1 Of course the RNC will vote in Dawson. Why would we expect them to make any half-intelligent decisions? It'll be a good way to piss away any interest we might get for standing up to the Generational Theft Act.

2 Bloody hell - Steele better win.

3 No. Not really. They're not really going to choose Dawson.

Seriously. No one is that stupid, right?

Right?

4 If Katon Dawson becomes RNC chair, I'm changing my voter registration to Indep/not answered.

5 INsane

6 The RNC is that stupid..so damn stupid...C'mon make a deal already and for the love of God, do not elect Dawson.

7 Charges of racism will be leveled at whoever wins. They're Republicans, and they deserve it.

8 That was the 4th ballot, actually, wasn't it?

9

In other news Joey the retard will be heading up Barry's middle class warfare task force.

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama signed a series of executive orders Friday that he said should "level the playing field" for labor unions in their struggles with management.

Obama also used the occasion at the White House to announce formally a new White House task force on the problems of middle-class Americans. He named Vice President Joe Biden as its chairman.

"I do not view the labor movement as part of the problem. To me, it's part of the solution," he said. "You cannot have a strong middle class without a strong labor movement."

The president and vice president said the task force will include the secretaries of commerce, education, labor, and health and human services because those Cabinet departments have the most influence on the well-being of the middle class. It also will include White House advisers on the economy, the budget and domestic policy.

 

Full blown depression here we come.

10 I'll be re-registering if Dawson is elected, as well.  The fact that he's even in the running is horseshit.

11 A Steele victory would prove troublesome also, seeing as he's from the RINO wing of the party.

12 So why didn't Blackwell drop out and throw his support behind Steele?

13 Steele is not as much RINO as Colin Powell was.

Steele is not that bad of a guy. And watch Blackwell put his support behind Steele.

14 President Barack Obama signed a series of executive orders Friday that he said should "level the playing field" for labor unions in their struggles with management.

So, they'll be subject to RICO?  How about anti-trust legislation?

15

 So why didn't Blackwell drop out and throw his support behind Steele?

Because Blackwell's a conservative?

16 A Steele victory would prove troublesome also, seeing as he's from the RINO wing of the party.

Preferable to handing the Democrats and the MSM a weapon like Dawson.

17

watch Blackwell put his support behind Steele.

Why would he want to do that?

Steele is not as much RINO as Colin Powell was.

Have you ever heard the expression "damning with faint praise"?

18 If dawson wins, I will leave the republican party and we might as well embrace socialism because the republican party will be dead.

19 Those fuckers will never learn. They keep this kind of nonsense up, the GOP will stand no chance of ever regaining control of the Congress or POTUS. McCain's treachery was bad enough - this is ridiculous.

20 Yes, nominate the tone-deaf paleocon for party chair, that'll just be lovely.

Thanks, RNC.

21

Preferable to handing the Democrats and the MSM a weapon like Dawson.

What weapon? You people are pussywhipped. Just surrender already.

22 I'd rather have Zo as RNC.

23 What weapon? You people are pussywhipped. Just surrender already.

How about a nice hearty go to hell for that one?

24 This is what's wrong with the GOP. Everybody plays the game with one eye on winning the approval of the leftards in the MSM.

25 It'd be over.  We'd be hand the Dems a gun and telling them to shoot us.

"So, Chairman Dawson, is there any chance perhaps you could put in a good recommendation for me at Forest Lake?"

- Obama on National TV.

Game over man, game over.

26 This is what's wrong with the GOP. Everybody plays the game with one eye on winning the approval of the leftards in the MSM.

This isn't about winning MSM approval.  It's about standing on the principle that our leaders shouldn't be effing morons.

And I apologize for my 3:02 post.

27 Fox hasa bigger screen and their about 5 - 10 sec. ahead of CSPAN.

28 i was under the impression that Steele was a true conservative, if he's not i'd really like to know, but i need some proof...

29

It's about standing on the principle that our leaders shouldn't be effing morons.

How is Dawson a fucking moron?

30 How is Dawson a fucking moron?

Spending over a decade in a whites-only club isn't all that bright.

31 And blackwell just endorsed steele.

32 It beginning to look a lot like Steele.

33 The Republicans need to come up with some hard chargers fast or I am looking elsewhere.

34 Blackwell dropped out and endorsed Steele......

35 Nominating Dawson is the definition of insanity.

36

Shit, I feel like I am playing Russian Roulette.

37 "So, Chairman Dawson, is there any chance perhaps you could put in a good recommendation for me at Forest Lake?"

"They'll need to see your college transcripts, but I'm sure they'll use the same standards that got you into Harvard Law."

38 Who the fuck is Dawson anyways? 

And who are the people voting on this?

39 someone please tell me where Steele falls down as a conserv? He's had my moral support for a while now and i was hoping he could play a larger part in the party leadership but if he's pro-amnesty or some other such nonsense i want to know so that i can stop supporting him...

40 All i know is that Chuck-U Schumer had his goons pry in to the credit records of Steele, so that makes it a +1 Mana in my book for Steele.

41 It's just like the Presidential primary, they all suck. Or rather, no one has broad appeal, and if someone says so, its manufactured. 

42 Yeah I have no idea why people are calling Steele a RINO, he is far from it.

43 While Steele isn't perfect (and who is?) he's a much better choice than Dawson. For one, it immediately elminates the "You're opposed to Obama's plan to [x]? YOU RACIST!" argument from the infantile Left.

44 Just announced Duncan and Blackwell pulled out - Blackwell endorsing Steele.

45 Yay! I pulling for Steele, he's pretty awesome.

46 I know squat about Dawson, but this "somewhat troublesome"  story is just tiresome BS.

But I ask you, Who said this?

"I support the current system[affirmative action] and improvements to the current system, keeping in mind that while we have done very well in affirmative action at our universities across this country,"

Or who answered a quetion thusly?

Q: Do you think the time for affirmative action is past?

A: Absolutely not. We're just beginning to rediscover what we should be doing with affirmative action. Don't look at our universities. We got that. Let's look at our boardrooms, let's look at the management structure.

That would be this board's current heartthrob Michael Steele.

I'm cannot decide which I find more offensive, membership in an all-white golf club(freedom of association) or a staunch advocate of Affirmative Action(real, legal discrimination).

47 How do I insert a link correctly? I keep getting errors. I found the list with bio's of committee members...

48 And who are the people voting on this?

National committee members from each state.

49

"So, Chairman Dawson, is there any chance perhaps you could put in a good recommendation for me at Forest Lake?"
"Maybe after Kleagle Senator Byrd gets you back from that cross burning, Mr. President."

50 Dammit....I was pulling for Blackwell, who it appears, is more conservative than Steele. Not feelin' any other candidate.

51 Kirk

WORD TO HIGHLIGHT

52 Heaven help us if Steele wins.  He's a RINO and a gun grabber.

53 Steele could bust the records issue in the Donks ass, especially with Schumer (the fucking cocksucker that he is)...Dawson is a fucking idiot for the "whites only" club issue. 

The GOP needs to get a set and beat the economy/shit sandwich over the Donks ass for the next 18 months (for House and Senate elections in '10)...Steele can be holding a grudge and be the GOP's version of Howard Dean (polarize the middle ground against the Donks) and maybe go after some of the Donk and RINO seats.  Maybe Steele will be the one to help flush some of the turds out of DC...

54

"A: Absolutely not. We're just beginning to rediscover what we should be doing with affirmative action. Don't look at our universities. We got that. Let's look at our boardrooms, let's look at the management structure."

 

this does trouble me, A.A. is an abomination of freedom, every conserv knows this instinctively... anything else?

55 Sorry Kirk.
LEFT CARAT a href="http://ace.mu.nu/" RIGHT CARAT word you want to have hyperlinked LEFT CARAT /a RIGHT CARAT

56 Here is the RNC Member list

57 Alternatively, Kirk, go to HotAir's comment section -- make your link there then paste the code for it here (that's what I do).

58 Damnit, I meant to type PARTIAL member list.

59

gun grabber too? ..... anything to back this up?

 

 

60 >> 48 >> And who are the people voting on this?
>> National committee members from each state.


This kind of explains some things.

I think it would be good to change the way that the Rep. party is run to be a bit more populist rather than such a bureaucratic process. 

We wonder how the people in charge of the Republican party can be so out of touch with the base, well, maybe it's partly because the head is elected by people who are elected by people who are appointed by people who are elected by people who are appointed.

61

If it ain't broke don't fix it.  Antithesis; If it is broke, fix it and the Republican party is broke.  Ken Blackwell, throw your support behind Steele and take a secondary leadership position.  Ken, I think your great and you have already taken too many for the team but your not going to win this one anyway.  Deal and retain an influencial position. Dan Keith

62 Steele does not own a gun but I have not heard him say anything to indicate that he favors gun control ala the Dems.

63 Youre late Dan...

64 Steele ahead by 10

65 Steele 79
Dawson 69
Whosiwhat 20 something.

66

How do I insert a link correctly? I keep getting errors. I found the list with bios of committee members...
First, Kirk, go to tinyurl.com and "translate" the page's URL into a tiny.url; then highlight the text in the comment you've typed that you want to have show the link, and hit the link button; when it pops up, in the long box under "Source" at the top right side (and not in the short box on the left), paste the tinyurl into it, then hit the "Insert" button at the bottom right-hand corner; then hit "OK" (or something like that) when the second pop-up appears. The linking text in your comment should look highlighted (and underlined too, IIRC) in blue. Post and it should be okay.

67 5th round - Steele 79, Dawson 69, Anuzis 20

68 What did she just say the vote was?

69 Steele 79, Dawson 69, Anuzis 20

70 I don't like Steele's affirmative action stand, but whatever.  He seems like he'd be better than what we've currently got.  And he can call out Obama and not be labeled a racist.

71 sorry about the echo 

72 Time for Anuzis to pull out.

73 What I want to know is:

On what planet is 85 "a majority" of 79 + 69 + 20?

74 Electing members to state parties is a difficult process, let alone the national party.  A lot of people like to think political parties work as one big machine where everyone is on the same side.  This is not the case.  Frankly there are a lot of states who simply think they know better than everyone else (see VA for more) and don't play nice.  It's ungodly complicated getting everyone to work together and frankly, despite all this we are still better organized than the democrats. 

So what do you do if you are unhappy with the way things work? Well I hate to say this but getting involved in the grassroots level is the best way... if you can change or help Republican politics at the local level, you have better chance of changing things at the state level and so on and so forth.  I know a lot of people just call the RNC and complain vehemently about things they don't like, and that's just the way not to change things (see party structure argument above). 

75 Anuzis is out, does not say who he supports...as far as I heard anyway

76 79 + 69 + 20 = 168

168 / 2 = 84

85 = 84 (50%) + 1

Q.E.D., Moron

77

Anuzis 0.0

78 72 Time for Anuzis to pull out.

Just did.

79

Saul Anuzis is party chair

musical chairs is fun at a party too

sitting on a unicorn horn

 

80 Started dricking too early sheesh.

81 On what planet is 85 "a majority" of 79 + 69 + 20?

It's really complicated. You have to use imaginary numbers...like "eleventeen".

82

i'm willing to forgive misguidedness on most any single issue (not some, no pro-amnesty retards) but if Steele turns out to be a Republican (big gov, anti-liberty commie-wannabe) instead of a Conservative, i will hate and despise him as much as i loathed Mel Martinez.

83

Whoever wins, they can't be worse than Duncan.  I hope.

Nothing against Duncan personally, but if I didn't know better I'd suspect that he's spent the last year being dead.

Can we please get rid of Tom "K-Street Project" Cole while we're at it?

84 I have no idea where that affirmative action quote came from or what the context was exactly, but I doubt that it fully describes his position on it. 

If you think that he is a RINO, then that means you have never heard the man speak.  He is a true conservative. 

I don't know if he would pass on every issue that the most picky conservative would throw out, but he is all around solid.  And true conservative principles are the core of his ideology. 

Yes, we need to get the McCain type rinos out of republican leadership positions.  But the way to do this is not by trashing every candidate who is not as fiery as Michael Savage.

85 If it's Steele, and Steele is for affirmative action, will The Left love us? Screw policy, I will do anything to get approval from The Left! (and I'll be simply heartbroken if things don't turn out that way...)

86 @83 - I think Cole is already out. I understand that Mike Pence is about ready to pounce onto his seat.

87 Looks like it's down to Steele or Russian Roulette with a Glock 9mm for the GOP.


I've seen others say it, and I'll say it too - if Dawson wins, I'm changing my party affiliation to Independent.

88 What the hell do all of you have against Dawson?

89 What the hell do all of you have against Dawson?


Seriously?

90 People dislike dawson because he was a member of a de facto "Whites only" country club, and he's repeatedly said what got him interested in politics was busing aspect of segregation.  and he was against it.

91

Why you should be worried about Steele.

http://tinyurl.com/bxwv2o

92 JFH:

Dawson's prior memberships in country clubs and debutante coming out societies that exclude minorities. 

The optics are a disaster for the tiny momentum the GOP has now.

93 The only other things I disagreed with Steele on besides affirmative action is his being against the death penalty and his general opposition to Rumsfeld.

94 @JFH

We arent democrats, we cant excuse our members that belong to racist organizations.

95 As Lieutenant Governor, Steele chaired a 17-member task force devoted to reforming Maryland's Minority Business Enterprise (MBE), which works to provide more opportunities for minority-owned small businesses and further spur job growth and economic vitality. Steele led the way in committing almost $70 million in grants and loan guarantees to strengthen and encourage Maryland's small and minority-owned businesses.

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Michael_Steele.htm

As a long-time Maryland resident, I can't begin to tell you how fucked up that is.

96

he's repeatedly said what got him interested in politics was busing aspect of [de]segregation.  and he was against it.

You know, that's a good thing. You're supposed to applaud him for that, unless your name is Axelrod.

97 i don't have anything against Dawson, i don't even know who the guy is, but the whole "whites-only country-club" thing is just stupid beyond all reason, what on earth was he thinking doing such a thing? I instantly doubt his judgement.

98

We arent democrats, we cant excuse our members that belong to racist organizations.

Maybe that's why the Democrats keep winning and we keep losing. But like John McIdiot, we lose with honor!

99 The only other things I disagreed with Steele on besides affirmative action is his being against the death penalty..

Michael Steele is a devout Catholic, and the official position of the Catholic Church is against the Death Penalty.

/Catholic

//favors the death sentence

100 yeah well anyone who was against the civil rights movement in the 1960's is branded a racist.  Whether i disagree with it or not isnt the issue, its a matter of perception, and the perception of dawson is shitty. the end.

101
Steele is fucking awful; he personifies the major problems in the RNC.

102 @98

You may think winning is the ultimate goal, but I am done sacrificing principals just to get our guy in the big chair.

103

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath.  Here's a news flash for you:

YOU ARE A FUCKING RACIST.

Full stop.

If you elect the Southern White, you're a racist.  If you elect a black man, he's a "token", Uncle Tom, StepandFetchit house-n*gger, and you are still a fucking racist.

BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS ARE THE PARTY OF RACISM.

It has been carved in stone by the Democrats and their MSM proxies, who at least have some conviction and discipline when it comes to defining the opposition.  And according to a lot of the comments here, Republicans are content to keep reacting to Democrat moves, instead of taking the initiative.

If we're truly a color-blind meritocracy, why don't we fucking act like it and quit worrying about in which manner the MSM is going to demonize the party this week?  Because they are going to, no matter which move you make.

Top lesbian Tammy Bruce made a great point about being labeled a racist - once it happens to you, you realize that you still will draw breath, your heart will still pump, and nothing has really changed, so why worry about what idiots call you?

Get your fucking business done and if some limp-dick wants to try to label you as a racist or "meanie", stab a hole out the back of its head with your cock.

It's what Reagan would have done.

 

104 One more reason to support Steele: The Catholic Church is getting increasingly politically active in the pro-life movement. They've even threatened to close all Catholic Hospitals if the so-called Freedom Of Choice Act is passed and requires them to perform abortions at Catholic Hospitals.


There are 64 million Catholics in this country. My fellow Catholics coming to the GOP side is a game changer.

105 88 What the hell do all of you have against Dawson?

I know nothing about the guy, so really don't have anything against him specifically.  I do have a bad feeling about him from the little I know though.  Here are 2 reasons why:

1) I don't know him.  I keep up on this stuff, and I have never heard of the guy.  In my experience this typically means that he is a professional bureaucrat and has no contact with the base.   Which means he probably doesn't understand what the conservative movement is all about.

2) Controversy over a country club.  Beyond the fact that this will add another solid race card to the Donk's hand, I'm just pretty tired of Country Club Republicans in general.  Are there really no people in flyover country who live completely normal lives that I can relate to that can be found to lead my party? 

106

Naqamel at January 30, 2009 03:47 PM (UMwMT)

I don't understand what you are trying to say.  Is he for or against the death penalty?

107

yeah well anyone who was against the civil rights movement in the 1960's is branded a racist. 

Anyone who thinks that opposition to busing, which was the biggst winning issue the GOP ever had, equals "opposiiton to the civil rights movement" needs to go back to hitting the bong and shut up about politics.

108
The only conservative running was Ken Blackwell.

109 Holy crap, people, THAT'S what you worried about.  Who gives a crap?  Are you saying that anyone that belongs to any "all white" club is a closet racist?

110 Steele is fucking awful; he personifies the major problems in the RNC.

First I'd like to point out that Steele is NOT an RNC member.  Second, please inform us as to what the big problems are at the RNC.  Not that I disagree with you, I'm just intersted in people fleshing out what is wrong with the national party as a whole.

Now if you have problems with the Republican brand... that's different.  The RNC's only function is to elect Republicans to office.  The RNC does not shape policy at all, that is the function of Conservative think tanks, which have basically shit the bed recently.

So, let's flesh out the RNC's problems in one instance, and the issues we all have with the Republican party (mindset, policy issues, etc)

111

Sorry, but after hearing one too many "sermons" of Jeremiah Goddam America Wright, the issue with Dawson's private club is a tempest in a teapot.

Is Dawson more solid on spending and border security than is Steele? Is Steele a RINO? I honestly do not know. Discuss.

112

dan-O at January 30, 2009 03:50 PM (teb/C)

I'm for Steele solely for political strategy purposes but I've belonged to a couple of country clubs and I'm completely normal except for frequenting AOSHQ.

113 polynikes: Steele is against the Death Penalty. So is the Catholic Church. Steele is Catholic.


I'm a Catholic, I favor the Death Penalty.

114

I am done sacrificing principals just to get our guy in the big chair.

So you will support a RINO? What exactly are those principles you are not willing to sacrifice?

115

Let's not get carried away with the whole "whites only country club" thing.  From the way it's been described, I sort of doubt that there's a line of black people banging on the door trying to get membership.

As far as I know there might have been black members, but the place is so very white that they were transformed to white people by osmosis.

Poor judgement?  Maybe, but I doubt he viewed it as a racist group.

116

he's repeatedly said what got him interested in politics was busing aspect of [de]segregation.  and he was against it.

You know, that's a good thing. You're supposed to applaud him for that, unless your name is Axelrod.

 

Harumph!

117 Of course, the only real conservatives (Blackwell, Anuzis) bombed.

Steele started a fucking organization with Christie Whitman for chrissake... Don't try to paint him as Fred 2.0.

118 My fellow Catholics coming to the GOP side is a game changer.

Because what the Party needs is a few million more socialists.

(Isn't this the flame thread? It looks like one.)

119 Dammit.

120

Naqamel at January 30, 2009 03:52 PM (UMwMT)

I thought that might be what you were saying.  I blame me not understanding on Pixy misa.

121

I don't like Steele's affirmative action stand, but whatever.  He seems like he'd be better than what we've currently got.  And he can call out Obama and not be labeled a racist.

Oh shit, then I have to go with Dawson. Steele is a RINO. I wanted Blackwell, but he's out.

Don't you realize that we will always be demogogued by the Demunists? Empire of Jeff has it right.

Repeat after me: "The media and the Democrat Party (but I repeat myself) will always slander me anyway." Repeat until it sinks in.

122 Two words: Lee Atwater...  Who ever heard of that SC politcal operative... and they called him a racist also...

123

If we're truly a color-blind meritocracy, why don't we fucking act like it and quit worrying about in which manner the MSM is going to demonize the party this week?  Because they are going to, no matter which move you make.

Top lesbian Tammy Bruce made a great point about being labeled a racist - once it happens to you, you realize that you still will draw breath, your heart will still pump, and nothing has really changed, so why worry about what idiots call you?

Get your fucking business done and if some limp-dick wants to try to label you as a racist or "meanie", stab a hole out the back of its head

with your cock.

It's what Reagan would have done.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 30, 2009 03:49 PM (bu0Ek)

Just thought this needed being posted again.  I  might have worded it differently but agree totally with it.  And everytime I tell you white people this, I get a bunch of cretins who don't bother to read and go all "black chick criticizing white people=she's calling us racist!"  No I'm telling you so-called fearful Caucasians to man up.

And they say we're inferior.

124

one reason we should all take a chill-pill:

Sarah Palin '12

(and if she turns out not to be a real conservative, i will be making an appointment with a doctor.... Dr. Kavorkian)

 

 

125

Anyone who thinks that opposition to busing, which was the biggst winning issue the GOP ever had, equals "opposiiton to the civil rights movement" needs to go back to hitting the bong and shut up about politics.

Bingo! Two rules of politics:

1. If you oppose the Commiecrat social(ist) engineering, they will race-bait you.

2. Repeat Rule #1

Repeat after me: "The media and the Democrat Party (but I repeat myself) will always slander me anyway." Repeat until it sinks in.

126 Are you saying that anyone that belongs to any "all white" club is a closet racist?

If you're gonna be in a knife fight, you don't hand your opponent a Ka-Bar to replace his Swiss Army knife.

I don't doubt his judgment for belonging to a whites-only country club (freedom of association). I doubt his judgment because he knew his history, he knows that the Dems will castigate the GOP as a whole for it, and yet he still decided to run for RNC Chair.

127

Get your fucking business done and if some limp-dick wants to try to label you as a racist or "meanie", stab a hole out the back of its head with your cock.

It's what Reagan would have done.

 

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 30, 2009 03:49 PM (bu0Ek)

threadwinnar.

128

One more reason to support Steele: The Catholic Church is getting increasingly politically active in the pro-life movement. They've even threatened to close all Catholic Hospitals if the so-called Freedom Of Choice Act is passed and requires them to perform abortions at Catholic Hospitals.


There are 64 million Catholics in this country. My fellow Catholics coming to the GOP side is a game changer

I give you, Kerry, the Kennedys and Gulianni.  All Catholics.  All in the Pro-Choice crowd.  Typically by offering up some BS about how they are personally against abortion but know not all the people they represent are so won't vote the way they personally believe.

129 @114

How about equality of man?

And if Steele is a RINO, how much of a RINO is he compared to McCain? Anything less is called a small step to the right, and that is fine by me. I can argue policy with a RINO, but I cant talk some one out of thinking their race is superior.

And even if the Country Club wasnt exactly overloaded with minority applicants, a rule is a rule is a rule.

I didnt believe Obama when he said he didnt know Wright was racist, I dont believe this guy when he says he didnt know his club was racist.

130 Fair enough. Point is well taken.  However, lets not discount the fact that there will be a lot of papers that put a ridiculous headline like "RNC Appoints Racist to Chairman Position".  I realize they will always slander us but at a time when party ID is ridiculously low, when we face all these other problems, is that what we really need to get started off right? I mean, hell I'm for whoever does the best job, but I can't get past the perception issue.

131
First I'd like to point out that Steele is NOT an RNC member.  Second, please inform us as to what the big problems are at the RNC. please inform us as to what the big problems are at the RNC.

Steele will not attack the Democrats or Obama on their fraud, lying, and corruption.

Steele will call for unity and bipartisanhip.

Steele is against domestic oil exploration.

Steele is against border security.

Steele is against Voter ID.

Steele is for amnesty for illegals.

Steele is for pandering to illegals.

The RNC is heading in the wrong direction on every single Conservative issue and Michael Steele will be more than eager to drive the party off the cliff.

132 No I'm telling you so-called fearful Caucasians to man up.

And they say we're inferior.

Harumph!

It's the White Man's Burden, baldilocks - comparitively tiny genitals.  Thanks for the spine-stiffener.

133 I give you, Kerry, the Kennedys and Gulianni. All Catholics. All in the Pro-Choice crowd. Typically by offering up some BS about how they are personally against abortion but know not all the people they represent are so won't vote the way they personally believe.


And not a one of those 3 are supposed to receive Communion. The Church has strongly condemned being a Catholic and being Pro-Infanticide.

134 My understanding is that the "Whites Only" policy dates back to more than two or three decades. But even before Dawson joined, Black people have been playing at the club and using the facilities. There simply was no push to change the policy because the bulk of the membership were kids when the policy was established and so were not aware of it, and given the area's demographics, Black prospective members must have been rare.

In other words, Dawson is getting a bum rap.

That said, GO STEELE!!!

135 >> and the official position of the Catholic Church is against the Death Penalty.

This is not true.  The Catechism does not call the death penalty "intrinsically evil" (as it does, for example, abortion).  That means that under any given conditions, abortion is wrong.  This is not the case for the death penalty. 

There are cases where the Catechism argues that the death penalty could be morally justifiable.  For example, the execution of Saddam Hussein was one of those.  That is one of those cases where his death took away the drive for many Baathists to continue to riot and murder to try to get their man back in power.  They can't, he's dead.

That said, I think most Catholic theologians would argue that the way the death penalty is used here in the US is not in line with the Church. 

But the point is, they would argue this.  They could not outright claim it as a statement of fact like they can with abortion.

136 This is for the RNC chairmanship not the President. I want someone who can administer, get the vote out and put a face on the party that may attract others.  I'll take a RINO who can do that over someone that agrees with me 100% on policy that will have trouble doing that.

137 Come on, Steele.

138

baldilocks has it. They will *always* fabricate dirt. It's what they do. Just do what is honest and right and be prepared to be smeared. Based upon Steele's actions and track record with Christine Todd Whitman, I have to go with Dawson.

Repeat after me: "The media and the Democrat Party (but I repeat myself) will always slander me anyway." Repeat until it sinks in.

 

139 Yeah!

140 And steele won

141 Its Steele.

142 Yes.

143 Steele 91

Dawson 77


STEELE WINS

144 Well, hope lives, I guess.

145 Yes! Steele got it!

146 Isn't Maryland a ridiculously liberal state?

147
I'll take a RINO who can do that over someone that agrees with me 100% on policy that will have trouble doing that.

Way to have faith in your core conservative values, ploynikes. In other words, you're saying we need to shmooz the American people to come to our side because Conservatism kinda stinks.

148

I'll take a RINO who can do that over someone that agrees with me 100% on policy that will have trouble doing that.

Key question: but CAN he do that?

149 Darling,

Steele likes Palin, Steele is willing to work for Palin.

That alone gives me much more hope than Katon Dawson.

Palin is our future. Embrace it.

150 AWESOME!!!


Rino Power! Hell yes!!


I love being a member of the Democrat-Lite Party.

Now that we have a black guy on our side we are totally going to be able to kick some ass at this identity politics game.

Sweeeeeet.

151 Here's a twist - If Steele weren't black, he never would have been on the radar screen outside of Maryland, nor heard from past his fizzled-out political career.

But leave it to the squish's in the GOP to push him forward, vainly hoping for MSM and Democratic approval.

Baldilocks is right - you peeps need to man up.

152

Fair enough. Point is well taken.  However, lets not discount the fact that there will be a lot of papers that put a ridiculous headline like "RNC Appoints Racist to Chairman Position".  I realize they will always slander us but at a time when party ID is ridiculously low, when we face all these other problems, is that what we really need to get started off right? I mean, hell I'm for whoever does the best job, but I can't get past the perception issue.

The problem, Kirk is the way you think our message should be promulgated.  The conventional wisdom is that you must woo the MSM into projecting you in a favorable light. 

Not. Fucking. Possible.

You HAVE to be your own spokesman.  That was the genius of Reagan. The media and the Democratic party in his day were every bit as adversarial as they are now, but he went over, around and through the gatekeepers to define himself and the party.

And he didn't have the advantages of alternative media outlets like the party is continually NOT taking advantage of today.  He had vision, principles, conviction, and guts.  And as Gunny Hartmann says, "Guts is enough."

153

i'm pretty close to changing my mind on this, i came here hoping Steele would win, now i'm not so sure, i agree with the posters who are pointing out that conservatives will NEVER get a fair shake in the MSM, we will always be greedy racists, clinging to our guns and religion, but i still can't support Dawson because: 1. horrible judgement in being a part of "whites-only" anything, 2. who the hell is this guy and what has he done to earn my support?

Palin/DeMint 2012!

154 Eh, don't care that much except for the fact that so many on this thread were playing the part of an immature brat who wanted to take their ball and go home if they didn't get their way.

155

 In other words, you're saying we need to shmooz the American people to come to our side because Conservatism kinda stinks.

Yeah that's exactly what  I said brainiac.  Your guy lost. I guess we'll have to hear your usual continuous whine like every other  subject.

156 "Palin is our future. Embrace it."


Permanent minority is your future. And you've already embraced it.

157 @131
A simple google search reveals your full of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhvRQyRdVEI

http://tiny.cc/moU8X


http://tiny.cc/28hgl

158 Steele likes Palin, Steele is willing to work for Palin.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^


Palin 2012, motherfuckers.

159

Posted by: polynikes at January 30, 2009 03:52 PM (m2CN7)

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that people who have country club cards are bad republicans.  I play golf myself.

Like I said, I don't know anything about him, so it's possible that he could be wonderful.

I'm just saying I have a really bad feeling about him.

160 We should run Alen Keyes for President in the next election. He's black, so he should be a shoe in right?

161 The problem, Kirk is the way you think our message should be promulgated.

I honestly don't know how we should frame our message.  I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think we can't over look everything and forge ahead as if all is well.

Honestly, I think our path back to victory lies in laying off Obama and going after the numerous asshats in Congress.  We've gotten off to a good start in that respect.

162 Sure, Steele may not be on the radar if he wasn't black, but this is a necessary move. 

If Dawson had won, the MSM would have actually depicted us as neo-fascists, as if they haven't already. 

Steele isn't a pure conservative, but he is no RINO.

163 Thank God.

164
Steele likes Palin, Steele is willing to work for Palin.

Steele is full of shit. Steele is no different than McCain's campaign people, and Steele has no love for Sarah Palin's conservatism.

Palin is our future. Embrace it.

Great. Way to put our future in someone who can't outsmart Katie Fucking Couric in an interview.

165
Your guy lost.

My guy?

They all sucked. Ken Blackwell was least sucky, but all the candidates sucked.

166 I love Steele so I'm happy to see he won.

167 I must say that while I probably disagree with Darling on a fair number of things, I admire the passion.

And guys, Palin isn't going to get the nod, no front runner ever does in this modern media age. 

168

Aside from his political celebrity — and knack for being a good talking head — there’s little else about the man that would make him a good chairman. While much has been written about his candidacy and the reasons conservatives should be skeptical, time is running out to convince the 168 members of the RNC they should steer clear of him. Here’s why:

Steele boasts that his chairmanship of GOPAC qualifies him to run the RNC. He cites GOPAC’s work to elect Republicans as good preparation. So how did GOPAC fare under Steele’s leadership? During the 2008 cycle, GOPAC gave 11 candidates seeking U.S. House seats nearly $20,000. Six won and five lost. (See my update, “The Tale of Two GOPACs.”)

Among GOPAC’s expenditures in 2008 was $5,000 to Steele for Maryland, even though Steele wasn’t on the ballot. The money probably went to pay off Steele’s 2006 campaign debt. It also happened to be the third largest expenditure for GOPAC, raising questions about the organization’s priorities under his leadership.

Money has been a problem for Steele in the past. Jennifer Skalka of National Journal’s Hotline reported that when Steele’s consulting business struggled financially, two banks threatened to place liens on his house. Although Steele cleared his debts, these financial issues are factors that must be considered for anyone seeking the RNC chairmanship.

Steele’s well-documented role with the Republican Leadership Council and association with co-founder Christie Todd Whitman is perhaps the most egregious political error he’s made. Any conservative who partners with the liberal Whitman must be viewed skeptically. Steele claims he was trying to broaden the party’s base by appealing to moderates. “We have to elect moderates in the party,” he told CBN’s David Brody.

One of those moderates Steele supported was former Rep. Wayne Gilchrist, a classic RINO if there ever was one. Gilchrist faced a primary challenge from conservative Andy Harris, a Maryland state senator with strong backing from the Club for Growth. It didn’t matter to Steele. He threw his support to Gilchrist. Harris went on to win the GOP primary, prompting Gilchrist to turn on the GOP and endorse Harris’ Democrat opponent.

Is this the type of judgment we could expect from Steele at the RNC? The answer is yes. How do we know? As Matt Lewis reported, Steele has tapped Blaise Hazelwood to run his RNC race, meaning there’s a good chance she would follow him to the RNC if he is elected. During the disastrous 2006 election cycle, it was Hazelwood who ran media and political operations for the National Republican Senatorial Committee. Recall that the NRSC lost six seats that cycle and, as a result, the Republican majority in the Senate. Under Hazelwood’s direction, the NRSC spent $1.2 million in the GOP primary to save traitorous Lincoln Chafee from a challenge by conservative Steve Laffey.

169

Dude, it's because all is NOT well that we have to kick some ass and take names.

And lay off Obama?  Are you nuts?  He has made himself the standard bearer for liberalism in this country!  He's simplified the ideological battle!

You can't go after the "asshats" in Congress because nobody knows or cares who they are.  Obama is the figurehead and all the hopes of liberals rest on his narrow bitch shoulders.

And I'm gonna be sawing away at his hamstrings like a fucking lumberjack these next four years. 

170

If  Gabe liked Steele, doesn't that tell you all you need to know?

No offense to Gabe, but he's a pro-war lefty. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

171

Although Steele cleared his debts, these financial issues are factors that must be considered for anyone seeking the RNC chairmanship.

Burn him at the stake, he cleared his debts!

That puts question to the whole hit piece article.

172 2010 is what matters before 2012.  It makes no sense to completely go after a guy who isn't up for election for four years. 

I'm not saying to lay off him completely, I'm just saying making him the primary source of attack while he sits on a 65% approval rating for the next 10 months is naive.  He'll come back down to earth, but it's going to take some time.

173

I don't know anything about Dawson, but I'm getting leery of assuming the worst about someone based on what the MSM tells me.  Saying a club has no black members is different than saying that a club has denied membership to blacks- that they have intentionally discriminated.  If there are stories showing that the club discriminates, beyond a covenant from the 1940s, then that's another issue.

The demographics in this country aren't uniform- there are parts that are overwhelmingly white and parts that are overwhelmingly black.  There's a country club near me, in a predominantly white county that went for Obama, that probably has no black members.  Should I assume they're all racists there?

174

My guy?

They all sucked. Ken Blackwell was least sucky, but all the candidates sucked.

From your posting It seemed like your guy was anyone but Steele.

175 Shame on you, Martin Knight. You've gone native from hanging out at Redstate.

176  No offense to Gabe, but he's a pro-war lefty. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I spent the last year and a half writing here and you still can't accurately describe my politics.  Yep, you're a moron.

177 @168
You really going to post an article laying the blame for the 06 elections on Steele!?!?!?? wow...

fuck, why am I even defending this guy?

178

That puts question to the whole hit piece article.

Only to a retarded douchbag like you. Isn't there a dick somewhere you should be sucking?

179
I was going to say the same thing, Gabe Malor.

Your endorsement of Steele pretty much made my case; Steele is a weak-ass Conservative. Sorry, man.

180

2010 is what matters before 2012.  It makes no sense to completely go after a guy who isn't up for election for four years. 

I'm not saying to lay off him completely, I'm just saying making him the primary source of attack while he sits on a 65% approval rating for the next 10 months is naive.  He'll come back down to earth, but it's going to take some time.

Which strategy was employed by Republicans to get elected in 94?  Going after Clinton or going after Congress?  Employ that strategy.

And it doesn't make any sense to lay off him because of a high approval, even if its just a little.  Criticizing and pointing out the problems he has is the way to chip away at that approval rating.

181 Darling,

Can;'t wait to see you fall at the end of my gatling gun when the civil war comes around.

182

I spent the last year and a half writing here and you still can't accurately describe my politics. 

I accurately described your politics.

183 Steelers win!

184 Only to a retarded douchbag like you. Isn't there a dick somewhere you should be sucking?

Can;'t wait to see you fall at the end of my gatling gun when the civil war comes around.

Boy, this escalated quickly... I mean, it really got out of hand fast!

185
Yes, that's right, numbnuts, I'm your enemy.

And this is why we lose at the polls...

186

Which strategy was employed by Republicans to get elected in 94?  Going after Clinton or going after Congress?  Employ that strategy.

Then go after both, but go after Congress more. Outrage with a lot of entrenched Demunist congresscritters led to the Great Upchuck of 1994.

187 Okay, I hear what you are saying, but what about the question of what makes more sense: go after the guy who has the 65% approval rating (obama) or the guys with a less than 20% approval rating (congress).

188 "154 Eh, don't care that much except for the fact that so many on this thread were playing the part of an immature brat who wanted to take their ball and go home if they didn't get their way."

Ding Ding Ding!!!

Give the man a Cohiba!

189 Look, ill concede that Steele may be a RINO, but he's a RINO that is pro domestic drilling, anti-amnesty, and pro-border security.

For fucks sake, compared to the guy we elected for our presidential campaign, Steele is a fucking blood sucking right winger.

190 I'm curious, do the Dims have this much of in-fighting on their blogs?

191

You can't go after the "asshats" in Congress because nobody knows or cares who they are.  Obama is the figurehead and all the hopes of liberals rest on his narrow bitch shoulders.

Au contraire. The RNC could just run excerpts of Pelosi speaking on C-Span in a continuous loop and that would make a pretty good case for a Congressional Enema in 2010.

192 Steele scares sh*t out of the Washington Post.  Good enough for me.

193 Anyone that thinks conservatives march in lockstep should read this shit.
The Libs rip hell out of each other too but not when the time comes to vote,we best keep that in mind.....

194
Look, ill concede that Steele may be a RINO, but he's a RINO that is pro domestic drilling, anti-amnesty, and pro-border security.

No, you've got it all backwards. Steele is exactly like McCain on everything.

WTF, do I live in an alternate universe, or something?

195 >> 190 I'm curious, do the Dims have this much of in-fighting on their blogs?

Actually it's really only a couple trolls that say dumb things like "omg he's against drilling!!"  This is the guys whose speech popularized "Drill baby drill!"  So they can be safely ignored. 

Other than that, it is just good discussion

196 The question isn't whether Steele is ideologically pure, like say, Haley Barbour, it's whether he will be an effective advocate for conservativism and a counter to the three-headed-dimwitted monster currently running Washington. My bet is that he will be. Frankly, if Mike Duncan wasn't such an idiot, there's a decent chance the GOP would have held many seats and retained the White House. But when 57 percent of Barry supporters think the Republicans are still running the Congress with a 9-percent approval rating, you know the RNC has UTTERLY failed.

197 Steele's personal positions on things matter much much less than whether he can raise money and look good on TV effectively battling the media with our talking points.  Can he help elect Republicans? We shall see.

198 My fellow Catholics coming to the GOP side is a game changer.

Well let's hope so because if Catholics continue to support the Party of Abortion then  Catholicism is empty religion kept alive by a hollow ritual and their righteous no longer holds meaning.

Are a few measly pieces of silver so important to the Catholic religion it is willing to betray its most fundamental tenets in order to get the dirty money.

199 New ballgame, Kirk. They're all one collective Borg-hive now. That's how they got Urkel X elected in the first place, by building up this cult of personality around him.

Obama IS the Democrat party, now. I think the pressure needs to stay on him, because regardless of who authors an idea, he'll pass it off as his own, because his ego demands the focus stay on him.

The only time he's going to acknowledge his teammates is when he rips them off like a defective circuit board to toss them under that gigantic bus that follows him around. That's where we'll have the opportunity to pick up seats.

200 @194 Darling

Unfortunately I posted articles and videos to support my views @157
and you just said a couple things and wanted everyone to take it at face value.

201

Okay, I hear what you are saying, but what about the question of what makes more sense: go after the guy who has the 65% approval rating (obama) or the guys with a less than 20% approval rating (congress).

Well in one case you have a single individual to attack.  In the other you have a single entity made up of many individuals.  And within that entity while it obviously has a low approval as a whole, you're in the situation of the classic phrase "I hate all (insert group here) except mine."  So while people hate congress they're still likely inclined to reelect their own congressman.

You're better off choosing a smaller number of targets for concentrated attack, like Obama.  And with Congress it wouldn't be to attack Congress but someone like Pelosi, and indicating that if you hate her to get her out of power the dems have to lose power.

202

FFS, you people need an enema.  At least Steele has a pulse, which is more than we can say for the outgoing chairman.

Dawson sounds like the real deal philosophically, but the whole country club (whites only or not) deal just pretty much would make the guy a fucking anvil. 

To sum it up, I was pretty much anybody-but-Duncan, and I got my wish.

203 My fellow Catholics coming to the GOP side is a game changer.

Well let's hope so because if Catholics continue to support the Party of Abortion then Catholicism is empty religion kept alive by a hollow ritual and their righteous no longer holds meaning.

Are a few measly pieces of silver so important to the Catholic religion it is willing to betray its most fundamental tenets in order to get the dirty money.
Posted by: syn at January 30, 2009 04:37 PM (ASzue)


You could have just said, "I don't know anything about Catholicism. Ignorant blather to follow."

It would have been shorter.

204 You attack the big guy not the swarm of congresscritters.

205 Is anyone else watching CSPAN? A caller just called Barack Obama the greatest American President of all time.  He's been President 10 days.

206

re: #168

if this is true (and i will be checking) then Steele is no conservative, god damn it! i am so sick of dem-lites calling themselves conservatives, a conservative is a conservative is a conservative, you either are one or your not, if your not don't try to tell me you are, it only pisses me off.

but conservs can not give ammuntion to our opponents.

neither Steele or Dawson are good choices for me, but what does the RNC chairman do? to raise money is the main duty of that position, based on that i will not kick up too much fuss over Steele.

as for 2012, if Palin or some other true conservative does not get the nod, i will boycott that election too

 

207 Blackwell conceding is also great news for Ohio. Now Blackwell can run for Voinovich's seat.......we're hoping Kasich will unseat Strickland when the time comes......

208 Whatever...

209 Now all we need is Ted Nugent  to get elected NRA president and we'll be set.

210 Here we go again...Infighting like a bunch of alley cats & wondering why people can't take us seriously...

211 I have never heard Steele speak... but somebody tell me, the first Dem that calls him a "house n-word", will he rip their head off and piss into the hole?  I'm hoping for change here.

212 210 We are not serious people.  We are morons. 

213 Out, out, damn sockpuppet!

214 I heard Ted Nugent speak at the Safari Cub annual meeting one year - very loud and opinionated but quite funny. Certainly not PC at all!

215 flenser ... Do I know you? And why the heck should I care what you think?
And please, does anyone really believe that TSAR (a moby if there ever was one) is a Republican who actually would be happy with anyone that got picked?

216 "Steele led the way in committing almost $70 million in grants and loan guarantees to strengthen and encourage Maryland's small and minority-owned businesses."

OMG.  Maryland is one of the worst states to do business because of all that MBE/DBE crap.  Ugh!

 

217 I'm late to the party but I just have to say, you're nuts if you think it's no big deal that Dawson belonged to a club that excluded blacks. Putting that guy at the head of the party would be so mind numbingly dumb that one can only imagine it was engineered by Howard Dean or David Axlerod.

And no, it's not a question of 'giving in' to liberals...it's just  fucking wrong to give a place of honor to someone who is comfortable excluding people based on race from their little club.  Sure Dawson and his friends have a right to let whomever they want in their club, just as I have a right not to associate with them based on that action.

The idea that this guy almost became the face of the Republican Party beggars belief.

218 And btw- I'm not saying Dawson is a racist. He may very well be a fine fellow but membership in that club was terrible judgment and it does say something very unfaltering about him.

And yes, perceptions matter. Having him as chairman would have been disastrous and rightly so.

219 the first Dem that calls him a "house n-word", .....already happening @ KOS/Huffpo

220 Google Oreo cookies and Steele.

Now, I vigorously disagree with Steele regarding AA/quotas/minority set-asides. But he was treated disgracefully by the ultra-liberal powers that be in Maryland, and I can sort of admire his self-control much more than I would have had if it happened to me.

By the way, what is the current GOP's plank regarding AA/quotas/minority set-asides? Have they conceded the issue in the name of "compassionate conservatism"?
Steele will have responsibility for developing and promoting the GOP platform.

221 Steele lost his senate race to an inferior candidate and now promises to do the same for Republican candidates. The "Big Tent" door swings both ways. As NE moderates are invited in; we social conservatives will exit out.

222

223 Posted by: Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow IV. at January 30, 2009 05:40 PM (NLtVk)

If you got your wish, you'd never see a Republican President, there'd never be more than 100 Repubicans in the House and probably 35 in the Senate.

Is that what you want?

America's system is requires large, broad based coalitions. It's not a parliamentary system where a small, pure party can over leverage itself into a power sharing agreement (see the ultra-orthodox parties in Israel for an example of punching above your weight in that kind of system).

Meanwhile back here in America...be careful what you wish for.

224

Republicans lose because they are scared pussies.  See above.  Why vote for a puss?

225 Some people confuse name calling with a winning strategy. See above.

226 DrewM. at January 30, 2009 05:46 PM (hlYel)

------------------------

Yea, I've heard this non sense before and for decades. Before Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. Wrong then. Wrong now.

The simple facts are:

1) We ran a moderate in 2008. How many NE states did McCain carry?
2)  An inordinate number of conservatives didn't vote at all in 2008. Wonder why?
3) We are not Germany where large coalitions are required. What we need do is stand for something, strengthen (not dilute) our brand, and differentiate ourselves from Brand X.


Moreover, before you describe what we must do, answer the question: How much of the 2008 election outcome was based on the incumbent party being in office during the widely characterized "worst economic crisis in history?"

The "Big Tent" door swings both ways. Go ahead, invite the NE moderates just don't expect the same base to rely on.

227

 

re #221

you are so right, sir

moderates are great, but they will come along on their own, moderates generally aren't the kind of ppl who will make cold calls. knock on doors, or stick around to clean up once the speech-a-ifing is over, what has lost the GOP the last two elections is loss of conservative enthusiasum, due to the party abandoning conservative principles, the answer is simple; go back to conservative principles, re-invigorate the base and the fence-squatters (moderates) will go to us, excluding conservs in order to include moderates is a losing game, the last two elections prove it

 

228

DrewM,

I think you have stolen my heart. Having someone who belonged to a "whites only" club at the helm of the RNC would spell disaster for the Republican party. The dems and the msm would have a feast day on this. It would be like handing your enemy a loaded gun and telling them to take their best shot.

229 I love Steele and he is so not a RINO. Maybe you should learn a little about him before just throwing the term around the way that some of you do.

230

Sorry Drew and Ginger, but the Left invents, nay fabricates, tempests in teapots just to get you to react. And how do you react? Often by going RINO wobbly.

Dawson wasn't my first choice, but Steele has way too much RINO wobbly in him. That said, he's won, and I will urge him not to go RINO wobbly.

Repeat after me: "The media and the Democrat Party (but I repeat myself) will always slander me anyway." Repeat until it sinks in.

231 Posted by: Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow IV. at January 30, 2009 05:55 PM (NLtVk)

When did I say run a moderate? I'm all for running as conservative a candidate as we can get who will win. The fact is that candidate will not win with only social conservative voters. It's simple math. Any candidate, conservative or otherwise has to win people beyond their base.

Are you denying this simple and undeniable fact?

The reason Republicans lost in '08 were fairly simple...Since 1948 one party has won 3 straight presidential terms once (Bush 41 following Reagan and that was more about Reagan than Bush). Look at 2000, at the height of peace and prosperity, Gore couldn't do it. He should have won in a blow out.

Obama was right, people want 'change' after 8 years, they almost always do. Add to that a weak Republican candidate, Bush fatigue and the faltering economy and that was all there was to it. Could a great Republican/conservative have won? Maybe but it would have been extraordinary.

232 TMQ: I hope you are right. The Affirmative Racism thing makes me pause.

233

I love Steele and he is so not a RINO. Maybe you should learn a little about him before just throwing the term around the way that some of you do.

I've heard Steele's positions described in diametrically opposite terms in this thread so somebody here is lying.  Or talking out of their ass.

234 He is eminently more qualified and holds a much more impressive resume than both Palin and Obama combined [not that that is much of a feat, but he's the real deal]. No affirmative going on. Believe me, I'm the first to throw that around when it's deserved.

235 Posted by: Curmudgeon at January 30, 2009 06:05 PM (ujg0T)

That's crazy on two levels...

First, it's wrong. If I had a friend who belonged to a club that specifically excluded blacks or others on race, I'd reevaluate my friendship with them. It's that simple.

Second, just because Democrats complain about something isn't prima facie evidence that's it wrong. Some times even they are right. In this case they would be.

Do you think it's morally acceptable to belong to a club that by charter excludes people based on race? Not that there aren't any black members but that the by-laws exclude them.

236 DrewM. at January 30, 2009 06:05 PM (hlYel)

---------------------------------------

Show me the math. I remain unconvinced as do many. "Are you denying this simple and undeniable fact?" Yea, right. Facts require compelling evidence, got some?

And, you're answer as to why we lost the last election with one of the most moderate of candidates is? How many NE moderates did McCain pull?

So, you are suggesting the "3 straight wins" theory exceeds the very obvious economic "crisis of a lifetime" while under a sitting Republican president? Maybe if you subscribe to the Enquirer.

237

Do you think it's morally acceptable to belong to a club that by charter excludes people based on race? Not that there aren't any black members but that the by-laws exclude them.

That's just it. I'd like some confirmation first. All of this had the rumor mill going, but no confirmation. If it were a Lloyd Bentsen situation, that would be something, then again, look how Lloyd got a pass on that.

238

Dawson shot himself in the foot, no matter how conservative he is, MSNBC et al. will roast him alive over the country club thing, we're better off with Steele winning this postition only because the left willhave less ammo to shot him with, i am willing to play this game when it comes to installing a RNC Chair, but i am not willing to play this game when the time comes to nominate a canidate for POTUS.

239
Michael Steele went on television in 2006 and called all of us who were in favor of building a border fence nativists and xenophobes and said that we do not represent the values of the Republican party.

Fuck him.

240 Heh, kos from dailykos actually made a kind of funny joke:

>> So yet again, the black man kept Dawson down.

You have to admit, it's kind of funny.

The point though is that they had a ton of ammunition ready to attack republicans with if Dawson was chosen.  Will they still attack Steele?  Of course, that's what they do.  And dailykos will still call Republicans racist because that is the caricature that they have built up. 

But reasonable people (aka., not dailykos people) will look and say, hey, those republicans just chose a black dude to run their party.  That means they are probably not racist.

I guarantee you that dailykos has major blue balls right now that Dawson was not elected.

241 Show me the math.
Posted by: Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow IV. at January 30, 2009 06:12 PM (NLtVk)

Assume for the moment that your base (none of those pesky RINOs from the Northeast) is represented by the states your presidential candidate won. McCain won 21 states. Assume for a moment that you win all those House districts...you get about 118.

Of course that's never going to be perfect in terms of all House districts going to one party in a state but that's about the size of your base, maybe a little bigger. Even if we up it from 100 to 150/175, that's no where near a majority. If you want to control the Congress you have to do it with more than Eric Cantors and Jeff Sessions of the world.

Am I wrong about that?

Ideological purity is a guarantee of permanent minority status.

So, you are suggesting the "3 straight wins" theory exceeds the very obvious economic "crisis of a lifetime" while under a sitting Republican
president?

I'm saying that no matter who we nominated, even if times were good, we would have been facing an uphill climb. Are you saying that's not true?  If you are, tell me about your memories of the Gore administration.

242 Show me the math.
Posted by: Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow IV. at January 30, 2009 06:12 PM (NLtVk)

Assume for the moment that your base (none of those pesky RINOs from the Northeast) is represented by the states your presidential candidate won. McCain won 21 states. Assume for a moment that you win all those House districts...you get about 118.

Of course that's never going to be perfect in terms of all House districts going to one party in a state but that's about the size of your base, maybe a little bigger. Even if we up it from 100 to 150/175, that's no where near a majority. If you want to control the Congress you have to do it with more than Eric Cantors and Jeff Sessions of the world.

Am I wrong about that?

Ideological purity is a guarantee of permanent minority status.

So, you are suggesting the "3 straight wins" theory exceeds the very obvious economic "crisis of a lifetime" while under a sitting Republican
president?

I'm saying that no matter who we nominated, even if times were good, we would have been facing an uphill climb. Are you saying that's not true?  If you are, tell me about your memories of the Gore administration.

243

Geez, there really wasn't any other choice than Steele.  Duncan was worthless, he's proven that.  Dawson...has more problems than making us look like a bunch of racists.  Anuzis couldn't even get his own state together much less a national arena.  Blackwell has baggage with ethics from Ohio.

Look, the head of the Party is the face of the party, he's supposed to help create enthusiasm and votes and encourage good candidates....and that's all.  He isn't there to please everyone in the Party, that's not his job.  He can't change the policies and the base .  So we don't need to agree with him on everything.  What we need is someone who can get out there,  be intelligent, be personable, be a good speaker, and get people interested in the Party.  It's up to the rest of us to decide in what direction that may be by supporting candidates that have our same values.  Having seen and heard Steele, I think he will make a good leader, and create interest in the Party.  Now let's make his job easier by finding and supporting Conservative candidates.

244 hahahhahha, this is great news! for john mccain!

http://tinyurl.com/brzvcy

245 Hear what douchenozzle Wolf Blitzer said about the Steele election already?We aren't going to win over CNN and the rest unless we all become dhimmicrats.Steele is great in front of the cameras,super articulate definately helpful to the cause.Can he raise money and get the brand out there in a big way?Maybe but it isn't just on him.We need all the R's help on this,the stimjob bill is the first battle and we are off to a good start.

246 DrewM, I completely agree with every point you've made. Thank you for speaking common sense!!!!

247 I think you have stolen my heart.

Ginger,

Thanks...now to work on some of those other more fun body parts you're always talking about!

Too soon?


(I keed, I keed. I know Ginger is maried to a rock star airline pilot and I can only fly small Cesenas. Speaking of which, any chance he can hook me up with a hawt flight attendent?)

248 DrewM. at January 30, 2009 07:18 PM (hlYel)

--------------------------------------------

"Big Tent" v. Leaky Bucket

Again, McCain was the NE moderates wet dream as a Republican. How many NE states did he win? For many, McCain was hard to distinguish from Obama on major issues, yet he failed to pull any NE states.

This ideological purity is complete lunacy. No one is suggesting that, you simply take it to an extreme in an attempt to make your false choice. In fact, the phrase social conservatism means different things to different people.

Many of you "Big Tent' types think that the imaginary tent is only additive. The illogical theory goes, (1) we have our base, so (2) lets just add some NE mods and we will be a majority. This is total bull shit.

The tent door swings both ways. You dilute the brand and you lose some of your base.The "Big Tent" is in actuality a leaky bucket. And, what's to say the squishy NE mods are going to move to the Republican ticket?

I recall Nancy Pelosi & Co. on a quest for the value voters after 2000 and 2004 cycles. In fact, donks have been chasing social conservates over the past two presidential election cycles. What the GOP is so eager to take for granted or cast aside would make good fodder for the DNC.

For the third time, you failed to provide me with a legitimate answer to the question: To what extent did the "economic crisis of our lifetime" under and presiding Republican president impact the 2008 outcome.

You gave me the 3 in a row theory, which is fun but hardly compelling. Yet if you are unwilling to acknowledge the impact of the economy, which was the #1 issue on voters minds based on exit polls, you lack credibility.

249 Monkey see, monkey do. Now Repiglicans can pretend they aren't racist fucksticks.

Do they really think that this is somehow going to endear them to a group of people they've neglected the entire history of their party, and has never, ever stood up for? Good luck.

This is absolutely no different than picking Sarah Palin on the POTUS ticket. Trying to openly pander to a group of people whose interests they have absolutely no intention of representing.

250 Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow IV.

I never said the economy wasn't an important or even most important issue. I'm saying the deck was stacked against any Republican before the economy tanked in the fall. Why is that so confusing to you?

I hate to break this to you but you may want to look at a map from last year. McCain lost Virginia, North Carolina and Florida (to name just a few former red states) not just the northeast. He was a fucking horrible candidate, running in a terrible environment.

Again, you want some sort of pure conservative party. If you get your way, you will be in the minority. Forever.

I think Cantor and Sessions are about as good as it gets for conservatives. Would you agree? Here's the thing, you seem hell bent on ignoring...there aren't 218 congressional districts that would elect someone like Cantor, nor are there 26 states that will send a guy like Sessions to the Senate.

So, if you want those two or people like them to chair committees and have real influence on legislation, you are going to need Congressmen and Senators from places outside of where your base is and who may not be ideal conservatives.

How is this even remotely debatable?

251

Blackwell conceding is also great news for Ohio. Now Blackwell can run for Voinovich's seat.......we're hoping Kasich will unseat Strickland when the time comes......

Say it again! Voinovich needs to go, Blackwell would be an excellent replacement. I have it on good authority that Kasich is done with politics and is enjoying life as it is. I agree tho, I wish he'd get back into the game.

Here's hoping!

252 Rus, 90 percent of blacks voted for Obama. Who are the racists?

253 Rus, what would the narrative be if 90 percent of whites had voted for McCain?

254 Tammy Bruce is a Lesbo?

255 Damn. #251 was me.

256 Now Repiglicans can pretend they aren't racist fucksticks.

Do they really think that this is somehow going to endear them to a group of people they've neglected the entire history of their party, and has never, ever stood up for?

Or alternatively, standing up against something as ugly as racial discrimination is the right thing to do, even if it doesn't ever win you a single vote.

257 Do they really think that this is somehow going to endear them to a group of people they've neglected the entire history of their party, and has never, ever stood up for?

Since that whole freeing-the-slaves and passing-the-civil-rights-act thing didn't do it, the third time will be the charm.



 

Our trolls are fucking morons, and not the good kind either.

258 DrewM. at January 30, 2009 08:39 PM (hlYel)

-----------------

I ask the same about you?

You continue to confuse cause and effect, a common albeit illogical mental trap.

Are you suggesting that even if (1) Bush's approval ratings were 90% like just after 9/11, and (2) the economy was basking in double digit growth, that (3) no GOP candidate could have possibly won because it would have been 3 in a row? Highly unlikely.

It is unconvincing that voters go to the polls saying "wait, this would be 3 in a row, I can't vote for that."

It is convincing that voters went to the polls saying 1) Bush is a bum with 23 percent or less approval rating, 2) the economy has catered with you conceivable answer to resolving the "crisis of a lifetime" by Bush or McCain.

What I am suggesting is that the micro analysis of districts and such are a terrific waste of time. The macro (as aforementioned) factors prevailed in the 2008 election.

No one knows with certitude what would have happened at the districts or national levels had the macro factors been positive. Perhaps Hopium and Changium would not have been so intoxicating.

259 If I remember correctly, LBJ passed the civil rights legislation, and he was....a....Democrat

260 Read a fucking history book, Toby.

261 Posted by: Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow IV. at January 30, 2009 08:52 PM (NLtVk)

No one is consciously thinking "no to 3 in a row", it's simply  the environment. People get tired of the same. BTW-the situation you describe was in effect the environment Gore was running in 2000. He should have cruised to election but there's always fatigue and baggage from an 8 year presidency.

Listen, I get you are unpersuaded that 3 terms is a high hurdel for any party at any time. Forget it. Ignore it. Let it go. Please.

Now, address my more important point...how do you get 218 Eric Cantors and 51 (or 60) Jeff Sessions? How do you ever get a working congressional majority if you demand ideological purity from elected Republicans?

262 "Or alternatively, standing up against something as ugly as racial discrimination is the right thing to do, even if it doesn't ever win you a single vote."

You mean like LBJ did, even though he knew it would cost him the South? Forever? But he did it anyway because it was the right thing to do?

The fact that this is the first major step for the GOP in terms of racial inclusion speaks for itself. It's 2000 and fucking 9, for Christ's sake. And don't give me Colin Powell. The man abandoned his party. Your party.

263 DrewM. at January 30, 2009 08:39 PM (hlYel)

--------------------------------------------------

What were the issues most important to voters in selecting a president (200:

1. Economy - 57%
2. War in Iraq -13%
3. Health care - 13%
4. Terrorism - 10%
5. Illegal Immigration - 5%

You know, I just don't see any social conservative issues on the list.

264 I just saw a bunch of pregnant moonbats blathering on about the evilness of Steele. He must be doing something right. Congrats, man.

265 Posted by: Sebastian B. O. Bunionstow IV. at January 30, 2009 08:52 PM (NLtVk)

For like the 3rd time, I agree that the economy was a major, if not in fact the major issue, last year. You can keep arguing the economy was important, perhaps at some point you'll notice I'm not disagreeing with you.

Here's where we disagree, you said you don't want NE republicans in the party.

As NE moderates are invited in; we social conservatives will exit out.

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how you ever win a presidential election and get majorities in Congress without people who aren't solid conservatives.

266

5. Illegal Immigration - 5%

You know, I just don't see any social conservative issues on the list.

???????

267 Read a fucking history book, Toby.

Who filibustered it?  Democrats.  Vastly higher proportions of Republicans voted for it than Democrats, the Party of the Confederacy, the Klan, and Jim Crow.

Kiss my ass moron.

268 Republicans:  the party of Lincoln, Douglas, and Martin Luther King.

269 Democrats:  the party of George Wallace, Bull Connor, and Lester Maddox.

270 DrewM. at January 30, 2009 09:08 PM (hlYel)

-------------------------

Point of Inquiry: How do you get NE Republicans if they don't vote Republican?  (mind boggles)

If they voted Republican in 2008 , what's the issue?

As I see it, there are two points of contention:

1) The "Big Tent" versus leaky bucket theories. You and Steele being of the "Big Tent" variety. Me being of the leaky bucket variety.

2) Micro versus Macro factors and their relative impacts. You being of the count the districts world. Me being of the macro issues determining eventual districts outcomes.

Based upon numbers 1 and 2 as stated, and realizing that the social conservative issues en masse carried no sway in the last election (see CNN voter issues above), it would seem very evident that to win a presidential election and get majorities in Congress is to be right on the issues. Right on the economy (check), right on the War in Iraq (check), and thus and so.

Now the more curious discussion, if I may say so, is what is the utility of for Democrats for having Blue Dogs pending 2010 election in Congress (ref: the 11 donks who voted against the Porkulus Plan)? Similarly, what is the utility for Republicans to have O. Snowe in the Senate?  She more willing to vote with Democrats than Republicans.

 

271 Dyer Anti-Lynching Bill

Proposed by Representative L.C. Dyer (R-MO), the Dyer Anti-Lynching Bill was an attempt to reduce or end completely the extremely high number of lynchings occurring in the United States since the end of World War I. President Warren G. Harding (R) announced his support for the bill during a speaking engagement in Birmingham, Alabama. Although the bill passed the House of Representatives in 1922, it was defeated in the Senate due to a filibuster. The bill would have made lynching a felony and prescribed punishments for it

[]...

On June 132005, in an unprecedented resolution, the Senate formally apologized for its failure to enact this and other anti-lynching bills.

272 Steele is nothing but a well known bureaucrat: that is his new job, and all he has to do is carry the water for the party and leave the making policy and winning national offices to others. His gig is to be a palatable face to the nation, not the MSM which didn't, doesn't, and won't ever, give a crap about any of us mouthbreathing conservatives, regardless of color of degree of  rightward tilt...

Any tilt away from the Socialism they admire earns their scorn, always has and always will. So,you put someone in place who can be a good  bureaucrat, give speeches, raise money and be palatable. Period. He's elected to nothing on the political side, has no voting population to please except us in the party and on the right, and should do a passable job. That's all he has to do. His personal take on things will be said behind closed  doors and if he seems too stupid to do the job, he can be recalled like any other guy elected to a PRIVATE organization.

In other words, he can be fired. Unlike being elected to public orifice, where he can stay as long as he can lie well enough to fool his electorate.
That said, we're AoS'ers are probably amongst the most strident and stringent conservatives in the blogosphere, as well as the most profane.We set high standards, and most public personalities fail our tests. That's life.

And as an aside, I care less about Gabe's politics or orientation, but I say he's a straight up FREAK. Why?

The dude runs. Exercises. Like, healthy and stuff. That is outside of the accepted and honored exertion of hobo hunting and deserves alienation and discrimination of the worst sort.

No Valu-Rite for you, my health crazed friend. None.
Rot in Hell Los Angeles. You health freak you. Bet you even watch your carbs intake. What's this country coming to?

273

So if Steel e doesn't have a conservative set, we have to help him grow a pair.  Republicans don't win without conservatives, period.  They get no money without walking the walk and talking the talk.  I think Americans are starting to understand that Government isn't going to spend us out of this economic hole.  Our job is to explain that fact to the people.  Just maybe they will realize the fat cat corporations they have been bitching about are where THE JOBS ARE ASSHOLES!  That just like the middle class Wallstreet types are losing their shirts just like them, even if they are silk shirts. 

When Reagan was elected things were worse and I don't need to remind you folks how much worse.  Reagan didn't try to solve it with more goverment.  He said government was the problem.  He didn't remind us every day of how bad things were but how great we are and the the best years are ahead of us.  The big O tells us we are in deep shit, its gonna get worse unless government spends us into the poorhouse and even if it get better its going to be a long time coming.  Reagan called us the "Shinning City on a hill; A beacon to the world."  This shithead thinks running around the world telling them we dictate to everyone and apologizing will help. This dumbass and the MSM will run us done and apologize for the air we breath and in doing so retard the recovery. 

I, for one, think the people on the right, if they weren't already aware, will be first to see him for the fraud he is.  Shortly thereafter, the middle will get sick his over exposure, being poor and reality will begin to dawn on them.  The left will not get it for as least as long as it took them to figure out Carter was is and has continued to be a total cluster fuck.

If Steele is a RINO, we push him.  If he doesn't get in line we push him out the door.  We are set for a comeback in 2010 and I don't want any RINO to fuck that up.  The elected conservatives are pretty sick of losing seats and are spontaneously growing stones.  I plan to be on them like stink on shit. 

 

274 what is the utility for Republicans to have O. Snowe in the Senate?  She more willing to vote with Democrats than Republicans.

For at least the 5th time...if you want real conservatives in Congress to have any power you need to be in the majority. Are you seriously arguing that you can have working congressional majorities with only solidly red state conservatives?

You can't.

Snowe is useful because with her (and her annoying crap as well) you get Thad Cochran as Chair of Senate Appropriations and not Daniel Inoye. With Snowe and some other squishy Republicans you get David Vitter, Jeff Sessions, John Cornyn chairing committies and sub-committies and not Ted Kennedy, John Kerry and Russ Feingold.

Look at where the Republicans lost seats and therefore the majorities in the last few years. Here's a hint, it's not because Texas is sending fewer Republicans to the House, it's because NY, PA, CT, MN, MI, IL, CA are now sending fewer. Noe Congressmen from those states won't be as conservative as ones from Alabama or Arizona or whatever deep red state you want to name but without them you don't get a majority.

This isn't my opinion mind you...it's simply what's happened since 1994.

275 From Wiki

On the House side:

The bill was reported out of the Judiciary Committee in November 1963, and was then referred to the Rules Committee, whose chairman, Howard W. Smith, a Democrat from Virginia, indicated his intention to keep the bill bottled up indefinitely. It was at this point that President Kennedy was assassinated. The new president, Lyndon Johnson, utilized his experience in legislative politics and the bully pulpit he wielded as president in support of the bill.

[...]

The bill came before the full Senate for debate on March 30, 1964 and the "Southern Bloc" of southern Senators led by Richard Russell (D-GA) launched a filibuster to prevent its passage. Said Russell "We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states."^[5]


Votes for the 1964 Civil Rights Act by Party

The original House version:^[9]

Democratic Party: 152-96   (61%-39%)Republican Party: 138-34   (80%-20%)

The Senate version:^[9]

Democratic Party: 46-21   (69%-31%)Republican Party: 27-6   (82%-18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:^[9]

Democratic Party: 153-91   (63%-37%)Republican Party: 136-35   (80%-20%)

276 and yes, that fucking moron forced me to do the research he should have done before typing his fucking lame ass talking points.

Feh.

277 If your plan is to become a majority Republican Party by appealing to Northeast moderates (and whatever conservatives there are left up there) then I'm afraid you are in for a monumental disappointment. The Northeast is solidly Democrat, and no amount of McCains or Guilianis is ever going to make them vote GOP nationally.

It's a hard truth, but the NE is a lost cause. I believe I have seen the last NE state vote GOP(NH,2000) in a Prez election in my lifetime(fifty).

The task of the GOP is to figure out how, if possible, they can win without the NE. Daunting task, considering the electoral college realities.

But they aren't going to do it by alienating their considerable and loyal conservative base while chasing after moderate ghosts.

278 and of course the 1964 Civil Rights Act was proceeded by

The Civil Rights Act of 1960 was a United States federal law that established federal inspection of local voter registration polls and introduced penalties for anyone who obstructed someone's attempt to register to vote or actually vote.

The Senate's debate over the passage of this bill actually started on February 29, 1960. However, a group of 18 Southern Democrats divided into three teams of six in order to be able to create a continuous filibuster wherein each member would only have to speak for four hours every three days. This system resulted in the longest filibuster in history, lasting over 43 hours from February 29 to March 2. On the morning of March 2nd, only a fifteen-minute break was allowed before the Senate sat for another 82 hours. By the time the 24-hour sessions were called off by majority leader Lyndon Johnson, the Senate had sat for 125 hours and 31 minutes minus a fifteen-minute break.

The act was signed into law by President Dwight Eisenhower on May 6, 1960.

279 which was proceeded by

The goal of the 1957 Civil Rights Act was to ensure that all African Americans could exercise their right to vote. By 1957, only about 20% of African Americans had registered to vote. The Democratic Senate leader, Lyndon Baines Johnson, realized that the bill and its journey through Congress could tear apart his party made up of anti-civil rights and pro-civil rights members. Johnson sent the bill to the judiciary committee led by Senator James Eastland, an anti-civil rights senator from Mississippi. Eastland changed and altered the bill almost beyond recognition after the very public outburst by Senator Richard Russell from Georgia who claimed that it was an example of the Federal government wanting to impose its laws on states. Johnson sought recognition from the civil rights advocates for passing the bill while also receiving recognition from the mostly southern anti-civil rights Democrats for "killing the bill."

Because of Democratic opposition and amendment of The Civil Rights Act of 1957, it was largely ineffective in its enforcement and its scope. Statistical history notes that by 1960, slightly fewer blacks were voting in the South than had been in 1956.

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