"Constitutional Law Scholar" Biden's Article I Gaffe
I flubbed this during the liveblog, but it's an important gaffe from so-called constitutional expert Joe Biden. He said:
"Vice President Cheney has probably been the most dangerous Vice President we've had in American history. He has the idea...he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the Vice President of the United States. That's the executive. He works in the executive branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that. And the primary role of the Vice President of the United States of America is to support the President of the United States of America. Give that President his or her best judgment when sought and as the Vice President to preside over the senate only in a time when in fact there is a tie vote. The constitution is explicit, the only authority the Vice President has from a legislative standpoint is to vote only when there is a tie vote. He has no authority relative to the Congress. The idea that he's a part of the legislative branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney to aggrandize the power of the unitary executive..and look where it's gotten us.Biden is just plain wrong about this. First of all, Article I defines the legislative branch, including its composition and the scope of its powers and the powers and privileges of its members. Article I, sec. 3, clause 4 is the first time the Vice President is mentioned in the Constitution. It gives the Vice President an important role to play:
The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.The Constitution goes on to direct the Senate to chose a President pro tempore to preside over the Senate in the VP's absence. Though it is not explicitly stated, the VP is also the President of the Senate during all trials of impeachments other than trials of the President. In other words, when Biden says that the VP has "no authority relative to the Congress" the truth is actually that the VP has a special authority, reserved to no other unless the VP chooses to let another wield it. Article II does not extend to the VP any executive powers. Sections 2 and 3 specifically grant duties and powers to the President; the VP goes unmentioned. In fact, Article II provides for compensation for the President, but doesn't direct the VP to receive anything! So Joe Biden is talking out his ass when he says "Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the Vice President of the United States. That's the executive. He works in the executive branch." Article I doesn't define the VP's executive roles. In fact, neither does Article II, because the VP has no role to play within the executive branch except to take over in case of death or incapacitation of the President. Now, this wouldn't ordinarily be all that big of a deal, but Joe Biden is supposed to be Mr. Big Constitutional Lawyer who is going to cure all the excesses of Darth Cheney. But it doesn't seem like he's got much of a grasp of the Constitution at all. Nowhere in the Constitution does it give the Vice President the "primary role ... to support the President of the United States of America." Under the Constitution, the VP only has two things to do: break ties in the Senate and wait for the President to die. The relationship between the Vice President and the President has varied from administration to administration and it has no basis in the Constitution. It's good modern policy, but remember that in the original scheme of things the President and the VP were usually competitors. The President is well within his rights to kick the VP out in the cold.
Comments
Both Nixon and Johnson were very active VP's, with Johnson having a particularly strong voice in shaping policy.
Posted by: Monty at October 02, 2008 11:12 PM (dCZbI)
The unitary executive has nothing to do with the VP and in fact bringing it up contradicts the point Biden was trying to make.
It's just a scary buzz word for the left (like 'neo-con') but in reality how does claiming that the VP is part of the executive branch help create a unitary executive and give more power to the executive branch? It doesn't. It was just Biden having diarrhea of the mouth.
If Palin had made a mistake like this, she'd be getting killed and rightly so.
Posted by: DrewM. at October 02, 2008 11:14 PM (hlYel)
It's just a scary buzz word for the left (like 'neo-con') but in reality how does claiming that the VP is part of the executive legislative branch help create a unitary executive and give more power to the executive branch? It doesn't. It was just Biden having diarrhea of the mouth.
Posted by: DrewM. at October 02, 2008 11:15 PM (hlYel)
It's older and more important with better Articles.
Posted by: Rocks at October 02, 2008 11:15 PM (7rbe9)
Two words: Aaron Burr.
Joe Biden is an idiot and a liar. Too bad he wasn't called on more of his lies tonight.
Posted by: Nom de Plume at October 02, 2008 11:18 PM (Vc0ra)
Posted by: kal at October 02, 2008 11:18 PM (5j/Xg)
He's going back to the hotel right now (probably).
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Posted by: kal at October 02, 2008 11:21 PM (5j/Xg)
Posted by: DrewM. at October 02, 2008 11:28 PM (hlYel)
Biden must have been thinking about the Constitution 2.0 that Obama plans to implement.
How long has this buffoon been on the Judiciary Committee again?
Posted by: SamIam at October 02, 2008 11:37 PM (eXAlO)
Posted by: Nom de Plume at October 02, 2008 11:38 PM (Vc0ra)
Two words: Aaron Burr.
Yeah, he actually killed the man he shot. Also arrested and tried for treason, but was acquitted.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at October 02, 2008 11:45 PM (fimyE)
Two words: Aaron Burr.
One word: Algore
Posted by: Reiver at October 02, 2008 11:59 PM (lcnlv)
Now if the concern is actually about power in the hands of government employees make sure to avoid the Pelosi-Schumer-Dodd-Frank-Obama axis. If the concern is about power in the hands of "the wrong people", can't help there except to recommend therapy.
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Darth Biden, perhaps?
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Posted by: Grand Moff Biden at October 03, 2008 04:08 AM (MY+kJ)
However, if the "Vice-President" is mentioned in Article I, and you concede that "It gives the Vice President an important role to play:
'The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided' "
then where did Biden err?
(My initial reaction was also that Article I deals with the legislative branch and Article II with the executive.)
Posted by: Sisyphus at October 03, 2008 04:15 AM (Vp006)
Ah, poor Aaron Burr. So unfairly maligned throughout history.
He was actually a good Vice President, and played an important role in stopping Jefferson from turning the judicial branch into the President's bitch.
And Aaron Burr was a badass to boot.
Posted by: Justin at October 03, 2008 04:30 AM (ULn5q)
Every one of us picked up on the same thing.
When Biden emphasized that the vice president had NO constitutional role in the legislature, immediately before that he had said his primary role in an Obama administration would involve working with the legislature. We understood what he meant, but it did seem like a contradiction.
Posted by: JeanneB at October 03, 2008 06:04 AM (wcrk5)
Posted by: Chas at October 03, 2008 08:33 AM (tf4qU)
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at October 03, 2008 09:12 AM (rWvvO)
You may well be correct. But I understood that Eisenhower despised Nixon and kept him out of the loop as much as possible. So how Nixon is perceived to have been a very active VP would be news to me.
It would be a different ball of wax as POTUS as Nixon pushed for more Executive Power as did all presidents of the late 20th Century, combating Congress that was pushing simultaneously for more Legislative Power. (At least that's how Arizona's 5th District Congressman Harry Mitchell taught government class as memory recalls--and hi to any readers from THS).
No one in Arizona while Sandra Day O'Connor served there seemed during the Nixon era to talk on Main Street so much about SCOTUS activism even as the Judicial Branch was becoming Liberal. But contextually, that was before America realized Classical Liberalism had been assassinated by the radical Left, and how far and what all the Left would do from the bench in the guise of "tolerance" that isn't tolerant at all.
So it seemed anyway.
Posted by: I ain't Obama's granny at October 03, 2008 09:55 AM (F1b/5)
Posted by: maverick muse at October 03, 2008 10:02 AM (F1b/5)
Posted by: laughterunbound at October 03, 2008 10:11 AM (g8nb4)
Here's Biden's gaffe in his own words:
"he (Cheney) doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the Vice President of the United States. That's the executive."
No Slow Joe, Article I outlines the Legislative Branch, the executive is in Article II.
Constitutional scholar my ass.
Posted by: DrewM. at October 03, 2008 10:35 AM (hlYel)
''The President is well within his rights to kick the VP out in the cold ''
above
Wrong the VP is elected by the people.The President cannot just get rid of or replace the VP .
Posted by: Timbo at October 03, 2008 11:08 AM (hZP7W)
If ya'll recall, originally the second place presidential finisher served as Vice President. In such a case it is impossible to believe that the writers of the constitution thought "the primary role of the Vice President of the United States of America is to support the President of the United States of America" as Biden puts it. In fact, the VP was the guy the President just defeated in an election.
The Constitution was amended as to the selection of the VP after that didn't work out, but AFAIK the constitutional functions of the VP were never changed.
Posted by: Ken at October 03, 2008 11:26 AM (vgyJ5)
Posted by: Ken at October 03, 2008 11:26 AM (vgyJ5)
Posted by: The Pedant at October 03, 2008 11:56 AM (21H5U)
What Biden said was that the VPOTUS has no LEGISLATIVE function (i.e., law making function) other than casting a vote in the event of a tie. The function of presiding is merely a procedural function (as is the presiding over an impeachment). To somehow suggest that the VPOTUS is member of the legislative branch ignores an important fact. The office of the VPOTUS is created by Article II of the Constitution, which establishes the office and the process of electing the VP. Without Article II, there is no VPOTUS to fulfill the limited role delineated in Article I.
In the midst of a debate, the phrasing of a sentence can sometimes get a bit garbled. But his point was clear: Cheney has been a dangerous VPOTUS.
Posted by: Mark Pecot at October 03, 2008 12:31 PM (PT50v)
Posted by: Elliott at October 03, 2008 01:29 PM (mLMIZ)
Posted by: fairandbalanced at October 03, 2008 05:23 PM (5Envs)
Perhaps Biden wasn't as meticulous or linear in his argument as you would have liked, but he was correct in what he said.
And compared to Palin and her circular and mis-informed non-answers, he sounded like an astro-physicist.
Posted by: jess at October 03, 2008 05:50 PM (0FEEn)
IT doesn't make any sense to say that the VP doesn't vote unless there is a tie. This is the same thing as him being in the Senate and having a vote. In any odd number of people, no single vote matters unless all of the other votes have ended in a tie. Let's say that the VP had a full vote and there were therefore 101 Senate votes. If the other 100 votes were even 51-49 either way, the VPs vote would be irrelevant. He can have a vote or not have a vote, it doesn't make a difference. The only time his vote would make a difference is if everyone else ended up in a tie. But this is true for each of the other votes as well. Nancy Pelosi's vote would only matter if the 99 other Senators and the VP added up to a tie.
I think the VP position would have a lot more relevance and respect if the drafters had said the VP has a full vote instead of saying he can only vote in a tie. And the more I think about the constitution in general, the more I think that the draftes were not as bright as we imagine they were.
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Dale's ECB
Election Projection
Federal Review
Real Clear Politics
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Gallup
Zogby
FoxNews Polls
Sabato/Crystal Ball
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Democratic Forays into Erotica
New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network
Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes
Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse
Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party"
Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad
Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up
Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry
NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom
Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?"
Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind
All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd
Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran
Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore
Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery
Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile
Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance
Collective Names for Groups of People
John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets
Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle
Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy
Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive"
Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments
John Edwards Campaign Excuses
John Kerry Pick-Up Lines
Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney
Torments in Dog-Hell
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)