1 If they try to use TARP funds, do you think some institution will file a lawsuit to try and prevent it from happening?

2 Indeed welcome news if true, however, when government is involved it always reverts to smoke & mirrors with the taxpayer taking it up the ass.  I am rather sore from the bailout banging to date, but the Corker plan would do wonders in healing both my butt and attitude. 

3 Our money? I just heard a loud horn.

4

I am rather sore from the bailout banging to date, but the Corker plan would do wonders in healing both my butt and attitude. 

I thought that the safest course, when butt-sore, was to avoid contact entirely with the drooling imbecile who's been fucking you in the ass. I.e., jorge arbusto and his band of merry Democrats.

The corker plan is better than a complete TARP-fisting, but still worse than doing nothing.

5

I hope this is true. Can they force concessions on the UAW? I don't like this bailout at all, but if Bush is going to cave and use TARP then including the Corker stuff is at least a a small, barely perceptible silver lining. Plus, if it prompts more whining from Gettelfinger I'm all for it.

6 The UAW is still playing chicken. They don't think Bush will let one of the automakers go down and if they hold out they won't have to make any concessions.

It's absolutely amazing this bunch has this much power.

7 If something happens with TARP it better be something that makes Debbie Stabenow cry.

8 Yeah the Corker plan is more like getting fucked in the ass a mere couple of times, rather than the full-on gang bang by the entire cell block which is TARP.  I say, the best course of action is to keep your pants on.

9

What really needs to happen, I mean really needs to happen, is for someone to explain why a federal bailout with restructuring conditions is better than letting the companies restructure under Chapter 11.

Running around crying that 3 million jobs will be lost if the industry fails does not cut it. Restructuring does not = the disappearance of the industry. So anyone supporting the congressional bailout package or the new TARP bailout proposal needs to explain why a bailout is necessarily better than restructuring under Chapter 11.

As the American taxpayer is essentially being asked to step in and become part of the companies' management, we have the right and duty to drive as hard a bargain as possible.

Explain how the American taxpayer/government "essentially becoming part of the companies' management" is not socialism.

10 Watcher @ 7: Yes.  Did you see her last night?  I thought she was going to have a complete breakdown.  "You meanie Republicans, it's just a couple of billion dollars, how could you, how could you!  <sob sob> Why it's FOR THE CHILDREN!"

Bitch.

11 Gov. Granholm just had a televised news conference covered on all the Detroit area networks. She's begging for people to buy cars or buy stock in the car companies. Personally, I think a German Shepard would be a more competent Governor than this totally clueless woman.

/thanks again Michigan Democrats for voting in some of the worst politicians this side of Chicago.

12 Now It's a Done Deal?

I don't think so. That update quotes a noon report on Fox Business Channel. I don't think it panned out.

13

Fuck the Corker plan, he didn’t even call for getting rid of the bus shit. I don’t give a damn if the UAW agrees to wage cuts, I want them to go chapter 11 and leave the taxpayer alone.

14 Gabriel @ 9: The only way that I can see the bailout is better than Chapter 11 is that Congress won't let GM die, but in bankruptcy court the outcome is far less certain.

15

Explain how the American taxpayer/government "essentially becoming part of the companies' management" is not socialism.

 

We have had socialism since the 1930s. The taxpayer/government becoming management is communism.

16 6 The UAW is still playing chicken. They don't think Bush will let one of the automakers go down and if they hold out they won't have to make any concessions.

It's absolutely amazing this bunch has this much power.

Today the Detroit News mentioned that $2 million in UAW PAC cash went to Democrats, while 12,500 went to Republicans. Knowing the UAW, I'm wondering who make that 12.5k contribution, since it was obviously done by mistake.

On the other hand, I guess 2 million buys a lot of favors, even from the President. Who knew Bush was a closet Democrat?

17 >>>As the American taxpayer is essentially being asked to step in and become part of the companies' management, we have the right and duty to drive as hard a bargain as possible.

I'm assuming that this is going to happen, socialism or not. Bush wants it. Obama will want it later. And Obama will have enough senators to pass it, especially if Snowe and Collins continue voting against cloture.

18 Posted by: shibumi at December 12, 2008 03:46 PM (tZB/c)

Yeah, what is it with Democrats and hyper-emotional women?  There's Stabenow, Granholm... remember Cryin' Gov. Blanco after Katrina?  I thought they were supposed to be the party of women-are-just-as-tough-as-men but they seem to break down in tears at the slightest hint of trouble.  You don't see Republican women breaking down left and right.  After all the crap that was thrown at Palin, did she ever cry on camera?  No.

19

Obama will have enough senators to pass it, especially if Snowe and Collins continue voting against cloture.

I think you mean "for," or am I getting it backwards myself?

And I will take yet another opportunity to shill for Ford, which IMHO should not be lumped in with GM and Chrysler.  In fact, I think they deserve some support for not going down the bailout road.  As I said in the post below, rant and rave all you want, and buy what you want, but don't be dicks about Ford, which is not asking for this handout.

20

Who knew Bush was a closet Democrat?

Anyone not in a coma the last time he tried to cram shamnesty down our throats, I thought. Still have the rectal scars from that one.

21 If there really are real concessions I can live with this.

22 If they could become financially viable they would do so now. The UAW contracts and stupid ideas from the top are killing these companies, not a lack of goverment funds and pressure to be smart. The pressure to run your company well is called "impending bankruptcy and failure" and they want to remove that mechanism.

23

 

Don't forget that we're also bailing out shareholders of a publically-traded corporation.

It will be interesting to see how many of the top shreholders of GM dump their shares in the coming months.

24 Speaking of UAW political contributions - since 1997, UAW has given $21K to Blago.  Heh.

25 #20, not to mention Prescription Drugs, McCain/Feingold, NCLB, etc.

26

What really needs to happen, I mean really needs to happen, is for someone to explain why a federal bailout with restructuring conditions is better than letting the companies restructure under Chapter 11.

From the way it sounded to me, the biggest advantage to the bailout as structured by Corker is that the debtholders only take it in the mouth and not in the ass.  Under Chapter 11, the debtholders could be left with nothing.  That's not good for an already shaky economy.

27 Any decent leadership would have told the car companies to go away and identify the 10 top things that the government does to them that causes them to have financial problems. Then set about eliminating the government obstacles to letting business work.
CAFE standards ... shitcan then
more blends of unleaded gas than starbucks has coffees ... shitcan it
non-right to work states ... take away all federal monies until the states that don't have it shitcan the requirements.
Stupid mandated speed limits ... shitcan then.
There's more, and they all cost NO money to the taxpayer.
And it would make our car industry the strongest in the world making cars that are the envy of the world. We know the recipies ... make cars fast and sleek and sexy and desireable. Can we do that with CAFE standards that force the big 3 to build Pinto's and Vegas or whatever they call that pussy shit at the low end of all of the big 3's roster? Nope. Could we give them a fighting chance? Yep.
Better than a loan into a bad business model any day.

28

wow, George W'Obamabush's legacy just keeps getting bigger and bigger...along with that silly national debt thing.

hey Prez...isn't there some brush in Texas that needs clearing? well, get on with it.

29 The Mayor of Lansing is on with Cavuto and holy cow he's shameless. And panicky.

30 Ford's the only one that's managed to stay somewhat solvent.  Not exactly as competitive and solvent as it could be, but at least enough to manage.  Certainly heads and shoulders above Chrysler and GM (and also add that both my Ford truck and little put-put mobiles were the only domestic cars I or my family have owned in the last 40 years that actually, on average held up decently well -- the Dodges have been hit and miss although when good very much so, the GMs so horrid to swear off them forever).  Why is that?  Twould be an interesting case study into this whole fiasco I think.

31

wow, George W'Obamabush's legacy just keeps getting bigger and bigger...along with that silly national debt thing.

Hello, dipshit.  I'monna put you some education, 'cause I'm just nice like that:

The economy you are now in is Barney Franks' legacy.

Bush, sure, he's got his issues.  But this one is his.

Oh, and also, Obama's.

32

Why is that?

Corporate Greed(tm)!

33 I live in Michigan, and you know what I'd like to see? Some competent politicians to run this state. Right now, everyone here is in the 'sky is falling' mode, but you know something? Maybe this state (which is actually quite nice, except for the insane liberals) will be better off if those die hard UAW types either get different, non manufacturing jobs, or even better yet, all get auto jobs in Canada or Mexico.

As for Governor Jennifer Idiot, she continually goes on these overseas junkets to get jobs (I seem to recall one trip that netted a total of 3 jobs), while our Suburban Detroit mayor got us a manufacturing plant that brought in 500+ jobs. Thank God for term limits.

34 30 Ford's the only one that's managed to stay somewhat solvent Why is that?  Twould be an interesting case study into this whole fiasco I think.

Because Ford has been having problems for a much longer time. Remember the Explorers that kept rolling over and killing people? They've been going through financial problems for quite a long time, then got rid of Bill Ford Jr. and hired a competent executive. They knew there was no chance of a bailout 5+ years ago, so they hunkered down and figured it out. And they're kind of OK. Right now, GM and Chrysler are where Ford was years ago.

35 If that's so, why is Emanuel hiding behind his kids to avoid answering questions?

Maybe he just doesn't do ambush interviews.  I know I wouldn't.  Pesky presshounds...

36

The Ford “rollover” problem was just like the Pinto “fire problem”. It was manufactured bullshit from the trial lawyers. Industry statistics did not support any larger percentage of Ford SUV rollovers than other SUVs and normally they were caused by idiots running on under inflated tires.

37

Remember that $700 billion to bailout the "financial sector"?  Thanks for the blank check, bitches.  Maybe if you spent more on campaign contributions and less on booze, random shiny objects, and Firefly DVDs you'd be getting a piece of the action too.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to have Paulson give GM $10,000,000,000 so they can modernize their crappy old pushrod V8 pickup truck with the option to have longhorn antlers mounted on the front.  Because that would be cool.

38

It was manufactured bullshit from the trial lawyers.

Which brings up another good option for reform - "loser pays" torts.

Or mass execution of trial lawyers.  Heck, charge for tickets on pay-per-view, and we could eliminate the national debt!

Kidding.

 

Sort of.

39 Under Chapter 11, the debtholders could be left with nothing.

I believe you are thinking of a Chapter 7 bankruptcy which basically dissolves the company. Chapter 11 requires debt payments, but reduced and restructured, as I understand it. They want to avoid bankruptcy because the unions could be forced to renegotiate with absolutely no leverage and almost no way to avoid looking like the bad guys if they refuse a contract.

And yeah I don't mind Rahm Emmanuel telling a reporter to go to hell in those circumstances. He should, I would.

40

Bitch MI governor is blaming “Southern Senators” for promoting “sectionalism”.

41 The UAW claims the auto industry will collapse if the bailout doesnt go through.

Uh, correction, HALF the auto industry will collapse, incompetent half. 

42  Treasury may want to read TARP before they start to crunch numbers. I think the legislation as written limits the money to 'financial institution'. Which means Treasury would be legally bared from giving any money to the auto makers.

43 "As the American taxpayer is essentially being asked to step in and become part of the companies' management, we have the right and duty to drive as hard a bargain as possible. We need full value on our money."

You're a funny guy, Ace.

44

Bitch MI governor is blaming “Southern Senators” for promoting “sectionalism”.

Funny.  This incompetent imbecile, whose policies have put Michigan into a one-state depression since pretty much the day she took office, is demanding that all American taxpayers be put on the hook to bail out an industry whose solvency is really only critical to her shithole of a state, and she's accusing others of "sectionalism".

45

Rocketeer shared this deep and profound thought:

Hello, dipshit.  I'monna put you some education, 'cause I'm just nice like that:

The economy you are now in is Barney Franks' legacy.

Bush, sure, he's got his issues.  But this one is his.

Oh, and also, Obama's.

mmm...Rocketeer? exactly how many spending bills did W'Obamabush veto? yeah, that's what I thought...and now that the Republicans in the Senate, for one of the few times in recent memory actually managed to kill a stupid bill, what's good ol' W doing? oh yeah, helping the Dems out again...

the whole point with the new moniker...W, Barney boy, Obama, Chris Dodd, the whole friggin' DC circus (most Republicans there included)...as far as wasting taxpayer money is concerned, you can't tell them apart without a scorecard...pretending the Moron-in-Chief has/had nothing to do with the clusterfuck does exactly zero good...but feel free to keep your head shoved in the sand (though I suspect it's shoved up a different oriface.

46 exactly how many spending bills did W'Obamabush veto?

Several, but only after the Democrats took congress.

47 Treasury may want to read TARP before they start to crunch numbers. I think the legislation as written limits the money to 'financial institution'. Which means Treasury would be legally bared from giving any money to the auto makers.

I suspect they will find a way to funnel the money through GMAC and the other financial companies owned by the automakers. Hope I am wrong about that...

48 They need to embrace the suck -- chapter 11.  Its the only way to sober up the UAW.

49 I hope the GOP tried to stick it to the unions.  The union's are blood sucking leaches and deserve to have their nuts twisted!

50 To quote the little tease ad from the Western Michigan Fox affiliate (WXMI) for it's news at 10 tonight that just ran:

"Senate Republicans put their political interests ahead of national interests and vote against the bailout..."

If this state went all-in on the car industry and loses, I say oh well! Granted I've only lived here 6 months, but still, way to be objective news at 10!

51 Local tv news in Detroit is reporting that the bail out is a done deal, it will be officially announced before the Asian markets open on Monday.It will be essentially the same bill as the one that passed the House.

Although I do have to add, one of the politicos in MI, after screaming bloody murder about Republican Senators in the south, did indeed mention that some (mumble, mumble) Democrats did vote against the bill.

I guess Bush just love those union boys. And he's got to help them, because they've done so much for him....

52

Anyone not in a coma the last time he tried to cram shamnesty down our throats, I thought. Still have the rectal scars from that one.

Youch!  He must have borrowed Dick Cheney's cock to accomplish that trick.

53 The best way to hurt the unions is to deny them automatic payroll deductions. 
It's insanity that management actually helps fund these clowns, might as well be handing a mugger a gun. 

Make them collect the funds they are "due" from the grateful workers they represent.  It will save the company some money, provide privacy to the workers (no need for the company to know who is in and not in the union), and force the union to me more responsible to their "clients".

If you ever get involved in union negotiations you will see it's on the first page of the agenda, guaranteed.

54 Look, I'm a Buckeye and with all my heart hate U of M, but I love the state of Michigan. Great camping and the UP is heaven on earth (except when the black flies are in season). I hate to see what the clueless twit of a governor has done to the state. And if you want a really interesting experience head up north in Michigan around Traverse City and you can get some really cheap real estate. Seems all the UAW boys have got their SECOND HOMES up for sale now that things aren't so peachy. How does a line worker afford a SECOND HOME? Thanks UAW and thank you Jennifer "You're UnAmerican" Granhore!

55 "liberal blogger Josh Marshall's conspiracy theory is revealed -- the GOP is just opposing the bailout to get "payback" against the unions"

Naw, that part's just gravy, it's free added content, it's where the dipity got its seren, . . .

(Watch now.  The unions are going to start bellowing in protest in a few weeks, and we'll be told by all the newsies about the huge, staggering, insanely unfair wallop of a pay cut that's going to gut all union workers across the board, and they'll picket and go on talk TV and ACORN will try to build them a house and Joan Baez will bring out all her old Woody Guthrie posters  . . .

. . . and we'll hardly notice that, tucked away in some obscure bill that makes ameobas the state bird of florida, there'll be this little provision, darned near incomprehensible, that'll trigger some weird and unknown federal reg, which will make one banking change somewhere, which will trigger a quiet executive order (written and put in place five weeks ago just for this purpose) which results in the union people getting every single dollar they supposedly lost right back again, but this time tax-free through some weird qualified-account pathway, and ACORN will get an amount equal to ten percent of all of those hundreds of millions to use at their own discretion for the purpose of registering voters, and they'll use it to buy thousands of wire cutters which they'll hang along the fences along the Rio Grande . . .)

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