1 Wow, just Wow

2

and exactly what was he doing that was illegal?

3

While I'm curious as to what got the whole thing started, It doesn't look good for the Philly PD.  or the rest of us conservatives.

And just how freightening was that crowd of Obama supporters?  Why am I reminded of Munich in the early 30's?

4 Thus the demise of the First Amendment

5 You know, I really had hoped that the fears of Obama's brownshirts were overblown.  Clearly, it took less than a week for conservatives to start getting arrested simply for disagreeing with the anointed one. 

Prepare to defend yourselves.

6 Buy all the guns you can ...NOW!!!

7 No this isn't the demise of the first amendment. Don't get me wrong, I'm a conservative voter and supported McCain/Palin with time and money. The cops told him to walk away and he didn't. There was no assault on him or the cameraman. This is hyperbole and it doesn't do us any good. The cops did him a favor - the Obamatrons would have torn him to shreds. There is a time and place for exercising your freedom of speech - this was not it.

8 Wow, you can't go into a crowd and start talking shit and then act like a mouthy asshole to cops anymore if you're wearing a political t-shirt?  That is soooo totally different from what's been happening for years.

It's going to be entertaining watching you morons start complaing about communications spying and Patriot Act information requests and develop a strange new respect for the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments.
 

9

I know I have already done this a couple of times, but I want to apologize to everybody who may have been affected in any small weird way by comments I left here. It was really irresponsible and reckless and I am sorry. 

10 The crowd chanting Obama as he's being arrested was pretty chilling.

11 Sue baby sue. Maybe he can get the Instapundit to defend him.

12 Zeus
You're having a nice day sir? You're feeling allright? Not
to get to personal, but a white man
standing in the middle of Harlem, wearing a sign that says:
I hate N*****, has either gotsome
personal issues or not all his doll that are barking.

Zeus
Hey, I'm talking to you. Now you've got about 10seconds
before those guys see you. And
when they do, they will kill you, you understand? You are
about to have a very bad day.

13 The cops did him a favor - the Obamatrons would have torn him to shreds.

It's the cops' responsibility to keep that from happening, by resisting violence not caving to the threat of it.

14 That may be true, but the police probably had no right to tell him to leave. They arrested him because they didn't want to do their real job.

15 I would caution that we don't know what happened before the beginning of the video.  Cameras and editors both lie.

16 everyone read atlas shrugged and then take your wealth elsewhere

17 I'm sure the ACLU is sending their top attorneys to Philthadephia to clear this up.  And judging from the spirit of bipartisanship that the Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers will surely put into place, that unfortunate young man will be a guest of honor at the inaugural ball.  Hey, was that another unicorn I saw???

18 The cops told him to walk away and he didn't.

Showing up where you aren't wanted by others is not a crime.  Peaceable assembly remains a 1st amendment right.

19 Dude's got some serious stones if he's willing to walk into that crowd with a McCain/Palin t-shirt on.

On the one hand, the Philadelphia PD was out of line for arresting this guy. 

But, on the other hand, you sort of understand the motive behind wanting to keep that guy away from that specific crowd.   In fact, the cops were probably already scared that the crowd was on the edge. 

A McCain/Palin tshirt could easily be the spark that sets of the explosion, and next thing you know, Philadelphia's burned to the ground. 

Thanks Obama!

20

I would say that the cops were clearly trying to help this poor slob. Perhaps next he will get a shirt with the Confederate Battle Flag on it and walk through Harlem. You know, exercise his right to speech and heritage at the same time.

21 Yeah, that crowd is s-c-a-r-y.  Geez.

22 Anyone know if they charged the guy with anything? If so, what were the charges?

23 This guy is lucky, getting arrested was probably the best outcome for him.  Don't smoke while you are filling your gas tank, don't disobey a lawful order from a police officer, don't wade into an Obamitized crowd at a victory rally with a McCain/Palin shirt on. 

24 The guy was not acting violent. He wanted to go to his car which was in the direction of the MOB. The police could have escorted him to his car but they chose to arrest him.

Oh, and ANY TIME and ANYWHERE is a time/place to exercise our freedom of speech.

We can't put signs in our yard of the candidate we support for fear of vandalism. We can't put stickers on our cars for fear of vandalism. We can't wear shirts showing our support for our candidate for fear of being arrested or "torn to shreads". WTF???

If we continue on this path and not stand up and fucking fight, we lose. I'm not standing down ... ever.

25 IreneFingIrene, too funny. That scene was the first thought I had when I saw the vid.

26 Cops are now supporting the lefties. And none of the cool kids like Bush anymore, totally shocking.

27 See you in the camps!

28 Philly's gonna have to put a lot of zeroes on that check.

29 don't disobey a lawful order from a police officer

I wasn't aware, 'you may not walk down a street where people don't like your shirt or your politics' was a lawful order.

Thanks Obama!

30 Oh, and ANY TIME and ANYWHERE is a time/place to exercise our freedom of speech.

SCOTUS has ruled and continuously upheld Time, Place, Manner restrictions on free speech.  However, wearing a t-shirt featuring the name of the person you voted for cannot possibly be considered the same as waving a Confederate Flag in Harlem.

31 Ann Coulter was right, the people in PA ARE retards.

32 Hmm, was he really arrested and booked? Or did they just relocate him? Cops sometimes taxi people out of danger. The crowd seemed like it would be dangerous for dissidents roam among.

I am not saying that I think the guy should be carted off for wearing a McCain/Palin shirt. But lets be honest a bunch like this looks like they are on the edge of a riot and a simple catalyst, like someone with a differing opinion, could result in violence and a riot. Tyranny of the majority, for sure...

33

At least he didn't get the "don't taze me, bro" treatment.

34 Mob rule, just like the wonderful French whose high opinion we value so desperately.

Europe, how do you like us now?

35 This what I found through WND (not my favorite source, but the only source with any information):

Sgt. Ray Evers told WND the man, whose name was not released, was arrested for disorderly conduct and public drunkenness.

"He was causing large crowds to form around him," Evers said, adding that he also "was not listening to police commands."

"He was asked several times to leave the area," the sergeant said. "He refused several commands from police to leave the area."

"Disorderly Conduct," is a pretty broad charge, isn't it? Doesn't it just mean "Anything a cop doesn't like."

36 Looked like they put handcuffs on him ... pay attention, annoyamouse.

37 The crowd seemed like it would be dangerous for dissidents roam among.

Then disperse the unruly and illegal crowd. That's what fucking cops are for.

38 It's a case of absolutism vs. pragmatism.  Yes, the man has an absolute first amendment right to be there.  However, chances are he was going to get his ass kicked by that frightening mob.    So  three cops can either a) decide to protect the guy from a mob of 10,000 while he attempts to engage them, or b) remove the guy from the area, diffusing the situation.  It's a matter of discretion.  Cops make decisions like this all the time, and based on that video, they made the right one.

39

Myself and friend, both in our 70's, stopped at a convenience store Saturday afternoon for beverage.  The store was located about two miles from the center of West Palm Beach, FL.  As we left the store, a group of young black males were outside and they said, "fuck you motherfuckers, we in charge now."

We said nothing but simply got in the car and dialed 911.  The police responded, took our names and explanation, confronted the black males, and a verbal confrontation began.  It was over quickly, as the police arrested the ring leader and told the others to leave the area.  The arrested boy continued to shout at us with verbal threats and abusive language. 

We are in for a long haul, and it may ultimately come to full confrontation.  The only thing missing from the story is that my friend had a weapon in his car, and as military retired, would have used it in a heartbeat.  The punk was lucky he didn't follow us to the car.  There will be another day and another time for this punk to die. 

40 Aw, man!  I posted that in the comments on the football thread.

41 Looked like they put handcuffs on him ... pay attention, annoyamouse.


Handcuffing someone is not an arrest, he could be simply detained, and released from the station.

42 "Oh, and ANY TIME and ANYWHERE is a time/place to exercise our freedom of speech. " You are totally wrong and ignorant of 1st amendment law. You cannot stand in my back yard with a bullhorn at 3 am and give a speech. Time and place are properly regulated. The police made a sound decision to keep the public order by keeping this guy away from a mob that was on the verge of riot. #13: "It's the cops' responsibility to keep that from happening, by resisting violence not caving to the threat of it." Maybe you can go down to Philly and tell those cops what their responsibilities are and how to carry them out. Good luck with that.

43 Cops make decisions like this all the time, and based on that video, they made the right one.

Bullshit. If mob rule wins, why the fuck have cops at all?

44 You think they would have burned Phily to the ground?  And that is a bad thing?  This election has put race relations BACK 100 years. 

45 Oh, and ANY TIME and ANYWHERE is a time/place to exercise our freedom of speech.

Likewise, ANY TIME and ANYWHERE is a time/place to exercise your freedom to walk down the street safely, without getting your ass handed to you by a bunch of street corner thugs.

Unfortunately, that's not the way the world works, sometimes it's better to quietly retreat and exercise your rights at somewhere other than 3am on a back street in Bedford-Stuyvesant.

46 Public drunkenness . . . .o yeah.  He was definitely in the cop's face.

The tape starts after the cops arrive.  Why?  What happened before then?  Somehow I doubt he was just standing around.  I suspect he was calling people out and offering ass-kickings to attract police attention.  City cops are usually not looking to hassle people, they have enough to keep them busy with real crime.  

47

However, wearing a t-shirt featuring the name of the person you voted for cannot possibly be considered the same as waving a Confederate Flag in Harlem.

 

As far is first amendment rights go it is exactly the same thing. And it appears that both would be equally well at stirring up a bunch of uncivilized assholes who have been raised in the streets because their drug-addled moms couldn’t be bothered.

48 If you squint you just make out a boot stepping on a human face.

49 Look at all the moles defending the cops and Obamabots. I'm sure the mob was being extremely orderly and not one of them was drunk off their ass ... but let's give those assholes a pass.

50

Speaking of cops arresting people for truly NO REASON, does anyone know what ever happened to that ABC reporter who was arrested for filming the Democrap big-wigs meeting with the lobbyists?

51 Fish,

You and your pal rock.  The world needs more dangerous old men.

52 The PPD say that he was arrested, so, that ambiguity is resolved. They may drop the charges in light of the publicity, but this is still scary.

53 I am a Philly police detective, and I think this is despicable.  Yet another black eye for my department.  I apologize for the Philly P.D.

54 Vic,

I don't have a link handy but I remember reading a couple of weeks ago that the charges were dropped. No word on a lawsuit.

55 WB - Standing in your backyard would be tresspassing and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.  He was in a public place and ordered to leave by cops who didn't want to inforce the 1st admendant. 

56 There is a longer version of the video on youtube that starts several minutes before this one.  I won't link it because it was taken by some truther idiot.  He walks up on the guy who was pretty much just standing there and not taunting anyone.

You can find the video in the related videos on youtube.

Don't know why he had a plastic sword stuffed down the back of his shirt, though.

57 Unless their is some serious missing context this fucked up, and note how violently the cops grab him.

58 It looked like the cops were in his face, not the other way around ...

59

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

60

DrewM;

 

Thanx

 

61 Would I do what this guy did? Nope. But these are the same people that say offensive speech must be allowed at all times. Sarah Palin is a ____ t-shirts outside of McCain rallies never happened right?

Icus. I believe you are not capable of rational thought.

62 A McCain/Palin tshirt could easily be the spark that sets of the explosion, and next thing you know, Philadelphia's burned to the ground.

And you say that like it's a bad thing.

63 Isn't that deranged mob supposed to be chanting "from52to48withlove"?

64 Oh my God. Help us.

65 I wouldn't go out on a limb over this.  This video is both a shorter and an edited version of a longer video posted over at Atlas Shrugs.  First, the longer video screams of crankery -- it was made by a New World Order tinfoil hat guy.  Second, and more importantly, the guy in the McCain shirt had some kind of plastic sword or saber tucked down the back of it.

Maybe that's innocuous, but you should note that this video deliberately edits out the footage of the sword.  The cut occurs at approximately 20 seconds in.

The full video is here:
http://tinyurl.com/63roj4

It's just not quite as innocent as it looks.

66 That was chilling.  Seriously terrifying.

67 Handcuffing someone is not an arrest, he could be simply detained, and released from the station.

In Philly, if we handcuff someone, we better damned well charge them.  Otherwise, we'll be answering yet another lawsuit.  If they were going to do anything, the officers should have asked him to come with them, relocated him away from the mob, and then let him go.

Personally, I think that if the man was just standing there, the officers (and supervisors on the scene) should be disciplined for false arrest.

68 The tape starts after the cops arrive.  Why?

Hmmm...this reminds me of the Rodney King tape.

But you know what, if being an asshole on the street is enough to have you detained and removed from an area, then I guess Leftie protesters of Republican political events are fair game too.

The Philly cops are not new to punishing conservatives for free speech.  There is the sad case of Don Adams who committed the crime of getting beaten up by union thugs under the eye of the Philly cops and had to pay court fees, to add insult to serious injury.
http://tinyurl.com/6sb2bp

69

Dubya Bee-

You sound like the condemned man who willingly places his neck in the noose.

If that works for you, go with it. You have found the safety of your fear.

It will never work for us.

70 It's not a matter of giving drunken disciples of the Dark Lord a pass, or protecting the right of one drunken McCain Palin supporter to confront them.. The cops' first duty in a situation like this is to prevent a riot which, I'm sure  in their estimation, was imminent. 

There were thousands of drunken disciples in the streets, and three cops to protect the McCain supporter.  Even if they called for backups, it would have required bringing in the riot squad and horses, which takes time.  The situation was happening at that moment.  They didnt have the luxury of doing that, so they just got the guy out of there. 

71 And it appears that both would be equally well at stirring up a bunch of uncivilized assholes who have been raised in the streets because their drug-addled moms couldn’t be bothered.

Heh.  I agree fully.  Expressing your unpopular political preference in the US is exactly the design of the 1st Amendment.  Walking down the street wearing a t-shirt reading "Carry 2 million dollars cash, and Unarmed." is just stupid.  You still have the right to do so, and be free of government intrusion. 

Here's the catch:  Police are to protect the public at large, not you personally.

72 1 point for the cops: The Phillies won the World Series this year.  They knew how amped the crowd was likely to get.

1 point against the guy: Arguing with the police, especially inner-city police, is not for amateurs, and he obviously didn't bring his A-game.

1+ infinity points against Obama and every welfare-addicted lackey that voted for him.  Joe the Plumber showed us what was possible and now we really see what is likely.  These people are zombies intent on eating the brains of anyone stupid enough to voice any kind of dissent against the new established order.  The fear of mob violence will drive law enforcement to crush any public displays against Obama, and his friends and the rest of the Democrat party knows it.

73 The point is that this video is deliberately misleading.  Otherwise, why'd they edit out the sword?

74 I'm still a loser who leeches off society. I'd fit right in at that celebration.

75

Speaking of context, one other thing about this to keep in mind is that you are seeing only a small part of what happened. Remember that Rodney King video that the networks showed over and over and thus incited the denizens of South Central to riot and burn down their neighborhood. When the jury looked at all of the video and heard the testimony they ruled that the police were entirely justified.

 

A lone fool wearing a McCain/Palin shirt into an Obama rally doesn’t pass the smell test to begin with. So lets not be too quit to judge here.

76 Just so you know, the guy who shot the video is a 911 truther. (no
comment on the tape itself)


You can go to Atlas Shrugged to see the whole tape.  If you follow it back to it's YouTube source you get this:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Philly911Truth

77 This is probably the first time anyone in that mob has ever cheered for, or been on the side of those policemen.  Scary stuff.  I thought they're all supposed to be "pigs" and racist and crap.

78 Well, I've never been arrested so I didn't know ... I just figured being cuffed meant you were being arrested. Guess, I watch too many cop shows. LOL.

I watched the longer version (love it when the videotaker says here's Obama's Youth Corps) and it did look like the guy was just standing there.

79 You think they would have burned Phily to the ground?

I thought that was the Mayor's job.

80 There were thousands of drunken disciples in the streets, and three cops to protect the McCain supporter.  Even if they called for backups, it would have required bringing in the riot squad and horses, which takes time.  The situation was happening at that moment.  They didnt have the luxury of doing that, so they just got the guy out of there.

Posted by: ombudsman at November 09, 2008 04:30 PM (fWF4Q)

Again, bullshit.

Fist, they didn't just get the guy out of there...they arrested him.

Second, again answer me this question...if mob rules win why have cops? If the exercise of my rights is dependent upon the acquiescence of 'thousands of drunken disciples in the streets' and the cops are only going to enforce the laws against the ones it easier to then I either have no rights or must find a way to ensure that I may exercise them.

81 The store was located about two miles from the center of West Palm Beach, FL.

You didn't make the mistake of stopping on Tamarind Ave somewhere did you?  That area is where all the drug murders happen.

82
"Buy all the guns you can ...NOW!!!
Posted by: Fred Shwartz at November 09, 2008 03:53"

Fred's right! Listen to Fred!!

83 O-bots are a hell of a lot scarier than the cops, at least in that video.  I guess they didn't get the 52 hearts 48 memo. 

84 Mother said no more stuffing radishes in my butt.

85

Ha, so the guy filming was a truther. How much would anyone like to bet that the entire thing was a setup and that is what pissed the cops off.

86

As a non-retard resident of sounth-central PA, I'm disgusted by this video.  Both Philly and New Jersey could drop into the ocean for all I care.  The beach would be a hell of a lot closer. 

However, you have to pick the hill you want to die on and this wasn't it.  Sure, we have the 1st Amendment right to dissent, but the thugs in that crowd would have kicked this guy's ass and probably begun to riot and loot the businesses in the area.  One clown would have caused a huge loss for many innocent people.  And, no telling how many cops would have been put at risk.  A little common sense goes a long way. 

It pains me to say this, but this asshole should have expressed his dissent elsewhere.  Man, I hate Philly! 

 

87

I would say that the cops were clearly trying to help this poor slob. Perhaps next he will get a shirt with the Confederate Battle Flag on it and walk through Harlem. You know, exercise his right to speech and heritage at the same time.

A McCain-Palin t-shirt is the same as a Confederate flag?  Interesting -- it's either an indication of your state of inebration or the state of education.

88 You think they would have burned Phily to the ground?

I thought that was the Mayor's job.


Yes, and then hire a corrupt contractor to rebuild the houses.

Oh, and then get handily re-elected.   I love my city.

89 "I suspect he was calling people out and offering ass-kickings to attract police attention."

And you suspect that because???? Oh, because he was wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt, and we already know what you think of McCain, and Palin, so any supporter must be calling people out and offering ass-kickings. That's pretty much the MO of anyone who supports McCain-Palin....

You really are a total idiot, living in a bizarre make-believe world.

Please go back there.

90 My issue here is not the guy, Why have a guy follow a guy with a McCain shirt on unless you expected something worth filming? I don't care to guess what he did when the camera was not on.

My point is Code Pink does much worse. What about the 2000 homosexuals that marched on the Mormon temple after prop 8 passed? Provocative speech is only allowed if it is liberal?

91 In Philly, if we handcuff someone, we better damned well charge them.

Fair enough, and a no-win situation.   We can handcuff detainees if the situation warrants, but it has to be clearly spelled out that "you are being detained, you are not under arrest."  The average person sees handcuffs, and assumes arrest, and the difference is not well understood by the public.

92 I don't know if he was drunk or not, but I did not see ANY violent or even sarcastic attitude toward the police.

He has a right to be on that street. And I would bet my house that there were more drunks in the Obama crowd.

This does not bode well for any of us.

93 Maybe that's innocuous, but you should note that this video deliberately edits out the footage of the sword.  The cut occurs at approximately 20 seconds in.

The full video is here:
http://tinyurl.com/63roj4

It's just not quite as innocent as it looks.

Oh yeah, WTF is this country coming to when you can't go into a crowd drunk, fired up on 9/11 and Bilderburgers/NWO truth, wearing a McCain t-shirt and carrying a replica samurai sword?  Goddamn it, carrying a fake samurai sword is protected by the First Amendment!

Comedy gold, watching you chumps get pwned again like with Ashley Todd.

94 Maybe that's innocuous, but you should note that this video deliberately edits out the footage of the sword.  The cut occurs at approximately 20 seconds in.

The full video is here:
http://tinyurl.com/63roj4

It's just not quite as innocent as it looks.

Oh yeah, WTF is this country coming to when you can't go into a crowd drunk, fired up on 9/11 and Bilderburgers/NWO truth, wearing a McCain t-shirt and carrying a replica samurai sword?  Goddamn it, carrying a fake samurai sword is protected by the First Amendment!

Comedy gold, watching you chumps get pwned again like with Ashley Todd.

95

Interesting -- it's either an indication of your state of inebration or the state of education.

 

Actually that statement reflects your lack of capability for rational thought.

96

If the cops stopped and detained him for the weapon then the "just walk away" stuff was bullshit. IF the cop felt the sword was indeed a potential threat then all bets are off. But, if someone is in a crowd and has a weapon of any type then telling that person to just go away is irresponsible.

Clearly the police just wanted him to go because he was causing the rest of the crowd to get overheated. As someone said earlier they should have escorted him to his car and ensured he drove away from the area.

Can't wait to see how the Philly City Council reacts after they get several thousand phone calls.

97 So nobody's interested in the sword or thinks it's all significant that this video was carefully edited to remove it?  Be careful about that, I'm telling you.

Note, it couldn't be an innocent excision, because the moments exactly before and exactly after we see the sword have been removed.  Look at the goofy cut at 20 seconds.

Look, the Obamabots are creepy and alarming, and lord knows an Obama supporter wouldn't have needed assistance in a crowd of Republicans had McCain won, but this isn't the best example of the lunacy..

98 right icus - like a school teacher berating a student - glad you guys have the moral high ground

99 Wow, so icus is afraid of a plastic sword ... they do so much damage, don't ya know.

LOL!

100

my only surprise is that people are surprised by this.,.

what? did you think the thug-in-chief and his crazy minions would *ease off* once they gained control of the levers of power when they don't even have to worry about keeping a bare minimum fascade for appearance's sake anymore? when they showed an utter disregard for the rights of others and American principles *before* they won? come on...this is not lefty/liberal politics as usual (that'd be bad enough)...this is a whole new game...it's past time to figure that much out.

101 81 - Not on Tamarind, but from the cornor of Palm Beach Lakes and Australian, go north one block to the small shopping center with a dry cleaners and the Spice Restaurant. 

102 However, you have to pick the hill you want to die on and this wasn't it.

Probably yes, tactically for the individual involved.  Strategically, having an Obama mob murder an apparently harmless McCain supporter would instantly rock Obama back on his heels and put him on the defensive, and compel him to mute his rhetoric for quite a while.

Mobs murdering people is something the media would have trouble covering up.

103 If he was wielding a sword, fake or otherwise, he deserved what he got. I know better than to take things at face value and yet it's easy to get caught up.

Generally, I like police and think they do the right thing.

104 Guys, please don't make me have to defend the trolls, but if the sword is innocuous, then why deliberately remove all references to it from the video?

105 "I suspect he was calling people out and offering ass-kickings to attract police attention."

And you suspect that because????

I just had a feeling because he looked acted like a DK asshole.  One that is stronger now that I know he had a realistic looking plastic samurai sword stuck into the back of his t-shirt.

Question is, who edited the video to cut that inconvenient image out?

106 Icus.

Follow the bouncing ball. The logic here runs like this. If a liberal can protest at a military funeral and not expect to get assaulted, then this idiot should expect the same protection.

Why aren't you helping your messiah build Utopia? That's right, you were just a tool.

107

 How much would anyone like to bet that the entire thing was a setup and that is what pissed the cops off.

Don't you just sound like the little truther yourself... and they also got the freakin'  scary Obamaloons to chant in unison in approval of the arrest, etc.??  Yep, yep, yep...

Do you clowns ever get tired of being yourselves?

I hope this helps.

108 This looks like training exercise for obama's new civilian defense force. Or maybe this is the way they are looking for new recruits.

109
They may have updated the video since you saw it, but the video I saw says "toy sword stolen by Obama kool-aid drinker." Or something like that. So they did mention it.

110 Posted by: Kensington at November 09, 2008 04:42 PM (xFNQx)

I watched the longer version and it's still just as bad.

Why exactly is the plastic sword so significant? Goofy but so what?

I might be missing something but there's nothing on the tape that says the camera guy (the truther) is connected to the guy arrested. The truthers generally aren't McCain fans you know.

111 Why exactly is the plastic sword so significant? Goofy but so what?

Because it was painstakingly removed, Drew.  If it's merely goofy, then why take it out?

112 corner of Palm Beach Lakes and Australian

I know exactly where that is.   I think that might actually be in Riviera Beach rather than West Palm.  I put a new 600A 3-phase service in some shithole warehouse just a few blocks away from that corner a few years ago. 

113 The guy went into a crowd appearing to be carrying a weapon... the cops did the right thing. Let's stop trying to defend this.

114

The cops were probably on edge. Seems like a stunt a liberal would pull...force a confrontation for the camera.

The difference, of course, is that it would get decent play in the MSM. Right now, nothing be found at www.philly.com. Not a whisper.

 

115

I hope more details come out and put this in a better perspective.  Until then, I'll take it at face value for these comments:

1.  The city of Philly will be writing a large check. 

2.  Most blacks that I know personally aren't part of the thug mentality clearly on display with the chanting crowd.  There is a faction of the black community that will be emboldened to display their juice since "a brother" is president.    They will antaganize at every chance and then cry racism when/if the rule of law is used to regulate or punish them.

3.  I went to an NFL game recently wearing the jersey of the visiting team.  I cheered vocally when appropriate and had every expectation of doing so reasonably safely.  If I had been beaten, legitimately threatened, or physically harassed because of my shirt, who has the problem, me or the NFL?

4.  By some of your logic, 20,23,28, the schools in Alabama would still be segregated...I recall some angry crowds trying to refuse the black students entry into the school and the cops protecting the students. 

 

 

116 The original video NWO/Bilderburgers/9/11 narration and the idea of carrying a plastic samurai sword into a crowd also, unfortunately, indicate mental illness.

117 He wasn't wielding the plastic sword. It was stuck in the back of his shirt. If those things are dangerous or scary, or even considered a weapon, don't buy one for your kids. I've seen them. I've held one. They don't cut, they don't even hurt if you smack it against someone.

The point is, and even from the longer version, the guy was standing around. I wish there was an even longer version because I bet the mob approached him first. The police asked him to leave. He asked why. That's when they started getting rough with him. He told them his car was parked in the direction of the mob. They wouldn't let him go to his car. Then they handcuffed him.

He didn't seem drunk to me ... anyone else?

118

Let us supposed that a stupid liberal came out with his Che T-Shirt and strolled through a crowd of drunken rangers who were celebrating their return from hostile territory and attempted to get in their face.

 

Do you recon’ he would stand a good chance of getting his ass kicked? Probably, the only difference would be that even drunken rangers are more civilized than typical inner-city denizens and would likely not kill him just for the fun of it.

119 Look at the whole video at Atlas Shrugs. The guy was caring some sort of very large sword or club on his back.

120 What's the world coming to when you can't carry around a plastic sword?  If it had a sharpened polycarbonate blade, that might be a different story...

121 112 - The Riviera Beach divider is at 59th Street in West Palm Beach, so the location is about equidistant to 10th, so Riviera is 49 blocks north, and yes it's a hell hole consisting of ill-skilled blacks, under performing whites, crack heads, meth puffers, and the usual assortment of O'Bambi voters.

122 Because it was painstakingly removed, Drew.  If it's merely goofy, then why take it out?

Posted by: Kensington at November 09, 2008 04:49 PM (xFNQx)

I'm sorry but that's crazy.

First, it wasn't 'painstakingly removed'. The longer video has a couple of sections. The version Ace posted simply picked up the action later. That's not painstaking by any stretch of the imagination.

Watch the longer version with the sword and explain how it changes anything.

You just making some unfounded leap based on it not being there but unless you can explain why it means something when it's show, you've got nothing.

123 An interesting 2 minutes of video.

I can pass judgment once I've seen the 15 or so preceding it.

124 Yes, bard, it was a fucking PLASTIC TOY SWORD. OOOOhhhh, scary!

125

Do you recon’ he would stand a good chance of getting his ass kicked?

I reckon' they'd laugh in his face until he cried and ran away.

 

126

Don't you just sound like the little truther yourself... and they also got the freakin'  scary Obamaloons to chant in unison in approval of the arrest, etc.??  Yep, yep, yep...

Do you clowns ever get tired of being yourselves

 

You are really a fucking idiot if you got all of that out of what I posted. The intent here, and I am typing slow so even a retard can understand it, the truther asshole had a stupid buddy come in to do this in front of the cops so he could film. Hell, he may have even got a wino from down the street to put this shit on and walk through the crowd for a bottle of ripple.

 

So how about some of you people use a little bit of fucking common sense here. I am sure that there will be a lot of more applicable abuses by the real Obominites rather than this stupid shit by a bunch of drunken street hoods.

 

Are if YOU feel so fucking strongly about it, put on a McCain shirt and stroll through South Central or what ever the nearest fucking Ghetto is.

 

127 #8 amen
we don't know the entire story here
obviously the guy wanted some confrontation or why was he there? We should still have in this country the right of peace officers to "keep the peace". He was probably released in a few hours. I just can't get too worked up about this kind of thing. I worry more about Obama now having people like that Ohio (joe the plumber) records lady under his direct control. Much more worrisome.

128 The city of Philly will be writing a large check.

Wrong.  The fake-but-realistic (at least from a few feet) sword get them over the probable cause hump for the disorderly person arrest with ease.  Mr. Zatoichi the blind-drunk plastic swordsman will be writing a check to the Pennsylvania courts.

129 Vic: From the longer version, the truther leaves his house. It appears like he came upon the McCain supporter by chance.

130

Posted by: DrewM. at November 09, 2008 04:55 PM (hlYel)

No, Drew, get a grip.  Ace's video doesn't merely pick up the action later.  It includes the footage immediately before and immediately after the sword is seen.  The cut takes place in Ace's video at approximately :20 in.  That's why I say "painstakingly removed."  The footage isn't merely shortened, it's edited.

It means something because whoever put together Ace's edit knows that the sword undermines the argument.  That's the only possible reason why it would have been removed.

131 Walking into an O'Bambi lovefest with a McCain/Palin T-shirt on makes as much sense as entering a Rosie O'Donnell hen party with a big boner thinking you're going to fuck only the pretty one. 

132 No shit, docweasel. I'm sure we'll be hearing similar stories once Gutterball gets into the oval office.

133 It appears like he came upon the McCain supporter by chance.

I thought so, too, but there is an edit there as well. So who knows.

134 Yes, bard, it was a fucking PLASTIC TOY SWORD. OOOOhhhh, scary!

So why, then, was the footage of the innocent plastic toy sword removed by whoever made the edit that Ace has linked?  Why bother doing that?  Note, again, that it's not merely an edit for time, because the footage right before and right after is still intact.

135 LOL, Fish!

Kensington, that was the youtube I found and posted earlier. I didn't know there was a longer version. Give Ace a break, ok. You sound like Ace posted the shorter version, knowing the plastic sword piece was edited out.

136

Fuck Fuck bull fucking shit fuck!!!

There were communist flags outside the white house on election eve, and the media was thrilled that the residents of the white house probably would not be able to sleep, then we do this to another citizen that is on the other side of the spectrum.  Free speech for me, but not for thee.  My ASS!!!!

Fuck NO.... that's total bullshit.

Oh, and I left out that someone is obviuosly a sucker of cock.  Which is likely most of the trolls on this thread.

137

Vic: From the longer version, the truther leaves his house. It appears like he came upon the McCain supporter by chance.

 

That’s fine, he may have come on him by chance without it being scripted. But that doesn’t take away from the fact this is much ado about nothing.

138 Posted by: ms. docweasel at November 09, 2008 04:58 PM (SOSlE)

obviously the guy wanted some confrontation or why was he there?

Oh noes! Someone dared to 'confront' people about politics? How will the Republic survive?

We should still have in this country the right of peace officers to "keep the peace".

Sure, they why didn't they keep the peace by dealing with an unrully mob?

He was probably released in a few hours.

How long are you willing to be detained by police for wearing a shirt a mob doesn't like?

I just can't get too worked up about this kind of thing.

Send Ace an email, maybe he'll delete the post since you don't care.

I worry more about Obama now having people like that Ohio (joe the plumber) records lady under his direct control. Much more worrisome.

Okay but why is that the bright line but not being arrested for wearing a shirt a mob doesn't like?

139 OK. I have got to say this. Atlas Shrugged seems to be drawn to questionable things. She was really pushing the Phil Berg-Obama birth certificate thing and Michelle Obama API story. Just saying.....

140 Posted by: Kensington at November 09, 2008 05:00 PM (xFNQx)

So even after watching it you can't explain why it's important but you are sure it is.

Um ok.

141 The police did not "disarm" him, or even show much interest in the toy sword. That's not what it was about.

142 You sound like Ace posted the shorter version, knowing the plastic sword piece was edited out.

Bullshit, icognito.  I've written nothing of the sort, and I presume that Ace posted this video in good faith.  That said, he should probably take it down or at least put up the version that shows the sword.

143 If it were me I would have taken on that entire crowd with my Special Forces ninja skillz!

144 So even after watching it you can't explain why it's important but you are sure it is.

So even after I showed you how the edit was not as innocent as you claimed, you have nothing to say about it's deliberate removal except that...uh...present?

Um, okay.

145 [Icus, I'm deleting your post for your own protection. It might incite the commenters.] -Trollbuster Agent 5

146 Sorry, kensington. Ace's edit. Ace's video. Just saying ...

147

Posted by: Kensington at November 09, 2008 05:08 PM (xFNQx)

I hear ya. Let's not end up with egg on our face. Again.

Is that that Kensington, as in the Philly neighbhorhood?

148 I thought we were supposed to express our freedom of speech responsibly?  Trying to piss off a crazed mob of Obamabots after there have been threats of riots does not seem very responsible to me. 

149 Exactly, #141, it looks like an Obamabot disarmed him.

150

What's hilarious about this thread is the way so-called "conservatives" are defending a couple of whacko assholes out looking for trouble and trashing regular city cops out doing their jobs as fascists now.

Nice try.

Better luck next time.

151 Is that that Kensington, as in the Philly neighbhorhood?

No, Brooklyn's Kensington.

152 So even after I showed you how the edit was not as innocent as you claimed, you have nothing to say about it's deliberate removal except that...uh...present?

Posted by: Kensington at November 09, 2008 05:08 PM (xFNQx)

I just rewatched and you're right that it was edited there and I was wrong that it ran straight through. I grant you that.

That still not proof of anything. If Ace had posted the video that is linked to in comment 76 I would still have said everything I've said to date about the action of the cops.

You still can't tell me why the sword is important. All you are telling me is that the edit is important. Watch the unedited version and tell me straight up if you agree with the cops or not.

153

You think they would have burned Phily to the groun!

Yeah, it's called urban renewal!

154

No, Brooklyn's Kensington.

Hope it's in better shape than the Philly one.

155 Posted by: icus at November 09, 2008 05:08 PM (ns9RC)

Here's the thing icus, conservatives for the most part aren't too concerned about the rights of foreign terrorists outside of the US (as if they have any). We are very concerned about the rights of US citizens. It's the left that has its priorities screwed up in those areas.

156

Actually, the Philly police arrested the two black panthers wielding a real billyclub outside a voting location, ensuring peace and order and protecting the thugs from unruley voters.  So, they're pretty consistent, right?

 

157 "You still can't tell me why the sword is important. All you are telling me is that the edit is important. Watch the unedited version and tell me straight up if you agree with the cops or not."

Drew, I don't know whether the sword is important, and had it not been edited out I wouldn't even mention it.  However, it seems clear that the person who edited it out thinks it's important, and that edit is so deliberately misleading that it makes me suspicious about what I'm seeing.  That's all I'm saying.

As for whether or not I agree with the cops or not, I just don't know enough about realistic crowd control to understand what their reasoning might be, but no, I'm not a fan of cops manhandling people like that in general, and I'm not blind to the fact that some cops are little more than bullies with badges who are way too comfortable with misusing their authority.

158 OK, I'm wrong. I saw the sword.

That's no more freedom of speech than the the New Black Panther thug with the night stick was.

Icus, I apologize.

You want to exercise pure political speech, walk through there with your McCain-Palin t-shirt, ok.

And the crowd didn't look like they would have done much more than some serious booing.

Which is their right, also.

But walking through with a sword sticking up out the back of your shirt? That's an entirely different dynamic.

159 Hey icus have they gotten a campaign contribution total for O- bama from Hamasistan? It's a pity Obama's team can't figure out how to use a sort button on their small donation's list. Thought they were gods of technology.

160 Drew, I don't know whether the sword is important, and had it not been edited out I wouldn't even mention it.  However, it seems clear that the person who edited it out thinks it's important, and that edit is so deliberately misleading that it makes me suspicious about what I'm seeing.  That's all I'm saying.

Kensington,

You're still not making any sense to me. Who cares if the person who did the edit thinks it's important? You can see the unedited version for yourself, it doesn't matter if someone else thinks it's important.

But putting that and even the police actions aside, it's still fucking creepy that people are cheering and celebrating someone getting arrested for wearing a shirt in support of a candidate they don't like.

161

Behold the power of a fully operational Internet! Saw the whole video twice.

I'm going to have to back up on this. It does look like the guy decided he was going to go all into Jackie Chan mode and the cops obviously didn't have time for idiots. Probably saved his life. I don't know if it was a setup with the camera man or not, but there was a song back in the day that said believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. And if Ace have the entire clip it would have been good manners to post it.

On. The. Other. Hand. The first half of the full clip looked like a Hugo Chavez rally going down right here in the USA. I still stand behind what I said about Obama and his crowds. Dissent still will not be tolerated and the threat of mob violence will be used to crack down on all kinds of public displays. Just the same, when we rear up against him we better be firmly correct and in control.

162 You're still not making any sense to me. Who cares if the person who did the edit thinks it's important? You can see the unedited version for yourself, it doesn't matter if someone else thinks it's important.

Yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying now, so let me adjust my answer accordingly.  The first time I saw the video, it was the unedited version with the sword.  When I saw the sword, I couldn't help wondering what the Hell he was doing with the sword, and, for me, it undermined the idea that he was strictly innocent.  I can't help but wonder if there's more incriminating footage that has also been removed the way that the sword was removed from the version that's posted here.

"But putting that and even the police actions aside, it's still fucking creepy that people are cheering and celebrating someone getting arrested for wearing a shirt in support of a candidate they don't like."

Absolutely.  The Obama mob mentality is disgusting, and frankly, I have a hard time acknowledging the decency of anyone who would act like that, even in a crowd (which we all know can bring out ugliness in people).  I despair that there is such craven stupidity to be found amongst our citizenry.

163 Wouldn't the cops have done exactly the same thing with a drunk asshole wearing a Rays jersey in the middle of a Phillies victory celebration?  It was pretty obvious he was there to start some shit.  For as vicious as the crowd sounded, it didn't look like anyone had taken any punches at the guy... yet.

164 I added that to my blog as well and somebody answered with another video showing a couple of things not seen in this one here.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=vynzd9cpQRQ

e.g. a toy knife in the back of his shirt (which somebody stole anyway). They one who replied also said the guy wasn't arrested for wearing a McCain/Palin tee shirt, but because he didn't leave when the police told him to. I'm very protective of free speech, but I'm willing to give the cops the benefit of the doubt that they were just trying to "taxi" him to safety (as someone above said).

So then why did they have to rough him up? Why arrest him? Why put handcuffs on him? Aside from that, to me it seems like an encouragement to Obamabot types to simply keep whipping themselves into frenzies in order to push police to arrest peaceful demonstrators. Like a small child who learns the lesson that the more he screams the easier it will be for mom to give in and just buy him the damn candy.

This is absurd and frightening. Mob mentality dictating the actions of the police. So it becomes a matter of submit or hide your opinions. Thanks, Obama, you bastard. And thanks, fucking "52," for the "unity."

165

But putting that and even the police actions aside, it's still fucking creepy that people are cheering and celebrating someone getting arrested for wearing a shirt in support of a candidate they don't like.

As a Philadelphia native, I am impressed that cheering his arrest is the worse these people did. Seriously.

I understand that THEIR reaction and the question of the police reaction are two different issues...but it's hard to ignore two obvious points:

1. This guy would have eventually gotten beaten.

2. If the situation were reversed....McCain won and an Obama supporter was led away in handcuffs...those same people would have been pelting those officers with whatever they could get their hands on.

166 I'm really struck by the idiots in particular who just stand there and scream "Barack Obama!" into the nearest cameras.  I keep trying to imagine if I could have done anything similar had McCain won.   Would I have left the bar in 5th Avenue, gone out on the Manhattan street and just screamed "John McCain!" into somebody's camera?

Of course not.  I'm an adult, and John McCain was merely the best we could do to stop Barack Obama under the circumstances.  I would have been pleased, but there would be no reason to discard decorum.

Would I have done it for Sarah Palin or Ronald Reagan?  Still no.  It's just a fucking election.

167 I should add a quick "sorry if I repeated anything." I didn't have time to read all the comments.

168 There are too many freaking TROLLS on this thread.
The Philthy-delphissian coppers did NOT do their job. They should protect this guy from the Obozo mob. It's the right of peaceful assembly guaranteed by our Constitution, at least it used to be so. I would SUE this dimocrat city for everything I could get. I would press charges against these cops for false arrest.

Imagine if the shoe were on the other foot. If this were a Obozo t-shirt wearing person at a McCain/Palin celebration. Give it a little thought and get back to me, TROLLS!

169 I think I would give a pass to the cops as they are just dealing with the hand they were dealt.

The real point is would anyone be in danger in the midst of a crowd of conservatives wearing an Obama shirt? They might get a stern lecture on what an idiot they are, but a real threat of violence? No.

I think this is political intimidation and it has been going on for a long time. We have become used to the violence of the leftists and so we give them a pass when they do it.

170 "Would I have done it for Sarah Palin or Ronald Reagan? Still no. It's just a fucking election."

True, but personally, I think I'd have let loose with a few Sarah "whooops" if she'd been on the top of the ticket, and won.

And, when you think about it, why should it be surprising that you can find a drunken crowd whooping up an election result? Hell, people torch cars after a NBA championship, and that's a lot less important than an election.

171 And, when you think about it, why should it be surprising that you can find a drunken crowd whooping up an election result? Hell, people torch cars after a NBA championship, and that's a lot less important than an election.

Posted by: notropis at November 09, 2008 05:46 PM (8vxHo)

Not surprising, but remarkably stupid.

172 Poor bastard.  He probably got all inspired reading all the 52 to 48 love letters went to the rally to share the love.  Oh well.  After he gets released maybe he can use his mug shot and post a note of his own.  Maybe with a question on his little piece of paper asking about what he has permission to wear and what public streets he's allowed to walk in O's new Americollective. 

173 What a loser - I thought now that the election is over we don't have to pretend that we really wanted McCain to be President ?

174 Would I have done it for Sarah Palin or Ronald Reagan? Still no. It's just a fucking election."

True, but personally, I think I'd have let loose with a few Sarah "whooops" if she'd been on the top of the ticket, and won.

mmmm..... Sarah... on top..

Oh, of the ticket. Never mind.

175

OK, I'll bite:  when was the last time a bunch of political conservatives "celebrating" the election of their guy went all mob rule and threatening to kill a dissenter in their midst?

Date. time, outcome, please....

Walking down a Mississippi street carrying an MLK portrait or placard won't even get you noticed these days, so I call bullshit on comparisons to Confederate flags.

52The PPD say that he was arrested, so, that ambiguity is resolved. They may drop the charges in light of the publicity, but this is still scary.

Then they didn't have probable cause to arrest the guy?

I hope he sues the city.

176

Vic at November 09, 2008 04:58 PM

So, you are a truther-type; with a rude, but limited vocab.

Off with you lad.

I hope this helps.

177 "threatening to kill a dissenter in their midst?"

Maybe you got a clearer audio than I did, but I didn't make out any threats to kill this guy, just a lot of cheering when the police hauled him away.

178 118

Let us supposed that a stupid liberal came out with his Che T-Shirt and strolled through a crowd of drunken rangers who were celebrating their return from hostile territory and attempted to get in their face.

 

Do you have a fucking working synapse?    The Philly guys weren't a uniformed armed force like the Rangers returning from a mission, they were revellers!!

 

Besides, Rangers have a whole lot more discipline than a bunch of Colt-45 swillin' street toughs.

 

 

179 Was the guy walking "point" or "drag"?

180 And while we're piling on the guy now, Jim Bowie was the only man certified to bring a knife to a gunfight.

181

Even with the whole story or part of it, one thing is absolutely true and is the most significant part of it...

Had the sitution been reversed and it was an Obama t-shirt, the crowd would have been arrested and charged with multiple hate crimes, and the MSM would tell you all about how very much they deserved it.

And that would be with or without the plastic sword -- which the guy probably brought as "protection" to scare people if things got out of hand.  Stupid, but you've never heard of anyone carrying a fake weapon for such a reason?

182

I suggest that all you fuck-sticks who are accusing people of being trolls go somewhere and actually look up the definition of the word. Not everyone who disagrees with your obvious deranged ideas is a troll.

 

But in any case, I learned a long time ago that there is no point in hanging around arguing logic with retards who can’t use rational thought so I will abandon this thread. It really has no fucking point anyway.

183 It's easy to see why Philly is a murder ridden scum hole. With cops like that who needs enemies.

184

Except conservatives aren't known for acting like mindless frenzied animals.  They'd probably feel sorry for the poor, obviously brain dead, lost Obama follower and offer him directions to  . . . wherever.

This guy makes me think of those kids who teased the tigers at the zoo a while back.

185 Well, at least the guy didn't pee on anyone.  Just "weilded" his plastic toy sword.  Scary guy!!

186 It doesn't appear to me that he was arrested because he was causing any trouble. It appears to me that he was arrested because the Obama crowd would have started some trouble.

Gee, that's just great. A person can get arrested because somebody else will cause trouble if they don't like what you are wearing.

I figured it would take at least a few months after Obama actually became PRESIDENT before that happened.

187 The Obamacowards are lucky they were operating in a city with gun control.  Had any of these parasites tried to attack me, I would have killed them.  And that goes for icus and other trolls like him as well.  As one of your own said, you are not human to me.

188 Ken, the only people doing any attacking were the cops. And if you're thinking of drawing down on cops, well, good luck with that.

189 and next thing you know, Philadelphia's burned to the ground

And this is bad...how?

190

This kinda shit makes me really glad to live in the south.

Back in spring of 05 when I still lived in Atlanta there was an anti-war protest that we (protest warrior) went out to counter protest. There were only maybe 10 of us and a couple thousand of them, but I was never really worried about our safety even when we got in "disagreements" with the protestors. While I hate my fellow southerner's progressive politics, I appreciate their class about handling it.

191

"A McCain/Palin tshirt could easily be the spark that sets of the explosion, and next thing you know, Philadelphia's burned to the ground." Thanks Obama!

So this is the new kinda of world we live in now. This is the change that he promised. Censorship, fear, repression, cohersion, and intimidation. Wow!! I wonder when the Conservative Book burning event will take place? Welcome to the United Socialist States of America!   

192 It's still fucking creepy that people are cheering and celebrating someone getting arrested for wearing a shirt in support of a candidate they don't like.
This pretty much sums it up for me. I have also now watched the longer version, and I'm no less appalled. The guy did not appear unruly, disorderly, or drunk for that matter. Just the notion of being asked to leave because you're wearing your policital preference on your shirt. I thought the kid was extraordinarily polite to the officers. Oh, and just how much of this would we see if the reverse were true, if the kid had worn an Obama shirt and Mc/P had won=freaking non-stop MSM /ACLU/Jessie Jackson/etc. Even if it was all a stunt, or staged...the point is that we should be very worried about our freedoms.

193 regarding this issue I will just take the couragous stand and vote "present."

194 Notice how the sword, when removed, goes back and to the left...back and to the left...back and to the left?

195 Feel the hope and change. Ugh.

196

I definately want other Conservative bloggers to see this. Does anyone know how to paste a youtube video on a blog???? Please provide me with simple instructions. That would be greatly appreciated! 

197 So.  A gal decides to make a political statement after a couple of beers and walks into a Brooklyn  muslim "no-go" zone(coming to a theatre near you...) unveiled at the end of Ramadan.

She gathers the attention of a crowd of jubilant men (who just finished firing their AK-47's off in celebration).  They surround her, still jubilant but begin to turn ugly, calling her "whore!" "cover yourself, slut!" "We rule now!".  The police are called and show up.  They ask her to leave, she says she is exercising her freedom of speech, "this is still America, I am exercising my 1st amendment rights! I will not wear the veil!" and refuses to leave. They slam her upside the head, cuff and arrest her.

Yes, she is about to be stoned to death.  Yes she she was saved by the police.  Yes her first amendment rights were violated- but she will never protest again. And she will wear the veil when in a Muslim neighborhood forevermore.  Mission accomplished.

No, this is not the America I once knew.

198 I'm not ready to fall on my plastic sword over this.

199 Points for balls: wearing a McCain/Palin shirt in the middle of the Obama victory celebration in downtown Philly. As someone has already pointed out, those cops probably saved his life. Do I agree with the gesture? No. A provocation should be planned for maximum effect and exposure, and one inarticulate kid in a teeshirt handcuffed and led away is a good idea wasted. Now, if 50 or so McCain/Palin supporters in teeshirts had walked as a phalanx down that street, along with cameras and prior local news notification, that would be worthwhile. One extended shot of one little old lady shouting, 'Sarah! Sarah!' as she's roughed up and thrown into the back of a police van would just about do it, I think.

200 Change. Indeed!

I remember once being the lone (as far as I could tell) pro-Iraq war supporter in a 2-3000 strong (as in weak) Canadian appeasement protest in 2003. Canadian appeasement protesters are about the biggest bunch of pussies you'll ever find so that didn't take a whole lot of courage. And the police that were there didn't get in my way nor their way so long as it was all nonviolent.

Which it was. Nonviolent, Pro-PLO and Hamas with socialist Canadian and Provincial Legislators supporting these terrorist groups, and profoundly stupid. But I digress.

This guy, however, went up against Obama-cult fascists, and that takes more guts. Further, he went up against your now increasingly fascist police forces (although I don't blame Obama for that: You guys started militizing them years ago) and got jailed... for wearing a T-shirt.

That guy was a gazillion times calmer than I was (you'll believe me, no doubt, noting the tone of some of my comments! )... and he was placed under arrest.

Unreal.

There may be apologies for this incident in the coming days, but there will be more incidents. Oh, and by the way: Obama ≠ Carter. On a danger factor, Obama ≥ Carter.

It's a sad day when, Human Rights Tribunals aside (and now largely marginalized by the wonderful work of Ezra Levant and Co.), we have more freedom to protest peacefully than you do. Yet that day is fast approaching. I don't say this in a gloating way... rather, with extreme trepidation.

201 We are very concerned about the rights of US citizens. It's the left that has its priorities screwed up in those areas.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 09, 2008 05:17 PM (hlYel)

So you're on record protesting the detention of Jose Padilla and Yassir Hamdi, US citizens, for months without any process or access to a lawyer?  Puleeze.

You're on record complaining about the recent reports of the NSA monitoring the phone calls of US military and civilian workers in Iraq and Afghanistan and passing around phone sex tapes when they called their spouses?   (I hope we entertained them)

This was a minor incident caused by a probably mentally ill person who carried a replica samurai sword into a crowd.  It does not present a danger of fascism.  Imprisonment without process and monitoring of all electronic communications do.

202 The guy is an idiot - the police did him a favor.

He needed to get to his car? what? and drive home drunk? While his buddy films this innocent stroll across Obama Square? Yeah, right.

If he had half a wit, which its obvious he doesn't, he should have turned his shirt inside out and safely waded through the crowd. But no, he had to make a freaking spectacle of himself.

And Ace hypes this bullshit?

Since when are conservatives so easily suckered into stupid causes? This borders on ODS.

203 Is this the thread where leftists like me can proclaim their affinity for sucking huge quantities of cock?

204 wow icus you are really trying hard, maybe we will spare you during the revolution

205 Derak,

What video were you watching? I totally missed the hot drunk unveiled chick, as well as the stone-wielding muslims. I didn't even see stone-wielding anybody. There were lots and lots of scary-happy brown people, screaming and yelling like they'd just won the World Series, though.

In fact, the only semi-violent people I saw were the cops, but I think the whole thing was in Philly, not Brooklyn.

Oh, well, I'll watch it again.

206 Look, the sword is obviously irrelevant.  For it to be relevant, someone would have to believe that bringing an obviously fake plastic sword to a mob stomping was worth something in terms of street cred or scare factor.  Its not.  Its even dumber than bringing a knife to a gunfight.  Its about as useful as a screen door in a submarine.  The scare factor would last about 10 nanoseconds, then the crowd would stomp you into raspberry jam while laughing maniacally and shoving the sword up your ass repeatedly.

207 I wonder if the liberal trolls ever get tired of polishing turds.

208 Liberal trolls never get tired of polishing turds, but they do perform a great service by only picking up the turd from the clean end.  That's liberalism in a nutshell. 

209 PA,

I obviously disagree. The sword strongly suggests that there's a lot more to the story than just a brave guy exercising his 1st Amendment rights. You'll notice that even in the extended version, nothing leading up to the arrival of the cops is shown.

When we first meet "plastic sword sticking out of the back of the shirt and half way up his head" guy, the cops are already there, telling him to quietly leave the area. And they're very aware of the plastic sword.

If, as you say, and I agree, the obviously fake sword brings no street cred nor scare factor, then why is he wearing it? Does he have a right to? Perhaps. 

I'd suggest the case law regarding carrying semi-concealed fake weapons into large crowds is neither non-existent, nor cut-and-dried. And I'd have to believe that the police would be allowed to exercise a good deal of judgement in dealing with the situation, over against the situation were he simply wandering innocently along the street in a McCain-Palin t-shirt.

210 hope and change

211 If, as you say, and I agree, the obviously fake sword brings no street cred nor scare factor, then why is he wearing it?

The guy is plainly nuts.  But even loons have constitutional rights.

212 Posted by: icus at November 09, 2008 07:07 PM (ns9RC)

As a matter of fact, I agreed with Scalia in Hamdi.


You're on record complaining about the recent reports of the NSA monitoring the phone calls of US military and civilian workers in Iraq and Afghanistan and passing around phone sex tapes when they called their spouses?

Fire the people who did that but let's not pretend that was what the debate was about. Democrats fought to require intelligence agencies to get warrants to monitor communications between terrorists outside of the US simply because the servers they were routed through we based in the US. That's putting the 'rights' of terrorists ahead of Americans and it was exactly what the FISA fight was about.

213 That's bullshit. Try walking around any town/city at night while drunk and wielding a plastic sword. The cops would be negligent to allow that to happen.

Now add a ready-mix bag of riot to scenario.

Yeah that don't fly.

214 [Icus, I'm deleting your post for your own protection. It might incite the commenters.] -Trollbuster Agent 5

215 Next time the brownshirts will handle it. 

216
Unless this guy had just won this sword as a door prize at some party and was simply on his way back to his car, he was a moron and looking for trouble. The stupid little sword was tiny and harmless, but completely inappropriate to take into that crowd. And he wasn't particularly cooperative with the police, which is always foolish and obstructionist when they're stressed out with crowd control.

I think it's important to underline the First Amendment aspects of the situation, so as to draw a useful reminder for future incidents, but I don't think the First Amendment exonerates this fellow.

217 I'm not sure that either loons nor sane people have a Constitutional right to carry a semi-concealed fake weapon into large crowd. From 30 feet away, someone says, "Jeezus, look out, the guy's got a sword!" And "self-defense" ensues.

It's an entirely different dynamic than peacefully walking through the crowd with a McCain-Palin t-shirt, and the cops most likely have every right to take that difference into account, which they did.

FWIW, from the clips of the crowds, I wouldn't have felt the slightest intimidation walking through with a McCain-Palin shirt on. I'd expect, and no doubt receive, quite a bit of x-rated heckling -- but that's free speech. And I don't think the cops would even have noticed me. I'd be a lot more worried about getting my wallet jacked late night in Philly in a big crowd (regardless of what shirt I was wearing.)

I guess we'll find out over the next months and years, won't we?

218 Oh no, a plastic sword! Personally, I'd be more afraid of a good old fashioned umbrella.

Someone help me out, Chicago and Philly are the most corrupt cities in the nation, but which takes the title?

219 [Icus, I'm deleting your post for your own protection. It might incite the commenters.] -Trollbuster Agent 5

220 Look, even in Canada you can have a plastic sword.

Hell, at the anti-war rally I talked about they had a paper mache tank. Somehow it didn't frighten me (although I think it was supposed to make me hate Bush or something, and on that score, EPIC FAIL).

221 are true only if the person "bringing an obviously fake plastic sword to a mob" is not mentally ill.

Last time I checked, the constitution didn't exclude the mentally ill. 

222 "Try walking around any town/city at night while drunk and wielding a plastic sword."

13times, if that's the case, Halloween must really suck ass in your city.

223 We may still have Kerry/Edwards stickers on our car from 4 years ago, but if any of you display anything with McCain/Palin, we will pummel you (or have the police arrest you).

xxxx .... 52 to 48

224 He must have been arrested under some legal authority, otherwise obviously there is a problem.

To me it's very simple: Was he arrested under his state's mental health legislation as a danger to himself? Yes or no.

If he wasn't arrested for being a danger to himself (and being a danger to others with a plastic sword when he's outnumbered by 1000s to 1 is a stretch), then he was arrested for the McCain-Palin T-shirt. And the cops should be disciplined and the jurisdiction sued for wrongful arrest and violation of the man's constitutional rights under your 1st Amendment.

Period.

225 "Halloween must really suck ass in your city."

Christoph, on Halloween, there's an inherent expectation of such, and police (and bartenders and whatnot) behave accordingly.

Back when I tended bar for many years, I thought nothing of someone wearing a pirate costume and wielding a fake sword, staggering into the bar on Halloween. Had they done it on election night, my reaction (and that of the cops I called) would be markedly different.

226 but completely inappropriate to take into that crowd.

"Inappropriate" != illegal.  There's lots of things social mores normally dictate against that aren't illegal.  What this guy did is no worse than what PETA loons do when protesting outside a McDonalds dressed only in body paint.

People have a right to be stupid.

227 Fire doesn't melt plastic!  Google it!

228 I'll drop this one one last time, and maybe one of the actual lawyers around here will find it and comment.

(Gabe? Ace? Nom de Blog? .... )

"I'd suggest the case law regarding carrying semi-concealed fake weapons into large crowds is neither non-existent, nor cut-and-dried. And I'd have to believe that the police would be allowed to exercise a good deal of judgement in dealing with the situation, over against the situation were he simply wandering innocently along the street in a McCain-Palin t-shirt."

229 There seems to be a couple of questions.

Why did the police arrest him?

Why did he decide to stroll through a volatile crowd with a McCain/Palin shirt on?

Why if this was not preplanned was there a video guy following him around making comments about the police state?

Best guest, this was simply a maneuver to get attention and in the same spirit that lefties protest. I'm afraid I will have to side with law enforcement on this one, he wasn't trying to protest from afar. He was actively trying to stroll through a crowd of hostile Obama supporters, and could have caused a lot of destruction if things had gone south.

230 "Fire doesn't melt plastic! Google it!"

Actually, fire does, but not jet-fuel-fueled fire. It's quite possible that one of the drunken revelers might have puked up some Everclear, then lit a blunt, and the guy's back would have melted like a GI Joe doll.

If you don't believe me, as you say, Google it!

231 The excuse that he was removed for his "own good" is a basic piece of socialist nanny state policy.The state knows better what's good for you than you do.

232 The sword was stupid.

Makes me wonder though. In my state I have a license to carry and the law doesnt require it to be concealed. So, if on election night I walked around outside with a mccain/palin shirt and legally open carrying on public property...

eh, I'm not stupid, I've only got one extra mag, so only 21 rounds and .45 self defense rounds arent cheap.

233 "Why did he decide to stroll through a volatile crowd with a McCain/Palin shirt on?"

Sorry, Orator, but that one doesn't matter in the least. That is, absolutely, a Constitutionally-guaranteed right, and it ain't nobody's business but his own.

Why'd he have a (fake) sword stuffed down his back? That's a different question entirely.

234 I see the point of an analogy is lost on you, notropis.
 Acquiesce or die. 

I'll go put my Obamessiah t-shirt on now, esp when in Philly.

235 Mark, honest question:

You've obviously been through the training. Are there situations where you're required to defer to police judgement in your right to carry?

For example, can the Secret Service stop you and say, "Buddy, you're too close to Candidate X with that sidearm?"

Or can the police stop you and say, "Buddy, there's a situation up ahead. Either stow the firearm or go back?"

236 I'm afraid I will have to side with law enforcement on this one, he wasn't trying to protest from afar.

Unless the mob had a parade permit or something else allowing them temporary exclusive access to the street, streets are public access.  

237 Derak,

Obviously, I was simply ridiculing your analogy.

Where's your evidence of the ill-intent of the Obama-supporting crowd? Beyond, that is, the fact that they support Obama?

238 can the Secret Service stop you and say, "Buddy, you're too close to Candidate X with that sidearm?"

They have statutory authority to detain you if they think you might be a threat. 

239 Where's your evidence of the ill-intent of the Obama-supporting crowd? Beyond, that is, the fact that they support Obama? Posted by: notropis

If the police were not concerned about an 'ill-intent' on the part of the Obamabots then why was the guy arrested/taken away?

The police were afraid of a riot, assault, or murder.

240 As a tip to notropis and at the risk of wasting my time on PA sophistry, this is Pennsylvania's disorderly conduct statute:  http://tinyurl.com/69u82s

A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:

 (1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; 
 (2) makes unreasonable noise; 
 (3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or 
 (4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.
Here is another possibly applicable statute:

  § 5508. Disrupting meetings and processions 
A person commits a misdemeanor of the third degree if, with intent to prevent or disrupt a lawful meeting, procession or gathering, he disturbs or interrupts it.

http://tinyurl.com/6xjym3

The Philly cops made the right judgment.  Seeing this clown carrying around a replica weapon which reasonable people could judge to be a deadly weapon from a distance and otherwise being "tumultous," they removed him from the scene.  He spent an hour in the police station, and will pay a fine, unless he has a more extensive record of shit stirring and criminality.

241 So, if McCain won, anyone wearing an Obama shirt would have been hustled out of a McCain rally because they were endangering themselves.

And no one would have a word to say.

Right?

242 Okay, just saw the part about the drunkeness and the fake sword.

243 (2) makes unreasonable noise; 
 (3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or

Sweet.  We should be able to shut down almost all left wing parades and protests based on these two alone.

Hey, if that plastic sword was such a concern, why did the police not remove it?  If they thought it was a weapon, obviously they would have disarmed him instead of allowing him to continue talking to them.

And if they thought it was an incitement, they could have confiscated it and sent him on his way, no?

244
"Inappropriate" != illegal.

"Inappropriate" = Disturbing the peace.

245 Thanks, icus.

I suppose I could have googled it, myself, instead of just waiting around for someone else to, and repeatedly posting my same ignorant guesses.

Anyway, it ended up pretty much the way I guessed it.

But don't get me wrong. Obama and the Democrats are still douchenozzles. (Although that's now "President Douchnozzle....")

246 That "replica weapon" was just so scary that they allowed him to keep possession of it, right?

That's pretty much SOP. Let the guy with the weapon keep it while you shoot the breeze with him for awhile.

247 Also, while I think it is really funny to delete Icus's messages in this thread because he's obviously inciting danger to himself, he's not a troll and hope that's not an actual ban him..

248

Icus, do you post as editor?

249 Warden, they relieved him of it before they cuffed him.

250 "On. The. Other. Hand. The first half of the full clip looked like a Hugo Chavez rally going down right here in the USA."

I was really bothered by the crowd's screaming. They did not sound sane.

251 notropis,

Looked like someone in the crowd took it.

Even if it were a cop, the fact that they didn't tackle the guy and remove it immediately is evidence that it was a concern.

252 was wasn't a concern

253
And if they thought it was an incitement, they could have confiscated it and sent him on his way, no?

They didn't cuff him until he seemed uncooperative. They were trying to send him on his way without confiscating anything.

254
I was really bothered by the crowd's screaming. They did not sound sane.

That is very true. We talk about the unhinged liberal, but rarely do you actually see that many of them in full plumage.

Crikey!!

255 They were trying to send him on his way without confiscating anything

Then you can't argue that the plastic sword was a reason to arrest him.

256 [quote]That's bullshit. Try walking around any town/city at night while drunk and wielding a plastic sword. The cops would be negligent to allow that to happen.

Now add a ready-mix bag of riot to scenario.

Yeah that don't fly.

Posted by: 13times at November 09, 2008 07:36 PM [/quote]

Explain Mardi-gras.

257 If the police thought that plastic sword was dangerous, then would have immediately taken the guy down, not talked to him before slapping on the cuffs.

258
Then you can't argue that the plastic sword was a reason to arrest him.

No, the plastic sword was the reason they tried to get him to leave. His attitude is what got him arrested.

259 No, the plastic sword was the reason they tried to get him to leave. His attitude is what got him arrested.

Once the sword had been taken away, why would he be required to leave?

260 If the sword is the threat or incitement (and we've already established that the police didn't view it as a serious threat), then removing the sword and sending him on his way is the appropriate action.

261 Hey, if that plastic sword was such a concern, why did the police not remove it?  If they thought it was a weapon, obviously they would have disarmed him instead of allowing him to continue talking to them.

And if they thought it was an incitement, they could have confiscated it and sent him on his way, no?

Did you watch the full video, or just the agitprop "Ace" version?  They did remove it.  And Mr. Fuckwad belligerently protested about how they were taking his property.  Then he turned around and belligerently got in a cop's face, likely breathing his booze over the cop.

Funny how you can second guess the acts of cops not only without having been there, but in the face of video evidence.

You're as bad as leftys who prattle on about 9/11 truth.  I can't stand ideologues who can't fucking see things in front of them.

262
then removing the sword and sending him on his way is the appropriate action.

If you listen to the police, they tell him to go. He protests, and they tell him again. He says he's going to his car, and then they say, "Just cuff him." Or something like that.

That's why I say it was his attitude that sent him to the pokey.

263
I can't stand ideologues who can't fucking see things in front of them.

Avoid mirrors.

264
They did remove it.

The annotation on the video says that someone from the crowd stole it.

265 thats a good name for Obama - the King of Prattle

266 Then he turned around and belligerently got in a cop's face

In his face?  He didn't appear to be at all aggressive.

, likely breathing his booze over the cop.

Supposition.  Fail.

Funny how you can second guess the acts of cops not only without having been there, but in the face of video evidence.

Funny how you can defend them without having been there, so I guess its a draw, huh chief?

You're as bad as leftys who prattle on about 9/11 truth. 

Sure, I am. Fuckin troll.  Dude....you spend your time trolling blogs. Mediate on that, idiot.

I can't stand ideologues who can't fucking see things in front of them.

You're free to look me up and exercise your anger.

267 If you listen to the police, they tell him to go. He protests, and they tell him again.

Geoff,

You're missing my point.  If he was stopped for having the plastic sword, there's no reason to tell him to leave once they've taken it. He has every right to walk down a street in a McCain Palin t-shirt.

Maybe they stopped him for something we didn't see on camera. Maybe they had a good reason. But everyone here seems to be arguing that the plastic sword was some sort of incitement. Well, once they've taken it, he should be free to go on his way.

268
If he was stopped for having the plastic sword, there's no reason to tell him to leave once they've taken it.

I don't think they took it - someone from the crowd stole it. I think they took the fact that this guy wanted to take his toy sword and his M/P t-shirt into that crowd as a sign of a troublemaker. They tried to send him on his way without any fuss, but he wasn't cooperative.

That pretty much pegged him as a troublemaker.

269 You know, the silver lining in all of this is that it's given icus something to do for the rest of the night.

Other than dry humping his futon, I mean.

270

They must have taken him in to protective custody.  He's now living in Santa Fe under a new identity.

271

Funny how you can defend them without having been there, so I guess its a draw, huh chief?

Not quite.  I have the video.  Not the edited agitprop "Ace" version, but the full truther, anti-NWO/Bilderberg version.

It really is funny, why don't you, Ace, and the rest of the morons just come out and call the Philly cops "fascist pigs," huh Warden?

 

272

I don't think they took it - someone from the crowd stole it. I think they took the fact that this guy wanted to take his toy sword and his M/P t-shirt into that crowd as a sign of a troublemaker. They tried to send him on his way without any fuss, but he wasn't cooperative.

That pretty much pegged him as a troublemaker

1) If the plastic sword had been an issue, they would not have told him to just go on his merry way.

2) He had evey right in the world to be there.

It's justleft-wing thuggishness...plain and simple.

I bought two more guns today. I suggest you all look into doing the same

 

273 That pretty much pegged him as a troublemaker.

I guess we disagree on the amount of evidence you need before pegging someone as a troublemaker and stifling their freedom of speech.

The guy's probably a dick, but I don't think that should be enough to get you cuffed.

Anyway, this has run its course, so I'm out.

274 Not quite.  I have the video.

Duh.  I've seen it, too, pinhead.  The URL was pasted in the comments.

why don't you, Ace, and the rest of the morons just come out and call the Philly cops "fascist pigs,"

I'll leave that kind of stuff to all you lefties and your good buddy John Murtha.

275
I do think the Philly police department should issue a clear explanation that delineates the reasons for his arrest. They should make it very clear that it did not constitute (heh) a violation of his 1st Amendment Rights. That way, going forward, we have jerks kept in line and the Bill of Rights fortified.

If they can't make that argument in a credible way, then we should descend upon them like locusts.

<i>Other than dry humping his futon, I mean.</i>

I suspect his futon no longer qualifies for "dry" humping.

276 'Nite all.

277

You know, the silver lining in all of this is that it's given icus something to do for the rest of the night.

Other than dry humping his futon, I mean.

Of course, you are right here with me, my fellow loser Warden.  Nah, I'm having a glass of Leffe and watching NGC on the Vietnam War with my laptop here. It's too early to do any humping. 

278

It really is funny, why don't you, Ace, and the rest of the morons just come out and call the Philly cops "fascist pigs," huh Warden?

OK..I'll step up. Philly cops are libero-fascist pigs

...as are the sheriff and prosecuters in St. Louis

...as is the SoS of Ohio Jennifer Brunner

...as is Helen Jones-Kelly Director of Ohio Social Services who dug into Joe the Plumber's personal file and fed the info to the Obama camapaign..

...as is Obama who threatened TV satations who aired ads critical of hime

etc.

 

 

279

That's why I say it was his attitude that sent him to the pokey.

My Dad is a retired cop and more than once I heard him talk about the reason some guy was being detained was he "flunked the attitude inspection" but damned if I could ever find on the books the law against having a bad attitude.

280
but damned if I could ever find on the books the law against having a bad attitude.

It's preemptive detention.

281 The bottom line is that a McCain-Palin t-shirt is an obvious and unequivocally Constitutionally protected form of free speech.

A (real or plastic) sword is not.

So, when people ask, "Why does the sword matter?"

That's why.

Suddenly, this episode passes from a question of "here's the future of our basic Rights," to one of "best practices of the Philadelphia police department."

While we're all competent to comment on the first, I suggest that few if any of us are knowledgeable enough to weigh in on the second.

282 I dunno, this looked to me like the cops were trying to save this guy from himself and that mob.  The cop was covering the shirt with his own hands, and the guy seemed determined to go into the mob and get beaten up.

I have no doubt that down the road dissent will no longer "be the highest form of patritiotism" and that Obama will eventually have dissenters locked up. But this time I think the cops were just trying to get this jackass off the street before he got his head bashed in.

283 Icus wrote: "It's going to be entertaining watching you morons start complaing about communications spying and Patriot Act information requests and develop a strange new respect for the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments."

Wow...are you saying that Obama is going to abuse the patriot act in ways Bush never did (every investigation proved it) - are you saying that Obama is going to do all the things you accused Bush of doing?

I can't wait for you morons to tell us why his abuses are good things.


 

284 Posted by: notropis at November 09, 2008 09:16 PM (8vxHo)

Where exactly in that video do you get the idea that the 'sword' was why he was arrested?

285 #39 - I saw a story about a waitress who waited on 6 AA guys on election night - they wrote her "tip" down on the placemat, which she photo'd with her phone.  It said, "Your tip 4 tonight, the blacks are in the blackhouse, bitch!!!"

So...a kid serves six men, gets no tip.  Nice.

286 "Where exactly in that video do you get the idea that the 'sword' was why he was arrested?"

OK, I'll play.

Where exactly in that video do you get the idea that the t-shirt was why he was arrested?

287 Posted by: notropis at November 09, 2008 09:22 PM (8vxHo)

In other words you have no answer. Thanks for clearing that up.

288 Posted by: notropis at November 09, 2008 09:16 PM (8vxHo)

Where exactly in that video do you get the idea that the 'sword' was why he was arrested?


Posted by: DrewM.

Because if it wasn't the sword, the only other reason is embarrassing to Obamabots!

289 And neither do you.

Thanks for clearing that up, as well.

IOW, obviously there's not enough information on the video to actually judge the situation, is there?

290 Posted by: notropis at November 09, 2008 09:24 PM (8vxHo)

I'm simply asking you to back up your contention that the main issue is the plastic sword.

Is that so unfair?

291 No, it's not.

And I'm asking you to back up the contention (headline) of the thread, that the person was arrested for wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt.

Is that unfair?

292 Posted by: notropis at November 09, 2008 09:27 PM (8vxHo)

Does your line of argument generally stop at a childish version of "I know you are but what am I"?

If you answer my question I will happily address yours.

293 Well, actually, you have to answer my question first.

I'd like it to be other than that, but logic dictates that if a claim is made that "This guy was arrested only because he was wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt," and the evidence then shows that there were at least several other mitigating circumstances, the burden of proof is on someone who says, "No, it was just because of the t-shirt."

Since clearly, there was more going on than simply the guy innocently wearing a Mccain-Palin t-shirt (especially, but not exclusively the fact that he had a sword shoved down the back of his shirt and sticking halfway up his head), it really is your obligation to show that, really, the only thing the guy had going was the fact that he was wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt.

So, no, it's not childish to question the basic premise (headline) of a thread, and, whether or not you like it, the burden is yours to justify the alarms about the supposed erosion of Constitutional rights.

I, and others, presented a cogent case that this was not merely a situation of a person being arrested for exercising his Constitutionally protected freedoms, by pointing out extenuating circumstances.

Now, the burden is yours, to show that, in fact, those circumstances either A) didn't exist or B) don't matter.

294 I'm simply asking you to back up your contention that the main issue is the plastic sword.

Is that so unfair?

Posted by: DrewM. at November 09, 2008 09:25 PM (hlYel)

I'll take a shot.  Cops don't have the luxury of always parsing the meaning of expressive conduct, the rights to that conduct, and the possible result of that conduct like an appeals court.  Especially when they are dealing with thousands of people, many of them drunk.

You can argue that Shithead had a "right" to carry around a plastic samurai sword down the back of his t-shirt.  You may be "right" in some legalistic sense.

The fact remains that the plastic sword is a replica of a weapon, and thus signifies possible violent intent on the part of the bearer.  He is a large man. Carrying the plastic sword is bizarre behavior.  If the police are to be believed, he had been drinking.  So he's a drunk erratic guy who's put himself in a t-shirt and gone out with a plastic sword opposing what the thousands of people around him are celebrating. 

All during this time, the police are getting radio calls about other incidents around them - the pickpockets, purse snatchings, drunken fights and drug offenses that occur whenever there are large gatherings.

What do they do with the erraticly acting big guy carrying the plastic sword?  They took the sword and told him to leave.  He didn't.  Do they have to hang around for him to stir up shit, or do they preserve public order by removing him from the scene?

 

 

295 icus,

Watch the video again. If the cops were so worried about the 'sword' why did they let the guy keep it while debating with him? It seems to be standard police procedure to disarm someone right away and not chat with them if they are worried about the 'weapon'.

In fact you can see one of the cops clearly walk behind him and didn't do anything about the 'sword'. Only later was it removed. The video says it was an Obama supporter but I'm not sure that's true (I don't trust truthers much).

As for notropis, you are actually making icus look reasonable by comparison. Congrats. Who knew that was even possible?

296

 notropis at November 09, 2008 09:49 PM (8vxHo)

Nice job, notropis.  Your are absolutely right.

If you are expecting DrewM to admit he was wrong without calling you childish or some other shit, don't waste your time.

297 "As for notropis, you are actually making icus look reasonable by comparison. Congrats. Who knew that was even possible?"

Simple translation:

"You're right, notropis, I don't have the slightest shred of evidence that this guy was arrested for the message on his t-shirt, but, so what? We all know that that must be the reason, after all, he was wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt, and was surrounded by Obama supporters."

DrewM, I expect, and usually get, a lot better from you than this.

We'll try again on another topic.

298

icus,

Watch the video again. If the cops were so worried about the 'sword' why did they let the guy keep it while debating with him? It seems to be standard police procedure to disarm someone right away and not chat with them if they are worried about the 'weapon'.

In fact you can see one of the cops clearly walk behind him and didn't do anything about the 'sword'. Only later was it removed. The video says it was an Obama supporter but I'm not sure that's true (I don't trust truthers much)

The cops weren't worried about the plastic sword, they were worried about what the plastic sword indicated, bizarre behavior by an erratic (drunk, possibly mentally ill) guy out to cause problems - as someone commented he might "go Jackie Chan" in the crowd.

Have you ever lived in a large city?  Been in a huge urban crowd? 

299 notropis,

I simply asked you a question about the central element of your position (what makes you think the sword was relevant) and that obligates me to defend the headline of the thread?

Sorry but I don't think that's how a debate works.

300 Have you ever lived in a large city?  Been in a huge urban crowd?

Is New York City large enough to qualify?

The cops weren't worried about the plastic sword, they were worried about what the plastic sword indicated, bizarre behavior by an erratic (drunk, possibly mentally ill) guy out to cause problems - as someone commented he might "go Jackie Chan" in the crowd.

How do you know that? What basis is there in the video or what the cop said to WND that backs that up?

301

As for notropis, you are actually making icus look reasonable by comparison. Congrats. Who knew that was even possible?

No you didn't, Drew.  You did you usual bullshit when you lose an argument and try to demean the other person.

Don't try to pussy out.  You called a long time commenter less reasonable than a troll.  Take responsibility for your words for once.

302 I keep seeing posts comparing what he was doing to walking into Harlem wearing a white power tee shirt.

At exactly what point did supporting a political candidate who got over 40% of the vote in this election become synonymous with being a moron from stormfront?

Supporting McCain is, and let me be emphatic about this, NOT AN EXPRESSION OF RACISM AND IT IS NOT CAUSE FOR ANYONE TO ATTACK HIM.

The police did not "do him a favor," they violated his rights and falsely arrested him.  He was not doing anything wrong.  The police do not have dictatorial powers to order citizens around at their whim.

A free society is one in which it is safe to be unpopular.  Based upon what has happened here, I must conclude that the society of Obama supporters is NOT FREE.

303 I thought not.

304

How do you know that? What basis is there in the video or what the cop said to WND that backs that up?

 

I dunno, maybe the idea of an adult male carrying around a plastic samurai sword in a crowd indicates insanity or insobrieity to me.  Seriously.

But what do I know, I'm a troll who doesn't post heavily edited videos on my website to raise the rabble.

 

305 I don't know about this - MAYBE the cops were just trying to save this guy. He does have some really big kahunas that's for sure.  I see the crowd behind him - and maybe he was taunting them BEFORE this video was shot - WHO knows. One thing I do know is that the police MUST keep the peace and if he would've gotten hurt by the crowd it would be BETTER to remove him.
This is coming from a widow of a State Trooper -mind you.
Freedom of speech is GREAT - but I would fear for his life in that sort of situation. It's common sense. 
Also, did the cops just drive him TO HIS car so that he was safely taken there? Who knows. 
Anyway ... God bless the U.S.A.

306 What do you expect from Philly, they arrest Christians there for daring to condem homosexuality.

307

I'm a troll who doesn't post heavily edited videos on my website to raise the rabble.

Icus, don't be silly. No one would visit your website.

308 This isn't the first time something like this has happened in Philly. IIRC, back during the Clinotn years, an anti-Clinotn protester was physically beaten by union goons outside of where Clinton was appearing in town, in front of police, and nothing happened. The victim went to civil court and lost. Rendell even made a few jokes about, again IIRC. During the Republican Convention here in 2000, a mob cornered Newt Gingrich. Nothing physical, but it took a little while for the cops to rescue him. Visiting sports fans know full well what happens when you wear your colors at the Linc, the Bank, or the Wachovia. And on and on.

No, I'm not proud of any of this, but most locals will shrug and say "he should have known better". I didn't put my McCain sign in my front window because I didn't know what I would be coing home to...and I live in the only ward in Philly that McCain actually won (out of 57). It really is a shame, but it's reality.

 Knowing some Philly PD guys, they really hate paperwork, I'm guessing that they took the guy away from the crowd and let him go. Just a guess on my part, no evidence. Why give the Obamatards another reason to riot?

309 Clinotn? PIMF.

At least the Eagles are bringing the sports fans around here back to reality.

310 No matter the circumstances,..my corps. of inner city ambassadors will overcome! Honkies! http://tinyurl.com/6xllv4

311 Since clearly, there was more going on than simply the guy innocently wearing a Mccain-Palin t-shirt

Such as...?

Exactly what was "going on" here?  Do YOU see any evidence of illegal activity?  Because I sure don't.

(especially, but not exclusively the fact that he had a sword shoved down the back of his shirt and sticking halfway up his head),

I'm sorry, but are people actually still arguing about this?

It was a PLASTIC. TOY. SWORD.

That's your proof of illegal activity?  That's your arrestable offense?  Carrying a plastic toy sword in public?  He wasn't waving it around.  He wasn't trying to hit people with it.  He just had a little toy sword (looked about 5-10 inches long at the most) stuck in the back of his shirt.

Weird?  Maybe so.

Illegal?  Disruptive?  Dangerous?  Hardly.

it really is your obligation to show that, really, the only thing the guy had going was the fact that he was wearing a McCain-Palin t-shirt.

Um, no, that's your job.  You're the one who thinks there was "clearly" more going on here.  So where's your proof?

312

"Mobs murdering people is something the media would have trouble covering up."

 

They would minize it. 

313

Ps:

 

Minimize (Don't post early in the morning without coffee).

314

"And just like that, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism, but rather a jailable offense."

You forget.  Dissent against a Gay rally in Philladelphia is a jailable offense.

Persecution against Christians is permitted.

315 How appropriate that this happens today -



ON THE 60th ANNIVERSARY OF KRISTALLNACHT.



And so it goes......

316 Oh good Lord -

It's the 70th Anniversary of Kristallnacht.

I am half asleep.

317 "8 Wow, you can't go into a crowd and start talking shit and then act like a mouthy asshole to cops anymore if you're wearing a political t-shirt?  That is soooo totally different from what's been happening for years.

It's going to be entertaining watching you morons start complaing about communications spying and Patriot Act information requests and develop a strange new respect for the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments.
 

Posted by: icus at November 09, 2008 03:56 PM (ns9RC)"

Wow icus. It's a damned shame when the incoming regime and its sycophants has to put up with people who still think they have free speech rights in this country.  Just wait until Obama's Little Red Guards take to the streets to make sure there's no leftover McCain/Palin bumper stickers on cars. 

The only ones who hate the Patriot act so far, are domestic terrorists and assholes like you. Enjoy the next four years of the Socialist States of America. 

Miserable fucks like you will be chanting EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN OBAMA.  Just don't expect the rest of us to follow suit.

318 Republicans, the Party of Hate&trade;

319

@twinkie #318,

Yeah, it's only hate when the Republicans dissent, isn't it?

320 Was that crowd shouting "Obama" or "Barrabus"?

321 Guys, let's get more information before we start hailing the rise of the new police state. Selective editing can easily distort events beyond recognition and the source is highly questionable. Truthers are not known for their levelheaded and honest presentation of the facts.

Yes, that crowd is scary, but frankly it's no worse than the type of people who start marching through the streets and college campuses to celebrate/riot after big sports events. And the reaction of the police would probably be pretty much the same if it were a guy and a cameraman wandering into a fired-up crowd while wearing the logo of the other team.  The police, not being stupid or invulnerable, wanted to get him out of there before anyone got violent. It's not clear to me if he was actually arrested or just removed from the scene and set free (and, no, I'm not willing to take the guy's word for it.)

322 So Obama got elected - where's my money?  I need to pay my mortgage...

323

Shame he wasn't carrying a belt of wampum. He might've been granted free passage through the throng a la Daniel Day-Lewis in "Last Mohican."

The revelers may be wild, but they probably wouldn't attack a solemn paleface carrying a cowrie-shell belt. I mean, some things are just over the line.

324 This kind of thing has been coming for several years, been pretty common on campuses--free speech takes a back seat to mob rule, with authority backing the mob and suppressing the minority as the easiest way to "preserve the peace" that the mob (not the conservative/Jew/anti-affirmative action speaker) threatens to disturb.

Germany, 1933.  The crowd of Obama supporters could as easily have been singing Der Horst Wessel Lied or "Down with the Jew."

No, I'm not exaggerating.  Mobs are mobs... I'm not saying Obama was manipulating this the way Hitler did... BUT...

I hope I'm wrong, but the silence from the media and the Dems, incl. Obama, is truly deafening.

325

I don't enjoy agreeing with icus the anus, but it's right.

Guys, this drunken fool was trying to commit seppuku-by-mob. This is the Right's second lunatic, after Ashley Todd, to present herself or himself as an anti-Barack martyr. Sometime soon, one of these nutbars is going to succeed.

Ace, please edit the title of this post. It distresses me to watch our side's descent into madness.

326 So most of the Obama apologists on here say he was just arrested for his own safety - I'm sure that's exactly what the Berlin police told the Jews when they started rounding them up- "..it's just for your own safety."

327 His slurred speech tells me that he's drunk.  If this video had 'smell-o-vision' we could tell for sure, but that's my bet.  Just like someone else said - a drunk guy in a Rays jersey at the Phillies rally would get the same treatment.  Find something else to get mad at.

328 Romans 1:18-32.

329 Ezekiel 25:17

330 Whether or not the cops were justified in treating him so roughly, the crowd's behavior was atrocious and unmitigated. I have many memories of the cops surrounding anti-war protestors at a support-the-troops rally, even arresting someone who was too abusive verbally to the anti-Iraqi Freedom person. The crowd never was as hostile to the Saddam-lover as these punks are to a person wearing a T-shirt of a sitting US Senator who is a national hero.

331

I think they should have shot him for his safety.  Bullets in the brain will forever protect him from saying (or wearing) the wrong things and have the added benefit of not inciting mob violence. 

Let's just start a tradition like they have in Haiti, burn (or hang) the last president and cheer the next one for 18 months then burn him too. 

Fucking third world bullshit.  That's change I can believe in.

332 I understand how footage of a large crowd shouting at a single guy can look like the tyranny of the mob versus the individual, but this video gives you no information as to what brought the police to the scene in the first place. Based on the guy's slurring demeanor and the fact that the video conveniently begins after the police are already involved, i get the feeling that these two are just the type of tosspieces that go to an event just to create a scene and then put in on YouTube ("Don't tase me bro!"). It may not be compatible with your sensibilities, but he probably deserved to hear it from the crowd, as he was most likely drunkenly provoking them. Hard as it may be for you to accept, millions of Americans want to celebrate Obama's victory, and if you come to the party with a bad attitude, your ass is getting booed. You know that if the same situation happened in reverse, the McCain crowd would be chanting "USA! USA!" or somesuch.

I don't know what the guy was doing before the camera started rolling, but when a cop tries to hold your arm and you drunkenly wave it away like he does at the 1:00 mark, you're getting a pair of cuffs slapped on your wrists no matter what your shirt says. To interpret the actions of these Philadelphia cops as evidence of an encroaching police state under Obama, who was just elected and isn't even president yet, is straight-up delusional. Get a grip.

333 I despise the politics of McCain and Palin, and everything they stand for.

But those cops had absolutely NO right to prevent the man from expressing his speech by wearing the McCain-Palin shirt.

The people who cheered the cops for their violation of our Constitution were WRONG.  I hope the man who was arrested was released with no charges, and I really hope he knows there are people everywhere who would stand up for him; if I had been there, I would not hesitate to try to come to his aid.

The reason people like me despise the McCain-Palin-BushCo politics is precisely because of THEIR subversions and violations of our Constitution.

It is basic to all progressives that you cannot beat your oppressors by imitating them.  The crowd who jeered that man were absolutely wrong and should be ashamed of themselves.

;">If you want the real deal, check out ImpeachThem.com

People who've been victims of brutality by police in our USA know better than to side with cops who use the law as a mask for their thuggery.

I hope the man wasn't hurt.

Hutch

334 That crowd looked like a scene scene from Somalia, the hopping up and down, the cultish chant, the thirst for violence against the white dude.  Crazy shite, goin down in Bizarro World.

335 (#7) "The cops told him to walk away and he didn't. There was no assault on him or the cameraman. This is hyperbole and it doesn't do us any good. The cops did him a favor - the Obamatrons would have torn him to shreds. There is a time and place for exercising your freedom of speech - this was not it."

Wow, I didnt get far into the comments before the first "blame the victim" line.  I don't know what started the whole incident and quite possibly this guy deserved to be arrested, however, saying the cops did him a favor because the Obamatrons would have "torn him to shreds" is ridiculous.  The cops are there to protect everyone, him included.  What you are saying here is no different than those people whose reaction to the early 80's Central Park rapist case was along the lines of: "She was jogging in Central Park at 5 in the morning? What did she expect?"

336 This is amazing.  Was there something more to this than just wearing a shirt.  If it was just because of the shirt it would not surprise me.  Anything anit-Obama was labeled racist, now it is just illegal.

337

Another move in a string of many by Barack Hussein "can't touch this" Obama!  this is outrageous and just another move in segregating the United States and furthering the cause of progagandist, media-driven bias and socialism.  Lenin said, that this was indeed the job of the media was to smear the dissenters and futher the cause of socialism through progaganda, being antoganists, etc.  

Along with voting comes responsibilities with your choices..and with these choices come consequences..and we've seen NOTHING yet...Sad sad...but there are those of us who knew this was coming...

"there are none so blind as those who will not see."  Anonymous

 

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