1 And AoSHQ commenters were strangely glad about Palin's chance to remain Alaska's governor as oil prices fall, the state faces tougher economic times, and her approval ratings to plummet.

But, on the minus side, it's one more senate seat toward tyranny.

2 At least she doesn't have to sully herself with the filth in the senate.

3 in other news Senator Boxer's senior aide just nabbed for kiddy porn. Isn't this her 2nd aide to have been arrested for this?

4 "in other news Senator Boxer's senior aide just nabbed for kiddy porn. Isn't this her 2nd aide to have been arrested for this?"

Dude.

5 Who are we kidding. 60 seats....Most of our Rinos vote democratic too.  They have it wrapped.

6  Ace, I know one can go to jail for murder. But do you think we could at least beat the living fuck out of Franken , and get away with it.  Maybe I could claim Liberal derangement syndrome.

7 Cheating Commiecrats, sigh.

8 60 seats is a good thing for republicans. Come on.

Dems will be unable to control themselves; they'll do everything they've ever wanted.

Want to see a revolt against government in 2010 or 2012? Give democrats everything they want today.

Besides, dems said they'd use the nuclear option whenever necessary, so 58 votes is irrelevant anyways. I'd rather them have 60, so there is nothing stopping them.

Crash and burn.

9 Ace how can you give me such bad news before 12.00 p.m.? 

10 Its not even subtle, 100% of the 'found' votes are for Franken.  Go ahead and steal the elections Dems, apparently no one cares.

The best part: paying Franken's taxpayer funded Senatorial pension for the rest of his worthless life.

11 Is it time to refresh the tree of liberty yet?

12 Meh, big deal. Stevens was going to be expelled anyway, and there's no guarantee of the results in the special election. Let the dimbulb Dems who ran on Republican-lite platforms be elected, show their constituents how badly they were lying, and then get tossed out on their behinds.

13

Senator Palin? Do. Not. Want. Governor is the best place to build leadership cred.

I also hope the Dems get 60. If they want the keys, give them the keys - watch them drive the car over the cliff. We know their ideas do not work.

58/59 is essentially the same as 60 so far as conservatives are concerned. Like Oympia Snowe and Arlen Specter will stand up for us? We're better off relying on Blue Dogs like Tim Johnson and Ben Nelson...they're more likely to stand up for things we care about.

14

I'd like to see a history of Democrats coming from behind in recounts.

I can only think of one instance in which the pubbies mustered the cojones necessary to stop them.  Of course, as one commenter explained on a different "Donk vote fraud" thread-maybe it isn't vote fraud at all, maybe it's just that Dem voters, being more stupid, are more likely to screw up their ballots and the recounts identify and fix that problem.

15 If the D's DO attain 60 votes, then you can rest assured that this country will embark on a 4 year living nightmare. There is NO chance they won't enact their most desired wishes.  I fear that if this happens, the damage will be irreparable.

16

I am perpetually amazed at the ability of every "found" ballot after the fact to go Dem.

Here are some examples of what Ace is asking about (excluding the crap from this year)

2004 WA Gov Race

shitload of "found" ballots in the 2002 SD Senate race from the reservations, and Tim Johnson miraculously comes from behind

Now you know why ACORN has been targeting the SecOf State offices

 

17 in other news Senator Boxer's senior aide just nabbed for kiddy porn. Isn't this her 2nd aide to have been arrested for this?

That was Maria Cantwell's aide. However, the confusion is explainable; it's hard to tell one incompetent moronic vicious liberal man-hating harpy from another.

18

re: the Minn. Senate Race:

 

Who are the judges involved, and who appointed them?

19 Meanwhile, Al Franken wants to add "undervotes" to his tally, better known as "votes deliberately not cast for Al Franken but to which he believes himself entitled.

I don't know how they work in Minnesota, but in Florida , the optical scanners detect an incomplete ballot and the voter has an opportunity to amend it or have it scanned as is.  That's one of the benefits of optical scanners.

So how can there be "undervotes" whose intent can be anything but no vote.

On the other hand, I'm enjoying the ability to make fun of the voter problems in another state.  Especially one up in the liberal north.  Although I haven't heard too much criticism of the Minnesota Secretary of State's excessive makeup and gaudy wardrobe.  I guess that's too much to ask.

20 >>No Palin Senatorship, most likely.

Good.

And politically, in Alaska, more salient than the budget surplus engendered by high crude oil prices is the local cost of things like heating oil and gasoline. Those prices are dropping just in time for winter.

Sarah will be fine.

21 Stevens was going to be expelled anyway, and there's no guarantee of the results in the special election.

There was at least a 50/50 chance of a Republican winning. I don't need a guarantee, but I'd prefer not to watch as election after election is stolen from under us.

22

shitload of "found" ballots in the 2002 SD Senate race from the reservations, and Tim Johnson miraculously comes from behind

There was a silver lining to that cloud - John Thune remained in the bullpen and knocked off Daschle two years later. Even though Thune turned into a Bailout-pushing Porkmeister, I'm glad that we have Johnson & Thune rather than Daschle and Thune.

23 We're fucked.

24 Absentee ballots usually lean GOP. Yet these have a 6.5% edge for the Democrat, in a Republican state. Looks pretty fishy to me.

25
There was at least a 50/50 chance of a Republican winning. I don't need a guarantee, but I'd prefer not to watch as election after election is stolen from under us.

Think 2010, when Sarah will have four years as a governor under her belt, and the chance to knock off Lisa Murkowski, who aside from being as corrupt as her father, is far less competent (and far more of a lefty moonbat).

26

Next Vote we will find in the Booth:

101st Airborne

27

Absentee ballots usually lean GOP. Yet these have a 6.5% edge for the Democrat, in a Republican state. Looks pretty fishy to me.

Yeah, a lot of the absentee ballots should be military - i.e. overwhelmingly Republican. A shitload of GIs who have been posted to Alaska have made it their permanent residence, legally speaking, because of the tax benefits - even though they've subsequently moved on to elsewhere.

The other odd thing is that most absentee ballots would have been submitted before Stevens was convicted. However, it's not like the outcome of that trial was ever really in doubt.

28

i'm out of words

29 So how nervous are the Dems about getting a 60 seat Senate Majority?

I'd say they're quite nervous. 

If they have 60, there's no excuses for not passing all the loony legislation that their commie-pinko-leftest-fascist supporters really want and expect, but that would insure substantial losses in 2010.

And no excuses for not doing whatever it is that the teaming masses of Obama voters think the House and Senate should do to set the world straight (and pay their mortgages and buy their gas and get them a free no-effort education and make all rich people poor, etc.)

Just a thought.

30

most of the votes counted yesterday were early votes from Anchorage, which Begich was expected to carry by a large margin.  Most of the remaining votes are actual absentees.  So the remaining votes shouldn't trend democrat, at least not near as much.

http://tinyurl.com/5adbtf

31

The standard recount rules, proposed in 2000 in Florida but not fully implemented until in Washington state in 2004:

1.  Count newly found votes.

2. If Democrat ahead, stop counting, celebrate victory.

3. Else, go to step 1.

32

http://tinyurl.com/3hhjfz

 

More shit from the Franken folks.

33 Add mine to the voices that would rather not see Palin as a senator. Senators have done poorly in Presidential elections for a long time; the only reason a senator won this year was because both candidates were senators. Palin can do fine in 2012 or 2016 with 6-10 years experience as a governor.

As for Stevens, if it's this close they will cheat Begich to victory. Franken's going to win his race too; as a Washington state resident, I was privy to all the antics Democrats went through to insure Gregoire won the final recount in 2004. I mean, they counted a write-in ballot for "Christine Rossi" (the Democrat's first name and the Republican's last name) for Gregoire. They weren't even trying to be subtle about it.

The only race I have ever seen that was close (less than 1000 votes) where the Republican prevailed was Bush in Florida in 2000, and the fact that Democrats weren't able to steal that one has always struck me as an act of God. I'd say maybe this recount process needs more prayer, but... pray for the corrupt Stevens to win? Yeah right. I'll risk waiting till 2010, tyvm.

34 But do you think we could at least beat the living fuck out of Franken , and get away with it.  Maybe I could claim Liberal derangement syndrome.

You don't have to claim anything but self defense.  Just walk up to Franken and say to him, "Hey Stuart, your Air America show sucked."  He's guaranteed to take a swing at you.

35 if they get 60 seats, Dems may decide to Sell Alaska back to Canada or Russia.  Sure fire way to get rid of the Palin threat

36 I find it hard to be outraged by this, because the Rep in this case is a slimebag that I would hope would be turned out of office by the voters if the GOP is stupid enough to leave him as the candidate.  Think of it as a "Don't put corrupt assholes up for office" lesson.  Next time, the path will be clear for a less corrupt, non felonious candidate that wouldn't reflect poorly on the GOP and its voters if elected.

37 The dems already drove the car off the cliff during a test drive. That cliff being the current economic situation. Giving them the keys to a new car is not going to be a profound moment for people in 2010 and 2012. We are in a profound moment right now and  they have still been rewarded by the people and the press.

38 Is Chambliss in trouble now too? I thought the runoff was pretty much going to go his way?

39 Another election stolen by the Dems. Palin needs to get involved in this to make sure its honest theft.

40 Think of it as a "Don't put corrupt assholes up for office" lesson.  Next time, the path will be clear for a less corrupt, non felonious candidate that wouldn't reflect poorly on the GOP and its voters if elected.

I agree totally.

41 "35 if they get 60 seats, Dems may decide to Sell Alaska back to Canada or Russia. Sure fire way to get rid of the Palin threat"

Here's a thought. If the Dems sell Alaska, the Alaskans will never go for it - they're smart, we're not - and will revolt. Then, as a newly conceived nation, they can install Palin as their President. I dunno bout youse guys, but things is lookin' mighty grim in these parts... I'll take a chance at being an illegal alien in the Republic of Alaska. If I'm caught, I can throw myself at her and beg for pity (and some moose chili).

42

I was doing some statistical analysis of the Florida recount in 2000 to see what the odds were that all of the counties with large changes, either in actual votes or as a percentage of the votes just happened to go Democrat.  Then I read an article where some guy who does the odds for casinos in Vegas came out and said for the numbers to break the way they did for Gore in the 2000 recount was something like 18 million or 30 some million to one.  It was a recount.  You are suppose to be counting the same votes over.  No one side should benefit but the reality is they always seem to go the Dems way as in the recounts in Washington state, Senate in 2000 and Gov. in 2004, both times the recount produced just big enough changes to give the Dems a win.

Einstein could not calculate those odds.

43 What the hell is wrong with you people?

Your country, I mean.

Who the hell could even think about adding a ballot without a selection in a given race to one candidate's totals. I've never heard of such a thing. That such a thought can even be expressed out loud is just Twilight Zone.

44 Sounds like the liberals in Canada have a lot to learn about stealing elections.

In fairness to our guys, this shit is a last resort. Usually they just use fake ballots.

45 Why do recounts always seem to benefit the Left?

46 #36 Stevens is a corrupt asshole, there's no denying. But if Begich steals the election, he'll have proven himself to be as corrupt as Stevens. In fact, I think I'd rather have the corrupt asshole who takes 'gifts' and spends the money on drinking and whoring than the corrupt asshole who's willing to undermine the electoral process itself.

I also don't think you should read much tolerance for corruption into the choices of Alaska's voters. Stevens' indictment came just days before his primary. Republicans were probably hoping that Stevens would withdraw and allow them time to field a better candidate for the general. They weren't approving of his corruption. He didn't step aside of course.

So pretty much the same dynamic may have played itself out in the general. Stevens was convicted days before the election. There was no time to change horses. If Alaskans return Stevens to the Senate, they're not saying "Corruption is A-OK." I should think that their election of the 'upstart' Palin against Murkowski would have settled the issue of where Alaskans stand on corruption. Alaskans will have decided to vote for Stevens, knowing that he would not be likely to serve. They will have voted, more-or-less, to have a special election.

If it works out that way, look for the Republican to win.

47 @13:  I also hope the Dems get 60. If they want the keys, give them the keys - watch them drive the car over the cliff.

Uh, we're all in that car, buddy.

48 @45:  Why do recounts always seem to benefit the Left?

It probably doesn't help Norm Coleman that Minnesota's Secretary of State, Mark Ritchie, is pretty far left.

http://tinyurl.com/6gdlcf

I heard him speak in Kansas a few years back, about sustainable agriculture and trade and such, but if my memory serves me correctly, he also put in a plug for the New Party.

49 @43:  Who the hell could even think about adding a ballot without a selection in a given race to one candidate's totals. I've never heard of such a thing.

Am I completely losing my memory? I thought that was exactly what they did back in 2000 in Florida!!

50
43 What the hell is wrong with you people?

Your country, I mean.

Posted by: Christoph at November 13, 2008 05:47 PM

Christoph,

Seriously,
Fuck off.

Go crawl back to Hot Air. If you ask really nicely, maybe they'll let you comment again.

Seriously.

51

It certainly seems the dems win the recounts.

52 #45: Because lefties don't care much for rules.   You see, "rules" are meant to be interpreted so that we might discover the true intentions of the rule-makers.  And, as everybody knows, liberalism is morally superior to every other ideology so it just makes sense that those wise rule-makers would have intended liberals to win.  For more examples of this tortured logic, see "the living Constitution".

53 Man I'm more depressed than ever now.  Someone throw me a beer!

54 left doesn't care about 'fairness' when it comes to elections

55

Except for when Bush was able to successfully stop the Dems from stealing Florida in 2000, it does seem like the guy with a D next to his name always wins close races.  I haven't done any kind of a deeper analysis though.

Anyways, I never thought keeping 40 Republicans in the Senate would be a major brake on Obamapelsoireid.  The Maine sisters or Hagel or McCain will always be availible to break a filibuster.  I think the major brake will be the 50-70 conservative Dems they got elected in the last 2 elections.  Unless the Dems want 2010 to be another 1994 they will have to listen to those guys and not go crazy with liberalism.  Either way the country is better off in the long run.

56 The filibuster stinks.  It is so un-democratic. 

58 or 60, with the  Maine girls and Spectre, how many filibusters are feasible anyway.

Give the Dem majority all the rope they need to hang themselves. 

57 I'm not a Minnesotan, but from what I understand, Minnesota uses a fill-in-the-bubble scantron-like system. If a voter fills in two bubbles ("overvotes"), the machine kicks the ballot back to him. It can definitively tell that such a ballot is invalid. But it won't kick back undervotes because it can't tell whether the voter intentionally or accidentally left the ballot blank.

But in some of those cases, the voter might have marked the ballot for one candidate or the other by circling it or put an arrow next to it or something of that nature. Only a hand inspection will reveal that. (Of course, if Minnesota's system prompts a voter about an undervote and asks him if he really meant to leave the ballot blank, then such marks should probably be ignored. But from what I've read, the voter does not get prompted when his ballot is an undervote.) In any event, I'm not convinced that trying to count undervotes is sinister in and of itself.

I might add that I don't see any reason to think that undervotes will break for Franken instead of Coleman. I'd expect it to go the other way, in fact. Voters who make that kind of mistake are likely to be older voters who didn't grow up taking scantron tests. And those voters seem more likely to vote Republican.

Having said that, hand recounts are major invitations for fraud and back-room intimidation (whether you're looking for undervotes or not). Furthermorre, even if the recount is not corrupted, the human factor seems like it will introduce a lot of errors that you don't have with the machine. It could be that any 'error' involving undervotes will be overwhelmed by honest human errors involved in a hand recount.

The bottom line is that candidates should generally let the initial machine count stand (but no, I don't favor a law requiring that...I just think that it's good form).

58 @57: but you haven't been paying attention.  Statistically all the "new" votes should be approximately 50/50 Coleman/Franken.  Amazingly, they are all 100% for Franken.  So of course those undervotes will all magically break for Franken!

59 If the D's DO attain 60 votes, then you can rest assured that this country will embark on a 4 year living nightmare. There is NO chance they won't enact their most desired wishes.  I fear that if this happens, the damage will be irreparable.

60 votes or no 60 votes this country will embark in a 4 (if we are lucky) year nightmare. The damage will be done, and we cannot just blame the democrats, it looks like the idiots have attained majority status in the population of this country, someone tell me what's going to turn the idiots into thinking organisms by next election.

60 Stevens is getting what he deserves.  Don't worry though.  I'm sure Bush will pardon him before he leaves office, Scooter Libby style.

Alaska + Minnesota +Lieberman + one of the Maine Senators switches parties = Democratic Super majority and our democracy is better for it already!

It'd be even funnier if McCain himself switched parties to make 60, as was once strongly rumored, now in the wake of the Republicans suing to overturn their own presidential candidate's signature legislation!  Hilarious!

With the sinking ship that is the modern GOP, nothing would surprise me now.

61

Lizzard @ 60

With all due respect. Fuck off.

I mean that in a good way.

62 The filibuster stinks.  It is so un-democratic.

What gave you the mistaken notion the USA is a democracy?

63 What gave you the mistaken notion the USA is a democracy?

I blame the sad state of government schools.

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