1 At some point they'll have to stop blaming Bush and begin taking ownership of their problems.

What country are you living in?

2 I blame the 9 days of failed Pres-elect Obama policies.

3 More constructive:  I've always felt that one of the hallmarks of a good leader is that they own failure and share success.  Our leadership in America lies about their success and blames anyone but themselves when something goes wrong.  Bush, rich people, big business, combustion engines, the Christian right...all responsible for what is wrong with America.

4 Shrug baby shrug!

5 Up 552 at the close. Swings in a 900 point range in one day.

Volatility.

Prelude to a permanent Ice Age.

6

The MSM will begin blaming Obama in 4...3....3.....3.....3.....3....3..

Oops we ummm errrrr cant reeelallyy find aahhhhhhhhhh whhaa   a 2 ..... snicker snicker snipe

where are you hiding your number 2?

7 >>>I blame the 9 days of failed Pres-elect Obama policies.

What do they always say of the stock market?  It looks to the economy six months ahead.

Wall Street knows Obama's policies, to the extent they can be known at all, and they are for higher taxes, a punitive cap and trade designed to bankrupt many energy providers, etc.

8 I'm seeing the DJ30 @ +552  That's like a 800 point swing.

What the hell happened at 1 o'clock?  The the G20 summitteers yell April Fool! about the credit crisis?

9 So, um, how about researching a Presidential recall effort?  I mean, just in case.

(I'm willing for him to get into office and do something stupid before I pseudo-secede.  He's no Abraham Lincoln and I'm no The South.)

10 damn lmg and your fast fingers

11 Correlation does not imply causation.

Stock market has a lot of problems. Assigning Obama to be that #1 problem, before he's actually done anything, is a mistake.

Yes, his policies will hurt the economy. Inevitable. The stock market has its own issues - earnings reports, stocks expecting a crappy christmas season, etc.

If you blame Obama for the drop, you have to credit him for the 500 point rise today, right? What did he do to cause that 500 point rise? Nothing. Therefore, he did nothing to cause the drop either.

Patience people. Wait till January 21 before you go over the ledge.

12 Are we reasoning in a vacuum on this?  Has anyone seen any economists worth listening to that have offered explanations for the post-election drops?  Honest question - I like to be prepared to defend my anti-Obama accusations. 

It makes sense to me that the markets are reacting to the introduction of one large unknown (Obama) and a series of negative knowns (cap and trade, tax hikes, etc.) but I just haven't heard the other side's opinion on this.  Could be that they're keeping quiet and hoping for change.

13 The DJ went up when they heard Obama was quitting. Wait until tomorrow when they realize he just meant the Senate.

14 Yeah - MSN.com sees this as meriting a red banner "Breaking News" alert.  Where was that kind of alert a few weeks back when we saw record upswings?!?!?  Anything to shine light on His Holiness Barackus I.  Fucking Bastards.

15 The media is all over this story.  They just have to get sidetracked every now and then with the pregnant man who is actually a woman pretending to be a man.

Next week: shark attacks

too bad Paul Hogan died.  We could get Crocodile Dundee 4 promos.

16

What the hell happened at 1 o'clock? 

The Dow hit a technical bottom of around 8100 and the bottom held bringing a few buyers back to the table.  It will continue to bounce around for a while testing highs and lows until the economy shows some signs of strengthening or completely shits the bed.

17

And the AP headline?

"Stocks see massive rebound"

18
Logically, since the Lefties all wanted to blame Bush for everything that happened on his watch (when many of the problems were Clinton policies coming to fruition), they won't be able to blame Bush when O'Bama inevitably fails to live up to their unrealistic expectations.

But of course, they will.

19 Next week: shark attacks

Dude.  Do not slight shark attack coverage.  chompy chompy chompy

20 I hope Obama does nothing in office, then.  That might be the best thing he could ever do.

(I have this vision of him just sitting in the Oval Office, staring out the window.  For hours.  It's a calming image.  Whenever a politician decides he must do something, look out.)

21 Posted by: thebronze at November 13, 2008 04:58 PM (a9KFb)

"To my successor: When you find yourself in a hopeless situation which you cannot escape, open the first letter, and it will save you. Later, when you again find yourself in a hopeless situation from which you cannot escape, open the second letter."

And soon enough, Brezhnev found himself in a situation which he couldn't get himself out of, and in desperation he tore open the first letter. It said simply, "Blame it all on me." This Brezhnev did, blaming Khrushchev for the latest problems, and it worked like a miracle, saving him and extending his career. However, in due time Brezhnev found himself in another disaster from which he could not extricate himself. Without despairing he eagerly searched his office and found the second letter, which he tore open desperate for its words of salvation. It read thus:

"Sit down, and write two letters."

22 At some point they'll have to stop blaming Bush and begin taking ownership of their problems.

LOLz.  Everything is inherited.  And if it wasn't inherited, the underlying cause certainly was.  Worked for FDR.

23

The first two days' drop after the election can certainly be attributed to Obama. It was the biggest news in the mix. For that matter, there were plenty of articles about a pre-Obama drop, the market was getting skittish.

It's pretty sweet that the foreign markets are suffering along with us. The world wanted Obama.

24 'President-elect Obama "is being handed an immense challenge, which could impact many of his campaign promises," said Leon Panetta, CRFB co-chair and chief of staff to President Clinton. Panetta recalled that Clinton "had to drop his plans for middle-class tax cuts in his first year due to fiscal concerns -- and he faced deficits of well under $300 billion."' How quick and predictable was that? http://tinyurl.com/5jzd6m

25 re: 11 and 12
This about sums up reality as far as I see it:
http://tinyurl.com/67559j

26


The attention span of the MSM is that of a gnat on high quality speed and Starbucks.

Barry will do no wrong, shits golden turds and will bestow upon his followers riches and pleasantries. They'll get the first pick of the flavor of Soylent they want.

27 One long, hard, Obama-driven slog coming up. And that's just for the economy. The One doesn't even know what he doesn't know; plus, there are always those knowingly unknowables his federal handout team will minimize or disregard because "change" supersedes all.

The market as a measure of general consensus has spoken. Through all the cussing, I'm pretty sure it could be translated to mean, "We're screwed. Gird your loins while you're at it."

Thanks, Nancy Barack.

28

It's pretty sweet that the foreign markets are suffering along with us. The world wanted Obama.

Amen, Adolfo. Who knows, maybe now the world has been healed by the election of the Messiah, we can pull out all those troops out of Europe. NATO is so 1980s, anyway.

29 Was this a dead cat bounce?  A bear market rally?  Will the sellers come in tomorrow?  or the buyers?

Did GWB make his speech at 1?

30 Clearly the market "thinks" no one has a clue how to fix this problem (that's certainly what I am thinking too), including the O!.

31

'President-elect Obama "is being handed an immense challenge, which could impact many of his campaign promises," said Leon Panetta

Was Panetta the one who allegedly got rectally probed by aliens, or was it Podesta? I always get those two confused.

32 So carter worth has two charts, 1. we go up 2. we go to new lows.  Wow, thanks carter.

33

That’s what I like, eternal optimism. I can see now in about 2 years when we settle out in a depression with 25% unemployment and soup lines. The headlines will be BEST ECONOMY EVER.

34 Wait!  Paul Hogan died?  When?

35 I hope Obama does nothing in office, then.  That might be the best thing he could ever do.

He'll do something, unfortunately. On the bright side, in another two years he'll start running for a higher office.

36 I recall clearly that in 2000, the economy started tanking in Aug/Sept for tech reasons.  It wasn't super obvious at the time, but anyone could clearly see a downturn and the bubble bursting; kept going down until inauguration.  But Lo! and BEHOLD!  Bush gets in and the drop is ENTIRELY his fault. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

I'd love to see, maybe not fairness, but equal treatment here.  BO is the fault of the market tanking to the same extent (and actually probably more) as Bush was in 2000.  BO bears teh blame for the credit crunch and the housing collapse.

Why the hell not?  It was good enough for Bush.

--dissent is the highest form of patriotism

37 Isn't tomorrow a big day if you want to take your money out of your hedge fund?

38

"Clearly the market "thinks" no one has a clue how to fix this problem (that's certainly what I am thinking too), including the O!."

One only needs to look at Paulson running around nervously making shit up and looking like a 14 year old getting caught smacking off to a copy of the SI swimsuit issue to know this.

Fucking Bush put that scumbag in, where is the fucking GOP calling for this idiot's scalp?

39 I know: We're in a crisis. The thing is, though, that we were in a crisis before the election too, which is kinda why Obama won. What's changed since then? Well, Obama won.

I'm no Obama apologist, but there's a whole lot more than that going on here.  For one thing, it's increasingly clear all that bailout money isn't going where Paulson promised to put it, and is instead being doled out secretly via God knows what process buying equity shares.  I've tended to defend the Bush administration as the Kos Kids attacked over the years, but this bailout is starting to stink.  The country club Republicans are using our tax money to nationalize the financial sector under the false pretense of buying up bad debt.  What the hell is going on?

40 market wil lgo down tomorrow. Itwill plummet if the auto industry is bailed. But Pelosi doesn't have the stones to do that when there is no republican patsies lined up to take the blame. For once she and the rest of the Dems in Washington have to face the consequences for her and the Dems actions and no one to point the finger at 

41 Bloomber, the Governor of south Carolina and apparently three Republican senators are now asking the same questions as Ace's liver.

42 Ace's liver at November 13, 2008 05:17 PM (XIXhw)

Don't forget the $2 trillion in loans that the Fed does not want to talk about. Who got that money?

43 First, the market should have gone UP after the election.  The market hates volatility.

Second, if Obama were an R, this would have been blamed on him for not managing to reassure the market.  Think about it: Captain Bullshit cannot talk the market into stability.

44 Paul Hogan is alive and living in California. Check Wikipedia.

45 33

That’s what I like, eternal optimism. I can see now in about 2 years when we settle out in a depression with 25% unemployment and soup lines. The headlines will be BEST ECONOMY EVER

----

 it will be..only if your part of the "Domestic military force" gestapo or one of his youth brown shirts.

46

I remember a time, not so very long ago, when people were stating emphatically right here on this very blog that the president had no affect on the economy and anyone who thought he did shouldn't vote.

Ah, those were good times.  Stupid times, but good times.

47 Ace,

Why don't you apply for some of that sweet, sweet bailout money?
I mean, if they're handing it out to Hispanic plumbers, why not the Moron Defense Fund or somesuch?

We could help you out with the application or we could just write one of our own.

(maybe then we could move to the new farkin' website this decade...)

48 Note:  Market swung to the Green side after Bush's speech defending free market

49 Behavioral economist on Fast Money saying people are concerned that Paulson has "no clue" based on his actions of saying one thing and then coming out yesterday and apparently saying another.  Economist saying we have a fundamental issue of trust.   Duh

50

Paul Hogan is still alive Gabe.

 

51 Dow Jones Industrial is Racist. What can you expect from an index named after white men.
When Obama is sworn in, a new law will be passed making it compulsory for the Dow Jones to steadily rise atleast 0.1% for each trading session.

52 "Behavioral economist on Fast Money..."

He was paid to say that? Is there another job opening there where I can apply to state the bleeding obvious? Just to show my compassionate conservatism, I'll do it for half-price.

53 The election wrapping up should have brought some stability to markets, but I just don't think its that simple.  If the conversation is about how unfair the media is in their portrayal of Obama's economic impact vice how they have treated Bush then that makes sense.  If we're actually claiming that Obama is either a noticeable positive or negative impact here then I have to disagree.  This is one case where I just don't think Obama matters all that much.  He scares the shit outta me, but I think this problem is a lot more complex than that.  Paulson and Bush actually deserve some bludgeoning here.

54 Can anyone explain what is going on with our economy?  This is a serious question, since it appears that no one out there can or is willing to answer it.

55 Worst President -Elect Eveh!

56 Can anyone explain what is going on with our economy?

CNBC has had 10 guys up on the screen, each of whom knows 10x as much about the economy as anyone here. Each guy disagrees with all the other guys about what's going on, and each one admits he has no clue whether his own proposed solution will actually do shit.

So to answer your question: No.

57 Yesterday I commented that 8,000 seems to be the comfort level. Last month when the market dropped precipitously below 8,000, investors did not feel comfortable there, and bargain hunted. Same for today. I believe that this 8,000 is a critical number, as once again, we've seen that the market balks when it falls below that level.

58

"November 13, 2008

Dear Secretary Paulson:

We are writing to express our deep concern over your announcement this morning that the Department of the Treasury will halt all plans to purchase trouble mortgage assets through the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP). We are concerned that the program has been fundamentally changed from its original intent and worry that continued changes may erode the structures of accountability put in to protect taxpayers"

http://tinyurl.com/6avnpk

59 "Paulson and Bush actually deserve some bludgeoning here."

No question, but Obama campaigned on increased government spending, taxing small businesses (the real economic engine), and new social programs. With Pelosi and Reid blowing more wind to help that sail, how could any sane capitalist now not withdraw from the market/economy?

Add Obama's stated policy along with job loss projections that are being realized now and the global reach of the current downturn and there's just no way Obama escapes some acute responsibility for deepening the recession. The fact that he lied about his tax program may work during the campaign season when economic idiots get to vote, but those who are tangibly invested in the markets and move capital aren't rubes or fools... they're just outnumbered on election day. That check that becomes due when Obama controls (heh!) spending will be enormous. Business knows this and is predicting it (via market volatility and downturns) now.

60 Don't we need to test the lows again?   I mean I think Art Cashin and Mark and Santelli and Gasparino are the only guys who seem to be saying this.

61

You think Barry gives Ayers a call and asks him "what the fuck have you gotten me into, you asshole?"

62 Oh shit.  Paul Hogan lives.

I think I have to adjust last year's dead pool.

63 I am sooo sick about hearing about the death of buy and hold from CNBC.  But, I'm still holding on, I don't want to eat cat food.  I want my retirement money back to where it was before all this crap and I want it now!

64

Don't we need to test the lows again?   I mean I think Art Cashin and Mark and Santelli and Gasparino are the only guys who seem to be saying this.

Correction.  Cashin, Santelli, Gasparino and me.

 

The Dow hit a technical bottom of around 8100 and the bottom held bringing a few buyers back to the table.  It will continue to bounce around for a while testing highs and lows until the economy shows some signs of strengthening or completely shits the bed.

JackStraw at November 13, 2008 04:55 PM (VW9/y)

65 Art Cashin said this today: There was speculation over what might happen next in terms of forming a market bottom. "You've got two things that can happen," Art Cashin, director of floor operations at UBS, said on CNBC before the lows were breached. "You test and you break, and if you break badly you can swing into a kind of a capitulation mode. If you test and you hold you could get one whopping rally that could last for months and you go up 35 to 40 percent."

66 There is an Economic Conference that the O has decided not to attend.

They might ask him a question I guess.

67 No one can do anything about the economy and markets, except the producers and consumers that is.

68 I've taken my hidden cash and bought gold. Which is now stuffed between my mattress and box spring and even more holes have a appeared in my back yard.

69

Paulson wrecks shit right before the election, makes some shit up about buying mortgages, secures congress' approval...

Then after the goddamn election, completely changes his mind and goes a totally different route...

So who is telling tihs asshole what to do and when to do it?

This is RIDICULOUS.

I cannot believe what I have witnessed in the last month and a half, it is truly fucking crazy.

70

Take it out of your mattress and put it here.

http://tinyurl.com/5f6uo3

When the world gives you lemons, make lemonade.  When it gives you Obama, invest in the wind.

71 @59
Obama's suggestions are clearly disastrous for any economy, but their impact is an intangible.  We've got two very tangible douchebags (Bush and Paulson) monkeying with this and I think they deserve their lumps.  I guess everything about the market is intangible though.  Just last month people were saying that if they would just stop dooming us on the news that we'd work our way out of it.  Crying about it doesn't work though - here's my solution:
Adhere to tested capitalist principles.  Let businesses that planned poorly fail.  Let homeowners that couldn't afford their mortgage be homeless.  Allow bad decisions to be met with consequences.  This will suck, but there will be a lot of opportunity out there for new financials to step up.  There will be a lot of affordable homes out there for responsible buyers.  If the bedrock (capitalist principles) is there then the investments will come back even if we lurch hard. 
I'm no economist.  Why is that solution worse than the one we have now?  We are trying to fix the economy and it looks like we don't even know what is wrong with it.

72 Oh shit.  Paul Hogan lives.

I think I have to adjust last year's dead pool.

It seems that you were thinking "sharks......obnoxious Aussie" and got the wrong guy.

No worries. I'm sure that Hogan would be glad to throw another hobo on the barbie for you.

73 Can anyone explain what is going on with our economy?

US dollar recovering.  It's killing the buying power of holders of Pounds Sterling and Euro Dollars.  This makes the job of managing debt(finance) a huge pain in the ass.  It's already killed Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers.  The rest of the players are either getting bought out or permission from the Fed to restructure as bank holding companies.

If you're holding lots of US dollars right now you're pretty jazzed up(China, South Korea, Japan, Arabs).

If you're holding lots of Euro dollars(Soros and pals) you're pissed off.

The Big three are in trouble because of their untenable combination of high wages and benefits and the fact that the the profitable cars they make consume large amounts of fuel.  They didn't adapt to the market.  It's like the late 70s all over again.

74 I want it now!

If it at first it doesn't yield, just wait longer.

75 ...and even more holes have a appeared in my back yard.

If you could just provide your address in the comment space someone will be right over to take care of your problem.

76 Okay, I bought a tech stock that is now half of what I bought it at. (I may have bought at the high foolishly believing those who said it would go to three hundred) Not sure how to handle this, any suggestions?

77 It could be that they decided to stop throwing all the money down the National Money Hole.

78 #76

Average out. That is, buy more of it at the now lower price, then it only has to go back up a fraction for you to break even.

79 #69 - Sen. Rev. Dr. E Buzz,

I'm not generally into conspiracy saboteur theories and all (but don't ask me about alien autopsies or I'll have to kill you), but the timing on Paulson's histrionics, shiftiness, and fingering-to-the-wind is rather curious.

I never have much faith in government, but the Paulson/Bush/Congress triumvirate seems to really, oh, what's the word... suck. Criminally suck? Hmm. Maybe. Philosophically and transparently suck? Oh, yeah.

80 Friday market advice: sell at opening, then buy it back in the last hour when the market closes down another 10%.

Lather, rinse, repeat through December 31st or until you get bored or go broke.

81 Paul Hogan is alive and living in California. Check Wikipedia.

Is he still married to the blond hottie from the Crocodile Dundee movies? I know he ditched his original wife for her - it made me believe that, for all his other failings, he had excellent taste. (Kind of like McCain.)

82 Yesterday I commented that 8,000 seems to be the comfort level. Last month when the market dropped precipitously below 8,000, investors did not feel comfortable there, and bargain hunted. Same for today. I believe that this 8,000 is a critical number, as once again, we've seen that the market balks when it falls below that level.

A few days ago, Bloomberg predicted the bottom at 5000.

83 blankminde,

I approve of your economic recovery plan and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

84

This timing of this shit going down a month before the election is simply unbelievable to me.

I apologize if this sounds like the nutrootbags, but I am finding it hard to grasp why this wasn't taken care of earlier, perhaps Hank the Retard thought it best to get it on the table before the election so that Obama would know what's up, but by doing so, it blatantly gave the Dems a boost.

If he wanted Barry to win, his timing is perfect.

Now, I am supposed to believe that this idiot had no idea about the timing of this whole mess, and now it's not that big a mess because what he said before was not really what will fix it at all, it couldn't, so it's this new thing that is sure to fix it.

The Tom Vu infomercial brought to the Treasury Department. Maybe he has that Trudeau asshole consulting him.

I have been wondering how it looked to the citizens of Germany or Vietnam when the shit went down...was it like what I am witnessing right now?

85 Soros was shown speaking on Brit's show tonight. Ugh. It's really, really wrong & left-wing of me to wish for harm to a fellow human being, right? Even one who's a real-life Bond villain?

86 I still can't quite believe that Obama has been elected president.  Not electing a Republican I can understand, but to elect someone as president whose hostility towards the country he will be leading is a matter of public record just boggles the mind.

I'm not quite sure how this happened, but I suspect it is the combination of our schools and universities being used as leftist brainwashing centers, and active collaboration of the MSM, who are made up of victims of that brainwashing by and large.

The MSM has spent the last 8 years chanting the "Bush is bad" refrain.  Is he a perfect president?  No, of course not.  But he's done about as well as can be expected given the problems that our nation faces.  The idea that he is some sort of failure or disgrace is a fantasy that the MSM and the left have tirelessly worked to convince the public is real.

The Republicans have responded the way that many people do when first confronted with irrational evil: confusion. 

The future of our nation and the world depends upon honest men and women maintaining their integrity and fighting back.  The world that we pass on to our children and grandchildren will be determined by what we do here and now.

87

One of the things I learned when I worked out at the youth camp was how the director dealt with 'great ideas'.  When someone came to him with a 'great idea' he put them in charge of making it so.

It really cut down on the number of 'great ideas' being brought forward.  The left is going to learn that and soon.  Especially as every Democrat ego in Congress starts bringing their 'great ideas' up, and fighting over their 'great ideas', and demanding that Pres. Obama decide which 'great idea' is going to go forth, and which aren't.

Enjoy, lefty friends - btw, why can't you get along with each other?

88 That asshole McCain could have maybe won the election if he had opposed that dumbass bailout, and provided an alternative free-market solution. But no, he makes a big show of going to DC to make sure the wildly unpopular dumbass bailout is passed by Congress. What an asshole.

'Swounds, I'm glad I don't have to listen to McCain's bullshit any more.

89 I have a new plan regarding the economy. I have lots of co-workers who are rabid Obama supporters, so I plan on whining incessantly about the economy and asking over and over again, 'what's Obama going to do? What's his plan? He has to help us, he has to. He promised us money. When are we going to get our money?  Why isn't he doing anything about the stock market, he's supposed to be for the working man, and now I have no money in my 401k. My retirement is ruined.' Basically, I want to blame this all on Neville Obama and make his cult explain to me why he's doing absolutely nothing.

/I also want my unicorn NOW

90 Speaking of which, when do the Unicorn Futures begin trading? I'm hoping to recoup my stock losses on them.

91 paul hogan lives    dead pool lock of the year  Amy Winehouse

92 #63, cat food's not that bad. I recommend the "Special Kitty" brand Mixed Grill flavor from Wal-Mart in the large cans.

Yes, I licked my finger after dishing up for the feline roommates, and it wasn't bad. Reminded me of about half the MREs I ever ate.

I've got a fair amount in the federal government's Thrift Savings Plan, their in-house tax shelter 401k analogue, and I'm half tempted to take the hit and cash it all out just so the fucker can't seize it.

93

This timing of this shit going down a month before the election is simply unbelievable to me.

Read Michael Lewis' (Liar's Poker) article The End at portfolio.com.Twas long overdue.

94

today's market action was purely technical. If you were paying attention, you saw the bottom (for now). I traded in and out all day and wound up with some great profits. But i don't expect this to continue, given the current economic conditions and leadership change.

 

But keep an eye on todays bottom and buy there if you can.

95 I read somewhere that the next shoe to drop is government pensions.  But, it was another one of those convulted things the msm feels they must get out there and never saw anything about it again.  Today I saw comments about the states running out of money ot pay unemployment. 

96 Kudlow is talking about GE going into a "bank holding company".   Geez, how many bank holding companies are there going to be?

97 "Geez, how many bank holding companies are there going to be?"

Ultimately, one. Uncle Sam's Thrift Emporium and Pork Processing Center.

Well, that's the trend anyway.

98

People looking at historical numbers to justify buying stocks now are misleading themselves. 

Obama is going to try to recreate the "French Economic Miricle."  If propping up failing banks, bailing out failing companies, and protecting investors from the results of their own bad decisions doesn't bring it about then I don't know what will.

There are fundamental reasons why the future economy can be expected to suck.  Nationalizing health care, dumping money into the gaping hole of unsound financial institutions, and then taxing the fuck out of the rich is going to have an impact. 

As soon as the market gives head-fake recovery I'm dropping what's left of my portfolio and converting it to an interest bearing account. 

99 #29- Incredulous. I believe that the market fluctuations to date reflect 1) the initial market skepticism about a Obama presidency and 2) general skepticism of the policies encompased in the bailout bill passed by congress. Cumulatively, they are merging into a perfect storm, the results of which can only be projected as relavent events unfold between now and the inauguration. Personally,  I feel that the climate will sour from here as Obama surrounds himself with the old faces of the Clinton administration and surrogate party hacks. They pretty much rode the peace dividend secured by Reagan/Bush into the crapper and lived off the laurels rightly earned by Reagan's policies. We need to hope 'cause there won't be any change from this clown.

100 Okay, I bought a tech stock that is now half of what I bought it at. (I may have bought at the high foolishly believing those who said it would go to three hundred) Not sure how to handle this, any suggestions?

The easiest way to make a small fortune on Wall Street is to start with a large one.

101 If Obama should be blamed form the stock market does he also get credit for the 2 dollar a gallon gas ?

102 "If Obama should be blamed form the stock market does he also get credit for the 2 dollar a gallon gas?"

Sure, I guess. But why would Obama want credit for that? He wants higher oil prices so you'll use unicorn-powered clouds to move around and to do stuff. I don't see how this helps him except in the flippity-floppity populist policy sense where he picks ideology from the ether.

103 If Obama should be blamed form the stock market does he also get credit for the 2 dollar a gallon gas ?

Oddly, yes, since the dying world economy will accelerate the drop in oil prices.

104

It's a real bad sign that the MSM is already covering for Obama and he's still got over two months to even start. When they turn on him, (and they will) he'll be calling Bush up asking for advice on how in the hell he put up with it.

It'll be uglier than Rosie in a two piece.

 

105 The left take ownership?  Not a chance.  They will place blame only when it's bad.  Not until the ship is righted will they attempt to take ownership.

106

#103 No.

Bush gets that credit for Taking the Prez ban of offshore drilling off the table.

107 sure fire recipe for depression:  http://tinyurl.com/2fwzfa and http://tinyurl.com/yusc4 and http://tinyurl.com/2qrkvy

108 too bad Paul Hogan died.  We could get Crocodile Dundee 4 promos.

Posted by: Gabriel Sutherland at November 13, 2008 04:55 PM (AHrTm)

You're thinking of Steve Irwin. Paul Hogan is very much alive, and is conducting an ongoing battle with the Australian tax department. Why they would choose to pick a fight with a man whose career has been based on (at least pretending to) hunt crocodiles and bear large knives on his person, I am not so sure.   As for the economic crap, well, I am not an economist but my job involves financial analysis on a daily basis (albeit not in the States but we look at the US every day, natch). So let's have a crack at this:  

Posted by: lorien1973 at November 13, 2008 04:52 PM (IhQuA)

  Correlation does not imply causation.

Actually on stock markets, it does. There was no other single occurrence in the original news cycle or any subsequent cycles to justify such a steep drop. Yes it was exacerbated and exaggerated by the GLOBAL CREDIT CATASTROPHICRISISOHNORUNAWAY that is Going To Kill Us All. And on the fact that there have been a series of batterings delivered the market's way throughout the year (anyone remember the great HIGH OIL PRICE CRISIS THAT IS GOING TO KILL US ALL, but kinda didn't really kill us all?) But basically what happened is that fingers were resting on sell buttons awaiting the election outcome and when it went the way of the guy who wants higher taxes on corporate oppressors the sell buttons were pushed.

AP even admitted as much in its scintillating story on "cashing in their profits." Um profit-taking is not a good thing, or a bad thing, but it is a bad thing more than a good thing because it means - in this case - that an outcome under which expectations for earnings etc. were likely to suffer is the outcome that occurred. Off the top of my head, look for a bunch of funds having fled the stock market for t-bills or other such instruments.

Stock market has a lot of problems. Assigning Obama to be that #1 problem, before he's actually done anything, is a mistake.

Aaaaaand well done for saying something that is based on absolutely zero facts or evidence. Yes, the market is twitchy, very much so. But a drop of that magnitude is generated by a very sudden darkening of the longer-term outlook, not by an overall bleak picture punctuated by bits of even worse news. See, this is why it's called a POST-ELECTION selloff.

Bailouts &c. are little more than anciliary factors in this and market opinion is divided on their relative merits. People WILL buy stocks that are green lighted for a bailout if only to book short term profits on them.

And on the topic of the GREAT GLOBAL warming oops i mean CREDIT CRISIS THAT IS GOING TO KILL US ALL, the hype has far exceeded the reality of fundamentals and plenty of earnings have surprised to the upside, hence the rebounds in the index. Oh yeah you don't really get to read this so much on AP or MSNBC, which is why it's a good idea to read business media for business news. Eg buy the Wall Street Journal not the NY Times.

Yes, his policies will hurt the economy. Inevitable. The stock market has its own issues - earnings reports, stocks expecting a crappy christmas season, etc.

All true, but all priced in long ago. An Obama victory and likely subsequent insanities in tax policy was priced in to an extent but not fully, as there was an almost-even chance he wouldn't win. Not til the result was announced did the sell buttons get pushed down to their "Obama victory" level from the "almost-even odds of Republican win" level.

If you blame Obama for the drop, you have to credit him for the 500 point rise today, right?

No, why? By your logic since the expected crappy Christmas season is responsible for the sudden huge drop, it must also be responsible for the 500 point rise. That's just stupid.

What did he do to cause that 500 point rise? Nothing. Therefore, he did nothing to cause the drop either.

Um okay then. Because it would totally make sense that the market would move in opposing directions on subsequent days due to the exact same event.

Now, here are some thoughts from some people who actually know what they're talking about:

"The massive forced deleveraging over the last eight weeks seems to be coming close to an end," said Mike Blaustein, president and chief executive of financial services firm Matrix USA.

Helping to reverse the declines in the session was a sentimental lift from the Dow reaching its October closing low. Each time the index has neared 8000 in recent weeks, it has bounced higher, with strategists noting that retests of bottoms are almost a certainty before markets can rally.

Caterpillar helped drive the afternoon gains, as it finished up $4.33, or 12%, at $39.41; Chevron, rising $8.43, or 13%, to $75.71; and several consumer stocks, such as Tiffany, which tacked on $2.91, or 15%, to $22.44.

For Tiffany and other high-end retailers, short-selling had been at play for much of the Dow's more than 600-point decline to start the week. But with the major index's closing lows being retested early in the day, short sellers came in to cover their positions.

And, even with a hedge-fund redemption deadline on tap for Friday, fund managers have more than a month to meet these redemptions, with some managers saying they have already aggressively moved out of the market enough to meet redemptions."
--------------------------------------------------

Like I said, and I present this opinion having run it by senior bankers and dozens of analysts, the global CREDIT CRISIS THAT IS GOING TO KILL US ALL was severely overstated in the first place. The actual story is one of a reasonably severe but fairly slow downturn in various economic fundamentals and an ongoing period of heightened risk aversion on the markets. That risk aversion - which applies to banks who are moving out of all sorts of higher-risk transactions and dumping their crap into US t-bills and such - is one of the reasons why markets are so volatile, because while there is no bad news for a certain period then people are buying up undervalued assets but dumping them as soon as the douchebag left-stream media run another giant screaming headline about how we're all going to die.

The US may in fact enter a recession given the next quarter proceeds as badly as this one. But that expectation has been in place for months and is largely priced in.

Are we reasoning in a vacuum on this?  Has anyone seen any economists worth listening to that have offered explanations for the post-election drops?  Honest question - I like to be prepared to defend my anti-Obama accusations. 

Economists are being somewhat silent on this. Call it the Bradley effect but in finance, not politics, if you will. In fact there is no need to tiptoe around it or to defend your position since the other side in fact has no argument whatsoever, except for "correlation doesn't mean causality," except that in finance it pretty much does. Due to the nature in which markets operate, ie tending to take the path of least resistance within existing trends, it takes a single event or a series of events to break them out of a range of support and resistance levels. Find the single event that happened alongside the election result and was sufficient to cause a percentage drop not seen in 20 years and you will be some kind of hero, because there wasn't one.

Seriously, all that you have to do is ask a leftard what was the single event that caused such a steep drop and so far outside existing trends if it was not the election of HopenChange McCapitalGainsRaiser EnergyBankrupty person. What you will hear in return is "um ah er failed Bush policies deregulation um er bailout um corporate socialism um er ah erh," with no explanation whatsoever of how these things affect the market in the way it was affected. That is because they don't do economics, they do politics. It is what they do because it involves talking about stuff and pushing your ideas onto other people, not taking any form of productive action. They think that saying a bunch of stuff makes that stuff as true as any other stuff out there and don't really bother to follow through on their thinking.

It makes sense to me that the markets are reacting to the introduction of one large unknown (Obama) and a series of negative knowns (cap and trade, tax hikes, etc.) but I just haven't heard the other side's opinion on this.  Could be that they're keeping quiet and hoping for change.

There have been some expectations that his supposed commitment to spend more will give a boost to growth short or medium-term. That's about the limit of the Hope and Change that Hopenchange brings to financial markets.

The long and short is that the guy who wants to raise capital gains taxes came into power at a time when the market is jittery and sent it through the floor and that is the long and short of things.

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