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California's Prop 8 (To Ban Gay Marriage) Ahead with 72% In
Edge Slipping As More Votes Come In

Just a bit, 52-48.
This was the commercial that turned Prop 8 from a likely loser to a likely winner:

Gay marriage supporters rebutted this ad, and then these guys responded with a really blistering ad that rubbished the rebuttal:


The moment I saw these ads my eyebrows went up and I thought, "Wow, those can change the whole election."

I sometimes grow weary with political experts like Karl Rove speaking so much about "the message." "The message," I tend to think, is PR nonsense; it's the facts that matter.

Well, this is why they pay guys like Karl Rove a lot of money. "The message" can win.

(Just to clarify, Karl Rove, My Dark Netherlord, had nothing at all to do with any of these ads.)

Posted by: Ace at 05:39 AM



Comments

1 Rove is a sharp cat.

I wanted to say thanks for all the work. I hope that you know what an island of sanity AoSHQ has been for me and a ton of others.

Posted by: Mr. Chumpo at November 05, 2008 05:51 AM (i73Rf)

2 Another strong ad in favor of Prop8 was this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKn5LNhNto It has Gavin Newsom, the prick SanFran mayor, proclaiming gay marriage was coming to the country "whether you like it or not." I barely voted against prop 8, on anti-statist grounds. I still feel it is morally wrong, and the people have a right to legislate against same sex marriage. But I voted 'no' anyway. So I appear to be on a 100% losing streak tonight. My state assemblyman lost, McCain lost, I was on the losing side on the gay marriage and animal rights propositions, I even voted for losers on school boards. Man, I'm probably the biggest loser in America right now.

Posted by: wooga at November 05, 2008 05:51 AM (IhzyJ)

3 as promised I delivered Missouri and the rest of the country fucked me... well I'm off to do something I shouldn't...

Posted by: Kaptain Amerika at November 05, 2008 05:52 AM (Zux3z)

4 So the the country elects Obama, Murtha gets re-elected after calling the retards of Pennsylvania retards and California might ban gay marriage?  What the fuck?  I guess black is white and up is down.

Posted by: Darth Randall at November 05, 2008 05:55 AM (oLULt)

5 For the record:  I did vote McCain.  I had to after watching him--in context--itemize how he'd eviscerate the US military.

All for naught.

Anyway, I was listening to Megadeth's "Reckoning Day" and I was looking for musical recommendations whilst I continue becoming hammered.

Posted by: Herr Blücher at November 05, 2008 05:57 AM (jAjTh)

6 join me if you have the ballz...

Posted by: Kaptain Amerika at November 05, 2008 05:58 AM (Zux3z)

7 Uh, "him" being "The One."

Posted by: Herr Blücher at November 05, 2008 05:59 AM (jAjTh)

8 try these favorite tunes to die too...

"Hall of the Mountain King"
"Inquisition Symphony"
"you don't know what you're fighting for"
"broken"
"imperial march"
"I don't care if you Die"
"Apologize"
"Kill'em All"
"Master of Puppets"

Posted by: Kaptain Amerika at November 05, 2008 06:01 AM (Zux3z)

9 The passage of these gay marriage bans here and (I think) in Arizona and Florida make me think this election isn't the lurch to the Left that many are claiming it to be.

But right now I have insomnia, so I'm not sure what it is.

Posted by: Phineas at November 05, 2008 06:05 AM (xPqjs)

10 Prop 2 appears to be winning too, which means all our food will cost even more. Yay! I'm sure pretty much everyone who voted for it did so on the basis of the title. How can you not support animal rights? You don't like cute little animals? You must be an evil baby-eating Republican! Not sure how much of an effect this will have on the rest of you guys, since I think most of our agricultural exports are vegetables/grains.

I voted no on 8 myself, simply because I'm a wild-eyed libertarian type and oppose any government role in marriage whatsoever. Unfortunately, due to the historical meddling of government, "marriage" is a package deal of a whole bunch of disparate things, like power of attorney and combined tax filings, that would be very convenient for a lot of relationships, whether romantic, familiar, etc., but are very hard to get outside of a marriage contract or other government-endorsed relationship, such as parent/guardian. With that said, I can't say I'll have sleepless nights over 8 passing, especially with the much more concerning national issues we have after tonight.

Posted by: Slowking Man at November 05, 2008 06:09 AM (shkE3)

11

With north of 80% of precincts reporting, Prop 8 is winning by about 300,000 votes.

However, a significant chunk of the precincts that haven't yet reported are from Santa Clara county, which covers Silicon Valley, where votes are running about 55%-45% against.

That said, there are also a bunch of precincts from notoriously-conservative Orange county which haven't reported, either.

Bottom line: still too close to call. Don't stay up.

 

Posted by: BC at November 05, 2008 06:09 AM (yXiDd)

12 I recognize a few of those.  I'll add a couple:

Overkill: "Where it Hurts"
Wrathchild America: "Surrounded by Idiots"

Posted by: Herr Blücher at November 05, 2008 06:09 AM (jAjTh)

13 Cross post from the other thread

Prop 8 - 82% in +315,000 yes

Almost all no counties in.  Only ~40,000 no votes left to pickup in those counties.  Yolo, Santa Clara and Monterey are only no counties left.  Time for an ace of spaces decision desk call.

Posted by: David at November 05, 2008 06:11 AM (HAdov)

14 Posted by: Slowking Man at November 05, 2008 06:09 AM (shkE3)

so you like the idea of giving little kids to cross dressers, pedophiles and transgendereds to raise however the hell they want?


Posted by: Kaptain Amerika at November 05, 2008 06:13 AM (Zux3z)

15 It won and I hope it hut Andrew's ass and his heart. Pay back for his poking and thrashing in Palin's uterus and his creepy obsession of a little downs baby.

Posted by: Topsecretk9 at November 05, 2008 06:15 AM (Q8o0d)

16 There were more No on Prop 8 signs in my hood than Obama signs. I expect a gay riot this weekend.

Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 05, 2008 06:15 AM (7QXqh)

17 82.1 reporting 51 yes, 48 no.

Posted by: Topsecretk9 at November 05, 2008 06:18 AM (Q8o0d)

18 I expect to give the exact same support X10 to President Obama that
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have given to President Bush. Viva la LOYAL OPPOSITION!

Was the alliance with the PUMAs was a one night stand or can we respect each other in the morning?
As far as I'm concerned the Republican party is dead. It needs to be replaced with something new or there needs to be a massive bloodletting. Not figuratively, but literally. Someone like Ted Nugent needs to be the face of the new party or new Republican party. Not the fuckin pussies that are there now. I want a party that isn't going to confirm a Judge Ginsburg (only 2 or 3 nays) especially after the beatdown the dems gave to Bork.

PS. I guess we get to really find out whether "7 years without a terrorist attack on US soil was a fluke or because of Bush"? I think it's absolutely necessary and patriotic to ask this question often.

Posted by: liontooth at November 05, 2008 06:22 AM (n3pxb)

19 This is the third time I have voted to have marriage defined as that between a man and a woman. They will attack marriage again. You can count on it.

Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 05, 2008 06:24 AM (7QXqh)

20 visit my site Lion, I'm on that NEW Conservative Movement  thang!

Posted by: Kaptain Amerika at November 05, 2008 06:27 AM (Zux3z)

21 +314,000 yes with 84% of the vote in.  Santa Clara 2/3 in.  Unless yes counties swing violently to no, this is a done deal.

Posted by: David at November 05, 2008 06:27 AM (HAdov)

22 Not to get off topic, but while Karl Rove is sharp and an all-around brilliant strategist, Alex Gage, despite his work in 2004, is never mentioned.

Looking at the static turn-out numbers from 2004, this election was winnable. But with the anemic Republican turn-out and the ridiculously low GOP voter contact numbers, his skills in dicing up the electorate by novel demographics and then selectively targeting them was just as missing from the McCain camp. And I wonder why, funding?

Posted by: Vince at November 05, 2008 06:31 AM (63zCu)

23 so prop 8 won then?

you know what disturbs me the most about this? that parents have no legal right to remove children from these lessons. who the fuck do these people think they are?

Posted by: fireweed at November 05, 2008 06:35 AM (uUo56)

24 Fuck libertairanism. If you are for less gov. and less spending, fine. No problem.

But when you demand all your other bozo shit, piss off. If people wanted that crap, you would have your own viable party. So, they want to mold the republican party to their liking. Go form a party with allahpundit. Call it he lonely guy losertarian party.

Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 05, 2008 06:37 AM (7QXqh)

25 I voted for Prop. 2, because all it requires is the basic human decency most consumers assume is already being practiced by their meat producers.

I also voted against Prop. 8, although I understand the frustration with liberal activist judges that motivated it.

Other than those two, my votes followed the CA GOP recommendations.

(Man, I still can't get my mind around the fact that Obama is President.  I do plan on treating the office of the presidency with more respect than the leftists did, but man, four years sure feels like a long time right now, doesn't it?)

Posted by: sandy burger at November 05, 2008 06:42 AM (/xvEr)

26 The no on prop 8 ads are whacky. Weird looking gay couples are not good spokeholes. The one defending the gay marriage field trip is also nuts.

Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 05, 2008 06:43 AM (7QXqh)

27
#14:

"Giving kids to," as in adoption? Maybe not, since the criteria should be for selecting people who are mentally and financially stable and likely to give the child an environment conducive to development. Which has nothing to do with marriage, since the only requirements for marriage in the U.S. are that both parties are legal adults, able to give legal consent (e.g. not in a coma), and in most states, one is male and the other is female. Married persons aren't required to give birth to or raise children, and they aren't required to raise children in any particular way. Even if a married couple abuses a child, the state will take the child away, but not dissolve the marriage.

Now, I presume the "mental soundness" criteria, if adequately enforced, would prohibit pedophiles, and quite possibly a number of cross-dressers and transsexuals, as they may have stability issues. If they are adequately sound, then I see no objection. Should only people who share your views and cultural norms be permitted to raise children? Should we, for instance, make it illegal to be a single mother or father? Or to have children if you're bisexual?

Posted by: Slowking Man at November 05, 2008 06:43 AM (shkE3)

28 I voted for Prop. 2...

Thanks for forcing the poultry industry out of California! More jobs lost. Yippee!

I also voted against Prop. 8, although I understand the frustration with liberal activist judges that motivated it.

So, who's the lucky guy you're hitching up with?

Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 05, 2008 06:46 AM (7QXqh)

29 So, who's the lucky guy you're hitching up with?

That would be me.  I'm the pirate to his perineum.

Posted by: pirate of the perineum at November 05, 2008 06:52 AM (c3QiE)

30 Slowking man, no offense but you seem to be unaware of how the erosion of family can be traced to the idea that either a mother or father are dispensible to child rearing. "Two loving parents" is great, but kids need male and female role models. I'm not saying they are automatically fucked up if they don't get that, but I as the single mother of a little boy can recognise that I have no idea what it is like to be a little boy. A father would be able to provide better than I can those ways of knowing in little boyhood. I can't and if I had a lesbian lover (wife, whatever), as much as we might adore each other, she wouldn't be able to provide it either.

You can also thank Gloria Steinem-style feminism for that shit, with her constant degradation of males and calls to raise boys like we raise girls. This does little girls no favors either.

Posted by: fireweed at November 05, 2008 06:53 AM (uUo56)

31 What?  No love for Wrathchild America?

Posted by: Herr Blücher at November 05, 2008 06:53 AM (jAjTh)

32 Was the alliance with the PUMAs was a one night stand or can we respect each other in the morning?

My personal opinion:

I think the PUMAs are awesome.  They broke ranks with their party when it was on the upswing.  Imagine if we had done the same when ours was the party of Trent Lott and Ted Stevens!

Look, Bill Clinton seems awful to many of us, but he genuinely was a centrist Democrat (e.g. NAFTA, welfare reform, the DLC, etc.).  Whether or not we understand it, quite a few Democrats see him almost as we see Ronald Reagan, and see Hillary as a hypothetical Nancy Reagan with a political career and a passion for promoting those same ideas we liked in her spouse.  We don't have to agree with this, or "get" it, but it is the way they see it, and at the end of the day, there are far worse things a fellow American could believe.

The PUMAs are not us.  They are quite a bit more left-wing.  But come on, so is half of America.  I don't agree with the PUMAs on very many things, but I still respect them very very much.

Posted by: sandy burger at November 05, 2008 07:00 AM (/xvEr)

33 The PUMAs are the very same Democrats who were calling us "NAZIs" for the last eight years.  They were aligned with us for this one issue due to Hillary being slighted.

That's it.

Posted by: Herr Blücher at November 05, 2008 07:06 AM (jAjTh)

34 the ads from Yes on 8 = Awe-fucking-some

I like the PUMAs, too, and I know hillbuzz is a buncha queer fellas (with northern midwest accent), but I'll be damned if we let gay marriage come to pass in this country.  I stoppped it where I am, and glad CA is stopping it there.  It's mushy-headed bullshit, and even more likely than the Obama presidency (shudder) to cause the mass of AMericans to check out from society

Oh well, here's hoping the Obama SS has snazzy uniforms

Posted by: moronizer at November 05, 2008 07:47 AM (n++Yj)

35

"his skills in dicing up the electorate by novel demographics and then selectively targeting them was just as missing from the McCain camp. And I wonder why, funding?"

This was Gage's work?  I always assumed it was Rove's but whatever; I did thousands of voter ID calls in 2006 using their leftover gameplan from Ohio 2004, and I got real tired of asking voters about abortion, the 10 Commandments and guns in order to pigeon-hole them.  And I say that as a certified prolife, Catholic and NRA-endorsed candidate myself.  The questions seemed to be framed to set off ignorant hayseeds, somewere else, and didn't suit the local populace. I constantly had to rewrite and shorten the questions.   One time I had to describe partial-birth abortion to some old gal who didn't know what it was and she freaked out, started yelling at me and  hung up.  

Everyone is worn out I think. Even the evangelicals have cracked up over social issues and gone their separate ways.   Basically, the wars have gone on too long and now the economy's in the tank.   And the people who want the GOP to reform itself want what - to ditch the socialcons, or their opposite?  I'm getting mixed messages.

Glad your Prop 8 passed though.

 

 

Posted by: cassandra at November 05, 2008 08:22 AM (7FHFq)

36 People keep saying it was the economy but it was the democrats who fucked it up. So, again, either the electorate is stupid or the msm has framed the message to protect the Barney Franks of the world.

Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 05, 2008 08:47 AM (7QXqh)

37 The No on Prop 8 people complain that the opposition lied and changed the issue into gays and lesbians imposing their agenda on our elementary school children. But, what else can you call what you they were doing? Books on gay marriage for young people? Field trips to gay weddings? Kindergarteners signing gay pledges?

Nevertheless good luck to pirate of the perineum and Sandy on their upcoming domestic partnership.

Posted by: Marcus Antonius at November 05, 2008 08:59 AM (7QXqh)

38

I voted for Prop. 2, because all it requires is the basic human decency most consumers assume is already being practiced by their meat producers.

Don't know anything about this prop because I live in Florida now, but my first job as a teenager growing up in San Diego was on a chicken ranch. Teenage boys are none too kind to chickens.

Course you start to hate them after a while when you reach in to grab one out of a cage and they jump bang your hand against till it's bloodied. Or if you're giving a wing web vaccination and you stick your hand instead. And what's really gross is because there were so many in a cage if one died, they'd all step on the dead body till it was stuck in the ground and when you pulled it out, the body would pop, pop, pop because it was stuck to the cage. 

Grrrrrrrrr! Ok, must stop thinking about it, as much as I grew to hate chickens, it was a looong time before I could eat an egg again ( I was a candler on weekdays) it was pretty cruel the way the chickens were treated. It's not unreasonable to give them a little space before the Campbell Soup truck comes to take them to their final resting place.

 

And also, why couldn't McCain have run a campaign the way the Prop 8 proponents ran theirs?

Posted by: pajama momma at November 05, 2008 08:59 AM (f3xJa)

39 man, that didn't even sound rational did it? I freaking hate chickens

Posted by: pajama momma at November 05, 2008 09:03 AM (f3xJa)

40

Posted by: moronizer at November 05, 2008 07:47 AM (n++Yj)

The fight ain't over yet, chump.  Around 61% against same-sex marriage 8 years ago whittled down to about 52% now?  Pathetic last gasp of the religious right nutjobs.  I predicted 55% so this was a surprise to me.  I can see now that it's only a matter of time.  Remember that this process your guys exploited only takes 50.1% to pass an amendment.  How much longer do you think it'll be before the Golden State approves same-sex marriage?  This is assuming of course that the California courts don't just toss out Prop 8 for being an unconstitutional revision.  Weird system Californians have.  Amendment by mere majority?  Revision/amendment?  Truly weird.  The other legal fight now in the courts is to protect the marriage licenses of those married prior to yesterday.  The battle is still joined...

Posted by: John at November 05, 2008 09:51 AM (FjZp4)

41 The SF/Hollywood gay mafia think they can mau-mau California residents into a broad range of anti-family social changes.

Prop 8 is more about Californians rejecting wide-ranging fruit loop social issues than it is about religion.

#40 thinks Californians are religious zealots? Thats a laff riot. Pure comedy gold John.


Posted by: 13times at November 05, 2008 10:43 AM (rPixX)

42 Keep telling yourself that, 13times.  It ain't over, and given the slim margin of victory you know I'm right.  You guys lost about 9% support for the ban in just 8 years.  How many more do you think it'll be before we have this ban scrapped?  :-) 

Posted by: John at November 05, 2008 10:49 AM (KO2Ix)

43 The 9th circuit can, and will, overturn prop 8 but cultural Marxists can no longer claim that gay marriage is the will of the people.

You will win John but it will expose the gay mafia for what it truly is - a litigious, anti-democratic pressure group.


Posted by: 13times at November 05, 2008 11:05 AM (rPixX)

44 Ummm... you forgot the rebuttal to the rebuttal Gabe.

Don't be fucking dishonest on this blog, dude.  Let people decide for themselves.  How could you not even mention the existence of the rebuttal to that rebuttal ad?

Posted by: dan-O at November 05, 2008 11:21 AM (AEBFS)

45 On "message"  - Obama owes his win to a master "message maker" - David Axelrod. I am from Chicago and have seen this guy at work for years. He is the sleaziest guy around - but he knows what he is doing.

Posted by: ethel at November 05, 2008 11:22 AM (i8F95)

46

The 9th circuit can, and will, overturn prop 8 but cultural Marxists can no longer claim that gay marriage is the will of the people.

The 9th Circuit won't touch this, I was speaking about the CA Supreme Court.  The lawsuit will be under the CA Constitution - not the U.S.  Beats me how they'll rule but since they were the ones that tossed out Prop 22 in the summer, who knows?  There is a case to be made here about an unconstitutional revision (CA Con, not U.S.).   

You will win John but it will expose the gay mafia for what it truly is - a litigious, anti-democratic pressure group.

Blah, blah, blah.  Judging from the returns this morning I'd say you religious right nutjobs haven't been the greatest of friends to the GOP and were handed your ass as well.  At least we are making progress while you folks are steadily losing ground...    Now, you want to talk about taxes, defense, etc., not a problem and I'll gladly stand with you.  Keep putting this kind of crap forward and the GOP will remain as stagnant as it is now.

Posted by: John at November 05, 2008 11:30 AM (KO2Ix)

47 My bad - Not 9th circuit.

How did Prop 8 pass in a state where Obama won handily yet gay marriage couldn't muster the same numbers? Prop 2 passed but not gay marriage? High speed rail bonds but not gay marriage? Tell me how those numbers work.

Lots of pro Obama supporters rejected "San Francisco values" and voted yes on 8. Again, Tell me how those numbers work.

John, admit it, you're a far left anti-democratic Marxist and thus support thwarting the electoral process via judicial oversight.



 

Posted by: 13times at November 05, 2008 11:53 AM (rPixX)

48 Lots of pro Obama supporters rejected "San Francisco values" and voted yes on 8. Again, Tell me how those numbers work.

It's quite simple, really.  Blacks overwhelmingly hate gays.

That's the elephant in the room for gay-rights supporters because bringing it up is "racist".

That's also the elephant in the room for whites who hate gays because they don't align with blacks on many other things.  Think about it: your allies, the people who hate gays even more reliably than you do, also think that the government should force you to pay them for slave reparations.  40 acres and a mule for hating gays?  Would you take it?

/Yes, you will, but you won't talk about it

Posted by: SuprKufr at November 05, 2008 12:05 PM (Xm81b)

49

It's quite simple, really.  Blacks overwhelmingly hate gays.

That's how it worked here in Florida as well. I don't know about hate, but their majority Baptist upbringing, makes it immoral in their eyes.

Posted by: pajama momma at November 05, 2008 12:10 PM (f3xJa)

50 Fuck libertairanism.  If you are for less gov. and less spending, fine. No problem.  But when you demand all your other bozo shit, piss off.

That "bozo shit" is also called liberty.  Meaning, I can do whatever the fuck I please as long as it doesn't deprive you of life, liberty, or property.

You can't abide that.  You want to meddle in other people's lives.  If they are doing "bozo shit", then they must be punished.  You authoritarian thug.  Oh, and fuck Jesus Christ, too.  That's called "freedom of speech".

Posted by: SuprKufr at November 05, 2008 12:11 PM (Xm81b)

51 I don't know about hate, but their majority Baptist upbringing, makes it immoral in their eyes.

My bad.  They express "Christian love" toward gays.

Posted by: SuprKufr at November 05, 2008 12:12 PM (Xm81b)

52 It's quite simple, really.  Blacks overwhelmingly hate gays.

ah yes, the oft unaccounted Compton voter backlash.

Supr, do you even live in California? there aren't enough black folks to push Prop 8 to a win.

White secular-democrats rejected Prop 8. W


Let me type it again.


White leftists rejected Prop 8.

Posted by: 13times at November 05, 2008 12:22 PM (rPixX)

53

How did Prop 8 pass in a state where Obama won handily yet gay marriage couldn't muster the same numbers?

The money from the religious right & the LDS certainly helped greatly when combined with the idiocies of the liberal gay activist groups.  You won, believe me I get that.  Yet you also barely won - losing 9 percentage points in 8 years.  Savor the victory for now but don't be surprised when in a few years it's overturned.  Weird system you guys have but amendments only need 50.1% to pass.  Based on how badly the Right has lost support in the last 8 years for this ban, it looks like we can have it repealed in 2 years or so.  Probably a bit longer, depends on many things.  Watche as same-sex marriage though gains ground in New York and New Jersey, both of which will sway California for a repeal. 

John, admit it, you're a far left anti-democratic Marxist and thus support thwarting the electoral process via judicial oversight.

Yadda, yadda, yadda.  And you support tyranny of the majority while civil rights are nothing but a plaything for the ballot box.  Keep that in mind when you start bitching about guns, religion, or whatever else you feel others are taking from you.  I'm sure that social conservatism is pure Republicanism to you, but it ain't for all of us.  Last night sucked on many levels besides this amendment:  Obama won.  Murtha won.  Stuart Smiley may still win.  Etc. Etc. Etc.  Get it through your head that not all Republicans or GOP-leaning voters are religious nutjobs.  The more you keep making that mistake the more the GOP will continue to take it on the chin at the polls.

Posted by: John at November 05, 2008 12:57 PM (KO2Ix)

54 John,
There were a lot of people who voted 'no' on Prop8, including myself, who will not vote 'yes' on a subsequent pro-SSM proposition.  There is a big difference between 'not wanting to take rights away' and 'giving new rights out.'  Plus, look at the age break down of the Prop8 yes votes: a surprising number of young voters are against gay marriage.  There is no way gay marriage will be resurrected in California for at least 20 years.


Keep that in mind when you start bitching about guns, religion, or whatever else you feel others are taking from you.

There are Constitutional provisions specifically guaranteeing religious and gun rights.  There is no such provision guaranteeing gay marriage rights - only an inference from a presumption of a penumbra.  I'll take the pro-SSM movement more seriously when they recognize that:
right to privacy + right to contract = right to prostitution.
So stop cramming your uptight morality on me, and let me have my whores!

Posted by: wooga at November 05, 2008 03:34 PM (t9sT5)

55

My bad.  They express "Christian love" toward gays.

Yes, seeing something as a sin is certainly hatred.

 

Posted by: pajama momma at November 05, 2008 03:48 PM (f3xJa)

56 Yes, seeing something as a sin is certainly hatred.

You are one full-of-shit Christian among many.  Allow me to explain.

Gluttony is a sin.  It is equal to receptive gay ass-fucking in the eyes of God.  Period.

And yet, the churches are filled to the brim with lard-ass Christians!

Tell me, do Christians treat gays and gluttons with the exact same level of contempt given that they are both obviously living in sin?

Additionally, are you overweight?  Do not bear false witness.

Posted by: SuprKufr at November 05, 2008 05:21 PM (Xm81b)

57 P.S.  I corrected myself, pajama momma.  Christians don't hate gays.  They just show "Christian love".

Posted by: SuprKufr at November 05, 2008 05:23 PM (Xm81b)

58

Nope, I'm a libertarian. Not a ron paul libertarian, I'm more of a Neal Boorz libertarian. I don't care if someone's a hooker. I don't care if people smoke weed. I don't care if gay people get married. I just don't think it's ok to say blacks overwhelmingly hate gays.

I happen to be an extremely attractive woman who's NOT I might add, overweight. I  have been, but only because I have 4 kids. But I'm not now.

And you're an asshole. 

Posted by: pajama momma at November 05, 2008 05:49 PM (f3xJa)

59 shoot, spelled Boortz wrong.

Posted by: pajama momma at November 05, 2008 05:50 PM (f3xJa)

60 Whatever, wooga.  I'm not in the mood to rehash the same bullshit from the campaign.  Last night was devastating on all fronts, many of which we probably share.  As for this one area, I strongly disagree and now the fight goes back to the courts.  It's already started and I could care less what pro-Prop 8 folks think about this.  They think they can do as they please by tyranny of the majority with my rights so suck they can suck it if they don't like the results in court.

Posted by: John at November 05, 2008 05:56 PM (nAxsL)

61 John, you gotta put http:// in front of your name url thingy so you can make it work

Posted by: pajama momma at November 05, 2008 05:58 PM (f3xJa)

62 <i>There are Constitutional provisions specifically guaranteeing religious and gun rights.  There is no such provision guaranteeing gay marriage rights - only an inference from a presumption of a penumbra.  I'll take the pro-SSM movement more seriously when they recognize that:
right to privacy + right to contract = right to prostitution.
So stop cramming your uptight morality on me, and let me have my whores!</i>

This comes awfully close to "The state granting rights" rather than the accepted conservative belief that rights occur naturally.  It also seems to directly contradict the 9th amendment. 

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Posted by: chad at November 05, 2008 06:42 PM (lNQg8)

63 They think they can do as they please by tyranny of the majority with my rights so suck they can suck it if they don't like the results in court.

Tyranny of the judicial branch. Screw voting. And to hell with people I disagree with.

Nice John. Its just how the gay mafia rolls, right?







Posted by: 13times at November 05, 2008 08:37 PM (wg0Ks)

64 Obama is far to liberal to let this slide.  It'll be a matter of weeks before some proposal to the new illuminati Capitol is sent, asking for a unification of the federal government against discrimination and such things.

Posted by: RJ at November 06, 2008 12:54 AM (7nbTg)

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