1 Yepo.

Sick shit that Obama will be praised for.  In this long term war we're in, giving huge concessions to the Iranians is a terrible idea.  It could be 10 years before Iran nukes us, but they will if they can.

They chant Death to America every day.

2
Thanks, Mr Bush!

3 Thanks for this update as the news is focused solely on chicago politics or the young girls body found in orlando.

4 Bush still has a couple of weeks. and it would take the heat of the O

5

Change = Getting nuked by Iran

Yeah, that'd be something new and changey.

6 I think we are headed for a large swath of smooth glass over a significant portion of the Middle East.  Quite a background for Obama's re-election campaign, which will start shortly, because he isn't actually going to do anything else as President.  "Problem solved", his backers will insist!

7 Mark my words, we will sit down and talk without preconditions if you bomb Israel! (we'll need time to decommission our nukes)

8 There's always those pro-American Iranian youths we hear about.  You know, the ones that'll revolt and overthrow the theocracy any day now, but would kill all Americans and Israelis if struck first.  Let's pin our hopes on those guys. 

9 Bart, while it's really hard to dispute giving Bush some credit for the current situation, you have to admit he's been thoroughly undermined at every turn. 

He doesn't have friends in congress, and he has to beg just to keep our troops fed and armored in Iraq.  It's a huge credit that he's seen it through, and I think it's unfair to blame him for not being able to go further.

But it does irritate the hell out of me that he has been too nice to North Korea and Iran.  I would love for him to attack Iran's infrastructure, but we all know that would have immediate reaction from our congress and most republicans.

Bush didn't get enough support from the GOP to fight these wars, and now he's being blamed by everyone.  Mccain couldn't stop punching him in the face and apologizing for him during the election. 

10

The Democraps have opposed Bush on the WOT at every turn for purely political purposes. The conduct has been so reprehensible that it borders on treason.

 

The only thing that I fault Bush on is that he rolls over for the Dems to easily. He should have called them on all their lies from the beginning. His lack of ardor in fighting the enemies on the home front led to consequences on the war front.

11 Gearghty had a funny point about this whole idea...it started with Charles Krauthammer*. At the time, the left skewered him and it.

So the question to the Kos Kidz is...who is the neo-con now, bitches?

Actually Krauthammer suggested Bush do it as a way to tie future administrations to the defense of Israel but it's still funny to see Obama using it.

And even if it is Krauthammer's idea, it still sucks.


*How fucking great a name is Krauthammer? It's just fun to say.

12

Don't worry our "friends" in the EU will step up and resolve the matter diplomatically.

13 I'm the original Kraut Hammer, baby.

14 So, what's obamama's point? If Israel is destroyed, then he will destroy Iran... or maybe not? I hate that fucker.

15

Krauthammer is awesome.  Back in April, it was still theoretically possible that when Bush said that he wouldn't allow Iran to get nukes, he actually meant it.

Ah, youth.  Halcyon salad days of innocence and mental retardation.

16 You know, it just sounds to me like Obama's out there being a cowboy, displaying typical American lack of, ah yes, intellectual curiosity. 
His statement also shows that he too is in the pocket of Isreal.

Basically, we should use every action by Obama that validates, in some way, a Bush posture, as a chance to vindicate Bush (but fuck him because of the bail out and essentially taking the blame for the recent economic crisis) or to criticize Obama with the same batshit insane stuff we've had to endure for 8 years.

oh, and it is pretty convienent that he "beats the drums of war" while he's emmersed in scandal (remember how Bush had Enron imputed to him, uh because he's from texas).

17 But seriosuly, every leftwing presidential fantasy in pop culture has the president being convinced at the last minute to not nuke.  So, I doubt Obama will pull the trigger.  Instead, the wagons will be circled to show how mature he was to "forgive" Iran.

Never again?  Shit, he's just guaranteed the next Holocaust.  His promise is meaningless.

18 Israel is under "our umbrella" now? Does that mean we will take threats from The Persian Napoleon more seriously as well?

Man oh man!

I can't wait to turn a couple Iranian nuclear reactors into NYC quality potholes!

"Yes Sir, Launch!
Missiles are airborne locked on target, sir.
Oh. You said LUNCH?!?
Sorry, Mr. President.
My bad. Hmmm....
Hey? Still wanna get a bit to eat?"

19 Maybe this is the final straw for Israel.

I remember John Bolton talking about where the point of no return was, earlier this year, and what America was willing to do to avoid it.
We have our answer: nothing.
Bush allowed the State Department to cut his legs off regarding a strike on Iran. 

Iran will strike Israel, a one bomb State.  I'm actually surprised they haven't had a dirty bomb yet.  Iran has had that ability for a long while.   They're waiting to use the big flash.

Israel needs to strike today.  They are out of time.  And Obama has decided that nukes in Iran, and an Israel glowing in the dark, will be easier to deal with than a preemptive strike.  Shame on America.

20 Shouldn't Obama first pledge to solve the root causes of Iran's nuclear annihilation of Isreal first?  You know, no teacher unions, no public voting for unions, the existence of Isreal?  Oh wait, one root cause would be solved right there. 

21 The US should have nuked Iran 30 years ago.

22 God/Allah help Iran if they seriously go after Israel. Israel will bitch-smack those chest-thumping camel-humping poodles back to the 10th century.

Oh, wait. What?

They're already there? DAMN, that was fast!

23 I bet the fucking World Trade Center was under our Umbrella too.  8 years of 'it's the economy stupid' 'Tomahawk Missile' Clinton and it was gone with many other US targets.  I bet our Iranian embassy was under our umbrella.  A few years of Carter and that too was gone.

Israel can't rely on us, and that is a fucking shame.  We have already got decades of justification for war.  How many times has the UN sanctioned force against Iran for supporting terrorism or taking over our embassy?  At what point do we retaliate?

24

The Democraps have opposed Bush on the WOT at every turn for purely political purposes. The conduct has been so reprehensible that it borders on treason.

Borders on treason? Those depraved scumbags crossed the treason border a long time ago. Makes me long for the days when people got tarred and feathered. Fuckers.

25

Israel needs to strike today.  They are out of time.  And Obama has decided that nukes in Iran, and an Israel glowing in the dark, will be easier to deal with than a preemptive strike.  Shame on America.

x2

26

Does anyone really believe that Obama would order a nuke strike against Iran if they detonated a nuke in Israel?  Is he really going to contend with media reports and pictures of many (hundreds of?) thousands of dead and horribly injured civilians?  Or the backlash from the Arab/Muslim world and the anti-Israel Euroweenies?  The reports of fallout hundreds of miles away?  I don't think so.

Israel would retaliate with nukes, and he'd call for UN action to deal with the "tragedy" and denounce the "cycle of violence" on both sides.  Meanwhile pretending that it wasn't his fault that Iran was allowed to procure a nuke in the first place.

27

I am sure that Israel is quite capable of taking care of itself.  But the blundering around of Barack Obama begs a larger question.

Does anyone, outside of Chris Matthews and his damp panties, take the pronouncements of our President-elect and his party seriously?

If they do, we will be fine.

If not, well...

Well, then I would not invest in urban real estate anywhere on planet Earth.

28 Steyn, as usual, is precisely right.

Obama will not nuke anybody, not for South Korea, or Taiwan, or Iraq, and especially not for Israel.

Hell, I'd be damn interested to discover whether any of our nukes still work.

By urging a nuclear free world, we'll get wormsign the likes of which even God has never seen.

29 The Iranian leadership views being nuked itself after nuking Israel as a blessing, portending the second coming of the great cheesecake or something. 

Israel better act, before "never again" morphs into " this time, worse."

30 Obama's showing everyone what he's got up his skirt - a big, fat, juicy pussy.  And he's not even in office yet.  Do you really think this policy is going to be limited to the middle east, too?  Let's see what the Euros think about Obama now that he's proving to them that the US won't protect their asses.   Is he as cool as he was two months ago?

31 I don't see how anybody is gonna reasonably prevent Iran from getting nukes.  That would take a massive land invasion and occupation - who has the stomach for it right now?  Who ever did?  Even if we were to do that the can is just getting kicked down the road for a decade or two.

We're just going to have to live with MAD again, and we're gonna have to put more effort into BMD.

And anyway where do we get off telling a country not to have nukes?  More than twenty countries either have them or are in the late stages of development.  Is it really reasonable to expect Iran to refrain from developing nuclear weapons when Israel already has them?

32

Y'all seem to be missing the point.  Obama didn't say this, it's just another one of his trial balloons, a statement made by some unidentified staffer.  If the world swoons and showers him with accolades, Obama will step forward and take credit for this brilliant strategy.  If the strategy is ridiculed, he will disown it.

When has Barack Obama ever even taken ownership of words that came out of his own mouth, much less those of unattributed underlings?  His position is whatever he says it is, tomorrow.

33 Expect exponential Carterism over the next 4-8 years.

The US will pretty much cede Asia to China once they attack Taiwan and nothing happens. Japan and Korea would be fools not to suck up to China after that happens.

The Russians will bully Europe to whiny bitch status.

Israel will have to nuke Iran but will they take out their other enemies at the same time?

But don't worry we'll be engaged in really important stuff like Darfur and other areas that have no strategic value to the US.

34 So, what's the deal with the "remember the Kat-Mo"?  LOL

Anyway, it's been the Democrat's plan for years to put the ME on a Cold War footing including making deals with tyrants and maintaining stability by whatever means.  They prefer working in the construct of "nation states" and deplore the idea of fighting with "non-state" actors. 

In some respects, the concept isn't completely deluded as long as we have the "big stick" to bang these nations with should they get out of hand.  Basically, forcing them to deal with their internal issues and making them responsible for any actions of these non-state actors.

the problem, of course, is the possibility of an irrational state, such as Iran, getting nuclear weapons.  The idea that they even have a similar rationality as the Russians in self-preservation is definitely a question mark.  Political ideology based on martyrdom has a different flavor.

the second problem being that some of these "non-state actors" have their own plans and expectations that definitely place US citizens in danger here and abroad.  The democrats want to put terrorism back on a criminal and intelligence footing with clandestine assassinations and retention "under the radar".  Despite all the caterwauling about the US reputation.  For them, "under the radar" is equal to "improved standing" among the global community.

35 "...the United States now accepts that Iran's going nuclear and there's nothing anyone can (or will) do about it."

Oh, I don't know about the 'there's nothing anyone can do about it'.  Looks like The Chosen One has given Israel every reason to bomb the Iranians before January. 

36 I'm going to put in a package to be an astronaut and spend the next 4-8 years watching the pretty light show. See you, fuckers!

37 26 Does anyone really believe that Obama would order a nuke strike against Iran if they detonated a nuke in Israel?  Is he really going to contend with media reports and pictures of many (hundreds of?) thousands of dead and horribly injured civilians?  Or the backlash from the Arab/Muslim world and the anti-Israel Euroweenies?

Theoretical Messiah statements after Israel is nuked by Iran:

"I urge restraint on the part of Israel."

"This is not the Iran I know."

"I did not have sex with that woman"
Oh wait. That's a different president.

38 Didn't we already know this?  It seems to me that before the election Biden gave a little talk about how Israel was going to have to accept Iran as a nuclear power.  Also, I agree with commenters above, he isn't going to retaliate against anyone for any reason ever. 

39 Theoretical Messiah statements after Israel is nuked by Iran:

I can, um, no more disown, um, Iran than I can disown black people.

What, um, the world needs is more unity, except for Israel, which is toast.

Can I just eat my waffle?

Ummm, we'll all remember, um, this day as the day the dead Jooos started to rise!

40

Air strikes on Iran by Israel require overflight of Iraq, so the story goes.

 

What else is there, other than air strikes?

41

And anyway where do we get off telling a country not to have nukes?  More than twenty countries either have them or are in the late stages of development.  Is it really reasonable to expect Iran to refrain from developing nuclear weapons when Israel already has them?

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

42 Commando raids. With a few hundred operators, Israel could shut down Iran's nukes. Maybe. Just need enough men to place demolitions to either weaken (assisting follow-up strikes) or destroy the structures.

And ballistic or cruise missiles. Pound the structures with hypersonic conventional/tactical nuclear warheads.

Electronic attack.Shut down the air defense grid, shut off communications. Let air/ground teams work.

Actually, all of those targets have weak spots: the people working the projects. If you destroy the human capital, you can also destroy the project.

43 Air strikes on Iran by Israel require overflight of Iraq, so the story goes.
Posted by: Wm T Sherman at December 11, 2008 06:20 PM (w41GQ)

Most likely: Southern Turkey. I can't find the link but there was an article about the terrain offering gaps in radar coverage and the willingness of Turkey to pretend that's what happened.

Less likely/very unlikely: All the way around the Arabian Peninsular or across Saudi Arabia.

Either way, you lose points for not having faith in the IAF. What's next, questioning Karl Rove and Dick Cheney?

44 Actually, all of those targets have weak spots: the people working the projects. If you destroy the human capital, you can also destroy the project.
Posted by: Vercingetorix at December 11, 2008 06:36 PM (N8eC4)

Speaking of which, a Russian working at Bushehr just had "an accidental fall from a rock" in a recreational area. Seems he was a 'legal expert' according to the AP but who knows.

Hey accidents happen. Of course, so do assassinations.

45 Yes, it is Krauthamer's idea and yes it sucks.  But there hasn't been much that has come out of the Republican brain trust lately that hasn't sucked.  Look no matter how much we complain about Obama and the media he is, was and will be beatable.  If he is opposed by a competent opposition.  The Repubs need to complain less and remake themselves more.  The fact that Jindal is leery of running right now might indicate that he thinks they haven't bottomed out yet.  If the Republican brain trust needs more humbling than this  it is doomed.

46

 

26 Does anyone really believe that Obama would order a nuke strike against Iran if they detonated a nuke in Israel?

I wouldn't believe he'd order a strike against the NorKs if they nuked Vancouver and Canada is a member of NATO and NORAD.

What defence pact has the U.S. signed with Israel again?

47 If the Republican brain trust needs more humbling than this  it is doomed.

Yes. Evidently on both counts.

48 Obama's not going to retaliate in any meaningful way, and Israel knows it.  I think this "guarantee" is his way of motivating them to get the job done on Iran's nuclear facilities before the Inauguration.

49 Barry Obama doesn't have the balls to step on anyone other than his current (former) supporters, who are beneath him. 
He is incapable of differentiating good from evil, as the concept is alien to his megalomaniac personality disorder, -- which is only capable of discerning what is beneficial from what is detrimental from the standpoint of personal gain.

"...10 million people nuked but there was no harm to me/mine, so it's all good. WE can still salvage a net positive gain from this dilemma and come out smelling like unicorn farts, if we play our hand right..."

50

Neither side will back down.  Gentlemen start your engines! 

The seven angels who were holding the seven trumpets prepared to blow them.  Rev.  8:6

51 You know what would really suck?  If Israel thought it's only recourse was to let fly all birds and turn the entire ME into a nuclear inferno. 

Mark Steyn writes about some Iranian clown that says "A single atomic bomb has the power to completely destroy Israel, while an Israeli counter-strike can only cause partial damage to the Islamic world."

This is only true if Israel only has a few devices.  What if they have thousands?

K

52

Radioactive zombies are on the way. No wonder ammo is in short supply all over the web.

53 By last count, Israel has as many as 200 nuclear warheads. It would be very hard to call 200 nuclear explosions, 'damages' to the Muslim world.

Certainly the Middle East would cease to exist, leaving North Africa (maybe), Central Asia and Indonesia as the only places where Islam would continue as a quaint, backwater faith.

This is depressing. I thought we gave up MAD with the fall of the Berlin Wall. I cannot believe anyone (fucking liberals, looking at you) would pine for those days.*

*And again, MAD only works with the doctrines of First Strike and Massive Retaliation.

54

Certainly the Middle East would cease to exist, leaving North Africa (maybe),

I'd like to see the math on that.

I doubt it.

55 I'd like to see the math on that.

Sure. Here's a city list of the largest cities in the Middle East (over 100k people). By my count, there's around 160 possible targets. If we exempt targets in nominally neutral Turkey, targets too close to Israel itself (Lebanon, for instance, and Palestine) and targets too far away/unimportant (Yemen), Israel has more than enough weapons at the low end estimates to hit cities with weapons 3x the yield of Hiroshima (population 350k in 1945). They could destroy every major Middle Eastern city.

Obviously, I used hyperbole: the entire Middle East won't cease to exist. But considering the fragility of life there, even devastation of ten percent of the country/infrastructure, could cause starvation, disease, and high rates of radiation sickness, plus associated casualties due to violence to huge swaths of the region.

Don't forget also the political structure of Middle Eastern nations tend to be highly centralized. Nuke Washington (please! nyuck nyuck nyuck), and the rest of the US will survive. Destroy Baghdad, Iraq shatters.

We saw in Iraq refugees of around 1 million or more in a country of 30 million, or around 3-5%. We could predict refugees approaching 10-90% of the survivors (I'm spitballing here, sue me).

That is worst, worst, worst case scenario stuff. That would be Iran successfully launching a nuclear strike on Israel, with a counter strike destroying Iran, then a conventional war of Arab states against Israel resulting in a last ditch strike against Arab capitals and major cities.

The Middle East, in this scenario, may struggle on, but Arab culture will be as pulverized as the Jewish diaspora.

56 "A single atomic bomb has the power to completely destroy Israel, while an Israeli counter-strike can only cause partial damage to the Islamic world."

How is the Islamic world going to deal with their precious rock getting vaporized?
Are they going to pray five times a day towards a radioactive crater?
Are they going to make their Hajj wearing a lead suit?
That's two out of five requirements that no Muslim will ever fulfill.
I'm not even going get into a shitload prophecies that can never be fulfilled without the existence of the Kabaa.  It would be like Allah doesn't even exist.

Nope.  I'm sure that they believe that Allah would smack those nukes out of the air like mosquitoes.  No, I don't think dinner jacket has factored this into his plans at all.

I'm not sure that I'm looking forward to a billion people suddenly figuring out that they're not going to paradise.  Might be entertaining but it ain't worth a second Holocaust. 

57

Empty words from an empty suit.  The One is already on record saying he does not like nukes, has no plans to replace our aging and unreliable stockpile, will not allow nuke testing and in general plans to disarm.  He also hates BMD and plans to shut the programs down.  And again, the idea that a Democrat from a party that constantly opposes war after the US has been directly attacked will use nukes on behalf of a country that they don't even have a formal defense treaty with, is simply laughable.

No one thinks the One has the ability or the will to use nukes, by his own words.  Israel better make plans to take out Iran by themselves while they still can.

58 So much for peace but then again the whole blasted UN dont realy want world peace they want world control thats why no doves ever nest at the UN

59

Obama is full of shit. If Iran nukes Israel, secState Hillary will screech at the UN. That's about it.

Israel: you're on your own. If you can level Tehran now, better do it. The clock is ticking down to 1/20/09, after which you are fucked.

60 Will he at least say the nuclear response would be without preconditions?

61 Jimmah "White Flag" Carter weighs in:

BEIRUT (Reuters) – Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter said on Friday he hoped President-elect Barack Obama would quickly engage in Middle East peace talks when he takes office.

Carter, president from 1977 to 1981, said Obama had told him he would "begin this effort early in his term."

"The United States for the last eight years has been basically aloof from negotiations," Carter said in an address at the American University of Beirut. "My hope is we will see a new movement toward a comprehensive peace in this region."

Yes, Jimmah let's return to a less aloof time like your bend over and take it from everyone administration. What a fucking assclown.

62 I don't know if Obama fully understand the threat from Iran, not only for Israel, but for all free world

63 Many Christian Tele-Evangelists are preaching that its only a matter of time before Iran nukes Israel, and are also commenting that it would only take 1, or 2 strategically placed nuclear explosions to disintegrate Israel's infrastructue, and demoralize it's people.  However, most likely it won't be just one, or two, it will be an all out attack of many more nuclear warheads fired into Israel.  Israel knows this, and so does Obama.  ArmaJihad plays with his computer every chance he can get, pressing all his nuclear buttons watching Israel on his big similution computer screens being wiped off the world map, the only thing he needs to complete his propheted task is time.  So will the Harvard Hesitation delay the Israeli counter-attack long enough to fulfill prophecy, or will Israel answer Shakesphere's most narrated question, TO BE OR NO BE! with a kind responce to the Dick-head Mahe'smad Ahmadinejad's threat to wipe Israel off the map.  Why can't we just all get along?  Because we can't said the cat, and charlie manson's mom who sold him out for a six-pack of beer.  I wonder what would charlie do?  Cowboy was a very amazing soldier, many cannot testify to that, he was taken out to dinner by a deer.  I wonder what would cowboy do?

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