1 hot damn, first. Wassup?

2 Can we exchange Rangel for a slightly retarded midget porn actress?
Aw,yeah, bboooooooooeeeeeyyyyyyyy!!!!!!

3 It's only our money....right?

4 How much support does it have in the Senate?

5

The way Rangel is smiling, he must've gotten a piece of the action.  I wonder how many of his relatives get named as "non-exectutive officers" in some corporate board or as "consultants".

6 Rangel OG, yo.

7 I'll say this much for Ron Paul:  you always know how he's going to vote.

And actually, he does vote the way I want him to 90-95% of the time.  The problem is that he's a conspiracy-mongering terrorist-enabling anti-Semitic nutjob.

8 No, mossback, it isn't your/our money. That's just it!  The quicker you learn that, the sooner you'll adapt to the new world order.

9 I have never felt as if they are not my leaders like I do now. I feel as if they are actively doing harm to the republic. It is close to not being a government of the people. Scary times.

10 The way Rangel is smiling, he must've gotten a piece of the action.

That was my first thought too.

11 "The way Rangel is smiling, he must've gotten a piece of the action. "


Pocketpool.

12 Shit.  I'm still in TX-14 and still being represented by a nutjob.  A big advantage of this house was that I thought it put me in TX-22.  The line must be a couple streets over.

I'd love to get He Who Must Not Be Named out, but I guess replacing any Democrats around here is a higher priority.

13 In light of all this scandal going on, would now be a good time to dredge back up Mark Foley's replacement in Fl that got busted shortly before the election for cheating on his wife with 2 mistresses and using public money to pay one off??  If I recall, wasn't there speculation that RAHM EMMANUEL was involved with that coverup???  Gee, whatever happened to that story??  Foley had done far less and received 5 times the coverage!!

14 32 Republicans vote yes; bummer.  Let's see what happens in the Senate.

15 I wonder what Officer Cardillo thinks of all this? Oh right,he's still dead! Google it.

16 Blagojevich.

JJ, Jr.

Rangel.

Dodd.

Just some guys in Obama's party.  Casual acquaintances.

Another thought:  How long does Fitzgerald have before he's replaced with his new Obama-Holder DoJ replacement.

17 How much support does it have in the Senate?

Well they are going to filibuster - do they have 60?

Seeing as most Republican held seats aren't in union territory, I doubt they can pick 9 Republicans assuming the Dems all vote for it.

Remember this is a UAW bailout - just look at where the Republicans who voted for it are from. Hint: MI. PA. OH...

18 I've never bought a car, in this country, that wasn't a GM or Chrysler. I'll never buy another one of their cars.

19 MCPO,

"I've never bought a car, in this country, that wasn't a GM or Chrysler. I'll never buy another one of their cars."


I grew up in downriver Detroit and it was seen as being a traitor to buy a Japanese car and put your fellow Americans out of work. I now think they are the traitors for forcing us to subsidize their poor products. I, like you, am swearing off the big three. If they are going to do what's right for themselves at the expense of the country, I will follow their lead and buy Toyota. I hope they enjoy the taste of the goose. Too bad there won't be any more golden eggs.

20 Duncan Hunter voted Yes?!?!? Am I reading that correctly?

21 As someone who lives in Michigan, I'm strangely neutral on it. If this bill will allow some hard core union busting, I'm all for it. However, if we're simply giving them money to fail in the next three months, why are we bothering?  I don't think the auto  companies have a very good plan on the table, at least from what I've heard, and why the hell are we giving loan money to Chrysler? They're a privately held company. And why didn't the government make Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, AIG, etc. jump through the same hoops they're making the Big 3 jump through? Is that fair?

One aside- just heard yesterday on tv that highest national unemployment is in Muskegon, MI at 22%. Number two is Detroit at just under 22%. Think about it- that's almost 1/4 of the able workforce on the dole. And there are no jobs here people- it's not that people don't want to work, there are dozens and dozens of applications for every one position.

Would letting the Big 3 fail cause this vast ripple of unemplyment to move into other states? I don't know. Possibly. In any case, no matter what, I pretty much feel that the taxpayer is going to get  screwed.

22 Yup, I'm done with the Big Three.  See ya.  My 2 Ford Explorer's started to have some major paint issues 5 years after owning them.  Numerous recalls.  Not worth it for this substandard crap.

23

OT

Anyone notice the "Agendas" are back up at Change.gov ????

24 OK, where's my reach around?

25 My 2 Ford Explorer's started to have some major paint issues 5 years after owning them.

You're lucky.  Ford trucks from the 70's rusted completely through within 18 months.

26
Dem's win another one with Rino help.

It's for the unions stupid.

27
Rangles som must be building then a web site.

28 The point is when I bought American it was for the good of my fellow American. Now that I see they believe I owe them that 80K+ job, they can kiss my business goodbye. I should have always bought the superior product and now I will.

29
Hmmm Lets not forget Benedict Mc Cain the Rino of Rinos.

30 Christmas bonuses all around!

31 Damn Ace, wassthedeal?

No caption contest?

32 Seriously, was Barney Frank at work today or did he phone it in?  Maybe that's why Rangel is smiling?  He had to take the phone call from Frank calling in gay!

33 So the UAW support bill passed the House. The leeches and parasites are savoring the Senate vote. I'm guessing the Dems are lining up the contributors and jobs for family members.

34 Hey, if Toyota is good enough for NASCAR, it's good enough for me.  We have a pair of Camrys.  Screw Detroit and the UAW.

35 That's got to be one of those shit-eat'n-grins you hear so much about.

36 locus--

The Japanese government essentially subsidizes Toyota.  If you're going to take a principled stand, why not apply it to everyone?  Same with most of the European manufacturers.  Hell... VW is 20% owned by the German government.

The reality is -- bailout, loan, whatever you want to call it -- the governments of the U.S. (federal, state, local) have crushed this industry after years of insane regulation, siding with labor unions, and being absent with an energy policy.  If I was the auto makers I'd just pack up and work on their international business, which from what I understand is doing rather well (present global credit / financial difficulties aside).

37 Charity with other people's money is so awesome. Especially when the beneficiaries are fat-cat CEOs and $130K/year to $150/year assembly line workers.

That's change I can believe in.

38 Hey Charlie, The Chosen One gonna take care of that 'ethics thing' for ya?

39 Damn you, Chuckie boy. I'll see you in hell, bastard.

40
Duncan Hunter voted Yes?!?!? Am I reading that correctly?

Posted by: JohnJ at December 10, 2008 10:28 PM (k/60i)

DH is very much a protectionist.

41 So this is a looter society after all. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. And just think, we'll all be here to witness the end!

42 jwcalla @ 36: I would advocate that they do exactly the same thing.  This is what the anti-outsourcing nutjobs don't understand.  Do you think all these supposedly 'unpatriotic' companies WANT to invest $$$ in potentially unstable Third World countries and deal with all the hassles therein?  No, it's because our government, via taxes, regulation and just general corruption, gives them few other options.  It's not about patriotism, it's about economics.

43

Oh, and it's too bad to see Peter King (NY) voted for it.  Too bad.  I was hoping to support him in his NY Senate run.

44 The best  arguement I heard on Talk Left radio yesterday was that the Big Three auto bailout was "only $35 Billion" compared to $700 Billion for the financial markets.   It was just a few short months ago that the Dems were running as the party against "corporate welfare".  It boogles the mind, and mine isn't easily boogled.

45 Wow... I just read through the bill.  If the auto companies sign on to this thing they must really be desperate.  There is just WAY too much government intervention in this thing; it's basically the touch of death.

46 Remember the days when people had the balls to get pissed off over taxes on tea?

What was their line...let's see here...something like "no taxation without representation"...I think.

Or maybe it was some motto that rhymed and they had drums made out of 5 gallon buckets.

It's time for some serious discussion about an actual revolt. Does anyone still have a desire to be free and to be represented by a competent and honest government, instead of ruled with an iron fist by the certifiably insane?

Strange times are coming.

47

 It was just a few short months ago that the Dems were running as the party against "corporate welfare". 

 

Yes. Too bad we don't have a functioning press in this country to rub their noses in that, a few trillion dollars in corporate welfare later.

48

I just bought a VW TDI Jetta. I'm getting 43 Hwy, 30ish City, 36-38MPG combined (Its the Bronx, whaddya want). More Torque than a Wookie losin' at dejarik. Its not an SEL (high end), but the fit and finish is excellent. Can sit my 6'4" frame with comfort. And aside from the engine (Germany), its made in Mexico. And for a diesel, its silent. No American company has anything that comes close. The only diesels are trucks. The "hybrids" are anemic bricks, getting only a few MPG more for much more money and no performance.

Meanwhile in the 80s Ford had a diesel Escort in Europe that did 52 MPG. Of course there was a massive black cloud behind it and it probably topped out at 35 MPH, but that's doable for city communting. Dust that off and slap it in a Focus chasis and they'd be golden. But they won't.

So every irresponsible shit out there gets a bailout, but the people who actually make this country work, ask for a two month tax holiday and are told to go fuck themselves. I say we return the favor.

Every Repuke, INCLUDING all talk no action McCOTTER, who voted for this, should have a primary challenger from the Club for Growth. I'm tired of this crap.

Every American who had to sweat tons of paperwork and anal-probe background checks to get a 30 year fixed should be marching on DC with torches and Mossberg 590s. Of course, we actually pay our debts, so we'll be slogging off to work while the scumbags call in gay.

49

Oh that's such a myth that lefties are against "corporate welfare".  Dems have NEVER been against corporate welfare.  They have only been against corporate welfare that they don't like.  Take Clinton's PNGV program.  The idea here was to create a 'partnership' between the government and auto makers to create greener cars.  (Sound familiar?)  This program lasted over NINE YEARS and the government put a ton of money into it.  And, so did the Big 3.  And, which car maker came out with the first hybrid?  GM? Chrysler? Ford? Nope.  Toyota.

50 The point is when I bought American it was for the good of my fellow American. Now that I see they believe I owe them that 80K+ job, they can kiss my business goodbye. I should have always bought the superior product and now I will.

Eggzactly.

51

In fact, a standard Dem talking point for socialized health care is that government would then be able to "relieve" companies from their burden of having to pay health insurance costs.  So corporate welfare is perfectly okay as long as it increases the power of government.

52 Duncan Hunter?  Based on his platform, he swore he never would do things like this.  So now we've established (as if we needed any more proof) that politicians see no reason whatsoever to do what they say they will, which is the only way we can decide who to vote for.
Now that representative democracy is dead, what do we do from here?

53

Yes, Hunter is a protectionist. He is also retiring from politics, so I am guessing he knew were the door was already. He campaigned on the importance of American industry, so I see this vote as being pretty much in character based on what he has said in the past. If this vote surprises you then you weren't paying attention during the primaries. I would also take Hunter over any of the Guiliani/McCain/Romney/Huckabee RINOS we had to choose from despite this vote.

54 Before we throw everyone under the bus, it looks like there's two different bills.

http://tinyurl.com/6l54vc
http://tinyurl.com/5fgqf2


H RES 1534   QUESTION:  On Agreeing to the Resolution BILL TITLE: Providing for consideration of H.R. 7321, to authorize financial assistance to eligible automobile manufacturers, and for other purposes
H R 7321  QUESTION:  On Passage BILL TITLE: Auto Industry Financing and Restructuring Act

55 NNext step? Ban the Japs?

56 Duncan Hunter?  Based on his platform, he swore he never would do things like this.  So now we've established (as if we needed any more proof) that politicians see no reason whatsoever to do what they say they will, which is the only way we can decide who to vote for.
Now that representative democracy is dead, what do we do from here?

Posted by: Flubber at December 11, 2008 12:22 AM (1bftB)


Well, bear in mind that the first thing Hunter did after dropping out was endorse Fuckabee... so try not to be too shocked at his vote here.

57 OK, where are the folks claiming Dunc was the only real conservative?

58 Duncan Hunter?

Commie bastard.

Yeah, he was right on the 2nd amendment, abortion, immigration, tax policy, war on terror. So the fuck what.

I disagree with him on this one, so fuck him.

RINO fuckwad.

Give me a real conservative.

Goddamn it.

59 If you look at thge vote totals you will see that it didn't matter what the Republicans did, the Dems had the votes without a single R.

60 If there's one industry in this country for which I'd vote a bailout, it's the auto industry. 

Not the banks, hell no. 

That doesn't mean I'm tickled with how Detroit's been run.  

All we can pray right now is that the economy revives a bit while energy prices are cheap, auto sales pick up and they're able to get out of the government's pockets before the "auto czar" and Obama's bunch of ecoloonies start trying to dictate product decisions. 

61 The GOP members of the house are just tetchy today. It was after all a "day without a gay" -- a gay strike as part of the campaign against Proposition 8 -- so there were no rent boys in the airports. What's a conservative Christian Republican to do?

62

One thing to keep in mind for this is they are using the old congress. If Reid doesn’t think he has the votes from Republicans he will not even bring it up for vote until the new Congress is seated.

63

The AP doesn't think  the bill has the votes in the Senate. Even some Dems are opposed to it because of the provisions to bail out city bus systems.

64 Duncan Hunter?

Commie bastard.

Yeah, he was right on the 2nd amendment, abortion, immigration, tax policy, war on terror. So the fuck what.

I disagree with him on this one, so fuck him.

RINO fuckwad.

Give me a real conservative.

Goddamn it.

Posted by: honest-to-god principled conservative at December 11, 2008 01:31 AM (OGdxh)


Do you disagree with Mike Huckabee on more than one issue?  Because that's who Duncan Hunter backed after he dropped out.  Pay the fuck attention.

65

Good read on the myths  surrounding the bailout vs chapter 11.  From this it is obvious that if this bailout goes through they will be back in less than a year for another one.

66 Next step? Ban the Japs?

Smoot Hawley II: Depression Boogaloo.

Not the banks, hell no.

Bully for you. The rest of us would rather not have any bailouts for any company.

67 Didn't Paul Ryan of Wisconsin also vote for the bill?  I thought he was one of the rising stars of the Republican party. I thought he was one of the leaders of a new Vanguard that we should look to in remaking the Republican party. 

I thought we already had a party that supports bailing out corrupt unions, failed business models and give them more taxpayer dollars to keep doing more of the same.  It's the "Dimocrat" party, isn't it?

68 You are strongthe  . The Senate is pretty!

69

If there's one industry in this country for which I'd vote a bailout, it's the auto industry. 

Lemme guess... you or someone close to you has ties to the auto industry.

70

Give me a real conservative.

Goddamn it.

Real Conservatives are out there.  Unfortunately, given the way things are going, we're far, far too chronically drunk to run for office.

71

Hooray for my TX Congressman, Lamar Smith, who listened to his constituents and voted NO for this POS bailout for POS automakers.

BTW, I love my Honda Pilot!!  Suck it Detroit!

72 Congress deserves a Wall Street type bonus for the fine job they've done this year.

73  And the damn bailout incudes (expletive deleted pork)  Raises for federal judges tucked into $14 billion auto bailout

74 All right! My Democratic Congresswoman, Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, listened to me and voted against it! Pleasantly surprised, but she is the head of the Blue Dogs.

If all Democrats were like her, we'd be a lot better off.

75 Thank God, two of the Big Three can stay in business for 7 more days!!  How much of the money ends up in the hands of corrupt union bosses or even maybe the freezer of those investment properties in NYC?  William Jefferson must have taught Rangel something.

76

I also agree with a loan to the auto industry if it means revamping the UAW and management so they can compete.  Without that restructuring though it is nothing but a boondogle doomed to failure. 

Correct me if I'm technically wrong but the 'bailout' is a loan and not a giveaway which makes a big difference.  Whether the terms of the loan and fine government print essentially makes it a giveaway is always a possibility unfortunately.

77

WASHINGTON – If the $14 billion bailout plan for U.S. automakers passes, it will help more than just Ford, Chrysler and General Motors. Federal judges would get a pay raise, as well.

The raise — an annual cost of living adjustment, or COLA — would bring U.S. District court judges up to par with members of Congress, who will receive an almost $5,000 boost on Jan. 1. District judges and lawmakers now earn $169,300 a year but are expected to be awarded a 2.8 percent raise next year, said Dick Carelli, a spokesman for the Administrative Office of the United States Courts.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., insisted that the judicial pay raise go into the automaker loan measure, which is the only item of business on Congress' lame-duck agenda.

It's nice that when people are being laid off or have pay freezes or reduced wages that commie judges will be making more money.

78 Hey, wait a second - You should know better than anyone that you can't pull an AP Photo off the wire and use it to illustrate an article, Gabe! Whatchoo trying to do here, get them all mad at you?

Regards,
Brian

79 "Duncan Hunter, former Republican candidate for president, voted "yes" to give the failed businesses your money"

Of course, he did. He's a Blue Dog Democrat in the wrong party. He supports protectionism, tariffs, opposes free trade, and of course, he'd support a bailout.

Indistinguishable from your garden variety Hoosier Democrat.

80 I had this great impression of Duncan Hunter a few years back.  And there was a time that I thought he was in a different class than Rudy and Mccain.

But he ain't.  He's just less well known.  Like Obama's supporters, I was filling in the blanks with policies I liked.  Duncan Hunter is a protectionist nanny who supported Huckabee.

Sadly, without all the nannies, we'd probably have 30 elected Republicans in this congress.  And without the kooks like Ron Paul, we'd have about 5.  At this point, it's basically about slowing down the democrats, not about getting real leaders (who apparently don't exist).  I am very concerned about this country.

81 http://tinyurl.com/6x4vcq

Appropriate song for this thread.

Band: Nip Drivers

Song: Talk About Cars

82

I'm not a fan of the bail out - but in fairness, this country's government has been letting our so-called trading "partners" screw over our domestic industry for a long time.  All part of the grossly mislabeled "free trade" policy.  You know - free trade - where everyone gets to put up barriers and subsidize industry except the US.  (As opposed to REAL free trade.)  The horrific trade imbalance, even discounting oil, is witness to that.  It was only a matter of time before a serious collapse of American production came about - the crappy big auto makers are only the most obvious.  The furniture industry is virtually gone - shipped out to China along with countless other forms of work.  Thanks to Clinton we're working to outsource aerospace to China.  As all those middle class jobs go out the window to be replaced by low paying service sector work it's going to drag the entire system down.  Our efforts to artificially prop up the dollar aren't helping - the falling dollar, while painful at the pump, was boosting exports and shrinking imports back toward balance (as one might predict).  Classic Adam Smith.  Now we have a high dollar, representing the economic productivity of a nation that produces less and less and owns an ever diminishing stock of productive capital.  We can't even force our public ed system to teach Johnny to read - let alone prepare him for a real education in some useful career.  Those that do productive work are increasingly burdened by the welfare rats, who breed like cockroaches.  It baffles me that our currency can remain so prized...

I'll admit - I was hoping that the fly wheel of the US economy would keep rolling until my death, but alas.  Seems it's not to be...  I'm sure glad I don't have kids.

83 Ask why?
Why is Ford not getting any money, but considered part of the big 3 pact?
Why is AIG paying their exec's bonus?
Why is Fannie and Freddie not showing us their plan to get positive cash flow?
Why is Toyota offering 0% loans on their vehicles?
Why is no one paying for the cost of Toyota's money?
Why is gas now $1.50 and heading for $1.00?
Unemployment stats use figures from unemployment benefits, why aren't the ones that are not employed and receiving no benefits added to total unemployment?
Why if you're unemployeed going to pay your mortgage, or rather how?
Why are people still crossing the border illegally?
Why do we not hear the background to any of these stories even on web based blogs?
Come January, ask why are there now 1M new unemployment benefits being paid?
Why ask why?

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