1 Drew, I think his name is James Hanson, not Robert

2 "The Day After Tomorrow" was truly a prophetic movie. I mean, only completely catostrophic global warming could cause record cold temperatures and record snow falls. It's not like they could be wrong, after all, so that option is out of the picture.

3 robtr,

Thanks.

4 This would be merely laughable if it weren't for the fact that we just acquired a President-Elect who eats this shit up and thinks destroying the economy to fix the "problem" is a good idea.

Of course, our own doofus candidate felt the same way, but at least Sarah might have knocked some sense into him.

What is with these people and their global warming fetishes?  Dudes, just try going to church if you really need to worship something.  It's cheaper, less intrusive, and the God involved is actually real.

5 Slight off-topic, but has anyone else noticed that if you simply added tusks to Charles Rangel he'd be indistinguishable from a walrus?

6 It's nice to see that Treasury Secretary Paulson will be able to find gainful, high-paying employment at GISS after President Obama nationalizes all of the banking sector and declares the crisis solved. He seems to have the right aptitude and mastery of statistics required to be successful in Hansen's profession.

7 McCain was and this global changey bs sandwich as well...

Global warming is one of the most fundamental issues which caused me to leave the liberal moron battalion. If you can't get something as basic and objective as this right, how can you have credibility on issues that actually require judgment and real thought?!  WTF WTF WTF.  It's a madhouse...a madhouse....

8 opps:  7 McCain was in on the global changey bs sandwich as well...

9 They might get this all sorted out just in time for the glaciers to arrive in Miami.

10 I thought they changed the name of their scam to "climate change" to account for these sort of things, why lie one way or the other? just put out the raw data and say "See CHANGE! stop driving your SUV"  How could we question that? They'd have this scam lining their pockets big time if they would just get on the same sheet of music. where do I sign up?

11

Make no mistake about this; it was one of a series of deliberately fraudulent submittals. These asswhipes know the data is bad when they submitted it. I have seen a letter that was published by one of the so-called peer reviewers for the original work who stated he turned in a number of errors and bad data that was in the original, including the infamous hockey stick graph only to have his concerns blown off.

 

He further stated that he requested his name not be used as a reviewer since they neither corrected the errors nor gave a reason why the errors were not corrected. This, in effect, means that that constant refrain from the eco-idiots that the work was “peer reviewed” is a blatant lie.  

 

I view the hockey stick graph as a fabrication, I view the average worldwide temperature from satellite data which used elevated conversion factors to make temperatures higher as a deliberate fraud, and this most recent one is a deliberate fraud as well.

 

How anyone could still call this a valid scientific study is simply beyond me. It does not use the classic scientific method for development and proof of a theory, it has numerous errors that have been discovered, and numerous deliberate fabrications. All of the other so-called scientifc works of the past that have displayed as many errors as this one were immediately discredited and all that had ANY deliberate fraud in them were immediately discredited.

 

Why is it that this, as well as other so-called eco-studies are NEVER discredited?

 

Could it be because the only aim is to advance world-wide socialism and not science? 

 

12

BTW, October in my area was cooler than normal, this month is appearing to run an average of 10°F cooler than normal and the entire summer was cooler than normal.  To me when you get that kind of trend it is no longer what the warmies call local weather, it is a climate trend.

13 Anybody that has any doubt about the scam named climate change/global warming/whatever should ask themselves one thing:  What does dumbfuck Al Gore think about this?  Because he's a real life version of George Costanza; whatever this idiot believes, the opposite is true.

14

I thought they changed the name of their scam to "climate change" to account for these sort of things, why lie one way or the other?

See, this is how inefficient or stupid the GW activists are.  In the 70's, they screamed global cooling... then it got warmer and they said we know so much more now, it's global warming that's the problem.

Any smart human would have decided on the "any weather change means we need government intervention" rather than going from cooling to warming, and then to "change."  It took these asses three tries to get it right.

Except I'd say, look for the "Global Climate Stagnation" crisis around... what, 2020?

15

whatever this idiot believes, the opposite is true.

John Conyers is my own personal measuring stick for this standard.

16 Now that Barack is safely elected, the media will safely correct themselves on the great fraud of global warming.

"Never mind."

17

Slight off-topic, but has anyone else noticed that if you simply added tusks to Charles Rangel he'd be indistinguishable from a walrus?

Where's mah bukkit?

18 Come on guys the data was Fake but accurate.

19 Here is a puzzle for anyyone who might be interested. Go-gle A-55 Advanced Fuels Inc. I (as a armed guard) and a family member (as a Washington PR guy/freind of algores) were in on this, so I know the story but don't have the time or energy to write it out and it's fuken long. I'm also sick of people telling me I'm full of shit or lauging at it. It reads like a Frederick Forsythe novel. A lot of money went down this hole.

20 I can't help but think about intelligent design at a time like this.  The "scientific community" has its panties in a wad about this and trips over themselves worrying about it.

Of course, ID doesn't have a scientifically testable hypothesis, so it isn't science.  Unfortunately, most scientists don't understand the whole scientific method thing.

Anyway, when the whole global warming thing collapses, one of the effects on society will be a skepticism of science, far more pervasive and permanent than any perceived effect from ID.

In fact, if my IQ were low enough to do social science, I could write an entirely too long article on how we are in an age of post-science.  New cures for diseases are not on the horizon, but long, expensive and largely ineffective treatments are more likely.  Technological advances are unpursued because of environmental impact.  Moreover, professional science is riddled with more sloppy methods and falsified data than a freshman physics lab.

21 Climate Change Hope.

22 When NBC Nightly News advocates turning Manhattan Island back into a carbon-devouring swamp, I'll take their devotion to AGW seriously.

AGW is a myth created to control the behavior of the ignorant masses.

23 Fantasy science is a key trait of the left.

Margaret Mead, whose work is the basis of almost all libtard thought on sex and society, is another great example.

Not only were her studies wrong, they were complete lies from beginning to end. Amazingly, she got the results she wanted from her "research". She ended her days as an adherent/believer in witchcraft.

I suspect at some point in the future we'll find that Hansen's a voodoo priest and his results derive from readings of chicken entrails.

24 Their intentions are good, that's all that really matters

25

Okay.  Here is a place where I really think conservatives should reexamine their approach to global warming.  Right now the discussion is polarized between the extremes of if-you-drive-SUVs-then-you-are-worse-than-Hitler and if-you-believe-that-nonsense-you-are-a-commie-enviro-whack-job.  Someone has to play the role of adult, and I suggest that should be us.

 

Let’s focus on a purely empirical point of view.  Let’s look at the actual objective facts and the solid, unbiased conclusions that can be drawn from these facts.  There are three so far for which there is unanimous, absolute agreement in science.

 

Over the past 100 years, the planet is getting warmer. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is now higher than it has ever been measured in the past. The greenhouse effect is real, and CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

 

There is no use arguing against these three things.  To do so is to argue against science itself, or to claim that there is some sort of hidden agenda.  I can tell you right now: when it comes to these three claims, there isn’t.

 

Where I think the battle lines should be drawn is the connection between CO2 and temperature.  The entire premise of Al Gore’s movie was that (a) since CO2 is increasing, and (b) since temperatures are increasing, and (c) since CO2 is a greenhouse gas, therefore CO2 is causing temperatures to increase via the greenhouse effect.  There is no direct experimental evidence of this on a global scale.  The evidence that is relied upon by Al Gore et al. are the IPCC models, which are necessarily flawed because they are incomplete.  So we have these scary projections about polar bears drowning and NYC flooding based on flawed IPCC models.  The environmentalists would have us accept these models uncritically and take immediate action with some huge government boondoggle program to ‘save the world’.

 

I argue that it should be our job to: (a) point out the flaws in the model where they exist, (b) continue to fund good science on the matter, and (c) promote individualistic, market-based solutions to environmental problems to the extent that we are able to do so.  For instance, it may not be true that driving SUVs will cause imminent global catastrophe, but there are also lots of reasons not to drive SUVs if you don’t have to (poor gas mileage, maintenance, etc.).  Same with other actions in our daily lives.  Why get the 50” plasma TV when the 48” plasma TV would work just fine?  Is it really necessary to get a new computer every year?  Etc.

 

But I fear that if we continue down our current path and simply deny it all as being a pack of lies will only backfire on us, as we will then be viewed as ‘arguing against science’ and it also plays nicely into the MSM meme of conservatives as anti-intellectual ignorant hicks.  And if nobody will listen to us even if we have valid criticisms, they are more likely to listen to the environmentalists and give them what they want, power over our economy.

 

Just a few thoughts on a Sunday afternoon.

26

Chemjeff: There are some “problems” in your givens:

 

The temperature has NOT been increasing for the last 100 years. It is now decreasing while CO2 is supposedly still increasing. In addition, examination of ice core data and mud samples from the Caribbean show that CO2 increases several hundred years AFTER the temperature increase. In other words, there is more evidence that CO2 forcing is occurring from the temp increase of the sea water.

 

This would tend to PROVE that the AGW hypothesis is false.

27

Vic,

No, temperatures overall have been increasing over the past 100 years.  It is true that the past 10 years there has been some mild cooling.  But the overall trend is upward.  And on your second point: It doesn't decisively prove the AGW hypothesis to be false, but it does cast doubt on it and that is the sort of thing we should be doing.  My overall point though is that we can't run around and say "it's all a pack of lies" because there are some parts to the entire global warming issue that are actually true.

28

Vic, I agree, but there's also the role of solar activity to factor in.  After two very active, somewhat shorter-than-average solar cycles from 1976 to 1996, we're at the end of a long solar cycle with a very long solar minimum and record low solar wind pressure. 

It's going to get colder.

29

Chemjeff

I do not agree

30

chemjeff said ://there are some parts to the entire global warming issue that are actually true.///

Chemjeff clearly has no scientific training. There are some parts to lots of false theoretical constructs that are "actually true"... It's the conclusions drawn from them that are false.

also:  ///Over the past 100 years, the planet is getting warmer. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is now higher than it has ever been measured in the past. The greenhouse effect is real, and CO2 is a greenhouse gas.///

these three basic points are a) unconnected causally or logically and b) either incorrect or meaningless.

1. Why pick 100 years? Earth was a good deal warmer than it is now from 800-1300 AD, during the medieval warm period. (The hockey stick fraud edited out this whole 500-year period, by the way) It is widely agreed that Earth temps are still recovering from the Little Ice Age.

2. CO2 higher than ever before measured? How long has it been possible to measure it accurately? In any case, manmade contributions to CO2 add 16 one-thousandths of one percent (0.0168%!) per year to total atmospheric CO2 concentration.

3. What does "the greenhouse effect is real" even mean? The greenhouse effect is a good thing! It's what prevents Earth from being a frozen Venusian wasteland, by stopping heat from escaping into space. Also, about 75% of the greenhouse effect is due to water vapor and cloud; only 20% to CO2.

Presumably you mean that human-emitted CO2 exacerbates the needed warming for which we thank the greenhouse effect. But that contribution is small. And as Vic notes, CO2 rises POSTDATE temp increases as measured in ice cores. Also, as roamingfire hydrant pointed out, numerous climate scientists have found tight correlations between temp. fluctuations and solar energy that reaches earth (which looks like it's in decline right now), and almost "no correlation at all [of said fluctuations] with CO2."

31

roamingfirehydrant

I agree, but I wasn't going to try to argue Solar cycles and complicate it even more.

32 So here's the problem: They accept global cooling under the heading of "global climate change", but all their
"remedies" include getting rid of greenhouse gases, which are only classified as pollution because they supposedly trap the earth's heat, making it warmer. If it goes from warming to cooling, shouldn't the remedy go to More, rather than Less Carbon Dioxide?

33

Erwin,

1. I picked 100 years because that is the timespan over which the pretty unassailable consensus has emerged.  This is the timespan over which we have the most reliable measurements of temperature.  Going back further in time, it gets dodgier.  The "hockey stick" wasn't so much a fraud as it was blown way out of proportion and used to justify the initial bouts of gloom-and-doom hysteria.  That was its chief problem.

2. Well, total CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere now are about 370 ppm.  In the past it's been between 190-280 ppm.  These values come from ice core samples and the like.  Yes they are prone to error, but they'd have to be in error by about ~40% in order to exceed the 370 ppm that we have today.  Direct atmospheric measurements of CO2 didn't begin until 1958, at which point CO2 was 315 ppm.  Take that information and do with it what you will.  I'd be interested in knowing where you got the 0.0168% figure from. 

3. Well of course the greenhouse effect is a good thing.  I'm not disputing that.  I'm saying that these gases do contribute to the greenhouse effect.  Yes I know that water vapor is a much bigger player than CO2.

And I'm not really arguing against you here.  I remain an AGW skeptic.  My point in bringing up these three items, and I guess I wasn't clear on this, is that they are the three pieces of scientific evidence that the AGW hysteria crowd would like to join together in order to take over the economy.  And my advice to us as a group is that we should not argue the scientific validity of these three pieces, because that's a losing battle.  Neither should we throw our hands up in the air and say "it's all lies" because it's not ALL lies.  The lies start when Al Gore and his crowd make scary predictions based on computer models.

34

Hmm. The temperature-CO2 correlation is not perfect, no, but it does not disprove the possibility that CO2 can cause warming.  Consider the following hypothetical sequence of events:

1. Some event causes the planet to release some CO2.  (Maybe sunspots, maybe orbital wobble, maybe a big-ass volcano.)

2. The CO2 causes the planet to heat up a bit.

3. The extra heat causes some more CO2 to be emitted.

4. Repeat #2 and #3 for a while until something causes the heating to be turned off.  (New solar cycle perhaps.)

I'm not saying this is happening.  I'm saying it is possible.

35 chemjeff,

You are wrong about the 100 year trend (which is an arbitrary number). The temperature went down between 1900 and 1950 by about one half a degree Celsius. Then it went up by a full degree Celsius between 1950 and 1998. Since 1998 the trend is back down.

But hey, other than that: sure. A total of .08 degrees Celsius over the last 58 years. That's the total.

36 chemjeff,

Lagging indicators cannot be causative. Ever.

Anybody keeping track of stupid shit that's been posted in AoSHQ comments should gold plate that one.

37

“The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present — and is gravely to be regarded.

"Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.”

The scientific-technological elite, Eisenhower (1960) truly was prescient. Read the speech, it could have been written today.

DKK

38 chemjeff, you should go over to climateaudit.org and follow Steve McIntyre's quest for an engineering quality (i.e., auditable) report of how a doubling of atmospheric CO2 leads to a 2.5C increase in global average temperature as forecast by the IPCC.

All else constant, 2x CO2 itself is good for ~1C. You simply can't get from there to the 2.5C without net positive feedbacks that exist only in climate model fantasyland.

I'm not too keen on betting the world's economy on some egghead's computer models. Hell, look how bad they already fucked it up with the risk models on mortgage-backed securities and CDS's where all the inputs were known.

39

Slightly off topic, but there's been a lot of talk here and on other conservative sites that, with the recent election results, lefties will now have to take responsibility for what they do.

Give me a break. Look at their modus operandi, from GISS in this article. Were they wrong? Did they screw up? No, of course not. It was because the "figures...were obtained from another body" (It's somebody else's fault - Get used to hearing that one) and "GISS did not have resources to exercise proper quality control over the data it was supplied with" (If only you damn conservatives would give us a blank check book, we could fix this. That's why we've never won the War on Poverty, even when we controlled the presidency, the House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court at the same time.)

40 It's so much fun to sit back and laugh at these bozo's again and again.

41 In a rush so I'll make this brief.  The planet is getting warmer by more than a mere 0.06 degrees C.  It is more like 10 times that amount.  Should people be concerned?  Yes.  Is it time to press the panic button?  No.  And I agree that the connection between atmospheric CO2 and global temperature is tenuous.  But that is my whole point.  This is where the argument should be.  Politically it makes no sense to attempt to argue against things for which there is 99.99% scientific agreement.  If we argue against the obvious then nobody will believe us and we will hand the issue over to the radical environmentalists, and all of us here know damn well that they believe the root cause of global warming is capitalism.  We can't let them get away with this and that means making our argument smarter.

42 Really? Are they still turfing?

43 The Gorebull warming scam is a rehash from a similar scam in the 1950s. Hysterical creation of a bullshit "religion" to support the one-world-global-yeaOlympics government sought by the progressive libtards.

44 chemjeff,

99.99% agreement does not exist.

http://tinyurl.com/yr3mtk

In fact, the nut graph of that paper is right in the abstract.
Global warming theory is unscientific.

45

Politically it makes no sense to attempt to argue against things for which there is 99.99% scientific agreement

 

I can’t believe this thread is still going.  However, the idea that there is a “consensus” by the scientists on this issue is another great lie.  I have seen a letter posted by a science investigator seeking clarification on that issue from the U.N. Panel who replied that they had no clarification (words to that affect) because they NEVER said that there was. The referred to the opening page of their report that only stated that the work had been “reviewed”.  They said that the idea of a “consensus” was a fabrication of the press.

 

Indeed, from what I have seen in the past two or three years the consensus from climatologists and geologists (who are the only people I would consider experts on this) there is more disagreement with the AGW scam than there is agreement. 

46

Indeed, from what I have seen in the past two or three years the consensus from climatologists and geologists (who are the only people I would consider experts on this) there is more disagreement with the AGW scam than there is agreement. 

 

In fact, more and more scientists are coming over to the rational ( and scientifically-factual) side of the argument.

47

Gaia Truth can be a harsh mistress. There, fixed.

I live in NE Ohio and 3-5 inches of the white stuff is expected today and  tomorrow.  It's 32 degrees outside with a windchill factor in the 20s.  And we're not even in the 'snow belt'.

I want Al Gore's fat ass to show up and help me shovel all the 'global warming' off my driveway.

48 12 said:

"... BTW, October in my area was cooler than normal..."

 

Ya want to know the real temperature in your area year-to-year? Just look at your utility bill. In most places they have last year and this year side by side for comparison.

 

One of the other guys is right too in his question regarding the lifetime of this crapola - it's all about political power grabbing. Climate "Change" is the battle cry to control everything in your life, not a real and effective attack on actual chanes of world climate. Until I see them change the tides or stop even one single hurricane I call Shenanigans!

 

49

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