1

Ok, so let's say we go ahead and cap their pay.  When will the cap be lifted?

 

Furthermore, what's to prevent these CEO's (or executives who are actually talented and could rescue these companies from their crisis) from leaving these capped jobs and going somewhere where they won't have their pay dictated by the government?

2 He is on the board of directors now.

3 This may be the first thing Juggy has done right, as far as I'm concerned.  No kleptocracy.

4 Damn , one more earmark attempt and Michelle would have been at the cap.

5 If this goes ahead, it will only be a matter of time before it creeps into VP pay, upper management pay, and on down the line (unless, of course, you're in a union--then you're, quite literally, golden).

6

"This is not the time for profits on Wall Street"

Awesomeness!

7 More troubling is that government intervention never gets smaller or undone. It almost inevitably becomes more invasive. Yeah, my first thought hearing this was what's stopping them from capping my pay? Or yours? Seems like a precedent is being set here.

8

Furthermore, what's to prevent these CEO's (or executives who are actually talented and could rescue these companies from their crisis) from leaving these capped jobs and going somewhere where they won't have their pay dictated by the government?

Nobody's indispensible.  As a matter of fact, the graveyards are full of indispensible men that the world could not possibly survive without.  Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

9 My new unicorn just showed up. The problem is it looks like the neighbor's dog and what it left in my front yard ain't skittles.

10 How bout we cap the salary of congress at 1 dollar, eliminate their pension (give them a 401K instead), eliminate their staff and their petty cash account, but give them cots to sleep on in their office.  Oh yeah, 6 years max in DC, and then banned for life from lobbying.

11 Yes, my puppets. Accept the new normal.

12 Yeah, I don't mind this: Maybe it will keep more companies from going the bailout route - get your shit straight or you'll have to give up all your golden commodes.

13 Perhaps this will encourage them not to take bailout money.

14 This is very creepy...this is only the beginning of "if you took our money then we pretty much run your company...".  This particular rule also seems useless at a cursory glance (a CEO could be compensated other than just salary).

In a competitive environment - like the 'free' market - companies will clamour for dominance in any new revenue stream that becomes available and if that source is the government it doesn't matter.  Healthy companies will need to compete with the unhealthy ones for the government handouts or else lose a massive competitive edge.  So it's not just unhealthy companies that the government is attracting for handouts.

I wonder if this kind of thing will scare companies away from the government dole - this new source of 'revenue' may suddenly seem to noxious to accept (which would be a good thing).

15 What #1 said.

I think a better plan, if you're going to go this route, is to force any company that takes bailout money to fire their CEO (with none of that "golden parachute" crap), and bar the CEO from being hired by a different bailed-out company.  And let stockholders line up and throw tomatoes at the guy as he leaves the building.

16 With the notable exception to my disgust in government involvement in private corporations, my reaction to this is 'meh'. We shouldn't be bailing out private companies in the first place and if a company is a failure, it should be allowed to fail. As far as I can tell, the consequences of failure on the greater market are inconsequential to the act of enabling a bad business to survive and the short and long term costs to taxpayers. If we are going to dump money, give it to the successful companies that will inevitably bear the strain of picking up after these failures.

Still, as an unwilling shareholder of a slew of money pits, I cannot support paying for pay increases, junkets and jets for the management of these bloated atrocities. That includes our Congress.

17
No mention of my swingin' new dacha!

Gotcha!

18

I posted this elsewhere but this is the inverse of the problem with the minimum wage.  If you cap the head guy at 500k then you have to cap the other executives under him for far less than 500k.  That'll help you put together a good team.  Also, you won't see him pushing union wage reductions or caps.

I say this with the opinion that very few CEO's are worth the millions they get.  They are like abstract art.  No one would be able to tell the difference if you exchange a million dollar piece with a 5th grader's scribblings. For the most part.

19 "This is not the time for profits on Wall Street"

But please investors keep throwing you money into the economy.

20

"This is not the time for profits on Wall Street"

Awesomeness!

Shut-up, he didn't say that, did he? Boy, Obama is like Can't-Get-Right, from Life, more and more every day.

21 I agree. Creepy, crappy, and completely marxist. But it may end up being good in that this could scare companies into telling the government hell no we don't want your help. Maybe this will kill the bailout craze?

22 NEXT to go will be their COMPANY cars and there DRIVERS.

23

This is America. We don't disparage wealth. We don't begrudge anybody for achieving success,"

Bullshit.  Try telling that to the "rich who are not paying their fair share" when the top 1% are paying something like 35% of federal tax.

24 This is very creepy...this is only the beginning of "if you took our money then we pretty much run your company...". 

Well, that's actually capitalism.  Shareholders DO own your company.

I agree with Vercingetorix, this should be used specifically as a disincentive to companies who want the cash.

25

Something doesn't feel right about this.  I am as outraged as anyone about the reports of excessive bonuses, but it has been going on for quite a long time and we didn't have any problem with it as long as our 401-K's were intact, did we?

Now are 401-K's are in the stinker and all of a sudden we're in an uproar.

One good thing about it is that it might dissuade companies from actually taking any money.  If they way the value of their executives against the value of bailout money, they might think twice about taking the cash.  More than likely they can get by without it anyway.

A slippery slope, indeed.  It could well create a generation of defacto John Galts.

26 Ok, so let's say we go ahead and cap their pay.  When will the cap be lifted?

It will be lifted by President Jindal, January 21st, 2013.

27 It will be lifted by President Jindal, January 21st, 2013.

God willing and the creek don't rise...

28 Aren't a lot of these CEO's democrats?

29 Aren't a lot of these CEO's democrats?

Yet one more reason to cap their pay.

30

2 things, does that mean if they can show that there were no "treasuary monies" used in the payments that 1 million + salaries are ok?

And who what's to bet that the "exceptional assistance" clause has some kind of DNCC payment clause in it?

31

I'm just curious about how this story intersects with those reports we heard a while ago about banks that didn't want any bailout money being strongarmed by Paulson into taking it.

 

32 It will be lifted by President Jindal, January 21st, 2013.

Or by President Palin...

Or by President Romney...

But not by President McCain.

33 Or by President Palin...

I don't know about Sarah in 2012.  She's "brand damaged" right now and I don't see her taking a lot of time to bone up on foreign policy - or other things she's not sure about.

We'll see.  I like her, but I'd rather have Romney or Jindal.

34 Ellsworth Monkton Toohey was unavailable for comment.

35 Ugh. I hate to say this, but... he's well within his rights to do so. Theses companies have been effectively nationalized, so the gov't has every right to tell them how to run their businesses.

Maybe taking that bailout money doesn't seem like such a good idea, hmm? Government giving gifts with strings attached and then moving in to muck shit up, I mean, who could have seen this coming?

Oh yeah. I'm thinking maybe these folks don't deserve these salaries anymore if they're dumb enough to not see this coming. Until then, the bailed out companies will lose their best workers to companies that didn't take the money and don't cap salaries, while those companies who do will have to make do with mediocre talent and slowly drift into Amtrak status.

"Beware Greeks Congress bearing gifts..."

36 Somehow Obama thinks that this will show he is protecting the public, by ensuring that no really top executives will apply to run companies in trouble. Companies in trouble should pay executives merit pay to turn them around, not cap their salaries. Typical idiocy of Obama's fairy tale world.

37 "Well, that's actually capitalism.  Shareholders DO own your company.

I agree with Vercingetorix, this should be used specifically as a disincentive to companies who want the cash."

As far as I know they government is buying shares of companies it's 'assisting' (I could be wrong) - so in this scenario how does the company 'buy' back it's right to do what it wants?

38

"What do you want Ellsworth ?"

"Power, Petey. I want to rule. Like my spiritual predecessors. But I’m luckier than they were. I inherited the fruit of their efforts and I shall be the one who’ll see the great dream made real. I see it all around me today. I recognise it. I don’t like it. I didn’t expect to like it. Enjoyment is not my destiny. I shall find such satisfaction as my capacity permits. I shall rule."

39 Fine.  If I'm a CEO, we just invent another position like Chief Visionary Vice-President or something, I serve in both positions, and the CVVP spot pays a shitload.

40 "Aren't a lot of these CEO's democrats?"

If they are they won't be for long.

41 As far as I know they government is buying shares of companies it's 'assisting' (I could be wrong) - so in this scenario how does the company 'buy' back it's right to do what it wants?

Pay off the debt to Uncle Sugar...or buys its shares back.  Treasury will be only too happy to unload them in a few years.

42

Anachronda, I wondered the same thing. This is creepy Marxist crap. There is nothing good that comes out of Marxism. How can it even work as a disincentive if a company can be forced by threat of violence into being nationalized?

And if Paulson locks a CEO in a room, lines the doors with Secret Service agents, and says "You can't live till you sign this paper," that's a threat of violence.

Stupid Marxists.

43

I meant "You can't LEAVE until you sign..."

Whatever.

44 "Theses companies have been effectively nationalized, so the gov't has every right to tell them how to run their businesses."

It's not really a question of right, and the government is not a majority shareholder just because it provided a bailout. The government can impose conditions for a bailout, no problem, but capping the salaries and not providing merit pay or bonuses for those who do well is really dumb. You are effectively ensuring competent management won't touch these companies with a ten foot pole.

45 I meant "You can't LEAVE until you sign..."

Under Marxism your first version would have been accurate too.

46 I'm a moron - my post should have read:

"Well, that's actually capitalism.  Shareholders DO own your company.

I agree with Vercingetorix, this should be used specifically as a disincentive to companies who want the cash."

As far as I know they government is not buying shares of companies it's 'assisting' (I could be wrong) - so in this scenario how does the company 'buy' back it's right to do what it wants?

47 This does make a certain amount of sense.  The government does own them so if Obama orders that they smear peanut butter in the hair and wear their underwear on the outside they should just shut up and do it.  As far as fears that the best and the brightest won't accept compensation caps and will look elsewhere, let it happen.  It doesn't really matter.  They are doomed to failure anyway.  Even if a brilliant CEO decided to work at GM and turn the place around, Congressman Slobbering Barney (F - Massachusetts) would still require that he build economically unfeasible cars designed tlo protest the environment rather than to provide transportaion.  People won't want them and will not buy them.  Let Obama be Obama.  Let him sink with all of the other obamunists and socialists. 

48 The motivation maybe borderline populism but the arrangement is within the confines of a market system. In this case the failed companies agreed to government intervention in exchange for cash and guarantees. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that.

What we should be on the lookout for is Congressional proposals to cap or limit exec. pay on any company. I expect a whole raft of legislation with worse intentions and results aimed at corporations and compensation coming down the pike. In terms of class-warfare and anti-capitalist legislation, we're just getting started.

49 Well, we're finally here ... Noi tireremo diritto!

50 I think we ought to cap the pay of any non-military government workers to the average per capita income of the US citizen. (Military gets capped at 75th percentile.)

Make government service a sacrifice, just like the Lightbringer asks. I also bet that making it possible for the local fast-food manager to make more than his Senator is the cure for Political Swelled-Head-itis for those inside the Beltway. (Make accepting any benefits from lobbyists a felony, just to keep 'em honest.)

Remember, folks, these people are supposed to be working for US, not the other way around. If they want to cap the pay of civilians who accept taxpayer money, let's return the favor.

51

Wait. "I hate to say this, but... he's well within his rights to do so. Theses companies have been effectively nationalized, so the gov't has every right to tell them how to run their businesses."

WTF? What right does he have? Up until September, this was a more or less free market economy with a Constitution that limited the role of government. (Theoretically, but let's go with it.) What the hell kind of right is "might makes right"? Just because Bush and Paulson engineered a financial crisis and a Marxist-style seizure of private industry does NOT mean that the President - Bush, O!, or whoever is next - has the right to pull this Marxist crap.

No. O! has not right to cap pay. Bush had no right to overthrow private companies. This is evil. This is a perversion of everything America used to be. I refuse to accept it intellectually, I refuse to call it normal, and I sure as hell am not going to defend this as anybody's "right."

52 Cap good. This is business welfare.

53 I say this with the opinion that very few CEO's are worth the millions they get.  They are like abstract art.  No one would be able to tell the difference if you exchange a million dollar piece with a 5th grader's scribblings. For the most part.

BINGO!!!

I've always said this. Let's test this policy. Cap lawyers' salaries, too.

Reasons why: Lawyers' income is set by the rules of our legal system. We are told that lawyers' services are some sort of public good, so we need to subject them to the same rules as a public servant.

I think if you try to apply rules to lawyers that you apply to everybody else, all of a sudden, Obama & co. are against it.

54 Before long we'll have to fill out our bank deposit slips in triplicate.

55 "The motivation maybe borderline populism but the arrangement is within the confines of a market system. In this case the failed companies agreed to government intervention in exchange for cash and guarantees. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with that."

Borderline??? Nothing borderline about it, socialism at its best, the government decides what your work is worth. By capping salaries and not providing incentives the government is in effect ensuring the companies will not have adequate management and signing their death warrant. Plenty fundamentally wrong with that. Is the government also going to say how much profit the companies can have, or what price they sell their products for, or what their marketing policies should be? Compensation levels is nothing the government should be involved in, its pure window dressing and politics.

56 Hark back to the Ben & Jerry's CEO fiasco of the early '90s. They limited the pay to 5 times the pay of the lowest paid employee. Once Ben Cohen left they couldn't get anyone. They increased the pay and got a loser. Now B & J' is owned by Unilever. These bank execs will jump ship before you can say "Chocolate Chippy Hippie".

57 President Obama, from prepared remarks, 4/1/2009:

"From this day on, the official language of the United States will be Swedish. Silence! In addition to that, all citizens will be required to change their underwear every half-hour. Underwear will be worn on the outside so we can check. Furthermore, all children under 16 years old are now... 16 years old!"

58 Why is he only railing against those who make a lot of money for doing a bad job, and not against those who never do any job? Oh, yeah, I forgot, his wife would have to give back all the money to the Univ. of Chicago she never "earned." Why does Dire Straits "Money for Nothing" keep running through my head?

59

"If you take the king's coin, sir, then you are obliged to fight the king's wars."

Just so with those executives: if you take the government's money, you play by the government's rules.

60 Posted by: Ella at February 04, 2009 01:29 PM (jeP9I)

He has the right to do it because he has the authority to negotiate the deals on behalf the US government. If companies don't want to cap their executive's salaries they are free not to take the money and pay as much money they want to their people.

However, if they want the money, then like any investment deal, it may come with strings. If you don't want the government messing around in your business, I suggest not running it into the ground and then asking for a handout.

61

Gee...maybe supporting TARP was not such a great idea after all!  It's not like it was a dubious stalking horse for socialism or anything...

62 Posted by: Congressional Republicans at February 04, 2009 02:03 PM (hlYel)

Er, that was me.

63 At the investment banks, 3rd year associates can pull 500k.... this will work.... not...

64 nk, (short for North Korea?): "This may be the first thing Juggy has done right, as far as I'm concerned.  No kleptocracy."

Hey but why stop there?  What this nation needs is a legal Maximum Wage.

65

I call bullshit. The ONLY individuals that have ANY right to "cap" the salaries OR bonuses of CEO's are the STOCKHOLDERS. The gov't has nada to do with any of this shit. Don't like what the board of directors neggotiated? Then force them to change it . Sure as hell our government has no business arbitarily deciding who is paid what.

 Watch how long it takes for this to escalate.

66

What this nation needs is a legal Maximum Wage.

What I need is some maximum wage.

67 I suspect the Law of Unintended Consequences is lurking, making ready to strike.

68 #67--Damn straight, how long do you give it?

69 Vercingetorix @ 12 "Yeah, I don't mind this: Maybe it will keep more companies from going the bailout route "

Two counterexamples: Bank of America.  Citigroup.  Weren't insolvent.  Got strongarmed into getting bailed out anyway.  Because hey, never let a good government power grab go to waste, y'know.

70 This isn't even like an investment deal. There are no rights of ownership. No exchange of shares for money. It's money with strings attached. The end.

Furthermore, it's not stockholders who vote for the bonuses, it's the company's BOD. Many [not all] of these boards inexplicably vote for irresponsible bonuses at times when their companies have been posting losses.

71 Brendan @ #15, just guessing here, but do you get most of your economic issues analysis from Bill O'Reilly?  If not, what other populist demogogue mouthbreather do you get it from?

Bald Ninja @ 46 "As far as I know they government is not buying shares of companies it's 'assisting' (I could be wrong) "

Um, they are buying "preferred stock."  Which is yet another nice thin slice of Orwellian language, there, because NORMALLY "preferred stock" doesn't carry the same voting privileges that "common stock" does.  Only these guys, they kind of get to over-ride all of that. 

72 Actually, Obama's plan could be worse. He's not placing caps retroactively....

That will only serve to increase the traction under the meme that the "banksters" got special treatment unavailable to ordinary mortals. If you haven't figured out where that eventually leads, stick around.

73 Interesting.  The government, under the guise of FannieMae and FreddieMac, strongarms the banking industry into making mortgage loans and putting out derivatives that otherwise never would have taken place.  Not surprisingly, the market eventually tanks.

Along come the Feds, insisting that the banks take the bailout money to remain solvent.  Now the Feds are wanting to put a cap on executive salaries and so on.

Anyone want to tell me why the hairs on the back of my neck *shouldn't* be standing up right now?

74 I am a somewhat reluctant union member (airline pilot), and among this crowd, it was not uncommon to hear complaints during the Bush years about a R-dominated National Labor Relations Board "forcing" down our pay and benefits. I think this argument is crap, but don't get far. Funny thing though; the same guys will complain about CEO pay and think that the .gov ought to do something about it. They don't connect the dots at all. Separately: Law of Unintended Consequences. Indeed. http://tinyurl.com/24cblk

75 Financial institutions participating in the Generally Available Capital Access Programs can waive the $500,000 limit but would have to disclose those plans and, if requested, submit to a non-binding "say on pay" shareholder resolution.

So ...even if a company receives aid...they can opt out. However they have to if requested submit to a NON BINDING shareholder resolution. Pretty tough stuff. So they can opt out...and not listen to shareholder resolutions because they are non binding. The end result...a mechanism in place to keep the status quo. The executives still will get the same pay and perks.

In this case it is Obama's rule. I however don't fault him specifically because these are the type of rules both sides put in. They create a great headline...but nothing actually gets done.

76 WalrusRex @47 "Let Obama be Obama.  Let him sink with all of the other obamunists and socialists.  "

As soon as you show me a way for him to do that without sucking down all the rest of us with him, yeah, I'm on board for that.  Until then, not so much.

77 "I call bullshit. The ONLY individuals that have ANY right to "cap" the salaries OR bonuses of CEO's are the STOCKHOLDERS. The gov't has nada to do with any of this shit."

First, as TMQ points out, shareholders don't set executive pay: the boards of directors do.  Second, any creditor can impose  contractual conditions on a debtor (or what most of the TARP funds really are, what the civil-law world would call a "conditional gift").  This is a fantastically stupid policy motivated by total economic illiteracy and the usual populist class-war rhetoric of the Democratic Party, but (unfortunately) that by itself doesn't make it illegal.

The circular stupidity of all this is: 1) Uncle Sam bails out the banks to "get money moving in the economy again" but 2) criticizes or outright prohibits the recipients from actually spending the money on things.  You know, when the government says a company can't refurbish that executive suite, or take that planned corporate trip to Vegas, that's a bunch of furniture-makers and hotel employees, etc. who aren't getting that money.

78

Now B & J is owned by Unilever. These bank execs will jump ship before you can say "Chocolate Chippy Hippie".

Just find replacements with an essay contest.

 

79

I got to say, all these public fires sure to cause an uproar that Brrry keeps lighting is hiding something else. Axelrod, Rham and Barry all are dishonest, huge ego,con men  and manipulators. Though I am not a paranoid person, when all 3 of them posses the same qualities, I am very suspicous.

Barry keeps lighting fire after fire which surely is meant to capture our attention and casue an uproaor. Anyone believe all 3 of these men  were to niave,m stupid or egotistical to not realize ANY of the fires they have light will not go well? The yseem to be going out of their way to give everyone something to focus their attention on. Like a 3rd rate magician, if your looking where I want you to look, you won't see what I am doing where I don't want you to look. All this shit seems more like a crafted diversion to keep everyone busy so they are not looking elsewhere

Anyone else get that feeling?

80 and where are the caps for the politicians that take "campaign contributions" from these firms? Saw an article that Barney Frank is not ruling out salary caps on private businesses as well. This isn't a slippery slope, it's a 180 degree angle

81 Sorry, this is unamerican.

Also, it dooms those companies to failure.

I've known a few CEO's. These guys work very hard. Early days/late nights always. Hell, in general, their wives work very hard in the social, fund raising, etc. scene.

They are always the smartest guy in the room. Always.

So, combine a work ethic very few possess with big brains and you think these guys will settle for $500K a year? Not gonna happen.

You'll just get the also-rans and never-was's running the bailout out companies as they slowly collapse and cost us more money in the process.

The idea appeals to the envy in all of us and outrage at the bailout but it's not good business at all.

82 Ever see a poor Congressman? How 'bout they workl forcontributions bribes tips 'til they fix the budget?

83 Two counterexamples: Bank of America.  Citigroup.  Weren't insolvent.  Got strongarmed into getting bailed out anyway.

Yep. Forgot about auld Paulson and his crack team of Germans economists...

I'm with DrewM...Hey, DrewM, you still have that super-awesome site, Everything IS AwEsOmE!!!!!11!!11!!!?

Cuz SHIT Is SOOPER-Awesome right about now!

84

So, after 20 years of Democrats espousing the evils of the “very rich”, they now decide that amount is $500K per year. Well, except for Democrat ex-presidents making speeches, Democrat ex-Senators doing under-the-table lobbying and the rest of the leftist anointed peerage.

This is how it came to pass that Communist Party members had beautiful dachas in the country and expansive homes in Moscow while the prols survived in cold-water, one room flats in dilapidated, high-rise gulags. Is this the Democrat Party’s vision for America’s future? You bet your ass it is!

85

Maybe this is a stupid question but why doesn't the government just go to Wall Street and buy stock in these companies.  We could put in a provision that if the company starts turning a profit then the government needs to sell those stocks(responsibly, not sell all shares on a wednesday morning).  That way the government could always make recommendations and if they are the majority stock holder whatever they say goes.

The tax payers/voters could look at the government's portfolio and determine how good their government is performing.  Their political opponents certainly will make an issue of it.

86

So, combine a work ethic very few possess with big brains and you think these guys will settle for $500K a year? Not gonna happen.

You'll just get the also-rans and never-was's running the bailout out companies as they slowly collapse and cost us more money in the process.

This is the perfect situation for Affirmative Action to step in and fill the void.

87

Barry keeps lighting fire after fire which surely is meant to capture our attention and casue an uproaor. Anyone believe all 3 of these men  were to niave,m stupid or egotistical to not realize ANY of the fires they have light will not go well?

This is exactly what I expected when someone as unqualified for POTUS as Barry got elected.  I don't believe these fires are calculated.  What you are witnessing is incompetence.

88 Hmmm.

1. I have yet to see a CEO worth $500k a year.

2. Pay me $500k a year and I can destroy shareholder equity with the same speed, panache and aplomb as the very best "talented" CEOs out there.

89

I'm not saying this is right, but the bankers brought it on themselves.  If they didn't come hat-in-hand to the government to bail them out of bad practices this would not have happened.  Guess they'll just have to learn to survive at that level for a little while.

Anyway, if these guys wanna bail for greener pastures, just where exactly are they going to bail to?  What inadequately managed companies are waiting with baited breath to pay them 7 figures to potentially fuck them over?

 

90

I haven't read the comments yet to see if someone else has already said this, but I'm hoppin' mad, and don't want to cool down by reading yet.  I'll do that later.

"This is America. We don't disparage wealth. We don't begrudge anybody for achieving success," Obama said. "But what gets people upset — and rightfully so — are executives being rewarded for failure. Especially when those rewards are subsidized by U.S. taxpayers."

NEWSFLASH, MR. PRESIDENT:  Maybe we the people wouldn't be so damned upset about taxpayer-subsidized executive rewards if the chucklefucks in Congress (which includes you, since you were still a Junior Senator at the time) hadn't voted to pass a bailout bill MAKING THE REWARDS TAXPAYER-SUBSIDIZED in the first place!

Yes, I'm irked that it would appear that these banks aren't spending my taxed income wisely.  But I'm still incensed that they got my taxed income in the first place!

Where'd I put my bottle of Caduet?

91 This is cool - I always thought the Dems' minimum wage yin was missing its yang. Now we have it in the form of a maximum wage. The Obama Administration: Redefining America, One Day at a Time.

PS How did he come up with $500K? It just sounded good? He likes round numbers? Maybe he called Queen Nancy?

92 I can get all the winos I want who will fuck up for $10/hr + beer and smokes.

93

"My new unicorn just showed up. The problem is it looks like the neighbor's dog and what it left in my front yard ain't skittles."

Wow!  Yours makes Baby Ruth bars, too?  Wicked!

94 By the way, all this is going to do is ramp up non-wage compensation for the bailees. The government will never be able to play the shell game as well as the private sector. Guess how many CEO's will report exactly $500K in wages once this goes into affect?

95 Re #94 - I should have said "pseudo"-private sector. Gotta get used to that.

96

Everybody who thinks this is a good idea, it seems you're forgetting that a lot of the problems with these banks were caused when Congress (with an assist from Bush) insisted, er, demanded, that they extend mortgages to people who had no business getting them. And don't try to tell me that the CEOs were stupid to go along with it. When you have the Congresscritters hauling you in front of committees asking why you're not lending to the poor, disenfranchised, etc., then act like your local thug by saying "Nice bank you got there - be a shame if something happened to it.", they had about as much choice as a Paulson "meeting".

Look, some of these bankers are certainly tools and should be canned. But to have congress say to whom they have to lend, then blame it all on those evil capitalists, then have the Govt. cap pay, this is just lame.

97 If these CEOs and corporate heads manage to hemorrhage company equity while paying themselves and other board members huge bonuses for their incompetence/ criminality, then I'm way past caring about a limit imposed by the people who have to subsidize their ashen corpse. So much success at those senior levels of management isn't due to individual brilliance as much as it is due to serendipity. The revolving door should spin, spin like the wind if necessary.

Don't want caps imposed? Don't ask the taxpayer to help you and run your company right. Pretty simple, really.

Now, at the other end of the equation, how about these Congresscritters stepping up to the plate and accepting their own culpability for undermining the free market with their own greedy little hands and power plays? How about we cap their pay at, oh, say $1.50/session? Sure, it's a generous salary and beyond what they deserve, but we really need to keep the best and the brightest around.

98 Of course, what you all missed is that I am willing to provide waivers to those who wish to make more than $500k, in return for "favors" to be named later.

99 Meh...if they want the Gubment teet, they have to be willing for a good screwing...I've no problem with it at all.

100 I can go along along with it if the logic is consistent. Let's cap the pay of hospital & college adminstrators that get government grants too. $300,000 seems a little excessive for Michelle Obama's old job.

101

#65: The ONLY individuals that have ANY right to "cap" the salaries OR bonuses of CEO's are the STOCKHOLDERS.

Well, thanks to George Bush, Ben Bernake, and Hammerin' (the American taxpayer in the ass) Hank Paulson, the American taxpayers are the stockholders of these companies. And our Board of Directors (Obama and Congress) have just voted to cap the salaries and bonuses.

If these CEOs don't like it, maybe they shouldn't have come running to DC for bailout $$$...

102

The real outrage here is not the capping of CEO pay - it's the raising of pay and office budgets by Congress of -

wait for it

-Congress.

103 96   Everybody who thinks this is a good idea, it seems you're forgetting that a lot of the problems with these banks were caused when Congress (with an assist from Bush) insisted, er, demanded, that they extend mortgages to people who had no business getting them. And don't try to tell me that the CEOs were stupid to go along with it......

Paulie,  

While I agree in principle with your statement(s), I did not hear ANY of these guys railing (on TV/Radio, etc.) against those in the Gubment that caused these problems.  They were SILENT then so they may as well STFU now.  If they didn't have the stones to band together when it mattered, they need not bother now when it's too f'in late.

104

103 While I agree in principle with your statement(s), I did not hear ANY of these guys railing (on TV/Radio, etc.) against those in the Gubment that caused these problems.  They were SILENT then so they may as well STFU now.  If they didn't have the stones to band together when it mattered, they need not bother now when it's too f'in late.

billy, congress had all these guys' balls in their hands. What were they supposed to do, put a commercial on primetime telling the American people that congress is basically blackmailing them? They DID STFU because they had no other choice - they could never win that P.R. battle last year, or now. The only thing anybody could do now is to get some former bank rep who had 1st hand knowledge of the dealings to spill the beans. But they'd probably never work in the industry again.

105 If you took the tax payers $$$$, then you are PWNED.  Get used to it.  And I concur, few of these 'Masters of the Universe' are worth what they are (were) getting paid. 

As for the bitching that 'We can't keep good people without paying them like this.', f*%k 'em.  If these people were so good, then the company wouldn't be in the shit.  Go ahead and leave.  I hear that Bear Stearns is hiring.  You'll fit right in.

Don't like it?  Then save your own damn company without putting me on the hook.  Figure it out, genius.

106 Waaaaahhh!  The evil Barney Frank demanded that we let mortgages to people that can't pay them!  Bullshit.  That does not relieve your firm from the responsibility of MANAGING YOUR PORTFOLIO.  Cap the risky mortgages at a low percentage, and protect your ass.  The banks could have made enough crap loans to keep Barney Fag off their ass without making all those zero disclosure, zero down 'liars loans'. 

And another thing, the banks have congress by the nuts as well.  Can you say 'campaign contributions', free jet rides, junkets, contributors outings?  Like all that congressman?  Then get off my company about making more crap loans.  We make enough.

Yes, it's a game, yes it's rigged.  Play the fu*#k'in game.  If these assholes wouldn't have gotten lazy and just rolled over, they'd still be flying off to Indonesia for underage poon tang on the corporate jet while wifey looks for a 4th vacation home in South America. 

107 Lemmi @85 "Maybe this is a stupid question but why doesn't the government just go to Wall Street and buy stock in these companies.  "

It's not a stupid question, in fact right now it's a very damn pertinent, relevant, and timely question ... but right now I don't trust myself to not answer it as if it was.  Let's just both be glad my delete key is working, while we hope for somebody smarter and nicer than me to lay this out for you. 
  Fellow morons?  Little help here? 

108 Honestly I think any company that went begging to the government for money deserves whatever they get.

109 "Honestly I think any company that went begging to the government for money deserves whatever they get."

That's fair.  But what about Bank of America and Citigroup?  They were highly solvent at the beginning of all this and strongarmed by the government into bailing out failing institutions and fucking their own balance sheets, and after that again pushed into being bailed out rather than begging.

110 Here is the quote from Obama: "For top executives to award themselves these kinds of compensation packages in the midst of this economic crisis is not only bad taste -- it's bad strategy -- and I will not tolerate it as president,"

He will not tolerate it.   That is the kind of language that makes me dread the next four years.

111 So Barry can't control congressional spending but now wants to control spending in the private sector?  OoooooooooooooooK.

112 So there are some good things about this. It removes incentives for firms to head to the trough, but what happens when Germany allows firms to pay execs 1,000,000? Guess who just became the dominant financial center? The government that wants to buy it.

Do not underestimate the importance of financial talent. Do not assume that the current shitstorm is attributable entirely to Wall St. Finally, do not underestimate the power of unintended consequences.

113 If you need me, you can reach me over at John Galt's place.

114 103 / 104  billy, congress had all these guys' balls in their hands. What were they supposed to do, put a commercial on primetime telling the American people that congress is basically blackmailing them? They DID STFU because they had no other choice - they could never win that P.R. battle last year, or now. The only thing anybody could do now is to get some former bank rep who had 1st hand knowledge of the dealings to spill the beans. But they'd probably never work in the industry again

Paulie, We'll agree to disagree (kind of)...and really, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.  I think that anyone now (who gains money from the Gubment), is beholden to Lord Obama and his Minions.  Student loans, Medicare, Welfare, Unemployment, pensions, auto workers, et al are now firmly on the teet of Obama.  He will now asign all persons their rightful wage in this brave new society of ours..ah, Socialism --what a foul, putrid smell it casts.

115 ..."This is America. We don't disparage wealth. We don't begrudge anybody for achieving success," Obama said. "But what gets people upset — and rightfully so — are executives being rewarded for failure. Especially when those rewards are subsidized by U.S. taxpayers."

Think I'll dovetail a quick thought.  Since the Nat Arts Endowment is asking for their (new) chunk of $, let's look at BO's quote from above in light of this.

I'm sure that, let's say Blue Man Group, probably sucked on the NAE teet for some stupid-ass grant when they were 'starving artists'...but hey, they hit the big time.  Touring troops, Vegas shows, etc...shouldn't we as taxpayers be looking for our payback from these no-talent fucks who made it big?  I mean, their rewards were subsidized by the US taxpayers, no?

116 One last thought -- I see the pendulum swinging back really hard in '10...no matter what Dipshit's Dog says...

117

He will not tolerate it.   That is the kind of language that makes me dread the next four years.

A few million in taxpayer dollars wasted by greedy fat-cats?  Intolerable.  But when Uncle Bootheel wants to spend a trillion on dog parks and local landscaping, well, then it's time to put away childish things and get with the fucking program.  For America.

118 Well, it fits the Democrat pattern, "Two dumbs make a smart."

119 When Henry Paulson first started handing out bailout money there were a lot of people cautioning that it was creating a moral hazard.  Why should companies be prudent if companies that took foolish risks would be bailed out by the government.

This is an incentive to pay back the government bailout money so that the CEOs can go back to making truly obscene compensation packages.

Salary caps is not a bad idea, although my first choice would be for the Senate to bring in company officers from companies that have taken bailout money from time to time, bend them over the tables and brutally sodomize them for the C-SPAN audience to watch.  Only problem with that idea is that they might turn into suicide bombers.

120

Can someone point out to me where the Constitution gives the government to do this?

 

I find this is rich comming from a man who recently dined on $100/pound steaks.

 

Why not just start with term limits instead.  The country would benefit from an end of our congressional royalty.

121 I just want to see that fuckhead terry moron and the rest of the nightline chumps get their salaries capped at 30k a year.  Wipe that smug look off his face.

122 Lemmiwinks @85 "Maybe this is a stupid question but why doesn't the government just go to Wall Street and buy stock in these companies. "

Artificially manipulating the stock market is just asking for more serious trouble than we already have.
1/ The government's track record as "an investor" kind of sucks the big suck.  You've seen the ridiculous evil wasteful bullshit that they want to spend a trillion nonexistent dollars on, in this stumbulous package, right?  Extrapolate that to the stock market, with government bureaucrats in the position of picking winners and losers.
2/ Unlike private investors, who are motivated by profit, the government is motivated entirely by electoral-political considerations.  Thus they can be relied on to make economically irrational decisions. 
3/ There is a built-in conflict of interest.  If the government is buying the stocks of failing companies, we taxpayers are being screwed.  If the government is buying the stocks of healthy companies, they are only over-inflating the prices of those stocks. 

" We could put in a provision that if the company starts turning a profit then the government needs to sell those stocks(responsibly, not sell all shares on a wednesday morning)."

4/ Worse yet, if the government is buying only unprofitable companies, then we are subsidizing failure and perpetuating it.
5/ And no, "we" can't put in any such provision.  Think about it: the part of government that's directly answerable to us, every two years, is Congress. 
5a/ If your plan calls for Congress to be making these purchases, they're going to have to vote on every purchase.
5b/ If your plan calls for some Congressionally-controlled bureaucracy to be making these purchases, you can expect that bureaucracy to be bound by guidelines that are completely idiotic.
5c/ If your plan calls for some new tentacle of the executive branch's Treasury Department to be making these purchases, you forfeit all accountability forever.  Bear in mind that last fall's TARP bill called for Paulson's discretion in purchasing toxic assets to be absolute, not even subject to judicial review.
 . 
" That way the government could always make recommendations and if they are the majority stock holder whatever they say goes."

6/ You say that like it's a good thing.  It is proven to be a bad thing.  Government held the whip hand at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac; whatever they said went.  You saw what they said, and you saw where it went.
6a/  If you missed it, here's what they said: "You WILL make ever greater volumes of lending available to My Constituents based on an ever-diminishing basis of repayment ability." 
6b/ If you missed it, here's where that went.  Right here where we are now.  Half a million of us are newly jobless.

The tax payers/voters could look at the government's portfolio and determine how good their government is performing.

7/ In ancient Athens, that might have been the deal, for six weeks or six years, until the whole "direct democracy" system epically failed.  In our representative form of democracy, the taxpaying voters only get any say-so about it at two year intervals, which is nowhere near enough to exert any meaningful control.

 " Their political opponents certainly will make an issue of it."

8/ The damage will already be in place, and some of it will be permanently in place.

This may seem like a harsh answer, but boy howdy, it's nothing like the first draft woulda been.

123 What the fuck. This is all fallout from that bullshit bailout that most conservatives rejected. Ace was on the wrong side of this one, which of course is rare.

Too big to fail? Who the fuck is small enough to fail? Get government out of markets.

Government needs to stop "fixing" shit and do what they're supposed to do: defense, borders and reasonable market regulation like SEC shit (monitoring assholes like Bernie Madoff).

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166 Certainly watches are Replica Watches used to help people record rolex Watches time, but rolex watches nowadays its functions have enlarged. Replica watches are now tag heuer Watches not only objects that tag heuer watches can tell you what time it is, they are also a status symbol. You should not feel strange when you find someone wearing a watch on his wrist, but use the cell phone to tell time. In that situation, the watch is just showing its luxurious function cartier watches. It is normal and cartier watches perhaps also happens to you. .If asked that among the watches of various brands, which one can suit your taste? There is no doubt that most people will choose Rolex. Whichever social class you are in, it is naturally Rolex was known breitling Watches and cherished breitling watches for a long time. However, the elements do not usually enter the market alone, always come with the price tag up to the hand. For this reason, many people, especially men, their dreams of luxury Rolex watches are buried in omega Watches his heart omega watches. What should I do? Rolex watches are simply stunning worn by the rich and famous, right? No, this world is not the world's richest men, is the world of each. All are equal before the search of luxury and be men's watches respected. Within men's watches, the law, when consumers are in the market, women's watches they should women's watches receive the same treatment. This is the real reason why replica Rolex watches are ladies watches ladies watches more welcome than Rolex. Because in this world are not difficult to understand that the rich are much less than people with low income, you agree with me? You are forced to nod and say with certainty that is the reality. These low-income people do not have enough money to save every month. They can not afford such luxury Rolex watches

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168 Factors Replica Watches About The Rolex replica watches Oyster The Oyster is so closely get in touch with Rolex, and it is inevitably that some people think these are the only Replica watches Rolex manufacture. Others suppose that there is a single Oyster watch. But as a matter of fact, the name Oyster does not actually meant for a rolex Watches particular watch you can buy rolex watches or even to a series but to a type of case that available in some of the Rolex ranges. History The Oyster case was first released in 1926. The objective was to protect the workings of the watch from dust and moisture. Early watches were far from waterproof. The Oyster tag heuer Watchescase was an tag heuer watches innovative design to eliminate these problems. It had a new double locking crown that screwed into place. It has been compared to the hatch on a submarine. Like a submarine, the Oyster case was waterproof. In 1927 Mercedes Gleitze swam the English breitling Watches Channel breitling watches . Before she set off she was presented with a Rolex Oyster. When she arrived, the watch was still working perfectly. The resulting publicity gave the new case a massive boost. Why is it called Oyster? Legend has it that Hans cartier Watches Wilsdorf cartier watches, who invented the Oyster, chose the name because the new case reminded him of the difficulty he had experienced prising open oysters at dinner. Since then the Oyster has further, particularly advanced. Many Oyster watches today are omega Watches perpetual-self-winding, in other omega watches words, it does not require to expose the mechanism to the outside world in order to wind it. The Osyter Perpetual is one of the toughest, most durable, most reliable watches (under truly adverse conditions). It is probably the best mechanical watch money can buy.