1 What makes the article even better?

A blast from the AOSHQ past.

2 Oh, classic.

3

Every time Noonan's name comes up in the context of Obama, remember the phrase "A Separate Peace".

4 Oh, him. In short, the guy who makes Belmont Club's comment threads as tiresome as possible.

I have an alternate theory:

When John McCain went and signed the bailout plan, he more or less wrecked his candidacy beyond repair, because it's the sort of move that will alienate the grassroots base of the republican party, but not the Democrats or the "country club republicans." They've forgotten they need us little people to get elected.

IF they go ahead and blame everything on Palin, they don't have to face facts. They can go back to all the normal establishment bull puckey and have four more years of campaigns where they fly their aircraft into the mountainside and then switch on the afterburners. Twenty foot flames sticking out of a nozzle embedded in a sheer rock face.

I think us guys-on-the-bottom are gonna need a new party without all these Noonans and Parkers and Powells (and Stevens).

One name I've seen bandied about already is the Belle Moose Party.

5 seems that souls are for sale this election

6 Peggy gotta eat!

7 Yes, she welcomes our new insect overlords.

Specieist!

8 And here is the obligatory Obama Audio with outrageous statements about our flawed American system.

9

Noonan may be being courted for the job of press secretary for an Obama administration.

I have a hard time buying that. With all the people in the world to choose from, he'd pick her?

10 I thought P. Diddy was already tapped as Obambi's press secretary.

11 Stockholm Syndrome?

12 why on earth would obama pick her?  that makes no sense.  this is her speciality.  not believeable.

13 Supporting Obama and trashing Palin as an attempt to be thought of as part of the cool crowd is as pathetic as buying the same concert T-Shirt as all the cool guys in school in hopes you'll get invited to their parties.

14 Just out of curiosity, is Ace lying, passed out in a ditch somewhere with a bottle of Val-u-rite in one hand and the severed head of a hobo in the other?

15 While a damn interesting theory, I'd say the press secretary rumor is just a rumor. I'm not too happy with Noonan myself, which is a shame because I used to really like to read her work, but I think that would be a bridge too far, for both sides.

16 The snide comments made about Sarah Palin would never, ever be directed at someone from the country club set. Even when the Obama-ites were tearing Hillary apart, it wasn't like this.

In their minds, they have succeeded in turning her into a national joke and they've moved on already. She's been completely dismissed. Her words are now simply monitored for "gaffes," in a manner that is not applied to Joe Biden.

Win or lose, it's going to be a new world.

17 Peggy is for $$$ and love.

She is dead in the republican party.

18

Also, if you check comment #11: looks like we still have C-d-rf-rd to kick around...

19 I wish you guys were on board way back when to throw Noonan overboard when she was  illogically and frequently bashing President Bush and we might not be putting up with her tripe now.

20 I don't believe Noonan would have a job in the Obama White House, either. But I do buy the idea that she'd be the MSM's new pet "conservative" commentator. She has the resume, unfortunately. They'll give her a job interpreting for the cocktail circuit set exactly what's going on in the minds of unreconstructed Reganites like us.

21 It will be great to see Peggy on her hands and knees crawling back to Palin for the next 12 years.

22

Luntz predicted a Barack Obama victory and said that one of the many reasons the Democrats have been more effective with their message is because, while Republicans dominate talk radio, Democrats have begun to dominate the Internet.

"I'd rather have the Internet," he said.

23 (At PJM, not here. No offense zmdavid!)

24

the word is that Noonan may be being courted for the job of press secretary for an Obama administration.

There is no way this is true. She's a speechwriter and a writer of meandering columns. She couldn't be a press secretary for a Republican. She communicates through flowery prose and Big Themes, not rat-a-tat-tat facts and figures.

This is bad gossip.

25 The funniest part of this is, of course, that the "insiders", because they're inside the Beltway Bubble, have no contact and therefore no conception of the forces out there (not least, of course, Palinmania!) that may well drag McCain's ass to victory.

And then where will these would-be quislings be?  I hope we have the pleasure of finding out.

26

There's an old, old word for someone doing what Noonan is doing.

It is on the tip of my tongue, can't remember, something like "trumpet" or "doorknob" or ...

Ah yes, I remember now. The word for Noonan is "Whore".

 

27

Stockholm Syndrome?

Or a common corner walking Whore.

28 I think Spike Lee is setting himself up as WH Press Secretary

29

Just out of curiosity, is Ace lying, passed out in a ditch somewhere with a bottle of Val-u-rite in one hand and the severed head of a hobo in the other?

Usually. Why do you ask?

30

I buy the Noonan press secretary idea.  She long ago stopped being concerned with policy and became part of the David Gergen party.  Beholden to know ideology other than the belief that there is a smart, ruling class of people who need to be in charge of the rubes.

Peggy can eat the corn out of my rubian shit.

31

And it looks like our moral and intellectual superior doesn’t know the difference between naturalist “ape-studier” Jane Goodall and, presumably, anthropologist Mary Leakey.

And it couldn’t be the sign of a guilty mind and not ignorance, could it? I mean her wanting to write the correct analogy of, “I’ve often felt like Jane Goodall, summoned from the hinterlands to explain the behaviors of the apes,” but realized that would be too insulting and so decided to replace the correct “of the apes” with the faulty “of the indigenous peoples”?

No. She’s too much a straight-shooter to be so disingenuous, I’m sure.

32 GALLUP: 49-47 among likelies, a 3 point swing from YESTERDAY!  
Vote vote vote vote vote!!!

33 She's had cognitive changes since the menopause. Also she drinks and her brain was shrinking anyway.

I swear I'll be taking all the estrogen I can swill when my time comes.

34

I am a PUMA who discovered your page through other PUMAs.  We all have a common goal this election and that's to get McCain elected.  So, I just wanted to share with you what I am posting elsewhere:

Silent McCain Supporting Democrats are out there and I believe their numbers are going to be MASSIVE on Nov. 4!

www.tinyurl.com/5pm5t7

35 Socialists unite! The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. . . . The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. . . . It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. - Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, she told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine—that "we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs." -Sarah Palin Barack Obama leads John McCain by a 52% to 36% margin in Pew’s latest nationwide survey of 1,325 registered voters. This is the fourth consecutive survey that has found support for the Republican candidate edging down. In contrast, since early October weekly Pew surveys have shown about the same number of respondents saying they back Obama. When the sample is narrowed to those most likely to vote, Obama leads by 53% to 38%. -Pew Poll, October 28th

36 I may never stop throwing up.

37 "GALLUP: 49-47 among likelies, a 3 point swing from YESTERDAY!"

Holy crap...  Is this bad weekend numbers falling off, or The Tape blowing a hole beneath the waterline?

38

Noonan would not be Obama's press secretary. She likes pontificating down to us rubes from her lofty perch. She'd have to give that up as Zero's mouthpiece.

Not happening.

39 This borders on heresy but....it's time to put the Reagan Revolution behind us.

By that I mean, there is only one Reagan, there isn't going to be another one in my lifetime.  Sure, it would be nice to find another one and go back to the future, but I don't see it happening for a good long while.  It takes time for the pendulum to swing.  But yet it is Reagan's reflected glow that all these Me-toos like Noonan bask in.  They are earning their bread by the constant repetition of, "I was there!"

Yeah, baby but that's so 1983.

So, forget the Reagan Revolution.  That robs the Noonans and other nominal Republicans of the world of any claim they assert to speak in his name. 

The next time Noonan says or implies that she understands the true meaning and the true soul of conservatism better than us proles because "she was there" then the answer should be, "That brand is dead and so are you."

40

But I truly think the state-school-educated, moose-hunting, Wal-Mart-shopping, folksy woman from Alaska — a place to visit while taking a cruise, but live there? — is an affront to their narrow view of America.

Just like the WSJ editorial board's attitude during the amnesty debate last year: those people are just racist. They can't have a real reason for opposing illegal immigration.

41 Welcome, Puget Sound Island Girl...

"Silent McCain Supporting Democrats are out there"

I'm sure they are...  But do you know of anything in particular being done to turn them out a week from now?

42 #34 - I just read your Costco story! Love it! Hear the PUMAs roar!!!

43

She long ago stopped being concerned with policy and became part of the David Gergen party.  Beholden to know ideology other than the belief that there is a smart, ruling class of people who need to be in charge of the rubes.

I agree - Noonan has become a Personality conservative rather than a Principle conservative. Maybe she was one in the 80's, but even then she was worshipful of Reagan. Now for her it's all about the person and their political skills and standing rather than any particular political belief. That's why she's drifting towards supporting Obama. She still looking for her new Reagan and their policies aren't important.

44 Good riddance.

45 It's fascinating how class is playing out in this election.  When I read/hear these slams on Palin for how she speaks/dresses, etc., I am reminded of Jeff Foxworthy's comment about how do you really want a neurosurgeon who sounds Southern?  There's an assumption that East Coast TV Presenter diction equates to intelligence.  That's hardly true, I'm sure y'all can think of your own examples. *koff* Olby *koff*

There's a definite current that Our Betters are out there teaching The Rubes how things should be.  Personally, I resent being patted on the head and treated like an idiot.  I can only hope there's an enormous backlash to that, both in voting and by the promotion of bloggers, commentators, etc. who are not nearly so obnoxious about it.

46

Noonan has never been a real conservative, and no I am not talking about some kind of “religious right” hick that the beltway pukes keep harping on. I mean she has always struck me as a big government liberal.

 

As for Parker I have no idea what has happened to her. At this time a year ago she was calling Obama an empty suit and calling him the equivalent of the Magic Negro, the mystical black person who materializes as a deus ex machina to save the day. (See her January 09, 2008  column). The question is, what happened between then and now that makes her fall in love with Obama. She had positive things to say about Fred and negative things to say about the more liberal Rudy. So what has happened between then and now?

 

Sarah Palin has to be the answer. The question is what is there about Sarah Palin that pulls her chain so bad? Sarah Palin is NOT the religious caricature that the “elites” make her out to be. Perhaps that is a little of the “green eyed monster” here.

47 She's a Whore.

48 Democrats dominate the internet? On what planet?

49

She (Noonan) likes lofty themes and flowery prose that doesn't say much?

Axis Sally Tokyo Rose Peggy Noonan is a natural fit and soulmate for the Messiah.  

50 Arugula always goes better with bullshit.

51

LMAO.  What a joke.

Noonan will have to crawl over Linda Douglas' dead body to get that job.  I would love to be in the room for that. 

I think Noonan just travels in the same New York social circles as Katie Couric and other newsies.  They decided that Sarah Palin is simply gauche.  What we are only now beginning ti realize is that people like Noonan think most actual Republicans are gauche. 

It really will be fucking hilarious if McCain wins this election.  He has a looooooong memory and carries grudges.  I would not want to be Peggy Noonan or Chris Buckley or David Brooks or ANY of the Bush crowd if he wins. 

52 Arugula always goes better with bullshit.

...and Brie.  Don't forget the Brie.

53 Eh, used to love her stuff.

Now, Peg's just a tired, old dame, tired of being around TEH KRAZEE 24/7 in her Northeastern haunts. Just an ole swayback nag who wants to be put out to pasture.

Surrender means no more fights. No cocktail party unpleasantness. No demands to explain anything. Just the sweet peace of consensus. Let her chew her grass in peace.

Peg means nothing now.

54

Welcome to the posh country club for all the cool people, Peggy.

Now get me another Whiskey Sour, will ya honey?

55

Thank you for the link, Puget Sound Island Girl. Hey, I don't directly have a dog in this fight, but I gave a donation to HillBuzz for their Election Day party. BTW, your PUMA link lost Ms Noonan on her first mention of "Costco". Take care.

56 I wouldn't mind Noonan on the inside. Sure, she'd be charmed initially by the guy. But she'd soon realize he's surrounded by so many disingenuous douchebags that she'd eventually get her bearings and hopefully play a sobering influence to the Messiah.

57 Sarah Palin is NOT the religious caricature that the “elites” make her out to be. Perhaps that is a little of the “green eyed monster” here.

That's true. I was listening for a few seconds to Bill Handel a local talk radio asshole. He was ranting about Palin being a religious nut, which of course, he isn't. I might send him an email to remind him, a Jew, that it is the religious who support Israel and hid his father from the nazis - not the libtards.

58 But she'd soon realize he's surrounded by so many disingenuous douchebags that she'd eventually get her bearings and hopefully play a sobering influence to the Messiah.

Nope.  That's just not the way this town (DC) works.

She's be even more insufferable because she knows what BS looks like and she'd sell it anyway.

59 he isn't = she isn't

60 When you hear of a "defection" think book deal, speech tour, or of the eyeballing a new job.

61

There's an assumption that East Coast TV Presenter diction equates to intelligence. 

I think that those who had accents lost them long ago. That was part of the price of success. If Palin hadn't gotten the nod this year, you can bet some handlers would have had her losing some of the accent, traveling around the world and generally fitting in more with the Beltway crowd.

Sure, when campaigning among the common folk, she could sound authentic again. You know, like Hillary in a black church or Lamar Alexander in one of those clever red and black checked shirts.

/snark, snark, snarkity snark

62 "she'd eventually get her bearings and hopefully play a sobering influence to the Messiah"

HAHAHAHAHA.

No.  The only upside of this scenario would be her discovering how shitty he is but having to grin and put on a happy face because all of her bridges have been burned.

63 Peggy's just another upper class white chick that wants to taste a little dark meat.

64

It is all actually a really good thing.  We need to continuously seek to filter the riff-raff from our midst.  An individual with so little character and principle has no place in this Party.

65 Peggy's just another upper class white chick that wants to taste a little dark meat.

My eyes!  My eyes!  Arrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh!!!!

66

I will never understand the disloyalty I've witnessed from these so-called conservatives like Peggy Noonan, Colin Powell and the like. 

They are scum.

67

re JDW 56 - quit bogarting the 'shrooms, dude

68 Back in the bad old days, before Rush and before the interwebs, the TV networks' idea of 'balance' was to have some liberal pundit criticize the GOP, and then bring on a semi-conservative RINO type guy (i.e. Kevin Phillips) who would then also criticize the GOP.

As I said, this is what the network news shows passed off as 'balance.'

So I think Noonan is angling to be one of these 'house' conservatives in the Age of Obama.

69 Someone,

I suspect we are about to discover that the problem with the Republican party is and has been that the elite pollsters, speech writers and self-styled thinkers aren't so much Republican as mercenary.  Cloistered inside the beltway they slave feverishly to pad their bank accounts.  What is actually happening in the country or in the world...they could care less.  The reality based community in Washington, Republican and Democrat and media, needs to be pushed out to pasture and replaced with people that are interested in finding out what their fellow citizens are actually thinking and doing, rather than propping up their own prejudices.  More curiosity... less pomposity.

70

She thinks that she is the words she wrote.

Peggy?

You are NOT the girl of Pointe Du Hoc, and if you are?  you are on the wrong fucking side, you ignorant self righteous twat.

71 Anybody listening to Limbaugh? He has so woman talking about the donk plan to take our IRAs. You deposit 5% in an account managed by the SS and you get a $600 deduction. What? This is insane.

72

BTW, I think that the "Tokyo Peg" is going too far. I'm sure she'd much prefer Lord Haw-Haw Lady Ho-Ho for that British, aristocratic touch.

73 http://tinyurl.com/6lht7d better days.

74

I understand that in addition to the Noonan appointment, David Brooks has been fingered by Obama to head up the Department of Arrogance, Treachery and Pompasity.

 

75

Anybody listening to Limbaugh? He has so woman talking about the donk plan to take our IRAs. You deposit 5% in an account managed by the SS and you get a $600 deduction. What? This is insane.

Yep I'm listening.  And don't you love the way she makes it sound so GREAT??? 

You're right..this is insane.

76 It just so happens that we came up with a new logo for this type of Republican just this morning.

Link is here.

77

This borders on heresy but....it's time to put the Reagan Revolution behind us.

Damn right. Reagan wasn't Reagan because he was trying to be the next Barry Goldwater.

Reagan spent YEARS, decades speaking about conservative IDEAS. Hand-written speeches. By the time he ran in 1980, he knew what it meant to be a conservative, backwards and forwards. McCain is just now figuring it out.

The next Reagan will be a man or woman who can knows what the Right believes and why it believes it is better than the Left. And can explain it in comlete sentences. It won't happen by looking to the past.

78 Anybody listening to Limbaugh? He has so woman talking about the donk plan to take our IRAs. You deposit 5% in an account managed by the SS and you get a $600 deduction. What? This is insane.

http://tiny.cc/2WGR2

79 After the Obama interview, Peggy was heard to say "Oh, It's twuuu, it's twuuu!"

80

ACE!!!

Tell Pixie to have a wrap thing set up, so I don't click on shitty links that might be parasites?

JESUS CHRIST!!!

You know you have an attentative admin?

This tiny URL shit pisses me off!

Hey! how about I like a parasitic porn site through TinyURL?

JESUS ACE!!!

Pixy loves you, just have him set up the fucking borders so they are fixed, FUCK!

81

I'm sure they are...  But do you know of anything in particular being done to turn them out a week from now?

I really believe people are angry.  Regular people will be driven by the desire to NOT allow extreme liberal elitsts into the White House.  I know a woman who told me months ago that his "attitude" really turned her off.  She is a Democrat, married to an AA, who is voting for McCain.

What worries me is that I have heard a large number of Republicans are going to support Obama.  So, you guys get that fixed (get them educated on Obama) and leave the rest to the PUMAs.  Together we can do this.

 

82

To make sure you see it.

LONGBOWS!

83

Think about how we characterize Pelosi, Reid, and such as 60s radicals who received their socialization based on the values of that period in history. Now that they are of the average age of most Senate/House members throughout history, they are attempting to legislate the philosophies that were taught early. Obama was taught and associated with those same people as he grew up, and therefore falls into line with them – he did not question the rationality of their theories.

Now plug in the current average Senators/House Members/media "country club" Republicans of the same age into the formula. The GOP in the early/mid 70s was at its "squishy-ist" (for lack of a better term) in terms of policy expansion (EPA, etc), and need for bi-partisanship due to the weakness of the GOP as a political entity. That's what Noonan, Bush, etc believe - it's how they were socialized.

A lot of us, I'm suspecting were children/teens/20s in the 80s and early 90s. We saw the cold war end, business expansion, and conservative leadership at its pinnacle. We question the ideas of socialism for simple, rational reasons. Strength in the military and free-market economic support is what we look for from our government. Dismissing the "Reagan" mantra comes from those who are from a different generation, and who did not initially believe in its spirits. It was only the malaise of Carter and the financial success of the 80s that gave them a mask. Our frustration now with the “country club” side of the party is evident as seen by our dismissive nature towards McCain (until he selected one of us in Palin as his running mate), and our anger with the bailout, lack of support for further energy exploration, etc.

84

I will never understand the disloyalty I've witnessed from these so-called conservatives like Peggy Noonan, Colin Powell and the like. They are scum.

Woah, guys. First, Powell was never a so-called conservative. That was always wishful thinking.

And Noonan...she's allowed to think Obama shows great potential as a leader and that Palin appears out of her league. The fact is, if Obama was a conservative Republican with the same ideas and associations, we'd love him. And Palin had a weak coming out party when it came to interviews. She's not "scum." Neither is Chris Buckley. They just disagree with us.

We don't demand unthinking loyalty on this side.

85

You know, like Hillary in a black church or Lamar Alexander in one of those clever red and black checked shirts.

Hey in Lamar Alexander's defense, his checkered shirts were a reaction to his being out-good-ole-boy-ed by Blanton in 1974. And unlike Hillary in a black church, Alexander was an authentic Tennessean who grew up with modest means. His shirts became a shtick, but they also emphasized his actual background.

86 I've got a source who thinks the person who thinks Peggy Noonan will be a press secretary for Obama is a total fucking moron.

87 Mark Levin ripped the 401k theft lady three new assholes last night. He 'played dumb' and had her saying all sorts of insane things with him 'innocently' interjecting contradictory facts.

88 I second the motion of WickedPinto. Tinyurl is a poor solution.

89

Which link, Wickedpinto? I know that Puget Sound Island Girl's link is safe. (And I agree about problems with this site's comment section; especially not having comments sections for dead threads turned off after e.g. 24 hours.)

90

I've got a source who thinks the person who thinks Peggy Noonan will be a press secretary for Obama is a total fucking moron.

You have sources inside the Romney campaign, Frank?

91 75

Anybody listening to Limbaugh? He has so woman talking about the donk plan to take our IRAs. You deposit 5% in an account managed by the SS and you get a $600 deduction. What? This is insane.

Yep I'm listening.  And don't you love the way she makes it sound so GREAT??? 

You're right..this is insane.

Looks like I'm going to be taking heavy penalties to cash out my IRAs early next year... 

(I'm effectively ineligible for social security because I'm part of a state retirement plan, so I don't want those jokers having access to any more of my money than I can help.)

92

We don't demand unthinking loyalty on this side.

Posted by: CJ at October 28, 2008 01:39 PM (9KqcB)

You're making shit up. No one has asked or ever indicated that is a priority.  The complaint is that you can have legitmate disagreements regard to policy but when you try to sabotage your party during an election you are a traitor. No ifs ands or buts. 

93 So, you guys get that fixed (get them educated on Obama) and leave the rest to the PUMAs.  Together we can do this.

PSI Girl, I love you. 

Divorce your husband and come to me.

94
It's worth considering how the issue of class is going to play out. The Democratic Party, despite what looks like its upcoming win, clearly is fissioning into two wings: PUMA and Obamatron. Likewise, I could see the Republicans splitting along similar lines, into pro- and anti-Palin groups. In each case, the anti-woman group will be East/West coast establishmentarians, while the pro-woman wing will be lower-class types in flyover country. Just as Noonan and the other upper-crust types (and upper-crust wannabe's) are attracted to the establishment party's Chosen One, so us anti-establishmentarians will coalesce against him.

It's worth remembering that the original Whig Party was a coalition of the enemies of Andrew Jackson. I can easily see a new Whig Party rising, formed of a coalition of all of us who oppose Barack Obama, starting with Palinites and PUMAs. Me, I'd sign up in a heartbeat!

A Clinton-Palin ticket for the Whig Party in 2012? Dare we dream?

95 PugentSound: You PUMAs are fantastic!! I think the rumor that many Republicans will be voting for Obama is just that ... a rumor. I haven't met ONE who is voting for Obama. Anyone?

96 Noonan and Buckley are scum. You are entitled to your opinion and we are entitled to ours.

97 There's always

Html

98

We don't demand unthinking loyalty on this side.

You're right.  But I would hope we do demand a little bit of common sense.  Thinking someone is presidential because they speak well and look presidential is just idiotic. 

99

Andy?

Which fraudulent donation?

I was THIS CLOSE to tinyurling a parasite, which is an inside joke among my retards here.

I had the link, but I didn't use it.

 

As for the thing I have two links, lets see if ACE kills his own links.

First link.

 

100 First Link

101 Interesting, teh Kim Jong Ill wants to turn South Korea into debris.

102 polynikes;

You're making shit up. No one has asked or ever indicated that is a priority.  The complaint is that you can have legitmate disagreements regard to policy but when you try to sabotage your party during an election you are a traitor. No ifs ands or buts. 

Absolutely!!

103 Interesting, teh Kim Jong Ill wants to turn South Korea into debris.

Seems to be a trend.  Parker and Noonan are trying the same thing here - only with the party.

104 Second link, (Kicked out by the fucked up filter.)

105 We don't demand unthinking loyalty on this side.

Whoa, let's take that from another point of view.

Jonah Goldberg made this point. There of course is room for debate and differing points of view, but choosing to pick a fight and insisting Sarah Palin is a symptom of vulgarity a month before the election isn't exactly smart and Noonan and Parker are supposed to be the thinkers

And I take great offense to a salt of the earth leader who speaks like me being labeled vulgar.

106 andycanuck - closer than that.

107 AFAIK Tokyo Rose was not a traitor but more of a scape goat railroaded but the US Gov. in a farcical trial without any proof or understanding that (a) she was forced under military threat, and (b) was ridiculing the Japs with innuendo in all her broadcasts, and (c) was only the most memorable of several announcers reading material written by loyal Aussies similarly forced to work for the Imperial propaganda machine

108

Sorry about using the tiny url.

I have just come in here as a guest and I posted a tiny url.  I use it all of the time to shorten the url.  The problem here is that you don't know me and that's what I forgot to take into consideration.

I appologize for that.  It was a link to my blog.  You can click on my name and read Not going to do it this time.

109

jcp at October 28, 2008 02:00 PM (DHNp4

She was not forced by military threat and she did not covertly ridicule the Japs in her broadcaasts.  I agree though that after being recharged after the charges were initially dropped, the trial was tainted by some coersion from the prosecution.   

110 Puget Sound Island Girl, welcome. We love PUMAs here (cougars too, but that's another story...).

Don't let our eccentricities scare you off. Namely the profanities, hobo-hunting, accidental lesbian porn links, cheap vodka, haiku contests, Thai tranny hookers, certain humpbacked or he/she/it commenters/cobloggers, Fox Newsbabe stalking and bad movie/TV jokes.

Did I miss anything?

111

Puget Sound Island Girl...

I, for one, welcome our new PUMA overlords.

112 Peggy Noonan would make a horrible press secretary. She mumbles, stumbles, reflects, and conjures up tangential answers to direct questions.

Come to think of it, she might fit in well with Obama (D-ACORN).

113 Noonan's gone, and I expect Barnes and Kristol to follow soon.

114

Andy? Which fraudulent donation?

None, wicked. I made a donation to the PUMAs Election Day party.

I was THIS CLOSE to tinyurling a parasite, which is an inside joke among my retards here.

Sorry. I hadn't noticed that running gag here and mistakenly thought that you'd hit one of the links in this thread that was effed-up.

And using the tinyurl is fine, Puget Sound Island Girl. Ace wants commenters to use it as the comments sections here don't break properly for long URLs and it screws up the page settings. You've done the correct thing.

115 Yeah, nothing wrong with TinyURL.

116 Puget Sound Girl: There is nothing to apologize for. Trolls were screwing up the blog by posting long urls. So, the software was set to reject long urls. Some people just like to whine.

117 This whole Noonan/Parker thing is so fucking high school.  The clique of rich, cute, well-dressed girls is going to ignore or toy with anyone who wants to belong but isn't "good enough," but the ultimate insult is not wanting to be part of them--those girls have to be actively and viciously destroyed.

It's pathetic, really.

118 In the Obama administration, the Press Secretary will actually get to write the news. Outlets that don't publish what they put out will be punished. Speech skills won't matter much. Pretty much the way the Obama campaign writes the news now.

119 HAIL Ants!!!

120 My God, the woman has made waxing poetically about Reagan an art form.  she has the closet thing to a new Raegan in Sarah Palin and she jumps ship?

Sorry to say this but money and power are intoxicating, guess anyone can be bought and enticed now.  First Colin Powell and now, Peggy Noonan?   Geez, are we in a parallel universe or something?

121 #117, BO's wife is one of those who doesn't belong in the clicque.

122

Relating to Puget Sound Girl's PUMA Costco story - I was driving around yesterday and found myself behind a car with Massachusetts plates and two bumper stickers prominently placed: "Hillary for President" on the left and "McCain / Palin" on the right.  We were both approching a stoplight, so I pulled up next to her, honked my horn and gave her a thumbs-up, calling "go McCain!"  As soon as I pulled out in front where she could see my McCain sticker, I got a few toots on the horn and a very vigorous thumbs-up. 

Sure, anectodal evidence and all, but. . .dare a boy hope to dream the dream?

123 "noonan is a speechwriter. dems would be wise to take her into the fold...although, in some previous speeches by the messiah, i thought there was already a hint of noonan. God help mccain if she auditioned by helping him with his wednesday night infomercial.

Posted by: mark l"  http://tinyurl.com/5gbugf

124
"My God, the woman has made waxing poetically about Reagan an art form.  she has the closet thing to a new Raegan in Sarah Palin and she jumps ship?"

"The battle for the mind of Ronald Reagan was like the trench warfare of World War I: never have so many fought so hard for such barren terrain." -- Peggy Noonan.

Noonan was all for Reagan when Reagan was riding high in the 1980s. When Reagan's reputation was at its nadir in the 90s and he'd lost the ability to defend himself, she slammed him. Now that Reagan's gone and become an icon, she's praising him again. Noonan's the worst sort of political commentator: a weathervane opportunist. Only a fool would trust her, or give credence to anything she says.

125 There are many excellent writers. Therefore, speechwriters are a dime a dozen.

126 polynikes at October 28, 2008 02:16 PM (m2CN7)

OK, no need to quibble, but she could not leave the country and needed to eat. I used the vague "military threat" because I couldn't think of a  good shorthand for someone who is unable to work due to military restrictions, considered a security threat to the empire, and given the choice of starvation or going along. From what I recall, (and I refuse to research this) The whole ex-pat group was convinced they were advancing the cause of the allies with their broadcasts and were using innuendo, sarcasm, and mostly mocking intonation to make it clear to Westerners which side they were on. The copy was written by Australians and there is no question that they were loyal to the allies.

FWIW, I have a soft spot for the Japs and think that they have been grossly misrepresented since all the WWII propaganda seems to have stuck. I have no problem with the interment or the bombs, but it grates that the west is willing make excuses for the German people, or the Russians (or don't get me started on the Swiss and Swedes,) but are happy to beleive that the Japs were a bunch of bloodthirsty primatives that should never be trusted.
 

127

#39

that is a good idea. the more republicans compare/refer to Ronald Reagan, the more they appear to come up short, and the more the Peggy Noonans of the world will point that out. Instead of talking the Reagan talk, we need to walk the walk.

And all you people calling Peggy Noonan a whore are idiots. That's DailyKos shit.

128 It really will be fucking hilarious if McCain wins this election.  He has a looooooong memory and carries grudges.  I would not want to be Peggy Noonan or Chris Buckley or David Brooks or ANY of the Bush crowd if he wins.

Too fucking right! One of my reasons to vote for McCain has been a desire to make Olby and the gang at MSNBC all die of strokes on election night. But now I find myself wanting to make the Obama Girls sob and moan more than I do the loons on the left.

129

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama picked Noonan for a spot in his administration.  I think her son works on Obama's campaign.  I can't remember where I heard that, maybe someone else can confirm.

"Even when the Obama-ites were tearing Hillary apart, it wasn't like this."
Both Hillary and Sarah have been smeared as corrupt racists with under-whelming resumes (e.g., Hillary as "just a First Lady" and Sarah as "just the mayor of a small town.") and nefarious intentions (e.g, Hillary's nefarious agenda is apparently nothing short of world domination attained through alliances with the military/industrial complex, corporatist powerbrokers, the Bilderburgers, the Trilateral Commission and ZOG.  Sarah apparently has some kind of reactionary right wing agenda to outlaw teaching evolution in schools, burn all books but the Bible, force rape victims to pay for their own medical kits and carry the rapist's baby to term, and send homosexuals to "pray so I'm no longer gay" type re-education camps.) 

The one way Sarah has been treated better than Hillary is in the fact that people haven't attacked her looks.  It may seem like nothing to a man, but it's pretty demeaning for other women to see a serious candidate for POTUS who just happens to be a woman, constantly mocked as an old ugly hag with cankles and tree-trunk thighs.     

The one way Hillary has been treated better than Sarah is with respect to intellect.  Hillary (grudgingly) receives respect from the Obamatards for her policy wonky'ishness.  Sarah gets mocked and laughed at as a fool. 

I haven't even gotten to the violent anger that's been directed at both women.  I'm not sure where all this hostility toward unapolegetically outspoken women comes from but I find it pretty damn disturbing.  Hell, I've worried far more about Hillary and Sarah's personal safety during this campaign than ANY of the male candidates - including Obama. 

130

FWIW, I have a soft spot for the Japs and think that they have been grossly misrepresented since all the WWII propaganda seems to have stuck. I have no problem with the interment or the bombs, but it grates that the west is willing make excuses for the German people, or the Russians (or don't get me started on the Swiss and Swedes,) but are happy to beleive that the Japs were a bunch of bloodthirsty primatives that should never be trusted.

I agree that the west has downplayed the Germans and Russians as compared to the Japanese but you have to admit that long before there was propaganda there was Manchurian massacres, sneak attack at Pearl Harbor, the Baatan Death March, summary executions of civilians including children and the general propaganda fed to the Japanese civilan population that the West were below animals and evil so much so that civilians in Okinawa would rather commit suicide then be subject to the evil that these animals would inflict upon them.   

131 We don't demand unthinking loyalty, but the "big tent" approach doesn't really work too well. It would be better if liberal Republicans became Democrats and conservative Democrats became Republicans.

132

 

We don't demand unthinking loyalty on this side.

Posted by: CJ at October 28, 2008 01:39 PM (9KqcB)

 

You're making shit up. No one has asked or ever indicated that is a priority.  The complaint is that you can have legitmate disagreements regard to policy but when you try to sabotage your party during an election you are a traitor. No ifs ands or buts. 

Posted by: polynikes at October 28, 2008 01:45 PM (m2CN7)

 

We don’t have “traitors.” We don’t talk that way. We get you to agree and join the movement. If you disagree at any time, you are free to leave and come back.

 

The whole theory here is that she is ‘trying to sabotage’ the party to become Obama’s press secretary??? Ridiculous. Noonan didn’t become an idiot overnight. There is nothing wrong with thinking Obama is a strong candidate and Palin was weak. I don’t agree, but that is not an irrational stance.

133 One of my reasons to vote for McCain has been a desire to make Olby and the gang at MSNBC all die of strokes on election night

Could someone with the technology please take screen captures of the various election night teams at the beginning and end of the night? It may be fun to compare their expressions before/after.

134 Regarding the behavior of the Japanese, suggest you ask the Koreans and the Filipinos what they think.  Then google up the Rape of Nanking.

I'm not big on the Russians, Germans, Swiss or Swedes either (and don't get me started on those $#$@% Vichy French), but don't go all gooey over the Japanese. The rapes, mutilations, and executions were not propaganda, they were facts. 

135

We don't demand unthinking loyalty on this side.

You're right.  But I would hope we do demand a little bit of common sense.  Thinking someone is presidential because they speak well and look presidential is just idiotic.

Posted by: SueM at October 28, 2008 01:50 PM (famvl)

 

polynikes;

You're making shit up. No one has asked or ever indicated that is a priority.  The complaint is that you can have legitmate disagreements regard to policy but when you try to sabotage your party during an election you are a traitor. No ifs ands or buts. 

Absolutely!!

Posted by: SueM at October 28, 2008 01:52 PM (famvl)

 

SueM,

 

Which is it? We DON’T demand loyalty or we DO?

136

There of course is room for debate and differing points of view, but choosing to pick a fight and insisting Sarah Palin is a symptom of vulgarity a month before the election isn't exactly smart and Noonan and Parker are supposed to be the thinkers
Posted by: Topsecretk9 at October 28, 2008 01:58 PM (5j2VI)

 

That’s fine, but let’s drop all this “traitor” crap.

137 jcp, seriously, don't say shit like that in here.

138

The whole theory here is that she is ‘trying to sabotage’ the party to become Obama’s press secretary???

Once again you attribute things that were never said.  I said sabotage the party and I never referred to Noonan specifically.  I was referring to the entire group including Noonan.  When you continue to write articles that sabotage the party you are in fact sabotaging the party whether you agree with the term or not. 

Do you think Catholics should be loyal to catholicism or should they be able to stray from the teachings when it fits their fancy? How about a military analogy.  Do you think a sergeant who continually professes his disagreement of an assignment of a Lt to head up a life or death mission and bad mouths him to all who would listen including the enemy.  What do you think would happen?

There is a time and place for disagreement. Noonan and her fellow travelers have chosen wrong and deserve all the scorn heaped upon them.  And by you defending her, you also deserve scorn. Deal with it.   

139

When you continue to write articles that sabotage the party you are in fact sabotaging the party whether you agree with the term or not. 

 

Anything that goes against the party line is “sabotage”?? Everyone who didn’t like McCain’s nomination and said so was “sabotaging the party”??? That’s nuts.

 

There is a time and place for disagreement.

 

And that time and place is Anytime, Anywhere. We’re not freakin’ communists.

 

Noonan and her fellow travelers have chosen wrong and deserve all the scorn heaped upon them.  And by you defending her, you also deserve scorn. Deal with it.   

 

I can deal with it. Bring it on. I’m conservative and I knock on doors as a Republican, but my party is not a f-cking cult. You can come and go as you please. You can disagree today and agree tomorrow. Palin had a rough patch that did not inspire confidence. Deal with it. She has her bearings now, but a lot of people lost confidence in her. I don’t send them to Siberia, I try to convince them they are wrong.

 

We are people joined by ideas. WE ARE NOT A F-CKING CULT.

 

140

We are people joined by ideas. WE ARE NOT A F-CKING CULT

You are one dense mother fucker (it doesn't make a difference if you go ahead and spell it out) . Lucky most aren't as dense as you and can tell the difference between disagreement and assisting the other side. 

141

Anything that goes against the party line is “sabotage”?? Everyone who didn’t like McCain’s nomination and said so was “sabotaging the party”??? That’s nuts.

 

I'm as frustrated as anyone else with the "if you stray away from perfect conservative ideals on one issue than get lost RINO" attitude from alot of people in the Republican base. I'm a fiscal conservative, but for pragmatic/logical reasons (i.e., small gov/lower taxes/market based solutions are preferable to centralized planning/strong private property rights is more effective and efficient the vast majority of the time),  not because I think these policies are written in stone and come from God above.  I would never automatically rule out government intervention before analyzing the situation.  Moreover, I'm a social libertarian so I don't care about amendments to defend heterosexual marriage or support a right to life (I say let the states decide.)  Therefore, I'm a classic RINO in the eyes of much of the Republican base.  Persona non grata per Rush Limbaugh.

 

But having said that, there is no way in HELL I'd support Barack Obama for president.  The contrast between him and McCain is startling.  I'm sorry, but you cannot call yourself a conservative and vote for Obama.  There's no way.  Especially given the fact that Obama will have Dem Congress to push through all his legislation.  I'm disgusted by all the prominent Republicans that are either voting for Obama or essentially giving him 1/2 a vote by picking Barr or Baldwin.  McCain isn't perfect but Obama/Reid/Pelosi (along with Pravda..oh I mean the MSM) will keep the Republicans out of office for a long, long time.  All they'll need to do is grant immigration to those 12 - 30 million illegal aliens.  (Don't get me started with those phony Right to Lifers for Obama.  They are COMPLETE frauds and liars.)

 

Bottom line: Peggy isn't a "traitor" but she is a liar when she says she cares about Republican ideals (smaller government, lower taxes, market based solutions over centralized planning, 2nd amendment rights, family values, etc.)  McCain may not be perfect on all those things but Obama stands for NONE of those things.  

142

Take the job, Peggy!

You earned it!

It would be interesting to hear you point out the good effects of B.O.'s Freedom of Choice Act.

Then, we could read about how your career choice resulted in your being denied communion.

 

143 Re party loyalty. What's contemptible isn't "disloyalty" per se-- or, more neutrally, dissenting from (even actively opposing) a particular candidate or position taken up by your party, at a a particular moment in time. Depending on the circumstances, that can be a defensible, respectable, even very noble stance. After all, we admire PUMAs and e.g. someone like Lieberman, very much-- and not just because their actions & statements may be to our advantage. We see them as highly principled people, not because they happen to agree with us, but because they're acting out of loyalty to the deepest values, ideals & ideas of *their own* party (as they see it)-- and/or, in a larger sense, their country. And acting with a keen sense of the present historical situation-- i.e. the current circumstances, e.g. geopolitical & economical, present dangers/ needs/ risks/ etc., facing the country. (In other words-- they're not just making the perfect the enemy of the good. Like e.g. those voting for Barr over McCain in this election, because McCain doesn't meet their standards of "Republican.") And it's brave of them to do this, risking the opprobrium from those in their party who will call them "disloyal."

That's what Noonan et al, in self-flattering delusion, would like to make themselves out to be. But they're acting & speaking out of no discernible sense of principle, reflecting their party's ideas & ideals-- but rather snobbery, vanity, shallow aesthetics, opportunism, cattiness, PCness, and in fact (ironically) a kind of peer pressure. And they get to flatter themselves in (and be flattered by) the MSM-- bask in the MSM applause-- for being brave dissident Republicans. And they're going out of their way to insult (e.g. as "vulgar") things cherished by their own party (e.g. a self-made, unpretentious, courageous, paradigm of the American dream, like Palin). And further, they're aiding or endorsing a candidate/ policies that go directly against, and would indeed cause irreparable damage to, their party's deepest ideas & ideals. Their only rationalization, the weakest kind of wishful thinking: that Obama will turn out to be something that nothing in his past, his records, his actions, his accomplishments, his statements, etc. give any warrant that he will be.

For a (certain kind of) Democrat to endorse/ vote McCain over Obama, is like... a (certain kind of) Republican voting for, let's say, Lieberman over Pat Buchanan: a vote at once principled & pragmatic, in accordance with what they see as good for the country & their party. But for a Republican to vote Obama over McCain-- is like a Democrat voting for (say) Pat Robertson over Lieberman. (The analogies are awkward, but you get my point.)

144 And there are many different shades here. Consider Krauthammer. I personally love Palin, and disagreed with much of his take on her, but his critiques were reasoned & principled-- no blind party loyalist he-- and in the end, taking everything into consideration, he endorsed McCain, as the best choice for the good of the country. Then take a Brooks or a Frum (I'm admittedly basing this on my 2nd-hand sense of what they've written). As far as I'm concerned, they've been taken in by the spell of Obama, and are misguided in their analysis/ diagnosis of the GOP, and what its best ideas & ideals are or should be-- and are actually hurting it, e.g. in their characterization of Palin & what she represents for the future of the party. But what they defend & criticize-- even if I think it's wrong-- is reasoned. And though they've uncritically bought much of the false stereotyping of Palin-- they haven't gone so far as to insult & malign those GOP values, voices, ideas & ideals that resonate with her. They'll be part of the ongoing dialogue/struggle over the direction of the party, and many of us will oppose them-- but I still believe they're acting out of (what they see as) the good of the party/country. And in the end, they may-- privately-- not vote at all... even (ugh) vote for Obama. I would find this a stupid and hurtful thing to do-- just as I find it hard to forgive what they've written, for helping Obama get elected (if he does). But they haven't actually trashed their party, using their MSM megaphone to vilify it, & corroborate the worst aspersions cast on it by its enemies.

But then take Parker and Noonan. Nothing I see here is principled or reasoned. They are trashing Palin-- in terms indistinguishable from those used by her most contemptuous Democratic enemies. And in doing so, trashing not just the "base" of the party, but much of what is best in & most valued by it. It's one thing to argue that she is unprepared, without the requisite experience or knowledge to be VP (IMO absurd, considering the VP candidates from both parties we've seen in the past-- men, with much less to recommend them, and nothing like this contempt cast at them). But to suggest she is anything less than admirable as an individual (woman, Republican, American)-- to proclaim that she is *vulgar* and represents the *worst* aspects of our party/country (as Noonan has done) is something else again. To paint her in the very colors her enemies have used to calumniate her, and thereby presenting the GOP itself as something contemptible-- this is despicable. And worse, to do so deploying the worst kind of sexist assumptions & cliches. Compare: a PUMA can righteously attack Obama for all the things he is, and has done, and bodes for the country. But to be like Noonan & Parker, they would have to use the pages of the MSM to authoritatively declare that, say, Obama actually is a secret radical Muslim, out to destroy America, like most Democrats supporting him-- and use sleazy racist insinuations in doing so. And then be feted by the media elite in banquets and on TV, as a brave & honorable truth-teller. That, as someone (I think "someone," heh) said above-- is, indeed, to be a quisling.

145

You are one dense mother fucker (it doesn't make a difference if you go ahead and spell it out) . Lucky most aren't as dense as you and can tell the difference between disagreement and assisting the other side. 

Show me the difference (um, poopyhead?) Because you haven't yet.  Show me at that link where she is assisting the other side. I’ll wait.

 

146

sorry, but you cannot call yourself a conservative and vote for Obama. 

 

I agree. Or at least you can’t vote for him and say you are voting for conservative policy. I could never vote for a liberal president, because I vote for the ideas and polices, not the person. But if Republican wants to take a year off and vote person, I’m not going to point and scream TRAITOR! I certainly won’t try to paint it as “sabotaging the party.”

 

Bottom line: Peggy isn't a "traitor" but she is a liar when she says she cares about Republican ideals (smaller government, lower taxes, market based solutions over centralized planning, 2nd amendment rights, family values, etc.) 

 

Yeah, I don’t know how she’s going to square that one. Unless she just concludes the GOP is that weak this year that it will only hurt those ideals in the long run. She’s been getting kind of nutty for years, and some of the stuff she says about McCain’s being smitten with Palin are just crazy. But people have to calm down. No Republican/conservative has to support EVERY ticket EVERY election. That requirement is for the nutroots of the Left.  

147

For a (certain kind of) Democrat to endorse/ vote McCain over Obama, is like... a (certain kind of) Republican voting for, let's say, Lieberman over Pat Buchanan: a vote at once principled & pragmatic, in accordance with what they see as good for the country & their party. But for a Republican to vote Obama over McCain-- is like a Democrat voting for (say) Pat Robertson over Lieberman. (The analogies are awkward, but you get my point.)

 

I do, lael. But I don’t necessarily agree with it. The fact is, plenty of rational people can conclude that, whatever Obama’s obvious history with left wing radicals, he is above all an ambitious politician who will not govern radically. That is, they can convince themselves he is no “Democrat Pat Robertson.” The fact is, we’ve all labored to convince people Obama will be a radical, and we haven’t convinced a huge segment of ordinary Americans.

 

There are lots of reasons for this, beyond some people are just clueless: We’ve never really had a presidential candidate or the party speak openly about the Democrat’s Socialist policies. We’re trying to give a crash course. Same with left-wing extremists like Ayers…we let them fly under the radar for decades and now, crash course. Same with Democrat racists like Rev. Wright. All new concepts to most voters.

 

And I don’t know if you’re not giving PUMAs too much credit. I can’t think of many policy differences between Obama and Hillary. There’s a lot of revenge in the air.

148

Compare: a PUMA can righteously attack Obama for all the things he is, and has done, and bodes for the country. But to be like Noonan & Parker, they would have to use the pages of the MSM to authoritatively declare that, say, Obama actually is a secret radical Muslim, out to destroy America, like most Democrats supporting him-- and use sleazy racist insinuations in doing so.

 

lael, I guess it’s that while I don’t believe the worst about Palin’s credentials, I can understand a rational person believing it, even if wrongly. I don’t think it rises to the equivalence of ‘Obama is out to destroy America.’  Is the media loving it? Of course. They’ll also love reporting all the hate mail and, no doubt, death threats Parker and Noonan are receiving from finger-wagging conservatives. I might be disadvantaged because, unlike most here it seems, I’ve read Parker for years. She’s in the trenches of the culture wars that too many conservatives don’t bother with: Mommy wars, marriage, kids. I could be wrong.  but Republicans can support a Democrat and not be traitors. If they believe the Left is finally right about something, they are not sabotaging the party. They just disagree.

149

 The fact is, plenty of rational people can conclude that, whatever Obama’s obvious history with left wing radicals, he is above all an ambitious politician who will not govern radically.

I don’t think those people are rational decision-makers because there is absolutely no empirical evidence that Obama will govern as a centrist.  In fact, the only consistent empirical evidence that exists (e.g. Obama’s voting record) indicates he’ll govern as a boilerplate “Great Society” liberal.  Obama has taken centrist positions during this campaign but those positions where opportunistically chosen after he wrapped up the nomination (e.g., FISA, NAFTA, drilling, conditions based withdrawal from Iraq, etc.)

 

And I don’t know if you’re not giving PUMAs too much credit. I can’t think of many policy differences between Obama and Hillary. There’s a lot of revenge in the air.

 

I’m not really a PUMA but I think I understand them because I was pretty upset by what I saw happen during the Democratic primaries too.  I’m sure revenge drives them to a degree.  But I think a lot of it is driven by what they perceive as the Democratic Party sanctioning misogynism, race-baiting and fraud in the name of party victory.  Those are things that they simply cannot morally condone.  So many PUMAs are driven to vote against Obama for very principled reasons.  (They’re like some conservative Christians that can’t find it in their heart to vote for someone that lives a blatantly hedonistic life, even if that person took all the “right” stances on the issues.)  In addition, I know many PUMA think Obama is a narcissist with messianic tendencies.  They think he’s dangerously unqualified and lacks the humility to know it (i.e., he’s a national security risk.)

150

I wanted to add:  If McCain practiced misogyny, race-baiting and/or fraud than I wouldn’t be particularly impressed with the PUMAs voting for McCain.  They would be sort of like the Bob Barr voters that refuse to vote for McCain because he’s not “pure” enough.  Such voters are indirectly helping someone even less pure get elected.  That’s totally irrational. So if the main reason Noonan, Parker and their ilk refuse to vote for McCain is because Palin lacks experience, color me unimpressed.  They are indirectly helping a man with arguably less experience than Palin (certainly less executive experience) take over as the leader of the free world on day one.

Moreover, I think the claims that Obama has a superior intellect and superior disposition are unfounded.  Clearly, Obama is academically gifted - but that’s all we really know.  He hasn’t shown any creative thinking when it comes to policy, any deep understanding of major domestic or foreign policy issues (he spouts classic liberal class warfare rhetoric when it comes to domestic policy and kumbayah “let’s all get along” rhetoric with respect to foreign policy), or any great executive ability or decision-making. Moreover, plenty of Ivy League geniuses with more relevant experience than Obama have made colossal mistakes as public servants (e.g., Barney Frank, Dean Rusk, Robert McNamara, Bill Clinton, etc.)  Regarding his temperament: At least two times, Obama showed he has thin-skin.  First, during the primaries when some reporters actually asked him a few questions about Rezko. Obama got pissy, cut them off and whined that “I’ve already answered 8 questions” (or something to that effect.)  The second time was more recent when he whined that FOX News was keeping his poll numbers down.  The most I can say about his temperament is that he has a self-possessed, self-contained manner.  If he’s upset, annoyed, peevish, it doesn’t show on his face, in his voice or in his mannerisms.  (McCain is the total opposite in that he’s almost too expressive.)  Obama simply fakes a lot of stuff (e.g., confidence, coolness, knowledge of economics, etc.) much better than McCain does.  I guess there’s something to be said for that (e.g., Obama might be able to calm the American people in a crisis - assuming people find him credible – which I don’t).   But it’s still a pretty weak argument for voting for him (especially if he espouses everything you claim to be against)

Oh, one last thing I want to refute: The idea that Obama will “bring people together.”  As far as I can tell, the only people he’s brought together are African Americans to the Democratic wine track coalition (e.g., latte liberals and college students.)  For example, he was never able to seal the deal with most Hillary voters by himself.  It wasn’t until Bill and Hillary gave their speeches at the Democratic convention that these people jumped aboard the Obama bandwagon.  (I’ve always thought it was absurd that commentators felt it was the duty of the Clintons to get her voters to vote for Obama.  Bullshit.  Isn’t he the great ‘uniter’?)  As far as other classes of voters picking Obama: I believe he needs to thank George W. Bush (and secondarily, some of the big spenders in the Republican Congress) for most of these voters.  I also believe he should thank Bill Clinton for not screwing up the economy in the 1990s because that rehabbed the Democratic Party economic record in a major way after the disastrous Carter and LBJ years. Whenever I read Obama is trusted more on the economy than McCain I think of Clinton.  There are a lot of low information, naive voters out there that think Obama will govern like Clinton instead of Carter. What they don’t remember is that Clinton only started governing down the center after the Republicans took over the House.

151 CJ, I take your points, agree with much-- but don't have time to reply properly, might later. Also, want to second most of what Tversky's said.

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