1 What? The SEALs didn't sit down and talk with the kidnappers without pre-conditions? Obama will be most disappointed.

2 These are not the seals i know

3 SEALs are kick ass.

4 Damn. If I was that engineer, those SEALs would be family after that.

5

Terrorism 101: Never, ever, EVER!, fuck with the SEALs. It will result in your death.

Do they get cable TV in the mountains of Afghanistan? If so, show them that SEAL commercial with the beach at night, were there is nobody, then a shitload of footprints that dissapear in the sand. Wonder how brave they'll be then.

6 The SEALS were created together by Chuck Norris, Fred Thompson, Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney's Cock and John Bolton's Mustache just in case of THEM ever got too dangerous and had to be stopped.

7 SEALs are indeed awesome, and I love hearing about their work, but I expect to hear about a lot of these high profile missions at the expense of the nitty gritty work the military at large has to do in the GWOT.  Carter led the creation of Delta Force because the idea of a tiny number of superhero-like commandos who always aim perfectly and never make mistakes sounds so great... but when we get hit with whatever Al Qaida, Iran, Russia, or whoever else has planned for our weak future president, it will take thousands of tanks, thousands of planes, and hundreds of thousands of support personnel to fight.

That's what Carter should have sent into Iran... instead he sent in a brand new ultra special force that simply couldn't beat Murphy's law.

I still am amazed at SEALs and Delta and all the other special operators... but they have to fit within a context of a real military.  I hope the SEALs aren't screwed in the near future by Obama's near certain reliance on them.  They are easy to hide... especially when things go wrong, which is why democrats love using them.

8 Christ, airdrop copies of "Rogue Warrior".

That'll get their attention. Seriously.

9 What, no Miranda rights?  No lawyer?  Those SEALS are all racists, anyway.  Well, just more like rednecks.  They're obviously guilty.

10 I love SEALs.

And, Drew, that title rocks.

11 I never get sick of your awesome titles, Drew.

12 That is why I love to pay my taxes!!

13 OT, not sure if anyone else has mentioned it.

Councilman Of Indeterminate Party Affiliation literally urinates all over his constituents at a nightclub in Jersey City, NJ.

http://tinyurl.com/5w5bvv

Finally, an honest NJ Democrat!

Given the voter's response to Murtha's treatment, I guess this is just reelection campaigning by this guy.  Guaranteed reelection.

Qwinn

14 These SEALs are genuine heroes. Heroism, after all, combines bravery with nobility, and that is an entirely different thing than mere raw physical courage.

While there are some questions about the SEAL Teams' quality vs. previous generations due to the necessity to recourse as opposed to drop some failed candidates because of war casualties and expanded numbers of Teams, they continue to perform magnificently.

Besides, that is a concern in almost every special forces unit or otherwise in wartime, particularly by the pre-war regulars, and over and over again the new recruits step up and get the job done.

They are one of the finest special forces units in the world.

15 Hey guys, I was hoping somebody could help me track down a good comic I saw after Obama won. It was two newspaper headlines: One said "2004: Bush wins 51%, Country Divided. The other said "2008: Obama wins 52%, Country United.

16 Found it. With an appropriate link to the original artist's website: http://furiousdiaper.com/?p=400

17

Never, ever, fuck with a SEAL.

Also, avoid pissing off Marine Recon, Delta or USAF Spec Ops.

Death is your only option.

18 lol Murph. I wouldn't piss them off, but they're not indestructible.

I once did an exercise against SEALs and Marine Force Recon*. They were impressive. They definitely didn't always win. That's why you train, though, to improve.


*Nicest bunch of guys. Great attitudes.

19

That's what Carter should have sent into Iran... instead he sent in a brand new ultra special force that simply couldn't beat Murphy's law.

 

Carter was a fucking idiot so how can you say anything about an operation he was involved in. That operation failed because they sent in helicopters that were not equipped for desert operation and troops who were not adequately prepared.

 

Why did that happen?  Because Carter allowed every fucking General and Admiral in the fucking desk-bound world of the Pentagon to get their own mark on the plan via urination.

20 Hope they read the kidnappers their rights, "You have the right to remain dead."

21 Two interesting account of "Jimmy's Desert Classic" are in Eric Haney's Inside Delta Force, and Mark Bowden's Guests of the Ayatollah. The former being the story of a participant, the latter an overview written by a truly talented journalist (and yes, there are still a few of them around). Well worth reading.

22 Nothin' like a little due process, SEAL style.

23 Ah...this is the type of article that starts my day out on a positive note.

Thanks to those still on the front lines and well behind enemy ones...for as long as that will last (April pull out by the new pres?).

24 Did they have to go in shooting? Haven't we seen enough of this "cowboy diplomacy"? Where were the negotiations? Surely, they could have resolved this through talking to one another.

Obama Appeasement Squad: OK, let's all take a deep breath and see what we can work out here. You go first. What are your needs?

Terrorist Scumbag: We want to cut off this imperialist yankee's head, and then drag his corpse through the local villages from the back of the Jeep, while our colleagues at Reuters film the whole thing for our new recruitment video.

OAS: Well, we want to bring him home to his family. What say you cut of his head, but allow us to bring the rest of him home. You get your head, the widow gets to bury a body. See how nice things turn out when everyone gets a little something out of the deal?

TS: Allah be praised. And, here's a box of chocolates for your President.

25 Fuck with the best; end up like the rest.

26

"Why did that happen?  Because Carter allowed every fucking General and Admiral in the fucking desk-bound world of the Pentagon to get their own mark on the plan via urination."

 

I do not understand how the mission went wrong.  He listened to his military advisors.  Isn't this the gold standard for victory?  

27 ahhhhhh great way to start the day.

28 Sometimes people dying just makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

29

davod

Read Haney's book. Then you won't have to say you don't understand.

30 Wow! Our SEALs are the best. We need more of them!!

Oh, and Happy 233rd Birthday to the United States Marine Corps!! Marines rock, too!!

31 United States Marine Corps Birthday Message

32

“Initially, there was one armed man who stopped us and demanded papers from my partner.”

Paging Doctor Kimball. Call your office, please. 

33 They get my SEAL of approval... nice job.

34

Yeah Christoph is super commando Agent Orange.  He battled against Seals and Mariner Recons in his military training against his 3rd favorite country. 

When the training was over, they asked the Seals if they wanted to talk to their friend Christoph some more or retake the waterboarding survival course again and all of them chose waterboarding.

35


I love your headlines..

36 I love hear stories like this, but it doesn't alway work out like this.  Last December I was in Afghanistan training a battery of the Afghan National Army artillery, and two of my Soldiers, Jalal and Naseer, tried to go on leave.  They got on a bus in Kandahar that was stopped by the Taliban.  The Taliban pulled off anyone they thought was ANA or too 'western.'  Jalal and Naseer's bodies were found up in Ghalat a few days later when the Afghan government refused to negotiate.  The ANA commander said that there wasn't even an attempt to rescue them.  The locals who work with us are always in much more danger than we are.

37

I sent this to all my buddies, do the same.

SEALs? WTF how is the underwater training helping at 8,000 ft?

Guess you breath better?  Good work boys!

Kemp

38 Fucking sweet

39 I'd like to read something similar about those Somali pirates (a.k.a. future fish food).

40 Hats off to our men (and women) in the Service.  Still the toughest, most highly trained S.O.B.s in the world.  And better yet, they're OUR SOBs.

41

   BTW, Happy 233rd Birthday, Marines!!

  The Army loves ya too.

42

Christoph - there is no question about the quality of the new generation of SEALs.  They are as tough and as smart as ever and better-trained.  Don't know where you get your info.  I get mine from my son who is a long-time SEAL and a former BUD/S instructor.  He has deployed with the new young guys and he has says they are warriors of highest order.  Michael Monsoor was one of the new young guys, you know.  There's your answer.

Just what kind of training op did you "win" against the SEALs?  And what unit did you belong to that had that distinction?

43 Posted by: Christoph at November 10, 2008 03:11 AM (hawOV)

Video games don't count. Just sayin'.

44 Vic, you're right... I guess no plan of Carter's would have worked without a functional CINC.

The USMC pilots (if I recall correctly... whoever they were they were not prepared, as you said), were a terrible touch of intramilitary rivalry.  But really, if the staging had gone well something else would have failed.  They were going wayyyyyyyyyy out on a limb with that plan because Carter would respond to an act of war with a real war.

Of course, we learned a lot and we now have a broad group of special operators and support now, but even today, it would be foolish to send in the best trained pilots to Desert One on a scheme out of a Chuck Norris movie.  That's my complaint.  Making clear that we were going to absolutely destroy the 'government' of the mullahs would have prevented much of the terrorism war that I think Carter helped create with his silliness.

Terrorism relies on the idea that it can paralyze out leaders.  Bush couldn't be stopped that way, so we've been a lot safer since 9/11.  Obama is practically an invitation for more harm, and what will he send in?  A few missiles into an Aspirin factory?  Some SEALs into the middle of North Korea, not for intel but to take on a ridiculous mission?

We'll see.  I would love to be wrong about this.

45

Wonder how the rest of the captors discovered the raid?

Sounds like only two were on hand. So others probably showed up at some point, found an empty hut and dead buddies. Unless those two worked alone.

On the Carter plan...they also refitted a 737 with rockets that could have it take off on a short, desert runway. Never used it, but I saw the video.

46

Had the Honor of meeting a Navy Seal some years ago. We were partying with a group from the Free-Fall School in Yuma. Special Forces, Rangers, Force Recon, and they were all ribbing this guy.

My first thought when I shook his hand was.....Damn, this guy is about the size of a double door refrigerator. His friendly demeanor was really impressive.

I would venture to guess that this rescued hostage had the same reaction.

47

Richard:

 

I was being facetious.

48 yeah, CJ, that was a sweet idea that I think should have been continued (it was called Credible Sport, I think). 

It was scrapped when Reagan won the election and Carter was a lame duck (and one of them crashed with no casualties).  The system itself was perfectly workable, but the idea of landing super special forces in a soccer field, and taking the hostages, and getting them out, was a far fetched one.  Reagan's idea of WE WILL DESTROY YOU IF YOU DO NOT GIVE OUR FOLKS BACK was obviously more successful.

But like Delta Force, it's not like the idea didn't have uses.  C-130s are amazing aircraft.

49 I just hope no innocents were hurt in the endeavour.

50 w00t

51 Kidnapping guests from a wedding party.  For shame.

52 I love stories like this.  I hope our SEALs are killing as many that need killin' as possible now, because after Jan. 20th they'll be lucky if the Obamanibles don't try every one of them for war crimes.  And if any of you ever read Froggy, you know that the Clinton years were a dry desert for SEALs and special ops - training and partying but none of the killin' they are trained for. 

53 During my time in the Army, I had one encounter with the SEALs. I still have the chipped front tooth.

Summer in Alaska, running around the woods on Ft. Richardson trying to find a SEAL team while they're doing their thing. My squad was patrolling a rather heavily wooded and overgrown area of the post, so we closed ranks into a single file (first mistake), then we started walking down a trail (second, and fatal mistake). Of course, they ambushed us.

With canisters of Mace.

I was lucky, instead of being hit in the face, I was hit in the chest. I did what I was trained to do in a close ambush; assault the ambush, screaming at the top of my lungs, spraying the ground with automatic fire (blanks and MILES gear, of course), and don't stop running until you can't run another step.

Miracle of miracles. I got through the ambush without being shot or maced. So I'm running through the woods trying to reload and dodge trees, all the while thinking "I survived a Navy SEAL ambush....I survived a Navy SEAL ambush".

Of course, I never saw the SEAL pulling rear security. He was waiting for me, took one step out from behind the tree and popped me in the face with the buttstock of his rifle. My feet went flying from under me, and I fell flat on my ass.

Next thing I remember is this HUGE guy standing over me saying "hey buddy, hey buddy, you okay?". I gurgled in my own blood (split lip, chipped tooth) for a moment. Then he said "Yeah, you'll be okay. Here you go."

And he Maced me while I was lying on the ground.

Good times....good times.

54

Senator Murtha announces arrest of Navy SEALS that recently rescued a kidnapped engineer. Murtha was quoted as saying, "These murdering scumbags in the US Military must be brought to justice. Why was there no arrest? Why was there no Miranda reading? I'm telling you, we've got to put a stop to this, it's damaging America's reputation in the World Community."

</sarc>

55 And they sure wont be going to paradise where their going its instead a hot flamming place and their can shake hands with a certian fellow with horns and a pitchfork

56 "Just what kind of training op did you "win" against the SEALs?"

I'm not going to answer that questions specifically.

The SEALs accomplished their objective at times, Marine Recon at other times, and another force which I'm not going to get into had a defensive mission and failed repeatedly against our forces.

My point is SEALs aren't undefeatable. They're great... and they're the best in the world at certain operations, but not all operations. They receive more hours of training than any other special forces unit that I'm aware of.

There are indeed heroes (probably the norm rather than the exception) within their ranks, and incredibly motivated and well-trained people. My only point is a lot of this they're the end-all and be-all of special forces units is mistaken.

Best at what? is the question. Special forces are just that -- specialized.

And in the end, it will come down to the individual whether they're a SEAL, a paratrooper, or a straight-leg grunt.

57 Is it OK to get a mental boner when reading something like this?

58 It's okay to get an actual one.

59 Christoph, please read the article and note - they had the opportunity to apprehend, but didn't - the rules have changed! 

On many previous thread you highlighted the that good American soldiers would follow the "rules" of war.  Are these SEALS "good" soldiers or barbarians; you seem to admire them now.  It's a shame these two  weren't bundled down the mountain in their sleeping bags, to properly constituted tribunal with all of the rights of an American citizen earned by the forefathers of these brave barbarians.

Many good men have died to put paid to the notion that Americans are soft, gentlemanly types who will leave when things get tough.  You need to get back in touch to understand.  Whatever you did with Americans in the past, we barbarians are neither asking for or giving quarter.

60 Jean, I don't know what the hell you're talking about except for perhaps a total misreading of or misstating of my posts.

The "rules" of war don't require combatants to make an arrest. They require combatants to grant quarter if it's asked for. Up until that point, it's kill, kill, and kill, at the combatants' option.

61 "... we barbarians are neither asking for or giving quarter."

If you carry out the last part of that phrase, you're war criminals and JAG should investigate, try, and the military courts should appropriately sentence your members.

Your comment was a bunch of internet bullshit. The article and operation in question had nothing to do with refusing to give quarter.

62 I'm sure quarter would have been granted if Mohammed had asked. Kind of hard to make yourself understood, though, with all of that noisy gunfire directed at your midsection.

Maybe the bad guys should think about airdropping crates of bubble gum on our positions. Can't hurt.

63 VRWC Agent, your comment was humorous, and also pointed out something important.

If it ever got back to a military court, the standard of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt." So if in the heat of battle someone got killed who may have been asking for quarter or even was asking for quarter, and there's a question about whether the soldier/sailor realized this in time, or even if s/he did realize this in time, there was a question about whether quarter could have been granted in a way that would have respected the soldier/sailor's right to self-defense, then the charge should never even be brought and if it is brought, the verdict should be acquittal.

But when -- beyond a reasonable doubt -- U.S. Forces refuse to grant quarter, they are in violation of U.S. military law and probably other laws as well. That's why U.S. Forces do indeed take prisoners.

So put another way, Jean is an idiot. Again. But s/he is consistent.

64

Christoph,  You sound just like the DA lawyers - do you have a nice powerpoint with the rules of land warfare to brief me. I might stay awake.

Of course it against the law - but this started with my comment that our now well experienced NCOs are following the ongoing legal circus here in the US involving detainees and dealing with the problem. 

Continuing to insinuate that US forces will not give as good as they are getting, and remain paragons of virtue is idiotic and undermines a significant evolvement of the psychological battlefield.  The jhadi "community" no longer considers America weak, they fear us now, and worry that we are "crusaders" who are going to "occupy" the Middle East until the oil runs out to crush Islam. This is a sea change.  The insinuation that we won't kill them in there sleep, hunt down their first born in Pakistan, or let them escape from prison so we can rain Hellfires on their heads; borders on providing comfort to the enemy. 

If stories like this one make the next generation of jhadist fear the American bogeyman darkness more then Uncle Mo on a Thrusday night, then we are winning.  Ongoing commentary that Americans will always play nice contributed to the attacks against us and not conductive to victory.

If you have access, there is data regarding detention rates and in contact reports that can be analyzed, however significant actions are now involving indiginous forces - so its not apples to apples.  My thought is we can define a "clear surrender" as them running in a circle yelling something blasphemous; that should cut down on lawyer fees.

 

65 Jean, all I can say is if I said what I said in a U.S. training facility they'd let it stand.

If you said what you said, you'd be pulled aside and the soldiers would be advised to ignore that. You'd find your training days curtailed or over.

Because what you said is bullshit. If some NCOs are advising their men to take no prisoners, it is against U.S. policy.

66

Christoph, the real training happens on patrol.  No one would ever say it in a formal environment.  It doesn't happen until men trust each other, and we have such a depth of veteran small unit leadership that it doesn't need to be said.

But, the jhadist know. 

The bigger problem is your promotion of old standard here in a public forum, the enemy knows we are coming hard, he doesn't need to hear a voice speaking from a position of assumed authority saying our boys are wrong or have the potential of being prescribed by someone in a leadership position. 

A big part of this war is public relations, don't help them win. 

Hell, the New York Times just ran a story on another big rule breaker - that we have policy of preemptive incursions into sovereign states.  That's against the DA rules, too.  Even Obama is backpedaling on torture

 

67 Jean, you're an evil pro-war criminal. I hope you're not serving in the military and if you are, your actions are watched with a fine tooth comb and you're drumbed out the military in disgrace.

You are the sort of person who should be put to death if you acted murderously. American Forces hanged Nazis for it and you would deserve death too.

You're advocating murder. Fuck you.

68 For those interested in this topic, I would recommend "Down Range: Navy SEALs in the War on Terrorism" by Dick Couch.

69 I'm not advocating, Christoph, I'm reporting.  You can continue to ignore reality, go march about in your Napoleonic finery, and roll-up new Paladins for your weekly wargame.  But, the rules have changed - maybe not the laws - but the rules.

I reached out to a Canadian colleague, he suggests you stop calling yourself Canadian and admit your French.

70

I just love reading stories like this were we kick ass.  We do it all the time, but we never hear about it in the mainstream media... Almost NEVER.  You guys are running a great blog here and I'm so happy to have found this.  Amidst all the cued golf-claps of the libs around here, and the media anchors who sound like they're about to cum all over themselves every time they say "President elect Obama" (God, what will they do when they don't have to say "elect" anymore? ....  Anyway, amidst this firestorm of idiocy, it's so nice to see so many people out here still cheering for MY America.  It gives me faith that the endeavors I continue to pursue are not in vain.  Thanks you all!

-- Jim - Jacksonville, FL

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72 I would like to give a very big THANKYOU to the fine work the SEALs did that morning. You risked your lives to make the rescue on the side of the mountain with no place to set any equipment down.  My prayers are with you that, you also, will be coming home safe and sound.  Let me not forget the rest of the support personel that backed up this team that made the rescue a success.  Many THANKS to you also for all the hours of time preparing.  These few words can not express our gratitude, but another BIG THANKYOU. 

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