Note to Palin-Smearers: As McCain Said, "You Will Know Their Names and We Will Make Them Famous"Operation: Leper.
1 I turned off Greta's Rove segment early, but given that Schmidt is a known disciple of his, did Karl seem to have a... halfhearted look on his face as he knocked this stuff?
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 12:47 AM (zHoxL)
2 Good for Red State. These people should never again work in a Republican campaign. Let them go sabotage the Dems, or find an entirely different line of work.
Posted by: DelD at November 06, 2008 12:47 AM (Yw/4J)
3 If there is to be a little post-defeat blood-letting, let us begin with the Palin bashers on McCain's ex-campaign staff.
Posted by: Jones at November 06, 2008 12:47 AM (KOkrW)
4 STEVE SCHMIDT
Posted by: Jim62sch at November 06, 2008 12:49 AM (6rQXk)
5 Excellent. Righteous anger puts me in a very good mood.
Posted by: katya at November 06, 2008 12:49 AM (G3frc)
6 "These people should never again work in a Republican campaign. Let
them go sabotage the Dems, or find an entirely different line of work."
and the great purge begins. . . FINALLY
Posted by: David at November 06, 2008 12:50 AM (HAdov)
Yeah, I've been agitating for Steve Schmidt on the earlier thread. If it wasn't him, he knows who it is and probably told them to do it.
Posted by: geoff at November 06, 2008 12:50 AM (cpqad)
8 I really believe that they are going to go after her because they failed in their job.
They vetted her and now they trash her. Classy!
Posted by: kim in vancouver at November 06, 2008 12:51 AM (FnVzU)
9 The only person I'm mad at is CARL CAMERON, Fox News Chief political correspondent, for citing ANONYMOUS SOURCES at length on Bill O'Rielly and other programs. How far journalism has fallen, how disgracefully unprofessional. Is this kind of unverifiable gossip going to be the norm on Fox News now? Even as lead news items? What garbage. Shame, shame
Posted by: Village Idiot at November 06, 2008 12:51 AM (eEQKM)
10 David, I prefera more permanent method of settling personnel issues, but I'm not supposed to do that sort of thing outside designated combat zones.
Posted by: SGT Dan at November 06, 2008 12:52 AM (Q6BTe)
11 These guys see themselves as the power behind the throne. They feel superior to us rubes. They go to parties with Peggy and Colin and they just earned their spurs. If we allow them in our world again they are right about us.
Names and email please.
Posted by: locus ceruleus at November 06, 2008 12:53 AM (e2mBS)
12 Operation: Leper, is an excellent idea and a first round in the war to get rid of the jackasses behind the scenes.
They will NOT be tolerated. And of course, we show our support to Governor Palin.
We better have long memories.
Posted by: mare at November 06, 2008 12:54 AM (X1fsj)
We better have long memories.
Posted by: geoff at November 06, 2008 12:55 AM (cpqad)
14 Thanks for this.
We need it. We do. Too much takes place in the dark.
Posted by: counter at November 06, 2008 12:55 AM (8/0ME)
15 Smoke them out. Expose them. Banish them to the wilderness to spend the rest of their pathetic lives flipping burgers.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 06, 2008 12:56 AM (OqXyp)
16 #12 How do we get in touch with Palin. I want to write a nice letter or email of support and encouragement. I have a feeling she might actually read this stuff personally and it just feels like the right thing to do after all this.
Posted by: David at November 06, 2008 12:57 AM (HAdov)
17 Why did Hot Air have that lame headline on Palin and Africa. It gives the impression she didn't know and that's just deceptive.
What is wrong with Hot Air? I thought they were some of the good guys? Why are they acting like the Enquirer or Newsweek or Us magazine?
Posted by: mare at November 06, 2008 12:58 AM (X1fsj)
18 Surviving Republicans need to push for a reinstatement of the code duello.
Andrew Jackson and Aaron Burr knew exactly to deal with bullshit like this.
Posted by: Jim62sch at November 06, 2008 12:58 AM (6rQXk)
19 If you read the Oct 22, New Yorker piece by Robert Draper, one thing stands out. Lindsay Graham was a Romney for VP booster. Could Grahamnesty be the "senior aide"?
Posted by: aquaviva at November 06, 2008 12:59 AM (w19Us)
20 "I thought they were some of the good guys?"
They're basically trolling their own side for hits.
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 01:00 AM (zHoxL)
21 I don't think Lindsay Graham should be trusted about anything.
Posted by: mare at November 06, 2008 01:00 AM (X1fsj)
22 Serious question:
What if this stuff is actually true? Does it not suggest that Palin was/is, in fact, a bad candidate? Are we taking the position that, even if true, it just should never have come out? (This is not a snarky question; I think you can make a case either way.) I understand how the context of when and where this info is leaking makes it stink of ungraciousness and recrimination, but...well, I'd still rather know this, as a conservative voter, than not.
Because, whilst I automatically discount some of this stuff as being the typical losing-campaign backbiting, I dunno...it sure does square with the way Palin often came off publicly. I'm sorry, I'm as viciously partisan a GOP voter as they come, but I honestly became convinced that Palin was, at the very least, unprepared for the campaign. I'm not about to adopt her as my standard-bearer now by default.
I guess I'm on the Bart/Jackstraw side of things here. Nobody was more enthusiastic about Palin than me when the choice first came down. But I'm not going to let my partisanship blind me to the fact that she blew it big time on the national stage. Maybe some of this was the McCain campaign's fault, surely the media played a big role. But ultimately she has to own her failure too: those interviews sunk her and even I wanted to fucking weep when I saw her do Gibson and Couric. Don't give me the "gotcha question" excuse. Those questions weren't freakin' "gotchas."
Posted by: Jeff B. at November 06, 2008 01:01 AM (OEoRy)
23 #12 How do we get in touch with Palin. I want to write a nice letter
or email of support and encouragement. I have a feeling she might
actually read this stuff personally and it just feels like the right
thing to do after all this.
Alaska State Capitol Building
P.O. Box 110001
Juneau, AK 99811-0001
e-mail: governor AT gov.state.ak.us
Posted by: Jim62sch at November 06, 2008 01:01 AM (6rQXk)
24 "Could Grahamnesty be the "senior aide"?"
Heh heh heh.
If only, if only.
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 01:01 AM (zHoxL)
25 The whole Carl Cameron story smells to high heaven. Every
"incident"/"anecdote" Carl reports seems so out of character for Sarah
Failing to corroborate the story with Palin herself, he
should have been a bit more dispassionate in reporting the story. His
glee was too obvious and so unbecoming and unprofessional. None of the
typical caveats were mentioned (as to un-sourced, non-commented on
Carl was too quick out of the box, gleefully
reporting this crap. This is not the first time he has been indiscreet
in reporting or commenting on events he is covering. So that should be
factored in as well.
I would recommend to FOX that they
sincerely evaluate his job performance to see if he is maintaining the
standards to which the network claims it holds. I also expect the
program hosts that permit him to spew this crap to be scrutinized as to
whether they appropriately assessed the "scoops" that Carl was
reporting. By not challenging what Carl was reporting un-sourced,
undermines their credibility as well. Greta was the only one to
FOX News should be very embarrassed to have
this story reported in the form and tone it was. Lacking anything
other than named sources, they should have been very cautious, and not
shopping this shite on every FOX program. Carl seemed to simply accept
these stories at face value and never questioned the motives behind the
sources (at least on air he did not). A critical failing in any
journalist worth his salt.
Carl Cameron, absolute hack.
Posted by: prtybl at November 06, 2008 01:01 AM (/YC4b)
26 Jeff B., Governor Palin was so thoroughly and disgustingly checked out by the MSM, don't you think if they had heard of her being a diva, a bitch, loose or stupid it would have come out before the election. For Heaven's sake think, man.
Posted by: mare at November 06, 2008 01:05 AM (X1fsj)
27 CC also said Palin didn't know the diff between local, state and federal governments. Please. She was mayor and is governor. This trash doesn't even pass a third grade smell test. Campaign Carl was like a teenager snickering about the towel story. Todd ought to start hauling these jag-offs to the North Slope for an icy send-off.
Posted by: ReverseSpin at November 06, 2008 01:06 AM (zoVA8)
28 Anybody who has played team sports knows that what is said in the locker room stays in the locker room
I don't care if she couldn't tell her left from her right or thought that night was day
You don't go running throwing your teammates under the bus and if you do, you don't hide behind the title of "unknown source"
If you didn't like her for whatever reason ... keep your damn mouth shut
and if you did support her in that campaign ... you come out right now and absolutely destroy those who have broken this trust
Then you will see who is made of what
I have already written to the RNC and John McCain
Posted by: Joey at November 06, 2008 01:06 AM (M+zG7)
Palin was obviously inexperienced and underprepared, but for the most part her heart and values are in the right place (the only other candidate we could say that about was Fred Thompson), and her record at getting the right things done in Alaska is impressive.
I think most of us were willing to take the chance on McCain's living long enough for her to learn the ropes, so that someone was representing our values in the Executive Office.
Posted by: geoff at November 06, 2008 01:06 AM (cpqad)
30 Ok, I finally watched the video. WTF?!
Posted by: Mark at November 06, 2008 01:07 AM (EpUX6)
31 Serious question: What if this stuff is actually true?
Serious answer: Are you really that fucking stupid?
I guess I'm on the Bart/Jackstraw side of things here.
Of course. The homo and Jack are Romney people. It is the Romney people who have the knives in her back.
Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 06, 2008 01:07 AM (b3SFk)
32 Jeff, the tone and tenor of the stories being spun is entirely too sensational to be believed. I was shaking my head in disbelief and made two "ARE YOU WATCHING THIS?" phone calls during Cameron's appearance on O'Reilly tonight. I am perfectly willing to believe that mistakes were made, and that perhaps Palin was thrust onto the national scene too quickly. Stories about answering doors in bathrobes and being a "shopoholic" are...I don't even know. How disgusting. I hope Rush and co. pick up on this tomorrow. I could use a good Rush rant right about now.
Posted by: Jana at November 06, 2008 01:07 AM (PflST)
33 I want to see conservative operatives who have the confidence to say what they think in public. I'm tired of this passive-aggressive media whoring by weasels in the GOP. Man the fuck up, bitches. Let the chips fall where they may.
Make all of these fuckers famous. We need behavior correction on the right and this is a good place to start.
Posted by: runninrebel at November 06, 2008 01:07 AM (ocqQA)
34 Anyone offering a bounty on these guys?
Posted by: Iblis at November 06, 2008 01:08 AM (lpVto)
35 >>>What if this stuff is actually true? Does it not suggest that Palin
was/is, in fact, a bad candidate? Are we taking the position that,
even if true, it just should never have come out?
I don't think it is true. It's absurd.
For this to be true she'd need to be borderline retarded.
She strikes me as sharp.
And I don't believe (as others have noted) that someone familiar with the oil trade doesn't know of the various oil-exporting african countries.
She is an American, conducting deals with Canada. She doesn't know the other country in North America? Really? Please.
Or is it that she wasn't sure if any central american countries were also in the pact? Bit of a information gap there, but SEATO contains countries that aren't in southeast asia.
I think that this is bullshit, and it is being put forward by people who don't like her or like other candidates more.
Posted by: ace at November 06, 2008 01:08 AM (8T2pi)
36 Maybe I missed the part where McCain denounced all of this?
Oh wait, he didn't.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at November 06, 2008 01:08 AM (NIQqg)
37 "What if this stuff is actually true?"
I'll take it at face value. What sounds true to you? Specifics.
Posted by: counter at November 06, 2008 01:10 AM (8/0ME)
38 What if this stuff is actually true?
Seriously, how many college graduates don't know Africa is a continent?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 06, 2008 01:10 AM (OqXyp)
39 "Maybe I missed the part where McCain denounced all of this?"
Best part of McCain losing: we get to hate him again.
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 01:10 AM (zHoxL)
40 What is wrong with Hot Air? I thought they were some of the good guys? Why are they acting like the Enquirer or Newsweek or Us magazine?
Someone is right -- they'll do anything for hits.
Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 06, 2008 01:10 AM (b3SFk)
41 But ultimately she has to own her failure too: those interviews sunk
her and even I wanted to fucking weep when I saw her do Gibson and
Couric. Don't give me the "gotcha question" excuse. Those questions
weren't freakin' "gotchas."
First, let me say this - I love Sarah and will be supporting her in the future. But you're right in that she was not ready to rattle off a lot of this stuff. The Bush Doctrine? Bush himself would have fucked that one up. The Supreme Court case thing? Yeah, I think she wasn't expecting a question along those lines, and an answer didn't instantly come to her. We've all been in that situation, especially under pressure.
At least she has the integrity not to do the Joe Biden thing and rattle off any random bullshit that pops into her head.
But the Africa thing? It's totally implausible and I can't believe anyone would fall for that without videotape.
I know she wasn't ready for this campaign, just like the U.S. military wasn't ready to fight the Japanese at Guadalcanal. But she stepped up and TRIED, and she gave it her all. You can't ask for more than that. Who else could have done better? I'll always love her, no matter what, because she knew the odds and gave it her best shot anyway. McCain didn't deserve her.
Posted by: Jim62sch at November 06, 2008 01:11 AM (6rQXk)
42 Fox is #1 on the shit list and they know it. Trying to suck up now. Sadly its the republicans in the campaign except for Palin and McCain that look like classless low life's trying to point the finger at anyone but their own incompetance. Palin has taken more shit than any of these balless wonders not only in McCain's camp but in the media and Democratic party. They would have caved from it all long ago. She did not and came right back, making them all look like blatering brainless morons that they are.
Insecure men feeling threatened by her and women that are jealous, pure and simple. That it rolled off her back and she carried herself with class and humor went up their ass a mile more than anything. That she is on the rise and great things will come her way just eats them alive knowing they are stuck were they are in life and will only move down.
Posted by: Road warrior at November 06, 2008 01:11 AM (B/Y39)
43 waste of time. nice, tigers eating their young. classy.
Posted by: new at November 06, 2008 01:11 AM (MobLv)
44 And by the way. Let's try to get the GOP to fire all the TV hacks they put on the tube to spin the dem spin. Get some smart people who can debate. Reject the marketing/PR nonsense.
Hire people who can talk philosophy and policy.
Posted by: runninrebel at November 06, 2008 01:12 AM (ocqQA)
45 Of course. The homo and Jack are Romney people. It is the Romney people who have the knives in her back.
I'm not sure if you're referring to me as "the homo," but a.) I'm not a homo; b.) I was never a Romney supporter. Like Ace, I started with Giuliani but eventually settled on McCain on the logic that he gave us the best shot. Romney? He probably would've gotten pasted even worse than McCain did. It's not fair, because I think he would make an excellent president (he's more qualified for the job than any candidate in my living memory), but he's utterly unelectable as a Mormon plutocrat.
Posted by: Jeff B. at November 06, 2008 01:12 AM (OEoRy)
46 I hope there aren't many people as stupid as Jeff B. I want these anonymous fucks destroyed. They never work in politics again. They never work for a Republican again. Not "name and shame", "name and maim".
Posted by: bgates at November 06, 2008 01:13 AM (CFjXn)
47 "obviously inexperienced and underprepared"
What BS. She was more poised than Obama, Biden and McCain.
Posted by: mare at November 06, 2008 01:13 AM (X1fsj)
48 One of the aides tells CNN that campaign manager Rick Davis fired Scheunemann after determining that he had been in direct contact with journalists spreading “disinformation” about campaign aides, including Nicolle Wallace and other officials. “He was positioning himself with Palin at the expense of John McCain’s campaign message,” said one of the aides.
What does this mean? That McCain's campaign message was to insult and humiliate Palin?
Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 06, 2008 01:13 AM (b3SFk)
49 I could use a good Rush rant right about now.
Rush rants are fine. But I want to hear an old-fashioned Mark Levin tirade about this as the main course.
Posted by: Reiver at November 06, 2008 01:14 AM (oliA4)
50 Jeff B, re: the stupid homo talk. It's just that, stupid homo talk. Don't worry about the retards.
But, back to the point, what here sounds true to you? My bullshit meter is off the charts here.
Posted by: counter at November 06, 2008 01:15 AM (8/0ME)
51 "I'm not sure if you're referring to me as "the homo,""
He meant Bart (also not a homo, though amusingly insistent with the anti-gay stuff)
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 01:15 AM (zHoxL)
52 I posted this on another thread, but afraid it might be too far downstream to get picked up So, I apologize in advance if you already saw it.
So, here’s what I’m thinking about: I’d like to
get started on a grassroots movement first to just stay on top of the
crazy legislation coming our way, then to vote the bums out in 2010.
think if we each just start gathering the names of people in our
friends and family willing to call and write letters when we need to
defeat certain offensive legislation, then energize them to grow the
tree, within two years, we can really make a difference.
Let's organize NOW. I'd like to help coordinate this.
If you are interested you can email me: queen0fcups AT sbcglobal DOT net
Posted by: Robin Mac at November 06, 2008 01:15 AM (nor5k)
Yeah this is the women who doesn't know the difference bewteen the local and state goverments.
Posted by: Jay at November 06, 2008 01:15 AM (qddqX)
54 runninrebel, I basically said the same thing in a different thread.
Don't run a campaign on polls. Know your platform, believe it's best for the country and convince the American people. No wavering because of some jackass poll. Had Governor Palin been allowed to do that she would have been even better.
Posted by: mare at November 06, 2008 01:16 AM (X1fsj)
What BS. She was more poised than Obama, Biden and McCain.
I'm a big fan of Palin, but poise does not equal experience and preparation. It's not her fault - McCain brought her in way too late. Obama was stumbling over himself on foreign policy issues when he started his campaign, but had two years to get to know the issues (he's still bad, but he can survive an interview). Palin was tossed into the ring with how much preparation?
Posted by: geoff at November 06, 2008 01:17 AM (cpqad)
56 Speaking of "homo", though, I seriously find it hard to believe that any red-blooded straight male could pull this sort of stuff on Sarah.
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 01:17 AM (zHoxL)
57 Let's see. It was McCain's campaign and he had men running it and when he loses...they blame the woman! Way to be men!
What a bunch of cowardly, underhanded, sexist pussies. Aaargh! I think I might pop an artery.
Posted by: Paula at November 06, 2008 01:17 AM (WYypq)
58 Geoff, How did McCain, Biden or Obama show more experience?
And How many times do we have to go over the whole two hours of interview 6 minutes of edit????????
Posted by: mare at November 06, 2008 01:20 AM (X1fsj)
59 Note: Ace put up yet another post on this above
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 01:20 AM (zHoxL)
60 Smoke 'em out!
Redstate should just publish all the names of McCain's staff. Someone will crack immediately and start talking in order to disassociate themselves from the jerks.
Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 06, 2008 01:20 AM (b3SFk)
61 It all eventually gets to TMZ level. Rediculous.
Posted by: Swegin at November 06, 2008 01:20 AM (q0Z3p)
62 I never felt it here before but some of you are getting close to sounding dangerously and pathetically sexist.
You guys are way better than that.
I'm no sensitive female. But, come on.
Posted by: mare at November 06, 2008 01:20 AM (X1fsj)
63 Someone pointed out on the previous thread that she had secret service protection. Would they let her answer a door like that dressed in a towel to greet the nice man with a gun who thinks she is the devil?
Would her husband on the couch let her answer the door in a towel?
Sounds like bullshit to me!
Posted by: Travis at November 06, 2008 01:21 AM (uOj//)
64 I'm a big fan of Palin, but poise does not equal experience and preparation.
Too bad that the same standard doens't apply to Biden. How many errors did he make in his debate?
Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 06, 2008 01:23 AM (b3SFk)
65 The towel tale should be enough to conclude what their intentions are here....Smear Smear Smear..
Posted by: Jay at November 06, 2008 01:24 AM (qddqX)
66 Some thoughts from the volatile world of private equity corporate transformation...
My employer is going through radical hell. It was a tired, massive financial company that mirrored the Republican party. It was run by country-club fat cats who were focused more on accumulating bonuses for boat payments, college payments for kids, Lexus purchases, etc. It shifted critical capital reinvestment decisions out further and further, at the expense of massive risk assumption. Rather than replace a 10-year-old dying platform, they milked the platform for another year and prayed it survived so they could cash in on bonuses. That died when the private equity barbarians took over some time ago and those worthless underperforming execs and managers were thrown into unemployment.
Our party now faces this same dynamic. We got slaughtered by our own, not the left. Seven million of our people stayed at home, and millions more switched and voted for a Marxist to send a message that the fat-cat, earmark loving Country Club Republican was fired. Yesterday was a pink slip party initiated by middle America.
So where do we go with this? Some of the "bitter country-club clingers" of the McCain campaign staff are trying to blame one of us for their failure. Forget their dismal campaign, their inability to handle basics, etc. They're throwing Palin under the bus as a proxy for their hatred of our rejection. This action raises a fundamental question the party must now ask: Who's party is this?
If it is a party of Noonans, Cameroons and other elitist poseurs, many of us here need to identify this and kill the party once and for all. We should move on and focus our efforts elsewhere, leaving these trust fund parasites behind. If the party is salvageble, then we need to do what we do in corporate bankruptcy:
1. Replace current management: It got us here and clearly can't get us out. We must clean house and eradicate this dead weight if we're to ever make progress.
2. Replace the sycophants who support management: They're worse than dead weight as they consume too much time and will never, ever change. They obsess on the wrong goals: the cool parties and their prestige when Reagan was king. Sorry Peggy, Carl and the like, but you provide cost and no value. Go get a job writing copy for an ad firm or something where you actually do work, or burn off that trust fund and write a book or something.
3. Identify partners that perform and reward them: Who stood by and was there for us? Do they add value? Take care of them and promote them.
4. Eliminate partners that don't contribute. Time is scarce and it's questionable if we have time for a confused Fox News. It really doesn't matter that much since broadcast media is for those too stupid to get it from the net, and the whole institution of "journalism" is nothing more than a leftist advocacy mechanism. Write it off and close it down.
Most importantly, let's not waste a damn day playing defense. Obama's going to be what we know he is. If you're pissed off with the outcome, then focus on how we fix things and help determine if this party is worth cleaning up through bankruptcy or not. We need to get this figured out quickly since Obama will need resistance that simply isn't there and the current Republican party is incapable of providing. Hell, someone's going to let Boehner re-apply for his House leadership? What part of FAIL don't you get, John? You're like the two-year 0-9 football coach that's proud of his record. Please... a random selection of your replacement would certainly do better.
Let's get to work on our bankruptcy filing, identify key leaders and put together modest objectives for 2010. Gain 15 House seats and 3-5 Senate seats, but more importantly, frame out the strategy for a lean government that will cease dependence upon hostile foreign debt and insane deficits to exist.
Posted by: redherkey at November 06, 2008 01:25 AM (kjqFg)
67 But, back to the point, what here sounds true to you? My bullshit meter is off the charts here.
I agree with you that the Africa thing is ridiculous, but honestly I wouldn't have been shocked at the NAFTA thing. The shopping spree stuff? Sadly I think that stuff has the ring of truth. A truth that has probably been spun several different ways, but...I dunno, perhaps I'm just in a cynical recriminatin' Allahpundit mood myself.
Here's the truth: people can be STUNNINGLY ignorant when it comes to subjects that they have no professional need to know about. With intellectually incurious people (as I am beginning to believe Palin, for all her other virtues, is), knowledge can often stop at the water's edge. I see it all the time in my personal life: people who are objectively EXTREMELY intelligent (top law schools, successful professionals in competitive fields, etc.) are stunningly ignorant when it comes to anything that doesn't directly affect them on a day-to-day basis. I get the sense that Palin is/was like this: she knew the ins and outs of Alaska politics very well, but when it came to foreign policy? Domestic economic policy? The national news media? She simply didn't know squat, not because she was stupid, but because she never had any professional need to and wasn't the sort of person to seek out such knowledge for her own benefit. It doesn't make her a bad person. It doesn't make her bad governor. It does make her a terrible national candidate, however. Palin and Bush can be somewhat compared in this sense, but honestly Palin strikes me as far worse than Bush.
Posted by: Jeff B. at November 06, 2008 01:25 AM (OEoRy)
re 61: here ya go
Posted by: Swegin at November 06, 2008 01:25 AM (q0Z3p)
69 So, this was like comment #5280 or so on the first Palin thread, so I'll repeat it here:
#54, Jay, thanks for that link.
All I can say is, if she decides "Screw it. I'm going to finish my time in Alaska and go back to the private sector," I can't say as I blame her, but we will have lost out on an opportunity for a truly great president.
It is just plain disgusting that the David Brooks (for example), who has never accomplished a single thing of use or value for the country, or any state, county, city, or neighborhood block association, could refer to this woman as a "cancer," or Chris Buckley could turn his sneering, pompous, intellectually vacuous but expensively-educated nose (can noses be anything but intellectually vacuous? Well, you get my drift) up at her, so much so that he would abandon his own choice in the primaries for a similarly sneering, pompous, intellectually vacuous but expensively educated proto-Marxist, with whom he supposedly shares not a single philosophical viewpoint --- gaaah.
Whole thing pisses me off too much. Maybe I'll just chuck the whole mess and go live in Alaska. Leave Brooks and Buckley and Cameron and all the faggot campaign staffers to their inside-the-beltway circle jerk.
Posted by: notropis at November 06, 2008 01:26 AM (8vxHo)
thanks for the link to that audio
Posted by: Mark at November 06, 2008 01:27 AM (EpUX6)
71 1. You can start with those who were on the vice presidential selection committee for McCain.
Why? Because it was this committee who didn't want Gov. Palin to be selected and was overridden by McCain.
2. Nicolle Wallace, who "prepared" Gov. Palin for the Charlie Gibson interview and, who set up the interview with Katie Couric. Gov. Palin was allegedly so upset with Nicolle after Gibson that she wasn't comfortable having Wallace help prepare her for Couric. Wallace was also the person who spent $150k for Palin's clothing and let Gov. Palin hang out to dry.
Posted by: Michelle's American White Racist at November 06, 2008 01:28 AM (NLtVk)
Too bad that the same standard doens't apply to Biden. How many errors did he make in his debate?
Heh. You're being generous in calling what Biden pulled out of his ass "errors". I'd say they were outright lies and they comprised about 90% of what he said during the debate.
Posted by: OregonMuse at November 06, 2008 01:29 AM (bMJ2V)
73 "intellectually incurious people (as I am beginning to believe Palin, for all her other virtues, is)"
Beginning to believe? Based on what?
Posted by: notropis at November 06, 2008 01:29 AM (8vxHo)
Geoff, How did McCain, Biden or Obama show more experience?
You're kidding, right?
I don't think anybody could argue that McCain or Biden were inexperienced at the federal level. Obama and Palin are inexperienced at the federal level.
Of the lot, Palin has the most managerial experience, and the best managerial track record. But that's not where she was hammered by the media, because that wasn't her weakness.
Obama survived only because he's been groomed and prepped since 2004. If Palin had the same advantage, she would have cleaned his clock and eaten the interviewers alive.
Posted by: geoff at November 06, 2008 01:29 AM (cpqad)
75 I have no patience for Michelle Malkin, who would gladly smear McCain if she had the insider information to do it.
McCain chose Palin. Primary voters chose McCain, not anybody else. Remember that.
Posted by: MayBee at November 06, 2008 01:30 AM (zI040)
76 redherkey: Damn straight. But how do *we* best act to get these things done?
First question: Who for RNC? (Who but Fred?) And how?
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 01:31 AM (zHoxL)
Too bad that the same standard doens't apply to Biden. How many errors did he make in his debate?
Biden's problem is not inexperience or lack of preparation - it's that he's a moron who has a fundamental disregard for truth. It's unfortunate that the media wasn't as interested in taking him to task as they were Palin, but that's not anything unusual.
Posted by: geoff at November 06, 2008 01:31 AM (cpqad)
78 Quite a bit of emasculation in the McCain campaign rank and file. Was it that they had to show her respect that ate at their gut? Was it that she is smarter than them? Makes more money than them? Perhaps it is that she is already a governor with better opportunities on the horizon while they will be stuck as gophers in political campaigns for the rest of their pathetic existance. There must have been an awful lot of domineering mothers for all of these men.
Grow a set, will ya boys!
Posted by: SUZIE Q. at November 06, 2008 01:34 AM (B/Y39)
79 "intellectually incurious people (as I am beginning to believe Palin, for all her other virtues, is)"
Have you read any of the interviews of people who knew her in her early life who said that she's a bookworm? You're buying into the media parody of Palin.
I really think Sarah needs to write a book to get her story out in her own words, along with her philosophy.
Posted by: Jim62sch at November 06, 2008 01:34 AM (6rQXk)
80 This is the ugliest I've ever seen it around here. We need some time to cool off, maybe even close the comments for a bit. We look like hell and if we aren't careful it's going to turn into the dailykos.....
Posted by: Alex at November 06, 2008 01:35 AM (4siCm)
81 Beginning to believe? Based on what?
Based on how she handled herself during the campaign in interviews and questioning. I was looking - looking REALLY HARD, understand - for any evidence that she had studied up on some of this material, had at least a working knowledge of important issues outside of talking points, and I didn't get it. I kept "not getting" that vibe so often that I finally am coming to believe it reflects an intellectual incuriosity. I'm sure she knows a lot more about foreign policy and national economic issues NOW, but you can't credit that to intellectual curiosity. The fact that she knew nothing about it prior to her selection is depressing: is it really too high a threshold to ask that a VP candidate have taken an interest in such matters BEFORE he/she gets the call? I mean, I'm just some random dude, and I've sought out information on how the world works, for god's sake. I would expect a POLITICIAN to know such things as well.
Posted by: Jeff B. at November 06, 2008 01:36 AM (OEoRy)
82 73 Too bad that the same standard doens't apply to Biden. How many errors did he make in his debate?Heh. You're being generous in calling what Biden pulled out of his ass "errors". I'd say they were outright lies and they comprised about 90% of what he said during the debate.
this is the only proof we have that BO is the messiah. He managed to resurect Ted Baxter as a running mate!
Posted by: SUZIE Q. at November 06, 2008 01:36 AM (B/Y39)
83 #81 Got to get it all out to move forward. This isn't any different than after the primaries except no one is left to defend McCain.
Posted by: David at November 06, 2008 01:37 AM (HAdov)
84 "We need some time to cool off"
The party needs a housecleaning. It's our party or the Beltway fat cats'.
And of course -- OF COURSE -- the trigger is the one figure who really IS one of us. The one they have to shit on for that, so that no one is left but their own.
But we tried that this time. He failed, and without her would have been wiped out in a Dukakis-like tidal wave of conservative apathy.
We're going to have to have this conflict, and we're going to have to have it over her.
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 01:38 AM (zHoxL)
85 Jeff B., I essentially agree with the thrust of your statement. One of the reasons I'm small government: nobody is smart enough to run the executive branch. Even on that that scale, we might still disagree on Palin's relative merits.
But, that's why I find sound underlying precepts to be worthy of recognition. Was it Mr. Mister who said, "Shine me a laser down the path that I should follow."? No one, no one is smart enough to run an entire country. I don't mind someone acknowledging that. She came the closest. I find that to be a virtue.
Posted by: counter at November 06, 2008 01:40 AM (8/0ME)
86 Jeff B,Don't give me the "gotcha question" excuse. Those questions weren't freakin' "gotchas." I'm calling bull shit here. The Katie Couric interview, which Nicolle Wallace set up, was completely and entirely gottcha questions. When you compare the interviews Couric had with Biden, McCain or Obama, where were the pop quiz questions for them?When did Couric challenge Biden, McCain or Obama to name 3 reforms that their mate had accomplished? It was like an oral exam for Gov. Palin rather than an opportunity for Gov. Palin to introduce herself.Nicolle Wallace worked for CBS before the McCain campaign as a political analysis. There was absolutely no excuse for exposing Gov. Palin to Katie Couric that early in the process. Gov. Palin's recognition amongst the American people was extremely limited at the time of the Gibson and Couric interviews. Couric basically had the liberty to paint Gov. Palin any way she wanted, which she did.
Posted by: Michelle's American White Racist at November 06, 2008 01:41 AM (NLtVk)
I should add to the Palin "experience" comments that had she even begun when Mitt Romney started, she wouldn't have had the scrutiny, and would have had plenty of time to ramp up. I really look forward to seeing how she handles Alaska in the coming years. Now that she's known nationally, the extra time in office will lend the gravitas of time passing in the public's mind.
The GOP has been terrible at recruiting, grooming, and promoting high quality political talent. Now that we have a star, we need to save her from being ruined by these ridiculous attacks.
Posted by: geoff at November 06, 2008 01:42 AM (cpqad)
88 someone/77: Who for RNC? (Who but Fred?) And how?
You nailed the hard question I danced around. In our private equity world, we ended up with a relentlessly hard external CEO who challenged every assumption and demanded quantitative proof in every area. Who out there in RNC-land has that capacity? Within the system, I see nothing but rot. I believe our solution is exogenous (outside of the system), but that's just conjecture. Top-down reform leadership kicks this all off as we've seen in our world. Eventually, the mediocre Congressmen and supporters get in line, but you have to get that core transformational executive team in place first to have a chance.
The new RNC head needs to be a turn-around expert, not a politician or even a future candidate. I'd look for a business transformation expert, not a pol. This isn't stuff committee meetings and speeches teaches. I completely disagree with putting Palin in this RNC leadership role, in spite of her initial Alaska reform cred. We need someone ruthless who will toss out decades of dead weight and lighten the boat and doesn't need to be liked at all (Rove figured this out and didn't mind being hated by all the Dems and more than half of his party - that's the kind of RNC reformer we need). I'm guessing this person is a true unknown and hopefully an outlier candidate will emerge just as our lovely black swan Palin popped up in this election, and have been posting and letting my Congressional contacts know that there are those of us here to support their rise.
Realistically, it's going to take a nontraditional reformer supported by the rogues in the House and the rare true conservatives in the Senate to pull this off. Lacking this level of reform, I guarantee 2010 will be a 60+ Democratic Senate, as things under Obama will continue to worsen but he will play Republican opposition to its max. This isn't time to retrench, it's time for counter-offense. We just need to find those who are willing to play it and get rid of those who can't. That said, we need to move now as Pelosi and Reid are preparing an aggressive agenday to force Barry to sign onto per his "mandate" and lacking resistance, we're going to give up some serious ground.
Posted by: redherkey at November 06, 2008 01:47 AM (kjqFg)
89 "I kept "not getting" that vibe"
Well, when you base your opinions on "vibes" or "thrills up your legs" or whatever else -- that's one way to live life.
Doesn't speak very well of your own "intellectual curiosity," or whatever, though.
You might notice, though, that it's pretty much SOP to drill into a (not top of the ticket) candidate, that their job is precisely to stay "on message," which means to incessantly repeat whatever talking points they were supposed to give.
When they don't, you risk ending up with Biden. And while Biden is apparently allowed to be Biden, the slightest Biden-esque slip would have sent Palin on a quick trip back to Alaska.
And when she sort of said, "fuck it, I'm not playing my handlers' game" (i.e. at the later rallies), she sounded mighty knowledgeable about a lot more than she could possibly have just crammed into her brain in the few weeks between September and October.
So maybe you ought to find out a little more about her, if you actually care. Her incredibly wide range of personal experiences, if nothing else, certainly doesn't suggest "intellectual incuriosity."
Posted by: notropis at November 06, 2008 01:48 AM (8vxHo)
90 Another problem the Rep party has, is the libertarian wing is fleeing it. It cost one Senate seat and forced a runoff in another. It almost cost McCain Montana and did cost him indiana and north carolina.
Posted by: David at November 06, 2008 01:48 AM (HAdov)
91 I just watched a taped CNN portion of Blitzers Situation room back on October 20th (for a project) and Romney was asked if Palin was qualified to be president and he didn't answer. He just said it was up to the voters to decide.
Posted by: The Oort Cloud at November 06, 2008 01:54 AM (nOQXA)
92 David and notropis... you point out a key factor: we seem to have gone completely tactical (which is natural when your party leadership decides to focus on responding to the other guy, rather than determining the battleground. Again, comments on McCain staffers deserving to never again work in this industry apply).
Is there a simple set of less-than-five foundational principles a going-forward party can align to? I'm somewhat the neo-libertarian, so I know I'm going to have a bias. For everyone contributing here, put yourself in Ben Franklin and John Adams' shoes: what would you advocate for a New America? Set aside polarizing issues and focus on universal truths. What would our set of principles look like? I'd throw out the following as it bothers me every single day, realizing my children are being sold into slavery to China due to the uncontrolled spending by our country club elites:
1. Smaller, cleaner and debt-free government: Our government will not be an imposition on us in what it costs. It will not borrow from other nations to provide services we cannot fund. It will reduce its footprint and provide superior value for the dollars we choose to spend on it.
What's that charter look like to you all? Where do we move back on offense and send a message that is more than the pathetic tactical nonsense McCain sent?
Posted by: redherkey at November 06, 2008 02:05 AM (kjqFg)
93 There was no towel -- it was a hotel bathrobe. Big fucking deal.
Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 06, 2008 02:11 AM (b3SFk)
94 "The new RNC head needs to be a turn-around expert, not a politician or
even a future candidate. I'd look for a business transformation expert,
not a pol."
The problem is, as Romney found out, politics ISN'T business. The management skills are similar, but you can't keep changing what you sell to market demands.
Politics takes real ideology. The packaging of that can vary with demand, but not the core. We need somebody who believes with us, not sell out our principles, and proof of that is going to be damned hard to find in an unknown.
The combination of skills AND VISION is the problem. But again, how are we going to affect the process? We can't say "do this", we need to pick a person and try to drum up support.
Posted by: someone at November 06, 2008 03:08 AM (zHoxL)
95 Take the I support Operation Leper Pledge. No support for any candidate who hires any of these people.
Posted by: Greg Q at November 06, 2008 05:32 AM (87k2j)
96 2 things: fuck michelle malkin, who did everything she could to defeat McCain and
b. Palin sucked as a candidate. Sorry "base", but it's true. You want to call people empty suits, Palin is the emptiest. NO excuse for her ignorance on foreign affairs and other subjects she blew. Does the woman not read a newspaper? Does she not know any history?
Who among us who reads this forum is so stupid they have no idea, no idea at all, what the Bush Doctrine is? I'm not blaming her for the loss, but she was not just a net drag, she probably cost McCain a couple states. I was embarrassed for my own sex due to that woman's ignorance.
Posted by: ms. docweasel at November 06, 2008 06:10 AM (SOSlE)
97 docweasel, you are such a moron. Go take a long walk off a short pier, bitch.
Posted by: Evil at November 06, 2008 07:27 AM (AtP8n)
98 Palin sucked as a candidate. Sorry "base", but it's true. You want to call people empty suits, Palin is the emptiest.
Yeah she really sucked; that's why she drew such large crowds and kicked Biden's ass in the debates, you empty cunt. Go stink up Kos with the rest of the dumb twats.
Posted by: Captain Hate at November 06, 2008 08:23 AM (m2sQh)
99 This is McCain sticking once again sticking a shiv in the backs on conservatives. He is a fucking egotistical piece of fucking shit, and will go back to the senate to fellate every fucking reporter and Dem.
And, ms docweasel, go fuck you yourself.
Posted by: Manco at November 06, 2008 08:48 AM (I9wCY)
100 Well if drawing crowds is your criteria for greatness, I guess you think Obama is tits.
Defending Palin merely because she's the sole hard-right conservative politician of national stature left is sad for you, because the woman is not the star I and others had hoped she'd be. She is truly as vapid and vacuous as people accuse Dubya as being. Have fun with this ditz as your hero for the next 4 years :p
Posted by: ms. docweasel at November 06, 2008 09:40 AM (SOSlE)
101 I've taught high schoolers in public schools for years. I will tell you all this: less than 1% of the students I've taught could have ever developed the ability to give the convention speech Palin gave, perform in the debates as well as Palin, do stump speeches as well, or handle themselves with such poise and grace. She is gifted and anyone who thinks a dumb person could do those things is absurd.
Posted by: LeRoy the Gentile at November 06, 2008 09:47 AM (oSBvm)
102 She is truly as vapid and vacuous as people accuse Dubya as being. Have fun with this ditz as your hero for the next 4 years
You know that how? Did one of your fucking magic crystals tell you that or was it the tinfoil hat? Those mindreading powers of yours are really impressive; let me try it. You must be a really bitter dried up harridan to make up such delusional garbage about somebody you've never met and barely seen and not understand her connection to conservatives. Your social life must really suck for you to be that way. Try scrubbing hard with soap between your legs and maybe things will get better. Probably not but maybe.
Posted by: Captain Hate at November 06, 2008 09:53 AM (m2sQh)
103 The most irritating thing is the conservative bloggers, who tepidly supported McCain, or in Malkin's case not at all, now blasting him for losing. The "base" never liked him and contributed to his loss. So now blasting him for losing is kind of rich. Exactly who is the White Knight who could have saved the Republicans this year/
Personally, I'm sure not hitching my wagon to Palin for 2012. The sole criteria for Palin's popularity is that she is seen as conservative. Well, if you are that shallow, fine, go for it, but be prepared for 8 years of Obama then, because I don't see her defeating Obama unless there is a great disaster, and if there is, she will have plenty of competition.
I still think McCain ran as good a campaign as any GOP member could have. The tide was just too strong against him. Most the people I talk to voted against GWB and the GOP, not for Obama or against McCain. So all this is just conservatives, who hated and hate McCain anyway, getting their digs in. If they can keep sticking it to McCain, then I think Palin should get her share. She was my hero when chosen, but a HUGE disappointment in interviews and the debate.
Lastly, you have some stupid students if you can tell immediately who cannot "develop" those skills you speak of, even 30 years out of highschool as Palin is. They must be extraodinarily stupid to be so obviously dull that you can with certainty say 30 years of life experience, college, and extra-curricular learning will never allow them to make a decent speechifier, which even the very stupidest of politicians seems to have mastered.
I hope they know what the Bush Doctrine is.
Posted by: ms. docweasel at November 06, 2008 09:54 AM (SOSlE)
104 McCain should never have hired Romney people for his campaign. Didn't he suspect that those people would try to sabotage him? Their loyalties were never with McCain/Palin. You could see it in every interview Mitt did that he was pissed off.
Posted by: Suzy at November 06, 2008 11:07 AM (ucAOI)
105 She is truly as vapid and vacuous as people accuse Dubya as being.
Project much, weasel?
Posted by: toby928: Caesarist at November 06, 2008 11:32 AM (evdj2)
106 Good. This is not vindictiveness, merely setting standards of decorum and behavior. To wit:
"Conversely, he should not be blind to a single fault in any subordinate, though at the same time, he should be quick and unfailing to distinguish error from malice, thoughtlessness from incompetency, and well meant shortcomings from heedless or stupid blunder."
John Paul Jones (sort of)
The anti-Palin actions are malice, incompetency, and blunder. There is more than enough talent to make up for the loss of these "ladies and gentleman" from the cause. Press on.
Posted by: Horatius at November 06, 2008 12:00 PM (BR5vS)
107 Michelle's angry. Whooptifuckindoo. If this would have been a rumor about McCain - oh, say about immigration - made by an anonymous source, Michelle would have jumped up and down for joy and made it a 24 hour news cycle. Oh, wait,,that happened.
What a hypocrite.
Posted by: Ann at November 06, 2008 12:15 PM (c3H+i)
108 Is carl Cameron gay? He sure came off that way, no offense to gays. As he started "dishing" he became so gleeful that he forgot even to qualify what he was saying as "according to...." I agree, the bathrobe thing was completely over the top, nuts.
I can't believe she though Africa was a "country" but as long assuch claims are being made, it's going to a problem for Palin if she harbors presidential ambitions.
It's a real disappointment, she was the only thing that brought any excitement to the campaign. As for these staffers attacking her anonymously, I can't see how anyone would ever want to hire them again. I certainly won't vote for any campaign that does, I know that. And I'm through with Fox News, except for the evening shows. Hannity and those folks can't be held responsible for Cameron. Otherwise, radioand blogs areall we have now, till Obama shuts them down. Maybe he'll make Carl Cameron press secretary in his next administration.
Posted by: Liberace at November 06, 2008 12:30 PM (sKPmg)
109 44 -- tigers don''t eat their young. That's hyenas.
Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 06, 2008 12:46 PM (n7hY1)
110 re: 108 Ann
Posted by: ms. docweasel at November 06, 2008 02:45 PM (SOSlE)
111 If you want to do something serious about supporting Palin in 2012, I would suggest doing two things:
Get a used copy of Heinlein's Take Back Your Government! and read it.
Join your local Republican Precinct committee if you aren't already a member. Get some minions ( from this blog and others ) to join said committee with you.
Implement the notions in the aformentioned book.
Take over your local party apparatus.
Posted by: Kristopher at November 06, 2008 02:56 PM (EqbaN)
112 I hope they know what the Bush Doctrine is.
Why? You don't. I don't. And Charlie Gibson sure as hell didn't. The press has been pointing at every dump Bush has laid in the Oval crapper and declaring it "The Bush Doctrine" since 9/11. Just ask Charlie "I used to refer to The Bush Doctrine as A but have decided to change my definition to whatever Sarah Palin doesn't say it is for this particular interview" Gibson.
What a pathetic vein of attack. Yeah, it's Sarah Palin -- the woman who drew rockstar crowds of excited conservatives wherever she went -- who's at fault for McCain's quasi-slaughter and not John "I've made my bones sticking you dumb racist xenophobic rednecks in the eye for over a decade now go vote for me dumbasses" McCain. Got it.
Posted by: VJay at November 06, 2008 03:02 PM (gQ+XA)
113 I"m not saying it is. I'm saying she didn't help as much as you seem to think, she surely was a net drag in the final analysis (his fault for picking her, sure) and garnering crowds? That didn't translate into jack. Palin had HUGE crowds in FL. Remind me again who won FL?
She's the darling of conservatives because they are so intellectually bankrupt she is their only choice for a leader, no other conservatives around of national stature, which more than anything tells you the status of hard right conservatism at the moment (or actually, since Reagan, since neither Dole nor Bush are all that far right conservative, if conservative at all).
Which is pathetic and sad, and the reason the "hard right" is probably deader than it was at the beginning of this election cycle, when they settled on Mitt Fucking Romney as their god, a guy so conservative he can get elected Gov of Massachusetts and was to the LEFT of Kennedy on some issues. So, they jettison the smart, experienced but unelectable opportunistic guy for a vapid, ignorant pretty face who has the right stand on the issues. Sucks to be you, far righties.
Posted by: ms. docweasel at November 06, 2008 04:06 PM (SOSlE)
Posted by: Fish at November 06, 2008 04:17 PM (6Rihj)
115 Senator McCain himself is being quoted using disparaging remarks about Gov. Palin - this is coming from the top down, looking for someone to blame.
Posted by: Mark at November 06, 2008 05:08 PM (kYPk3)
116 Nicole Wallace's political head better be on a freakin platter by the time '10 rolls around.
Posted by: G at November 06, 2008 07:49 PM (FAYNo)
117 This party needs to do some serious reorganizing. the illuminati left has taken the entire Capitol and left the Republicans in shambles. There is no definite leader anymore and there is no real direction. The first order of business should be a purging, a purging of the entire party followed shortly by a presidential campaign for Palin.
Posted by: RJ at November 06, 2008 11:01 PM (7nbTg)
118 VANITY FAIR-a-LANCHE
or something. Wolcott links to Ace and Jeff G. ... and TBogg
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