1 I fucking hate these queers. 

Red Rover, Red Rover we'll send David on over.

2 I thought we got rid of all these losers a week ago.

3 Alex, we fucking nominated one of them for our candidate.  We're not getting rid of them any time soon.  It's time to start winning seats under a different party name.  This "change" and "reform" from within isn't working.

4 There was a time when I thought this puke was a minor Buckley of sorts. Now he just seems to be a concern troll.

5

Social conservatives must limit their positions to the main amounts.  like Abortion.  I think 80% of GOP believe that abortion is wrong.  This we can agree on.  while some soccon  might want to go and make homosexuality illegal this is a non starter.  We can make a stand on defense of marriage at the state level, abortion  and freedom of religion in the public square. 

 

I think if soccons can get those three loegs of the stool they will be happy and show up to vote ion great numbers. 

Republicians can shoot for smaller gov, less taxes, balanced budgets, pro-life, pro-marrage, pro adoption, pro military.  Wrap it all up  you have all fractions comfortable with the partry.  this isn't rocket science. send the social issues  downstate.  Federalism is taliored for social issues.  If NY wants to be the baby murder capital of the country that's their problem.  If MA wants to have gay martrage and cause their population to go extinct fine.  More power too you.  If TX wants to have a prayer at halftime they should be allowed to. 

 

6 Where unseen does his best David Brook's impression.

Bravo.

7 something useful would be an attempt at Geraghty's "9 at 90," an attempt to define 9 positions that 90% of conservatives agree on.

Those would, obviously, unite the party.

That doesn't mean you abandon positions upon which there is less agreement, but you unite the party with those 9.

And those are almost certainly popular enough to be vote winners among moderates as well.

8 I get it, we should advocate quasi-statism as a way to peel votes away from the statists.

9

If a liberal wants to vote for our candidate .. great, thanks for the vote.

But:

We do not Pander or Appease.

We take no Quarter with Morality.

We are Strong Republicans with Great Principles.

 

If you want constantly vapid and morphing malarkey, then go over ot the Deathacrats, they appear to offer Change, but nothing else. 

10 How dare you accuse me of wanting to make the Republican Party more liberal you silly blogger boy! Don't you know I write for the NY Times and regularly appear on PBS. Why, for years I even supported John McCain for President until he picked that dolt Palin and that dreamy Obama ran.

More liberal? Peeshaw!

In short, I am a very important member of the media and I will not be spoken to in this way.

Now if you'll excuse me I must join my dear friend, the wise and talented Peggy Noonan on the squash court.

Good day to you Mr. Spades!

11 I don't ignore him because I disagree with him, I ignore him because he's boring as hell, and alludes rather than states a conviction, like it's some sort of game so he can keep being called "conservative".

12 One thing I agree on is that social issues are pushed too prominently.  I realize a lot of these animate the base, but there's a problem when it comes to attracting centrist voters:

Obviously, a lot of moderates either disagree or are not animated by these issues much either way.

And that leads to a second problem:  While I agree  with some (but not all) of the social agenda, it suggests to many voters a lack of serious about non-social issues (it's the economy, stupid) when the party seems to be spending an inordinate amount of time on such matters.

But we're in a bit of a trap, because those issues do animate lots of voters we need, and if we're quieter on them (even while still advocating them) we turn of those voters.  On the other hand, if we push them too much we turn off other voters.

The thing is, everyone agrees that the economy and national defense are major issues.  Especially the economy. National defense sometimes goes away as a big issue (see the Clinton years), but the economy never, ever does.  And the problem is that anytime you're talking about social issues you're NOT talking about the economy.

I don't think this is a *major* problem.  But I do think it is a minor problem.  Republicans have to be more wonk-ish and speak more about tangible changes in economic policy and not rely as heavily on talking up social issues.

13 So, those 9 are?  Or has Geraghty already written that script and I missed it?

Well, let's see - here they are for me, not necessarily in order of importance:

1.)  National Defense (include closed boarders in this)
2.)  Personal Sovereignty ( Less government is more; government is the problem, etc.)
3.)  2nd amendment is included in all 10 Bill of Rights
4.)  American Exceptionalism (and the spread there of)
5.)  Congressional Frugality, transparency
6.)  Energy independence (and nuking Pooty Poo)
7.)  Educational Freedom (vouchers if that's what you want to call it)
8.)  Corruption is anathema
9.)  If all else fails we take over Alaska and secede... Aye!

14 And I think some Republicans get elected on a social agenda -- which is fine -- but then don't get wonky about the economy. 

I wish that the Club for Freedom would host an Economic Policy Boot-Camp running two months or so.  And we could get every Republican politician and spokesman in that program to bone up.

15 Oh, and I'm a hard core so-con and you'll see not one listed above.

16 David Brooks is a fatal cancer on the Republican party.

17 i'd want to do a 6 at 60 -- six issues that grab 60% or more of the entire country's support.

 I can think of only four off the top of my head:

All of the Above Energy Policy

Border Security

Missile Defense (liberals are really on the wrong side of this issue, and we need to crucify them on it)

2nd Amendment rights with *some* commonsense regulation (like instant background check, etc. -- stuff the NRA generally approves of)

18 Ace, I'm always skeptical of concepts that people like Brooks pitches that are also being aped by liberals. Liberals of course view this as a sign of angst within the Republican ranks.

In short, the distinction between "intellectual" conservatives and liberals is increasingly blurry.

19

Editor at November 13, 2008 11:29

 

I narrow it down to three:

1) Life.  (pro-abortion, adoption, 100% guilt before death penalty)

2) Liberty ( secured nation, no indentured sevatude (no illegal immigration, lower taxes, less government, less laws, freedom in the bedroom, etc)

3) pursuit of happiness (economic, sexual, recreational drugs, no censorship, personal responsibility, dealing with consequences of actions on your own)

 

20 You'll get more wisdom from some random wino sleeping one off on a park bench than you will from Brooks.

21

Is Brooks a queer?

22

unseen at November 13, 2008 11

 

oops  should be anti-abortion.  getting late.

23 I'd like to throw in "abolishing the IRS" as a platform issue, too.  I think that would rally the base like you've never seen.  Additionally, it couldn't really be attacked by the left without them justifiably appearing to defend the establishment they so dearly rail against.

24

Editor

 

Good one.  No IRS.  If a real conservative ever wins the presidentacy.  The first thing he should do is fire all IRS agents.  Then tell the people to just send in what they think is fair.  And than tell Congress to suck on that

 

25 by the way, I don't really think there's anyone with any sway right now who has the balls to suggest abolishing the IRS.

Bush hinted during the 2004 campaign that he was interested in studying the Fair Tax plan more, but that was all it was.  A hint.  Never a real interest.

26 One thing I agree on is that social issues are pushed too prominently. I realize a lot of these animate the base, but there's a problem when it comes to attracting centrist voters:

The thing is the right's social issue positions are *much* more popular then the right's economic positions.

Compare CA's prop 8 with MA's prop 1.

27 Jets Win!

28 How about a 1 at 100%:

Promise to dismantle the failed government.  All those institutions that are harming the US have to go.  Name them, put up a list and tell the American public why it is in their best interest for these programs to go.

29 Ooooooooo.... and kicking out he UN from the US.

UN out of the US!!!  Yeah - EVERYONE's up for that one. 

30 Ann Coulter nailed it, as usual:

In January this year, Brooks boasted of McCain's ability to attract "independents."

And then Election Day arrived, and all the liberals who had spent years praising McCain all voted for Obama. Independents voted for Palin or voted against Obama. No one outside of McCain's immediate family was specifically voting for McCain.

But now Brooks presumes to lecture Republicans about what to do next time. How about: "Don't take David Brooks' advice"?

According to Brooks, the reason McCain lost was -- naturally -- that he ran as a conservative. If only presidential candidates would spurn polls, modern political history, evidence from campaign rallies, facts on the ground and listen to the wishful thinking of Times columnists!

If McCain lost because he ran as a conservative, then how come I knew McCain was going to lose before Brooks did? About the same time Brooks was touting McCain's uncanny ability to attract independents, I was writing, accurately: "John McCain is Bob Dole minus the charm, conservatism and youth."

31 The "Fair Tax" has - as a side benefit - a voluntary registration component.

That is: illegal aliens would be more heavily taxed than citizens who don't mind giving the government a permanent residence to which their tax return can be sent.

IIRC, this means about $2000 a year in taxes for staying off the books.

32

I'm Christian and very pro-life but my favorites of the candidates in the primaries were Romney, then Rudy. (I didn't really hear much about Fred) I didn't care for Huckabee, or McCain - the two more socially conservative, I think. 

I'm no expert but I think a big problem is that people like Dobson will likely not publically endorse candidates like Romney and Rudy, and the media will make a huge deal out of things like that (whether or not it would even impact the vote much, aside from making the soc. con's look a little deeper into the candidates). Then the middle of the roaders will rush in to try and disassociate themselves with the religious wackos/social conservatives and come across as condescending offensive assholes, and that, I think, would piss people off and might be enough incentive to make them stay home on election day.  

33 David Brooks = leper with warts

34

You know what would bring in more voters? Pictures of Michelle Malkin in a swimsuit.

THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT!

35 http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=278091#c3402549

Good point, BUT...

The GOP's economic policies vary in popularity over time, as they have been doing since, well, forever. 

Right now they're not very popular because McCain allowed us to be tarred as responsible for Fannie/Freddie/Crisis.

Also, they can be fine-tuned and adjusted in ways that social policies can't, those being largely binary choices.

36 I only think the right's economic issues are less popular when they're not implemented.  You know, like during 41's & 43's years in office.

37 The thing is, everyone agrees that the economy and national defense are major issues.  Especially the economy.

Yes. Not being an articulate free-marketeer is what lost McCain this election. The republicans need an army of Joe the plumbers who can make the case for the free market.

And in addition to these fights for the soul of the party and getting some new blood in at the RNC, there needs to be a recruitment drive for quality candidates. If we want the center, we need WINNERS. Most of the squishes in the middle that Brooks and his cohort want to win over by being more liberal don't pay attention to policies, they follow a confident leader.

We need a "tip line" of some sort to the RNC where the grassroots can nominate local leaders for advancement. We need scouts who can assess the nominees and judge whether they've got what it takes. And we need "start up" teams available for likely prospects, so a good candidate isn't done in by lack of professional help.

38 Ramesh Ponnuru is another one - a "reformist" type who finds Brooks' a "smart guy." Here's a recent NRO blog post from Ponnuru:

"I've gotten a few emails complaining that the National Review Institute's conference next week on reviving conservatism includes David Brooks, because he is "a RINO" and a "blueblooded elitist." (Blue-blooded? Seriously?) Brooks is a smart guy. You don't have to agree with his every idea, as I do not, to think he has something to contribute to the discussion about the future of conservatism."

Brooks, Ponnuru, Frum, Parker and all the other RINOs are done in my book. I don't want to hear their "ideas."

39 I think more is needed than just a list of 6 or 9 positions that most people can agree with. There should be convincing arguments for each position to show why it is the correct position to hold. Those arguments can be used to win over people who may not already agree with a position, but could be convinced.

40

If our side winning is the main objective, why don't we simply abolish the Republican Party and all become Democrats, then we will win every election every time!  We'll all be winners!

Unless of course there are some who really couldn't give a sh*t about those prissy little political clubs called parties, and instead care more about actually getting certain things done and certain specific policies implemented.  Why the hell would anyone want a Republican in office if all he or she is going to do is implement Democrat policies???

And, forget about stopping or boycotting, what kind of idiot is it that ever started reading Brooks??

41 Will - the NRO is done.  Human Events will soon be the place to go, as soon as they implement their own "Corner"

42 Good one. No IRS. If a real conservative ever wins the presidentacy. The first thing he should do is fire all IRS agents. Then tell the people to just send in what they think is fair. And than tell Congress to suck on that

I've asked a few liberals who complain taxes are too low why they don't pay more voluntarily then instead of demanding *I* pay more. I've yet to get a cogent answer.

43 lmg wins the obvious award for tonight.

44 For the question of why McCain lost, I'd say that his campaign needed to do three things;

1) Convince conservatives he wasn't about to just use and abuse them...again. He succeeded by picking Palin.

2) Pin the blame for the mortgage meltdown squarely where it belonged. He didn't even try.

3) Show how Obama is an across the board radical. McCain was tepid here, slightly hitting Obama on his tax and spend policies - but Obama basically just promised free money for everyone and deflected the attack. A sustained attack on Obama's abortion record and would probably have been more effective.

45 I guess I'll quit while I'm ahead.

46 lmg,

You have the right idea, but hey, let's decide what those issues are gonna be. Then we can work on focusing our arguments and building public opinion in favor of them.

47 yeah, lmg, i wasn't knocking you for having the idea.  Just, you know, it kinda seems like it goes with the territory, right?

48 And the problem is that anytime you're talking about social issues you're NOT talking about the economy.

Uh, most people can do both. If the voters were serious about the economy, they wouldn't have voted for Obama whose only economical plan is to tax every fucking thing. Do I think we should have a serious economic plan? Of course. Do we have to go all libtard on social issues? No.

There seems to be this nonstop drumming that the GOP must swing left - forget it.

49

Incidentally, a while ago I suggested that people really shouldn't be reading David Brooks. Some commenters disagreed, stating that it's important to read differing positions within the movement.

Even for those who refuse to make a judgement on idealogical grounds, what is Brooks' track record as a pundit so far?  He told us we needed to nominate McCain to win the general (which we did), and he told us we needed to reach out to the center to win the general (which we did), and we got our asses handed to us on platters.  The man is either a clown or a double agent.

50 Why do all the RINOS come across as metrosexuals?

51

edit:  I should have said, "our sore, bleeding asses handed to us on platters."  I need to learn take a minute before hitting post.

52 I can't stand Brooks - he reminds me of every pseudo-intellectual liberal pussy in NYC that I know - but we desperately need to reclaim the affluent suburbs and I don't know how we do that without softening the edges on social issues. We can keep telling ourselves that the natural inclination among blacks and hispanics is toward social conservatism and that we'll eventually make inroads there, but it is illusory.

53

What's stupid to me is people arguing over whether this last Republican campaign was too conservative or too liberal.  It lost because it utterly failed to develop and campaign on a coherent economic plan, and we nominated a guy who never gave a shit about economic policy.  Period.  Having a coherent economic plan isn't particularly Reformist or Traditionalist, even if you buy what Brooks is selling. 

And I want to know who decided that preventing two guys from getting a piece of paper saying they are married became a fundamental tenet of the conservative movement. 

This is not the conservative movement I knew, at least not when I joined it in 1980.  Ronald Reagan would not even recognize this thing that calls itself a conservative movement today.

54 Well, I wasn't seeing it. During the campaign positions were being asserted by both sides with no argument to back them up. Like: The financial crisis was caused by Wall Street greed. Or: It is right and fitting that 5% of the population should pay more taxes while everybody else gets a tax cut.

55 i'd want to do a 6 at 60 -- six issues that grab 60% or more of the entire country's support.

 I can think of only four off the top of my head:

All of the Above Energy Policy

Border Security

Missile Defense (liberals are really on the wrong side of this issue, and we need to crucify them on it)

2nd Amendment rights with *some* commonsense regulation (like instant background check, etc. -- stuff the NRA generally approves of)


Posted by: ace at November 13, 2008 11:33 PM (8T2pi)


I think 7 at 70% sounds luckier.  Winner winner, chicken dinner!

Though I'd have to think really hard on what those 7 things should be.

56 Great piece.

I've hated DB's stuff for years now.  If his stuff wasn't published in the NY Times, I don't think I'd every have to think about what this guy has on his mind ever again.

He has no ideas.  He's like a child with diarrhia -- the shit just keeps on coming with no end in sight.

57

#'s 0-5

I echo your sentiments and raise you one disappointment.  Read PJ O'Rourke's latest piece in the Weekly Standard.

I have, and maybe still,  love O'Rourke's cynical analysis of government, but anyone who reads this piece cannot help but suspect that PJ has succumbed to his environment and joined Peggy Noonan in that great elitist, country club world of Washington politics.  It is much harder to fight than join.

Read the piece before this screed ...

PJ, I lament your loss.  You have been one of the most intelligent and honest analysts of my lifetime, and influenced me greatly. 

I agree that the economy is our main issue, but please explain the Code Pink foreign policy analysis in your piece.

If you want to articulate an alternative policy, by all means do so.  If you simply choose out of a fit of pique to echo the diary of Medea Benjamin, do it in private, not in the Standard.

I would like to think that you believe differently, but I am forced by the tone of your own words to assume that you believe we should not have attacked Iraq in 03 (the country that you said we should have stomped the first time) and should not attack anyone else anytime soon because we are all full of shit.

Stomp in 91; hug in 2004 ?  See a dichotomy there ?

As someone who has read everything you have written since Modern Manners, with all due respect - what you suggested in the Standard was not poltically viable, even outside the "Ayn Rand Cafe"

McCain lost the country because, by the end of the campaign, he was indistinguishable from his own opponent, not because he was some wild-eyed Randy Weaver bringing the "Protestant Trailer Park" Kool-Aid down from the Mount. 

Consider the debates - Obama claimed he'd take care of those pissed-off folks with mortgages.  McCain said "Well, my friends, I'll out-do Obama and offer to have Uncle Sucker pay those off."

That's a supposed Republican speaking ?   And yes, Mr. O'Rourke, you are correct in stating that he followed the Bush policy over 8 years in that regard. 

I could go on but I know I'm preaching to a large choir.

PJ - Now I get it.  I'm not from New England, I didn't go to one of your chowd prep schools (nor did you), and you think I'm an ignorant hayseed.  Despite my years-long financial support of your book-writing career, you chose to lump me and my friends (to whom I have always recommended your writing, to your continued profit) into the category of "trailer-park Protestants." 

To which I say - have fun in Washington for the next four years, PJ.  I hope you and Peggy have lots of social invites.  Tell everyone you're a Libertarian instead of a Conservative, and all those God-thumping freaks are nuts.

I used to self-identify same way, until I saw your Weekly Standard declaration of personal political surrender.

Now I'm going to guzzle me some of that Kool-Aid.  Because there's truth in it - truth, principle, and philosophical consistency.  Hell, I might even belive me in some Jeeezus.  Beecuz of U acting like an elitest asshole.

You might actually get Bill Safire's job someday.  Good luck selling many more books.  Ask McCain how many liberals still supported him when they realized they could run the show without him - thanks to you and your non-trailer park, non-Protestant friends. 

With friends like y'all - weez don't need no ememeez.

58

Some writers of high "esteem," but whose purported intelligence--much less value to the conservative movement--has always escaped me:

David Brooks

David Frum

George Will

John Podhoretz

I've never read anything incisive from any one of them, although I guess Podhoretz is OK. But none of the coxuckers are even as valuable as the typical NRO hack and they shouldn't even be on the same internet as Mark Steyn, Jonah Goldberg, Ann Coulter, or James Lileks.

I confess that I did trust Peggy Noonan and quite rated her, in spite of all her breathy flourishes and "big sister finally leveling with you" kind of affected intimacy.

59 One more thing: Star Parker is perhaps the most underrated conservative columnist there is. She's fantastic.

60

#58 - Not to belabor a point, but add PJ to that list.  I've read a shitload of absolutely brilliant stuff from him, but I'd prefer Coulter in my foxhole over him anyday.  Even before his latest capitulation. 

I know, assholes.  She looks a lot better.  Not my point.

BTW, Ann, I'm digging as we speak...

61 George Will's crappy baseball writing should disqualify him ahead of time.

Note, again, that the only real conservative columnists live outside the NY-DC axis:  Steyn and VDH.

62 Steyn ROCKS! Spinning George Will's bow-tie in Saturday night's video putt-putt gives me GREAT pleasure.

63 If we were like Obama, we'd find a complete Cipher who just happens to pal around with abortion clinic bombers, Opus Dei people, and the John Birch Society.

Said Cipher would run only on economic issues and maybe federalism.

When asked about these associations, said Cipher would call them "distractions! at a time of national need for economic reforms, these DISTRACTIONS, are not going to help our children."

Oh, and have the dude support legalized pot, but then like back-track once elected.

64

The liberal wing of the party see their ascendancy threatened. They see sites like this one viciously attacking them and calling for their ouster from the party so they are fighting back.

 

If they want a liberal party why don’t they just become Democraps?  There is no reason to have a Republican Party if it is going to reflect the same values as the damn socialists.  AND once and for all, NO THE OPPOSITION TO ABORTION is not the driving force for the Republican Party. It is one part, but not the major driver.

 

These idiots will have the Republican Party marginalized to the point where they get fewer votes than the Green Party. Pundits like Brooks need to be ridiculed and driven into the Dem camp, which they already are in secret.

 

I would bet that Brooks voted for Obama even though McCain was a liberal.

 

65
I claim no particular insight into what motivates the electorate at large, but here's the six issues that motivate me:

1. Elections and Democracy: Each citizen permitted by his state to vote, gets one vote, period. No ballot-box stuffing. If elections are not free and fair, nothing else matters.

2. Economy: Government must live within its means. Don't spend it if you don't have it. No earmarks: period.

3. Defense: It is better to be feared than loved: Kill the bastards who want to kill us,and leave the survivors are very, very afraid of us.

4. Foreign Policy: Promote free trade and openness. More than that is beyond our power.

5. Energy: More nukes, less fossil fuels. I'd dearly love to tell Chavez and the House of Saud to take their oil and stick it where the sun don't shine.

6. Social Policy: There are entire realms of human life that are, or should be, off limits to politics. Some of them are enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Government will not regulate speech, or arms ownership, or free association, or religion.

Oh, and I might add: our candidates are not messiahs, or lightbearers, or philosopher-kings, or any other sort of superior being. They're citizens who who pull on their pants (or pantyhose) one leg at a time, and who will administer and execute the business of the nation in order to make things somewhat better for as many as possible. Humility in the face of the complexity of human affairs should be a prerequisite for hold high office.

66

I think Ann Coulter is right - if the NYT likes a conservative, that probably means there is something wrong - to conservatives - about that conservative.

I used to listen to NPR in the mornings in the 90s.  After the 94 elections, they decided they needed to have some commentators from the "right" to help decipher that alien world.  They always managed to have on people who were "conservative" but, guess what - highly critical of conservatives.  Howard Phillips, and David Frum were the two standouts in the category.

In Brooks the Left has a new house Conservative.  He writes books, he isn't all declasse about abortion and won't get hung up on gay Scoutmasters and all that, doesn't get all in your face with a flag pin - very non-threatening. 

But the Republican party does not need to learn how to win from losers.  Preach all you want, but remember, as Ann said, McCain was loved by the NYT, until he became a serious candidate.  Bush and Rove ran to the right and won.  Bush governed more liberal than he campaigned, he wrecked the party, and we sent a lefter guy in to try to pick up the pieces.  Oh wait, it was the Democrats and Independents in the primaries that picked him. 

And then we are supposed to believe that it wasn't the top of the ticket that failed, but the VP candidate? 

So I think the next time around, liberals get to pick the candidate in the liberal party, and conservatives in the conservative party.  Then vote.  Sound like a good idea?

 

 

67 Funny ... the Democrats responded to Reagan how?

By becoming more Conservative? 

Nope.

They veered awesomely LEFT ... and won.

So David Brooks - kiss my ass.  Republicans should veer RIGHT.

And if they veer left ... count me out.  2008 was the last time I will EVER ... EVER ... vote for a liberal Republican.

68

 

Nice post Ace.

Although I believe that it was written at too high a level for the average moron to wrap his shrunken brain around. I found myself going back to reread a sentence or two.

Dumb it down, eh? We're not all rocket surgeons here.

 

69

Get off your knees, Brooks!

I know when I'm licked.

70 I wouldn't throw PJ in with those others, at all. His recent column was a little disappointing and seemed to be kind of derivative and lazy, I'll agree.

But he's a humorist, and as such, he's always been kind of libertarian, had a bit of a paleocon isolationist streak, and significant irreverence for the social conservatives; and he's always been funny in that direction, without going over the top. I don't think there's a way that a guy can be that funny and simultaneously a serious moralist.

Either way, he's P.J. O'Rourke, one of the greatest American humorists in history, and he's still largely on our side; he's going to have to go on a serious Kool-Aid binge before I throw him under the bus.

71 The significance of this alleged "ideological divide" in the Republican party is greatly overblown... the fact is the Republicans got beat precisely because they deserved to lose. They did a bad job at the helm over these last 4 years and the voters decided to give the other guys a shot. That is simply how it usually works amongst the less politically active centrist middle of the country. No point in reading some sort of existential crisis into something far more mundane.

That being said, the "reformers" have no votes behind them so they can just fuck right off.

72 A question for somebody smarter than me-which ought to be easy, given all the statistical analyses lying (heh) around.

Did Obama get elected because of Republicans voting for him?  Or because Republicans, in large numbers did not vote?

73 The quick study I did of States switching was that the base stayed at home. It was 2006 writ large.

74 "Funny ... the Democrats responded to Reagan how?

By becoming more Conservative?

Nope.

They veered awesomely LEFT ... and won."

Well,  actually, my dad pointed out that when Clinton ran for office, he adopted a Republican platform. Not that he meant any of it, of course.

75 A man's gotta eat

76 I get it, we should advocate quasi-statism as a way to peel votes away from the statists.

Yeah, this was the McCain campaign strategy. Worked real good.

77

I'm young.  I've never seen the Republican party try actually sticking with conservativism.  Let's try that before we dustbin the ideology altogether and try out-populisting the populists. 

I agree with you Ace.  Brooks, and a lot of other pundits for that matter, need to get behind their actual opinions and state things clearly.  This way we'll know them for what they are and we can discard them accordingly.

78

Once again, getting conservatives to unite for any period of time is like herding stray cats while blindfolded.  Individualism is the core trait of a conservative and I find that if you diss what he believes to be his #1 issue, he will shun you in favor of that issue even though you agree on the remaining issues. Stubborn moral righteouness can be a positive as well as a negative.

The exception to this rule for conservatives is in the occasional strong leader or uniting against a common enemy (I don't know why it didn't work this election though I'm suprised as many conservatives supported McCain as they did). In the past most conservatives have had the trait of knowing when other people were smarter than they were and were smart enough to know what they didn't know. I think that trait has been diminished over the years.

That said, the major issues I see to promote the Republican party are

1.  Return to individual responsiblity in combination with a coherent message about where your tax dollars are spent ( oppose earmarks, support tax cuts, infrastructure, etc.

2. Military

3. Return to being the party that best protects the Citizens from crime

4. Reduce federalism where appropriate.

79

 had a bit of a paleocon isolationist streak

His amnesty advocation made Lindsay Graham blush.

80

made Lindsay Graham blush

I thought Graham supported amnesty. In any case I voted against him as I told him in the last letter I sent him.

I did a write in as the libertarians didn't have anyone running.

81

All of the Above Energy Policy

Border Security

Missile Defense (liberals are really on the wrong side of this issue, and we need to crucify them on it)

2nd Amendment rights with *some* commonsense regulation (like instant background check, etc. -- stuff the NRA generally approves of)

School choice.

Lower taxes.

Lower spending, congressional reform, and prosecuting corruption. Congressmen are not above the law. We should be banging this like a drum (but we can't unless we clean up). No reform legislation - promise to sick the fuckin FBI on them with relentless fury.

Opisition to activist judges imposing things like gay marriage, and also degrading all our OTHER ammendment rights besides the 2nd - Kelo vs. New London shredding our property rights, McCain Feingold strangling your free speech.

And I wouldn't push gay marriage on our voter base. They're either already in the choir or chucking molitovs at the church. It's not a 'white issue'. Run it (and other social issues) on spanish language radio/TV and in black urban areas and black church outreach (but don't expect 1 iota of success against Obama).

82

I thought Graham supported amnesty.

He did.

That was kinda the point of the phrase.

83

And the problem is that anytime you're talking about social issues you're NOT talking about the economy.

I'd like to see a conservative point out when the social issues have economic impacts, often very serious ones.

84

One thing the reformers do have right:

The Reformers propose new policies to address...middle-class economic anxiety.

The reformers are right--there IS a lot of anxiety. But they are WRONG WRONG WRONG about the source of the middle-class anxiety. It's cultural unease. Which means:

Cut government, cut taxes, restrict immigration.

Perhaps "cutting government" is the wrong term, but rather, stop feeding a government hell-bent (via activist judges and bad welfare policies) on shaking up the American culture further. As long as the poison of "multiculturalism" infects the American body politic, we simply cannot take in the numbers of immigrants that we do. And I say this as somone who married one.

And the fact that the "reformers"

...tend to take global warming seriously

is prima facie evidence of how deluded they are.

85

The guy has crafted a career out of splitting the difference. He knows that he's one conservative stance away from being zipped up in the NYT's gimp outfit, so he qualifies everything. Of course, if he comes right out and declares himself a liberal sucker of cock, the frisson of daring that NYT loves about having a--sacre bleu!--conservative on the masthead is lost. Also, their paper-thin veneer of "balance" is lost.

Brooks' favorite phrase? "On the other hand."

When the revolution comes, Brooks gets neither cigarette nor blindfold.

86 Framing the debate

What conservatives need to do is frame the debate in its proper context.

When someone says Roe versus Wade, we should say "the right to pass laws based on our elected leaders".   Roe isn't about abortion but about the right of the legislature(s) to make laws.

When someone says universal healthcare, we should say "so you want the feds making your healtcare decisions?"  or "So you want your involvement in your family's  healthcare to be limited to a single vote every couple of years instead of a free marketplace?"

They only win by disguising the results of their idiotic ideas, which they frame as "new" and "progressive" but in fact are old and proven failures.

87

The social conservative vs. libertarian debate is going to be irrelevant unless the Republican party can get back to limited government and personal responsibility. 

It is going to be tough to get the message across given the current mindset of that Government can solve all problems.

 

 

 

 

88 You nailed it, Ace.  BTW I live in the UK and Brooks' claim that David Cameron has modernised his party is laughable.  The Tories have been out of power since 1997 and seem content to just wait for the voters to tire of Labour and/or Labour to make big mistakes.  Their policy positions basically come to "We like Labour's ideas, but we can do it better!"  They are actually afraid to call for tax cuts, and a few months ago there was a bill to lower the gestational age limit for abortions to 12 weeks (as in the rest of continental Europe apart from  a few places).  Cameron voted against 12 weeks, 16 weeks, and 20 weeks.  He did vote for 22 weeks.  Really f'in big of him, eh?  The Tories can "kiss my arse." 

Mark Steyn says that ideas win elections.  The Republicans have none right now.  The Tories haven't had any in about 20 years.  We need to start thinking and start the ball rolling on ideas that will resonate with both conservatives and moderates. 

89  "Given a choice between a Moderate Republican and a Liberal Democrat, people will vote for a Democrat", Happened in 92, 96 and 08...

90 We just tried it Brook's way--is he advocating a McCain in '12!-campaign already?

Hawkins makes a good point--liberal Repubs are helped when traditional Repubs are strong. When the base is weak, those marginal office-holders are picked off.

The real point of Brook's piece is that we are embarassing him and we need to stop it. It's okay if coastal liberals insult our "sensibilities", but we've got to indulge theirs, says Brooks. He's the anti-Reagan, advocating not bold colors, but pale pastels.

McCain earmark reforms are now dead. His Fannie Mae Reforms were blocked by Democrats. Campaign finance was just assaulted, robbed and dumped out of the car in the bad part of town by a professional vote-thief and foreign money launderer. Comprehensive immgration reform both failed and left McCain unwilling to mention Obama Illegal Alien DMV, driver's licenses for foreign scofflaws.

Biden never reformed anything. Obama didn't reform Chicago, it reformed him. Mccain's reforms have largely been blunted. The one sucessful reformer is the one Brooks dislikes; the "traditionalist" reformer Gov. Sarah Palin. She has been wildly sucessful in her reforms, as has Gov. Jindal and Gov. Pawlenty, proving that reform and tradition can go together, just as our Founders saw themselves not as overturning all established order but appealing to the true and ancient rights of Englishmen. Yes, we must adapt--but we musn't forget.

We just tried it David's way--now let's try it Ronnie's.

91

LOL, “moderate” Republican. I like that term. There is no such thing as a moderate, a moderate is a liberal in denial. You can’t be a little bit liberal. Its like being a little bit pregnant.

92

David Brooks' Conservatism:

I got mine, and the rest of you can go__________ yourselves.

93

Republican's need to rethink the stance on the enviroment.  The Republican stance on global warming is pro-pollution.  I doubt that we are causing the temperature of the earth to rise, but that doesn't mean I am for unrestricted emissions.   We should try to reduce CO2 output by agressively developing aternative energy and nuclear sources.  Stick it to the black gold peddelars and promote a clean healthy enviroment at the same time.

The Democrats own the green issue and the Republicans nead to steal it from them.

94 CA Red, you are FOS. AGW is a fraud and a scam designed to bring in socialism. That global warming BS was one of the main prtoblems with Mccain.

95

CA Red, you are FOS. AGW is a fraud and a scam designed to bring in socialism. That global warming BS was one of the main prtoblems with Mccain.

That said, I sort of like CA Red's "jujitsu argument", if Global Warming is so bad, then by gum we must start building nuke plants. Put the Watermelons on the defensive. Ditto for hydroelectric dams.

The problem with most "green energy" is it is a pipe dream. Solar panels and windmills are not reliable baseload power. Enough solar panels on a hot day might help on a heavy electric load period, but reliable 24 hour a day power? Not a chance. Windmills, moreover, are most effective on windy days--days when the grid isn't going to be taxed by everyone's airconditioner.

96

I’ll go with the Nukes and Dams though. It may be too late for me since I am a retired Nuke worker but it would still be good.

97

Left out the first part:

CA Red strikes me as a “concern” troll.  No true conservative believes in AGW or most of the shit promoted by the liberals as “green”.

98

We should try to reduce CO2 output by agressively developing aternative energy and nuclear sources. 

Why? CO2 is in your soda. CO2 is air for plants. CO2 is plentiful, produced naturally, and not as big a greenhouse gas as H2O.  CO2 is neccessary for life on earth to be sustained.

Stick it to the black gold peddelars

Yeah, stick it to those evil bastards who dare provide us with.... cheap affordable energy.... bastards...

and promote a clean healthy enviroment at the same time.

What is a clean healthy environment? One devoid of any CO2? What ... you want a sterile, lifeless enviroment?

99

The only acceptable alternative to oil and coal is a cheaper one.

Like nuke power. It must be cheaper then oil. That is the point.

Beyond that? Fuck you. Burn rubber tires for power (in someone elses back yard). Whatever. Make it cheap.

100 Whatever. Make it cheap.

Word.  Energy IS prosperity.

101

94-95:

I've used Curmudgeon's argument myself.  Since the Goreacle (the recently appointed "custodian of the planet") predicts that we will reach some kind of pollution "critical mass" in 10 years, after which the Apocalypse will follow, why aren't we building nuclear plants to replace all our nasty coal right now ?  Because they produce waste that we'll have to worry about in 10,000 years ?  Gore says we need radical change  NOW NOW NOW or we're all doomed...  Screw 10,000 years from now, we're all gonna die - aren't we ?

Are the Greens really worried about the future, or do they just want an excuse to demand radical lifestyle changes from evil RedStaters and get government funds for their pet causes ?  Let's find out.

And yes, I do think that McCain's tepid environmentalism was just another example, along with mortgage payoffs, et al, of his "me-too"ism during the campaign.  Run right, son.  You can't out-liberal a liberal, Rove's "Permanent Majority" paid for with my tax dollars notwithstanding.  How'd that work for us, Karl ?

The electorate isn't stupid, our candidates and their staff are.  If they want free shit, they know who to go to, and being the guy who's handing out a little less free shit a little more slowly isn't gonna win their votes.

We have to give the electorate a real choice next time, not Dumb and Dumber.

 

102

Rove's "Permanent Majority" paid for with my tax dollars notwithstanding.  How'd that work for us, Karl ?

Indeed. Rove's foolish "Hispandering" just about did in the Republican party in the Southwest.

103

I wonder if   Brooks was inspired by the mention of "Reformistes" in Marx's "Communist Manifesto" for the name of  his new proposed faction.

http://tinyurl.com/48r54

"The Owenites in England, and the Fourierists in France, respectively, oppose the Chartists and the Reformistes"

104

Re: 91 “moderate” Republican:

The peoplescube has recently established the "The Order of Republican Moderation":

http://tinyurl.com/5hkjmx

 

[...]Like all good progressives, Moderate Republicans accept the historical inevitability of socialist victory over capitalism, only they prefer the change to come in small, orderly steps[...]

105 The electorate isn't stupid

They ain't rocket scientists either.  Half the population has an IQ under 100.

106

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