1 And the top ad isn't even "perfect." It has the issues outlined, but we have plenty of newspaper headlines and very short snippets that confirm or reinforce the point.

(Franklin Raines going on about "Freddie is so secure, it shouldn't be required to hold a 4% reserve, maybe 2%" is the quote that boggles me.) But there's a long list of irritating ones. Mix and match.

2 Yup.  It's not even a great ad. 

But it makes its points.  And it tests the best of any ad.

A better ad would do even better.

3 dude u just stole from Allah, bad mojo and fatwas are coming ur way... although this issue does need to be pounded down the throats of the american people...perhaps i would donate more to mccains campaign if i could donate to specific issues and ads  i wish he would do more of instead of just donating to john mccain overall

4

OK ace, you want to wallow in your suffering, fine.

I just read the debate transcript, and McCain did a super job presenting a staunch conservative vision of government spending and the pro-life position.

He slammed Obama for ACORN and Ayers, had a couple shout-outs to Hillary supporters, and had a great answer on energy.  He brought a damn fine performance tonight, but all you can do is obsess over a stupid allahpundit/Politico thing that is designed to make conservatives crap all over John McCain.

At this point, I think you and allahpundit are basically creating a reason to oppose McCain out of thin air.  It makes you look delusional and extremely immature. 

5

The public is enraged by this.

Whoever is blamed for this will lose the election.

And McCain won't fight back.

We're fucked, aren't we?

6 Ace.

Look for an email from me. I promise it won't waste your time.

7 Ace.

Look for an email from me. I promise it won't waste your time.

Posted by: topsecretk9 at October 16, 2008 02:19 AM (1cqur)

Girls are always leading guys on that way, topsecretk9.

Also, Ace, it's a copyright violation, not plagiarism.

Finally, as I said here:

"I can't believe you guys are just dismissing the economy as an election-turning issue."

Ace you are stuck on stupid tonight, so let me educate you.

No one here is dismissing the economy as an issue.* The problem is that the GOP nominated a candidate with strong foreign policy credentials, command history, and legislative experience as opposed to a candidate who's well-versed on the economy, like Romney or even Giuliani.

McCain really isn't great on this issue. He's not being willfully obtuse. It's not his forte.

He's smart enough on it to get good advisors, better advisors than Barack Obama would have on this issue. But he's not well versed enough to defeat a better debater on the issue because, frankly, he's a bit squishy on this issue.

However, his past votes in the Senate and attempts to reform Freddie and Fannie suggest he and his senatorial staff are better on the issue. Obama's a Marxist.

McCain is going to attack Obama with what he's* strongest at even if you or I would attack him (metaphorically) using other tools.

The question is: center-right Republican administration or Marxist-Democrat administration, including on the economy? Which do you prefer?

Then get with the fucking program.


*We're acknowledging there's more than one issue, with the economy a huge one.

8 I thought McCain did very well on all of the secondary issues of this campaign.

If you're still mystified as to why McCain is losing despite winnng, superficially, three debates, I'm telling you the reason:  Because Obama is winning on by far the primary issue and McCain won't fight back on it.

If you have some other explanation, let me know.

What part of "tested the best of any negative ad this entire campaign' do you not understand?

9

yeah, and it was frank luntz's group. So, good. It is about time Republican 527 groups crawled out from underneath a rock and chipped in to fight the fight.

This is my point. You guys have all asked and lobbyed for mac to attack Obama from 10 different angles at once. Let McCain do him. He won when all of you thought he would lose the primarys.

Next week McCain will be within the margin of error. the fact that mac is within 2-5 depending on the poll says he is going to win. Obama will not get the turnout they think. They need an enormous turnout of unheard of proportions among youngsters and Blacks. He will get a good one. Not enough to offset the loss of dems and indys to McCain.

10 funky chicken,

Do you not get that the vast majority of people watching these debates aren't hyper-partisan Republicans?  You really need to step back and consider how these things look from an average voters perspective.

When McCain went after Ayers and ACORN, we all cheered but I bet a lot of people went, 'who?', 'what?'.

This they get. They get it effects them and they damn well want someone to pay for it.  McCain is the good guy here. He actually did the thing everyone claims they wished someone had done and he won't talk about it. Not only that, he lets the guy who did all the wrong things blame him for the mess! It's freaking bizzaro world.

That doesn't bother you?

11 >>>You guys have all asked and lobbyed for mac to attack Obama from 10 different angles at once.

Um, actually, me personally?  I've been on this hobby horse and only this hobby horse for three or four weeks. 

i don't write mccain about ayers or wright or whatever.

I only write about this issue.  this and only this.

12 Damn, this site has now lost the only issue for which I came here...Ace's ability to make it look like he wasn't just stealing all this shit from other sites.
Blogging is now over. Ace is just a thieving Hobo now.

13 another thing, sure mccain is known for his temper and wants to keep it under control but when he says the american  people are pissed cant he get that sympathetic look out  of his eyes and get the  fire  in his eyes like he is pissed too,

 i mean he is sitting across the table from one of the people who caused this thing and he doesnt look the least bit pissed but says the american people are angry? 

heres a hint to mccain if ur representing us pissed off americans then perhaps u should have some fire under ur ass. i dont want someone to say they feel my pain or my anger then move on, i really want u to feel my fucking anger  at the dems and express it

14 >>>amn, this site has now lost the only issue for which I came here...Ace's ability to make it look like he wasn't just stealing all this shit from other sites.
Blogging is now over. Ace is just a thieving Hobo now.

come on, who was I fooling anyway?

15 "When McCain went after Ayers and ACORN, we all cheered but I bet a lot of people went, 'who?', 'what?'."

That. Was! The. Point.

The media will be forced to cover it somewhat and people will now tune in a bit more when they see the ads or media coverage.

16 Uhm....Why don't we just get a bunch of 527s to run this thing 24/7?  Problem solved.

17 It's okay to steal from Allahpundit. He's gone to the dark side.

18 I'm sorry -- can you guys offer a compelling reason not to push THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE, upon which  McCain was prescient and Obama cowardly and partisan, in a debate?

You're talking about how well he did on secondary issues.  Well, BULLY for him.

Can you offer a good reason why he should not have hit obama on this?

Anyone?

19 Yeah, this is it. Scott Rasmussen has pointed out a couple of times (maybe more that i missed) that this is what's driving the polls. McCain needs to concentrate on this and drop the "wall street greed" line, it just comes off as pandering and there's no need for it when he's got the facts about this on his side.

20 By the way, for those of you who have said I have given up let me say for the record I gave money to both of these organizations today.

21

Ace, you could do something positive instead of coming off like a toddler throwing a tantrum.  You could put RightChange's ads in a main post.  Link the videos, link the donation button, say you do wish the McCain campaign had ads this good, but hey, at least we can send donations to support exactly what we want to see....

instead you choose to post the same pouty nonsense for the 3rd time today

please trust me....you are making a fool of yourself, and stabbing the McCain campaign in the back after they have been kind to you

 

22 he can keep the wall street greed.  The pubic wants as many heads as possible, and it sounds like it makes him "Maverick."

But he has to hit THIS much harder, every day.

23 The media will be forced to cover it somewhat and people will now tune in a bit more when they see the ads or media coverage.

Right because all a Republican has to do is mention something harmful about a Democrat and the MSM immediately moves that issue to the top of their pile.

If the media were doing it's job this would have all come out already. Besides, Ayers isn't going to win this election. People want to know where their quarterly 401(K) statements were in the shiter and what you are going to do about it. They will make a deal with the Devil if they think he will put things back in order. McCain needs people to understand Obama isn't going to fix this because he and his allies created it.

24 You really need to step back and consider how these things look from an average voters perspective.

She has. The average voter is not impressed when republicans constantly bash their own candidate repeatedly.

25 he should have hit him and hit him hard as to why he didnt, fuck if i know, either hes chicken shit, doesnt want to be called a racist meanie, lazy or doesnt want to  hear the soundbite of him saying that he doesnt know much about the economy played over and over all week,

im not mavericky enough to figure out why he wont land a punch thatll leave obama bruised

26 This ad is brilliant in getting people's attention, and could really help McCain in the swing states.  Do we know where and if these ads are still playing out there?

Need more air time stat!

27 It's not that I don't believe you, Ace.  I do believe you.  I'm just increasingly suspicious that the polls might be significantly wrong.  Maybe that's whistling past the graveyard, but Ann Coulter's new column covers some interesting poll history, and that zombietime article (which I don't want to link because, if it's true, would rather not draw too much attention towards until after the election) is pretty riveting stuff, too.

I'm just not going to throw in the towel.  That's all.  I'm voting, volunteering, and will probably spend the last week working my butt off in a battleground state

28 "Right because all a Republican has to do is mention something harmful about a Democrat and the MSM immediately moves that issue to the top of their pile."

Republican, no, Presidential candidate during a major and last debate who mentions something shocking all of a sudden their viewers, readers, and listeners sit up and take note of, yes, they'll have to cover it.

Barack Obama's answers about this fraud (that word was used, by McCain, I think), "terrorist" (word used more than once by whomever, maybe both) will again enhance curiosity.

29 So, what do you want, Ace? Do you just want to complain about it? Do you want to try alternative ways of getting the same message out? Do you want to vote Obama? What???

30 guys, instead of knocking me for not "supporting the team," why don't YOU blitz the RNC and McCain phone lines and emails demanding this issue gets put front and center?

If I put up the digits, would you do it?

31 dave,

You are a genius. You have discovered the issue the 'average voter' is impressed with...how often conservatives try and help their candidate.

It's not taxes, it's not the economy, it's not terrorism or war. No, you have finger on the pulse of the people and have decided that they are not impressed with intra-party debates!

So if we all just shut up and get in line....Victory will be our reward.

You sir, make Karl Rove look like a dunce.

32 guys, supporting the team is one thing, but the coach is calling the wrong plays.  Losing plays.

Support the team and you're guaranteed defeat. 

We need the coach to call different plays.

And you can doubt those polls all the way to defeat. 

33 Right because all a Republican has to do is mention something harmful about a Democrat and the MSM immediately ...

...accuses of you of shouting "Kill him!"

34 Just curious but for all the naysayers out there...which part of 60%+ approval of this ad by DEMOCRATS (while attacking Obama! For taking Fannie/Freddie money!) doesn't impress you?

Please explain it to me 'cause it looks damn impressive to me.

35 "I'm just increasingly suspicious that the polls might be significantly wrong."

It doesn't matter.  That possibility is STILL no excuse for passing up your best attack -- one which, by the way, helps everyone downticket too.

36 "Can you offer a good reason why he should not have hit obama on this?
Anyone?"

No, I can't, but it's not clear what you think we're supposed to do about it now.  I'm not giving up.

It's like Limbaugh says:  we're just going to have to drag McCain across the finish line ourselves.

37 Ace, it's not that we don't all wish that McCain would hammer Obama on this. It's that you shouldn't be surprised that the guy who won't touch Rev. Wright and condemned the swift boat vets won't. He's spent decades defining himself in a way that doesn't allow him to make this his central issue and you can't change that. What you can do is convince too many people on our side that we've lost and it's not worth fighting for a McCain win even though he's stubborn centrist RINO ass. Please don't.

38 Face it, Ace has proved whoever owns this issue owns the election. Pwns it. Period. The issue occupies the forefront of voters' minds now and for the next few months, at least. Can anyone name an issue, of current note, that can sway uncertain minds with such ease? Not even terrorism can do that, here and now in mid-October.

A humble 527 produced that ad, and it is so straightforward in style. It's not nearly as complex an issue as Ayers, CAC, Rezko, even Wright... although when the cockroach Wright's exposure to sunlight didn't exterminate Obastard's chances, I concluded that Americans would swallow literally anything to assuage liberal white guilt. That's when I knew we were truly hosed.

Ace will be able to look back on this episode and say "I told you so," while we all swill our Obama Victory Gin from the Ingsoc canteens Big Barack will install in every Administrative District of the USSA.

39 By the way, how many of you out there who are pissed that we are bashing McCain happen to love Palin?  Raise your hand.

Yeah, - guess what .  She took a fucking ice pick to her party. 

40 Well, Ace, people seldom do what we want them to do. Adapt or die.

41 "guys, supporting the team is one thing, but the coach is calling the wrong plays.  Losing plays."

Ace, is John McCain the guy who beat out a crowded field to win the GOP nomination or not?

Let's say your right and your coach isn't the best. You still do your part and play your position.

42 Apparently this is the time when Ace is tempted to hoist the black flag and... mutiny against the captain.

43 "Posted by: someone at October 16, 2008 02:42 AM (2z2WN)"

Okay, there's no excuse.  Now what?  What do you prescribe?  Continued kvetching?  I prefer dealing as best I can with what's on the table, because there's nothing else to do.

44

ace, just because Frank Luntz says this issue is the #1 issue right now, um, no I'm not going to call the RNC and sound like a nutter.

I did donate to RightChange because I love their FM/FM ads.  They target democrats in general, and hit Obama, Dodd, Fwank, Johnson by name.  They will help in downticket races, which are very important.

Please consider helping to get their ads funded enough for constant air play.

45 "I'm not giving up."

Neither is he -- this is about making McCain use his best weapon.

46 OFF TOPIC: I recommend that anyone in need of encouragement (and after McCain's performance in last night's debate, who couldn't use some good news?) read Ann Coulter's latest column. It made me feel somewhat better.

When the polls were wrong, which was often, they overestimated support for the Democrat, usually by about 6 to 10 points.

In 1976, Jimmy Carter narrowly beat Gerald Ford 50.1 percent to 48 percent. And yet, on Sept. 1, Carter led Ford by 15 points.

In 1980, Ronald Reagan beat Carter by nearly 10 points, 51 percent to 41 percent. In a Gallup Poll released days before the election on Oct. 27, it was Carter who led Reagan 45 percent to 42 percent.

In 1988, George H.W. Bush beat Michael Dukakis by a whopping 53.4 percent to 45.6 percent. A New York Times/CBS News Poll on Oct. 5 had Bush leading the Greek homunculus by a statistically insignificant 2 points -- 45 percent to 43 percent.

In 1996, Bill Clinton beat Bob Dole 49 percent to 40 percent. And yet on Oct. 22, 1996, The New York Times/CBS News Poll showed Clinton leading by a massive 22 points, 55 percent to 33 percent.

http://tinyurl.com/4k7qj9

47 Kensington:  30 guys, instead of knocking me for not "supporting the team," why don't YOU blitz the RNC and McCain phone lines and emails demanding this issue gets put front and center?

48 "Neither is he -- this is about making McCain use his best weapon."

Cindy McCain might get jealous, but if that's what it takes I say, "Go for it!"

McCain should use his friendship and mutual respect for Hillary Clinton, seduce her, and then get Bill on board his campaign in gratitude. Talk about an October surprise!

49 we can send donations to support exactly what we want to see....

Yes we can!:

http://www.neverfindout.org/

50 The thing is, as I've said, if McCain doesn't want his own fingerprints on it, RNC can (and should) just run it themselves!  They have TONS of money.

51 Here is the KO punch that McCain needs to focus on to win this election.  And who would've thought it would come from a plumber in my home state?  Joe the Plumber is the next American Hero!!!  This interview made me cheer:

http://tinyurl.com/4pwlnc

52 DrewM. at October 16, 2008 02:40 AM (hlYel)

And you , sir, are an asshole and a liar who has posted many times that you are not voting for McCain, so stfu and stand back you duplicitous piece of crap.

53 If I put up the digits, would you do it?

Yes.

54 Now that sounds like a good call to action: convince the RNC to run this ad. Unfortunately most of the readership here isn't reading through to comment 50 of a 1 am post. They're seeing one of the most prominent and kick-ass conserative bloggers declare defeat at the end of the last presidential debate.

55 "If I put up the digits, would you do it?"

Okay, put up the digits.  Now tell them what, exactly?  Tell them about the ad?  It's a 527's, so we can't push them to run it, right, because it isn't theirs to run.  Is that correct?  So are we to encourage them to copy it and make their own or just get out there and keep pointing the finger at Obama?

I'll do it, whatever will help, but I'm going to need a little more specific moron-level guidance on how to approach this.

On top of all that, though, is this:  who, outside of Vietcong torturers, has ever "made" John McCain do anything he doesn't want to do?  Is that even possible?

56

McCain just doesn't have it in him, everybody needs to understand that.

He is the wrong guy at the wrong time. We, or Rush, or anyone else cannot win this for him.

57 Drew: really asshole, people, the average voter and anyone who wants mccain to win, which doesn't include you, are sick of all the bashing and bickering. but since you won't vote for mccain I'm sure you want to see people to continue to promote negativity. Asshole.

58

CBS news just reported that Obama's trucking in lots of folks from CA to work here in NV for the next 3 weeks.  I guess my days of screwing around on the computer while the kiddies are in school and otherwise occupied are over for a while.

I'm going to help ?? whatever the local office assigns to me to try to offset whatever the traveling CA moonbats and their swarm for Obama attempts.

Again, please try to do something positive, like putting up a sticky post with the RightChange videos and a donation link.  And the AIP site.

Ourcountrydeservesbetter has redesigned their website...it's now super sharp.  you might consider featuring them.  Their "Obama's Wrong Values" ad rocks, IMHO.

 

59 just because Frank Luntz says this issue is the #1 issue right now, um, no I'm not going to call the RNC and sound like a nutter. It's not just Luntz, Rasmussen has said this is the issue too. And i'll call and e-mail. Here's the contact page on the McCain-Palin site, it's also got a phone number. Yes we can!: http://www.neverfindout.org/ That's excellent, they should be playing non-stop.

60 Posted by: dave at October 16, 2008 02:51 AM (MKM35)

Do all your 'arguments' boil down to telling people to shut up? It's all very impressive and I'm sure it wins over a lot of people to your side.

Seriously, with a supporter of possessed of such gifts of persuasion, it's hard to imagine how McCain finds himself behind in this race.

61 okay, to be constructive, tomorrow I will put up the donation buttons for Let Freedom Ring, American Issues Project, and Our Country Deserves Better.

I will refresh the post frequently.

I will also put up the emails and phone numbers (if I can get the latter) for the RNC and McCain, asking readers to:

1)  Demand the RNC run ads on this issue, even at the expense of McCain and even against his wishes.

2) Demand McCain raise this issue, or else support will dry up.

3) Notifying them you've donated to one of the 527s in lieu of them because they refuse to speak about the issue that is most important to you.

Okay?

Seems like it's fairly constructive.  And good advice on my being constructive.

Hopefully you guys will dive in and do this.  Perhaps we can change something.

62 He is the wrong guy at the wrong time. We, or Rush, or anyone else cannot win this for him.

What's your point? That we shouldn't try to get this ad shown that Ace has been trying so hard to have aired? Then fuck off. Go vote for obama. Clearly he is your guy.

63 Focus group? Damn, if you're determined to be miserable, nobody can stop you, but a focus group?

64 RightChange too.

65 "who, outside of Vietcong torturers, has ever "made" John McCain do anything he doesn't want to do?"

We did.  The bastard is at least now giving lip service to securing the borders.

66 McCain just doesn't have it in him, everybody needs to understand that.

Now what?

67 jim... do you actually doubt this or are you just being argumentative over every postulate to be disagreeable?

Do you have any contrary information, or what? You just doubt this based on what, exactly?

68 Do all your 'arguments' boil down to telling people to shut up?

That's right. Shut up. Sick of your whining. Anyone who suggests anything proactive and you attack them. Anyone who supports McCain you attack them. You are not voting for mccain. you want obama to win.

How many people have you won over by announcing you won't vote for McCain, asshole?

69

Then fuck off. Go vote for obama. Clearly he is your guy.

 

Don't be a dick. That's the reality.

70 And one more thing about this poll business.  I'm not talking about irrational refusal to acknowledge the possible (perhaps even likely -- who knows?) veracity of the polls.  I'm just talking about looking at some polling history (ala Coulter's column today) just to be open to the possibility that they are wrong, not because I want to encourage complacency.  Just because I want to discourage defeatism and panic.

And I understand that this may mean "doubt[ing] those polls all the way to defeat."  I'm not talking about doubting the polls as a substitute for working toward victory, however possible, just trying to find a sliver of sunshine along the way.

So post the digits, and let's not give into despair whilst dialing.

71

Thank you ace.  We are not powerless....it just will cost us some money if we want to have the airwaves swamped with this information.

McCain is more like the team GM.  We can all kinda be player-coaches.

And Obama must lose.  The only way Obama can lose is if McCain wins.

I'm not sure if tying up the phone lines at the RNC and McCain campaigns with complaints is a great idea....I know petitions are corny, but..?

or perhaps if people go to the McCain-Palin Victory Fund donation place, give 5 bucks and then take advantage of the handy comments box, if there is one?  I know RightChange had one, and I said that I loved their FM/FM ads.

72 dave,

Come on fess up, you are a parody of what a Kos Kid would sound like if he were a Republican, right?

I mean, it's great stuff. Really, it's spot on but you are getting close to overdoing it. Again, big fan of your work, I just don't want to see you ruin it by becoming to committed to the role.

73 "We, or Rush, or anyone else cannot win this for him."

Sure we can.  All enough of us have to do is vote for him.  That's all it would take.  Just one more vote than Obama gets.  And McCain doesn't even have to want it for it to happen.

74 bmac: go fuck yourself. If you want obama to win, try DU. That's closer to your reality.

75 please stop picking on drew.  need I remind you guys that 90% of you have sworn to never vote for McCain at one point.  Multiple times.

76

Still the kick-assest blogger out there ace. I really respect the way you listen to readers and follow through in the comments when there's an outcry against you. And I do wish like hell that we saw more of that from McCain - this issue being the perfect example.

But damn I hate to think of the damage you might do with "all is lost" posts during peak traffic with an already defeatest leaning readership about an already uninspiring, unpopular cantidate.

77 75 please stop picking on drew.  need I remind you guys that 90% of you have sworn to never vote for McCain at one point.  Multiple times.

Posted by: ace at October 16, 2008 03:06 AM (1WR4H)

I'll admit to it... and then I gave the bastard money.  And now I'm apparently a defeatist, even though I keep giving money to other people who might actually want him to win more than he does.

78 Drew: You fess up. You have posted more than once that you will not vote for McCain. Are you going to lie about it now? You won't vote for McCain and you try to discourage those who will from voting for him. And you have the nerve to call other people leftists? What the fuck do you think you are doing, you pos?

79 jim... do you actually doubt this or are you just being argumentative over every postulate to be disagreeable?

Oh.  My.  Fucking...Ace, this is completely wrongheaded!  Treacher has been amazing this whole cycle.  When so many others (it seems) has gone off the deep end, he has been fearlessly, tirelessly constructive.  I can't even square your question above with the circle that has been Jim Treacher's blogging lately.

And lots could learn from his example.

And I know that probably reads like a big blow-job for Treacher, but I don't care.  Hell, if a blowjob will keep him going the next three weeks, I'll close my eyes and think of Scarlett Johanssen.  With a cock, I guess.  Whatever, I'll make it work.

Point is, that question above is a question for a troll, not Jim Treacher.

80 please stop picking on drew. need I remind you guys that 90% of you have sworn to never vote for McCain at one point. Multiple times.

Why? Does the truth hurt? Has he changed his mind like everyone else has? Or is he still refusing to vote for McCain and trying to discourage others form voting for him? Try lecturing him.

81 come on, everyone chill with the fuck-yous and shit.

Need I remind you there is an important election at hand, featuring a Brown Person and a Vagina Person.

82 And Ace, that goes for you, too, cupcake.  If you need one, I'll do it for the team.  Just don't tell anyone.  And don't look at me.

83 No, Treacher has been doing a bang up job and keeping a sense of humor about it, too. We are lucky to have him.

84 I'm asking treacher if he doubts that ad is just as effective as Luntz says, or if he's just disagreeing for the sake of disagreement.

I don't hear many people arguing this is NOT a critical issue.   Or offering plausible reasons for McCain to duck it.

PS, I hear it's *racism.*  He's playing the race card on himself.

85 Why put the cart before the horse?

Is there a 527 that will run the ad?

Let's find out that, and then donate to them.  Let's work the "internets magic" like the fucking kossacks.

DOn't bring mohammed to the mountain, or the mountain to mohammed.  Put the fucking mountain on TV and let everyone see it.

86 No one is arguing that attacking Obama on the financial crisis (or anything for that matter) isn't the thing to do. Some if us are just saying "stop calling the results till the game's over" and trying to cheer you up so that you stop playing into the hands of the opposing team. That's all.

87 "Need I remind you there is an important election at hand, featuring a Brown Person and a Vagina Person"

Enough about Joe Biden!

88 ome on, everyone chill with the fuck-yous and shit. Need I remind you there is an important election at hand, featuring a Brown Person and a Vagina Person.

Tell it to Drew. He's not voting for McCain and encouraging others not to vote for him. And tell it to the people who just have to pop in and post for the millionith time that we are going to lose. Otherwise, this is just bullshit.

89 dave,

Dude, you must chill.

I live in a blue state that Obama is going to win by 20. I don't live within 500 miles of a battleground state. You have no idea about my donations and I'm not getting into that on a blog.

If my vote were to matter I would vote for McCain. The fact is, it doesn't.

I don't think I've ever put my voting plans in a front page post, nor do I think you can honestly say  anything but that the overwhelming majority of things I post are pro-McCain or at least anti-Obama. 

As for calling people like Obama a lefty, if you think voting for McCain i the sin qua non of being a conservative then I'd suggest you need to reconsider your position.

Again, yelling at people and calling them assholes is generally not an effective way to persuade people, but best of luck to you on that.

90

I'll admit I went to the RNC website today intending to give them a donation.  I was extremely underwhelmed with what I saw.  I like McCain's website a lot, but I've given them more than I can really afford anyway....so I went to AIP, but didn't like their ads as much as RightChange.

And I love ourcountrydeservesbetter.org's new website and their tour bus.

so they got my money.

John McCain isn't going to do everything I want him to do.  Hell, my husband doesn't do everything I want him to do all the time.  But he's a hell of a man, and since I want to stay married to him, I don't snipe at his failings. 

91 No one is arguing that attacking Obama on the financial crisis (or anything for that matter) isn't the thing to do. Some if us are just saying "stop calling the results till the game's over" and trying to cheer you up so that you stop playing into the hands of the opposing team. That's all.

Hallelujah!

92 BTW-

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why an ad that tests at over 60% with DEMOCRATS, while attacking Obama isn't something that McCain should be jumping on.

I've heard that people shouldn't question the Dear Leader but not make an argument about why this isn't something McCain should be all over.

93 Drew, you in Cali?  Cause NYC isn't far from PA.

94 "If my vote were to matter I would vote for McCain. The fact is, it doesn't."

For what it's worth, I wish you would reconsider.  I live in Brooklyn, so my votes disappearing into the wind, too, but if we both do it, then it's two instead of one.

And if someone else does it, then it's three...

And if enough do it, then it's...you get the picture.

I just think it's too weird a year to presume that any particular votes don't matter.  I think it's better to act as though each one does.

95 I also think you're shitting the bed a tad early, ace.  I thought McCain did very well, and made Obama look sleazy without coming off as some obsessed angry whacko (not that anyone here is, either, I think your frustration is understandable---misguided, but understandable)

He threaded the needle well, and I had to laugh at teleprompter Jesus halting and sputtering after the first attack.  Other folks saw that too.  And saying "he's eloquent (but vapid)" was the cruelest cut of all.

96 Posted by: someone at October 16, 2008 03:19 AM (2z2WN)

You know what, that's a fair point. My 3 am geography is off. I measured it to Ohio.

In fairness to me, even though I'm tired, I still know there are only 50 states. That's better than Obama does when he's beat.

97

My Friends, we shouldn't be pointing the finger at Democrats.  I say we should be reaching across the aisle to try and solve this crisis.  Because I have many friends on the other side of the aisle and in the media, and I want them to like me.  They are currently viewing me as some sort of evil, racist, unhinged  facist, or are at least doing all they can to spread this image of me, so I need to work especially hard to win them back.  Something which would be impossible to do if I started blaming the Democrats for the subprime morgage crisis.

98 "I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why an ad that tests at over 60% with DEMOCRATS, while attacking Obama isn't something that McCain should be jumping on."

Who is going to explain that?  He should.  Who is really suggesting he shouldn't.  I see some people, myself included, say that we can't just give up even if he point blank refuses.  That's all.

"I've heard that people shouldn't question the Dear Leader but not make an argument about why this isn't something McCain should be all over."

Really?  Can you cite any specific examples of this?  This doesn't sound like anything I've read in here tonight.

99 Dude, you must chill.

Dude, you must stfu.

Don’t give me this b.s. that your vote doesn’t matter so you don’t have to vote for him. That is a pussy argument by a pussy. You attack me and then you whine when you are attacked for being the hypocrite that you are. Too bad. Yes, you want to see mccain win and you are doing so by not voting for him, telling people you are not voting for him, and whining not stop about him and insulting people who won't join in your whinefest.

Asshole.

100

bmac: go fuck yourself.

Nice unity there Dave.

101 I'm asking treacher if he doubts that ad is just as effective as Luntz says, or if he's just disagreeing for the sake of disagreement.

Because what other possibility could there be?

102

You know, dammit, youse morons coulda come to visit the chicken family, had fun down on the Strip, and registered at my house just like all the liberals have apparently done with their friends.

But nooooooo, you all wanna wallow in your blue state misery.  And you've missed the NV deadline now.  harumph

And the state authorities are all over ACORN, so I don't think even they could help us now.  Damned missed opportunity.

/this is a joke.  I'm not encouraging voter fraud or anything that would entitle me to a lovely visit from the FBI or NV state law enforcement agents.  it's a joke!

103 Posted by: Kensington at October 16, 2008 03:19 AM (xFNQx)

Dude, you're supposed to yell and call me names, not make an appeal to the better angels of my nature.

We'll see if I have the guts to follow through. I've voted Republican every election, even when it didn't count. Habits and tribal loyalty die hard.

104 Do you have any contrary information, or what?

Yeah: The evidence of my own eyes and ears.

105 And I know that probably reads like a big blow-job for Treacher, but I don't care.  Hell, if a blowjob will keep him going the next three weeks, I'll close my eyes and think of Scarlett Johanssen.  With a cock, I guess.  Whatever, I'll make it work.

Given my prospects lately, you just signed yourself up for a world of trouble.

106 "Dude, you're supposed to yell and call me names, not make an appeal to the better angels of my nature."

I'm trying to do what Reagan would have done.  I don't want to yell at you; I'd rather yell at Democrats!

107 Anybody notice that by the end of the night, Obama was a bit shiny? 

I think we saw flop sweat break out.

Strategy-wise hitting him hard in the last debate was brilliant.  Obama doesn't get to come back in front of the whole nation (unless you count his upcoming infomercial) and rebut old stuff.  He wiffed a few, and Mac got in some digs.  C'mon, I actually said I wouldn't vote for McCain on this very blog, but that was when it was Hillary as Satan.  Now we have a real commie devil, and I'll be damned if I'm letting that shit come to pass without a good electoral fight.

McCain did what he was comfortable with, and that's all we can expect.  We'll have to carry the water ourselves if we want something done differently.  I say shop the vid to friendly 527s and see who bites.

108 Posted by: Kensington at October 16, 2008 03:22 AM (xFNQx)

Look at Dave's comment from the "Kill Him" thread (follow it up by reading the perfectly innocuous comment he was replying to).

Beyond that look at everyone of these threads. There's always comments about criticism not being welcome. People being told to shut up and get on board. Do you really not see comments going after anyone who speaks ill of McCain or offers alternatives to what he's doing?

109 Drew:  split the difference -- don't vote for McAmnesty, but call a PA Victory Office tomorrow and volunteer for GOTV.

110 I am worried about this 30-minute infomercial thingee that one's going to do in a couple of weeks.  Can't McCain do that, too, or does he just not have enough money?

111 er, Victory Center, whatever

112

105 And I know that probably reads like a big blow-job for Treacher, but I don't care.  Hell, if a blowjob will keep him going the next three weeks, I'll close my eyes and think of Scarlett Johanssen.  With a cock, I guess.  Whatever, I'll make it work.

Given my prospects lately, you just signed yourself up for a world of trouble.

Uhh, do you guys need a private thread cause I sensing a connection.

113 Posted by: someone at October 16, 2008 03:29 AM (2z2WN)

See that's the funny part, for a guy like Dave to say I'm trying to get people not to vote for McCain, I got the email from McCain's team looking for volunteers and put it up on the damn site.

I have no interest in being lecture to or cursed out by some fool for daring to disagree with him or McCain.

114 Uhh, do you guys need a private thread cause I sensing a connection.

A little too much information! Talk to the hand!

115

Ace,

If you put up the digits to the RNC, I probably won't call.  If you put up a link to Let Freedom Ring and the other 527s hammering this issue, I'd probably give a donation.

116 "look at everyone of these threads. There's always comments about criticism not being welcome. People being told to shut up and get on board. Do you really not see comments going after anyone who speaks ill of McCain or offers alternatives to what he's doing?"

I guess I just would not characterize the comments as "don't question Dear Leader."  There's a lot of gray area in between criticizing "questions of John McCain strategy" and criticizing assertions that "we've lost."

For me, it's always about the nature of the criticism and it's potential for productivity.  I hope you'd admit that there's a remarkable amount of non-productive criticism (Kathleen Parker (who?) calling for Palin to step down, Noonan intimating that she'll vote for that one, etc.) in the mix, too.

117 It really doesn't matter that finance is a weak issue for McCain. He is documentably on the right side of history regarding the current crisis. More importantly, Obama and his cronies are not just on the wrong side of the issue, they're among the actual perpetrators of breaking the system.

Obama litigated for ACORN's demands for yet more loans to people incapable of paying them. Who and what ACORN is and Obama's history with them needs to be shouted as loud and long as possible. The financial crisis looms over everyone and most of America who wants a villain identified could be shown a genuine set of villains. This is the make or break issue of the election, far more than Ayersor Wright. (Aside from Ayers being part of Obama's connections to ACORN.)

Let this go, lose the election, and ten years from now if you ask a typical school student who was at fault for the financial crisis, he'll point to Republicans and conservatives because the likes of Ayers will have been given more power than ever to command the curriculum.

Too much of the electorate doesn't connect to the left/right division. They go by the stuff they think mattersto their lives rather thana general ideology. If the average American can be made to realize Obama is part of the gang that put their 401K in the toilet, that is a killer issue beyond anything else in the list. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

118 Kensington,

I agree. I think there's a difference between not loving McCain (where I am) and coming out in support of Obama (like Christopher Buckley, Heather MacDonald and Kathleen Parker).  I could never support Obama, though I admit to threatening it when there was talk of him running with Lieberman. But now? No.

As for 'thou shall not criticize' comments look up in this thread. Ace was accused of 'throwing a tantrum' for this post. Come on, that's not even remotely what this or his other posts have been about. But every time someone says something that isn't happy/supportive they get a bunch of that shit. I'm sorry but I don't think we need to go that route.

119 Mac also touched on the connection between Annenberg, Obama, Ayers, and ACORN.  Adding the Frank and the mortgage crisis would have closed that loop quite nicely.  Since everyone is criticizing like a motherfucker tonight, I figure I'd join in.  Shit, Mac connected 4/5 of teh dots for America tonight.  I just hope the ratings were high. 

Sack up, faggots. "Spread the wealth" had to have been said 5 times by Mac.  It's closer than you think, and Mac didn't need to look like Grandpa SImpson out there.

120

Drew M.,

You've got to admit throwing in the towel on politics and putting up LOLCats, even temporarily, as a half-joke, is unproductive and defeatist.  I understand Ace is human and gets frustrated, but defeatism has this nasty habit of being contagious so we need to call him on it.

121 Ladies and gentleman...chillz......we're in this together, strap your big boy pants on, its the 9th round and we're still standing, when in reality we should have been knocked out in the 4th. Put the 527 info up, and others. We'll follow your lead Ace, just make sure you give us a reach around for the effort....

122

We'll follow your lead Ace, just make sure you give us a reach around for the effort....

And I know that probably reads like a big blow-job for Treacher, but I don't care.  Hell, if a blowjob will keep him going the next three weeks, I'll close my eyes and think of Scarlett Johanssen.  With a cock, I guess.  Whatever, I'll make it work.

Clearly the Cinemax is influencing your blog posts.

123 None of this matters, since Amazonian catfish are going to eat all the children.  I just saw it on the history channel.

124 You've got to admit throwing in the towel on politics and putting up LOLCats, even temporarily, as a half-joke, is unproductive and defeatist.  I understand Ace is human and gets frustrated, but defeatism has this nasty habit of being contagious so we need to call him on it.

toetotoetotoe,

Everyone will react differently but I don't think it's fair to say those posts invovled throwing in the towel. Two were debate posts and one was debunking an Obama smear.

You may not agree with Ace's analysis of the debate but he's doing it in real time and honestly. That's what blogging is.

What I don't get is people saying Ace doesn't want McCain to win. There's simply no basis for that. He's using the tools he has at hand to help and people may not always like how he uses them but denying he is tying to use them is just wrong as a factual matter.

125

Worst Case Scenerio:  Undecideds bounce around like pinballs, depending on whatever ad they last saw.

Best Case Scenerio:  The FM FM ads stick.

Either way, our side can outspend Obama in the final month, right?

126 I just cast my absentee ballot today. It's in the mail, on it's way to Washington State.
McCain/Palin was my pick for President of the United States.

127

Ummmm, how is this quote supportive of the add?

 

Frank Luntz focus-grouped it. It tested through the roof. One woman -- a McCain leaner -- shook her head during it. When the ad was over, she didn't just say "that was a good ad." She declared she'd become an Obama voter on the spot.

 

Are McCain and Obama switched?

128 gern, Ace is referring to the Obama ad that blamed McCain for the financial crisis by linking it to him through his advisors.  Ace is just proving that this is the issue people care about most - no matter what angle they're coming from. 

129 ...and whoever makes the case that the financial crisis is the OTHER guys' fault is gonna WIN. 

130

"I'm not George Bush" should be the next ad.

Followed by "Obama is Jeremiah Wright"

131 See that's the funny part, for a guy like Dave to say I'm trying to get people not to vote for McCain, I got the email from McCain's team looking for volunteers and put it up on the damn site.

I have no interest in being lecture to or cursed out by some fool for daring to disagree with him or McCain.
Posted by: DrewM. at October 16, 2008 03:33 AM (hlYel)

Then let me lecture you again:

You have announced several times that voting for McCain is beneath you.

We're trying to encourage people to vote for McCain and all you do is whine and bash him -- repeatedly.

So, yes, you're trying to get people not to vote for McCain, you pussy.

132 bmac: go fuck yourself.

Nice unity there Dave.

Posted by: bmac at October 16, 2008 03:23 AM (wX0lH)

And you're constant whining that We're going to lose! We're going to lose! is?

133

Someone get Dave a Thorazine cocktail with an Ativan chaser.  Send me the bill...

And call County.

134 Hey Dave let me put you some fucking knowledge (as the kids say),

If McCain loses it won't be because I'm insufficiently on board with the happy talk. It'll be because parties rarely get 3 straight terms in the best of times (hello, Al Gore!), because we are in a seriously rough economic patch, because Republicans haven't exactly done a bang up job while they have had all the big chairs and because McCain ain't exactly the greatest candidate evah.

You attempts to enforce some sort of orthodoxy of what is acceptable to say is one of things I loathe about the left. I have to say, I don't find it any more attractive coming from someone claiming to be on the right.

BTW- I don't know if you were around here this summer but a lot of McCain backers were telling us Mav didn't need the base all that much, that he was Mr. Super Independent/Democrat attractor. Now? The base better shut up and not just get in line but do it with enthusiasm and a smile.

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