1 He did say shut the fuck up--to his own campaign--about Wright, Ayers, etc.

2 McCain would rather cross the isle and join the Obamalanche.

My friends.

3 I HATE John McCain.

He's not a conservative.

His defeat, while being spun as a defeat for conservatives was no such thing.

Conservatives are not interested in amending the 1st Amendment.

Conservatives don't trash the private sector as bad guys and deride capitalists who 'lead for profit' (profits would look pretty good about now, eh?)

Conservatives don't want to regulate the economy in order to 'solve' the 'problem' of 'global warming'.

Conservatives don't engage in class warfare while opposing tax cuts.

Conservatives don't support amnesty for those who flaunt our country's laws.

John McCain is at best a conservative Democrat but he is not a movement conservative as the term is defined today.

John McCain now needs to go away. Of course what John McCain will do is go back to beating up Republicans in a quest to get back in the good graces of those he really cares about and respects...the media and Democrats.

Fuck John McCain.

God that feels good.

4 I feel like we should start a clock-" McCain blames Palin , Day 4."
As much as I dislike the president-elect, one part of me is glad I will never have to defend this guy when he pulls his backstabbing crap.
Watch him become the media darling again- mission accomplished eh John?

5 Jon McCain was/is no conservative. Republicans did not even bother to vote. THAT is why we lost.

6 Although I was never a McCain fan, I gave McCain the benefit of the doubt because of his service and because he picked Palin as VP; but as of this incident , and because of his past screwing of the GOP in the senate,  he can just go to hell. Join the resistance - anysreet.org

7 McCain is like living with an abusive husband. He smacks you upside the head, then he comes home with flowers and says he loves you. The next morning you wake up and he's shot the dog and burned the barn down and tells you it's for the good of the country. Supporting that man this election was one giant bi-polar recurrence! Where's ma damn meds!!!??

8

McCain is silent on Palin because he is a dumb shit liberal asshole. He probably agrees with the Romneyites that she is a danger to the liberal wing of the party and she may be fine as a VP (with no power) but she should never be allowed to rise above that position.

 

I agree, fuck him. He is no longer the lesser of the evils.

9

Going shotgun shopping today, my glock and .357 won't be enough to take care of the Obama SS when they come to collect my taxes ...er I mean ... tribute to the ONE!

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."

10

Silence implies consent.

11

Why don't you effin "conservatives" start your own damn party instead of doing nothing but sitting around bitching about mine.

Or you could just come to the buttplug party I'm throwing tonight and join me in some hot, man-on-man oil wrestling.

12 During campaign, if you listen to McCain in regards to Sarah, it was always said with amusement, and in  using that tone degraded her. It is a guy thing.  disgusting...look at the woman, isn't she cute?

13 basket - o -nothing - Best idea yet, and when we walk away, you won't have a party! Join the conservative renewal - anystreet.org

14 The country club GOP is what, 10% of the party? Lots of luck their pal. Have fun in Loserville!

15

Another “concerned basket”?

16

"Allah suggests two possible reasons for McCain’s silence on the leakers, he’s either too busy or in no hurry to do so."

You always want to beware of framing false dilemmas because most times there may be several other possible explanations. For example, in this case I believe that Occam’s Razor would cut to a third and more obvious explanation for McCain’s stunning silence — he’ s as out of touch with this scandal taking place in his own camp now as he was when it began back in September.

God bless John McCain because I fear he doesn’t have a clue.

17

As Rush put it a few days ago, the McCain campaign has now spend more time attacking Sarah Palin than they have Ayers, Wright, Rezko, Raines, Fannie and Freddie, Frank, Dodd, Pelosi and Reid...combined.

What a crackjack group of fuckers.

18 Hey, basket - why don't you go discuss the breeding of polo ponies with Mitt Fucking Romney?

19 You don't even call yourselves Republicans and you make damn sure everyone knows it - so good riddance. Republicans need to form coalitions to win elections and you're only interested in sniffing each others' butt when there's a whole world of butts out there to sniff...and lick..and...cherish.

Mmmmmmm...BRB.

20 its a disgrace

21 Shit - I didn't realize basket is a Kos troll.

22

Why don't you effin "conservatives" start your own damn party instead of doing nothing but sitting around bitching about mine.

Your party's entire existance is defined as living off of conservative votes and then stabbing those voters in the back. You're like some tapeworm in the Conservative intestine...draining resources, selfishly sustaining yourself at our expense...until we shit you out.

23 Carl Cameron, reporting from Phoenix, is himself confused between South America and South Africa. Carl Cameron has a long history of whole clothing politics in order to promote his screen time in news broadcasts. Carl Cameron is the worst example of a journalist employed by Fox News. That Fox News is promoting Carl Cameron's promotion of whole cloth news fabrication proves the entire Fox network organization's duplicitous nature, NOT fair and balanced, only biased for progressive affection.

The real McCain has made himself known. In this campaign, McCain proved small, bitter and twisted against conservatism while magnanimously promoting progressive socialism. Even on fiscal terms, he saved pennies in a piggy bank while downloading the nation's federal reserve for fraud. As a progressive, McCain exudes the very antipathy for conservatism that socialism revises as "compassion". I was affronted when hardline conservative independents called McCain's innate nature immeasurably corrupted by his 5.5 year torture from the Viet Cong Communists in prison, disabling his mental acuity into a self-defeating entity. But despite our faith in his better nature, McCain proves his own failings time and time again. And for McCain to have enlisted Gov. Palin to his side, only to abuse her, proves what a poor example he really is.

Senator McCain, I would gladly give you the benefit of the doubt just as I gave you my vote, despite your failings, if only you would provide your running mate the honor she earned and deserves for having fought your battles for you and with you. You are jealous that America admired Palin's talents and innate nature exuding the true American Spirit of optimism and positive energy. You presume integrity where actually you prove inept. Shame on you to drag anyone as your scapegoat, particularly Gov. Palin. Shame on your silence. Shame on your lack of leadership, unable to command your own staff. You would not have been a good chief executive.

24

Basket-o-crap you are really boring

25

This report from Rasmusen is telling for two reasons.

"These findings echo a survey earlier this week which found that  Republicans were happier with their vice presidential candidate than with their presidential nominee. Seventy-one percent (71%) said McCain made the right choice by picking Palin as his running mate, while only 65% said the party picked the right nominee for president.

The key for the 44-year-old Palin will be whether she can broaden her base of support. An Election Day survey found that 81% of Democrats and, more importantly, 57% of unaffiliated voters had an unfavorable view of her." (emphasis mine).

 

1.  McCain and/or his peeps know she was the star of the ticket.  For someone with a massive ego, this is tough to admit.  Tearing her down is the path of least resistance. 

2.  Thank you, MSM, for more tips on how to lose elections through broadening the base.  If they mean broaden by vigorously debating the conservative position to bring more voters to our side, then great.  I suspect they would like to see Palin track to the center to become less of a threat more appealing to the masses.  Isn't that special?

26 It does feel liberating to finally say "Fuck McCain". In his political career, the only thing worth a shit that he ever did was support the surge. And how important was that anyway? Bush never has given a shit what Congress says about the Iraq War; he would have done it whether McCain supported it or not.

Fuck McCain, hiding behind the skirts of Sarah Palin and Nicolle Wallace.

27 There's another possibility: that Palin herself asked McCain not to get involved, so that the whole thing could just die out. I think it was in one of the interviews with her I watched after she returned to Alaska, but she mentioned they had talked several times and the subject of the sniping came up. She wouldn't say what she and McCain said in their conversation, but part of me wonders if she said to just let it die, knowing this will soon pass.

Just thinking out loud.

28

"Your party's entire existance is defined as living off of conservative votes and then stabbing those voters in the back"

Then start your own party and leave us alone to form the coalitions needed to win elections. It's obvious you small minded morons like to lose. 

29 Did you know that because of his war injuries, John McCain is physically unable to give you a reacharound? Not that he would anyway.

30 Yeah guys, basket is right. It's about winning elections. Come join us "winners"

31 basket blah blah blah - get your check from Oblaba yet?

32

What wing of the Republican party does basket represent? I've spent damn near 20 years volunteering my time and money to Republicans, and I want the conservatism back. As Rush says, conservatism wins every time it's tried.

Basket, get me a juicebox.

33 McCain needs to retire and grill more ribs full-time, while Cindy runs for his Senate seat.  I have a feeling she'd be a far more reliable conservative than him.

34 juice -  get me a basket box too

35 Basket's right. Elections are like Special Olympics. Hug and smile a lot, stumble through your race, and afterwards, we can take special joy in knowing we're all "winners"

36 McCain was broken by the commies...twice

37 Why don't you effin "conservatives" start your own damn party instead of doing nothing but sitting around bitching about mine.

You don't even call yourselves Republicans and you make damn sure everyone knows it - so good riddance. Republicans need to form coalitions to win elections and you're only interested in sniffing each others' butts.

Then start your own party and leave us alone to form the coalitions needed to win elections. It's obvious you small minded morons like to lose.

Why are you here? This is a nest of what you don't like.

Don't tell me you're here to convince us of the error of our ways....well...you've got me,

I am going to give money to the Republican Party. (the Palin pick is the motivation)

When it trashes a VP candidate that I support then I'm going to turn the other cheek.

Yes...that feels good thanks basket.

Your work here is done.

38 Phineas: "this will soon pass"

It is the premise that McCain's top staffers say this that lends credence to the lies. So long as McCain's insiders are left anonymous, the lies instead of dying will mutate their own offspring of lies. The only thing that will soon pass is McCain's opportunity to squash the lies in the bud.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that Palin asked for this abuse and for McCain to leave her to his staff's attack. PALIN ASKED FOR NAMES.

Listen to the interviews as Palin asks reporters WHO IS SAYING THESE THINGS and they respond no name beyond McCain Staff. No matter how many times she rebutts the lies, the media throw up the same regurgitated questions in Palin's face. They want to make her into the monster they've projected her to be.

Palin may do herself a favor by spending this time before Obama's  inauguration solidifying her own supporters, networking amongst strong conservatives in and out of the GOP, and granting no more interviews as McCain's ex-running-mate, only as GOVERNOR PALIN. It's time for Gov. Palin to be more selective in her close contacts, because not many have integrity to match her own. Don't cast your pearls before swine.

39 I don't want to say "fuck McCain" anymore, because I do think that genuine war heroes deserve honor and respect.

However, it's nice to no longer have to try and convince myself or anyone else that John McCain would have made a good president or that his special brand of "conservatism" bears any resemblance to the real thing.

Hugh Hewitt sums up McCain perfectly:  great American, bad Senator, lousy Republican (paraphrased).

40 I'm not ready to give up on him doing the right thing yet, but it does seem that if he wanted to do it, he could have.  Yes, he needs to tie up loose ends... but one could make a case that this is the biggest loose end he needs to tie up. 

I think 16 raises a very plausible scenario.  He was so out of the loop in his own campaign that he fears exposing his own malfeasance throughout it. 

Wait until he votes for Comprehensive Piece of Shit... and it passes.  Wouldn't put it past him to be the deciding vote for cloture just to rub it in our faces.

41 DrewM @ #3

Thank you for expressing everything I have been wanting to say for months now, but have not been able to because of the necessity to show 'unity' in order to defeat Barack Obama.

My guess is part of the reason that McCain is slow to come out and defend Sarah Palin is that he realized a long time ago that most people never supported him, and the only reason he did not go down in a worse landslide, of 49 States to 1 proportions, was due to people liking Sarah Palin and everything for which she stood and for everything she has achieved during her political career thus far.

I still believe he could give two turds about Conservatives, or the principles and values we hold dear, and he is probably still bitter that he *had* to choose Sarah Palin over his good buddy Joe Lieberman in order to get the base to support him.

I wish I had documented every blogger and commenter who derided all of us Conservatives to shut our traps and get with the program of supporting "moderates" as that is the future of the GOP and the only way to win now. Yeah, brilliant. At least I can now go back to not staying silent about the need to adhere to conservative principles. And I don't have to listen to my 'betters' telling me that I am a traitor to this country if I don't support McCain 1000% in order to defeat Obama.

I never supported McCain and I still do not. I voted for him in order to vote *against* Obama. That's it.

42 McCain was broken by the commies...twice

It's obvious that McCain has Stockholm Syndrome. 

43 "him to be the deciding vote for cloture just to rub it in our faces."

That McCain would even WANT to rub his own shit in our faces is what makes no sense to anyone with integrity or honor or basic human decency.

44 I'm of the camp that thinks the main reason McCain and Palin lost is because far too many voters went:

"Like. OMG, Barack Obama is like totally black and stuff, and I want to make history y'know? I think that's hawt."

Ronald frakkin Reagan would have lost to that shit like Ford lost to Carter. And speaking of Carter, if you aren't at least 42 years old, you were too damn young to really remember the Carter years yourself, and likely have relied on William Ayers' students to tell you how it really was.

McCain has a spot on the Tonight Show coming up. I hope he uses this opportunity to defend Palin (Hey, maybe Mac figures it's the only way to get on the record unedited---y'all ever think that?) But keep in mind, it is sadly normal for the losing political party to snipe at one another in the postmortem.

45 I never supported McCain and I still do not. I voted for him in order to vote *against* Obama. That's it.

True dat - I voted for Sarah Palin and against The Purple-Lipped Dipshit. McCain was just the shit sandwich I had to eat to get what I really wanted.

46

Whether McLame refutes them or someone else refutes them, they do need to be refuted and loudly. We all saw what the results of the “Bush lied” meme were when it was allowed to fester because he was “so above the fray”. Personally I am tired of this “honor and dignity while losing” bull shit.

 

So I’ll repeat, if he doesn’t refure these lies, then fuck him.

47 This is really the perfect MSM trap. If McCain stays silent, he is condoning the attacks. If he defends her, it makes her look weak. Lose-lose.

On the other hand, it's obvious that he hasn't done anything behind the scenes to stop this. I take that inaction as approval.

What is more disturbing is that this sabotage campaign will probably continue. The Obama regime will do what they can to hurt her in Alaska by screwing with everything the Feds control up there. Torpedoing the pipeline she negotiated may be first on the agenda.

48 I wish I had documented every blogger and commenter who derided all of us Conservatives to shut our traps and get with the program of supporting "moderates" as that is the future of the GOP and the only way to win now. Yeah, brilliant. At least I can now go back to not staying silent about the need to adhere to conservative principles.--Michael in MI

+1

I gave my financial contributions to Fred Thompson for First Principles, for the original Constitution ruling our judicial system, a strong military and BORDER SECURITY. After McCain announced Palin as his running mate, I gave a financial donation to a solicitation from HER. I voted McCain to vote for Palin and against Obama.

49

So write to Mike Duncan, RNC chair and let him know how you really feel. His email is chairman@gop.com. Here's what I wrote:

Dear Mr. Duncan,    A disappointing election, no question about it.   

But what I and my husband (max donors to McCain/Palin Victory fund, max donors to the Elizabeth Dole reelection committee) are most disturbed about is the post-election treatment of Sarah Palin.   

If the Republican National Committee does not sniff out and deal with former McCain staffers who are now trying to smear Governor Palin, you will see no future donations from my husband and I, and I will encourage all my Republican friends to do the same, and shout it from the mountaintops on every conservative blog that no one should donate a dime to an RNC that doesn't have the time or inclination to circle the wagons around the woman who has been the brightest spot of light in this election.   

McCain's silence at these allegations has been deafening. Tell him to step up and defend the woman who, in this Republican voter's mind, is the only reason why he did not lose in a landslide.

50 Img: If he defends her, it makes her look weak.

Nonsense.

Since when does defending one's ally under attack make one's ally weak?

On the contrary, defending one's ally strengthens the ally's position.

51 I've changed my party affiliation to "decline to state" until the Republicans get their act together.  It's an almost meaningless token gesture, but it makes me feel good.  I'll continue support Sarah as an independent.

She, more than anyone, protected the Senate filibuster and prevented a BO landslide.  She accomplished more than anyone except BO in this election.  More McCain and the Rep leadership to stay silent is disgusting.

52
It's not McCain's silence that bothers me.

It's John Boehner's and Mitch McConnell's silence that really pisses me off. Where's the press conference on how we're going to win in the future? Where's the apology to the donators and volunteers and supporters?

53 I'm tired of the trying-to-find-the-bitchers games right now, actually. I never much liked McCain, so I don't care at this point what he decides to do -- he's dead for party-building, so whatever.

I like Palin, and I think she could take her time with regards to national politics. If she had another term as governor, and then got involved in party-building, and did well, no one is going to give a flying fuck about these lame ass stories.

54 You remember when you were a kid and they gave you that stuff to chew on that would highlight troubled areas on your teeth? This election has been like that for the republicans. RINO's are on their way to extinction.

McCain has no problem taking off his gloves when fighting a republican. This is John moving back into the good graces of the media. We can not afford half hearted republicans.

55

Yea, Politico is already calling his upcoming media blitz teh 'McCain rehab tour"

Rehab from his muted, pussy attacks on Obama.

Sad.

 

56 Maverick Muse @38:

I did see those interviews (I've got one linked at my blog, in fact. Ten minutes of glorious Cuda-ness.), and I too recall her asking for names and the gossip mongers' reporters' refusal to give any. The impression I took from it was "If I can't know who said it, then I can't answer it. So shove it." It's just a feeling I got that maybe she asked McCain not to say anything, believing that any denial or denunciation of his (former, I hope) aides on his part would be interpreted by the media as "just playing politics," that saying "no" means really saying "yes," thus fuelling the fire.

And you know that's just what the MSM would do.

I could be wrong. That's just the impression I took from it. For myself, I would like to see him say something, just because loyalty, friendship, and honor demand it.

57 Off topic for just a second.

Remember when Obama said "we can't keep driving our SUV's, eating anything we want, keep our thermostat at 72 deg--and have the rest of the world say--OK!"?

Looks like Chinese agree.
http://tinylink.com/?HJJXSMBIWz

58 Stop hating on John McCain. The man IS a conservative. There are problems with greed in the financial sector. There are people breaking the laws to make money, but states like NY and DE who profit from these companies will not enforce their laws. It's a phenomenon called the race to the bottom.

I am as sorry as anyone that we lost. But bagging on McCain is not the way. He might not have been your candidate in the primaries, but he was most of the Republican party's candidate. To question his conservatism is ridiculous. A Republican win given the Bush's approval ratings would have been a bloody miracle.

McCain would have had ZERO chance of winning if he spent money on that crap. In fact, I really think he hurt his chances with the late campaign Wright ads. It didn't matter for Hillary, it wasn't going to matter for him.

It makes me sick, though, how many people are bagging on McCain. He truly is a great man.

59 Average Jen,

Good letter!
Time to send one to Duncan, myself.

60 So write to Mike Duncan, RNC chair and let him know how you really feel. His email is chairman@gop.com.

The RNC will do jack shit for Sarah. Don't forget she took down their beloved Alaska state party chairman for corruption, defeated their incumbent governor, and opposed the primary opponents of those corrupt sacks of guts Don Young and Ted Stevens. The RNC despises Sarah.

61 No excuses for McCain - he has no problem blasting Bush (or religious conservatives in 2000), he's a grown man and does exactly what he wants. Get some stones GOP men.

62

Phineas #27 may have a point.

Far from being the illiterate hick of her caricature, Governor Palin is a smart politician with a deep and accurate sense of her constituents. Just watch her rallies. She may have a better 'feel' for the electorate than any other contemporary politician.  

None of the criticism seems especially damaging, long term. It's sorta gay, if you ask me. But it does bring GOP conservatives to her defense, infuses us with indignation, and keeps her in our minds and hearts. If, four years from now, conservatives have a unified choice for president, that candidate will win the nomination. And if Obama is as disastrous as we expect, Sarah Palin may well be his successor. 

63 Basket, building coalitions often means sacrificing principles.  Conservatives  do not want to sacrifice fundamentals principles which support self determination, life, liberty and freedom.

64 TMQ wake up from your dream world.

65 Posted by: katysdoorisbarred at November 08, 2008 11:26 AM (BLRy4)

Fuck you. You want to attack McCain as a politician fine, God knows I enjoy it more than most but leave the Vietnam shit out of it. Sight unseen I'm willing to be John McCain circa 1970 or so is tougher than you are in your wettest dreams.

In case I wasn't clear the first time, fuck you.

66 Maybe McCain thinks it's better for him not to get involved so that the story stays in the press?

67 DrewM, I feel good just reading that.

68 #28 "Then start your own party and leave us alone to form the coalitions needed to win elections. It's obvious you small minded morons like to lose."

You already have a party called the Democrats.

Which leg of the stool do you think needs to go? Fiscal conservatism? Your Republican Congress "spent money like John Edwards in a beauty parlor," to quote Mike Huckabee. Those Republicans lost their jobs, and the people who once supported them voted for Obama.

National security? You people are pragmatic and will switch when the wind changes. Obama can be talked into anything, if you're worried he's a dove.

Social conservatism? That looks like the answer. So, you're a religious bigot who identifies as pro-choice. This is the only issue that divides us from Dems and the core of the Republican party: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness through small government.

If winning is more important to you than principle, then join the Democrats. The Republican party platform is fine, and it just needs to stick to it.

69 Bill O'Reilly is a self-aggrandizing fuckstick. He airs and promotes these Sarah Palin smears, and then self-righteously claims "But this is news! We gave Sarah Palin the chance to come on and she refused." When all along they gave him the chance for an interview AND HE WAS THE ONE WHO CANCELLED IT!

This whole recent thing is blatant blackmail to get her to come on his show and boost his ratings. Screw that - he can continue fellating Obama without my viewership.

I am so furious with myself for buying his most recent book. I'm going to draw glasses, a moustache, and buckteeth on his cover picture, cut the book in half with my circle saw, and mail it to him.

70 I believe we should look forward.  There's so much work to be done before 2010.

News Alert:  How Obama Can Win Over the Media

Yeah, I'm not fucking kidding.

71 Maybe the Palin attacks are some sort of Machiavellian strategery.

It's being employed to cater to our basic instincts to protect the one unfairly attacked.

Rally round Palin.

Maybe I'm insane.

I agree Drew, Fuck Katy.

72

OT: I should never, ever read Spengler. But y'all should, so read this:

The world isn't flat, it's flattened

73 My problem with McCain is his desire to be popular with the press. I think if he would have been honest Lieberman was the person he wanted. He took Sarah for a ride.

TMQ and Drew are both right about character assaults. I just think we need to move away from guys like McCain.

74 Average Jen

You are so right.

I can't claim to have donated to the RNC because I saw that leadership spearheading progressive protagonists since Bush proved his national socialism and the RNC leaders formatted it for Bush.

Yes, Bush fought to defend the US against terrorists. Check. But the extent that Bush took the Patriot Act along with EVERY BAIL-OUT CONCEIVABLE proves Bush's presidency achieved progressive socialist goals, enabling Obama to go that much further now with no boundaries on the Secretary Treasurer and the majority in Congress.

It's sick.

During the primaries, we all discussed how imperative reforming the primary process is for conservatives to prevail. I am still for a single national primary election ballot so that ALL candidates are on the ballot, not just the richest. It is the conservative ideology that must prevail to counter balance liberalism. Let each candidate make his accomplishments and record known, and vote for the best, not necessarily the richest or the last one standing.

75

Posts #30 and #35 shut that basket fellow right the fuck up.

He's wrong but he's not stupid enough to keep fighting an argument he already lost. So he's got that going for him.

76 Lyle #62

Just the one on top of my head.

77 #58 Wright ads only hurt John McCain, because he ran them late in the game after he told the world he wasn't going to touch it. The RNC ran the ads, but it was seen as McCain. He opposed his party on this.

Even Barack Obama said it was a legitimate issue. The media dropped it after the lauded Great Race Speech, but Obama's favorables among Democrats in national polls tanked.

What hurt Hillary more than anything was the media screaming for her to get out right after Iowa was called. Her party had its knives out for her. In the end, she did what she was told and campaigned for Obama. I don't like her. The Wright issue absolutley helped her.

78

Guys, I would humbly suggest that Basket is an Axelturfer. I don't recall his familiar stench around here in the past. These Obots have nothing to do with their lives now that their guy has won, and without their daily dose of vitriol, they're somewhat lost.

tmi3rd

79 Who's quote is this?

"Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule."

This is our job as conservatives. I believe RINO's are rocks in our field. We must get ready to work hard and plant conservative ideas. The problem with the rino's is that they dilute the whole conservative message.

80

McCain picked Palin because she was female, and didn't bargain for the star power she brought with her. The only time he drew big crowds was when he was at her side. It's likely that he and his staff resented it.

McCain dislikes conservatives. In his upcoming Letterman and Leno interviews, he'll be far more gracious to Obama than to his former running mate.

Good. The more the losers distance themselves from Sarah Palin, the less she is tainted by their loss. She looks like the one winner on a team of losers. They are playing with themselves, and she is playing for the future. 

81 JD Hayworth should prepare to challenge McCain for the AZ Senate seat this next election cycle.

82 There's more than one way for McCain to stop the smears against Palin.  One would be to make a public denial but others have more than adequately discussed the problems with that approach.  One way that hasn't been mentioned is for McCain to have several of his staff out the leakers publicly.  What could be better than to turn they indignities they've tried to foist on Palin against them?

83

McCain is without honor.

 

84 1 basket, 0 balls

85 Then start your own party and leave us alone to form the coalitions needed to win elections.

How's that working out for you?

86 When I look back at McCain's discussion and "defense" of Sarah Palin during the campaign, I get more and more pissed off at his passive-aggressive bullshit. He used to defend her by saying she was in the PTA and a small-town mayor, for Christ's sake! He never would give any specifics of her gubernatorial accomplishments beyond the broadest strokes.

Also, here's Tucker Bounds weaselly ass "defending" Sarah during the campaign. Definitely a suspect.

87 I think in some ways this vindicates my guess that McCain was only using Palin and had they won she would have been shuffled off to nowhere land with little or no role in the actual administration. McCain is too arrogant to take advice from the new Governor of Alaska, if even she had managed to drag his RINO ass over the line. He's the Great McCain after all! What the hell does she have to advise him about?

He would never let this kind of shit go if he had picked Lieberman and they lost. He'd be out there defending his friend and his Mavericky pick.  Palin? Just a bumpkin chick from Alaska that he doesn't need any more.

Hell, he wants back in with the D.C. establishment so bad after their recent unpleasantness he's probably joining in the chorus, off the record of course.

88 Chill DrewM! It about "irony" not disrespect! McCain had a shot at righting the wrong that was done to him and he blew it. He had every opportunity and tool at his disposal and never sunk his teeth in the way the country needed him to most. His inability to see the enemy this time round and finally sqaure off with him has now meant that every DROP OF BLLOD THAT WAS SPILLED FOR THIS NATION GRIEVES ME NO END! BACK OF!

89 OFF!

90

Let's deal with the "War Hero" label first.

By way of bona-fides, let me say I have lived in Arizona for 16 years and have voted for John McCain before, I served in the U.S.Army 1966-68, I have been a Veteran's Benefits Counselor for 14 years. I am a registered Republican, but it was my Dad who introduced me to Barry Goldwater conservatism in 1963, and I embrace it to this day.

I have a friend who was a POW for 33 months during the Korean Conflict, and we both had as a friend a retired 1st Sergeant. This Sergeant earned, among other awards a CIB, (Combat Infantryman Badge) with two stars. He served in WWII, Korea, Vietnam with distinction. The Sergeant and the POW were consistently at odds about "surrender" during wartime. I never took sides, and now, when one has passed and the other struggles from his deprivation as a POW, I can't say which friend has won his point. Both men supported Veteran's causes in significant ways.

John McCain was a POW, and maybe a Hero, for perservering through his captivity. He is a retired Naval Officer, and a distinguished Veteran. At bottom however he is a man, and, as a man he is product of his birth into a military family, his education, his service to country, and his captivity and repatriation, and subsequently his life as a politician. God will judge him as we all shall be judged; with love and mercy, we pray.

As a man, John McCain needs to step forward and put an end to these commentaries on Sarah Palin. How, and when, he does this will only be the penultimate judgement of his character; the ultimate judgement will be his to face before his God.

My penultimate judgement: Be a man John, defend Sarah and do it now!

91

McCain is without honor.

 C'mon now....please, I don't like him not defending Palin but the man does know what honor is.

92

You earthlings did not know that John McCain is a member of the House of Duras?

Baqa!

 

93 McCain is at worst being petulant. OR he may even agree with some of the criticism of Palin, right or wrong.

However, no honor? Blog commenters -- anonymous blog commenters -- saying John McCain has no honor?

Fuck the hell off.

94

the man does know what honor is.

 

Of course he does. That makes it all the worse that he choses not to exercise it.

95

Here's part of a thank you letter L/C Russell sent me for my donations:

#4  You have all contributed to the development of a strong, grass roots base that is going to demand that our party stand against the status quo. You will no longer allow the Republican Party to not stand in opposition to the corruption of our economic development and political independence. --- The Party Caucus takes place soon ---- IT IS TIME TO TAKE BACK OUR PARTY!

 Emphasis his...sounds about right. 

96

Blog commenters -- anonymous blog commenters -- saying John McCain has no honor?

John McCan is not an honorable man. Look the word up before you babble on about the matter.

 

97 Posted by: katysdoorisbarred at November 08, 2008 12:29 PM (BLRy4

You can claim your first comment was 'ironic' or shorthand for your longer second comment but I don't see how any fair reading can come to any conclusion but that you were taking a slanderous shot at McCain's POW record.

As I've said, I enjoy going after Sen. McCain as much if not more than anyone but LCDR McCain and his service to our country is a whole different matter.

98 I hope y'all continue to believe your imbecile Sarah is the future of your party, if by "future," you mean "shitter."

!Sarah2020!!

99

100

>> LCDR McCain and his service to our country is a whole different matter.

Hear hear.  Absolutely.

101 Juan McAmnesty is just being a hypocrite.  He has an immense amount of honor, but he just forgot about it.

102 Bart:

Here's Boehner's missive.  Dunno about McConnell.

Note that Boehner is dumping all the other House-side losers (besides himself, if you want to include him) -- including Tom f'in Cole.

103

LCDR McCain

 

1) There is no LCDR McCain.

 

2) Brave soldiers are not neccessarily good people, let alone good guardians of the puplic trust. See e.g John McCain.

 

3) Honorable men do not leap to the defense of people like Hussein while tacitly encouraging the trashing of people who are (nominally a least)  their allies and supporters.  Given McCains long history of hatred for the right, does anyone really think that he's displeased with the manure being spread by his staff? Really? Honestly? Truly?

 

 

 

104 Here's Boehner's missive.

Boehner says all the right things, but the GOP leaders always say all the right things. He even personally lives up to some of them, like the no-earmarks thing. But it's not like he's doing much to stop others from violating our principles, and hasn't he opposed putting Jeff Flake into any kind of leadership position?

And throughout his missive there is not a single mention of The Bailout.

Sorry, Congressman Boehner. I think your intentions were good but you've been ineffective. Time to step down and let somebody else have a chance.

105

Just a few random thoughts:  All the Republicans did vote.  Those who stayed home aren't Republicans.  The campaign staff that leaked the lies about Sarah, and failed to stay on message should never work in a Republican campaign again.  The supposedly conservative media people who failed to support the ticket shouldn't have our support in the future.  GE and their subsidiaries can suck cocks in Hell. 

106

Posted by: DrewM. at November 08, 2008 12:39 PM (hlYel)

My apology for any service member who thought my comment was slander at McCain's service and suffering. It was not! I was ALL irony! Ironic that of all the men to run against this stealth communist dog, one would assume McCain would know how to fight him because he faced that evil up close and he didn't have the guts to knee cap O. The weight of the republic rested on his shoulders and he couldn't find it in him to use every available resourse angers me no end. Yes he was an honorable warrior 40 years ago.... and this time he had half the country behind him, and he broke.

107 worf, you obviously have no perspective on honor. People who voluntarily join our military do so because they believe in a cause greater than themselves. To EXIST in the military is to put check one's ego at the door to be a cog, not an individual. To sacrifice self-interest to protect the rights of others [be it countrymen or not] is the very manifestation of the word honor.

He doesn't have a long history of hating the right. That is just poop.

108

Well it's not like we didn't know he has an ego. But as John Cornyn will tell you, he really does know how to say "shut the fuck up". He needs to say it again.

You're right.

Shut the fuck up, Dave In Texas.

109 and he broke.

Can you elaborate on that portion of your comment?

What exactly are you trying to imply.

(Have to close off all mouse holes with this one)

110

#108, HAHAHA

 

He's already said it to me.  A lot.

111

He doesn't have a long history of hating the right. That is just poop.

 

Did you just start following politics two months ago? John McCain has a long history of hating the right. It goes back at least to his defeat in the 2000 primary. It has been on display for everyone to see on an almost daily basis ever since.

 

To sacrifice self-interest to protect the rights of others [be it countrymen or not] is the very manifestation of the word honor.

 

You have some very peciliar notions about why people join the mlitary. Why do I get the impression that you never served yourself?

 

And no, that is NOT what the word honor means. Don't they teach people the meanings of words in school anymore?

 

 

 

112

what about this possibility:  mccain and sarah have talked, and she asked him NOT to speak up for her, as she can and will handle it herself.  it would weaken her politically, and anyway..  she doesn't need him to stick up for her! 

given her history, i suspect she's much more comfortable speaking from outside the party..  challenging the status quo..  which is certainly what she's doing!

113 other actions we can take again the whiners include Operation Leper at http://www.redstate.com/..

114 One thing to remember.  Who would have been surprised if McCain had changed parties at any point over the last eight years (or at least until the Republican primaries)?

Anyone?  Anyone?

Worth remembering.

115 McCain is a Republican because being a Republican is what gets you elected in your home state after the legend Barry Goldwater retires

also to the GOP ... no more Senators as Presidential candidates

Republicans win when they are the outsiders who ride in from a distance very very far away from D.C.

that is our strength

116 It's your honor, your honor.

117

ok..  just caught up..  so i guess i agree with #27 phineas in many respects though probably not all..  and some other posters:  she's in a great position to be the anti-obama for the next 4 years..  leader of the conservative criticism.. 

i really hope, though, that in choosing her interviews she tells oprah to go to hell!  lets her ratings continue to decline until she's off the air..

118 Bart:
Here's Boehner's missive.

Thanks. I read it. It's great but I feel the same way as Jim62sch.

Boehner says all the right things, but the GOP leaders always say all the right things. He even personally lives up to some of them, like the no-earmarks thing. But it's not like he's doing much to stop others from violating our principles, and hasn't he opposed putting Jeff Flake into any kind of leadership position?

And throughout his missive there is not a single mention of The Bailout.

Sorry, Congressman Boehner. I think your intentions were good but you've been ineffective. Time to step down and let somebody else have a chance.

For the last two years, Boehner has not been very vocal with his opposition. The Democrats seemed to find a camera every single day when they were in the minority and rip the Republicans. I want to see Boehner on C-SPAN every day hammering the Pelosi and the Democrats.

119 what about this possibility...mccain and sarah have talked, and she asked him NOT to speak up for he

I just don't think this makes sense.  There's no reason why they both can't speak up, and she can certainly be the more vocal.  It makes him look really bad to stay silent, and they're both smart enough to realize that.  At least Sarah is, which is why I can't imagine she'd insist upon his silence.

120

If we make the bailout the deciding factor then we have to toss a lot of people, including Shadegg and Cantor.

 

 

121 Hope this sticks.

The future.

122 Hope this sticks means the post not what's in it....

123

Kensington:  right!  it makes HIM look bad, not her!  what does she give a fuck?  SHE'S the one that attracts the crowds, connects with the people, understands their frustrations, and saved his ass from the losing end of a landslide! 

did margaret thatcher need anyone to stick up for her?

i say, let her go with it!  i LOVE hearing her speak the truth plainly.. whether it's in connection with the leakers, or the issues, or obama, or anything else..  i'm SICK AND TIRED of being told lies in the media..  the media are clearly stalin-esque:  if you keep repeating a lie long enough, it becomes the truth..

until someone like sarah comes along..

124 I worked on McCain's campaign in 2000. I think I remember a little something about it thankyouverymuch. I remember the Bush machine completely steamrolling him with a smear campaign that would put the Obama machine to shame.

And no, while I have never personally served in the military, I am steeped in it. I have neighbors and students who have been maimed and killed. The community in which I live is entirely military and it is the common thread that unites them.

As for defining the word honor, there is an element of the definition that relies on third person assessment of the trait. There are enough people who consider service to country over self as inherently honorable to make it so. I suggest that you do to the looking up.

125 As for McCain sticking up for Sarah with respect to campaign, I suggest reading Bill Kristol's pieces advising McCain to fire his entire campaign.

126 *cough* football *cough*

#1 Alabama @ LSU  2:30 CT

127 Okay, you want to take a walk down memory lane?

Remember the Straigh Talk Express? Yeah that was a bunch of horseshit. His "straight talk" was to criticize his fellow Republican candidates. McCain was poison to the GOP and that's the only reason he got some friendly press coverage.

The whole thing in South Carolina was blown way way out of proportion. The media pumped that story and fueled the flames between McCain and Bush. And I recall Bush apologizing for it. Still waiting for McCain's apology.

128

 I remember the Bush machine completely steamrolling him with a smear campaign that would put the Obama machine to shame.

You have a very defective memory if you think that you "remember" that.

 

 

Honor or Honour .... (from the Latin word honos, honoris) is the evaluation of a person's trustworthiness and social status based on that individual's espousals and actions. Honour is deemed exactly what determines a person's character: whether or not the person reflects honesty, respect, integrity, or fairness.

 

Is John McCain trustworthy? I trust him to "reach across the aisle" to his "good friends" in the Democratic Party on all the important issues. I trust hm to be far more respectful towards the Democrats than to the members of what is, supposedly, his own party. I trust him to be completely unfair to Republicans, from the President all the way down to the average voter. I trust him to be dishonest about his commitment to border security and fiscal conservatism.  I trust him to take every action with one eye towards winning fawning praise from the New York Times. I trust him to stick up for Obama, and to stick a knife in Palins back.

 

I trust him to do these things because he's been doing them constantly over the last eight years

129

I remember the Bush machine completely steamrolling him with a smear campaign

 

That is what Capt. Queeg and the rest of his paranoid mouth-foamers from 2000 would have everyone believe, so as to detract from the fact that, even then, he was running for the Democratic nomination in the Republican primaries.  But like the McCain-encouraged Bush Degrangement Syndrome, this too is total crap.

I know that the Maverick, by definition, likes to believe that he is the only one in the entire universe that knows what should be done, but the fact is that, like most ass-hat narcissists, he is almost always 180 degrees wrong.  And that is why he lost in 2000.  And that is why it was clear, to any who has eyes to see, that McCain was going to be the utter DISASTER that would bring us all to ruin.

 

 

130 If we don't get names soon, EVERY McCain staffer should be considered culpable. EVERY McCain staffer should be shut out of future political work. EVERY McCain staffer should be publicly vilified.

And if McCain doesn't speak up by Tuesday (I'm probably being too charitable), he should be dumped on the same political scrap heap.

We won't lose anything when we dump these losers. Politicians and political staffers are a dime a dozen. There's no such thing as an indispensable political staffer. But political candidates that have the charisma and integrity to touch a wide range of people at the most basic level only come along once in a generation.

131 Go Tigers!  the only way bama can win is with LSU's former coach!  hahahaha..

132

As for McCain sticking up for Sarah with respect to campaign, I suggest reading Bill Kristol's pieces advising McCain to fire his entire campaign.

 

What does Bill Kristols piece have to do with McCain? I'm glad that Kristol, a huge McCain fan, recognises that what's happening is not acceptable. But the question is, does McCain think that way? The evidence suggests otherwise.

133 hey IllTemperedCur, let me refer you to Operation Leper at http://www.redstate.com/..  you sound like a good candidate for this..

134

Posted by: JavaJoe at November 08, 2008 01:07 PM (Am6n/)

 

Uh... he gave up, cracked under presure. What are you trying to imply? His campaign imploded long before the election was over and the proof is what is happening now with his staff and the Palin fiasco.

Any more holes you think I can run to? lemme know

135

I worked on McCain's campaign in 2000

 

And you're a self-described neo-con. I'd hazard a guess that the things McCain has done which pissed the rest of us off, you approved of.

136

#104

right on! Boehner has to go, he is just saying what he knows the base wants to hear.

#105

i stayed home, i said back when McLame won the nomination that i would not vote for him because he is not a conservative, and you're right about another thing, I don't consider myself a Republican, i don't give a shit about the future of the Party, i care about smaller government, less regulation, individual rights, and individual responsiblity

137

And now it is those same Maverick sycophant ass-hats who are behind the anti-Palin smears.  Not the Romney folks, not the Huckabee folks.  McCain operatives.  That's who.

It was clear from Day One that they had nothing but total contempt for Sarah Palin.  From the very beginning, they saw how much more popular Sarah Palin was than Jurassic McCain.  But instead of riding that horse to victory, like the elite sh*t-for-brain geniuses they are, because she outshone him, they started plotting to suppress her and muzzle her.  And now they are blaming her for their own infinite shortcomings -- because that's what know-better-than-everyone Mavericks do and because, elites that they are, hating real people is what they do.

138 Why is reaching across the aisle a bad thing again?

Worf- I'm sorry, I wasn't writing clearly with respect to bringing up the Kristol piece. I brought it up only to point out how McCain's campaign was a known trainwreck prior to election day. That is all.

139

All of you who reference McCain’s military service and his being a POW as “proof” of his honor are missing a major point. That was 40 years ago. I too am a Nam vet but I don’t go around spouting it as a qualification for “honor”. Sure he had honor then, but as my old bosses used to say when I gave good work during the year, sure you did that for us then but what have you done today?

 

That is the crux of the matter. IN 2006 he had an ACU rating of 65. That is the second lowest rating for a Republican on the site. There are Democrats that have a higher rating!  And on top of that, its not just the rating that is the problem, it’s the things he defied the party on. He and the RINOs like him are responsible for a LOT of the defeats that GWB had that make Bush look to be so liberal. Nearly ALL of the major conservative legislation that Bush promoted that went down in defeat was due to McCain et al. The tax cuts wound up being “temporary”, no drilling in ANWR or the coast, the SS fix, Gang of 14 that got no judges we wouldn’t have got anyway. McCain-Fiengold (and look what that got us).  The list is endless.

 

Let’s face it, McCain is a liberal and a RINO who was proud to “stick it too conservatives” in the name of maverickness. And if he fails to stop this back-biting on Sarah he has no honor in 2008 and he can KMA.

140

Andy McCathy:

Sen. McCain did not allow a nanosecond to go buy without issuing a sanctimonius, full-throated condemnation of any Republican who dared use Sen. Obama's middle name, mention Jeremiah Wright, or otherwise trash The One.

So where is the vigorous defense of his running-mate? 

I'm sorry Obama won, but I'm not weeping that we won't have these fabulously honorable guys running the place — and running down their own — for the next four years. 

141 I am most definitely a neocon. Neocons like McCain. Maybe you should look up the meaning of neocon.

142

Last time I checked, being someone who served honorably in the military doesn't give that person a pass on how they behaved after they muster out.

Folks might want to ask Duke Cunningham how that worked out, just to name one example.

143 I got the Russell Brigade email today, too. I hope I get some more emails from him, if Russell is going to be doing political organization, esp. with regards with what he had to say about coal.

For all the "woe is us" whinery, I think with the Rahm Emanuel pick Obama has broadcast he only cares about the power, not so much the ideology (just like Bill Clinton).  That provides several opportunities to get what we want, I think.

But hey, I'm a moron. What do I know.

144 Why is reaching across the aisle a bad thing again?

Are you a fucking dunce or a just a child? Do you really need this explained to you?

145 the only way bama can win is with LSU's former coach!

Word.  But I'll take it anyway if we are so lucky.  A win give us a lock on the Western Divison title. 

And Bama is capitalized, fool  ;-)

146 And why all of the personalization to me? Seriously. I have not attacked you whatsoever. I'm sorry you are miserable about the election and the state of the party. Go kick some cans and feel better.

147 Fucking Bender is 100% right:

And now it is those same Maverick sycophant ass-hats who are behind the anti-Palin smears. Not the Romney folks, not the Huckabee folks. McCain operatives. That's who.

148 O/T Billy Graham wants to pray with Obama.  Did the"Three cheers! There is no God!" group ever say they wanted to hoist a few with Bush?

149 Mac is dead to me.  I respect his service, and I don't mind the normal platitudes.  But his treatment of Palin smacks of a one-night stand.  Yeah, it's politics, but she added a lot to the ticket.  His smarmy staff decided to trash her (or someone did), and they're not rushing to defend her - least of all Mac.  Hey, we're used to this crap from him.  He's a bitter man after losing in previous presidential runs, and he's taking it out on the party, especially conservatives.  Hope he retires soon.  He's lost it.

150

worf, @#135: And you're a self-described neo-con. I'd hazard a guess that the things McCain has done which pissed the rest of us off, you approved of.

You may want to do some reading on what "neocon" actually means.

151 Do you kiss your brother with that mouth?

152

Why is reaching across the aisle a bad thing again?

Priceless.

Well, it's a not a bad thing if you believe that the Democrats have all the best ideas, as McCain does.

Sure, why not borrow from the left  their brilliant ideas on global warming, on free speech, on guns, on immigration, on taxes, etc etc.

If you're going to "reach across the aisle" that much, why not get up, walk across the aisle, and sit down? But I guess you can't pose as being a bipartisan mavrick to the cheers of the MSM if you do that.

153

You may want to do some reading on what "neocon" actually means.

 

I know what it "really means", far better than you it seems.

154 Maybe you should look up the meaning of neocon.

I've been a Conservsative for a long long time and I still don't know what a neocon is. The moonbats say that a neocon is an ardent Zionist and capitalist who believes in nothing else.

I think a neocon is nothing more than a moderate Democrat and a war hawk.

155 Hmmmm.

Hey McCain in 2012 dudes!

What was it that so many Republicans called him about 9+ months ago?

Oh yeah ... electable.  Because he'll bring in all those moderates, independents, hispanics and people who generally oppose conservatism.

And now look at that whole "honor" thing.

what a crock.

156 70:

That article on How Obama can win over the media is unreal. Do those sycophantic toadies really think that they haven't been up his anal cavity the whole time? With CBS being one the most biased for Barry.

As Bush knows from his own experience, Obama won't always have the media in the palm of his hand. He should take advantage of every opportunity.

When did Bush have the media in the palm of his hand?

157

I am most definitely a neocon.

I'd noticed.

 

Neocons like McCain.

Get out! Pro-war liberals like a pro-war liberal? Who'd have thunk it?

 

Maybe you should look up the meaning of neocon.

I don't need to.

158 And we wonder why our party alienated voters this year...

159 139

All of you who reference McCain’s military service and his being a POW as “proof” of his honor are missing a major point. That was 40 years ago. I too am a Nam vet but I don’t go around spouting it as a qualification for “honor”. Sure he had honor then, but as my old bosses used to say when I gave good work during the year, sure you did that for us then but what have you done today?

 

That is the crux of the matter. IN 2006 he had an ACU rating of 65. That is the second lowest rating for a Republican on the site. There are Democrats that have a higher rating!  And on top of that, its not just the rating that is the problem, it’s the things he defied the party on. He and the RINOs like him are responsible for a LOT of the defeats that GWB had that make Bush look to be so liberal. Nearly ALL of the major conservative legislation that Bush promoted that went down in defeat was due to McCain et al. The tax cuts wound up being “temporary”, no drilling in ANWR or the coast, the SS fix, Gang of 14 that got no judges we wouldn’t have got anyway. McCain-Fiengold (and look what that got us).  The list is endless.

 

Let’s face it, McCain is a liberal and a RINO who was proud to “stick it too conservatives” in the name of maverickness. And if he fails to stop this back-biting on Sarah he has no honor in 2008 and he can KMA.

---------------------

 

+10

160

McCain is not totally stupid.  He knows that the votes cast for the Republican Ticket were Palin Motivated.  His silence is out of order.  McCain's silence is as bad as Fox News telling O'Reilly and Hannity to tone it down.  The fact that Fox showed no fear is what made them successful.  The fact that McCain picked Palin is what made him attractive.

There is something brewing in this land and my hope is that we will wake up  one day and say where the hell did they come from.  It may not happen tomorrow, but it is coming and there will be not a thing to stop it.  God Bless America.....

161 How many Obama Promises will be kept?

Healthcare coverage for 20 million uninsured
Leaving Iraq immediately
Tax breaks for 95 percent of Americans
Closing down Gitmo
Getting OBL
Fighting terrorism more effectively
More economic aid for nations in need
Protecting American jobs here in America
increase wages (minimum wage increase)
Protecting our environment (signing kyoto)
Simplify the tax code
Drilling and self dependency (spending billions in alternative fuels)
Fixing Medicare/Medicaid
Fixing Social Security
help Americans get "fair" mortgage rates
Make trade more "fair"
Bring down perscription drug prices
direct talks with Iran to resolve our issues with this nation
Pouring thousands of more troops into Afghanistan
being better at government spending
Keep over 1 million Americans from losing their job
controlling the debt
go after credit card compainies that charge fraudulant rates
to get the economy back on its feet
fixing our trade deficit with Chinese and ending their unfair deflationary practices on this money system also fixing NAFTA
solving the Israeli/Palestinian issue
Create 5 million new "green" jobs
spend 60 billion on new infastructure
Make the world love us again
more volunteer organizations and groups to help other nations
reduce tax relief for small businesses

162

Lieberman is a Neocon, con on the war and ultra-liberal on everything else. Neocons are disaffected Democrats who left the Dem party and became Republicans because of the insane policy Dems have on foreign policy.

163

hey toby928, are the alumni under control this time?  or are there NCAA violations just waiting to be revealed?  and, no, bama is NEVER capitalized in my house! ;-) 

go Tigers!

AND, i totally agree with #137, #139, #147:  sarah palin is the politician with the special gifts of connecting with people..  she'll be fine!  if those staffers want to make fools of themselves, let them!  but i do think it's important to starve those people work-wise..  boycott them as much as we can..

164 And here it is.

Most of you heard this before, but listen to it again. It's a very short clip.

Sickening.

165

And we wonder why our party alienated voters this year

 

Let me guess: you think it was because it's been taken over by right-wing extremists.

I think it's because it's been taken over by pro-war liberals.

 

 

166 i know the RINO's are loath to admit it, but the GOP can not win an election without the unabashed support of the conservative base. this tactic of going for the middle and hoping the base tags along is defunct, it does NOT work! give us real conservatives to vote for or learn to love have no power.

167

What was it that so many Republicans called him about 9+ months ago?

They too are dead meat, all those previous non-McCain Republicans who insisted that he was the "most electable" and that we have to abandon the other candidates to rally around McCain.

They have to answer for their part in bringing this disaster upon us.

Anyone who was officially in the McCain campaign, anyone who was an early McCain cheerleader, any piece-of-crap elite (yeah, you Peggy Noonan), any Tapeworm Republican -- all of you:  GONE.

168 And here's that fucking Romney smearing McCain.

What a jerk!

Wait.

What?

169 Finally, here is a great (

170

TMQ, I notice that you did not jump up to vehemently rebut my guess that "the things McCain has done which pissed the rest of us off, you approved of".

 

171 Finally, here is a great (and short clip) of Newt and Laura Ingraham predicting the future. They were 100% right back in February and they're even more right today.

TMQ is dead wrong. If we listen to TMQ, the GOP is finished.

172

What was it that so many Republicans called him about 9+ months ago?

i confess, i thought that myself before palin came along..  he really has been a thorn in our side for a long time but i really did think he had the best chance..  all the others (romney, huckabee etc) were about as appealing as yesterday's mashed potatoes..  the situation looks difference in retrospect..

173 2 words: President Obama.

In spite of what I'm seeing here, you guys are gonna have to face the reality.  The Republicans have to move to the center big time to rebuild their party.  In fact I predict the GOP will never win another presidential election until they nominate a pro choice president.  The Republicans cannot win an election when they concede 150 electoral votes before it even starts.  And to reverse this, the Republicans needs a socially LIBERAL candidate who can appeal to voters in California, New York, Minnesota, etc.  The funny thing is if John McCain of 2008 was the John McCain people knew from 1999-2006, he might have won.

174 Which of the many things that pissed everyone off? I was pissed about the way he handled the bailout. PISSED. I have mixed feelings about his stance on immigration. On the one hand, it smacks of xenophobia, on the other, it's a HUGE economic crisis. I don't have the answer, but I think it's more complicated than just building a wall. How's that?

I loved his choice of Palin. I like both of them, I don't think that liking one precludes liking the other.

There are no perfect answers. I wish there were. I'm not saying McCain was a perfect candidate. Not in the slightest. But he is a honorable person and doesn't deserve the bashing.

What issues [because there were a lot] that pissed you off specifically? It's probably if I address them one by one.

It feels like I'm being "jumped" to prove my conservative bona fides. It's kind of funny.

175 Two words, Lizzie: Fuck off.

He is not President Obama ... yet. Anyone who can sit in a church for 20 years and listen to Wright, have questionable associations with terrorists, terrorist supports and criminals, can't even get security clearance, lies out his ass, etc. will never be "my" president.

#161 Healthcare is already off the table according to Botox Nancy.

176

I can predict the future too-

If the RNC does not close all primaries in 4 years, the same garbage is going to occur again.

The Democrats, Independants and RINO's are going to pick our candidate and he/she will lose.

Close our Primaries- now!

177
I've got two words for the troll: Voter fraud

Two more: stolen election

And two more: illegitimate presidency

178

John McCain had a duty to country to defend his fellow repubs , to name the names complicit in the Fannie and Freddie mess that precipitated the greatest financial crisis of our lifetime!

He had the duty as party standard bearer to take the fight to Obama and expose him as the far left socialist he is by airing  Obamas' past associations including his racist Rev. Wright!

He has a duty to defend the honor of the Governor of Alaska he brought on board his campaign and who almost single handedly rescued him from a defeat of unimaginable proportions!

In all instances John McCain has been AWOL and shown a derelection of duty. However Honorable he may have been in the distant past he has been anything but in recent memory. 

I wouldn't doubt he will join the Obama team.  I sincerely hope so he has done enough damage to the Republican Party and John while your at it take a 1/2 dozen or so RINO's with you! 

179 Fuck McCain. Even when he was right on the surge (in theory), he still would have dicked up the details.

In fact I predict the GOP will never win another presidential election until they nominate a pro choice president.

El Oh El. Sweet, sweet, idiocy.

180

The funny thing is if John McCain of 2008 was the John McCain people knew from 1999-2006, he might have won.

Lizzie, you are totally detached from reality -- either intentionally or delusionally.  When people are presented with the choice of voting for a Democrat or a Republican liberal, they are going to choose the Dem every time.

Had McCain run from the left, even more that he did, he would not have won.  Instead, Obama would have received the 63 million votes he got (or however many he got), while McCain would have received about three votes.  Not three million, three votes.  Had McCain run even more from the left, the entire Republican base would have stayed home.

181

King of all Douchebags, Sean Penn, outdoes himself in outing Obama as an anti-American radical:

“I have never been able to put the word ‘my’ before president before,” he added, prompting loud applause from the British-American film industry crowd that also honored actors Tilda Swinton and Don Cheadle and director Stephen Frears.

His father, the big C communist who supported Hitler (?!?!!) when Stalin told him to, would have been proud as well.

182 However Honorable he may have been in the distant past he has been anything but in recent memory.

What have you done for us lately, John?

183 "...if John McCain of 2008 was the John McCain people knew from 1999-2006, he might have won."

Thanks, go on: have another swig of that Kool-Aid.  McCain is McCain, good, bad or indifferent.  The only difference is that McCain in 2000 was the media's darling and 2008 they'd moved on to their new messiah.

184

And, why the hell, Lizzie, would I want a pro-abortion president of any party??  The Republican Party is not a club.  It is not "our" team.

It is merely a vehicle by which to get things done, to fix real problems.  Not to merely elect "our guys," but to effect real solutions in a society that is now swirling down into the bowl.

185

#161 Healthcare is already off the table according to Botox Nancy.

where did you hear that?

186

The MOST OBVIOUS explanation is that the people who would normally bring this to his attention for ASAP action...are the same ones doing the CYA backstabbing.

Of course, while McCain probably doesn't surf cable news and the web for the latest political buzz, it's hard to believe he isn't aware of what's going on.

187 I'm just trying to help you guys.  The abortion debate is a settled issue in the hearts and minds of voters.  Why do you think the Democrats always win the female vote overwhelmingly?  Seems silly that so called libertarian conservatives pick this one issue to not be a libertarian conservative.

McCain's use air quotes to belittle the health of the woman during a pregnancy during the 3rd debate exemplifies the issue.  You will never win those 150 electoral votes (Cal, NY, NJ, NE, Wash, Ore, Min, etc) with this problem.  All a Democrat has to do is figure out how to get another 120.

And Obama can do that in his sleep.  Looking forward to 8 years of it!!

188

Dave - that's true. McCain didn't change. He was always pretty solid on foreign policy, decent at taking a stand against pork belly horseshit but otherwise dreadful on domestic policy.

Only difference is the Messiah's media wattage overwhelmed anything McCain ever had from the media.

189

Well, Lizzie, some of us would rather serve in heaven, than to reign in hell.

Good luck with that.

190

That Newt video was amazing wasn’t it. He is a smart SOB and predicted the entire thing. That being said, he doesn’t have a lot of room to talk because he endorsed the Albore AGW scam himself.

191

#173

socially liberal repubs have been the downfall of the party, what won us the Senate, and House back in 94 were conservative ideas, Dubya won in 2000 and 04 because the base believed he was a conservative, now i'm not saying that there isn't room in the party for pro-choicers, but the GOP can not afford to alienate the pro-lifers who make up the vast majority of the party, the last two elections have proven that the GOP's lurch to left has failed miserably.

McCain didn't lose because he didn't get enough independents (fence-squatters, or "jurors" if you will)

McCain lost because he didn't bring out the base, an excited base creates energy, momentum, the fence-squatters feel it and jump on the bandwagon.

spin all you want little RINO but this is truth 

192

Seems silly that so called libertarian conservatives pick this one issue to not be a libertarian conservative.

 

Aborton has noting to do with libertarianism. And you totalitarian Obamunists have zero business trying to lecure anyone about libertarianism. I suppose you know that the Soviet Unon, that bastion of libertarian thought, guaranteed the right to abortion? China actually requires it!

Now go and sign up for the Obama Jugend like a good little girl.

 

 

193

The only names John McCain ever cared to name were his fellow Republicans.

 McCain is a Democrat wrapped in Republican hides and forced upon us by a clueless RNC and blueblood Country Club Republicans who couldn't stand the thought of Mitt or Rudy representing the Grand Old Party.

Hoisted on their own petard by the engineer of Campaign Finance Reform and Amnesty.

If it weren't so tragic it would be hysterically funny.

Time to take the party and the country back with a bunch of real American citizens willing to serve, not a batch of career politicians pandering to wherever it is politically expedient for them to do so.

PALIN/PLUMBER 2012

194 To #173 "Lizzie -

Gal, you're living in la-la land and obviously don't know much about the electorate and how people vote. I recommend you take some time and study grassroots supporters, their vote, and their volunteerism.

195 ...socially fiscally liberal repubs have been the downfall of the party

fixed

196 To the Eeyore who said this - "It may not happen tomorrow, but it is coming and there will be not a thing to stop it."

I'm here to stop it. Palin's here to stop it. Jindal's here to stop it. And millions of others you've yet to hear from.

Quit your whining and get to work!

197

Why do you think the Democrats always win the female vote overwhelmingly? 

Correction. They always win the "single" female vote, sweetheart.

Draw your own conclusio starting...now.

198 Please answer for me one simple question: what is the core philosophy that motivates John McCain’s actions? What are his principles?

199 "conclusio,"above, is Italian for conclusion.

200 I think people are confused as to what issues are the base issues of the Republican party. The base issues of the Republican party have been individual rights and free markets--not social conservatism. Social conservatism came from the Southern Democrats who Nixon appealed to as part of his election strategy. It was brilliant at the time, but is problematic now in that it has created a divide between the free market less government R's and the social conservative R's. Less government does not equal more government protection over individual liberty.

For clarification purposes, the only social conservative issue that can ben considered in keeping with the Republican party's focus on individual rights is the pro-life stance.

201 cj 197 -

There are single conservative women out there. Don't insult them.

202 2012 is a referendum on the incumbent.  Obama won this year by winning the squishy middle.  It doesn't take much to get them to turn on you, and then you just lost OH, FL, VA, NC, MO, FL, and CO.  Even if the Republican is pro-life, the squishy middle won't care, and they decide elections. 

203

#200

when the GOP was a party of the north and northeast (many years ago) that was our main platform, but the GOP is no longer that party, we are now the party of the South and the rural areas, and the ppl who live in the South and rural areas are social conservs and they hate over-educated-smug-ass elites

204 You cannot pander to the moderates!

The Democrats don't bother for a very good reason.

Why?

The moderates are anti-abortion and pro-abortion, support free-trade and protectionist, pro-immigration and favour amnesty. They believe in a strong defence and think we need to reduce military spending and stop being militaristic. They want smaller government and expanded social programs.

The only one who could pander to the bewildering array of opinions found in the moderate group would be a lying shit-weasel and people tend to sniff them out.

I mean what the hell is a moderate? Can anyone give me a definition?

205 fark: that last line was supposed to read:

The concept of less government does not agree with more government protection over a conservative social mandate.

I went to rewrite something while i was rewriting that sentence. That is why it doesn't make sense. LOL

206 shoey - you are very right about that.

207

I said this yesterday and I’ll repeat it today. There is a lot more to being a conservative than being anti-abortion. In order to be a so-called social conservative you have to be a conservative first. A Catholic priest who favors amnesty, socialism, and is anti-abortion would hardly be called a “social conservative” would he?

 

To me a conservative is someone who believes in individual freedom, respect for the Constitution as it is written, and a strong national defense. The respect for the Constitution, as written, takes in a lot of the issues that conservatives favor such as abortion, gun control et al. To me Roe v Wade is simply bad law and should be reversed primarily due to the fact that there was NEVER in justification for the ruling to begin with. The issue should be returned to the States.

 

People who are opposed to abortion but are liberal in other aspects are not social-cons. Huckabee is a prime example of someone in that category.

208 The unfortunate thing is that, as a country, we are becoming more and more educated [it's not just relegated to the North and Northeast anymore] and those same principles do not apply as can be seen by the blue wins in the south. We need to go back to focusing on the old school big versus small government debate. That is where we win.

209 Right on Vic.

210

I mean what the hell is a moderate? Can anyone give me a definition?

 

There is no such thing as a moderate. A moderate is a liberal in denial. You can’t be a little bit liberal. It’s like being a little bit pregnant.

211 I'm not saying that education is unfortunate, the stance against so-called smug educated elites is unfortunate.

212

The base issues of the Republican party have been individual rights and free markets--not social conservatism.

 

When was those ever the base issues of the Republican Party? Seriously, I'd like you to give me a year.

 

a divide between the free market less government R's and the social conservative R's

 

Where are these "free market less governemnt R's" who reject socal conservatism? I think that all five of them could fit in a phone booth.

 

Since you clearly have not been paying attention, the social conservative part of the GOP's agenda is the only part whch has any real public support.  The pro-war and free trade parts are radioactive with the public, and even with many Republicans.

 

213

TMQ

It looks like we do agree on something.

214

the stance against so-called smug educated elites is unfortunate.

 

Why is that?

215 TMQ doesn't understand that one of the ways the Left is destroying America is with their phony social progressive agenda -- gay marriage, hate crime laws, affirmative action, no control over immigration, etc.

Being for small government doesn't mean that we should allow a radical anti-American-culture-agenda to pass.

216 I think we agree on more than you think. No doubt some of you have looked at my blog and wondered if I'm some sort of liberal because I call myself a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is not American liberalism. In fact, it is just the opposite. I think that could why some people are jumping down my throat.

217

I am familiar with classical liberalism, which in today's terms wold be called a libertarian (small L).

I fit in that category

218 You are against hate crime laws? Are you serious? LMFAO

219

there is a difference between those who go to Harvard and Princeton and those who go to their local State University, The Ivy League-ers are their own seperate nation almost, they all stick together, they all watch each others backs, whether they call themselves libs or conservs, their first alligance is to their own and they have nothing but contempt and disdain for anyone who comes out of... let's say Idaho State.

it has become a war between the elites and the commoners, how far will it go? 

220

The concept of less government does not agree with more government protection over a conservative social mandate.

 

I've parsed that sentence several times and I'm still not sure what it's supposd to mean.

 

America used to be a much more socially conservative country. By a remarkable coincidence, it also used to be a much more small-government country. It's transformaton into a big government country coincided exactly with it's becoming more socially liberal.

This occured for reasons which are blindingly obvious to everybody but TMQ and the "neocons".

 

 

221

Moderate republicans love to point out that Goldwater got trounced in 64 so running as conservative won't work.

But LBJ had the Kennedy sympathy vote and Vietnam wasn't cutting against him too much. Goldwater was always a huge underdog.

So if Goldwaters campaign is viewed as an outlier, when exactly in the last 44 years has a truly conservative nominee from the GOP lost?

How many moderate, kinder, gentler republican candidates lost?

Ford

Bush 41

Dole

McCain

see a pattern

222

-- gay marriage, hate crime laws, affirmative action, no control over immigration

 

I am not sure I would classify those as “social progressive”. Gay marriage is probably the only one that fits that category. The rest are typical liberal unconstitutional agenda items.

223

You are against hate crime laws? Are you serious? LMFAO

 

You're a loon.

224 You are against hate crime laws? Are you serious? LMFAO

Posted by: TMQ at November 08, 2008 03:42 PM (aMu45)

Yeah!

When you assault, rape or murder someone how can that not be defined as hate? So why the fuck should you get a double whammy because of skin colour?

225

Bart, @#154: I've been a Conservsative for a long long time and I still don't know what a neocon is. The moonbats say that a neocon is an ardent Zionist and capitalist who believes in nothing else.

I think a neocon is nothing more than a moderate Democrat and a war hawk.

No.  It's a conservative who believes in an interventionist foreign policy.  As opposed to isolationist paleocons, i.e. Pat Buchanan.  So for worf to lump all neocons in with John McCain is, well, wrong.  But, you know, good luck getting him to change his mind.

 

cj, @#197: Correction. They always win the "single" female vote, sweetheart.

Actually, they always win the *black* female vote.

If African-Americans voted in anything resembling balance, Republicans would win the female vote.  But because blacks typically vote Dem by 9-1 or more, that's enough to skew the female vote as well.

226 I suppose I can come out of the McCain costume now.

227

No doubt some of you have looked at my blog and wondered if I'm some sort of liberal because I call myself a classical liberal

 

I'm wondering why you call youself both a classical liberal AND a neocon.

 

Anyway, I hate the term "classical liberal". The actual classical liberals of the 18th and 19th centuries had very different beliefs than the people calling themselves that today. 

228 You are against hate crime laws?

Wow you're all over the map, TMQ. What happened to your conservative bona fides?

Do you not like the 1st Amendment? So-called Hate Crime laws are a direct infringement on free speech. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that.

There are already laws on the books protecting people from violence -- they've been there for, well, forever. Why on earth would we need laws protecting people from hate speech? What kind of shit is that?

And why do we need special laws if a black man kills a white man, or vice-versa? That's Leftist crap; you're a fucking dunce for not recognizing that.

229 Well, if hate crime laws bother you so much, go to your local legislator and tell them to take them off the books. That's how they got there. Get a group of people together and do something about it.

230

It's a conservative who believes in an interventionist foreign policy.  As opposed to isolationist paleocons, i.e. Pat Buchanan. 

No, that is not what a neocon is. By that moronic definition, Ronald Reagan was a neocon. So is George Bush.

Neocons were and are pro-foreign-interventionist liberals. Jeane Kirkpatrick was an early example.

231 There is no absolute right to free speech in our country, Bart. There never has been and there is much evidence that the framers did not intend it to be that way. Prurient speech and speech that is likely to incite violence has no protection in our country. It never has and, God willing, never will.

232 Incite, you are moron now. LOL

233

Well, if hate crime laws bother you so much, go to your local legislator and tell them to take them off the books.

 

You're cool with hate crimes laws? And you whine that that "social cons" are not small government enough for you?

 

As I say, you're a loon.

234

As I have said before, I agree with Hackworth (Ten Silver Stars and 78 combat awards) who said that McCain was a tough survivor, but no hero.  I compare him to my relatives, POW's in WWII, who suffered more than McCain, with no medals.  There are thousands like them (Bataan Death March).

The military heroes that I know would never - under any circumstances - make hero ad's to run for office, out of respect for those who didn't make it back.  This goes for double for George H.W. Bush and Bob Dole who rarely even talked about their war experiences, much less made hero ads.  Most are like them.

McCain has sealed his debriefing records so we will never know the real information the Vietnamese got out of him after he broke on that third day.  There is no dishonor in breaking by the way, but it does a disservice to others when the campaign makes comparisons to Audie Murphy in 2000, or this year with that Green Bay Packers stuff - not nearly the whole truth.  There is a legitimate question if McCain voluntarily refused repatriation or was ordered to do so, but it was honorable either way.

We all hope that we would respond with that same honor displayed by McCain those many years ago.  In fact we can all be accidental heroes at times and fail at other times.  Life is a series of tests.

This is another one.  McCain is known to be bitter after a loss, but this is no excuse to leave Palin twisting in the wind.

235

I do not agree with Hate Crime laws as well. They are a violation of the Constitution in several areas and are an open invitation for mischief because it allows the government to prosecute “thought” crime in the vein of A Clockwork Orange.

 

One doesn’t need to worry about the ones involving speech, SCOTUS ruled those unconstitutional years ago. Unfortunately they were more liberal at the time and they found the rest of them OK, as long as they only involved a violent crime in addition to the “thought” part. To me these are a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14^th amendment on two scores. First they punish the same crime unequally and second they are most certainly selectively enforced. My State does not have these laws.

236

231

 

I notice they you managed to be effortlessly smug and self-righteous without ever attempting to answer Barts questions.

 

why do we need special laws if a black man kills a white man, or vice-versa?

Stop admiring yourself in the mirror for five seconds and try to answer.

 

237 Obama ran on a far-left campaign platform. He promised to do the opposite of what Republicans.

Yet here is the wise TMQ telling that "reaching across the aisle" is the way to win and the way to govern. Obama disagrees with you, TMQ.

238

and this is how we know who is and who isn't a real conservative, a real conservative understands instinctively what is wrong about "Hate Speech" laws, they are thought control pure and simple, anyone who supports any kind of law that restricts a person's right to say what they want is against the Constitution. The 1st Amendment isn't just for the NYT, it's for everyone, whether you agree with them or not. 

 

239 One doesn’t need to worry about the ones involving speech...

Not necessarily, Vic. If one is heard arguing with another and a fight breaks out and witnesses report that one called the other a "towel head" for instance, then s/he can be charged with a hate crime even though it really had nothing to do with the fight.

240 and yes, i understand about the whole yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre agruement

241

and this is how we know who is and who isn't a real conservative, a real conservative understands instinctively what is wrong about "Hate Speech" laws

 

In fairness, I think that real liberals understand that also.

And then we have TMQ .....

242 Because it amplifies the heinousness of the crime. In my mind, there is nothing more repugnant than the arbitrariness of a hate crime.

Vic raises a great point that they go to thought. To that I say that the difference between the degrees of crimes is based on intent. Intent is vague and most often people guilty of serious crimes get off on lowered intent by sympathetic juries. I see hate crime statutes as a way to make the concept of intent more concrete.

243 There is no absolute right to free speech in our country...

Dude, our country was founded for two reasons: freedom of religious beliefs and freedom of speech.

Freedom of Speech -- in the very first amendment. The FIRST AMENDMENT.

244 I agree that application of the laws is imperfect.

245 Bart, go read something.

246

ok, anyone with a brain can see what's wrong with "Hate Speech" laws, but for some reason TMQ can't... check

247

You're cool with hate crimes laws? And you whine that that "social cons" are not small government enough for you?

Exactly, woof.

TMQ doesn't like those damned social cons who are against activist judges changing the institution of marriage by judicial fiat but is okay with hate crime laws.

248 Off to watch a field hockey game. Bye!

249 government has no buisness judging "intent" that is one of the biggest problems with our judical system. only God can judge intent because only God knows whats in a persons mind, judges don't know, lawyers don't know and jurors certainly don't know.

250

Bart;

 

The distinction is in how the speech is perceived and how it is presented. Face to face contact in which one person yells invective at another falls under the classification of “fighting words” and is NOT protected speech. However, under the same incident calling someone a racial epitaph can not be punished more severely than any other non-racial “fighting words”.

 

In other words if you get 30 days in jail for calling someone a cocksucker to his face in order to incite a fight, they can not give you an extra 30 days for calling someone a n*gger. That is what the SCOTUS has ruled is unconstitutional.

 

In addition, if someone prints material that is racially provocative and it does not involve a face to face confrontation, it is protected speech and can not be punixhed at all unless it falls under some other category.

251 Bart, go read something.

And here we see the invocation of Godwin's Law.

It was either calling me Hitler or telling me to "go read."

252

it amplifies the heinousness of the crime

 

Says who? Why is it "amplified" if I'm robbed because I'm white instead of because I'm rich?

 

 I see hate crime statutes as a way to make the concept of intent more concrete.

What business does the state have in trying to devine peoples thoughts and punish them for them?

 

You have some fucking audacity in showing up here to push your totaltarian bullshit while calling yourself a classical liberal. And your faux outrage at the social cons, who you amazingly accuse of being too big government for your taste, is the icing on the cake.

You're a liberal, a moron, and a hypocrite. Which explains your support for John McCain.

 

253

Off to watch a field hockey game. Bye

 

Buh bye, you stupid twat.

254 TMQ you are about as far from a 'classical liberal' as a person can get!

Thought crimes? Try reading '1984' for a start.

255

Bart, you need to ask her what she wants you to read. I suspect it's the NYT op-ed page.

 

256 "To that I say that the difference between the degrees of crimes is based on intent. Intent is vague and most often people guilty of serious crimes get off on lowered intent by sympathetic juries. I see hate crime statutes as a way to make the concept of intent more concrete."

I'm a prosecutor, and I'm afraid you've missed the boat on this completely, because even like most non-criminal attorneys, let alone most laypeople, you don't grasp the difference between intent and motive.  Intent is WHAT you want to do; motive is WHY you want to do it.  Legally, all crimes have an intent requirement (mens rea) even if that element is strict liability (i.e., no intent).   Legally, motive is supposed to be irrelevant; tactically, if you HAVE a motive from the evidence, that's the core of your case to the jury (if you don't, you rely on some other theory of the case and try to discount a lack of motive).

"I shot him dead on purpose" (murder) versus "I didn't MEAN to kill those kids when I decided to drive through the schoolyard" (manslaughter) versus "I missed the deer and hit the other hunter" (civil negligence) is a difference of intent.

"I shot him because he fucked my wife" versus "I shot him because he's black" versus "I shot him to impress Jodie Foster" is a difference of motive.

257 Because it amplifies the heinousness of the crime. In my mind, there is nothing more repugnant than the arbitrariness of a hate crime.

Vic raises a great point that they go to thought. To that I say that the difference between the degrees of crimes is based on intent. Intent is vague and most often people guilty of serious crimes get off on lowered intent by sympathetic juries. I see hate crime statutes as a way to make the concept of intent more concrete.

TMQ.

That's some of the dumbest shit I've read around here and that's saying something.

First, hate crimes aren't arbitrary. In fact they are targeted, that's the theory behind them. The victims aren't randomly selected, they are targeted because of  some feature the perpetrator doesn't like.

Also, hate crimes have nothing to do with intent, they go to motive.

Here's a flash, if you are into criminalizing emotions and thoughts instead of actions, you aren't a conservative.

258 "government has no buisness judging "intent" that is one of the biggest problems with our judical system"

Oh well, a thousand years of criminal law out the window.  I guess murder is legal in your world?  What color is the sky? 

Oh, and DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WTF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?!

259 I think it was Katie Couric; she's really into reading stuff.

260

DaveJ

 

That is always the argument that supporters of hate crime legislation puts out there but it misses the boat entirely. The difference punishment between murder and manslaughter has always been due to a desire to reduce penalties for accidents because to execute someone for an accident was seen to unfair in the past. It is also fairly easy in most cases to establish premeditation in murder.

 

Hate crime laws do the opposite. They seek to add penalties for not just intent, but thought. What it almost always boils down to is if a white man commits a crime against a black man he get the added “hate crime” issue while in the reverse, which is far more prevalent, there is no hate crime. This, unto itself, is enough to call for removal of these laws.

261 Okay, then, how about: "the government has no right to infer motive"

Better?

262 Vic, what are you talking about?  I never said whether I supported hate crimes laws or not.  I pointed out the difference between intent and motive, which it's patently obvious you've still missed.

"It is also fairly easy in most cases to establish premeditation in murder."

Really?  Easy for who, you?  I'm sure the homicide unit of my office would be happy to have you on board: how many first-degree murders have you tried?

263 I'm a prosecutor

Can I just say how disturbing I find it that a prosecutor reads AoS?

Nothing personal Dave, it's just, I don't know, I don't think people with real jobs and responsibilities should not be reading a site that revels in it's moroness.

Think about. Suppose you are about to have surgery and the last thing you hear your surgeon say before the operation is, "I read the funniest thing on Ace of Spades today...". Right then and there, you know you are going to die.

264

the judical system should only look at if a crime was committed, and who committed it, i don't believe that lawyers or judges should be allowed to determine punishment, the punishment for that crime should be set within the bill that made that act a crime. I know every lawyer on this blog will now attack me, because if my way of thinking caught on many of them would have to find a new line of work

265 If it's any consolation, Drew, I don't prosecute anything all THAT serious.

266

#173...Lizzie, Here's my stance from another post...If I have to vote pro-abortion to win, I'll sign on with #189.  We'll get pro-abortion voters because they like 2-9 on my list.  If they can't pull the lever because of #1, then we don't need them.

 

This post keenly highlights what I feel is the main issue facing the conservative movement.  How much should we accomodate those we disagree with on very fundamental principles in order to expand the tent?  In my view, the more we've moved center, the less elections we've won.  Here are some items I feel no urge to compromise on and believe the R party must get back to in order to regain it's standing. (No particular order). 

1.  Pro life in all but the very extreme cases of mother's health.  Take all public assistance out of the abortion scheme. 

2.  Pro traditional marriage...the very survival of family depends on it.

3.  Taxes that are as minimal as possible...people should get to keep their own wealth, despite what any liberal hack says/thinks.  

4.  Strong defense...and in the face of Islamo fascism...the Bush doctorine is a great starting point.

5.  Real 2nd amendment protection.

6.  Government is very rarely the answer to any problem facing individuals.  In most cases, the best course of action for the government is to get out of the way and let individuals strive for their own success and reliance. 

7.  No limiting of political speech such as McCain-Feingold and the Fairness D...

8.  Strong immigration limits, beginning with border enforcement first.  Those here illegally should be given no additional help in gaining citizenship. 

9.  Free enterprise holds the best and most keys to individuals improving their standard of living.  Government intervention in markets is usually disasterous. 

In short, a healthy skepticism of the government is a great starting point for any policy discussions.  Knocking down barriers to people being able to succeed on their own...but not preventing you from flaming on your own, either. 

If I have to compormise on any of these in order to gain your vote, then I don't see you as a true conservative in the Reagan mold.  Rush had a great program today and called out conservatives to stop leaning left in order to be liked.  Liberals want to crush us politically and culturally...this is a battle and conservatives tend to bring pillows to a knife fight.   

267

I don't think people with real jobs and responsibilities should not be reading a site that revels in it's moroness

 

I've met several morons in real life. You'd be surprised at the number of lawyers and businessmen in our ranks.

268

I don’t know how it is where you are at but most of the killings that occur here are open and shut judging from the newspaper articles. All you lawyer types do is complicate the issues with “rules of practice” which from what I have seen bear no resemblance to actual justice.

 

269 "...the punishment for that crime should be set within the bill that made that act a crime."

So, concrete example: simple battery, currently a first-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in county jail under Florida law.  Battery is any intentional touching against the victim's will.  Under your vision of what the law should be, the punishment would be the same for the teacher with a spotless record who pulls a kid out of class by her ponytail, and a repeat violent offender who punches someone in the face so hard they knock out teeth and break a jaw requiring surgery?

Or would they be different crimes in your world?  That would require the law to be infinitely complex, to account for the details and differences between every single case.

I've dealt with my share of out-of-control judges, but surely you think the judiciary as an equal branch of government IS supposed to have SOME purpose, no?

270

wow, no one has called me crazy yet for my last post, thanks, even though it was a bit goofy.

i guess what i'm trying to get is that we as country have basically driven ourselves insane with rules, regulations, procedure and policy, we don't need any more of that crap we need to get rid of it. 

271

The base issues of the Republican party have been individual rights and free markets--not social conservatism.

TMQ, it is clear that you do not have the first clue about the Republican Party or conservatives.  Individual rights and free markets is social conservativism.

The first and most important of individual rights is the right to have one's intrinsic and inherent humanity and right to life respected, including having the protection of law.  And it is THAT principle, TMQ, upon which the Republican Party was born!  Do you know anything about the history of the Party of Lincoln?  Clearly not, clearly you do not know that basic fact about how and WHY this Party was established, and why it continues to exist.

The social conservatives are the soul of the Republican Party.  Remove the soul from the body, and all you have is a dead body or a monster, one of the walking undead.

272

"...the punishment for that crime should be set within the bill that made that act a crime."

 

Mandatory sentencing laws, in other words. This has been done, in some places and for some offences.

273

Under your vision of what the law should be, the punishment would be the same for the teacher with a spotless record who pulls a kid out of class by her ponytail, and a repeat violent offender who punches someone in the face so hard they knock out teeth and break a jaw requiring surgery?

 

Your analogy doesn’t hold up. What we are talking about is a difference in punishment based on “thought” vs a difference in punishment based on damage caused by the transgression. Of course physical harm and maiming should be punished harsher than simple assault and in it was so specified in all the States I have lived in.

 

AND

 

How in the hell did we get from McCain to hate Crimes?

274 What he's proposing sounds more extreme than any sentencing schemes that I'm aware, Worf.  When I think min-mans, I think of Florida 10-20-Life law regarding gun crimes: commit a felony with a firearm, mandatory 10 years; draw the gun, mandatory 20; shoot someone, mandatory 25-to-life.  But those are still mandatory MINIMUMS: depending on the degree of the underlying crime(s), a court could still sentence you to a LOT more.

275

Individual rights and free markets is social conservativism.

 

I think that social conservatives believe that one of the more important individual rights is the right of individuals to pass laws, both by direct ballot initative and by electing legislators. It's that whole "self government" idea which the country was founded on.

But an awful lot of people hate that idea with a passion. They want the law to be kept safely out of the reach of the citzenry. We call such people "liberals".

276 I wasn't talking to you in that response, Vic: it was a response to shoey's suggestion that there should be no discretion in sentencing, that a mandatory sentence should imposed by the statute creating ANY crime, a much broader argument than whether or not there should be hate-crime laws.

277 i guess i feel harshly towards the legal system because it is so often used to thwart the will of the ppl, do any of you believe that Prop. 8 in Cal. will stand for longer than it takes the libs to get it into court?

278 Posted by: Lizzie at November 08, 2008 02:34 PM

Lizzie, crack is really bad for you, and you shouldn't smoke it.  Really.

279

How in the hell did we get from McCain to hate Crimes?

 

Blame TMQ. She's a McCain fan and "hate crimes laws" supporter.

 

Dave

What he's proposing sounds more extreme than any sentencing schemes that I'm aware

 

Yes. But I think he's mostly just attacking hate crimes laws and painted with a broad brush. It's known to happen in blog comments.

280

thanks worf,

and yes, i do tend to paint with a very wide brush, it's a skill like any other, lol

 

281 You gotta let John McCain be John McCain....

282 and to me it all comes back to the current state of the Repub Party, the party has been emasculated by ppl who believe there is no clear right or wrong, to declare "I am right about this" implies that someone else is wrong which means you have made a values judgement, and in liberal theology judging some else is the most hienous act imaginable, so they have worked for years to instill in the public this idea that there is no set right or wrong, only concensus determines right and wrong in their world and guess who gets to determine what that concensus is...

283 Suppose you are about to have surgery and the last thing you hear your surgeon say before the operation is, "I read the funniest thing on Ace of Spades today...". Right then and there, you know you are going to die.

Actually, surgeons who read Ace are more competent than their peers because they get plenty of practice on hobos.  I look forward to practicing on the local hobo population during my residency training.

284

wow, no one has called me crazy yet for my last post, thanks, even though it was a bit goofy.

 

You're crazy! And goofy!

 

 

285 #70 Aww, Time Magazine wants a "twitter" presidency, isn't that cute.

7:30 am Barack is having a waffle.

10:00 am Uncle Jerry stopped by for a chat.

12:00 pm Dammit, Rahm, this arugula just won't do.  Send an aide down to Whole Foods.

286 Choosing a victim for the color of ones skin, nationality, gender, sexual orientation is arbitrary. Choosing a victim because they are screwing your girlfriend or own a nicer TV is not.

You don't have to agree with me. I don't agree with you and I'm not going around calling you a "twat" now, am I?

And, Vic, we got to hate crimes because it was in Bart's list of things that he's against.

My support of hate crimes legislation does not make me a socialist nor leftist. I think protecting human rights is extremely important. Last I checked, though, there was no right to commit hate crimes.

287 Most conservatives vigorously stuck by McCain, although he was a lemon & made lots of wrong moves (I never expressed this to anyone during the campaign).

The fucking Maverick needs to make a stand NOW about this Palin-bashing. Like when he jumped in the shit of the NC GOP with their Wright ad. WTF?

288 How about when OUR Maverick spoke about the federal government renegotiating the principle on mortgages.

It was outrageously leftist. Again, WTF?

Good fucking riddance to that aisle-crossing, media-tool, Maverick.

289 "Last I checked, though, there was no right to commit hate crimes."

Last I checked there was no right to commit "crimes" period.

"Hate crimes" are another brick in the wall of an Orwellian, "social justice", judicial activism society. 

290 Dave J., the law is infinitely complex and there are tiny differences between cases that on their face seem exactly alike. [I feel like the Carl Sagan of law saying that "there are billions and billions of legal nuances..."]

291

Last time I checked, being someone who served honorably in the military doesn't give that person a pass on how they behaved after they muster out.

Folks might want to ask Duke Cunningham how that worked out, just to name one example.

Or Jack Murtha.

292

I nominate TMQ 218 for "dumbest comment of the week".

293 I completely understand the difference between intent and motive, Mr. Crim Law 101. Nothing I stated goes against that. My comments were made in response to Vic talking about making laws on thought. We already do that with our statutory intent requirements for different crimes. Intent is thought. What does that have to do with the difference between motive and intent? If anything you strengthened what I was saying. So, thanks, I guess.

294 I e-mailed Gov. Palin just after she had been thrown to the wolves in her first two interviews and Ol' McSlime signing onto the bailout abortion. I  begged her to get as far away from that senile old traitor as fast as her supple legs could carry her. That sucker of cock has not been trustworthy since he climbed on the mercy flight bringing true heros home from Hanoi.

295 It seems the GOP's representatives hereabouts (or, better, the rump portion of the GOP which is, ironically, pleased to defend the ideological, if not territorial, borders of the Confederate States of America) are jumping all over the poor little lady, TMQ. Hate crime laws are, in the abstract, an affront to classical notions of liberty and equality under the law. But practically, there are better positions for those actually interested in not continuing to see the GOP's influence decline to plant the flag. Fierce "social conservative" ideological purity is, in this day and age, too easily caricatured as reactionary at best, racist and xenophobic at worst. If the GOP decides to double down on tactics and rhetoric that can by an unfair and unsympathetic media be easily caricatured and manipulated, it is simply foolish. Those arguing for such a retrenchment are in that case fools. Wise up, folks. Believe in your proinciples, but shut the f--- up about (even deny, when necessary) the harshest, most extreme aspects of your ideology. Obama figured this out. You better figure it out too. Unless you want to spend the rest of your life in the political wilderness, feeling swell about bitching about the Democrats on the internet

296

Hate crime laws are, in the abstract, an affront to classical notions of liberty and equality under the law.

 

Nice of you to admit that. Please inform the "poor little lady", who thinks otherwise. 

297

I nominate TMQ 218 for "dumbest comment of the week".

 

I think we can bundle all her comments on this thread togeher and make them "dumbest comments of the month".

 

298

My support of hate crimes legislation does not make me a socialist nor leftist.

 

Yes, it does. If you had the slightest inkling about what the different political camps believe, you'd know that. Why don't you try readng?

 

I think protecting human rights is extremely important.

How very noble of you! But "hate crimes laws" have nothing to do with human rights.  You silly twat.

299

Choosing a victim for the color of ones skin, nationality, gender, sexual orientation is arbitrary. Choosing a victim because they are screwing your girlfriend or own a nicer TV is not.

We already established that you don't know the meaning of "honor". Now you show us that you don't know what "arbitrary" means either. Are lawyers in your state not required to have basic familiarity with the English language?

 

Chosing a victim from the class of people who have a nicer TV is in fact exactly as arbitrary as chosing a victim based on gender or skin color.

300 Ever generous, I'll grant TMQ the presumption that she in fact thinks hate crime laws are an affront to classical notions of liberty and equality under the law. She's likely making the argument that at this stage in America's history, attempting to roll them back makes the advocate susceptible to attack as a racist and is, therefore, lousy politics. I bet she also thinks that self-satisfied ideological solidarity with someone who has burned a cross, raped a woman, and/or murdered someone is such bad politics that it calls into question the motives of the supporter. Ever generous, again, I bet even she doesn't think that last applies to worf.

301

It seems the GOP's representatives hereabouts (or, better, the rump portion of the GOP which is, ironically, pleased to defend the ideological, if not territorial, borders of the Confederate States of America)  blah blah blah

 

Man, you're a long winded bore. Around here that's a worse crime than not knowing what you're talking about, which sin you're also guilty of.

302

Ever generous, I'll grant TMQ the presumption that she in fact thinks hate crime laws are an affront to classical notions of liberty and equality under the law.

 

Read the thread, you fucktard.

 

She's likely making the argument that at this stage in America's history, attempting to roll them back makes the advocate susceptible to attack as a racist and is, therefore, lousy politics

 

No, that's your own cockinamy idea.

 

I bet she also thinks that self-satisfied ideological solidarity with someone who has burned a cross, raped a woman, and/or murdered someone

 

Did I already comment on your fucktardedness? Go peddle that bullshit back at Kos or Commentary. Do it while you express your self satisfied solidarity with Barack Obama..

 

303 Style and content criticism by worf. A man for all seasons, assuredly. As long as one of those season's isn't winter, of course...yeee-hah!!!

304

Deep stuff, "paladin".

 

An odd name for a cowardly little prick.

305 "fucktard"...therso that's the kind of sharp prose and deep thought he's looking for "around here".

306 worf the vote-getter. Yes, conservatism's future should adhere to his ideas. It should be in his capable, steady hands.

307 And, speaking of names, doesn't he know that the worst thing one can be called on Klingon-- the badge of the ultimate sell-out-- is an "Uncle Worf"?

308

As opposed to sharp prose like this?

It seems the GOP's representatives hereabouts (or, better, the rump portion of the GOP which is, ironically, pleased to defend the ideological, if not territorial, borders of the Confederate States of America) are jumping all over the poor little lady, TMQ. Hate crime laws are, in the abstract, an affront to classical notions of liberty and equality under the law. But practically, there are better positions for those actually interested in not continuing to see the GOP's influence decline to plant the flag. Fierce "social conservative" ideological purity is, in this day and age, too easily caricatured as reactionary at best, racist and xenophobic at worst. If the GOP decides to double down on tactics and rhetoric that can by an unfair and unsympathetic media be easily caricatured and manipulated, it is simply foolish. Those arguing for such a retrenchment are in that case fools. Wise up, folks. Believe in your proinciples, but shut the f--- up about (even deny, when necessary) the harshest, most extreme aspects of your ideology. Obama figured this out. You better figure it out too. Unless you want to spend the rest of your life in the political wilderness, feeling swell about bitching about the Democrats on the internet

 

I've read stuff by Chomsky with more crisp and pointed prose.

As for "deep thought" - calling people who oppose thought crimes laws "racist" is only considered "deep" in places like Berkely.

 

Is that where you are, "paladin"?

 

 

309

Yes, conservatism's future should adhere to his ideas. It should be in his capable, steady hands.

 

As opposed to to cocksuckers like you who consider conservatves racist rednecks. Sure, the conservative movement under your leadership would go from strength to strength.

 

310

 doesn't he know that the worst thing one can be called on Klingon--

 

Christ, you're as knowledgable about Klingon as you are about history, philosophy, and the law.

Has it ever occured to you to try to learn something about a subject before doing your Cliff Claven rounine?

 

311 Kronos, that is. Klingons come from Kronos. Not that the race-denying sell-out cares one way or another about his people, their planet, or their historical plight.

Asd for prose criticism, I'm soory that they don't teach subordinate clauses and complex ideas on Kronos. Such a deficiency just might justify Uncle Worf's perfidy.

312 A beperson with deep knowledge about the ins and outs of a fictional planetary race, derides another w/ less perfect knowledge as doing a "Cliff Claven routine". They don't teach irony on Kronos either, apparently.

313 The most complex idea you seem to be able to hold in your head is "conservatives are racists". So I don't know why you seem to imagine yourself to be some sort of intellectual.

314

It's your ignorance of all subjects, not merely of the ins and outs of Klingon culture, which I was mocking. Hence the "Cliff Claven" remark.

But then, you already knew that and were merely feigning stupidity.

315 Not at all. In fact, I would say racism and conservatism, properly understood, are mutually exclusive. I'm willing to conced however, given the deplorable state of political discourse in the USA, that some racists consider themselves "conservative". Some racists also consider themselves "liberal", of course. My argument here has been tactical. Non-racist conservatives, and racist conservatives, should keep their mouths shut about rolling back hate crime laws if they want to get elected. Non-racist liberals, and racist liberals, seem to have figured this out regarding their worst issue-- affirmative action.

316 What confidence Uncle Worf has. We've been interacting for an hour, more or less,and already I'm ignorant of all subjects. A deeply, deeply conservative conclusion on his part.

317

I would say racism and conservatism, properly understood, are mutually exclusive

 

And yet, in your pompous,  pretentious and comically ignorant way, you somehow manage to describe conservative opposition to thought crimes laws as "self-satisfied ideological solidarity with someone who has burned a cross, raped a woman, and/or murdered someone".

How do you explain that?

 

My argument here has been tactical.

 

Your "argument" here has been ignorant and bigoted. Do you actually think that conservative opposition to these laws is keeping back people from voting for us? You're stupid, I know, but that stupid? 

318

What confidence Uncle Worf has. We've been interacting for an hour, more or less,and already I'm ignorant of all subjects. A deeply, deeply conservative conclusion on his part.

Every comment you make is of this same qualty, if quality is not too polite a word for it. You think that if you just pretend that you're doing well here, nobody will notice what a jackass you're making of yourself. And at all costs, you carefully avoid getting dragged into any concrete discussion of policy or ethics. You think your smug ignorance can carry you through anything.

319 Question 1- it's bad politics. And, of course, Uncle Worf compliments himself w/ the term "conservative opposition". I'd call what he's talking about "too fierce, self-indulgent and therefore suspicious conservative opposition"."

Question 2- hate crime laws in particular? No I don't, because they're really is not a high profile issue. I mention it here onbly because it came up earlier in the comments section. Put rolling back hate crimes high up there on the party plank in '10 and '12, though. We'll see how it tests. Uncle Worf would be thrilled. The rest of America would probably have other ideas.

320 "You think your smug ignorance can carry you through anything"

So far so good. I'll raise my game when you do.

321

Pissy Paladin says, "It's bad politics". As usual, a bald assertion unsupported by any facts or reasoned argument. But that's Pissy Paladins style, is it not? Along with the stupid style of writing which I'm currently mocking, of course.

Pissy Paladin says "because they're really is not a high profile issue"

Huh? Can you sober up for a minute please?

 

Question for Pussy Palidin - If opposition to "hate crimes laws" was in the GOP platform, right at the very tippy top of it, what effect do you think it would have on the black vote?

 

The rest of America would probably have other ideas.

As a proud member of Americas pseudo-intellectual class I'm sure you have many ideas about what you think Americas ideas would be.

322

 I'll raise my game when you do.

 

No, this is all you've got. Like all liberal fucktards, the brainless sneer is the  first, last, and only tool in your locker.

323 Question 1-- Too late for sobering up. But typos did me in on that one. "Hate crime laws are not a high profile issue, therefore they have had little effect on the electorate" is what I was going for.

Question 2-- The proper question is not, of course, the extent to which hate crime legislation effects black support for the GOP. The GOP's lack of success w/ African-Americans is a  tragedy, and it's not likely to improve via a fierecely conservative stand against hate crime laws. No, the battle, should rolling back hate crime laws ever become an operative issue, would be w/ politically moderate white voters. No less than anyone else, these folks have strong feelings about individual liberty and equality. But they've also proven very susceptible to mis- and dis- information about legislation particularly, and political issues more generally, touching upon race. They vote, and think, safe-- that is, they don't want to be called racists, even if it's wrong and unfair to be so-called. If Uncle Worf thinks he can be the shining light to strengthen and enlighten these weak, ignorant creatures, more power to him. Others less ambitious want their vote.

324 Behold the future of American Conservatism: a traitorous Klingon wielding a mean "fucktard" lectures about brainless smears.

325 So a guy getting his ass beat repeatedly for 5.5 years makes him above reproach? And all this time I thought Obama was the Messianic figure in American politics...

326 worf, @#230:  No, that is not what a neocon is. By that moronic definition, Ronald Reagan was a neocon. So is George Bush.

Neocons were and are pro-foreign-interventionist liberals. Jeane Kirkpatrick was an early example.

TMQ, @#232: Incite, you are moron now. LOL

I realize Wikipedia is not exactly a scholarly citation, but allow me to quote: "[N]eoconservatives align themselves with mainstream conservative values, such as the free market, limited welfare, and traditional cultural values.  Their key distinction is in international affairs, where they prefer an interventionist approach that seeks to defend national interests."

Until Bush came along, liberals were always pro-interventionist — witness Clinton's many foreign excapades in Bosnia, Somalia, Haiti, etc.  It was Bush — who ran against the idea of nation-building in his presidential campaign — who made "neoconservativism" possible.

Unless, of course, you're worf or most leftists, then "neocon" means "all the shit I don't like."

327

The MSM slandered Palin and McCain said nothing... but McCain is an honorable man.

Nicole Williams slandered Palin and McCain said nothing... but McCain is an honorable man.

Romney's staff slandered Palin and McCain said nothing... but McCain is an hono..

Fuck it, McCain is scum.  He just threw away the one thing no one could take from him, his good reputation of honor.  He may as well join the dem party because his lack of morals is a perfect match with them.

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