonists off something fierce. John Adams is quoted as saying that the rum tax, as it where, probably did more to sow the seeds of revolution than the tea tax.

Lesson--don't mess with our booze, else you find yourself in a heap of trouble.

68 I'm surprised they aren't taxing wine similarly.

69 65 Ironically, Rogue Ales of Oregon has embraced a vaguely communist working man marketing scheme, complete with a Red Star.

I know, and it kills me every time I pop open an extra tasty Mocha Porter, or any of the beers. Good stuff, even from moonbats.

But in the craft brew movement the commies are almost everywhere.

70 Oregonians have been complaining about Commiefornians moving there, mostly to retire, for years. Now you know why.

71 Uh...in regards to picture, does the gal mannequin dispense beer also?

I really wanna know.

72 69

But in the craft brew movement the commies are almost everywhere.

Yeah, I am involved in  homebrewing and everyone else involved seems to be a commie or a loon.  I don't know what that says about me, I do it to avoid taxes and the high price of imports.

73

Let's see--California, Vermont, New York, Massachusetts, Illinois, West Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, and now Oregon.

The list of places where I am never going to live keeps growing.

74 21 Politicians have lost all fear of the tar and the feathers. They all need a hot fluffy lesson in humility.

Posted by: right at February 17, 2009 01:35 AM (EquV1)

Amen.

75 Rogue Ales of Oregon has embraced a vaguely communist working man marketing scheme, complete with a Red Star.

The "Socialist Realist" worker design on the bottles next to the Red Star kept me from buying some in the airport to bring home a couple weeks ago. I'm sure they don't care.  But I felt better.

76 They're talking about that in California too. Not as big as Oregon, though. I guess it's a little easier when alcohol sales are a state monopoly, huh?

77 One more time: If you want big revenue, a growing economy, happy people, rainbows and/or unicorns, all you have to do is propose a surtax on legal fees and other lawyerly activity.  That's all.  One of two things will happen: All of the filthy, stinkin' lawyers who populate the legislature will balk immediately and no other tax will go through or...rainbows and unicorns!

It's a win-win.

78 "What's a Henry Winehard?"

79

They're talking about that in California too. Not as big as Oregon, though. I guess it's a little easier when alcohol sales are a state monopoly, huh?

??? Alcohol sales are decidedly not a state monopoly here. You can buy hard liquor in the supermarkets, something I noticed was not permitted in other states I have visited.

They tax *everything* too much here. OR has no sales tax, WA has in income tax, CA has both.

80 The craft brew movement is kinda a contradiction sometimes.  Not all, of course, but a significant fraction of it is made up of lefty loonies, and these loonies are operating under a razor-thin profit margin.  You'll never find a more dedicated group of capitalists than a brewery trying to hang on to it's market share.

I blame sniffing too many fresh hop flowers.

81 Circa what's wrong with West Virginia besides Byrd and Rockefeller we have a blue dog Dem Gov. with a nice budget surplus,low cost of living beautiful countryside minus the whole most roads don't have guard rails,guns (lots of those) if you live close to the Ky border cheap smokes and whiskey plenty of coal for heat and lights,all in all not to bad a space.

82 Speaking of 'sin taxes', I did a little bit of spreading some HOPE about some of the CHANGE we can expect from the stimulus bill while purchasing some cigarettes yesterday on the local reservation. (It's a filthy habit kid, and I don't want to see you ever pick it up.)

We had a pretty steep hike in state tax rates on cigarettes fairly recently in order to fund health care "for the children of this state".  At first the local tribes were going to raise the price of cigarettes that they sold in smoke shops by the same amount and apply the funds to their own tribal health care organizations. (And boy didn't THAT chap the asses of the nanny goats responsible for crafting this little gem.)  It wasn't too long though before one tribe figured out that if they kept their prices at the pre-tax rate they would gain a significant portion of the neighboring tribe's customers.  Anyhoo, now both local tribes offer cigs without the state tax and so it is worth my (and I assume many others') while to go out of my way and purchase them at one of the smoke shops at the edge of town.

So yesterday I casually mentioned something along the lines of, "Wow, that S-Chip thingee in the stimulus bill is really going to take a bite out of business for you isn't it?"

"What do you mean? What's S-Chip?"  (Ooh Goody!)

" 24 years old and still living at home?!?  That's immature but not a child!"  "How is $50,000 a year POVERTY?"

"Oh, a Federal tax."

"How come I don't know about this?"  (Well, you know how it is, THEY never want the little guy to know what's going on.  But you can read about it in the newspapers, it's right there. I can't belive it myself!)

I may have implied, along the lines of 'fairness' *snerk*, that it probably wasn't our local congress critter's fault for going along with this, her being so young and relatively new to congress and all, it's likely that she has to go along with pretty much anything that Nancy Pelosi from San Francisco says since Nancy is the leader right now and what she says goes.  Hey! There's a good chance that no one from this state even knows it's in such a huge bill.  I mean, I haven't heard anybody bragging about S-Chip or more health care for children lately, have you? (Okay, last statement is a total lie.  I have heard it.  That's exactly the game plan for Reps. to go back to their states and sell this.)

So, no Obama bashing. Just sowing some seeds about some of the practical consequences of the crap sandwich and attaching the names of the actual legislators responsible for this, who don't have the benefit of a cultic following no matter how popular thet may or may not be, where they just might take hold.

Amazing what you can fit into an approximately 7 min. casual interaction.

83 However, Oregon also has the most bizarre law I've ever encountered. You are not allowed to pump your own gas at any fillin' station (as Grandpa used to call them). It must be pumped by an attendant, and woe to the out-of-stater passing through, just starting to fill up his or her vehicle...they will come and yank it physically out of your hands.

This law predates me, and I came up here from California in 1983. I don't think it's a union law since filling station workers aren't unionized. My guess is that somebody probably felt that self-serve gas would result in greater umemployment for all those highly qualified gas station attendants.

Oregon also doesn't have a sales tax. Every time some nimrod proposes one and manages to get it on the ballot, it gets voted down by 70 or 80%. The very idea of a sales tax is absolutely anathema here, and it cuts across party lines.

On the other hand, our state income taxes are for shit...

84 California makes better beer.  Racer 5 is from the Bear Republic, a family I grew up with, and the beer is brewed by a good buddy of mine, not 2 minutes from my house.  Then you've got Boont Amber and Hop Otten IPA from Anderson Valley Brewing Co, just over the hill.  Red Tail Ale is good, just up the road at the Mendocino Brewing Co.  I don't know how widespread the beers of Russian River Brewing Co are, but they make one called Pliny The Elder that kicks ass, very similar to Racer 5.  Lagunitas IPA is great as well.  All of these beers are produced within a half hour's drive of my house.  Finally, my daily bread, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale from Chico.  Hard to beat.

85

They outlawed self serve gasoline as a pathetic attempt to create jobs after the federal government single handedly destroyed Oregons entire economy in the late '70s.

Everytime they try to repeal this law it gets voted down because of "safety" concerns.  After seeing how most of my fellow Oregonians vote, I am glad we don't have self serve here; there are too many Oregonians who are too retarded to pump their own gas.

86 What's not to like about this tax?  Its all good from my POV.

87 I'm forever the capitalist.  I brew my own and I have looked into advanced hobby equipment, as well as entry level commercial brewing machinery.  But yes, many a commercial micro brewer simply wants to earn a living doing what they enjoy, not so much for the profit it can make.

88 I am glad we don't have self serve here; there are too many Oregonians who are too retarded to pump their own gas.

Yeah, most of the idiots around where I live (college professors, community organizers, hippies, etc.) would probably try to stick the nozzle in their ear.

89

Yeah, most of the idiots around where I live (college professors, community organizers, hippies, etc.) would probably try to stick the nozzle in their ear.

Which college?

90 FWIW,  there is no sales tax on food in Wa. either.  So if you *ahem* live close to the Or. border here in Wa. you have the option of not paying taxes on food or purchases of other items. The only things you HAVE TO  pay tax on are large ticket items like autos and boats etc. the state gets their money when you license them.... not that I'd ever avoid taxes by buying things in Or. ya know. Nope, not me.

91

a great way to tank the sales of LOCALLY produced goods.

I do all I can to support the local brewers because I prefer a more hand crafted beer...

but during a tight economy, this will just push less discerning folks to the megabeer houses.

beer is good, cheap beer is better

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90 "FWIW,  there is no sales tax on food in Wa. either.  So if you *ahem* live close to the Or. border here in Wa. you have the option of not paying taxes on food or purchases of other items."

That's not entirely accurate. There's now a tax on any canned goods containing meat, such as chili, and any prepared foods, soft drinks, beer and wine.

Hey, I count beer as a food. It's got protein, carbs, calories and one of the five basic food groups, hops. Unfortunately, policy makers in WA., ie the donks, don't see it that way. Bastards.

BTW, expect future taxes on "junk" foods. It's already been brandied about.  

 

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