1 according to the owner of my local gun store he said the stats were much higher than they have ever been before after any election.
 my husband is still waiting for his new pistol and i bought the last pump action shot gun they had. those they just can't keep in stock and they have never seen anything like it.

2 I believe that with the specter of an O-bot AG such as Holder, the possibility of 2 lefty SCOTUS Critters (at least) being appointed, a damn near filibuster proof Senate, and the general belief that the Kos Kidz and Ayers types will be running the show, why take chances?

3 Gabe:

I think many people were caught off guard by the vigor Clinton pushed the AWB (I know I was), and are unwilling to get caught off guard twice.

4 Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?

No, because there's a chunk of the court that has shown themselves to be unserious.

There is not a majority of the court that recognizes "Hey, one of the main methods of suppressing peasant revolts was to harshly restrict their access to arms." Nor do they argue about how racist the gun control laws we have are.

5 "Did people buy guns like crazy right after Clinton was elected? Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?"

No and No. But those questions were rhetorical, weren't they?

Clinton was from Arkansas, and in umpteen years as governor, he made no moves to restrict 2nd amendment rights. In Obama's less-than-a-decade in the Illinois senate, he made both comments and moves that are not especially reassuring to gun owners.

And the Supreme Court is less than a dead Kennedy away, now, from gun-grabba-palooza.

6 Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?

Not at all, Gabriel. Not. At. All. Not when Supreme Court decisions can be overturned by a new suit brought before a different court.

Not when a majority Republican Congress and a Republican President can throw the 1st Amendment out on its ear (Campaign Finance Reform) and have the Supreme Court back them up.

7 My question:  What's the point of getting a gun if they can just take it away from you?

For example, this sobering video from the U.K., which I can't seem to copy-paste at the moment (sometimes my computer does that) but I will copy it by hand instead:

http://youtube. com/watch?v=4eyFHYQLzIE

- which I  put an extra space into (before the com), since I don't know how to do that tiny url thing.

8 Buy now, Gabiel, you'll be grandfathered in.

9 The mix is interesting, too. Lots of evil black rifles (EBRs) are being sold. People with "normal" guns are snapping up the EBRs because they figure they might not be able to in the future. I've heard Bushmaster is backordered 60K rifle barrels. It will take them months to work through that.

10 Which Kennedy, Anthony or Teddy (or Bobby, Jr.)?

I've designed the new family crest around the current mini-arsenal:  Paraordnance .45, Desert Eagle .357, my trusty M-9, and the Mini-14. 

11 Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?
____________________________
Not really. I don't think Obama gives a shit about the Constitution or the Supreme Court.

Giving up their arms is a mistake a free people only get to make once. Better to be safe then sorry.

12 I am teaching my son to clean his new pistol. We got together earlier this evening, so this post is timely!
On Saturday we will stock new pantry with staples and food. I am worried.. anyone else?
I missed the Boston Moron's meet-up. How'd it go?

13 What just may happen is that just before Inauguration Day there will be a rash a "stolen" weapons being reported all over the United States.

The One can't take from you what's already been stolen.

14 When I was stationed in England, Tony Martin lived one town over from me.  He was prosecuted and imprisoned for shooting two house intruders--apparently, despite the British common law tradition that a man's home is his castle, there was no longer any protection of the rights of the homeowner to defend the premises if it involved a firearm. 

At least in stupid Morton Grove, IL, when an "illegal" handgun was used to defend the home, the DA/police chief had the good sense not to prosecute. 

15 7 My question:  What's the point of getting a gun if they can just take it away from you?

For example, this sobering video from the U.K., which I can't seem to copy-paste at the moment (sometimes my computer does that) but I will copy it by hand instead:

http://youtube. com/watch?v=4eyFHYQLzIE

- which I  put an extra space into (before the com), since I don't know how to do that tiny url thing.
__________________________________________________________

See, this ain't England. There are, at last estimate, some 500 million weapons in the United States. So, let's say the gun grabbers get their wish and America is ordered to turn 'em in. Well, what happens when they count up the millions of guns they take and realize that they have only 5 or 10% of total?

That's when it gets interesting. The really worrisome thing is something that can't really be predicted until it happens. That is what percentage of gunowners see it as a right to be protected and what percentage see it as a privilege and a hobby? How many hunters will simply take up fishing when the order comes down? How many people will hide their guns? How many will protest?

The whole strategy of the gun grabbers is taking off a little piece at a time. First the automatics, then the semi-autos, then the handguns, then they rename hunting rifles to sniper rifles, then shotguns become "multiple bullet child killing machines".

16 When Chocolate Jesus won I figured the only safe investments are in breweries, distilleries and gun makers.

17 I told my husband I wanted to get a gun, but I don't think he believe me. I'll go get one from my dad, no records on those pups.

18 In 1995, 72% of Canadians said they'd comply with the gun registry. In 1997, only 58% said they would. In Alberta non-compliance was as high as 60% according to government figures and many people said it was much higher as the government had no real idea how many guns were out there. On the Indian reservations non-compliance was as high as 95%. This is just registering firearms not confiscation. I expect it would be higher in the US.

19

The recent firearms jurisprudence is not reassuring, but the obverse. The fact that it took a *Supreme Court* ruling to say that the English language in fact means what it says it means indicates that we have gone way too far down the road to becoming, as Ace so excellently pointed out recently, a nation of men (and identity groups, I would add), not laws. While both sides will blame the other for this, in my opinion the groups that will not rest, will not allow an legal act they disagree with to continue, will practice "massive resistance", will sue, obstruct, and harass, and in general will display a "will to power" that would make both Alinsky and Machiavelli proud, are on the liberal side. For my evidence, I present illegal immigration as Exhibit A. There is a law, but as Michelle Malkin has pointed out, "it ain't over till the illegal wins."

And so it will be with guns. For the left, the safeties, so to speak, have come off when it comes to being limited by rules of behavior. They simply are going to get their way by hook or by crook. They will naturally say the same thing about the right, but I'm much happier with our record--because the press will stop us cold, while giving a continual pass to the left. The "slap on the wrist" in the Joe the Plumber case. The harassment of Christian churches and Christians in California by anti-Proposition foes. The attempt to overturn that same constitutional amendment as "unconstitutional". The list goes on, and it is time to start cataloging them, for they present a pattern--the left gets to do whatever it wants to, conservatives suffer as they must. I humbly submit that this situation cannot indefinitely continue if those on the right are not willing to surrender their dignity.

Buy the guns, folks. You may need them.

20 An armed society is a polite society.  No, people didn't do this when Clinton was elected because they believed the lies told to them by the democrats.  This time we have ample evidence to lead us not to believe Obama's lies.  I am not reassured by the recent decision because there are dozens of ways congress can get around that decision.  They can tax the bejeezus out of guns and ammo...they can start using the background check data as a registry...lots of other ways.  The answer to whoever asked why buy it if they can just take it away...this isn't England...there will be no "taking away" my guns without a prolonged fight.

21

I don't know the answers.

I'm greatly amused trying to picture a roomful of concerned liberals and/or Obamatons sitting around worrying at the message being sent.

22

"Did people buy guns like crazy right after Clinton was elected?" - Yes. Maybe not as many.

"Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?" - No.

Liberals don't respect the constitution or precident. Barack is going to pick at least two and maybe three or four justices. Hence get'em while you can.

 

23 Hey #21,

Come to Seattle and ask the question in a random coffee shop. You won't need to do any imagining. (You might want to start off acting as a Concerned Liberal, if you are actually trying to avoid a confrontation.)

24 "Well, what happens when they count up the millions of guns they take and realize that they have only 5 or 10% of total?"

They shut off the supply of ammunition.  They shut down shooting ranges,  They shut down the purchase of spare parts.
Time takes care of the rest.

25 I think people are mainly frightened by the fact that Lizard People received higher-than-expected support in the recent election.

26 They shut off the supply of ammunition.  They shut down shooting ranges,  They shut down the purchase of spare parts.
Time takes care of the rest.

That's why you stock up while you can, so you can fight the rats.

27 Ray has a point.

You should generally try to have a parts kit for your firearms.  At least the ones you would actually rely on.

I don't have any need for an "assault" rifle, though I wish I had bought a few of them a few months ago when I suspected Obama would win.  Your money isn't going to be worth crap anyway in two years... might as well buy a gun or two, plenty of magazines, and plenty of ammunition.  It's good clean fun under most circumstances, and under the worst circumstances, it's salvation.

If you have kids, get them a gun.

28 "they can start using the background check data as a registry.'
 it's already happened in my county two months ago. a local rag...the north coast journal [a newspaper so lame that even fish don't want to be wrapped in it..]. published on the front page the names, addresses, and phone numbers of every person with a conceal carry permit. isn't that swell?
 it's one stop shopping for every criminal....as they already know where the guns are.
 that's what obama will do with the info...it will be used as a bludgeon.
 behave or else.

 Al....confrontation as in assault? I feel for you if you live in that intelligence free zone known as western washington....really. seattle where the men are creepy little beta males nellies and the women are all so butch you think you are at one long dykes on bikes parade.

29 A gunstore owner in my area has decided to take an unplanned vacation because  his stock is exhausted and he is not going to be able to resupply for a couple of weeks(he says everybody is in "backorder hell") so he's going to take the opportunity to get some rest because he expects the demand to continue to grow.

30

Hey 19 (I mean Horatius ; )

 

I think that what the Supreme Court was trying to say viz the Second Amendment is "Press 2 for English".

October had 3 paydays and my birthday was 3 days before the election so to celebrate I got a S&W EBR and-so far-4 30 round clips.  They started flying off the shelf at Sportsman's Warehouse but I think supply and demand is holding steady here in Wyoming.  I haven't seen any black helicopters in the vicinity but we are still stocking up on pasta and canned goods.  There's plenty of game if it ends up being like the last 15 minutes of Dances With Wolves.

31 Ray's point is only valid if either they can eliminate the power of voting or he can keep the 2% margin of the population that put him into power for all of the next several 2  year intervals that all of us vote.

32 #7, just google "tinyurl" and in the space where they tell you "make a tiny url" copy and paste the url and then click and you have your url and then you can copy and paste it to any site.

33 Obama's pick for AG, Eric Holder, co-signed an amicus brief in Heller in support of DC's ban on all handguns, and ban on the use of any firearm for self-defense in the home.

Tried to post a link to the brief, but whatever software you're using won't let me. So, if interested google it...

34 It's not just the new president, although that is a big part of it. After all, he was elected despite a long record of anti-gun action.
It's the economy. We may have been in a slump during most of the campaign season in 92, but it wasn't nearly as ominous as what we are looking at now. Add those together and you get a Y2K style fortress mentality. I only hope it turns out to be as much of a wet firecracker as Y2K was.

35 Obama is a marxist.  He has marxist friends, and almost nothing but marxist friends.
He had marxist mentors.

A good reading of history would fill one with dread when seeing the results of a marxist takeover.

36 Yep, Holder is a huge reason for being concerned. 

If Obama could, would he take my guns away?  Of course he would.  And will Holder pass up his chance to try?  Of course he won't.

Thank GOD I live in Texas, and there is no registration of my guns.

37 Damn.  I really wish I'd bought that M1A about a month ago.

38 Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?

Not me.  The Court, while conceding that there is a right, still left the door open to all kinds of onerous regulations that effectively limit that right.  See D.C.'s near-immediate response to the Heller decision, linked here at Instapundit:

"If you want to keep a handgun in your home, the MPD will have to perform ballistic testing on it before it can be legally registered. . . . Firearms in the home must be stored unloaded and disassembled, and secured with either a trigger lock, gun safe, or similar device. The new law will allow an exception for a firearm while it is being used against an intruder in the home."

Insty's comment: "So you can assemble it and load it after the burglar breaks in, without breaking the law. How helpful!"

39 Pinandpuller....I'm thinking not so much dances with wolves much more like red dawn.
 GO WOLVERINES!
 I have never seen people stock up on ammo and easy to store food supplies like they are right now. And I am not talking about the ninnies that were worried about Y2K either...but people you just normally don't associate with preparing for the worst. Other than earthquakes...which we have here almost every day since we are sitting on the cascadia subduction zone. So most of us already have pretty good stocks of food for long periods.And we are all adding to them.
 I feel for the people living in cities...if things go really bad with the economy or god forbid a terrorist attack on top of all this [come on..you just know that is coming. would you be afraid of obama and pelosi if you were a terrorist?] people in cities will need guns desperately to protect their families from other people.
 I am so glad that we live in the middle of no where...........

40 Oh yeah -- I saw the writing on the wall, and finally bought that SKS I'd been thinking about getting for a long time ... a month before the election.  I'm in California, so that's about as good an "InCaseShit" rifle as any that are available to me ... and I still have the Mossberg 500 & Ruger P89 that I've had for years, so I'm covered.

41

Probably a combination of guns being band along with the numerous Adolf/Castro/Chevaz policies-ideology he wants to enact. Domestic Military force and required community service doesn't sit all that well with the peasants either. That he has long standing ties to Ayers, Wright, Rezco, Farrakan etc. and a past that is a foggy mystery he refuses to disclose, scares the hell out of half the population.

 

42 I'm not a gun owner and never wanted to be. I can't even afford it but i'd buy one if i had the money. Things are going to get bad

43 I took the election as a good excuse to finally get myself the 1911 I've wanted for so long.  I'm putting a lot of faith in the NRA and donating what I can to help with that.  I honestly don't believe Obama would be able to push anti-gun legislation through, too many democrats elected in very red states that have their jobs to worry about.  Of course, I might just be overly optimistic here.  Either way, I'm working on stockpiling ammo.

44 Sherrie find a shotgun maybe at a pawn shop if you have to. Or check Craigslist. They really aren't much. Have something. Fortunately I have been able to buy an AK and a Benelli shotgun. Already had the Glock. It's coming. Citigroup is looking to sell off assets, it's really all you need to know that things are desperate. Citigroup! They are all chickens without a head.

45 RayJ @ 24

Will always finds a way.

46 Obama WILL push a total gun ban, but will likely settle for 600% ammo tax. That's liberals for you.

I hope the NRA targets every Red State Dem.

47
I think it will be pretty obvious pretty quickly that a general gun ban would be about as effective as it's been in New York, DC, Chicago, or LA.

In other words, Bollocks.

The 100+ million lawful gun owners, in addition, are simply going to say "no" in large numbers, and the bureaucrat in charge of the program is going to lose all credibility. The entire idea will be scrapped, though I doubt there will be any rollbacks of the stupid restrictions they already have in place.

They will push too hard, too fast, and fall on their asses. immovable object will be met by stoppable force.

But there will, no doubt, be some scary moments, especially for city folk.

Don't get me wrong, buy the guns. You may not need the for a TEOTWAWKI scenario, but every neighborhood has its bad days.

48 I'm more worried about the economic damage and the stupidifying of the MSM-watching public, frankly.

Watch out for serious gun bans 13 years down the road, after the next swing.

49 Ray's point is only valid if either they can eliminate the power of voting or he can keep the 2% margin of the population that put him into power for all of the next several 2  year intervals that all of us vote.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at November 21, 2008 01:56 AM (MOdlB)

I believe that is tasked to the social justice crusaders at ACORN and Project Vote. With friendly judges, county commissioners, state officials and the US attorneys as well as the Attorney General they have a decided advantage. Take a look at the assistance that local officials gave Obama when he needed Joe The Plumber dealt with. Six organizations broke the law (that we know of) and the election recounts going on are becoming something of a joke. They have no great respect for the minor things in life like...you know, the Law and Constitution.

I think they could probably manage better than 2%.

50

#49 Travis. et al...

The reason all candidates are forced to run Right is that they know they are "outnumbered" by reality.  Giving away free stuff works when you are the conduit or the recipient but no one volunteers to be the donor.  Reality will eventually trump ACORN, the NEA, SEIU, every tenured terrorist on every fleabag community college campus, etc...  Reality doesn't yield to sophistry.

Teaching willful blindness might work for one or two election cycles, but eventually, a dead fish smells enough like a dead fish to make even the most purple-lipped Kool-Aid sipper hold their nose.

51 Wow!! You guys and your gun fixation. I've never lived in USA and have never owned wesapons or felt the need to. Is this not surely a cultural obsession for you rather than a real need in order to stay alive. I'd be interested to know how many of you morons have ever fired a weapon in anger at another citizen. This from a longtime valurite consumer. Don't get me wrong ... the barbed cock of Satan does still rule!

52

Ask yourself this question: are you willing to shoot the local county mountie who comes to collect your guns? If you are, then buy them, and plenty of ammo with them, because it may very well come to that.

If not, save your money to pay Bama's new taxes with.

Bama's people are dead solid serious about taking your rights away. They're not going to be negotiated with or distracted. They think they're right and they're planning on steamrollering you right into where Britain is now.

The only way to stop them is to show that you're willing to use those guns to defend your rights. If you're going to get into the fight, be prepared to go all the way with it. Remember: Bama's best buddy thought it was fine to blow up the Pentagon or the homes of law enforcement officials he didn't like. Do you really think Bama's going to shy at disarming the people that he KNOWS hate and despise him and what he stands for? They're sure they've got the whip hand now. Don't fool yourself into thinking they won't try to use it for all its worth. Having that crook Holder as AG is just the first move. There will be more, and soon. These people have no plans to ever peacefully surrender power again.

 

53 Did my previous contibution to the debate upset someone....?

54 The Charlton Heston answer to gun confiscation (in 7 seconds and 5 words)

55 Back row guy, The point is not to have to fire your weapon at another person. Simply showing your gun, or letting your house fill with the wonderful sound of a racking shotgun, is usually enough to get a burglary to run away. Those of us in SoCal remember April 1992, when the cops refused to come to the aid of Korean shopkeepers, and left them to die at the hands of the rampaging Rodney King mobs. We need guns, because we can't count on the cops doing their job in the event of serious lawlessness (riots, hurricanes, earthquakes - all excuses for cops to take guns from law abiding citizens, and then step back to let the criminals run wild).

56

ok, press send.

Do you guys have a fixation about weapons  for personal safety? How many of yoy have actually fired a weapon in anger? And why would you need more than one? In an event situation you would only use one at a time surely. This from a  longtime valurite consumer and admirer of Satan's crown jewel.

57 ooops comments thread gremlins . My question's asked somewhere....sorry.

58 Wooga...was that an extreme situation not to be repeated or are you now habituated to toting guns? cAN YOU SEE A TIME WHEN THAT LEVEL OF LAWLESSNESS RECEEEDES. sorrry, caps lock not anger. 

59

Obama is only half of the equation.

In addition to having an untested, untried leader stepping in to the Office of the Presidency...

... Well, we've also got an economy that's going into meltdown.

If Obama was becoming President during a strong US economy in a time of relative global stabitlity, gun sales would be swelling, not spiking.

Obama's going to be our next President AND economists are telling us to buckle up for Mad Max World. Plus, there's terrorism.

Who DOESN'T want guns?

60 Merovign

I give it 20 years, but yeah, that's about right.  The general collapse is a short ways off still, and there are simply too many conservative-running dems (like Webb and Tester) to make any crazy anti-gun maneuvers.  I doubt there'll even be an ammo tax.  BO is shaping up to be a fine pragmatist, and I couldn't be happier about that.  I'll take another Clinton any day over the commie monster we've been fearing.  He already waffled on tortue, Iraq, and Gitmo, and those were centerpieces of his campaign.  Guns weren't even on the list after his mushy "support" for Heller.  If the politics were like 10 years ago, I'd worry about a more evil AWB.  As it stands, even teh libs are buying guns now, and the politcs are all in favor of private ownership.


Plus, remember that Biden will make BO take his $3000 over-under from Biden's cold, dead hands (yeah, right).





and back row moby,

if we want to hear your simpering, sniveling sneers, we'll light you on fire.  For now, keep your craven trap shut as free men are talking.  Go run along and be a good subject of whatever marginal nation you come from.  Our forefathers freed this nation with their guns.  We can do it again if we have to, and the way things are going, we just might have to at some point in teh next few decades.

61 53 Did my previous contibution to the debate upset someone....?

Back row guy, it is 4:30am-1:30am in the continental US.
You posted that 8 minutes before you asked, and people from the US that are self-reliant (not liberal, socialist, or progressive) really don't care what outsiders think. If you want a reaction, you might want to go to the dailykos, thinkprogress or some other pansy site where they get their panties in a knot because the the leftists in Europe think they're not sophisticated.

62 Reality doesn't yield to sophistry.

Teaching willful blindness might work for one or two election cycles, but eventually, a dead fish smells enough like a dead fish to make even the most purple-lipped Kool-Aid sipper hold their nose.

Posted by: societyis2blame at November 21, 2008 04:19 AM (Fs50j)

I would believe that somewhat more willingly if European socialism didn't have a decades long history. France was playing with socialism before WW2 and it contributed to their humiliating defeat. They elected them immediately after the war. Russia has many people longing for the good old days of communism, and in America the African-American community has been devastated by policies that they keep voting for time after time. In Israel refugees from the Soviet Union established socialist Kibbutz's that surprise, surprise, surprise...failed. In America Blue Staters leave New York and other such states and then immediately vote for the same economic policies that put them on the road to the red states.

Colour me a tad cynical about the voters willing to look reality in the eye.

63 My wife is from Taiwan and she says when we move back to the States, she wants to have a gun.

and a pick-up truck.

I'm waiting for the request for a hunting dog or a moonshine still.

64 Do you guys have a fixation about weapons  for personal safety?

You would if you had a vagina and had to work nights in crappy neighborhoods like I do.


How many of yoy have actually fired a weapon in anger?

How is this relevant? I hope I never have to use any of my weapons.


And why would you need more than one?

Have you ever only slept with one woman? Why would you ever need to sleep with more than one?

65 Posted by: moronizer at November 21, 2008 04:43 AM (zsg56)

As a Canadian I am a loyal subject of the Crown, who is Her majesty Queen Elizabeth II. I am also a free man, so the two do not have to be mutually exclusive, but you are correct that sadly they often are.

Back row guy

The possession of weapons often means never having to use them. It is the idea that all power should not be invested in our betters, but rather that if push comes to shove the last line of defence is an armed populace. This prevents the easy establishment of a totalitarian government. The sort of government, which has been established in Europe all too often. Switzerland, unlike most European states has avoided occupation and dictatorship for hundreds of years. It also has a well-armed citizenry.

The violence seen in France, England and elsewhere is largely absent in the more conservative well armed areas of the United States. Most of the violence that does take place, does so in the urban districts, blue states, and more restrictive with regards to firearms. There are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

You are also a LOT less upsetting than you imagine. Most conservatives have dealt with narrow-minded liberals on many occasions and speaking for myself, I tend to ignore them unless there is a point to be made to others, by answering them. The reason for this is that liberals have poor cognitive skills. They reason by emotion rather than by thought. Whatever reasoning they do use is applied to justifying their emotional reactions. Arguing with one is largely pointless as no logical argument can sway them.

66 "Posted by: Mike at November 21, 2008 03:25 AM"

I agree. A shotgun would be a good way to go for anyone looking for their first gun. I know many people will disagree, but I'm convinced that my 12 ga pump is the ultimate weapon for home defense. And given that shotguns are the guns most commonly used for sporting purposes, they're likely to be the last ones confiscated or rendered useless by controlling ammunition. In many areas, purchasing a shotgun requires no documentation--under any gun confiscation regime, there will be millions of 'em that the govt knows nothing about. Shotguns are cheap, durable, easy to use (with practice), untraceable (for the most part), and they'll put a big hole in anything you want to shoot. I'm partial to Mossberg 500 and Remington 870, but if you're contemplating a shotgun purchase, get one you like, because you'll probably have it for the rest of your life.

67

Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?

 

NO; I have said all along that the most recent ruling was a defeat for the Constitution. The ruling did only one good thing and several bad things. In addition, the good thing was limited in scope to FEDERAL LAW only.

 

Good thing: Destroyed the so-called militia stretch by the gun grabbers.

 

Bad things:

 

It did not settle the incorporation question for the 2^nd amendment, thus limiting the ruling to federal courts and laws.

 

It allowed the government to “abridge” gun ownership by saying they could regulate the types of guns owned.

 

It allowed the government to “abridge” gun ownership by regulating where a gun may be carried.

 

It allowed the government to “abridge” gun ownership by regulating who may own a gun.

 

And finally, it allowed the government to “abridge” gun ownership by opening the door to any number of so-called “common sense” gun regulations such as “registration” and waiting periods.

 

No people, we would have got the same outcome without all the negatives if SCOTUS had never agreed to take the case and let the DC case stand. In this ruling I see the handy-work of that asshole Kennedy.

68 From what I heard this is step 2 in the deal - the first step, and still hitting many gun stores, is the run on ammo before the election.  There are still some places with popular calibers out of stock.  One of my favorite online stores is basically out of 45 ACP, all variants, with just some in stock... I can go elsewhere of course, and will.   The insane AWB idea of magazine capacity has lingered over in MA and CA, plus parts of IL and other areas and we see even harsher limitations that followed on... it isn't the AWB, but the idea of being able to tell individuals how to defend themselves that is worrying.  The run on guns started before the name of Holder came up, because it is the Leftist view that citizens must be restricted in firearms because they don't trust citizens to use them responsibly.  Have we seen a huge uptick in crimes with alleged 'assault weapons'?  Not that I've seen.  And yet that is proof positive the AWB did *nothing*... and no one brings that up against those wanting further gun control.  Lets point to a responsible citizenry as our best source for securing liberty, because the responsible gun owners have demonstrated that for *decades*, indeed all the way back to the founding.  Criminals will always have a venue for violence and firearms, Britain demonstrates that in spades: stopping people from being able to defend themselves emboldens criminals and erodes property rights and puts your personal life at risk.   It is those ideals that the backers of President-elect Obama hold: restriction of the rights of citizens to defend themselves and actually trusting government to defend them.  It doesn't work.  You want to see where the AWB leads?  Look at MA and CA, places where some manufacturers refuse to ship *anything*.  I'm loading up and having some fun infusing cash into the economy doing it.  I am no gun nut... I trust government so little that this is necessary.

69

I went to a gun show this weekend. Normally there would be a couple hundred people at the county fairgrounds but thousands of people showed up and there was no parking to be found. A line of people a half mile long was waiting in the freezing rain to get in.

I bought a new XD-M but they were sold out of ammo. I was told that dealers in the entire country were sold out of AR-15s and AK-47s. They're saying it's going to be a 6 month wait before news ones are available, provided they are still legal then.

 

70 We have a militia of seven heading to the gun show tomorrow.  I will finally have my glock!!!

71 How long does ammunition stay good?  (I finally got to shoot my father's .35 lever action rifle this summer in Maine.  What a rush!)  I inherited a bunch of his guns, had them all checked out by a gunsmith, and have waited to use them.  I also inherited a bunch of ammo that has to be at least 30 years old.  I only have used new ammo and am not sure what to do with the old ammo.  It looks like some of the old .35 Remmington ammo has "seeped" over the years.  Any advice on what to do with the old ammo?

Man, ammo is expensive! 

72

How long does ammunition stay good?

 

I'm still shooting World War I .30-06 surplus. Keep it dry and it'll last longer than you.

73

I know someone who is buying a gun for reasons unrelated to the Obamessiah's ascension to the Oval Office.

He thinks this economy is going to get much, much worse: huge unemployment, increase in hunger and homelessness, etc.  As a result, he believes that things will get so bad that people may start breaking into other people's home to steal things they can't procure for themselves (food, money, etc.).  Therefore, he got a gun to protect himself and his family and property should that apocalyptic scenario unfold.

Paranoid?  Yeah, probably.  But that's why he's buying his gun.

74

My question:  What's the point of getting a gun if they can just take it away from you?

hahaha...that made my morning.....i could only hope.

the backorders are ridiculous a high capacity magazine like the 30 round magpul pmag for the ar15 are back ordered in the 100s of thousands.

4-6 month waits on lower recievers....obama is definitely doing his part to stimulate the economy...or at least a small part of it.

 

 

75

How long does ammunition stay good?

 

The only ammunition type stuff that doesn’t age well, especially if exposed to moisture and damp, is black powder. All other should last virtually forever. Especially military surplus which has a seal around the primer.

 

I have some shotgun shells for my father’s old 16 gage that are at least 40 years old that I would have no problem shooting. I probably will not because they are probably worth more as collectors items and I can still get 16 gage shells, but they would still shoot.

76

Al....confrontation as in assault? I feel for you if you live in that intelligence free zone known as western washington....really. seattle where the men are creepy little beta males nellies and the women are all so butch you think you are at one long dykes on bikes parade.

Ain't that the truth. Ughhhh.

Washington State actually has very 'liberal' gun laws and CCW's are rather easy to acquire, as long as you're a law abiding citizen. It's not quite like NY or CA...yet.

 

77 They can't take what they can't find.

God Bless Texas!

78 "The general collapse is a short ways off still,"

2011
I did the math. Study the mechanics of all the other currency collapses.

Fucking Nixon. Fucking Soros.

79 If it gets to the point where we need to hide them, its far past where we needed to use them.

80 Learn to reload. Get a simple single-stage press, a good reloading manual, a scale, a dial caliper, brass-trimming tool, powder measure, hand-operated priming tool, wooden blocks to hold the cases as you load them, and a bunch of GI surplus steel ammo cans. Get bulk powder, primers, and bullets for each cartridge. None of that stuff is registered or tracked. You can be set for life for defense ammo. At gun shows there are always good deals on used reloading equipment and components. It's fun to reload. It's WAY cheaper, too. I can load .45 practice ammo (which will also serve for defense) for $6 a box, instead of paying $18 at the range.

81 Someone asked if you would be willing to engage the "local mountie" when he came for your gun.  Well I can't speak for the jurisdiction of that poster, but I can assure him or her that in the vast majority of the rural and suburban environs of the U.S. the local constabulary would refuse to take part in any federal edict to confiscate firearms.

It's the always proposed (by liberals) national police force that we must be willing to engage.  So, to answer that question:  Yes.

82 ammo is not "still in good supply".

.223, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 and all pretty well wiped out at the online dealers, you can get it but the inventory is drastically reduced and the price is going up on some.

Hi Cap mags, AR15 lowers and parts and AK's of any flavor got wiped out in the first 72 hours.

Sadly, I lost all of my firearms years ago in a tragic boating accident and haven't purchased any since.

83 Went to the Fort Worth gun show last weekend and it was a bad joke in between the ridiculous prices (think double) and crowds gone wild.

84 "Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?"

No. The court has weak structural power, and structure is the only power that matters long term. The new administration is going to do whatever they like.

85 Fences make good neighbors, and an armed and trained public make good government.

86 Bob Owens' post says that until recently, Obama's website indicated his intention to pass a new AWB.

That's not exactly true. The AWB is back up on the website, but it's been moved to the urban agenda. He supports a new, permanent AWB. 

Lefty pundits are scoffing at people buying up black rifles, but they don't realize that Obama's intentions are clearly stated on his own website.

87 I know I have a Stoeger Cougar 8000 on my christmas list....

88 How much is an NRA membership?

89 Eman,

NRA membership is $35 annually, although from time to time they run special rates. Please join, and beyond that become active in NRA and / or local shooting club activity. 

90 I think it's the spectre of courts taking action on gun rights, much like the California Supreme Court wants to do on Prop. 8.  When the courts presume to try to overrule the people,  things will get ugly.

91 This is good news. This means the 'right' people (you can read that several ways( will be armed when the constitution breakers try to take away our rights.

Viva la revolucion!

92 Damn minx. Why do we have to add the http:// to the URL?

93 What is going to happen is that the dems will push this ban through and then they will try and use a SWAT team on some poor bunch of slobs hold up in a millitia compound as a way to intimidate everyone into turning their guns in. And as what normally happens when libs try and use force it will be a screwed up blood bath ei. Wacco all over again. That is when it will get interesting as people could very well start pushing back violently. 

94

www.ammoman.com

www.cheaperthandirt.com

 

95 Perhaps the time is here to load up on "Lawyers, Guns, and Money".  :-)

96

Where are Obama's reassurances to gun owners?  Funny how he hasn't wanted to talk to us since he won.  All I hear is the ominous "sound of one hand clapping".  I think a lot of other people have heard it too. 

97 With Mexican drug lords killing cops, militia, and citizens like open season, Im sure they would be thrilled to come on into an unarmed US. Lets be honest its not like we can stop them at the border either. With the economy going like it is, it defies common sence to impliment AWB. But liberals arent known for their good decisions anyway.

98 I realize it's a bit late in the game, but can I nominate "back row guy" for the "three gold stars in missing the fucking point entirely" award?

Yes, BRG, if you think that the purpose of having a gun is to "fire it in anger" at "a fellow citizen," then YOU shouldn't have one. But that doesn't really apply to the rest of us, who aren't bugfuck insane.

But that is the kind of behavior we've come to expect from ignorant serfs, so terrified by reality that they're unwilling to peek out from behind the skirts of the all-powerful state, confident that a few layers of imaginary cloth will protect them from all that is bad in the world.

99 Did people buy guns like crazy right after Clinton was elected?

Yes, in south FL they did..  Janet Reno scared the crap out of people.

Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?

Nope.  There are a myriad of other things that can be done within the scope of the SCOTUS decision.  ex. an exorbitant tax on ammunition.  Schumer's daffy scheme to serial number bullets, getting EPA involved in "lead hazards" at ranges, etc.  All of these could raise the price of ammo and training so high as to make it out of reach for ordinary people.

Lets not forget -- the first attempt at banning "cop killer" bullets would have also banned, due to ineptly crafted (or perhaps intentional) language, ordinary hollow points.  The NRA pitched a fit over this and the final language was a lot more sane.

100 For what it's worth, in Illinois we have a handful of municipalities that are repealing their bans of firearms ownership because of Heller.  They are liberal governments that were strongly in favor of gun control.  They're repealing their laws because they fear civil suits and the costs they would incur trying to defend their now illegal ordinances.

http://tinyurl.com/5zbt2q

101 I think this is just a rush on the existing supply before the Brady Bunch starts notching victories.  I don't think Obama seeks gun control early, but I do think he'll use it if he needs to build a majority on some other issue.  He'll use a gun grab to feed the Democratic base probably in the the 2010 election year.

It's going to be hard to do that though because a gun grab could turn these blue dog Democrats in the House into Republican seats.

102 Back row guy, I think there are a few trolls in this thread. The people who are out buying guns already have other guns so I doubt there is anything to worry about. Everyone is a little crazy and it pours out somewhere. Some people buy guns, others are religious, the internet...

#98, Pretend you are someone else and read this thread before you start questioning peoples sanity.

103 Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?

NO.

Obama is a hard-left gun-grabber and has been one for his entire career. He has picked another gun-grabber as his AG. All Heller said, unfortunately, was that a blanket ban was unconstitutional. As many have explained, its very easy to make (legal) firearms possession and ownership difficult or impossible without going that far. A clever mix of very expensive "safety" regulations and new taxes can do it just as well.

104 The reason for Americans buying guns is fairly self-evident, in part. Obama and his people intend to make gun and ammo purchases more difficult and expensive after he's in office. He's said as much, and his thoughts on private gun ownership are more clearly stated than most of his views. The second factor is uncertainty. How far is Obama willing to go to disarm the populace? What are his intentions? Worst case, it's true a well-equpped, expanded ATF or Civil Defense Force could take away the firearms from a typical homeowner without much trouble, how well would they fare if met with varying amounts of resistance from 10,000 homes? 100,000? More? But that's just it: Obama has not been clear on what he means to do about guns, or about dissenting voices in print or on the airwaves, or about anything of import. 'Hope! Change!' are  fuzzy-bunny, one-word slogans. Thus, people respond to uncertainty by buying guns and ammo. It's a very American response.

105 >I'm still not sure what's fueling this frenzy.

Here, I'll enlighten you. (But really, don't be coy.  You know exactly why this is happening.)

Websites, such as this one, have hailed Obama as the next coming of Stalin, while other gooberheads have been spreading the false information that Obama's state police will round up all of our guns right before the Red Revolution.

Of course, this is all BS.  But don't act like this is something you're surprised by.

I dunno about you guys, but I still have my guns. 

106 cAN YOU SEE A TIME WHEN THAT LEVEL OF LAWLESSNESS RECEEEDES

No. You can't legislate Human nature

107

I am nearing 50 years old and I never felt the need to own a gun.  And I lived in the inner city of Denver.  Even after a man was shotgunned to death two blocks from my house I did not feel moved to own guns.

Now I do.  I bought a glock 19, and a black rifle (LMT CQB).  I was going to get a benelli shotgun, but figured the AR would be more fun on the range and nearly as good defensively if I get some tactical rifle training.  (although I cannot imagine what it would sound like having that sucker go off in the house.)

The funny thing is that my wife and I went out to do tactical pistol training and the guy who trained us let us fire his AR.  My wife immediately wanted one.  Yes I married well. 

 

doug

 

108 And why would you need more than one?

Fuck you.  This is America.  That means I don't have to needs-justify a got-damn thing that I own, let alone an item thats ownership is a right specifically guaranteed by the document that purports to be the highest law in the land.

109 Of course, this is all BS.

Some residents of NOLA would argue otherwise.  The recent precedent in Canada and Australia is also disturbing.

110

Hey, palooka. Let me enlighten you: Obama is a thinly veiled socialist. He looks like a socialist duck, he walks like a socialist duck, he quacks like a socialist duck, all of his friends are socialists ducks, and he's going to do what all socialist ducks do: drive a once-thriving free market economy into the ground, stifle dissent, and very loosely interpret the Constitution he will have sworn to defend. Second coming of Stalin? No. Think more Allende, and you're closer to the mark.

111 Obama doesn't know his history.  Even Fleet Admiral and Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy Isoroku Yamamoto understood America when he said, "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."  There will be hell to pay if Obama and his administration even try.

112 America is a lot more pussified today than 60 years ago though.  Quite a number of states would submit.  There'd be a lot of midnight gardening in others.

Gun confiscations aren't a trigger point for revolution.  They weren't in Canada or Australia.

113

The same thing that is driving the DOW blowout is driving the gun sales. People in the stock market are scared of what the Obamite crowd is going to do and so are people in the gun market. Put the two of them together and you have a kind of regenerative feedback, The collapse of the economy will result in civil unrest. An admin that already believes in gun grabbing will see the civil unrest, and like New Orleans, they will commence collecting the guns and banning their sale.

 

The first step is banning sale.

114

I dunno about you guys, but I still have my guns. 
Posted by: palooka@gmail.com at November 21, 2008 10:54 AM (QlZjK)

You act like it is unconceivable that there will be another AWB .  Or that authorities have never confiscated guns (New Orleans) or that the Democrats have attempted to identify all gun owners, sue gun manufacturers, ban ownership, etc. 

115

I already had my AR, but I bought a second for my 1 year old son so that he can be grandfathered in when its declared illegal. 

116 Purp.

This ain't Canada and this ain't Australia, thank God.

The biggest mistake liberals will make is to assume that the reaction of U.S. citizens will be comparable to those who remained loyal to the crown.

There is a reason we through off those shackles, and a mind set.  Our brethren of English origin are much more compliant with majestical edicts.  Americans?  Not so much.

117 Palooka,

Bambi has stated unequivocally that he is opposed to private ownership of guns. This was his clear position before he started running for President. Do you think he's lying?

118 "Threw". 

119 It's fun to reload. It's WAY cheaper, too.

When I was 13 years old I spent a summer working at the Hartford Gun Club as a general gofer for some of the bigger wigs.  When there was nothing for me to do, they taught me to use reloading equipment.  It was a lot of fun.  Beat the hell out of sitting in one of the trap bunkers, loading clay pigeons all day long.
Man, that was a fun summer. I felt like Henry Hill in the first third of Goodfellas.

120

The MSM tsk tsk-ing about gun proliferation has started.  NBC ran a segment on gun violence and the recent spike in sales.  My two favorite parts:

1.  No mention that The One's election is actually driving the increase in sales because anyone with a brain knows that after he arm-wrestles Turkey Creek Joe Biden to confiscate his arsenal, The One will be coming after the rest of them.

2.  "Every gun started out as a legal gun" was parrotted twice and seems destined to become the confiscation mantra. 

Constitutional kabuki theatre begins 01-20-09. 

 

121 Buy your gunstore a shredder for Xmas. I'm sure they have many law-abiding and wholesome uses for one.

122 Consider that many of these people are buying guns now, out of fear that they will be outlawed later. 

Does that sound as if they will just turn them in if they are outlawed? 

In your dreams.
-

123 nightwitch at #64, just read your comments and had to refrain from laughing aloud to forestall inquisitive glances from the client. Too cool for school.

124

Living in Texas, I don't imagine there will be enough police willing to go door to door to collect guns.  Not that I need to worry anyway.  All my guns were stolen years ago, darn the luck.

125 Enemies, Foreign and Domestic.

126 As for whether recent jurisprudence regarding the 2nd amendment reassures me, that's a joke, right?  The supreme court has made it abundantly clear in previous rulings (ex: McCain-Feingold) that the constitution is just a guideline to be overriden by the opinions of the jurists.  You never know when the next emmination or prenumbra will turn up.

127 Did people buy guns like crazy right after Clinton was elected?

No, it took a couple of years before the "Clinton Gun Boom" took off.. Bill and Janet sold lots of fucking guns - so many that some gun stores financially regretted the end of the Clinton administration.

Back Row Guy -
51  I've never lived in USA and have never owned weapons or felt the need to.

You've probably been a subject all your life then. You belong to a sovereign and look to him to protect you. Fair trade if you're a serf. We republicans (note the small "r") like the Romans and Swiss before us insist on the right and tools of personal defense. It's a part of that whole republican package.

Is this not surely a cultural obsession for you rather than a real need in order to stay alive.

We are a free people in a free country and intend to stay that way. We each are responsible for our own self-defense and have an obligation for communal defense. And yes, our liberty is a cultural obsession.

I'd be interested to know how many of you morons have ever fired a weapon in anger at another citizen.

83% of defensive uses of a firearm do not require a shot fired - the bad guy just runs away. Just the fact of gun ownership changes the dynamics of crime and prevention. In America Tony Martin would never have happened, no criminal is fucking stupid enough to invade the home of a farmer. In fact, only 10% of burglaries of this country are of occupied homes - in England the number is near 60%.

This from a longtime valurite consumer. Don't get me wrong ... the barbed cock of Satan does still rule!

Well keep sucking it.



   .

128

troyriser,

Let me enlighten you, there is nothing thinly veiled about Obama being a socialist. He didn't even deny it when Joe the Plumber said his plan sounded like socialism. Actually I think he's probably more in line with Lenin and Stalin.

I don't think the damage he will do in one term can ever be fully corrected.

 

129 #128,

Stalin?

130

When they start collecting guns it will not be in some massive effort of marshals going door to door. They will do it the same way they did the conversion of the U.S. from free-market capitalism to communism. (note the past tense there).

 

It will be done in a “boiling frog methodology” and it is already happening. It started in the 30s with the ban on automatic weapons and short shotguns. It took a giant leap forward in the 60s with the gun control act of 1968 and it has been progressing at a steady pace a little here and a little there. They never jump so hard that a lot of people get their backs up. Like the One said, “its not that it went up, the problem is that it went up so fast”.

 

The final days will come after AWB part II, in which even guns like the Remington 742 BDL will be banned, along with magazines holding more than 3 rounds et al.  Like the ban on ownership of weapons for people who have had a restraining order implemented (Lautenberg amendment), more reasons will be found that will allow people to adjudicated into felons for the purposes of gun ownership. By the time they are through with that one anyone who has ever had a run in with the law for any reason will be banned from gun ownership.

 

That will be the end, but they will still not go out in the “mass confiscation” mode. What will happen is that every time they search a home or arrest someone for any reason, guns found in their possession will be confiscated. The sheep of the time may be come a little nervous and bleat forth with a few baa’s but nothing will come of it.

 

After 50 years or so of that only a few “fringe” nutcases will have possession of guns.

131 And to think Obama had the gall to suggest certain people are clinging to guns. 

Cling away!

132 People want to buy guns now so that later when the gummemint takes them they will have something to give them. It is all really eather logical

133

Well, it just so happens that there is a gun show this weekend and another one on 1\17-1\18 (that's right, the weekend before the One's corronation) within walking distance to my house.

Luck me that I have at least 2 gun shows to go to before the "gun show loophole" closes...

134

Three thoughts:

 

1)  When the AR is banned, the value of existing AR's increases significantly.

2)  If AR's are banned, only Obama's troops will have AR's (unless YOU have one of your own...)

3)  An economic meltdown will cause some civil disorders.  Nobody knows exactly how many, where, or how violent they may be.

135

I'd be interested to know how many of you morons have ever fired a weapon in anger at another citizen.

I have never fired a weapon in anger at another citizen but I always fire my weapons in anger.  After all, I am an angry white man.

By the way, would you be concerned if I fired at a non-citizen?

136 Vic #130 is right.  There won't be outright confiscation.  It will be little, by little, by little.  A tax here, an ordinance there.  Over the years the noose will get tighter but you won't be able to focus on what to fight.  There will be too many small laws and rules.  Each so small and innocuous that if you fight it people will call you a gun nut.  That is the way collectivists operate.  SO far it has been VERY effective for them.

137 NOW is the time to tuck away some insurance.  6" PVC pipe and end caps are still( relatively) cheap.

138 I'm certainly worried, but hey, even the San Francisco self-imposed gun ban was overturned...

139

Does the Supreme Court's recent firearm jurisprudence holding that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to firearms reassure anyone?

Not really - we came one vote from haveing the 2A gutted.  Even the four dissenting judges agreed that the 2A guarantees an individual right, however...

Obama himself has stated he believes in the individual right reading, but that jurisdicitions may impose restrictions upon it.  I'd be interested in hearing the noted Constitutional scholar explain how local jurisdictions may also restrict other Contitutional rights.  I can't see him getting onboard with Chicago establishing a state religion (under the argument that the 1A only specifies Congress shall not...) or with Hyde Park banning the right of assembly or petition for redress.  The Second Amendment is the only part of the Bill or Rights that carries a secret "not really" footnote invisible to anyone but leftists.

140 What are you planning to do with 6" PVC pipes and end caps?

141

He's gonna make a blow-dart gun, Mike.

Say, you aren't labrador-lovin' Mike, making a comeback are you?

142

Mike, put something in a pvc pipe--and ideally that something is wrapped in plastic and well-oiled--or even packed in cosmoline or equivalent, and the ammun--er, accessories are equally well protected. Cap the ends. Bury whatever's in that pipe in a location known only to you and/or close friends and family.

143 No, I am a different troll. I am worried that people are going to panic and blow all their money on guns and survival gear instead of Christmas presents and make the recession worse though. At this rate everyone is going to be giving each other guns for Christmas because Obama is apparently some sort of Stalinist.

144 Are there significant rises in sales of  large-diameter PVC piping and cosmoline?

145 I am worried that people are going to panic and blow all their money on guns and survival gear instead of Christmas presents and make the recession worse

If the economy is depending on my buying  Christmas presents, they are shit out of luck this year. We're going super-lean, with handmade gifts, baked goods and promises of labor exchange among family and friends.

Just kidding. Actually, I'm giving guns and survival gear AS Christmas presents.

146 #142,

What is the point of having a gun if it is buried in the back yard?

147 CrankyProf,

In my family we are just giving each other manifestos.

148 You can almost guarantee that new SOB we elected is going to bring back the assault weapons ban -- that's what has me worried. I just bought another M4, and for Christmas I'm probably gonna buy an AK-47. You gotta get them now while you still can.

149

Gee, Mike, if people are purchasing guns and survival gear, or giving them as Christmas gifts, how does that hurt the economy?  The money is still being spent...

And as for 'apparently some sort of stalinist', I suppose you haven't been listening to what obama and friends have said lo these many years, especially his mentors ayers and dohrn.  The 25 million Americans that would have to be eliminated in order for capitalism to be eradicated...that doesn't ring a bell?

Or should we just laugh that off as the musings of a bunch of college-aged radicals who lived out a fantasy 40 years ago?  Whilst bombing buildings and plotting to overthrow our government...and, as good friends of the current president-elect, continue to be unrepentant, and claim that in fact, they "didn't do enough"??

150 Oh, hi, Mike. We generally put things in sealed containers and then in holes or the like for secure, long-term storage. The whole hole-in-the-ground thing has been around for many thousands of years--for as long as there have been confiscatory tribal chieftans, kings, warlords, tyrants, and generallissimos, I imagine.

151 I am no economist, but if people spend all their money on guns instead of regular Christmas gifts the regular businesses might fail. That leaves us with a weapons based economy and that is not sustainable.

I suspect that Obama is probably focused on the economy rather than genocide.

152

Even the four dissenting judges agreed that the 2A guarantees an individual….

 

Not hardly. From the opening lines of the dissent by the liberal communistas in Heller:

 

The Second Amendment was adopted to protect the right of the people of each of the several States to maintain a well-regulated militia. It was a response to concerns raised during the ratification of the Constitution that the power of Congress to disarm the state militias and create a national standing army posed an intolerable the text of the Amendment nor the arguments advanced by its proponents evidenced the slightest interest in limiting any legislature’s authority to regulate private civilian uses of firearms. Specifically, there is no indication that the Framers of the Amendment intended to enshrine the common-law right of self-defense in the Constitution.

 

Not only do they NOT say it is an individual right, but they also say that there is no right to self-defense.  If we get some more justices like this we are really going to be in good shape here folks.

153 In my family we are just giving each other manifestos.

Lovely. All of that hot air will help you save on heating bills. You can pump that extra money into buying Christmas presents, to make up for the fact that I'm not buying any.

154 >Hey, palooka. Let me enlighten you: Obama is a thinly veiled socialist. He looks like a socialist duck, he walks like a socialist duck, he quacks like a socialist duck, all of his friends are socialists ducks, and he's going to do what all socialist ducks do: drive a once-thriving free market economy into the ground, stifle dissent, and very loosely interpret the Constitution he will have sworn to defend. Second coming of Stalin? No. Think more Allende, and you're closer to the mark.


Anyone who makes use of the police, fire department, public roads, or even a public water fountain makes use of socialism.

I still fail to see how it's supposed to be a slur.

155 I was in my favorite gun shop last week, and they were packed.  I talked to one of the owners, and he said that they have been selling about one gun every 15 minutes.  AR-15's are hot.  They sell one an hour until they are out, and resume again when a shipement arrives.  He's amazed by it.  He's been in the business for 40 years and he's never seen anything like it.  In his words, "I'm happy as hell for the business, but it's a bitch keeping everyone happy with the stock I have in the store!"

156

Mike,  you wrote, 'I suspect that Obama is probably focused on the economy rather than genocide.'

I suspect Obama and his buddies--Emanuel, Raines, Franks, Dodds and a whole bunch of others--orchestrated the blowup of the subprime crisis to coincide with the general election. After all, the underlying causes are a mystery to most non-economists and the GOP is heavily identified with Wall Street, so blame could easily be shifted to those greedy Wall Street bankers, at least enough to obscure the true culprits. I further suspect the socialist rats responsible intend to use the recession brought about by their own deliberate malfeasance as a cover to transform the American free market, capitalistic model to a centrally controlled, socialistic one, with the attendant loss of individual freedoms such a transition has always entailed. Even more, I suspect the men and women responsible for all this are very uncomfortable with the idea of many milions of very pissed off people with guns. That's what I suspect, Mike. And no, I don't wear a tinfoil hat. I just follow the causal chain to its source and draw my own conclusions.

157 "Lovely. All of that hot air will help you save on heating bills"

There is no heat in my shack.

158

My $0.02 -

I've never felt the need for a gun until this month.  I've always wanted one, mostly along the thats-cool line of thought and the only piece I have ever owned is a non-functional bolt action shotgun installed above the fire place (bolt action shotguns - cool; tommy guns - cool), but now I feel the need to own one.  A functional one.  And to train my family in its use.

I feel for the people living in cities...if things go really bad with the economy or god forbid a terrorist attack on top of all this... people in cities will need guns desperately to protect their families from other people.

What this guy says is what I feel.  A Terrorist attack by itself and I don't think a firearm would even be remotely necessary last year; a severe Depression  added to that (or any other massive Katrina-like event) does and for his latter reason above.  I don't think alot of people saw this Depression/Recession coming and didn't prepare for it (gonna lose the job, the house, the car, everything); I don't really fear that the gang bangers or other lawless hoodlums and ne'er do wells will be running rampant in the street, but when I look at my son and two daughters I can easily empathize with another father who's at the point where he has to do something to provide for his family.

And that scares me.

Because I know what I'd do if I was standing in his shoes, and what I'd be capable of, and what it would finally take to stop me.

159 Posted by: troyriser at November 21, 2008 02:39 PM (NfkMy)

The same thought has occurred to me as well.

160 fucking sockpuppet!@H!@$H!

161 #156,

I am going to assume that you are leaving your anxiety or stress on the internet, but if that is what you really think you need to relax a little. We tried to spend more than we had and consume more than we produce and now we are going to pay for it. You can blame a bunch of people for the recession, but to claim that it was orchestrated by the Democratic party is absurd. There is no reason to fear Democrats. You may disagree with everything they intend to do, but there is no reason to fear them. I am not responsible for the economic crisis, but I do worry about you owning guns. You are in "there is no credit crisis" territory and leading the way for what will become the next Truther movement.

162

palooka wrote, 'Anyone who makes use of the police, fire department, public roads, or even a public water fountain makes use of socialism.'

lolwut? All community services everywhere are socialist? Who knew? Viva le revolucion, I guess.

163

  Let me give all the non-firearm owning AoSHQ regulars a little tip here to help them see where the rest of us are coming from:

  When we say "guns", substitute "midget porn", "collectible Star Trek plates" or "Christmas sampler packs of Val-U-Rite Discount vodka in festive flavors (like 'Turkey', 'Cranberry' or 'Pumpkin Pie')" into the sentence.  After all, would you like the government telling you how many Star Trek collectible plates you can acquire?  Will you be satisfied only having one or two midget porn DVD's to entertain you for the rest of your life?  Don't you think that having an extra bottle of Ham-flavored Val-U-Rite Discount Vodka around the house JUST in case you drink the first one & can't get to the store to buy another one (or God forbid - they stop making it) just MIGHT be a good idea?

  It's not as much about the "guns" as it is about people wanting to exercise a freedom explicitly mentioned in the Bill of Rights without having to get permission from some bureaucratic asshat first ........... although I have to admit that using your guns to make holes in things is a little intoxicating.

164 Russ, the problem is not buying the guns, it is burying them in the backyard to prepare for resistance during the impending war where the people who orchestrated the sub-prime mortgage crisis attempt to put people who bought guns into a concentration camp.

165 Why do gun owners worry you Mikey?

166

#161 says:  We tried to spend more than we had and consume more than we produce and now we are going to pay for it.

 

EXCUSE ME?  Hey I saved a hell of a lot.  I have not lived beyond my means.  What I am paying for is all you morons who did, and the democrat demagogues who helped you.  And I'm not fricking happy about it.

In a nation dangerously insane enough to elect a radical like Obama, I figure anyting is possible.  This was one thing responsible for my sea change in thinking about gones.  There is a mendacious lunacy free in the land...

doug

167 Mike, equating me with a truther is false equivalence. Fire melts steel, okay?  And so is your claim I said 'the credit crisis' as a Democratic Party invention, which is a straw man, too. I referred specifically to the subprime lending fiasco, not the credit crisis, which has also been bubbling for a long time and needed only a triggering event to get it rolling. The facts are these: Barney Frank, Christopher Dodds, and Barack Obama are the leading beneficiaries of Fannie Mae contributions. Rahm Emanuel was a director of Freddie Mac. So Franks, Dodds, and Emanuel, especially, were in a position to know just how dire things could get--they were warned repeatedly and all exercised a measure of oversight over those institutions. Franks was/is literally sleeping with a Fannie Mae (or Freddie Mac) executive. Dodds and Franks fought every attempt to curtail their excesses. Recently, Rahm Emanuel remarked on the convenience of events like a recession to 'get things done'. Why, for example, was news of the subprime crisis released when it was, at a conveniently perfect moment for the Obama campaign? And so on. So don't for a moment attempt to pigeonhole me as a conspiratorial nutcase. It doesn't wash. And whether or not I own guns is none of your business, but let me put it this way: I am a graduate of the XVIII Airborne Corps Sniper and Recondo schools, and could trim a bushy mustache at 300 meters with a glass-packed M14 with scope. And while considerably older, I'm still not half-bad.

168 And allow me to clarify one more thing, Mike: I did not claim the Democratic Party engineered anything. I contend Democratic Party leadership has been suborned by its far-left fringe. The only GOP equivalent to such a coup would be if Patrick 'Hitler was a great man' Buchanan and his AIPAC-baiting pals took over the RNC. I grew up in a Democratic household. My UAW member grandfather was buried with an FDR campaign button on his lapel. So no, nothing against the Democratic Party per se. It's the socialist cabal now running it with whom I have issues.

169 No 7.62x39 ammo at G-mountain in Scranton on Wednesday. Well, after I left!

170

Purple Avenger, permit me to suggest that if it is time to bury them, it is time to dig them up.

III

171 Gun owners do not worry me. There is a strain of thought that is developing in the right wing of the right wing that bothers me a little though.

-Rejection of intellectual curiosity
-Fear of communists
-Belief that members of the middle and working class should unite as one large entity to hold off the socialists/communists. Seething class resentment
-A little too militaristic. A little too much nationalism.
-Inability to accept responsibility for mistakes and scapegoating others when things go wrong

This sort of attitude is harmless, but it would probably become an issue if the economy was in really bad shape for a long time. I doubt it will ever be an issue, but capitalism could fail. 

172

In the past month, I have purchased my first handgun, joined the NRA, taken concealed carry class, and purchased my second handgun.

Bad economic times put people out of work, and some of those take to crime.  A rash of burgleries in my neighborhood convinced me.   I had never felt the need to own a pistol or conceal, but the prospect of increased crime and the certainty that this new adminstriation will make it harder for me to protect myself and my family is all the motivation I needed.

"I carry a gun becase a cop is too heavy."

"When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away."

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."

173

Question of the day;

Is "Mike" a normal troll, a special Moby, or an Axlerodder?

174

Gee, Mike, loved those 'rejection of intellectual curiosity' and 'fear of communism' bullet points. Now, about that 'intellectual curiosity' business. Seems to me you're the one refusing to engage here. And where have I heard that 'fear of communism' line before? No, wait: the line was '...inordinate fear of communism.'

Jimmy, is that you?

175 " So no, nothing against the Democratic Party per se."

Fair enough. It sounded like you thought high ranking members of the democratic party triggered the event. I doubt anyone would risk the economy to win an election and there is no way anyone would think they could get away with it. There is plenty of blame to go around.

176 I just bought an M1 Garand from a guy at work today. I also plan to acquire a large hoard of Warsaw-pact hardware in 7.62x39, an AR-15 or two, and more handguns before the end of the year, along with many thousands of rounds of ammo.

177 "Jimmy, is that you?"

Probably, I used to sock-puppet/troll this blog all the time. It kind of blew up in my face though so I have decided to stop.

178 "Is "Mike" a normal troll"

Normal troll.

179 Mike, I did say high ranking members of the Democratic Party triggered the event--or rather, did their level best to make it happen; i.e., the subprime lending crisis, and then timed release of news of that crisis to generate a crucial election boost to Barack Obama. I draw a distinction between high-level elected and appointed leadership--Obama, Emanuel, Franks, Dodds, et al--and the rank-and-file. The blame for allowing the subprime monster to gestate lies with Republican politicians and private sector executives who saw it coming and yet did nothing or not nearly enough to forestall or prevent it. For godssakes, some of these corpoate and governmental entitites had mainframe supercomputers at their disposal, along with armies of analysts, and claim they were caught flat-footed? I don't buy it, not for a moment.

180

Rejection of intellectual curiosity

I laughed out loud, well, it was more of a chuckle really, an anti-intellectual snort.

181 Go ahead and laugh if you want, but someone said he thought Palin would do a good job because she was not very smart. I have no opinion on Palin or her level of intelligence, but that is the worst argument anyone has ever made on behalf of a politician.

182

but that is the worst argument anyone has ever made on behalf of a politician.

  I think David Axelrod might disagree with that statement, Mike.

183 Why?

184

Russ, the problem is not buying the guns, it is burying them in the backyard to prepare for resistance during the impending war where the people who orchestrated the sub-prime mortgage crisis attempt to put people who bought guns into a concentration camp.

 

  I'll assume that you're sincere here, Mike, and share my rebuttal to your statement.

  Burying guns in the backyard:  Yeah, it's a cliche.  So what?  It's just an exaggerated way of saying "keep them in the back of the closet", "hide them in the attic" or "stash 'em all out at Grandpa's farmhouse, in a "red" state where there won't be as many people looking for them".  Burying a gun in your yard isn't the same thing as renting a Ryder truck & filling in with ammonium nitrate, so please stop trying to equate those actions with each other.

  The people who orchestrated the subprime mortgage crisis:  Well, unless I'm completely fucked, the people who promoted sub-prime mortgages and arranged for the Government to "hold a gun to the head" of big banks "encouraging" them to make more of these stinking turds to people who couldn't pay them back DO belong to the same party as the new White House chief of staff.  You know, the guy who was just quoted as saying "never let a crisis go to waste"?  You don't think they want to grab up all the guns held by private citizens in America?  I don't think it's about the will to grab them; it's more about the ability to grab them and still hold on to power.  It might be a LITTLE paranoid, but I don't think it's too big of a reach to assume that these economic problems will be used by our new overlords to do a lot of things that would have been unthinkable a few years ago.

  Putting gun owners in concentration camps:  Yeah, it's pretty far out there - but before you completely rule it out, maybe you should run down to Barnes & Noble to see if you can get a copy of Bill Ayres' book "Prairie Fire".  You remember Bill Ayres, don't you?  "Just another guy from Obama's neighborhood"?  Who liked to build bombs.  And had wet dreams about putting 25 million Americans in "death camps" during the Maoist takeover of America.  Obama would NEVER use any of his ideas, right?

  While I may agree with you that some of the "Red Dawn" talk going on among the Political Right is paranoid, I'll have to disagree that they're completely disassociated from reality.  Sometimes, "they" really ARE out to get you.

185

Why?

  One word:  change.  Trading my Explorer in on a nice used Yugo is "change", but I wouldn't call it a smart move.

186 I am not comparing anyone here to Timothy McVeigh. I do not understand why people are so worried about communism. They may add something like national healthcare during the recession, but the idea that republicans, democrats or independents are out to get you does seem a little paranoid.

"Sometimes, "they" really ARE out to get you."

Now I am paranoid. Is someone out to get me?

187

-Rejection of intellectual curiosity

Nobody on this blog could seriously be accused of being incurious.
-Fear of communists

Is that like fear of Nazis?

-Belief that members of the middle and working class should unite as one large entity to hold off the socialists/communists.

In the political sense, I am looking for any ally to band together with and hold of socialism

Seething class resentment

Not real sure about,"seething" but resentment may be a natural response to sneering disdain.

-A little too militaristic. A little too much nationalism.

Whatever that means.

-Inability to accept responsibility for mistakes and scapegoating others when things go wrong

You mean like the sub-prime mess? It's not scapegoating to trace the problem to it's roots.

. 

188 Forget the 15 day waiting periods instant background checks and forget the stupid one gun a month get a gun and no one stupid papers to fill out

189 #187,
I am not accusing people on this blog of being incurious or unintelligent. The people who decided they would not vote for Obama because they thought he was a Muslim...I think they are a little dim.

There is no single source to blame the economic problems on. Some people did not pay the mortgages that banks bet on and we are all going to pay for it. You can blame the individual, the lender, the people responsible for regulation and the banks or any combination and it will not change anything. As a country we were spending more than we made and consuming more than we produced and it was going to end eventually.

190 I am not accusing people on this blog of being incurious or unintelligent. The people who decided they would not vote for Obama because they thought he was a Muslim...I think they are a little dim.

Posted by: Mike at November 21, 2008 06:08 PM (GNCy6)

I think he is just a socialist, but he was raised as a Muslim and has been very secretive about any of his records being released so such suspicions are not totally unfounded.

191 Seattle Slough and mike....ah, the sounds of beta nellies in the morning.
   we "gun clingers" are coming for you wusses first...

 and for the liberal trolls to be worried about christmas presents?? gads....are you kidding, didn't anyone notice how ironic that is?

192 Retail spending is pretty important to the economy. Why is that ironic?

193 I will be buying a pistol or a rifle as soon as I get my tax return next year. I was going to use it to pay off 1 credit card, but at this rate Citibank may tank and I'll be off the hook by default. My liberty and freedom...that demands some support right now. Plus, if Teh Obamessiah bumbles the next national disaster ro come along, we may get Zombie Movie or MAd Max time...and then that is when a boomstick comes in handy.

I am prepared for gun-grabbers in a different way. Thanks to years of Renaissance Festival attending, I have enough daggers, swords, axes, and polearms to outfit a good-sized D&D party. When the PC Obamabot brownshirts show up (after the gun ban) with their ACLU-approved megaphones & "non-lethal" hand weapons, I am going to meet 'em half-way with a halberd. 

194 A halberd?

195 exdem, why not just zap 'em with a LIGHTNING BOLT!

196 In many ways, nothing beats the old trusty sharpened stick, in its various forms. 

197

Yeah, Mike, fuck you and your labrador.

I knew you'd be back.

Troyriser has said it correctly.

 

198 The Elect-Him Quick!-Media hid his record in order to get him elected but conservatives know about Obama's Illinois voting record from the NRA, etc.--that's why they are buying guns.

Obama supported every kind of gun-control you can think of. trigger locks. criminalizing the purchase of more than one gun in a month. against make-my-day laws. against conceal/carry. even against letting sportsmens buy shotgun pellets to be used at competitions.

He just hid his "Assault weapons" ban, removing it from his website. His campaign formulation was 'i won't take your guns. Even if I wanted to, I don't have the votes.'--that's hardly reassuring.

He agreed with the DC ban. When the Court struck it down, he said he agreed with the Court, or more precisely, the Court agreed with him. Again, not reassuring to law-abiding gun owners.

The Constitution limits GOVERNMENT. It doesn't "grant" citizens a right to bear arms--it recognizes that citizens already had a pre-existing natural right to self-defense and the government was forbidden to steal that right away from them. It also keeps any government from going too far. Many a would-be American dictator, both foreign and domestic, have choked on the fact of a free and armed citizenry.

It's amusing that all the nuts who called Bush & Cheney "dictators" also wanted to empower them to seize all the guns.

199 Besides, liberals don't need guns--they just hired Obama to rob people for them with a fully-automatic tax code.

200

 Here in Florida, the State passed a law that you can shoot people in defense of your or your neighbor’s property. (Used to be you could only shoot someone inside your house and you were scared for your life).

  Also a concealed carry permit is fairly easy to get, as it should be.

ONLY THE LIBERAL PUSSIES ARE SUPPRISED THAT THE CRIME RATE HAS PLUMETED!

Sadly, our fellow Americans have elected a Liberal President, whose recent life experience is "Urban Chicago", where the gangs and dumb asses murder each other everyday.

 And since this man's only experience is as a Community Organizer in a freaking urban crime environment. The liberal from Chicago has vowed to get rid of the evil guns.

The Second Amendment be dammed.

No wonder Americans are concerned. As they should be.

 

201 Mike:

I do not understand why people are so worried about communism

Hold a seance and ask the victims of communists. You might want to set aside a fair bit of time, they do count well into 9 digits.

The question itself, in fact, suggests a naivete or stupidity so bottomless as to be literally unfathomable.

Or, more likely, disingenuousness. What a sad life.

202 No, no, no, motherfucking no on the cosmoline. The shit takes forever to get off.

Wipe the metal down with a good thick coat of BreakFree CLP, and throw a lot of moisture absorbers in the sealed PVC pipe with the weapon and the ammo. Don't load too many mags since you don't want your mag springs to take a set and lose tension.

203

"I do not understand why people are so worried about communism"

--Uh... Because every country that's tried it has experienced economic stagnation, ranging from mild in squishy-socialist Western Europe to extreme in full-on-Communist China and the USSR?  (Note that China's economic boom began after they started walking back Communist economic policies.  Also note that Communists caused tens of millions of Ukranians to starve to death withing ten years of a time in which the Ukrane was a major exporter of foodstuffs.)  Basically, Capitalism doesn't always work perfectly, but so far as I know Communism has ALWAYS failed, and often failed miserably.

#161  "There is no reason to fear Democrats."

--So you're saying that their bad policies won't have bad effects?  Remember, we don't oppose Democrats just because they're Democrats, we oppose them because we think their policy prescriptions are bad and will exacerbate many of the problems our nation faces.  To us, stating we have no reason to fear the Democrats is like saying we have no reason to fear the new bus driver who has just stated his intention to drive the bus off the side of the bridge in the belief that this will cause it to sprout wings and fly. 

That said, I do think there is a certain amount of counterproductive paranoia on this blog since the election, especially in the comments.  The Democrats are a politcal party.  They operate in the political arena and work to influence public opinion and change laws.  The Conservative movement has recently been struggling in the legislative arena and mostly MIA in the realm of public opinion.  The way to beat the Democrats isn't to hoard guns, because if we need guns, we've already lost, because we will have destroyed or badly damaged the whole ideas of an "orderly transition of power" and "a government of laws, not men."  The way to actually win is to convincingly and publicly articulate conservative ideas, ideals, and solutions.  When enough of the citizens are convinced, the government will follow.

204

Christmasghost #39

Red Dawn is one of my favorite movies of all time (kinda like Road House).  If you like that kind of thing check out the Out of the Ashes books by William W Johnstone.  Its starting to seem a little creepy a bout now.

205

Back row guy 51

You've never owned a weapon?

What do you cut your meat with-turkey?

Do you play crickit?  Do you have a sticky wicket?

 

But seriously- its just a guess on my part but if you are European I'm pretty sure some gun-obsessed Americans-at some point- kicked some killing-obsessed nazis out of your country.  You're welcome.

Since I was talking about favorite movies how about two real good ones starring Gary Cooper: High Noon and Sergeant York.  Americans are special-no brag, just fact.

 

What's up with your obsession with inbred kings and queens since we are sharing ?  Prince Harry is the only royal I've seen lately who is worth a damn.

206

Nightwitch 65

If I had a vagina I'd go on disability from Carpal Tunnel...

 

Don't worry, Eric Holder will push for legislation that makes sure that all new vaginas come with a safety lock.  You can get yours at Planned Parenthood.

207

#203, ya, what is with the communism thing in the first place? Obama is not a communist, he is the president. You do not need to fear him.

btw, if you are who I think you are, would you please cut the "crazy" nonsense out. It is bothering people, please stop or at least update them on the situation you do not understand.

208 I love that lefties actually think redneck flyover gun-nut Jesus freak Americans give a shit what they're nattering on about other than in identifying things we'll likely have to eventually fix/repeal/correct/ or suffer for. Yeah, free fucking Tibet...Right after the great overland invasion of Pakistan to get Osam...Obama elected. Right?

I've been playing my two-bit part by actively redistributing the evil fruit of my archaic labor away from Hollywood, lib media (I repeat myself), and whatever other foreign origin products I can manage to avoid. I've taken to doing this ever since nearly half of the voters of this country thought it would be a grand idea to elect Kerry/Edwards to the highest offices of the land. My disposable income has been re-tasked toward owning firearms, supporting religion, and investing in consumer products made in "god damned America". Fuck the Chinese 'economy' and fuck the institutionalized democrat party welfare taxes they pretend their various 'non-partisan' organizations aren't busily redistributing for our own good...For the children they haven't managed to abort yet.

Hell yeah I'm bitterly disengaged. I have no use for pantywaists who claim they don't know what's been going on. The free lunch crowd can get fucking stuffed...And they will like a Thanksgiving tofurkey.

Their ummm...Eloquent halfrican amerikan halfwit commie jesus won and they still can't shut the fuck up about how dastardly the racist imperialistic people and their pesky Constitution are, or how badly they want need to "change" the formula that has literally saved a space for Liberty and financial independence in this world full of nuclearizing caudillos and disarmed serfs. These useless idiots openly cheer those who work to disappear change several fundamental rights of U.S. citizens yet have no problem extending suddenly important Constitutional rights to foreign and domestic enemies who spit upon said rights when they're not busily getting away with bombing those who extol them.

That's reason enough to arm up in my book.  It's not as if there isn't plenty of historical precedent to draw from.

Oh, and for those who may want to lay your grubby redistributionist hands on my stuff you poor economic hippie retards? No dice jackasses; move-on along to the foreclosed McMansion down the street with the Obama-emblazoned Prius parked right next to the Excursion with the 'No War For Oil' sticker.There be firearms in this debt averse household.

Don't like my guns?
Then don't try to own my fucking guns. You are free to sit on your ass and wait for the "authorities" to save it if you please. They're just minutes away.

How's that for reaching across the political divide?

209 #207:

That's a pretty pathetic diversion, Mike.

Or did you fail to notice that all of your posts have an identifying code at the end, so it doesn't matter what you call yourself, we know it was you who brought up communism and then tried, feebly, to bash others for talking about it.

That's some pretty dumb shit right there, Clem Cadiddlehopper.

210 Hey!!!! For the record, I. am. not. THAT Mike. I am Vegas Mike. Please differentiate. Thank you. must. drink. more.

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