1 I don't understand the problem Barack has. When I joined the military, one of the pieces of paperwork required was my birth certificate. Just produce the damn document.

As someone, here I think, said Barack couldn't pass the security requirement to be on the Secret Service detail assigned to protect him.

2 I agree. I think it's nonsense but the fact that he refuses to pony up has me thinking that something stinks about it.

3 this guy will not be held accountable for anything.  When do we get to see the Columbia records?  Are you fucking kidding me?  Some dude was elected President without ever releasing his university records?  What the fuck?  This is the biggest case of media/voter negligence in the history of the country.

I'm not necessarily buying into any natural born conspiracy, but come on, this was appointed plain and simple.

Okay, that's my craziness for today.

4
It can't be that the Constitution specifies the requirements [....] but no one has the power to actually compel [....] satisfaction of those requirements.


I'll bet you an unused black robe and gavel on that.

5 If he were hiding something, which would be really the ultimate act of arrogance, 30% or so of his supporters won't care and all heck would break lose.

6 "In which case, I'd begin to suspect there is some kind of problem."

And then what?

More wasted energy.

We lost an election after great effort to lose it.

Give it a rest.

7 For Pete's sake, put a stop to that investigation now!  If Obama loses his eligibility, Joe Biden will become President of the United States.

8 "More wasted energy."

Look. It's Alan Keyes. He's got nothing better to do. Really. It will keep him busy, at least until the Electoral College votes, if not longer.

If McCain were suing, that would be a different story. After all, he doesn't even have time to defend Sarah Palin.

9

Want to guess how many heads will explode IF he really doesn't have a legit birth certificate?

Kemp

10

I thought the judge had already ruled in that lawsuit that Obama had until like the 4th of December to provide the original from Hawaii? Did he not?

I will research...

11 I thought the SCOTUS was hearing the Berg appeal and was requiring Obama to respond by 12/1.

12

When I worked for the airlines, I had to account for practically every second of my life for the past ten years. Shit the FAA pretty much shoves their fist up your ass to dig up anything in your past if you want to work for the airlines.

How sad it is, that our president-elect barely got a pinkie up his ass.

13 If he were hiding something, which would be really the ultimate act of arrogance, 30% or so of his supporters won't care and all heck would break lose.

Worse, I think I would actually have to hit somebody.

14 What about his selective service registration? Is that going to go away, or will the DOJ do some investigating? The more I hear about Obama the more this seems like a bloodless coup, not an election.

15

Maybe we need Ohio public servants to get involved in this investigation as they seem to have enough time on their hands to research those suddenly thrust in the public eye.

As for standing, McCain and Palin should have standing as should Ralph Nader.

I doubt McCain would do anything about it, though I wish Gov Palin would, though the press would probably start calling her a truther, but given what she's been called already, that's hardly worse.

If he's not a natural citizen, the interesting question would then be how many counts of wire and mail fraud counts would Obama and his campaign be subject to for falsely portraying him as a qualified candidate in order to receive campaign contributions and would those monies have to be returned to all contributors? Same with contributions to Congress and the DNC for democrats, for any requests made mentioning Obama as a reason to contribute.

That would be sweet. But that might just mean Biden's President not that the entire ticket is disqualified, but we never had such a situation so maybe some activist court could make that determination. Especially since you can't distinguish between the voters who voted for Barack from those who voted for Biden, both of their votes would be irreparably tainted by the lack of qualification (allegedly) of the top of the ticket. Does that mean that Nancy Pelousi would become Acting President while this got straightened out through appeals?

 

16 The again, the blood make be coming...

17 Actually, wasn't part of the problem that he went to Pakistan in the eighties while in Indonesia and went under an Indonesian passport.  Indonesia at the time did not allow dual citizenship so he must've gone under an Indonesian passport therefore giving up his US citizenship.  He could've reapplied for US citizenship but if I understand correctly, he now would be the equivalent of Arnold Schwarzenneger.  Like Ace, I haven't followed this too closely but it does seem to be a simple thing to solve.

18

ARRRRRGGGHHHHH

Give. It. Up.

This is our side's version of Trig Trutherism or the Loose Change stuff.  It needs to stop.  NOW.

19 If Obama is diqualified before the Electors meet in their states, they'd be free to vote for whomsoever they will, as they are.
If after, then Biden is President, if he won the VP ballot as expected.

20 I'm not saying I like this, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_v._Borden

21 Geez, I'm right now in the process of filing for Social Security. Even for that, I have to take originals of my birth and marriage certificates and also military discharge to the local SS office. I should just be able to take a copy of those documents with a Canon point and shoot camera, post it on my website, and be good to go. It's not like I'm running for President or something.

22 I'm willing to suspend the conspiracy theory thing about this birth certificate but one does have to ask what the problem is with simply producing the document.

23

Here it is:

Berg filed a writ of certiorari in the U.S. Supreme Court on Oct.30, to force Obama to produce his birth certificate. Justice David Souter rejected an emergency appeal on Nov. 3, for the court to halt the tabulation of the 2008 presidential election results until Obama documented his eligibility to run for office. However, Souter set a schedule for a response from Obama, the DNC and all co-defendants on or before Dec. 1.

24 So, what happens if it turns out The One was born in Kenya?

25

Well, it turned out that certification wasn't forged, or didn't seem to be.

 

Boy,this is  journalism at its finest. Same thing we have been hearing all year.

What an oxymoron.

Produce a cert of live birth, before inaugeration.

26 Go to factcheck.org. and see a photograph of the original birth certificate!  This urban myth was proven a myth - months ago.  Why are you guys still in denial!

27 I'm sure Pamela Gellar is very excited about this.

28

If you read the case, producing an original birth certificate is the least of Obama�s problems:

"80. If he was born in Hawaii, there are four (4) other obstacles to Senator Obama�s eligibility. In and about 1967, Senator Obama moved to Indonesia, took the last name of his stepfather, Soetoro, and went by the name Barry Soetoro. In original legal action filed by Mr. Berg, he presented Senator Obama�s school registration, showing him registered as Barry Soetoro, Citizenship-Indonesian, Religion Islam, signed by L. Soetoro. From 1945, Indonesia has not allowed dual citizenship and, therefore, Ms. Dunham-Obama-Soetoro, Senator Obama�s mother, had to relinquish her son�s U.S. citizenship in order to obtain Indonesian citizenship for him, which would make him ineligible to become a United States President. Additionally, the United States could not allow dual citizenship with Indonesia at that time, as Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship, and it was prohibited by the Hague Convention of 1930, as interfering with the internal affairs of another sovereign Country."

29 @ 1, DSkinner


I don't understand the problem Barack has. When I joined the military, one of the pieces of paperwork required was my birth certificate. Just produce the damn document.



Please correct me if I am mistaken, but is not Obama's birth certificate on file as a public record in Hawaii?  He may have a paper with his footprint imprinted, but my impression is that's just a document issued by the hospital and not the official "birth certificate." 

Years ago I wrote to the county government in the county where I was born to obtain my birth certificate.  They mailed me, not the actual certificate, but a certification that the birth certificate was on file.

30 It was a coup.

Get over it.

And it was not bloodless.

31

More from the complaint:

"81. In addition, upon return to the United States in and around 1971�1972, Senator Obama would have been required to go to the then current immigration procedures to regain his U.S. citizenship. There is no record of him ever doing that. Even if he had done so, he would be considered a naturalized citizen and not a "natural born" citizen.

82. Additionally, assuming Senator Obama was born in what is now Kenya, at the time of Senator Obama�s birth in 1961, (now) Kenya was the British Protectorate of Zanzibar and Senator Obama was automatically accorded a form of British citizenship under Section 32(1) of the British Nationality Act of 1948, effective date January 28, 1949, based on his father�s citizenship.

83. Finally, in 1981, Senator Obama traveled to Pakistan, when there was a ban for U.S. citizens to travel to Pakistan. The only logical possibility for him to do so was by using one of his other passports: Indonesian, Kenyan, or British.

84. Based on all of the above, it is the duty of the SOS to obtain proper documentation of Senator Obama�s citizenship to confirm his eligibility for the office of the President of the United States."

32 Hey CTN, Obama was 6 YEARS OLD IN 1967!  He wasn't living in Indonesia on his eighteenth birthday, when citizenship could have been determined.  At no time has Obama renounced his U.S. citizenship!  Some paperwork filled out by his step-father has no legal meaning.

33 CTN, that is correct.  Also, the State Department in 1981 had a ban on American's traveling to Pakistan and if Obama did go to Pakistan for 3 weeks as he has admitted, he must have gone under an INDONESIAN passport to get in.

34 How much money, time, and effort has team Obama put into lawyers, firms and court cases over this?

Are we talking tens of thousands of dollars, or hundreds of thousands?

All he has to do is produce a birth certificate and put it on the table. It's not a fucking anal probe!

At first I thought maybe the birth certificate just had some embarrassing information like the wrong father, wrong religion, or something like that.

The guy got elected, so what is the deal now?

What possible reason is there for the guy to not produce the thing?

35 Go to factcheck.org and SEE THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE! 

IT HAS BEEN PRODUCED, YOU MORONS!

2008 has been lost, begin your thoughts for 2010 and 2012.

36

Looks like we got a lefty troll. I personally dont care, I am just adding to the fact that I would like to know if my president is constitunially prohibited from being POTUS.

Go to factcheck.org. and see a photograph of the original birth certificate!  This urban myth was proven a myth - months ago.  Why are you guys still in denial!

Posted by: hoosierbrad at November

No its not the original, the one they are after is the one in the vault in Hawaii that the authorities are refusing to release. This is the full length Birth Certificate, even the Governor, a Republican, refuses to consent to its release.

37 26 Go to factcheck.org. and see a photograph of the original birth certificate!  This urban myth was proven a myth - months ago.  Why are you guys still in denial!

It's a lost cause for us, but it's kinda rich to hear a complaint from a group of people who still insist Gore won Florida.

38 To Iwillnotsubmit and all of the rest of you who are in denial.  The web can be a useful tool - IF YOU USE IT!!

GO TO FACTCHECK.ORG  and see for yourselves.  Search for Obama birth certificate.

LEARN SOMETHING!!

39 I don't think they can consent to release it without obama's permission.

40 I don't think they can consent to release it without obama's permission. Posted by: YourAssIsTooBigForTheTent

Why won't he release it? That's what I don't get.

41 I still want to know if obama is the real father of his kids. The public does have a right to know. /sarc

42 I HAVE A THEORY THAT IF I TYPE IN CAPS ENOUGH YOU ALL WILL REALIZE HOW LEVEL-HEADED I'M BEING.

43

hoosierbrad - stop trolling around here, please

Obama has not yet made public his actual Birth Certificate.  And until he does, I remain suspicious.  Is that so hard to follow?

44 If he was born in Kenya, the best he can get is "naturalized", which would make him ineligible.  The Electoral College would vote on the President, same as always, but with the ignorant wailing of "Constitutional crisis!" from MSNBC and other idiots.

If the EC can't decide, it goes to the House of Representatives.  Who knows who they'd pick, but I think it rhymes with 'Antsy'. 

45 hooserbrad,

The contention of those doing the contending (I am not one of them), is that the facsimile at factcheck.org is phony.

Going there and looking won't change their minds.

46 factcheck.org is part of Annenberg Foundation.  Gee, where have I heard that name before?  Oh yeah, Obama was tied to the Annenberg Challenge in Chicago!  Yeah, there is no bias on factcheck.org.

47

Posted by: hoosierbrad at November 15, 2008 04:38 PM (y/

Hey Douchebag, listen one last fuck___ time. That is a certified fucking copy. It is not the original long form that is in the fucking vault. I personally do not care, but these people filing lawsuits to see it are only being given more shit to fight with because the DNC has hired lawyers to fight the suit so has Obamas attorneys. Its the same as if Sarah Palin hired attorneys to stop people looking into hospital records of when fucking trig was born.

We on the right ACCEPT THAT OBAMA IS PRESIDENT. We are over it, we are just discussing the lawsuits going on. For christ sake.

48 I think someone is having a brain aneurysm.

49

Posted by: Ginger at November 15, 2008 04:43 PM

Sorry lefty, moonbat trolls do that to me. Plus I bartended all night and have a hangover and Im tired.

50 I don't understand the problem Barack has.

I do: He's being questioned by commoners.

51 Eh, we'll probably eventually find out that he was born of a jackal and destined to rule as the antichrist.

52

This is our side's version of Trig Trutherism or the Loose Change stuff.  It needs to stop.  NOW.

Err... no it isn't. And why people try to equate this with 9/11 trutherism smacks of astroturfing or just plain ignorance.

Fact one:  Obama still has not provided anyone with a birth certificate.

Fact two: The "certificate of live birth" which surfaced first on dailykos cesspool is not a birth certificate. It was issued just a year or two ago. The original still has not been seen.

I can provided my original issued paperwork, can Obama? What might it say?

Fact three: There is documents showing Obama as a resident of Indonesia, to date he has not renouced his citizenship of said nation. You cannot hold dual citizenship and be president.

 

53

His mother was an American citizen.  That should be sufficient, especially as he spent most of his years prior to 2008 in the United States; certainly his years after age 16 were here.

Not being a conspiracy-theorist, I could see using this as a way of delegitimizing any criticism of Mr. Obama, that all critics are just right-wing howler monkeys like those unfortunate inividuals who smeared Pres. Bush over the past eight years.  Enthusiastic partisans, but sadly deluded and stark raving mad.

Emphasis on insanity, less on enthusiasm.

54

Obama has not been held accountable for anything he has done nor has he had to prove nor disprove of any actions or suspicions against him.  Wrong is wrong no matter how many people thing it's alright.  And no, we will not shut up about it.

55

#14:

At this stage who gives a crap about SSR?  He's too old to call up anyhow.  And what I have seen from CY he registereed - maybe late - but he registered.  And I am not going to rag a 47 year old man because he wasn't up and forthcoming at 18.

No one should want to bring up what they did or did not do at 18, when they are in their 40's.

56

Go to factcheck.org and SEE THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE! 

Moron- What is posted on factcheck.org is the same COLB which is posted first over dailykos.

It is NOT the birth certificate from 1961 which the state of Hawaii has locked in a vault. Which could be released with permission from Obama.

Which he continues to decline.

Kinda like Kerrys discharge paperwork eh?

Using the caps key isn't helping your argument or changing the facts.

 

57

His mother was an American citizen.  That should be sufficient, especially as he spent most of his years prior to 2008 in the United States; certainly his years after age 16 were here.

Actually under the laws back in the 60's since she spent so much time out of the country as a minor I think that did not apply.

The laws have changed since then and now.

58 I'd love it if it could be proven that Barry is ineligible to be president. Of course if it was proven then his zombies would take to the streets protesting and demanding that the law be changed. Nothing will get in the way of his coronation.

59 His being a citizen has little to do with his being a 'natural born citizen'. Two different things.

60

What possible reason is there for the guy to not produce the thing?

Well, Katya stole my first reason, so I'll go with my backup, which is that there's either no father listed or someone other than Mr. Obama of the Kenyan Obamas. Would you want to produce a document in which good old mumsy had them write "Damned if I know" under Father? (Although, that whole Malcolm X theory sounds interesting, too.)

I'm half serious, as I suspect that the whole birth certificate thing was a pungent red herring designed to keep his enemies away from the real scandals in his past.

61

Sorry lefty, moonbat trolls do that to me. Plus I bartended all night and have a hangover and Im tired.

I was talking about the lefty moonbat troll.

62 Posted by: TiredWench

Why keep stalling now though? The game is over and he won.

Nothing short of him not being a 'natural born citizen' makes any difference now, so why be coy?

63 "Alan Keyes, who appears to have standing"  - Wrong.

John McCain would have "standing", Alan Keyes is just another person who can't seem to believe in certain facts.  His lawsuit will be thrown out very quickly, indeed.

I guess Mr. Keyes has not seen his name enough in print, lately, and thought this was a way to get attention.  His attorney(s) must be idiots.

Even if California's electoral votes are not counted, guess who wins the election - B.O.

64

http://tiny.cc/6SqdZ

Right from the Hawaii .gov website-

"A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii."

Obama was adopted by his step-father.

65

Nothing short of him not being a 'natural born citizen' makes any difference now, so why be coy?

Maybe to continue to prove to the world that he does not abide by the laws that the rest of us do.

66 For the record, factcheck is reasonably good for verifying that your connection to the Intartubes is working ,and nothing else.

Ditto snopes.

They gave up their credibly for ?The Cause.

67

My understanding is that US v Rhodes dealt with the Constitutional definition of "natural born" and that decision was that someone can only be "natural-born" if they have never owed allegiance to another country. Obama was born to an American citizen and a British citizen. He had at least dual citizenship if not triple citizenship (depending on whether he was an Indonesian citizen as is indicated on the only official record of his schooling that we have - his Indonesian school registration).

Heck, Obama leaves no question that he has loyalty to Kenya. He campaigned for Raila Odinga on taxpayer dollar (illegally), "Friends of Obama" contributed a million dollars to Raila's campaign, and his church of 20 years says on its home page that Blacks owe their allegiance to "the mother country". The CAC money he authorized was spent teaching Black boys and girls that they are NOT and should not call themselves "Americans".

Good heavens. This is as clear as the nose on Barbara Streisand's face. But hey, this is America. Why should laws matter here?

68 Hmmmm.

"I'm willing to suspend the conspiracy theory thing about this birth certificate but one does have to ask what the problem is with simply producing the document."

Ditto for me.

Seriously.  He won.  What the hell is the problem with producing the extended document?

69 What about his selective service registration? Is that going to go away, or will the DOJ do some investigating? The more I hear about Obama the more this seems like a bloodless coup, not an election.

Debbie Schlussel has an interesting post up about that.

70 HOOSIERBRAD........And, you got your law degree from where.....

71 I'm half serious, as I suspect that the whole birth certificate thing was a pungent red herring designed to keep his enemies away from the real scandals in his past.

If it was a red herring, wouldn't they have ponied the birth certificate up by now? The fact that a real birth certificate not a COLB has not been produced seems suspicious. Unless of course, the strategy is to keep conservatives busy with this issue while they are building their army of brownshirts. Little do they know we can monitor multiple fronts at once!

As for FactCheck...Annenberg owns FactCheck.org. Ayers appointed Obama CEO of Annenberg Chicago. So I'm thinking they have a very personal connection to 'The One.'

72 The Division of Vital Statistics in each state vary in their record-keeping; but the vast majority of states keep records of live births in the County Health Office of the County of Birth.  There are no so-called "original birth certificates" - just entries in log books.  These entries contain all info later put on a certificate of birth when you request one.

Hospital birth certificates have no legal meaning.  Only the certificates produced from these original log entries.  The log entries are never produced to the public or to the person requesting a birth certificate.

Thus, the certificate that B.O. has produced is his legal birth certificate and this kind of mindless talk should stop.

We have other important things to discuss in this country than whether Sarah Palin is Trig's mom and whether B.O. is a born in the USA citizen.  Our citizens are fighting the bad guys in Iraq and Afghanistan and we fight about this crap!

Our founding fathers would be laughing!

73

LOL @ #50....Exactly!

Also, on the Selective Service question...the produced documents show signs of forgery/fraud. The thing is, if he traveled to Pakistan in his 20s, he couldn't have done so as a US citizen, so, it stands to reason he wouldn't have been required to register for Selective Service. The docs submitted are incomplete and have the year/date of registering as '08.

Too many questions. And thanks for those above who mention the worthlessness of factcheck, yeah, let's ask them for 'facts' on Obama! Why not just ask his wife, or his pastor, or his bomb setting neighbor, or his jail bird house-deal friend....or any number of crooks from his past.

74 Meh, the requirement is natural born citizen. If he qualified for that, I dont see how the Indonesian thing will matter (since he was a natural born citizen still-by birth).
Now if he isnt things get interesting-would the electors choose Biden? Hill? McCain (shyeah right-they would still be dem electors) Nancy? punt it to the House?
The long knives would be out- it would be so delicious. And it would spare us Obama or McCain, and pretty much turn the next President into a ineffective lame duck (or at least give them an uphill battle)

75 Factcheck.org is funded by Annenburg - who also endorsed John McCain for President.  Check it out.

76 Hmmmm.

"For the record, factcheck is reasonably good for verifying that your connection to the Intartubes is working ,and nothing else.

Ditto snopes.

They gave up their credibly for ?The Cause."

Ayup. 

Whenever anybody references either of those two I just break out in laughter.

77 Hmmm.

"Factcheck.org is funded by Annenburg - who also endorsed John McCain for President.  Check it out."

Which

A. means nothing

B. is a nice way of covering your ass when you're really on the other side.

Why?

Because who really gives a rat-fuck who Annenberg endorses?

78 To MDVet:
 
I.U. School of Law.

79

#55

Well if what Schlussel found is in fact true, then there is the whole misuse of power, cover up, etc.  Not registering is a crime and punishment includes fines, prison, not getting student loans, a job with the government, etc.

80 Hmmmm.

"Meh, the requirement is natural born citizen. If he qualified for that, I dont see how the Indonesian thing will matter (since he was a natural born citizen still-by birth)."

Because if you give up your citizenship you can't just call a mulligan.

81

www. blog text . org/ natural born citizen

TAke out the spaces and click on it. NJ lawsuit supposed to go to Justice Thomas but we need your help because a bastard stay clerk has twice screwed up.

Can't say more. Ace won't let me.

82 Ok, so this is potentially unprecedented, I believe...

For the sake of argumentative fantasy, let's say it turns out there's no cert. None. BO hims and haws past the "soft" SCOTUS date and they get nervous - go directly to the State of HI, which can't refuse a SCOTUS demand for the document. We find out there isn't one.

At that point it's determined that BO was never eligible to run at all.

So - other than riots in the streets in every city that make the Rodney King days look like a play date - what's the procedure?

Anyone? Bue...   OW!

83

#75 I e-mailed FactCheck.org FOUR times to tell them their "Born-Alive Baloney" was dead wrong because of the Herbst-O'Malley agreement. Documented it for them. They would not correct it.

They're a trash organization. I don't believe a word they say.

84 Posted by: Hooseierbrad at November 15, 2008 05:34 PM (y/JJL)

How many screen-names on this thread are you using?

85 TOTW,

The Annenberg (at least spell your errors correctly) Foundation doesn't endorse candidates. Leonore Annenberg (the current President and Chairman, and wife of the founder) endorsed McCain, which is not surprising, since she worked at the State Department under Reagan.

It's also pretty loose with its funding, and the various beneficiaries of its largesse have quite a bit of freedom in their direction. The Annenberg Challenge Fund, for example, was very much a progressive organization (big surprise, with Obama and Ayers on its board), giving grants for "Afrocentric education" and other seriously non-mainstream (lefty) programs.

What that says about factcheck.org's own biases is, precisely nothing. They have to be judged on their own, and they have been, this cycle, to be generous, less than definitive, usually deferring to whatever explanation the Obama camp provided, without doing any actual, you know, fact checking.

86 Let me get my tinfoil hat...

OK, this is what I think. BO was born in HI, but there's something embarrassing on his Birth Certificate, such as a father listed as "unknown," Some Communist, or someone not Barak Obama, Sr. Embarassing yes; disqualifying no. I say this because the Governor of Hawaii, a Republican, has sealed the document. Since aforesaid official has sworn to uphold the Constitution she must believe the document does not contradict BO's natural born citizenship status.

Since every member of the US Armed Forces take a vow to uphold the Constitution and since the POTUS is the Commander in Chief, I'd like to hear the legal reasoning behind a claim that a currently serving member does not have standing in a suit brought to ascertain whether his boss is a usurper or not.

Contrast BO's actions with those of JM who quickly coughed up a copy of his Panama Canal Zone birth certificate when similar questions were raised months ago. It makes me think BO is hiding something.

This is fringe stuff. But fun fringe stuff. Don't take it too seriously until something concrete is established.

87 Hmmmm.

"This is fringe stuff. But fun fringe stuff. Don't take it too seriously until something concrete is established."

That's my POV.  Frankly I think the whole thing is rather amusing really.  And if it does turn out that BO -is- not eligible to serve as POTUS?

Fireworks all over America.  Or the world.

88 #82 If the NJ case goes to Justice Thomas and he agrees that eliegibility must be certified, the documents would be produced and Constitutional issues judged. If he is found to be ineligible before Dec 15th, his name could not be put on the ballot for the Electoral College. The eligible candidate with the most electoral votes would win. It could not be Obama.

89 If I put my tinfoil hat on, these things come to mind:

1.  Isn't it funny that a lot of people questioned McCain's birth certificate and then glossed over Obama's birth certificate issue.  Kind of like a firewall.  Hey McCain is this, so I'm just the same type of thing.

2.  What was going on with the snooping of passport travel issue on McCain, Obama, and Clinton.  Could it all have been a ruse to "change" Obama's data and by looking at Clinton and McCain, you throw the scent on follow on questions and cover up what you were really doing.  If there are government officials in Ohio doing things on behalf of the one, what are the odds that there is at least one in the Passport Agency doing a little quid pro quo?

Ok, tinfoil hat off now!

90

After having his mother's nude pics posted online, I don't think he's afraid of being shown to be illegitimate OR the son of Frank Marshall Davis - who is probably the one who TOOK the nude pics.

You don't hire an expensive CAIR lawyer if you're just annoyed by a gnat in your eyes.

91

Wanting the US president to be Constitutionally eligible for the office has nothing to do with tinfoil hats. It's been eye-opening to find out that the Constitution has no protection on presidential eligibility other than the assurance that the media is adequately informing us of any potential concerns about a presidential candidate.

This MUST be rectified. I personally think we have screwed every service member who may have to take orders from someone who has pissed on the very Constitution they take an oath to defend.

I'm spittin' mad, and I don't even spit well.

92

If he has a birth cert. or not will make NO difference.  It will never be an issue and Hussein will be coronated.

Between this and an election system completely broken and corrupt benefiting the Leninists (this too will never be addressed or standardized), America is in deep S**T.

93 Whatever.  The vault copy of the COLB may in fact have a presiding physician's signature, nurse, hospital or whatever in Hawaii.  There are, either pending or on appeal, I believe 17 different lawsuits regarding this issue and Obama is paying three (3) law firms to fight them. 

My question is, what is on that birth certificate that is so important to spend that kind of cash on when all he has to do to get rid of them is authorize the release?  I won't get into is he a citizen, was he a citizen or whatever.

I mean really, here is a guy who will not release any records from the three universities he attended.  Not one person at Columbia, not one attending during the years he attended, not one professor can recall him.  Not one picture of Obama in any yearbook in any year he attended, not one best buddy or ex girlfriend has come forward.  The guy is a cipher.

94 So... 'splain sumpin to me...

Say I decide to run for POTUS . Just when and where and to whom do I present my credentials validating my eligibility?

95

#92 Right. But are we just gonna stand around and pick our noses or bicker amongst each other while America burns and is gone forever? Go to ( www. blogtext. org/ natural born citizen ) Take out the spaces. (Darn you, Ace. Some long strings are just links that are longer for heaven's sake) And then write to Justice Thomas and Chief Justice Roberts.

NJ has a law requiring the SOS to certify eligibility. She didn't. A NJ resident has sued, asking as relief that both McCain and Obama be checked for eligibility now, before the Electoral College votes on Dec. 15th. If either one is found to be ineligible I would gather that they can't be placed on the ballot of the Electoral College.

 NJ Supreme Court didn't deny standing. The case is supposed to go to Justice Thomas but the stay clerk mislabeled it in order to keep it buried from having emergency status. That's why we need to write the justices- so they demand it be handled rightly.

Regardless of what the verification process shows about either guy, we should all agree that the process should require verification. Please help out.

96 #94 Nowhere. If you run for a state seat you have to sign a piece of paper saying you're eligible. For the presidency, nothing. I asked my Secretary of State's office about it.

97 Oh.  Why wouldn't Keyes have standing?  He was on the ticket as a presidential candidate opposite of Obama and McCain.  According to the lawsuit there is precedent action of the SOS denying eligibility in two prior elections because the candidates did not meet constitutional requirements.

Any attorneys?

98 Certification of live birth is not the same as the original birth registration. The latter of which can be had in Hawaii even for infants born abroad.

This point is lost on some.

If there were no reports by African relatives of him having been born in Kenya I would dismiss any claim of foreign birth out of hand.

Combine these reports with the perfectly plausible scenario of quick return of his mother to the USA to register his birth in Hawaii, and his inexplicable refusal to permit a judge or other party to view the original, signed, vault copy, I will have unsettled doubts about the secrecy.

He doesn't have to be born in Kenya for my doubts to be rational. He may well have been born in a Hawaii hospital, but if your grandmother says she helped deliver you in Kenya, or was at least in the room, is not that grounds for a reasonable investigation, given that Hawaii would have permitted his mother to register the birth in Hawaii?

I don't feel particularly crazy for wondering why he is so secretive about something he ought to be perfectly willing to share.

99

Thus, the certificate that B.O. has produced is his legal birth certificate and this kind of mindless talk should stop.

It is NOT his legal birth certificate and I have already provided a link from the Hawaii state website that covers this.

Obama could very well be born in Kenya (or on a plane for all I know) and because he was adopted in Hawaii by his stepfather they would issue a COLB.

This would be cleared up post haste by Obama but they choose not to do so.

100 I would like to at least know which countries his campaign money came from, and how many overages there were.

101 My wildass guess:  He's listed as white on the original birth certificate

102 101

I never thought of that, but that would be reason enough for him to spend all that dough defending these suits rather than release the document.

103 I ordered a photostat of the original and a computer generated certificate of my birth certificate. It is cheap and easy and non intrusive. Therefore, the comparison to Trig Trutherism is bullshit.

The only reason I can think that he may fight it even if he was born in the US, is because the original was lost. If so, than it is the hospital and state's job to explain why it was lost.

104 The only reason I can think that he may fight it even if he was born in the US, is because the original was lost.

That's not it because the state of Hawaii has said that they have the original in the vault.

105 Until the election, there was no case for the courts to decide: there's no law to keep the Democrats from running an inelligible-to-serve candidate. Now that Obama's name is before the College of Electors, who really do pick the President, there is. I suspect any elector will have standing to sue.

That said, I think the whole issue's a rather silly payback for earlier Democratic ruminations about whether McCain was 'natural born'.

106 Hmmm.

*shrug* if the original was lost, then the blame would be on the hospital not him.

Still does not explain why the refusal combined with fighting the lawsuits.

107
I'd kinda like ta know why bambi and his mom were in seattle when he was only 3weeks old.

108 That said, I think the whole issue's a rather silly payback for earlier Democratic ruminations about whether McCain was 'natural born'.

I don't think that is why, I don't know for sure but there are numerous suits going on now and several more to be filed.  I really think that it is a "need to know" and put finality to the issue.  It is just strange to me that Obama would continue to pay all of that cash to defend these suits when producing the document would get them dismissed and prevent any others from being filed.

Maybe it is just arrogance or obstinance.

109 Hmmmm

"That said, I think the whole issue's a rather silly payback for earlier Democratic ruminations about whether McCain was 'natural born'."

Still doesn't explain -why- BO refuses to open his certs.

110

Since you are talking about this. I have been trying to figure out How Obama and Mo were able to go to Bali for a few months while he "wrote" Dreams. If you go to Indonesia on a tourist visa, you can only stay, a month (I believe it is a month). He obviously was an adult at the time, so was he still an Indonesian citizen?

111

If it was a red herring, wouldn't they have ponied the birth certificate up by now?

Not if it's still keeping us busy. After all, time spent discussing his birth certificate is less time spent watching him load up on lefty scumbags for his cabinet and map out his first days in office.

112

It fries me that he's finding out all about our secret surveillance and such when we don't even know whether he's eligible to be president OR whether his campaign was paid for by Arab Muslims, as Qadaffi says.

Do Senators get security checked? If so, when?

 

113 I think I figured it out....BO's real father is Dick Cheney.....or Jessie Jackson

114

There is actually a lot to question. I read the thing but I can't remember. Something to do when his mother lived here too.

Can you imagine if this happened? Blood in the streets wouldn't even begin to describe it.

 

115

#111 What could we do about it if he put Bin Laden in as secretary of state? Exactly what we've been able to do about anything he's done: nothing. We're not losing a single thing by focusing on this instead of something we can't do anything about anyway.

There is one thing we the people can do now. We can write to Justice Thomas and Chief Justice Roberts and ask them to take case #08A4071 - which has been sabotaged by SCOTUS stay clerk, Danny Bickel. That suit would require both John McCain and Barack Obama to be certified as eligible as New Jersey law requires. Take the spaces out of this link to see the information you need to do this ONE thing left that we the people can do.

http:// www. blogtext. org/ natural born citizen

116

107
I'd kinda like ta know why bambi and his mom were in seattle when he was only 3weeks old.

AND she did NOT know how to change a diaper at the time.

117

#114 The police have been trained to deal with a martial law situation and crowd control from even before the election.

Raila Odinga, whom Obama campained for in Kenya and "Friends of Obama" donated a million dollars to, had as his campaign plan to agitate disenfranchised young people to vote for him on the promise that they wouldn't have to pay rent any more because personal property would be taken over by the government - and if he didn't win the election, to incite them to violence. Which he did.

It could be bloody in the cities. Hopefully the police and National Guard would be prepared, and non-Obots would leave the cities before it hit.

118 memomachine 109 - Because he doesn't have to; there's no authority that's made him do it. Even then he'll fight it all the way for whatever reason, which could be as simple as he doesn't feel like it.

He doesn't like to be questioned. Ask Joe.

119 Because he doesn't have to; there's no authority that's made him do it. Even then he'll fight it all the way for whatever reason, which could be as simple as he doesn't feel like it.

Yeah..but there's a time when you cut your losses.  He is paying three (3) law firms to defend these actions, probably at $1000 per hr or better, and he is just swatting flys off of a crusty witch's twat, cuz there are more being filed each day.

I can't see him not releasing it for any other reason that there is something on there that he does not want to be made public.

120

You guys really don't see how much your posts read exactly like Andi Sullivan's garbage about Trig Palin, do you?  Where's Trig's birth certificate?  Why wouldn't Governor Palin just produce it and end all the speculation?  Why doesn't the hospital list Trig's birth on the date he was supposedly born?  Has anyone seen Bristol lately?  How do we know she is really pregnant? 

Governor Palin had no need to produce documents or prove anything because the allegation that she faked her pregnancy was absurd on its face.  We would have been outraged if she had responded directly to Sullivan and produced Trig's brith certificate.  So is the allegation that Barack Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen.  He has no reason whatsoever to produce his original birth certificate, and there is no basis at all for suspecting that the copy he did produce is a fake. 

This is also comparable to the moonbats who insist that George W. Bush was AWOL from the Texas ANG.  Why can't he produce records proving where he was? 

I'm no concern troll or Axelturfer, I am someone who prefers to use her energy talking about facts and not charging off on wild fantasies that make me look like a moonbat.

121 rls - That could very well be; his life is a series of shadows. I just see him as nothing more than arrogance and ego which is why I wrote as I did.

122 I can't see him not releasing it for any other reason that there is something on there that he does not want to be made public.

Posted by: rls at November 15, 2008 06:57 PM (k4h7p)

How about, it's none of your goddamn business?  He has plenty of money and paying a few lawyers to swat these flies is not making a dent in his personal or campaign finances.  Meanwhile he's laughing his ass off at all the right wing kooks chasing this chimera while he plans to nationalize the whole fucking economy.

123 120

I think you are getting this a little mixed up.  No one sued Palin to produce Trig's hospital records.  Trig's birth has nothing to do with the constitutional question of eligibility for the office. 

McCain had to produce his birth certificate and his medical records and released his military records and his Naval Academy records.

Are the lack of records on Obama and his history a legitimate topic of discussion?  I would say they are since he is going to be the most powerful CEO on the planet.  There are or have been seventeen such suits filed and all of them question his eligibility to hold the office.  Are you suggesting that candidates for those constitutional offices should not have to provide proof of eligibility?

Did you read Keyes lawsuit or just summarily dismiss it as the ranting of the demented Alan Keyes?  Had you read the suit you would have seen that the Calif SOS has, in the past, decertified two (2) prior presidential candidates because they did not meet eligibility requirements.

I think there is a world of difference between requiring proof of eligibility for such a high office and obsessing over who's womb Trig came out of.

124 #120...So then I guess the fault is in the system since absolutely NO ONE is responsible for the vetting of a presidential candidate.

A 3 headed, green and orange Martian can just say...hey folks I'm qualified...vote for me....DUH

125 Keyes isn't the only one in good standing. 

Atlas has more info:
http://tinyurl.com/ags8t

126 That previous tiny url doesn't seem to work.  I tried it again and here ist is:  http://tinyurl.com/58qbxy

127 Obama could very well be born in Kenya (or on a plane for all I know) and because he was adopted in Hawaii by his stepfather they would issue a COLB.

Well, that's as may be, but on Obama's COLB, it clearly says he was born on the island of Oahu.

So I guess this document must be phony, or forged, or something, and the state of Hawaii must be lying when their officials certify that Obama was born in that state.

128 How about, it's none of your goddamn business?  He has plenty of money and paying a few lawyers to swat these flies is not making a dent in his personal or campaign finances.  Meanwhile he's laughing his ass off at all the right wing kooks chasing this chimera while he plans to nationalize the whole fucking economy.

Hey rockmom...got news for you it is my goddamn business.  I don't think he's laughing about anything...I think he is concerned about something on that certificate.  I didn't file the suits, but I sure like them and I hope another 30 of them are coming.  I suggest you take some of those rocks out of your head, sit on your lard ass and roll them around between your legs and see if you can come up with some brilliant way to keep this "President Elect" from nationalizing "the whole fucking economy."  Because while you're doing that, I'm going to be watching these little lawsuits play out, drink my beer, eat my popcorn and regardless of what happens with them.....I'm going to have more success than you.


Oh, yeah.....fuck off!!

129 One must remember Obama's ancestral tribe in Kenya are Muslim Arabs.  One might suspect, that perhaps, Obama's birth certificate might have him identified as anArab-American instead of African-American.  Interesting.

130 Also, why is Obama even continuing to ask his supporters for donations?  Even a writer at Slate said, she was cutting him off.  The election is over isn't it?

131 Whether Hussein was born in Oahu is not relevant.  Justincase was posting links clarifying what is in question and why the suits are being filed

132 This would be cleared up post haste by Obama but they choose not to do so.

Exactly Obama is the one who is perpetuating this issue and giving it life. All he has to do is show a simple document to the authorities and it goes away, along with his very pricey lawyer bills.

Why won't he produce the  document?

133 Hmmm.

@ Ace

Wait a sec.  Did you not -ban- this subject previously?

134 Tom at 11:

I thought the SCOTUS was hearing the Berg appeal and was requiring Obama to respond by 12/1.

No, not exactly. Having lost in the lower courts, Berg filed a petition for a writ of certiorari (i.e., he asked the Supreme Court to grant review.) As a matter of rote formality, the U.S. Solicitor General, as counsel for respondents, was given until Dec. 1 to file a brief in reply.

After Dec. 1, probably at the first opportunity the Court has to issue one of its lengthy order lists, the Court will deny Berg's petition without comment. And that will be that.

Just FYI, under no circumstances would the Supreme Court require Obama, or the state of Hawaii, or anybody else, to produce a birth certificate. The Supreme Court is an appellate court, not a trial court. Accordingly, it does not take testimony or receive exhibits. Appellate courts review questions of law, not questions of fact. Questions of fact are answered by trial courts. Whether Obama has a birth certificate showing Hawaii as his place of birth is a question of fact, and therefore a question to be answered by a trial court.

Here, the only reviewable question of law is whether the trial court erred in concluding that Philip Berg lacks standing to bring his litigation. Since the answer to that question is a straightforward "no" -- the trial court did not err as a matter of law -- Berg's petition for a writ of certiorari will be denied, there being nothing for the Supreme Court to review.

(Incidentally, the doctrine of standing is an integral component of the larger doctrine of judicial restraint. The standing doctrine prevents a court from meddling in a matter that is not properly before it.)

135 Paul

After reading Keyes petition, do you think that he has standing?

136 Well, here goes:
Firstly, if you are born on foreign soil, you cannot be Prez.
Secondly, if you are born on American soil in a nation that confers automatic rights of citizenship to you, unless said right are declined in writing prior to birth, you cannot be elected Prez.
Lastly, unless I miss my guess, and I have before but rarely, the wording on a 1961 COLB in Hawaii, as in any state would read "black" or "negro" or "colored" or "white" (he is half-) and not use currently in-vogue racial terms like "African" or whatever as the Fightthesmears exemplar uses. By American law, you cannot list "African" as your nationality if you are a foreign national, as Africa is not one nation, any more than a Frenchman could father children under the nationality "European" in order to avoid any anti-French backlash his progeny might suffer. That alone would invalidate any such issued COLB as being factually fraudulent.
The birth certificate issued in Hawaii is therefore invalid, regardless of its actual authenticity. You can bet his COLB if available doesn't call his father "African" any more than his racial makeup would be given a nice modern sounding term
like "mixed" or "bi-racial"or "ethnically pleasing to the electorate."
Either way, there are 17 lawsuits out there, and there has to be something to this whole raft of stories or they'd go away like the rest of the stuff the MSM kindly ignored for their boy.
But this involves lawyers, the human equivalent of amoeba or cold viruses and they damn well don't go away once they get something legalistic stuck in their craws.
Finally, with the dual citizenship thing dealt with, neither McCain nor Obama meet the citizenship test, leaving Hairplugs OBiden as the apprent new Prez, unless it goes to the House and God Alone only knows who those mouthbreathers would pick.
Standby for real fun if they disqualify him. Now that this is national news, there can be no neat factual cover-up of hiding candidate ineigibility by SCOTUS and the press and the whole Obama phenomenon goes to dirt. Then the election fraud he wouldve perpetrated gets tossed into court as well...
We shall see.

137 Yes, you can be born on foreign soil and be President. There are laws that decide whom is considered a Natural born US citizen. In the Case of McCain the law said he was. If Obama had been born in Kenya the law says he would not have been. He was certainly a citizen of Kenya (British at the time) but this lapsed on his 18th birthday. The constitution says nothing about dual citizenship, and with nothing proving Indonesian citizenship it would be moot anyway. The school registration hints at this but does not prove it.

138 Paul
With the understanding that one thing legal in one state has to be recognized as legal in any other state, such as a Driver's License or Visa or other legal document, does Berg's case not have the merit that a supposedly legal copy of Obama's birth certificate has been produced for his website and therefore, a actual copy could be compelled by the SCOTUS if Berg's standing hold up, which it probably won't, so that actual Best Evidence is available for the Court.Not for fact but for sake of compliance with law and best evidence rules?
Copies are better than nothing but originals are best?
They might not request it but the counsels for each side sure can, can't they?
With the Court's blessings that is?
Former cop here, just asking...

139 Hmmmm.

After all of the "he's not black enough" during the primaries I seriously doubt having something other than "black" or "negro" on his cert would do anything.  The black community has already accepted him as black and that's pretty much the end of it.

140 There are up to nine states requesting that Obama's birth certificate be made public.

http://tinyurl.com/6lbe6j

141 Bill, you're wrong the Constitution states that you cannot have any allegiance that might interfere with your allegiance to the USA. That said, it does not matter that his citizenship sundowned at 18, the fact that he had it at all, by virtue of his biological father's nationality, is the matter at hand on that account. The fact is, unless his mother declined said citizenship prior to his birth or immediately thereafter, such citizenship bestowal was automatic, giving Obama dual citizenship, an issue clearly dealt with in the Constitution as not allowed on for American natural born citizens. Divided loyalties loses out, period.
Thus, there is clear legal ground for disqualifying both Obama, and McCain, who though born on American soil in the form of a naval vessel, could have accepted Panamanian citizenship after his birth there. He never did, but that does not do away with the legal precedent that is being argued here.
By the NJ argument, both are not legal to hold the office of President due to dual loyalties, and those were a big issue in the 1760's and 1770's when these documents were authored. 17890's too, but who's counting?

142 Go to the blogtext page and read it for yourself, the words of the constitution are pretty clear insofar as the Founding Fathers wanted only Americans, and not citizens of other countries as President. The fact remains while both Obama and McCain are American citizens they both either held foreign citizenship or were entirely eligible to, and that is a constitutional no-no to be Prez.
Congress, Senate, SCOTUS? Sure.
President of the USA? Nope.
It'll be interesting. Gonna get some popcorn and Corona for the spectacle.

143

Paul (#134),

Could you look at this site (take out the spaces; I can't post the whole link as an unbroken string) http:// texasdarlin. wordpress. com /2008/07/25/ divided- loyalties-pt-1/

The argument is that US v Rhodes means that the Constitutional definition of "natural born" means a person who has never owed allegiance to another country. Do you know of any other ruling that would undo that precedent?

Case #08A407 takes the same procedural route as Bush v Gore in 2000. New Jersey state law requires the Secretary of State to certify eligibility before placing the candidate's name on the ballot, which the SOS did not do. The NJ Supreme Court has already looked at it, so the Supreme Court would have jurisdiction over it and it should get immediate attention. The stay clerk of the SCOTUS, Danny Bickel, has filed it wrongly in order to bury it. The filer wants people to write to Justice Thomas and Chief Justice Roberts to make sure they are aware of it and insist that it be handled properly. Please see  http:// www. blogtext.org/ natural born citizen (again, take out the spaces)

Even with all the documents available, would the NJ  SOS be able to rule determine Constitutional eligibility when there is a Constitutional definition above and beyond normal citizenship rules?

If this does make it to Justice Thomas, how do you think it will play out?

144 #142 My understanding is that McCain is eligible because he was born on a US military base. More here (remove the spaces) http:// texasdarlin. wordpress.com /2008/07/25/ divided-loyalties-pt-1/

145 True, but under the part of the Constitution in question, since he could have had Panamanian citizenship or had it and ignored it just like Obama, McCain seems to fall under the same provision of the law. Not a lawyer, just another moron reading what the NJ lawsuit claims, and that cat seems to actually be a lawyer, though I have no information whether he'd seeking counsel from Fred Thompson, who played a lawyer on TV...

146 Justincase. Try tinyurl. It shortens those long urls that don't work, here. Works great.

147 BY the way, Why is Obama so skinny?

If he gains any more weight he couldn't walk on water...

148 Anyone who considers this issue to be a phony should include a link to Obama's birth certificate showing where he was born in their posting.

149 Nice Deb (#146) Thanks. I had never heard of that. You really ARE Nice Deb. =)

150 Alan, expect to have every minute of your background chekced since birth from every agency within the governement. After all ,you did put ourself in the spotlight by doing this. Better make sure he doesn't have a lien or owes child support!

151 suppoesedly his draft notice he never signed up for has been backdated by his friends in Chicago. Whether this has legs or not begs the question that the MSM wil lnever bring up

152

26 Go to factcheck.org. and see a photograph of the original birth certificate!  This urban myth was proven a myth - months ago.  Why are you guys still in denial!

 

Actually that was shown to be a fake. FYI factcheck.org is in Obamas pocket. Where have you been?

153 right here, typing and drooling...and you?

154 Trig's birth has no bearing on constitutional requirements for the elected position Palin sought, so STFU about that.

155 Are people with dual citizenship obligated to sign up for selective service? 

156 120
Yeah, except there aren't 17 lawsuits against her to produce it.  I'm sure she would have by now!

157 Here's what PajamasMedia wrote about the selective service issue (see pg 2). He did register.

http://tinyurl.com/63el3n

158

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but there has to be something there at the very least that will embarrass him. At the most, incriminate him. Why won't he release it? Why wouldn't he release his college info either?

There are more things he refuses to release information on than things he has actually released information on. And all those things are "misunderstood" or "taken out of context" when someone else finds out, not when he brings it up.. Never has a person had so much information about anything and everything "taken out of context". Is there any examples where he hasn't used some pin head lobotomy excuse for? All the while still not explaining it, just complaining

159 While I think Obama is almost certainly American, Alan Keyes lawsuit should be taken seriously for the reasons you offer.

160 I didn't read the rest of your comment, but do you have to start with a total falsity:

"Firstly, if you are born on foreign soil, you cannot be Prez."

Put that in the middle or something to give an incentive to read on.

161 Ah, shit, I couldn't resist. I read further.

"Secondly, if you are born on American soil in a nation that confers automatic rights of citizenship to you, unless said right are declined in writing prior to birth, you cannot be elected Prez."

That doesn't even make any fucking sense. "If you are born on American soil [so far so good] in a nation that... [umm, dude, you just said American soil]... and then some nonsense about declining foreign citizenship in writing... before birth?

You gotta be on crack.

162 Here are my odds for whats on the real Birth certificate

Born in Kenya  3:1
No father listed 2:1
Father listed is Frank Marshall, Coke dealing communist pedophile 1:2
Completely valid and same as the photocopied computer generated one proving he is just an obstinate prick 5:1

163 enter sandman, you then continue on:

"Lastly, unless I miss my guess, and I have before but rarely..."

Which brings a bit of humour to the situation. Much appreciated!

However, then you become as insane as you were earlier. Holy fuck, dude. Take a high school logic course. Oh stop smoking weed. Or both.

164

137 Yes, you can be born on foreign soil and be President. There are laws that decide whom is considered a Natural born US citizen. In the Case of McCain the law said he was. If Obama had been born in Kenya the law says he would not have been. He was certainly a citizen of Kenya (British at the time) but this lapsed on his 18th birthday. The constitution says nothing about dual citizenship, and with nothing proving Indonesian citizenship it would be moot anyway. The school registration hints at this but does not prove it.

------------

I seem to recall McCain was born on a Military base. Whether a U.S. military base is in or outside of the U.S, anyone born on a military base is a U.S. citizen.

165 "...anyone born on a military base is a U.S. citizen."

Uh, no. If you're going to debate technicalities of Constitutional eligibility, please try to be tight with your language.

Yes your earlier point about McCain being a U.S. natural born citizen is correct, but it has nothing to do with his being born on a military base and everything to do with having two American citizens as parents.

166

See Americas Right for issues on Keyes standing

http://tinyurl.com/69p7bh

167

I am in the process of adopting internationally from a 3rd world country, and currently my case is tied up in court there because USCIS requires the original birth certificates of adoptees, even though most are born in poverty and certainly not in a hospital.  Consequently what is issued at birth is a birth registration document,  The birth certificate is derived from the registration document and ends up in the National Archives. In my case, the birth certificates have to be extracted from the Archives by the court .  I probably would not have given much thought to BHO's certificate of birth except that I am currently involved in this process.  I actually KNOW how this stuff works.  Barry's evasive behavior certainly points to something fishy.  It's possible  he was born at home in Kenya, and when his mother brought him back to Hawaii she brought a birth registration docment that his Hawaiian documents were built from.  Perhaps this is why we have not seen his 'original' birth certificate. It would be apparent.

 

168 Sandman at 38:

If the Supreme Court agreed that Berg had standing to have his suit heard on the merits -- and it will not, because he does not -- it would just remand the case for further proceedings. But in no event would the Supreme Court itself ask Obama to produce a birth certificate.

Justincase at 143:

I looked at the link you provided. The argument there seems to be that if you have ever held dual citizenship in another country by operation of foreign law, you cannot be a natural born citizen of the United States (even if you were born in Oklahoma), and are therefore ineligible under Article II to serve as president.

That argument is quite obviously wrong. Here's why.

Suppose that Iran feared what Gov. Sarah Palin might do as the U.S. commander-in-chief. Under the argument propounded at the link, the Iranian government would need merely to invest her with dual citizenship in that country, thus rendering her ineligible for the presidency.

To accept the theory at the link, you'd have to believe that Article II should be construed to give foreign governments the power to decide who should, or should not, be eligible to serve as president. Our courts would, it is to safe to say, find such an argument unpersuasive.

169

#168 The excerpts from US v Rhodes and Blackstone didn't appeal to foreign action, though. They referred to inherent allegiance as the basis for the US discerning who is "natural born". The issue doesn't seem to be whether any other country says the person owes allegiance, but whether American law (based on British law) would say the person owes allegiance. I don't see any reference to what another country says or does.

Am I misunderstanding?

170 Keyes is certifiably nuts.

171 Yes, the whole thing is stupid. Whoever brought it up in the first place is stupid.

BUT

On the other hand it is apparently completely fair and proper for bureaucrats in progressive Democrat-led states to delve into private records on private citizens who HAVEN'T just been elected President of the USA, just in case the media gets the facts wrong, because if the media doesn't have national correspondents in a certain city it is the government's job to do their dirt-digging for them. Apparently. The whole thing is another blatant example of how ludicrous - and dangerous - leftist hypocrisy is.

172 YOUR MAMA!

173

So I guess this document must be phony, or forged, or something, and the state of Hawaii must be lying when their officials certify that Obama was born in that state.

If you had gone to the trouble of reading the press release it states-

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai�i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai�i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama�s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures"

All the state of Hawaii claims is they have the birth certificate, not where he is born.

174

Hoosierbrad,

I�m going out on a limb here because I�m not sure you can follow an argument. FactCheck.org states:

"In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen."

And the boys at FactCheck uploaded several pics of them fondling the same green COLB found on Obama�s site.

But if you look at the small print on the bottom of the COLB, you�ll see the words "ANY ALTERATIONS INVALIDATE THIS CERTIFICATE" in big bold uppercase letters.

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

In other words, according to the terms printed on the COLB, you are looking at an invalid certificate because it was doctored (scanned, resized, and compressed) for Internet use.

Therefore, unless Obama presents a VALID birth certificate, which is not the same as a COLB, he has not answered the question regarding his place of birth. Then, once he answers that question, he has about 5 other questions he has to answer � everything from his dual loyalties arising from dual "natural born" citizenships to how he enjoyed dual citizenship in Indonesia when it did not allow dual citizenship to how he entered Pakistan, etc.

You would think that a Harvard-trained Constitutional attorney would be able to answer these questions at the drop of hat � but then again, there�s a reason that this Harvard-trained Constitutional attorney has consistently ignored the questions. And Occam�s Razor says that it�s most likely because he cannot answer the question without losing something dear to him � such as his eligibility to hold the office of POTUS.

175 I Love Occam's Razor references!  How the fuck did he travel to Pakistan in 1980? Indonesian passport?  If so, WHERE is that one now? Makes you wonder about that whole passport snooping scandal earlier this year. Within a year something shocking will be exposed and this guy will make Tricky Dick look like a choir boy.  This whole election would make PT Barnum proud.  The fact that we are STILL discussing this matter and it wasn't forced out by the media in the spring of this year makes me the most pissed off.  I am boycotting all MSM news, including Foxnews.  8 or 9 lawsuits against this guy, two at the SCOTUS level and nary a mention.  Apparently they don't want to sully their hands with such tabloid trash.  Meanwhile GE gets a $160 Billion bailout from the FDIC after MSNBC and that polesmoker Matthews did their best Goebels impression in 2008.  My rant is now officially over.

176 My question about this whole thing also relies on logic.  Since we have all of these lawsuits that team Obama is defending (I read three (3) law firms) at, the minimum of $1000 per hour and there appears to be several more suits in the offing, and there is, according to team Obama, nothing deleterious on his birth certificate, then why is he not simply authorizing the release of the vault copy?

Logic would dictate that the release of the COLB would not only make the current suits go away but would prevent any other suits from arising.

177

Logic would dictate that the release of the COLB would not only make the current suits go away but would prevent any other suits from arising.

Not the COLB, the actual 1961 birth certificate which Hawaii confirms that they have in storage.

1) So a we have proof there is one, not a copy.

2) We know where it is.

All it would take is a signature from out president elect to release it per the laws of Hawaii.

 

178 This is the last step in Keyes' brilliant senatorial campaign agaisnt Obama.

179

There�s an irony here as well. On the one hand, Obama freely admits that he�s a "natural born citizen" of Kenya, whereas on the other hand he refuses to lift a finger to prove that he�s a "natural born citizen" of the USA.

Well, I�m not sure "irony" is the correct term.

180 178: LOL!

181

How predictable that a Douihe bag acts like the typical Libtard and bashes Keyes .. it is the same lack of Intellect that bashed W for 8 Yeras but never bothered to present alternative solutions other than waving white flags .. ignosring Energy needs.. Education needs.. caving in tp all Union Demands with the Current Economic debacle based strictly on Liberal Libtards agenda...

Well Douche bag let's see what Benitobama will be doing with a bunch of left over the hill Clintonistas to create another bubble like the telecom one and giving in to Unions so that in 2 years Detroit will be looking for more Tax payers hand outs instead of reorganizing under Chapter 11 and just may be become Competitive against the Foreign Owned Car companies that are Profitably making and selling good productes made by American Workers.. right here in the USA.

And ACE if Benito does not produce a Veryfiable Birth Ceryificate.. There always be Time to get him out of Office later... We the People, not to be confused with You The Servants, will rise up and demand it!!!

182

This is a bizarre deal.  He should just produce it and not put it out via Daily Kos.  However, at this point it may be seriously counterproductive for the sake of this country.  If he is not a citizen and not eligible to be president, and is therefore removed, lock the door and get ready for bedlam.  4 years of Obama as president may be better than the damage removing him at this point could do.  Of course, this is why they should produce that thing in the beginning.

183 Ok, seriously, none of you see this demand that he produce his birth certificate for inspection the slightest bit ... Racist? Xenophobic? Moronic?

Why didn't John McCain have to submit his birth certificate for forensic analysis? Oh yeah, I forgot, he's white and doesn't have a foreign sounding name, so he doesn't have to prove he's American to a bunch of online bigots.

I know you guys aren't big fans of the media, but you don't think maybe *somebody* would have discovered it if he wasn't a citizen or eligible for election? Ok, forget the "liberal media" then. How about the scores of people that the GOP has on staff getting paid to do "oppo" research full time? Are they part of the big conspiracy too? Or just so woefully incompetent that they've overlooked the fact that the opposing parties candidate wasn't eligible for office? No, I give them more credit than that, the Republican political machine is pretty damned impressive (most elections, if not the latest one).

Obama is not only a citizen... He's now YOUR President! If you want to go after him on policy issues or ideology, go ahead and shred him, that's your legitimate right of dissent. But if you expect anybody to listen to the points you are trying to make, do yourself a favor and stop the bullshit rumor mongering and coded attempts at race baiting.

Oh, and that also goes for the "girlfriend" angle. Could not be more trivial. Nobody wanted to ask McCain about all of his infidelities (in other words, ask him "SO HOW DID YOU AND CINDY MEET?"). If Obama does turn out to have had an affair, we'll hear all about what a big character issue that is, even though we heard zero about McCain's well-documented and colorful "character" during the campaign. But it's all bullshit. The pair of them could have had a three way with Monica Lewinsky and it would have little real bearing on their job performance ultimately. Americans aren't electing a goddamn Pope, they want a President who shows up on time and knows what the fuck he is doing - i.e. NOT George W.

184

There has been opposition research. Berg claims to have a document from Kenya saying the specific time he was born at Coast Provincial Hospital (one of two in Mombasa, Kenya).

The only way we can know whether their documents are forged or fakes is the same way we know if Obama's claimed certification of live birth is: by seeing the vault originals. Obama's records in Kenya have been declared sealed by government officials, according to Jerome Corsi. What records would there be if he was not born there? And it was shortly after Corsi noted that he had spoken to officials in Kenya and had been told he could not see Obama's records there that Corsi was arrested by over a dozen armed men and detained without his cell phone until he was personally escorted to his plane and told to rot in Hell.

The only person who can settle this once for all is Barack Obama. He is spending probably millions by now in order to not have to prove his claimed document was real. He won't even do the simple thing of letting document experts look at the COLB he claims his campaign office in Chicago has. He let FactCheck (who has documentably lied for Barack throughout the campaign) look at it for 6 - count 'em, six - minutes. And that's that.

When I called my secretary of state to ask who has to verify the eligibility of a presidential candidate I was stunned. The answer is nobody. That's N-O-B-O-D-Y. Zilch. Nada. If we have questions we can try to find out, but without the consent of the candidate we can't PROVE a darned thing.

Most people assume that the opposition can find out information and that the media will report bombshell news. But every informed person in the world knew about the Khalidi farewell tape that the LA Times has. But in spite of massive pressure, LA Times would not print even a transcript of it. That totally blows out of the water all the claims that conspiracy theories about the media are insane. Pretty much documents that the media will hide whatever it wants, regardless of the significance. And that is the biggest threat America faces, in my humble but fairly well-informed opinion.

185 Why didn't John McCain have to submit his birth certificate for forensic analysis? Yeah, actually, he did because he was born in the Canal Zone. So, you're an idiot.

186 Keep spinning your wheels, losers.   You keep good company with rabid Jew-hating Andy Martin, 911 Twoofer Phil Berg, and UFO afficianado Jeff Rense.

It's good to see the Digital Brownshirts ahead of the curve when it comes to the transition--you're already wallowing in loony-bin conspiracy theories. 

How soon before you start blaming him for Vince Foster's death?

187 1.  If Obama is not natural born, he could not have been selected candidate AND Joe Biden is up a creek -- he is illegitimate.

2.  If Obama takes office and he is not natural born, then ALL that Obama does will be illegitimate, fraudulent, illegal, unenforceable, and void.

That Obama is essentially hiding (by sealing) his original birth certificate indicates a high probability that Obama has something to hide and may very well NOT be natural born.

188

FACTCHECK IS OWNED BY ANNENBERG CORPORATION.  A FUCKING WEBSITE ISN'T A LEGAL DOCUMENT, YOU STUPID FUCK! 

***sigh***

My son got his learner's permit ONLY AFTER producing the original birth certificate.  You people really think I could just tell Penndot to go see Factcheck for my son's birth certificate??? 

OBAMA SUPPORTERS ARE A BUNCH OF FUCKING LEMMINGS!!!!!

189 I think we have 50 secretary of states , who have sworn an oath to uphold the CONSTITUTION, who only have ONE JOB!!!ENFORCE THE CONSTITUTION AND THEY DIDN'T DO THEIR JOB!!!! They shouls be IMPEACHED!!!! The FIX is in on this! From the president on down, no one will touch this!!!COMPLETE SILENCE from Fox news, Rush , Hannity, O'Reilly,ect You have a CLERK at the SUPREME COURT, his name in DANNY BICKEL, A CLERK, who is deciding what cases should go before the Justices!!! A CLERK?????????? Go to :thenatualborncitizenblogspot.com

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