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BRUNNER COMPELLED BY COURT TO ADMIT SHE'S BEEN CONCEALING TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND UNMATCHED REGISTRATIONS FROM LOCAL BOARDS OF ELECTIONS
UPDATE: NON-RESIDENT OBOTS FRAUDULENTLY VOTING IN OHIO

Updated: The tip was accurate, but the Cleveland Plain Dealer got the story out first. See update after background.

Okay, that's what we have at the moment.

Yesterday's majority decision, penned by former Ohio Solicitor Jeffrey Sutton, said, "Nothing about this case, or the relief (Ohio Republicans, who brought the suit) seek will allow them to prevent a single voter from casting a ballot in the November election ...

"At most, the identification of a mismatch allows a county board to investigate whether the mismatch has a legitimate explanation (say, a recent change of address)."

The practical effect, Sutton wrote, may be to require the voter in question to cast a provisional ballot, when elections officials would determine the validity of the registration and thus the vote.

In a statement late last night, Brunner, a Democrat, called it "essential" that voters whose registration information matches either the motor vehicle or Social Security records "are left inviolate to vote a regular ballot on or before Election Day."

If it matches neither, she wants county elections workers to handle "prompt communication to allow them to assist with resolving discrepancies, which, in many cases are not due to any fault of the voters."

"It is imperative that voters not be disenfranchised because of federal government red tape, misstated technical information or glitches in databases beyond the control of voters or the secretary of state."

But what's left unsaid is whether voters could be disenfranchised at all and how closely the questioned registrations should be examined for fraud. That's because even when county elections officials get access to the list of mismatched registrations, exactly what they are to do with it remains a mystery.

Brunner doesn't want to allow the local boards to investigate at all. So she presents them with a fait accompli by refusing to tell them which registrations warrant investigation.

The court ordered her to comply by Friday. She protests she can't and it will have to wait until Monday.

I don't blame her for playing for time.

I have a tip which I don't wish to out yet until I have more confidence in it. The tip concerns the number of likely fraudulent registrations she's refused to divulge to the local boards of elections, effectively forcing them to accept votes made by these unmatchable registrations due to her concealing their likely fraudulence.

If she doesn't tell them, they can't strike the registrations.

The number is large. Not million large. But still large.

And she's been sitting on them. She's been deliberately failing to inform the local boards of elections these registrations simply do not match any information from DMV records, Social Security records, property records, tax records.

They do not check out. There is no particular reason to believe they're real. Especially considering all the fake registrations already submitted by ACORN caught by the local boards for being transparently fake.

Whatever the number is -- even if it's smallish -- she has nothing but corrupt purposes for failing to comply with state law and inform local boards of the problems.

My tip, however, says it's not smallish at all.

UPDATE: 200 fucking thousand unmatchable registrations concealed.

More than 200,000 Ohioans who registered to vote this year for the first time or updated their voting information since Jan. 1 could be affected by the latest court ruling requiring the state to set up a new registration verification system by Friday, Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner said.

Brunner said she would comply with the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling late Tuesday but said she is deeply concerned that the decision is a veiled attempt at disenfranchising voters.

The court's 9-6 opinion, written by Judge Jeffrey Sutton, suggested that voters whose driver's license number or Social Security number does not exactly match those found on databases maintained by the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles or Social Security Administration could be required to use provisional ballots instead of conventional ones.

"The thing that concerns me is that Judge Sutton indicated that these mismatched names could be subjected to provisional voting and nowhere in [Help America Vote Act] is that the case. The Help America Vote Act is really not meant to be used to disenfranchise or to help determine voter eligibility," Brunner said in an interview today.

"Essentially that provision of HAVA is basically supposed to maintain voter registration databases," she said. "It is not for determining voter eligibility. The interpretation that seems to be coming from at least that particular judge takes HAVA and uses it as a means to exclude voters from a regular ballot. That is a concern."

The full 6th Circuit's opinion overturned the decision of a three-judge panel at the federal court last week and restored the ruling announced last week by U.S. District Court Judge George C. Smith.

Since Jan. 1, Ohio has 666,000 newly registered or updated voters -- all of whom fall under scrutiny by this latest court ruling. Brunner said an initial review found that at least 200,000 of them might have mismatched information. Once the office identifies all of the mismatched voters, Brunner will send the list to the county boards of election where the individuals have registered.

Margin of Bush's victory in Ohio in 2004? 118,457 votes.

200,000 would seem to be more than that.

Reality Check: Brunner is right that some -- perhaps most -- of these registrations will check out, after investigation. In some cases, it could be that the system hasn't yet reflected changes-of-address or so forth.

However, many will turn out to be fraudulent -- and she deliberately concealed the existence of these red flags to deny the local boards of election the opportunity to check for themselves.

How man are real, how many are fake? We don't know -- yet.

And if Jennifer Brunner had had her way, we'd have never even have had an opportunity to check at all.

She didn't want to check into them, and she actively prevented the local boards of election from checking too. Citing -- get this -- "voter disenfranchisement" as her rationale.

Despite the fact that the law compels her to inform the local boards of unmatchable registrants.

Let's say even 3/4s of these turn out legit -- she was hellbent to smuggle the the 50,000 fraudulent ones into the ballot boxes.

Bear in Mind... If you're struck from the rolls and show up to vote, that doesn't mean you lose your vote. You can vote by provisional ballot. The envelope remains sealed until your bona fides can be established. Then, once you've been found to be a legal voter, the envelope is opened and your ballot is counted.

Brunner was fighting to make sure these dodgy/suspect voters never had to prove they were real voters -- she wanted their votes dumped straight into the pile, where no one could later yank them out from. Remember, even if you're a proven fraudulent voter, your votes can't be pulled out of the mix -- because it's secret ballot. Who knows who you voted for? In Bizarro world, it's even possible you voted for McCain ten times.

Brunner was determined to get these suspect -- not necessarily fraudulent, but suspect and requiring investigation -- into that pile of voter by hook or by crook. She wasn't willing to check them out herself, and also conspired to prevent the local boards from knocking on doors and placing follow-up calls, too.

UPDATE: Young Obama cultists signing up to vote in whatever swing state The One needs them to -- even having no connection to the state whatsoever. Apart from an in-state friend willing to claim, Oh, sure, all 50 of you live in my hovel.

There's a goddamned website facilitating this fraud -- telling you who is willing to claim you live in their house, and which states you should be fraudulently signing up to vote in.

FBI? Hello? FBI?

Posted by: Ace at 06:04 PM



Comments

1 Convenient "office fire" in 5...4...3...2...1

Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 15, 2008 05:50 PM (Xl9pj)

2 If there were say 50,000 fraudulant registrations would this be a possible RICO offense?  What are the consequences for this woman who hide this fraud and the courts that tried to provide cover for the fraud?

Posted by: Thomas Jackson at October 15, 2008 05:52 PM (5ySCu)

3 They seriousy think, after 2000, that they have license to do anything to win.  All pretense of law following is out the window.  Death of Democracy follows.

Posted by: Judd at October 15, 2008 05:53 PM (BXHeE)

4 Did you see this link on the Dispatch page?

Posted by: XBradTC at October 15, 2008 05:55 PM (XR95h)

5 When the fuck did my beloved country become a fucking corrupt third world shithole?

Posted by: a4g at October 15, 2008 05:56 PM (QY4Hm)

6 I heard that they could get a fake signature for a cig, so 50K fake voters cost, what,about $10K? Take the $800K Obama gave these people and we could be talking 4 million fake voters. Just from that "donation" alone.
OK, the numbers change for the price of a can of Schaefers, but I think it all could cause a problem or two.

Posted by: East Bay Patriot at October 15, 2008 05:58 PM (h/5U0)

7 Obviously there are some Conservatives doing their job here.  But where are they in the media?  And to that point, where the hell is the media outrage?  Well that was a dumb question.  Let try it this way, why isn't at least Fox and more centrist organizations not screaming bloody murder.  You can see some of the journalists just as pissed off as they possibly can be and holding back strangling these ACORN people, but no going for the throat.  How do you think these big investigations start, by the people and the media ramping up pressure  This is unacceptable.

Posted by: David at October 15, 2008 05:58 PM (HAdov)

8 It almost sound unlawful.

Posted by: runninrebel at October 15, 2008 05:59 PM (0n9wc)

9 Where's the outrage?

Posted by: Iblis at October 15, 2008 06:02 PM (9221z)

10

Acorn in Ohio.

Hee.

http://tinyurl.com/4l9mr2

Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2008 06:04 PM (VBon8)

11

It almost sound unlawful.

The will of the people is the highest law.

Well, some people.

Racist!

Posted by: jdub at October 15, 2008 06:04 PM (hUStE)

12 Why isn't the Ohio Secretary of State under arrest?

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:07 PM (hawOV)

13 Whee!

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 15, 2008 06:07 PM (FO+YO)

14 Oh my fucking God.  Im speechless.

and really pissed.

Posted by: David at October 15, 2008 06:08 PM (HAdov)

15 No better use for the flaming skull!  Incredible!


Posted by: 8starsnorth at October 15, 2008 06:08 PM (yLy6/)

16 Whoa.

Posted by: Farmer Joe at October 15, 2008 06:11 PM (nYv/9)

17 "When the fuck did my beloved country become a fucking corrupt third world shithole?"

About the same time Canada became the bastion of conservativism in North America.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:12 PM (hawOV)

18 Fox was doing ACORN all week, and this is about to come up on Special Report w. Britt Hume.

Posted by: JimD at October 15, 2008 06:13 PM (j/wD+)

19 Well then.

Posted by: apotheosis at October 15, 2008 06:14 PM (xWk3U)

20 Isn't this disclosure..actionable?  As in at least investigating the non-transparency of Brunner's lock box of 200K mismatched registrations.

Posted by: sergei at October 15, 2008 06:14 PM (AGMH1)

21 Any odds on when the lamestream media run this story?

I've got my money on Nov. 5.

Posted by: NM Hick at October 15, 2008 06:14 PM (STXJ7)

22

Ahh, flaming skull goodness. Or badness, whatev...

Posted by: Lee at October 15, 2008 06:14 PM (TxTIh)

23

The use of the term cunt in this election cycle has been misplaced.  Better it be rerserved for those that truly deserve it.  Frog march the bitch to jail. 

Posted by: Fish at October 15, 2008 06:15 PM (6Rihj)

24 see Hillbuzz, they still pushing RICO charges on Obama and ACORN to come

Posted by: jp at October 15, 2008 06:15 PM (DFDtC)

25 FLAMING SKULL FANTASTIQUE!

Brunner The Macabre
Cauldron of Corruption

Posted by: maverick muse at October 15, 2008 06:15 PM (F1b/5)

26 Un-believable!  Great post, Ace, and time to tar and feather brunner.

Posted by: Amused Observer at October 15, 2008 06:16 PM (h0aKI)

27

Why on earth is this woman being trusted with these heretofore undisclosed registrations for a whole weekend???

This is where the names get taken down, the provisional ballots get used and look, there's a match to this here registration. 

Good Lord.

Posted by: Terri at October 15, 2008 06:16 PM (DpaEL)

28 This is just an attempt to hide the real numbers.
Probably 3/4's of these 200,000 are legit and can be resolved, but not by election day. So the courts will lean toward not disenfranchising people and do shit about the obvious 50,000 that are fraud or illegals.

Posted by: Rocks at October 15, 2008 06:16 PM (Q1lie)

29 Wish McCain had the balls to bring this up in the debate.  It'd be a great time to do it, with all the acorn stories floating around.

Posted by: Amused Observer at October 15, 2008 06:17 PM (h0aKI)

30 i am not an angry american.

Posted by: e.koenig at October 15, 2008 06:17 PM (2J+Vs)

31 After initial review she found AT LEAST 200,000 which means she's sandbagging and it's probably much higher.  If some folks don't get some serious jailtime out of this election, then our election process means about as much as Saddam's Iraqi elections.

Posted by: jd at October 15, 2008 06:17 PM (iXWYc)

32 Even if they have 200,000 fake registrations, they still need people to cast actual ballots. And supposing they have 5,000 people in on the scam, they would still have to vote 40 times each. Seems like it would be fairly hard to pull off without a lot of coordination.

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 06:17 PM (NaZcW)

33 How many campaigns could be involved in:

1. Voter Fraud
2. Campaign Finance Fraud
3. Credit Card Fraud
4. Real Estate Corruption
5. Previous membership in socialist party
4. Terrorist Connections
5. Raises money for African wannabe dictator
6. Racist Church 20 years
7. Thuggery tactics to suppress opposition
8. Most liberal Record in the Senate
9. Least experience candidate
10. consistently lies to voters
11. Will not produce any records of consequence

And still be ahead in the polls?

Seriously? How on earth is this happening?

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:17 PM (/PwQS)

34 "Seriously? How on earth is this happening?"

The American people. It's the only answer. A plurality of the American people are okay with Barack Obama.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:19 PM (hawOV)

35 This woman should be behind bars doing time right now.

Posted by: JOHN ADAMS at October 15, 2008 06:19 PM (Q8yq5)

36 I am SO in.

Posted by: the fix at October 15, 2008 06:19 PM (xWk3U)

37

>When the fuck did my beloved country become a fucking corrupt third world shithole?

There's always been some ballot box stuffing; it's just that since 2000, the Dems have decided to go all the way with industrial grade fraud. Winning is everything to these polesmokers. Fuck democracy.

Posted by: Jones/CO at October 15, 2008 06:19 PM (KOkrW)

38 there were 700k new registrations in NC, wonder how many of these are fake?

Posted by: jp at October 15, 2008 06:19 PM (DFDtC)

39 #7 David;

You haven't been watching Fox. It's been wall-to-wall all week during the day. But, mostly they're preaching to the choir.

Posted by: Jonn Lilyea at October 15, 2008 06:19 PM (dhtNf)

40 I'm a Buckeye...and I am pissed!!! I will be in Columbus tomorrow on business. Should I attempt a citizen's arrest?

Posted by: fred at October 15, 2008 06:19 PM (0XpI7)

41 Is the party of a majority of the mistakes a secret? Wouldn't be if they were Repubs. Ergo, they are democrats.

Posted by: CornFedBeauty at October 15, 2008 06:20 PM (8r/RM)

42 DIEBOLD!!!

Posted by: a shithead tachyonshuggy works with at October 15, 2008 06:20 PM (TXp3z)

43 Maetenloch,

More than anything else it clogs the system. I don't think there would be 200,000 fraudulant votes (even if it 4, it's 4 too many) but those kind of numbers overrun the system and make fraud very likely. How much voter fraud is unacceptable? 10,000? 20,000? 50,000?

Florida was decided by 500+ votes in 2000.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:20 PM (/PwQS)

44

#33

 

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID X 10,000

Posted by: JimD at October 15, 2008 06:21 PM (j/wD+)

45 Ball dippin' good, Ace.

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at October 15, 2008 06:21 PM (kZT4X)

46

So why hasn't she been arrested yet? Seems like conspiracy to commit fraud to me.

Posted by: Iblis at October 15, 2008 06:21 PM (9221z)

47 Is this why the polls are skewed towards a higher Dem turnout, because all these illegal registrations imply that more folks are registering to vote as Democrats? I know this is off the topic, but I was wondering why the pollsters were so confident that the percentage of Democrats that would turn out to vote is going to be 6-7% higher than Republicans this year.

Posted by: IC at October 15, 2008 06:22 PM (jZNCU)

48

It would be extremely easy to vote fraudulently by absentee ballot. Estimates are 1/3 of the electorate in Ohio will vote by absentee. That means millions of votes by absentee.

You don't have to do this in person at all.

Posted by: Tabris at October 15, 2008 06:22 PM (rrZYM)

49 They weren't going to take any chances on Ohio, were they?

How bad do you think it is in PA , MN and Wisconsin where there is a documented history of this crap.
OK W, this is hero time- lets get the Feds on this crime.
OK John, you've got the goods on Barrys friends- nail him.

Posted by: jjshaka at October 15, 2008 06:23 PM (o8Mg9)

50 Culture of Corruption anyone?

Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 15, 2008 06:23 PM (Xl9pj)

51

#47 - CORRECT!

Posted by: JimD at October 15, 2008 06:24 PM (j/wD+)

52

Brunner said she would comply with the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling late Tuesday but said she is deeply concerned that the decision is a veiled attempt at disenfranchising voters.

As opposed to her completely unveiled attempt to disenfranchise legitimate voters?

Posted by: thirteen28 at October 15, 2008 06:24 PM (s8N54)

53 Yep, the OH Dems are trying to cook the books for an Obama "landslide" win, the same way the FL Dems tried to do for Gore in FL during the 2000 election. I'm not surprised, if the OH Dems succeeded with this fraud they would benefit from the Obamessiah's largesse in the next 4 years. Definitely would be to the benefit of Dem pols in the major cities of Ohio. (No one cares about the farmland portions of the state these days.) Whether or not this benefit would workout to the actual citizens of those cities remains to be seen. (Dayton = economic doughnut, Cincinnati = bigger doughnut in making, Cleveland = economic blight, Colombus = tax $ bloated, Akron = nearly abandoned, Youngstown = abandoned)




Posted by: exdem13 at October 15, 2008 06:25 PM (nQ6xk)

54 "Essentially that provision of HAVA is basically supposed to maintain voter registration databases," she said. "It is not for determining voter eligibility."


Then what the fuck is the database for you foul bitch?  We spend all this money on a really nifty voter registration database (its a government job, so they didn't do it on the cheap), but we can't use it for any thing?  WTF?

Posted by: MMW at October 15, 2008 06:26 PM (5TttE)

55 Obama probably knows that about polls too, which is why he's running ads everywhere

Posted by: jp at October 15, 2008 06:26 PM (DFDtC)

56 Then again, this voter fraud thing could just be a distraction from real issues.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:26 PM (/PwQS)

57

Maetenloch,

More than anything else it clogs the system. I don't think there would be 200,000 fraudulant votes (even if it 4, it's 4 too many) but those kind of numbers overrun the system and make fraud very likely. How much voter fraud is unacceptable? 10,000? 20,000? 50,000?

Florida was decided by 500+ votes in 2000.

Don't disagree with you, but I still think there's an upper bound on how many fake votes you can push through at the physical ballot level without just wholesale Chicago-style fraud. And this only matters when the margin is very thin anyway.

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 06:27 PM (NaZcW)

58 All right, I'll comply, but I'm deeply concerned that this might be an effort to disenfranchise tens of thousands of fraudulent voters.

Posted by: Jennifer Brunner at October 15, 2008 06:27 PM (xFNQx)

59 How many absentee votes have already been cast?

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:28 PM (/PwQS)

60

>Seriously? How on earth is this happening?

because the other side is tired of losing, and this time they're going to do whatever it takes, fair or unfair, to 'win'

They can't risk leaving it in the hands of the voters-

all it takes is a Sgt Schultz-like media and a slick candidate

I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often

Posted by: Jones/CO at October 15, 2008 06:29 PM (KOkrW)

61

New McCain message for the evening.

"Thank you for the question, Bob, but before I go any further I must address this issue.  There is a report out of Ohio today that over 200,000 unverifiable voter registration forms have been submitted to the state.  Many of these registrations are coming from the same source, ACORN.  This activity is being reported in states all across America.  This is nothing short of an attack on our most precious right as citizens, the right for all citizens to have their vote count.

Senator Obama, you have had a long history working with ACORN from your days organizing with them in Chicago to working with them on the subprime mortgage process with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  You paid ACORN over $800,000 earlier this year for election support.

I am calling on you tonight to tell ACORN to stop this type of voter manipulation.  I, in turn, am calling on the DOJ to look into this matter to see if federal voting laws have been viotlated.  All Americans deserve to vote in a free and fair election.

Now, what the fuck was your question, Bob?"

Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2008 06:29 PM (VBon8)

62 oh and this whole post and thread is RACIST

Posted by: Jones/CO at October 15, 2008 06:29 PM (KOkrW)

63 And she isn't being frogmarched out of her office, why??

Posted by: Techie at October 15, 2008 06:30 PM (d621h)

64

What happens if this is a close election and the country has to wait 6 weeks while the Ohio SOS checks 50,000 provisional ballots?  It is incompetent hyperpartisan buffoons like this mental midget who will destroy this country.  She and Acorn (among others) are rendering it virtually impossible for this election to be seen as legitimate unless one side wins in a landslide. 

 

Posted by: Big E at October 15, 2008 06:30 PM (RWzXM)

65 Don't disagree with you, but I still think there's an upper bound on how many fake votes you can push through at the physical ballot level without just wholesale Chicago-style fraud. And this only matters when the margin is very thin anyway.

I agree. But Ohio will be close enough that fraud can and may make the difference.

I, for one, did not expect McCain to win by a bigger margin than Bush did.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:30 PM (/PwQS)

66

Apparently, after the early voting period in Ohio, there were only about 11,000 votes made, which surprised the folks expecting a swarm of eager Obama voters to swarm the polls.

I think it is quite possible that Team Obama's uber confidence on their ground game might be an example of planning for a caucus, which they're good at, opposed to a standard election, at which they're no better or worse than the GOP.

Posted by: Lee at October 15, 2008 06:32 PM (TxTIh)

67 I still think there's an upper bound on how many fake votes you can push through at the physical ballot level without just wholesale Chicago-style fraud. And this only matters when the margin is very thin anyway.--Posted by: Mætenloch

All the more reason to retain the paper ballot system, NOT COMPUTER. It would be simple enough for computer hacks to infest the computer results with instantly embedded votes from the fraudulent voter registrants.

How again does Australia go about the ballot vote and tally since every citizen must vote or pay a fine? Worth looking into the details.

Posted by: maverick muse at October 15, 2008 06:32 PM (F1b/5)

68 Scum, scum, scum, SCUM!

Posted by: Deuce Geary at October 15, 2008 06:33 PM (tR44u)

69 Fox just did the Obama credit card fraud story!

Posted by: JimD at October 15, 2008 06:33 PM (j/wD+)

70 again, if the left really beleives what they claim to beleive.  things like Global Warming for example, and that Republicans are real evil and the obsticle to saving the Earth and themselves...then you can rationalize doing virtually anything.

Posted by: jp at October 15, 2008 06:34 PM (DFDtC)

71 How many campaigns could be involved in:

1. Voter Fraud
2. Campaign Finance Fraud
3. Credit Card Fraud
4. Real Estate Corruption
5. Previous membership in socialist party
4. Terrorist Connections
5. Raises money for African wannabe dictator
6. Racist Church 20 years
7. Thuggery tactics to suppress opposition
8. Most liberal Record in the Senate
9. Least experience candidate
10. consistently lies to voters
11. Will not produce any records of consequence

And still be ahead in the polls?

Seriously? How on earth is this happening?

That's easy...we have turned into a nation used to picking winners like we pick American Idol.  This is the first American Idol president.  I read somewhere that only about 15% of the Americans knew who Nancy Pelosi was.  Maybe the outcome of this election will get more Americans involved next time... nah, no way.  That's what the re-education camps are for.

Posted by: sergei at October 15, 2008 06:34 PM (AGMH1)

72 Did someone already link this?

http://tinyurl.com/4a4voc

Useful.

Posted by: apotheosis at October 15, 2008 06:35 PM (xWk3U)

73

Eugenics was politcized science, look what that got us thanks to the true beleivers in it.  Holocaust, Planned parenthood....

Posted by: jp at October 15, 2008 06:35 PM (DFDtC)

74 The Obama campaign is very good in Caucus because intimidation is a factor. I don't mean that as a joke. But that communist style tradition of overrunning a room during a live vote, encircling opponents to appear larger, big intimidating volume, a large physical presence...

It is straight out of the Alinksy book to take over a city council, or union style vote.

It sounds like hyperbole, but it's not joke.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:35 PM (/PwQS)

75

I clicked over to see the article....seeing her snotty-looking-down-her-nose expression, I just will never be happy until I hear she is being charged with conspiring to commit fraud or influence an election, or something like that...there has to be a law that fits her actions.

Great news though! I hope somehow this knowledge will get out to the people who don't blog, and who don't watch FOX...

Posted by: freetofly at October 15, 2008 06:35 PM (NCxiW)

76 Jennifer Brunner is corrupt and needs to resign her office.

That's pretty plain to see.

If I lived in Ohio, I'd be calling for her impeachment or for the Gov. to fire her.

Posted by: Thea at October 15, 2008 06:36 PM (N0hv7)

77

THIS IS WHY we need to have a single nationwide standard for the presidential ballot, and have the vote over a three day mid-week period with plenty of time built in to GET IT RIGHT

and voter fraud should be a hanging offense

 

I keeeeeeeeeeeeeed flogging will do

Posted by: Jones/CO at October 15, 2008 06:37 PM (KOkrW)

78 Dear Sheeple,

It's obvious what this is.  The Chimperor McHilterburton was supposed to cancel elections in 2004; he's just waited a few years.  And what better way to cancel an election than to demand a full investigation into "voter fraud" while he brings in the black helicopters?  Gotta be Karl Rove.

/typical Kos/DU moonbat

But seriously, though: a gallon of Val-U-Rite says that something very similar to this appears in the Kos or DU fever swamps in the next few days. Hell, it's so crazy it might even be Olbermann crazy.

Posted by: bullfrog at October 15, 2008 06:40 PM (AlOqU)

79 Where are the protests? Where are the calls for the impeachment of this party hack? Where is the media indignation? 

*crickets*

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at October 15, 2008 06:40 PM (wba6w)

80 "All the more reason to retain the paper ballot system, NOT COMPUTER. It would be simple enough for computer hacks to infest the computer results with instantly embedded votes from the fraudulent voter registrants."

Alright, I'm going to give an unabashed plug for Canada.

Our elections work.

We debate politics heatedly like they do in any free country. Hell, I've been punched by a socialist nut on the campaign trail.

But I've also been a "scrutineer" or observer in our elections, and have talked with my other halfs from the other parties, plus our own candidates and campaign managers.

In Canada we use simple, easy paper ballots (put an x or any other mark in the big circle; only mark one circle or the ballot's spoiled; Canada election officials plus scrutineers observe every single ballot).

We count every vote and just don't have the degree of problems you do. We held an election yesterday where, sure, I wish the Conservatives had gotten a majority. But I'm positive Elections Canada tabulated the correct outcome to a very small margin of error.

We use the same paper ballots across the country and all parties have confidence in the outcome. And we have 5 of them in the House of Commons.

Why the hell states of America run proper elections with the confidence of your citizens?

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:42 PM (hawOV)

81 voter fraud should be a hanging offense

Mandatory sentencing.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 15, 2008 06:43 PM (Xl9pj)

82 Pointing out that Jennider Brunner was letting loads of possibly fraudulent votes go through the system undetected = RACIST!

Posted by: KingShamus at October 15, 2008 06:43 PM (5BgCg)

83 The really bad thing about this is even though this particular instance was caught, it still did its job.  Folks are that much more unlikely to trust the results of the election now.  Sure, all the moonbats will think the election was stolen unless Barry wins, but how many non-crazy folks are wondering if the election will be valid now?  Really bad stuff developing.

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at October 15, 2008 06:43 PM (ltwze)

84 ^can't

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:43 PM (hawOV)

85

I was once in charge of about a $450K inventory.  I was a new hire, and even as a new hire, I was required, almost immediately, to fixe the inventory.

When I was in the MC, I was in charge of TENS OF Millions of $, and not just millions, but millions of classified/secret materiels (do a page count bitches, it sucks)

If I was off by more than only HUNDREDS of dollars, my ass would have been fired.

I'm just saying.

Posted by: Wickedpinto at October 15, 2008 06:45 PM (ul7te)

86 And by "5" I mean "4". The Greens lost their seat.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:45 PM (hawOV)

87 Hey, wasn't the media ALL OVER this type of thing when what's-her-name Harris was in charge down in Florida?  What could've possibly changed since then?

Theoretical question: why is it than only conservatives seem to remember history?  I mean, it's not like this was even a decade ago... and judging by the number of "selected, not elected" and "let's not elect him again in 2004" stickers I still see around here....

Posted by: bullfrog at October 15, 2008 06:45 PM (AlOqU)

88

Republicans are supposed to take one for Team America this go round.  I'm pretty sure it's right in the media script.  Expose Demacorn cheating and you'll undermine the election system - do you really want to be responsible for undermining our elections? 

So bite a pillow as the Demacorns annoint the One.

Posted by: Bel Aire at October 15, 2008 06:45 PM (ocHBO)

89

In Fact, if I was IG'd when it came to my confidential documents, and I had a history of lying, it would have been a FELONY!

Just saying.  Wickedpinto, the crazy guy, is ALWAYS a good little boy, cuz I know what happens if you are not a good little boy.

Posted by: Wickedpinto at October 15, 2008 06:48 PM (ul7te)

90 Note from David Axelrod: capitalism has been discredited over the last 8 years.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:48 PM (/PwQS)

91 #'s 33 and 71

... Seriously? How on earth is this happening?

... This is the first American Idol president.

Right, because Obama's friends and many more like William Ayers have been working to subvert the system through their years of gnawing away at the framework of American education. Each successive generation has been filled with a little more "progressive" ideology and a bit less hard knowledge.

Posted by: NM Hick at October 15, 2008 06:49 PM (STXJ7)

92 Im disappointed in a lot of you.  Some are saying well there are only a few thousand fraud ballots so it most likely will not make a difference.  I say BULLSHIT.  This is unacceptable and we must root out all of this fraud.  The saying that this is a few thousand more votes than I get and I am pissed and it is an argument that we are in the right on and should not back down on.  I am not settling down when an organization gets many thousand times the votes that I do.

We should scream to the rafters and not stop screaming until IDs are required at all polling booths and a new way of verifying voters in adopted.  We finally have the evidence of the fraud that we have wanted to stop for years.  This is not the time to downplay.  This is a time to use the unbelievable advantage that just fell into our laps.  This is the time to fix this problem once and for all.  The far left that neither Republicans or Pumas like must never again be given the chance to be able to try and steal another election.

Posted by: David at October 15, 2008 06:49 PM (HAdov)

93 Oh God.  I've gone color blind. 

Posted by: Justin at October 15, 2008 06:51 PM (iH1PP)

94 So how does the media bury this one?

Posted by: mrkwong at October 15, 2008 06:51 PM (G8Eo0)

95 I find it hard to take anyone seriously who downplays voter fraud.

Either that or I find them sinister.

One of the two.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:51 PM (/PwQS)

96 Ace,

I'm sure the word is spelled "VOTE" with an e on the end.

I make typos all the time. I understand more than most.

But seriously, just proofread your headlines. Take an extra second before publishing and double-check that. It's by far the most noticed part of any post, except, perhaps, for this one, where everything is now red!

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:53 PM (hawOV)

97 But...but...we can't require photo ID because that's RACIST!  Because black people aren't capable of getting identification.  Or something.  Whatever.  We have to make it easy for them, as if they're children or something.

Otherwise we're racist.

Posted by: Kensington at October 15, 2008 06:53 PM (xFNQx)

98 First the Buckeye State goes and stinks up the last two National Championship games, now they're stinking up national elections.

Goddamn it, someone needs to turn zombie Woody Hayes loose on some motherfuckers cocksuckers.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at October 15, 2008 06:53 PM (Ulsfn)

99 This is criminal.

Posted by: Mark at October 15, 2008 06:53 PM (ig4x2)

100

Have you ever seen this bitch?  She's got token crazy eyes.  ANYTHING is possible. 

 

*Having visuals of her making a mad dash for it, knocking down Republicans and judges alike, clutching the ballots screaming "Mine! MINE!!"*

Posted by: Nicole at October 15, 2008 06:54 PM (3txVD)

101 Wow. Only Arizona requires you to prove you're an American citizen.

Only 1 state out of 57 requires proof of citizenship.

Amazing.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:55 PM (/PwQS)

102 The blog's got red on it.

Jail time.  Lots of it.  That should be answer to this.  That and naming names.  I'm not too hopeful about that last bit.

Posted by: alexthechick at October 15, 2008 06:56 PM (e1Gtg)

103 "What do you mean, I can only vote once? That's disenfranchisement!"

Posted by: seyont at October 15, 2008 06:56 PM (FcR7P)

104 Ace, what is your email address.  I got something that I think will be of HIGH INTEREST to you.

Posted by: phoenixrisen at October 15, 2008 06:57 PM (HBT4a)

105

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:55 PM (/PwQS)

Kossack Obamatron troll!

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:57 PM (hawOV)

106 This woman should should  face treason or sedition charges. If proven, this goes beyond criminal charges. She was actively committing treachery.

Posted by: SamIam at October 15, 2008 06:57 PM (jl7C/)

107 I'd like to point out here a feature of the Electoral College: it sets a high threshold for voter fraud since it would require fraud at a wide, national level to even come close to flipping an election. With the popular vote, it would only require some heavy fraud in a few key districts to flip the whole country.

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 06:57 PM (NaZcW)

108

Apparently the Obafuehrer will delay the start of game six of the World Series with his thirty minute harangue.

 

http://tinyurl.com/4jsykd

 

 


Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at October 15, 2008 06:58 PM (6BgmB)

109 "Jail time.  Lots of it.  That should be answer to this.  That and naming names.  I'm not too hopeful about that last bit."

I'm not hopeful about the first bit either. But there should be prosecution over this.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 06:58 PM (hawOV)

110 ... And I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for that meddling Canadian...

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 06:59 PM (/PwQS)

111 What the hell are we, the Congo?  WTF is going on?

Posted by: brak at October 15, 2008 06:59 PM (5s3CN)

112 Didn't you guys get the memo? The Dems control the FEC. Because we need to guarantee an Obama win!

/wish I was being sarcastic

Posted by: shibumi at October 15, 2008 07:00 PM (tZB/c)

113

Ace, what is your email address.  I got something that I think will be of HIGH INTEREST to you.

 

aceofspadeshq at gmail.com

Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2008 07:00 PM (VBon8)

114 What the hell are we, the Congo?

Don't be dissing the Congo.  Their elections are a lot more honest than ours.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 15, 2008 07:01 PM (Xl9pj)

115 100

Have you ever seen this bitch?  She's got token crazy eyes.  ANYTHING is possible.  Posted by: Nicole

Pointing out Jennifer Brunner's crazy eyes = RACIST!

Posted by: KingShamus at October 15, 2008 07:01 PM (5BgCg)

116 (red font so you see it):

aceofspadeshq

at

google's system which you might know as

gmail

dot

com.

replace the at and dot with the appropriate signs.  I have to write it this way or else bots spidering the internet for email addresses will grab it and I'l be spammed to death.

Posted by: ace at October 15, 2008 07:02 PM (1WR4H)

117 "I'd like to point out here a feature of the Electoral College: it sets a high threshold for voter fraud since it would require fraud at a wide, national level to even come close to flipping an election. With the popular vote, it would only require some heavy fraud in a few key districts to flip the whole country."

It's actually the other way around.

Off the top of my head, Bush beat Kerry by about 3.5 million votes nationally. The margin of victory in Ohio, of all places, was 118 thousand and change. That would have flipped the election if it had gone the other way. Of course, 538 votes1 would have been enough to flip the 2000 election!

So excellent post, except for the part where it's the exact opposite of how you say.


Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 07:03 PM (hawOV)

118 Mætenloch:

I can't agree with your conclusion. It's just the opposite. The electoral college allows for dramatic OVERCOUNTING to flip an election.

580 fraudulent votes would have flipped the 2000 election.

If you focus on one swing state in a close contest, it doesn't take that much fraud to overturn it.

But again, the amount of fraud is not the heart of the matter. The heart of the matter is that there is fraud. And people's votes are being taken away. Is there a more basic civil right than that? Where is the outrage from the American people? Citizen are having their right to vote.

This isn't some imaginary "suppression". This is someone who takes the long sludge out to vote, someone who makes the effort, and their vote might as well be thrown away when a fraudulent vote is cast.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 07:03 PM (/PwQS)

119

I've said it before here on AoSHQ and I'll say it once again...

These Dems are playing with fire.  If they really believe in their heart-of-hearts that the electorate is salivating at the chance to erupt in violence at the say-so of a pol, then just imagine the REAL violence that will erupt when people start to believe the election system isn't as inviolate as it's billed.

When people lose faith in the election system and start to believe it's fixed, then you'll start seeing the riots.  It sickens me that the Dems here are willing to endanger lives so their guy can get "elected."

Posted by: John Tant at October 15, 2008 07:04 PM (GxwSU)

120 Off topic question, how long does it take on average for most of you to load ace of spades? Since I switched from Comcast to Verizon it takes over 30 seconds to load and refresh this blog and some others as well.

Posted by: spypeach at October 15, 2008 07:05 PM (QwWKI)

121 I guess Brunner didn't hear about the 225,000 out of state ballots submitted by the KKK.

Posted by: Neo at October 15, 2008 07:05 PM (Yozw9)

122

I'd like to point out here a feature of the Electoral College: it sets a high threshold for voter fraud since it would require fraud at a wide, national level to even come close to flipping an election

 

Try the Kennedy election which was flipped by Texas and Chicago.

Posted by: Vic at October 15, 2008 07:06 PM (b1ysY)

123 I need a drink.  We're fucked.

*backs away from computer*

Posted by: brak at October 15, 2008 07:07 PM (5s3CN)

124 Oh lord, please let the McCain camp notice this and prep him to bring it up in the debate tonight. This is madness on a level I can't even wrap my head around. The democrats are really pulling out all the stops for this one, aren't they? It's bad enough that they've set up the narrative that a McCain win would equal racism, but through their own efforts to break the law the elect their secular messiah is setting up the equally unhealthy (although in this case correct) narrative that an Obama win would equal massive vote fraud.

I'm sure Ayers and others of his foul ilk are dancing with glee at the thought of the kind of internecine strife that will emerge in this country over the next presidential term. The only way that I see out of this is to expose all of this corruption, to expose the existential threat to the American identity that Obama's fascist-socialist philosophy poses, and to expose the degree to which he and the media have colluded to hide same, such that even some of the "blue states" of the last several cycles end up going to McCain.

Posted by: Idealist at October 15, 2008 07:09 PM (R3Pfx)

125 "These Dems are playing with fire.  If they really believe in their heart-of-hearts that the electorate is salivating at the chance to erupt in violence at the say-so of a pol, then just imagine the REAL violence that will erupt when people start to believe the election system isn't as inviolate as it's billed."

Hear, hear!

I've talked about this on these threads for months, and I believe it's a real and present danger to the United States of America as a functioning peaceful Republic.

History hasn't stopped just because you or I haven't experienced widespread political violence a.k.a. war at home. That's why maintaining a functioning fair democracy is so critical. The only 2 alternatives are tyranny and/or civil war.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 07:09 PM (hawOV)

126

Is it also racist to point out the inherent juxtiposition of this?: In March 2008, Brunner was given the Profile in Courage Award by the JFK Presidential Library and Museum.  She earned the award for challenging the reliability of electronic voting in order to protect the right to vote in Ohio. The award was announced on March 18, 2008. She received the award May 12, 2008. (wiki).

Posted by: Nicole at October 15, 2008 07:09 PM (3txVD)

127

It's actually the other way around.

Off the top of my head, Bush beat Kerry by about 3.5 million votes nationally. The margin of victory in Ohio, of all places, was 118 thousand and change. That would have flipped the election if it had gone the other way. Of course, 538 votes1 would have been enough to flip the 2000 election!

So excellent post, except for the part where it's the exact opposite of how you say.

No, I stand by it. We're in unusual times where the popular vote and the electoral votes are very, very close, but again this is unusual. Consider the 2000 election, if just 1000 more votes in FL had gone for Gore, he would have been president. Because of the EC, all the recounts were limited to FL. Without that  it would have been a free-for-all across the entire country, and I'm quite sure that the Democrats could have come up with 1000 more votes somwhere than the Republicans could.

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 07:10 PM (NaZcW)

128 "No, I stand by it."

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 07:10 PM (NaZcW)

Okay, but then you're totally mistaken, both mathematically and by recent experience.


Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 07:12 PM (hawOV)

129 Point of concern how many phoney voters were register in previous years ? ACORN has been in business since the 1970s.

Posted by: William Amos at October 15, 2008 07:13 PM (H4eDr)

130 "Without that  it would have been a free-for-all across the entire country, and I'm quite sure that the Democrats could have come up with 1000 more votes somwhere than the Republicans could."

Ummm... if it had been a popular vote election with no electoral college, the Democrats wouldn't have had to bother. Under those terms, Gore would have won it fair and square.

You did know that, didn't you?

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 07:13 PM (hawOV)

131

Ace,

What is the URL for the site for people to fraudulently offer their addresses?

I'd like to visit some of these nice people...you know...just to check out the accomodations.

Posted by: fred at October 15, 2008 07:15 PM (0XpI7)

132 Apparently Brunner is not concerned with the disenfranchisement of those voters who are legally and validly registered voters, whose votes stand to be countered by illegal votes.  Nope - the only disenfranchisement she's worried about is that which might exist for votes that might be illegal votes.

Posted by: Reine at October 15, 2008 07:16 PM (0V+eT)

133

No, I stand by it. We're in unusual times where the popular vote and the electoral votes are very, very close, but again this is unusual. Consider the 2000 election, if just 1000 more votes in FL had gone for Gore, he would have been president. Because of the EC, all the recounts were limited to FL. Without that  it would have been a free-for-all across the entire country, and I'm quite sure that the Democrats could have come up with 1000 more votes somwhere than the Republicans could.

In order to flip the total difference in NATIONAL votes would take MILLIONS of votes, to just flip one state just takes a THOUSAND votes (or less)

Posted by: JimD at October 15, 2008 07:16 PM (j/wD+)

134

Ummm... if it had been a popular vote election with no electoral college, the Democrats wouldn't have had to bother. Under those terms, Gore would have won it fair and square.

You did know that, didn't you?

Yes, and so did both candidates which is why they ran a national campaign to win in the EC. Otherwise Bush would have spent a lot time in red states running up his totals.

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 07:18 PM (NaZcW)

135

In order to flip the total difference in NATIONAL votes would take MILLIONS of votes, to just flip one state just takes a THOUSAND votes (or less)

Only if that state is already effectively tied, and this only matters natinally if the EC is otherwise nearly even.

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 07:20 PM (NaZcW)

136 Point of concern how many phoney voters were register in previous years?

In decades past they probably were concentrating on fraud quality rather than quantity.  Getting a smaller but more reliable and less detectable on an election to election basis cadre of fraudulent multiple/dead voters in there.

What we're seeing now is the overreach associated with hubris and delusions of invincibility.  If they stayed small, focused on quality fraud, and just scammed enough to ensure local elections, nobody would have ever discovered it.

20K fraudulent registrations is a number that can be swept under the rug.  200K is not.  ACORN fucked up this time.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 15, 2008 07:20 PM (Xl9pj)

137 Shepard Smith is a little bitch.

just sayin

Posted by: jadedinga at October 15, 2008 07:23 PM (LJnG/)

138 Mætenloch,

You're not making a lick of sense, I'm afraid. The incentive would not be to focus on the states where you could run up your total, but to go where the population was most dense. After all, a vote there would count as much.

This was the very reason the EC was invented. So more rural states would not be ignored.

You're being a little stubborn here. Back away from the keyboard.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 07:23 PM (/PwQS)

139 I'm from Ohio (Go Buckeyes!) and even worked under Jim Petro, who should've been the candidate for governor in 2006 rather than the inept Blackwell. Ohio was the poster state for republican misconduct leading to a democratic takeover of the government. Culture of corruption and all that. What do we get in return? Mark Dann, who almost made it a year and a half as Petro's replacement in the Attorney General's office before getting into his own hot water. Now we have this. Buckeyes won't put up with this for long, and don't be surprised if the state goes back to full red in 2010.

Posted by: Alex at October 15, 2008 07:23 PM (4zRtQ)

140 I have to wonder just what number is large enough for any media besides Fox to sit up and take notice.  It used to be "well, it's just a couple of hundred invalid registrations...." then "well, it's just a couple of thousand invalid registrations..."

Now we're at fucking 200,000!  In one fucking state!  Is that a big enough number to get some fucking screaming headlines on this yet?

If they were so confident that their guy was so far ahead that there was no way he was gonna lose, wouldn't they want this to be the cleanest election possible, so there would be no chance at all that someone could call "fraud" on the whole fucking deal?

This continuing effort to fucking cheat their way into power is extremely telling , regarding the power of (and their faith in) their ideas.

Posted by: wiserbud at October 15, 2008 07:25 PM (EW49d)

141

I notice that the “popular vote” screaming and elimination of the Electoral College has stopped. Maybe the dumbass dems have finally figured out that this is not the big help they think it is.  With the census bureau counting illegals the population of both CA and NY is artificially inflated for representatives and electors. Eliminate the Electoral College and all of a sudden a lot of Republican voters in both those States will now count whereas in the past they haven’t.

 

The entire campaigning strategy would change.

Posted by: Vic at October 15, 2008 07:26 PM (b1ysY)

142 Here's some goddamn disenfranchisement, Brunner--when 20 or 30,000 LEGAL voters have their votes canceled by ILLEGITIMATE voters.
Kiss my hairy ball sack, you treasonous harpy.

Posted by: Flubber at October 15, 2008 07:27 PM (KAU7G)

143 The electoral college has advantages, Mætenloch, but not the one you're talking about. There you're wrong. It is, as TomV and I pointed out, the exact opposite of your assertion, by simple math born out by experience in the last 2 elections.

However, you made a good point when you wrote:

"Otherwise Bush would have spent a lot time in red states running up his totals."

That is true to a degree. An advantage of the electoral college system is it forces candidates to campaign in states they otherwise might not give as much attention to.

Why I said it's true only to a degree is it's not so much that Bush or Kerry would have spent their time in red or blue states, but they would have both campaigned hardest in the most populist states.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 07:27 PM (hawOV)

144

New McCain message for the evening.

"Thank you for the question, Bob, but before I go any further I must address this issue.  There is a report out of Ohio today that over 200,000 unverifiable voter registration forms have been submitted to the state.  Many of these registrations are coming from the same source, ACORN.  This activity is being reported in states all across America.  This is nothing short of an attack on our most precious right as citizens, the right for all citizens to have their vote count.

Senator Obama, you have had a long history working with ACORN from your days organizing with them in Chicago to working with them on the subprime mortgage process with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  You paid ACORN over $800,000 earlier this year for election support.

I am calling on you tonight to tell ACORN to stop this type of voter manipulation.  I, in turn, am calling on the DOJ to look into this matter to see if federal voting laws have been viotlated.  All Americans deserve to vote in a free and fair election.

Now, what the fuck was your question, Bob?"

Then you woke up right?  LOL

 

Posted by: Constitutionista at October 15, 2008 07:30 PM (X7Ey1)

145 Christ. At least in 2000, they waited until AFTER the election to start fucking around. They've abandoned any pretense of subtlety, it seems.

'Scuse me while I go buy a rifle . . .

Posted by: Tungsten Monk at October 15, 2008 07:30 PM (lnmGr)

146 And Brunner took an oath to uphold the Constitution and laws of the State of Ohio.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 15, 2008 07:30 PM (ZGhSv)

147 Correction: the proper word was "populated" not populist.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 07:31 PM (hawOV)

148

There you're wrong. It is, as TomV and I pointed out, the exact opposite of your assertion, by simple math born out by experience in the last 2 elections.

I would argue that the last 2 elections were outliers - usually the popular vote and EC aren't so even. And my original assertion was that on the whole the EC system is less sensitive to localized voter fraud.

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 07:32 PM (NaZcW)

149 What the hell are we, the Congo?

The Democratic Republic of the Congo, if you please, you...racist.

Posted by: Flubber at October 15, 2008 07:34 PM (KAU7G)

150 Thank God for this Internet thingy. How else could we be properly informed of attempts to steal this election?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 15, 2008 07:36 PM (ZGhSv)

151 I'm actually more outraged by the blatent fraud of those "vote from home" people.  If I were an Ohio citizen, I would be furious.  Basically, you have a few hundred (or possibly thousand) folks living in in NY, DC, or fucking London who aren't citizens of Ohio voting, not just for president, but for a shit load of other Ohio ballot measures.  I really wouldn't want some dumbass at Oxford, who has probably never set foot in the state, voting on how Ohioan tax dollars are spent, or on amendments to the Ohio constitution.   

Posted by: Meezle at October 15, 2008 07:36 PM (XRHfc)

152 "And my original assertion was that on the whole the EC system is less sensitive to localized voter fraud."

With all due respect, your assertion is incorrect.

The whole point of the electoral college is to add a local dynamic to an otherwise purely national election for President. The EC magnifies the importance of local state-by-state politics. Therefore it's more sensitive to localized voter fraud.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 07:37 PM (hawOV)

153 Legal legitimate voting is the basis of our republic, and any voter fraud is  unacceptable.  Hang em all.

Posted by: Farmer at October 15, 2008 07:37 PM (L42hv)

154

I'm reminded of the Elvis Costello song, Waiting For The End Of The World.

Just buy the entire fucking stock market and name Obama the "Beloved Leader" right now to make sure the system is happy. 

Posted by: Shrug at October 15, 2008 07:39 PM (/DlqX)

155 The first pitch of the World Series is being pushed back ....to air an Obama political spot.



Posted by: jadedinga at October 15, 2008 07:39 PM (LJnG/)

156 It was on Fox.
I'm too fucking depressed to link it .

Posted by: jadedinga at October 15, 2008 07:40 PM (LJnG/)

157

Get the cheatin' bastards.

http://tiny.cc/vIlWf

 

Posted by: buckichick1 at October 15, 2008 07:41 PM (VosQz)

158 You rethuglicans are such.... whoops, gotta go. Mom wants the computer.

Posted by: Magic Dog at October 15, 2008 07:41 PM (DMHwf)

159 They don't need to push through all 200,000 fraudulent ballots to win. Polling staff is dominated by Dems who intimidate any GOP people present. They wait until the polls close, then get the word from Dem Central telling them how many votes they need to flip a district. Then they crack open the fraudulent registrations and start voting as many as they need.

Posted by: lmg at October 15, 2008 07:42 PM (A/vgC)

160 I am finally satisfied that I don't need to do any more bombing.  This country is exactly as fucked up as I hoped it would be someday.

Posted by: B. Ayers at October 15, 2008 07:42 PM (/DlqX)

161

#155 The first pitch of the World Series is being pushed back ....to air an Obama political spot.

Are you serious??  Is this the 30 minute ad?  So, basically, Obama bought an uninterrupted 30 minute block of ad time right before the World Series.  That's just sick.

Posted by: Meezle at October 15, 2008 07:43 PM (XRHfc)

162 fuck you and  DIAF , Magic Dog shit.


Posted by: jadedinga at October 15, 2008 07:43 PM (LJnG/)

163 I've never heard concern over voter fraud being called "whining" before.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 07:44 PM (/PwQS)

164 Check out the latest over at Michelle Malkin's blog.  Out of state Obama activists are registering at an address to make themselves appear as Ohio voters. 

Posted by: phoenixrisen at October 15, 2008 07:44 PM (HBT4a)

165

The whole point of the electoral college is to add a local dynamic to an otherwise purely national election for President. The EC magnifies the importance of local state-by-state politics. Therefore it's more sensitive to localized voter fraud.

And how would that not be even more true for a popular vote system?

Suppose Chicago could by use of fraud cast an extra 20 million votes for a Democrat. In the EC system, this could at most affect IL, but with the popular vote it would almost certainly determine the election. Now in practice Illinois's EC votes might determine the election as well, but that's not always the case.

In fact you could allow an almost infinite level of voter fraud in the top 5 Democratic cities, and yet this wouldn't affect the EC counts.

 

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 07:45 PM (NaZcW)

166 Ace, are you going to set up the piece-of-shit liveblog for the debate? I know you guys will ignore all of my comments, but at least I can read yours.

Posted by: Jim62sch at October 15, 2008 07:47 PM (ubHgw)

167 Mætenloch:

You are only correct that in a landslide, yes it would be difficult to steal an election. But that applied whether majority or EC is used. Other than that you are in error, and I'm afraid standing by some flawed logic.

I have done this before myself when my ego got the better of me, but it doesn't make you any more correct.

Posted by: TomV at October 15, 2008 07:47 PM (/PwQS)

168 Mætenloch, the only way your assertion could possibly be true is if the electoral college system diminished the importance of the individual states in the election for President.

Clearly it's designed to do the opposite. And it does.

Therefore, everything local is magnified by the electoral college, including:

1. legitimate local voting results in the individual states; as well as
2. any local voter fraud.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 07:48 PM (hawOV)

169 "More than 200,000 Ohioans who registered to vote this year for the first time or updated their voting information since Jan. 1 could be affected by the latest court ruling"

I "like" the fact that news story refers to the 200,000  as "Ohioans" instead of unverifiable registrations.

Posted by: Chuck at October 15, 2008 07:48 PM (acl2n)

170

#144 Constitutionista:

Exactly right.

Exactly what I want to hear out of McCain and company.

 

Posted by: Just sayin' at October 15, 2008 07:49 PM (5nhcQ)

171 Yep - and it looks like ACORN/Obama is RICO after all...

Looks like the MSM will be piling onto this, finally, if only to control the narrative.
“We believe in giving people a second chance,” Jackson said.Hmmm... sounds eerily like the line used to paint Ayers as "mainstream".

Posted by: goy at October 15, 2008 07:49 PM (G3AZj)

172 Buckeyes won't put up with this for long, and don't be surprised if the state goes back to full red in 2010.

I hope you're right Alex; 2006 was bad enough with Ted "Twitch" Strickland getting in as governor.  So far his biggest accomplishment has been balancing the budget by allowing state-run Keno games in bars.  I've heard that he seems to understand that the state has lost so many fucking jobs because the cost of operating in the state is so prohibitive, but if Obastard gets elected they're all gonna be leaving the whole goddamn country so it will be moot.  The best move would be to run that commie cocksucker Sherrod Brown from the Senate but I don't think that can be done until 2012; by then the whole fucking state will look like Lorain.  Plus any election that gets rid of RINO Groin-itch will be one to celebrate.

Posted by: Captain Hate at October 15, 2008 07:49 PM (m2sQh)

173 guess this New Comment Thingy doesn't like tinyurls, despite the crappy warning.

;-P

Just go to HillBuzz - they have the scoop.

Posted by: goy at October 15, 2008 07:50 PM (G3AZj)

174 Notify the schools and employers of the merry band of fraudsters--with the feds sitting on their hands, it's time for us to notify Stanford a bum is entering this fall and the company in DC that they have a dishonest thief working for them.

Posted by: cf at October 15, 2008 07:51 PM (63SUv)

175 140 I have to wonder just what number is large enough for any media besides Fox to sit up and take notice.  It used to be "well, it's just a couple of hundred invalid registrations...." then "well, it's just a couple of thousand invalid registrations..."
Now we're at fucking 200,000!  In one fucking state!  Is that a big enough number to get some fucking screaming headlines on this yet?
If they were so confident that their guy was so far ahead that there was no way he was gonna lose, wouldn't they want this to be the cleanest election possible, so there would be no chance at all that someone could call "fraud" on the whole fucking deal?
This continuing effort to fucking cheat their way into power is extremely telling , regarding the power of (and their faith in) their ideas.

 I know, for a fact, that those in my family, my two brothers, my father, my grandfather, multiple cousins and uncles did not serve/die for this kind of election. Our family's service span many wars and and many sacrifices and frankly I'm all kinds of horrified. I have four sons and I'm truly troubled about their country's future.

Posted by: Mainstreet at October 15, 2008 07:52 PM (XWJh5)

176 Hm.

So what are Ohio's governor and Ag doing about this?

Posted by: richard mcenroe at October 15, 2008 07:53 PM (ScoG3)

177 I have a plan.

And I'm gonna let Obama help pay for it with his contributions to ACORN.

Time to give as good as we're given.

Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at October 15, 2008 07:54 PM (eDdOG)

178

goy at October 15, 2008 07:50 PM (G3AZj)

Just read it.  Awesome.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2008 07:55 PM (VBon8)

179 What did anyone expect?

Posted by: whiskey at October 15, 2008 07:56 PM (4878o)

180 What the hell are we, the Congo?  WTF is going on?

When it gets that bad the Dems will be eating the Republicans. No, we're just becoming North Mexico.

Posted by: lmg at October 15, 2008 07:56 PM (A/vgC)

181 Holy Shit Jackstraw; that needs its own flaming skull!!!

Posted by: Captain Hate at October 15, 2008 07:57 PM (m2sQh)

182 That piece of shit Obama is going to be the fucking President of the United States of ACORN.  I am so saddened that a man--who has accomplished NOTHING and is friends with terrorists, racists and all around America haters is about to steal this election from a man who has honorably our country his entire life.  When did we allow the Democrats --along with their criminal ACORN allies --to turn this great country into a banana republic??? I have to go throw up now.

Posted by: Suzy at October 15, 2008 07:57 PM (61Hv+)

183 Of course, one wonders how a functioning retard like me is able to even use a computer.

Hint: Mom helps me log on.

Posted by: Diderot's dog at October 15, 2008 07:58 PM (nrD02)

184 This deserves the first ever use of 2 flaming skulls!

Posted by: dfbaskwill at October 15, 2008 07:59 PM (z6fKT)

185 No matter who wins this election, I'll still be the boy who everyone teases about his looks and lack of athleticism. Life is sad sometimes.

Posted by: Diderot's dog at October 15, 2008 08:00 PM (nrD02)

186

Captain Hate-

I can't take credit for this one.  This one is all goy.

Always wanted an excuse to say that.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 15, 2008 08:01 PM (VBon8)

187 I eat my own poop after dipping it in ketchup.

Posted by: Diderot's dog at October 15, 2008 08:02 PM (nrD02)

188
#67
How again does Australia go about the ballot vote and tally since every citizen must vote or pay a fine? Worth looking into the details.
http://www.aec.gov.au/
With regards to the fine issue, you'd  have to be an impressively moronic moron to pay it.
The "I got sooo rat-arsed on Valu-Rite at a pre-election party that I didn't regain consciousness until after the polls closed." excuse for not voting is accepted by the AEC.

Posted by: lotocoti at October 15, 2008 08:03 PM (TYlAH)

189

#183 Obama is way too far ahead in too many states for any "fraudulent votes" to decide anything.

First, absolutely nothing justifies or excuses voter/registration fraud.  How far ahead Obama may or may not be is irrelevant.  We are treading dangerously close to a crisis here if the American people cannot/ do not trust the validity of election results.

Second, there are a hell of a lot on these state ballots other than the vote for president.  A few hundred or thousand illegal votes could mean the difference in a local race, a congressional race, or a ballot measure.  There is more at stake here than just Obama versus McCain. 

Posted by: Meezle at October 15, 2008 08:05 PM (XRHfc)

190

the wisdom of the electoral college continues to be apparent

if the president were elected by popular vote, one only needs to campaign in the populous regions of the US- the coastal states and big cities

EC makes sure President is elected by national consensus, or as close as we can get to that ideal

 

of course this is all laid out in Federalist No. 68

 

Democrats would love to destroy this

Posted by: Jones/CO at October 15, 2008 08:06 PM (KOkrW)

191

>some lefty blogs are betting Schieffer himself will raise Ayers, relieving McCain of the burden of his cowardice.

It is more likely that an asteroid will strike this Planet tonight than it is likely Schieffer will bring up Ayers

Posted by: Jones/CO at October 15, 2008 08:09 PM (KOkrW)

192 I wish Secretary of State Brunner the best of luck in her new career, and trust they'll have her manning (personing?) the driveup window in no time.

Posted by: tasteslikechicken at October 15, 2008 08:09 PM (k9ktm)

193 Meezle, ignore Diderot's Pile and read #178's link

Posted by: Captain Hate at October 15, 2008 08:09 PM (m2sQh)

194

My point is that the EC system is more robust against pockets of intense fraud than the popular vote in general.

If you gave the Chicago Democrat bosses an extra trillion (pinky to mouth) votes, with majority vote they could consistently determine the outcome of every election. At least until the rest of the country wised up. Yet in the EC system, this could at worst flip a signle state. So I would argue the EC system can better withstand severe fraud attacks as long as they're localized.

Now it's true that with our current population and political distribution only a handful of states are up for grabs by either candidate. And if you focused your voter fraud in these states, you might be able to flip the entire election. But you'd have to concentrate on these states and they have high visibility.

The alternative with a majority vote system is that you could have a fraud factory somewhere in Cook county that would always flip the election. 

[sorry I have to take off, so we'll have to continue the debate in the overnight thread ]

Posted by: Mætenloch at October 15, 2008 08:11 PM (NaZcW)

195 Hey, Maetenloch, no worries, you're a good guy.

Have a good night, enjoy the debate, and we'll all get drunk together one day, probably November 4th.

Posted by: Christoph at October 15, 2008 08:14 PM (hawOV)

196

"Wow, you Republicans sure whine a lot. Would you like some Velveeta to go with that?"

Oh yeah?  Did you hear your Messiah whining and belly-aching to the NYT about Fox News?  Ask him if he wants some cheese--although I'm certain he doesn't condescend to eat Velveeta.

Posted by: Nicole at October 15, 2008 08:20 PM (3txVD)

197 And still be ahead in the polls? Seriously? How on earth is this happening?

The polls are adjusted for all of the new voter registrations and how they are likely to vote. Many of these are fake, but the polls are still adjusted before being released. Maybe the reason McCain isn't aggressive as some would like in the face of losing in the polls is that his own polls show a different picture.

Posted by: Z at October 15, 2008 08:23 PM (XF8Kl)

198 YAWN. No one but us cares even a little about any of this stuff. Ayers, Wright, fraud....................et al? NO ONE CARES...

Posted by: JS at October 15, 2008 08:25 PM (DHdVk)

199

We have a "long-standing tradition" (formerly known as Article I of the Constitution) against "ex post facto" punishment. We cannot invoke a new punishment for a crime already committed, or make a previously legal act a crime retroactively.

Therefore I suggest that the next Ohio Secretary of State who tries this be trussed upside down from a lamp-post on the state capitol lawn, machine-gunned, then sewn into a sack with wild animals and thrown into the Olentangy.

See? That's legal and constitutional. And unless it's Jennifer Brunner again next time, she's got nothing to worry about. Like she's worried.

Seriously: McCain will not mention this, she will not be impeached or indicted, and once the Dems win, all investigation will be referred to subcommittee. Because that's how the two-party system works.

 

Posted by: comatus at October 15, 2008 08:30 PM (2kOI0)

200

Simple solution to the problem: Ohio EC members get stripped of their votes.

Then let the Ohioans sort out their problems in the manner they best see fit.

Unconstitutional, yeah, but that isn't gonna be a big problem this time around.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at October 15, 2008 08:34 PM (hCSTJ)

201

A carton of Kools, a couple 40s, and some foldin' money. So what?

You RACISTS need to chill.

The One

Posted by: Barry at October 15, 2008 08:36 PM (JQwWt)

202

Barry, that's inflationary.

"But Richard...for Wales?"    --for All Seasons

These proud Ohioans were selling their registrations for one cigarette. Not a carton, no Bull, no cash.

And: Ohio has a law against giving away cigarettes. Indictments in 3..2..1...

Posted by: comatus at October 15, 2008 08:48 PM (2kOI0)

203 Young Obama cultists signing up to vote in whatever swing state

Gah!  Look at those two college students in that video doing the job that "professional" journalists have neglected to do.

Posted by: Warden at October 15, 2008 08:51 PM (QoR4a)

204 After the vote fraud committed by King County, WA in 2004, I followed  www.soundpolitics.com for a while.

I was *amazed* at the ability of some people to rationalize voter fraud as just "giving everyone a chance."

These same people could not comprehend (or could not acknowledge) that an illegally cast vote CANCELS a legal one, thus certainly disenfranchising *someone*.

These people uniformly spouted leftist crap. Quelle surprise.

I honestly am starting to fear for our country. Well, we've had a good run of it.

Posted by: qrstuv at October 15, 2008 08:52 PM (+VH0A)

205 "We have a "long-standing tradition" (formerly known as Article I of the Constitution) against "ex post facto" punishment. We cannot invoke a new punishment for a crime already committed, or make a previously legal act a crime retroactively."

This is classic RICO.  It's been illegal since the 70's.  That the corrupt organization in this instance is the Ohio Secretary of State's Office doesn't make it any less a crime.  There's nothing ex post facto about it.

Posted by: Dave J at October 15, 2008 08:54 PM (qsGH+)

206 Report over on Protein Wisdom that Scott Levenson is in the audience.

I suppose a perp walk is too much to hope for.

Posted by: Dead Career Sketch at October 15, 2008 08:54 PM (DZO/4)

207

Dave J: There must be part of RICO that I didn't read. You're saying it's all right to truss her upside down on the statehouse lawn, machine gun her, sew her in a sack with wild animals, and throw her in the Olentangy?

Go for it, man. On the machine-gunning part, I'm willing to wait until the next infraction.

Posted by: comatus at October 15, 2008 09:36 PM (2kOI0)

208

Well, why shouldn't democrats do this?  After all, to them power and winning are the supreme values, not democracy.  And, if cheating allowed JFK to win an election that by rights should have gone to Nixon in 1960, and it did, why shouldn't cheating work for Obama?

IF they win, they get power and maybe keep it, and if they lose, they know the Republicans don't have the courage to go after them.  There is no cost to them, and a lot to gain, so why not? 

Posted by: IamnotanumberIamafreeman at October 15, 2008 11:16 PM (ZTNzR)

209 Bwahahahahaha!!!!! Little fucktard Republicans are already whining about losing the election. I LOVE IT! Keep entertaining me, boys.

Posted by: WINNER at October 15, 2008 11:50 PM (zaila)

210 We know who they are, so are they going to be prosecuted? Haven't heard anything about that yet.

Posted by: peoria at October 15, 2008 11:59 PM (JLK25)

211 #209, you guys are far more entertaining. Talk about incompetent...the Democrats can't even steal an election properly.

Posted by: douray at October 16, 2008 12:06 AM (XStq4)

212 Check out the latest over at Michelle Malkin's blog. Out of state Obama activists are registering at an address to make themselves appear as Ohio voters.

Yep, and I know of the place, because I live about 2 miles from it. Close to the doctor/lawyer/liberal enclave of Bexley, and also in a rather "depressed" neighbourhood as well.

Posted by: cheshirecat at October 16, 2008 12:38 AM (+8wDk)

213 These proud Ohioans were selling their registrations for one cigarette. Not a carton, no Bull, no cash.

And: Ohio has a law against giving away cigarettes. Indictments in 3..2..1...


Well, you should see the price of cigarettes these days in Ohio...of course, you can't fucking SMOKE them anywhere in Ohio, bars included.

Posted by: cheshirecat at October 16, 2008 12:39 AM (+8wDk)

214 Oh yeah? Did you hear your Messiah whining and belly-aching to the NYT about Fox News? Ask him if he wants some cheese--although I'm certain he doesn't condescend to eat Velveeta.

I'm not a big fan of McCain, but it would be nice to wake up on the 5th November to see McCain win by a 10-15% margin, just to see the silly smirks of the Ocommunists being smacked off.

Posted by: cheshirecat at October 16, 2008 12:42 AM (+8wDk)

215 All organizations that do voter registration are required by federal law to submit all completed forms. It's up to the Secretary of State to determine if they are valid or not. So, it's a good thing that all those false ACORN registrations were found. The system works. Now, if Jennifer Brunner is refusing to do her job of verifying these registration forms. That's a problem. However, the real problem will be if person responsible for the inaccurate registration votes or the recipient of a false ballot/registration votes, that's a federal offense.

Posted by: schrammalama at October 16, 2008 02:24 AM (7QROt)

216 Well, why shouldn't republicans do this? After all, to them power and winning are the supreme values, not democracy. And, if cheating allowed Bush to win an election that by rights should have gone to Gore in 2000, and it did, why shouldn't cheating work for McCain?

IF they win, they get power and maybe keep it, and if they lose, they know the Democrats don't have the courage to go after them. There is no cost to them, and a lot to gain, so why not?

Posted by: schrammalama at October 16, 2008 02:26 AM (7QROt)

217 Any cocksucker that is perpetrating election fraud should be shackled and put on trial for this shit - that includes politicians that are not doing their duties (read this Brenner, you fraudulent bitch).  Also, take away their right to vote...you want to fuck the system, the system should be able to fuck you in the ass...

Goddamned cocksuckers...jail time with Bubba would change their mindset...

Posted by: Eeyore's Swinging Sack at October 16, 2008 02:31 AM (VYEVW)

218

#212

And a prosecutor is already on the case.

 

#194

 

Acorn is in 27 states and being investigated in 11 states, maybe more by now! Drudge had a report a few days ago about  Indianapolis having more registered voters than eligible residents.

Posted by: Janet at October 16, 2008 07:56 AM (yI2pb)

219 Even if they have 200,000 fake registrations, they still need people to cast actual ballots. And supposing they have 5,000 people in on the scam, they would still have to vote 40 times each. Seems like it would be fairly hard to pull off without a lot of coordination. The left is good at one thing, and one thing only: organization.

Posted by: Darrell at October 16, 2008 09:42 AM (JSstJ)

220 Boy, did that comment not appear properly. Can't use blockquote tags here I guess. Try that again: "Even if they have 200,000 fake registrations, they still need people to cast actual ballots. And supposing they have 5,000 people in on the scam, they would still have to vote 40 times each. Seems like it would be fairly hard to pull off without a lot of coordination." The left is good at one thing, and one thing only: organization.

Posted by: Darrell at October 16, 2008 09:44 AM (JSstJ)

221 Ahh, the hell with it.

Posted by: Darrell at October 16, 2008 09:44 AM (JSstJ)

222 Is there any reason why the judge shouldn't throw Brunner's ass in jail for contempt on Friday?

Posted by: Ken Hahn at October 16, 2008 09:57 AM (dWcV1)

223 At the end of the article..FBI?  Hello!! FBI?   Don't count on them they are to busy raiding the CMHA offices and the county commisioner offices all democraticlly controlled of course

Posted by: Jon Brooks at October 16, 2008 10:53 AM (q8AN/)

224 So hold on, this story has been going on forever.  Where do things stand right now this second?  Did this move in the court or are we flaming skull to highlight the voter fraud found on the web?

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