1 "Allah agrees this is the right policy move, but questions if it's the right political move."

By God- Do WE NO LONGER CARE if it is THE RIGHT THING TO DO????

2 VOTE NO. or lose me forever.

3 they need to kill it. Obviously, the second shoe dropping will be the elimination of Bush tax cuts. And if GOP members voted for the turd sandwich, then they will be on the hook to kill tax cuts too.

Ace is right, half assed me tooism isn't really a winning strategy. 

For God's sake, Congressional GOP's, talk to an economist.  Figure out an alternative.  Point out the flaws of the current plan.  Speak truth to power or something. 

4 Nice to see Republicans grow a pair for a change. Hope it continues.

5 I don't share your faith in "getting the message out."  Keep in mind who the messengers are.  They will formulate the message that goes out in a year and a half.

6 Worrying if the media coverage will be disastrous for the GOP is what makes the GOP a disaster.

Perhaps if they'd notice that even with the media, schools, immigration, and various secretaries of state aligned against them, they STILL manage to get almost half the vote. What if they went on principle and trusted the people to figure it out? The word must be getting out somehow. The word is getting out, opposition to blanket coverage in the news.

Accepting all the ground rules and premises from the left cannot work.

If they continue to triangulate themselves according to the best advice of the media- well, why vote Republican for your socialism when you can get the real thing from the Democrats?

7

Kneel before Barry!

 

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama met face-to-face Tuesday with congressional Republicans who have been chafing over parts of a $825 billion plan to pull the country out of recession, and he urged lawmakers to "keep politics to a minimum" and quickly approve the measure.

 

Don't ask questions. Obey!

8 Question: We know the media will, if the economy rebounds, try to credit one B. Hussein Obama for the recovery...



... but will there even be a Mainstream Media in 2 years the way the Print Media (Newspapers, Magazines) is dying?


Ratings are down in the Networks, too...

9 Recovery in 2010? What a doe-eyed optimist you are.

10 Considering that the media has already and probably irreversibly taught the public to hate the GOP (not that the GOP didn't help in that), what would it matter to have an increase in public contempt? Most people view the Ds and Rs as being essentially the same party and, in DC, they really are. So why not fight back against the Dem's porker of a "stimulus" and secure base votes rather than trying to win over the squishy middle? I'll have a tiny bit more respect for the GOP if they stand firm against this bullshit "stimulus."

Here's a thought, GOP: Let's try being the party of limited government again.

11 Even politically, opposing the bill is better than supporting it. Differentiation is crucial, and even if the economy improves and the bill seems to "work", Republicans supporting it will get ZERO credit for it when the Narrative is published, whereas Republicans opposing would still be able to point to all the waste and frivolity in the bill.
But, as per comment#1, doing the right thing should still be the most compelling reason to oppose it.

12 "After all, the economy probably (hopefully) will recover, without government intervention, by the 2010 midterms."

Umm, 2010 midterms are 21 months away.  No way does the economy recover by then.

But let's say I'm wrong and it does.  At no cost? No higher inflation? Doubtful.

13 Here's a thought, GOP: Let's try being the party of limited government again.

Yup. "Democrat Lite" really isn't a winning brand, as we've seen.

14 Anyone else have trouble with these Cnn videos embedding in Firefox?
Any solutions?

15 dudes, it's just a recession. the economy is cyclical.  Panic is inappropriate.  Panicking was Bush's and Mackerel's biggest mistake. Of course the libs would panic, but someone needed to speak up for the market.

16 Stake out a clear tax-payer friendly position, and invite the Blue Dogs to join you as you point out the reason they got elected in the first place was NOT because they were perceived as liberal tax & spenders.

17 A $1,000,000,000,000.00 maxed out Mastercard? Priceless

18 Republicans need to take a page from the Alinski/Grasmci playbook and read it out loud to the press - this package isn't designed to stimulate the economy, it is designed to drive it further into crisis.  Exactly as FDR's package did.  It's designed to do that to in order to further increase the power of Government in our lives.

They need to stress the answer is less Government not more. Quote Reagan, a lot. If the left wants a crisis, lets show them a roadmap out the crisis that leads to a Fair Tax.  Maybe that will scare them into some moderation and compromise.

19 I'm holding out for this "Obama for America" aka, Organization for America campaign that Obama's campaign chief David Plouffe is running.  This is the 10 million strong list filled with true devotees that read the talking points like they are gospel truth.

Recall what happenned to Stanley Kurtz on the Milt Rosenberg program.  Recall what happenned to David Freddoso on the same Milt Rosenberg program.

The campaign talking points were repeated over and over by callers critical of both guests.

When this OFA starts issuing action alerts the Republicans are going to feel the heat.  The costs of phone calls, emails, faxes, and filling out web forms is dropping.  The only constant is time.

Do you think the devotees of the one have the time?

Hold the line, but you're going to need to back them up if you want them to do this.

20 Lt. York, reload and the malformed URL goes away.

21

A choice, not an echo.

Bloated, unaffordable government is not a winner for the GOP. Just ask the House and Senate Republicans in the 2006 cycle.

If you want to see your supporters come back to you, you need to give them a reason.

Bipartisanship for this lard factory of a bill means cooption in Tax and Spend insanity.

22 Allah agrees this is the right policy move, but questions if it's the right political move.

Allahpundit can go pound it out his ass. Doesn't he get tired of congressionsl Republicans rolling over like $3 whores for every Democratic push for more socialism? I sure do. And I wish more so-called Republicans did, too.

Sometimes, you have to do the right thing even if it costs.

23 Anyone else have trouble with these Cnn videos embedding in Firefox?
Any solutions?

I can't view them.  Just says "undefined".

I haven't looked up a fix. My fix right now is "don't watch CNN".  It's working rather well.

24 Hmmm thought Barry already told them he won. What more is there to say. Shut up you silly republi-brats, put on the dunce cap and go sit in the corner.

Funny that the one is lobbying the brats to get there support right now. Wonder if he is nervous that Pelosi and here clique of cool kids are going to burn him. Maybe he really is smarter than we give him credit for.

25 After all, the economy probably (hopefully) will recover, without government intervention, by the 2010 midterms; and yet the media and Democrats will claim it's all due to the stimulus. Won't that be disastrous for the GOP?

Dude, it's too late.  We already had a freaking stimulus package and the slide to socialism is on.

And we just lost the damn election because the GOP was worried what the fucking in-the-tank media would think.  BE CONSERVATIVES and the nation will respond.  Why do you think thousands and thousands of people turned out to see Sarah Palin even though the media loathed and belittled her?

Worrying if the media coverage will be disastrous for the GOP is what makes the GOP a disaster

Exactly.

26 look! a pony!

27 "Lt. York, reload and the malformed URL goes away."

Thank you.  Unfortunately, like Gabriel, I still have the problem.

28 Heres more insight on the subject. http://tinyurl.com/ajk59p

29 The GOP has already committed suicide, they just didn't do it very well and are still flopping around, but they will soon be dead.  Who in their right mind would trust the GOP now?  This is an opportunity for someone else to really move into power.  In 1854, the Whigs fell apart and the GOP was created.  Six years later the GOP won the White House.  And that was before the era of mass communication.  Somewhere out there, there is an upstart looking for a chance . . . .

30 Fine, Obama won.  He and the Democrats can own the bill.  Republicans need to show a clear break from Democrat belief/policy and show a clear alternative that can relate to joe schmoo on the street and highlight the benefits they would receive at their level that far exceeds what checks the Dems send them every month.

31 The media is going to hate conservatives no matter what we do.  Bush could have singlehandedly cured AIDS and he would have been criticized for putting a whole bunch of activists out of work.  Get used to it and go about your business hating big government.

32 Interesting math:

300 million people in the US
4.7% unemployment, or approx. 14 million.

If you invest 1 trillion directly into employment, all of the 14 million people in the US that are unemployed get $71,428 jobs this year.

But of course, that would mean that they would actual have to go to work and do something, we wouldn't be able to by condoms for them and ACORN would have to function like all the legitimate non-profits on earth and get it's money from private donations instead of Uncle Sam Obama.

Here's a plan- call up the top 5% of employers in key industries for future growth. Companies that aren't facing bankruptcy, making bogus loans based on skin color or buying private jets. Preferably small businesses that do something other than catering to long term unemployed minorities and H1B workers. Ask them all to present a business plan that takes into account an investment from the Fed of a percentage of a trillion dollars. Whoever has the best plan gets cut a check.

This results in instant jobs, instant growth and a significant return on investment within 5 years.

33 Lt. York, I happens to me when I move to another tab.  Refresh fixes it repeatedly.  Don't know your setup - although Reloading is usually a good solution for most of life's problems.

34

In doing some research this morning I found that the average link of a recession since WWII has been 8 months. If they do not do the FDR thing and drive the economy from a recession into a depression for years this will be over by the end of this year and a recovery will start.

 

As I said this morning on a similar thread, any one want to bet on how that shit head McLame votes?

35 How do you fight elected so-called representatives who think it is fine to have the sheriff put a gun to your head and demand that you hand over your cash for some nebulous collective good?  What about my good?  I hope the GOP grows a set and opposes this, but we are talking about the same party that helped appoint a tax cheat to head the IRS because it was for the good of the collective.  What is another trillion between friends, and to hell with principles.

I get so angry about this that I get a bit incoherent, sorry.

36 Yo President Obama...Clench this!

37 I am claiming a $1 trillion tax exemption this year for failure to deliver my Skittle shitting unicorn and filing via TurboTax

Geither better get me my check quickly or I am sending him a bill for accrued interest from Jan. 20th.

38 What, they couldn't grow a pair yesterday before the Geithner vote? (Senate side)

"Ace is right, half assed me tooism isn't really a winning strategy."
Right, if they are going to act like Democrats-lite, why bother with them at all when they can vote for the 'real thing' instead.

Keep in mind too that the stimulus is just a part of what they want to spend money on. There is a pile of new bills waiting for passage that spend a ton more money on crap. (Like S-Chip)

39 WalrusRex: Outstanding.  We got a Whigs crashing ref at AOSHQ.  Fuck yeah!

40 So, shocker of shockers, the Democrat controlled CBO has quickly put out a new report, and claims now that 65$ of the total spending of the "stimulus" will be out the door by 2010, and a significantly higher fraction of the infrastructure, too.

Yeah, and know stooges like Steve Benen are trying to say the first report wasn't accurate at all so the CBO had to correct all their mistakes.

41 Allah had a lot more balls when he was on fucking blogspot posting photoshops of Howard Dean and John Kerry.

All this "triangulation" bullshit he's into now is sickening. Having principles includes being willing to lose elections. But we haven't even tried that, yet! The next Republican who makes a national stand on conservative principles will be the first. Boehner's rhetoric is encouraging, but I'm not holding my breath.

Compromise is for details like implementation. Allah's been a lot more worried about "electoral viability" than conservative principles for some time now.

Thank God I would not be welcome in the comments section at Hot Air. I don't want any of that unwashed pussy-smelling stink of defeatism to rub off on me.

42 don't beat up on allah-- it's a good question.

Frankly, I've forecasted doom like this for a while-- for the reasons he mentions. We've been told crisis crisis crisis for a long time. When the economy recovers-- as it will -- obama will be praised

43 that said, I also don't see the benefits of me-tooism.

44

You know... for 825 Billion dollars... I bet we could blow up the Moon.

Which would be cool.

45 That's only because so far, conservatives, save for a few, are unwilling to get loud and shape the message. We spend all our time worrying about what voters will think. Democrats spend all their time TELLING the voters what to think.

Unless and until we are willing to go on the offensive, we will always be reacting to the Democrats' latest move. It's a losing strategy in war, and it's a losing strategy in politics.

46 The Republicans had better stand up and vote this 'stimulus package' down.  Let the Dimwits carry it.  When this farce blows up in their faces, who are they going to blame?  In this new era of 'bi-partisanship' the Republicans will be the whipping boys for all that goes wrong.  The Chosen is never wrong.  Just ask the MSM.  Their credibility is already in the toilet, even libs don't believe what those clowns write any more.

47

Let's be a bit more precise:

Read my purple lips: NoNew Tax Cuts

48 Obama will deliver a tax cut for 95% of Americans. The US will have close to 50% non tax paying citizens, after the mean income requirement to qualify for assistance is raised. The non tax payers (permanent voting block)will recieve a check in the form of a tax rebate, The tax payers will recieve a new tax credit. If you add the two groups it comes to roughly 95%. It gets worse because that does not take into account illegals after they get legalized.

49 Precisely, GarandFan. We've got Barney Fwank on tape saying, "Thewe's no pwobwem wiff Fannie Mae and Fweddie Mac" just a couple of years before they imploded.

He was in charge of their oversight! Did he face any consequences? Hell, no! He blamed George Bush and went out for a leisurely 5-course penis tasting.

Meanwhile, we're supposed to sit on our hands and hope the economy doesn't recover, because then we won't get any credit? We'll NEVER get any credit.

Sitting on your ass hoping the country implodes so you can swoop in with a government solution is the Democrat liturgy. Are we supposed to adopt that, now? How is that distinguishing ourselves from our ideological foes?

50 Politically, supporting the Stimulus is going to be a huge electoral loser.

There's a ton of pensions out there with big time problems.  They haven't been funded.  However, there are also a ton of pensions that are doing just fine because they stuck to the rules, played it safe, paid in the pension on time, and now are being asked what they did right.

They acted like conservatives the way pension funds are supposed to act.  Ditto with the sound banks.

If you break down the bad pensions with the good pensions, 100 zillion spacebucks says the map overlay will show you GOP strongholds as the sound pensions and DEM strongholds as the fucked pensions.

This stimulus is a direct bailout of Democratic party strongholds on governments that have abandoned their fiduciary responsibility for the sake of peace with monopolized labor markets, political foot soldiering, and quasi-ethnocentric social engineering.

Voting for the Stimulus will put you firmly on the downside electorally of the dollar crash.

51 >Allah agrees this is the right policy move, but questions if it's the right political move.

Holy cripe...I find that statement absurd. Am I right in assuming he means that it's the "right" thing to do, but dammit, it just won't get the GOP pols ahead? Ahead in and of what? They're at the bottom of the beltway barrel & are not getting up with the liberal boots firmly fixated on their collective necks. What is going to get the GOP pols ahead is DOING THE RIGHT DAMNED THING. Not kowtowing to the opposition's destructive, dangerous, country-altering plans. For God's sakes.........help the people of this fucking country out...you know, the ones who actually work, pay taxes and generate the actual revenue. Just a thought.

Sorry for the rant. I've about had it with all these assholes.

52

The One has taken a page right out of the FDR playbook. Unfortunately it's the page that needlessly prolonged the Great Depression, but it's also the page that gets you re-elected. Here's the old FDR magic:

Demonize Hoover/ Bush

Demonize Big Business--Main Street not Wall Street

Demonize the wealthy (even though you are wealthy)

Do the Keynesian Shuffle--Obama will make the TVA look like child's play

Dominate the media

Pander shamelessly to special interests

Play politics with the Nazis and Russkies (Iran anyone?)--and we all know how that turned out.

 

Hail to the Chief

53
Is Boehner the boner we've been waiting for?

Stay hard,  Boehner!  Stay hard!

54 The folly of the current stimulus for Democrats is that we still haven't seen the resets on the "Alt-A" and "option ARM" loans that will occur in the next three years, which will trigger a new round of mortgage defaults.
Things may look much more rosy in 4 years, when Obama will be looking for re-election, but 2 years out, it's still going to be rough.  Calling this a "crap sandwich" and voting "no" may look real good next year.

55

So... for a mere $285,000+ per job, we can employ morons to slowly clean up pigeon crap off the signs at Yellowstone National Forest and pay them Union wages with full benefits.

Better than actually producing "real" - ie, private sector jobs.

And we will be sinking ourselves deeper into an unrecoverable multitrillion dollar debt to foreign bondholders.

Let me think..

Stock tip of the day:

USA (NYSE) - short it!

56 Has Eric Cantor lost his Jewness? I don't recall seeing him labeled as a Jew once in the Politico piece.

Ethnic and sectarian hatred ended: check.

Okay, so that's one for Obama. Damn, he's good.

57 By the way, I'm not entirely anti-stimulus.  I think you've got to man the front on cutting taxes.  And real tax cuts, not tax credits on payroll taxes that we'll just have to pay for with tax increases anyway.  I mean permanent tax cuts.

Cut em all.  Throw every bracket a bone.  Increase the tax credits on student loan debt repayment(interest and principle).  Cut dividend taxes.  Cut capital gains taxes.  Cut corporate income taxes.

58 We should all just stop spending money on frivolous crap and tighten our belts. Spend more time with your family, get to know your neighbors. Pay off your credit cards, pay off your car and hunker down for the next four years.  We can deprive these morons of sales tax revenues and get our own selves out of this mess.

59 " rigid soft-Marxist"

Were you going for oxymoron here?

60

We spend all our time worrying about what voters will think. Democrats spend all their time TELLING the voters what to think.

That's an a succinct and insightful comment. Someone tell the GOP leadership to get some notebook paper and write that down.

We need a good marketing consultant.

61 >>>Were you going for oxymoron here?

No, I'm just an idiot.

62

Republicans, per a DrudgeReport link to Fox news, are digging in on funding that could be directed to Acorn.  This looks like a good place to draw a line in the sand.

http://tinyurl.com/cupbvb

 

63 >By the way, I'm not entirely anti-stimulus.<

See, that's what I'm talking about. It's a perfect time to educate the public that "Stimulus" does not have to mean "Government Spending."

When will there be a better opportunity to distinguish ourselves from the Democrats?

Democrat Stimulus = taking your hard-earned dollars and giving them to bums and foreigners.

Republican Stimulus = allowing you to keep more of your money, so you can spend it on the things you need and want.

The distinctions are clear, and they can be made simple. Class warfare can work both ways, and there are a lot of hard-working Americans that are pissed off that they have to tilt nipple to the fucking layabouts that voted for Obama. They must be stirred up and called to action.

All this waiting for crumbs to fall from the Democrat table is demeaning.

64 59 " rigid soft-Marxist"

Were you going for oxymoron here?

I think it's accurate as it stands. Teleprompter Jesus is walking around with a throbbing hard-on from all the Marxist shit he's been able to shove in America's squeakhole.

65 I got news for you.  If this stimulus goes through the economy isn't recovering by 2010 or maybe not even 2015.  There is almost nothing that addresses the need to grow the economy by encouraging savings and investment.  That means there are no tax revenues to pay back this piece of shit.  So they will have to hit businesses and earners to get some money back, hurting savings and investments even further.  This is a disaster.

66

I say take it to the streets while we still can  http://tinyurl.com/9twouc

 

 

67

Ha Ha One thing NO ONE mentioned is SOCIAL SECURITY !

I thought SS was instituted spacifically for TIMES LIKE THESE

68

GOP to electorate:

Obama is giving YOUR money to fund abortions in foreign countries, but can't give YOU a tax cut.

You can't afford to take YOUR kids out to dinner anymore, but his friends at ACORN are getting plenty of YOUR money to help HIM get re-elected.

69 Ace's last point (Dems just don't like tax cuts even though they are politically popular) is reminiscent of the debate where Charlie Gibson asked Obama about cuts in the capital gains tax.  Even when shown that such cuts actually increased federal revenue, Obama still opposed them on some ill-defined grounds of "fairness."

70

Tax cuts? Stimulus packages? Heck, imagine if the US got serious about domestic energy production. The impact on the economy would be tremendous. We have the resources to be 100% energy independent.

71 Hmmmm.

I don't buy it.

What precisely is going to happen in the next two years that'll offset $2+ TRILLION in federal spending?  And that doesn't include the bailout money that many states, such as California with it's $45 billion budget shortfall, are asking for.

How is the global economy going to restart and by what means?  The EU countries are all facing bankruptcy as they try to bailout their banks.  China and India's economies are entirely dependent on others such as the US economy.  Japan's isn't in any shape to do squat.  Africa isn't even in the same millenia.  South and Central America are all defaulting on their government bonds.

In the past it was the USA that rescued the rest of the world but now the US is almost completely tapped out.  And this trillion dollar pile of bullshit is looking to suck the last of American liquidity out of the system.  The only serious pile of big money left is the liquidity in the 401(k) plans.

And I can imagine the Democrats announcing that the situation is dire enough that they'll have to use eminent domain to take the entire 401(k) system and dump the cash into new spending.  But I can't imagine it happening without a lot of screaming going on.

And yes, that -is- legal for them to do it.  Eminent domain isn't just about land.

72 This is what you call a perfect storm that only happens every 25 years............ the Republicans finally had backbone meet spine meet brain!!!

I wish they would have stood the line and went to war on the first TARP but they did not correctly get out to the people what was wrong with TARP, expressed some babble and just looked like idiots who were just obstructing the bill (disconnect between mouth and brain) for the sake of a fight.

A summer and fall of this type of spine and clarity may have me giving the Republicans a Christmas present and have me officially moving back from a registered Independent back to the Party of Lincoln. LOL

73

And I can imagine the Democrats announcing that the situation is dire enough that they'll have to use eminent domain to take the entire 401(k) system and dump the cash into new spending.  But I can't imagine it happening without a lot of screaming shooting going on.

FTFY

74 Hmmmm.

@ VJay

Yeah I can see that.

The thing to consider is that a half year ago there was some talk + movement to "allow" people to roll their 401(k) plans into a new Social Security v2.0.  The problem being that there would have to be enough people enrolled to make it financially viable and thus perhaps requiring Congress to pass a law to make 401(k) plans much less attractive to retirement investors.  Such as eliminating the tax advantage of investing in 401(k) plans.

Frankly I think the Democrats are going to consider looting the 401(k) system as an action of last resort.  But if they blow a trillion dollars on the bullshit they've outlined so far that last resort will come pretty damn quick.  Pelsoi has run so roughshod over the Republicans in the House that if the tables get turned the Democrats are going to be eating shit sandwiches for some time.  And they definitely don't want that so they'll do anything to avoid it.

Even looting retirement plans of private citizens under the guise of necessity.

75 Government can't take property for public use by eminent domain without paying just compensation for it.  See the last clause of the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution, otherwise known as the Takings clause.  In other words, they can't nationalize your 401(k).

But I wouldn't put it past them to try...

76 44

You know... for 825 Billion dollars... I bet we could blow up the Moon.

Which would be cool.

This is a typical post for this site: Unintentionally brilliant.  What made Roosevelt so popular is that his spending had a brand name: TVA, NRA, etc. People could point to it and say that it was their government working hard for them.

Obama is proposing run-of-the-mill pork.  If he'd proposed something bold, akin to the Interstate Highway System or the space program, he'd be able to parlay it into something that would make him popular for decades.

He's a small thinker, even smaller than Clinton was, and will be absolutely rolled by Pelosi.  Hell, he's being rolled by the Republican House members.  How pathetic is that?

77 AmishDude put his finger on it - Obama is a small thinker (which goes with the general pettiness he tends to demonstrate).  Imagine if he announced some huge new technology-based initiative with a tangible goal (say, a manned mission to Mars - as opposed to the squishy green tech crap).  He could talk all day about how the technology spinoffs from the program would reverberate through the economy for the next 50 years.

Instead, we're all getting condoms...

78 Eh.  Wild, dirty fucking is still free.  Let's see Obama tax that.

79 Hmmm.

@

"Government can't take property for public use by eminent domain without paying just compensation for it.  See the last clause of the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution, otherwise known as the Takings clause.  In other words, they can't nationalize your 401(k)."

Sorry but -no-. 

The key words are "just compensation".  The process, as outlined, would be that the real money in 401(k) plans would be "just compensation" by fake money in a Social Security v2.0.  The idea being that both the 401(k) and SS2.0 are both retirement plans and are thus unavailable until you reach a specified age or other conditions.  So if you had $100k in your 401(k) plan and the Democrats took your retirement money, using eminent domain, but then gave you $100k in your SS2.0 account that would -be- just compensation.

Only problem of course is that SS2.0 has an annual return of 3%, which is pretty crappy, you can't touch the money until at least 65 and only a portion of the money can be withdrawn at any time.

Technically I think it's a sound legal argument.  I also think it would move people to start killing off their legislators, which I would approve greatly.  But let's face facts here.  After the Democrats waste $1 trillion dollars on this bullshit they call a "stimulus package" I don't think there will be much money left.  But then there's that $2-$3 trillion pile of cash sitting in 401(k) accounts administered by all of these banks and investment companies that have been recently bailed out by the federal government and ....

*shrug* Democrats were discussing this last October.  I doubt it has ever really left their minds as an option.

US News & World Report article:
http://tinyurl.com/6eanm2

80

Government can't take property for public use by eminent domain without paying just compensation for it. 

 

Not true. Government can perform a “regulatory taking” and if it can show that it is needed to perform a “protected public good” or that the taking was less than 85% of the value they do not have to pay you once red cent.

81

Who belches more "uhs" per statement....Obama or Minority Leader Boehner?

Listening to these two is like listening to an autistic sex phone operator.

82

I wouldn't be too sure the economy will naturally recover before the 2010 elections or even fully recover before 2012.  This is one of the deepest global contractions we've seen.  Britain is in its worst recession since 1921 and perhaps since records were kept after Q1 numbers come out.  Some analysts are arguing Britain is nearing default which would likely collapse the global financial system (and the pound is in a free fall as a result).  Japan contracted at a 20% annual rate last quarter, Korea and Singapore by nearly 25%.  Eastern Europe is contracting at double digit rates.  Spain, Ireland, and Eastern Europe are looking at 20% unemployment soon.  Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Greece may be nearing defaults as well.  Even Germany had problems selling all of its bunds a few weeks ago.  Global trade is down double digits.  China is decelerating rapidly, trade down, electricity prodution significantly down, 10 million jobs lost (although if you believe Bejieng, all is well, 7-9% GDP growth).

All of these countries need money to ward off depression but its flooding the US bond markets for safety.  We should survive the first go round all right but what happens when Europe and East Asia don't?  What happens when investors no longer have the money or the belief in the US govt to keep buying our bonds?  The second go round should hit us later this year, regardless of the stimulus I don't think we can grow while everyone else is in deep recessions or depressions.

83

"He's turning all that down.

Because he's precisely the rigid soft-Marxist ideologue we always thought."

I think we kind of KNEW that when Charlie Gibson pointed out that raising the capital gains tax would decrease revenue, but Duh One said he would raise it anyway to make it more "fair"...

84 Why hasn't any economist called this stimulus package what it really is?

DEVALUATION OF THE DOLLAR.

If the U.S. economy is what, $13 trillion per year, and Obampkus prints out $2 trillion in stimulus packages, the dollar is devalued by 1/6.

This is just the first step towards repudiation of public debt.

And then we'll become the next Zimbabwe.

On the other hand, I look forward to paying off my mortgage for the price of a loaf of bread some day.

85

It would still be bad, but it would be a much better bill if it simply "gave" $3,000 to every man, woman and child in America.

If we cut tax-rates by a trillion dollars, this economy would explode, unemployment would practically cease and flourishing businesses would be bailing out the government instead of flourishing government bailing out businesses.

Taxes exist not just to fund government, not just to grow government, not just for the social engineering in the tax code or the ability to dole out favors in it; taxes today (including the hidden taxes of litigation and regulation) exist mainly to impoverish middle-class workers so they'll feel the need for government programs.

It is the Statist Project, and Republicans were created by God to stand against it. (That is also why liberals have declared war on every countervailing institution to the Leviatan State: tradition, patriotism, religion, families, marriage, private property, etc.)

Let the Democrats pass it and own it or let it be defeated--either way, we win. That's good policy and good politics. 

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