1 It's time for the government to enact Directive 10-289!  Or rather, it won't be long before they do.  We're in deep trouble.

2 Popcorn time.

3 Drew meet choir.

Choir, Drew.

Do we even have a fucking media anymore?  (sigh)  Never mind.

4 let's call the whole thing off.

5 C'mon people, he's the PRESIDENT - he is smarter than all of us. Read the 'People's History of the United States', that book will fuckin blow your mind.

6 Opposing the stimulus is the highest form of patriotism.

7

A billion here, a billion there and eventually you're talking about real money.

8 It's a sad day when the 'reasonable' plan is "only" 400 billion.  It wasn't too long ago that Democrats loved Republicans who were willing to spend that much.

9 Once again: the Dems have all the votes they need to pass this. If it's such a great idea, why are they so torqued about getting Republican support?

10

It's a clever idea to minimize the differences rhetorically, makes it look like the Republicans are killing the country's hope of recovery over petty issues.

 

Yes, and like Bill Clinton and the recent campaign the media will trumpet that message constantly straight from the commiecrat talking papers. Hell, they got the public to believe it was Gingrich’s fault that Clinton shut down the government. The got a lot of the public to believe that repeal of Glass-Steagle caused the banking collapse. Those are two of the biggest lies in history but they pulled it off.

 

What I am hoping is that the public is finally wising up to the media. I think they jumped the shark so bad during the election that even some of the liberals started smelling a rat and this blatant lying will no longer have an impact.

 

Also, what I am hoping for is that Republicans fight this bill tooth and nail. O’Connel said at his press conference that they wanted a bill, but that the current bill was not going to work.

 

I would settle for a bill that made the Bush tax cuts permanent and also added the reduction in rates to 10% they were talking about. I would not support ANY more bailouts and ANY more welfare spending of any kind.

 

And I especially don’t want to see Republicans sign up for more of that regardless of these phony compromises.

11

Curse those Replublicans and all those darn "distractions!"

12 Obama really believes we're idiots.  Apparently, he's right.

13 Posted by: Bald Ninja at February 02, 2009 02:04 PM (4pdbX)

I'm not in favor of spending $400 billion but I'll take that much in tax cuts all day, every day.

It likely won't 'cost' anything when more revenue starts coming in from increased economic activity.

14 Obama says that "very modest differences" should not get in the way...

This is like saying the difference between normative sex and bestiality is just a pair of limbs.

15 The alternate stimulus plan by the House Republicans has good ideas in it. I work for a small business and my husband is a small business owner and there will be direct, positive impacts for us if even some of those proposals are implemented.

16 Obama really believes we're idiots.  Apparently, he's right.

Posted by: Jimmy at February 02, 2009 02:09 PM (/Ft4q)

Well, he knows that 54% of the voters are either idiots or socialists.

17

The Republican plan sure beats the hell out of Obama's plan. I'm fucking thrilled we've managed to stall it this long. One week ago we were all completely fucked and the U.S.S.A. had arrived. I'm thinking this is a step in the right direction. I hope it keeps going.

18 "I'm not in favor of spending $400 billion but I'll take that much in tax cuts all day, every day.

It likely won't 'cost' anything when more revenue starts coming in from increased economic activity."

Don't get me wrong - the Republicans plan is much much better than the Democrats...and I'd take that much in tax cuts as well...though I'm not sure how much of that 400 billion 'spending' is tax cuts (I am a moron after all).

How much of the Republican plan is actual tax cut?

19 nuance

20 Posted by: Bald Ninja at February 02, 2009 02:14 PM (4pdbX)

See the link in my addition to the post. Short answer...all of it was tax cuts.

21 Posted by: DrewM. at February 02, 2009 02:19 PM (hlYel)

Thanks.

22 OMG #14, you are hysterically funny today.

23

Assimilation is the goal. It's not enough for The One's administration to pass legislation over objection; it won't be vindicated or satisfied until thourough ideological conversion is completed. As long as there's one Republican legislator calling foul on Hope And Change, The One's work remains unfinished.

It's kinda like a jerk quarterback in school. He loves having the cloying attention of the girls and the respect of the guys, but he's not satisfied until that little group--the group who completely lacks interest in the hero-worship going on around them--he won't be sated until that one group gives him props. At present, that vocal group is Rush Limbaugh and the House GOP.

I've found in my neighborhood of hard-blue zombies that simply stating that you're a Republican--and not engaging in any further discussion--will get every Birks-wearing Volvo-driving composter in one's grill pronto, trying to talk you into conversion. Twice I've been asked if I'm "at least a moderate Republican," to which the deliciously simple answer is, "well, no. Not at all."  

 

24 Barfulus. Thank you for nothing, Senator McConnell.

Under the mortgage plan, any ”credit-worthy borrower” could get a government-backed loan at 4 percent. Details were not available, but Republicans have talked about having the government guarantee the 30-year loans for a year or two. Thirty-year fixed rates recently have been around 5 percent.
No cost estimates were available for the McConnell plan.

Gosh, all this time I kept hearing that too much easy credit led the Nation Below Canada to spend recklessly. How wrong I was. Thank God McConnell is on the same page as Lord Unicorn.

25

Well, he knows that 54% of the voters are either idiots or socialists.

That isn't an either-or proposition.

26 Tax cuts don't "cost" anything. Don't use that terminology. Once you start, you accept their premise.

27 I am waiting for our grandkids to say this was taxation without representation. A bunch of boomers are taxing their grandkids to make their life easier?

28 #16 - There's a difference between idiots and socialists? Who wudda thunk it.

29 hmmmm...
You're scaring the goose crap out of me today, with some of your news items. Holy Peter on a treadmill, we are so fucked.

30 When do the baby boomers start partaking from Social Security? 2011? It's going to be a meltdown for the ages.

31

A billion here, and a trillion here, and pretty soon you are NO LONGER talking about real money.

Hope. Change. Hyperinflation!

32 Those word "credit worthy borrower"...will be the words that prevent the very people who need the help from getting it.

33

That isn't an either-or proposition.

Posted by: sherlock at February 02, 2009 02:23 PM (8V5Ut)

True enough.  All socialists are idiots.  I was going under the assumption that not all idiots were socialist...just, well, idiots.

34 Does anyone else worry that $400B worth of tax cuts might actually turn the US economy white-hot?  Not a good thing.  How about a "measly" $50B or so of tax cuts?

35 REPORTED ON CNBC, quoting Obama:

"Now is not a time for profits on Wall Street."

You may draw your own conclusions.

(Reposted from the sweater thread.)

36 34 Does anyone else worry that $400B worth of tax cuts might actually turn the US economy white-hot?  Not a good thing.  How about a "measly" $50B or so of tax cuts?

Posted by: sherlock at February 02, 2009 02:27 PM (8V5Ut)

Cut the corporate tax rate in half and then stay the hell out of the way.

37 Hey, I got an idea, how about screw the "stimulus package" and let people keep more of their money by reducing taxes. Also, how about not printing billions thereby preventing the type of inflation we saw with that moron Jimmy Carter. Just a freaking thought.

38 A little early, but I'm dusting off the phrase "miserable failure"... should be able to use it in 10.... 9..... 8....

39

The entire microeconomic meltdown within my own checkbook would easily be completely mitigated with a "paltry" $1.0B.

What do you say, Uncle Sam?

40 "It's a sad day when the 'reasonable' plan is "only" 400 billion.  It wasn't too long ago that Democrats loved Republicans who were willing to spend that much." -- Bald Ninja above @ 8

Taking less out of my pocket is NOT spending money. It means the US government would either have to debt finance or spend less. But not taking tax revenue is not spending.

It's not the government's fucking money. It is my money. And it is your money.

41

"REPORTED ON CNBC, quoting Obama:

"Now is not a time for profits on Wall Street."

You may draw your own conclusions."

 

Conclusion #2

"I want liberal garbage like Barack Obama's socialist policies to fail." - Rush Limbaugh

"I want responsible investors like those who listen to Rush Limbaugh to fail." - Barack Obama

42 The nice thing this comparison we don't have to worry about the stupid liberal dodge, that tax cuts "cost" the government money. Even if it were true, $478 billion "costs" less than $800 to-whatever-we-feel-like billion.

43 Please! Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who!

44 "Ach, Alta! Wo sind meine Milliarden Mark?"

Just thought I'd get ready for the monetization of Hope and Change.

45 Is there any particular reason that the MSM is not even remotely discussing the Republican proposal?
/ sarc

Looks like a damn good plan to me. Too bad that the only thing anyone is allowed to talk about is Porkulus. I am also disappointed the the Republicans are talking about "improvements" to Porkulus (which cannot be improved, other than to down it in a well and ram it up Pelosi's ass) and not pushing their plan.

46

Remember that the word "economy" is a loaded term now - it means business enterprise that exists under the government umbrella.  The stimulus isn't meant for business - it's mean for the larger "economy," i.e., the umbrella.  Yeah, so under this swallowed assumption, why quibble over little details, right?

Anyone here think you can trace this thinking to the "promote the general welfare" clause of our Constitution's Preamble?

47

Drew,

You're speaking the language of liberals.  Tax cuts don't "cost" the government anything.  It's OUR MONEY.  There are expected revenue decreases, which might be offset by increased economic activity. 

Don't speak their language. 

48 "REPORTED ON CNBC, quoting Obama:

"Now is not a time for profits on Wall Street."

I assume he wants to extend this insight to Hollywood and the NBA.

49 Hey, they need to treat this like a government contract, TO THE LOWEST BIDDER!!!!!  Tax cuts wins!!!

50 This has got to be the stupidest idea I have ever heard. The stimulus plan has a provision for the feral government to buy nearly new low gas mileage trucks & SUVs & crush them.

Somebody please tell me this is a joke.

 

51 Drew & Sydney Carton - OFF the Unicorn/Skittles list. So says the Queen. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!

52

That would be federal government of course.

Sheesh.

53 Not to worry, #52.  A FERAL government is next.

54 #50
So, just how far are we from eliminating unemployment by hiring half to dig ditches, and the other half to fill them?

Dumbest Administration Evah.

55 Jimmy @ 46,

Yep, Dems forget that the preamble calls for "provide for the common defense" and "promote the general welfare".

Instead, they seem to read, "promote the general defense" and "provide the general welfare."

56 Hey let's just pass this, I've got to get home for Presidents' Day break so I can "service" my constituents.

57

I'm going back to work tomorrow!

Nyah Nyah!

58 It's time for the government to enact Directive 10-289! Or rather, it won't be long before they do. We're in deep trouble.

You're mistaken on the order number. Next up is Order 66, after which it becomes Emperor Obama.

But, yes, we are in deep trouble.

59

In the Kingdom of the Blind, the One-Eyed man is King.

Meet my leetle frien Johnson.

60 "I am a law only for my kind, I am no law for all."

Thus Spake Obamathustra, from "Shit Friedrich Nietzsche Might Have Written"

61 Why are we not kicking their doors in and grabbing the bastards by their ties yet?

I am not kidding.

62 Well, he has to have some kind of meeting on the economy, some kind of presidential summit.   At this point all the stakeholders are blaming all the other stakeholders and nothing is getting done.  The people need to be represented not by their "representatives" but by real, honest to goodness, regular people.  People nee to talk and think and talk and think some more.

I mean Macy's just cut their dividend folks, this is not good.

63 But the Democrat plan has Judy Greer's stamp of approval.
I'm torn.

64

Michelle was just on MSDNC touting the stimulus, and all the addtional benefits she will bestow on young children with the millions that will be made available. She also said there will be money there for teachers to keep their jobs during the downturn in the economy. She raved about the new leader "Obama".  Just like that, no President Obama, or my husband, just Obama.

Great news!!! Obama wants to be one word ....think Prince, Madonna, Cher,....

What a commie.

65 Executive Order #66?  Is that the  liquidation of the 25,000,000 or so Americans that refuse to re-educated according to Bill Ayers? 

66 Why are they surprised that loan demand is weakening?   Maybe Americans are going back to what their grand parents taught them "if you don't have the cash it means you can't buy it"  period.

67 Please don't fall for the "do something" disease. We don't have regular people aboard Congress, we have a ship of fools. I'd sooner trust the fickle tides than giving the rudder to Obozo The Clown and the Pirates of Pennsylvania Avenue.

68

Now Obama will try to convince you that you haven't lost your job yet, because he has taken measure to preserve it...you now owe him. This will work with some people.

 

69 You morons can just forget it. You are getting a tax cut.
You would just spend it on booze, Viagra and guns. Ain't happening.

70

Is there any particular reason that the MSM is not even remotely discussing the Republican proposal?
/ sarc

Oh they are.  With the headline,  "Republicans want elimination of Buy American Clause."  I'm surprised the article I read mentioned "trade war" in it.  It even had a Canadian minister talking about retaliatory action if it went through.  But you would have to do more than read the headline to know it.

71 Aren't getting a tax cut.

72 50 This has got to be the stupidest idea I have ever heard. The stimulus plan has a provision for the feral government to buy nearly new low gas mileage trucks & SUVs & crush them.

Somebody please tell me this is a joke.

Will they be crushed under Obama's withering glower of disapproval?

73 But he really CARES....

74 The trucks and SUVs will be crushed under the direction of our new Secretary of Arts Michael Jackson and then the we will sell them at a huge profit as Art. I expect we could balance the budget this year.

75 "Let's not bicker and argue about 'oo killed 'oo..."

76

67-  I articulated your sentiment much better back before I was dead.."I'd rather be governed by the first 2000 names in the phone book.".....or words to that effect.

No prob.

Bill

77 President Obama has the hugest, throbbing stimulus plan I have ever see.
I practically choked on it. Just ask Alan, he watched.

78 "29 hmmmm...
You're scaring the goose crap out of me today, with some of your news items. Holy Peter on a treadmill, we are so fucked.  Posted by: George Orwell at February 02, 2009 02:25 PM (AZGON)" 
Oh, I'm so sorry, that is certainly not my intent at all.  I really do feel that there are so many points of view here and that this is such a serious and important subject that the more you know, the better will be the solution.  sort of like that suit guy always says, something about an educated buyer being his best customer.  

79 Just make sure it's not the first 2000 names in the Manhattan phone book.

80 #78
The scary part is there are some very definite points of view in the White House and in the offices of Pelosi and Reid. They're falling entirely within the category of "Command Economies, and How to Enslave Its Members."

81 Come on, Drew, this is great news. Because if all the differences are minor, and nothing that should stand in the way of this vitally needed bill, then clearly the Democrats should have no problem with "compromising", and accepting the Republican version of the stimulus.

No?

82

Who gives a fuck, as long as I get my piece of the action?

83

Thus Spake Obamathustra, from "Shit Friedrich Nietzsche Might Have Written"

Ha! Nice. Now I want to watch "2001" for some odd reason.

84 if all the differences are minor, and nothing that should stand in the way of this vitally needed bill, then clearly the Democrats should have no problem with "compromising"

We have a winner! It's this simple, clear thinking that somehow, astonishingly, eludes the MSM. Now, why could that be?

85 <i> The stimulus plan has a provision for the feral government to buy nearly new low gas mileage trucks & SUVs & crush them.</i>

Why can't I find that on Stimuluswatch.org?

86 Damn it, H&R Block, get out of my computer!!!

87 Obama needs the R's to get on board.  That way, when the plan tanks, he can say, "Well, the R's agreed with me that this would work."  He's trying to cover his ass.  That's all it is.

88 Now is not a time for profits on Wall Street.

That's an easy prediction. 

One of my bank stocks is now at 1% of its IPO price of 3 years ago.  I'm going to double down on it, its not like it will cost me much.

89

87

His is a whole lot easier to cover than that beast Mish's.  Dammit!  BM everytime I think of her.  BRB!

90 I'll tell you what needs to be done.  The government needs to give all households of exactly 4 a million dollars.  Also, the father's name must start with a K. 

That's the key to recovery people.  Who's with me?

91 23 Assimilation is the goal.

Here's a lesson I learned from my Grandfather from Communist Poland:

When they come and tell you that you won't get any government benefits at all unless you join the Obamaparty, smile and join. Then use the money you're sucking out of them to fund the Resistance.

92 I'll tell you what needs to be done.  The government needs to give all households of exactly 4 a million dollars.  Also, the father's name must start with a K. 

That's the key to recovery people.  Who's with me?

Posted by: Kevin at February 02, 2009 03:50 PM (8uBBu)

Finally...a great plan I can get behind.

93

Heh. An interstate bridge in Moline, Ill. needs to be replaced. The cost, according to the Stimulus Package: $950,000,000.00. To qoute a resident:

"A billion $ to replace a bridge?? Is it golden?"

94 The government needs to give all households of exactly 4 a million dollars.

Heh.  I'm currently arguing about this pork-laden pile of crap stimulus package with a liberal friend of mine. I mentioned one of the projects on  the list, which is a $600million construction project to build a museum.  Jobs created; 65.

I jokingly said we could save $535million by simply giving those 65people a million each and forget about building the stupid museum.

He actually, seriously agreed and said it would be fantastic idea to just give everyone in the country a million dollars, cause then we'd all be rich.

Intelligence and Liberalism are like oil and water.

95 I really can't understand why republicans aren't harping on the fact that this isn't a stimulus plan at all.  It spends less than 10% of the money in the first year.

If they emphasized that they wanted 100% of the spending/tax cuts to apply to the first year, then they would have a true stimulus plan, and would have very clear differences with Obama.  Lets get this fact into the public mind! 

96 "Tomato/Tomahto?"

You say tomato, I say FUCK YOU!

97

You know, John McMaverick's concept in the second(?) debate of "bring every non-essential aspect of federal government to a screeching halt, and then slowly turn them back on one by one as we find the money to fund them" really isn't sounding half bad right about now.

Put the scalpel down, Obama.  Now is the time to take a machete to your stimulus package.

98 Does else find it odd that a lot of this stuff is like a flat 5 mil.  It's just weird, you would think they could predict, to the penny even, what this stuff will cost.

99 The stimulus plan has a provision for the feral government to buy nearly new low gas mileage trucks & SUVs & crush them.

If the crushing is via snarling, leaded-gas fueled, CO2-belching monster trucks, I might be able to compromise here.

100 And while we are railing about this, they are working hard on the problem.  For them, the problem is not the economy, it is how to sell this piece of shit to the majority of the country.

101

You know, John McMaverick's concept in the second(?) debate of "bring every non-essential aspect of federal government to a screeching halt, and then slowly turn them back on one by one as we find the money to fund them" really isn't sounding half bad right about now.

Problem is that liberals think that the military and law enforcement are non-essential

102 "Please stop telling me I'm speaking like a liberal" is even more "speaking like a liberal" than the tax crap was. Stop doing that.

103

Problem is that liberals think that the military and law enforcement are non-essential

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at February 02, 2009 04:26 PM (Nwbo

Except to the extent that it is government employment.  The Border Patrol is hiring in big numbers now.  Why now, after all the uproar.  I don't hear anyone in Congress talking down illegals.  Perhaps they will have a greater need to keep people in than keep them out.  The first thing Mao did was close the borders.

104 The stimulus plan has a provision for the feral government to buy nearly new low gas mileage trucks & SUVs & and crush them.

If they want'em to vanish, just park'em on the Cross Bronx Expressway.  They'll be stripped to the bare bones in about a half hour.

105

Per Newsbusters, the host of Mad Money, Tom Cramer on Obama's Anti-Wall Street Comments: 'We Heard Lenin.'

106 "103

Problem is that liberals think that the military and law enforcement are non-essential

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at February 02, 2009 04:26 PM (Nwbo

Except to the extent that it is government employment.  The Border Patrol is hiring in big numbers now.  Why now, after all the uproar.  I don't hear anyone in Congress talking down illegals.  Perhaps they will have a greater need to keep people in than keep them out.  The first thing Mao did was close the borders.

Posted by: Hayao at February 02, 2009 04:30 PM (hn6ao)"

What?

107 Just had to look at what Austin, TX wants out of the stimulus package....Among a long list of crap, they threw in almost a million dollars for another disc golf course!

108 @105, Is this the Jim Cramer clip they are talking about:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/#28975919

109 I need confirmation or info on something: the Obama "tax cuts" are they actually tax cuts or a rebate? I know that the people who aren't paying any taxes now are getting an effective rebate, but is that forever, or just a one time thing? Some of the tax cuts he has planned are going to reduce a lot of poorer peoples' effective tax burden to zero. Is that permanent?

See, the GOP plan would be permanent, but a tax rebate just doesn't make much difference in terms of economic stimulus.

110 @109 "the Obama "tax cuts" are they actually tax cuts or a rebate? I know that the people who aren't paying any taxes now are getting an effective rebate, but is that forever, or just a one time thing? Some of the tax cuts he has planned are going to reduce a lot of poorer peoples' effective tax burden to zero. Is that permanent? "

Obama's OWN "tax cuts" that he burbled on about during the campaign, and that weren't going to ever happen in any case, were the cash-transfer thing.  Obama's post-election tax cuts, in the Pelosi-drafted stumbulus bill look to BE actual tax cuts, but only for low-income (hardly-any-tax-paying) tax payers.  Still, it's an improvement over the crap he WAS peddling last fall.

111 Tom...Jim...you know...that really loud guy!  :p

112 It's not about public work projects or infrastructure rebuilding or improvement. It all comes down to how much money can we spend/steal without doing anything...You see, if we never solve the problems, we can just keep throwing money at them. The government in California along with the Federal Transportation Administration studied the BART to the Airport Project for twenty years. They spent more money on the studies than it would have cost to build the damn thing originally. It was in the original concept construction plans. That story is replicated thousands of time around the country. America is littered with highways to nowhere and snowplow equipment and buildings to store them in at airports that never see a flake of snow from one year to another. We have projects, but first we have studies and commissions on which to spend enormous amount of money.....This new group in Washington are past Masters at the commission  and studies game. A friend of mine is going to Washington tomorrow to get several Billion dollars. For a study on a plan that already has federal/state funding and bonds issued to build a commuter railroad. They already have the project in place with construction commencing in about 6 months. Now Washington wants him to do a total long range assessment and expansion study for future funding.....With a cost guide line of approximately 1.5 to 2.5 Billion...The whole damn railroad will only cost less than 2 Billion with all the equipment and construction...And so it goes.....These stimulus programs are great ways to screw the taxpayers..

113

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, lord it's hard to be humble

     When your perfect in every way......

Come on, sing it with me peasants!

114

15 The alternate stimulus plan by the House Republicans has good ideas in it. I work for a small business and my husband is a small business owner and there will be direct, positive impacts for us if even some of those proposals are implemented.---

And for that very reason, they won't be included. Narcissistic Personality Disorder can not admit they were wrong or that someone else had a better idea than he did. NPD Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others;

115

 I need confirmation or info on something: the Obama "tax cuts" are they actually tax cuts or a rebate

 

The answer is Both. That being said the actual “tax cuts” are primarily targets at low income people who don’t pay taxes. This will be done via the EIC and other “children’s allowances”. Everyone below 75K (150 dual) will once again get the 500/1000 “rebate” as a one time shot. Businesses will get a tax break for some previous losses and for hiring “disconnected youths”.  A new type of defined welfare class. (Older than 16 and younger than 25, not in school and not working).

 

I haven’t gone through all the tax provisions but it appears that they are just like the spending provisions, targeted towards welfare.

116

seriously what the fuck is wrong with you people??? the republican proposal?? how about doing nothing at all???? no more spending period....maybe some spending cuts... i know i'm fucking out of my mind but how many times can you kick a dog before it bites you? there is a reason why know one can answer that question.

 

 

117

"* Cut the lowest two income tax rates for 2009 and 2010, from 15 percent to 10 percent and from 10 percent to 5 percent."  If we must do a "stimulus," I could easily live with this.  But Dems are going to attack taxcuts as "more of the same old failed Bush policies."

118 Hannity just had a clip of Barney Frank from over the weekend, can't believe I missed it. Admitted HALF the plan isn't stimulus at all - just going to help people who "have been damaged thru no fault of their own." At least that's what I think Barney said; it's hard to tell he's so difficult to understand, slurring his words the way he does. Man, he must be impossible to understand when he has a dick in his mouth...

119

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121

So in a household, corporate and public sector "crisis" of too much debt and irresponsible spending, we now have the unwinding underway:  asset (housing and stock) values decline and household's adjust to lower spending and more savings.  Take a look at historical charts.  We as a nation have never before been at this level of GDP/debt in all these sectors.  The process now underway was inevitable.  The result is a temporary recession, if government fixes its own house, as balance sheets get rebuilt.

 

But, returning to the real world, one party wants to solve a debt and spending spree... with more debt and spending.  Surely you jest.  The other party is only 50% better:  it apparently likes the increasing the public sector debt part, but can muster some discipline on the spending side.  The long term answer is - Neither!  My investment advisor just sent me an e-mail telling me how he's working on his gardening and canning skills.  Uh, oh.  Regression to the mean is going to be a b*tch, but you better get used to it.

122 Want to do the task that TARP was supposedly designed for?
Really?
Because obviously this administration and Congress DON'T want to, but say you were them, and you DO want to ... what do you do?
Here's whatcha do:
Declare a permanent tax holiday on
(a) all capital gains derived from houses bought in foreclosure during 2008 and/or 2009, and
(b) all rental income derived from such houses.
Bingo.  The bad mortgages underlying the toxic tranches of the tainted MBSes get bought out, case by case, by private individuals and private corporations, without any further abuse of Uncle Sam's line of credit.
Easy.  Simple.  Neat.  Quick.
  And never ever gonna happen.

123 Oh!
Just in case anybody actually still IS reading this thread, and gets the mistaken idea that I was smart enough to have thought of that idea, no no, that idea was stolen by me from Bob Brinker.  He may have the world's most boring radio show, but damn if he doesn't do some top-notch thinking every now and then.

124 If we can make everyone think it's Rush Limbaugh's fault then we can slip in a few more billion in spending and the top 98% of Americans won't even know the difference.

125

I pledge allegiance to the stimulus and the united states of socialism and to the government for which is corrupt; One nation under Obama, unemployment, with welfare and higher taxes for all.

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