1 Obama: "that's right ignorant rubes, you will work from dawn til dusk and I, The ONE, will decide who gets the fruits of your labor."

2 The only connection you can make between Obama and this plumber is based on his race.

3 We're f-ked.

4 Freakin' idiot Marxist!!!

5 ***shudder***

6 OT

"McCain-hating" Michelle fires back at Frank Rich and Paul Krugman, defending McCain and McCain voters.

7 About time Michelle waved the poms poms just a little

8 Don't forget Obama's proposed "civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded as our military" which he will use to enforce the "spreading" of butt cheeks.

9 I just saw this on Foxnews.com. This should be sent to every small business owner.

10 Dissent and asking other people to pay higher taxes define True Patriotism, you racist.

11

Send this Stalinist poseur back to South Chicago where he belongs.

12 The only thing Obama spread around here during his visits was 100% USDA grade bullshit. 

13

Elected officials in Chicago made international news last week by proposing to create a public high school for gay, lesbian and transgender students.

The Pride Campus of the School for Social Justice is set to open with 600 students in 2010, and its curriculum promises to "teach the history of all people who have been oppressed and the civil rights movements that have led to social justice and queer studies."

It seems the Obama's idea of educational reform is to sequester groups of youngsters from their peers and steep them in liberal dogma.  Presumably with electives in perpetual victim-hood.

I still boggle that people are so fucking stupid they think he will be anything but a catastrophe for America.

14 believe it or not this is going on now to a certain degree, ive seen lower paid
ppl in the health care field get back several thousand dollars at tax time and im
sure obama would like to expand this in other ways

15 From the video, it didn't look like the plumber was liking what he was hearing. Does the guy respond?

16 Oh, you're just a bunch of bitter people clinging to your bible, guns and paychecks.

17 How will they square this with the new Robin Hood movie told from the perspective of Nottingham law enforcement?

18 This still doesn't explain the whole M&M "best living rapper" thing.

I mean really, did Sir Mix-A-Lot pass away?

Obama said in an interview he wasn't concerned with higher tax rates reducing government revenue because it was an issue of fairness.  Obama could give Milton Friedman a Cleveland steamer and the media would report it as a "high-level consultation with one of Reagan's most trusted economic advisers".

And most Americans seem to want socialism anyway.  "Life isn't always fair" doesn't resonate anymore.

19 Uhmmm  taxpayer money as a metaphor for "I can't believe it's not butter"?
And the public laps it up...

When is the next transport leaving for Benards Star?

K

20 This could be used as a link to Obama's socialist/radical past and the direction he will take our country if he is elected.  Sadly McCain is not likely to make that point at the debate or anywhere else.

21 No, he doesn't respond in any of the vids I've found, but take a look at the kid with the white/black hat in the background, nodding his head up and down like a good obot. I'm sure the plumber (guy who asked question) isn't going to vote for BO after that answer.

22 He has already made it ABUNDANTLY clear that he likes pie.  Your pie, and my pie, and that other guy's pie...

nom nom nom

23 9 I just saw this on Foxnews.com. This should be sent to every small business owner.
Posted by: KCLady at October 13, 2008 04:53 PM (4eYzF)

My dad owns a very successful small business, and he's more freaked out by Obama than I am.

And I think Obama would likely bring up my husband on war crimes trial since he's a military pilot and has done some of that work over Afghanistan. You know, that whole air raiding of innocent villages and murdering of civilians?

Let's just say that the whole chicken family is in a real lather.

24

Yesterday in Bible study we were discussing what evil angels do, and the topic came around to discrimination. I said there are two kinds of discrimination. The first is what we think of usually - when we make judgments based on what doesn't matter, like not voting for somebody because of their race or gender. That's bad discrimination. But there is discrimination that's good and necessary. For instance, "You have no way to pay this loan back; therefore I'm not going to give it to you." When we don't properly discriminate, evil thrives.

I explained that the KGB wanted to get rich, powerful people in media, education, and business to believe it would be good to have a society with NO discrimination. That doesn't just mean we don't have the bad discrimination, but also that we don't have the good discrimination. So there's no difference between those who work and those who don't, those who make sound choices and those who don't, etc. Everyone is guaranteed the same outcome regardless of what they do. Nothing we do matters. That's what communism is, and people who live under it often end up alcoholics or an average of 6 abortions in their lifetime. If what we do doesn't matter, we lose the will to live. That's the legacy of communism.

I mentioned that Yuri Bezmenov was amazed at how the openly-communist folks from the '60's are in control of media, education, and business. And wherever someone totally controls the flow of ideas, it's ripe for the devil and his surrogates to lie and deceive. As long as the realities of life and the truth are observable to everyone, we're not going to wander too far from reality. But when the truth is hidden, people can't learn from reality.

Then I made my fatal error. I mentioned that all of the news companies have the proof that Obama is a member of The New Party - a branch of the Democratic Socialists of America. I was going to say that they won't let anyone know that truth. We can make our choices for whatever reason we think best, but when someone needs to deceive us, evil is at work and we need to watch out.

Before I could finish, though, a lady jumped up waving her arms and shouting that we shouldn't talk about this in church. Church is for how we're supposed to become better people. Then she and her husband stormed out.

Later, someone commented that the devil can work wherever he wants to, and if we refuse to consider his role in any area of our life, we give him free rein there. Another added, "I think it was clear that the devil was right here in Bible study - and didn't like being recognized."

25 You don't understand. Obama has moved from 'nuance' to 'newspeak'. Get used to it. Criticism or questioning will shortly be banned as 'hateful' and 'racist'. All, of course, in an effort to 'level the playing field in the name of fairness".

Oh, and you folks with guns, turn 'em in. This being for 'public safety'.

26

Well, that's a start. But I'm afraid he's going to spread it around more directly -- by taking money away from people who pay taxes to directly give it to those who don't pay taxes in the form of a "tax cut."

Well on the plus side he is cutting out the leftist organization middlemen. So at least the redistribution will be more efficient.

27 Eh.  Joke's on Obama.  I'm quitting my job at the end of the year (assuming he's elected, anyway).  Working's for chumps.

28

Obama's not even hiding his redistrubutionist desires.  Visiting his campaign website, one learns that under his plan a single parent making $40,000 will get a welfare check (its called a "Make Work Pay" payment, a "universal mortgage credit," and a "child care credit expansion"), in the amount of $2100.  Everyone making over $250,000 will be forced to pay for it.

29 why didn't obama just say no tax hikes on anyone making under $250k like the ads he's running claim? it's a lie, but he says it in the ad, so why didn't he just lie to this guy's face?

30 Working's for chumps.

Amen to that brother!
I'm approaching my 1500 days boss free mark!   Woot!

K

31 Who was it said that when the electorate can vote itself largess from the treasury, it will?  Will Rogers?  Twain?

32 My brother and his wife are worried, too. He works for Lockheed and we all know how Obama feels about military spending.

GOTV People!!

33 I think we can redistribute wealth from those who don't need it and don't deserve it to those who do.

Tax the lawyers.  That's right.  Double-tax legal fees.  In fact, double-tax anyone who has a law degree.  Charge huge extra taxes to belong to the bar.

These people have received windfall profits off of hardworking Americans for too long.  The only reason they are rich is that we have set up a system allowing them to be rich.  It's time we cut off the spigot.  Tax the lawyers!

(Think Obama will go for it?)

34 Those who pay little or no taxes will be receiving a nice big welfare check from those who already pay the most in taxes.  If Obama wins, I hope we are able to survive until the first mid-terms.

35 So what country are we all moving to?  I hear New Zealand's nice.

36

Re #33 LOL. Somebody once said the way to end abortion is to make it criminal to do it for profit.

Every time somebody brings up windfall profits I think we need to get Congress to tax lawyers and the media whenever they get above a - what is it? 8% profit rate? Is that what "big oil" makes?

Methinks lawyers and media think they will be exempt from communism if Obama gets in. They have more reason to be scared than any of us. But then, they're useful idiots so maybe he'd string them along for a while.

37

To AmishDude @33:

You're joking, right?

38 It really is depressing that most Americans don't recognize socialism when it is staring them in the face.  I am already planning ways to reduce my taxable income to escape Obama's tax increases.  For instance, if my wife's salary puts us into the next tax bracket, then she's ready to stay home.  Multiply that kind of thinking by a factor of millions, and what do you think is going to happen to tax revenue?  Yes, that's right.  As Republicans, we know the answer, but the Dems are either blinded by their own class warfare schtick or they know full well but don't care.

39 NZ = moonbat heaven

40 It really is depressing that most Americans don't recognize socialism when it is staring them in the face.

Oh they recognize it, and want more.  History means nothing to them, as long as they get something for nothing.  The sad thing is that 20 years ago Obama would have been laughed off stage.  Look how far we have come!

K

41 And according to the WSJ, this creative new form of welfare will cost the Treasury (ie future taxpayers) squillions more than existing welfare does.

42 If obama is elected President, I am going to stock up on KY Jelly. God knows we'll need it.

43 So how much in taxes is George Soro's gonna pay?

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

44 K:

True, for at least the half of the population comfortable sucking at the public tit (that would be the Dems natural constituency).  I remember watching the last "debate" and being most depressed by the fact that virtually all of the questioners asked some variation on "What are you going to do for me?"  Very sad the state to which so much of the populace has sunk.  But that is what you get when you insulate people from the consequences of their choices, which has been core of the liberal project for at least the last 35 years.

45 #35:  We can always follow Sarah Palin back to Alaska.  Pipeline jobs starting up, beautiful country, and I've heard there's a movement for independence.

46

The Democraps figured out long ago that according to the numbers, they can piss off anyone who makes above $250K and still get elected.  This figure isn't based on any economic analysis or "fairness" at all.  It is based on votes and nothing else.

Gore, Kerry and Obamuh all threw out the same $250K number.  "We'll tax the crap out of these guys because they can vote Republican and it won't really hurt us."  What is really sad is the shear number of leaches in this country who think this is a good idea.  How embarassing is it that in America you can make $40K a year and still be on welfare?

Didn't we just prove that taxes hurt the economy.  If taxes were lower, we would've never needed a fucking tax rebate check that both parties voted for.

47 There are only ~4.3 million people in NZ.   A few hundred thousand rich Yanks ought to be enough to swing it.

Australia, then?  They were sensible enough to elect Howard. 

True story: I have a wealthy acquaintance (self-made) and he's starting to move his assets off-shore to escape this socialist prick.

Here's hoping gerrymandering and fraud don't block the Republican takeover of the House in two years.

48 Impeach Obamattila

49

To AmishDude @33:

You're joking, right?

Nope.  If we had a British system, law would not be lucrative.  Lawyers profit on the system we the electorate have given them.  In fact, the major problem with American society today is that law is rewarded and science is punished.

Pick your favorite university, go to the math or computer science or physics department website.  If they list it, look at how many of them got an undergrad degree in the US.  Look particularly at those who got their undergrad degree after, say, 1985.

I am all for the free market.  It's just that our judicial system has nothing to do with the free market, it's set up by the law.  Besides, if we're in the middle of class welfare, let's get on offense.  Read my lips, no more John Edwards!

50 Ever listen to a couple of libs talk economics?  It sounds like a couple of gay men extolling the wonders of the female anatomy...very, very scary

51 The look on that guy's face is priceless.  It's "crosstalk" like this that makes me kind of confident in a McCain win.  Contrary to what some believe, most Americans don't buy into redistributing wealth.  Hopefully Obama is confident enough in victory to stop lying about his Marxism.  What was left out of that "crosstalk."  "I know you're busy.  Got a lot of plumbing to do.  But you might want to check out this book.  It's a little book.  It's all about class struggles."

52 one learns that under his plan a single parent making $40,000 will get a welfare check (its called a "Make Work Pay" payment, a "universal mortgage credit," and a "child care credit expansion"), in the amount of $2100.  Everyone making over $250,000 will be forced to pay for it.

If ONLY! I made $27,000 last year and paid $5100 in federal income and FICA taxes. Because I'm fucking RESPONSIBLE, I don't have any kids or own a home, I rent. This means I get JACK FUCKING SHIT back of my own money at the end of the year. I got a paltry $900 back last time.

Meanwhile, one of my stupid bitch co-workers who has four kids and an employed husband brags all the time about all the goodies I'm paying for, like Hoosier Healthwise for her brats and her huge tax "credits", AKA more money than that bitch even PAID in taxes coming to her at tax refund time.

McCain needs to run with this hard fucking core, be more relentless on this stuff than the Ayers stuff.

53 Ireland is the place to go.

54 I love these emails I keep getting from Moron.org!!

Dear MoveOn member,

To create the bold, progressive change America needs, a narrow victory isn't enough.

We need a landslide.

The polls are shifting our way. And even though we can't take anything for granted, it's worth all of us asking ourselves: if we really do have a shot at a once-in-a-generation, history-changing election, how hard are we willing to work?

Here's one thing you can do right now to help produce a landslide: grab your phone, click this link, and spend a few minutes calling MoveOn members in swing states and asking them to volunteer:

These calls are quick and easy to make, even if you've never called before. We've heard from MoveOn members in swing states that these calls are often all it takes to get them out to Obama offices to volunteer. In just a few minutes, you can generate hours and hours of vote-winning volunteer energy, right where it counts.

Remember Howard Dean's 50-state strategy? Remember Obama's speech in 2004, declaring that there are no red states and blue states? This could be the year that we redraw the political map. That we turn Colorado, North Carolina, Indiana, Ohio, and Florida blue. This economic crisis is reminding us that we're all in this together—and if we rise to the moment, we could create the kind of political tidal wave that makes real, deep change possible.

And here's something else worth keeping in mind: you can't steal a landslide.

So let's keep pushing. Click here to start making calls:

55 If Obama is going to confiscate my income I'm going to work less. Vacation-life here I come!

56 "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

      -- Alexander Fraser Tytler

57 Ireland is the place to go.

The problem with Ireland is its full of Irish. 

58 If ONLY! I made $27,000 last year and paid $5100 in federal income and FICA taxes. Because I'm fucking RESPONSIBLE, I don't have any kids or own a home, I rent. This means I get JACK FUCKING SHIT back of my own money at the end of the year. I got a paltry $900 back last time.

Meanwhile, one of my stupid bitch co-workers who has four kids and an employed husband brags all the time about all the goodies I'm paying for, like Hoosier Healthwise for her brats and her huge tax "credits", AKA more money than that bitch even PAID in taxes coming to her at tax refund time.

You sound hot.  Wanna make some deductions?

59

Capitalists can go on strike too. The One has set the benchmark for the law of diminishing returns: $250K. If we get stuck with this guy, look for the golfing, fishing and hunting to increase exponentially. Those who have made money already will now send it overseas where it can be productive.

The fatal conceit of redistributionist policies is that incentives don't matter because greed trumps all.

60 AmishDude:

Your comments regarding lawyers are stereotypical.  Trial lawyers indeed need to be curbed, at least with respect to certain kinds of litigation, but there are a lot of lawyers out there that never set foot in a courtroom and do a great deal to advise businesses - helping them raise money, avoid liability, navigate the Byzantine maze of regulations so many are subject to, negotiate contracts important to their businesses and otherwise imparting knowledge and judgment gained through experience with a variety of clients in a variety of industries facing a variety of issues.  I am one of those business lawyers, and I take great pride in helping businesses get off the ground and succeed.  I don't hold a candle to the entrepreneur, but at least I can do my best to help him or her - I'm good at it and I deserve to be paid for it, just as much as any consultant, employee or CEO deserves to be compensated for the services they render and the success they achieve.

61

General:

All lawyers are S.O.B's until you need one.

62 Teleprompter Messiah:

Just so, at least with respect to my colleagues who practice litigation.  Interestingly, people tend to like their business lawyers, at least so long as they feel they are getting good value from them.  I am realistic about the fact that even business lawyers are overhead, but the least you can do is to try to add value through the quality of your advice, the timeliness of your service and the efficiency of your billings.

63 That guy looked like he was trying hard not to punch The One in his Mouth.  I wonder what he said to that Socialist bullshit?....they cut the vid off too fast.

64

#33:

If you're talking about windfall profits taxes, perhaps we should suggest one on people who write books that make a lot of money.  It's not fair if someone puts a lot of effort into writing a book and it bombs....so, someone who has written, oh, I don't know, a lame autobiography, and it makes a lot of money....well, let's just say I don't see Michelle being all too hip about giving up a piece of HER pie.

65
You sound hot.  Wanna make some deductions?

I'm almost to that point. Why not lie back and think of england, become a brood mare and live high on the welfare hog. I'd probably make more cash and prizes than I do now working like a SUCKER.

66

AmishDude:

Your reasoning mirrors that of the socialist Obama's:  Pick out a segment of the free market, one that is traditionally unpopular (hey, you can get away with it if the segment you choose is unpopular enough) with the masses, and impose a special tax on that segment - one that no other segment is burdened with.  Take what they have earned through private contractual arrangments, entered into with willing clients that have, due to the high number of lawyers per capita, an extremely competitive environment in which to make a choice.  There is little difference between what you have proposed and Obama singling out families who make more than $250,000 per year - the "rich" who "unfairly" are not paying their "fair share."

From your comments, it is apparent that you know little or nothing about the legal system in this country.  Your mention of the "British Rule" leads me to believe that you have a major hang-up with plaintiff's lawyers and personal injury litigation.  It's not a perfect system.  But it's not the entire system.

But I get sick and tired of people generalizing what lawyers do and how much they make (yes, I'm an evil lawyer, but not a plaintiff's lawyer).  Believe me, it varies on both counts quite a bit.  And it pisses me off to no end that you can sit there and tell me that after putting in 80 hours a week, working weekends, missing kids games, and helping out clients who need me, that I am not entitled to "profit" from my labor.  And in fact should be "double taxed" by virtue of the profession I serve. 

You can take your populist pap and shove it up your Amish ass.

67

nightwitch,

If you feel like a sucker now, read this from a speech back in June.  He was doing some awesome pandering to a group of women in NM.

The gist is, if you don't have  bunch of kids you can't afford, well, you can just suck it.  He promised "hard-working" moms a whole bunch of goodies throughout the entire year, not just at tax time.  I'm a hard-working non-mom, so I'm screwed, I guess.

68 Maybe all these small businesses need to make sure that the employees the lay off to pay for their tax increases are Obama supporters.

69 #53 -- Good call -- land of (some of) my ancestors and low tax rates.

#57 -- With EU immigration laws, it'll be full of Poles soon enough.

70

General:

I am also a business lawyer. I concur. Our profession is an easy target.

71

72 How does the plumber respond? Anyone seen a clip that contains his response?

73 Teleprompter Messiah:

Indeed it is an easy target - we're tarred with the same brush of the worst of our profession (and there are a lot of bad/unethical lawyers out there).  People think the whole profession is either chasing ambulances or "LA Law" (I know, I'm dating myself), not realizing that there are so many other useful and productive disciplines in the law.

angler:

Well said, and thank you.

74

#45

alaska is a good choice...plus it's too cold for zombies to survive.

 

 

75 Pick out a segment of the free market

Not the free market, a contrived market.  It is a "market" created by lawyers for lawyers.  Tweak the law a little and it changes entirely.  I agree that lawyers should be paid.  Same as accountants, roughly-speaking.  Maybe a little less, like civil servants.  Better yet, if you want to be a member of the bar, you have to accept a maximum salary.  "A member of the bar."  It's not a free market, it is very tightly controlled.

And when I talk about windfall profits, I'm not talking about just John Edwards, but what about overpaid law school profs?  They, of course, get overpaid because of the John Edwardses of the world driving up the cost of hiring a lawyer.  And there's no quality control.  Somebody, call him Joe Obama, can graduate in three years with no dissertation having done nothing challenging, like mathematics, and having no competition from non-native English speakers.  And he gets hired right away to be a professor.  How the hell does that happen?  It happens in no other field.

helping them raise money, avoid liability, navigate the Byzantine maze of regulations so many are subject to

Essentially, protection money.

due to the high number of lawyers per capita

Not high enough.  If there were, then salaries would be low.  That's some of that complicated Econ 101 you guys skipped out on while taking X Studies, or whatever pre-law consists of.

after putting in 80 hours a week, working weekends, missing kids games,

...posting on blogs...

You know what's been really honking me off, though?  "Smart lawyers."  All of these self-styled intellectuals who think that because they went through a graduate program with (if I can repeat myself) a three-year limit, no dissertation, no mathematics, a low failure rate and no competition from international students, they are some sort of brilliant ubermensches.  Law school is easy.  Swap Harvard Law for the native English speakers at UMass' grad program in Computer Engineering, just to pick one at random, and see how each group does in the other's program.  Comp Sci would be bored with Con Law and the law school students would be jumping out of windows.

Of course, that's assuming you can find any native English speakers studying Computer Engineering.

The second point, which you haven't, is that Obama and his minions are all for the "free market" when it comes to billable hours or getting $300,000/year make-work jobs at a Chicago hospital, but never when it comes to honest work like plumbing.

76 Obama assures voters that nobody making under 250K will have a tax increase, and 95% of tax payers will get a tax cut. While these words pass his lips, he knows full well that the Bush tax cuts will expire and everyones taxes will go up.

How come nobody (including McCain) is pouncing on that?

77

navigate the Byzantine maze of regulations so many are subject to

One problem: lawyers CREATE the Byzantine maze of regulations and subject people to them.

78

Oh, and Amish speaks the truth WRT CompSci vs. Law. I dare any of you Law guys to sit through one of the mind-numbing (but mind-expanding!) lectures from my Data Structures professor. His diversions in class were commentaries on the side-effects of the IEEE floating point standard.

I wrote a maze solver program for that class while I was strung out on Nyquil. Good times...

79 "But I'm afraid he's going to spread it around more directly -- by taking money away from people who pay taxes to directly give it to those who don't pay taxes in the form of a "tax cut.""

No. no. no. That is not the plan.

This is the plan: Taking money away from people who pay taxes to directly give it to those who don't pay taxes IN EXCHANGE FOR VOTES!

Just like what was done in Canada....

80

Looks like AmishDude smoked out all the Lawyer scum.

Surprised that Gaylor did not chime in.

Dont go soft on them AmishDude, we do need to go to the british system.

If you lose, you pay.

Lawyers are, parsites, as to needs a lawyer, thats because another one has its sucker into you.

Teachers, Scientists, plumbers need to make more then them, class action suits are nothing but huge shakedowns.

Lawyers are WHY we have the current predicament regarding Obamama.

81 While I appreciate the need for lawyering, I might have to agree with Amish dude. Is it wise to defend yourself in court? No, probably not, why not? Because we have  a legal system that the everyman cannot defend themselves against, and for that matter, if laws are too complex to defend oneself against, how can the everyman be expected to know and follow those rules?
Yes, the legal system, like the tax system, are both complex entities that have been set up by the very people that they aim to create jobs for, and have been thrust on an unwilling populace. I can choose to invite a plumber in my house to do some work in exchange for money. I have have less choice over whether or not to hire an accountant or a lawyer because  more often than not I need to, usually for a task that is totally unrelated to those professions (i.e. starting a business) because that is an industry that is infesting every aspect of life and business.

82 First - No one here said lawyers were smarter than anyone else, so spare me the comparisons to your rocket science classes.

Second - Yes, lawyers (mostly Democrat, career civil servant-type lawyers) do dream up the Byzantine regulations.  Believe me, I'd be just as happy if all I had to do was help clients understand the common law of contracts and corporations.

Third - I would be more than happy to open the profession to anyone who wanted to practice, whether or not they passed the bar exam, which is a stupid hazing ritual having nothing to do with one's ability or fitness to practice law, and whether or not they attended law school.

Lawyers are not why we have the current predicament regarding Obama - lawyers are a symptom, not a cause.  If you want a cause, look to academia and journalism, such as they are these days.

83 No one here said lawyers were smarter than anyone else,

No?  Brooks, Chris Buckley and all the Obama worshipers are constantly telling us that he's brilliant because he graduated high in his class from Harvard Law.  Joe Biden said his IQ was high specifically because of his law degree. 

rocket science classes.

Rocket science is wussy.  The real world is a crutch for the unimaginative. 

Believe me, I'd be just as happy if all I had to do was help clients understand the common law of contracts and corporations.

Hell, if it's just understanding corporations, we only need Underpants Gnomes.

I would be more than happy to open the profession to anyone who wanted to practice, whether or not they passed the bar exam, which is a stupid hazing ritual having nothing to do with one's ability or fitness to practice law,

But you see the problem then.  But if those hurdles weren't there, you wouldn't have an unnecessary year (or two) on your education and you wouldn't have the kind of salaries you have.  Like any other licensing procedure or a union, it's designed to keep others out of the market.  (That pesky econ again.)

Lawyers are not why we have the current predicament regarding Obama -

Law school created Obama.  Without Harvard Law, he wouldn't have made it to UChicago Law, wouldn't have used that to get to the legislature (and challenge ballot signatures, a total lawyer move) and to the Senate.  He is the prototypical product of legal academia.

If you want a cause, look to academia and journalism, such as they are these days.

Can't deny it.  Law schools do not help at all as they are some of the worst of the crowd that thinks having a book open or writing an essay in one's native language is some sort of intellectual achievement.

Look, General, don't take this the wrong way.  I'm not saying what you do is useless, I'm saying what you do is easy.

84 Obama is only interested as are all leftist in spreading the money of those that don't vote for leftists.  Obama and his trolls are very aware that the bulk of the tax increase will not affect the core of the democrat voter base.  He is generous because he is enriching his voters with the oppositions hard earned earnings and savings. His mindless infantile followers are so hateful because they are afraid;  They are afraid they may not  get their "stuff" from that  never ending  pile of other people money. The typical dems get ugly and angry and as we are supposed to notice they may get violent.....so roll over conservatives and hand your loot over to your nearest leftist neighbor.....or they may hurt you or have obamas storm troopers in training....acorn, just take it starting in Januaray.....

85

Amishdude:

If you are really Amish: Leck mir im Arsch.

Don't get upset at the profession, throw your anger at politicians.

The British have a great saying: So long as Parliament is in session, no man's liberty or property is safe.

86 As with all marxis they want to sprea around the wealthy and appeal to the workers

87 jana,

My husband thanks you for that link as it caused me to jump in his lap a coo, "Fill me up with babies, go for twins!"

88 If you are really Amish

No, but I play one on TV.

Which is a sin.

Don't get upset at the profession, throw your anger at politicians.

And what profession do most of them come from...?

89 AmishDude clearly has it in for lawyers.

Yes, I understand barriers to entry and the fact that law school and the bar exam result in higher salaries for those who pass those hurdles.  I think I expressed my personal willingness to drop them.  Competition makes the world go 'round, and I'll stack myself up against you or anyone else who wants to try practicing in my area of the law.

And define "easy".  Teleprompter Messiah, it seems, works 80 hours a week (I, thankfully, don't do that anymore). 

90 BTW, just to temper Amish a bit, I appreciate that there are good lawyers and I'm sure that General Stark is one. I think most people are frustrated with the fact that, in addition to insane litigation, the legal profession creates the laws and denies that there's anything wrong with that legislation and that everybody who didn't go to Harvard Law is obviously just too stupid to criticize or participate in the process of law making.

91 Lot of ignorance and generalizations about the legal profession here. Yes, it has its flaws like every other profession. But after you are done with the legal profession, then what? Socialize medicine? Nationalize industry?

92

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Two problems here... first of all, it's Barnard's Star.  Second of all, you'll nevah catch that puppy!  For obvious reasons, it's hauling ass outta this neck of the woods, too.

93 I dare any of you Law guys to sit through one of the mind-numbing (but mind-expanding!) lectures from my Data Structures professor. His diversions in class were commentaries on the side-effects of the IEEE floating point standard.

Been there done that. Computer programming should be mandatory starting at age 8. Maybe get some "Minds full of mush" thinking pass video games.

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nightwitch:

tell your husband he's very welcome --  I'm glad to hear that pandering speech made SOMEBODY happy, because it made me irritated for days!

95 Teleprompter Messiah, it seems, works 80 hours a week (I, thankfully, don't do that anymore).

Big deal.  Any idiot can work 80 hours a week.  Putting in time isn't the issue, "easy" means that the barriers to success are low, and here I'm talking intellectual barriers.  It is intellectually easy.  The law has no metaphysical truth.  It's whatever you can argue at the moment.  Failure is expected and rewarded.  Try being a mathematician who cannot prove a theorem.  For some professions, failure is like a Sword of Damocles.  For lawyers, it's just more billable hours.  In fact, the more hopeless the case, the more likely you can make money off of it because nobody will expect success.

then what? Socialize medicine? Nationalize industry?

Ah, but the law is socialized.  It is constructed by the government.  The free market does not apply to law.  You remind me of people who think that MLB shouldn't have salary caps and should be a "free market".  They give exclusivity contracts, that's what kept a team out of DC for so long.  They set all of the rules, otherwise there would be about 7 teams in the New York area.

The law distorts the market for the demand for legal services.

96

Amish, I don't think you are as smart as you think you are.

First, you fail to see that you are feeding the exact same type of sentiment that makes Obama's redistributionist, populist, class-warfare ideas possible.  It re-affirms the liberal tendancy to look at the wide range of occupations and professions that make up the free market, and then make value judgments as to which are "more important" or "easy" or, stunningly in your example, should have "maximum salaries."  You ignore the free market and empower the government to decide who should get paid what in the private sector. That is pure socialism, and not something I would have expected to see on a conservative blog.

Second, you may be an intellectual giant, and my superior in that regard, but to say that the practice of law is easy betrays your ignorance.  If you're talking about fixing parking tickets, you may have a point.  But as has been pointed out, nothing prohibits a private citizen from representing himself, or a corporation to act on its behalf.  If practicing law was so easy, everybody would be representing themselves.  Why "overpay" a lawyer when you can do it yourself?

97 As a lawyer, soldier, and prosecutor, I find this thread enlightening, and stupid.  Some lawyers make big money on PI cases.  They generally take big risks to fight the "man" - insurance companies.  They help people who need it.  Some are scum.  Some are heroes.  Lumping people in groups is the height of ignorance.

Many lawyers add value to our society.  Some don't.  The law is not easy, nor clean.  If you think so, try telling a 9 year old who was molested, that the jury did not think her "no physical evidence case" was enough to convict the guy who fingered her.  Some days are good and some bad, but you never forget when you see the pain and torment.  Even whey you send a serious sick bastard away forever, you don't :"win".  How can you un-fuck a 6 year old from what her daddy did to her?

98

Amishdude:

I'll take your side-effects of the IEEE floating point standard and raise you the rule against perpetuities and the applicability of the rule in Shelley's case. I may not write code for a living but what I do ain't easy.

My main point is that if you don't want a complex legal system, quit making government bigger. Quit enacting crazy laws and regulations. It's not a fair point in a representative democracy to say "well lawyers are in the legislature, they are the ones mucking up our lives" when the voters put them there.

I do not claim that my profession has any monopoly on intellect and wisdom. I agree with Bill Buckley's nostrum, I'd rather be governed by the first 200 folks listed in the phone book than the faculty of Harvard.

I make my living serving the business community. Spreading the wealth around means that my clients will spread it around other countries where they can make and keep more.

99

Let's forget the labels such as 'socialism' and 'marxism' for a minute.

Who, with any friggin pride or self-esteem, and on what alien planet, does one equate extra money in their account to success when the only thing that money symbolizes is the fact that you couldn't succeed in obtaining it on your own?!

I know...run-on sentence.

Still. Seriously. My grandparents were dirt poor and lived in a rural area. Even while fighting lung-cancer, my grandfather welded junk bikes and manufactured wagons and carts in his garage, he collected scrap metal, he picked up glass bottles, and did pretty much any damned thing he could to keep from taking one red cent from someone else. All this while doing all that he could to help anyone else who needed assistance.

I'm dead serious when I say that I would endorse the check and then mail it to Steve Forbes the next day. Simply refusing to cash the damned thing would mean the government would keep it in their grubby little paws. I'd rather the guy who paid it get it back.

Of course, then he'd have to pay taxes on it again.

 

 

100 If anyone's interested in the plumber's reaction, he did a telephone interview with Neil Cavuto today  (hint -- he's not impressed)  Here's the video

101   Why has no one ever done a comparison with Obama's notorious democratic forefathers?  The democrats have tried to paint McCain with the Bush brush, adhering to the democrat cultivated philosophy of "sound bites over substance and truth."  Without delving into the falsehoods that the democrat talking heads perpetrate at a cyclical rate, the Republicans need to pull out Obama's political family.  Truth is better then fiction if only we take the time to read our history books.  The best sound bite to accompany such a campaign is a simple truth: "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.    THE FACTS:   Obama Tax and Social Welfare Position:  "I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." (Sen. Barrack Obama, Ohio, 14 Oct 200   Huey Pierce Long, Jr. (August 30, 1893 – September 10, 1935), nicknamed The Kingfish Long created the Share Our Wealth program in 1934, with the motto "Every Man a King," proposing new wealth redistribution measures in the form of a net asset tax on large corporations and individuals of great wealth to curb the poverty and crime resulting from the Great Depression. Charismatic and immensely popular for his social reform programs and willingness to take forceful action, Long was accused by his opponents of dictatorial tendencies for his near-total control of the state government.   "Share Our Wealth" In February, 1934, Senator Huey Long announced during a nationwide radio address that he was forming the Share Our Wealth Society, dedicated to the redistribution of the nation's wealth.   Major provisions:   The key planks of the Share Our Wealth platform included: 1.  No person would be allowed to accumulate a personal net worth of more than 100 to 300 times the average family fortune, which would limit personal assets to between $1.5 million and $5 million. (Obama already exceeds these limits, his new tax program would prevent others who engage in hard work to achieve it through taxable earnings.) 2.  Income taxes would be levied to ensure this. Annual capital levy taxes would be assessed on all persons with a net worth exceeding $1 million.  (Obama's tax plan begins attacking earners at only $200,000.) 3.  Every family was to be furnished with a homestead allowance of not less than one-third the average family wealth of the country. Every family was to be guaranteed an annual family income of at least $2,000 to $2,500, or not less than one-third of the average annual family income in the United States. Yearly income, however, cannot exceed more than 100 to 300 times the size of the average family income. 4.  An old-age pension would be made available for all persons over 60. 5.  To balance agricultural production, the government will preserve/store surplus. This is made so no food is wasted. 6.  Veterans are paid what they are owed 7.  Education and training for all children to be equal in opportunity in all schools, colleges, universities, and other institutions for training in the professions and vocations of life. 8.  The raising of revenue and taxes for the support of this program was to come from the reduction of swollen fortunes from the top, as well as for the support of public works to give employment whenever there may be any slackening necessary in private enterprise.  (Obama too wants to spread the wealth!)     Radical Support: Interestingly enough Long was supported in this agenda by a "radical Catholic priest" Father Charles Edward Coughlin (October 25, 1891 – October 27, 1979).  Much like Michael Louis Pfleger  who's word s and support brought questions and concerns of racism and extreme religious and social views.  Fr. Coughlin made several anti-Semitic comments not unlike those of other Christian ministers who have also support Obama or for whom Obama has expressed past admiration such as Jeremiah Wright, Joseph Lowery, Jesse Jackson, Cornel West, Louis Farrakhan and Malcolm X.   There is so much more that can be delved into with comparisons of Obama's political history and tactics with those of the Chicago Daley Machine.  Why should we be surprised at claims of voter fraud again the Obama campaign and its supporters; it is an embedded part of Chicago politics.  Have we forgotten, Obama won his first election not because he was the best candidate, but because he had the incumbent removed on a technicality.     McCain can not do it all alone, he needs to get tougher and hold the "jello man" to the wall, but he can't get ugly, that is the party's job.  Where are the Chicago Republicans who know Obama the "hack" all too well?  Where are the New York and Massachusetts Republicans to challenge the record and reputation of "Barry Obama" the student at Columbia and Harvard?  Where are the other Senate Republican's who can hold Obama accountable for his misquotes and misrepresentations of his comments and correspondence on and off the Senate floor?  The republican party (with the exception of those few who have appeared on Fox) has given John McCain the same support he got when going off to Vietnam: a slap on the back and "Johnny do us proud" and then scorn if he comes back with something less then victory.  We never learn, we still eat our own.  If Obama wins, we will get the presidency we deserve in this election year - "God help us all"!   Semper Fidelis,   William J. Collins, Jr. Major. U.S. Marine Corps (Ret)

102 "Tax cut for people who don't pay taxes?"  So, you're saying that people who earn up to $250K "don't pay taxes?"  I'm here to tell you that just ain't true.  I pay at least 30% of my earnings in federal taxes, another 10% in state sales taxes on average per year and at least another 7% in local taxes extorted from me when I travel around the country on my job.  So don't tell me I don't pay any taxes! 

As for the "spread the wealth around" comment by Obama, IF you were to listen to the video clip with an unbiased mind, you would understand that these four words have been taken completely out of context.  Although he probably used a poor choice of words, Obama was describing to Joe the Plumber that his ideas are to spread the same opportunity that Joe the Plumber seeks around to other Americans.  Spread Opportunity, not wealth.  Listen to it again.

103 you're all idiots. this site is stupid there's NOTHING radical about any of Obama's plans. you all are republican idiots. go back to where you all hatched. the country would be better without you.

104 Those of you who call Obama a Socialist or a Marxist know absolutely nothing about either Socialist or Marxist ideology. Before you embarrass yourself by showing your ignorance, you would do well to study both ideologies. My guess is, once you do, you still will not embrace either ideology--and for good reason--but you at least will know what the ideologies are and, perhaps, then will use the terms appropriately rather than as a label in an effort to engage in character assassination. Whatever Obama may or may not be, he is NOT a Socialist and he is not a Marxist.

A comment on Ken Whitfield's rant on all the taxes he CLAIMS to pay, the highest sales tax rate in the nation--combing state and local sales tax--is Tennessee at 9.4%. Thus Mr. Whitfield does NOT pay state sales taxes of 10%. Further, given local taxes throughout the nation, it is extremely doubtful he pays 7% of his income in local taxes. The only way that would be possible would be if he were a large property owner with a relatively low income given property taxes seldom take more than 2% of a person's income and no state has a local sales tax above 4%. If he is not telling the truth on that, why should anyone pay any attention to anything he says?

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