Presidential Townhall Debate Cheat Sheet

Here's another quick summation for those who couldn't bring themselves to watch. Honestly, I think you were the lucky ones. This debate was excruciating even during the liveblog, which usually increases the heh-factor of these things. (Incidentally, in case you missed it my Vice Presidential debate cheat sheet is here.)

Missing from this debate: immigration, abortion, guns, courts, voter fraud. There were no questions about those topics and the candidates didn't bring them up on their own initiative.

The following table is in the order in which the questions were asked. The typical format was for a question to come from the audience (pre-screened, of course) or by email (read by Brokaw), which is then answered by the candidates in turn, and then for Brokaw to ask a "one-minute follow-up", which is then answered by the candidates. Several times the candidates would go over their alloted time. Often, Brokaw tried to rein them in, mostly without success. Obama, especially, kept trying to interrupt to get the last word in questions where McCain, by rights, should have had the final answer. I have included the most egregious interruptions and cross-talk below because I expect that's going to be mentioned around water-coolers in the next day and this way you can act like you know what's being talked about.

I have tried to be fair in cutting each candidate's responses down to a manageable size (not always successfully). I used the candidates' own language as much as possible, but have paraphrased occasionally. The candidate who got to speak first on each question is marked with a ‡ symbol. A rush transcript of the debate is at CNN; watch out, at the time of this posting it isn't entirely accurate.

Issue	Question	Obama	McCain
Economy	What is the fastest way to help people in these economic conditions? [From TB:] Who would be your treasury secretary?	‡It's Bush's fault, deregulation's fault, CEO's fault. But we're going to put the focus on the middle class. [This is the same answer Biden gave last week to a similar question; I only had to remove Biden's prefatory "neither."] Warren Buffet would be a good choice, but there are others out there, too. Prosperity is not just going to trickle down. We've got to help the middle class.	We need to keep taxes low and get energy independence. We will stabilize markets and shore up these institutions, but it won't be enough. I would order the secretary of the treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at new values. ‡Warren Buffet is already helping. I like Meg Whitman, who has proven that she can create jobs.
Bailout	How will the bailout package help people? [From TB:] Is this going to get worse before it gets better?	Credit crunch is going to cause businesses to fail to make payroll. They will have to shut their doors and lay people off. That's why we had to take action. The biggest problem in this whole process was deregulation. The "rescue package" is only the beginning of the process. ‡No, I am confident about the American economy. But we have an archaic regulatory system trying to deal with 21st century financial markets. We have to change Washington so the voices of ordinary Americans will be heard.	‡I fought for congressional oversight in the bailout to protect taxpayers. But, one of the real catalysts that lit this fire was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, with the encouragement of Sen. Obama and his cronies and his friends. This rescue package will stabilize markets and shore up these institutions. But it's not enough. It depends on what we do. We must act effectively; we must stabilize housing. We can fix our economy, because we're the best. We gotta give the American worker the chance to do their best again.
Trust in Government	How can we trust either of you when both parties got us into this financial crisis? [From TB:] What are going to be your priorities and in what order: healthcare, energy, and entitlement reform?	‡When Bush came into office we had surpluses, now we have deficits. It's his fault more than the Democrats'. Senator McCain voted for four out of five of those Bush budgets. We've gotta reform healthcare. We've gotta deal with energy. We've got to invest in college availability. I'm cutting more than I'm proposing to spend. At the top of the list: energy, we have to deal with that today. In ten years, we should be free from Middle Eastern oil. Healthcare is priority number two. Number three, we need to reform education.	I have been a consistent reformer. I have taken on special interests. I have fought to reduce earmarks. Obama proposes $860 billion in new spending. He voted for every increase in spending that came across the Senate floor. He voted for a $3 million planetarium projector. ‡Work on all three at once. We are going to have to sit down and reach across the aisle to get this stuff done. On energy, we have to have "all of the above."
	I want to just remind you one more time about time. We're going to have a larger deficit than the federal government does if we don't get this under control here before too long.
Sacrifices	What sacrifices will you ask every American to make to help restore the American dream and get us out of this economic morass? [From TB:] How would you break the habits of too much debt and easy credit?	Remember 9/11? All of the country was ready to come together to make changes and to make us a more unified country. But President Bush ruined that when he said "go out and shop." Everyone should change energy habits. Create a volunteer corp all across this country so that military families and troops are not the only ones bearing the burden. Fortune 500 CEOs should not be getting tax cuts. An across the board freeze is unfair burden-sharing. People who don't need help shouldn't be getting it. Obama tries to but in. TB doesn't allow.	‡We must examine every agency and every bureaucracy in government and eliminate the ones that aren't working. We need to eliminate earmarks. Earmarks should undergo the same scrutiny as other spending. I recommend a spending freeze except for defense, veterans affairs, and other vital programs. The last president to raise taxes during tough economic times was Herbert Hoover (and he was a protectionist, too!). The only bright spot is that over 300,000 jobs have been created for small businesses. Obama's tax increases will affect 50 percent of small businesses. I am not in favor of tax cuts for the wealthy. I want to leave them where they are right now and then give tax credits to the middle class.
		‡Can I respond to that? I think it's very important... [overruled].
Entitlements	Would you give Congress a date certain to reform Social Security and Medicare within two years of entering office?	‡I can't guarantee we're going to do it in the first two years. We're not going to solve SS and MC unless we understand our tax program. [He's returning to the previous question.] I want to provide a tax cut for 95% of Americans. If you make 200k or less, your taxes will go down. Only a few percent of small businesses make more than 200k a year. Therefore, the vast majority will get cuts.	Social Security is not that tough. We know what the problems are and we know how to fix them. We just have to do it together. Medicare is going to be a little tougher because it's a complex issue. We need a Commission, pull the smartest people in American come together and then force Congress to vote up or down. Not let Congress fiddle with it to death. [Responding:] Obama has voted 94 times to either increase your taxes or against tax cuts.
Environmental Issues	What would you do within the first two years to address environmental issues like climate change and green jobs? [TB asks:] Should we fund a "Manhattan Project" for energy or a hundred thousand garages like for Silicon Valley?	This is an opportunity because if we create a new energy economy it will be an engine that drives us into the future the same way the computer did in the last several decades. We can do it, but we have to spend money on it. I've called for investments in solar, wind, geothermal. I favor nuclear power as one component of our energy mix. We can't drill our way out of the problem. [Obama did not reply to TB's follow-up, nor did it even look like he noticed the omission.]	‡Best way is nuclear power. It's safe, it's clean, it creates jobs. We can develop alternative energies for hybrid cars and battery-powered cares. ‡Turn it over to private sector. I voted against the pork-barrel bills with all kinds of goodies. Obama voted for the last one. I voted against it. Oil drilling offshore is vital so we can bridge the gap between imported oil.
	Gentlemen, you may not have noticed, but we have lights around here.	‡I'm just trying to keep up with John.	Tom, wave and I'll look at you.
Healthcare Nationalization	Should healthcare be sold as a commodity? [From TB:] Healthcare in America: a privilege, a right, or a responsibility?	‡We have a moral commitment to do something about the healthcare crisis. If you've got healthcare already, then you can keep your plan if you're satisfied with it. We're going to lower premiums by spending money on updating to a paperless system. If you don't have health insurance you're going to be able to buy into a federal program that has no restrictions on pre-existing conditions. McCain will tax your health benefits. It should be a right for every American. Something fundamentally wrong about people not being able to pay for healthcare. [TB has to ask Obama to be quiet so they can move on.]	Obama wants to use the government to impose mandates. If you're a small business or a parent and you don't provide health insurance to an employee or child, Obama will fine you. I want to give a $5,000 refundable tax credit for health insurance. ‡A responsibility. We should have affordable healthcare for everyone in America.
Foreign policy -- Peacemaking	How will all the recent economic stress affect our nation's ability as a peacemaker in the world? [TB asks:] What is the Obama Doctrine, what is the McCain Doctrine for intervention in situations where the U.S. doesn't have national security issues at stake?	Senator McCain says I don't understand. And it's true. I don't understand why we invaded Iraq. He said we'd be greeted as liberators that it would be quick and easy. The strains that have been put on our alliances have constrained our ability to react. We must fundamentally change McCain-Bush's foreign policy. ‡We have a moral obligation to "strongly consider" intervening to stop genocides...where possible. There is a lot of cruelty around the world. We're not going to be able to go everywhere.	‡America is the greatest force for good in the history of the world. We need someone in charge with the experience to know when to engage overseas. Obama was wrong about Iraq and Russia. We don't have time for on the job training. On Iraq, it's a good thing that we went in there when we did. Obama would have brought our troops home in defeat. We must do whatever we can to prevent genocide, within the limits of our abilities.
Foreign Policy -- Pakistan	Should the U.S. respect Pakistani sovereignty or should we ignore their borders and pursue our enemies like we did in Vietnam?	‡Bin Laden escaped and set up in Pakistan. Pakistan is the central front in the war on terrorism. We can't let Afghanistan make treaties with the Taliban. If Pakistan is unable or unwilling to attack, we have to act. We have to kill BL and crush AQ. I didn't say invade Pakistan. I said if Pakistan is unable or unwilling to hunt down BL, we should. That has to be our policy. Senator McCain says I'm green behind the ears, but he sang "bomb bomb bomb Iran." This isn't a guy who speaks softly.	Walk softly; carry a big stick. If you're trying to gain the support of another country, you shouldn't announce that you're going to launch an attack on it. Work with the Pakistani government. We need to coordinate efforts, not threaten. Where necessary use force, but talk softly. I was joking about Iran. I'll get OBL. But I'm not going to telegraph my punches.
	I'm just the hired help.	‡I just want a quick follow-up on this.	If he gets one, I get one.
(cont.)	[TB sez:] Senior British commander now leaving Afghanistan says we're failing. How do you reorganize Afghanstan strategy?	‡We have to make the Iraqi government take more responsibility. Withdraw our troops from Iraq and put some of them in Afghanistan.	General Petraus has just taken over responsibility for Afghanistan. We need the same strategy that worked in Iraq. Double the Afghan army, work with NATO.
Foreign Policy -- Russia	How can we apply pressure to Russia in humanitarian issues without causing another Cold War? [TB asks:] Is Russia is a new evil empire?	I agree with McCain. We must provide moral, financial, and concrete support for the former soviet republics. ‡I think they have engaged in evil behavior.	‡There isn't going to be another Cold War. Russia's behavior is outside the norm. I warned about Putin. We have to show support for Georgia and Ukraine and get them into NATO. Of course we want to bring international pressures to bear on Russia in the hopes that it will change it's behavior. Maybe. If I say yes, it reignites the Cold War. If I say no, it excuses Russia's behavior.
Foreign Policy -- Israel and Iran	If Iran attacks Israel, would you be willing to commit U.S. troops to support Israel or would you wait for U.N. permission?	A nuclear Iran is unacceptable. I will do everything in my power to stop that from happening; I'm not taking military options off the table, but we should start with sanctions and economic pressure.	‡We obviously would not wait for the U.N. Security Counsel. Russia and China would probably pose significant obstacles. Our problem right now is that Iran continues on its course to gain nuclear weapons. We need to join with our allies to impose tough sanctions. We need a League of Democracies.
Zen-like Bullshit	What don't you know and how will you learn it?	‡My wife could tell you and I learn by asking her. One of the things we know about the Presidency is that it's the challenges you don't expect that end up taking all your time. I come from hardship, but I was able to succeed. The question in this election is: are we going to pass on that same American dream to the next generation? We can't keep doing the same things we've been doing for the past eight years.	What I don't know is what all of us don't know. Unexpected things will happen at home and abroad. But I know dark times. It is my honor to serve. I'll rest on my record .

And if you've read down this far...is there anything I can do to improve these debate cheat sheets? I really feel like I need to edit down the candidates' answers even more; the table is so crowded. But then you lose so much... Maybe scrap the table entirely and use an outline?

Suggestions are appreciated, though there's only one debate left.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 01:13 AM

Comments

1 I like the colours.

How is it that in your country you're about to elect a radical anti-American terrorist-befriending Marxist when in my country we'd never put such a man in power? Canadians don't like the extremism whatever their thoughts on the politics.

Posted by: Christoph at October 08, 2008 01:15 AM (hawOV)

2 Reading this, it looks like McCain won.

Not sure where you thought he was supposed to squeeze in the 10-minute rant about Ayers.

Posted by: someone at October 08, 2008 01:18 AM (2z2WN)

3 "Reading this, it looks like McCain won."

Reading a debate cheat sheet composed by a left wing blogger, it would probably appear the other way round.

Posted by: Christoph at October 08, 2008 01:20 AM (hawOV)

4 I missed the 1:15 of the debate. Then I tried listening in at the end, but it was just un-listenable for me. So having not seen/heard it, I don't much want to read any post debate analysis, so this will suffice.

Again, kudos Gabriel.

Posted by: rockhead at October 08, 2008 01:25 AM (DvaIL)

5 Suggestions:

What about giving the table a css class attribute and then applying property padding 2px to the cells?

Posted by: Christoph at October 08, 2008 01:30 AM (hawOV)

6 "Maybe scrap the table entirely and use an outline?" - do you have something that can scrap the last month entirely and use some Jack Daniels?

Posted by: David Ross at October 08, 2008 01:31 AM (TKbf3)

7 Christoph - You did elect Trudeau...

Posted by: David Ross at October 08, 2008 01:32 AM (TKbf3)

8 This summary is awesome, because you see exactly when each candidate decided the free market needed to be destroyed.

McCain went right in and chopped it's head off.

Obama at least circled around a few times, then landed the killing blow.

Posted by: lorien1973 at October 08, 2008 01:36 AM (ddGv/)

9 Thanks, Gabe. I was only able to catch the tail end of the debate. Apparently I didn't miss much.

I was pissed that Brokaw gave McCain the question on Russia, first, because it would have been fun to watch Obama flounder. Obama simply cribbed his answer from McCain.

Posted by: Nice Deb at October 08, 2008 01:40 AM (9Ghzz)

10 I actually really like the format as you have it. I haven't seen anything else like this (though I haven't been looking for it). I don't think the synopses of the answers are too long. You've done a good job of taking the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and making it just blah, blah. Keep doing it, it'll save me from watching the next one.

Posted by: rockhead at October 08, 2008 01:48 AM (DvaIL)

11 Here's another quick summation for those who couldn't bring themselves<.i>

You don't have little league or girl sccot duties?

Honestly, you should e ashamed.

Posted by: topsecretk9 at October 08, 2008 01:51 AM (7Z79i)

12 "Christoph - You did elect Trudeau..."

Touché.

Posted by: Christoph at October 08, 2008 01:54 AM (hawOV)

13 OT:

Is this the overnight thread? Because Japan's just fallen over in the corner and he doesn't look very well.

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/wei.html

Wow, tomorrow's going to be interesting.

Posted by: adamthemad at October 08, 2008 02:03 AM (aVVGO)

14 I love the cheat sheet.

I have one minor suggestion: The "Category' seems to take undue space. If you rotated so that this was vertical-running slug, it would take up little space at all.

Since you're now apparently First Officer HTML Commander, figured this would be easy for you.

Looks cool though.

Oh, McCain had a line about fannie where he concluded, 'I wrote that letter, Obama's signature was not on it," that I thought was an important moment.

Posted by: ace at October 08, 2008 02:05 AM (1WR4H)

15 You want me to make words dance on their sides? I'm not a wizard, y'know?

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at October 08, 2008 02:10 AM (rWvvO)

16 T
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s.

Posted by: Christoph at October 08, 2008 02:12 AM (hawOV)

17 I've been puzzling about this for a few days...

Ayers summed up the Weatherman philosophy as "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents — that's where it's really at."

Speaking to a Weather Underground "war council" in Michigan in 1969, Dohrn gave a three-fingered "fork salute" to mass murderer Charles Manson. Calling Manson's victims the "Tate Eight," Dohrn gloated over the fact that actress Sharon Tate, who was pregnant at the time, had been stabbed with a fork in her womb. "Dig it. First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim's stomach! Wild!"

I wonder what Ayers/Dohrn saw in Manson that made them kindred spirits... and what do they see in Obama, now?

Food for thought...

Posted by: bmeuppls at October 08, 2008 02:12 AM (lNXkY)

18 No one wants to answer my question?

Where exactly was McCain supposed to jam in his 10-minute expose about Ayers?

Posted by: someone at October 08, 2008 02:13 AM (2z2WN)

19
I had Iron Man on DVD and watched that. It was over in time to watch the last 20 minutes of the debate - long enough to get a feel for it. I didn't miss a damn thing it looks like.

Thanks for the notes. From here it looks like McCain was solid and unexciting and basically won if not overwhelmingly.

Posted by: Ronsonic at October 08, 2008 02:14 AM (ywSvi)

this is a first post but i am a newly minted republican who was a Hillary supporter but after she got cheated and mistreated i saw the light and came to what my former party would call the dark side.

to answer someone's question, Nowhere. There was no opening for ayers.

everyone is falling for the media nuclear narrative. He needed to be a statesmen. Hopeful optimistic and layout an agenda. he did. He did very good. He did better on the economy and alot of the media said so as well.

Mccain just needs to be an acceptable option. Obama has peaked to early and Sarah Palin is the hatchet women. She will have him so radical in america's eyes that the only reasonable option is mac. Also, the polls are cooked. Mccain has alot of support from clinton dems.Obama is relying on the 2 most unreliable voting blocs in history to win. It did not work for Adlei Stevens or Mcgovern. It will not work for obama. Mccain won tonight. Everyone wants him to throw bombs like bill ayers did. He would have looked insulting to answer questions with an assasination of Obama's character. Also, i know alot of folks hate his mortage idea. It is what will swing the election. Not to mention we have been waiting for months for the housing market to hit bottom and it has not. Every foreclosed home has a ripple effect. We must solve the housiing problem. Not to mention poeple have rapped him for not caring, this is a policy that shows empathy.

Posted by: ppp at October 08, 2008 02:25 AM (zzms8)

21 To quote an old meme...

Welcome to the dark side... we have cookies.

Posted by: bmeuppls at October 08, 2008 02:28 AM (lNXkY)

22 Thank you! Actually after watching Hillary get thrashed i realized i am more in-line with republicans anyway. I am only 23 and this is the first election i have followed closely. I always bought into the class warfare of dems. Bill Clinton is who got me to love politics as well as a teenager growing up i used to follow his career with great interest. I know he is unpopular to conservatives. But the work Bill and a republican congress did over his 8 years was amazingly productive.

Posted by: ppp at October 08, 2008 02:36 AM (zzms8)

PPP-

Welcome to the land where we affectionately call ourselves morons. We're glad you're here, and hope you'll hang out and be part of the fun.

And thanks for your insights. We don't often get crossovers here, and yours is a fresh point of view.

Again, welcome to the fold... hope you enjoy your time here!

tmi3rd

Posted by: tmi3rd at October 08, 2008 02:36 AM (X9MTa)

My tiny URL fu is weak, so go over to Drudge and check out the Zogby poll, which shows an Obama lead...

47-45.

No time to let up now, folks.

tmi3rd

Posted by: tmi3rd at October 08, 2008 02:44 AM (X9MTa)

I did not watch the debate and this is exactly what I expected. I note that the questions all revolve around Democrap style issues; no bias there huh?

If there had been no Sarah Palin in the race this debate would only serve to make me vote 3^rd party.

Posted by: Vic at October 08, 2008 02:49 AM (b1ysY)

26 Clinton is not too "unpopular" with conservatives, he is the most likable democrat President or dem candidate in years.... Kerry was well, too effete and fwench, and Obama is positively Carter esque...

He did get welfare reform passed... and he is rooting for McCain this go round. Albeit surrepetitiously...

Posted by: bmeuppls at October 08, 2008 02:53 AM (lNXkY)

27 "Clinton is not too "unpopular" with conservatives"

Speak for yourself.

Whatever he did or didn't do in office, he was also a rapist who used his position as Attorney General of Arkansas to get away with it.

Posted by: someone at October 08, 2008 02:54 AM (2z2WN)

28 Mind you, I probably would have voted for Hillary over McCain...

Posted by: someone at October 08, 2008 02:55 AM (2z2WN)

29 @20, welcome.

"Also, i know alot of folks hate his mortage idea. It is what will swing the election. Not to mention we have been waiting for months for the housing market to hit bottom and it has not. Every foreclosed home has a ripple effect. We must solve the housiing problem. Not to mention poeple have rapped him for not caring, this is a policy that shows empathy."

It's a bitter pill to swallow, and I don't think McCain presented it well. At outset, it is nothing more than neu-socialism, it kicks meritocracy in the ass, and McCain offered it as such. That's why values voters will now second guess McCain, that's where it will hurt him. I just hope his campaign did the stats models before rolling this out. It reeks of cutting off the nose to spite the face.

I got tix to go see him tomorrow, now I'm disgusted enough that I might just pass.

But that's all in presentation and gesture.

Here's the real problem that I have with it. More often than not, the government is an abject failure at running things.

FM/FM got us into this mess. Government-backed organizations, artificially raising home prices. How is the government going to be successful at fixing the problem it created?

Right now, the market is correcting itself. Turns out, money isn't free, the dollar actually has some value to it. This is all happening despite the fact that the FM/FM mechanism still exists, which is amazing, and more gas has been added to the fire in that the government is going to pump up credit markets by exchanging their "toxic assets" for cash, allowing these firms to continue making bad decisions.

It reeks of classism. How is the government going to decide who merits a mortgage bailout? The guy who overpaid 2 mil on his 10 mil house and is "hurting" or the couple that overpaid 15k on their 125k starter home? I don't trust the government to make the right decision, if either of these decisions were right to begin with.

Posted by: kal at October 08, 2008 02:58 AM (XeBQz)

30 Awesome cheat-sheet Ace. I found it very helpful, as someone who watched the debate and was bored to tears while doing my own live blog on it.

Posted by: Conservatism Today at October 08, 2008 03:05 AM (D2ZFC)

31 Oops, sorry, didn't notice that was you Gabriel.

Posted by: Conservatism Today at October 08, 2008 03:06 AM (D2ZFC)

32 I wouldn't be surprised if the mortgage idea revolves around comperables vs mortgage principle... your mortgage is adjusted to the comperable valuation based on market and the mortgage principle is adjusted to that. Don't have any idea how they would go about deciding what the new interest rate would be fixed at though... maybe current rate or LIBOR +/- or something... I would hope they will offer to double the tax deduction of anyone who refi-ed and paid points and closing costs to offset this giveaway for those who have good credit and are currently receiving squat under any of the bailouts... Candy for everyone.... though how this would affect appraisals for houses on the market (for sale) currently could be a problem...

Kinda like redlining all houses to the same value in a given neighborhood (based on SF or some such) and the government making up the diff between principle and market to the banks to reduce the overhead of the mortgage (and free up credit) and all mortgagees to AAA creditor rates...

Posted by: bmeuppls at October 08, 2008 03:15 AM (lNXkY)

He <Clinton> did get welfare reform passed...

What is this, creative history month? Clinton vetoed welfare reform twice and only finally approved it after the Republican congress gave it to him in a veto-proof package. Of course then the lying weasel tried to take credit for it.

Posted by: Vic at October 08, 2008 03:20 AM (b1ysY)

34 This is what I really hate about Obama - No matter what he had to be there first making a recommendation. In the debate this evening he said that in April he prepared a statement about Russian aggression in Georgia, it was ignored and we were taken by surprise. I looked around and this is the only statement that cames up on google:

Ukraine and Georgia have also been developing their ties with NATO. Their leaders have declared their readiness to advance a NATO Membership Action Plan, MAP, to prepare for the rights and obligations of membership. They are working to consolidate democratic reforms and to undertake new responsibilities in their relationship with the Alliance. I welcome the desire and actions of these countries to seek closer ties with NATO and hope that NATO responds favorably to their request, consistent with its criteria for membership. Whether Ukraine and Georgia ultimately join NATO will be a decision for the members of the alliance and the citizens of those countries, after a period of open and democratic debate. But they should receive our help and encouragement as they continue to develop ties to Atlantic and European institutions.

"NATO enlargement is not directed against Russia. Russia has an important role to play in European and global affairs and should see NATO as a partner, not as a threat. But we should oppose any efforts by the Russian government to intimidate its neighbors or control their foreign policies. Russia cannot have a veto over which countries join the alliance. Since the end of the Cold War, Republican and Democratic administrations have supported the independence and sovereignty of all the states of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, and we must continue to do so. President Putin recent threat to point missiles at Ukraine is simply not the way to promote the peaceful 21st century Europe we seek.

Do you think he maybe overstated his position and foresight a bit.

Posted by: chad at October 08, 2008 03:21 AM (YICPL)

Let us hope that McCain didn’t talk a lot of the base into staying at home with his “progressive populist mortgage” message. We still need Palin for 2012.

Posted by: Vic at October 08, 2008 03:24 AM (b1ysY)

If you go to the Drudge site you can only vote on the Drudge poll. If you also want to vote in the AOL poll which has the Vomit leading go to this sitehttp://tinyurl.com/kl7nb

Posted by: Vic at October 08, 2008 03:28 AM (b1ysY)

37 when a former clinton supporter comes over to our side, why the heck would you guys start pounding on him/her?

Isn't the idea supposed to be liberals chase heretics, conservatives chase converts?

Why the eff are you chasing the heretic?

Posted by: ace at October 08, 2008 03:38 AM (1WR4H)

38 seriously, guys. You guys talk about outreach and GOTV but when the opportunity presents itself you're telling a clinton supporter -- who could join the Dark Side -- about the Clinton rape thing.

Come on. Be a little politic in your politics.

ppp,

Welcome.

Posted by: ace at October 08, 2008 03:41 AM (1WR4H)

39 Yeah, yeah, I know.

But as I noted, I still would've voted for Hil...

Besides, he/she is 23 -- probably never saw the Lisa Myers interview. God, if YouTube had existed in those days! That thing got flushed down the memory hole faster than the SNL skit of truth.

Posted by: someone at October 08, 2008 03:51 AM (2z2WN)

40 Actually, Ace, I don't remember where 1999 was in your own road to Damascus.

Did you watch the interview? Were you off his bandwagon already?

Posted by: someone at October 08, 2008 04:02 AM (2z2WN)

41 @20 Welcome... and frankly I think Mccain won't let you down too much. He's not here to serve the right... just the whole country.

Ace, the chart can't be simplified much further. I like the format a lot. This is the only debate I've missed, but I think your chart is all I need.

From the clips I did see, Mccain was smart to pretend he was going to hammer the fuck out of Obama. Obama was supposed to win this debate on the economy, and he simply didn't if he was too worried about Mccain... and on too adversarial and obnoxious a footing. I kinda believe that anyway. I think Obama has no inherent ability to defend himself. Letting his surrogates do it lets him off easy. Obama, when faced with cutting attacks, I think would blow up or otherwise mess up.

Mccain better hope he can get the truth about Obama out there...

Posted by: Shill at October 08, 2008 05:03 AM (8jYMc)

An open "Dear John" letter to Senator McCain:

Dear John,

There's no easy way to say this, so I'll get right to it.

Your relationship with your reflection is obviously far more important to you than this election, or the survival of our nation.

You and I are through.

On each and every issue you had a pronounced advantage. Logic and reason (and popular opinion) had forced Democrats to move to the right on almost every national issue. Yet, you still managed to blow it.

Democrats and their media allies had spent years assuring us that the Iraq War was "unwinnable", a "quagmire" and "worse than Vietnam". We conservatives persevered, supported the surge, and saw such dramatic successes that the media stopped reporting on Iraq altogether.

Conservatives forced Democrats to move to the right on energy. Obama began this campaign militantly opposed to offshore oil drilling and nuclear power. Reality intervened. He now claims to support both.

What happened to the Democrat Party's all-gay-marriage, all-the-time chatter? Didn't they assure us that the American public attached the utmost importance to advancing the gay marriage issue? Well, looky there. Obama no longer supports gay marriage....

Remember Obama's youtube pledge to disarm this nation, gut our military, and stop all funding for National Missile Defense? Obama now claims to support National Missile Defense.

Did you notice a certain reticence on the parts of both Obama and the press regarding the subjects of immigration, abortion and gun control? (NO questions on ANY of the above? Hmmmm.Wonder why.)

Yep, Obama had been forced (by fact, reason, common sense, public opinion) to move to the RIGHT on all of these issues, or, if not to move right, to at least shut his mouth about his unpopular stances, in an effort to shield them from public scrutiny....

....and you couldn't take advantage of it.

Only you could screw this up, Senator McCain.

Only YOU could blather on and on about "bipartisanship", when you obviously define that word as "I sold out my own party (again)".

When have you ever required your Democrat colleagues to walk in YOUR direction, Senator McCain?

Remember the Media's incessant calls for "bipartisanship" during the Clinton years?

We haven't heard ANY media calls for "bipartisanship" during the last eight years, have we?

Nope.

Not after the worst terrorist attacks in history, and not even when we're at War in two nations....

And John McCain, War Hero, survivor of the Hanoi Hilton, can't summon the courage to take on our goddamned Treason Press, that one "special interest" which has done more harm to this nation than any other....

....nor can he bring himself to take a swing at that empty suit Obama standing across the room.

Shit.

Thanks for wasting my time, Grampy McMaverick!

Thanks for running against your own party!

Thanks for the relentless narcissism!

Thanks for trying to appeal to 22% of the populace!

We have some lovely parting gifts for you!

(I've even nominated you for "Miss Congeniality"! Hope that makes you feel better!)

Posted by: flatwater at October 08, 2008 05:26 AM (XWJh5)

43 I think McCain hurt himself last night by promising to reduce principle on homeowner's who can't pay their mortgages. I'm not sure what the price tag on that is ... but the figure $300 billion plus was batted around by the pundits afterwards.

This makes McCain no different than Obama on this. In fact, this makes McCain no different than ACORN on this.

I mean he literally said that the houses were not valued as much as they were when these folks bought them - so they stopped paying the mortgage. What the hell? All of our houses went down in value - yet the majority of us still pay our mortgages because ... THAT'S LIFE. What message does this send to the people who have kept paying their mortgages because it was the right thing to do?

Obviously ... it wasn't the right thing for us to keep paying them! So now McCain is on the Obama Express of Personal Irresponsibility.

I'm so pissed right now I can barely type this.

Posted by: HondaV65 at October 08, 2008 06:26 AM (9vlDt)

Glad to see that you have found the whitespace problem on the comments page.

I find your cheatsheets to be a great help. Can't think of any improvements atm.

Posted by: Cluebat from Exodar at October 08, 2008 06:52 AM (Mv/2X)

45 Time consumed at the top/bottom of each response would be helpful.

Posted by: George D at October 08, 2008 08:02 AM (KyPsh)

46 One important thing I don't see in the table -- McCain pressed Obama on the "fine" -- the "pay" rate in his "play or pay" health care plan.

Obama never said what it was. McCain reminded us he hadn't.

That's actually crucial since the behavior of the system ("play" versus "pay") is very very sensitive to the charge on nonparticipating employers to fund the public option.

Posted by: DrSteve at October 08, 2008 08:13 AM (yAYpL)

47 Gabriel - the table is great, keep it. Oh and thanks. It's very helpful.

Posted by: Hartsfeld at October 08, 2008 08:14 AM (Vi57P)

48 I watched the World Series of Poker instead. Looks like I didn't miss anything.

Posted by: fossten at October 08, 2008 08:33 AM (uHiz2)

49 This is great, I read at 2000 wpm, and people hardly ever speak above 300 wpm. A great time saver.

Posted by: Don Meaker at October 08, 2008 08:33 AM (SybPa)

seriously, guys. You guys talk about outreach and GOTV but when the opportunity presents itself you're telling a clinton supporter -- who could join the Dark Side -- about the Clinton rape thing.

This is what I was talking about. You have a mission. That mission is to persuade the opposition to join our side with our acknowledged warts and all that everyone has. In doing so you recommend that we not respond (it was a response to a Bill Clinton is good comment) with the hard truth as it may turn this convert off.

Same theory should be used with your candidate once he or she has been chosen. The time for criticism is before or after the election. During the election everything should be awesomely awesome if the goal of the mission is to have your candidate elected. Why give the opposition an assist. Again constructive criticism on campaign strategy is a different animal.

Posted by: polynikes at October 08, 2008 08:39 AM (m2CN7)

51 Great work!

Posted by: drjohn at October 08, 2008 08:45 AM (OzbW9)

52 "18 No one wants to answer my question?

Where exactly was McCain supposed to jam in his 10-minute expose about Ayers?

Posted by: someone at October 08, 2008 02:13 AM (2z2WN) "

I'll take a shot: Maverick McMaverickson should have "jammed" it in at the earliest possible time. Gosh, did Bambi mention education? Let me tell you about his terrorist professor friend. Did he mention the economy? His terrorist friend wants a communist economy. Did he mention terrorism? Let me tell you about his terrorist friend. Did he mention getting Osama? Why doesn't he bring his terrorist buddy some swift justice? Did he talk about how great America is (OK, maybe not)? His terrorist buddy hates America.

It ain't rocket surgery. If a damned politician whose been at it for more than a quarter of a century can't get his message out, he's incompetent.

Would that Mav attacked Democrats as well as he attacks Republicans.

Posted by: FUBAR at October 08, 2008 08:45 AM (HrVHr)

He should have shoved it in on the fourth question, after shoving in FM/FM on the first or third.

Didn't do either. Even a minute would have been good. Instead, nothing.

Posted by: Francase at October 08, 2008 08:57 AM (nrLPb)

Ace,

seriously, guys. You guys talk about outreach and GOTV but when the opportunity presents itself you're telling a clinton supporter -- who could join the Dark Side -- about the Clinton rape thing.

In other words:

Go heavy on the lube with the noobs. Ease them into the dark side.

Posted by: Former Lurker at October 08, 2008 08:58 AM (wgLRl)

55 Does anyone know where I can get a T-shirt that says "One man's uniter is another man's dictator"?

Posted by: JohnJ at October 08, 2008 09:02 AM (jaQd4)

Q "How can we trust either of you when both parties got us into this financial crisis?"

Who is this idiot?

Posted by: Cincinnatus at October 08, 2008 09:07 AM (ZAlQ3)

How can we trust either of you when both parties got us into this financial crisis?"

The thing that got me on that one was once again McLame passed up a chance for a walk-off home run on a hanging curve. He should have torn into the Obama and the Dems on that one with an opening statement to the effect that BOTH parties did NOT get us into this mess. The public is being systematically lied to by the media, including Fox, and the only place this shit is being refuted is out here on sites like this. Now I know Ace has a wide readership, but it doesn’t come close to matching all of the media combined.

This shit is really beginning to piss me off.

Posted by: Vic at October 08, 2008 09:17 AM (b1ysY)

58 Nice job, Gabriel - great summary; very helpful. Keep it up. Someone said "mucho trackbacks on the way" and I agree. (Had missed the VP one and I saw that debate: your summaries were spot on there, so am sure about this summary too.)

Posted by: no one you know at October 08, 2008 09:35 AM (MiCSn)

59 Thanks!!!

I believe Ed at hot-air has something someone at NRO has promised one and I expect more than one NRO-nik to produce one. I doubt anyone else make as good a presentation, though Nordlinger at NRO is usually pretty complete -- if sketchy.

Yes. McCain won on content. We know the MSM is in the tank and that Bambi will dissemble* at-will. However, we should probably save the wrist-slashing until after the 3rd debate. There is a tactical case to be made for hitting Bambi when he has no further opportunity to spin, especially with all the resources at his disposal. Hitting him really hard at the right time may reduce him to his usual state when he's suffering teleprompter withdrawal. So far he's been compensating by taking at least a full day off before each debate to cram.

* Mark Levin, iirc, used this word on the corner in response to the first debate. It's so much more polite than the L-word.

Posted by: gh at October 08, 2008 09:42 AM (EhUaQ)

60 Coulter had a good point on Fox this morning. Brokaw picked the most boring questions out of the thousands of possibilities. And the "what don't you know and when did you not know it question" (and I paraphrase slightly) was a classic example of why people on drugs should not be allowed to vote.

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Posted by: McCarroll at October 08, 2008 09:51 AM (ewDgf)

62 Oh, and the cheat sheet is great. Maybe add direct quotes of one-liners, abject lies, etc.

Posted by: FUBAR at October 08, 2008 09:54 AM (HrVHr)

63 McCain should be responding to the housing crisis with Rezko, responding to Osama bin Laden with Ayers, and responding to questions about the American dream with Wright. Obama keeps skating on these with "This is not the [insert freak here] I knew because they're spaced apart. Kinda like getting attacked by a pack of five-year-olds - one at a time, they're easy to toss aside, but after a while they wear you down, knock you over, and start chewing on your bones and flesh and stealing your wallet.

(I had a rough time with the kiddos yesterday, it's still wearing on me)

Posted by: Alice H at October 08, 2008 09:56 AM (jRtPb)

64 Thank you Gabe. A very minor suggestion: make sure everything that isn't their words is in brackets, like "Obama tries to but in. TB doesn't allow." Oh, and I guess that should be "butt".

Posted by: MamaAJ at October 08, 2008 09:57 AM (X6Zdh)

65 Great job, Gabe! This is an invaluable service.

I tried to watch, but it was so unspeakably annoyingly lame that blood started pouring out my ears. So, I just tried to follow via the debate thread. Not effective.

One suggestion: Instead of trying to crib Obama's answers, I think you would better convey his message by inserting this image:

Hope, Change, Rainbows & Unicorn Farts

Posted by: Che Pizza at October 08, 2008 09:57 AM (RLBRw)

66 Ditto Hartsfield #47. Good presentation. Kernel info. Acceptable (denaturable) bias.

Posted by: Gus Bailey at October 08, 2008 10:12 AM (LZarw)

67 What I could not get over, is how repetitive the questions were for the first part of the debate. How many bailout questions were needed for the first 35 minutes? This whole format needs to be done away with, the questioners are insipid, the moderator would not allow back and forth between the candidates so what we were left with was a boring sub-par debate. I hope the third one will be better, but to be honest I think after this debate no one will be watching.

Posted by: Nancy at October 08, 2008 10:21 AM (x1pTF)

We're focusing on what McCain said or didn't say , but shouldn't we be listening to Obama?

"9/11 WAS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY."

WTF? He gets away with saying that? 9/11 was a tragedy, not a "Missed Opportunity."

If Obama becomes Commander & Chief will he take advantage of a "Missed Opportunity?" What does that mean --Let's bend over while the terrorists hit us again so Obama can ask Americans to....what? What will he do in a Missed Opportunity...WHAT WILL HE ASK/DEMAND/LEGISLATE OF US?

Can a trolling Obama-cult follower splain it to us? I'd really like to know cause Obama's words scared the crap out of me.

Posted by: annoyedashell at October 08, 2008 10:46 AM (qtzUT)

No, I think you're on the right track. I missed the debate, and wanted to get a nice synopsis type recap instead of one-theme posts on HA or somewhere else.

Nice job.

Posted by: James at October 08, 2008 10:48 AM (n7Jpy)

Instalanche incoming!

Posted by: Cluebat from Exodar at October 08, 2008 11:23 AM (Mv/2X)

71 Gabriel, really excellent job on the cheat sheet, thanks!!

#20 ppp: I also want to welcome you and thank you for your comments. I hope you are right when you say you have a lot of company in rethinking your position.

Posted by: CB at October 08, 2008 11:38 AM (9Wv2j)

72 Good job, Ace.

Best debate fact sheet I've ever seen.

Don't shorten it a bit. Digital space is cheap.

Posted by: McGuyver at October 08, 2008 11:43 AM (T4oO7)

73 A fact sheet that even morons could understand. Which when you think about it is in a class by itself.

Posted by: Jack is Back! at October 08, 2008 12:24 PM (wy5Y+)

6 "Maybe scrap the table entirely and use an outline?" - do you have something that can scrap the last month entirely and use some Jack Daniels?

THREAD WINNER

Best Regards

Posted by: ATNorth at October 08, 2008 12:24 PM (3h3kv)

75 But the work Bill and a republican congress did over his 8 years was amazingly productive.

In comparison to the prospective Era of the Lightworker, LBJ is looking better.

Posted by: toby928 at October 08, 2008 01:14 PM (evdj2)

76 Good job, Ace.

This was put together by Gabriel Malor actually. Instapundit probably should have said "From Ace's blog" rather than "From Ace".

Posted by: dan-O at October 08, 2008 01:19 PM (teb/C)

77 McCain wants to buy all failing mortgages with half of the bailout cash? IS that true? I just read that on Drudge.

If so, looks like I may start defaulting on my payments. I mean, why should I pay when it seems no one else is going to?

Posted by: toxicavenger at October 08, 2008 02:00 PM (5MTmq)

78 "If so, looks like I may start defaulting on my payments. I mean, why should I pay when it seems no one else is going to?"

Wish I had payments to default on, but stupid me, I paid off my mortgage in full about a year and a half ago.

"I'm debt freeeeeeeeeeeeeee (and a sucker, evidently.)"

Posted by: notropis at October 08, 2008 02:14 PM (X5MOy)

Gabriel,

If the election were tomorrow, who would you vote for.... or could I guess!!!!

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