1 Now that it's Recriminations Season, I'd like those who supported the bailout (Ace, I'm looking in your direction) to answer two questions:

(1) Are you ready to admit that your support of the bailout was a mistake?

(2) HadMcCain come out swinging against anti-bailout and pinned the whole thing on Obama and the Democrats, do you think he would have done better or worse in the election?

2 I had a financial guy explain that the bailout was needed to prime the pump of the economy. That it had to be big because it needed to be a psychological lift to investors.

Law of unintended consequences. Now every business that is struggling, which is a lot right now, is bellying up to the trough.

This a hurt now or hurt more later thing. I say hurt now. Unless the Messiah has a better idea. By hurt now I mean make them crawl for the bailout. CEO's and top execs forfeit their pay and bonuses to qualify for the bailout. What do you want to bet they figure out a better way than to stick the taxpayers?

3 GM, Ford and Chrysler are in deep shit. Chrysler will disappear within months and it makes more sense for Nissan-Renault to buy it than GM. General Motors refuses to get out of its own way and will also soon die. Ford ought to shut its US factories and just produce abroad.

The fucking UAW brought this on just as much as the companies, so fuck them, too. cocksuckers

4

This bailout shit has to stop. And the reason the auto industry is doing poorly has as much to do with the UAW having them by the balls as anything else. I read an article by George Will on this subject, and he wrote that GM is basically a healthcare provider that makes cars and trucks on the side.

I hate when failure is rewarded, but it seems to be official US Government policy now.

5 Pete,
McCain could not do that because he views himself as the peacemaker with the Democrats. He will not make principled stands against anybody but republicans.

He could have won simply by laying the blame at the feet of Barney, Chris and Nancy. Yes he should have rejected the bailout as a political stunt with little economics behind it.

6 Seems like we need a better more sleek business model. All these MBA's are losing to the Japanese just like they did in the 70's and early 80's. No foresight.

7 McCain was too busy being obsequious to Obama and Jeremiah Wright whilst running his hideous abortion of a campaign he squeezed between his arse cheeks to stand up against the bailout and espouse conservative principles.

8

"A healthy automobile manufacturing sector being essential to the restoration of financial market stability, ..."

 

I think that's already in the Constiution, no?

9

the reason the auto industry is doing poorly has as much to do with the UAW having them by the balls as anything else.

 

Yeah. This is a bailout for the auto worker unions as much as for the auto makers. In return, money will flow back from the unions into the Democratic Party coffers.

10

It is tough to post after masterbatin' pete, but I must.

 

I am going to string a few things together and end up somewhere crazy, but I could not find the right place to leave this comment on your website. I left a prediction in the comment section here a few months ago that something horrible might happen and it spilled into the real world. One person said the comment was passive aggressive and I could not disagree because I have not read it and I was drunk when I wrote it. It was not directed at anyone from the internet or in the news industry. I did not want to try and contact anyone because it seemed a bit creepy, but I am close to normal and feeling fine.

11

The entire 'baby-boomer' period was fueled with artificial, debt-fueled prosperity.  Bill Gates is a billiionaire because the U.S. is 10 trillion dollars in debt.  If the gov't didn't borrow and spend during that time, there would never have been all that money flying around the economy for Bill Gates to make ( I'm just using BG as an example). 

The baby-boomers were never 'wealth creators', all they did was indulge themselves and pass the debt burden on to their kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, etc.

Everything about the 'global economy' is un-natural...nature has to be allowed to re-assert itself...the longer you postpone the 'coming back down to earth', the more devastating it's going to be and the longer it's going to take to recover.

No bailouts.

12

Er, Greenberg??  He's the one Spritzer went after. 

A mess of Joos here boys, and YOU CAN BLAME IT ON THEM, Giving capitalism a bad name. I want the rewards, but I don't want the penalties.  Let's play football, and I don't have to accept any penalties, but you do.  Fuck him.

Why am I sucking wind so Greenberg can play golf? I don't remember them offering me any discounts on my insurance.   Fuck him, go broke asshole, you make wrong decisions, you pay the price. 

Oh, and now Republicans are all for socialism?  WTF is going on?  Is the water in DC that toxic?

I need a drink.

Kemp 

13 I was one of the "It doesn't sound like a good idea but hell if I know." bunch on the 1st bailout. I read up on it, I also watched all those CSPAN videos too. But the one thing that was made certain was the bailout needed a firm definition to determine the value of it. Well we got a plan with little definition and what does the govt do? Screw up! That's the 64 Thousand dollar question and answer! Erm, 700 Billion. We need to do everything we can to stop this bailout and buy in to failing businesses game.

14 "Barack Obama's Creepy Presidential Seal is Back!"

Did you guys notice this?

There it is, plain as day, on his podium. That guy is a menace. He is no fucking Jimmy Carter.

15 In 15 years, the American auto industry will be just as mighty as the British auto industry, and for the same reason.

Let them fail.  Let the UAW parasite die with its host.

16

Argentina?  Nationalized all pensions last week.  Wait boys, its coming to your 401K any day now.  Where do you send yours to save it? 

Maybe it IS time for some gold, oh wait, FDR forbid you to own it the last time we had this.  Think we might see that again??

Da Huh, wonder why guns sales are up??

Kemp

 

17 CanaDave,

I believe everything you said in#11. But here is the rub, how do you return to a real income based market. Babyboomers rejected their parents values, blew through their inheritance, have no savings, have spent their children's money. Now these unprincipled fools want to saddle their grandchildren and great grandchildren with their debt.

Hey, what was the national debt in 1965? 320 billion.

18 The $700 billion should have gone to the tax payers. With that kind of money in our pocket the economy would have boomed. Its our money anyway. I want my bailout!

19 I move that we start calling us actual conservatives the HAN SHOT FIRST wing of the party:  Fully armed, taking no crap, and in total resistance of revisionist history.

20

This is not the first time to bailout the automakers.  Let them go under, and take the UAW with them.  The automakers have proved that they do not deserve to stay in business.

21 Everything about the 'global economy' is un-natural...nature has to be allowed to re-assert itself

This chickens are coming home to roost!!!! You sound like Rev. Wright.  Not necessarily disagreeing though.

22

OT

 

Bill Ayers speaks up after reclusion

23

I will NEVER buy a new truck, car, from these Idiots again.

They can flush down the toilet.   They deserve what they get.

I now drive a 1970 bad ass rig, and they can fuck themselves.

No smogg shit,  No have to go for expensive  regulations regarding any of it. FUCK THEM,  All the O nuts, gore nuts ,

Unions Voted  for this ass.  FUCK YOU!

24

As owners of AIG, the US govt would be making a terrible mistake to dispose of THEIR assets at bargain basment prices. This illustrates yet one more problem with the govt getting involved, i.e. they don't know how to run a business. I would just as soon turn over AIG to a bunch of kids in grade 6 than I would the govt. I'd trust teh kids' instincts to turn a profit more than the bureaucrats.

I do think that those who argue that the financials were necessary to bailout but not the autos, are full of it. Either you can argue for both, or you can argue for neither (which is what I would argue). The exact same arguments can be made of both. Why should Wall St. get rewarded - ESPECIALLY since THEY are the ones who caused this mess for the entire world! - with survival, but not Detroit?

The thing that bother me most in this whole crisis (read: scam) is that Moody's and S&P are still standing. Worse, they are still downgrading, causing havoc. How can this be tolerated when ti was their AAA ratings that caused so many to lose so much money?

Why do the American people put up with this? Shocking how they bend over.

25

I'm just using BG as an example - CanaDave at November 08, 2008 11:21 PM

Dude, one can never err on the side of excess when it comes to demonizing Bill Gates. Never.

26 @locus ceruleus:  That's the question...I've already pretty much lived a minimal life...don't have much more to give this mess...that's what pisses me off the most about people in government that are older than me...their blind arrogance that us later generations can just keep picking up the tab...with what?...they farmed all our jobs overseas for 'growth'.  What do we have left to build on?

27 Let them fail and take the UAW with them. Didn't like the first bailout and now this. Its out of control. Who next? Line up, assholes.

28 cromagnum,

you just ruined a nice glass of wine. I read Billy Ayers article above and now I need to hit something.

Did you read the last line? Isn't that an Obamaism?

"In this time of new beginnings and rising expectations, it is even more urgent that we figure out how to become the people we have been waiting to be."

29 I don't think that the Big 3 are viable entities.  They cannot survive the coming storm of low end cars from India.  Protectionism is really the only way to make sure they survive, and I'm not sure how India is going to take that.

K

30

The best part about it is now I don't have to worry about putting gas in my car; I don't have to worry about paying my mortgage.  If I support him, he'll support me.

The worst part about this is that there are no moon colonies for me to flee to as yet.  But, you know, I hope that will change.

Best regards

31 @pirate of the perineum..Wright?...no need to get insulting

32

...this spending will be spent on creeping socialism.

Its not really creeping anymore, it's sprinting.

33

@Kestrel: Protectionism is really the only way to make sure they survive, and I'm not sure how India is going to take that.

Howsabout we put that to a vote...all those in favor of protectionism, say 'Aye'

Fuck India.

34

More gifts left by the outgoing Bush and that pasty mofo McCain. We're so screwed...

 

35 CanaDave,

if Palin and Jindal start saying that "we are not the kind of people that would max out a credit card that is in our children's name are we?" We are ruining our children's credit and future and need to get off that addiction now!

I believe the average American would understand and sacrifice to give our kid's a better future. Billy Ayers in the article above is exactly what I am talking about. He believes the 60's saved America.

36

locus

sorry about the wine

I read the whining bastard too ... lost my appetite. This means Lincoln bedroom for an American Hater.

37

Kestral

2 floods .. China and India

Thats a tsunami of cheapeness, unless currency/tariffs are imposed

They wont have the quality of Japan/SKorea, but come with free lead paint, or extra towel room for your head

38 Feb 6/08
Obama:"We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. We are the change that we seek."

11/08
Ayers:"In this time of new beginnings and rising expectations, it is even more urgent that we figure out how to become the people we have been waiting to be."

39 Another Update:

Bloomberg News, the media company, is suing the Fed over a FOIA request.

Bloomberg News asked a U.S. court today to force the Federal Reserve to disclose securities the central bank is accepting on behalf of American taxpayers as collateral for $1.5 trillion of loans to banks.

40 locus 35 - I was always glad I didn't have kids because I'm selfish and stuff, but I'm glad now for very different reasons. I would be afraid for their future given what we even suspect is coming.

41 I consider this latest series of TOTAL FUCKING RIPOFFS coming from Washington to be only the second most important reason to reject socialist plans like this bailout. 

Yeah, I said it.  Socialist. 

Reason No. 1 is that socialist bailout schemes like this one, even when they work as intended (or, at least, as they are sold to the voters and taxpayers), cause all kinds of economic problems.  The worst among these problems is that bailouts (like all subsidies and corporate welfare) interferes with the ability of market actors to find the true market price.  This, in turn, makes it impossible to determine the proper, economically-sound level of production in that market.  In this case, the simple fact is we have too many damned houses, too many houses that are too big, too many subdivisions, etc.  These easy-credit loan programs artificially inflated housing prices, and thus artificially increased house-building production above the levels that were supportable by actual market demand.  This bailout interferes with the liquidation process that we desperately need. 

Reason No. 2 to oppose socialist bailout schemes is corruption.  I have no doubt in my mind that this $700 billion will be spent on political crap.  They have NO REASON to spend it on things that are actually economically beneficial.  (In truth, they couldn't find the economically-beneficial ways to spend it even if they wanted to, but they don't want to.) 

This is what socialism brings -- (a) distorted markets and (b) huge sums of money placed in the hands of politicians instead of normal, hard-working people who earned it.  Giving money to politicians is like handing $80,000 in cash and the keys to your Ferrari to a heroin addict who just got out of prison for embezzlement, and expecting him to behave responsibly.  Jesus fucking Christ.  How stupid can you get? 

This bailout was a fuck-up of the first order. 

42 Swegin,

we have never had our own children. We do however have foster children that I care about deeply. I believe they will have to be tougher than I ever was.

43 "It is tough to post after masterbatin' pete, but I must..."

Women can do it hands-free.

44

@locus ceruleus: He believes the 60's saved America

I wonder how those fucked up liberal socialist pukes connect those dots...the late 60's was the beginning of the end of Western Civilization, period.  No culture could indulge itself the way they did and survive.

What's left to us is to try and detach ourselves from it somehow and not go down with their fruitcake sinking ship...how I don't know, but I think about it every damn day.

45 Gabriel comment #39: Couldn't we be doing more to protect SaudiGroup Inc. ahem CitiGroup Inc. and the other worthless failing banks? Sarc

46 @CanaDave,

I think all post-Boomers feel the same way about the Boomer generation. It's like they sucked the life, the money, the very blood of the nation for themselves and their perpetual dream of youth.

I think attrition alone may produce some nice results.

47 CanaDave,


have you read Warning to the West: Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn?

He saw this coming back in 1978. He gave this speech at the graduation ceremony at Harvard. I think it was prophetic and brilliant. The problem is materialism alone and unchecked in the human spirit leads to what we have. Man is more than just what he acquires.

I believe that it is not to late. Maybe we can turn this behemoth around.

48 Remember folks the Federal Reserve Bank doesn't have to disclose public information if it makes them look bad.

49 Heh - watching the re-run of Red Eye and they're showing the photo of Purple-Lipped Messiah on his Urkel Bicycle.

Love Gutfeld!

50 We all need to move to texas, annex New Mexico AZ, UT and NV and succeed from the union.

51

"Crisis! Crisis!"

Borrow money from the Chinese and Saudis.

Put the debt on the U.S.' books.

Make a plan to buy up distressed assets to get liquidity going.

Instead, take equity positions in private US companies.

Company officers take the cash and pay it to themselves in dividends and bonuses.

Net outcome: Chinese money delivered to executives, US taxpayers and their grandkids left to repay the Chinese.

Good work, Congress.

52 John G and I quit.

53

@Sekhmet: I've always felt that way...it's probably not all their fault...herd mentality being what it is, nevertheless, they don't seem to give much of a damn what kind of position they are leaving us in. 

I remembrer back in the 80's, this whole 'put your money to work for you' thing...this is the end result..a majority of population expecting to live off the interest...it's just not possible and maintain your sovereignty...they expect 100 Chinese to work for 50 cents an hour to support them?...not gonna happen.

Bill Clinton (baby boomer) opened the floodgates to trade with China.  Bush (baby boomer) capitalized on it.  I hate them both...they should both be charged with treason and hanged.

54 Eh, fuck this whole new metal thing. Not worth it.

55 Eh, fuck this whole new metal thing. Not worth it.

I'll say.

56 Blue states and the unions gonna get the money...gonna get a hand. Red states, you're gonna settle for the "finger".

57

@locus ceruleus: No, haven't read that...sounds interesting though.  I've always kind have felt this coming too though, back in the 80's getting out of high school, they began this insane debt fueled artificial economy.  Even as a clueless teenager it had the feeling of betrayal.

We've all seen with our own eyes how government people rationalize their excesses.  But now they don't even trouble trying to rationalize them, they just do it.

No bailouts, period.  Better to let it crash and burn now while we are semi-strong than later when we'll be a hell of a lot weaker.  We don't owe the self-indulgent baby-boomers a comfortable retirement...they lived their life, let them go kicking and screaming into the night...motherfuckers.

58 I guess we now know why Granholm was on the stage with Barry.

59 @Helen: I didn't know Canucks could be governors of US states...hey, I could use a job

60 About that "We Are the Ones We Have Been Waiting For" quote from Barack and echoed by Billy Ayers. When you google that phrase it's like being transported into a Berkley think tank.

Alice Walker, a poet who claims Fidel is religious because he stands for the poor, has book with that title.

June Jordan, a Berkley professor and also a communist, is credited with coining the phrase.

Sojourners are a liberal faith community that anti-war and pro social justice. Their site is what you would expect.

Thomas Friedman uses the phrase in an article to push for more movement on global warming.

It goes on and on. It seems our friends on the left have code words. "We are the people we have been waiting for" means we are the ones to disassemble democracy and capitalism.

Interesting that the messiah knows this jargon even though he only had passing acquaintance with them.

61 Hey!  I'm a baby boomer!  And I didn't blow through anything or waste anything!  All my husband and I ever did was get well educated, work hard, and raise our kids! 

I inherited a very modest amount of money  - which represented my parent's life savings, and is in investments, and which I was saving for our kids.  Now the stock market has crashed and taken away 12% of that (last I looked, and probably more now), the value of our houses is down, and now Obama's plans are to increase capital gains, increase taxes on dividends, raise taxes (yes, even ours, you know he will), and bring in new estate taxes.  Not to mention promising to skyrocket fuel prices and god knows what all else.

We are going to be wiped out before this is all over- by half, is my estimate (and I hope it's not worse) - and what we worked for all our life taken away, right before we can retire.  We are baby boomers, and none of it is our fault.  Try watching your life savings dwindle, after a lifetime of work, and then get back to me on that bit about how it's all the baby boomers' fault, why dontcha.

62 Socialism or a big fucking swindle? 

I knew that once the original $700B was authorized "they'd" come back for more.  This is embezzlement, plain and simple.

Didn't "excessive taxation" and "taxation without representation" become significant issues for a revolution a few years back? 

It's becoming clearer and clearer that the party elites, from both sides, represent nobody but themselves and their corporate/lobbyist handlers, - aided and abetted by their media enablers...

These are becoming dangerous times, indeed.

63 Expect the worst from the Democrats, and you'll never have to worry about being surprised. The shit will hit the fan sooner than most think, and those unprepared ( i.e. no gold, guns, or ready supplies) will be the worse for it. If you think people get ugly over elections, just wait. What might have been a recession 6 mo. ago, is starting to look much darker. Has anybody tried to buy gold eagles , or any small gold coin lately? Near impossilble to find here in California. Saw some advertised up in Washington two weeks ago....now they're gone too. T-bills will get you 1, 1.5% if you're lucky......

64

@Alana:  Sorry to put you so on the spot...it's not that you personally did it, but what your generation let the government do during your time...admittedly, there's not much anyone can really do with their government at any given time, but we're pointing out that your generation spent a hell of a lot more than you made. 

And now we all are spending a hell of a lot more than we are making...mostly so the politicians can keep living in Roman luxury.

65

@Bitter Clingy: Didn't "excessive taxation" and "taxation without representation" become significant issues for a revolution a few years back? 

I've been thinking about that a lot lately.  The American Revolution was about excessive taxation by England. The second American Revolution is going to be about the excessive taxation by Washington.

Maybe it'll be more like the French Revolution though...with a guillotine and the whole 9 yards heh heh

66 Alana,

thanks for the smack down. I am sorry but you are part of the problem. You only see things as how they effect you. I am sorry for your loss. I am more sorry for the loss of future generations. Your parents were the greatest generation and your generation, well not so much.

You were raised in the greatest expansion of an economy on record. You were given a solid infrastructure with institutions that people believed in. You gave us Keith Olberman , MTV and bailouts.

"We are baby boomers, and none of it is our fault." I am sorry for your myopic perspective. Each generation has it's own responsibilities and yours failed miserably.

67

OK- guys, I know it's fun to speculate about the Indians taking over the US car market, but it will not happen. There are a few reasons:

1) Indian cars do not meet US safety or emissions standards. They do have the technical know-how, but the cost is quite prohibitive for such a limited sales model. And grey-market cars are a thing of the past.

2) The Indian market, large as it is, is quite concentrated. Virtually everything built there is for "local" consumption. There is very little available that would even begin to suit our market design-wise.

3) Even if they did enter our market, setting up a sales network and working on  some sort of brand recognition would take years, if not decades. The only reason Acura, Infinity and Lexus didn't fail is because they were backed by three financially powerful companies that could afford to wait. Even at that, Infinity was shaky for the first few years.

4) The Indian market is so large, saturation is decades into the future. The Indians don't need to go looking for a market to sell to just yet.

All this isn't to say it couldn't happen. Hell, Tata just got through buying Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford. Who knows- maybe Hindustan will buy GM. If you know what Hindustan is, that would be funny. The whole point is, though, we won't be seeing a Maruti Esteem on our streets anytime soon.

68 You all arn't the Morons I thought I knew. Hopefully you can tighten it up by Monday PM. You sound like a bunch of sad sacks


sorry to have to say this but it's true.

69 Whoa!

I don't know where the generational blame-game started, but it is a gross generalization to say that the baby boomers qua baby boomers are responsible for our current situation.

70 Chumpo,

duly noted.

71 I should mention there are quite a few older Japanese and a few older American designs in India. But they still are limited by all the reasons I gave.

72 Right on locus. I have read your comments the last vouple of weeks and have liked them. Some of you all here tonight bette recognize that this is AoSHQ not some bummer crybaby log. pull it together and pull for the future.

73 Gabriel,
qua? Lawyering up on us? I was not offered latin in the Detroit public schools. In all seriousness I believe the zeitgeist of the 60's is the point of the discussion.

74 I too am a "boomer", and share a similar story to Alanas. Never voted for bigger government, asked for a subsidized student loan, or collected unemployment. Never wanted a hand-out, never expected one. Worked four nights a week and Saturdays to put myself through college. Put 20% down on our first house, and became quite familiar with "sweat equity". Don't expect to get a new car every other year......one we drive now is six years old, and we still consider it our "good" car. Our Toyota Rav has 145,000 on it, and nothing but oil changes and brakes....best car we ever owned! Now, I'm forced to contimplate the possibility that my 401k could be taxed, or usurped in some way.....oh, Barry you're gonna feeeeeel the love.....

75

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 09, 2008 12:51 AM (rWvvO)

True enough- especially considering that quite a few in Congress and in statehouses across the country are a wee bit older than the 'baby-boom' generation. 

76
Reading some of the financial blogs and even some of the people who supported Obama are starting to get the jitters.

77 Mr. Chumpo,

My posts above were a poor attempt to say, that if our party seized the mantel of personal responsibility, we would expand our base. We are not the party that will free you from the repercussions of your actions.

78

Reading some of the financial blogs and even some of the people who supported Obama are starting to get the jitters.

 

No kidding. Sounds like buyers remorse. Just what the fuck did they expect? Guess what, folks- there is a no-return policy on presidential elections.

79 Something to cheer us up: Piper Palin radio interview (and a little Sarah):

http://tiny.cc/7nglB

80 Oh for Christ's sakes.

I didn't give you anything of the kind.  I've fought it tooth and nail.

It is absurd for anyone to latch on to "baby boomers" as the enemy.  That simply causes division among ourselves.

Anyway, think about it:  How do you figure that you are screwed any worse than we are?  How would you like to be facing this right before retirement?  To have done everything right all your life and end up having it taken away from you by (a) stock market crash and (b) a socialist redistributing president?

Because Obama isn't out to soak the rich.  He is out to soak me and thee.  Anyone of any age who has been hard-working and conscientious (and volunteered, I might add!) is getting soaked by him to pay for people who actually have more color tv's and so forth than we do. 

If you don't have your retirement saved up, then bully for you.  You won't lose it.  You won't have it confiscated.  Do you know they are talking about confiscating the 401k's and the IRA's?

What it means for you is you won't be *able* to save up for retirement.  But for us, it means having done it, then having it taken away.  I think that is the more bitter loss.

And don't blame people for voting.  What did you expect us to do, not vote?  We are supposed to be represented by our representatives.

That they are doing a lousy job of it is their fault, not ours.  That they turn out to be a bunch of crooks is their fault.   (Now that we know, though . . .)

The enemy is not us.  The enemy is not young people, or baby boomers, or old people.  The enemy is not me, it's not you, and it's not my parents.

The enemy was first corruption in government, and now we are facing a worse enemy:  The wrong ideology.

Absolutely zero of this is my fault, or anybody's fault, by virtue of having been a baby boomer.  And I will remind you that while you are being bitter about your generation, I am way being way more bitter about having my children's future taken away from them, and the money is the least of it.

Focus.

81 "Maybe it'll be more like the French Revolution though...with a guillotine and the whole 9 yards heh heh "

Naah, haven't you read your Jonah Goldberg? The French Revolution was the first fascist revolution. I prefer the American Revolution

82 "Reading some of the financial blogs and even some of the people who supported Obama are starting to get the jitters."

Gee, why do people vote for a politician who they don't believe will do what he says he is going to do? I mean, it should be a safe bet that any given politician will at the very least pay lip service to what they are saying before getting elected---and if something about the plans bother you----DON'T VOTE FOR THE CHUMP!

Geez, and I'm not even any kind of financial genius...

83 About that "We Are the Ones We Have Been Waiting For" quote from Barack and echoed by Billy Ayers. When you google that phrase it's like being transported into a Berkley think tank.

Alice Walker, a poet who claims Fidel is religious because he stands for the poor, has book with that title.

June Jordan, a Berkley professor and also a communist, is credited with coining the phrase.

Sojourners are a liberal faith community that anti-war and pro social justice. Their site is what you would expect.

Thomas Friedman uses the phrase in an article to push for more movement on global warming.

It goes on and on. It seems our friends on the left have code words. "We are the people we have been waiting for" means we are the ones to disassemble democracy and capitalism.

Interesting that the messiah knows this jargon even though he only had passing acquaintance with them.

Posted by: locus ceruleus at November 09, 2008 12:33 AM (e2mBS)


For fuck's sake... that was the only line that I could ever remember from any of his speeches, and it's just some commie slogan he ripped off from somewhere else?!  Reagan must be spinning in his grave like a top right now.

And, by they way... I notice in the Bill Ayers article that he repeats the "kill him" lie that's already been debunked at least a hundred times.  Just another reason to hate that stupid cocksucking treasonous piece of shit socialist asshole.

84 Something to cheer us up: Piper Palin radio interview (and a little Sarah):

http://tiny.cc/7nglB Posted by: Swegin

Yeah I listened to that. Piper Palin is a sweetheart. Can't help but smile when I see her.

85

Watcher, WATCHER! C'mon, man! Get your facts straight. It's "stupid cocksucking treasonous piece of shit socialist COMMUNIST asshole."

Sheesh.

86 If you all are feeling bad, and of course this has been a real shit sandwich, try to find Kaptain Americas blog. I'm not going to link it now 'cause finding it requires that you do the minimum search through these blessed chapters of AoS. Things are fucked up, yeah, especially if you have the severe misfortune not to be an American Citizen. I love this country, nothing pissed in the Libs soup more than that.

87

And I just laugh and laugh and laugh...

GM couldn't be worse off if it was managed by a car full of clowns. They're a pack of demanding, arrogant morons to do business with.

88

@Sekhmet: Naah, haven't you read your Jonah Goldberg? The French Revolution was the first fascist revolution. I prefer the American Revolution

I was just trying to make it sound more scary

89

@Alana & Mr Chumpo: Conservatives are the same anywhere and anywhen...we're not accusing you personally, more during your time.  When our kids look at us (those that had kids, which is not me), they are going to accuse us of not having been tougher with you. 

Nobody wants the burdens of a previous era passed on to them...it's pretty much guaranteed that the future is going to fail...especially when there are less children born now than there were 40 years ago. 

That's why the government should never be allowed to borrow money...saint seducing gold...you can never trust another human being with your money...period.  You can't trust them with your credit card, you can't trust them with your checkbook, you just can't trust them.

90 ?

91 ??

92 It's not the baby boomers fault as a whole.  It's just that the baby boomers who were throwing tantrums in the streets in 1968 are now solidly in control of our government...with a very smooth talker as POTUS to make it all sound nice.

93 We had to destroy capitalism in order to save it!

94 Yea! Let's plant money and see if it grows out of the ground!

95

Alana,

It is the mindset of the 60's that is at fault.  The 'if it feels good do it', the instant gratification and let's postpone the consquences.  That mentality led to paying the minimum payment on credit cards and letting personal debt skyrocket, putting only 10% down on a home you couldn't afford, and hocking the future to have a good time today.  Their parents were more willing to accept self-sacrifice.

96

Yea! Let's plant money and see if it grows out of the ground!

So THAT'S why a venture capitalist calls it seed money!

/duh

97

I'm usually pretty gung-ho for the US Automakers, I worked at Ford and have a lot of family there.  Being a good American who loves his (former now) work, and really doesn't like the idea of the in-laws becoming the moved-in-laws I was pretty upbeat about the possibilities from Ford, they've got pretty good technology and some nice cars in the pipeline. 

My problem is that after a decade of struggling, the management is becoming geared to operating in failure mode rather than streamlining new products and reacting more quickly to the market. 

I love the Focus and Fusions, but the Flex is an abomination from the late 90's, why the heck did they finish the most expensive part of launching it when they could have booked the research and plowed money into retooling for other more marketable cars, like the EuroFocus or a 50state legal diesel?

The automakers need to find a fire and competitve spirit that makes them thirst for the blood of the competition, not this craptastic morass they've sunk to.

98 If you guys didn't catch the $50 billion ... YES BILLION dollar low interest loans they are requesting, guess what.

$25 billion of those loans go to cover healthcare costs. Healthcare costs from whom and how the fuck does any company need $25 billion to cover healthcare costs!?

Ladies and gents, I present to you...

The UAW!

99

Guys, it's important to remember, just because GM and/or Ford go banctrupt doesn't mean that they suddently cease to exist.  It just means that they have certain rights under the law to restructure and rearrange their operations while they try to retain their solvency.  It also allows an opportunity for the torch to be handed to more capable owner/operators as high-level management may receive a shake-up.

Bottom line, not handing out a hand-out doesn't spell the end of the world.  Let the system work.  What do you think we did before the "bailout" was ever considered before?  That's right...let it fail.

100 JimD - no, I just don't buy it.  Nobody I know did any of that profligate buying more than you could afford stuff, spending everything and living it up, like you talk about.

I don't think this has anything to do with age at all.  And certainly, if you want to go throwing around age,  you could move a decade younger from that, and then a decade younger, and so forth - just where are all the fiscally conservative people in those decades younger than mine?  What are the mistakes the younger groups made?  (Such as, for example, voting for Obama en masse.)

We ordinary citizens - of any age group - are not the problem here.   Fact is, we're being sold crap, and expected to buy it.  All of us.

My main point is, this is very early on times here of what we are facing, and dividing ourselves into age groups to blame is unhelpful.   However, I will accept your point of view from a philosophical angle, as a philosophical observation.   While not blaming younger people, which I could make a case against, if I wanted to.  Because it wouldn't be helpful to do that, and it also wouldn't be accurate or fair.

We need to hang together for this.

101 I wrote a scathing letter to Rep. Jeff Flake, Sens. Kyl and McCain 3 days prior to the first vote that shot down the bailout in the House.

I was literally jumping for fucking joy when the vote came out 227 against. I was screaming, "Finally, the fucking politicians are afraid of us!"

Then the fucking Senate decides to pull a smooth criminal (kinda like a Dutch Rudder, but nastier) and fuck over the constituency again. I made it very very clear that I would not vote to re-elect any representative of mine who voted in favor of the Bailout.

I received 2 letters from Sens. Kyl and McCain basically saying: Fuck you ignorant voter. Your opinion is shit. You are a drone.

Rep. Jeff Flake voted against the bailout (the $840 billion one with mental health and pet projects and shit) and I will be volunteering for his reelection. Sens. Kyl and McCain, not so much. This shit needs to stop. We need to make these fuckers afraid of us again like they were in Bailout Pt I.

God knows what other Faustian deals these bastages will cut with Barry despite us setting the DC Phone Lines on fire. Stand up! Stand up! Stand up and fight, you cooter sniffers!

102

So UAW and GM want a bailout, while UAW insists on Card Check, so they can get more members on the permanent GM dole, continuing to bleed GM white, and me and you are supposed to grab our ankles and crap money for a bailout.

Which way to Galt's Gulch?

 

103 Yes we should definitely send $50 billion to 3 companies who continue to pay people their full salaries AFTER they have been laid off... for months... sometimes years... and providing them with full benefits.

How about we do that for our soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines instead of some assholes who swing a robotic arm into position every 60 seconds.

"Shot down in a blaze of glory" is sounding more and more tempting every day.

104 Oh, the "I didn't know anyone that..." line.  Reminds me of the "I didn't know anyone that voted for Nixon" line.  No one is blaming YOU Alana.  Looks like the old phrase birds of a feather flock together is appropriate here.  You were a responsible citizen, and so were your friends.  Few others of that generation were.   And ya, I will take you up on your "generation younger" line.  The "me" generation started in the 60s and they passed that sense of entitlement on to their kids, and onward.  All of them?  OF COURSE NOT!  But the crap started in the 60s and continues up to today.  After all, the "youth" went big for Obama.

105

To summerize.  America went from "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" to "where's mine at" in the 60s, and we never looked back.

106 Jones - I think that may eventually be Texas.

107

The Unions want this card check BS because they know the auto manufacturers are about to go belly up. Every industry that they have tied up has gone belly up. They are like lethal parasites moving from one industry to another killing the host and moving on the fresh blood.

 

They are smaller scale equivalents of Democraps who try to do the same thing to the country at large. That is to implement an economy based on “magic beans” which somehow produce a free lunch.

108 The US already has a "healthy automobile manufacturing sector".  It's just not in MI.

109 Alana,

The enemy is the consolidation of power in any one place. The fact that it's government is a symptom of the larger human condition. Any time power is consolidated it will attract corruption and abuse. It's the nature of WE, the people.

The whole point of a limited government was to keep power dispersed. In that way the Founding Fathers hoped to leave their progeny a system that might work over time. And it has. But with the first great crisis of the modern era, The Great Depression, that government model was dismantled and we have one now where power is concentrated. And that inevitably leads to downturn and misery for those not within the power structure.

Ever has it been.

110 The feds won't stop until they have a seat on the board of every major corporation in the U.S. We are truly screwed.

111

But with the first great crisis of the modern era, The Great Depression, that government model was dismantled and we have one now where power is concentrated.

 

My take on this is that the government model of the founders was dismantled long before the Great Depression. Indeed, the great depression itself was caused by the actions of FDR and in order to do that the government had already concentrated power.

 

My feeling is that the concentration of power in Washington occurred during the Civil War and the days leading up to that war. When Lincoln was elected he assumed office with a working government comprised of what were known then as the “radical Republicans”. These individuals and the party of the time bore absolutely no resemblance to the current Republican Party.

 

Lincoln seized power like no one else ever before and he basically threw out the Constitution. Since the Democrat Party had split between the Southern slaveholders and the Northern Copperheads there essentially was no opposition. Following the war and the assassination of Lincoln and his subsequent deification the Radical Republicans in congress further concentrated power in Washington at the expense of the States.

 

The current “modern era” of socialism and communism actually had its roots in the “progressive era”. That group of politicians is what ultimately led to the 16^th amendment and FDR’s follies.

 

So the bottom line here is that great president that all call the savior of the union actually destroyed the country in order to keep ALL the States together.

112

Two more banks went down today; one in CA one in TX. And other banks were "awarded" their assets by the Feds, again, for pennies on the dollar. Pennies. On. The. Dollar.

Who's blowin' who?

Who's your daddy?

What the hell is that thing called ...rico, no ...libor. Yep. LIBOR, that's what it's called. Who's to really effin' say that the LIBOR wasn't being gamed?

Are we watching money being drained from the smaller players to the bigger players? The investments of the middle class are being vaporized by this whatever-it-is-that's-going-down. I hear some upstate commie-economist wants to go after 401K's now. Wealth is changing hands in a very, very fundamental way.

Convenient that all this financial crap happens right after the Republican convention, after the Palin choice totally stole the Obama thunder and had turned the polls upside down. And that they're still lobbing grenades at her. And ...

...and I'm turning into a 'noid.

Can I still blame Bush?

113

I'm a baby boomer and I agree with their critics. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, however. I fought those 60's lib sons of whores as hard as I could. I donated thousands to the Republican Party to get a shot at having Reagan elected. The problem isn't with the boomers; it's with the greatest generation who should have shot the boomer libs down in the streets when they were treasonous college students. Those bastards should have been liquidated or jailed for forty years. The greatest generation was too bewildered to do that because their will was sapped by the "hate America first" crowd.

Those of us who fought like hell for the Republicans and conservative agendas in those bitter years from 73 to 80 bought your generation time to prepare. Without us there is no Ronald Reagan and the Soviet Union (with the help of lefty bastard American traitors) wins the Cold War. Again, I agree with the boomer critics. Just don't make the mistake of blaming all of us. Some of us fought in Vietnam for a country that first sent us there, then often looked like it hated us for going. If nothing else, we at least made damned sure that crap didn't happen again to our men and women in uniform who fought for us in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Remember one thing: if you think you hate and despise these lefty boomer bastards, you can't hate them as badly as people like me do. We've been putting up with their garbage for a hell of a lot longer and hate them with the searing fire of a thousand suns. I'm serious as a heart attack when I say I've wished many times it would come to guns. There are a lot of people on the left whose thinking would be greatly improved by what they would receive in a civil war.

114 why not just have the gov't buy everyone a new car, solves two problems...

115

New

 

I couldn’t afford for them to “give” me a new car. The local taxes on it would bankrupt me.

116 the car companies have been failing for years, it has been a shell game.

117 Howzabout a bail-out for the firearms manufacturers?   Oh wait -- I hear that they're doing pretty well in recent days.   Go figure.

118 I've always hated Ford's shitty sales practices and refuse to ever set foot in a dealership ever again.  GM cars just suck, their company is run by accountants, not car people.   I acquired a GMC Sierra via auction with 650 miles on it, I have 1200 on it now and I am already having problems. It was a good deal only on paper.

Let it all burn. 

119

This article on the Automaker  troubles talks about Ford and what is wrong with the industry. Basically that they couldn’t make any money off of small fuel efficient cars due to high labor costs and how trucks and SUVs were carrying them. Now that gas prices killed the trucks and the SUVs they are going belly up.

 

Now they say they need a bailout loan from the Democrats and the Democrats are more than willing to help them in order to help the unions. And here is where the real problem lies.  The Democrats basically created the all powerful unions and the unions have destroyed the auto makers. So now the Democrats have to bailout the automaker.

 

This is NOT an isolated instance and it reflects the overall bankruptcy of the socialist practices of big government intervention. They intervene to make unions virtually undefeatable and when the unions became corrupted by that power they began bankrupting the auto company.  Then a correction by the government is needed to fix the “unintended consequences” of the first act.  That correction will be either highly inflationary or be associated with high taxes, both of which the people will have to pay for. That will then cause further economic downturn and will require even further government intervention. It becomes an engine ran off of regenerative (positive) feedback. Engineers know how well that works.

 

This is not restricted to the auto industry.  Every time the heavy hand of government gets involved in some endeavor they screw it up, either through shear incompetence, corruption, or the law of unintended consequences.  They create these programs, whether large or small, place their buddies in charge of them and move right along. None of these programs are ever examined to see if they actually work, or indeed, if they cause actual HARM. Once they start creating problems instead of simply eliminating the program they create additonal programs to fix the consequences of the first. It is literally insane.

 

They always become part of the entrenched bureaucracy complete with their own ever expanding fiefdoms. LOL, we still have a national program for helium in order to fill Navy dirigibles for submarine watch off the coast.

 

The sad thing is that this will continue until the country and the government collapses and the blood begins to run in the street.

 

120 I gree w/ Allen@ 97. I got rid of my F250 Diesel, because I only needed that much truck 6 times a year to tow my boat. And at $4.85/gal., it was not that cool a ride anymore. ... I miss my 1989 Isuzu turbo diesel 4x4 X-cab. As for the bailout.............(1) Drill here and Now!. I've had my eye on a new F-150, but I'm not budging because I'm afraid gas will hit $5/gallon in 18 months. Yes, the $8300 off sticker and 0% are tempting, but if fuel spikes, I'm fucked. (2) Ask all the assholes that bragged about forcing the big three into higher CAFE standards how they feel now. ...." Senator douchebag, now that you have forced the big 3 into making cars people don't want, how will a Bailout help them?????" I would love a small truck with a turbo diesel....Make quads street legal, in side roads (I saw this in Greece last summer)....Make a motorcycle only lane, 3'-4' wide, on all Interstate roads. This will entice more people to ride a 7500cc/ 80mpg bike. 4' of extra paving will have a huge payback in jobs and fuel economy. Every road has room for these...Relax impact standards... Every asshole with an airbag and a cellphone thinks they are invurnerable to personal harm. ../.If the want a 3 wheel, car with Zero safety features, let 'em have it.  

121 Motorcycle tax credit. Double if American made. Triple if you have a concealed carry permit and discourage  cage drivers from tailgating and being assholes in general. Bonus credit for hauling the kids to school in a Sidecar.

122

How come nobody's talking about the shitheads at AIG? They use their bailout for a executive spa vacation, then complain that the bailout terms are "too draconian"? What the fuck!

Give me some of that draconian shit man, I need a massage!

 

123 There are other industries that need bailing out too!

http://nomayo.mu.nu/an_industry_in_crisis

124 Jen, you just got you colon massaged. What mor do you want want? Hater!

125

Yep, and here is yet anotheri industry going belly up due to government harrassment that needs a bailout.

126

Chemjeff's To Do List

1. Cash out the 401(k). It is managed by an AIG subsidiary anyway so it will go under any day now.  Who cares if I have no retirement funds, the government will bail me out.  Spend the money on hookers, smokes 'n' beer.

2. Mortgage the house.  Hell get a second, third, fourth mortgage.  I tell ya, I was SWINDLED by the evil greedy bankers!  Bail me out!  Spend the money on hookers, smokes 'n' beer.

3. Max out the credit cards.  After all I'll be bailed out here too.  Spend the money on...you guessed it.

4. Shack up with Peggy the Moocher.

 

127

As to the automotives....

 

We note that The O-and-Savior is likely to prescribe, by EO, the Californicate emissions standards.

 

Think that the Big Three will object, knowing that their $50Bn gift is on the line?

128 "worst auto market in 25 years" my lily-white dimpled ass!  They are planning on using 20 bil, give or take, just to fund their various retirement and pensions for the beloved union workers they mever could afford in the first damn place.  Why don't they send one million people a check for 30K so we can buy new cars instead of begging for handouts that won't be used appropriately anyway.  Fucking idiots.

129 #99 - You are right. Airlines seem to go bankrupt all the time.  And then they merge, spin off, do whatever it is that they do, get back on their feet.  And they still continue to fly planes even while in bankruptcy.  Let the automakers do the same thing.

130

Mac@113

The smartest post on the thread. 

I  WORKED for BARRY GOLDWATER, while you guys weren't even a glime in someones eye.  Don't give me shit about be a liberal.

It was my parents and their friends, too lazy and preached to by Dr. Spock, et al, that did not disciple the boomers.   Most Boomers are spoiled brats.  I was in Chicago in 68, watching the hippies and fighting them.  I know of what I speak.

Me Me Me.  And most of the Boomer's kids, you all, are worse.  No one teaches accepting responsibility for your acts anymore, it's aways someone else's fault.

Lots folks here need to GROW UP.  You teach your kids to take responsiblity for their acts and not blame someone else then we'll be off to a good start. 

My sons worked in college and paid for their entire college education. 

Any of you all do that?

Kemp

131 I will wager that the auto industry, and any industry with unionized workers, will get whatever they want come January.  If GM fails, the UAW and its massive contributions to Dems, fails, which will put a financial dent in Barack's second campaign.

132 I'm with Alana (#61).  Blaming the boomers is not the answer. I'm a baby boomer, too, with four adult children.  My husband and I worked our butts off to put all four of them through private schools (Catholic) and private colleges and they are hard-working EARNERS and CONTRIBUTORS to society because of the example we set for them.  (My parents did the same for me and my seven brothers and sisters.)We live modestly, always within our means and take nothing from anyone.   Those greed-heads in Washington and their cronies looted the place and now Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, Reid want to grab the money that all of us (including boomers) have socked away. If that happens, President HopeyChangey will be in real trouble.  They'll have to pry my retirement money from my cold dead hands.  Believe me, in a couple of years, President Bush will be looking real good and lots of folks will be feeling like total saps.

133

Wow.  It's just a shame that no one could have seen any of this coming.  How could we possibly have expected this? 

Oh, wait.  I did expect this. 

134 Kemp,

I did. I got scholarships and I worked too. And I made great grades. WTF do you think I'm a conservative?

135

The best solution is to let Michigan, "whither on the vine".

136

#134

Good! Yeah, a little work makes most kids understand, when the man takes their money, they don't like it.

Kemp

137 Fuck 'em all.  Let it fall. We need some much needed and overdue house cleaning.  Let the UAW fall with them.  Give them a chance to rise from the ashes and cast aside those parasitic unions...

138 (The Left):  "Our economy is totally controlled by big *corporations*, and they're, like, real *eeevil*, and Bush and Cheney are in cahoots with 'em and give those damn corporations all the tax breaks, see?  So what we need is to elect **Democrats** to congress, because they'll stand up for the working stiff instead of the big corporations!  Yeah, dat's da ticket!


Fast-forward to a couple of days ago:
"A healthy automobile manufacturing sector is essential to the restoration of financial market stability, the overall health of our economy, and the livelihood of the automobile sector's workforce," Pelosi and Reid said in their letter [in which they requested $50 billion for the Big 3 U.S. automakers].


(The Left):  "Oh, well *that's* okay because that money is gonna go to keep jobs for working stiffs, so they can keep those good union jobs.  And we're for anything that helps unions!

139

The Democratic-led government now wants to buy shares in the auto industry, as if 700 billion for their failed sub-prime mortgage debacle wasn't enough.

Look for more of this to happen. Everytime a corporation fails due to its own mistakes, government interference, or just the fact that it didn't succeed in the global market, it will be able to dig deeper into the pockets of taxpayers for salvation.

Welcome to centralized government extortion.  Lenin would be proud.

140 The Democrats basically created the all powerful unions and the unions have destroyed the auto makers. So now the Democrats have to bailout the automaker.

As some others have already noted, I think the Dems are most interested in bailing out the auto makers in order to save the auto makers unions. The Dem party fully expects to get their kickback on this.

141

I think Cavuto had the right idea. Make firing the CEOs with no parachutes a condition of the bailout. Also, I would add firing of all the union heads a condition.

142

#5...during the campaign, I distinctly remember McAislecrosser refusing to mention any of the Fannie Mae offenders by name...he called out Obama for his glut of donations from Fannie/Freddie, but never once that I heard mentioned Frank or Dodd by name...always by committee position. 

Sue Myrick from NC voted against the 1st bailout then voted for the 2nd more craptacular version.  I called her office and emailed several times.  She sent me a nice long, uninspiring letter explaining her cave.  I sent a very pointed, but professional, rebuttal and she actually called...I've yet to call her back because I don't think I can stop from screaming  the words "I told you so". 

Let this be a lesson to all conservative reps and senators...when you give in on principle, you also lose on political grounds.

143

when the 700 billion bailout was being argued i said it wouldn't fix anything, it didn't, i said the gov's answer to that failure would be even more money, it is.

can we all agree now that throwing worthless currency at the problem is NOT the answer?

144

the uaw has 4 billion in a strike fund.let them float a loan.why don't they pay there own lazy slugs for a month.

where is any capilist ideas on any of these bailouts.is the gop that much in the tank.

how much whould it have cost to just not have them pay their taxes.this whole thing is just a wholesale socialist takeover of the country.

the only way they can totally count on complete power is the destruction of the economy.

 

 

145 The taxpayers already own 80% of AIG according to the terms of the loan.

Yes, but the management of AIG owns 100% of the Democratic Congress.

146 If we were talking about a crisis at another time, I'd say the UAW contributed.

But, when people can't buy cars because they can't get loans and the US Auto Industry Suffers, that is the UAW's fault how?

This is doing what the bailout money was suppose to be used for.  To keep credit flowing so businesses like the Auto Companies, the reason the financial sector exists, can go about their business. 

147 Here's the deal:  It's not "baby boomers who did this."

It's "liberals who did this."

(And now, spineless conservatives who have joined their ranks.)

So let's just get that straight.  Conservative baby boomers did not do this.  Never did, never will.

The issue is ideology, not age.

148

#146

i don't have the best credit on the planet, i talked to my bank and a car dealer, if i wanted to i could go get a loan for a new car tomorrow, there is no consumer credit crunch, this is a manufactured crisis being used to destroy the dollar.

i know that sounds all Alex Jones-y but it's the only thing makes any sense to me...

someone please talk me down from here with some solid facts, because i don't see any facts that would support the need for anymore bailouts.

149

My sons worked in college and paid for their entire college education. 

Any of you all do that?

Good for them.  As it happens, that doesn't have anything to do with being a conservative.

My parents had 7 kids and put them all through college.  Their philosophy was, "Don't have the kids if you can't help them get enough education to make a decent living."  Zero college loans and ROTC or academic scholarships only...

...and every single one of us is a Republican.

On the flip side, I went to college with plenty of people footing their own bill and thinking the government should save them all that work.  I got an earful of how unfair it was that my parents had the foresight to provide for my education.  Like that was a flaw.

Political philosiphy has nothing to do with a parent's ability to provide financial support and everything to do with the manner in which it's provided.

150 i'm a baby-boomer and i agree that my generation has totally screwed-the-pooch, it's my generation more than any other has engendered this "i deserve something for nothing" attitude, to be certain there are many bommers who resisted, but as a rule of thumb, boomers are a bunch of spoiled, whiny brats and they have passed their disease on to the following generation(s) 

151

I want this bailout to fail for both ideological and tactical reasons:

Ideological:  I don’t want my tax dollars paying for retirement benefits of UAW workers – particularly since the monies will be managed by the corrupt, sleazy UAW.  Moreover, this is much worse than the financial bailout in that there’s no payback potential at all.  It’s just money going down a black hole. 

 

Tactical:  Unions love Barry and Barry loves unions.  This bailout is merely payback for all the money the unions put in Democratic coffers this year.  I guarantee you, the Dems will try to frame this as “helping the hard working auto workers” instead of “spending our tax dollars on a corrupt union” (or “helping the big bad auto companies” for that matter.)  It’s in the best interest of conservatives and the Republican Party for this bill to go down in defeat.  The unions are nothing more than a Dem special interest group – like ACORN.  Fuck ‘em. They need to taste a little market discipline.  To me this is like the Dems spitting in our faces while we’re down.   We need to get all Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats, and all the members of the Skeptics Caucus from the financial bailout to vote against it.  This is just wong.  

152

#148

GM's former financing arm GMAC won't give loans to people with credit ratings below 700 pts.

But what you don't see is that the auto industry moves inventory and supplies on credit. 

If they amassed a huge wad of capital to perform these tasks, one of two things would happen. Shareholders would raid the kitty.  Or, someone would conduct a takeover to raid the kitty.  The former happened when Daimler took over Chrysler and raided their $12bln rainy day fund. 

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