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Pakistan Attack Round-Up

Pakistan attack? So it is claimed (Times of London header):

THE Indian authorities yesterday claimed to have proof that the Mumbai terrorists were receiving instructions from Pakistan and discussing tactics with their handlers during the three days of attacks in which they killed at least 195 people.

The claims threaten further to embitter relations between the two nuclear powers. Tensions have been high since confirmation that the only captured gunman was a 21-year-old Pakistani.

It has also emerged that India had been warned that terrorists were planning an attack in Mumbai.

As war becomes more likely, the ISI, which likely trained these terrorists, actually becomes more powerful, not less. Because in a war, Pakistan would no doubt want to coordinate even more terrorist attacks in India, and the ISI has all of them on speed-dial. The Pakistan government could not afford to dismantle the ISI as war looms, even if they were inclined to. (And they seem not so inclined.)

Thus the ISI profits from its terror-sponsoring and murder.

The ISI can only be stopped by some kind of serious threat of war with the ultimatum that the dismemberment of the ISI is the price of peace, or a truly painful, humiliating, and disastrous war for Pakistan. And there is a limit to how much a country can defeat a nuclear-armed country -- Pakistan would presumably not use nukes if their were some small scale retaliation. But a determined war effort that defeated their army and invited invasion presumably would put the nuke option on the table.

I don't believe the current Indian government has the mettle for either. The train bombing from a year ago killed 200 and there was no war.

But the less-pacifistic Hindu National Party is already running ads castigating the ruling Congress Party for their fecklessness.

Posted by: Ace at 03:06 PM



Comments

1 Well, once Obama launches the great overland invasion of Pockeestan this will all be taken care of.

In fact, I understand Gleen Greewald and his army of cabana boys and sock puppets are running down to the recruiting station so they will be ready to when the order is given.

Posted by: DrewM. at December 01, 2008 03:08 PM (hlYel)

2 I doubt India has the patience of Israel, and it has Teh Bomb. I would worry a bit more about this, than Ahmad-in-a-jar and his crazy Iranian shit.

Posted by: Roy at December 01, 2008 03:10 PM (cB77O)

3 If the BJP were still in power, the nukes would already be going off. 

It'll be a matters of days, not weeks, before a nationally-prominent Indian politician attributes most if not all of India's security problems to the very EXISTENCE of Pakistan, and calls for a forcible reunification of the subcontinent as the solution.

Posted by: Dave J at December 01, 2008 03:13 PM (qsGH+)

4

These guys have been in a shoving match for a couple of decades now, but I don't think they're playing around this time. I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate that it could go nuclear very easily, either.

The bottom line is that the world regards the US as a power vacuum right now, and they're moving to fill the void. Not good.

tmi3rd

Posted by: tmi3rd at December 01, 2008 03:14 PM (X9MTa)

5 Obama is going to learn really quickly why Bush focused on Iraq after bin Laden ran away to Pakistan.

Posted by: liontooth at December 01, 2008 03:17 PM (n3pxb)

6 tmi3rd

Abso-fucking-lutely!


This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.


K

Posted by: Kestrel♠ at December 01, 2008 03:19 PM (IiExB)

7 Iran with nuclear weapons, too? Maybe Obama can make Iran swoon and cry by talking to them. Things look a little messy, don't they?

Posted by: mikeyslaw at December 01, 2008 03:20 PM (QMGr1)

8 >>>It'll be a matters of days, not weeks, before a nationally-prominent Indian politician attributes most if not all of India's security problems to the very EXISTENCE of Pakistan, and calls for a forcible reunification of the subcontinent as the solution.

India already has 150 Muslims living it its borders.  Pakistan would add another 130 million (I think).

I don't mean to be *racist*, but I don't think the solution to terrorism is adding more Muslims to one's population.

A good (fantasy) solution, I think, would be the partitioning of Pakistan into smaller states, to the extent possible isolating the trouble-making areas from the less barbaric ones.

Just so when you go to war you're 1) going to war with a smaller state and 2) killing the people who won't stop killing until they get the idea that they ought to stop.

Posted by: ace at December 01, 2008 03:23 PM (8T2pi)

9 I just had this thought....

Who woulda thunk that the election of a weak US President would have set off middle east tinder box.

LOL!

K

Posted by: Kestrel♠ at December 01, 2008 03:24 PM (IiExB)

10 Where's Tushar when we need him? He could be filling in the blanks for those of us who don't understand the region. Hell, I'm pretty sure the Commanches were involved. But it may have been Navajos. Or possibly Apaches.  I just don't know as much as I should about that part of the world.

Posted by: pendejo grande at December 01, 2008 03:25 PM (Eb4hF)

11

"Mistakes have been made, others must be blamed"

Sounds like the keystone cops are looking for someone else to explain why it took NINE hours for the "Black Cats" to fly from New Delhi and get to the scene. 

Kemp

Posted by: Kempermanx at December 01, 2008 03:27 PM (qvT/A)

12 "I don't mean to be *racist*, but I don't think the solution to terrorism is adding more Muslims to one's population."

I didn't say it was a rational solution or one I'd favor: I said I expected it to be proposed as part of this all escalating completely out of control, which all signs point towards happening.

Posted by: Dave J at December 01, 2008 03:28 PM (qsGH+)

13

Why everyone “knows” that unicorn farts trump nukes all to hell. We have nothing to worry about.

Posted by: Vic at December 01, 2008 03:32 PM (Qd7GC)

14 Dave J, it's a lot easier to occupy unoccupied land.

K

Posted by: Kestrel♠ at December 01, 2008 03:32 PM (IiExB)

15 Unoccupied that is.


Posted by: Kestrel♠ at December 01, 2008 03:33 PM (IiExB)

16 There is really only one solution for India. Go into Pakistan and clean house. Sooner or later the ISI is going to control Pakistan, and then they will go nuclear. One way to do it:

1. Smuggle nukes into Pakistan and do a decapitation of the leadership.

2. Follow-up with air strikes and paras into the nuclear facilities.

Posted by: Mike H at December 01, 2008 03:35 PM (LdYLm)

17 The U.S. should cozy up to both sides and tell each of them that we have their backs.  Then, we could just kick back and watch the fun.

Posted by: Steve L. at December 01, 2008 03:36 PM (Gkhxf)

18 War between India and Pakistan has been a nightmare of mine for years.  I can see this going nuclear and fast.  I think ace's idea of partitioning is an excellent one which is why it'll never be tried or accepted. 

It's the Joker problem - there's really no way to win against those who only want to see the world burn other than to kill them until there's none left.  And isn't that a lovely solution?

Posted by: alexthechick at December 01, 2008 03:37 PM (SHHaV)

19 A good (fantasy) solution, I think, would be the partitioning of Pakistan into smaller states, to the extent possible isolating the trouble-making areas from the less barbaric ones. Just so when you go to war you're 1) going to war with a smaller state and 2) killing the people who won't stop killing until they get the idea that they ought to stop.

If Bushitler-McChimple-Helliburton INC. was really devious, they make sure those Mumbai terrorists had 'Waziristan' written all over them. Oh, yeah, and this would have happened 3 or 4 years ago.

Posted by: liontooth at December 01, 2008 03:42 PM (n3pxb)

20

Now would be a splendid time to just quadruple the Missile Defense budget.  Get that done.  Give it to any country we give a rip about.  Don't worry, Biden and Clinton are on the case.  Hahahahahah... we're fucked.

By the way, am I the only one a bit worried about the deployment of 20,000 troops... inside America?  The slope is getting mighty fucking slippery.

Posted by: SalvucciFumbles at December 01, 2008 03:54 PM (mAjGv)

21

Sounds like the keystone cops are looking for someone else to explain why it took NINE hours for the "Black Cats" to fly from New Delhi and get to the scene.

 

Maybe they couldn't find the keys to the helicopter and had to car pool. 

Posted by: Late at December 01, 2008 03:57 PM (W0B71)

22 To paraphrase something I heard a couple years ago, it's hilarious that we could all go up in smoke because of the vegetarians and the teetotalers. In a "ha ha, we've all got cancer" kind of way.

Posted by: Joanna at December 01, 2008 03:58 PM (Db2kZ)

23 Something about this attack doesn't ring true for me.  Usually terrorists have some stated goal... a set of policies they want implemented or stopped, or international attention to their cause.  Do we even know who was claiming credit for this one?

It seems designed to start a war.  I know there's been a lot of bad blood between India and Pakistan, but the ISI guys are chess players, not crazies.  They wouldn't do something like this unless they thought it would be productive, either for the ISI or for Pakistan.  I just don't see nuclear war with India as something they would want.

Posted by: Ace's liver at December 01, 2008 04:00 PM (XIXhw)

24

Well, Alex, there's a slightly less extreme almost-solution-- kill the leaders, and keep killing them until no one wants to step up.  If the Joker's dead, his followers/lackeys may be a bit less enthusiastic-- assuming the organization stays intact and doesn't degenerate into factions.  (Which may or may not be a bigger mess, come to think of it.  Anyway.)

I mean, nothing can stop lone psychos.  (Which reminds me-- I haven't played Grand Theft Auto in far too long.)  But at least we can try to stop the larger, deadlier cells and groups from forming.

See also Iraq, Flypaper Theory of.

Posted by: Some Guy at December 01, 2008 04:00 PM (lPxkl)

25 I've got a great idea!  Let's just cut bot India and Pakistan a chekc for $200million each, no strings attached!

That way they'll know we don't hate them and they'll leave us alone!

And you think I got to be Vice-President elect because I'm an idiot?   HAH!!!!

Posted by: Slow Joe, OFfice of teh Vice-President Elect at December 01, 2008 04:04 PM (wWwJR)

26

Ace's liver (#23)speaks the truth.  Something is fishy in Denmark and it's not the scandi's dinner.

I think there must be embedded terrorist that checked in the the hotels as guests and were "rescued" by the keystone cops and let go and are still out there.

My bet?

The NSA knows a lot more about this than we will every hear about.  FBI going over there leads me to think the Keystone boys have not a clue.

Kemp

Posted by: kempermanx at December 01, 2008 04:16 PM (2+9Yx)

27

But, they can fix a computer at 3 AM if you can understand WTF they are saying.

Kemp

Posted by: kempermanx at December 01, 2008 04:17 PM (2+9Yx)

28 Kemp

I had read that the BG's used incendiary devices in the Taj hotel.  Most likely propane tanks with a grenade taped to them.  Something tells me that these guys did not truck a dozen or so 20 lb propane tanks by hand to the hotels.

K

Posted by: Kestrel♠ at December 01, 2008 04:26 PM (IiExB)

29 @ Kemp, Kestrel: Did they have inside help? Almost certainly. Does the gov't know more than it's letting on? I'd bet my savings on it. But is it all a conspiracy? I think that's giving them too much credit. Maybe just a hair too much, but still too much. The articles about the tortured hostages give lie to that theory, IMO.

Posted by: Joanna at December 01, 2008 04:46 PM (Db2kZ)

30 don't be so hysterical folks. india and pakistan have been feuding for a long time and will continue to do so for a long time. there is no evidence to suggest a war will happen. its also cute how some posters have miraculously found ways to blame obama already.

"Who woulda thunk that the election of a weak US President would have set off middle east tinder box."

wow, little fast on the draw. obama isn't even president yet but he's already a weak one to you. politics must be easy for ideologues. us strong, you weak! looks like the terrorists were planning for many months by the way. not just since the election. oh well. lookin like obama is going to be a pretty good prez so far. or are you still holed up in your bunker with the guns you think he is going to take away, waiting for the rapture?

"5 Obama is going to learn really quickly why Bush focused on Iraq after bin Laden ran away to Pakistan."

still think bush is a genius ey? yeah everything went according to plan huh. thats pretty funny.

no! it was a super duper secret genius plan!


Posted by: max at December 01, 2008 04:47 PM (ZXOuD)

31 lookin like obama is going to be a pretty good prez so far.

Alright, pal. That's enough of that. 

Up against the wall.  NOW!

Posted by: Citizen's Irony Patrol at December 01, 2008 04:52 PM (IHbof)

32 @ max:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *gasp* hahahahahahahahahaha!

Posted by: Joanna at December 01, 2008 05:01 PM (Db2kZ)

33 I said,  "going to be", so far since his appointments and public speaking have been interesting and well recieved, you silly.  I personally hope the prez does a good job no matter what group he belongs to.  he sounds responsible and in control, we'll all have to see where it goes....

Posted by: max at December 01, 2008 05:06 PM (ZXOuD)

34 Dismembering the ISI sounds worthy, but the fact is they're a ruthless covert organization which knows where the bodies are buried and where the government's kids go to school. 

Posted by: Secundus at December 01, 2008 05:06 PM (1Caui)

35 Joanna : "it's hilarious that we could all go up in smoke because of the vegetarians and the teetotalers."

They don't have enough nukes to destroy earth. BTW are those leftists with the atomic doomsday clock going to put it closer to midnight since a nuke war is more likely? No, cos the US can't be blamed.

max: "5 Obama is going to learn really quickly why Bush focused on Iraq after bin Laden ran away to Pakistan."
"still think bush is a genius ey? yeah everything went according to plan huh. thats pretty funny. "

Since Bush didn't run away from Iraq like Obama wanted to, and Iraq has been stabilized, he's obviously more of a genius than Obama. Or do you actually believe that unstable Pakistan and it's issues with India, nuclear seeking Iran, AND Saddam Hussein's machinations would be a good combination to deal with in 2008?

BTW, Now that he's been elected, why isn't Obama talking about:
- How he's going to get bin Laden?
- IMMEDIATELY CLOSING Gitmo,
- All combat troops out of Iraq by May 2010 (aka 16 months).

Posted by: liontooth at December 01, 2008 05:14 PM (n3pxb)

36 There won't be any nuclear escalation just like there wasn't last time. They'll huff and puff and back down at the last minute.

This is SOP, I guess, for that part of the world - every day is Cuban Missile Crisis Day!

India has too much to lose in a nuke exchange. It's economy is just starting to get off the ground. If they thought they could make an effective first strike, eh, it's possible. But then they have a massive refugee problem from the north and no one wants that.

Pakistan, just another muslim shithole. The typical chestbeating and gorilla aggression display. Conventional or nuke either way they get their asses kicked. And they know it. ISI is a powerful force only if they don't go too far. Otherwise they get wiped out.

Nothing will happen.

Posted by: rinseandspit at December 01, 2008 05:19 PM (ao5cQ)

37 Hey Max @ 30:

 I was just wonderin'. Just what do you think President Bush's "super duper secret genius plan" has to do with the cadre of Pakistani origin (if not ISI trained) terrorists who executed a couple hundred human biengs in Mumbai over India's incarceration of mujaheddin?  Mujaheddin who were imprisoned for murdering Indians with the express goal of bringing Kashmir into their beloved caliphate.

This hysterical foaming at the mouth redneck warmongering racist Christianist moron wants to know.

Posted by: monkeyfan at December 01, 2008 05:36 PM (cEE8N)

38 Rinse'nspit, pretty smart.  Max, not so much.

Exactly what do you think Obama "has control of", Max?  His bowels?  Cuz everything else he's done is just closing deals and makin' speeches.  Whoop. Te. Doo.    His picks are "well received"? well, duh, he could pick Mickey Mouse and Goofy,(after all, Mickey and Goof voted for him) and the MSM would say what a wonderful decision.  Hillary's a joke, Holder's busy burying files about pardons, Emanual is a partisan hack..and on goes the "change". 

"obama isn't even president yet but he's already a weak one to you."

Um, yea, that's what we meant for 2 years when we said "he'll be a weak president".  You know what weak means, right?  Ask Joe Biden, he explained it perfectly during the debates and again when he said "he will be tested".  Now we will also have a Secretary of State that is even weaker - just ask Obama, who spelled it out quite clearly, about how little foreign experience Hillary has. 

Posted by: Ann at December 01, 2008 05:39 PM (c3H+i)

39

re the embedded terrorist idea.

one news story i read claimed that an assistant chef was one of the perps at the Taj.

he'd been at the place for a year, long enough to stash a whole heap of stuff.

Posted by: name at December 01, 2008 05:39 PM (Dmax1)

40 hey liontooth,

this all happened today, mon 1 2008 in iraq, rush just forgot to tell you.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/212/story/56753.html

Three people were killed and 10 others were injured including security guards by a bomb that was planted in Sleikh neighborhood in east Baghdad near the house of General Mudhhir al Mawla, an adviser to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki. Al Mawla was seriously injured and his driver was among the killed people. The incident took place around 9 a.m.

- 15 people, including policemen, were killed and 45 others were wounded when two explosions took place near the gate of the police academy on Palestine Street in east Baghdad on Monday morning. The first explosion was done by a suicide bomber wearing an explosive vest followed by an explosion of a parked car bomb.

- Four people (2 policemen and 2 civilians) were wounded by a bomb in Palestine Street in east Baghdad around 8 p.m.

Nineveh

- Seven civilians (6 women and 1 child) were injured by two adhesive bombs which were stuck to the main gate of two houses in al Yarmouk neighborhood in west Mosul city on Sunday evening.

- Gunmen killed two women in al Yarmouk neighborhood in west Mosul city on Monday morning.

- 16 Iraqis were killed, most of them policemen, and 37 others were injured when a suicide car bomber attacked a joint convoy of Iraqi police and US military in New Mosul area in west Mosul city around 1 p.m.

- Gunmen killed two school teachers in two separated in south Mosul on Monday afternoon.

- Gunmen kidnapped a doctor in al Sarij Khana area in downtown Mosul city on Monday afternoon.

Kirkuk

- Police found 12 unidentified bodies in south Kirkuk.

wow, what an oasis of stability. and thats with thousands of troops there. I guess we should stay forever till iraq is totally safe and transformed. since the country was stable beforehand, the sorta-stability you are so proud of doesn't seem very fulfilling to me. do you mean the point of going to iraq was to destabilize it, and then stabilize it again? yeah, that makes lots of sense.

Posted by: max at December 01, 2008 05:40 PM (ZXOuD)

41 hi monkey fan,

your question is unintelligible. my post was a response to another, earlier post, which seemed to suggest that Bush was really wise to go to iraq and let pakistan do whatever it wanted. i think that's silly. and misguided. elements in pakistan are much more dangerous than any group operating in iraq ever was. thanks for playing though.

Posted by: max at December 01, 2008 05:45 PM (ZXOuD)

42 Be a shame if a few predators got lost and decided to loose their loads at ISI HQ, huh?

Stupid robots.

Posted by: mojo at December 01, 2008 05:50 PM (g1cNf)

43 do you mean the point of going to iraq was to destabilize it, and then stabilize it again?

Yeah, doesn't everyone remember the good old days, when Iraq was nice and stable and the only murders in Iraq were caused by the leaders of the country?

Good times. Good times.

Posted by: wiserbud at December 01, 2008 05:53 PM (EW49d)

44

General elections are due in a couple of months in India. I will make a prediction: BJP (the nationalist right-of-center party) will run on a platform of being tough on national security and will win the election. The current Congress led government is perceived as soft on terror. The government just shifted the Harvard edcuated finance minister P. Chidambaram to head the Home Ministry (the ministry in charge of internal secueiry) in an urgent effort to change this perception. Chidambaram is a very smart, efficient, and competant task master but even he will not be able to turn this around in two months. Some good things will happen on the security front since the Government is under a lot of political pressure. But, the perception is it is too little too late.

The BJP is also a free-market party that is very friendly to the U.S. and Israel. They have some very competant people in their party but also have a base of Hindu religious leaders (not dissimilar to our Republican party). In the past, they have been good at keeping the religious leaders under control while governing effectively because of the moderations required by coalition-government politics. With BJP, there will be a continuity of economic reforms with also a tougher national security policy. The muslim minority in India doesn't trust BJP and the terrorists in Pakistan should worry a bit more with BJP in power. The people of India, given their current anger and the terrorist attack, are likely to switch to BJP. 

Posted by: truth_teller at December 01, 2008 06:07 PM (2OWVj)

45 hi wiserbud,

saddam was a tyrant, but his boot wasn't in peoples face 24/7. fact is, iraq was a stable country. ask iraqis what they thought was more stable and they will say saddam's iraq. no love for saddam, but his country was stable, thats just the truth. 4 million people fled or were displaced by the occupation.  but what do you care about the lives of average families having to flee their homes anyway? you are a compassionless reich-winger! revel in your love of destruction and war!

its just another "muslim shithole" right? i see no one saw fit to criticize that line from an earlier post (#36), so you all must agree right? oh i know, you are all choked up about the poor people in iraq.



Posted by: max at December 01, 2008 06:12 PM (ZXOuD)

46

As Ace mentioned, there are millions of Moslems in India.  A likely goal of Wednesday's attack is to foment instability in India, possibly with an eye to winning concessions of territory, tribute, or something else.

Posted by: DenverGregg at December 01, 2008 06:17 PM (5tPx9)

47 Really? Much more dangerous than Saddam and the Jew-hating terrorist Pals that he used to finance, train, and harbor? Those terrorist Pals who revolutionized modern 'international' terror craft and exported it across the world?

Or maybe you mean Saddam's [former] pals who are affiliated with Al Qaida (the base) and who are, as you cited, still busily maiming and murdering men women and children in Iraq to the best of their greatly diminished ability? Hell even AQ openly acknowledges Iraq to be the central front in their war against western decadence.

Don't look now but you may have noticed that the shitstains aren't doing their shit staining in the Waldorf or Maxims?

There's a pattern there but for whatever reason you apparently can't bear to see it. No skin off my back.

Anyway, so what's your brilliant plan for Pakistan?
How would you not "let pakistan do whatever it wanted"...An overland invasion to bag Bin Laden and crush the ISI perhaps?

Posted by: monkeyfan at December 01, 2008 06:21 PM (cEE8N)

48 Mumbai massacre story unfolds in terrorist’s interrogation

 

Praveen Swami (from The Hindu newspaper in Chennai)

http://tinyurl.com/6pzpo5

 

Posted by: truth_teller at December 01, 2008 06:25 PM (2OWVj)

49

An excerpt:

"Iman has told interrogators that right through the fighting, the Lashkar headquarters remained in touch with the group, calling their phones through a voice-over-internet service. In all likelihood, Indian investigators were able to intercept these calls, which would then form part of a compelling body of evidence to corroborate Iman’s account. In addition, Mumbai police sources said, investigators have succeeded in reconstructing the group’s journey through the Garmin GPS set that has been seized."

 

Posted by: truth_teller at December 01, 2008 06:32 PM (2OWVj)

50 From the article truth_teller pointed out.

Iman and the other terrorists were set to leave for Mumbai on September 27.

For reasons he claims to be unaware of, they were ordered to hold back. Late on November 22, Lakhvi finally gave the team a heads-up. At 4:15 a.m. on November 23, Iman and Ismail rowed out to sea along with four other groups


Hmmm....... whatever could have caused them to wait 2 months?


K

Posted by: Kestrel♠ at December 01, 2008 06:38 PM (IiExB)

51
The real problem is too keep the PRC out of it once the fighting starts. Would China be badly harmed by Pakistan losing a conventional war with India? or would India be too strengthened by victory?

As for a third country invasion of Pakistan or any other islamo-fascist sponsor state- kingdom or democracy---- sure, good luck, and I hope the US sends them all the photos and cyber help they need.

Posted by: Potosi Joel at December 01, 2008 06:45 PM (TPRbZ)

52 hey monkeyfan,

you forgot to mention that saddam was behind the grassy knoll.

Posted by: max at December 01, 2008 06:59 PM (ZXOuD)

53

Re my #26 post!

I am a rocket scientist!

http://tinyurl.com/68ljju

Kemp

Posted by: kempermanx at December 01, 2008 07:20 PM (2+9Yx)

54 Ha! Brilliant plan max.

Posted by: monkeyfan at December 01, 2008 07:26 PM (cEE8N)

55

Max: Do you know that we never ended the war with Iraq in 1991? There was a conditional cease-fire, but never an official end to hostilities. Saddam continued to violate the terms of the cease-fire throughout the 90s, and no effective action was taken to enforce those terms.

We had a prior with Hussein. Given the nature of things after 9/11, he could not be left in power. If he had been, and helped regional or international terrorists get hold of biological or chemical agents, it would've been on Bush's hands. And you would have been here right now saying that Bush knew there was trouble but did nothing because he was too obsessed with a figurehead like bin Laden.

No, don't bother to contradict me. I know people like you and I know how you think. You're a dumbass. Now lick my scrotum, bitch.

Posted by: The Band at December 01, 2008 08:10 PM (QtRBc)

56 saddam was a tyrant, but his boot wasn't in peoples face 24/7. fact is, iraq was a stable country. ask iraqis what they thought was more stable and they will say saddam's iraq. no love for saddam, but his country was stable, thats just the truth.

Well yeah, it was stable if you were Sunni. For the Shi'ites, not so much.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 01, 2008 08:32 PM (bMJ2V)

57 fact is, iraq was a stable country.

Another troll, another lack of understanding of what a "fact" is.  I'll bet max fucks up the use of "literally" too.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 01, 2008 08:36 PM (QyCAU)

58 <i> oh i know, you are all choked up about the poor people in iraq.</i>

Well, one of us is, obviously.  And I sincerely doubt it's you.  I mean, in your fucked up world, it's okay to allow a tyrant  to torture, rape and kill his own people, as long as he provides "stability."  And, be honest, max, they're only "those kind of people" anyway, right?  Who cares if hundreds of thousands of them are murdered by their own government, right?

You seriously disgust me. 

I feel real bad for the people who were smart enough to leave while the war was being fought in their country.  But at least they a) were able to leave and b) can now return to a more peaceful, more safe, and more free country than they had or could possibly have hoped for previously.  Which should reduce, although may never eliminate, their desire to cause more problems in the area.

Which, by the way,was the original plan.  And what do you know?  It's actually working!  We have another ally in the Middle East that does not officially support and finance terror!

 

Posted by: Citizen's Irony Patrol at December 01, 2008 08:53 PM (EW49d)

59 damn sockpuppet

Posted by: wiserbud at December 01, 2008 08:53 PM (EW49d)

60 yeeeeeaaahhhh! its still going. one at a time you knuckle draggers!

if you can't tell the difference between iraq before and after then I can do nothing for you. above I posted a list of what happened just today. that happens pretty much every day. the "MSM" which you all think is so librul covered basically none of it. watching the news you can hardly tell we are warring in two countries, pro or con. any fool can see that. even shiites weren't fleeing for their lives the way they have been for the last several years.

understanding this is foreign policy 101 and if you think conservative leaders don't curse about this behind closed doors while letting you guys endlessly chant about how great it is in iraq and how wise bush was to do this, then you are truly pawns in a game you don't understand. from some of the writing here, I can tell that some of you have half a brain.
probably most of you guys just listen to too much rush. try reading books about iraq instead.

Posted by: max at December 01, 2008 08:58 PM (/48My)

61 another taker!

#58: you are truly disturbed sir! but this time you have caught me red-handed!

indeed, I am a great supporter of rape, murder, and the slaughter of thousands. possibly I am racist.

the evidence for this is that I think the Iraq war was a mistake.

Posted by: max at December 01, 2008 09:05 PM (/48My)

62 foreign policy 101

Sounds just about how far you got before attempting to provide us with your in-depth "analysis."

Keep bringing the stupid though, max.  We haven't had anyone try to defend Saddam and his "stable Iraq" here in a while.  It's almost nostalgic.

Posted by: wiserbud at December 01, 2008 09:16 PM (EW49d)

63 Hey, Max: you still haven't answered my question, dumbass. Do you know about the terms of the 1991 cease-fire and the implications after 9/11? I have a feeling I won't be hearing back from you. Hurry up: this nut-sack won't lick itself.

Posted by: The Band at December 01, 2008 09:34 PM (QtRBc)

64 above I posted a list of what happened just today. that happens pretty much every day.

Thanks for that link, max (and learn to use capitals for something other than a personal pronoun, you illiterate wank) because if you do some digging around there you find out that it doesn't happen "pretty much every day".  In fact it seems to be related to the upcoming elections.  So thanks for providing the ability to discover that you're just another lying troll.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 01, 2008 09:37 PM (QyCAU)

65 max:". since the country was stable beforehand,"

max: "if you can't tell the difference between iraq before and after then I can do nothing for you. above I posted a list of what happened just today. that happens pretty much every day."

Stable = murdering political opponents and letting the children die. I get it!

400,000 bodies found in Saddam's mass graves.
Unicef
"If the substantial reduction in child mortality throughout Iraq during the 1980s had continued through the 1990s, there would have been half a million fewer deaths of children under-five in the country as a whole during the eight year period 1991 to 1998. "

max:"earlier post, which seemed to suggest that Bush was really wise to go to iraq and let pakistan do whatever it wanted."

Since Iraq was a beacon of stability, why was Bill Clinton bombing them?

Posted by: liontooth at December 01, 2008 09:59 PM (n3pxb)

66 indeed, I am a great supporter of rape, murder, and the slaughter of thousands. possibly I am racist.

the evidence for this is that I think the Iraq war was a mistake.

You are all for allowing 100s of thousands of people be murdered by their own leaders, as long as the country is, by your bizarre definition, "stable."  (I wonder if Saddam's torture victims or the women who were taken to Uday's rape rooms thought to themselves, as the torture began, "well, as long as the country is stable....") 

I, on the other hand, think that the effort to take down Saddam's regime, freeing millions of people from the threat of rape, torture and murder from their own leaders, as well as reducing the threats that all of the people of the entire region faced, as well as the elimination of the on-going attacks against our country, was well worth it.

And somehow I'm the racist?

You really are a loon, aren't you?


Posted by: wiserbud at December 01, 2008 10:35 PM (EW49d)

67 rinseandspit at December 01, 2008 05:19 PM

You're right. It's soooo boring, dude.

Posted by: Fortunata at December 01, 2008 11:28 PM (P1A5m)

68 Interesting post brah. Do you mind if I leave a few comments here as part of the atonement?

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Posted by: replica watches at February 05, 2010 12:02 PM (TUJDt)






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