Ten Years of Bad Science
THE doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found. Confidential medical documents and interviews with witnesses have established that Andrew Wakefield manipulated patients’ data, which triggered fears that the MMR triple vaccine to protect against measles, mumps and rubella was linked to the condition.Wakefield has been bending the ear of the Congress for ten years now and scaring the bejebus out of parents. To their credit, the CDC and the UK's Department of Health insisted that his research was faulty from the very beginning. Update: Whenever you talk about vaccine scares you get people going on about thimerosal. Just FYI: the MMR jab never contained thimerosal. Never. Ever.
1 Wait, Jenny McCarthy is wrong about this? But......................her boobs.............boobs like that can't be wrong, can they?
Posted by: sears poncho at February 08, 2009 01:15 PM (uj/0b)
Thanks for posting this. I never bought into it, but as a parent anything like this always worries you in the back of your mind.
Keep up the great work you've been doing around here.
Posted by: Silk at February 08, 2009 01:16 PM (kIz/p)
3 No, they cannot be wrong. They're nice cans.
Andrew Wakefield, on the other hand, is a big bag of douche.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at February 08, 2009 01:17 PM (xQ52y)
4 This will have *no effect* on the autism/anti-vax crowd. (note: Michelle Malkin is a bit of a "mother knows best" anti-vax'er)
The problem I have with the Mercury/Thimerosal argument is simple:
Exposure to both was *a hell of a lot* greater back in the day of pushing pools of mercury around the science table with your finger during science class, getting shots that had actual measurable amounts of mercury and/or thimerosal as a baby, and so forth.
Given the claims about heavy metal toxicity and the fears of the danger, there should be a helluva lot more cases of 40-70 year old severely autistic people than there are.
How does incidence go "up" when exposure goes down?
T'is a mystery, wrapped in a conundrum, flavored with bacon.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 08, 2009 01:20 PM (MKFU7)
5 OTOH, CDCP has its own history of misleading research results. Examples: insisting for half a decadethat heterosexual aids was the fastest growing threat to health. Also insisting that proper use of condoms is 99% effective againstSTDs(denying the math that on a per use basis the chances of a single failue is down to 50-50 after70 uses).
Posted by: Pascal at February 08, 2009 01:25 PM (pAYuN)
6 This cockholster needs to be made an example.
He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for fraud if he received any funding for research after falsifying his records and research.
This scumbag has caused guilt and anguish in a parents of autistic children that is nothing short of torture. So, I hope someone sues his ass into poverty.
This politically(think AGW) or personal obsession motivated "research results" have been going on for far too long. Get used to more of it as well as "Chicago Way science" during BO's administration.
Posted by: rinseandspit at February 08, 2009 01:27 PM (oEAm5)
7 to her credit, left-wing blogger Majikthiise was all up in Robert Kennedy's grill about his vaccine-scaremongering.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 08, 2009 01:30 PM (MKFU7)
8 This will have *no effect* on the autism/anti-vax crowd.
You're probably right, but the rest of us can check this out. Scroll down to the section entitled "Events following reductions in vaccination". Surprise surprise, every damn time people stop getting vaccinated it turns out that there's an outbreak.
Being against vaccination is like not believing that your headaches are caused by hitting yourself with a hammer.
Posted by: AndrewR at February 08, 2009 01:30 PM (Hx2mp)
9 Jenny McCarthy's child was vaccinated years after Thimerosal had been removed from all vaccines. Unless you believe the new clean doses were homeopathically tainted by psychic vibrations from the destroyed vaccine stocks, her story only adds to the evidence that vaccines ARE NOT implicated.
Oh, and her pre-surgery face and boobs were much, much lovelier than her current fembot look.
Posted by: Johanna Lapp at February 08, 2009 01:31 PM (xqhoO)
10 I have a son with autism, and the cause is not vaccines and I thought this legislation would probably distract from good science which mostly says there is a genetic component and precursors in the parents (ADD, ADHD, asbergers syndrome, mental illnesses) that can at least at this time be noted but not proven. Thank goodness this will be ditched and doctors can try and pick up the scent again and do some REAL science.
Posted by: andreaSF at February 08, 2009 01:36 PM (Fa6Qq)
11 OT Anyone see this:
Georgian Foreign Minister Grigol Vashadze has accused Russia of sending 27 fighter planes to a former Soviet airbase in Georgia's breakaway region of Abkhazia.
Vashadze told reporters in Tbilisi Friday the planes are on the ground at the airfield near Gudauta and called the deployment a flagrant violation of a 1999 agreement on conventional forces in Europe
Has Biden/Clinton/Obama spoken about this? Russia needs to drive up oil prices. They won't servive if they don't.
Posted by: fuckrussia at February 08, 2009 01:36 PM (penCf)
12 This controversy reminds me of that part in "Holy Grail" where a woman is accused of being a witch. Somebody has to be blamed. Bad things don't just happen.
Some devastated parents need somebody to blame.
Posted by: eman at February 08, 2009 01:38 PM (ZsOIJ)
13 just because-
My then-middle schooler had to do a science fair project. My proposal was to expose everybody in the school to measels and see what the incidence was compared to what would be projected.
The delivery was simple -
Get some measels by going out to Amish country and finding a kid who was infected and having the kid cough, sneeze, and rub the flannel on some blisters.
Take the flannel and cut it into heart shapes, pin the heart shapes onto three teddy bears.
The fake experiment needed to camoflage the real one would be "See how long it takes the three teddy bears to be passed to all the homerooms"
The instructions were to give the teddy bear to a friend who had a different homeroom. Kids which had the teddy bears would write their names on a tag attached to the bear.
This would be useful information to have, as the third step was to alert county health officials and the CDC the day after exposure.
My wife, while agreeing that the experiment was scientifically valid, threatened to "castrate me in my sleep" if I went out to Lancaster County, even for the outlets.
So, we did a dumb ol' "how much CO2 can you get from vinegar and baking soda?" experiment.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 08, 2009 01:39 PM (MKFU7)
14 Our youngest is autistic. My wife was convinced of an MMR link, I most definitely wasn't. Like the GW hockey stick, like the DDT data, like counting Iraq death casualties, science is easily turned to be another weapon for someone with an agenda.
Posted by: nickless at February 08, 2009 01:42 PM (MMC8r)
15 This asshole, along with Jenny McCarthy, are personally responsible for the murder of countless children. These douchbags have also endangered our civilization! They should have their limbs hacked off, and be forced to live in a 3'x3' cell the rest of their miserable lives.
BTW, how's your "INDIGO CHILD" doing, Jenny? BAHAHAHA
Remember she implied that her kid was a perfectly evolved human.. or the next evolutionary jump or whatever? haha oh I don't know if I should be crying or laughing
Posted by: John Frum at February 08, 2009 01:46 PM (skmdJ)
16 It is frightening how science ignorant Americans are. This is a great opportunity for all manner of frauds and hucksters to manipulate the public into absurd policies and legislation. Private property rights have largely been eliminated in the cause of The Environment. Fuck the greenies.
Posted by: Shaitan at February 08, 2009 01:47 PM (65WaW)
17 on a per use basis the chances of a single failue is down to 50-50 after70 uses
Word. That's why I only use my condoms twice.
Posted by: toby928 at February 08, 2009 01:55 PM (PD1tk)
18 This is sad on several different levels. For those that are concerned about vaccines, this was only one piece of data that could be used. The acceleration of the vaccine schedule has shown more problems in kids. The plural of anecdotal evidence is not data, but judging from the correlation of the problems my wife sees in kids and early, heavy vaccine schedules there is something fcked up. She doesn't discourage vaccines, but she does encourage patients to go through reliable reports.
Unfortunately the clinical papers "showing" no correlation do no such thing. They measure other things, there is never a control group, and they are usually funded by the vaccine companies. What's sad is that there are control groups out there that would yield some definitive and reliable papers (Christian Scientists, Amish, etc) at no additional risk to the general population. Wonder why those screaming there is no correlation are hesitant to use such a control group for comparison.
Posted by: ken at February 08, 2009 02:03 PM (UmjvN)
19 It is frightening how science ignorant Americans are.
Posted by: Shaitan
Indeed. The goddess Irony giggles when she thinks of how easily ignorance can be displaced by knowledge these days.
All the scientific knowledge a person could want is now only keystrokes away.
People stay ignorant by their own hands.
Posted by: eman at February 08, 2009 02:04 PM (ZsOIJ)
20 Speaking of bad science, the CBO says that the recession will end mid '09 WITH NO STIMULUS PACKAGE. Can someone please wakeup the fucking MSM and hammer this home. WE DON'T NEED THE STIMULUS PACKAGE, unless of course you just want to grow your base. It's like a mega chia pet on steroids for the democratic party.
Posted by: CDR M at February 08, 2009 02:06 PM (TJoU6)
21 As the father of an autistic child myself, I am way too familiar with the anti-vax crowd. There are two major groups: A) charlatans like Wakefield, RFK Jr. and David Kirby and B) grieving parents who are ripe ground for those in group A to use in furthering their agendas.
I had the distinct displeasure of meeting Andy Wakefield a couple of years ago in Austin at the introduction of autism-related legislation we both testified in support of (cue the "politics make strange bedfellows" quote). He struck me as a creepy bullshit artist, although I admittedly carried a lot of that perception in with me.
nickless, I hope your wife has come around. Fortunately for me, neither my wife nor I ever fell for the vaccine bullshit, and we've talked about how rough life would be if one of us believed it and one of us didn't. And it's too funny that you use AGW, DDT, etc. as examples ... I make the same analogies all the time.
Posted by: Andy at February 08, 2009 02:08 PM (B+HYX)
22 Have medical family here (peds, OB, psch and Internal med) I can tell you there is NO TRUTH to these lies about vaccines.
The sadness is that all these humans are ripe for the diseases these shots prevent and over the years will never be sure which shots their kooky parents DID give them.
Think of all the forms you fill out to verify you have been immunized.
I hope these kids get smart when they turn 18 and get the shots on their own.
Posted by: ford at February 08, 2009 02:13 PM (Ki7fm)
23 Unfortunately the clinical papers "showing" no correlation do no such
thing. They measure other things, there is never a control group, and
they are usually funded by the vaccine companies. What's sad is that
there are control groups out there that would yield some definitive and
reliable papers (Christian Scientists, Amish, etc) at no additional
risk to the general population. Wonder why those screaming there is no
correlation are hesitant to use such a control group for comparison.
Or, you could wonder what's preventing an independent group of scientists who aren't funded by vaccine companies from doing this.
Posted by: AndrewR at February 08, 2009 02:14 PM (Hx2mp)
24 Given the claims about heavy metal toxicity and the fears of the
danger, there should be a helluva lot more cases of 40-70 year old
severely autistic people than there are.
On the other hand, have you looked at Congress lately?
As to Jenny McCarthy, I'd never deny someone their personal grief and rage over misfortune, nor their fierce determination to protect or avenge their child. It's just that it shouldn't be national news unless there's actually a national problem.
Science has turned out to be a little bit of a slut, it seems. Sign of the times, I guess.
Posted by: Merovign at February 08, 2009 02:14 PM (or0jG)
25 ken, the Amish vaccinate their kids.
Posted by: Andy at February 08, 2009 02:15 PM (B+HYX)
26 I attended the Autism07 conference in Lafayette, LA a couple years ago. I met Andrew Wakefield. I saw his slides, I know that from cultures taken from the intestines of his desperately ill patients, he grew the strain of measles that is only present in the MMR vaccine.
I live with an autistic child, who is now 22. He was brain-damaged by vaccination. I will defend Andrew Wakefield because I have been in the trenches for 18 years and know that Andrew Wakefield is doing God's work.
I do not trust the Lancet to find truth in anything, since their report about how many Iraqis were killed by US troops.
There is an astronomical amount of money involved in making sure the vaccination religion is practiced by everyone. Well, no one comes to help you out when your 22 year old child is too stupid to hold a job sacking groceries, because you vaccinated him and watched as he screamed with encephalitis brought on in less than an hour from the vaccine.
My son was a genius, was reading when he was 2, could add and subtract when he was 3. The vaccines finally got him, and now he'll probably never be able to leave home. That's what "real science" and "vaccine researchers" did to my family.
I would stand in front of a freight train for Andrew Wakefield.
Posted by: MathMom at February 08, 2009 02:20 PM (o+jIZ)
27 I do not trust the Lancet to find truth in anything
Wakefield's original MMR study was published in the The Lancet.
Posted by: Andy at February 08, 2009 02:25 PM (B+HYX)
28 #23 - Uhh maybe because it would be unethical and any M.D. involved in such a study would lose his license? (Preventing children from getting a vaccine is seen as criminal and unethical to doctors...and just about everyone who enjoys living)
BTW, a control group could only show lower instances.. and since its impossible to show lower than the current rate (duh..unless your testing aliens), I'm not sure what your getting at.. Not sure you know either.. But it sure sounds 'science-like' to claim its not valid because its not a valid 'double-blind' study.
Like the anti-vac crowd is all upitty on the scientific results.. riiiight.
Posted by: John Frum at February 08, 2009 02:30 PM (skmdJ)
29 On the other hand, have you looked at Congress lately?
Merovign, just to distinguish, autism is not mental retardation. Natural intelligence of an autistic can be quite high-- but because of an inability to sort out sensory information, it can be hard to develop normally.
Congress is largely a learned disability.
Posted by: nickless at February 08, 2009 02:33 PM (MMC8r)
30 Isn't the vaccine they are talking about given to babies, not toddlers? Is it all vaccines?
Posted by: aquestioner at February 08, 2009 02:36 PM (penCf)
31 MathMom: you vaccinated him and watched as he screamed with encephalitis brought on in less than an hour from the vaccine.If someone told you that, then you were taken for a fool. Unless your shild had an allergic reaction to the vaccine that led to encephalitis, there's no way in hell he acquired it from the vaccine.
Although you could try to wrap your brain around this: if it was an allergic reaction, then your son was doomed to end up with the encephalitis anyhow.
Your son was not a victim of science, business, or religion. He was the victim of dumb luck.
Posted by: brian at February 08, 2009 02:38 PM (PC3tf)
Yes yes, it's all a conspiracy! Those evil pharmaceutical companies are covering up the TRUTH so they can make money! We need to get back to dying or being horribly crippled in childhood by good old, all-natural diseases like polio and smallpox, the way God intended.
Posted by: Slowking Man at February 08, 2009 02:38 PM (lz0gP)
4 - How does incidence go "up" when exposure goes down?
Homeopathy baby. Homeopathy asplains it all.
/doesn't believe in homeopathy
Posted by: Tinian at February 08, 2009 02:39 PM (Ohodx)
34 "...because you vaccinated him and watched as he screamed with encephalitis brought on in less than an hour from the vaccine."
Um, MathMom, what does encephalitis-caused brain damage have to do with the idea that vaccinations cause autism? It seems to me that your son either got a bad batch of vaccine, or what is more likely got encephalitis from some other cause, probably a disease for which there is, or was when your son was a child, no vaccine.
By the way, it's really odd that you say you'd "stand in front of a freight train" for this doctor. What the hell does that mean? You'd commit suicide rather than accept the idea that your hero is a fraud? That'll be a real help to your son.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at February 08, 2009 02:41 PM (vLf8O)
35 Oh, and how many people have died as a result of parents listening to Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy and their ilk?
With the number of people opting out of vaccination at an all-time high (since universal vaccination started), why haven't then number of new autism diagnoses diminished?
This is the same bullshit we're going through fighting the Warmists. Temperatures haven't gone up in ten years, Atmospheric CO2 has done nothing but rise, and somehow we're expected to believe that the Greenhouse Theory is still valid?
How much evidence to the contrary of a theory does it take to dislodge that theory?
Posted by: brian at February 08, 2009 02:42 PM (PC3tf)
36 In other news, someone really needs to get the blockquote mechanism working here. Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Posted by: brian at February 08, 2009 02:43 PM (PC3tf)
37 Isn't this also like how they treated DEET? Could have saved lives. . .damb shame.
Posted by: aquestioner at February 08, 2009 02:44 PM (penCf)
38 John Frum,
My post was supposed to be a sarcastic rebuttal to Ken's suggestion, not an agreement with it.
Also, I wasn't suggesting we deny kids vaccines for the sake of a study. What would be unethical, though, about studying a group of children whose parents have declined to have them vaccinated?
Posted by: AndrewR at February 08, 2009 02:46 PM (Hx2mp)
39 Congress is largely a learned disability.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at February 08, 2009 02:46 PM (rWvvO)
40 Gab you have done it now. The anti-vaccination crowd will be crawling out of the woodwork to comment. This post may end up with more comments than dollars in the stimulus package.
Posted by: Long Island at February 08, 2009 02:53 PM (XHzEP)
41 It seems at least two have shown up. I'm sure they're going to their message boards to spread the word of our heresy.
Posted by: buzzion at February 08, 2009 02:55 PM (lCm/E)
42 This is the same bullshit we're going through fighting the Warmists.
Almost exactly. Significantly, both rely heavily on hockeystick shaped graphs that confuse correlation with causality as the prime bit of evidence for their theories.
Mann's hockeystick is an outright fraud, and the "autism epidemic" comes largely from changes in the diagnostic criteria (DSM-III, DSM-IV and DSM-IV-TR progressively broaden the definition of autism) and better/earlier recognition and diagnosis. For anyone who's interested, a good book on the topic is Unstrange Minds.
While it's possible that there is a man-made component of both changes in climate and rising autism rates, there's no way to separate the signal from the noise in either case.
Posted by: Andy at February 08, 2009 02:59 PM (B+HYX)
43 Unfortunately, they are immune to simple logic.
Posted by: brian at February 08, 2009 02:59 PM (PC3tf)
44 Why has autism gone up but the use of vaccines with mercury gone down? Both of my kids have had their MMR's and no issues (outside of hating the bitch that stuck them!).
Posted by: CDR M at February 08, 2009 03:09 PM (TJoU6)
45 I noticed that the comments have started. Apparently mathmom would rather be hit by a train than acknowledge the benefit of vaccinations. This summer I walked through an 19th century cemetery in New England. On one gravestone a family last 4 children in less than 4 months. One child every 3 weeks. The grief that family must have suffered. I bet that 19th century mother would like to come back from great beyond and push these anti-vaccination idiots in front of a train.
Posted by: Long Island at February 08, 2009 03:10 PM (XHzEP)
46 There is no way to even study this, is there? What happens if, instead of vaccines, a certain deodorant or toothpaste used during pregnancy, is the cause? A scientist would have to study ALL factors, from the time of conception, to have even a generality.
Posted by: aquestioner at February 08, 2009 03:10 PM (penCf)
47 # 38 Sorry bout that
Is that true about Michelle Malkin? Damn I wish I never heard that... ouch
Posted by: John Frum at February 08, 2009 03:15 PM (skmdJ)
48 used during pregnancy
BTW does anyone know when jenny had all her plastic surgery? Maybe there is correlation between mothers with silicon breast implants having autistic children.
Posted by: Long Island at February 08, 2009 03:17 PM (XHzEP)
49 He should be in prison.
Posted by: someone at February 08, 2009 03:21 PM (1wXl7)
50 Follow up on #46 What about stress during pregnancy? What happens if a very stressful event happened in the mother's life when she was pregnant. Then, when the child experiences something stressful (shot), something "clicks" in the child's brain. . .they start to "remember" the womb (void of bright lights, harsh noises, people, touch, etc.) Just a thought.
Posted by: aquestioner at February 08, 2009 03:22 PM (penCf)
51 are you the same John Frum as at RB?
Posted by: Frank G at February 08, 2009 03:29 PM (Aaspy)
52 I got a kick that this story was called an example of "Mannian enHansenment".
Posted by: Neo at February 08, 2009 03:43 PM (Yozw9)
53 If injecting mercury into children is 100% safe, why are newly manufactured vaccines now being made without mercury?
End of argument.
Posted by: Indythinker at February 08, 2009 03:59 PM (M3hG/)
54 If injecting mercury into children is 100% safe, why are newly manufactured vaccines now being made without mercury?
Posted by: toby928 at February 08, 2009 04:00 PM (PD1tk)
55 It is probably a little late to mention this now, but all you folks going on about mercury should probably take a pill. The MMR jab never contained thimerosal or mercury.
You're talking about a different (although equally false) vaccine scare.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at February 08, 2009 04:05 PM (rWvvO)
56 Now that I think of it, maybe I'll put that in the post too. We can head some of these ninnies off before they work up a full head of steam.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at February 08, 2009 04:06 PM (rWvvO)
57 #4's reasoning is spot-on, and applies equally to the scares about lead-based paint. Most housepaints years ago had lead in it, and if the zealots were correct the US should never have risen to become a superpower; we older folks should all be brain-damaged from the ubiquitous presence of lead when we were yutes.
I had tenants a few years back, a neurologist and a pharmacist, who moved out of our rental unitbecause they discovered traces of lead in the yard dirt (likely from a sandblasting of shingles before we bought the house).
They were from Belgium. Said they never had such a problem in Europe. (pure bullshite)
They had a young kid. They asked to break their lease.
I said "Sure!", not wanting to risk another second of being blamed if anything happened to their darling.
You know where they moved to? A block away from an electrical plating company that had been cited for emitting illegal air pollutants.
Posted by: fulldroolcup at February 08, 2009 04:14 PM (fMMKi)
58 Thanks for the update Gabe! Bottom line, you expose your child to more risks NOT immunizing your child than if you did. Your child is probably exposed to so many things in the environment that it is hard to know what may cause what. Hell, I would argue that your child is more at risk from some kind of HAZMAT from toys made in China than medicine.
Posted by: CDR M at February 08, 2009 04:16 PM (TJoU6)
59 Update: Whenever you talk about vaccine scares you get people going on about thimerosal. Just FYI: the MMR jab never contained thimerosal. Never. Ever.
Yeah. The "Goalpost Shift" is tactic #1 in the anti-vaxxers' playbook. First it was the MMR bogeyman, then it was thimerosal, then it was the "too many, too soon" claim that the vaccine schedule was the problem, and now Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey run around chanting "Green Our Vaccines" (whatever the fuck that means).
Wakefield's whole theory about the MMR was that putting the measles virus into certain children who were particularly vulnerable resulted in their developing autism. It should've been blown out of the water when he himself suggested that separating the MMR into 3 different shots would be preferable, notwitstanding the fact that the first "M" shot alone would put the exact same amount of measles virus into the child as the MMR.
Brian Deer's original expose of this charlatan is worth a read.
Posted by: Andy at February 08, 2009 04:36 PM (B+HYX)
60 Why has autism gone up.
I'm not convinced it has gone up. I am convinced that reporting of it has gone up dramatically though, particularly in milder cases where the kid would have simply dismissed as fidgety/difficult/etc 40 years ago.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at February 08, 2009 04:41 PM (Ygf78)
61 #4 "T'is a mystery, wrapped in a conundrum, flavored with bacon."
Don't tease me. Sounds delicious.
Thanks, Gabriel, for continuing to monitor Lancet news. The bastards. This gaffe is especially rich since all the girly moonbats around me prattle on endlessly about autism, vax (as they call them) and government conspiracies to dumb down the populace. Just once I'd like to ovulate without getting a "vax-free babies!" lecture.
Posted by: Amanda at February 08, 2009 04:54 PM (SXosX)
62 "If injecting mercury into children is 100% safe, why are newly manufactured vaccines now being made without mercury?"
Retards like you.
Posted by: someone at February 08, 2009 05:43 PM (1wXl7)
63 Why has autism gone up.
In addition to the increase diagnosis of children who may have slipped through the cracks in the past, parents with children who are developmentally disabled with multiply complications often prefer to have their children labeled autistic rather than having mental retardation.
Posted by: Long Island at February 08, 2009 06:05 PM (XHzEP)
64 The rate largely went up due to changes in the diagnostic criteria that took place in the early 1990s as well as higher ascertainment of the disease by practitioners.
Posted by: madscientistmom at February 08, 2009 06:20 PM (O/21r)
65 The lowest of the lower parts of Hell is too good for this asshat!
He should be prosecuted for murder.
Posted by: TennDon at February 08, 2009 08:04 PM (o6Yv2)
66 @18: There would never be a study with a control group. It would never, ever get past the Institutional Review Board (a research ethics oversight board made of scientists and non-scientists which need to approve every study before it begins).
Also, correlation studies generally do not involve a control group. They look at two variables and see if they are occur at the same time/in the same group. A control group exists because you change something in the experimental group, and see the differences between the two. I'm not 100% sure you know what you're talking about when it comes to research design. Care to elaborate more?
(Good job, #2
@23: Medical studies are expensive. You need funding. Additionally, it is extremely insulting to imply that only scientists that are not gaining funding from a "vaccination company" are independent. Sure, there are bad apples in the scientific community, just like there are in all professions (Hello, Andrew Wakefield!). However, the kind of large, conspiracy theory you're implying must exist in order for the repeated studies to show no link between autism and vaccinations is really hard to swallow given the sheer number of scientists involved. We all take our work, and the adherence to the scientific method, very seriously.
@26: Your story is heartbreaking, it truly is. I cannot imagine how difficult it was/is to be going through this, and my heart goes out to you. I do, however, have a single question: What evidence must be submitted for you to agree that there is not a link between autism and vaccinations? If your answer is that NO evidence will ever be sufficient, then I submit that you're operating based off of a belief system, not an evidenced-based method of understanding. If no study will ever be good enough for you, then you severely cripple your argument, and, unfortunately, should be ignored. The rest of us will work with the evidence we have, and will work on actual solutions.
@46: There are statistical techniques to determine how much of the variances, or difference, between to groups is due to the variable(s) that you're studying, and how much is due to extraneous variables that you are not. Obviously, we can't know all the variables, and that's why good research design is focused on eliminating differences
between your subjects so that you can know as many of the meaningful
variables as possible. Doing this strengthens your results.
I'm also pleased with not having to explain why the autism rates have gone up. Good job, guys.
/working on a PhD in Clinical Psychology
// PRO vaccination, unless compelling evidence to the contrary is submitted.
Posted by: jgrabyan at February 08, 2009 08:05 PM (+SPj2)
67 One last chime-in:
The CDC has a list of contra-indications for vaccinations - allergic to eggs, previous reaction, flu/cold at time of immunization, et cetera.
In almost all of the anti-vax annecdotes I've read, something comes out that was a contraindication.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at February 08, 2009 09:03 PM (MKFU7)
68 #67, I think I've spotted your error. You forgot to take the secant of the mantissa before integrating.
Posted by: fulldroolcup at February 08, 2009 09:31 PM (fMMKi)
69 Its the formula for cold fusion
or time travel, either, or
Posted by: prudence and care at February 08, 2009 09:45 PM (PD1tk)
70 As a biochemist myself it frustrates me to see guys like Wakefield use pseudo-science to exploit grieving families. A few notes about this man
- It was revealed he received money from a legal firm involved in suits against vaccine companies: ie he had a direct financial interest in linking autism to MMR.
-It was also revealed he had taken out a patent for a rival measles vaccine: ie he had a direct financial interest in discrediting the current MMR vaccine.
- Other 'scientists' who have supported Wakefield also have a direct financial interest- for example, proponents of the mercury scare also happen tosell 'chelation therapy' to remove mercury.
- All but one of his co-authors inhis original paper have asked that their names no longer be associated with Wakefield's research. When even your own collaborators disown you, it's not a good look.
As to why the apparent rates of autism are increasing: better diagnosis and greater understanding of psychological/behavioural problems. A generation ago people with autism were labelled 'retarded' and that was that. People with mild cases of autism were probably thought of as 'slow' or 'a bit different'.
Also worth noting is that symptoms of autism are noticeable by experts after a few months: before the MMR vaccine is given. The symptoms are generally not obvious to laypeople like parents until about the age the MMR is given, which is where the supposed connection seems to come from.
Posted by: AussieMarcus at February 08, 2009 09:47 PM (fpdWP)
71 "If injecting mercury into children is 100% safe, why are newly manufactured vaccines now being made without mercury?"
Retards like you.
More specifically as a sop to retards like you so you don't put your children and other children at risk through your blithering stupidity.
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It would help if you had a clue what you are talking about. I suggest reading Paul Offit's Autism's False Prophets, which explains in detail why and how the medical establishment moved to remove thimerosal from vaccines, absent evidence.
The chapter is also instructive on the pitfalls of virtual, rather than face-to-face, decision-making.
I've done another round-up post -- who is saying what about the Deer articles on Wakefield in the London Times. I've included this post.
Posted by: Liz Ditz at February 08, 2009 11:09 PM (HoX+E)
75 Most of the arguments against the anti-vac people have pretty much been set out rather well here, so I won't revisist them. However, one is still hanging out there.
It has been mentioned that infants are getting "too many too early", as a possible reason for autism, and indeed, many other problems the lawyers can dream up.
Well, a study has shown that children in the past while receiving fewer shots, were getting many more antigens per innoculation. Where a child got around 200proteins in the old polio vaccine alone, throughout the course of the entire immunization schedule now, the child will get only about 130.
In addition,that samestudy done by Paul Offit in the journal Pediatrics; January 2002, showed the infant immune system is capable of dealing with 'about 10 000 vaccines at any one time'.
That should put to rest the "too many, too early" meme, but it won't.
Posted by: TomB at February 09, 2009 11:50 AM (HPG5S)
76 It turns out journalist Brian Deer made it up:-
"Sunday Times Journalist Made Up Wakefield MMR Data Fixing Allegation":
And he was helping the US Justice Dept sink 4500 US kids claims for vaccine damage compensation - what kind of normal journalist does that? Ans: none.
"US Federal Court, US Justice Dept & The Sunday Times - More Questions Than Answers"
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A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)