Bank of Fuckin'America Getting Bailout Now, Too

Here's the thing: The federal government arranged for them to acquire the faltering Merrill Lynch. Now it turns out Merrill was more of a liability than thought, and they're getting bailed out too.

So essentially we're paying the costs for BofA to buy a major company.

That said, it's possible the capital infusions either worked or were never necessary in the first place. So can we stop now?

But back to the market problem overall: Investors continue to ignore one of the very brightest spots in the firmament: Namely, the credit freeze is thawing, according to all manner of key interest rates and spreads. In fact, LIBOR is around 1 percent now, back to where it was in the early summer of 2007 before the crunch started. This means that much of the uncertainty about lending, borrowing, investing, and hiring is receding from the market. This is a very positive sign. While retail sales and jobs are lagging indicators, the credit-market improvement is a leading indicator — pointing to recovery in the economy sometime this spring or summer.

Credit has been unfrozen. So let's stop this nonsense now.

Posted by: Ace at 01:18 PM

Comments

1 How many of us are tearing down the doors at our "representative's" taxpaid luxury digs?

Posted by: Ten at January 16, 2009 01:20 PM (A4rQm)

2
Merrill Lynch?

You mean this Merrill Lynch?

Say it ain't so, Joe!

Posted by: Darling at January 16, 2009 01:23 PM (fSm5X)

3 I see the INVISIBLE HAND is still at work funneling money to the rich.

Posted by: Brian at January 16, 2009 01:26 PM (YrCzB)

4 Now now. B of A needs a bailout to cover for the thousands of credit cards issued to criminal aliens along with all the other financial services they provided (without a SS number) to the criminal alien element. Just a few short years ago an American citizen had to show a photo I.D. and SS number to do business at B of A. A criminal alien didn't even have to speak english. By the way, I paid off and destroyed my B of A credit card at that time.

Posted by: Scrapiron at January 16, 2009 01:27 PM (XWJh5)

5 I don't understand how this is happening. I just paid off the balance on my Bank of America credit card.

Posted by: Michael at January 16, 2009 01:27 PM (siOQ7)

6 HA! HA! Star Tribune files for bankruptcy

Posted by: ol-dirty-/b/tard at January 16, 2009 01:27 PM (IoUF1)

7 Where can I sign up for this bailout extravaganza?

I need some extra cash for Valu-Rite and filet knives.

Posted by: McLovin at January 16, 2009 01:28 PM (RwvN1)

8 ... right after they tripled my interest rate for no reason whatsoever

Posted by: Wolverine at January 16, 2009 01:29 PM (4Td9S)

Credit has been unfrozen. So let's stop this nonsense now.

Yeah, I'm sure they'll get right on that. You know they won't stop the nonsense until well after the economy has recovered. That of course assumes that what they are trying won't actually cause the economy to never recover.

Posted by: buzzion at January 16, 2009 01:34 PM (Lrsi6)

10 This is the same BoA that has NO problems with issuing credit cards to illegals...

FUCK THEM.

Posted by: Unclefacts at January 16, 2009 01:34 PM (M+Vfm)

11 How does one tell the difference between government, organized crime and financial services these days?

Posted by: Jim at January 16, 2009 01:34 PM (4+FYQ)

#11 the criminals have tougher standards ...

Posted by: Wolverine at January 16, 2009 01:39 PM (4Td9S)

13 When does it stop being a bailout and start being simple corruption? Why that's right...immediately.

Posted by: the Obvious at January 16, 2009 01:41 PM (1g+FW)

BoaA buys Countrywide and Merrill, both of which were up to their eyebrows in bad loans and leveraged to the hilt. Due diligence, anyone? Anyone?

Ken Lewis claims he was getting a bargain both times. Turns out he was a getting a bargain. Our money pays for his fuck-ups.

Thanks, Ken.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at January 16, 2009 01:41 PM (QMGr1)

I am looking for a smaller local bank that is stable and hasn't taken any bailout money. Then I'm going to Bank of America and closing my checking and savings accounts. When I do, I'm going to meet with the branch manager and make sure he knows the reason he's losing my business is because Bank of America took bailout money and I won't support them because of it. It will be my own little protest....I'll take my money and leave.

Now I just have to find a bank that hasn't taken bailout money. Where am I gonna find one of those?

Posted by: t.ferg at January 16, 2009 01:43 PM (2YVh7)

16 Ace was for the bailouts before he was against them.

Posted by: John Friggin Kerry at January 16, 2009 01:44 PM (/Ft4q)

17 So lets now stop this nonsense?

It is logical to assume that if the unfreezing of credit was the mission of dumping tanker loads of American workers cash into the banks then we could conclude that mission is accomplished.

So.......credit is unfrozen, companies are going out of buisiness left and right, people with money are now so concerned that they aren't spending it and soon another phalanax of American companies will go by the wayside and along with it, more unpaid credit lines, more forclosures and more unemployment.....But hey, Obama will more than likely get (print/borrow) another trillion dollars to fund even more social programs so we can all feel good about ourselves.

Frankly, the government has done a wonderful job in depressing consumption to such a degree that, I in my near 50 years have not seen.Credit lines are now flowing (so they say) but people just aren't borrowing....their hoarding and I can't say that I blame them.

I am one of the people who will never knowingly buy products from any company that stuffed their pockets full of taxpayer dollars while most of the normal Joe's are basically told to shut up and keep the cash flowing.....Call me reactionary, call me Unamerican when I don't purchase a GM car but the one thing you can never call me again is a sucker....I'm done with all of the bullshit.

See ya guys next month, same bat time, same bat channel where we can continue this ongoing cluster F known as the....bail out.

Posted by: Drider at January 16, 2009 01:45 PM (lwt+p)

18 Yeah, and the MSM will acknowledge the turnaround then and will give sole credit to Obama. With a little creativity they could give Obama the credit now and spin it that just his awesomeness was enough.

Posted by: Old Centurion at January 16, 2009 01:47 PM (Jf1nL)

19 A "credit freeze" was never the problem with the economy. The bailouts didn't have anything to do with "unfreezing" credit and it won't have anything to do with rescuing the economy. The problem was, and is, that people who never should have gotten loans (or loans of the amount they were given) had money shoveled at them, and then they started defaulting and asset values started dropping. What "froze" credit was a lack of liquidity (from defaults and asset devaluation) <i>and a lack of credit-worthy borrowers</i>. Financial institutions couldn't afford to shovel money out the door anymore, and as soon as they got slightly choosey about borrowers and the assets to lend on, the credit "froze." Bailouts and LIBOR don't have much to do with that.

Posted by: Ella at January 16, 2009 01:48 PM (jeP9I)

20 I like P.J. O'Rourke's line:

Bringing the government in to run Wall Street is like saying, "Dad burned dinner, let's get the dog to cook."

Posted by: Bugler at January 16, 2009 01:54 PM (YCVBL)

The point of the bailout was to seize control of the financial industry. That's what FDR did in the 1930s; he didn't care about fixing the economy. He cared about Socializing the economy, and he took his opportunity.

As long as there is a private sector, bailouts will exist to nationalize it. For its own good.

And the economy is still going to tank through 2010 at least. Citi and BofA will still fail. The economic problems are deeper than a Band-Aid bailout, but the survival of the companies was never the point.

Posted by: Ella at January 16, 2009 01:55 PM (jeP9I)

Bank of America?

Maybe Central America.

Posted by: GamerFromJump at January 16, 2009 01:58 PM (G4U47)

23 What do you mean by the heading "too". BoA had already received $25 Billion in TARP money so this $20 Billion is additional. This means Bank of America has now taken $45 billion of government aid, the same amount as Citigroup Inc. By the way how much did the auto companies want? Seems minor in comparison. By the way how come no one has called on the financial firms to give up their corporate jets?

Posted by: Sam at January 16, 2009 01:59 PM (RtnF0)

24 Lay off BOA Ace.

We own that shit now.

Posted by: Kasper Hauser at January 16, 2009 02:00 PM (ZPwZl)

25 If I recall correctly, BofA has a connection to sharia banking.

Posted by: jmb at January 16, 2009 02:00 PM (RHFrv)

26 By the way how come no one has called on the financial firms to give up their corporate jets?

As any leftist can tell you, a car company ordered by the government to create cars nobody wants, is far more evil than the bank that gives them free money.

Posted by: Deathknyte at January 16, 2009 02:07 PM (lRFlR)

27 "...pointing to recovery in the economy sometime this spring or summer."

Sure, just ignore that slobbering, ginormous debt in the corner chewing up our future.

Posted by: PJ at January 16, 2009 02:07 PM (fyFnu)

28 As if those fuckers don't already get enough of my money.

Posted by: George Costanza at January 16, 2009 02:10 PM (z4es9)

So let's stop this nonsense now.

Stop? You haven't been paying attention, have you? The precedence has been set. This is all routine, now.

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at January 16, 2009 02:12 PM (ltwze)

30 As we rocket into financial oblivion, it occurs to me that not only is this bailout slope slippery, but it's also apparently about a 400% grade.

Posted by: Andy at January 16, 2009 02:17 PM (WsTw8)

ah, so now all of a sudden the credit crunch is over? was there ever any proof that one exsisted?

funny how i'm beginning to hear little whispers about the economy improving, amazing how these little whispers seem to be growing as we get closer to the reign of Chicago Jesus...

this isn't over, we haven't even begun to pay the price of the first bailout and they all ready want a bigger one, you can't create boatloads of money out of thin air and not devalue the currency currently in circulation...

the GAO and CNN can play with the numbers all they want, they can paint a thousand rose-colored pictures for The One, but there will be hell to pay for these bailouts and it hasn't even started yet.

Posted by: shoey at January 16, 2009 02:29 PM (IRh55)

So let's stop this nonsense now.

Not gonna happen. Nonsense is what the liberals live for. It gives their barren, meaningless lives purpose.

Posted by: katya at January 16, 2009 02:32 PM (oRJZj)

33 Bank of <s>Italy</s>America needs love too!

Posted by: Larry Sheldon at January 16, 2009 02:37 PM (OmeRL)

34 OK, how about:

Bank of ItalyAmerica needs love too!

Posted by: Larry Sheldon at January 16, 2009 02:39 PM (OmeRL)

35 Hmmm.

Well look at it this way.

Calling it "Bank of America" isn't a metaphor. It's the real thing.

Posted by: memomachine at January 16, 2009 02:40 PM (Qvyp1)

36 Calling it "Bank of America" isn't a metaphor. It's the real thing.

I think the "bank" part is rapidly becoming metaphorical, if not downright fictional.

Posted by: George Orwell at January 16, 2009 02:44 PM (AZGON)

37 By all means, let Citi and BOA fail.

They are both too big and have too much trouble to find buyers. For Citi alone, they have about 80 billion in capital and 300-600 billion in bad loans, who is going to buy that?

So once the losses exceed captital, the FDIC/Fed will have to step in and take over these banks because they insure most of their deposits. S&L deal all over again, only this time 100 times as bad.

In a fire sale, troubled assets fetch about 50% of face value. In a workout, you recover more but you lose the time value of money and it takes much longer.

As of today, the FDIC/Fed has guaranteed to cover at least 400 billion in credit losses for these two banks anyway. This will go up.

So, the thing is that TARP has invested about 60 billion into capital for these two banks. This will go up too. The alternative is to assume at least one trillion in bad loans and getting worse. And this is just two banks.

60 billion in order to avoid assuming a trillion in bad loans? You do the math.

Posted by: Robert at January 16, 2009 02:50 PM (VotgB)

... right after they tripled my interest rate for no reason whatsoever

No shit. My credit card company pulled the same garbage. They just hope you don't read the statement.

Posted by: SalvucciFumbles at January 16, 2009 02:52 PM (YM2u5)

39 For the sake of argument let's postulate that we can bail our way out of this shit. Will someone (I'm talking to you, Kudlow) explain why we don't do as Jerry Pournelle suggests?

Seems more direct, transparent, and cheaper too.

Posted by: George Orwell at January 16, 2009 03:07 PM (AZGON)

40 60 billion in order to avoid assuming a trillion in bad loans? You do the math.

Your assumption is that this bailout will work and there won't be a return trip to the trough. Your optimism is so adorable.

It hasn't worked for Citi so far, its stock continues to plummet. Now "they" are saying not to look at the stock price, its not an accurate picture of Citi's bright and glowing prospect. (C.f. the article in IHT on BofA. Drudge has link.)

Both of these banks are going to fail. We are only postponing the inevitable and trashing our currency in the process.

Posted by: oLD gUY at January 16, 2009 03:33 PM (bqpfP)

41 60 billion in order to avoid assuming a trillion in bad loans? You do the math.

Posted by: Robert

you should run for office.

Posted by: 0.e.koenig at January 16, 2009 04:30 PM (K3zSf)

42 "Bank Bailout in your favor. Go to Baltic Avenue"

Posted by: kbdabear at January 16, 2009 05:44 PM (miw86)

Those guys up there^^^talking about the credit card comps. Watch out for fucking visa, they were dinging me for BS charges until I called them and cancelled my card, with a thankyou&notsofairlyfuckingwell.

Posted by: rd at January 16, 2009 05:46 PM (ECtLn)

It was just a news-crawl that I just saw and not a full report, but it seems Chrysler is getting $1.5-billion to encourge car buyership loans!

Posted by: andycanuck at January 16, 2009 06:10 PM (55TIb)

45 It was just a news-crawl that I just saw and not a full report, but it seems Chrysler is getting $1.5-billion to encourge car buyership loans!

Not even if they throw in a wardrobe of rich Corinthian leather.

"Here's a plate of shit. No money down and 3 % APR and it's all yours"

Posted by: kbdabear at January 16, 2009 06:28 PM (miw86)

46 Posted by: Scrapiron@4..
Ditto

Posted by: sickinmass at January 16, 2009 07:03 PM (/i4dU)

47 Old Guy,

You may be too old to get this, but I will try again.

Absent TARP, Citi would have probably failed already. 45 billion of their 80 billion in capital is from TARP, without it, capital would have fallen below 4%, the point at which FDIC starts to act. FDIC insures these banks and is backed by the full faith and credit of the Fed. The only way to avoid this is to default or close the Government. You think you have problems now.

Citi is setting up a company just for bad loans - 600 billion. So, you (FDIC/Fed) would now be the proud owner of 600 billion in bad loans. Credit crunch reoccurs, other bad stuff happens. This is what you want?

Banks are different from all other bailouts, you already own the problem.

SO YOU HAVE TO PAY A LOT MORE, it is not a question of assumptions or optimism.

If you let all banks with bad loans fail, you would have to cough up more than 10 trillion, the whole U.S. economy is only 14 trillion.

Posted by: Robert at January 16, 2009 07:06 PM (VotgB)

48 George,

Jerry has done a napkin calculation based on his estimates of the costs to bring mortgages current. I will not take on his method because it is not necessary.

In the last several months, the economy has taken a sharp turn for the worse putting all loans at risk, not just mortgages. Today, banks hold many non-performing loans: construction, commercial real estate, credit cards - all have a load of bad debt and the value of the collateral is weak. Another problem is that many adjustable mortgages have not reached their adjust or balloon point, so his estimate of bad loans is low. Even if you brought all past due mortgages current, you would still have a big problem.

Obama and the Democrats will probably try some variation of Jerry's idea, we'll have to wait to see how it works but I doubt if it solves all problems.

Posted by: Robert at January 16, 2009 09:00 PM (VotgB)

49 "I see the INVISIBLE HAND is still at work funneling money to the rich.
Posted by: Brian"

Yeah, exactly.

If you want to see the solution the Founders intended, go read Matthew 3:16. Its the equivalent of the invisible hand split into two hands and nailed to the cross.

Posted by: LiveFreeOrDie at January 16, 2009 09:57 PM (a+N9x)

*tapping fingertips together*

Excellent.

Posted by: China at January 16, 2009 10:09 PM (hKtiw)

51 BofA had resisted the Reserves initial request to take Merrill Lynch. The Fed convinced BofA's execs to take it by agreeing to give them assistance if Lynch became too much of an albatross. Now it is so BofA is calling in its chit.

Was it a great business decision? No. But a bank that big ends up doing things it does not necessarily like in order to keep the right people, regulators etc, happy. Because every time they make an acquisition or purchase there will be some protest or problem so they want the decision makers to be on their side.

A lot of you are saying screw BofA over the illegals credit card thing and I think you are giving them a bum rap. I can't argue facts on that case ( I know of it but not about it) but I do want to say that you have to account for the size of the bank. It had (before the Merril and countrywide buys) around 180,000 employees. Some of them are going to make bad decisions. You can experience this everyday by calling your credit card company. One rep will be knowledgeable and the next may not.

Posted by: alecthemad at January 17, 2009 05:19 AM (dTV2+)

52 You may be too old to get this, but I will try again.

Robert,

Try not to be a condescending asshole, you're shaming your mother.

Absent TARP, Citi would have probably failed already.

Even with TARP, Citi is still failing. We're throwing good money after bad. Its stock is now at 3 and a half bucks and continues to fall. Stocks function as an indicator of the market's diagnosis of future performance, so a lot of people who happen to be a lot smarter than you think otherwise.

Citi is selling SmithBarney to Morgan Stanley, another recepient of TARP funds to the tune of $10 billion as of 1/2/09. Taxpayers are now the largest stock holders of Citi. So to recap, tax money is being used to purchase property owned by taxpayers. Are you having fun yet?

By bailouting these failed buisnesses, you injecting a huge amount of moral hazard into the banking sector. By promising to shelter the large banks from any poor decisions made past, present or future you gaurantee an unending supply of poor deicisions. TARP is now a continually growing cancer whose only logical end is the nationalization of the entire financial sector. Govt beaurocrats deciding if you should get that new car loan. Still having fun?

Posted by: oLD gUY at January 17, 2009 10:04 AM (bqpfP)

53 Old Guy,

Okay you have insulted me enough for a guy who has no clue what is going on.

"We're throwing good money after bad"

- No, we already own a 600 billion dollar problem with Citi, we are trying to limit the damage to about 10% of that. What part of this can't you understand?

"Its stock is now at 3 and a half bucks and continues to fall. Stocks function as an indicator of the market's diagnosis of future performance, so a lot of people who happen to be a lot smarter than you think otherwise."

- The stock price is going down and yes because of expected performance. This does not change the fact that if they fail you will have a bigger problem.

"Moral risk?" WTF? "TARP is now a continually growing cancer whose only logical end is the nationalization of the entire financial sector."

- We now own 6% of Citi, hardly nationalization. Your hyperbole undoes you.

You should not discuss this until you can be less emotional and think a little.

You have said what you don't like about this situation, no one does. But you have not said where you are going to get the trillion needed when these two banks fail or what it will do to the financial sector. They fail, credit crunch comes back, LIBOR goes back up, confidence is lost.

And we have lots of banks in trouble, not just two, and not all because of bad decisions, mostly because of a bad economy. To let all of the troubled banks fail would be 1932 again, worse. You seriously can't want that kind of trouble.

Failure is not an option.

Posted by: Robert at January 17, 2009 01:51 PM (VotgB)

54 The term is not moral risk, it is moral hazard. It is a well defined term in economics. If you don't know what it is then try a little humility next time.

We now own 6% of Citi, hardly nationalization. Your hyperbole undoes you.

6% makes the federal govt the largest shareholder. That is a bad thing all by itself. However, I did not say we HAVE nationalized, I said that it was the natural end point of this progression. Don't put words in my mouth. As far as hyperbole, the UK and Iceland have already nationalized their banks, their govts are majority stockholders, not just largest. Germany is actively considering it as well. Given those examples, your claim that it is hyperbole does not carry much weight.

not all because of bad decisions, mostly because of a bad economy

This credit crunch was virtually all due to poor decision making, not a bad economy. A bubble formed in the housing market because of excessive lending to people unable to pay. Those were decisions made by the banks. They started making those decisions because they were forced to by the Community Reinvestment Act. They did this with the implication from Congress that they would be covered if things went bad. They then started bundling the debt, good with bad and realized they could make quick profits on the resale. Since these new derivatives were selling so well, this led to more bad debt with even less creditworthy customers. Why were they selling well? Because there was still the implication that the govt would back up any large scale failures. This is what is known as moral hazard. It is the sheltering of a business from the consequences of its own bad decisions. It will continue until banks are once again under the disciple of a free market.

You say that if we didn't do anything, then we would be on the hook for a trillion dollars in bad loans. Well doing something puts us on the hook for 700 billion, which is pretty close to a trillion already. Couple that with the 1-1.5 trillion stimulus package and we are already further in the hole then if nothing had been done. This is with the assumption that TARP ends with the 700 billion. Look at the banks now. Do you think they are going to ask for more money? Are you willing to state that this whole mess ends with the 700 billion? If so, let me know.

I am sorry if you were insulted. Look, this thread is old and we are just shouting at each other to no effect. Lets wait for the next thread about this to come by and continue then. Once again, my apologies. Have a good weekend.

Posted by: oLD gUY at January 17, 2009 03:11 PM (bqpfP)

Gentlemen,

A basic problem (IMHO), is that someone actually has to MANAGE the bad/toxic assets to a final conclusion/disposition. The government and the FDIC, do NOT have the ability to handle a task of that magnitude. It does not have the expertise, the operations, or the systems. Paulson talked about "buying up" the bad stuff--but quickly dropped that tack once implications sunk in. That's why Paulson was twisting Lewis' arm with respect to Merril Lynch. I think Lewis' error was in not initially putting more of the acquisition risk onto Treasury--the deal was done so fast, there is no way anyone could have made an accurate estimate of what the bottom was. Too greedy?? Too many stars in his eyes?? When McColl bought FirstRepublic, anything that even smelled "off" was put to a "bad" bank operated by bank personnel, and funded and managed at the risk of the FDIC--for those reasons. Treasury didn't want Merril Lynch to fail--the counterparty risk implications in the market were just too pervasive. Hence the additional funds and the guaranties backing the acquired ML assets.

Another issue for BofA is that of culture. Commercial bankers are from Mars, and investment bankers are from Venus. The cultures simply do not mesh very well. They are fundamentally different. Look how many times BofA has stumped its toes in the investment banking arena that it has worked so hard to enter from scratch.

BofA's core business, prior to CW and ML acquisitions was in fairly sound shape. They do a good job of assessing and managing risk in businesses that they truly understand. Who knows what kind of arm twisting went on when Paulson and W sat the then solvent bankers down and basically told them to sign up for the initial government capital injections.

BofA shareholders and managers are in for a long bumpy ride as they come to fully understand and work through what they have acquired--via shotgun marriage or otherwise. I fear that they are going to need the talent and demonstrated expertise of many of the senior folks that are presently getting the ax as they cut costs.

Even scarier are the implications that go with geniuses like Frank and Dodd that have called many of the shots that have already fouled the financial markets world wide. They are still in positions to doadditional terrible damage in the future.

Posted by: Gabby at January 17, 2009 05:41 PM (uHd0A)

56 Old Guy,

You are right this is old, have a good weekend. Your math is still off by the way, you are stretching to make an equivalence between one trillion in bad loans for these two banks and the entire TARP, one half yet to be expended. You should be comparing one trillion to the 60 billion we have invested in these two banks. I know it will go up.

Gabby,

FSLIC and Resolution Trust Corp. managed 500 billion plus in the S&L thing. It was done badly, expensively and involved political favors - all in all, not what you want, but at that point there was no other choice.

That said, your point is well taken. In that past action we had to build a huge complex organization that was inefficient. Better to have the bank do it with some help from Fed.

There is also the matter of leverage. Brown's idea, adopted by us, means that if you put 100 billion into capital, it can support a trillion in assets or so. If you just buy bad loans, it is one for one.

Posted by: Robert at January 17, 2009 06:03 PM (VotgB)

57 BofA new exactly what they were doing with the illegal credit shit. It was conceived and implemented from the top down.

And they let their major investors (and anyone else paying close attention) know of their intention to implement that policy.

Posted by: LiveFreeOrDie at January 17, 2009 10:17 PM (ewLc/)

Robert,

The the RTC was staffed, largely, by folks that the FDIC wanted to get rid of anyway. They hired contractors to do the work that they were in no way capable of doing, and set up redundant "shadow" organizations to read reports that the contractors prepared. They started out using a variation of the FDIC template that worked in the disposition of FirstRepublic's "bad" assets in Texas. Then, they discovered the wonderful world of securitization, and moved the entire mess off the radar screen--it (the mess) serving as collateral for the securities. That process, of course, also required other contractors to service the real estate backed loans that served as collateral for the securities. The RTC was hideously political and inefficient, and made lots of mistakes that cost us taxpayers big dollars.

The size of the problem that we wrestle with in today's financial markets is several magnitudes greater than what brought down the entire S&L industry.

Your point on using leverage available to otherwise sound banking institutions is spot on. The banks already have systems and expertise to deal with the problems and the strategy allows the "TARP" to be stretched over significantly larger piles of financial nastiness while the markets recover, and remediation can take place.

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