1

To paraphrase a Tory from 1987: Look, we know Democrats will eventually win a Presidential election.  we are just trying to hold on until they become responsible.

An Obama win just rewards eight years of lunacy from the far left fringe and seals the ascendency of the Howard Dean moonbat wing within the Democrat Party.

I think that's where Ace is at with the McCain thing.  I know it is where I am.

 

2 Welcome, ladies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3 I had to google PUMA. I'm not up on all these acronyms.

4 The saddest post yet of this election season.

5 Is Ace trying to get a date?

6

Ace is losing his mind.

And I'm in agreement with Seattle Slough....

7 PUMAs are cool.  Cougars are better.

8 You might put out the "We're all morons here" disclaimer a little. Pointing out that we're uncouth - and deliberately so. Essentially irreligious, et cetera.

9

Ace,

check out this scene from Sopranos where they did the exact same scam Obama/ACORN/Rezko did in Chicago.  In the episode, made in 2002, with a "community organizer".  I think this episode got one group busted somewhere after authoritites watched and realized what was going on

 

scene from that episode explaining the HUD Scam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfcgwxPH7Rc

comment section:

This is the EXACT scam that Obama ran with Rezko in Chicago!!!

Unfrikinbelievable!

10 Without this kind of thinking, we would not have won the race to develop the bomb that ended WWII.  WTF is wrong with asking the defectors to share their insights?

11 Talk about "politics makes strange bedfellows". 



Abandon bunk!!!!

12

I was reading at Pat Dollard's site earlier (I sent this to your tips line as well) and it looks like the PUMA's are still after Obama on their own:

http://tinyurl.com/3ted55

It would be interesting to know what McCain/Palin can do to move the PUMA's firmly on our side though, if for nothing else to allow Hillary to have a clear shot in four years.  It could just be that they want to do it on their own, but I don't see how if he is already in office.  Has a sitting president even been unseated by someone from their own party in their re-election bid?

 

Like you said, this seems a perfect time for us all to come together to prevent this mess before it gets started.

13

Ace,

you may want to contact the bloggers at PUMA PAC

http://blog.pumapac.org/

14 Are you guys insane?  There is a contingent of Democrats -- tiny, yes, but still  around 1-2% of the electorate -- which is as rabidly anti-Obama as we are.  These are DEMOCRATS fighting for the election of McCAIN/PALIN, for the love of God.

Surveys suggest there are 8% more like them -- which we're not getting.

They have a much better idea how to persuade their similarly minded Democrats than we do.


Are you FOOLS? 

We have PUMAs posting here now, digging the site.  Why on earth would you even question this?  I've been trying to figure out how to get a Dem-Rep anti-Obama blog axis going now for months.  Talked to someone about it (but, as uusal, failed to follow up, even after he or she was helpful).

Seattle, you're out to lunch, but Entropy, you're... insane.

15 'Party Unity My Ass'.......welcome disaffected Democrats, one and all!  I am a conservative woman, but I know a number of 'normal' Democrats who do not like the direction their party is headed.  I've been told by several of these acquaintances that, while they will never admit it outloud, they will 'pull the lever' for McCain. 

16
Hey, this is politics, baby.  People do koo-koo shit.  I can't believe I was actually symptathetic to Hillary and actually rooting for her at the end of the primaries, and not merely because I considered her a weaker candidate.  Just because obama was such a fucking dickbag.

17

I'm not a PUMA (Party Unity My Ass!!) but I respect them greatly and read several PUMA blogs.

They're pissed off at the direction of the Democratic party and pissed that the DNC stole the nomination from Hillary.  Their view is COUNTRY FIRST.  PUMAs detest Obama and everything he stands for.  They love Sarah Palin and appreciate the fact that McCain listened to them and chose a woman as his VP.

You don't need to move PUMAs to our side, they're already there.  In fact, there are several groups starting to campaign for McCain this weekend. 

Of course, if any of this is off in some way, PUMAs feel free to correct me.

 

 

18 I expect Seattle to be batshit crazy, but yeah, what's wrong with finding out what common ground we share with the PUMAs? I disliked  hated the Clintons, but the fact was, the DLC types were far more centerist than the Obamatons. We will see a Democrat elected President again, but I'd rather it wasn't a guy who was so dedicated to a cult of personality (whatever you say about Kerry, he sure knew he wasn't gonna have that going for him...)

19

Again: Too much of a transparent pander? I mean, look, who are we kidding; This is not exactly a major point of Republican concern and there's no point claiming the GOP is strong like bull on equal-pay initiatives. But is there any juice here?

How about "we practice what we don't preach"...

As a matter of fact, I've never seen or heard of any Republican campaign or commenting against equal pay.  Ever.  It's almost as if the Dems use that issue... as pandering.

20 I think it's a fair and respectful question, guys. Yeah, it's kinda sad that, with Obama being the only other real option, we have to ask at all, but it's still a fair question. How can we help and/or persuade if we don't know what other people would like to see?

21

(I know this is for PUMAs but...)

Too much of a transparent pander? I mean, look, who are we kidding; This is not exactly a major point of Republican concern and there's no point claiming the GOP is strong like bull on equal-pay initiatives.

That's why in Palin's first speech, the refence to "18 million cracks in the glass ceiling" was cringe-worthy. Republicans have been arguing for years that there IS no glass ceiling. Coulda said the same thing without the Dem talking point.

22 Ace is right.  I know that a lot of people discredit NoQuarter because of the "whitey tape" but they actually have a lot of good info on there and I take a gander at their site at least once a day.

The PUMAs are the ones that are going after the Rezko connection hard and it seems to be paying off and they are the ones bringing all of the updates of Rezko singing (take a look at HotAir).

23 I will personally give it up for the PUMAs. We need you, we want you. PUMAs can become a powerful faction post-election, if they put us over the top. Obastard will merely show them the wheels of the bus, like he always has.

24 Ace is right on this. There are Democrats on the fence, which means Obama hasn't made the sale, but they're Democrats, so they're obviously not bothered by all the same things about Obama that we are. This is an honest request for information.

On the other hand, I think the equal pay story is a nice illustration of what might be Obama's main weaknesses among the PUMA crowd: he's a fake. Specific data points like the payscale could be an entry in to pointing out other instances where Obama talks one way but acts another. But I don't know, because I'm not a PUMA either.

25 I'm not in the Puma category myself, but I can speak about what an Obama skeptical voter moderate who would have voted for Hillary would want most of all.

Without writing some manifesto, it's hard to make this clear and persuasive and be fullsome at the same time.

But she needs to show her somewhat more extreme personal beliefs are checked by her libertarianism. IYKWIMAITYD.

26 12

I was reading at Pat Dollard's site earlier (I sent this to your tips line as well) and it looks like the PUMA's are still after Obama on their own:

http://tinyurl.com/3ted55

bumping this post/link, because it deserves a good look by anyone who cares (or needs a little morale booster)

27 So, people would rather lose the election to a socialist who has the enthusiastic support of a democratic Congress rather than ask for help from exceptionally disaffected democrats to improve the Republican's chance of winning?  What a bunch of arrogant, egotistical fucks.  Kiss my cock, you bastards.

28 Tushar, I just did that, thanks.

29 link

30 I check out NoQuarterUSA every so often.  They can't stand Obama.  At this point it's not even a Republican vs. Democrat thing.  Obama has so many shady associations, which almost all happen to be anti-American, it is now just an American thing.  Band together to fight this.  Then resume politics in a few months.

31

I'm not a PUMA but I am a female lurker so I'm going to answer you. I am in a minority of my family and friends in that I do not support Obama. (Can I say I'm a minority? I'm white, is that racist if I call myself a minority? I can't keep track anymore...)

 

What I think those of us that are opposed to Obama (and are shocked by his nefarious associates) are missing here is that the liberals in this election aren't horrified by the idea of a violent overthrow of government. They are coming off of 8 years of Bush hatred and they think Obama sounds pretty reasonable. They don't see the connection to their behavior being similar to the behavior of Germans when Hitler was coming into power. Instead, the liberals firmly believe that it is the conservatives who are fascist pigs and the Republican regime must be overthrown by any means necessary. To them Ayers isn't a terrorist, he is a Patriot.

 

I still think the Ayers connection is important to emphasize, but I also agree with people who say that the ACORN link to the faltering economy is one that must be played up as well. And, the emphasis on the illegal donations to the Obama campaign also needs to be put into play. Look, the McCain campaign should be able to multi-task, after all they expect to run the country.

 

I want to say thanks to AoSHQ for keeping me sane as I hunker down alone in my bunker while my friends and family praise The One and bombard me with e-mails about how horrible Sarah Palin is and how SHE MUST BE STOPPED!!! And apologies if there's double spaces between my paragraphs, I couldn't tell if the spacing was right and I didn't want anyone to think I was one of those crazy astroturfers.

32 PUMAs are not all women. Plenty of men in the group too.

I love them. They are American patriots.

Country First. Obama Last.

33

Check Geraghty

His "smart washington guy" from last cycle thinks an epic landslide is a comin'

Basically, he sees teh Gallup "Registered Voter" polling as more likely to be accurate this time around

And that shows a double digit Obamasama lead

34 This is not an insane request.  The vast majority of democrats are well-meaning, good-hearted people that love this country.  We have disagreements on how it should be run, but we can and should have those debates in a public and civil manner.  Obama and his endorsers flee from that in every way possible, running the whole gamut of criminal and uncivil behavior, starting with the Democratic party's own caucuses and continuing to the intentional frauds committed by ACORN.

I hated the idea of a Hillary presidency before I got to know Obama, nowadays I'd... well, I wouldn't welcome it, but it would be preferable.  Hillary was practical if nothing else, didn't want to hurt the country in any event, and she was her own person.  Hillary was Hillary, not the puppet of sinister and hidden figures, not forced on her party by powerful interests outside our nation.  I grew to really respect her as the primaries dragged on.  Not like her, but respect her.  I'd argue against her at every turn come January, but I would not fear for the country like I do now.

35 This is a case of  a "We can all argue about how to divide up Europe after we beat the fascists" sort of deal.

36

I am not a Puma, but i am a former lifetime dem turned republican.

the equal pay may not be a major concern for GOP. BUT, it is a way to slam obama and his claim of equal pay for women. It is quite telling actually.

Another example of McCain being a leader, a workhorse.

Obama is all hat no cattle.

37 Former Dem here, Clinton voter, highly educated, professor at an Ivy league institution (shout out to Laura Ingraham).

Also, former resident of Chicago, the Rotting Corpse of Corruption by the Lake. Knew about Obama and his goon squad from Day One.

I like this blog, and I've had a chance to give the benefit of the doubt to conservatives and especially their economic philosophy. I support smaller government and lower taxes, but I believe the gov't. can provide a safety net in times of crisis. Although I don't support the bailout, it's a Soros scheme if there ever was one.

Advice from me? Man up and support McCain, even if he fumbles. You never hear Obama supporters criticize their guy. The whining on here is over the top. How do you expect to convince anyone McCain is a better choice when you spend so much time tearing him down. It's counter productive.

Also, stop screaming "amnesty amnesty amnesty" anytime McCain is within ten feet of a brown, Hispanic looking person. You sound like racist fools. And I am 100% against illegal immigration and for more border security. PS, I'm Hispanic and a proud American.

Other than that, just keep doing what you're doing. Love the snark here, keep up the good work.

38 Barack Obama.  He used lies and dirty tricks to stop Hillary.  He's using lies and dirty tricks to stop McCain.  What makes you think he'll do any different to American if you put him in the White House?

39 If I were a PUMA I'd be thoroughly pissed at Obama and the Democrat party.  I'm still wondering how you win NY, CA, NJ, OH, MI, FL and TX and lose your party's primary.  Speaking of which, the Republicans need closed primaries in every State.

40 I'm not a Dem, I'm a moderate but joined PUMA and donated $$$ to the ladies when they were fighting the good fight at the DNC.

There is common ground out there, we just need to be respectful and listen to each other. 

There is sleeze out there on both sides, and we need to start talking about cleaning things up, holding people accountable (For the Republican Stevens or Duke Cunningham, the Dems have a Jefferson and a Kwame Kilpatrick), and getting across the message of personal responsibility.

The PUMAs are already on the ground in OH and PA; I am door knocking in CA.

When this is all over, I want to continue and talking with my PUMA friends, and maybe we can reach a conversation where can we can talk to each other with respect for each other's viewpoints, stop demonizing people or assuming ill will because of the letter after their name.

Common ground has to be reached via consensus on real transparency and accountability.

Some PUMAs that you may want to check out:

logisticsmonster.com
hire heels blog

41 Newsflash:  Ace is having trouble understanding how women think.  Details at eleven.

42 Well, that's your opinion, but you suck.  You and the communist professor above, too.

Just kidding, thanks for the input.

43 LMAO! Barak OSAMA on ballots:

”No question this is an honest mistake innocently done,” said Edward McDonough, the Democratic commissioner. ”We catch almost everything.”

”This was a typo,” said Republican Commissioner Larry Bugbee. ”We have three different staff members who proof these things and somehow the typo got by us.”

Officials say the flawed ballots were sent to approximately 300 voters. On row 1A Barack Obama’s name is spelled Barack Osama.

http://tinyurl.com/4hsl5q

44

I am not a PUMA, but I belong to one of their sites and read it pretty much daily.  They love Palin, respect McCain and pretty much seem ready to fight harder to prevent an Obama presidency than most conservatives I read (hello <em>Corner</em>.

Believe me, they have been yelling the "FIGHT! Go get him!" message since I have started reading them.  They email, call, blog etc.  They are pretty active and were active Hillary supporters.  They are very vocal about election rigging, and they feel Obama and ACORN stole Hillary's nomination through fraud. 

They seem to respect Fox News (especially Greta, who is probably a PUMA) and Hannity.  They think that O'Reilly is too soft on Obama.  They hate MSNBC. 

Some listen to Rush and can't believe that they are a) listening to him and b) agreeing with him.  Others still can't bring themselves to listen to him.

They are <em>very sensitive</em> about criticism of Hillary Clinton, whom they revere. 

Several big name Hillary people have come out in support of McCain (Greta's husband, for one). 

They hate the DNC, the "get over it, you lost" crowd, Donna Brazile, Bill Richardson (who they call Judas), Howard Dean, etc

Basically they know this is a marriage of convenience, and they expect us all to go our separate ways in 2012 (although they would love a Palin-Hillary contest).  They want to help, but want to be treated with respect.  Happily, many of them have gone to McCain-Palin offices and reported that they were warmly greeted.  They like to volunteer and wear their Hillary gear.

Keep in mind, they aren't a monolith, they aren't all voting for McCain, some are staying home, but a lot are crossing over.  My observations are pretty much a generalization, as they are diverse.

It is an interesting section of the electorate, and they are a deep file when it comes to Obama's dirty laundry.

45 I have friends who are PUMAS. They are fuming at the sexism displayed at Hillary and now with Palin. These women and a guy tell me that they like McCain's independent streak and his anti-torture stance, to my conservative chagrin.
But they also touted that McCain is experienced.
Now they are praising the $5000 health care plan of McCain's and the new housing plan, go figure.
At first, they were not too excited about Palin when McCain announced her as VP. But, they grew sympathetic to her because of the MSM treatment, how the MSM treated her daughter, and her decision to have her down-syndrome child.
They saw what Hillary went through with Palin.

Maybe McCain has to reiterated in simple terms, especially to blue collar workers, the laymen, what Obama's involvement with ACORN and the downfall of the economy as well as what he will do. He must also discuss why his plan is better and how Obama's is a failure. McCain needs to make clear and succint distinctions.

My PUMA friends absolutley hate Obama's connection with Ayers and Wright.

46 Do you all like roly poly middle aged guys that look like Ewoks ('sup Ace?), or just young, swimming pool cleaner kind of guys? Oh, wait. I'm mixing up cougars and PUMAs. My bad.

47

I'm curious how much the abortion issue and Supreme Court Justices drives reluctance to cross over for McCain. Is there any way to make the argument that despite his pro-life stance, McCain just isn't the kind of guy to go for red-meat conservative judges? We all know he was concerned about Alito, no matter what he says now. With a Democratic Congress, he wouldn't even try, and the guy HAS been all about bipartisanship and comity his whole career. Heck, he and Hillary appear to be good friends, much to our past consternation.

The conservatives love Palin's pro-life beliefs, but everything I can read about her life and career suggests she would be more about leading by example and support, not governing by fiat.

I am reminded of that Jack London story where the prospector and the wolf huddle together to fight off the freezing clod blizzard. PUMA's, please, please tell us how we can put aside our differences long enough to survive the O-storm!

Meanwhile, I've posted this before, but offer it again to any disaffected Hillary voters lurking here. You may re-use, repost without attribution, whatever, if you think it will help. If not, tell us what will.

 

OBAMA HAS A PURTY MOUTH

Barry, you... dear,
Did this sow's ear
Hear right or are you joking?
Even Slow Joe
Appears to know
Whose pig it is you're poking.

Your lame denial
Just makes us smile
When we see your tiny prick
Of conscience
But you lack sense
If you think we'll forget quick

How Gadarenes
Of the mainstream
Pressed to cup your silken purse.
Ignorant swine,
In slow decline,
Swallowing your pearls (or worse).

Phony Jesus,
You can't please us.
You're one more flaccid porker.
No boar: a bore,
A boor, a snore--
Our Hill? O!, how'd you dork her?

Play your race card
You soft, and hard-
ly high-toned, politician.
Ow! (uh?) you howl?
You dare cry foul
'Bout a "common expression"? .!..

So now we're fish,
You metro swish?
Stick your finger in our eyes?
Well, "Pigs" will do--
We'll vote for you
On the day that we can fly.

Sarah Palin
Is impaling
YOU, and you WILL remember:
It's YOUR lipstick
On your wee stick
That we'll mock in November.

 

48 Hey Linc, don't be an idiot. I deleted your post as fucking stupid.

49 They're not all women, Ace's liver. And it wouldn't matter if they were.

How sexist.  I don't see genders; I see unique individuals with diverse genitalia.


(I don't know, is this a good start?  I'm a moron.  Help me.)

50 Also, PUMAs read you Ace.  You've been linked, although the site I read tries to keep the language cleaner, so you were paraphrased.

51 Hey, the Dow is currently UP... who was it that said 8000 looked like a floor?

52 Yeah DM ... I was just about to post that. I am a major lurker of PUMA sites. They get info faster than lightning. They have linked to Malkin, ACE, Pajamas, etc.

Let's put party aside, ban together and nail this lying ass BO to the wall.

53

First he tells the ladies on his blog that they're logical.

Then he asks their advice.

Blame me.  I'm so lonely, the wind blows and I get hard.  So I forced Ace to post out-of-character shit by pumping him full of hormones.

54 thanks DM! and JennyC... i'm reading this all.

55 Oh and Obots HATE PUMAs. They post all kinds of nasty shit on their sites but the PUMAs send them packing in minutes. I love it.

56 I'm with you, Leon re Hillary..."Not like her, but respect her.  I'd argue against her at every turn come January, but I would not fear for the country like I do now."

57 I'm not sure why people are so put off about this.  When Reagan was elected (and re-elected) there were a ton of Dems that voted for him, for many different reasons.  If there are Dems that we can reach out to and convince we are better than Obama as a choice for them why the hell wouldn't you?

58 We welcome our new PUMA friends. Make yourself right at home. And tell us how we can help.

59 Dear Puma Lurker,

I disagree with you about a lot of things the government should do,  how the government should do it, and how big the government should be. We need each other to keep ourselves honest.

But we agree about some things. You are Democrats. Your party's founder Thomas Jefferson helped to set up our democratic system of government. I share Mr. Jefferson's belief that the people, the electorate, should rule our country. I believe that Republicans and Democrats agree that this system of government should be preserved.

I think that Mr. Obama represents an anti-democratic impulse within the Democrat Party. Mr. Obama has a long association of advising and doing business with ACORN that is at the center of several investigations of voter registration fraud. Each fraudulent vote diminishes all legitimate votes. If you share my love for democracy, if you are a democrat as well as a Democrat, you can't reward this behavior.

There are other shared values that I hope we can find common cause in: equality and American exceptionalism. We have a great country. Stand with us now.

60 As much as we may welcome PUMAs, can't we all just acknowledge that "equal pay" really means "Comparable (Communist) Worth"? It's a scam, and a communistic attempt to regulate pay scales. There IS equal pay in the same exact job type. Studies that claim otherwise pull sleight of hand like claiming doctors and nurses as "medical personnel" and they crying about "disparity".

61 The thing about the PUMAs is the fact that while they do have some hatred for Bush (which as a conservative republican is not to say that Bush should be void of any criticism), they are not like the nutroots that support Obama and I've seen that they despise socialism as much as we do.  I think they are getting a wakeup call.  Most of them are highly educated middle aged people.

While we need to get to more of them, the ones we really need to get info out to are the older Democrats like my wife's grandparents.  They just recently got internet (2 years ago) and they hate Bush, but they don't realize how despicable Obama is because they don't look for news on the internet (even though they have it).  For instance I've had to debunk several things that my wife's grandmother has said that she saw in an ad and I've told her that they've debunked it online.  She went on to tell me "Well why don't they mention it on tv for people that don't look for that stuff online?  Because I wouldn't even know where to begin to look online for that kind of stuff."

These are the people we need to get info to because sadly here in Ohio, the type of people that I've seen with Obama bumper stickers have been young people (my age 18-25) and surprisingly older people (over 65).

62

I consider the PUMAs to be the "Ripley Caucus"; because, if Obama wins because pro-choice / atheist / non-college-educated / whatever people stay home because of "all this bullshit that you think is so important", then "you can kiss all that goodbye".

One thing that might help is if our side didn't liken BHO to the Antichrist of Revelation, because that's crazy talk. The good news here is that our comments aren't nearly as bad as HotAir's in this.

Also anyone who lives in the hillcountry of Ohio, Indiana, Missouri, New Mexico - get out there and volunteer. Gently find out what kind of voter you're dealing with and make the pitch accordingly.

63

51 Hey, the Dow is currently UP... who was it that said 8000 looked like a floor?

Couldn't that just be from the bargain buyers again though?  Didn't we experience that one day last week?  Large drop off with a nice rally at the end.  The next day the stocks opened and they dropped again.

64 I'm not a PUMA, but I read their blogs.  I admire PUMAs tremendously! 

65 Lifetime democrat here, voting Republican this time around.

Yes, the reverend Wright is relevant.  Yes, Ayers is relevant. Khalidi is relevant. Tie all of that to Michelle's lack of pride in America.  Tie it to Obama's apologies to Berlin for America.  Tie it to Obama's psychologising about mid-America's clinging to mid-American values. 

I don't want a fraud in the White House.

I do want change in American government, but not this change. 

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY for me: With this election, I have seen just how anti-woman the democratic party has become.  What they willingly and knowingly did to Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin is beyond contempt. You want to appeal to thinking women (and there are a number of us out here), then start explicitly hilighting what the dems and the liberal media have done to the women running for high office.  Pull no punches, show what they've done.  The nutcrackers, the t-shirts proclaiming bitch and whore, the up-skirt porn shots of Palin, the creepy neo-liberal snl incest skit on Palin's kids.  Somebody outright ask Obama if it would be OK with him for snl to do a skit like that about his kids. Somebody ask Obama if it would be OK for the AP to take photos like that of Michelle's legs.  Somebody ask Obama if it would be OK for Michelle's effigy to be used as nutcrackers.  Somebody ask him how he feels about being the ultimate representative of people who do that.

66 The only people who claim PUMAs represent 8% of our party are PUMAs.  And there are probably about ten thousand of them.  You can head over to No Quarter and say hi to most of them if you like.

They have had and will continue to have no discernable effect on this ellection.

You want to know how to grab PUMAs?  Dump Sarah Palin and nominate Hillary Clinton.  Seriously.  Since you are unwilling to do that, I can't help you.

The Palin pick had the precise opposite effect of what was intended.  She is turning white women off in droves.

And ace, I am not out to lunch.  I am having lunch at my desk.  Hot Italian from Specialty's Bakery. Mmmmm.

67

Two words:

Palin, pantsuit.

68 Who are COUGARS voting for???   

69 Advice from me? Man up and support McCain, even if he fumbles. You never hear Obama supporters criticize their guy. The whining on here is over the top. How do you expect to convince anyone McCain is a better choice when you spend so much time tearing him down. It's counter productive.

PREACH IT, SISTER!

70 My wife reads and posts at the Hillary Forum. She isn't a PUMA and openly posts as a conservative. It has more or less become the Palin Forum. Many of the PUMAs want McCain/Palin now so Hillary can run in 2012.

They link to over here and Hot Air all the time. Ace, you could probably just drop in, ask and say thanks for the support.

Ayers, Rezko, Wright and Acorn seem to be popular topics for the PUMAs.

71

I've got to be the wet-blanket again - I don't think we have much in common with a good number of people we're talking about other than the vague populism that threatens to take over the GOP, the fact that they're own personality cult took a torpedo under the water from the Obama up and comers, and the sexists that just want to vote for women.

72 Seattle: 38% of Clinton supporters say THEY WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA. That number hasn't budged since June.

73

And ace, I am not out to lunch.  I am having lunch at my desk.  Hot Italian from Specialty's Bakery. Mmmmm.

I've never heard of a guy from Italy being named Lunch. Unusual.  

74 As someone surrounded by PUMAs and a "Lib Poser" (in order to be employed and have friends) - there's nothing you can do other than lose Palin.

They were totally on board and thinking of voting McCain until that move. It's over - they won't vote R with her on the ticket.

Sorry to say - I love Palin but she is uniformly hated among SE PA "reagan dems" and middle-class women.

75

I'm not a PUMA, but I have family members who are/were voting for Obama. I've made some headway with them over concerns we share about genetically modified foods/Monsanto.

Obama criticized Hillary & Bill for their ties to Monsanto lobbying then did a total about face and hired a Monsanto lobbyist as one of Obama's top aides and Monsanto directors for his science advisors:

I looked into whether or not Monsanto had lobbied or supported Obama's campaign and found this headline on the Organic Consumers website organicconsumers.org:

GM Watch: Former Monsanto Director Advising Obama
Top Obama adviser, Moses Mercado has worked as a lobbyist with Ogilvy Government Relations who is registered to represent several dozen big-name clients, including Monsanto and Pfizer Inc.
Four of Obama's five advisors on science come from the life sciences. They include Gilbert Omenn, a director of the biotech firm Amgen, and Sharon Long who until a year ago was on the board of directors at Monsanto.

The Team:   Sharon Long: Recently stepped down as dean of Stanford University's School of Humanities & Science to return to her research on the symbiosis of soil bacteria with alfalfa. Long resigned last year from the Board of Directors of Monsanto, an agricultural biotechnology corporation.
  Harold Varmus: President of the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center. He won a Nobel Prize in 1989 for breakthroughs in cancer genetics. Under Clinton, he directed the National Institutes of Health; the agency's budget doubled, but his legacy was tainted by his permitting NIH researchers to take excessive payments from pharmaceutical companies.

Gilbert Omenn: Professor of internal medicine, human genetics and public health at the University of Michigan. Former president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science; Omenn is a director of Amgen, a biotechnology company, and served in the Office of Science and Technology Policy under President Carter.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_14703.cfm   Not only that, but his campaign was vetting Ann Venemen as a possible VP pick. Ann Venemen was Bush’s USDA Secretary and a staunch supporter of GM crops. Now who is it that will be another 4 years of Bush again?

 

Given that Obama has betrayed his followers in the past with his yes vote on FISA, his yes vote on the Bush/Cheney Energy Bill (which McCain opposed for it's payouts to big oil) it certainly raises questions to see Obama embracing former Monsanto directors as his advisors.

76 Can someone put Bill or Hillary Clinton in front of a camera and ask either of them about these "new" revelations about Obama?  They'd have the perfect cover to say that they worry them greatly ...  Bill hasn't been shy about twisting the knife.

77

MlR at October 10, 2008 03:56 PM (PLmsY)

We didn't have anything in common with Russia during WWll except a common enemy.

78

this is the best thread I have read on any blog for a long time

rock on ace, you are like a god to me

79

I would qualify as a puma. I'm an East Coast Irish Catholic gal, born and bred Democrat, from the state of bitter gun-clingers. That being said, I'm not a moon-bat and I do not hate Bush. I live in California now and know that my vote for McCain won't swing the state but will vote for McCain nonetheless.

I have been a registered Democrate for 25 years but I feel that my party has left me, rather than me leaving my party. I have become much more moderate than liberal as I've gotten older. I have come to despise parts of the Democratic platform, especially the pro-abortion position. Obama's position on partial birth abortions is beyond the pale. I'm also infuriated at how Obama and his cronies smeared HC during the primaries. I'm not saying that Hillary is a perfect candidate, not at all. But the misogynistic attacks on her from the MSM, Obama's cronies and campaign (which are one and the same to me), have left me angry and alienated. The attacks on Sarah Pallin from Obama, his cronies, MSM and campaign have furthered my belief that Obama hates white women. Hates 'em. He has told me that I'm menopausal and meaningless. Even though I'm younger than him, he has told me over and over again that I do not matter. Obama is not even qualified to hold the position that he is currently elected to.

You know who Obama is to me? He's that empty suit with no subtance that my division president hired as my boss 10 years ago and then asked me to train him. All the while acting like he's entitled to every perk and more. Fucker. Until my division president realized that this empty suit knew nothing, was not qualified, and was fired.   

And I still can't believe that my party, the party of FDR and Truman, has foisted this phony, glib, unqualified terrorist pallin' around Socialist as a candidate.

McCain is an honorable man. His life has been an open book. If I wanted to know what he was doing at age 26, or what his class ranking was at Annapolis or what friends have to say about him at any given age...all I have to do is google. And Sarah Palin is the real deal.

So, count me as part of the 10% that will cross party lines and vote McCain. Because I absolutely can not vote for that one, the baby-killin', lying, terrorist sponsored, unqualified, Socialistic empty suit poseur running for the Democrats.

 

         

     

80 polynikes:

"I'm still wondering how you win NY, CA, NJ, OH, MI, FL and TX and lose your party's primary."

Well, when you campaign chair apparently doesn't realize that Democrats don't do 'winner take all' primaries and assumes that a narrow victory in the above states will wrap it up - and therefore doesn't even contend in the small states - you lose. 

Mark Penn apparently assumed that a narrow victory in Texas or California gave you a republican-like "victory" in that state, rather than a proportional share.  When in reality, a narrow victory gets you one more delegate.

Clinton ran a bad campaign.  Obama didn't.  You can say that says something about how they govern or not.  Either way, she lost and is now supporting Obama.

81 >>>the creepy neo-liberal snl incest skit on Palin's kids

In fairness, this sketch was actually making fun of NYT reporters for THEIR creepy determination to attack the kids and prove incest. 

But on your general point:

So the Republicans can plausibly push the idea that the Democrats are anti-woman?  Bear in  mind, I'm not asking if this will fly with you per se (I seem to have that answer), but if it's likely to fly with non-pumas or on-the-fence Democrats currently supporting Obama, but not not enthusiastically.

Also, Joe  Lieberman pointed out "this is not your  father's Democratic Party" now that it's become hijacked by the nutroots and assorted radicals, socialists, and idiot college students (sorry, non-idiot  college students) who would usually find both parties Fascist and stay out of the political process entirely.

Any juice on that?  Is this a concern to centrist Democrats?  Or, let me sharpen:  Is this  ENOUGH of a concern that we should push this  line aggressively?

Seattle,

you're a sad clown. I always thought you were a dreary wet-blanket, but I never until this day knew you were a political cock-blocker.

And your numbers are way off.

82 I'm a regular and not a lurker but am an independent single woman, so I have two cents...

Would showing the movement of the Dem party help? If I remember correctly, we got Regan not because he left the party but because the party left him. I've heard that view a couple of times this season.

As a woman the fundamental difference is this: do you want to chose the direction of your life or do you want it chosen for you? Boil the differences down without extra noise. I have an impression that liberal women want to be taken care of, to have a safety net in case they stumble. In my position, I can't think of anything less feminist than having anyone - man or woman - tell me I'm incapable of running my own life or recover on my own from stumbles. Remember the journalist to whom he said, "hold on, sweetie"? Her timing may have been off, but that was a clear expresson of view by him.

(No, I'm not a manhater, a lesbian, fat or ugly.)

83

Thomas Jefferson was NOT a member of the Democratic Party. That is a myth started by FDR back in the 30s. Jefferson was a “Jeffersonian Republican” if you want to call him a member of any party. His party is sometimes referred to as the “Democrat-Republicans”. The party later split when Andrew Jackson came on the scene and then THAT party became the Democrat Party.

84 66

Posted by: Seattle Slough

Forgive me if I remain unconvinced by the opinion of a commie-liberal Seattle-ite.

How's that plan to fight global warming by banning bonfires at the beach going?

How's that nickel-a-plastic-bag thing going?

Have you been fined for not recycling the right way yet?

85

" (No, I'm not a manhater, a lesbian, fat or ugly.)"

So, hey, what's your sign? I'm a Leo, babe.

86 kimberly:

Than how the fuck is McCain losing by ten?

87

My question for PUMAs et al. is how do you feel about McCain's anti-earmark, anti gov't corruption stances? Would playing that up help?

88 Good grief, it was a joke Ace.  Aren't you a cranky balls today.

89 I was the one saying 8,000 was the psychological floor. 

It's slightly below actual value on most stocks, if trended across the board.  From what I've seen (not much following it, really) the loss has been across the board, but most strikingly in finance and autos.  But as a general downturn, with nothing showing an up movement, you can't get below 8000 without getting serious money out of the T-Bills (where my 401k is safely resing since Sept)

90

I don't know if equal pay per se will resonate, but, like #19 and 65, I think the hypocrite factor may. And the mysoginism.

About older people supporting Obama; my father is the same and he's voted Republican since I was old enough to care/know. He just can't get hold of the idea that you can't trust what you read in the (Seattle Times) newspaper or see on TV. To him, Katie Couris is as trusted as Walter Cronkite. He doesn't even have a computer and when I try to talk to him about any of this stuff, his response is...if that were true, it would be on TV. Except it's not on TV because the media are in the tank for Obama. Except he doesn't accept that because, hey, he trusted Walter Cronkite. How the heck do you reach people like that?

As for the PUMAs, I've been visiting a lot of their blogs and many/most of them are already supporting McCain. It's the Hillary supporters that aren't PUMAs that need convincing but I'm not sure it's possible. If the sexism of Obama's primary campaign didn't bother them at the time, it's not going to bother them now. Is there a chance they don't know about the controversies surrounding the convention and delegates?

91

What can you do?  First of all, those of us who supported Hillary are not all Democrats, nor do we all call ourselves PUMAS.  I'm an Independent, and there are a lot of us, who do not suffer from any party loyalty.  We do not like big government, and are somewhat similar to the Reagan Democrats.  People like me are in the middle.

But, let me tell you what the McCain campaign needs to do.  He needs to absolutely hammer obama on Fannie & Freddie, hammer all the Democrats involved, hammer him on more than Ayers - Wright & Pfleger need to be addressed and in light of the new Louis Farrakan video where he calls obama a Messiah, McCain's got a prime opening for an ad with Wright, Pfleger & Farrakhan - i.e. the big three of hate. 

McCain also needs to get to women.  Some fool in his campaign thought that Sarah Palin would bring them in and nothing else had to be done.  Big mistake.  Women were ignored, while the obamanuts continue to hammer away at the fake issue of Equal Pay, and I say fake because its already illegal to pay women less than men, and McCain has a record of paying his female staffers more.  They haven't addressed women at all except for a few town halls that millions of us will never get to.  If you've signed up for Women for McCain, you know that in some areas, there has been absolutely no action.  Personally, all I've ever received or heard from that group was one e-mail, welcoming me directly after I signed up. 

The Citizens for McCain campaign is a disaster, and its national director mistakenly thought that hooking up with the Just Say No Deal coalition groups was going to solve all his problems.  Well, after he realized they were more interested in getting their faces on TV, were not very organized, and were promising things (like thousands of people) that they couldn't deliver, he didn't run away like he should have.  Now, with little time left and absolutely nothing accomplished, they have decided to deploy to battleground states.  Meanwhile, all the people that signed up when Citizens for McCain was originally announced have been wondering why they have been ignored for months and only received a few piddly e-mails throughout that time.   

And, as an Independent, one issue that bothers me right now, although I will be voting for McCain/Palin, is that McCain supported the bailout the second time around, and is now proposing to bail out mortgages to the tune of $300 million.  Indies and Reagan Democrats are fiscally conservative, and things like this do not sit well with us.  No one is going to bail out my small business when I close the doors in January because the price of gas and the subprime mess have destroyed it.  Nor would I expect them to.

Another issue is the fact that the only person on the ticket who has mentioned personal responsibility is Sarah Palin.  McCain hasn't touched it.  I don't appreciate that as a responsible mortgage holder who put more than 20 down on my home 3 years ago that I have lost that cash I put down since my home value has dropped thanks to the losers who made $50,000 a year and were buying $300,000 homes. 

And, lastly, as a small business owner who has had their business literally destroyed after record sales months at the same time last year, I don't appreciate that no one is talking about people like me - the real small business owners who have had their livelihoods trashed. 

92 >>>Ayers, Rezko, Wright and Acorn seem to be popular topics for the PUMAs.

Yes, but the problem is that these are popular topics for all anti-obama partisans, including me.  The question is whether this works with the *potential* pumas, the disaffected-but-still-loyal dems.

93 Than how the fuck is McCain losing by ten?

Posted by: Seattle Slough at October 10, 2008 04:04 PM (H5l9d)

The same way Dukakis was up by 20 and Gore up by 15 or Kerry up by 5.

94 pumas are fucking awesome

95 >>>Good grief, it was a joke Ace.  Aren't you a cranky balls today.

Dude, it's a joke made at Hillary's expense when I'm soliciting advice from Hillary supporters.

It's not cranky balls to say "Don't sabotage a potentially productive thread by dropping a needless hillary slam and inviting an unnecessary argument over it."

96 Is he, Seattle? Hard to tell when the polls favor Dems and AA. Sorry, dude. Polls are skewed. Is that why your fake messiah is going to blather about nothing for 30 minutes? Seems to me that is a waste of money for someone who is 10 points ahead in the polls.

Blackorchid has been drinking a hell of a lot of koolaid if he thinks Palin is not a big draw for PUMAs.

97 As a PUMA I have to say if you don't think you need us either that's fine Seattle.  But we're not here for you.  We're here for ourselves and our country.  I was told to come over and say hi.  First and foremost PUMAs are all men and they aren't all middle aged.

I'm a 25 year old college grad female working in a non profit and residing in a blue state.  Here's a hint I've always voted for Lieberman.  This is about stopping OBama and for me getting HRC on the ballot in 2012.  You don't have to think we matter that's fine, but if you want to gain more HRC supporters you have to buck up.  Get fired up and realize that your party is moving more towards the center.

Get the facts, I've been turning bots left and right.  Start embracing a moderate view, and show how McCain is a Maverick, has been against Bush on many instances, has been for reform.  Educate yourself and then get ready to educate others.  The best defense is a good offense and catching flies is alot easier with honey than with vinegar.

If you run into a Bot step away and don't engage.  You can spot them as well as the leaners a mile away.  Work on the leaners and not the bots.  It's your best bet that most HRC voters who are leaning towards BO just need an excuse to lean to the right... give them that excuse.

For me it was respect towards Hillary from McCain and the fact that McCain and HRC run more towards the middle than Obama ever will.

98

What if, instead of bringing up stuff like the Ayers thing over and over, McCain clearly, explicitly addresses Obama's unsatisfactory responses to these issues? That whole Jedi mind trick he does all the time:

"My twenty year membership in a racist cult is not relevant."

"His twenty year membership in a racist cult is not relevant."

That has to burn Hillary supporters, if only because she never could have gotten away with it. Just declaring things not relevant. How does it feel when a significant other does that? You kick him to the curb, sistergirl!

Should McCain move on from steps 1 and 2 and focus like a laser on step three?

1. One of Obama's negatives comes up.

2. Jedi mind trick (I was 8 years old the last time that guy actually murdered someone, so that makes the fact that he's still a radical subversive and he raised funds for me fairly recently irrelevant.)

3. McCain: I see what you did there!

I'm asking PUMAs, is this a good idea? I'm a conservative, and I think the basic conflict between us and liberals boils down to liberals being stuck on step one on every issue (people are supposed to only want their own taxes cut, if they think beyone immediate, short term self interest, and want their employers to get tax cuts, then there's something Wrong With Kansas), so I always want Republican's to talk like this. I want to know though, could this appeal to PUMAs?

99 seattle,

All this is so useless, and yet here you are, commenting furiously, telling us all how useless this is, and, as a kicker, how PUMAs and  centrist Democrats just don't count.

100

I've got to be the wet-blanket again - I don't think we have much in common with a good number of people we're talking about other than the vague populism that threatens to take over the GOP, the fact that they're own personality cult took a torpedo under the water from the Obama up and comers, and the sexists that just want to vote for women.

Posted by: MlR at October 10, 2008 03:56 PM (PLmsY)

 

Maybe not you personally but most people in this country can find common ground. I'm not saying you would have to agree with every damn thing but if you pull your head out of your ass you might find that there are a lot of things you will agree on.

 

Go ahead and jump me, flame away. Yes, I am an old time Conservative Democrat and a Disabled Nam Vet, go ahead and take your best shot at me Jr. I'm just down I-5 from ya.

 

I know a lot of Dems that are voting for McCain & Palin. They also voted for Bush, they did it and will do it because they LOVE the UNITED STATES of AMERICA.

 

 

Carry on.

101 #34 leon

Your second paragraph describes me pretty well.  I started off being very anti-Chillery but grew to respect her hard work to present herself to the voters because, let's face it, she isn't a natural pol like her rapist husband.  In fact she was pretty damn awkward which made her winning all the later primaries so impressive (and don't get me started on that cocksucking caucus system the donks have in place that gave Teleprompter Jesus the nomination).  Slick did her no favors with his oafish behavior on the trail; in fact the red-nosed predator should learn that when people don't need you for anything, being late is considered extremely disrespectful.  Slick had no coat-tails when prez so him not being able to help Hill should come as no great surprise.

102

The *biggest* thing we can do would be to understand when to act like guys. It's okay to droll over Sarah's legs when its a picture of Sarah. But when the MSM posts pictures of nothing but Sarah Palin's legs on a stage so that it looks like there's a stripper pole cropped off the side of the photo, that's fucking sexist and we should be condemning that.

It's the difference between a cheesecake photo of Jodie Foster and a still from The Accused.

103

You don't need to do anything.  As a PUMA, I am willingly to support you in your efforts to defeat Obama.  This election goes beyond party affliation.  This election is about saving our country from extreme left-wing nutjobs.

If you choose to use PUMAs in your campaign, trust me, it will send a powerful message.  Like you, we do NOT want that dangerous man and his cohorts near the White House.

104 Dude, it's a joke made at Hillary's expense when I'm soliciting advice from Hillary supporters.

Fair point, and FWIW I could have lived with Hillary being President.  You're still a cranky balls though.

105 "Advice from me? Man up and support McCain, even if he fumbles. You never hear Obama supporters criticize their guy. The whining on here is over the top. How do you expect to convince anyone McCain is a better choice when you spend so much time tearing him down. It's counter productive.

PREACH IT, SISTER!"

Amen!

Although I'll repeat what another commenter said, but about off the wall nutcase comments about Obama, the Hot Air commenters are a lot worse. What a bunch of whiners, and I'll bet no more than two or three even know where their county headquarters is, much less volunteer. It drives me nuts. And Malkin is one of the worse. Whine. Gripe. Bitch. Moan. Shut the fuck up and get off your lazy ass and work for the campaign.

106 I wouldn't vote for Senator Clinton for President, but were she to get elected, I would not have the nightly nightmares I have contemplating an Obama Presidency.  PUMAs, and sane Democrats reading this, we all know that Obama is dangerous.  He practically makes Senator Clinton look like a liberal Republican.

With the Congress we have, you pretty much have nothing hear from McCain Supreme Court appointees. 

We all know that unless McCain is elected, Senator Clinton will never make it to the White House. 

Voting for McCain is in your interest.  It's in Senator Clinton's interest.  It's time to do the right, if difficult thing and vote for Senator McCain.

And remember, voting is by secret ballot ;-)

107 I don't know how to link, but there's a story up at American Thinker by Paul Kengor that says better what I was trying to say. The people voting for Obama don't get why communism is bad so they don't get why a candidate with ties to thinkers with communist leanings is bad. I know the counter to ignorance is education, but with the likes of Bill Ayers "reforming" our schools I doubt that is possible right now.

108 As a small business owner myself, I have had to create a completely different marketing plan to create business and attract new clients ... payment plans, lower prices, extra incentives to sign on the dotted line. Never used to do it but it sure has helped my business. Why should government help my business? I've got to do it myself. Not waiting around for a handout from the gov.

109 You know who Obama is to me? He's that empty suit with no subtance that my division president hired as my boss 10 years ago and then asked me to train him. All the while acting like he's entitled to every perk and more. Fucker. Until my division president realized that this empty suit knew nothing, was not qualified, and was fired. 

THIS.
And the "hold on sweetie" thing from Obama to the female reporter.
Arrogant empty suit. Compared to McCain, old warhorse who has put in the time and knows how things work and believes in paying women the same and elevating them to power.

*spit*

Sorry. Reflex.

110 LadyZ: What do you think of Palin?

111 Posted by: jjj at October 10, 2008 03:51 PM (28UCi)

great post @ 65.  #1 thing i can't stand about Obama is his anti-Americanism/apology 4 American greatness

112

Go ahead and jump me, flame away. Yes, I am an old time Conservative Democrat and a Disabled Nam Vet, go ahead and take your best shot at me Jr. I'm just down I-5 from ya.

Perhaps you should see someone for that projection-laden, passive-aggression.

113

As said in another thread, you need to make a cogent and concise argument as to why Ayers-Wright ACORN-etc. matter in terms of the future, in terms of how he's going to govern, in terms of how it will affect normal people in terms of policy and real-life impacts.

You may think just the fact of the associations itself is slam-dunk moral turpentine, er, turpitude. But no serious person thinks Obama is going to appoint Ayers to the Cabinet. Even if they had weekly orgies of flag-burning and singing the Internationale, how does the fact of these past ties affect John and Jane Q. Voter?

114 I've been lurking over on the hillaryclintonforum.net site and have been chomping at the bit to be allowed to register and interact with them.

In other circumstances they would be our opponent.  But now, they are our allies in what I believe is a war over the soul of our country.  They recognize this danger and the need to defeat the Marxists who have taken over their party.

These are very smart people who are politically savvy and see what the media is doing to propel Obama forward. 

Contrary to what some might feel, this is not a "women scorned" thing for them.  They get it.  They see what a cancer Obama poses to their party.  They see the fraud and deceit and it disgusts them.

I saw a neat post on Hillbuzz...another Hillary supporting site...where there was a real understanding of the whitewashing done to Obama's life and career...and there was even an acknowledgment that yes, Republicans get smeared by the media all the time and while they didn't care for the methods, it was happening to their political foes so it was okay.  But then it happened to them with Hillary and they began to see the truth for themselves.

If they can make that kind of bold statement, I'll make an equally bold one.  I was wrong about Hillary and her supporters.  I had thought that Hillary was a "sore loser" with the complaints she made.  I thought Bill was blowing smoke when he whinged he was being accused of racism.

HERE ME PUMAS....  I hereby acknowledge that you all were right.  Hillary was screwed over by her party.  She did win and the political machine kept her from being the rightful nominee.  I was wrong and you were right.

I think it's important that we work together just like Ace is talking about because the danger Obama and Soros's ilk bring befalls not only on the Dem party but on America.

I'm sure if we get past this, we'll be duking it out with them in 2012 with Hillary as their candidate but in the meantime, let's set aside the differences we probably have as we all recognize the great danger for us all.

PLEASE let me post there!  

115 I'm late to this conversation but no PUMA woman will vote for a pro life candidate.

116 The question is whether this works with the *potential* pumas, the disaffected-but-still-loyal dems.


 I know that youtube video with Obama wanting to disarm America is damn effective. Personally showed that to people who changed their mind after seeing it.

Hammering more on Biden and Obama's extreme anti-gun positions will help too with pro-gun Dems.

117 Welcome disaffected Democrats! All of us morons here do appreciate your support in this election, and hope that together, all of us can beat Teleprompter Jesus!

118

Posted by: MlR at October 10, 2008 04:22 PM (PLmsY)

 

At least I fought for my country.

119 Thanks for your service, Hippy Vet!

120 "109 You know who Obama is to me? He's that empty suit with no subtance that my division president hired as my boss 10 years ago and then asked me to train him. All the while acting like he's entitled to every perk and more. Fucker. Until my division president realized that this empty suit knew nothing, was not qualified, and was fired. 

THIS.

Posted by: lauraw"

Sounds good, sweetie, but how to turn it into a campaign commercial?

McCollegial is already hitting his experience.  How to work the "promoted over a more qualified Hillary" angle without getting jeered for obvious pandering?

And could you work in some of that yummy potty-mouth?  You know how I like it.

121

You are welcome  nikkolai .

 

 

122 Oh and: the erections y'all have for Palin are robbing blood from yer brains.

123 115 I'm late to this conversation but no PUMA woman will vote for a pro life candidate.

Posted by: JimD at October 10, 2008 04:26 PM (j/wD+)

 

Yeah, I guess all their websites are just a GOP astroturf.

idiot

124

Ooooooh, the moral authority card. Now that's a rational argument.

I suppose it's a little better than preemptively threatening me for my presumed forthcoming, but non-existent threats to your own well-being.

125

I'd vote for lauraw for president.

126

Hi Ace,

I guess I'm a PUMA - though I think of myself as a moderate Dem -- Strong on national defense, markets -- the freer the better -- though can't understand why you folks feel the need to beat up on gays all the time -- let 'em alone.

McCain's problem is he has not put out a convincing plan on the economy -- granted, neither has Obama -- but Obama at least represents something different from what is currently happeningh.  McCain needs to assemble a team we trust -- Romney, Whitman, oh hell -- Rubin even -- and just stand firm -- remind us that Obama is risky, and remind us that whatever is happening, we will survve, and it will get better.  And that he will fix the corrupt policies that got us here in the first place.

Obama scares the hell out of me -- by this time next year under an Obama presidency, every other American will be getting a government check (well -- 51% will be on welfare of some type or another -- just enough to buy 'em off to create a lasting Dem constituency) -- which might make them momentarily happy -- but will kill America's growth for a generation. 

But McCain has behaved so erratically that Obama comes off looking like an economic genius.

Remind people that Obama CANNOT handle this crisis --in fact, with the Dow sinking even lower -- McCain can now start talking up this crisis where Obama is surely out of his depth -- with his meager experience, with his crony pals, etc.

But McCain has to hold firm -- I just gotta believe he will lead us out -- perhaps even with an international angle -- work with world leaders to stave off a depression --

BTW -- love your page -- sure wish more libs had a sense of humor

127 I'm actually waiting in anticipation for the next blind non-sequitor.

128
Ace is right. One of the goals of political action is to expand your party's base. Appealing to disaffected members of the opposition party is a very good way of achieving that goal.

129 HippieVet: Ditto from me. :-)
I was at lunch yesterday with my sis and two gentlemen in uniform were standing in line. We thanked them for their service and I paid for their lunch. They then asked if they could sit with us. Had a really great convo about their time in Iraq and Afghanistan and how the MSM sucks.

JimD has shit for brains and doesn't have a clue. Abortion is not an issue this time around. National security, energy, truthfulness, unsavory associations trumps it.

130 I have a question. My father is frustrated. He says he does not understand why women complain about not being taken seriously, but they don't support other women . Why is it that women won't support Palin better, but will flock to Obama, who has been dismissive of women in general and Palin and Hillary in particular?

131 115 I'm late to this conversation but no PUMA woman will vote for a pro life candidate.

JimD, I think you are completely wrong about that.  And I think you would be equally wrong to assume that every conservative or Republican woman believes that the government should be allowed to tell her what she may or may not do with her own body or, alternatively, that back-alley abortions are preferable to our current state of affairs. 

As someone posted above, this election is about the soul of our country.  Do you honestly believe that everyone voting McCain/Palin is going to agree with either of them on every issue?

132 Ace - How about a debate, you and me. We'll discuss whether a Saturday night curled up with my Obama buttplug and the children's underwear section of the JC Penny catalogue is waaaaaay better than being with a woman.

You game?

133

"110 LadyZ: What do you think of Palin?"

Hi Kimberly:

Personally, I have nothing against Palin.  Granted, I do not necessarily agree with all of her views (though I am a heavy advocate for drilling), but I do not believe, in my heart, that she is the monster that the Obots and the MSM portray her to be.  The ultra-libs love to dangle "Roe vs. Wade" in my face, but I get the impression that she believes in allowing decisions to be made on a state level.   At the end of the day, it boils down to my instincts, which tell me that McCain/Palin is a helluva lot safer than Obama (*shudders*).

134 Man up and support McCain, even if he fumbles. You never hear Obama supporters criticize their guy.

But that's because large portions of them see themselves as socialist revolutionaries, and anything goes with them. They idolize Che, for fuck's sake.

If we can't attract reasonable Democrats with reasonable arguments, then they're not reasonable.

135 Someone call the waaaambulance. ACORN is the victim!

136 Hello there Ace, PUMA here.

The most important thing the McCain campaign can do is get Sarah Palin ready for a lot of media interviews and send her to every TV station and every show.  She has more impact than you can imagine if she is uncut and able to talk live without editing.

The second most important thing is to keep one consistent message on the economy and repeat it often. SELL IT.

The last thing HE ABSOLUTELY MUST DO is to bring Obama's numbers down by bringing out all of his associations.  Where is Khalidi, Al-Mansour, Odinga, Wright, and people that knew Obama at Columbia and Harvard.  Bring them on.  You know why the MSM attacked Sarah?  It wasn't because they don't like her.  They did it to bring her negativity numbers up.  Negative campaigning works.  It moves the centrists/moderates like us.  THE MOST DRAMATIC thing that it will do is KEEP MANY OBAMA SUPPORTERS AT HOME. They won't show up to vote if they aren't enthusiastic.  I am looking forward to hearing about more of Obama's associates!  And please do what Reagan did and look over the MSM and disregard their biased critiques of negative campaign.  We all know it works.  That's precisely why they attacked Sarah.

Finally, get Todd Palin out there.  This guy can bring home the Joe Six Pack.  Sarah and Todd are a lethal combo for any opponent.  They're the real deal. 

137 I was at lunch yesterday with my sis and two gentlemen in uniform were standing in line. We thanked them for their service and I paid for their lunch. They then asked if they could sit with us. Had a really great convo about their time in Iraq and Afghanistan and how the MSM sucks.

Posted by: kimberly at October 10, 2008 04:36 PM (Rpam5)

I wish there were more people like you. That was a very nice thing to do. Thank you.

138 ACORN is a big thing for PUMAs, since it was Obama's nefarious fraud and dirty dealings that created the genesis for PUMA in the first place.

The PUMAs I am in contact with are supporting Palin, because even though they may not agree with her policy issues, they are going to support her and not have her be the victim of the sexist crap they flung at Hillary and every other successful woman who has tried to make in politics.

This is about country, not party -- McCain hit the right note when he reached out and said, "We are all Americans first".  This is about doing the right thing for our country, and Obama is too extreme and too disingenuous for anyone to stomach, save for the hard-core left and those who hate America.

You could try giving a shout out to Murphy at PUMA Pac and link to some of the PUMA prowls.  Today I got one asking PUMAs to call/fax/write Boehner to keep up the heat on the Dept of Justice to investigate voter fraud and shut down ACORN.  I did that, and also called the DOJ voter dept.

That's a "country first" issue.

139

One is where an Acorn claims to have registered a voter when the worker has done no such thing, which is employee fraud against Acorn with zero implications for election day.

Oh just keep telling yourself that. That person will be "rehabilitated" next time around. The only way to insure ourselves against this is removing non-voters from the rolls each and every time.

The other is when people who know better claim that any Acorn employee fraud on Acorn allows people - I'll go further: even one person - to vote more than one time, or to vote when they - even one of them - is not eligible to vote. You're up next.

Anyone who knows the illegals voting around here is laughing now.

140 There is this Strange Bedfellows thing going on but it's mostly a lot of awkward and embarrassed fumbling around at this point.

Must every post be about Ace's love life?

141 Look, I'm all for bringing the PUMAs over. If Pelosi can choke on her bile to rope in blue dog Dems (and does Reid have any bodily fluids? He looks dessicated. Must be that desert air), we can surely bring in a wide variety of people to support McCain. Why not?

My own line right now is what has Obama ever done except for self-promotion? He talks a lot, but I haven't seen much in the way of action. What is he going to do? What has he ever done? I don't if that's enough to move PUMAs, but it's pretty frickin presumptuous to run for the presidency not even having one full term in national office for anything. To be frank, I didn't think much of Hillary's experience, either, but it's not like the Democratic slate with experience up this year were all that impressive. Biden? I mean - WTF? Biden? Talk about all talk. And his talk doesn't even make sense! Ugh, if I were a Hillary supporter, I'd be offended by the Biden pick.

I suppose there's a chance for Hillary in 2012 even with a President Obama, if he screws stuff up enough, but I don't see that happening. If Obama loses, Hillary can be their "I told you so" candidate in 2012.

142 Must every post be about Ace's love life?

Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at October 10, 2008 04:42 PM (eDdOG)

 

YOU OWE ME A NEW MONITOR!!!!

143 ACE--if you go to the pumapac blog and read their work, they are very concerned about Ayers, as any sane person should be. ACORN is also a real problem to them, especially after they were treated so badly by Obamatron thugs at caucuses.

I think the big hook to get even more of them could be to really play up the things that Obama and Ayers funded with that CAC money. These are people who support public education, and the fact that Obama/Ayers had over a hundred million bucks to try to help poor kids in school but chose to distribute it to radical thug agitators instead should be huge.

Hell, following that CAC money could be a big turn-off to middle class parents who aren't nearly as politically in tune as the PUMAs too.

144 I sense that the reason we are having these conversations is that there is some Democrat loyalty going on, but I don't understand that. I don't feel loyal to the GOP, they just tend to be right.

There is some angle about this I think we're missing. Could a PUMA explain it in terms that don't involve union songs?

145

Diderot's dog at October 10, 2008 04:37 PM

When you make an argument that is either so naive or so dishonest that the MSM hasn't made it, you know you've accomplished something special.

146 I am waaay late to this conversation, but I guess I am considered a PUMA.  If you look at the acronym, true PUMAs are alienated by the actions and attitude of the Democratic party of late.  I echo the sentiments of many, that the D party left me behind in their blind hatred of GWB.  They are blind to everything else and have made the last 4 years (at least) the most blatently partisain I have ever experienced.

I have never voted Republican, ever.  When I was younger, they didn't encompass the views I felt were important, such as abortion and fair wages.  I also have never been so involved in my education of the issues until this election.  As I have gotten older, I too have become more moderate and would classify myself as a centrist.  I have liked John McCain for years because I have seen him as a man willing to put aside petty partasain BS and get work done for the good of the country.  I also believe in his integrity.  Maybe I'm naieve.

I have a lot of liberal friends who blindly follow Obama and it truly disgusts me.  At the beginning of the primaries I thought that either Clinton or Obama would be a good choice for me, then I started doing my homework.  What I found, and continue to find, has started to give me nightmares.

I think the worst thing is his overt socialist ideals.  He talks them up so pretty that the everyday lazy ass getting their political knowledge from the TV is easily sucked into them.  I think if leaners TRULY understood what policies would be put in place to even the financial playing field, they would be shocked.  My husband and I worked hard for what we have, not to have it taken away and given to some lazy SOB waiting for a government handout.

For what it's worth.

147

"Ayers, Rezko, Wright and Acorn seem to be popular topics for the PUMAs.

Yes, but the problem is that these are popular topics for all anti-obama partisans, including me.  The question is whether this works with the *potential* pumas, the disaffected-but-still-loyal dems."

Actually, these are the topics plus Fannie Mae that I think McCain should be hitting. I'm an attorney in San Diego, and most in the office know that I'm a registered Dem. Most in the office are registered Democrats. I had kept my opinions to myself over the last few months as I saw more and more shit that I didn't like about Obama. Had I not known about the Ayers, Wright, Phleger (is that his name?) and Acorn stuff, I might have held my nose and voted for Obama. Not now. The reason why I say this is because I was approached last week by some office bot who wanted to joke about how awful Gov. Palin was at the VP debate. I told her point blank that she wiped the plugs off of Biden's head and that she helped her ticket. She responded that she could not take another four years of Bush policies. I responded that I could not possibly vote for someone who was mentored by cop-killing, domestic terrorists. She had never heard of the Ayers connection. I think that McCain should keep hitting Obama on this and hard. It's a topic that the MSM tried to hide and a lot of people, other than bloggers, did not know about. I was a disaffected, possibly loyal Democrat until I read about the Ayers connection. To me, cop-killing, bomb-making domestic terrorists as mentors are a non-negotiable character flaw. Period. Wright was distasteful but we've seen his tired act before. Acorn is criminal but how do you stop them? Voter fraud has been around since people began to vote. Rezko is expected (Hello? Chicago politics?) but Ayers is beyond the pale. Both he and his wife should have been jailed for the last 20 years.  

I also think that McCain needs to somehow seperate himself from Bush. Many of the bots think that McCain is more of Bush. Is it too late to seperate? Maybe.      

I don't think anyone cares about the sexist attacks that Obama, his campaign and the MSM used on Sen. Clinton and have continued to do on Gov. Palin. Would I love to hear McCain say something angry about that? Sure but like I said, I don't think that is an issue for anyone except me.      

148 My mom's a PUMA who caucused for Hillary. The thing she still talks about is Jeremiah Wright and the thing about the gvmt creating the AIDS virus to kill black people.

She was an infectious diseases nurse at a major teaching hospital in the early 80s when the AIDS cases started slamming them and were a total mystery to the doctors, so that may have a lot to do with it....FWIW

149 Thanks LadyZ. I appreciate your reply. And, yes, Sarah did say that in 2006, I believe. An Obot said to me the other day, Quit calling us Obots. I replied, Quit acting like one then. Can't stand their hatred and their overzealous adoration for Obama. Blind fools.

150 JimD has shit for brains and doesn't have a clue. Abortion is not an issue this time around. National security, energy, truthfulness, unsavory associations trumps it.

Exactly. JimD, How do you like them apples?

151 I'm late to this conversation but no PUMA woman will vote for a pro life candidate.

Bull. Not every woman is pro abortion. Not every woman has an abortion litmus test. As Lynn de Rothchild said, she's an atty and does not believe they will ever repeal Roe v. Wade and is tired of the democrats using it as a millstone around the necks of women. And please don't come back and tell me, uh uh, that's not true. You're entitled to your opinion, she is entitled to hers.

I'm going to repeat for the second time what formerdem posted: Advice from me? Man up and support McCain, even if he fumbles. You never hear Obama supporters criticize their guy. The whining on here is over the top. How do you expect to convince anyone McCain is a better choice when you spend so much time tearing him down. It's counter productive.

Stop shooting yourselves in the foot!

152

It's taken a while to get to the bottom of this thread, lots of good commentary. I'm a conservative feminist and when Palin said there were 18,000,000 cracks in the hardest highest ceiling, it brought tears to my eyes. Back in the seventies when I began my career in an almost all male profession, I dealt with rampant sexism,  for years and not until this year's election have I seen such a prominent display of it. Horrifying.

Palin was asked if she could balance motherhood and working.

That should set every working mother's teeth on edge, because if they can tolerate it being asked about Palin - then they must tolerate that it will be asked about them - and used as a justification for lower pay. Been there and done that. Equal pay is not communism, it's fairness. I've personally seen women in the exact same positions and with more responsibility given lower pay than male coworkers. It is a disgrace.

Prochoice women will vote for Palin. Some won't, but those are a very small and uninformed minority. It isn't the end-all issue it used to be as most activists realize the states will have the final decision even if Roe v. Wade gets overturned. 

A word to the PUMA's, thank you for standing up for the treatment of women. And JM needs more than the Sarah and Cindy show. He needs other women's voices.

I rarely make feminist points on conservative sites because conservative men are somehow of the belief that all feminists are militant. Get over it. We have a right to be proud that Hillary very nearly won the nomination. (In reality probably did win it and was cheated out of it.) When you fail to understand that - you miss the issue entirely.

That's why Obama's character is an issue that resonates. Every Hillary supporter was knocked down and told to like it, as their sacred right to vote was undermined at the caucusses and the elections were rigged - as they currently are - for a predetermined outcome. Call them bitter and clinging to democracy.

153 >>>Must every post be about Ace's love life?

In fairness to me, I was making that joke....

Does no one get what I'm doing here?  Am I doomed to be an unappreciated genius?  Does my blazing intellect separate me from my fellow man, or as I call them, drooling potato-shaped subcreatures?

154 All I know, is EVERY day I am sending hundreds of e-mails to everybody I know, and even a lot I don't know ..... hahahaha.  My back is killing me!!!  BUT, we have to fight ... We can't allow Obama and his thugs to take over our country.  Tell me how I can help, and I will!!

155 The bottom line is that if two adversaries can find common ground on one thing, they can find common ground on a lot more.  They are more willing to listen to each other with open minds.  When an opportunity like that comes along, it has to be seized.  There aren't many chances to break through barriers like that.

156

I am a PUMA-independent, conservative.  When I discovered this organization I was thrilled to discover that they knew the Leftist's had taken over the Democratic party and these folks are very unhappy about this.  I have discovered that we have more similarities than differences from all of us.  They love this country which is why I proudly joined them.  To quote a comment on American Thinker-the republican party has a big enough tent for all.

The time has come to forget our differences and join forces with all groups who want to take our country back from the leftist, marxists that call themselves Democrats.  Have a heart, these folks have lost their party.  You need to go to Hillaryclintonforum,  PumaPac, NoDeal, and Noquarters all have sites there that I visit morning and evening.  If Republicans had been as organized and informed about Obama as these people are we would be winning this election.  They travel all over the country to support MCCAIN/PALIN.  They are taking buses to PA this weekend.  Nothing to fear here they are Americans that want our country back.  Give them you support and join them.

157

Boy the ad hominem attacks really fly on here, I was hoping conservative boards would not stoop to comments like "idiot" or "stupid"

Abortion is a killer issue for a lot of women, esp young women, and they will not vote for a strong pro life candidate.  Call me stupid if you like, but dems the facts.

158

McCain has to go after Wright. He has to put him back on the table. McCain owes it to the America that he loves to do everything he can to save us from BHO. Wright is current, actively militant, actively radical. He is a part of the present. When you hear Wright, you get a good idea of what is in BHO's heart. Also, BHO's connection to ODINGA. That is current...today...not 40 years ago. ACORN is today, current. McCain, in the debate, should just turn to Obama over and over again and say, "Why are you afraid of the truth? What are you running from? Why do you want your middle name censured?  What are you afraid of? Why do you REFUSE to be transparent with the American people? Are you afraid that your association with Wright, Ayers, ACORN, Odinga, Rezko, Farrakahn etc are going to hurt your chance of being elected if the American people knew the truth.? Why won't you produce your Birth Certificate? If you applied for any Federal job that required a security clearance, you would be rejected. Don't the American people deserve to know the truth about you? Why are you so secretive about your college years? Where are your transcripts? Why is everything sealed?"  Mccain should read off a Litany of questions and then watch him uh, uh, his way through them. Throw everything at him. And when he brings up the Keating 5 Mccain should say," Yeah, the American people know all the details about that and everything else in my life, don't they deserve to know the details of your life? Senator BHO " "What is it that you are so afraid will come out that you try to censure everything? What is it? Are you afraid that once the string gets tugged on by the media that you and your devious grand designs for this country will unravel??? Mr. BHO, you are really counting on the American People to go Dumb and Blind into that good night aren't you. Well, those are not the American people that I know. The American people that I know want the TRUTH, expect the TRUTH, and will find out the TRUTH, with or without your help or the help of your surrogates, the MSM.  I am on the side of the American people and I will help them, in whatever way I can, to find out the truth. I owe the American peolpe that, regardless of the outcome.  Why do I owe them that? Because I love the American people, I love this country and they deserve the truth that the media and you have tried very hard to deny them. I will alwys fight on the side of the American people. I made that decision a long time ago as a POW. COUNTRY FIRST...no matter what the outcome!" Anyway....this is what I think McCain should say to BHO!!!

159

Wow. This thread has truly been a ray of a bright future today.

Just to the post above- Kathy, I don't know how it is on other sites, but we're all ears here. Yes, we act like a bunch of guys (primarily because most of us who post here are), but there are many women who post here, many of whom I would refer to as neo-feminists... again, I don't think that you'll find the folks here to be quite so rapidly dismissive.

Anyway, PUMAs, just to echo the thoughts of most of the above posts, you are always welcome here. We have our problems with troll and Obot infestations here, but the conversation is livelier with you here. Please feel like the door is always open, and that we might even manage to find some significant common ground.

We've got your back in this election- we're glad to hear that it appears you have ours, too. We stand with you. Welcome to Moronville- we're glad you're here.

tmi3rd

160 Forget sexist comments like fumbling under the bed.
A lot of Pumas are working class women, who are bringing up kids on low pay.
Personally I always thought that BO was brought in to split Hillary's vote and then to ruin her Health Care plan.
Working class womwen like health care-have you seen Krugman's latest post on the NYT saying that McCain will remove any kind of medicare etc??
Another is equal pay/raising min wage/schooling.
McCain's HOLC plan is liked.
MORE of PALIN-also Cindy
Mention Vote Fraud in the Dem Primaries.
Obama -Pritzker connection and the subprime market. http://tinyurl.com/4xlppq

161

Obamabot from work is very angry about the GOP hammering the Ayers issue. I take that as confirmation that it's working.

I also take Seattle Slough's desperate mocking of a PUMA-McCain alliance as a signal that the hard core left is terrified of Hillary supporters crossing over.

And well they should be. The arrogance and dismissiveness and sense of entitlement from the The One is unacceptable to many. This guy's only accomplishment is self promotion.  That's got to gall a lot of independent women.

162 I get what you're doing and it's brilliant, ace. :-) We need to band together and defeat Obama. It's now or be subjected to an extremely progressive/socialist agenda. Get the message out. Spread it far and wide. Emails. Blogs. It will get out.

163 Oh, look, it's ol' JimD 'splainin' the wimmin-folk to us again.

Barf!

164 More Palin. More Palin. More Palin.

165 >>>McCain's problem is he has not put out a convincing plan on the economy -- granted, neither has Obama -- but Obama at least represents something different from what is currently happeningh

yes... the thing is, he has, on paper, a decent plan.  But I'm not going to lie to you -- I think it was assembled by conservative economists with very light input from him and he doesn't know, as Reagan did, how to synthesize various points into a coherent sensible vision.   I'm not sure he knows how all the parts  fit together, or, more likely, he's just not terribly fluent about expressing that.  And he's also not passionate about it, and not particularly comfortable on it.

For example, Obama keeps insisting he's giving tax breaks to corporate executives.   This is nonsense, unless I've missed something major. AFAIK, he's proposing NO reductions in the marginal rates for ANYONE.  Instead he offers the doubling of the child credit and 5K health plan credit, which are very progressive tax cuts (i.e., they impact the bottom much much more than the top... or the middle, rather.  they very bottom pays no taxes so don't get much of  a lift there).

Obama is using some kind of slight of hand say that if you cut capital gains rates, it's  X amount of a cut in income tax rates for the rich.  Or if you cut the corporate and business tax rates, that means that x additional dollars will go to additional salary for fatcats, etc.

Well, yes and no; it is a cut in total taxes paid, but there's a reason for it.  But instead of even making the case, Mccain lets Obama assert this every time without a peep of objection.  And so I don't know what's going on here -- does he not think there's any point in arguing, or does he not get his own plan?

Obama's now done this in TWO debates.  I would have expected McCain to be  prepared to fire back in the second, at least.

Oh, thanks for the compliment.

166 I bet this thread reaches 1,000 posts by the end of the eve.

167 JimD, you are very wrong. I'm pro-choice and I like Sarah Palin. And although under normal circumstances I'd vote for McKinney, since I live in state where the race is tight (Virginia) I'll vote for McPalin on election day without hesitation. Honestly, I've always like John McCain and, although I don't share her position on all the issues, I think Palin is a great VP choice. And not just because she's a woman. Palin has a genuine charm and warmth that is rare in politics, she connects with voters… even some of the liberal ones like me.

168 PUMAs! Don't be suckered into making abortion the deal-breaker! McCain will get two SCOTUS picks, tops. If he owes chits to Dems like you for getting him elected, it will come in the form of Souter or Kennedy clones--"moderates" of whom a Democratically controlled Senate will have to approve, and who will probably vote with Ginsberg nine out of ten times anyway. Even if Roe/Wade is overturned in a McCain administration, the result will be 50 referenda on abortion as per the 10th amendment. Let's fight that battle when it comes but for now, we have a common enemy, and that makes us friends.

169
Yes: welcome, PUMAs. We may not agree on everything, but it seems we do agree on some of the really important things, the things that matter. This is the first time that I've actually heard what PUMAs are thinking. I'm interested and impressed. I really had no idea until now where you stood.

170 I sent an email to admin at both hillaryis44 and hillaryclintonforum ....

171 Boy the ad hominem attacks really fly on here, I was hoping conservative boards would not stoop to comments like "idiot" or "stupid"

Heh. You're in the wrong place, cocksucker.

^{Don't take it personally, JimD. I think you're all cocksuckers.}

172

Boy the ad hominem attacks really fly on here, I was hoping conservative boards would not stoop to comments like "idiot" or "stupid"

Abortion is a killer issue for a lot of women, esp young women, and they will not vote for a strong pro life candidate.  Call me stupid if you like, but dems the facts.

Posted by: JimD at October 10, 2008 04:59 PM

Gosh, really?

Help me understand this article that seems to say just the opposite.  Is it just right-wing garbage from PBS?

http://tinyurl.com/3g54pg

Stupid idiot.

173

Hey, don't worry ladies. JimD will tell you what to think. Don't you worry your pretty heads. Just go on ahead hatin' Palin like he and Obama tell you to.

174 .from ace ==> "So the Republicans can plausibly push the idea that the Democrats are anti-woman?  ...  if it's likely to fly with non-pumas or on-the-fence Democrats currently supporting Obama, but not not enthusiastically."

It definitely flies with my east coast, middle-aged, educated, employed, adolescent-raising, female friends and co-workers.  We've been busting our asses for years, working for the money, working for our kids, and the dems think that all they have to do is scare us with the thought that we might not have abortion rights any more.  The liberal PC culture allows attacks on female people because simply because they are female.  The dems are electing a black man because it is PC to do so.  This particular black man has no real credentials and no real qualifications, but it didn't matter.  Women have been working toward democratic ideals for years.  After we take care of ourselves and our families,  we work in our communities and our schools.  Palin or Hillary Clinton is us.  They've worked for it.  Barack Obama is not us:  he's the black man who didn't work for it.  He got it for PC reasons.

175

Ace, I get it and added a question of my own above: My question for PUMAs et al. is how do you feel about McCain's anti-earmark, anti gov't corruption stances? Would playing that up help?

I could see that being a good issue to differentiate him from both Obama and pork-full Republicans.

176 I mean, gosh, it sure was considerate of JimD to step forward and speak for all liberal women so that they can go ahead and worry about more important things. Like getting dinner ready.

177 highlights and general impressions have been sent to the McCain camp.

178 #174 -- good stuff!  Needs to be said loudly and often!

179 No need for any more PUMAs to comment. JimD has already spoken for you.

180 actually the whole thread was sent but I doubt they'll read  it all, so I gave them cliff's  notes, to the extent I understood what you were saying.

181

While not a PUMA, I love the idea of running commercials about the wage difference. Why? Because it's another data point in the argument that Obama is all talk. He says he's for inclusion, but he goes to a racist church. He says he's for tax cuts, but he's always voted to raise. And he says he's for equal pay. Etc. It also reinforces the notion that one man talks the talk, while the other walks (ie. picking Palin)

The funny thing about voters is that you never know which argument will resonate with them. Very often the big issues like economics or foreign policy blow past them and it's a minor point, like Obama paying his female staff less, that takes hold in their minds. Pass the word: Make that argument, make that ad.

182 #18 I agree.  While Bill Clinton gave me heartburn, Obama scares the crap out of me.  Although I will probably never agree with much of what Hillary stands for, I never questioned her Patriotism.  In fact, I felt she got a raw deal.  I'm proud the PUMAS are doing what they are and I wish them the best.  I also look forward to the day when Clinton Democrats and Reagan Conservatives can argue in peace!  In the meantime, together, let's defeat the One who is driving both sides crazy.

183 Abortion used to be the big  voting issue for me, but Milesdei is right.  The chances of Roe v. Wade being overturned is very slim.  Besides, Obama's horrendous attitudes towards abortion have actually got me backing off a bit.  When he claimed he didn't want his daughters to be 'punished' with a pregnancy, it showed his true nature.  I still believe that in instances of incest and rape that there needs to be options, but letting botched abortion babies die?  That sickens me.

I, too, think Palin was a great choice for the ticket.  I don't agree with A LOT of her views, but she has shown her willingness to put aside her own beliefs to represent the majority of her constituents.  I appreciate her unflinching character.  She was a great choice because she holds (I believe) classic conservative views on most issues and by choosing her McCain appeased the Repubs that were less that pleased at his nomination.

184 Umm...what time of the day did BHO send out the text message that he'd chosen Biden as VP?  Wasn't it at 3:00AM?  Same tiem as mentioned in Hillary's most effective ad?  I told my wife (life-long Democrat) and she was pissed.  Not po'd enough, but I'm working on it. 

185 re: not your father's democratic party....

Yes.  Moderate democrats are turned off by the kookiness of today's uber-liberal culture.  Our party has become the voice-box of the quacks: the perverse, the lazy, and the not-well-educated.

186 First off I'm not telling anyone what to think or do, and secondly I am a McCain supporter.  I'm just going by what I've seen on polls, if they are wrong so be it.  Then what explains why women are going 2-1 for Obama?  His economic brilliance?

187 Gee warden, repeat yourself much?

188

Equal pay is not communism, it's fairness. I've personally seen women in the exact same positions and with more responsibility given lower pay than male coworkers. It is a disgrace.

I am sure that office favoritism abounds. But my point stands: when Barry the Obamunist talks about "equal pay" what he *really* means is implementing "comparable worth" by government decree. Sorry, but different market forces affect demand for say, secretaries, more than the same market forces do for say, truck drivers or construction workers.

189 Also, if the funds are there, send every undecided voter a copy of "The Case Against Barack Obama".

And a package of adult diapers.  That book is full of scary shit.

And, since he asked for it...

JimD,

You're stupid.

190 A more important question, JimD, is where does this "party loyalty" in otherwise-conservative people come from? And could a group of voters who don't actually read their own party's output be to blame for the loons taking over?

191 I would like to thank the lady who said "ignore the Bots". That is some great advice and I'm now going to heed it. I have been banging my head debating a couple of these Bots and for some reason could not get it through my thick scottish head that I was getting nowhere. I'm now going to refocus on the leaners.

In reality, McCain will disappoint us conservatives more than the PUMAs. We know this, yet we know he is much, MUCH better than BO.

Great thread Ace.

192

One of the reasons some PUMA's may be out to get the Obamites is the way they were treated during the caucuses.  I read the other day that they were intimidated by the Obamites includeing being yelled at and called c...s.

Just think how the country will be after four years of this.

 

 

193

Wow, one helluva thread going on here. One of the best I've seen in a while. From what I'm getting from reading is to focus on...

~ Freddie/Fannie: It's the economy, stupid!

~ ACORN?The Chicago way: It's the fraud, stupid!

~ Ayers/Wright: It's the lying and shadiness, stupid!

You then throw in some maverickyness here or there that would normally highly annoy the base, and voila! No Obama.

 

194 incidentally, thanks, one thing I've learned here (among several) is that attempts at outreach are not seen necessarily as "pandering," or at least not "bad pandering."   And that there is a lot of anger at how Hillary was treated, and the unfairness of the press, and exploiting those resentments will not cause annoyance, but rather be greeted more like "Yes, I remember  that, and I'm still pissed off."

I have advised McCain's camp of this as point 1.

195 Great suggestions non-socialist Democrats and Pumas!

196 >>>Wow, one helluva thread going on here. One of the best I've seen in a while.

And I was called sad and insane in the beginning.

I like it too, good thread.  it's also interesting to see new people posting.  especially people who loathe obama nearly as much as I do.

197 As an Ace reader, and a lady, I'd like to welcome the PUMAs to this blog. I'm sorry that some Ace readers haven't been as welcoming. There are people who don't understand that politics makes for strangebedfellows.

Fact is, if we don't band together, we'll hang together soon enough, to paraphrase the great Dr. Benjamin Franklin.

I have been reading the HCF for a while, as well as Hillbuzz, and though I realise much of their hatred is towards Obama personally (mine can be characterised as political distaste), can we all agree that we feel Obama would be catastrophic as US President?

If that's true, there is no "R" or "D" to describe us. Just "American".

Cheers,
Victoria

198

I would like to add that it seems that McCain is already after the PUMA vote.  He's been after Ayers, getting Palin out there more, and constantly talking about reaching across the aisle.  It was constantly annoying me in the debate the other night, but after reading some blog posts here it made perfect sense.  He's probably giving up on the hard right people, and going after the moderate wing, which is easier for him to get, given his policy views.

And he's also been pressing the "I disagreed with Bush this many times" meme a lot, too.  Once again, it was annoying to me, but now with a little outside influence, that stance makes perfect sense.

Great post, ace, and great comments, all.  Welcome PUMAs, you are most welcome here!

199 I think that JimD is mostly right in that 75% of the women voting for Obama are, in essence, voting against McCain's stance on abortion. They might not say "abortion," they might phrase it as women's rights, which is the same thing.

200

~ Freddie/Fannie: It's the economy, stupid!

~ ACORN?The Chicago way: It's the fraud, stupid!

~ Ayers/Wright: It's the lying and shadiness, stupid!

They're all good, but not pithy. "It's the economy, stupid" worked because it was short, snappy and addressed the underlying problem in 1992.

My smartypants suggestion?

"It' the arugula, stupid"

201 Maybe if John McCain spoke to PUMAs directly,  actually addressed them as such, to let us know that he is aware of our existence.  Obama doesn't seem the type to speak directly to Clinton supporters.  I haven't forgotten he doesn't need us.  That kind of acknowledgement would be impressive.

202

Well, FWIW, I’m not really a PUMA. I’m a feminist and a Democrat, but I was planning to vote for McCain instead of Obama if Clinton lost the Dem primary long before any of the stuff that irritated Clinton supporters so much about the Obama campaign even happened. And that’s because I’m a national security voter for the Presidential election, and also because I’ve gradually become more “conservative” (or probably libertarian really) on economic issues as I’ve gotten older. So the thought of voting for a Republican for President does not make me break out in hives, and I’ve done it before. I was happy about the Palin pick for VP, particularly after seeing Clinton treated so badly in the primary, but that was just a bonus for me, not a deal-changer.

 

I’m pro-choice, but I decided a while ago that I wasn’t going to be held hostage to Roe in the Presidential election anymore. We’ve perpetually been told that Roe would be overturned by the next Republican Supreme Court appointee, and it just keeps not happening. I think it’s just a big scam designed to turn out voters and raise funds, for both parties.

 

I don’t actually hate Obama, though. I live in his district and have voted for him many times, and would do so again, for anything but President. My view on him is that’s he’s much more liberal than he’s been presenting himself in the campaign, which has always been just fine and dandy for Hyde Park (he’s representative of his constituents, alright) but would be terrible for the country.

 

I think that might be key for persuading centrist undecideds. McCain can make a plausible argument for being a centrist on some issues, or at least for addressing issues individually rather than by party lines, which is very appealling to independents I think. It IS possible to sell this substantively instead of just saying “maverick” over and over again, and that’s what the McCain campaign should be doing. At the same time, go through Obama’s record in the Illinois State Senate, point out all the liberal positions he’s taken, go back through his public statements from before the Presidential campaign, etc. He’s campaigning as a moderate for a reason, because he knows independent and centrist voters might be uncomfortable with his real views and that he probably couldn’t win if they really knew what they were.

 

I’m pretty meh on the Ayers/Wright/Pfleger stuff, personally. I suppose it IS a kind of shorthand for what Obama’s political milieu actually has been, but within that milieu, Obama has always been seen as a bourgeois liberal, middle-of-the-road kind of guy. I remember his losing campaign against former Black Panther Bobby Rush, in which Rush pretty effectively dismissed him as “not black enough”, very well. The idea that Obama is some kind of Commie Black Liberation Manchurian Candidate, or whatever it is some people are trying to imply about him regarding Ayers, just isn’t so.

203

I don't think we have much in common with a good number of people we're talking about other than the vague populism that threatens to take over the GOP, the fact that they're own personality cult took a torpedo under the water from the Obama up and comers, and the sexists that just want to vote for women.

That is exactly right.

204 Heck - I'm married to a PUMA (damn good cook, too). I assemble the link filled emails and she forwards them out for me. PUMAs rock.

205 I apologize for redundancy if this has already been stated above and I missed it, but under the very real possibility that Obama wins and the dems have both houses with a filibuster proof majority, we WILL NEED to create a minority coalition with moderate dems to try our best to keep the worst excesses of the left under control. Leave aside the traditional republican animosity towards clinton and understand that our ability to compromise (our being both republicans and moderate dems) is about the only thing that can save us from the march towards collectivization.

206 >>>Maybe if John McCain spoke to PUMAs directly,  actually addressed them as such, to let us know that he is aware of our existence.  Obama doesn't seem the type to speak directly to Clinton supporters.  I haven't forgotten he doesn't need us.  That kind of acknowledgement would be impressive.

Mongo, doesn't he have Citizens for McCain which is some kind of outreach? Obviously this is insufficient.  What do you have in mind?

I'm asking,  not arguing.  How do you think he can speak to you directly?  Is there a pac like pumapac.org that you consider a valid representative? Or whom?

I'm sure he would reach out, and I'll tell him how to do it, but how?

207 Senator McCain did speak to them directly, PumaPac has a video of a member at one of the rallies taking the floor, she got a standing ovation and McCain shook her hand and Palin gave her a thumbs up.  She wrote all about the experience and how well she was received.  She also noted how much fun the rally was.  After she was interviewed.  Like I said they attend, do you?

208 I mean, there is not a convenient conference he can come to; so what other method do you think would be helpful?

209 Best thread this year, Ace. Style & substance both, it rocks.

Wow, the PUMAs have answered the invitation big time. Great women one and all, willing to tell us how it is. I am a conservative Republican since '04, having has a Road to Damascus moment or two since '00. I say, if these women want to cross over and give us some help, let's welcome them and give them some room. After all, these are the sane ones, the ones who aren't swooning when The Obamessiah reads some inspirational talking points off a TelePrompter. This election may not have started off as a referendum on the future of America, but it sure has turend into one. If there are some Democrats and Independents, PUMA or not, that want to come back up McCain & Palin, fine by me.

I was suspicious of Obama as this year has gone one, and since the convention he is running fast & loose, and letting us see what he has to offer. I don't want any of it, and I fear for the Republic if he does get real power in his hands. The PUMA people have a right to be angry, what his campaign did to Hillary was underhanded and viccious, the same type of btreatment has been turned on McCain & Palin, and if he gets elected I know what's coming to the rest of us. That, and his followers are breaking new ground in groupthink for me.

Come on over PUMAs. Let's get some good people in the White House for '08, and then we can get to wrok solving our nation's problems like reasonable Americans of differing political affiliation. As for Clinton Vs Palin in '12, may the best woman win!

210 In reality, McCain will disappoint us conservatives more than the PUMAs. We know this, yet we know he is much, MUCH better than BO.

Explain to me how bashing the candidate over and over again helps him get elected? Seriously. Do people really think this is going to help him? Do you do it because you just can't control yourselves? I don't mean to be picking on you, but I don't know how else to get through to people.

My sister use to complain that her friends would bash their boyfriends repeatedly, break up with them, and at a later date, try to fix her up with them, telling her they were great guys. They didn't understand why she refused.

Don't bash the guy and then turn around and try to foist him on someone else. This is no longer a game and we are at the critical point.

211 Ahoy Maties,

What can Republicans do?

Abortion. The Obots throw this one at me all the time and I have no answer.  It used to be the Republicans believed in theory that abortion was not okay, but there was a gentleman's agreement to give lip serice for the extremists while doing nothing about it legislatively.  Now the gloves are off and Republicans seem hell-bent to make abortion illegal to satisify their crackpot fringe. The younger women care about this.

What about it? Are you dudes all virgins when you get married? Are you willing to help your girlfriends stay away from back alley and coat hanger abortions?

The nebuloous feeling that somehow once Obama is in he will assemble a good team and make a good government in spite of himself. Not necessarily for women--I don't think we're on his radar at all--but for the middle class and against the oil interests of the Bush era. In other words, "It's the economy <b>again</b>, stupid."

212 Clintonvoter - what do you think about Raila Odinga? How about Khalid Al-Mansour?

Odinga: http://tinyurl.com/3n4cb4

Mansour: http://tinyurl.com/4ow768

213 dave (#210), I think the site you're looking for is here: everythingsawesome.blogspot.com

214 Nijma, everyone called me an idiot when I said abortion was still an issue. 

215 Absolutely right, jjj.  While not a PUMA, I've found consistently within the PUMAworld a disgust with the easy ride the Obamas have had.  Couple that with the arrogant entitlement they display daily.  I've soul-searched much over the last days.  I was angry and disgusted,too, with the turn of events.  Still am.  I've realized that we can't expect PUMAs or any other group of people to help us if we don't help ourselves.  I've been totally negative on McCain, and that has to stop.  He's got to be MY guy.  We've got to show up to vote, and we've got to convince others that it's essential that they vote, too.  A lot of conservatives want to stay home, at least the ones I talk to.  We can't. 
Welcome PUMAs.  Help us.  It's not about power; it's about our country.

216 Clintonvoter, that's good insight into one PUMA's views.

The only thing I would counsel all the PUMAs in the various Hillblogs, is that you have a tendency to look extremist. Don't believe in things even Republicans realise is bogus. It makes you all look bad and provides fodder for the Obamessians.

E.G.:

The latest thread I read on one forum has the sister of a PUMA (a Republican, she says) saying she's outraged at Obama's "explanation" for not wearing the flag. It was clearly a parody, and has been Snoped. But in the meantime, several no-doubt otherwise logical ladies flung out "How dare he?"s, and "WTF! He's running for President of the US not the world!"s, etc.

I'm not saying it's everyone. But it's enough so that it becomes a cudgel to beat you over with, unnecessarily.

217 Now the gloves are off and Republicans seem hell-bent to make abortion illegal to satisify their crackpot fringe.

You have to understand that being against murder does not crack a pot.

218 Dave - we're realistic about McCain and how his points don't always line up perfectly with ours. If we were to swoon over every word out of his mouth, we'd be as mindless as the Obots. I'd be willing to bet that many of us, most, in fact, would prefer he be more Palin-esque.

And there is a huge difference between pointing out our candidate's flaws and people breaking up with, then getting back together with, their boyfriends. There are literally *millions* of possible boyfriends. Only one alternative to Obama.

McCain ain't perfect, but he's ours.

219

"Specific Question: Obama pays his female staffers 87 cents to every dollar he spends on male workers. McCain pays women $1.04 for every dollar paid to men."

Right there, right goddamn there!  Obama and his staff are so blatantly misogynistic that I hate seeing his lying face and hearing his lying voice every time he pops up on the tv.  There is no doubt in my mind that he despises women, except for the harridanlike Michelle.

 

220

I'm not a PUMA, but I've been reading PUMA sites for months now to gauge their numbers and strength. One of the better PUMA sites is UppityWoman08 .  PUMAS are pissed and highly motivated. And rightly so.

I'm no Clinton fan, but as a woman, I didn't like the way she and her supporters were treated during the primaries. Then they went after Geraldine Ferraro--racist? Realy? And the ugliness now continues with Sarah Palin.

The Dems displayed a clear pattern of plunging knives in the back of any woman who gets in the way of Hollow Plastic Jesus.

PUMAS catch everything and forget nothing. In fact, they're still pissed off over the Jay-Z song 99 Problems being played at an Obama event: "I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one," a reference to Hillary Clinton not lost on any of them.

They don't consider themselves to be new fangled "progressives" but traditional Dems--who actually like our country. They loathe the KosKids/Soros/Dean/Brazille/MSNBC/Campbell Brown Axis. They no longer relate or recognize the current Democrat Party.

PUMAS are smart, highly educated people. That's another thing, they utterly resent being characterized by the media and the Oborg as "down ticket democrats" -- Read dumb, low tech, low information white trash who wouldn't know the difference between a bagel and a blog. Funny since there are now dozens if not hundreds of PUMA sites. Heh.

Oh, and don't think PUMAS have a death grip on the abortion issue. They know this issue is constantly used as a false scare tactic. They don't buy it.

My sense is that PUMAS could be quite important in this election. Clinton got 18 Million votes. PUMAS= Many-Pissed Off-And Voting for McCain/Palin.

Obama needs all of those 18 Million. McCain/Palin only need a fraction.

221 I think McCain should offer Hillary a cabinet position. I doubt she would take it, but it wouldn't hurt. If not that, then agree to support her in a bid to become senate majority leader.

222 Nijma - are you serious? You careen from abortion to oil in service of your nebooolus feelings? Roberts & Alito both refused to join Thomas' last exposition against Roe. And "drill baby drill" is more than an economic issue, it is a security issue - or do you think having Iran, Venezuela and Russia holding the energy card is OK?

223

Actually, I did not find this site because of my distaste for Obama. I found this site thru my distate of Andrew Sullivan. Michelle Malkin had a link to Ace about two months ago. The distate for Obama was a bonus.

    

224 Jim D/Bart et al --
There is no monolithic stance on "abortion" aka "women's rights".
I think that men tend to read this one all wrong.  The femi-nazis do not speak for me, and they do not speak for a lot of women.  It angers me that they presume to.

I would consider myself "pro-choice" , but like most women, with caveats.
I chose life -- When I was 23, I chose to have my daughter -- unplanned -- but would never presume to make that choice for another woman.

Furthermore, I do not believe a McCain/Palin ticket will erode that choice, and that the "Roe vs Wade" hysteria is just fear-mongering.  I have seen no inclination on the part of the SCOTUS to advocate to open up that issue.

Finally, Obama's stance on abortion in my view leaves the "abortion" train and hops right onto the Infanticide train.  It is an extremist view, and quite frankly, disturbs ALOT of moderate women, especially women who are mothers.
This is another issue that we discuss at lunch -- that his chilling, over-the-top abortion views are almost soulless.

As I told the Obamabot who came door-knocking:  if I have to chose between "life" and "infanticide" , then I'll choose life every time.

The Obamabots are also turning off loads of women by insulting us personally -- because I blogged that there is much to admire about Palin, I have been called trailer trash, uneducated, a "low information voter" etc.  I've been told to perform any number of sexual acts....you get the picture.  I now equate the Obama camp with unchecked, hate-filled misogyny.  And some of their women are the worst practitioners.

That is so beyond offensive, and there is no coming back from there.  The Obamaniacs are a lost cause; it is not a political discussion with them, it is an attempt to convert you to their cause and their cult.  Don't even try, just ignore them.

Moderates are capable of being reached out to, especially Blue Dog Democrats and PUMAs.

225

I'm an old-style feminist, and I like Sarah Palin, because she made the hard choice in keeping a Down Syndrome baby.  A lot of other women are like me and respect that.  Just as we respect Hillary's hard work and tenaciousness.  Also, Hillary and Sarah are both tough, in that I don't think Hillary or Sarah would let Imadinnerjacket get away with crap.

Obama was incredibly rude to Hillary druing the primaries, and the misogynistic "liberal" media aided and abetted him.  Giving her the finger, and saying she was likeable enough and so forth. One of his liberal hatchetmen called Sarah a Fluffy bunny the other day.  Damn it, they don't take women seriously.  Take us seriously, please!

 

226 The Obots throw this one at me all the time and I have no answer.

The answer is while this is a litmus test for many on both side, the chances of RvW being overturned is zero to none. Go watch the Lynne de Rothschild tape. Each side uses it to batter the other. It's old.

Are you willing to help your girlfriends stay away from back alley and coat hanger abortions?

I was willing not to take sex so lightly, not to be careless with birth control, and to be prepared to stand by any child of mine, including loving and marrying the mother. I am happily married now. And no, we were not virgins. Obviously, I could not stop a woman from getting an abortion. But, I could make her feel it was not her only choice and that I was not marrying her out of obligation but as an act of commitment to her and our baby.

227 #224The Obamabots are also turning off loads of women by insulting us personally -- because I blogged that there is much to admire about Palin, I have been called trailer trash, uneducated, a "low information voter" etc.  I've been told to perform any number of sexual acts....you get the picture.  I now equate the Obama camp with unchecked, hate-filled misogyny.  And some of their women are the worst practitioners.

To those of us who remember President Bill Clinton's tenure, this isn't new though. I realise I am in danger of angering PUMAs (who I like), but feminists were silent about condemning his using women for sexual gratification. When Lewinsky was going to be railroaded as a nut with a Clinton fixation, few Democrats were outraged. Thank God for that blue dress, eh?

Fact is, the same people are now covering up for another hero, a better hero in their minds. They are free to hate the Clintons, probably as expiation for their enabling behaviour in the past.

228 um, let's not lose the plot here, guys. 

229

"Now the gloves are off and Republicans seem hell-bent to make abortion illegal to satisify their crackpot fringe."

When did this happen? Abortion hasn't been mentioned once in any of the debates, Palin has never taken any action in the area, and neither has McCain. McCain would appoint "moderate" judges as best, based on his voting record.

The Dems have used this attack to beat women over the head every election year. Republicans had 6 years of total control with a socially conservative president and did zero on the issue. Don't let the fear mongering work.

230

Some of the PUMA's indicate that the Ayers issue has traction. Could Republicans (at least as a start) in the House and the Senate (and whatever Democrats want to join in) sign pledges to the following:

"I have not attended and will not attend a fund raiser in the home of a terrorist."

Republicans can challenge their Democratic rivals to sign such a pledge. I would think both candidates would sign else they would be in for a wicked negative TV ad.

Bill O'Reilly or Hannity could keep a running tally of congress person's willing to sign such a statement to underscore the point that no matter what lies he tells now, Barack Obama can never truthfully sign such a statement.

It points out an absurdly low hurdle that most Americans would agree with. Yet Barack Obama can' t clear it.

231

YOU OWE ME A NEW MONITOR!!!!

Posted by: Old Hippie Vet at October 10, 2008 04:44 PM (dzE9C)

 

 

Damnit, Old Hippie Vet, I just got through replacing that one!! 

232 First thing I would do is stop using the "c" word.  Welcome to all PUMA's - we need you.  I have 3 sons and a daughter, all of whom are voting for McCain/Palin.  When I asked my daughter (age 24) why Obama didn't appeal to her, she said that he is such a "poseur" and she's shocked that so many young people who pride themselves on being clever and intuitive have not figured out what a fraud Obama really is.  My children, including my 3 sons, are also horrified at Obama's position regarding the non-treatment of  babies who survive abortions.  Not all young people support those extreme positions.

233

Also, like someone above suggested, get Todd and Sarah out there, unedited, and get Cindy workin' it.  Michelle is so personally unlikeable, unlike Hillary, that having strong women out there can't but help.

And give Hillary a position in the Cabinet.  She's smart, educated, and ready to serve our country.  It's not D or R, it's our country that's at stake right now.

234 #218 Angelem: No one is asking anyone to swoon. I am asking that people not list in every damn post why they dislike/hate McCain but are still voting for him. It’s beyond the time for venting. It’s counter productive. It’s not necessary to vent your feelings for the 100,000x time. All you are doing is dissuading people form voting for the ticket and voting for Obama. It really comes down to maturity, which obviously you and others lack.

235 Great thread.  PUMAs rock.

Thanks for all the good work!

236

I found this site thru my distate of Andrew Sullivan.

Then you are soooo at the right place.

237 213 dave (#210), I think the site you're looking for is here: everythingsawesome.blogspot.com
Posted by: Anonymous at October 10, 2008 05:51 PM (4yauu)

And, here’s the site you’re looking for:
www.presidentobamainagugerationday.org

238 Remember, not all PUMAs are women. In fact, I bet the majority of PUMAs are men. Hillary was pulling in a lot of support from Democratic men, many of whom would get the very short end of the stick from Obama, being all bitter and clingy to their guns and all. It's not all about feminism, you know.

239 Dave 6:01 -- beautifully, beatifully said.  You, sir, are a prize.

240 Ace urged to stay on topic. Hence, a quote:

You guys want to put me some information here? It seems that with all the Republicans and 10% of Democrats, we ought to win; but obviously at the moment we're not getting anywhere near 10% of Democrats or Democrat-leaning independents.

We're screwing up. How and why, and how do we fix this?

McCain has to get tougher, but in an upbeat way. He has run a disaffected campaign, and whose major strategy includes his running-mate to do the heavy-lifting. It's uninspiring to many people to see this unfold.

Frankly, you can't appeal to patriotism in this climate. You have to appeal to dollars and cents.

Use simple, clear language:

"Americans are hurting. Dishonest people made you hurt. We are going to clean up corruption in Washington. We love our country and want to make it better. But we need your vote first."

241 #237: Linkypoo not working. I tried spelling it correctly, too.

242 Ace ... perhaps you should keep this thread at the top ... it might get lost. :-)

243

I have to get in the kitchen and start makin some food for the race tonight but I just wanted to say;

This is a great thread. We have people from both sides of the Great Divide talking together for one purpose, the United States of America.

We will not ever agree on everything people but we agree that our country comes first.

The few idiots that are posting their negative crap here and bouncing off the walls are just that, IDIOTS. Do not pay attention to them. They have not changed their bong water in years and it shows.

 

 

 

 

244 Ushie, They keep running that damn "equal pay" Obama commercial in Virginia and it makes my blood boil. I don't understand why the right isn't hitting back with the survey that showed Obama pays his female staff less than McCain and has less women in top positions. Actions speak louder than words. And Obama needs to be called out for not walking it like he talks it. He only pays lip service to women's issues. Any woman voting for Obama because he is pro women's rights is not paying attention.

245

Does no one get what I'm doing here?  Am I doomed to be an unappreciated genius?  Does my blazing intellect separate me from my fellow man, or as I call them, drooling potato-shaped subcreatures?

 

Waitaminnit, Ace- it's your moronblog, and I for... hold on. What is this strange growth on my torso? It looks like ...a potato sprout?!?

246 As someone surrounded by PUMAs and a "Lib Poser" (in order to be employed and have friends) - there's nothing you can do other than lose Palin.

They were totally on board and thinking of voting McCain until that move. It's over - they won't vote R with her on the ticket.

Sorry to say - I love Palin but she is uniformly hated among SE PA "reagan dems" and middle-class women.
Posted by: BlackOrchid at October 10, 2008 04:00 PM (8n8Ar)

As a lifelong concerned moderate PUMA....

247 @220

Funny since there are now dozens if not hundreds of PUMA sites.

sounds like the makings of a pretty large network. Are the PUMA sites linking the Youtube vids  on Ayers /Wright/Rezko ?

248 Not a PUMA, but I used to lean left and now consider myself firmly in the middle (pro-choice, pro-gun, anti-stupidity).  There's a lot of comments to read here and I haven't gotten through all of it before posting, so please excuse any repeats.

1. Emphasize Palin's libertarianism over conservatism.  Point out that she (as well as McCain) has never pushed any anti-abortion views into her administration.  Be sure to debunk even the "silly" or "stupid" rumors that can be perceived as anti-female, i.e. charging for rape kits.  That one is STILL going.

2. Highlight Sarah as the tough, accomplished woman she is.  I know they're trying but still McCain is being called the sexist.  Run a commercial asking if choosing a woman who's forged her own career path on her own merits and taken on bigger dogs and won is somehow sexist, or if a man who dismisses female reporters as "sweeties" and his running mate who commented on Palin's attractiveness really is the more feminist choice.  Answer: No!

3. Promote the campaign pay disparity.  Of course it's damn dirty statistics that don't tell the whole story, but it's a good sound bite, and still true.  Probably better to hit that one virally, like through an email campaign, its not enough to stand on its own and don't want to turn away any undecided guys who want to get sniffy over reverse sexism, real or perceived.

4. Hit Obama on Wright.  The left is trying to make Palin's religious views sound extreme.  Show them what extreme is and which candidate soaked it in for 20 years.  It's hypocritical to whine about Palin's religion and not Obama's, and there has to be a way to show the distinction without attacking the viewer.

5. Continue showing Palin's family and how she, as an accomplished professional woman, is managing both her family and work life.  She's living the feminist ideal--the REAL one, not the bullshit the left tries to push.  Yes, there are problems (illness, teen pregnancy) but they are a strong family no matter what.  That resonates.  Furthermore Todd Palin taps into the romantic ideal: a strong manly man devoted to his strong yet feminine woman.  Show them together!  Don't turn Todd into Mr Metrosexual, keep him rugged and wild yet willing to change diapers.  Don't dress him in expensive suits or haircuts, but let him be as natural as possible.  Tape him after managing to "catch him at work" with something heavy slung over his shoulder and the snowmobile and wilderness behind him, saying how proud he is of his wife.

Maybe all of this seems obvious, but McCain isn't on the ball.  Of course he's the candidate, but Palin is the draw.  She's the added value!  Use her, she's game and up to the challenge!  Every open attack on her by the left makes the ticket stronger.  Force them into the attack, and be prepared for the parry, whether it's a "God love ya" moment or raised-eyebrow silence.

249 It’s beyond the time for venting. It’s counter productive. It’s not necessary to vent your feelings for the 100,000x time.

Posted by: dave at October 10, 2008 06:08 PM (pKT9T)

Well said Dave.

Please don't turn Ace's back yard into Hot Air _{(or i'll have nowhere else to go...sniff).}

There is no greater common ground than love of Country.

PS

Been here for almost 4 years and this one one of the best (serious) threads I've seen.

250 @242 Ace ... perhaps you should keep this thread at the top ... it might get lost. :-)

yes , bump please.

251 And give Hillary a position in the Cabinet. She's smart, educated, and ready to serve our country. It's not D or R, it's our country that's at stake right now.

Posted by: ushie at October 10, 2008 06:08 PM (8nB5X)

I prefer Hillary as Senate Majority Leader

252 Victoria, I agree -- McCain/Palin has NOT made the case with the majority of voters about how they are going to clean up this mess.

People ARE fed up with the corruption in Washington -- and want answers, and accountability.  The fact that Barney Frank is convening hearings on FFM is beyond outrageous.

The housing mess -- you need a clear, coherent plan that is not going to reward people with no income buying houses they can't afford.  There are lots of Americans who got caught in this mess who are good, decent people who can pay their bills. 

I don't want to threadjack, but McCain-Palin are not doing ANYTHING to address the real hurt and pain our military families are in right now with this housing crisis.  Our military families have been through a lot, and the issue of military families being trapped in this housing meltdown is an important one, and should be addressed.  The majority of these families are responsible and did not get involved with the subprime mess, but it is affecting them because they can not sell or lease but are on mandatory orders to move.  Offering the military a temporary relo buyout package like other federal civil servants would be a good first step to unfreezing the markets in some areas that have a heavy military presence.  McCain took a big hit in many military communities because he voted against the new GI Bill, and there is a lot of anger in the military community that he assumes he has their vote.  He doesn't.

253 /Sock puppet off..

254

I don't count as PUMA because my evolution from life long (and loud-mouthed) Democrat to registered Republican has occurred over the last nine years or so. I actually prefer to say that I've gone from bleeding heart liberal to right-wing crackpot but that's just semantics. I was a fervent Clinton supporter (volunteered on both campaigns) but I was so disillusioned by the lies in that Administration that I couldn't bring myself to vote for Gore in 2000. I voted for Bush but told anyone who asked (most especially my-to-the-right-of-Attila-the-Hun family) that I had voted for Nadar ... eh, it took me a while to come out of the closet. Over time, the hypocrisy of the left made it a lot easier to admit I was coming over to the 'darkside' and now I'm a proud right-wing crackpot.

I honestly believe that hammering on that hypocrisy is the way to winning over the undecided’s. I sent an email back in September to a number of reasonable, respectful liberal friends (all women) and was gratified by the response. Specifically I pointed out the failure of the MSM or any feminist organization to stand up and denounce the vile, hateful imagery of rape directed at Sarah Palin. Sad to say, I was able point to three incidents without even having to break a sweat (Margaret Cho, Sandra Bernhardt and Micheal Seitzman). If rape isn't a feminist/liberal issue, what the hell is? Would a male candidate ever be subject to such unchallenged bile? I pointed out that amongst all the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth invective directed at President Bush over the last eight years, I'd yet to see a single example advocating his gang rape.

If I hadn't been convinced before that the liberal ideology was a sham, this would have done it and I think examples like this resonate with the undecided’s. Unfortunately, there are many, many examples of this type of sham being perpetuated by the current leadership of the Democratic party.

 

255 I think picking Palin was a brilliant, bold move by McCain. And I don't know one PUMA who considers her a deal breaker. The only people I know who hate Palin are the obots. And I think they hate her because she scares them.

256 VERY late to this party, but........I think this one of THE most interesting threads I have read in quite some time. I am a mid-40s, retired Army vet and consider myself a conservative. I think its great to read the serious posters here because to be honest I have not been able to bring myself to speak with a liberal in quite some time. This is because I can't seem to find one who won't resort to calling me some sort of name. Anyway, specifically, for poster #126, I work for a defense contractor and my boss is a GAY, BLACK Democrat male- BTW, I love him to pieces! I think you are mistaken when it comes to the gay thing. I believe the majority of us don't really care one way or the other about what people do behind closed doors, but the crap that occurs in the streets of San Fran is WAY over the top. I wouldn't want to see those types of displays by anyone....Just my opinion...again, this has been fascinating to read and I appreciate any input from the PUMAs. And thanks, Ace, for hosting.

257 I'm an old-style feminist, and I like Sarah Palin, because she made the hard choice in keeping a Down Syndrome baby. A lot of other women are like me and respect that. Just as we respect Hillary's hard work and tenaciousness. Also, Hillary and Sarah are both tough, in that I don't think Hillary or Sarah would let Imadinnerjacket get away with crap.

Obama was incredibly rude to Hillary druing the primaries, and the misogynistic "liberal" media aided and abetted him. Giving her the finger, and saying she was likeable enough and so forth. One of his liberal hatchetmen called Sarah a Fluffy bunny the other day. Damn it, they don't take women seriously. Take us seriously, please!



Posted by: ushie at October 10, 2008 05:59 PM (8nB5X)

ACE, or McCain staffers--this is what you want to highlight. The 99 problems but a bitch ain' t on of them, the giving Hillary the finger, and yes, now the fluffy bunny. GRRRRR

258 214 Nijma, everyone called me an idiot when I said abortion was still an issue. 

Posted by: JimD at October 10, 2008 05:52 PM (j/wD+)

You are an idiot. And no, you didn't say abortion was still an issue.  You came into a thread that invited PUMAs to share their thoughts and fucking asserted for them what their opinions were.

I'm late to this conversation but no PUMA woman will vote for a pro life candidate.
Posted by: JimD

That's what you said. Bravo, smart guy. You just presumed to speak for all of them. If you're not astroturfing, your comment had exactly the same effect as if you were.

Fucking clown. Get your head out of your ass.

259 I agree that McCain needs to reach out and recognize Hillary and make it clear that she will have a place in his admin, he looks forward to working with her, etc etc.  He needs to make it clear he respects her, and feels that she has something to bring to the table and contribute to the big, tent, "country first" administration.

260 I just want to note that the regulars may be underestimating our co-coalitioners, the PUMAs and blue dogs. The whole point is, after all, to point out what McCain's doing wrong and how to fix it. Being happy awesome doesn't further that.

261 Wow, Dave. I don't recall calling you names.

262 I love the idea of running ads about the pay disparity between men and women among Obama's staff.

Someone mentioned that actions speak louder than words.  This should be the tagline of the ad and a major theme of the McCain campaign.

Cause when it boils down to it, all Obama really has is talk.

263 OMG, rightwingprof ... you are so right. Don't get me wrong, I do love Michelle but she does whine, gripe, bitch and moan a lot about McCain. I post as nativeaz08 on her site and told them to STFU. I was pleasantly surprised to see her blog filled with mostly anti-Obama/ACORN threads today. Haven't been over in awhile ... Yep, still looks like anti-Obama threads. Anyway, I feel more at home here and on other blogs who bash Obama left and right. 25 days to go people. No time to waste blasting McCain and Republicans. We can do that when they get in office.

264

Ok warden, perhaps I over stated the importance of the abortion issue in that hasty post.  Will you now get over your obsession with my ass?

265

WOW! Lot's of great comments and people!

Not a PUMA - but admire you all! WELCOME PUMAs!

I'm a conservative who loves her country and Ace is absolutley right to be asking these questions. This is a lot like the economic crisis, as far as it's really beyond partisan rhetoric now. We are talking about not only the hi-jacking of the Democratic Party, but the near hi-jacking of the Office of The Presidency by a Socialist/Maoist wolf in sheep's clothing. Yes, people have a right to be of whatevever political persuasion they choose. That's Amercia! What is NOT acceptable IS LYING about who you are, what you believe and presenting yourself as somone who you aren't and never will be just to get into office.

Working together is about our country, our future and this is what we expect McCain/Palin to do - work with good people on both sides. If it's good for them, it's good for us.

ACE - I left a long comment at the Fox News Lied post, I hope you read it and that it might help.

266 I'm a cross between a PUMA and a lizard (LGF.)
I am glad we're having this getting-to-know-you conversation because if Obama becomes president we're going to have to join together in the resistance. I was a centrist democrat (now re-registered independent) who voted for Hillary in the primary to stop Obama, not out of enthusiasm for her. I'm not crazy about McCain but either Hillary or McCain would be a lot better for the country than Obama.
I am pro choice on abortion but will be voting McCain/Palin because I don't think abortion is the most important issue in this election. The wackos who have taken over the democratic party don't see Islamic terrorism as a threat and aren't concerned about a nuclear Iran. Just one example of the dangers of an Obama presidency.

267 250 @242 Ace ... perhaps you should keep this thread at the top ... it might get lost. :-)

yes , bump please.

I agree . . .  this is the one of the best and most crucially important topics I've seen blogged on in a very long time!

268 I just went over to uppitywoman08 and invited some PUMAs over.

I really think all of us morons should visit some pro-Hillary blogs and invite them here to hang out and help us coordinate.

I think we can do this without being fakes and suck ups. I'm not a Hillary fan - I'll be up front about that - but if it came down to a race between her and Obama I'd work my ass off to get her elected.

269

Yeh, Ace, bump the PUMAs!

Oh wait, that came out...eh, about right for this site.

270 Gay

271 I've told this story before but I knew a BIG hillary supporter.  During the primaries he complained about media bias.  I had a grin on my face -- I couldn't help it -- and I said, "I'm sorry, but welcome to being a Republican."

"No this is worse," he said. "You have no idea how much the media covers up for Obama and tears down his opponent."

"I think  I have an idea," I said.  "We've had the same thing for 40 years."

Well, I can now officially say:

He was right.  I  mean, yes, I was right about "welcome to being a Republican," but on the score of "No you have no idea how bad it is," he was right.

I kinda expected it -- I could see the crap they were pulling with Hillary, only once asking obama about  Ayers at a single debate with no follow-ups, ever -- but I figured... I don't know.   I don't know what I figured.  I thought this would be a normal media bias year.

I was wrong.

272

209 makes the point that 2012 could see a Clinton v. Palin race. We all know that, but has it been emphasized how important a milestone such a race would be? Does that resonate?

Also, I agree with the people who are asking, where the hell is Todd Palin?

273 whoops, had on my michael scott sockpuppet.

274 >>>Also, I agree with the people who are asking, where the hell is Todd Palin?

Raising his child with its mother, Bristol.

275

I'm late to this conversation but no PUMA woman will vote for a pro life candidate.

You are wrong.

Btw..GREAT thread! 

Country First!!

McCain/Palin '08

276 You want to know what PUMAs think? Go to WTKK Boston's web site and listen to Michelle McPhee right now. She's on 7-10 every night of the week. She's a prototypical PUMA and has many PUMA callers.

277 Someone asked about earmarks. I always thought that McCain chose Palin just so as he could get on to PORK.
Mac MUST use a message to CLEAN UP Congress.both Repubs and Dems, that is a message we all can believe in.

F and Fannie mae was like Congress's holy cow ready to be milked at any time, and not allowed to fail ever (the excuse being that it's too big.)
Guess what- in only 3 years in the Senate BO was the 2nd biggest recipient of that largesse. (the first was the cttee chairman)

ECONOMY:
Remember if McCain fumbles a bit on the economy -Palin doesn't. Use her for more than just character attacks on BO. She has experience in cleaning up corruption.

Many Pumas see BO as corrupt and a liar.
Keep on making fun of the bio-pics-single mother on food stamps gets on every Puma's nerves-they KNOW he's LYING.

ps arguing that he's too liberal/left wing doesn't go too far with Dems.
Fraud, Corruption, Lies, Misogyny, Cheating, backers such as Soros, Brez, Pritzker, all his financial advisors, earmarks, CAC and 100 million for the Annenburg educ project wasted on no result but to reinforce his own tactical GOTV groups.... Ayers...Wright..the guy who sent him to Harvard, Rezco and the poor tenants in the cold (that makes Dems shudder).

130 present votes is another classic BO blow-out.
Trashing the Clintons. Trashing those who don't support him as racists. MEDIA BIAS...I agree show media sexism as it relates to Hillary/Palin.
(Pumas are quietly starting to refer to Palin as "our Sarah".)

278

McCain's new mortage plan is the same plan Hillary had talked of through the primary's. Rick Davis has given her credit for it as well.

That is an example of McCain reaching out. Derothschild endorsed him. He has a democratic state legislator who endorsed him(a women, who was for hillary)

Hillary's brother Tony Rodham met with some Carly Fiorina.

McCain has accomplished intelligent women behind him, Fiorina, Pfoetenhour, Meg Whitman, Sarah Palin, and His wife Cindy is an angel in my opinion wit all of the charity work she does around the world she is a nice lady.

279 What I would love to see in next week's debate:

McCain gives a laundry list of Obama's background and associations (heck pull out an index card---who can recall them all?), and then tells Obama to his face:

"If the media had been doing it's job in this election, the American people would be choosing between me and Hillary Clinton on November 4th."

KABOOM!

Game over!

Let's roll!

280

If we do beat obama this election, he will probably run again in 2012. After All he is still a young man. I would be willing to vote for Hillary in the primary if she decides to run in 2012. Missouri has open primaries, so I won't have to stay loyal to one party. I can't say I would vote for her in the general election. It would have to depend on the other nominee.

Since there are a lot of PUMAS here willing to help us, I think its only fair that I help them. I am scared of an obama administration.

281 279--

That would be awesome. It'll never happen, but damn, would it be fantastic.

282 279 is so right!!! I'm sending to McCain camp now.

283 279

That could be a game-changer.  I like it . . .

And, 280, I don't think Obama's presidential aspiration can survive four more years of dedicated people digging and revealing his many sins.  In fact, after checking the links the awesome Kimberly posted earlier today, he very well may not be able to pass the stink test on Nov. 4.

284 Ace,
Can you start a thread for MILFs and GILFs, so we can ask them personal questions?

Hillary looks more like a Republican every day compared to the giant O, at this point I would go back in time and vote for Hillary in the primaries had I been able to foresee what the giant O is really like.

285 CB, I hope and pray you are right.

286 Thanks CB! And where did I get those links? PUMA sites. I love them!!!

287

Warden, I've spent a lot of time at PUMA sites over the past month or two when I've needed a break from conservative McCain bashing.  They are great people and have had a much better grasp on the whole "Country First" thing than most commenters on conservative blogs.  I'd rather hang out at Noqurarterusa than at Malkin's place any day.

 

288 One thing McCain really should do is make his record during Bill Clinton's presidency a major talking point.

Sure, he (and we) had plenty of differences with President Clinton.  But there was common ground, too, for Senator McCain (and for me, too), and he has plenty of examples he can point to of him supporting President Clinton.  (I'm guessing: NAFTA, welfare reform, the Balkan war, etc.)

McCain doesn't even need to phrase it as outreach to Hillary Clinton supporters; he can just talk up his record of bipartisanship.  But do it with good examples from the Clinton years, repeatedly mentioning President Clinton's name.

It's not pandering, it's truth.  And it would resonate well with centrist Democrats who feel disrespected by Obama (and by the rabid anti-Hillary right).

289 GENTLEMEN, and ace

I consider myself a conservative woman, and yet I play bass in a rockband, started a vodka company and promote it "vigorously", I believe in my right to choose but think that right has been disgustingly exploited, I enjoy bob marley , pay my own way, and I happen to REALLY love men....
and I have to tell ya, the PUMAS put some of the wussy ass conservative men on here to shame. they SUPPORT their candidate, put our Country FIRST, and they keep their priorities in order.

Priority #1= OBAMA MUST BE STOPPED. Our Country may never recover from the damage he and his America haters will do.

I have found a kinship with the PUMAS and personally, I think they ROCK!

we should absolutely listen to them and join forces.

COUNTRY FIRST always

290

Great thread. Unquestionably one of the most productive threads Iv'e read here.

Lot's of great comments and information. Not to slight anyone but I thought this comment <Posted by: pfth at October 10, 2008 04:34 PM (BXx2+)>was one of the best as it's something I wish McCain would do as well.

 

 

**Disclaimer, not a PUMA but married to one.

291 I agree with 283 (CB).  This is why they are pulling out all the stops in this election (i.e. the media not hiding bias, voter fraud, etc.).  I think everyone (including Obama himself) realizes that if Obama doesn't win this year, then he's absolutely done politically.

292

Just because obama was such a fucking dickbag.

A near-perfect moniker........

293

I didn't read all of the comments, so apologies if this has been stated already.  I think that the election fraud issue really resonates with these women. 

I'm a grad student at a university in the Chicago area.  Today, I was speaking to a woman on campus --- she is an administrator, not a professor.  I mentioned I was teaching a class on parties and elections.  She got a very sad look on her face, and said this election has really disappointed her.

She said Obama may be a decent guy, but she doesn't trust him.  She called his campaign staff "bullies" and complained that his "guys" stole the nomination from Hillary.  She said this Acorn stuff makes her sick, and that she isn't surprised that Obama's supporters are willing to cheat to win.

I heard something similar from one of my students.  She said that Obama supporters were abusive and insulting to Hillary supporters during the caucus she had attended.  Hillary supporters were called "racists" (gee, what a surprise) and were strong-armed into voting for Obama.

So the Acorn stuff really touches a nerve, in my opinion.

294 This is a really good thread.  I came back to read the rest of it.  Rest of blogosphere (the right esp) needs to linkify.

295

#219:  Michelle is not harridan-like, she IS a harridan.  

One of the reasons I want Mccain to win is to see that ugly face of hers twisted in rage and hatred as The Redeemer gives his concession speech.

I can dream, can't I?

296

And wow, I'm not nearly as cool as Christy  LOL

Anyhow, somebody asked for a link on the Obama 99 Problems thing.  This is from the NY Post:

January 14, 2008 -- PRESIDENTIAL hopeful Barack Obama claims to run a clean campaign, but someone in his camp took a swipe at Hillary Clinton through the candidate's theme song.

As Obama and his wife, Michelle, strolled triumphantly into his victory party in Des Moines, Iowa, on Jan. 3, Jay-Z's "99 Problems" was blaring. In it, Jay raps, "I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one."

Some listeners took it as a not-so-sly reference to Hillary.

"We didn't know he used that," a shocked Clinton spokesperson said.

Obama has no problem admitting he's a rap fan.

297

I didn't read all of the comments, so apologies if this has been stated already.  I think that the election fraud issue really resonates with these women. 

 

No need to apologize, Meezle. Ace asked for your opinion. I personally am glad you gave it. I knew PUMAs and the Blue Dogs were pissed at Obama for treating Hillary like yesterday's tissue, but opinions like yours gives depth to the perception. Thanks to you, and all the other PUMAs, Blue Dog Demos, centerists and so on for stopping here. In all seriousness, this has been one ripping thread, and I've gleaned a lot from it.

298 Me thinks Christy wants a date with Ace ... note how she mentions vodka. It's a trap, Ace. Watch out. LOL.

Ugh. McCain tells supporters not to be afraid of Obama. Hello? What piece of the friggin' puzzle am I missing here???

299

First of all, PUMA started at The Confluence.  Drop by and visit.

Secondly, not all PUMAs are women.  Some are 48-year old grandfathers like me.  Most of us are college educated too.

Most PUMAs are Clinton Democrats.  That's Bill AND Hillary.

What do we want?  Universal health care is #1 on most of our wish lists.

What are our main issues with Obama?  Corruption and false accusations of racism.  Misogyny and sexism.  Inexperience.

Come by the Confluence and discuss it.

300

>> It really comes down to maturity, which obviously you and others lack.

uncalled for

301

awesomekimberly, the McCain bashing thread is over at hotair.com

or michellemalkin.com

302 Welcome, PUMAs!

I'm an independent who often votes Republican, but I love me some Blue Dog Democrats - they're often more fiscally responsible than the Republican porkmeisters who corrupted up the Congress, and they frequently fight harder for their constituents. We need to encourage and support centrist Democrats until they can shake off the left-wing kooks like Pelosi and Obama and take their party back over. After that, we can go back to reasonable arguments about minimum wage and subsidies rather than worrying about full-blown socialism and national disaster.

Go Stephanie Herseth Sandlin!

303

279 - that's a great idea. Actually, if McCain doesn't bring it up during the debate - THAT will be a problem, but I am trusting he will step up to the plate now that he has been hearing from supporters all this week, asking, nay, imploring that he do that - he now knows he has the support to go for it!

And yes, please send the 1st Dude!

I also think if McCain could announce his Secretary of Treasurey (Bush did that regarding Sec of Def - with great success) - that would be good. - keep a clear message on his Tax plan benefits & also easy, clear message about insurance.

And yes! Get that stinkin' ear mark stuff up front & center - wave it like a banner! EVERYONE, well at least everyone not a moon-bat agrees and is highly motivated by this -

304 CK: I don't consider that bashing. I'm just a bit confused at why he is taking that route. He's gotta go out and talk about Obama's shady associations, his ACORN activities, FM/FM, etc.

Considering how the govt has just about f'ked up everything they touch, I cannot get behind universal healthcare, myiq2xu. I do like McCain's $5000 healthcare tax credit.

305 Clinton and McCain could give each other a lot of cover on the voter fraud/vote suppression/Diebold front. A little Mavericky bipartisanship that really would put the country first. How sweet if they came out with a bill in the next week or so.

306

PUMAs are not Blue Dogs.  My Congressman is a Blue Dog (Cardoza, who replaced Condit) and he endorsed Obama.

In fact, we tend to be very liberal.

Yes, I said "liberal" 

LIBERAL!

BOO!

307 I'm a PUMA and I wish the Repubs would stress the divided govt argument more. Of course, Clinton is the one I would prefer to be in charge, but if it's up to having Obama or McCain, then I'd prefer McCain. The thought of Obama having unchecked powers is terrifying. He is as inexperienced as Palin, yet his supporters feel it's ok to shudder at the thought of Palin in office. I find that ironic. I'd rather have a Governor who has an actual track record rather than a Senator whose main achievement in the Senate is his "sweeping" ethics reform...aka lobbyists can't have meals paid for them unless they're standing. Woohoo! Whenever the Dems attack Palin, the Repubs must hammer away at how much she's achieved in 2 years compared to how little Obama has achieved in office. Then they need to directly question why the Dems seem so obsessed with Palin who is the VP. The Rs need to be able to rattle off ALL of McCain's major achievements in the Senate then remind the viewers that the JM-SP team complement each other since they combine legislative & executive experience and both have gone after their own parties for the good of the country.  Clinton supporters are very keen on the experience issue since most of us feel BO is not experienced enough. The Rs need to hammer away at how little he's done...he's always promising things and talking about how bad things are but he's never done anything to make things better.

In addition, the more that the Dems attack Palin in personal & sexist manners, the more it reminds us of how Clinton was treated in the primary. We PUMAs are very happy that the Rs are standing up for Palin. One other thing that I think the Rs should hammer away at when Dem pundits talk about how women won't vote for Palin is to remind them that women are not a monolith and that many women are conservative and this is the first female leader on a presidential stage that they can relate to. Just as liberal women were awakened and energized by Clinton's candidacy, so are conservative women awakened and energized by Palin's VP candidacy. Ask the Dems why is it that only liberal women count. I'm a socially liberal/fiscally conservative female and I'm enraged at how Obama supporters have treated Clinton, a fellow Dem, and now Palin, a very accomplished young woman who is a feminist dream...brilliantly balancing family & career. Although I don't agree with her on all her positions, I truly admire Palin.

On the economy, McCain needs to stay positive even when attacking. He needs to energize people to see this as an opportunity for Americans to once again prove their resilency and innovative spirit in times of crisis. He needs to sublty point out that Obama always complains about how bad the US is and this pessimism is not what we need right now. Yes, we're in a recession, but the only way we'll get out of it is if we work hard and prove to the world that we don't sit around twiddling our thumbs while griping at who is to blame. McCain needs to be a leader in this crisis and figure out a way to get Americans looking to the future rather than the past.  All Obama has to offer is to say how bad Bush & the Rs was...but the Repubs need to start pointing out how little Obama has done for his state. But there needs to be specifics, not just vague "look at our records." People are too lazy to look stuff up so McCain's team needs to be out there with the facts.

308 #299 -myiq2xu --
I think the aim of this thread is to try and find common ground between moderates of all strips, to unite together, to put country first and rally together to ensure that Obama doesn't make it to 1600 Penn Ave.

I have been to your blog and appreciate the work Riverdaughter has done on Barack's real history at Harvard, following the money/corruption, etc.

However....can't go over there with the cheerleadering about gay marriage in CT, and the "universal health care" mantra.

As a former Canadian, I will never, ever, EVER bite off on any version of a government run, mandated health care system. Not. Ever.

I agree that health care needs to be reformed, and the insurance co's need to be better policed and the system needs to be fairer, but, I also feel that everyone should be required to have private-market insurance with at a minimum, bare bones coverage -- much like we insist that to drive, you must have a minimum amount of auto insurance.  Too many of my daughter's college age friends choose to NOT get health insurance because they don't want to spend the money.  Having a larger pool of healthy people will lower premiums for all, and more choice, if it is done correctly.

309 "If the media had been doing it's job in this election, the American people would be choosing between me and Hillary Clinton on November 4th."

Actually, it would be Fred and Hillary.

310

awesomekimberly, the McCain bashing thread is over at hotair.com

or michellemalkin.com

And the Palin bashing thread is over at NRO.  Or Kos.

311 I always date bait with the "endless supply of vodka" line...gets em everytime LOL

Since our media is D-E-A-D, I too agree that McCain MUST call Obama out on ALL of his corrupt associates and ACORN lies at the debate. he will have a huge captured audience and its do or die time.

reading the LIST would be pretty awesome, and painfully affective.

I also think he could read another list...the list of things that Obama has YET to disclose or release:
1. OccidentalCollege records -- Not released
2. ColumbiaCollege records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- 'not available'
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- 'not available'
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
13.Your Record of baptism -- Not released or 'not available'
14. Your Illinois State Senate records -- 'not available'

SHAZAMMM!

312 I believe PUMAs represent all areas of the Democrat party, including some Republicans, as shown here on this thread. However, it doesn't matter as long as we all have ONE thing in common and that is defeating the extremely unqualified, anti-woman, card carrying radical socialist/communist, okay to be pals with unrepentant radical terrorists, Barak Hussein Billy Ray Obama.

313 myiq2xu:

I'll head over there later, but if you are still around, do you have any ideas as to areas of potential overlap between our approaches to healthcare? Or thoughts as to where we can reach compromise. Mandatory participation is a non-starter for me, but to save the Republic I am willing to give everything else a fair look.

Maybe we should hold some kind of blogathon to retire Hillary's campaign debt (as a show of good faith). I think the MSM would have to cover that.

314

PUMAPrincess:

I'm not here trying to win converts to liberalism.  The question was asked how to win PUMA votes.

Actually, most PUMAs in the swing states will be voting for McCain/Palin already.

The PUMA goal is Hillary in 2012

315 293

I didn't read all of the comments, so apologies if this has been stated already.  I think that the election fraud issue really resonates with these women. 

___________

Yes, the election fraud and Obama's ACORN connections during the primary are very important to us. Yesterday, CNN was doing an expose on ACORN and in one district 1/2 of the registrations were obvious fakes. And ACORN is under investigation for fraud in many states so who knows how many fakes are out there.

What really angered me is when I learned from CNN that Obama gave $800,000 to ACORN during the primary to get out the vote. Then Obama's campaign's response was that they haven't given any $$ to ACORN for the general. I almost exploded when I heard that response...sure, cheat your way to beat Clinton in the primary...I guess that's perfectly ethical!!

If there is any real evidence that Obama cheated during the primary, then I hope McCain hammers BO with it. 

When Obama campaign slimed Bill & Hillary Clinton as racists over the benign "MLK" & "fairy tale" remarks, then I lost all respect for Obama and his campaign and his supporters have been accusing anyone who doesn't support BO as a racist. I'm getting very sick of his hypocrisy.

316 mrobvious
a McCain/Clinton anti voter fraud bill is GENIUS!!!!!!!!

317 I found your post from a comment over at Uppitywomanblog@wordpress. I'm a PUMA who initially was going to hold my nose and vote McCain. The more I got to see him, the more I read AND the more my former party became the New Socialist Party, the more I liked McCain. Initially being for Hillary I was thrilled when he chose Gov Palin and thereafter became a modest financial contributor something I never had any intention to do. So, IMHO McCain's done a lot right.
I'm in NYC (Obama town) and surrounded by former Hillary voters who are now for Obama. As the weeks have gone by since the primary I have watched the most disturbing transformation in these people. They believe EVERYTHING out of Obama's lying mouth. It's the media - these people focus on the usual networks for their news, primarily MS/NBC ABC, and CNN and refuse to believe anything written elsewhere. That's McCain's largest problem. Obama has all the MSM behind him - and they clean his dirty laundry every day. Voters aren't getting the truth.

318 I'd like to apologize to the female PUMA's. During the primaries, when you were calling Obama's campaign sexist, I assumed that you were covering up for your candidate's flaws, like the way the Obama campaign is now accusing his opponents of racism.

After the firestorm of lies that were told about Sarah, I can see that you were right and I was wrong.

In my defense, I never paid any attention to the Democratic causes and primaries, because I knew I wouldn't vote for any of the candidates, even if a candidate I hated took the Republican nomination...say Huckabee or McCain. So I never knew about 99 problems, the finger, etc.

Right now, we have a common enemy: Senator Obama and his brand of transnational socialism. If we drag Senator McCain across the finish line in November, you'll prepare for Senator Clinton's 2012 campaign, and we'll prepare for Vice President Palin's. Until then, let's work together to keep Senator Obama from being elected President of the World. Welcome to the movement. (Though with all the work you've been doing, perhaps you should be welcoming us.)

"But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."

319

Kimberly:

I don't believe Obama is a "card carrying radical socialist/communist" or anything else.

The only thing Obama believes in is Obama.

When he runs around with socialists, he's one of them.  When he is talking to Republicans he loves Ronnie Raygun.

He's Obamachameleon

320 And yes, I agree that the PUMA goal is for McCain to be Prez so Clinton can run in 2012.

However, I also believe that Obama will be dangerous because he is way too inexperienced to be in charge of some of the greatest crises ever -- we're going into recession & we have many foreign enemies waiting for one wrong slip-up. I don't feel that BO is strong enough to defend American interests. I'm not crazy about McCain and I'm very angry at the fact that we don't have Clinton as the Dem nominee, but I do believe that McCain will be better than Obama and I have no doubt that he'll do everything in his power to protect American interests. Also I truly believe that McCain will be more willing to listen to Clinton and other Dems when working on bipartisan issues.

I like the divided govt aspect of a McCain presidency.  The thought of BO having unchecked powers is terrifying to me. This time of crisis is not time for playing fantasy king.

321 Totally agree with your post, Christy, including the vodka line ... gotta use that some time.

Where are all those records and why is Obama unwilling to release them? That is the question the MSM should be asking.

Of course, the reason why the MSM have not properly vetted BO is they already have the dirt on him. They're just waiting until they get him elected and then BAM, they will release it. After all, the MSM does not care about the US. They only care about their ratings.

freyjanyc: have you read lynettelong's blog??

322 Obamachameleon is RIGHT! perfect.
I cant even isten to him speak, the man tells LIES like its his business...I GUARANTEE you that HE doesnt even know his positions anymore...
he only SAYS WHAT YOU WANT HIM TO SAY...period.

scary

323 myiq2xu: Actually a PUMA dug up some information, as well as conservative bloggers, that BO was/is a member of the New Party. He is definitely a Obamachameleon, aka fake bastard.

Also, it will be Clinton against Palin in 2012! What a wonderful contest that will be!! :-) If BO is running in the Dem primary that year, I will do everything in my power to see that Hillary is the nominee, not him again.

324 And for the conservatives not crazy about McCain, they just have to realize that he's far better than Obama with unchecked powers.  Obama has done a 180 on just about every position he has, so we have no idea where he really stands. At least we know that McCain is a moderate and most Americans are moderate.

325 I believe Conservatives came on board when McCain chose Palin. It was a brilliant pick. Obama and team had thick files on the other choices and were totally blindsided by the Palin pick. Heh. Personally, the conservatives who will not vote for McCain in November are the ones who will scream the loudest at how BO is running the country ... should he get in, that is.

326 And for the conservatives not crazy about McCain, they just have to realize that he's far better than Obama with unchecked powers.

The real question is whether Obama with an in-line Congress will reveal something to the rest of the country that we already know, or whether it'll just be a plain disaster.

327 Thank you, Christy. I'll repost it in the new thread.

328 I'm a conservative, but am trying to also understand this stuff, and the BO appeal with women baffles me. Good post Ace. THANKS.

A woman I know very well , has been disgusted with Bush for years and skeptical about McCain, but is now very favorable toward McCain after seeing him on -- are you ready for this one -- Rachel Ray's talk show.  She could finally see him with   skin on with his wife and talking BBQ etc.  McCain might have gained appeal  by some women after his appearance on The View, too.  I don't watch these shows, but he sure put up with their crap like a gentleman and that goes far with many women. Something might be happening very slowly  McCain may be doing a lot of things right and we just aren't seeing results yet.  Slow and systemic may win this race.  I agree that it isn't becoming of us supporters to criticize McCain too much.

329

I would like to see a viral video that emphasizes Obama's contempt for women, with examples of how such contempt developed:  Pregnant single mother, father who abused women, white grandfather who berated his wife as a fool and a bigot in front of his grandson, mother's marriage to a drunken Muslim, early childhood immersion in misogynistic Islamic lifestyle, mentor relationship with a Communist pedophile, sharing apartment with yet another Muslim activist, close relationship with a pastor who leaves his wife for a woman he steals from her husband during marriage counseling, friendship with Bill Ayres (who reportedly coerced a female friend to have sex with his black roommate), etc., etc., etc.

How can anybody think Obama is anything but a misogynistic sociopath?

330 Okay...shocker here..ex-democrat.  Like many, it happened started happening somewhere about October 2001, right after we invaded Afghanistan and I realized that the Democrat party was going to use what should have been our shared effort to destroy those that attacked us as a political wedge to start trying to destroy Pres. Bush and campaign for the next election: on our soldiers' blood.

Yes...I did vote for Clinton twice and even voted for Gore in 2000 (before he became really crazy environmental stuff...no time to expand, I think the environment has always been important to conserve and husband for generations, but not to the point of killing our industries and economy). 

I digress, but it was that wedge and the enumerable people trying to tell me why these people "hated America" that made me angry and made me question what exactly was going on with the party.  My family is almost entirely Democrats.  Raised Democrats.  Vote straight ticket.  Right now they are in the "angry" phase.  They hated Bush, are scared that McCain is another one, but really dislike Obama. "Poser" is the key here.  However, as I noted, they are in the "angry phase": they don't want to vote for anyone.  So, what can McCain do?

not be a Poser.  These people are angry.  They want a reason or place to direct their anger.  mcCain is getting lumped in with everyone else.  He has not made enough hay about the responsibility for the pain on wall street directly related to congressional Democrats.  That also makes my Democrat family "angry", but they see ALL of CONGRESS as responsible.

Back to my issues: as a woman, the "equal pay" thing is important.  And, for whoever up there wrote the bilge about the difference between "truck drivers and secretaries", let me clarify this situation for you.  There are many women like me who are way past "secretary".  I manage 10 mil in A/R, $5 mil in monthly revenue and 34 clinics.  Almost all of which are ran directly by women.  I worked very hard to get there.  Yes, it does bother to me to have some guy come in with less years experience, with equal education and discover that person is making much more money than I am.  Fortunately, I have some appreciation for being hired in at a certain market time so I understand why there is some difference, but we aren't talking about a couple thousand dollars here that goes away with taxes.  We are talking about tens of thousands of dollars difference. 

Let me repeat something: I have worked my ass off to get where I am today.  I know there are many women in my field.  In fact, we out number the men 3/1, yet, here we are with the same issues.  So you will forgive me when I tell you that the idea that "equal pay" is some communist front plan for socialization does not resonate with women who get to experience the reality.

We have families.  We have bills.  We are contributing.  We own houses or have mortgages.  We balance the family budget.

And, there it is.  Let me tell you...get back to the "family budget".  How are women going to be better off under McCain/Palin?  Not just as women, but as taxpaying, contributing voters? 

Women were 54% of those voting in 2004.  54%.  They also influence men in their lives.  What do women want?  Their children safe.  Their checkbooks safe.  They like big vehicles because it keeps their children safe and they are willing to pay extra.  But it is a drag on the budget with gasoline and car payments, with food prices going up and the price to send kids to school.

Women helped choose the family home, not just because it was keeping up with the Jones in size and dollars, but because it was in a good neighborhood with good schools, within a certain traveling distance to work.  And, yes, they were looking at the housing market and how that house would have a certain value as a type of safety net against a future with college, or hospital bills or other some other financial disaster.

That has been swept away and they are feeling insecure. 

I will say, of course, that these are just "women's issues", but they appeal across the board.  Men must be extremely worried about being able to keep their family homes, keep their jobs, keep their kids in school. 

Obama is getting support from these people because he is telling them he is going to fix it.  He is going to make sure there are jobs, make sure people have health care and make sure that they don't have to worry about war or anything else.  They can go back to just living their lives. Yes, they may have to pay a little more or not get a tax break, but people are willing to do that if it means less inconvenience.

McCain is not resonating there.  Partly because he is somewhat all over the place.  He is promising this and that, but not putting it together as a whole package of how people can go back to feeling secure.  In many ways, this is worse than 9/11.  I don't mean that to sound shallow or irreverent of that time (particularly since it drove me away from the Democrat party), but people see that we can do something about people who attack us.  We have a military. 

What they feel insecure about is what they can personally do to secure their future.  It feels like it is out of their hands.  They aren't necessarily interested in having the government fix everything, but to LEAD  them with sound  direction on where and how we can fix this. 

Finger pointing is okay.  You need to point out why the other guy's plan doesn't work.  But, it must be accompanied by a coherent package on how the government AND the people can make this thing work and get us back in the right direction.  That is why Palin's "personal responsibility" remarks worked.  Not simply because it is about "small government" or even "fiscal conservatism", but because it started a little idea that people are not without power to make something happen.

Why did Reagan win the Democrats?:  Was it just on security?  No, no, no...He told people to get out there and work for what they want and they can get it.  That was during a really bad economic situation where people are today: feeling like they have no power and tossed about by what "other" people are doing, what the government is doing. 

let me remind why Bush really lost the American people over these long wars: he didn't ask them to get in there and do something, too.  Not anything that seemed worth while and Obama hit on that with the "shopping" remark.  he has hit on that with his entire "yes we can" approach.  He is making people part of the solution.

His solutions suck.  I think it gives government too much power while dressing it up as "people power". 

McCAin is tapping into people's anger over the situation, but he hasn't turned it into a positive future vision of how THE PEOPLE will turn this around and make it happen. 

He is giving people a reason to dislike Obama, but not a reason to follow his lead.  He says he is a leader, now show it by telling people how THEY can make the future happen.  You can't just go around saying "shining city on the hill".  You have to paint the picture of how that shining city happens, who lives there, how they make it work. 

you want to know how to get the PUMA women on board?  Talk about what they have accomplished.  How they are part of the "shining city".  What their contributions are...not just in "shattering the last glass ceiling", but in all the "glass ceilings" that have come before.  They don't just want hand outs, they want to believe they are part of the big picture. 

How are we going to turn the financial crisis around?  We are going to go to work.  Men and women.  We are going to make it happen as we always have. We are going to go back out there and find businesses that are sound to invest in. We are going to build those businesses.  We are going to make sure that people have the opportunity to live the American dream by insuring that they keep their money, aren't taxed into oblivion, have choices in health care, regain the value of their property (because really, most of the property value out there will go up over the long run as the population grows).  We are going to do all the things we have done in the past and they will work.

That is something that both McCain and Palin can do.  Palin can do it best as a real representative of that "dig in and get'er done" attitude.  But, like I said, they have to paint the picture.  Right now, that canvas looks like a really bad Cubist Picasso with the woman's parts all over the place.  Ugly as sin.

It is "all we have to fear is fear itself". 

yes, Americans want to believe in something.  Give them something to believe in.  make them believe in themselves again.  Make them believe that they are America and that is why we can believe in America and our way of life.  Yes, sometimes it's hard, but we have been doing the "hard work" for over 200 years.  WE aren't quitters.  We don't think we need someone to do everything.  We are just looking for the right direction.

It has to be a coherent package, not just some stump speeches with a few catch phrases while throwing out some wild half hatched plans (which is what a lot of this sounds like).

Get out there and fight!

331 PUMA's are not just women, there are a lot of men as well.  Our biggest beef with Obama is his blatant sexism.   A lot of time has passed since the primaries and I think a lot of women have forgotten how bad it was. A refresher course is in order. Find the videos of Obama shooting Hillary the middle finger, his brushing her off his shoes and shoulders, his Annie Oakley and his peiroidcally blue statements, his "you're likeable enough" statement, put them all in an ad, and hit the market iwth is disdain for women. PUMA's aren't just working to defeat Obama himself, we are also fighting to reclaim our party, and to rid it of the extreme far left fanatics, and Dean, Pelosi, Brazille, and Reid.  Lots of PUMA's are out campaigning, and we were the first to raise the alarm on Ayers, ACORN, and Rezko.  As far as our numbers, most estimates are bestween 2 and 5 million.  I suspect more as members of the silent majority.  We're working hard.  But our question to you is where are the Republicans? Cause we are not seeing them anywhere.

332

Ace,

A direct PLEA to PUMA's would be a great start. McCain/Palin need to recongnize the PUMA's publicly and ask for their support. They need to say they know we are out there and they want to work with us. That will open the door to a flood of PUMA's. Most of us simply believe in upholding our constitution and enforcing democracy. Many are slightly left of center and will be easy to capture....so to speak.

 

Good Luck!

PUMA!

333 Wow,
I have read every freaking comment.
They are good. (except for the moron comments and then they are as usual funny)

Welcome PUMAS
and Welcome Moderate Dems.
(like I have anything to say about it)
Thanks Ace.

While I may disagree with many of you (as a conservative christian) I always thought that Hillary was the better alternative.

I am perfectly willing to join hands with my dem counterparts in support of my country. As long as USA is first.

334 One other thing, McCain has to give us some ammunition to use to support HIM.  Its not enough to vote against Obama, we have to give people a reason to vote for Mccain. If he doesn't get a little more coherent in his messages, we don't have any talking points.  One thing I was thinking about is to moblize sthe PUMA's and your supporeters here, to do a phone bank blitz over a weekend, and report the results here.  We can get a better feel for what the population is thinking and doing.  The question is will McCain's camp listen to what our results are, and take it seriously?

335 BARACK OBAMA's ACORN TREE

AWESOME!!!

http://www.gop.com/ObamaAcornTree/

336 It may help you to check out the web site I made.  http://puma-facts.com

337

Ace, I was a Yellow Dog Democrat until this year.  Now, I'm an Independent.  I have no idea what "Democrats" are thinking.  The ones for Obama obviously are not.

This country is more important than any political party.  And anyone who would vote for Obama, in my opinion, is a blithering idiot, or does not love this country with all their heart.

I can tell you what bothers me about Barry.  Mostly importantly, he attended an anti-American church for 20 years, and had Wright for his "moral compass."  That should be enough to have people run screaming in horror.  And all the other rotten things we know about Obama just back up what that association proves:  Barack Obama is unfit for any office, let alone president of the United States.  I would vote for the unprincipled moron George Bush before I'd vote for Barry, and that's saying a lot.  Because George Bush doesn't hate America.  Barack Obama and his hellacious wife do.

I don't think it's Barry's left-leaning tendencies that are the main problem.  The main problem is, his ideology is himself.  He's as much a tool for corporations as he is for leftists or terrorists or whatever.  He just grabs whoever's hand he thinks will pull him forward at the time,  He is unprincipled, like GW, but without the slight bit of conscious that George gained from "becoming a Christian."  (That's in parentheses because I don't think he really knew what that meant, W just knew it helped him stop hitting the bottle so much.)

What's funny is, without a major game changer, we're going to see the Republicans, who stole the last two elections, go head to head with the Chicago thug who is an expert at stealing elections.  Is that ironic or what?  I wished that the Republicans would pay when they handed the country to George Bush.  And now they will pay.  Problem is, the rest of us will, too.

Truthfully, though, I don't think Obama will win.  McCain and the Rove machine are going to open up a can of whoop ass so big that Barry won't be able to keep his Senate seat, let alone anything else.  And that will at least give us a chance to have Senator Clinton try to hash this all out in 2012.

Conscience, compassion, integrity.  That's what I thought Democrats were about, and a lot of them were until this year.  Then they sold out, and I still don't get it, except that there's a lot of racial guilt going around.  You don't solve that by voting an incompetent, arrogant ass into the White House.

I don't know if that was any help at all, but it's what a true Democrat-turned Independent thinks.  Oh, and about McCain and Palin.  McCain is a war hero, and very smart, and independent to a degree.  I think he has some corporate ties, like most politicians.  He has started to hammer BO, which is great.  He should talk more about corporate responsibility.

Sarah Palin is amazingly personable and photogenic.  Both are helping her and McCain tremendously.  She's also smart, but we disagree on many issues.  But I know Palin is going by her principles, and she at least freakin' has some!  Barack Obama does not.  She's doing a good job bringing up all his baggage.

It seems like everything that should disqualify BO in people's minds IS getting out, and it's not making a bit of difference!  But we must remember that the MSM is in the bag for Obama, just as they were for George Bush.  Let's just hope that the outcome is not the same.

338 I think a great one to get not just PUMAS to feel better about voting for McCain, but also bringing more of those undecided dems and independents who might be leaning toward Obama would be if McCain would mention some names of people he would consider for his cabinet, especially if it was a bipartisan list. I know I love the thought of him making Joe Lieberman the Secretary of State and Hillary the Secretary of the Department of Health & Human Services

339 OK, I'm a PUMA.  Always, ALWAYS have voted for Democrats but I can't stand Barack Obama.  I was/am an avid Hillary supporter.  I am on the verge of voting for McCain/Palin, but one thing holds me back and that is health care.  It just really needs to be nationalized guys, since everyone is getting it anyway, but some are getting it for FREE while the rest of us are paying through the roof.  I'm a nurse; every day I see people with cable TV's, cell phones, nice cars but NO HEALTH INSURANCE.  They come in, and get the care (can't be turned away from an ER, the most expensive form of primary care) and then people like me have to pay increasingly outrageous premiums to make up the difference.  I say increase these people's taxes since they won't voluntarily buy their own insurance.  MAKE them pay.  If they can afford a cell phone, they can afford to pay a little for health insurance.  Why should I pay for their health care so they can enjoy life's little luxuries????
PS all I have is a tracfone

340

FYI: I'm a Clinton Democrat, now supporting McCain.

Republicans who appeal to moderate Democrats: McCain, Giuliani, Lindsay Graham

To appeal to moderate Dems:

1. Support equal rights for Women

2. Expose Dems as financially irresponsible

3. Promote the "lower taxes stimulate the economy" line.

4. Support McCain on Immigration policy.

5. Support McCain on Global Warming

6. Most of all - Stop the McCain bashing on the right wing.

Really, the best thing Republicans could do is stop criticizing McCain for being a moderate. The fact that McCain is a moderate is the ONLY reason Republicans stand a chance this election year. Every Republican should be supporting McCain 100% (whether you actually agree with his policies or not). There'll be plenty of time to argue with him AFTER he's elected.

 

341

Pander to me. I am a democrat supporting McCain/Palin. I  no longer recognize the democratic party. We all have to rid the party of these socialist hijackers. To do that we have to elect McCain. Vote Dean and Pelosi out.

I will never support obama because of his lies, his hatred of America, his ties to dirty dealers, his wife's remarks about "Barak won't allow you" to do this or that,,,her hatred of whites, the both of them hate our country, his flip-flopping every time he gets caught, his 20 years in Wright's *church*, it all adds up to a great big HELL NO BO!!!

 

 

 

 

342 As far as the PUMA's...Republican's need to get on their knees and thank these women and men. I myself am a Republican but I've been on the Hillary Clinton forum for a while and I am addicted to it. Here's what I can tell you about them:

1. LOVE Sarah Palin. LOVE LOVE LOVE her.
2. Hate the MSM. They are big Fox News fans and some are even listening to Rush.
3. They want McCain to hammer Obama on all of his Chicago Thuggary. They want the man exposed for what he really is and they want blood.
4. They were treated HORRIBLY at the Democratic Convention. HORRIBLY.
5. They are volunteering at GOP Headquarters in DROVES.
6. They are making phone calls from their homes to other voters to drum up support for McCain.
7. They are news hounds. The Hillary Forum is one of the best places on the web to find information.
8. They will email MSNBC, CNN or anyone they feel is not being fair in a New York Minute.

I would really suggest you take some time to visit their forum. You will really be amazed. You should post a thread about this forum and encourage your other readers to go their as well. Maybe it will encourage some Republican's to work as hard at getting McCain elected as these men and women are.

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/index.php

343 Also, I enjoy your site very much Ace. When I saw your post, I posted it at the Hillary forum and asked them to come address your questions.

344 It wouldn't hurt if, when McCain brings up ACORN and fraud, he would thank the efforts of PUMAs along with that. Wearing the orange ties is subtle and I like it, but not enough people are in the know, I think.

345

Ace, bump this! 

Hillary was screwed by the dem primaries rig.  Dammit, she deserves some respect!  There are a lot of women besides the ones here representing that  know that Obama's henchmen stole the nomination from her.

McCain's a bipartisan person?  Get him with Hillary, together, and Sarah.

Hillary's always been proud of being an American woman.

 I never saw the Clintons hate our country.  I see in the Obamas that they do hate our country.  That's the line, talking how they will all work together to save our country.  Get Sarah and Todd working together, showing how men and women work together.  And get Cindy out there, talking about their kid in Iraq.  And get Bill out there.  Yeah, somethimes I wonder how a smart woman like Hillary chose him, but he's one of those guys who can talk well.  Get him out there!

346 Ace:  You need to bump this thread again.  Please!!  I just got back from the bar -- I was riveted all day here, but let's face it, those beers weren't gonna drink themselves -- and I have been SPREADING THE WORD!  Actually had one former Obama voter (high income, high education lawyer) tell me he's decided to vote the rest of the ballot, but refrain from voting for POTUS.

So, this is huge, what you're doing here today.  You are a true patriot, an amazing dude, and you might just go down in history as a game-changer with what you did right here.

I salute you!  And, again, beg you to bump this thread back up top where it belongs.

Mwah!!!  (yeah, that's the beer talking, but the sentiment will survive the night)

347 As an ex-Democrat (I worked on Billy Jeff's campaign) I would say that what would impress a PUMA is to walk the political talk: prosecute the people in Congress who brought on this debacle. I don't trust either party and left the Dems because of their nonchalant attitude about the genocide they were advocating in Iraq, so I don't want safe and safe political blather.

I have to say I agree with O'Reilly: call for Rudy to be appointed Special Prosecutor to clean up Congress and bureaucrats like the Three Amigos (Raines, Johnson, Gorelick).

No more talk. Action. Principles.

348 Hi everyone, I'm a proud member of Pumapac and  a lifelong democrat.  I have always voted the Democratic ticket even when I didn't like the person, such as dumbbutt John Kerry ( I know, I know, ) but this time it's about our country and not about the party.    I like McCain, and love Palin.  She is one kick butt lady!   I am shocked that the Republicans are not coming out hard against Obie showing his ties to Rezko, Wright, etc.  The man is a freakin timebomb.  Can you see him sitting down to tea with the terriorst in the WH?????  The man is an absolute idioit.  His wife is the witch from hell.    McCain needs to put some fire in his speech, he needs to come to life.  He needs to hit hard on the economy and OIL.  He needs to show how the people on Obie's team were the crooks from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  Go visit pumapac.org and you will learn how to do this.  PUMAs have it going and we work as a team.  We do need to hook up with the Reps and work this together.  We have to stop Obie or he is going to win.  He is up in the polls right now.   McCain needs to name the PUMAs and ask for our help.  A lot of us are those "over 50 white women" that the Obie team says  they don't need, McCain needs to say thatt he respects us and wants our support.   Put it out there.  We can help!!!  Not all PUMAs will vote Republican but a lot will.    The democracy is gone out of the Democratic party, they SELECTED Obie, he was NOT elected.  PUMAs are determined to restore our party, but we know our party left us, we didn't leave it.  This Democrat is voting for McCain/Pain

349 PUMA's are the real deal. They hate Obama and are pulling for McCain, doing LOTS of good work. I'm not exactly a PUMA but do hang out on their blog and post a comment on occasion. They're really PO'd with the direction their party has taken. They've even taken to watching FoxNews, and listening to Rush and Hannity. Strange world this election has created!

350 Great comments, KyPuma.  I thank you most sincerely.  We all need to pull together because this time, as has been said before, it's the soul of our country.  I am a dyed-in-the-wool conservative/libertarian and I welcome you, I celebrate your patriotism and I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you as we fight for our way of life against The One who would take that from us. 

351

I'm totally PUMA, and I decided after researching Obama during the primaries that I would have to vote for McCain if Obama was the nominee -not just because I was angry that the DNC SELECTED him and helped him cheat his way to "victory". Had that been my biggest issue, I would have just planned to leave the top of the ticket blank, or written in Hillary.  I am afraid of the damage Obama would do to this country if elected, and I knew the only way to beat him was to vote McCain.  I think other Hillary Dems who decided to vote Obama, especially after Hillary threw her support behind him, are party players who find it hard to conceive of voting anything other than Dem.  The abortion issue is a huge deal to most.

McCain needs to emphasize the positives of crossing party lines - coming together- Dems, Reps, and Indys in a spirit of compromise to put COUNTRY FIRST, putting aside differences in ideology, putting aside historical differences to SAVE THIS COUNTRY from the far, extreme left.

We Dems who don't support Obama are very angry about being called racist by Obama and his supporters.  Many of us have worked hard for civil rights, like the Clintons have, and we do not deserve that rap.  McCain needs to acknowledge this, tell the Dems that this is an unjust accusation and he condemns it.

We are extremely outraged about the cheating that went on during the primaries.  McCain needs to start referencing this (caucus fraud. com), and promise to work to ensure that the General Election is fair and honest.

He needs to acknowledge the sexism in the media against HIllary, and the unfair treatment she received, promising to work for gender equality in all areas.  He's begun that by selecting Palin.  He needs to acknowledge his respect for Hillary, and her courage in continuing her fight for the nomination, in spite of the calls by the  her left wing of own party to drop out when she was winning.  Donna Brazille sent us a nasty emai:  Message to the base - stay home.  He needs to say Message to the base  - don't stay home.  Put your country first.

He needs to promise Dems they will be valued, respected, and listened to.  He needs to say he won't brush us off his sholders as Obama did when ridiculing Hillary. He needs to he won't flip us off like Obama did to Hillary - and that he hates the Jay -Z song "I got 99 Problems but a Bitch Ain't One: - one of Obama's favorites.

I don't think there's any way he can make them (or any of us) feel good about his stance on abortion, but he needs to point out in a subtle way that the Dems have held it over the heads of female Dems to get our votes.  But, did they stand up for HIllary when MSM was expressing total sexism and misogyny  toward her?  Hell no.  They did nothing to indicate they appreciated or cared about the women who have supported the party all these years.

He needs to tell them that their families will be safer, both financially and in terms of national security with him president, and he needs to say how he will keep them safer.  (Given Obama's indifference and even, antipathy toward America, that shouldn't be too hard an argument to make.

 

352

kimberly, @#72: 38% of Clinton supporters say THEY WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA. That number hasn't budged since June.

Dammit, I want a link.

353

Puma hug to our Republican friends!

When the DNC rules committee gave delegates from Hillary to Obama, they stole the votes and the voice of the Americans those delegates represented. I clearly recognized that any party that did this was overthrowing democracy by putting their will above the will of the people! This means that everyone voting in the election will have one choice on their ballot that was "selected" for them and does not represent the will of the people. We cannot let this stand or all our candidates will be "selected" and not "elected" by us! If we lose the our voices, democracy ceases to exist. What the democratic party did was a violation of everything I believe in. I have to choose my country and freedom over a corrupt democratic party.

354

What McCain has to realize is that he is the incumbent party, why is that important? Let me explain.

Obama says change and McCain says change. But neither is making any effort to define that change. People look at McCain and say change? If he can't tell me what that change is going to be, then I guess it's going to be the status quo. As for Obama, they don't know what his change will be, but whatever it is, they'll take it.

This is why you can't reach Obama supporters. They want change. McCain has the burden to define change, and Obama can talk about it but doesn't have to define it. McCain is the incumbent which defines his change, none. 

355 "I have to choose my country and freedom over a corrupt democratic party."

That's what made me register from Dem to Independent and vote Republican.  At least it's still acceptable in the Republican Party to actually love your country and to try to preserve it against enemies, foreign or domestic!

356

The election fruad is really sticking in people's craw. McCain needs to do a laundry list all in the same speech or debate. 1 or 2 aren't enough. There is plenty out there-rattle them all off -and prefereably "o" explanations so far. He's had 4 or 5 different ones about Ayers up to today. Someone (who I can't remember at the moment) made a comment in an interview on Fox that if "O' applied for a job with the federal govt he'd be tunred down security clearance because of his known associates. That thought stayed with me for hours. It's the kind of thing that rattles around in your head and gets you thinking.

Economy is big but going after the people that got us here is just as big. Not just the Wall Street fatcats but many in the House and Senate. The only ones that will be held responsibile if there is an "O" win will be the Wall street fat cats and not Frank, Dodd, Pelosi and their ilk. One thing most everyone believes is that McCain will go after all that are responsible-no matter what party they belong to.

I'm an independant that has usually leaned Democrat in the past(I'm embarrassed and ashamed to admit that now) but the party I have known all my life doesn't exist anymore. In the NE blue state I live in, it seems ignorance of the facts is reason #1why people are voting BO. It's like trying to hold back the ocean with a broom with all the media bias here to convince anyone of the truth

Didn't Hillary just get pissy when JM acknowledged his idea was similar to his?

357 This comments thread is way to long!   At about half-way thru, I'm inspired to say this:
Several of the posters have given a pretty good idea of the PUMAs, but some things could be added:

They are reasonably diverse.  Some choke on the idea of voting M-P, but not many. 
They are ENRAGED at what was done to their primaries, and are feeding info hand over fist to the investigators of voter fraud by ACORN, etc.
They are really up on O's background and vile associations.  I doubt you could match the knowledge that many of them have about the issue.
Many are betrayed and disillusioned by HRC and Bill's continuing support and statements backing Obama.  For a while they were willing to cut slack on the basis of political necessity, but that's wearing thin.
They stock and distribute hard-hitting anti-Obama campaign materials.
They rage at apparent GOP/McCain softness and inactivity.
They want to bring down Dean, Pelosi, Reid, and the entire DNC head office for its corruption.
They ALL say "I didn't leave the party, the party left me."
Many are in McCain campaign offices doing calling and mailing, etc. 
Many LOVE Sarah and/or respect her competence and attitude immensely.

They are URGENTLY working almost 24/7 to defeat Obama.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were his hardest-working opponents. 
Post comments and offers to co-operate at pumapac.org and you will be welcomed.  But be careful to always get the latest thread; they move fast, and fill up with hundreds of comments in the course of a few hours.   

358 Ugh.  "Way too long."  One of my own pet peeves, and I blew it!

359 #354 Nancy;
Actually, it's a bit more complex.  Obama offers a feeling of inspired Change, don't worry about the details.  McCain has specified corruption, brainless partisanship, and pushes a robust true-democracy alliance.  But it's not given as a "shining vision", and people want something to inspire them. 

So "it's the vision thing" déja vu thing all over again, in a way.  Palin is able to inspire, and that's what may pull it all out.  She's more than an attack dog, believe me. 

360 Ace has got a great idea bringing us all together. Are there other groups out there that feel the same such as the Hispanic vote for example, that could/would be willing to jump in the fray with us? We need to network so each group knows there are alot of others out there and we can pull together to get more JM support from each respective group. Even though we all don't agree on the issues, the most important issue we all share is defeating O before our country is changed forever

361 Brian H, no worries on the "way too long thing."  Your comments at #357 are excellent and I hope Ace is still in the house and sifting this thread, because that post needs to go straight to McCain HQ.  I just started hitting the PUMA sites and there's some amazing information available.  I had NO idea . . .  This has been a remarkable day for me and, I suspect, a lot of people who visited this thread. 

Country first!

Nobama!

362 Just a paranoid late night thought. Better gather and save all the documents on O now becasue if he wins, his Obots are going to scrub anything remotely negative in any form from any and all  resources. I have no doubt documents, public and government will disappear forever or be altered. We know how they operate

363 Niteowl, that's a great idea.  I spent a lot of time last year working grassroots for Fred (sigh) and I would be more than happy to spend a few days at the computer emailing a link to any and all Hispanic politicos if Ace wanted to start a thread on that.  I'll keep checking back.  We CAN make this happen.

364 freyjanyc: have you read lynettelong's blog??

Posted by: kimberly_aka_kimbery_aka_awesomekimberly at October 10, 2008 08:32 PM

----------------------------

no, i have not read lynettelong's blog. nor do i know lynettelong. what's it about?  this is the 1st day that i've come to Ace's blog so i'm not familiar with the posters here.

365

Sounds great CB-let's hope Ace can start a thread and we can get something that will really snowball. The Hispanic vote is just one example of many out there that are feeling the same way as the rest of us. Let's network and become an even bigger force to be recond with.

Seperately are voice is not loud enough, together we can make it roar

366

Ace:  My first time here.  I just had to respond to your post.  Do you remember during the primaries several media and rallies had Obama and Hillary wearing boxing gloves?  Well, I didn't hear anyone who wanted to pit the two against each other with their IQs.

This PUMA supported Hillary because she was more qualified.  I did my homework on Obama.  There are many "lost" years not accounted for.  I do not vote for ghosts with a questionable background.  Can you talk to any of his childhood friends?  How about a paper written by him at one of the colleges he attended?  You won't find so much as a finger print.

Give me the war hero, the patriot, who loves his country.

367 CB thank you for your welcome.  Come over to pumapac and check us out.  You will be amazed at the information there.  It could and will help McCain tremendously.  Let's roll Conseratives, Republicans, Independents and Democrats and any and all others, and  take back our country while there is a country to take.  We MUST unite in this fight.  We cannot allow that man to destroy our country.  WE can all go back to fighting in four years, but let's fight this together this year.     growl

368 Here's a recent pumapac comment:
" Sunshinelvr on 10.11.08 at 1:16 am

I meant I cast my REAL vote for POTUS today. There were no down ticket women..so I voted straight republican–have NEVER voted for ANY republican before..but this year the dems seem to be all corrupt and I can’t stomach all the lying and fawning. and thank you all for caring. I am probably just tired. ..."

369 What school does Michelle's kids attend? As in, is it public city school that uses the Obama/Ayers program? If so... anyone able to get curriculum copies? Or are they conveniently enrolled somewhere else? Did they move to new neighborhood just in time to avoid innercity school system? Moms care about hypocritical moms even if they don't admit it publically.

370  I’m a longtime lurker and first time poster.  I’m not really a PUMA per se, but I’m a life long Democrat that is voting Republican for the first time in my life because I think the far left loon wing of the Democratic Party has committed a veritable coup.  My transformation from Dukakis voter (yep, I voted for a Northeast liberal) to Republican voter started during the New Hampshire primary.  It was watching the media, bloggers and Obama surrogates and supporters turn so viciously on the Clintons over idiotic things like comparing JFK with LBJ and the fairytale comment that really sent me down this path.  I realized that all the conservatives in my family were right about media bias and the dangers of political correctness.   It was a HUGE shift for me in terms of my worldview.  It made me reassess every one of my working assumptions about politics.  I learned the media is biased and has no integrity, liberal Democrats are some of the most hypocritical, intolerant and sanctimonious bastards out there, liberal Democrats are patronizing to minorities indicating they don’t really respect them, and political correctness (particularly of the race card allegation variety) is a clear and present danger to our nation and we need to stop it NOW. 

Regarding how to get to Hillary supporters:

Well, it would help to refrain from piling on when the Obama campaign engages in race baiting.  Moreover, don’t repeat Obama talking points that smear the PUMAs or the Clintons.  Some Hillary voters and moderate Democrats might be ripe for the picking if McCain can convince them that Obama’s economic policies are a total disaster - ESPECIALLY with Reid and Pelosi in Congress.   ( Just the thought of those 3 stooges in charge makes me sick and nauseas.) Someone needs to sit McCain down and give him a good econ boot camp.  It’s imperative that McCain actually TEACH the American people why increasing capital gains taxes and income taxes on the “rich” WILL affect them, especially in this environment.  This isn’t a zero sum game.  He should use Fred Thompson’s speech at the RNC as a basis.  Frankly, I think it’s a TRAVESTY that people overwhelming prefer Obama on the economy over McCain.  At best they should be tied since both of them are clueless.  I guess Obama is just a better bullshitter.  Bottom line, I don’t see how McCain can pull it out without some sort of economic message.  He also needs to challenge Obama’s idiotic claims that McCain is only going to help the rich, “Bush’s failed economic policies” are to blame for the global financial crisis, and McCain is some type of rabid deregulator that helped create the crisis.

I also think it would be good if you guys would try to refrain from trashing McCain every chance you get.  He’s not a perfect candidate by a longshot but I think you’re living in a dream world if you really think a hardcore, angry, redmeat conservative had a chance in hell this year.  You might be able to pull out a 51% win again, but that’s no way to govern (as Bush discovered).  Frankly, I think one reason McCain squeezed out the win was because he seemed less extreme and vitriolic.  It would be great if the conservatives could put up a candidate that espouses conservative principles without looking so angry and hostile toward liberals, illegal immigrants, etc.  I’m not saying change your POV.  Just sell it like Reagan did. 

Sorry for the long post.

 

371

Well, looks like things are moving along very well on this thread without me.

But being the Uppity Woman I am, I will give you a short two cents. Ace, if you want to know what we are thinking, don't ask us to come to your mountain. That's what Obama expects from us.  Read our blogs and then you will know what we are thinking. After all, some of us read yours.....

See how easy the answer is?????

Love and slaps upside your head,

Uppity

 

 

372

Sorry don't know who to address here....but I am also a PUMA member, was Democrat will be switching to Independent.  I pushed with ALL my heart and strength for HRC because I believed she WAS the right person for USA.  From DAY ONE I was suspicious of BO, even without the knowledge of all that I know of him today.

 

BO will be the DECLINE DEVASTATION and DOOM for this nation if he is elected.  There is a cloud of darkness that surrounds him, and he will effectively translate that aura onto this nation.  I passionately try to spread this to all who ask me of him.  I could go on and on about this....but what is most important is to ask  What can we at this late point do to change the momentum of the race?

WE MUST NONSTOP BOMBARD THE MCCAIN SITE WITH PLEAS OF MORE ATTACKS FROM HIM AND THE WILLING MSM WITH THE TRUTH OF BO.  THERE ARE STILL MANY UNDECIDEDS THAT ARE NOT AWARE OF THE FACT ABOUT HIS DANGEROUS FRIENDS!

Do not give up on the fact that McCain is too soft and turn on him...HE IS STILL OUR ONLY HOPE.  However WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA must take the battle into our own hands and spread the word!

On our PUMA sight some of our supporters have made flyers to pass out at key battle ground states....we can supply copies for others to help!  there are many things we can do ourselves....get off your rump and DO SOMETHING!

I know I will not allow BO to take this country by COUP without a fight from at least ME!

I challenge all of you to join the FIGHT!

By the way....I am a PROUD AMERICAN AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN!

373

You need to get up off your collective asses and work as hard for McCain as PUMAs are.

374 Obama stole the nomination from Hillary by "community organizing" the caucus..think old time Mafia protection racket with an upjumped racial component..Obama is vulnerable on the economy if you listen to what he's saying.In every speech he warns of "sacrifice" and "change"..his most telling remark in the last debate was suggesting how wrong McCain was in giving business tax breaks because that's just taking money "out of the system" WTF?  In his world Socialism works. this guy has got to be stopped

375

I totally agree with big D (#374) that Obama is vulnerable on the economy.  He says the most ludicrous things.  McCain needs to call him out when he talks about “fairness.”  What he is proposing isn’t “fairness” it’s “forced equality” and it needs to be noted as such.  What’s fair about welfare?  That’s what Obama is proposing with his so-called 95% tax cut.  What’s fair about re-distributing money from those that earned it to those that didn’t?  How is it a good idea to punish those that invest and create jobs when we’re losing so many jobs today?  That’s sheer lunacy.  I’d like to see McCain propose that we cut out all special corporate tax breaks and replace it with a single corporate tax cut.  Then he should explain that the US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world and that’s exacerbated the problems we face.   Anyone unmoved by those arguments, i.e., anyone that really believes in soaking the rich in order to mooch off a nanny state, was NEVER going to vote for McCain in the first place.  Not all Democrats are that pitiful and worthless.  We may be more comfortable with some forms of government intervention than Republicans, but many of us HATE this nanny state crap.  Don’t forget Palin’s comments about personal responsibility resonated with both Republicans and Democrats at the VP debate.  Democrats aren’t all lazy bastards. 

In my opinion, McCain is one of the bravest, ballsiest politicians out there.  However, he suffers from the same ailment a lot of Democrats (including Bill and Hillary Clinton and many of her staffers) suffer  from: He’s cowed by charges of being called racist and intolerant.  He needs to ignore that crap and fight back. Call it for what it is: An attempt to distract from the real issues (ala Barky Obama, right?)  You can tell Palin has been a hardcore conservative all her life because she doesn’t seem to CARE when they try to smear her as a racist.  She just keeps hammering away.   I hope she doesn’t let that “tasergate” garbage stop her from hammering away at Obama’s associations.  Obama has never allowed perceived or real hypocrisy from stopping HIM.  McCain also needs to learn how to bullshit as well as Obama.   The Obamanuts call him a lying liar but I think the opposite is true.  He is too sincere as when he admitted he knows nothing about economics.  (The times I’ve seen him “lie” I came away with the impression that he REALLY believed it, not that he was consciously lying.) McCain needs to bullshit confidence on these economic matters.  I bet Barry folds like an umbrella.  (There’s nothing more fun than calling out a bullshitter and watching them cave.) 

376

McCain hasn't made his case to the American people. He just keeps proving he's more of the same. He's out of touch. He's guilty by association (bush). Why don't you wake up and tell him he is letting Obama define who he is? Just like Kerry. McCain looks weak, because he doesn't defend himself. Even though we know he wants to change things, he hasn't convinced people that things are going to change. If he really wants to reform America, then he better start acting like it. Running his campaign like it. Talking to the American people like a maverick.

If he's so clueless that he can't seperate himself from Bush, then he's an idiot. People have had it and are fed up with the direction this country is headed in to the point that they would vote for the devil himself if they thought he was going to bring change.

McCain has stayed voiceless and did not defend himself when the Democrats and Obama pointed the finger of blame at him and Republicans for the financial crisis. They made him look like an out of touch fool running to Washington, because he keep silent, and let them lay the blame at his feet. Why didn't he speak up? Why didn't he challenge Obama to show us where there has been any deregulation passed in the last eight years? McCain failed to  stand up and actually quote the year and the name of the bill he was trying to pass to regulate the Freddie and Fannie and point the finger back to the democrats who blocked it unanymously? The name of the bill says alot to the American people - Federal Housing enterprize Regulatory Reform Act. No, he keep silent and let the democrats and Obama bury him! Most people don't even know about that bill, and just saying in passing that he tried to bring reform has alot less impact than saying he was a sponsor of the bill and telling us the name of the bill. It's pretty descriptive name.

One of the biggest complaints the American people have with Bush is that he never talked to us about the economy - He never cared. And when McCain fails to talk to us he's saying loud and clear - It's going to be more of the same. John McCain had all the attention in the world focused on him in Washington and failed to use the bully pulpit to speak out in his own defense, he thought actions were going to convince us without backing them up with words? Classic Bush. Clearly clueless. Everyone agrees, he's running a terrible campaign.

I over head someone say that McCain doesn't defend himself but ge tells everyone that the "Republicans let government change them" - Why doesn't he just get a shovel and dig a hole for himself and jump in.

377 Hi all, this is a link to Puma United Radio PUR(r) for short.
I think you guys should go on there, scroll down to the Lion's Share show on the ninth of Octoberand donload/listen to it.
It has really scary eyewitness accounts of what Acorn has been doing last week in Ohio. (as many as 500,000 early votes without voter ids, it was enough to have the last 4 digits of a soc sec number, or an anonymous utility bill-peole were bussed in).
(Early votes once the lever has been pressed can no longer be checked like absentee ballots can.)

Pumas are no longer wet behind the ears about Obama vote fraud thuggery.

http://tinyurl.com/4kw832

378 Oh yes, and I wanted to add -no pandering is too great for Pumas!!
We've been spat upon for too long.

379 Abortion. The Obots throw this one at me all the time and I have no answer.

Pretty simple: At the worst, abortion would just be sent back to the states to decide. And given Senator McCain's history, do you really think he'll pick conservative judges? And get them through a Democratic controlled congress?

380

Nancy, ITA that McCain has screwed up by not defending himself and his record more vocally.  He’s allowed Obama to define him unfairly.  I think it’s IMPERATIVE that the McCain camp get out in front on this tasergate shit.  I’d ask “How is it abuse of power for Governor Palin to refrain from stopping her husband from speaking up about a trooper that’s been found guilty of tasering a 10 year old boy and drinking in his patrol car but it’s NOT abuse of power for the Alaska State Troopers to continue to keep this guy on the job? Who has the public’s best interest at heart?”  I’d also make the point that Obama shill Hollis French’s declaration that Wooten is NOT a rogue cop clearly indicates French condones troopers tasering children and drinking in their patrol cars.  Is that what we are to expect in Obama Nation?  But I digress.. As much as McCain frustrates me I still think it’s imperative that we don’t sit back and grumble about what a lousy candidate he is.  In particular, we need to hold the MEDIA’S feet to the fire.  The bias is absolutely outrageous and sadly there are still a lot of people in this country that believe what the media reports.  We need to call the media out for their inaccuracies, lies, omissions and distortions.   Not just to help McCain but also to help all FUTURE Obama opponents.  I GUARANTEE you that the media would pull the same crap on ANY Obama opponent.  McCain’s mess is largely his fault.  But it’s also the fault of a wildly biased media.  Moreover, it’s OUR fault in that we ALLOW the media to get away with this crap. 

381 I am a life long Democrat but always leaned toward Third Party. I checked out all of the Third Parties in the Nineties and decided that they are the same old rehash of the past of the current parties. So, I have voted in the Primaries to choose the Democratic President for over twenty something years.

I began to become a PUMA in spirit at around the beginning of the year when I was doing research on the candidates and supporting Senator Clinton. I was sensing that a lot of underhanded games were being played out on the big screen (some are big now). So, I felt that there was not way in hell that I could or would vote for Obama. My feelings began to emerge around April - sooner or later.

I have been actively involved in PUMA activities since June. I had felt that McCain was a Patriot and that our Country needed a Patriot in Times of Turmoil and not a Spoilt Arrogant Self-Centered Pig who does not wear lipstick as far as I know.

382 I think a lot of PUMAs are like me on the abortion issue. Enough! I will not be held hostage by the Democratic Party because of one issue. Especially when that Party has shown that it only pays lip service to women's issues. The blatant and vile misogyny displayed by Obama and his supporters should be a red flag to anyone who cares about women's rights (or just thinks women are human beings).

For the first time in my life I will vote for a Republican this November. And truth be told, if McCain were not the Republican candidate I would probably have a much harder time casting my ballot. But I've always liked McCain, heck even Joe Biden "endorsed" him as Kerry's running mate in 2004. So one aspect you folks may want to play up is that Americans KNOW McCain. He's not a wild card. He's solid and experienced. These are qualities that Obama does not have and are of utmost importance in electing the President, especially in uncertain times. Obama = Uncertainty. And, right now, more uncertainty is a bad thing.

And, I agree with the poster who said to hit hard on Obama's and his supporters' unfettered sexism such as the "99 Problems," the shoulder brush off, the "sweetie" incidents, the "bitch" incident, and the fact that this form of attack didn't stop with Clinton, it continues with the Palin bashing. I'm sure there's enough clips of celebrity Obama supporters making vile sexist comments about Clinton and Palin that it should be easy to create a nice little montage and end it with a headline like "Sexism: Obama Style" or something similar.

Another good ad would be comparing the Obama child indoctrination videos with Hitler and Mao youth group films. Personally I think this would sway more than just PUMAs sitting on the fence because those kid obot videos are village-of-the-damned creepy.

Of course, these ads would have to come from an indirect sources like 527s or viral blogging.

One of Obama's ads that angers me the most is the one where he exploits his mother's illness and death from cancer. It's particularly revolting because he mentions that she had to fight with insurance companies but never mentions why Mr. Harvard Law Grad didn't do the fighting for her. For me, it speaks volumes that he is using his mother for political posturing when he wasn't even there for her when she needed him at the end of her life. Of course, an ad attacking Obama on something so personal would be beyond poor taste, but still it infuriates me every time his "mother/healthcare" ad plays. That man is the ULTIMATE user.

383 Can some of you PUMA women make youtube clips pushing the points you think other on the fence voters would want to hear? Misogyny, Hillary, caucus fraud etc.
Short, one or two minute clips like I was a lifelong democrat but after the blatant sexism I'm voting for Palin or I'm an American voting for McCain. And push the links. There are so many PUMA sites around that even if only a few good videos go viral it can still have a pretty big impact.
The dinosaur media is dead. Instead of telling the McCain campaign what to say, say it yourself.

384

PUMA from Illinois,

If there is anything you want to know, all you need to do is visit one of the sites that PUMA's blog on. There are many to choose from.

You want to know what you can do to get more Democrats and Independants to vote for McCain or at least not vote for Obama? I would like to know the same thing about those Republicans that are not voting for McCain because they  think McCain or Palin are not the perfect Republicans. There are no perfect candidates, most people realize that, but  this is not about party for a lot of us. It is about what is best for our country, those that live here, the freedom we fight for and the American dream we bought and payed for with our blood, sweat, tears and paycheck. Obama does not have our best interest in mind. If you want to convince someone to vote for your candidate, you need to convince the Republicans that he is the person to vote for.  

ACORN is the biggest story that can damage Obama. He is winning on the economy issue and McCain needs to tie Obama with the Democrats that brought this crises about. Everybody needs to get this in the public eye. The questionable friends is the second important issue. Obama has managed to get away with it so far, but the Ayers connection is making a dent. I always ask people: Would you trust Obama with our national secrets and national security knowing that he has terrorists ties? How will you feel if he invites Ayers to the White House if he becomes President? Does these things make you feel safe considering that the men that highjacked the planes on 9/11, lived here in the United States and no one knew they were terrorists? If Osama Bin Laden said that he was rehabilitated, would he than be trustworthy? Obama would probably think so! Scary stuff for me.

When this election started it was about party. When the DNC rigged the nomination, it became personal. With the crashing market it will become survival. People will vote wallet, pocketbook and safety this election. Convince people that McCain/Palin is the duo that will bring our country back to the American dream.

BTW: This is my opinion. You will find that even the PUMA's have different views about many things but we all agree on one thing. We are united in the fight to keep Obama out of the White House.

 

 

385

Two points that the McCain camp needs to make ( in my PUMA opinion)

 

1.  How can Sen Obama pass judgement on where and how our military should be focused regarding Iraq and Afghanistan when he has failed to hold one meeting on his oversite commitee regarding our military and NATO's involvement in Afghanistan.  He criticized McCain for suspending his campaign to deal with the finacial crisis and said that a president has to be able to deal with more than one thing at time but answered the question as to why he had not held a meeting of his oversight commitee (during a debate in the primaries) by saying that he was too busy campaigning for the nomination to do so.

 

2.  Keep blasting him on the earmarks and pork he has signed off on and asked for. I watched Mike Huckabee's program on Fox and he said it was at least 1 million dollars a day since he has been a senator. I believe that his number reflects days elected against days actually doing work as a senator so the dollar per number is probably higher.  John McCain has asked for 0. ZERO in earmarks. ZERO.

386 Specific Question: Obama pays his female staffers 87 cents to every dollar he spends on male workers. McCain pays women $1.04 for every dollar paid to men.

I'm a PUMA, and I've definitely been wondering why McCain hasn't ran an ad on this already. I decided to vote for McCain after the blatant sham of a convention. But many of the undecided Clinton Democrats are being bombarded by Obots screaming about Roe v. Wade and equal pay. I don't expect McCain/Palin to pander on the abortion issue (and wouldn't believe them if they did). But he should certainly scream from the rooftops that he is far more progressive about equal pay than Obama is. In fact, this is just one more instance of Obama not walking his talk.

Speaking for myself only, I don't need any pandering at this point. I detest Obama more than any other politician I've ever been exposed to, and that's saying a lot. All of the things that probably bother you about Obama also bother me. (Ayres, Rezko, Wright, Pfleiger, etc. His socialist/communist ties and leanings. His constant lies. His total lack of experience and achievement. His constant race baiting). Add to that the fraudulent way he was given the nomination, and I'm very committed to his defeat.

Incidentally, I'm surprised that many of your readers aren't aware of how many of us there are already involved in the McCain campaign. Many of us are already phone banking, handing out flyers, and actively supporting McCain/Palin. And at most events, you will see a lot of Democrats for McCain signs.

387 Democrats love a fighter so McCain needs to get angrier and in the next debate he needs to attack Obama more and get in his face, even get a little physical with him if necessary. He would also probably win over a lot of Democrats if he told them to go to their windows and yell, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore" like Howard Beale in Network.

But we can't depend on McCain to do what needs to be done. As individuals we can scream at our friends and colleagues that they would be crazy to vote for Barack Hussein Obama because he's a terrorist and not one of us. The louder we scream, the more persuasive we'll be.

We also need to get some of our friends together and organize into angry mobs. Not only are angry mobs very persuasive, they send the subtle message that if Obama wins, conservatives will riot and who knows what could happen.

Sarah Palin is an asset that is just not being exploited enough. Democrats love sex and have a lot of it (more than we conservatives can even imagine) so we should be putting up sexy pictures of Palin in our offices and on our blogs and initiating conversations with wavering Democrats about her jugs, especially if they bring up things like experience and knowing anything about the issues of the day. We might also subtly hint that McCain probably won't survive his term so voting for him would more likely than not mean that we have a President Palin in our future. We have to be tasteful in raising this point, of course.

Finally we should emphasize pocketbook issues like the capital gains tax, the estate tax and privatizing social security, issues that really resonate with people in these trying economic times.

I think if we do all of these things we'll win over enough Democrats to make it close enough that the voting machines can give the victory to McCain, if you know what I mean.

388 Jon Swift, you're doing a really good imitation pf an obot. (snark much?) Bring up Palin "jugs"? Angry mobs? These are obot talking points (aka attacks) that incense PUMAs.

389

Former Dem here, Clinton voter, highly educated, professor at an Ivy league institution (shout out to Laura Ingraham).

If I'm reading your shout out correctly, I need your name and classes you teach!  My daughter is a freshman there...and one of maybe, what three conservatives, on campus.

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