1

What do you expect them to do?  I don't see this as a big deal, but I don't think they should get a bailout either.  I think this story's angle was written with a little bit of class-warfare injected into it. 

2

Why shouldn’t they? The eco-idiots all flew in private jets to that last eco-idiot globull warming conference.  The news on the radio this morning had the Vomit on there talking about AGW and how the U.S. was going to take ‘active measures” to redeem our reputation.

 

Yes, we will become more socialist with more taxes and more handouts. That will fix globull warming and then they can take credit for the cooling that is already occurring.

3 This is utter idiocy. Bankruptcy is the answer, not a "bailout". Like most sane people in this country I am sick and tired of incompetent, narcissistic billionaires and greedy labor unions stealing my hard earned money. Restructuring just might lead to a sensible and profitable auto industry; if not, so be it. This simply cannot be made to go away . . . pain is a natural ingredient in the healing process. The American auto industry in its present form is incompetent, irresponsible, irrational, crooked and rotten to the core.

4 "I wish I had a hundred snazzy corporate jets to sell,  but I only got the one here,  not countin' the others. And that would just be a drop in the bucket.  We need serious money.  Not weekend whore money."

5 If you make the kind of money they do, it makes complete sense to travel by private jet. TIme = money. Why waste it sitting around Detroit Metro waiting for your Northwest flight to be canceled?

This isn't a problem, one way or the other. But the whole idea of a bailout is absurd, since, like the guy who sells quarters for twenty-two cents but "makes it up on volume," every car the Big Three sells loses money.

There's nothing to "bail" out. The boat already sunk. Let the thing sit on the bottom of the ocean floor already where the fishes can scavenger it clean of bones and barnacles.

6 Doesn't fewer cars mean less carbon emissions?  Doesn't Baracky care about the polar bears?

7 Were they traveling with that famous ecologist and earth-savior Al Gore?

Give a loan to a U.S. company?  Hardly a proper investment in the U.S. economy... especially when that money is needed in places like Iraq or Somalia or Pakistan.

How about if the federal government did it's job and didn't let the banking and investment sector screw up the economy so badly that businesses everywhere are in trouble?  No, it's easier for Sen. Bawdy Fwank to blame manufacturers for screwing up.

If the federal government had done as much restructuring and cost cutting as the automotive industry over the past 5 years, we'd all be getting a huge tax cut.

8

If those folks need a bailout, then I really need a bailout. I can't even afford to charter a private jet for an hour. I'd be irresponsible to buy first class tickets, if I were flying somewhere. Clearly, I need the bailout a lot more than these guys do, so I can have my own private jet.

The government's going to make everything fair, right?

9 It's only a PR problem if they don't get the bailout. If they do, it'll be the best investment of corporate excess they'll make in their lives.

Such is the criminal enterprise that is industrial-strength lobbying. The tiniest of investments can yield almost immeasurable returns. I'll hope the bailouts don't happen but won't be surprised if they do. Why would anyone be surprised? It's exactly what "representative government" has been for quite some time. It's just the scale of it all that is so stunning though not at all unexpected.

And yet we keep recycling these "leaders" like we expect them to behave differently between handouts and elections. They've trained us quite well, thank you very much.

10 Perhaps I'm clueless, but what are they asking for anyway? Cash to "get them over the hump" ? What good will that do, they're still going to lose money on the few cars they sell.
Bankruptcy is a possibility, but not a great one, because it'll really hurt their ability to sell. One reason is the warranty. It's carried on the books as an unbacked liability, and bankruptcy means that it gets discharged. everyone who bought a GM vehicle will be screwed. Try selling a car when the buyer thinks it's going to break down and not get fixed.
The upside to bankruptcy is that maybe it'll allow the UAW to get those horrid contracts abrogated, and I'm sure we've all seen the quote from the UAW head that they will not budge one bit on their contracts if there's a bailout.
I cannot countenance my tax money going into the pockets of the UAW. Face facts, no assembly line worker is worth what they're being paid.

11
Here's THE FIX:

They bail out the big three giving them plenty of money to hold them through the next six months or so while buying enough control to force them to all build Smart cars. Then they pass card check that gets the others like Honda and Toyota saddled with the same insane unions. Then it's all fair like and nobody can make any money. Then they pass national health care so they can claim they are saving all those companies, but of course the union contracts won't be renegotiated and there won't be a full size car that anyone other than a millionaire or government agency can afford. So then there's still no profit in any car company, so there's more buy fail bail out, to protect the unions. Then the entire American automotive industry turns into British fucking Leyland.

Congress: Hey we gotta protect our phoney-baloney jobs!

12

They should all take public jets and sell the corporate jets as Sarah did.  Yes, they make big bucks but are they earning it?  In the case of these big shots every hour they work is another few million dollars loss. Perhaps they should use some of that “time” for traveling.

 

They need to go into chapter 11 so they can restructure without the unions. I noted that a union spokesman said they had already given major “concessions”. Hahahahaha, they are still making $77/hr  total compensation for essentially unskilled labor. That ios almost as good as an NRC inspector doing an audit for which they charge $175/hr to the plant, per inspector. (3 years ago probably higher now)

 

And the liberals claim the government subsidizes Nuclear Power.

13

This closely resembles that Alaska senator's insistence on running for re-election with so much to lose and only one term to gain: Ego, man, ego. It prevents you from seeing things as others see them.

 

Too bad none of these execs followed Harvey Mackay's advice in his 20-year-old book, How to Swim With the Sharks Without Getting Eaten Alive. In it, he told the story of a man who returned from a tropical vacation with a perfect suntan everywhere but his face. When asked why, he said he had to go before a legislative body just after his return, and he knew his chances of getting a subsidy would plunge if he had a visible tan.

14 They don't need to concern themselves with appearances. They're going to get the money in January, no matter what they do. It's a done deal.

15 Say we bail out the big 3. What changes? What happens when the bailout money runs out? Same boat as before.
I think the saying is throwing good money after bad.

16

I was right, they have greatly increased it.http://tinyurl.com/6xw22y

 

The NRC’s hourly rate for both the Nuclear Reactor Safety program and the Nuclear Materials and Waste Safety Program is $238 for Part 170 activities. This represents a 7.7% decrease from FY 2007 of $258 per hour. The decrease is primarily due to a revised estimate of direct staff hours worked annually per direct full time equivalent that is used in the hourly rate calculation.

17 The company I work for has a corporate jet.  A Gulf Stream that seats seven.  Eight if someone wants to sit on the toilet.  (Which happens from time to time.)  We have facilities all over the country & it just makes sense.  I have been on it many times & I'm no C.E.O.  Don't make a big deal out of this.

18

We will get to see how well the Republicans are able to hold together in January. This will be the first real test.

19

Effect of an auto bailout?

An airline bailout. The U.S. airline industry is as screwed as Hogan's goat, and if you think the big air carriers aren't going to be next in line on Capitol Hill hat in hand, I've got a...well, a U.S. car industry to sell you.

20

Hell, everybody is in line screaming for a bailout, the companies, the cities, the banks, the insurance people. The only people that haven’t showed up asking for a handout is the churches and the tax payers.

21

Romney's take on this  bailout. He says let them go so they can restructure.

22

Forget the bailout, the industry is gone anyway. The left is screaming for electric cars while the 'chosen one'  has vowed to bankrupt 50% of the power producers. An electric car with no electricity is on par with a gas powered vehicle with no gas. Yesterday the 'Chosen one' vowed to kill the auto industry by putting the same caps on automobiles that he vowed to put on power plants.  Get yourself a horse and buggy with the mandatory shovel to pick up the horse droppings to use to fertilize the garden you will soon require for survival on the level of 1850.

23 Oh great!  So now you GOP'ers are trash-talking Lear and Gulfstream and trying to put them out of business too?

I have a question for you--IF OUR LOUSY RULING ELITES CAN'T USE TAXPAYER MONEY TO FLY PRIVATE JETS, WHO IS GOING TO FLY THEM?   AND WHAT WILL WE DO ABOUT ALL THE OUT-OF-WORK LEAR JET PILOTS AND PRIVATE JET STEWARDESS-WHORES?

You got to look big picture boys.

24 The PR problem is precisely that they're going to get a bailout no matter what they do. 

And what will you do if you don't like it...write your Congressman?

So, really, I guess it's just bad PR.

No problem.

25 If they want my tax dollars they must come before me on tiny tricycles, wearing clown makeup.  Dance, CEOs dance!

26

The only people that haven’t showed up asking for a handout is the churches and the tax payers.

Lefty government people love it when you beg them for money...makes them feel like kings and queens sitting on a throne...which is basically what they're after.  That way, they won't have to deal with inconvenient elections and can be the aristocracy just like it was before all this troublesome democracy came along.

27

They're gonna get it, then we're gonna get it.

What a bunch of insane bullshit. When Chrysler got it's bailout, it was not viewed with the same sort of non-skeptic eye as this shitty deal is...

We're in a new era of political correctness and it's going to kill us.

28 I'm going to have to replace my old truck soon. I'm not sure what I'll buy, but I'm sure it won't be American made. I don't want no steeenkin' government truck.

29

Boy, I can't wait to get a new GM Trabant from the government owned auto-industry.

We're so fucked.

30 I like the way kefka thinks.

Get yourself a horse and buggy with the mandatory shovel to pick up the horse droppings to use to fertilize the garden you will soon require for survival on the level of 1850.

See, I think this is where all the O-bots north of the Mason-Dixon line (who aren't total sociopaths, and I assume there are a few) lose it.  How are they going to get fresh organic arugula, nevermind free-trade shade-grown soy lattes, in Wisconsin in February with no trucking industry?  Much

31 (Ignore that last word above, my brain finished before my fingers)

32 I just replaced my 1998 full size Chevy truck last spring.  290,000 miles & the only major work was a rebuilt transmission, so no complaints there.  However I had decided to replace it with a mid size & I looked at the Chevy Colorados.  No way.  Ended up with a Toyota Tacoma.

33

It only would cost 7 billion to buy the sonsofbitches out lock, stock, and barrel. Do it, cancel the union contracts through legislation (HRS 339 The Fuck You And Die UAW Act), and subcontract the companies to Toyota, Nissan, and Honda to run for 75% of the profit in the first 3 years, down to 50 percent for the rest. Take the profit and separately give dividends to each taxpayer (i.e., ones who do not get handouts like the EITC).

34

For security reasons, most CEO's are required to fly in private plane.  You don't think Paulson flew to NYC on a commercial plane do you?  No he flew in a private jet that you the taxpayers own.

That is worse. 

 A private company can piss their money away anyway they want, but having every dick general or Asst Sec of Whatever fly around in Gulfstreams really sucks.  Make THOSE bastards go through TSA Bullshit!

Kemp

35

The aggregate market cap. for the Big 3 is only about $7 billion. It makes no sense whatsover to pour $25 billion of taxpayer funds down this bottomless hole.

A prepackaged Chapter 11 bankruptcy, IMNSFHO, is the way to go. As long as they have the legacy union contracts, massive dealer networks, etc. as yokes around their necks, foreign automakers are going to continue to take market share.

That said, I give the corporate aircraft class warfare criticism a big "meh."

36 Same here CAD Daddy. My old F150 is approaching 300K miles. It's been a great truck. I won't consider buying another one.

37

Continuing;

After 10 years, if the privately-run industry (not nationalized, just owned and leased out like farmland) is profitable, then the gov't just needs to sell all of the stock on the open market and divest 100%. Bailout done. If it isn't profitable, shut it down and cut it up into scrap.

38 I have an S-10 with 75k miles on it.  It has never needed any major work.  If GM declares bankruptcy and comes out of the other end of it a viable company I would have no problem buying another GM car.  I will not buy a car to support UAW though, they can go to hell.

39 All a bailout will do is give cocksuckers like Sherrod Brown the ability to say that he saved some jobs for the dumbfucks that voted for him by transferring money from people who can thrive in the economy through smarts and hard work to the utter failures.  The problem won't go away; it will just reappear in the future.  Meanwhile Ohio's economy will have no incentive to develop in a self-sustaining manner and will continue to be a disgraceful basket case.

40 NO BAILOUT -

Chapter 11. Then...

a) sack all boards of directors with ZERO severance. Hire senior management at a capped salary, tied to performance. People who know how to design and manufacture cars that we actually want, and that are not design and mechaanical lemons
b) require union give-backs, wage and benefits freezes. Better yet, dissolve the UAW (heads are exploding) and renegotiate realistic contracts, also tied to productivity
c) eliminate the idiotic CAFE standards and other regulatory albatrosses that hinder our competitiveness

41

If they get the bailout, they'll have government designing the cars, that will be one of the conditions. Those government designed Yugos will sell like hotcakes.

The bailout can't save the automakers. That will only delay the collapse. The automakers out priced their market. Your buyers must be able to afford your product if you're going to stay in business.

42

"We want to continue the vital role we've played for Americans for the past 100 years, but we can't do it alone."

If they're so fucking "vital", why are they trying to pick the taxpayers' pockets because their potential customers have no use for them?

They're supposed to "do it" with their voluntary customers, not with compulsory taxpayers. I have to send money to Detroit, or the government is going to stick a 9mm Beretta in my ear and send me to prison for tax evasion? Fuck You!

If anyone would like to bail them out, then please send them a check from your checking account, but please, keep your god damned, Marxist, monkey fingers out of MY checking account, or I'll cut them off with bolt cutters!

Automakers are supposed to produce a profit by making and selling vehicles. They are not supposed to make money by stealing it from taxpayers via pressuring the government.

I have no use for GM, Ford, Chrysler or any one of thousands and thousands of other companies that don't produce anything that I want to buy. I want my money to go to the companies that "I" do business with. That's how the market is supposed to work. American companies complain about having to compete with foreign companies that receive government subsidies. So suddenly that's okay now? No it isn't.

If the "Dysfunctional Three" need to make changes, then they should be free to make the changes that they need to make. However, these money junkies should make those changes and not get a cash fix from Uncle Sugar. We would only be delaying the inevitable anyway. They need to clean up their act and get their sorry corporate asses into rehab.

In the meantime, please stop discussing the idea of giving them money you don't own - my money. Or I might have to come down on you like a ton of motherfuckers, with a verbal evisceration that raises your stress hormone levels to the point that you develop a permanent stutter and sound like Barry O for the rest of your miserable life! Keep your commie, expropriating hands to yourself, and off my cash! Or fucking else!

(Hope I used enough obscenities to be consistent with the tone of this site. One more just to be sure: You commie fuckheads! There, that should do it   Commies hate smilies : )

43 For security reasons, most CEO's are required to fly in private plane.

If they weren't doing stupid shit that had a lot of people wanting to kill them, this might not be necessary.  I'm just saying...

44 Those government designed Yugos will sell like hotcakes.

HR871--Mandatory AmeriCar Purchase Act.

45 This won't be the end of the American Automotive industry. Honda, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes all build cars in the USA.

It will just be the end of a corrupt union and corrupt corporate bigwigs who have been feeding at trough too long.

46 It doesn't matter. If they don't get it now they'll get it in January.

47 They will get a bailout in January.  Welcome to the Obamarevolution.

48 Did anyone ever question why it cost the Big Three $73 an hour to build cars and only cost Toyota-USA $41 an hour?

Hell, the UAW refused any givebacks. Only Chrysler's CEO offered to take compensation of $1. The other two CEO clowns refused. Both of them where compensated in the tens of millions last year.

BTW, my company CEO leases a corporate jet and pays for it out of his own pocket. THAT makes sense to me.

49 Purely from a risk management perspective, the bailouts raise an interesting dilemma. Do you let the diseased companies die, rewarding appropriate risk taking behavior by the healthy companies, or do you suck blood out of the healthy ones to keep the sick ones alive, making the industry and the economy diseased?

Strategic corporate risk tends to frequently come down to a real paradox: during good times, excessive risk taking is highly rewarded by the market. Consider a company that has a 5-year-old major IT platform that just went off capital lease, has technically obsolete hardware (with MTBF/mean-time between failure on hardware components now exceeding the manufacturers specifications), has probably lost vendor support due to the age of the platform, and likely has lost technical personnel expertise due to attrition.

As an executive, do you replace that system at a hefty cost, or do you milk it another year or two? If you milk it, you take much more significant risk which is never reflected on the corporation's financial statement. You pray that the system does not collapse on your watch and you can pass that pending-disaster to someone else. You make your numbers, look great, and move up a level in the executive ranks (leaving  the mess to some other poor sucker). Wall Street loves you for making great numbers, never knowing how you got them. You get your bonus and your options are worth more.

Or do you replace it, punishing your stock, your options, your bonus and risking your advancement? So what if you have taken less risk. The market won't reward you for protecting the stakeholders.

Until it all collapses and people go running for cover...

About the only thing that corrects this behavior is serious lessons on the death of firms that gambled and lost. They must be allowed to die, as this impairs this risk-seeking behavior and rewards those who might have had less profits but had greater statistical control through more effective approaches to risk. However, the current bailout program does the inverse: it robs the risk optimizer who got it right (Toyota, Honda, UMB and some other regional banks who didn't screw up), transfers their wealth to the risk seeking gamblers who sought personal compensation over corporate health, and screwed us all.

This will end up very badly given this current course of rewarding the diseased and sickening the healthy. The market contagion is now a risk contagion.

50 45 This won't be the end of the American Automotive industry. Honda, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes all build cars in the USA.

It will just be the end of a corrupt union and corrupt corporate bigwigs who have been feeding at trough too long.

+1

51 Mandatory AmeriCar Purchase Act

You joke, but this is pretty much how Japan boosts their domestic auto sales.   The have some goofy law requiring complete replacement of engine/tranny and drive train after 7 years...which of course is more expensive than buying a new car, so people usually just buy a new car rather than keeping the old one going.

Ostensibly, its done for "safety reasons", but clearly the real purpose is to fuel a constant demand.

52 Like with the subprime mortgage market and the necessary steps that had to be taken to correct the problems to limit their inevitable impact, the US domestic auto industry also knew as of 2003 that they had were on a doomsday path to extinction.

http://tinyurl.com/6krqjo
Link goes to wacko lefty Global Exchange, but they have reprint rights for the Economist piece.

http://tinyurl.com/5h7n3k
Furthermore, the Chicago Federal Reserve Bank, also in 2003, forecast this same storm.  The link is to a the Chicago fed Powerpoint titled "Midwest Auto Industry - Performance and Outlook".  It is a PDF.

THEY SAW THIS COMING AND DID NOTHING.  Why?

Once urban political machine types learned about the unlimited lending capacity of the Federal Reserve System they all started to pile on the spending, the leveraging, the taxing, the graft, and just waited until the capital in the market would run dry and the capital from the Federal Reserve would kick be tapped.

The Banks that own the Fed aren't the "line in the sand" fighting types even when it's in their self interest to do so.  They fear nationalization more than anything else, so they play the game where they give whatever they have to give to legislators, executive politicians, and industry.

How much longer can we keep on doing this?  We're like a trust fund for the world so long as our living standards are high.  What happens if the living standards decline?  What will the people do about it?

53 You can't be having Rick Waggoner getting finger fucked by those highly trained TSA stooges, waiting in the cattle chute airport security line, can you?

54

Markie Marxist sez: "The fix is in, Baby! The capitalist money junkies are strung out for cash after we've crippled them with regulation, and our Commiecrats are lined up to give it to them - with a few little preconditions attached, of course. We can sell it to the American people as "just a loan". Later on, we can offer loan forgiveness, with a few more little preconditions attached. Once we've effectively nationalized the auto industry we can move on to the pharmaceutical industry, and then the oil industry, and the airline industry, and the gun industry, etc. We have to nationalize America to save it! Yes, we can! We‘re gonna own this country!  Ha!  Ha!"

55 HatlessHessian,

Excellent summary. IOW, "no good deed goes unpunished."

Capitalism demands that failures happen. It's precisely how industry evolves and becomes optimized. Every so often, someone or ones figure to game the system. It is only when failure is punished that not just risk but unsustainable, stupid risk is abandoned.

56

If we don't let them fail, whwat can their future be other than absolutely shitty.

Did bailing out Chrysler help? Evidently not...

Joseph Schumpeter is rolling in his grave.

57

You know what, we REALLY ARE going back to the 70's.

It's just fascinating to behold.

58 Bad PR if anything. I might understand the whole security issue but flying in a private jet (well, I suppose 3 private jets) to ask for a hand out probably rubs a lot of people the wrong way.  Its kinda of like what Hitchens calls a "tumbrel remark" (well, in this instance, more of an event than a remark - " an unguarded comment[s] by an uncontrollably rich person, of such crass insensitivity that it makes the workers and peasants think of lampposts and guillotines."

59 @52, When/If China decides to de-couple from the USA economy, the excrement will impact on the variable oscillating device.  Dollars will lose 50% of their value, runaway inflation and collapse of the USA economy.

Did you know the capital gains tax in China is 0%. They know what makes an economy work, they may be commies but they a lot smarter than the imbeciles in Washington.

60 @57 I for one FUCKING refuse to wear bell bottoms. DEATH to disco. THIS IS GONNA SUCK.

61 When/If China decides to de-couple from the USA economy

That won't happen anytime soon. 

62

It's gonna be great come January when the "dead man walking 3" get their bailout and all the other car companies have sales that equal a 5%-10% loss on all cars they make for 2 - 4 quarters (because they can afford it) and bury the 3 that got the money. Skull fucking your competition when they are down is the best way to get rid of them for good, right?

That's what I hope they'd do anyways. If sure would send a message to D.C. to keep there hands out of the free market cookie jar. Whatever D.C. tried to do to stop them would only hurt them policitally.

Bonus would be that the dems would completely own that fuckup.

63

Execs: "Waaaah we need tax money please give us tax money we're going broke here!" *flies in private jet*

Gov't: "Here ya go!" *hands over billions* "Don't forget about the 'help' you're going to give some of our good friends, mmkay?" *wink wink*

Execs: "Sure thing!" *winks back & thumbs up* *flies back to company* "Hi wage slaves, 'sup?"

Employees: "Hey Jerks, how about give us some perks back that you took away now that you got all that money?"

Execs: "Nope, gotta tighten those belts!" *thumbs up* "See ya!" *flies to Aspen in private jet* *wallows in chateau full of tax money*

64 Make Sarah Palin the bankruptcy administrator!

65

Toyota was planning a new assembly plant up the road from here at Tupelo MS.  I said was planning to build a new assembly plant.

Not so much any more.

66

Purple Avenger,

That is so true.  Here in Charlotte, the former CEO of Wachovia is living  out of town and has someone living FULL TIME in his new (just finished this summer) $4 million dollar home in Charlotte.

Kemp

67

The Union of Autoworkers should be eliminated first if there is to be a bailout.

No way should their next strike be to get raises from our taxes.

68 "PRIVATE JET STEWARDESS-WHORES" -- Kasper Hauser @ 23 above

That, sir, is a wonderful new expression. Consider it stolen.

69

With the government designing the cars as a condition of the bailout maybe Ted Kennedy could demand that all new cars float.

70 Uh,

They fly corporate jets, because they HAVE corporate jets.

They HAVE corporate jets, because time is money.

whut's the problem?... Jealousy?... Avarice?

71

I don't think there are a lot of Gulf Stream stewardess's.  Kinda short on room in most cases.

Now the ladies behind the counter at the terminal......

72 just imagine the cars they will make now!  how many union hours will required per car to exact monies from the Dems?

73

Franksalterego:

I don't fly my Cesna, even though I have a Cesna.*

Why? because even though my time is money, I'm already so in the whole with debt, even if someone would give me a bunch of money, I STILL couldn't afford to fuel it after I pay off all my debts.

Understand?

Jealousy? no. Avarice? no. Not wanting to give money to someone that, as far as perceptions go, is going to keep on doing exactly what got them to the point of needing to beg for a bailout? yes.

Maybe they should have got up a little earlier and flown commercial. I might be a little more sympathetic to there needs. Like Instapundit likes to say: I'll agree that they need a bailout when they ACT like they need a bailout.

* I don't have a Cesna. Just using it as an analogy.

74 Hell, I'd maybe be this > < much more sympathetic if they "private jet pooled". But no. All 3 had to fly there OWN private jets...

75

What do you expect them to do?

--I expect them to show up at the courthouse door in a fleet of air-cooled, rear-engine, padded-dash prototypes that just rolled off the line, like Preston fuckin' Tucker.  They're only auto executives; I guess it's too much to hope for.

But that's what Preston Tucker would do.

76

Toyota was planning a new assembly plant up the road from here at Tupelo MS.  I said was planning to build a new assembly plant.

Not so much any more.

Man, that sucks. I haven't been keeping up with the news since I left MS but that's disappointing.

I think it's funny that people rant about "buying American" when the Japanese car companies have factories in places like Mississippi, Tennessee, and Alabama. They know to stay away from the Rust Belt and the grasping UAW.

77 theBman:

I'm not into beating up on the CEO's... I don't think, CEO's are the problem.

I think, CEO's earn every penny they make.

I think, that in relation to the overall corporate structure, and the responsibility they have, CEO's earn chump-change.

I think, zeroing in on CEO's diverts attention from the real problem in corporations... Communist Extortionist Unions... Too much Government regulation.

78 "They HAVE corporate jets, because time is money."

No, they have corporate jets because they had money. Now they don't and they want taxpayers to subsidize their now not so valuable time.

Also, they could damn well move to where they are needed most and use modern tech to telecommute as needed. Adapt to the circumstance of being fucking broke like every other honest enterprise on the precipice of disaster must do. Insisting upon door-to-door escort from the chalet to the executive penthouse across the country as a routine isn't optimizing time... it's selfish greed.

Furthermore, how are these men's time so valued when they're managing to destroy their companies with their leadership? Seems they're a bit overpriced to me.

79 I always get this confused;  is this IRONY or a flat out in your face FUCK YOU?

80 Taking a luxury jet to beg for spare change from our  Kleptocrats is inept. They could have driven one of their crappy vehicles. Takes about 9 hours from Detroit to DC.

Load up the GMC Yukon Hybrid($51K-22mpg hwy) with the CEO and a handful of flunkies, work and relax during the drive, brag about your commitment to the environment and the American worker, give the car to charity afterword, and don't look like such an oblivious schmuck.

Oh, and NO to bailouts - any bailouts.

81

Franksalterego:

I partially agree with you

Many CEO's are not the problem and deserve the every penny they get. Good CEO's know that without a doubt, perception is reality to the vast majority of the population and perception directly affects the corporate bottom line. Good CEO's know how to negotiate contracts and agreements that are beneficial to BOTH parties. Good CEO's know that when they are in an untenable situation, regardless of how they got there, that it's time to cut their losses. Good CEO's have many other attributes that make the companies they run successful.

Key word there... successful.

Toyota, Nissan, Etc. are successful car companies with good CEO's.

The big 3 are not successful companies with, at best, mediocre CEO's.

I also agree that Communist extortionist Unions and too much government regulation are a huge problem. They are not the only problem though.

82 We didn't bail out Nash, Packard,or Studebaker, and the world went on.  Message there?

83 Chapter 11 would be too good for these morons. Give 'em a Chapter 7 instead and see if that gets their attention.

84 GM's Market Capitalization is down to $1.59 Billion as we speak.

With 252,000 employees making $78 or more/hr. they can't last to the end of the year.

Even if they were to be bailed out, it's just a band-aid... No one's going to invest in that.

Let them file chapter 11... It's the only way to break the stranglehold of the unions.

85 @83 What's the difference between Chapter 11 and & 7?

86

franksalterego wrote:

"I'm not into beating up on the CEO's... I don't think, CEO's are the problem."

To clarify my position, I think CEO's have the right to get paid as much money as they can get, and spend it any way they want.

The problem I have is when they want to live the royal life and want my tax money to do so. It's the exact same problem I have with politicians.

Without government handouts, corporations have an incentive to hold down costs using any method they wish - possibly (though not usually) including cutting the pay of top execs. Also, if a company becomes too inefficient at providing products/services because of these costs, its competitors can move in quickly to fill the gap (hey IBM whassup?).

With government handouts, though, there's no incentive whatsoever to change anything. The effects of handouts in the boardroom are similar to the effects of handouts in the inner cities - removing the incentive for good behavior causes stagnation and decay.

87 Kind of remands me of when LEONARDO DECAPRIO flew in his own private jet from hollywood to washington d.c. on earthday then rode in a gas guzzling 4 mpg limo to a park to do a impassionate speech on global warming SCREW HIM AND THE HOLLYWEED ECO-FREAKS

88 Burn, baby - burn. The best thing that could happen now is total economic chaos and collapse. We may as well get it over with so we can get to rebuilding the whole system. The right way, this time. Please? I thought it would take Obamunism at least a year or so to accomplish this.

89 I thought it would take Obamunism at least a year or so to accomplish this.

The Democratic Congress got a two year head start.

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