1

Dems canceled the vote for Auto Bailout. Which means they currently don’t have the votes to ram it through. They’ll have to wait until January.

2 I ran screeching from the room when Judy Woodruff started in on Rick Wagoner  in a segment on Newshour:

"One of the thrusts of these questions is, why should we help the American auto industry when you were -- for so long, you refused to do the kind of retooling to make the kind of cars that the American people need and want?"

I heard this while still within reach of her voice:

"But I think a big part of the criticism is that it took so long for the industry to begin to take this seriously, the need to move in a fuel-efficient direction."

Journalists do nothing to educate the public on the issues before us if they are morons themselves.

That Wagoner did not explain what the real problem is, is more than sufficient justification for seeking his removal before the company gets one blue cent of Congress' money. (/sarc on that last part)

3 Finally, a reprieve.

4 I'm in the middle on this. Meaning, if the auto companies don't get bailed out, I'm fucked, but I see/agree with the side that says we shouldn't throw money into a black hole.

But, picking on the executives for flying private jets to DC is a tad disingenuous. Our country's in debt, yet politicians like Nancy Pelosi isn't flying coach (or even on her dime, which she could afford. )

Beside, compensation for the auto executives pales when compared to that of AIG (which suspended bonuses AFTER they received the bailout, not before). Cassano (who left in Feb) took with him $34 million and a $1 mill per month consultant fee.

GM CE made $15.7 million in 2007. Cessano made half that much consulting!

5 The auto company bailout is just an excuse to keep the UAW in power and voting for democrats. Hopefully, they will all fail before the union thugs get to Obama, but I expect that they will pay him a courtesy call and explain how the bailout is in the country's best interest very soon.

6 Obama doesn't have the balls to let the UAW down. If I weren't so invested in the outcome, it would be rather entertaining.

How about Waxman kicking out Dingleberry? A big FU to Michigan Union voters.

7 Carin @ 4
I'm in the middle on this. Meaning, if the auto companies don't get bailed out, I'm fucked, but I see/agree with the side that says we shouldn't throw money into a black hole.
 
I feel your pain. Hubby works at a GM dealership and we're looking to be pretty damn fucked here financially and very, very soon.

But I'm still not in favor of a bailout. Fuck the UAW, the greedy extortionist bastards that they are deserve to lose it all when the auto companies go down. They've had the industry over a barrel and continue to monetarily rape them at their own peril. It's just a shame that a lot of honest people are going to go down with it.

8 It's funny to see so many people pretending that the country's best interest is really first and foremost in Democrats', hell, all politicians' minds.

This bailout will happen, as will each and every other bail-out that is presented to the new administration, because a) it isn't their money and b) it's all about attaining and maintaining power.  Nothing more, nothing less.  And if a few 100 billion here and there helps market hat happen, well, hell, take all you need, boys!  We'll just print more.

9 But, picking on the executives for flying private jets to DC is a tad disingenuous. Our country's in debt, yet politicians like Nancy Pelosi isn't flying coach (or even on her dime, which she could afford. )

I agree that Pelosi's actions and the AIG nonsense are just as, if not more, irritating but two wrongs and all that...

What amazes me about the decision by the executives is that no one was willing to say 'wait a minute here...this looks bad.'  It's almost as though they were deliberately trying to undermine their own message and may cost them the bailout, since that sort of thing resonates with Americans inclined to call their congressmen.

10 As with the example several threads back of how the bailout is just donating blood to someone whose arm is chopped off (and still bleeding), I think the bailout can also be seen as just an "in-kind" contribution to the unions.

After all, if the bailout passes, where does the money go? To prop up the unions at the rate of $29 per hour per union employee.

11 I haven't seen any indication that the US automakers are in a really serious crunch.  If they were,  they'd be slashing prices on their inventory to raise capital.  Just the same old offers.  Yawn.  It's money handin' out time in DC so they're just along for the ride.

Screw the UAW.  They're killing the cow instead of drinking the milk.  I'm really sorry,  but a guy bolting part A onto part B does not deserve a $65,000 salary.

Screw the automakers.  They've moved way too damn slow to right to work states and have coddled the UAW for far too long.  I really like Ford products but it pisses me off when I buy one of their cars that part of the money coming out of my pocket pays for some tub of lard union slug to sit on his fat ass.

12

Judy Woodruff, hahahahaha, isn’t she NBC?

 

It has been evident for a long time that one can not depend on the new media to tell you the truth. That is basically for two reasons. First most of the news media now are nothing more than news readers who depend on someone else to prepare copy for them. The people who prepare the copy, in both the print and TV news depend on an AP reporter (mostly) to actually dig up the stories.  The AP reporters have been found to be notoriously unreliable because they are biased, and in the case of foreign stringers, actively anti-US. In addition to the AP reports being trash and in some cases out right lies, once compiled a news producer must go through and choose which stories the news reader will read. This gets the second level of liberal bias into the mix. Not only did the first AP reporter insert his bias biut now the producer gives it another run to make even more liberal.

 

The second reason you don’t get the truth, is that nowhere in this process that sifts out the news that they decide you are going to see is an review by someone who is a real expert on the subject being discussed. For example, in this issue dealing with replacement of  capitalism with communism in the auto industry even if the news wanted to do the so called “fair and balanced” approach what they would do is put up an auto exec, a communist Democrap. And a squishy liberal Republican to debate it. If they wanted to add an economist they wuold gives us someone like Krugman.

 

The news readers and reporters for the AP will all have journalism degrees which is probably even less than education degrees in actually teaching real knowledge.

 

So what happens in the long run is that the average person is the public is fed bullshit propaganda and is free to vote for the communist of their choice.

13 The automakers are hungry? Well, let them eat cake then.

14

Hopefully, they will all fail before the union thugs get to Obama, but I expect that they will pay him a courtesy call and explain how the bailout is in the country's best interest very soon.

They don't need to do that.  He's already in lockstep with them.

15

From the Financial Times:

“There’s a core group of eight or 10 Republican senators who are sitting down with their colleagues and saying: ‘Why should the workers in my state who are making $35 or $40 an hour bail out people in Detroit who are making $70 an hour?’” said Mike Franc at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think-tank in Washington.

16 HOnestly, I don't understand why the focus is on Republicans who won't go along with the bailout. Why the fuck should they? The UAW gave how much to Obama's campaign? Michigan is a blue state, with blue senators and (mostly) blue mayors.

And, Jennifer Granholm can't even trouble herself to go to Washington over the issue. She's in Israel. Hunting up cool jobs for her cool cities, don't you know.

17 There’s a core group of eight or 10 Republican senators

8 or 10?  Well, problem solved, then.

18 Screw the unions. Collectivism kills.

19 Psst...Obama...It's Called "Capitalism" Evilism!!11!!1

20 >A Dartmouth economist<

Sorry, Obama only uses Columbia economists...just saying

21 A bit of hope:

This is happening at the BEGINNING of Obama's term.  Thus, a quick fix politically expedient response is less likely because the after effects of a downturn in the economy (for the reasons cited by the author above) will kick in just prior to the next general election.

It's easy to mortgage the future when the future is someone else's to worry about.  But I suspect Obama will actually have to fully weigh the actual effects, because they will be on his shoulders.

Having to make tough decisions rather than mere rhetoric - life's a bitch sometimes.

22 But isn't it wonderful how President-Elect Obama has gotten out in front on this issue and demonstrated his amazing leadership skills? </sarc>

23

It's easy to mortgage the future when the future is someone else's to worry about. 

 

Yes, one of the main reasons that everything is so fucked up now is that LBJ mortgaged the future and SS with his great society.

24

And every single president and every single congress since then has followed suit to one degree or another.

Except Clinton, I guess. And he got luckier than a dog with two dicks.

25 As bad as bailing out the Big 3 will be, at least it will be on The Precious' watch.  He will own it.  And he deserves it.

26 Hey, I like that as Obama's nickname - President Precious.

27

I dont think Obama or the Dems can afford not to bail out the car companies (really the unions).  I work with the big three on their non competitive research and their management knows full well that the real problem is the cost of their labor contracts.  Part of their cost is legacy costs (pensions).  For every employee the big three has, they have 2 more that they are paying that are retired.

Filling Chapter 11 may be the only real way out for the automakers.  That would allow them to restructure and renegotiate their contracts (including the contractrs with the unions) and shed some of their debts.  The problem with that is once that happens, the federal government will take over the pensions (if I understand the rules, I am an engineer not a lawyer) and WE will have to pay anyway.

I hate to say it, but maybe the car companies cant afford the bailout.  They may need to go into bankruptcy in order to survive.

28 Personally, I think Detroit has been building what America wanted to buy for a long time. 

The problem has been that, partly for cost reasons of course, they didn't also build what America wasn't buying.   The Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit/Jazz were basically showroom throwaways until gas hit $3/gallon. 

And, of course, GM had the EV1 a decade ago - admittedly a high-cost, low-volume item - but they binned the whole project when the California ZEV mandate went away instead of 'productionizing' the battery technology and powertrain electronics that would have made something like the Volt series-hybrid practical five years ago. 

Maintaining a full line of product is an extra burden when market conditions are fairly static, but a lifesaver when market conditions change. 

Personally, of all the vehicles on the market (and admittedly I've got a penchant for thirsty ones) an awful lot of what I'd actually buy are GM product. 

29

IT’S THE FUCKING OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT ELECT!!!  

 

 Get it right.

30

#29,

And it's got its own seal. At least for Barry it does.

31 Actually, I'm pretty sure the real plan is to forcibly unionize everyone else.

Then cars double in price and away we go...

32 My husband works at Delta Airlines. A few years ago, they had to file chapter 11. Now they are one of the world's strongest airlines. Filing chapter 11 does not mean the end of the world.

33 Well, of course.  Chapter 11 is the only way Detroit could get out from under its ridiculous union contracts.

Bad for the fools who owned stock, but good -- perhaps -- for dealers and so on.

34

I have a question for the President Elect:

What does the work product of a constitutional law professor look like?

Follow up:

Is a work product of zero published papers sustainable for a constitutional law professor?

35 I like this scenario better, Fed buy them out, force them into Chapter 7.

36 UAW president Gettelfinger speaking now...cocking the gun held to the head of the taxpayer

37

The Volt will NEVER be a viable mass produced vehicle. The last estimates I saw were 50K for a piece of shit that is half the car you get with the cheapest car on the market today.

 

I predict that as soon as the subsidies for research and production disappear, the volt will too.

38 I am changing my name to Chrysler I am going down to Washington DC I will tell some power broker what they did for Iacocca will be perfectly acceptable for me I am changing my name to Chrysler I am headed for that great receiving line So when they hand a million grand out I'll be standing with my hand out Yes sir, I'll get mine

39 Damn. Completely ate my formatting.

40 My husband works at Delta Airlines. A few years ago, they had to file chapter 11. Now they are one of the world's strongest airlines. Filing chapter 11 does not mean the end of the world.

Would you buy a car from a company filing Chapter 11? Spending $30,000 on something that may end up w/o a warranty is a tad risker than purchasing a plane ticket two weeks in advanced.

41 And, to state the obvious, if no one buys a car ...

42 Has anybody else noticed that the Democrats are hell bent on bankrupting an industry that makes a profit of $38 billion and then some, whether the price of crude is high or low,  yet these same Democrats see nothing wrong with screwing the taxpayers out of $50 billion to bailout an industry that has a stock value of maybe $7 billion combined, and debts? Ford has $160 billion in debt with negative equity, while GM has about $60 billion in debt and a negative net worth on a book basis of $56 billion!

43 "if no one buys a car ..."

The planet is saved!  All hail the Obamamessiah!

Unions aside, the death of private automobile ownership in America will please a lot of people.

44 Hyperinflation ... here we come.

45

Obam wouldn’t know capitalism if it came up and boxed his ears. The only thing Obama knows is socialism. Its all he has ever been exposed to and its all he has ever cared about. His focus is on the usurpation of the existing natural order through the administering of "social justice".

 

More AT;

http://www.hostileopposition.blogspot.com

46 I bought a new GM car once. In 18 months, it had been in for repair 6 times. The rear brakes went out twice, both the drivers side, and passenger power window actually fell into the door after their respective mechanisms failed.  The car had so many electrical problems, it'd take all day to write them down. It also had a nasty habit of setting the idle at 1500 rpm in the winter time

Such was the Chevy Beretta of 1988.

I did just buy a GMC Sierra, I got an awesome deal on it, at least on paper it is. Time will tell. I wish it were a Toyota though.

47 Ohio built Honda/Acuras ftw. Screw Michigan and their piss poor assembly skills.

If you build crap cars and overpay your workers, you are going to fail. No amount of bailouts from the feds will ever fix that problem. The auto bailout is simply a stop gap to kick the problem two years down the road, on my dime.  Why?

48 The interesting thing is if BO is really as smart as they want us to believe.

If he is, he's going to realize very quickly that despite his preference for far left/socialist answers, he needs to govern as a middle right President while spewing hopeychangey words for his base, if he wants his presidency to be a success.

I'm betting that he's not particularly smart and that's why we haven't seen him lately.

Backstage he's probably getting all kinds of "look, I understand that what you want to do, Mr President-Elect, I want it too! But if we do it, the economy crashes." type of advice and the little precious is all in a blue funk.

49

Don't just blame the UAW, the whole industry is broken ..

"the Japanese automaker’s top ten execs earned less money COMBINED than Ford’s Alan Mulally, Chrysler’s Bob Nardelli and GM’s Rick Wagoner (individually). In fact ALL of Toyota’s execs together earned 3.92b yen. That’s $40.5m."

Anyone else have an issue with overpaid execs for companies that aren't making money asking for money from Joe the Plumbers paycheck, or lack thereof?

Bankruptcy, reorg time!!!  Fix your $#@$ing company and get back to me.

50 This $25 Billion bailout would be an easier crap sandwich to take if It came with a few provisions. For example the money should be partially spent on buying out some of the Big 3 local dealers. Franchise laws to most states protect these dealers from most changes. Having a metric shitload of cash to clean up some of the dealer over-saturation would be a huge start.

That isn't to say the Franchise laws are bad, they protect a lot of good folks from getting fucked over by some MBA idiot or old prick in charge of setting up Dealers. I can attest to this personally, my family business (Motorsports) has had to deal with one of these mistakes just before the economy went south.

51 GM has certainly earned a bailout.  For the past 10 years they've been spreading the wealth like crazy.  Now its time for them to call in all those hopey changey  markers.

52

Kit Bond, R-Mo is joining the Dems for a “bi-partisan” reach-around” for the auto bailout.http://tinyurl.com/632lvc

 

Somebody else that needs to be purged.  

53 This is a capitalist nation.  We are founded on an almost Darwinian principle in business practices.  Sink or swim, the stronger companies will outlast the older ones, making way for new ideas to be brought forth.  If the illuminati democrats want to go around propping up that which should be let alone to die, I fear for the future of this country.

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