1 Ideally, any campaign finance laws should help or hurt both parties equally. But when one party plays by the rules and the other party subverts them by illegals means (means that Mr. Doodad Pro approves), stricter laws end up hurting one party more than the other.

2 Yeah, let's make it easier for Obama to buy the next election too!

3 It's its.  Fuck.

4 Good.  The first amendment should not be limited by a misguided law borne of self-righteousness.

5 I wonder if it would be worthwhile to have a central, government sponsored clearinghouse for credit/debit card donations to candidates. Yea, I hate more Gov. bureaucracy but if we had a neutral party screening all of the electronic payments shenanigans might be kept to a minimum.

6

myiq2xu, over here we do believe in free speech no matter who it benefits.

If free speech is outlawed, only outlaws will be able to speak - which is exactly what happened on Obama's donation site.

7 Ouch.  That slap's gotta sting the old man's face a little.


At least I hope it does.

8 I think we need to face the fact that McCain Feingold was a mistake. I suspect that any legislation in this regard needs to protect the political process rather than try to control the system. For example, no contributions from corporations nor foreigners, No limits on giving, but it must be giving by Americans. If you feel strong enough about a candidate to give 50,000 so be it. And financial accountability on all levels. This is what we got. This is who gave it. This is what we spent it on. Nothing could be clearer and healthier for the system.

9

a prediction with a preface: notwithstanding all the talk to talking Joe Lieberman into caucusing with the Republicans, and weighing McCain's limp and tepid and mostly non-existent defense of his own running mate since the election and now this move (which is great news, I'll agree)...

John McCain is more likely to caucus with Democrats during his final 2 years in the Senate than Lieberman is to caucus with Republicans during the rest of his term. To be blunt, McCain has a lot more in common with them (and seems pretty desperate for the leftwing press to start liking him again), than Lieberman has in common with us.

10

How about prosecution of campaign finance and electoral corruption under the laws we already have!  And the chance we are going to get it under an Obama adminstration is... somewhere between "diddley" and "squat"!

Wake up and smell the coffee, Americans.  The Democratic Party has become a criminal enterprise, and it is going to be running things for the next while.  That's what you left all of us open to when you decided to play footsie with people who want to play hardball, Johnny.  Too bad your gunsight fogged-up years ago.

11 Hell, I hope Johnny McComity does decide to cross the aisle!  It would at least make some Republicans see the folly of letting the MSM pick your candidates with your opponent's best interests in mind!

12 sherlock...I'm not sure that it would make that much difference either...I mean, considering some of the people who will be part of the Republican caucus in the Senate for the next 2 years, I can't see them sticking together well enough on much of anything to successfully fillibuster, whether there are 43 of them or some smaller number.

13 Chris Wallace: "The angry white man's party". Really?

14

I think we need to face the fact that McCain Feingold was a mistake.

I don't think many people here are going to have to shift their focus at all to arrive at that.

I think most Republicans when looking at McCain-Feingold and McCain were simply saying that McCain stands by what he believes in* and its admirable for a someone to stick up for their beliefs when a large group of peers disagree.

 

*No matter how damned stupid it is.

15 Is there criminal intent on the part of McCain and Feingold?

16 Now this is hope and change that I can believe in!

To clarify the point made at #3:

It's interesting (contraction of it is)
Its most recent (possessive)

17

They need to repeal ALL campaign finance laws except two that should be in place.

 

1. Total disclosure on the internet.

2. All contributions must originate within the district that is up for election. i.e. No contributions from people who can not vote for the Candidate being contributed to.

18

one suit will be filed in the District of Columbia to strike down the soft-money ban that is the central tenet of the McCain-Feingold Act — formally known as the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002. "Soft money" is largely unrestricted contributions from wealthy individuals, corporations and labor unions.

 

So Soros and friends will still be able to give 600 mill to the Rats, but they will no longer need to launder it through straw donors.

That does not really help us, but I guess it does not hurt us either.

19 Now that the liberals have their majorities I believe they'll be implementing election laws for 100% public financing. That the President-elect used private financing will be proof the system requires public financing.

20

Hm... does this mean we'll strike down the parts of McCain(spit)Feingold that inconvenience politicians, like soft money, but keep the parts that inconvenience citizens, like not running ads 60 days before the election?

BTW, side note: Since newspapers are kinda coming out as being biased sources, doesn't it make sense to strip them of their McCain/Feingold protections as well?

 

21 Comment has been removed

22

I'm fine with limits on campaign conributions. Otherwise both parties end up beng owned and operated by the same small group of rich people. Which is the case at present.

 

23 I sure don't love McCain Feingold, but does the RNC really need to waste money fighting against it?  If they do succeed in overturning it, George Soros and the Sandlers will just give hundreds of millions to the DNC, instead of to 527s which are less effective.  And the Dems/media will blame Republicans for overturning the rules that they themselves crapped all over.

24

There is no free speech right to give money to/bribe public officials. The next time you get busted for DUI, offer to make a "donation" to the officers "fix up my fishing boat fund".

 

What's supposed to happen in that case is that you get indicted for attempted bribery, not praised for your committment to free speech.

25

Good. Make it open season for big bucks. Let's have each party try to sell their goods to the highest bidders. If you have a good product, people will line up to buy it.

Instead of worrying about the rules, the GOP needs to focus on what they're selling.

26

"That means we have to find some group to raise and spend money but without any coordination" with the candidate, his campaign or the RNC. "That does not allow for a unified message," he said.

Would that have been a good or bad thing this year?

Some of the best messages came from outside the party.

27 Yeah, let's slam that barn door shut REALLY hard as we watch the horses trot off into the sunset. It'll "send a message". Geez.

- ...President-Elect Hope 'n Change doesn't seem to have much to say about campaign finance laws...

The reason would seem to be that he's simply ignored them, aided and abetted by his lying partisan shills in the entrenched media. I can count on one finger the number of times AP "noticed" Obama's lie about accepting public funding. Of course it was buried in a Palin hit piece that labeled HER as pursuing "politics as usual". Oy. The shit these people find a market for...

Speaking of lying partisan shills, how's the Pipewrench bit going?

28 I hope that this is the start of the repudiation of McCain. And all his failed compromises with the left. Yes, I held my nose for him and did the phone bank thing. Was I excited for my candidate?. Absolutely not. I just had a choice between a Rino and a socialist. Let this be a lesson to all RINO's and "reach around" the aisle cocksuckers. Every time we reach out, we bring a stump. Teddy Chapakennedy wrote the ED bill, and then beat Bush over the head with it. I thought Elepahants had excellent memories? They fucking hate that we inhabit the planet. Period. If you can't get your head around the fact that they wish to kill/silence/re-educate us, stay at the DMV!

29 Every time we reach out, we bring back a bloody stump. Sorry

30 Why do this via the court system? Can't they just submit legislation to repeal the bill? How could the Democrats argue in favor of the bill when The One rejected it?

31 Well then, what is the recourse?  There has to be a way to outsmart these thieves.  This is our country people, and this is unacceptable.  If the GOP is too stupid, then you all will just have to spoon feed them their marching orders.

32 It's about damn time. Bush should have never signed it in the first place. Could never figure out why he did.

33 McCain Feingold was bad law and a violation of the First Amendment. I hope to see it overturned. Oh, and in case you're wondering, I voted for Palin.

34

"It's interesting to say the least that a national political party is suing to overturn the hallmark legislative 'success' of it's most recent (until last week) nominee for President."

I don't know, Joe Lieberman was literally kicked out of  his party after being their nominee for Vice President.

35

Comment has been removed

36 Ha! Hey, I like that our comments are being monitored by the "US Dept of Fairness" and also helpfully edited. The next 4 years are going to be dismal, but at least I'll be laughing my ass off.

37

It figures that a government body doesn't know how to spell "fairness".

 

38 Heh. I hadn't noticed the misspelling. I think I like the US Dept of "Fariness" even better!

39 YES. Maybe the RNC has finally grown a pair.

40

Well then, what is the recourse?  There has to be a way to outsmart these thieves.

Yes, there is.  Get behind leaders who have already demostrated their bona fides in fighting corruption and standing firm for conservative ideals.  Here is a list of the ones I am currently aware of:

1. Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska

41

Chem,  I beleive the RNC is finally realizing "Bi curious Partisanship" sucks.

 

 

 

 

 

i

42

Vic (#17): I'm with you, except for rule #2.  Why? Because if you limit donations only from people within the district you open the door for the few rich guys in a district to own the local politicos.  Take a place like Nebraska's 2nd congressional district, home of Omaha, for instance.  It is the home of Warren Buffett.  If you say only people who live in the 2nd CD can donate then you are essentially saying Buffett's money gets to crowd out everybody else's.

I'd like the only two rules to be:

1. Immediate (i.e. within 24 hrs) disclosure of all donations to the Internet

2. Only donations from citizens are allowed, either directly or indirectly

43 sherlock #40 - precisely (on Palin).

The sooner we see to the repair of her honor, which was spat upon by the entrenched media and left to soil by the man who chose her (that choice being pretty much the only olive branch he held out to the conservative base, ultimately), the sooner we'll get on track to identify and generate support for others like her.

Too many conservatives and Republicans have fallen under the media's Jedi mind tricks painting Palin as a bimbo/whacko.

And speaking of lying media shills... how's that Pipewrench bit going?

44

It's says something about McCain and his campaign that I worked phones for him, voted for him, and from that I suffer from MDS.  If that SOB thought an honorable loss to a socialist was better than a possibly tainted victory, he deserves a tainted legacy.  The taint is what we want!  Go for the taint! 

Hi, I'm Publicserf.  I'm a victim of McCain Derangement Syndrome.  Every day I say "Palin 12" but I'm losing my grip on the hope wagon.  Since I'm a victim, will Obama write me a check too?   

45

Why? Because if you limit donations only from people within the district you open the door for the few rich guys in a district to own the local politicos.  Take a place like Nebraska's 2nd congressional district, home of Omaha, for instance.  It is the home of Warren Buffett.  If you say only people who live in the 2nd CD can donate then you are essentially saying Buffett's money gets to crowd out everybody else's

 

That applies just as well to the country as a whole. The money of a tiny handful of people is currently crowding out everyone else. That's how we ended up with a McCain vs Obama election followed by an Obama win.

 

 

46 And see here's an area where the R's can potentially latch on to a winning issue.  The campaign finance laws are Prime Example Number One of why you should not let government meddle in this.  Well-intentioned plans to "clean up the system" simply turns into another scheme used by incumbents to solidify their power.  Let the R's in Congress propose abolishing the FEC and all of its rules and just replacing it with a couple of guys with a web server with which the candidates upload their transactions every day.

47 Oh and in the meantime the R's can repeatedly point out Obama's crooked campaign contributions and why the system is so broke.  Yes, yesssssss....

48 Flenser (#45) well that is true but it won't be as true on a district-by-district basis if you allow donations from around the country into close House races.  I don't see why rich R's in safe red districts shouldn't be allowed to support R's in swing districts.

49 Publicserf: Yes. Just submit a form in triplicate to the new Department of Unicorns.  And then wait by your mailbox.  And wait.  And wait.

50

Here's a professor that is probably the least popular guy at the Faculty Club, but he has his shit together.  http://tinyurl.com/5oeaka

Cliffs Notes version: There is no "center", just a lump of uniformed, gullible fools who respond to media portrayals of candidates as "good" or "bad".

Cue Sarah.

 

51

Chemjeff

 

Yes, it would allow Buffet to buy a politician for that district, but his influence would be limited to that one district, plus it would be publicized. As it stands now he is buying politicians across the board all over the country. Don’t think that he and others like him are not just because we have that law that the Dems do not follow.

 

By limiting contributions to just the individual districts it would naturally limit the amount of money in the majority of the races and also limit the power of the parties which I think are the real corrupting influence.

52 Re: 17, 42, 45 I agree that the #2 needs to go, due to ability to spread money by donors in the district, see the Chinatown money laundering, earlier this year. Just complete transparency on who your donors are.

53

49 Chemjeff "Yes. Just submit a form in triplicate to the new Department of Unicorns.  And then wait by your mailbox.  And wait.  And wait."

A Department of Unicorns?  Holy HopeyChangey!  Can I have one?  Pretty please?  Powder blue with a lavender mane?  Can I, can I , can I?  And, and a Puff the Magic Dragon, and a death-ray bazooka?  And a Nancy/Harry punching bag? Can they overnight 'em? 

If I might be slightly more serious.  I'm skeptical of the effectiveness of any campaign finance reform.  The problem is that people are, and always will be, selfish/sinful.  Consequently, whatever limits are put in place, people will always try to find a way around them, or failing that will just ignore them.  However, we have to at least try to tame the wild west, so punishment for infractions of whatever limits are set must be swift and severe.  Mercy will be the offer of a blindfold and cigarette.  Corruption of the democratic process IS pretty serious.  So when does Obama's trial begin? 

54 sherlock (#50) - there's another academic who has ruffled the feathers of his left/liberal colleagues. I have characterized his thesis, and the manner he presents it, as Speaking Truth to Adolescence.

Cliff Notes version: in terms of the "intuitive ethics" that appear to be necessary for a society to flourish, conservatives demonstrate a comprehensive moral foundation that uses all five; the leftist mindset values only a small subset (two-out-of-five).

I liken this to the difference between moral adulthood and moral adolescence, respectively, and it goes a LONG way toward explaining the difference between the left and conservatives. For example, why do both Clinton and Obama present as raging narcissists who push a leftist agenda?

Discussed in depth, with implications, here.

55 McCain/Feingold should be entirly abbolished

56 If I were a small-government sort, I'd ask "why do we need any government involvement at all?"

Oh.  Wait, I am.  So please consider it asked.

It is my considered opinio that law to control behaviour is bad law.

57

 Finally!!Someone came to their senses.

The whole thing is suspect if you ask me.It seems it was aimed at squashing political  speech hidden under the guise of "getting corruption out of politics"

Here is just one of the goodies that is part of this bill. It is a felony for corp.,non-profit advocacy groups and labor unions to run ads that criticize,name or even show pictures of members of congress within 60 days of an election.That means during the most critical time during an election the McFeingold bill has decided voters are not allowed to see any info from these possibly helpful sources of info.

Nice Huh?

I hope they get rid of the whole damn thing and McCain too,if he wants to keep signing off on garbage like this.

58 If they don't like McCain-Feingold, why don't they just repeal it in the legislature? Why do they have to go to the courts?

59 Because there are only forty Republicans in the Senate, and one of them is John McCain.

It takes sixty votes to pass a new bill.

60   I don't see why rich R's in safe red districts shouldn't be allowed to support R's in swing districts.

I'm not saying they shouldn't. I am saying that allowing about a dozen billionaires to own the political parties in America is a bad idea, and that fairly small limits on the size of campaign contributions are a good idea. And one which has nothing to do with free speech.

61 Actually, I take that back. Campaign limits which allow Joe Q Public the same size megaphone as George Soros are about fostering free speech.

62 flenser, Nope it takes only 51 to pass a new bill; I guess you are thinking about the 60 votes necessary to end debate, known as filibuster.

63 If I, as a private citizen, want to be the patron of a political candidate, even to the tune of millions of dollars, that should be my right.

As long as everyone know that I'm doing it.

64 McCain Feingold also hurts Republicans. Get rid of it. It's a bad law, the part about ads 30 ads 60 days before an election was rightly struck down by SCOTUS.  Get rid of it, it was one reason that I held my nose when I voted for McCain.

65 I heard one wag on TV call it "The Incumbent Protection Act."

66 Nope it takes only 51 to pass a new bill; I guess you are thinking about the 60 votes necessary to end debate, known as filibuster.

Well, you can't pass a bill if somebody decides to filibuster it. And I'm guessing that somebody, like John McCain, would try to filibuster any attempt to scrap this law.


If I, as a private citizen, want to be the patron of a political candidate, even to the tune of millions of dollars, that should be my right.

I have a simple response to that simple argument.

No, that should not be your right.

67 Now McCain will be really pissed, at Republicans.

68 No, that should not be your right.

I bow before the master debater.  Would it kill you to elaborate?

69 I am full of shit of the highest order and I accept full responsibility for the unmitigated failures that my bill and my campaign were after getting my clock clean and my grill waxed.
I am an asshat and a douchenozzle.

I'm John McAislecrosserCain, and I approved this message.

70 Flenser,

The problem with your thinking is that rich guys already can run for office and spend their own money, so they actually get an advantage when large donors are not allowed...they simply spend their own money. Then like Edwards they work for hedge funds when out of office and make even more money to spend the next time around.

Meanwhile, a not-rich candidate cannot get backing from a rich supporter to challenge the super-rich candidate because of campaign finance laws.

Also, as long as the process is open, then we can all see that Soros spent 500 million on Obama, and jee maybe we will be turned off by that. People don't like to feel like their candidate is "owned" by someone.

The reality is that whenever you attempt to limit donations to "small donors" you will end up with trickery and deception to get around this...via credit card payments or simply 527's. Also, the Dems get lots of Union help, which can be done in their own organization and thus appear "off books." We waste a lot of time trying to enforce these laws and probably get very little out of them.

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