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| Heisman Trophy Award Show (genghis)Just started (8 p.m. Eastern) on ESPN. This year is predicted to be one of the closest votes in Heisman history. All three finalists had insanely good seasons. Update: Oklahoma QB Sam Bradford wins the Heisman. Good luck to all three finalists in their bowl games. (Well, except Tim Tebow...please have a mediocre game for once.)CommentsPosted by: uncle rico at December 13, 2008 08:17 PM (FAgoX) 2
I'm too busy watching a documentary on the Presidency of FDR. Fascinating stuff.
Posted by: conservativeinthecity at December 13, 2008 08:18 PM (AxoS/) 3
All stats favor McCoy?
Really? Top ten defenses faed? 0 Top 20?0 Top fifty? 1 Top 70? out of 120 odd div 1 teams? 2 The rest of his games are in the lower 50. Tebo faced top 10, top 20 and top 50 defenses in all but one game...four times as much as the other two. Tebo has given up a 20 rushing td season to let Harbin and others have more of the ball, and let his back up take over the second half of several games. McCoy and the other dude whose name escapes me, both played every down they could and still lost more that Fla lost with Tebo letting others have more hands on the football this year. Tebo should get it more this year than last, and McCoy and the other guy were good but not great. take them out of Texas or whatever and their teams still win 10 or 11 games anyway. Take Tebo out of Fla and they go 8 for 12, maybe less, so Tebo is the stuff that a potential National Championship is made of, and he deserves this hghly overated award. Thus ends the lecture. Posted by: enter sandman at December 13, 2008 08:26 PM (zxaA2) 4
1 all stats favor mccoy Not all stats, but many do. You can also argue he was more of an impact player regarding the success of UT this year. Along with his record-breaking passing stats, he was also the leading rusher on the team. McCoy might also get some sympathy votes since a lot of people feel that Texas got screwed by the tiebreaker system in the Big 12. Even if that factor is at play, it should take nothing away from McCoy. Any one of the three finalists are worthy of the award. (And I say that as an OU alum) It's a damn shame that TTU's Harrell didn't get invited to the ceremony. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 08:31 PM (1XErj) 5
Just saying, and I am NOT a Fla fan. I happen to basically hate the Gators and the Semenholes and they are from a state that I loathe for my own personal reasons, so I look at this objectively.
Tebo should win but probably won't, and I personally think Texas's running backs should be under consideration for this, and I also think there are several other potential 1st and 2nd rounders who have been overlooked in this year's Heisman voting, and I think they are on their way to giving the award to the wrong guy yet again. Answer a simple question: Just how many of these vaunted SEC QB's are highly rated NFL QBs right now? Not many. Not many at all. I think Tebo should get it but I think the fix is already in on this one. Posted by: enter sandman at December 13, 2008 08:32 PM (zxaA2) 6
Tebow, not Tebo:my bad.
Posted by: enter sandman at December 13, 2008 08:36 PM (zxaA2) 7
I personally think Texas's running backs should be under consideration for this... Are you drunk? McCoy was the top rusher at Texas, with less than 600 yards rushing. OU had two running backs who got over 1000 yards. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 08:36 PM (1XErj) Posted by: James at December 13, 2008 08:40 PM (S1ttf) 9
I think it should go to Tebow or McCoy. Both those players had HUGE impacts on their team and its success. Bradford was surrounded by too much talent and had a lot of help along the way.
Admittedly, I'm not a big NCAA fan, I've only recently started paying more and more attention to it as my poor Lions are getting closer to 0-16. Posted by: conservativeinthecity at December 13, 2008 08:40 PM (AxoS/) 10
I voting for McCoy's mom for milf of the Heismans
Posted by: robtr at December 13, 2008 08:40 PM (uJzOr) 11
4,464 yards and 48 touchdowns. How is Tebow or McCoy even close. Sounds like there are still some bitter clingers in here over their exclusion from the big dance. Bradford should win, however politics will prevent it again.
Posted by: doonuts at December 13, 2008 08:51 PM (7dM8y) 12
And Sandman, as for strength of schedule, OU played the following this year, all ranked currently except for Kansas, who was ranked around #12 I think at the time: #12 Cincinnatti, #11 TCU, #13 Oklahoma State, #3 Texas, #7 Texas Tech. Those are the final BCS rankings, but several of those teams were ranked a lot higher at the time of the game. And they obliterated Missouri in the Big 12 Championship...they were ranked around #10 or #11 at the time. And OU hung, 28 points on a decent, bowl-bound, Nebraska team in the first 6 minutes of that game. Texas and Texas Tech had equally brutal schedules.
Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 08:54 PM (1XErj) 13
I look at it much in the same way I look at the NFL MVP. If I had to start a team from scratch, who would I want to build my team around?
I'd take McCoy or Tebow over Bradford. Posted by: conservativeinthecity at December 13, 2008 08:54 PM (AxoS/) 14
Never Mind...BOOMER SOONER!!!!
Posted by: doonuts at December 13, 2008 08:55 PM (7dM8y) 15
Bradford wins!!! I'm kinda' surprised.
Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 08:55 PM (1XErj) 16
And that's exactly why I'm not an NCAA coach.
Posted by: conservativeinthecity at December 13, 2008 08:56 PM (AxoS/) Posted by: Indian outlaw at December 13, 2008 08:58 PM (RSRH4) 18
Bradford is a bum, and FLA is going to kick his ass, just like every team from either the Big 12 or Big 10 or Pac 10 does every year to the SEC. Non-SEC college teams are a joke Posted by: geoff - anti-Harkonnen freedom fighter at December 13, 2008 09:00 PM (5r0Tz) 19
Now here's an interesting tidbit. Tebow actually recieved MORE 1st place votes than both McCoy and Bradford, yet finished 3rd.
Weird. Posted by: conservativeinthecity at December 13, 2008 09:01 PM (AxoS/) 20
They just showed the vote tally...Tebow actually got the most 1st place votes, so it's kinda' like winning the electoral college vote, but losing the popular vote.
Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 09:02 PM (1XErj) 21
We'll find out Jan 8 in Miami who really should have won the trophy.
Posted by: al at December 13, 2008 09:02 PM (3F/BK) 22
Ok-UF..It's gonna be a great game! He wins last, laughs last! Go Gators. Posted by: Indian outlaw at December 13, 2008 09:03 PM (RSRH4) 23
Go Gators.
Ok can't strike lightning thrice. First the BCS bullshit of passing Texas, then this guy beating Tebow even though he got less votes. What next? They tie Florida and the officials decide to give it to them because they had better Time of Possession? Posted by: James at December 13, 2008 09:06 PM (S1ttf) 24
Damn, there are way too many whiney bitches in this place tonight. You would think there were a bunch of koskidz in here.
Posted by: doonuts at December 13, 2008 09:09 PM (7dM8y) 25
And as far as SEC v. Big 12...I remember Arkansas goin down in flames last year to somebody, who was it, oh yeah Mizzou, a big 12 team. SEC is overrated, overhyped, and overmatched this year.
Posted by: doonuts at December 13, 2008 09:11 PM (7dM8y) 26
Yeah, this isn't gonna' go down well on all the sports discussion boards, but it'll give everyone something to be outraged over for the next few weeks. Everyone outside the state of Oklahoma is gonna' be pulling for the Gators. I just hope OU doesn't do its annual post-season faceplant and can actually prove they belong in the game, and that Bradford deserved to win the Heisman. I would've actually preferred McCoy or Tebow to win it, if for no other reason than that OU plays best when it has a chip on its shoulder. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 09:13 PM (1XErj) 27
18
Bradford is a bum The guy's a college kid fer chrissakes. What, do you think he rigged the vote? Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 09:15 PM (1XErj) Posted by: Indian outlaw at December 13, 2008 09:19 PM (RSRH4) 29
I'm a Sooner fan and I think McCoy should have won. Texas would have gone 8-4 at best without him. Not that OU would have fared much better without Bradford, nor Florida without Tebow. They were all worthy.
I agree with genghis, I wish it had gone to Tebow. Remember what OU did to Florida State when Josh Heupel was snubbed for Chris Weinke? The foot's on the other hand now. Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at December 13, 2008 09:19 PM (Ulsfn) Posted by: geoff - anti-Harkonnen freedom fighter at December 13, 2008 09:22 PM (5r0Tz) Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at December 13, 2008 09:23 PM (Ulsfn) 32
The Heisman award should really be handed out after the BCS championship game, even though winning the title doesn't automatically mean you're the best player in the country (and often the best player isn't even in the title game.) But still, it should factor in at least a little. Like most everyone else, I'd love a playoff system too, (the more games the better) but as long as the bowls and univ. presidents oppose it, it ain't likely to happen. A lot of coaches are starting to support the idea though, so...who knows? Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 09:29 PM (1XErj) 33
As a Longhorn I'd get into a whole Big XII south is better than the entire SEC thing with y'all but I'm too busy hoping Florida flips OU over and does the wheelbarrow to them.
Posted by: tachyonsnuggy at December 13, 2008 09:30 PM (gljje) 34
Longhorn? I'm long and horny.
Posted by: RAWMUSCLGLUTES at December 13, 2008 09:35 PM (ksVcc) 35
An extremely high percentage of nationally published or televised College Football Commentators (read: Professionals) will agree that the SEC sets the bar for all others to follow.
Don't listen to those local yokels who talk about how tough their team is, you have to compare and compete on the National stage. The Big 12 can stroke themselves silly, but the rankings are just not justified. I would bet on Vanderbilt beating Missouri 4 out of 5 times. Remember how stoked Hawaii was last year, pissed about not being in the Nat Champ BCS Game? Georgia spanked them like a red-headed stepchild. Hawaii's Heisman-candidate QB said after the game that Georgia had the fastest Defense he had ever "EVER!" seen. And they were not the SEC's best last year. This kind of talk will continue until we get a playoff system. Screw the BCS, and screw the AP and Writers Pollsters, who inflate the standings of the team their local boys (or Alma Maters) are facing in the coming weeks so they can get "quality wins" over ranked opponents. Florida over Oklahoma by at least 2 Touchdowns, and the Sooners fail to get 300 yards total offense. You heard it here first. Posted by: TXMarko at December 13, 2008 09:44 PM (yRb81) 36
Also, isn't McCoy coming back for his senior year? That's what I keep hearing. A lot of the pro scouting reports put him in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft if he enters it this year. They say he needs a little more development and needs to work on his arm strength. So I disagree with this statement from above: 13 I look at it much in the same way I look at the NFL MVP. If I had to start a team from scratch, who would I want to build my team around? Texas wasn't even supposed to be in the mix this year due to their youth and relatively inexperienced starters. But they showed up anyway. If McCoy stays, they'll be even better next year (scary prospect). OU is senior-heavy, particularly on the offensive line, most of which will be playing on Sundays next year. If Bradford enters the draft (and he hasn't decided) he's projected to go fairly high in the 1st round. The main knock on him from the scouts is that he needs to bulk up some more. Otherwise they like his speed, ability to do quick reads, arm strength and accuracy. So McCoy probably has an excellent shot to win the Heisman next year, and of course Tebow already has one. Tebow's got a good shot of starting on Sundays as well, but the scouting reports I've seen have teams looking at him as a tight end or even safety, not QB. He's a punisher as a player. Reports are that he's 50/50 on whether to enter the draft or stick around for his senior year. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 09:47 PM (1XErj) 37
Looks like Bradford's not the only one cashing in. And WTF is the treasury doing loaning money W/O an act of congress?
Posted by: Beto the Elder at December 13, 2008 09:49 PM (F1b/5) 38
I hope McCoy sticks around for his Senior year. It worked for Peyton Manning.
He has a great arm, and is a serious playmaker as long as he has protection. Once the protection breaks down, he can get hurt and his performance suffers if that happens. Posted by: TXMarko at December 13, 2008 09:53 PM (yRb81) 39
OU by 21+
Posted by: Beto the Elder at December 13, 2008 09:54 PM (F1b/5) 40
genghis you are spot on about Tebow. He could be another Jason Witten in the NFL.
Posted by: TXMarko at December 13, 2008 09:56 PM (yRb81) Posted by: TXMarko at December 13, 2008 09:57 PM (yRb81) 42
35 An extremely high percentage of nationally published or televised College Football Commentators (read: Professionals) will agree that the SEC sets the bar for all others to follow. Ahh...you mean "The Deciders," with their irrelevant AP poll. So what you're saying is that all the hick coaches and TRS-80 computers who placed OU at the top of the BCS are wrong? Speaking of "The Deciders," they can't even seem to get a single column right that doesn't disagree with itself in adjacent paragraphs. Exhibit 1 from MSNBC: "Bradford is the fifth Oklahoma player to win the award, and second during coach Bob Stoops’ 10 seasons with the Sooners. Bradford matched White by taking home college football’s most famous bronze statue. Next he’d like to join Josh Heupel, his position coach and a Heisman runner-up, who quarterbacked OU to the 2000 national title." “You were one of my heroes growing up,” Bradford told Heupel, one of many former Heisman winners at the ceremony." So excuse me if I don't buy your argument. Additionally, MSNBC has been the most vocal regarding the "outrage" that kept Texas out of the tile game, so yet another reason to ignore them. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 09:58 PM (1XErj) 43
You schmoes don't get it. Tebow will gut you. He will destroy any confidence OU has in the first quarter. Gators=norweigans OU=harp seals Bama fan keeping it real Posted by: ezgoer at December 13, 2008 10:01 PM (8nB5X) 44
Too bad Division I still doesn't want to have a real national champion. The real national champion will be the FCS champion. The highest division decided on the field.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 13, 2008 10:02 PM (GlrN/) 45
Congrats Sam from a fellow Putnam North grad. OU - 41 Florida - 30
Posted by: ribbs at December 13, 2008 10:03 PM (Ap8rM) 46
Seems to be a lot of SEC fans making some pretty bold predictions based on...corn liquor I guess. I learned not to do that back on Jan. 4, '05 when I signed out of the office the night before, on our "Out and About" program saying "going home to watch OU destroy USC." 55-19 later I had to scramble to get to the office and delete that the next morning, but it was already too late...everyone had seen it already. It ended up being a really long day. And I live in PAC-10 country. So just keep talking... Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 10:10 PM (1XErj) 47
I say they go settle it outside the local Taco Hell with sharpened sporks...last gutless college wonder to get a spork shanking gets to carry home the Heisman and the other guy's girlfriend. The rest goes like a rerun of Porky's IYKWIMAITYD.
Now that's a playoff dammit. Posted by: enter sandman at December 13, 2008 10:10 PM (zxaA2) 48
genghis -
I think all the polls are skewed in one way or another, with the possible exception of the consolidated computer polls. The BCS never really had my confidence, but I threw it all out the window when the took Strength Of Schedule out of the calculations. This allows folks like Hawaii and Utah to thump their chest and declare that they deserve a shot, when in reality, basement dwellers in the SEC and Big 12 could dispatch them with ease. Playoffs will overcome bias and allow great teams to rise to the top. MONEY is the reason why they (the Deciders) wont let it happen. Posted by: TXMarko at December 13, 2008 10:10 PM (yRb81) 49
... and for the record, I'm a Vol fan living in Texas.
Keepin' it real here as well, ate my fair share of pride and crow this year.... Posted by: TXMarko at December 13, 2008 10:15 PM (yRb81) 50
#41 Sounds good to me. You can find me after the game behind the counter at Dreamers Adult Books on IH 35 N. The password will be Tickle A Cunt With A Feather and the countersign will be Are For Real? Posted by: Beto the Elder at December 13, 2008 10:17 PM (F1b/5) 51
45 Congrats Sam from a fellow Putnam North grad. OU - 41 Florida - 30 Cool...you went to North? When I was back in h.s., (1984-85) PCN was a very new school and kind of a football punching bag. (I went to Moore H.S., which is now a decrepit punching bag for the newer Westmoore and the freshly created Southmoore.) I think we played PCN that year and won handily. Then we ended up in a 3-way tie in our division after losing our final game at P.C. Central...or it might've been P.C. West. The division winner was decided exactly like it was in the movie "Friday Night Lights," with a 3-way coin toss. We scraped our way through the playoffs and got to the state final, but lost to Tulsa Washington 14-10. The whole season played out almost exactly like the movie, but it was our star QB that went down and not a running back (ala Boobie Miles). The title game even had the race factor, like the movie. Tulsa Washington had exactly 3 white players and we had exactly 3 black players. Anyway, PCN has grown into a powerhouse, but your wrestling team back in '84 was a machine...trust me, I know firsthand. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 10:21 PM (1XErj) 52
I thought Tebow deserved it but congrats to Bradford. It will be one hell of a football game for sure. Big 12 vs SEC match ups always are at the championship level. I am a Crimson Tide fan and SEC man and have always thought the Big 12 and the SEC were best conferences and toughest to go undefeated in. I don't know what has happened to the Big 10 in the last few years but they sure have gone down hill fast. I guess kids like warm weather and pretty girls. Go Gators!!! Posted by: goat at December 13, 2008 10:28 PM (UNM/i) 53
I'm a huge NFL fan, and I don't think Tebow will make a good NFL QB at all. A tight end? I doubt it. Not that I doubt the kid, but picking up route-running AND learning how to block NFL defenders at the same time? That's a touch task. He's probably better off trying to play fullback. Maybe Miami could use him in their Wildcat (single wing) offense. However, that being said, the kid has GOT to be one of the best college football players of all time.
I think McCoy and Bradford are much better QB prospects. And I hope the Lions do NOT choose either of them with the 1st pick next year Posted by: conservativeinthecity at December 13, 2008 10:29 PM (AxoS/) 54
48 genghis - There's always inherent bias in any poll, human or computer, but it's the system all the schools have agreed on (including the Big 12 South tiebreaker), so if people don't like it then lobby to change the system. And the Big 12 is going to review the tiebreaker system after the season. Remember, the BCS rankings were fifth down the list of tiebreakers. Even the computers can be wrong...it just depends on the formula they've been programmed with. I think strength of schedule is accounted for, but the complaint many have had is that margin of victory isn't plugged in, nor home/away/neutral field advantage, and they have a point. If you add those two, then Texas is probably playing Florida this year. And I want a playoff too, but like we've both said above it all comes down to $$$. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 10:30 PM (1XErj) 55
Florida will win. Stoops works his team like a bunch of red-headed whores right up to the eleventh hour and they come out flat. If he lets up on 'em and they go down there to have a good time, they might have a chance.
Posted by: profligatewaste at December 13, 2008 10:35 PM (oUWHU) 56
I also think Tebow will do well in the NFL kind of in the Brett Favre style, tough and unpredictable. He is an accurate enough passer and a very solid runner, one of the best short yardage backs in the NCAA. He will go first round in the draft as a QB able to run the spread offense very effectively.
Posted by: goat at December 13, 2008 10:37 PM (UNM/i) 57
53 I'm a huge NFL fan, and I don't think Tebow will make a good NFL QB at all. A tight end? I doubt it. Not that I doubt the kid, but picking up route-running AND learning how to block NFL defenders at the same time? That's a touch task. He's probably better off trying to play fullback. Maybe Miami could use him in their Wildcat (single wing) offense. However, that being said, the kid has GOT to be one of the best college football players of all time. Could be a good fullback, but aren't most fullbacks built like bowling balls? He's got the toughness to do it though. I'm not sure about safety though (like the scouting reports are saying.) Tebow's fast, but I don't think he's got the chops to keep up with NFL-level wide receivers. Tight end? Maybe...again, he's tough enough and has the size and good hands as well. To me, it seems like he's built a little more like a linebacker or defensive end. Probably needs to bulk up some more, but he'd probably do pretty well at either spot. Some team will find a way to utilize him. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 10:40 PM (1XErj) 58
I agree genghis, someone is going to draft him and find a spot for him on the roster. The kid is too much of a talent and a leader to pass up. Will he go in the first round? Probably not, unless there's a team that think he CAN play QB. He's a project regardless, which suggests to me that he'll be drafted 3rd round, MAYBE the late 2nd.
Personally, if I was him, I'd be coming back for another season, work on my throwing mechanics (his biggest drawback as an NFL QB), and get Florida to another championship game. If he takes the time to quicken up his throwing mechanics, he might be able to get himself a higher draft position next year in 2010. Posted by: conservativeinthecity at December 13, 2008 10:44 PM (AxoS/) 59
I am also a supporter of a playoff between the top eight teams. We can keep all the bowls they would just serve in a different capacity as regional hosts of the playoff games with all the minor bowls remaining intact. The championship game could still rotate among the same hosts it does now. It does add a couple of games but I doubt few college ball fans would complain about that. I don't see what the big deal is about it. It could even be pared down to just the top 4 and still remove most of the BCS disputes.
Posted by: goat at December 13, 2008 10:47 PM (UNM/i) 60
"And WTF is the treasury doing loaning money W/O an act of congress?"
It's that whole "unitary executive" thing the Democrats have been warning us about, I guess. But now they're strangely silent. Posted by: notropis at December 13, 2008 10:47 PM (R0KQk) 61
Stop it with the tight end / safety talk- Fox sports has him the #1 pick in the entire draft as a qb and Kiper loves him...please ban anyone that said he would play fb, te, or safety...
Posted by: dan at December 13, 2008 10:48 PM (EvuNB) 62
Fox Sports has him as the #1 pick? Morons.
Posted by: conservativeinthecity at December 13, 2008 10:50 PM (AxoS/) 63
Pete Fiutak at Fox sports to be precise...I would argue anyone saying he should play fullback should be institutionalized
Posted by: dan at December 13, 2008 10:52 PM (EvuNB) 64
Sandman's reasoning is beyond comprehension. The FLA whining has hit epic proportions but not unexpected. Women do cry a lot in general. SEC fans here doing nothing but embarrassing themselves with their comments. You would think they are Big Ten fans with the dribble coming from their keyboards. 1) Colt 2)Tebow 3)Bradford. You knew they wouldn't give it to him twice. You know how the game is played. Don't cry. It only speaks poorly of you. Posted by: Hurricane at December 13, 2008 10:52 PM (gApzJ) 65
Glad that they mentioned Bradford is a Cherokee. Not many great Cherokee quarterbacks; I think there's him and Sonny Sixkiller.
Posted by: Bud Norton at December 13, 2008 10:56 PM (XkAsN) 66
OT Per WaPo: Obama camp to disclose full list of donors
Ohh wait, not the $740 million ones, just the innauguration donors idiots suckers. Posted by: cromagnum at December 13, 2008 11:07 PM (j5MnB) 67
63 Pete Fiutak at Fox sports to be precise...I would argue anyone saying he should play fullback should be institutionalized. I love Fiu...he's like the Ace of sports blogging and pretty much top dog over at www.collegefootballnews.com . His Tuesday "Cavalcade of Whimsy" posts read almost like Ace wrote them, except they involve football instead of hookers, flying cars and D&D collectible figurines. The site also has its very own version of Gabe, a guy named Matt Zemek, who's decided that where one word would suffice, ten must be better. Unlike our earless little scamp Gabe, Zemek is also a flaming lefty (and tends to wear that on his sleeve), residing in Seattle, and writes something called "The Weekly Affirmation." Think Al Franken's Stuart Smalley skits on SNL, but for real and about football. Zemek also believes that he must use alliteration in every single sentence, because after all...well I really don't know why. Tedious stuff he writes. 61 Stop it with the tight end / safety talk- Fox sports has him the #1 pick in the entire draft as a qb and Kiper loves him...please ban anyone that said he would play fb, te, or safety... Ok. I'm banned. But really, some of the scouting reports I've read actually say that...don't kill the messenger. Posted by: genghis at December 13, 2008 11:09 PM (1XErj) 68
Inside sources tell me McCoy definitely will be back next year, so I will keep my fingers crossed that he stays healthy and that he wins the Heisman next year
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