1 P.S. I looked for a picture of the display, but couldn't find one. If you see one, lemme know. (And if any Olympia-area readers pass by, take one and 'mail it to me!)

2 Yikes! As someone who is converting to Catholicism, I pity those ignorant souls and wonder what kind of life they must lead. Clueless at best...

3 There just mad because they never knew who to give their father's day cards too

4 Uh, do they think it's any less a Christmas tree by calling it a "Holiday tree"? Gabriel, are you pulling my leg here? Do they really call it that?

5 "...the 'real reason for the season, the winter solstice.' The solstice, on Dec. 21 this year, is the shortest day of the year."

That's it? That's all they've got? "Yay, this will be the shortest day all year!" When most people hate waking up in the dark and going home after work in the dark all winter. Par-TAY, you crazy atheists you.

6

Yeah but they pee on it.

7 Whatever.

8 Gabe - this broad was on the David Bose radio show today here in Seattle. She said the sign they ordered got lost by UPS so they had to make a subsitute themselves. ha ha ha ha!

I'm sure a picture will be on the front page of one of the papers. Yes, she was an angry woman.

9 PS: real atheists don't celebrate meaningless things like solstices. They celebrate important dates like Ayn Rand's birthday, etc. I know! Instead of a fake Christmas "holiday" tree, they can put up a big, gold-plated dollar sign. You know, like the one in John Galt's hidden valley in Atlas Shrugged. What can I say, I like to help.

10
Seattle, huh? Figures.

Remember when Seattle Stupid shared with us that Christians stole "christmas" from the Pagans?

11 Annie Laurie Gaylor isn't being truthful. I'm sure she worships Barry as her one true god.

12
This season we should recite poetry about Andrea Dworkin and the societal and communal importance of abortions on our society and community.

We should also turn off all lights for a few hours on December 25th to save the planet...

and our society...

and our community.

13 Remember when Seattle Stupid shared with us that Christians stole "christmas" from the Pagans?

Aaaahhhh, Seattle Slough and Christmas.  At this time of year, I am reminded of SS's plan to tell his 4-year-old that Santa was a myth, because he doesn't believe in lying to his children.

What a happy household that must be, huh?

14 Wow!    No one ever EXPLAINED it like that before!

I totally GET IT now!

I feel so....  Enlightened!

I now await my new master, Annie Laurie Gaylor, to fill my mind with proper knowledge.

/ummm, yeah, sarc off

15 Looking back over the 20th Century, I'd say the various atheists (Nazis & Commies) had the much harder hearts and enslaved a heckuva lot more people than teh stoopid Xtianists. 

Higher body count too.

16 She proves what many people believe: that atheism is a religion. A religion for spoiled, narcisstic brats.

17 But, but but... what about MY religion.

It's called the "Atheists are Fucking Douchebags and Should be Punched in the Groin Repeatedly" religion.

AFDSPGR isn't really as well known, but we're gaining in numbers as people hear of our movement.

Do I get to put up a sign too?

Heck, I don't have one prepared, but I can wing it.

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to All, Happy Holidays.

-- Sponsored by the people who believe Atheists are fucking douchebags and should be punched in the groin repeatedly.

See, people of my religion can be classy.  Who would oppose peace on earth and goodwill to all?

18
I am reminded of SS's plan to tell his 4-year-old that Santa was a myth, because he doesn't believe in lying to his children.

Ahh, yes, memories. And I asked him if he told his kids they would turn into worm-food when they asked what happens when they die.

19
We're all about peace and love. Why can't you fucking people understand that?

Why do have to be so hateful and ignorant and intolerant???

God I hate you people so much.

20 AFDSPGR isn't really as well known, but we're gaining in numbers as people hear of our movement.

I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

21 "...the 'real reason for the season, the winter solstice.' The solstice, on Dec. 21 this year, is the shortest day of the year."

That's like saying the reason for Halloween is Election Day.

(One other thing, you stupid bint. It is only the "shortest day of the year" NORTH of the equator, you hemispherophobe.)

22 "real reason for the season, the winter solstice."

Whoa.. that is so, like deep.

So shit-for-brains, AKA "Annie Laurie Gaylor", figures the peasants do not already know that.

23 What is this "heart" of which they speak?
Hardened? How?
These people are not rational speakers.

24

There just mad because they never knew who to give their father's day cards too

Ouch!

25 The Freedom from Religion Foundation podcast is a real hoot. Atheism their religion. They say things like "that song/movie/saying/6-4-3 double-play reminds us all that there is no God, heaven, hell or satan" as often as televangelists talk about those things in the affirmative.

26
This really is a tough time of year for the angry god-hating atheists.

All the more reason to put more Christmas lights up, turn up the volume on Christmas songs, and wish everyone you see a MERRY CHRISTMAS!

27 I am reminded of SS's plan to tell his 4-year-old that Santa was a myth, because he doesn't believe in lying to his children.

Ahh, yes, memories. And I asked him if he told his kids they would turn into worm-food when they asked what happens when they die.

Why would you want to make your kid cry?

28

Winning hearts and minds by driving 9" nails deeply into the eyes of your opponents is a hallmark of atheistic leftwards everywhere.

Thus does the brilliant-but-full-of-himself philosopher of science Daniel Dennett characterize atheists such as himself as being among an nointed group called "The Brights".

As opposed to religious people, The Stupids.

"Bright" males tend to be like those we saw in the post-election Manhattan meeting video :  not a descended testicle to be found in the lot.

 

 

29 We're all about peace and love. Why can't you fucking people understand that?

Why do have to be so hateful and ignorant and intolerant???

God I hate you people so much.

That's a whole lotta "peace and love" you got going on there.

30 Anybody notice how every Christmas commercial uses that rat song from Nutcracker? Makes me want to spread joy and cheer with a flamethrower.

31 Something I heard the other day I liked. The trouble with atheists is they talk about God all the time. 

32 All it's missing is the "and daddy NEVER LOVED ME!" line at the bottom to be perfect.

33

I'm somewhere along the agnostic/atheism continuum, and I've got to say, I can't stand other atheists. And what is it with groups of them? Why the hell would I want to join a group of people to talk about how much we don't believe in God? It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Something I heard the other day I liked. The trouble with atheists is they talk about God all the time. 

Exactly.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all. And, it is a Christmas tree, damn it, not a "Holiday" tree. (Really, what "Holiday" is the "Holiday Tree" representing?)

34

I was sooooo waiting for someone at my favorite Blog to pick up on this story. And, yes, they really do call it a "Holiday Tree." In Washington, well the western part at least, we must at all times be all things tolerant and inclusive to whomever the liberals say we should be tolerant and inclusive to. I'm sure it's all environmentally friendly as well, wouldn't want ELF to come along and burn anything down in a fit of pique.

The text of the sign really offends me, but I don't think anyone cares if a Christian is offended because after all our hearts are hardened and our minds are enslaved so we obviously cannot see the righteousness of this oh so tolerant viewpoint.

OTOH I was explaining the nativity story to my son tonight and as I was talking it through I did momentarily think to myself "this is some crazy shit I'm spouting."

35 Eh, pagans have their own thing, their own "reason for the season" and which came first/if anyone "stole" anything from anybody is kind of lost to the ages and irrelevant (at least to me).

I have a 12" pentagram on my front door right now. Granted, it's all decorated up with holly and silk poinsettia leaves so it's just a "wreath" but... yeah. Whatever.

I don't get why people get so pissed about Christmas (or Yule or whatever). If they can't get into the religion aspects of it, can they not at least get into the spirit, in a secular way?

Do these people just invent shit to get offended about? C'mon...

36 Activist atheists are a bunch of killjoy assholes .
 Our little family celebrates the solstice and Christmas . On the solstice we build a bonfire and shoot fireworks . It's my own personal acknowledgment of my pagan ancestors . Makes for a nice prelude to the traditional Christmas celebration .
 My folks always made Christmas a wonderful season and I've tried to keep that same warm feeling in my own family.
 I love Christmas . Even after 53 years on this green earth I'm not cynical about it. I hope all you morons have a good holiday , whatever your religious tradition.

Perhaps, for this years solstice I'll have a wicker man for the bonfire and put an atheist, hobo, or a liberal inside.

37 atheism is a religion

About all it lacks is a deity, which is even there if one were to count mother nature/gaia notions as a deity.  They got the dogma and faith in the unprovable parts down pretty well.

38

These people, the focus shouldn't be on their atheism, it she be focused the fact that they are dicks.

I'm an atheist, but I don't piss in other peoples soup, and I enjoy greatly taking part in their celebrations when invited.

There are a lot of people who never wore the uniform, but on November 10th, Marines come together and people respect it, because those of was who were do, it's called respect.

On Thanksgiving, people who aren't Americans respect the remarkable story that is thanksgiving.

It isn't that these people are atheists, it's that they are dicks who use atheism as a hateful secular religion to offend others.

In otherwords, their mommies didn't love them.

39 As a Druid, I demand they put the official Druid coat of arms on display. It's my right to free speech and I should be allowed that justas much as every other idiotic group that comes down the pike.

40 Even Jesus would tell you being a dick is no way to win people to your cause!

41 It's a religion of the perpetually offended. They proselytize by offending others, thus attracting a particularly offensive ilk.

42 I'm an atheist, my Dad loved me (still does, or so he says) and while I'd keep my mouth shut around dues paying members of AFDSPGR, I respect their right to exist. I would hope they would extend the same courtesy to my privates, but there's no getting along with some people.

Which brings me to my real point. I love this season. I love my wife and kids, I am not afraid to do the whole Santa thing when they are little, and while I think religion has been a mixed bag throughout history, I think that for most people, it is a force for  good in their lives.

I like the Christmas story. Shit, I even want to keep Christ in Christmas. Because that is what it is about, for them that believe in it, and I figure the public square is plenty big enough for RamadaChrismaHanaKwaanzaka or whatever people like. I just happen to not believe in the ontological bases for these things. I don't think that they enslave anyone. Culture does tend to blind us to some stuff, but that is always true. It isn't just religion.

Here's what I get from it- this season is sacred to a lot of people, even me, in a peculiar secular way. It's a time of good will, love in spite of difference, and not a time to take a dump on what other people hold dear. I'm not afraid that people believe stuff that I don't, and so long as I can go on my way without swearing fealty to anyone else's god, God, G_d, or goddess, then by all means celebrate, prosyltize, carol, sing, wassol, make bofires, worship the shortest day of the year, and I am happy to celebrate along with all of you.

So these atheists don't speak for me.

43 What is this "heart" of which they speak?
Hardened? How?
These people are not rational speakers.

Atheists are well known for their kind, soft hearts, but in particular, their rationality.  Just ask them.

44 Why would you want to make your kid cry?

I think Wickedpinto nails it above:

It isn't that these people are atheists, it's that they are dicks who use atheism as a hateful secular religion to offend others.

In other words, their mommies didn't love them.

45

So where do I sign up for this lifetime of anger they're offering? It sounds like a really sweet deal.

46 Also, people like SS and the ones who posted that sign require this type of offensive "in your face" attention to validate their own personal issues.

47 I know! Instead of a fake Christmas "holiday" tree, they can put up a big, gold-plated dollar sign. You know, like the one in John Galt's hidden valley in Atlas Shrugged. What can I say, I like to help.

Hasn't Christmas become a dollar sign anyway?

Rand was closer than she thought to defining the true meaning of Christmas.

:-)

48

Fucking delusional godbags. If you bothered to think things through you wouldn't be so goddamned happy.

Look at me.  I've thought it through, and I'm good and pissed.

 

That's how I know I'm right! 

49 #10--Olympia isn't Seattle -- not even close. As I recall, just about its only claim to fame is (was?) that it was home to some horrible tasting beer that everyone drank at high school keggers because it was cheap. Oh, and the governor had to spend an occasional week there.

50 *points and laughs*

Evangelical atheists are so pathetic.  You have to wonder how empty a person's life must be to make him behave that way.

(please note I specified evangelical atheists, not garden-variety live and let live atheists.)

51 So where do I sign up for this lifetime of anger they're offering?

Firedoglake or Huffington post might be a good place to start.  They seem to have found a perpetual motion machine for anger.

52

I think maybe these atheists need a new symbol.  What I propose is pretty simple:

*

There's nothing in this world, after all, more perfectly rational than an asshole.

 

53

There can be love and peace and harmony on earth just as soon as you Jesus humpers stop stealing Santa Claus from the Druids.

 

54

Gabe,

I will be praying for you and your problems in LA.  Love the sinner not the sin.

OK, enough of being nice, were is the Fucking Islamic shit, on the lawn? The other chosen people, not the joos, will be really pissed if we don't have a suicide bomber or something to show our love for "the religion of peace".

Let's get it on, what dot the Mohammedans want us to put on the lawn, before they blow us up.

Kemp

 

55 48 replies into an "atheist" thread and no Christoph?

He must be at a hockey match.

56

Also, alway call these assholes Mohammedans, it is suppose to piss them off.

Kemp

57 55 48 replies into an "atheist" thread and no Christoph?

He must be at a hockey match.   Christoph has been banned for rudeness above and beyond the call of duty.  Using the C word in excessively.   No more Canadians joos to piss us off, sort of his ass though.   Kemp

58 Speaking as one godless heathen...these petty, bitchy, carping little pissant attention-whores don't represent me.

Just shut the fuck up and enjoy the pretty lights, and quit trying to make yourself feel better by dragging everyone else down to the depths of your misery and self-loathing.  And yes, that's exactly what it is, because if you were at all comfortable with your own beliefs (or lack thereof) you wouldn't feel threatened by a completely inoffensive set of someone else's beliefs.

Unless you were anally gang-raped by a nativity scene, donkeys first.  In which case, y'know...my bad.

59 Sometimes I really wish that my religion did not require that I love and forgive these people.

But that's why being a Christian is hard, and being a douchebag is easy. Douchebaggery requires relatively little effort.

Carrying the cross daily is not for pansies.

Watch Gibson's Passion of the Christ to see how a real man rolls.

60

Aren't athiests supposed to die before becoming worm-food?

And wouldn't it really suck if they find out then that they were actually wrong about that no-God thing?

61 Christoph finally got banned??  SWEET.  I've been waiting for the hammer to drop on that fucker for a long time.  Anyone happen to have a link to the thread where it happened?

62 How to Win Friends and Influence People. 101

63

I think Jesus said that in the end times, knowledge will be increased. I think the Angel told Daniel  to shut up the words until the time of the end.

Bible code..more computers going after it. Old testement. True, so far....

64 I am always a bit surprised -- and disappointed -- when conservatives fall for the same silly stereotypes that we laugh about in liberals.

I've been an atheist since I was a young teenager, but that didn't stop me from enlisting in the Army and staying from '64 to '85.  I was certainly not the only "atheist in a foxhole," and I've seen Silver Stars, Legions of Merit and a lot of combat medals pinned on atheists in all Services.

Everyone I worked with knew I was not religious, and we respected each other's beliefs, and got along fine.  I respect the good that religion does in society, and have no problem with "In God We Trust" on currency, or prayer at taxpayer-funded events.  It's tradition. It's history. And we should honor that without getting our panties in a bunch whenever religion is a part of a public ceremony.

Is there some rule that says all conservatives must be religious?  I missed that notice on the bulletin board, apparently.  I think it's fair to say that I'm FAR more conservative than most, and consider most Republican politicians to be gutless leftists, embracing policies that would have made Hubert Humphrey cringe.

Confusing politics with religion is not only small-minded, it's just plain dumb, and I would hope my conservative friends would be able to see beyond the lame litmus-test philosophy that the leftist fruitcakes are so fond of.

Whereas liberals are told what to think by their "leaders," I like to believe that one of the hallmarks of conservatism  is our ability to think independently and respect the rights of others.

65 I work at ORD, and every year, they put up a bunch of "Holiday Trees" in the terminals, ("This Holiday Tree sponsored by McDonalds", etc.) and every year, some anonymous hero of mine takes a bigass Sharpie and blacks out the word "Holiday" and writes "Christmas."

I wouldn't dare insult the Joos by calling something a "Holiday Menorrah" or a "Holiday Star of David", and I certainly wouldn't insult them by implying that putting lights and shiny balls on a tree that you cut down and bring inside your living room is a tradition of the Only Holiday Which Matters.
(After all, shitsforbrains, there are 3 or 4 "holidays" going on in December.)

As a reminder to all shitsforbrains, the word "holiday" is nothing more than a melding of the word "holy day."
So Happy Holidays right back at you, dumbshits.

Chai,

Welcome to the club. We'll teach you the Secret Handshake on Easter morning.

66

RamadaChrismaHanaKwaanzaka

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!  I'm keeping that! 

Happy RamadaChrismaHanaKwaanzaka  Everyone!

67 Mas'Sarge,

The actions which prompted this post were real. No stereotype about it.

The annoyance is not with atheists - the annoyance is with shitsforbrains who try to smudge what is the Second Holiest Day of the Year for a goodly number of earthlings.

I have no problem with whatever method of worship (including watching football on the couch) that anyone chooses to employ.

But to put up signs next to a Christmas display just to be an asshole is the epitome of childishness and selfishness.

68 Mrs. Peel, I think that may have been in one of the Mumbai-Still Going posts.  Quite possibly the one that got accidentally deleted.

69

It was Methos, he called shannon a C several times, immediately after drew specificaly said to watch that shit.

Top,

You might need to double check the thread, especialy those comments made by atheists, and other commenters who interact with atheists.

The problem isn't atheism, it's these jackholes who get all of the press with their non atheist pagan comparisons.

70 I fully support the right of atheists to marry gays.

71 Is there some rule that says all conservatives must be religious?

I completely agree with your sentiments.  In fact, we saw a lot of evangelicals turned out for Obama.   The GOP should learn from this and make it easier for moderate liberatrians to join in and not get so hung up on socially conservative issues at the national level.  Social policy is best determined at the local level.

72 are we getting long term concerned tolerant christian conservatives?

73 Atheists get damn near every day of the year. Let Christians have Christmas.

I once worked with an atheist who I tried to be friends with, but she was always wanting to pick fights about God. She brought up God more than I ever did.

I asked her if she wasn't being a hypocrite by recognizing and celebrating Christmas. She said no and why should she miss out on getting gifts?

74 #34 -- Hope you got that pentagram right way up...

75 Nice of the atheists to mention the solstice, as it is the source of many religous holidays, the annual rebirth of the Sun. That it is a pretty universal holiday would suggest that it has a pretty universal significance, something I'm sure atheists think is stupid, but when it is so wide spread across time and cultures, maybe the atheists are the stupid ones ?

Of course I am just a moron, so who cares.

76 " They celebrate important dates like Ayn Rand's birthday, etc. "

Speaking of which, was today Jack London's birthday or something? Cuz I was watching this gorgeous Husky at the Coffee Bean and every few minutes it would sit up, utter a single short howl, and lay back down again...

77 Is there some rule that says all conservatives must be religious? 

I consider myself an atheist, but I am not an obnoxious, in-your-face, atheist.  I believe that you are free to believe what you wish and I could care less about public displays of religion.  I do not feel like my rights are violated by these displays.  I attend church with my family for christenings, weddings, and funerals, without feeling the need to make my personal beliefs or non-beliefs the center of attention.

Yet, I am a conservative.  And I find that most conservatives are okay with my personal beliefs, as long as I don't attempt to make a big deal out of it.  Liberals, however, tend to feel the need to make a scene about their beliefs, whether it be religion, global warming or whatever.

78
The GOP should learn from this and make it easier for moderate liberatrians to join in and not get so hung up on socially conservative issues at the national level.

For example?

79 Shannon, as an atheist myself, I have found that the ones who are the most in-your-face about the non-existence of God don't so much as not believe in him as they hate his fucking guts.

80 Taking bets on how long before someone trashes the sign?

81 31 Something I heard the other day I liked. The trouble with atheists is they talk about God all the time.  Posted by: Doc

You bastard.... you complete and utter dickweed... why couldn't you wait for me to come up with that dammit?  That's genius.  Now I'm upset that I didn't come up with it... jerk.

82 Betcha $20 Ms. Gaylor was one of the first elbow-throwers through the door when the mall opened friday at 4am. 

83 J. Wilde wins.

84 "Christoph has been banned for rudeness above and beyond the call of duty."

And I missed it. I got to cut down on the work hours, and increase my AoS quality time.

Priorities, priorities. Hell, I bought a hobo hunting license last year and only went out twice. OK, I know the money goes to improving hobo habitat and all; but still, if I get the license, I ought to at least fill my freezer.

85

It was easy to miss notropis.  There was a warning, then some crazy then the c word in repettition, then deletions and a banning.

maybe 10 minutes in all.

86 Bart - Legalize pot and the libertarians are yours. they can't find their way to the polling station, but they're yours...

87 MSarge, I specified evangelical atheists for exactly that reason.  I have no problem with people who simply don't believe - that's their business.  I have a problem with assholes.  Evangelical atheists are assholes who, not content to simply leave people alone, constantly get in people's faces about their beliefs and tell them how wrong and stupid they and their beliefs are and how they are slaves to an evil ideology and blah blah blah.  (yes, I also find Christian evangelists annoying.)

Christoph is a perfect example, and I am going to celebrate his banning with a cookie before bed.  Thanks for the info, Methos & WP!

88 Wow.

And now we've got "the c word" to go along with "the n word." I think I'm going to just start throwing around the phrase: "the r word," and leave it up to the filthy imaginations of everyone else as to what it might be.

"You know, this guy was at the bar, and we were just sort of drinking and shooting the shit, and he seemed alright. Then he just starts throwing out 'the r word' and, well, I have to draw the line somewhere, so I told him to shut the fuck up and go the fuck home."

89 J. Wilde 79 - Yeah, that's what I came to learn from her behavior. What people believe (or don't) doesn't bother me and its none of my business.

90 I'm fine with regular atheists, godbags, whatever, as long we tolerate each others' beliefs. Whatevs. I'm a Christian Lite, but really any excuse for a party is good with me, and that includes solstice, Juneteenth, and the first day of dove season.

But this Annie Lannie Taylor person sounds like a Madalyn Murray O'Hair wannabe. Honey, ol' Madalyn did not have a happy life.

91 As a conerned Christian conservative, I'm worried that this reflexive rejection of evaqngelical atheism might represent an undertone of intolerance that could keep Republican voters away from the polls...

92 And as a concerned intellectual secular conservative, I find Mr. Kondracke's point both insightful and prescient.

93

well notrop there is a context forgiveness.  Christoph specificaly called Shannon a C-word.

I've used the word serveral times, without guilt, but in general C-word is more appropriate.

Christoph was specificaly challenging drew to ban him, and was pissed off that everyone was giving shannon hi-5's.

94 The sign reads, "Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."
Spokesperson said in a prepared statement that the sign is a reminder of the "real reason for the season, the winter solstice."

These atheists need to go back to marketing school.

Shouldn't a reminder of the solstice acutally MENTION the solstice?

95 It's really not that big of a deal, but if you must, the post is still available at the old "new" site. It is, however, 468 comments long, so have fun with that.

96 "the first day of dove season"

That's one hell of a day for a party in Minnesota. It was a 50 year fight, but we won it, so far.

We're still battling folks that call mourning doves "the biblical symbols of peace." No shit.

See: this link, for example.

97

Christoph banned?

When?  In what thread?  What sort of thunderclap of doom descended upon him and who hurled the bolt?

Surely Ace and his many Satanic Spawn will not deny us the chance to savor the delicious irony of that clown being bell, book and candled into the darkness.

 

98 93 - It didn't bother me and I didn't try to bait him into using it. I guess its a house rule, which I didn't know.

99 I guess its a house rule, which I didn't know.

It's not a house rule, it's common flipin' decency. And he was warned. It capped a rough couple of weeks for Christoph. Banned at Hotair, Patterico's, and finally AOSHQ. He was at the end of his rope.

100

For those that are thinking the economy sucks  blame the atheists.  Their taking christmas out of the holiday's is just one more reason to not buy presents. 

 

 

101 "Christoph was specificaly challenging drew to ban him"

That is unwise. Never challenge someone to do something, when they have the power to do it, and you have no power to retaliate.

I speak from experience, having confronted my ex- with "Go ahead, stop the sex -- see if I care." She did; and I did. And, well, you can guess how it went, or didn't, from there.

102

 

Christoph was banned for spelling honor honour and that other hokey canadian horseshit.

103

I gots no problems with teh Atheists putting up their signs,
I just wish they'd do it on their own Holy Days, not mines.

A Moderate Christian

104 We've been Californicated. I hope they flee to Canada next.

105

I think I may be travelling down to Taco-ma tomorrow. I'll see if I can swing by teh capital and snap a few pics of the sign -  if traffic is tolerable.

 

 

106 no one knows what tomorrow happen,so try your best to live

107 Thanks Gabe!  That was a long thread, but totally worth it.  Beautiful work, Shannon.

Next question:  What happened with Kat-Mo?

108

Shannon, it's not your fault or the houses.

Christoph was being a shitty little bitch the whole fucking thread, and while I don't hate him, probably like you, I don't hate him, just disagree with him, Christoph really wasn't talking to you.  He was pushing and pushing and pushing.

And I believe that gabe was tentative about the banning and was waiting for Ace's go ahead.

And Christoph finaly just did it without concern, thinking he could blame oppression or shit.

It's not your fault, it's his, don't feel bad or anything, and it's not exactly a house rule, if you could have seen the original thread and compared it to the unedited one that gabe linked, he was really going out of his ways to push buttons.

109  And I believe that gabe was tentative about the banning and was waiting for Ace's go ahead.

For the record, I did not ban Christoph.

110 Sorry gabe, I meant drew.

111

I was on the King 5 website (local NBC affiliate) and read the rest of the quote, which I hadn't read before:

At this season of the Winter Solstice may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Not to get all whoo-whoo here but I do think there are angels among us, for example Moshe's nanny. Were they sent by a god? Who knows, but many great things have been accomplished by human "angels" on this planet. And there are devils as well. Maybe not "The" devil, but there are truly evil people who also walk among us. I believe those who were terrorized in Mumbai can attest to the existence of hell on earth. And every parent glimpses a little bit of heaven when their child is born. Maybe not "The" heaven or hell spoken of in religions, but still.

I have for years now been saying the politically correct "Happy Holidays" to people. In rebellion to this intolerant display of tolerance everyone gets "Merry Christmas" from me this year.

112 Ok, this is not about equal time or tolerance now, this is a blatant and disgusting attack on a religion here.  This could have been any religion, and it would have been just as terrible.  The illuminati left wants us to treat this as any other Christmas display, but it isn't.  Religious persecution, no matter how subtle, is still persecution.

113 I'm an atheist.
I'm not a liberal.
My favorite president (during my life) was Reagan (I lean toward Jackson, Jefferson, Madison, and TRoosevelt, for historical).
I think the sign is pompous and arrogant.
We have a Christmas tree, lights - we celebrate Christmas. I don't care about the religious aspect, but the sentiments involved are kinda nice.
I like Christmas displays (and can equally enjoy Hannukah, Winter Solstice and other holiday displays (okay, a bit iffy on Kwanzaa)) - they're pretty.
By the way - nice showing of Christian principles of acceptance, love and forgiveness from most of you.
I've noticed there are apparently two types of atheists. There are the kind like me, who simply have no need for a religion, but don't really care what other people do. Free country and all that. Don't spend my money on it, don't shove it down my throat (I actually have a reasonable solution to displays in government buildings, but no one wants to hear it - it's reasonable).
The other kind are represented by the people who made the stupid sign. They DO treat atheism as a religion - in the annoying evangelical way. Everyone MUST agree with them, everyone MUST have "the word" thrust upon them, and anyone who disagrees is clearly stupid or otherwise defective. I don't like that sort of atheist, EITHER.
Just try to avoid painting us all with the same brush.
Merry Christmas (or Happy Hannukah, or whatever greeting you like) (go ahead, say it back - it doesn't offend me...)

114 I have for years now been saying the politically correct "Happy Holidays" to people. In rebellion to this intolerant display of tolerance everyone gets "Merry Christmas" from me this year.

I did that too for awhile until I saw all these stories about Christmas being sieged. Now I tell everyone "Merry Christmas." And it's Christmas Break, not Winter Vacation. At least be honest about why you're getting school/work off. Just like "Spring Break" is really Easter Break.

My parents didn't raise us to be religious and I guess I'm very loosely Christian, sort of, but I love this season. I look forward to it every year. It's about family and good food and pretty lights and decorations and being charitable and getting shit for free.

So Merry Christmas, all! You can take your "Happy Holidays" and eat it.

115 Some of you mentioned how some atheists obsess over God more than some Christians do. That sounds like the perfect description of that guy here in CA that's trying to ban the Pledge of Allegiance because it says "under God." And the people trying to get "In God We Trust" off our currency. What's with the obsession with a deity they don't believe in?

Scratch what I said about being loosely Christian. I think I'm more of a deist.

116

Atheist in Arizona,

I think that when I'm accepted into the celebration of a religious right, be it communion (non-believers can take communion) at funerals, or christenings and baptisms, is a beautiful thing, and I am thankful that I'm allowed.  When believers say grace, and hold your hand, even they know that I'm an unbeliever, is a beautiful thing.

I think that being welcomed into any religious right by a believer, even though they know that you don't, is a beautiful thing.

These fucknuts are in the "YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" class of humanity.  They demand that they can tell YOU what to do, but how DARE! you ask for simple courtesy?

They know all, it's like having someone stand up at a religious wedding and protest monogamy as a racist, and male dominated institution meant to keep women ignorant oppressed and pregnant, and they weren't even fucking invited.

These are sad little people who only find joy in making other people feel miserable.  Funny thing is, that their antics actually validates faith not destroy it.  Which, as an atheist, I think is a good thing.

Fuck these hateful little pricks who think atheism requires the destruction of religion, IIRC thats marxist faith, not atheism.

117 Perhaps someone could explain to me how a freedom-from-religion athiest supports the celebration of the Winter Solstice?   That's as much a religious holiday for those who celebrate it as Christmas is for Christians.   Have we not had it explained to us many times that the reason for celebrating the birth of Christ at this time (not knowing precisely when He was born!) was to allow converting pagans to still have their party?    Makes sense to me, anyhow.

I'm less convinced that the holly, mistletoe, evergreen tree and lights are pagan so much as they are obvious decorative choices in winter in a time before the invention of brightly colored plastic.

118

I think that when I'm accepted into the celebration of a religious right, be it communion (non-believers can take communion) at funerals, or christenings and baptisms, is a beautiful thing, and I am thankful that I'm allowed

 

wicked, it's an amazing thing when you get accepted into anything

119 As an atheist, I wish other atheists wouldn't make me hate them so frickin' much.

I'll be happily celebrating Christmas with my family and think those dickheads can shove that sign up their ass.

120 They even have an Atheist tombstone if you are one and die and get buried in Arlington. Its very Star Trek 1960's.

121

 

These type of atheists blame all of the world's ills on religion -- wars, famine, etc. They're ultra leftwing nitwits who think the world would be better off without religions. In a nutshell, they're silly bastards who have a distorted view of the world and history.

122 I'm not the least bit religious but I am beyond fucking sick of atheists trying to piss in everyone else's oatmeal.  The only way you can feel threatened by the Judeo-Christian underpinnings of our country is if you've embraced some kind of secular equivalent of religion.  And the most vile strains of atheism seem to come from leftist douchebags who see faith-oriented "simpletons" as an obstacle to successful class warfare and self-obsessed emotional infants who resent any checks on their personal behavior/self-expression and don't give a flying fuck about the consequences to society if everyone were to throw the concept of morality and restraint under the bus.

123 It seems like we're Christophists.   We try so hard to get him out, and when we do, all we do is talk about him.

For the record,  I was there that night.  First, someone complained that he was posting a TON.   Then....

Shannon smacked him hard (it was a low blow.  Funny to me, because I wasn't the target, but harsh nevertheless).

A few of us started piling on.   I tried to get him to apologize.  Then he went apeshit.  Threw around the C word; then specifically called Shannon the C word, and called all of us the C word (I was honoUred).   Begged for a banning, and then got it.

All he had to do was apologize, but there was no way he was gonna.  Inevitable, really.

124

Militant atheists are truly gaining much ground in perverting our Constitution and our institutions with the goal of installing atheism as the official state religion of the US of A.

And, it is a religion. A way of belief. And it is being imposed upon all of us through judicial activism.

Enemy of all who've taken the oath and hold themselves bound by it.

125 WTF is a holiday tree?

They must make really shitty parents....

"Daddy, do you love me?"
"No.  Mystical concepts such as love are phony.  It is a chemical reaction that is an evolutionary carry-over to ensure the perpetuation of the species.  Otherwise I'd get rid of you because you ruin my fun time and drain my bank account."

"Once blind, I now can see".  Speaking from an intellectual/philosophical perspective... Many people IMHO are at least deists by having seen the beauty in the world: having climbed to the summit and being awe-struck by the landscape, the unfiltered, unrefined joy in a young child's smile and laugh.  To not feel such things or just ascribe it to some biological quirk is depressing.  As shitty as the world seems at times, there is much beauty too.  For those willing to see it.  While I do not begrudge the typical agnostic/atheist, "intellectual atheism" is different.  It is a philosophy with a foundation built of anger and depression.  The nihilism that drives a person to write The God Delusion, God Is Not Great, or that crap in the display is disheartening.  Imagining that regardless how great or sinister a life you live is ultimately totally meaningless... that it doesn't matter if you are a Hitler or a Mother Theresa... what then is the point to being decent, really?  why not be cruel, manipulative, and extremely machiavellian?  I am not arguing that the only reason to be good is for the 'get out of hell free" card.  But intellectual atheism must deny any higher concept of good, evil, justice, injustice because there is nothing more than the material world.  I recall it being very close in concept to Anton laVey's Church of Satan.  The end of that SP episode about the mormons explains it all: the mormon kid says something to the effect of: "yeah sure there are some dumb aspects to it.  but i have a great life and a great family, and I have my faith to thank for that.  If you just want to dog it and not be around me, fine.  But that makes you the asshole".  Point.  Game.  Match.

126

I guess Christoph just never understood the old joke:

A man has just been convicted of a traffic violation and ordered to pay a $200 fine.  He looks up at the judge and says: "What happens if I call you a cunt?"  The judge says: "I'll hold you in contempt of court, fine you $500, and you'll spend a week in lockup."  The man thinks for a minute and says: "Ok, but what if I just think that you're a cunt?"  The judge says: "It is a free country and you are entitled to think whatever you like."  The man ponders for a few more seconds and then says: "Ok, judge. I think you're a cunt."

It's all in the delivery, baby!

127

Stupid atheists are missing stuff like THIS. And about those RC album covers from the 60s and 70s?  They were the best.

128 Annie Laurie Gaylor, foundation co-president, said in a prepared statement that the sign is a reminder of the "real reason for the season, the winter solstice." The solstice, on Dec. 21 this year, is the shortest day of the year.

I fully expect to be able to call your organization on 25 December and get an answer. Surely you don't take off false holidays?

129 It's called the "Atheists are Fucking Douchebags and Should be Punched in the Groin Repeatedly" religion.

Where do I sign up? do I have to tithe, or can I substitute a certain number of punched atheists?

130

The solstice, on Dec. 21 this year, is the shortest day of the year

 

Isn’t December the 21^st the shortest day of the year EVERY year and not just this year?

131 Do these people just invent shit to get offended about? C'mon...

Some people are not happy unless they're miserable. It isn't logical, but it is human.

132

#10--Olympia isn't Seattle -- not even close. As I recall, just about its only claim to fame is (was?) that it was home to some horrible tasting beer that everyone drank at high school keggers because it was cheap. Oh, and the governor had to spend an occasional week there.

And we totally fucked up their Peace & Justice Community calendar!

I don't recall why.

133 @130--

No, the Winter Solstice can vary by a day or two from year to year.

134

Hey, Lemon Party!

135 See, I support that sign because I like it when people open their mouths and remove all doubt. 

136 non-believers can take communion

Not in a Roman Catholic, or any of the Orthodox or other Eastern Catholic churches, you can't. Or at least, you shouldn't. Unlike our protestant brethren, we actually consider communion to be the actual body of Christ.

I say this as a Concerned, Catholic Conservative Republican.

137

Perfectly appropriate atheist ad bought on D.C. Metro buses:

"Just be Good for Goodness' Sake."

Harmless, not in-your-face, and reasonable advice. Naturally, there was a big--needless--controversy about it.

Glad to hear that Christoph got banned. At first he was just an annoying provocateur starved for attention. Over time, though, his annoying "lookit" act got old. Didn't like the guy's posts from the get-go.

138 "real reason for the season, the winter solstice."

Unless you believe in God, who created the solstice, which would make Him the reason for the solstice. In that case, I'm glad to know that the Atheist are in support of another of God's creations. Now we just have to teach them to prioritize.

139

We atheists have a sign?  Crap, I don't even know the secret handshake. 

Although we don't believe in stuff, it's nice to know we are getting organized. 

140 Ironic thread subject: the attempt of atheists to "vanquish" religion by referencing the universal experience with nature. All ancients expressed their experiences with nature. The Winter Solstice is a marvelous moment rich in lore and tradition. If atheism is the revision of all things into nothingness, the atheists have already dissolved their own existence. Whatever they do is mere negative energy; so deflect their efforts back onto their own source if you are to retain your own good essence. Remember that atheism and socialism work to empower each other politically and culturally to the demise of the individual's rights to pursue happiness in liberty (a second unpleasant irony). From the anti-Enlightenment 18th-century Rousseau to the anti-Romantic 19th-century Marx (he was no Idealist but an opportunistic authoritarian abuser) through the decades into the 21st-century, this denial of the human psyche/spirit attachment with nature/reality is most destructive.

What a lovely synopsis is found for those who wondered what symbol the atheists might have chosen to represent Winter Solstice. Google "symbols Winter Solstice" and find the meaning behind the many symbols we already know and cherish. To share an appreciation for something universally recognized as "good" is enjoyable. Having thrived on the Romantic collection of fairy tales as a child, the pleasure in learning of ancient cultures persists.

It doesn't bother me at all to know that Pope Julius in the 4th Century AD decided to establish from the many contemporary days being celebrated within the Christian communities one single official date, Dec.25, during the universal season recognizing the victory of light over darkness, the end of death/decay and beginning of new life/growth.

Why would anyone feel threatened to know of what existed prior to a specific date? No need to take offense from the cultural expressions that existed prior to Moses' or Joshua's births, or Buddha's birth, or Jesus' birth, or Mohammed's (after). History is magnificent in and of itself. What you make of it all is up to the individual, just as holding to traditions is up to each culture.

So we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ during the Winter Solstice. His life and gospel represent the aspirations of all good people. I honor Jesus with my adoration because in Him I find my refuge, inspiration and strength. It is a matter of choice, and perhaps of need as well. I would not force my beliefs on others, nor will I allow others to deny me mine. God Bless America.

141

Technically, man started celebrating this time of year because it took a few days after the Winter Solstice to confirm that the sun was not dissappearing.  Every religion since then co-opts the existing peoples celebrations into their calender and takes over the time with their own ideological belief. 

The good thing is that it isn't until a few days after New Years that I realize that once again I couldn't wait for crappy winter weather for me to have go to work in.  Then I'm staring Valentine's Day in the face and I have to be uber romantic on someone elses schedule.  I'm really ticked at you christianists for that one.

142

Posted by: Drumwaster at December 01, 2008 10:17 PM (Ymor3)

South of the equator this time of the year is the Spring Solstice.  They have to wait 6 months.  Who's the stupid bint now?

143

Then I'm staring Valentine's Day in the face and I have to be uber romantic on someone elses schedule.  I'm really ticked at you christianists for that one.

Ahh yes. One more example of Christian oppression under the villianous reign of Pope Hallmark III.

144 Heh. If Gabe married that chick (stay with me here) her name would be Annie Laurie Gaylor-Malor.

145 Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go ritually hang a peasant girl from my Yggdrasil tree to celebrate the false apparence of movement of a giant ball of gas 93 million miles away.

146

"And now we've got "the c word" to go along with "the n word." I think I'm going to just start throwing around the phrase: "the r word," and leave it up to the filthy imaginations of everyone else as to what it might be."

WTF is the r word? Redneck? Rhubarb? Rotten? Republican? RHINO?

As in:  A rotten redneck rhubarb eating RHINO Republican?

Just don't be fucking banning cocksuckers, sound like we wouldn't have anyone posting or hobo hunting if you did.

Kemp 

147

Offensive? Maybe.

Is getting treated like the source of all evil by various and sundry goons, such that things like "atheist" or "secular humanist" are stated with the same scorn you would expect for "child molester", offensive? Yes, yes it is. Nor is it reserved for the Christmas season alone.

148 test

149

Hmm.

I'm an atheist, but I don't relate to groups of atheists any better than I did to groups of christians when I was one of them.

Just remember, there are atheists that are more or less on your side on lots of issues.  I am one of them.

 

doug

150 "Convert or step aside" sounds much better in the original Arabic.

151

Same here, doug. My main source of disappointment as an atheist is the number of people who call themselves that, but worship at the church of the almighty State (Grand High Redistributor Barack Obama, presiding) or are mysticalists of some other stripe (Gaiaism being a big one).

Trading one god for another doesn't count, guys.

152 Gamer -- No church ever raised my taxes.

153

If they really believe the winter soltice is the reason for the season in the northern hemisphere why arent they trying to move the date and change the name of the existing Federal Holiday (Christmas Dec 25th) and as someone else has already noted do these shitheads go to work on the 25th?  

What a bunch of maroons... maybe they can also spend their time trying to change the names of some U.S. cities like Los Angeles, Corpus Christi, Saint Louis, Saint Paul...

St Louis = Louis

St Paul = Paul

LA = No Angels   

Corpus Christi = ? 

154 #118 -- WP's guardian angel is the one with the calluses, the twitch and the Thousand Yard Stare...

155   non-believers can take communion

Not in a Roman Catholic, or any of the Orthodox or other Eastern Catholic churches, you can't. Or at least, you shouldn't.

There are also Lutheran churches out there, for example, mine, that believe we are partaking of the body and blood of Christ, and therefore non-believers should not take communion.

156

I hear you Gamer.  I really don't understand why the implicit assumption exists that if I am an atheist I am a marxist.  I found the election of Obama to be utterly horrifying, because of his past associations and apparent beliefs.

I am not a christian, and a lot of the social concerns that social conservatives worry about mean nothing to me. 

But that doesn't mean we don't have a lot in common, especially with the war on terror, and with socialists in control of the government.

Yes, large groups of activist atheists do things that piss people off.  But that doesn't mean, as usual, that we are all cut from the same cloth.

I don't believe in God, but I do believe in freedom and in the constitution of the US.

I couldn't give less of a damn about what you call your little holiday tree.  I really couldn't. 

157

As an atheist I have wonder what on Earth were those idiots thinking? Why can't they just deny the existance of God and let everyone else alone? I guess they need to cement their victimhood status by making ridiculous statements.

 

158 there have been all sorts of societies in this and the past century where atheism was the controlling "ism".  if christians have to explain all of the wars for the past millenia, why don't the evangelical atheists have to account for the body counts of societies that represented the full flowering of their philosophy?  I realize it's a little unfair to make them explain why they aren't responsible for the mass murders of communism but oh well.

159

Ed.  Humans suck.  Atheists suck as much as christians.  The massive abuses and failures of nominally atheist societies in the modern world seem to me, as Hitchens argues, to be partly due to the fact that humans still fall for cults of personality.  The urge to worship, and to kill for what one worships, just gets shifted from religion to the fearless leader.

This is why America has been so great.  You need to let people worship whomever the f*ck they want to but to reduce their urge to compel others to do so.  Removing religion is so UTTERLY not the point, because stopping religion does not make people stop being (to use a word ace introduced me to) douchnozzles.

The massive atrocities of atheist states in the modern world didn't in my opinion have so much to do with what the believed about God as it did the fact that there were no checks and balances in place to keep their douchenozzle nature in check.

The American system has done this brilliantly for a long time, but it is starting to break down.  Hatred of Athiests is not likely to improve things...

160 I don't agree.  Atheists have some need to present themselves as the hyper-rational flowering of human thought.  When placed into practice, the body count speaks for itself.  The things you say may be true but the atheist philosophers don't acknowledge that their philosophy is as fallible as those filthy irrational religionists.

161 fireweed: Uh, do they think it's any less a Christmas tree by calling it a "Holiday tree"? Gabriel, are you pulling my leg here? Do they really call it that?

It looks like they call it a "solstice tree":

Some Atheists host Winter Solstice parties, set up a Solstice Tree, and mimic their religious friends and neighbors by giving presents.

(I'm not going to recognize the atheist nomenclature as a proper noun.  Solstice day is not a recognized holiday for anyone except pagans and indiscriminate bacchanalian revelers.) 

As an aside, this seems like a great Christmas gift for your more liberal family members.

162 Is getting treated like the source of all evil by various and sundry goons, such that things like "atheist" or "secular humanist" are stated with the same scorn you would expect for "child molester", offensive? Yes, yes it is. Nor is it reserved for the Christmas season alone.

The "source of all evil" and "scorn" you are so concerned about is directed at the types of atheists who do not the seem to get the "freedom" part of freedom of religion.  We are all free to practice whatever beliefs or non-beliefs we see fit.  It's becomes obnoxious and offensive when others, whether they be pushy evangelical Christians, relentless and disturbing Jehovah's Witnesses or smug, self-righteous atheists, get in our faces and demand that we listen to them and endure their insulting statements, because they are the only ones who are "right."

Gamer, if you are not one of these types, then you are not the intended target of scorn and derision on display here. The true targets are the ones who insisted on a place within this display, and used that place to trash and insult the other belief systems represented therein.

163  Really, what "Holiday" is the "Holiday Tree" representing?

Posted by: Jason at December 01, 2008 10:33 PM (sV0Yw)

 

Did you just fall out of the stupid tree? And hit your head on every branch on the way down?

164 I think the contrast between love, peace, joy, redemption, and salvation.... and a hate filled message of nihilism and emptiness couldn't be a stronger advertisement for faith over idiot, radical atheism. Please, I agree, bring it on.

165 At this time of year, I am reminded of SS's plan to tell his 4-year-old that Santa was a myth, because he doesn't believe in lying to his children.

Actually I'm on board with that. In fact, it is how I was raised - and I wasn't traumatized, because nobody lied to be about a magic elf bringing gifts from the beginning. Telling your kids its wrong to lie then deliberately doing so to their face because you think it makes them happy is more than immoral, its retarded.

166 Telling your kids its wrong to lie then deliberately doing so to their face because you think it makes them happy is more than immoral, its retarded.

I don't think kids really care that much about the "lies" at that age.  It's magical and fantasitical for them.  It makes the season fun for them and for adults.  It's all a part of the season. At some point, everyone figures it out on their own, and I can't imagine anyone other than a perpetually angry or disturbed person being all that upset about the *gasp* "lie" that they were told.

But I guess you would also tell them how magic tricks are done, so as to remove all of the fun, right?  Why not?  Magic tricks are nothing but lies on a larger scale.  Someone is trying to fool you and that's just wrong, isn't it?

167 Christopher Taylor: Telling your kids its wrong to lie then deliberately doing so to their face because you think it makes them happy is more than immoral, its retarded.

"Think" it makes them happy?  I don't know about you, but in my life, I've not known a single child that has found anything other than happiness in the contemplation of Santa Claus and what he is supposed to do and represent. 

My counter to your statement: How does stifling a child's imagination and participation in a widespread cultural phenomenon that engenders the best part of the human spirit (i.e., selfless giving and reward for positive behavior) for the sake of pedantic adherence to an unattainable ideal any less retarded than your portrayal of participation in the Santa story?

168 I love this!

Have you noticed that the Christians here have conveniently and immediately forgotten all about "bless those who curse you" and "love your enemies"?  (Those are Jesus' mandates, by the way.  It is sin, like cock-sucking and baby-rape, to disobey them!)  Christians CURSE and HATE atheists and are not ashamed to brazenly show it!  Many shall try, but few shall enter the kingdom of heaven -- am I wrong, you Christo-bitches?

If anything, atheists need to me more aggressive in their public mockery of Christian stupidity.  It gets under Christians' skin, and I love that.

Did Baalam's donkey really talk?  Really?  <snicker>

169 It's becomes obnoxious and offensive when others, whether they be pushy evangelical Christians, relentless and disturbing Jehovah's Witnesses or smug, self-righteous atheists, get in our faces and demand that we listen to them and endure their insulting statements, because they are the only ones who are "right."

You don't have the right to not be offended.  Everyone has the right to be smug and self-righteous.  Everyone has the right to mercilessly mock the shit out of your religion regardless of whether or not it hurts your tender feelings.  Christians are endlessly smug and self-righteous and mercilessly mock their enemies, and their enemies seem to handle it okay.  You better grow a thicker skin, you Christo-pussy, because it's going to get worse, not better, for you.  I believe it's called, "Turnabout is fair play".

That which "gets in your face" (also known as "harassment") is an issue for the courts to decide.

170

but, SK, most folks think it is the atheists who look stupid.  as to getting under Christians' skin, atheists seem to be the ones obsessed about godtalk (read above comments).  that seems more consistent with those wicked goddists getting inside the atheists' heads.  by the way, do you accept responsibility for the tens (hundreds?) of millions killed by your fellow atheists in the last century.  it would seem if modern christians are responsible for the misdeeds of their co-religionists in the past, you get the bill for your fellows.

171 SuprKufr,

Thank you for proving my point, douchebag.  Your lack of reading comprehension is only exceeded by your overwhelming ignorance.  Best of luck with that.

172 Atheism may be the hyper-rational flowering of human thought.  Even if so, that does not stop tyrants from hijacking the masses and making use of the urge to worship.  Hitchen's tries to make this argument in his book that tries to say that religion poisons everything.  I personally think he massively overstates the case, and its weakness shows up in the discussion of Satlinism, etc.  It isn't just religion, it is the urge to worship.  That urge is iradicable in the human animal in my opinion.  Just look at the idiocy heaped on the incredible nobody, Barack Obama.  Religious cultures have committed great crimes against humanity.  Cultures that considered themselves essentially non religious have as well.

173

RICHARD DAWKIN a arrogant atheists and evolutionists possibly as dumb as he looks

174 Wiserbud:

Um, I never said I'd tell my 4 year old that Santa was a myth.  I have a 4 year old and he very much accepts that Santa is coming.  He is also looking forward to his first visit by the Tooth Fairy and the next visit from the Easter Bunny.

I said that I would not take steps to fool a 7 or 8 year old into being the last sucker in his class to still believe in Santa. 

I, like my own parents, will never admit to my kids that Santa is not real.  I will simply start doing a less and less convincing job at supporting the argument.  Once they figure it out though, I am not doing them any favors by rewarding their logical deduction with sincere lies. 

I don't want to tell my kids there is no Santa.  I want them to figure it out on their own.  Just like I hope they do with Jesus.

Frankly, the only people who really should and do have a real problem with Santa Claus are honest to goodness Christians.  After all, your children violate the first commandment by believing in an omnipotent (he sees you when you're sleeping...) and immortal being (who is not Jesus or God) who will reward them with gifts if they behave properly.  That is what you Christians call a sin. 

Me, I think he's as harmless as the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.  Fun for little kids.  Pathetic for older kids.  Does anyone disagree with that?

Parents can disagree with where that transition from fun to pathetic occurs, (and it invariably occurs at different times for the different kids in your family as I am assuming once my older guy figures it out, the younger dude is probably gonna find out too) but certainly, once they are in the first grade, all bets are off.

Bart-

Umm, Christmas (meaning most of what we DO to celebrate the secular holiday of Christmas) WAS stolen from Pagans:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

Isn't that obvious?  I mean, it isn't like decorating evergreen trees, eating ham, and hanging boughs of holly appears anywhere in the bible, right?

175 ed:

There is no such thing as a "fellow athiest."

Sam Harris correctly points out the absurdity of the very notion of an "atheist."

Why is there a word for people who don't believe in a god?  We don't have a word for all those of us who don't believe in alchemy.  Or in astrology.  Or in Big Foot.  Would you think that all persons who don't believe in UFOs are a group that has anything to bind them together? 

The answer is no.  No there isn't.  Atheism is not an ideology.  It is merely a term for any variety of person who doesn't believe in a god. 

176 I don't think kids really care that much about the "lies" at that age. That's irrelevant - although they know and care when you lie to them more than you seem to think. You're making your comments about lies and honesty a joke, deliberately.

"Think" it makes them happy? I don't know about you, but in my life, I've not known a single child that has found anything other than happiness in the contemplation of Santa Claus and what he is supposed to do and represent.

They like the gifts and the fantasy you tell them, but that's not really the point. Telling lies to make people happy is what we teach kids not to do.... except in this case, when we do it with full knowledge it is an absolute, bald faced LIE. It's crappy parenting.

177 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 02, 2008 08:53 PM (0+Ggj)

You didn't answer the second half of my post, which was the real question.

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