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Biden's 14 Lies

Fresh from the McCain people.

JOE BIDENS 14 LIES TONIGHT

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted the exact same way as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, Drill we must. But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to raping the Outer Continental Shelf.

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of its passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says hes always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCains record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was dead wrong on Iraq, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldnt see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesnt meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

Posted by: Ace at 10:45 PM



Comments

1 The O'bama "lies" meme is gonna have no effect... TEFLON GOVERNOR!!!

Posted by: Editor at October 02, 2008 10:47 PM (p4YSL)

2 Only 14? Seems kinda low.

Posted by: shibumi at October 02, 2008 10:49 PM (tZB/c)

3 Considering that Obama keeps trying to hammer McCain as some kind of Luddite his camp has been amazingly effective at putting out fast response on the internet.

Posted by: Ryan Frank at October 02, 2008 10:50 PM (tPQKj)

4 Biden was fibbing with virtually every response he gave

Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 02, 2008 10:52 PM (Xl9pj)

5 Joe looks like crap. He will be replaced for health reasons.

Posted by: billypaintbrush at October 02, 2008 10:54 PM (5RjUC)

6 FUH. KING. SWEET. McCain hits hard, hits fast. Remember, it's our job to spread the message. The MSM will rewrite history to back up Joe.

Posted by: EnochF at October 02, 2008 10:55 PM (VXm6y)

7

Magic Sarah kicked some ass tonight. I can't believe she said, "Say it ain't so, Joe." That was fucking awesome.

On another note: I don't want to make anyone jealous, but I clearly saw Sarah wink at me twice tonight.  

Posted by: jaleach at October 02, 2008 10:55 PM (gHrZU)

8 How about:

Joe Biden lied about the cause of our economic meltdown. Everyone at Fannie and Freddie should be investigated to within an inch of their life.

Posted by: Al at October 02, 2008 10:56 PM (Lk931)

9 Hey Joe - two middle-fingers up.

Posted by: profligatewaste at October 02, 2008 10:57 PM (s65nF)

10 hey Ace of Spades HQ is going to hit 30 million visitors in the next 3-4 days (my estimate)

oh look, CBS poll has Biden as the winner by a 2-to-1 margin. Okay. Sure.

Posted by: Bart at October 02, 2008 10:58 PM (mlzcK)

11 Obama/Biden = liars

McCain/Palin = asskickers and nametakers!


Posted by: Eeyore's Swinging Sack at October 02, 2008 10:58 PM (VYEVW)

12 I caught #4 myself. Biden gave it away when he started giving details, about $1.6B for some acronym, and a timeline. Iraq costs over $100B. That one wasn't about funding the troops.


Posted by: Anonymous Coward at October 02, 2008 10:59 PM (iQZ3a)

13 Ryan Frank:
It's gotta be eVIL j mCcAIN posting all by himself. I'm pretty sure the whole "torture" thing is a evil rethug lie...

The debate was interesting...Mr. Stumbles did better that I thought he would, and Ms. Love taBanger was great, too...but in a soccer/hockey mom kind of way.

Barf.

Still, I want her a heartbeat away from the prezidenzy. Rather than Slow Joe. I'd actually love to see her in the slot. What fun!

Posted by: Standing Calf at October 02, 2008 10:59 PM (6RjtV)

14 Teh Fred had a list of Biden's "misrepresentations" as well.

Posted by: Reiver at October 02, 2008 11:00 PM (lcnlv)

15 Chris Matthews just said that Palin's answers were all coached and that she was lucky not to get any suprise type questions.

Posted by: Joe NYC at October 02, 2008 11:01 PM (pK9zD)

16 I wonder if she can stand in for McCain in his next debate?

Posted by: profligatewaste at October 02, 2008 11:04 PM (s65nF)

17

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

I would add that:

a) Who matters here is Petreaus..McKiernan is not going to get to do what Petreaus did and run the war from outside CentCom.  Those generals on the ground are still the "old" Pentagon generals who are highly adverse to risk.  Petraeus is going to push past that.

b) Um..McKiernan said the surge won't work in Afghanistan but Obama wants to send more troops (too late, more going in January) and spend more on reconstruction.  Pardon me, but isn't that a surge?

 

Posted by: kat-missouri at October 02, 2008 11:10 PM (YLs4U)

18 Well, I knew for a fact or felt my bullshit detector go off, assuming a lie, on nine of the fourteen points... and I'm a foreigner. I hope non-politically active Americans had their bullshit detectors go off too.

Posted by: andycanuck at October 02, 2008 11:10 PM (Mhm4L)

19 Claire McCaskill is heaping criticism on Bush and McCain, but doesn't feel confident enough to lay a finger on Palin!

Posted by: EnochF at October 02, 2008 11:13 PM (VXm6y)

20 Joe's eye socket should be sore from Sarah's strap-on

Posted by: Countrysquire at October 02, 2008 11:15 PM (mLhnS)

21

Joe NYC, Surely you don't watch Prissie Crissie. Keep that up and people will wonder about your gender.

The 14 lies are only the ones that stood out immediately. No matter how many lies he tells it's like Hussein O's over 150 verified outright lies, the media is in the tank and will ignore them.

Posted by: Scrapiron at October 02, 2008 11:16 PM (XWJh5)

22

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, Drill we must. But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to raping the Outer Continental Shelf.

Opposed oil drilling and stuffed the energy bill full of tax breaks for their energy friends like ComEd who actually called Obama and urged him back to the Senate to vote for the bill.  Even though it had those evil tax breaks for oil in it.

 

Posted by: kat-missouri at October 02, 2008 11:16 PM (YLs4U)

23 We have internet traffic problems here. At least I do. All said, listening to MSNBC and Fox, the only question is by how much Palin won by. Just a little, or a lot. Only kool-aid drinkers could say differerently. Therefore, since Palin was supposed to get her ass kicked, this is a momentum changer,and the campaign starts on a brand new foundation.

Posted by: Lee at October 02, 2008 11:18 PM (Xb3DR)

24 he was turning Japanese with each dagger, and I don't mean in the "self-pleasuring" way. Joe really shouldn't have gone the budget route on face-lifts

Posted by: Frank G at October 02, 2008 11:18 PM (P0rQD)

25 Who else thinks she was sandbagging for her last two TV interviews so she could ‘rope-a-dope’ Biden tonight?

Posted by: locomotivebreath1901 at October 02, 2008 11:25 PM (Oekhl)

26 "3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, Drill we must. But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to raping the Outer Continental Shelf."


Demonstrating how out of touch he is, Biden even said, "uuuh Drill Drill Drill...yeah....I creep middle aged ladies out at go to home depot!"

...and Sarah called him out on it. 

Posted by: kal at October 02, 2008 11:26 PM (5j/Xg)

27 Re the Afghanistan alleged lie: McKiernan is the head of ISAF in Afghanistan and not the top military commander in Iraq, so whatever he has said proves nothing about what the to commander in Iraq has said.  I seem to remember Petreus indeed claiming that the surge would not work in Afghanistan.

Posted by: knowledge at October 02, 2008 11:36 PM (WVrWs)

28

And my b.s. detector went off for an early Biden comment. Nothing huge, but when he said, roughly, 'I was talking to ordinary Tom Shmoe yesterday and I asked him how much it cost to fill his car, and he told me that he couldn't afford to drive his car anymore, so he didn't know how much it cost to fill it.'

I noticed that Biden did give a very specific name, undoubtedly a Party organiser plant, who could undoubtedly be checked-up-on by the MSM to see that Joe wasn't lying about it. But does anyone really believe that, especially after months of dropping gasoline prices let alone even at the peak of X months ago, that someone couldn't afford to fill their car at all?

I recall from NewsBusters at the height of the gasoline price rise that the MSM had had the same sort of b.s. about not being able to afford food and gasoline, so "many" Americans were going without one or the other. Yeah, right.

Posted by: andycanuck at October 02, 2008 11:55 PM (Mhm4L)

29

See, this proves the American people want Obama. I lied about his record, tried to make him sound moderate, and I got killed in the debate. Ipso facto, if I'd told the truth about how far to the left Obama is, I'd have won the debate in a landslide.

Now tell me, didn't I look as good on TV as FDR did after his presidential speech in October 1929?

Posted by: Joe Biden at October 02, 2008 11:55 PM (LfNUQ)

30 How d'ya know Joe is lyin'?  His mouth is flappin'.

Posted by: starboardhelm at October 02, 2008 11:57 PM (4r9Vh)

31

Biden said that Obama had worked with senator Lugar on a bill to control trafficing of Nuclear weapons.  As I understand it the Lugar bill was from long before Obama came to the Senate.  All Obama did was to work with someone else on a minor ammendment that had nothing to do with nukes, but just extended the same protocols to certain types of conventional weapons.

 

I'm sure others will find more inaccuracies in Bidens statements.

Posted by: fast richard at October 03, 2008 12:07 AM (3u/pA)

32

I especially several places:

First she said "There you go again Joe" picking up on the famous Reagan line;

Second when she said clearly she was not part of the Washington establishment where you say one thing and mean another.

 

 

Posted by: John Steele at October 03, 2008 12:07 AM (UtsE7)

33 Brilliant move to compare Biden's comments about Obama when he was running against him to now (that he thinks Obama is some perfect ascended being).
And brilliant how Biden is proud as can be about pioneering the "Borking" of
judicial nominees because they don't have the "right" set of values.

Oh, really Joe?

Posted by: Brilliant Anachronism at October 03, 2008 12:15 AM (MSzn9)

34 Wont all your shills be embarrassed when proved wrong in a few weeks.
Palin was weaker than Alan Keyes

Posted by: Jackie Oh at October 03, 2008 12:30 AM (6NXcE)

35 Senator Biden is a typical democrat and a typical politician,  He, however, should have known better than to get his facts wrong, or, was he just out and out lying?  Democrats might as well resign to the fact that the Republicans are going to have the first female VP, and then of course also the first female President.  Hillary just doesn't have what it takes!  Governor Palin is AWESOME and a real CLASS act.  Will the Clintons just go away now?

Posted by: Cat at October 03, 2008 12:33 AM (XWJh5)

36 I just walked back into the room as Rove was going off on Biden ticking off 10 absolute lies and 6 debatable untruths.    Allen Colms of course kept running his mouth.

But Rove pointed out an additional lie, in Joe's  explanation of the role of the VP, according to Rove, Biden quoted the wrong Article of the Constitution.
And again Colms got in the way of hearing the right of that.  That guy's even more useless than Biden.

Anyone catch that?


Posted by: Dotcoman at October 03, 2008 12:34 AM (PVUw3)

37 Lies are conscious misstatements of truth, so is Joltin' Joe Biden lying when he claims that he knows absolutely that global warming is all man made?
Or is he just "smarter" than the entire world scientific community and knows something  they don't, in an issue that has yet, and likely never will, to come to a definite consensus on the issue?
Either way he is absolutely full of crap and bluster.

Posted by: Brilliant Anachronism at October 03, 2008 12:41 AM (MSzn9)

38 ten bucks says msm doesn't mention a single biden lie but mentions anything they deem a lie by Palin.

Posted by: shane at October 03, 2008 12:42 AM (X01jM)

39 It's not a lie, Brilliant Anachronism, if you believe it's the truth.

Posted by: george costanza at October 03, 2008 12:46 AM (Mhm4L)

40 Biden stated that Pakistan's nukes can reach Israel. Does anyone know if that is correct?

Posted by: UpNights at October 03, 2008 12:59 AM (zon5P)

41 #15: Biden Said that the office of the VP is described by Article I of the Constitution (correct).  He said Article I is "The Executive Branch".  It is actually "The Legislative Branch".  Palin and Cheney are exactly right.  The VP and her staff are subject to US Law but are not subject to Executive Orders.

Posted by: Michael E. Stora, Ph.D. at October 03, 2008 01:03 AM (yMGZP)

42 I thought Palin kicked Bidens ass. She did more than hold her own and caught Biden on many lies and half truths. Way to go Sarah-barracuda!. This will change the momentum of the race. I think independants are going to go for McCain-Palin 2008

Posted by: Glen at October 03, 2008 01:13 AM (4gHqM)

43 I believe that he said that by supporting the extension of the Bush tax cuts McCain supports cutting taxes only for the rich and not the middle class when in fact we all know that there was an increase in the per child tax credit from $500 to $1,000 as well as a cut in their tax rate!

It's also annoying that they forget to point out that the top 10% paid a larger % of the tax revenues under the Bush tax years than they did under the Clinton years!

Posted by: brian at October 03, 2008 01:22 AM (/aOR0)

44 There's a lot of "kicked his ass" and violent references on this forum. You Republicans are an angry, violent bunch of people. Why is that?

Posted by: Scooby at October 03, 2008 01:36 AM (ZUpWX)

45

Palin was weaker than Alan Keyes

Most people are.  Dr. Keyes is a brilliant man and one of the best debaters and analysts of issues on the scene today.

I have been a proud supporter of Ambassador Keyes in more than one campaign.

Posted by: Timmer at October 03, 2008 01:47 AM (gJoDD)

46 The first thing I heard Olberman say, talking to the Gov? of Hawaii, was she didnt answer the questions, do you think that is an acceptable tactic?

WhhhaaaaTTTT!!?

Hasnt he ever watched Hillary - and Bill - Clinton? they were infuriating and notorious, masters of just switching on to the talking points and completely ignoring the question

I was laughing!

That - and they are saying. well, she was obviously coached - ignoring that of course, Obama prepped for what? A week?

Maybe thats it - prepped v coached - all in the characterization.

BUT - the big LIE that I have heard this past week - and Biden used it - is the statement, in answer to criticism of Obama's plan to raise taxes, that PEOPLE WOULD BE PAYING LESS THAN THEY WERE UNDER REAGAN.

Ummm, wasn't the tax rate under Reagan 70% And he reduced it to 50%? 38%? - I can't remember the details. Someone must know... but that gives Obama alot of room to RAISE taxes, and not be lying, exactly, just contorting the truth, and well, lying...

Posted by: Rose at October 03, 2008 01:52 AM (f4g+V)

47 Did anyone notice how Biden kept putting his hands on Palin's daughter at the end when they were talking? I would've bitch slapped him!

Posted by: Sam3 at October 03, 2008 01:59 AM (bgAJC)

48 Palin came across like someone reading off a teleprompter with rehearsed lines.  She was awful... like Dan Quayle awful.  I'm conservative, and I gotta say the Republicans have jumped the shark with McCain and Palin.  The only candidates worse than them are Obama and Biden.  What a complete clusterf*^% for the citizens of this country. 

Posted by: skeptic at October 03, 2008 02:06 AM (oWzG0)

49

There's also that fib about the role of the VP in the US Senate.

The VP of the United States is the President of the US Senate.

 

In fact... the US Senate web site says so.

Posted by: cowboy at October 03, 2008 02:12 AM (tAiCP)

50 Great debate, and I love Sarah, but I'm starting to wonder if I love her enough to overcome my disgust at Senator McCain's support of the obscene Bush-Paulson-Obama-Pelosi-Dodd-Reid-Frank's 700 billion, err, now 805 billion dollar "bailout (crap sandwich) bill".  Why did 74 senators just ignore what "we the people" want?

Oh - that's right, according to a certain (D) Senator we're against it because we're "ignorant and uninformed".

We need Sarah Palin at the TOP of the Republican ticket!! (And we need to start reminding 74 Senators - and ourselves - what RECALL PETITIONS and RECALL ELECTIONS are all about.)  Thank God that Sarah is just an election cycle away from the Presidency in 2012...

Posted by: JinnyB at October 03, 2008 04:25 AM (/lDn+)

51 Motion to dismiss in Berg vs. Barak Hussein O'bama- DENIED

PHILIP J. BERG, ESQUIRE, :
Plaintiff :
vs. :CIVIL ACTION NO: 08-cv- 04083
:
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, ET AL, :
Defendants :

ORDER ON DEFENDANTS, BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATIC
NATIONAL COMMITTEES MOTION TO DISMISS PLAINTIFFS
COMPLAINT PURSUANT TO RULE 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6)

THIS CAUSE came before the United States District Court Judge, Honorable R.
Barclay Surrick on Defendants Barack Hussein Obama and the Democratic National
Committees Motion to Dismiss. Having reviewed the Motion and Plaintiffs Opposition
to said Motion and for good cause shown, it is hereby ORDERED that the Motion to Dismiss pursuant to F.R.C.P. 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6) is DENIED.

It is further ORDER of this Court that the following discovery is
to be turned over to Plaintiff within three (3) days:

1. Obamas vault version (certified copy of his original long version)
Birth Certificate; and
2. A certified copy of Obamas Certification of Citizenship;
3. A Certified copy of Obamas Oath of Allegiance.

IT IS SO ORDERED

Posted by: JinnyB at October 03, 2008 04:41 AM (/lDn+)

52 Holy shit...what is this place?  A GOP circle jerk?  ROFL at all of you.

Posted by: Ich Bern Spizer at October 03, 2008 04:42 AM (Z/p9d)

53 Sarah P. proves that you don't have to be a long-in-the-tooth Washington insider to know your stuff. It's about time one of "us" got a turn at the wheel -- the "hockey moms" and "Joe Sixpacks" who know maybe know a little more about how the world works because we actually live in it! It's like what the internet has proven about journalism: if journalism was only left to the "experts", we wouldn't have  sites like "Stop the ACLU"!

Posted by: Mike Sterling at October 03, 2008 05:02 AM (kvl0C)

54 Plenty of us Aussies watched the debate too. I was gob-smacked at Biden's rendition of the Hezbollah-Israeli war, delivered with a straight face and all the tired gravitas he could muster.

Down here, we would call Biden a bullshit-artist.


Posted by: saint at October 03, 2008 07:13 AM (Tufyy)

55 If the young peaple do not wake up and see the obama is a fake and does not stand for something. We are in trouble. My 1st choice wae Fred. Stop doing what Hollywood tells you to do. They can not say married for more than a month,and they know what is best.

Posted by: Ryan at October 03, 2008 08:11 AM (B49NW)

56

For a guy who has been in the senate for over 30 yrs you would think that Joe would know that Article 1 of the constitution refers to the Legislative Branch and not to the Executive.

Posted by: kevin claytor at October 03, 2008 08:17 AM (H6Jf4)

57 More lies. He claimed the average cost of employer funded health insurance is $12,000. No way. He tried to claim that more was spent in Iraq in 3 weeks than in Afghanistan in 6.5 years. (or some such nonsense).

Posted by: jcp at October 03, 2008 08:18 AM (DHNp4)

58

How about the following Biden statement:

IFILL: Vice President Cheney's interpretation of the vice presidency?

BIDEN: Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history. The idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the Executive Branch.

Memo to Biden:  Article I defines the Legislative Branch.  And yes, it does contain a reference to the Vice President, but as President of the Senate, which is NOT the Executive Branch.  Dummy.

Posted by: Outlander at October 03, 2008 09:00 AM (9XX8d)

59 What about Biden saying that 95% of small business earns less than $250,000?

Sounds "made up".  Somebody check that out and get back to me.  Somebody else get me a cup of coffee and a danish.

Posted by: Dang at October 03, 2008 09:03 AM (XFyLb)

60 the debate was a clear win for Palin. it was sad to see Joe tell so many lies about McCains record. He knows that Obama is not ready to be president and he said that many times in the recent past. Now because he is the VP everything has changed. I liked Joe and he has been like McCain one who has held out his hand to the other party to get things done in the senate,maybe he thinks he can take control of the oval office like Dick has done . Anyway  I hope Mccain and Palin win in NOV.

Posted by: george searing at October 03, 2008 09:32 AM (lWCFm)

61 Only 14 lies? I know Joe Biden can lie more better than that! BO needs to school his pupil! Sheesh.

Posted by: torabora at October 03, 2008 09:42 AM (Oco7n)

62 You need to add #15: "we spend more on Iraq than we've spent in 7  years in Afghanistan".

Iraq expenditure per month:  10 billion
Afghanistan expenditures so far: 172 billion

Posted by: Calvin Dodge at October 03, 2008 09:45 AM (tQ0sW)

63

What about Biden saying that 95% of small business earns less than $250,000?

if by 'earns' he means the profit margin (revenue less loss), then his estimate is probably close.

Posted by: blogRot at October 03, 2008 09:49 AM (EKMxC)

64 Joe Biden LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE HANGING FROM A TELEPHONE WIRE SQUAWK SQUAWK SQUAWK

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at October 03, 2008 09:49 AM (tWXzp)

65 It would be a lot more useful if these debunking Biden's statements had links to source material.

1. How about to the roll call vote?
2. How about to a link that Obama said he would meet with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad as opposed to Iranian leaders?

and so on. I think both sides misrepresent issue, or straight out lie. But if you want to call them on it you really need to link to source material. Otherwise it comes off as drinking the Kool-Aid.

Posted by: EndTheEcho at October 03, 2008 10:14 AM (PSSzc)

66 I forgot about this one from Joe until I read Glenn Reynolds this morning:

"When we kicked -- along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said and Barack said, "Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't know -- if you don't, Hezbollah will control it." "

Boy, will the Israelis be relieved when they hear about this.

Posted by: Rich Berger at October 03, 2008 10:21 AM (86DWw)

67

Biden told us that the Spanish Government STILL has combat troops in IRAQ.

True? Thought they left after 2004 Spanish Elections?

Posted by: Bill at October 03, 2008 10:23 AM (AcDR/)

68 Not only was Joe fibbing, with such conviction, but he was mostly talking to Gwen Ifel, who already has decided who to vote for, not to me(The actual Middle Class Voter). Palin made a point of answering to the American people, not the moderater.

Posted by: American Joe Sixpack at October 03, 2008 10:34 AM (RSiSM)

69 Biden said the Chinese are completing the construction of 2-3 dirty coal fired power plants per week. In fact, according to the Chinese government, they are completing an average of ONE (1) per week.

He was 100 - 200% wrong!!!!!!

Posted by: Ron at October 03, 2008 11:22 AM (+dIny)

70

52 Holy shit...what is this place?  A GOP circle jerk?  ROFL at all of you.

If I were you, I wouldn't be rolling on the floor laughing, especially not with a group of guys jerking off in a circle around me Hope you have an umbrella!!

Posted by: Abu Boom Boom at October 03, 2008 11:27 AM (rV87N)

71 My husband wants to know when Joe's going to get his ass down to [my husband's] Home Depot and buy some shit.  Gotta make sales plan, and since Joe's a "you can do it, we can help" kinda guy...

Posted by: unknown jane at October 03, 2008 11:41 AM (/lvmU)

72

Biden also spouted the fake Dem talking point that "even if you started drilling now it would take ten years to see any oil."

Aside from the fact that even if it were true, that's all the more reason to START NOW.  But the truth is that certain oil resources, such as the capped wells off California, could be brought online within 6 to 9 months. And much of the rest could be a lot faster than 10 years. It's bull.

Posted by: peterike at October 03, 2008 11:42 AM (cBK1E)

73 15. Biden said in 3 weeks in Iran, we spent equally what was spent in 7 yrs in afghanistan

Posted by: Josh at October 03, 2008 11:47 AM (J/t+F)

74 Palin missed an opportunity, twice, to nail Biden. On the subject of alternative / clean energy, he mentioned exporting clean coal technolgy to China.  That's American technology and middle class jobs he's suggesting be handed over to the Chi-Coms!  Does anyone get that?!?

Posted by: SgtDog at October 03, 2008 12:09 PM (u+Pi2)

75 Well, if the real thing don't do the trick, you better make up something, quick.

Posted by: FireHorse at October 03, 2008 12:33 PM (+dm+A)

76 Biden had his share of lies, for sure.  I also wish that Palin hadn't offered up an endorsement for expanding the power of the VP office, ala Cheney. This will come back to haunt her, trust me. Cheney is probably the most disliked person in this country.

Posted by: Paul at October 03, 2008 12:51 PM (nFWOT)

77 I was disappointed that Palin didn't respond to the healthcare tax lie.  This is Democrat drunken monkey math.

Assuming Biden's figure of $12K for employer provided healthcare is right, McCain's plan would be to tax that benefit.  If you're in the wealthiest tax bracket, (roughly 30%), that means your tax would increase by $3600 (30% of $12,000, not the entire @#!@$-ing amount).

That tax "increase" is offset by a $5000 refundable tax credit.  Meaning, you would see a net tax cut of $1400. 

The whole point is to encourage employers to stop providing healthcare (and therefore increase wages in lieu of healthcare) and allow workers to choose their own healthcare provider.

That McCain-Palin don't make this clear boggles the mind.

Posted by: Dan at October 03, 2008 01:10 PM (4ObFo)

78 I can't believe Palin!!!!! I love that woman!  Biden not only lies about everything, he is just an indication of just how terrible Obama's decision making ability is.

Posted by: Ric at October 03, 2008 01:55 PM (FtlN4)

79 We need a different debate format.  One issue.  One principal (President or VP candidate) and one advisor/'shadow cabinet' member on each side.  Each side gives a three-minute opening presentation on what they think the problem is.  Then each side gives a five minute presentation outlining their solution. 

Personally, Gov Palin is the only one on either side whose personal opinion I'd care about on healthcare.  She doesn't have her health insurance paid for life like the rest of these Senators, she's got a family that'd be completely uninsurable in the private/small business health insurance market unless they were able to piggyback on a group plan somewhere, and they're not rich by most realistic measures. 

Posted by: mrkwong at October 03, 2008 01:57 PM (G8Eo0)

80 (oops, forgot the part in the debate comment above about actually having a debate after presenting their rival plans...)

Posted by: mrkwong at October 03, 2008 01:57 PM (G8Eo0)

81 Joe Biden spoke about a restaurant in Wilmington he frequents - it has been gone for at least 25 years.  He is in Home Depot "all the time".  Love it. 
Hard for me to believe he argued with Sarah that B. Hussein NEVER said he would sit down with dictators without pre-conditions!  Oh, yeah, guess that was just "Joe being Joe".

Posted by: conservativeinthekeys at October 03, 2008 02:32 PM (KMRGh)

82

I didn't understand 75% of WHAT Biden said ... it was all that political talk that only Wash. D.C. people can understand - I needed the gift of interpretation to get it! I never did!

 

I easily understood what Sarah Palin was saying and she did it with aplomb! God blesss her!

Posted by: bevy at October 03, 2008 03:31 PM (M03Yc)

83

I agreed with most of what Biden said, for two reasons:

1. He was lying, and acting like a Republican.

2. He was being so vague is was nearly impossible not to disagree with him.

Posted by: captainmeta4 at October 03, 2008 04:11 PM (pR7XR)

84 She won and I wanna be her intern!!!  I'll even buy the cigars!  Sarah ROCKS!!!!!!

Posted by: Tonto (USA) at October 03, 2008 04:43 PM (Qv1xF)

85 Like the standard quip "you know when a politician is lying when their lips are moving" and I am surprised that the count was that low.  But then i have to remember that he had to give time for Gov. Palin to speak.

Posted by: Chewie at October 03, 2008 04:43 PM (gFavh)

86 I'm sorry is it just me or did Biden keep changing his comments, i.e. "let me say it this way", or " let me re-phrase that"...  How could anybody keep up with the facts, including him.  I was impressed with Gov. Palin, she kept on the issues, admittedly, she may not have been as informed as Sen. Biden, but she made valid points. 

Posted by: Chewie at October 03, 2008 04:47 PM (gFavh)

87 Palin Environmental?  Are you kidding me?  Why don't you ask about the wolves she put a bounty on?  How about that pipeline they are building?  Exactly WHERE is this pipeline?

When I heard about a hockey mom being the candidate for VP; I thought, AWESOME!  As I was a Little League mom for 9 years.  Then I saw her and thought "OMG NO!  She's one of those BULLIES! all the parents are afraid of!

I would love to see her actually speak her OWN words and not what she has been coached on just one time!

As for Morality?  Let's see:  I have a 17 year old daughter and SHE`S not pregnant nor would I parade the poor boyfriend around announcing the very convenient "engagement". 

This woman is NOT one of us! 

Posted by: Lorrie Via at October 03, 2008 04:48 PM (F0F5E)

88

Joe Biden sounds like that Michael Scott character in "The Office".

Posted by: bigtoh at October 03, 2008 05:11 PM (UTRvM)

89 The people here just don't understand. Biden wasn't lying, he is just a long-standing member of an extremist church called the US Senate and a sarcedotal officer of the democrapi. As a high official of that church Sr. Biden has been known to speak in tongues often (known colloquially as bullcrapus) that cannot be properly discerned or interpreted by ordinary persons, laypersons; but can only be divined and interpreted by someone else possessing the Divine Gift of doublespeak, commonly known as democrapi tinfoilarius.  This is why the LMSM doesn't ever cover such bullcrapus, because tinfoilarians can interpret these strange utterings of Sr. Biden and flush them down the memory hole as if they never occurred. Only the unenlighted pretend that these words have ordinary meaning which can be proven true of false. But as they are merely the holy roller outbursts of the democrapi possessed Biden, they are harmless and unworthy of any critical exposition.  

Posted by: eaglewingz08 at October 03, 2008 05:32 PM (W88Qb)

90

Another lie:

Joe said: "The amount we've spent for just three weeks in Iraq is the same cost as 7 years in Afghanistan." (Paraphrased)

Truth: At it's most expensive time Iraq was costing $3B a week. 3 weeks times $3B is $9B. Seven years in Afghanistan has cost about $175B. Joe lied.

Posted by: Jam at October 03, 2008 05:36 PM (gyNYk)

91 Make that fifteen lies:  Hardly anyone seems to have caught Biden's outrageous fabrication about France and the United States kicking Hezbollah out of Lebanon. That never happened. And at no time did either Biden or Obama suggest sending NATO troops to "fill the vacuum."

Posted by: Beth at October 03, 2008 07:03 PM (cVW1+)

92 Biden (house judiciary commitee) also couldn't even get his con-law facts correct. Article one of constitution and its clauses reference the powers of the legislative branch of US Govt. He lectured Palin Article One referenced the executive branch when attacking Dick Cheney. ( I guess Katie Couric can ask Joe next interview?)

Posted by: Mike at October 03, 2008 07:12 PM (4gHqM)

93

Sorry, Typo last post: "Senate" judiciary committee AKA where Joe Biden has been employed for last 33 years.

Posted by: Mike at October 03, 2008 07:32 PM (4gHqM)

94 now i know why this guy last the nonination twice!

Posted by: marcy elman at October 03, 2008 08:01 PM (ZFujr)

95 now i know why this guy lost the nomination twice!

Posted by: marcy elman at October 03, 2008 08:05 PM (ZFujr)

96

Did anyone notice that Biden never once direct his answers to Palin only to Gwen to moderator...hello!!! we know who she is voting for. And to you number 87...Palin is real...she doesn't need to hide her dirty laundry so ..there will be no NO SHOCKING surprises that Obama's people can pull out. . If you have a teenager (as I do) you should know that just because you raise them with respect and faith  it doesn't always mean they won't disapoint you.

 

 more was spent in Iraq in 3 weeks than in Afghanistan in 6.5 years!!!! Come on!!

Posted by: Beth Christopher at October 03, 2008 08:57 PM (8nB5X)

97 NOOOOO, jaleach!!!!

That was ME she was winking at 

Posted by: monsignor adams at October 03, 2008 09:37 PM (7MmC6)

98 Biden doesn't believe in a surge in Afghanistan, yet he wants more troops in Afghanistan.  What is the difference?

Posted by: L at October 03, 2008 11:01 PM (XWJh5)

99 Palin is a clown...McCain was worthy of voting for before adding her. Obama will be our next President...guaranteed.

Posted by: McCain Man at October 03, 2008 11:25 PM (moU7R)

100

(insert twilight zone theme song here).

Interesting negative reactions.... Lorrie Via , sorry sweety - you're an idiot.

Sarah won the debate - in the real world... of course she lost the debate inside the beltway... inside the beltway these things are scored on the INVERSE MEANING scale...  Ther person who can use the most # of words and MEAN the least # of things is the winner.

Posted by: glitch64 at October 03, 2008 11:44 PM (khYiO)

101 You guys make me laugh so much. Because you think, when (if - God forbid) McCain wins this election, you really think your barbie doll is gonna make any difference (not to mention constitutional definition of the VP job) once in the White House? He's gonna lock her up in a little closet and let his friends help him deal with the real work - and finish ruining the country - if you want my opinion. He's been keen on locking he up a whole month already. You really expect to see her the following four years? Not if Old Man joins heaven where he'll soon belong.

Posted by: FORTEY at October 04, 2008 10:07 AM (NB+9B)

102 Someone tell me why that $700+B bill was passed when it was so distasteful at $700B, now they add all the pork/crap/BS stuff to it, and they vote it in, when the American public oposed it.  Now the news reports that it won't do much good and they don't even know how to administer it!

Posted by: StillforGOP at October 04, 2008 11:06 AM (XWJh5)

103 That $700+B bill passed because if it had not, every foreign investor in the US markets would have pulled out their money and stuffed it under a mattress or in a Swiss or Gulf bank account -- and the Second Great Depression would be on, and we'd all be standing in line for the soup kitchens and hoping to find a job, any job.....I'm sick of the hypocritical public outcry over the bailout -- you're not bailing out WALL STREET, you idiots--you're bailing yourselves out! No one protested when easy credit, lower downpayments and 7% credit cards flooded the market. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac saved their collective a*** in a fraud investigation years ago by promising easy credit  "the poor" for "affordable housing" -- and instead they created a demand for subprime mortgages that has come close to bankrupting the country. Folks who couldn't afford houses, got them; folks who couldn't afford their maxed-to-the-limit-credit-cards just refinanced their house to more than it was worth. NO outcry back then! NO calls for D.C. to regulate more! Naw, everyone loved the easy money---and now the bills have to be paid, sho SHUT UP already about the bailout and bite the bullet.

Posted by: sarah at October 04, 2008 01:19 PM (ZRLvO)

104

Sarah,

I get the bailout and it needed to be done. I understand.

What I don't understand is why they added all that extra "stuff" to the bill when the public was outraged at the $700B price tag that had to be done.  Why did they add more to it to get it passed? Why did the senators have to add the "candy" to get it passed? They should be ashamed that they couldn't pass the bill at $700B and had to add the pork to get the votes they needed!

Posted by: StillforGOP at October 04, 2008 02:49 PM (XWJh5)

105 Liberals, always a day late and an argument short

Posted by: toby928 at October 04, 2008 06:25 PM (PD1tk)

106 palin is a moron. enough said.

Posted by: Smart Voter at October 04, 2008 07:34 PM (oEpzV)

107 palin is a moron. enough said.

The strength of you argument is just too strong for me


Posted by: toby928 at October 04, 2008 08:21 PM (PD1tk)

108 Palin is an embarrassment to her gender. Read the transcript of her answers! As empty as her head. Do you really want her in charge of the nuclear football if McCain bites the dust? It's over...Obama is going to win this in a wipeout and Palin will retreat to Alaska and hopefully spend some time with her neglected children.

Posted by: phl at October 04, 2008 08:21 PM (aUPJJ)

109 Do you really want her in charge of the nuclear football if McCain bites the dust?

I worry that if, God forbid, something happens to Joe Biden, we'll be left with an empty suit in charge of our foreign policy.

You guys really should try to find the main page.

Posted by: toby928 at October 04, 2008 09:37 PM (PD1tk)

110

Maybe it's conspiracy paranoia  fed udobtedly by having grown up in NYC and living in CT for 28 years.  Being a Republican makes one feel like a stranger in a strange land.

BUT...

Was it just coincidental that Joey B. seems to have each and every respond targeted to every question asked?  He seemed to be starting to answer the question before it was asked.

Ifil may not have favored big Joey during the debate, but could she have "assisted" him prior to it?

 

 

Posted by: kaw001 at October 04, 2008 10:11 PM (sIoDU)

111

RE: Comment#52:  "Holy shit...what is this place?  A GOP circle jerk?"

Actually, judging by the above comments there are very few "jerks" here (excepting you, of course). 

Mostly "flyover" citizens who love our country, recognize the importance of maintaining its moral heritage and principles, and are extremely glad to see in the person of Sarah Palin someone who shares our values and our no-nonesense approach to living.

Posted by: Russ at October 04, 2008 11:51 PM (6w3YB)

112 Wonder why Gwen Ifill didn't ask  Caribou Barbie about her witch-chasing priest who laid hands on CB and prayed for her. If that had been Barack the election is over.  You can parse comments from the debate all you want, but as to who will manage the country next....you lose! You had your chance over the past 7 years and look at the abject failure that is this republican administration. And remember too from 1995 thru 2006 you had Congress. Looks like all that looking the other way while the financial industry went on its lust and glutony exploded just a little too early for you! Repeat after me, "Ladies and Gentleman the President of the United States Barack Obama!" Get used to it, you'l be hearing that alot over the next 8 years.

Posted by: moonlightgraham at October 05, 2008 09:57 AM (P+VpI)

113 Repeat after me

I'd rather not, thank you.  Does trolling work when you post to a three day dead thread?  It seems rather pointless.  Are you too slow to find the main page? 

Posted by: toby928 at October 05, 2008 10:17 AM (PD1tk)

114 Liberals and erectile disfunction spam:  two of a kind.

Posted by: toby928 at October 05, 2008 10:18 AM (PD1tk)

Posted by: toby928 at October 05, 2008 10:19 AM (PD1tk)

116

Get over it Toby...go sit on the main page if it's that important to you and dream a little dream of Sarah...she's headed back to Alaska...deal with it. Hah! The only empty suit on that stage had a skirt attached to it. She'll be closeted from now to the election so that she can't embarrass her running mate and the female gender with her nonsensical gibberish.

If Sarah Palin was overweight and unattractive, the idiots above wouldn't be salivating over her winks...Unbelievable.

Posted by: phl at October 05, 2008 04:25 PM (aUPJJ)

117 She'll be closeted from now to the election so that she can't embarrass her running mate and the female gender with her nonsensical gibberish.

And yet, she out front and center and lashing the O at every stop, and about time I say.  The misogynists of the Democrats cant' deal with it.

Posted by: toby928 at October 05, 2008 04:49 PM (PD1tk)

118 If Sarah Palin was overweight and unattractive, the idiots above wouldn't be salivating over her winks...Unbelievable.

yeah and?  Are you teh ghey?

Posted by: toby928 at October 05, 2008 04:55 PM (PD1tk)

119

Yes, she's out in front as long as there is no scary mainstream media to ask her mean followup questions. Poor Sarah. Face it, without a script, she is a frightening prospect as second in command to the leader of the free world. And I hardly think that the party that cast 18 million votes for a female presidential candidate is a party of misogynists. But I am impressed that you could spell the word. Very good.

As far as your second comment, it shows your point of view...a woman has to be attractive to be worthwhile. Small mind, small...fill in the blank.

So sad that your mavericks will be out of the saddle soon.

Posted by: phl at October 05, 2008 05:04 PM (aUPJJ)

120 Face it, without a script, she is a frightening prospect

I think that Palin would like another debate, Biden, not so much.  The party of Jim Crow can't seem to wrap their minds around the prospect of a self made middle class women getting to the top.  Its just not in your mindset.  Although, you do seem quite concerned about her chances.  Concerned enough to spam the fag end of a dead thread rather than taking your chances on a current thread. 

Weak that.

Posted by: toby928 at October 05, 2008 05:37 PM (PD1tk)

121

Not concerned at all about her chances...can't you read?  As a self-made woman who has cracked the glass ceiling at a major corporation whose president is a woman, I love seeing self-made, intelligent, thoughtful women get to the top.Sarah Palin is none of those things.

And you seem to be spending a lot of time here on this thread...what's up with that?

Don't worry, I won't be back. So your less than pithy thoughts will be left to drift away into cyberspace where they belong.

Posted by: phl at October 05, 2008 05:52 PM (aUPJJ)

122 Sarah Palin is none of those things.

Assertion is not argument.  And premature triumphalism is unwise. 

As to your question, it amuses me to defend the dead threads that the lefty blogs troll-link.  I've always been baffled why leftys feel compelled to post three days after all interest in a thread has ended unless its some kind of last word game.

Come, play on a current post, we always like fresh fish. 

Posted by: toby928 at October 05, 2008 06:34 PM (PD1tk)

123 Virtually every "lie" you've put down there was further elaborated on and explained by Biden. Most of them were cleared up and not dishonest.

Posted by: jeremy at October 06, 2008 11:50 AM (7T1ev)

124 Virtually every "lie" you've put down there was further elaborated on and explained by Biden.

Link?

Posted by: toby928: Caesarist at October 06, 2008 12:03 PM (evdj2)

125 I love that you don't have any proof for your rebuttals. For example in #1 you say McCain didn't vote that way, so why not throw a quick link in to the congressional record for that vote?

We're really supposed to believe some random blogger over Joe Bidden just because you say so?

Posted by: Matthew at October 06, 2008 04:55 PM (VP7eV)

126 Hey, look at lie number 3, then watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6CRvucCswk

If that doesn't put it in plain sight for you dipshitted Republicans that this entire article is misleading, I don't know what would.

Oh, and Palin being attractive and speaking on a level that dumb-folk can understand hardly qualifies her for being President. Fuck all of you.

Posted by: Democrat at October 06, 2008 05:34 PM (c0h/V)

127 ace.mu.nu

Come and play trolls

Posted by: toby928 at October 06, 2008 08:22 PM (PD1tk)

128 I'm not a troll, I just didn't stumble upon this weird heap of bullshit that's being circulated within the Republican backstage until today, at which point I became enraged at the outright untruth that you're all using to trick people. And that's really all it is, is tricking people.

There is no way any Republican can legitmately defend claiming that "drill we must" is Biden's attitude toward drilling when it's so easily seen that he was disapproving of that very attitude.

Providing misinformation like this with full intent distort what was said so that uninformed people will believe something false is nothing other than trickery, and trickery at best.

Rather than simply dismiss this and tell me to come to a more heated topic, why don't you respond to what I or anyone else said and stop trying to avoid acknowledging something that happened not 5 days ago.

Posted by: Democrat at October 07, 2008 02:22 AM (c0h/V)

129

Democrat,

     In regards to Biden saying, "Drill we must".   Read the transcript of the debate...  "Drill we must, but it will take 10 years for one drop of oil to come out of any of the wells that are going to begun to be drilled" -Biden.

His historical stance on drilling is contradictory to those words.

-Paul

Posted by: libsdrinkkoolaid at October 07, 2008 03:25 AM (TGcJI)

130 There is no way any Republican can legitmately defend claiming that "drill we must" is Biden's attitude toward drilling when it's so easily seen that he was disapproving of that very attitude.

Exactly.  The point being that Biden is relentlessly opposed to energy independence, yet claims to back drilling in the debate.  Obfuscation and confusion, if not outright falsehoods, are Biden's stock in trade.

The entire point of the thread.  Catch up troll.

ace.mu.nu

Come and play, fish.

Posted by: toby928 at October 07, 2008 08:26 AM (PD1tk)

131 Son of a bitch, you stupid fucks. DID ANY OF YOU WATCH THIS VIDEO??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6CRvucCswk

THAT'S the debate. THAT'S where he says that MCCAIN'S ANSWER TO ENERGY CRISIS is "DRILL WE MUST," which he then DISMISSES AS POOR POLICY BY SAYING WE WON'T GET ANYTHING OUT IN TEN YEARS.

He DOES NOT claim to back it there at the debate, and PAUL, you are fucking quoting out of context AGAIN!!

"John McCain has voted 20 times against funding alternative energy sources, and thinks- I guess- the only answer is 'Drill, drill drill. Drill we must,' but it will take 10 years for one drop of oil to come out of any of the wells that are going to begun to be drilled" -Biden.

You're both a couple of stupid fucks. Neither of you paid any attention to what was actually said at the debate, and probably misunderstood a bunch of other shit that anyone's been saying as well, in favor of this bullshit out-of-context quoting by other stupid fucks that are just like you, but deceitful as well.

Posted by: Democrat at October 07, 2008 01:24 PM (c0h/V)

132 You seem a bit perturbed there, numbnuts. 

ace.mu.nu

Come and play, fish.  This thread is only 4 days dead.

Posted by: toby928: Caesarist at October 07, 2008 02:48 PM (evdj2)

133 That's right, just ignore everything I said again.

Also, fuck you, I responded to the Obama / Ayers thread just for you, ya ignorant dipshit. Maybe you can go over there and ignore me again.

Posted by: Democrat at October 07, 2008 02:56 PM (c0h/V)

134 Also, fuck you, I responded to the Obama / Ayers

Actually, I applauded your presence, if you read further down.  and I'll repeat here what I said there:  Good to see you up here, democrat, and welcome.


Posted by: toby928 at October 07, 2008 08:06 PM (PD1tk)

135 lets take an out of context quote and put it as fact.  idiots, im sure if you look through all the years McCain has been on the scene i can find him out of context saying democrats are awesome, then let me post a retarded "fact check" and have retards, oh excuse me, republicans believe it.


http://www.factcheck.org/

bi-partisan fact checking, use this, not this pile of crap.

Posted by: wow at October 07, 2008 08:30 PM (8fwi8)

136 http://www.factcheck.org/  bi-partisan fact checking, use this, not this pile of crap.

Other's disagree.  For instance, the NRA was not happy with factcheck's ,er, checks about Obama's gun stances.

Like Wiki, take everybody's statements with a grain of salt.

Posted by: toby928 at October 08, 2008 01:55 PM (evdj2)

137

Why do religious CONservatives always accuse liberal democrates of drinking kool aid?

Jim Jones, a religious CONservative fanatic preaching end times, NEVER  CONvinced ANY liberal democrate of drinking koolaid, the ONLY people he COULD CONvince into drinking koolaid was religious luddites who believed in the end times and thought the earth was only 6000 years old.

Posted by: Vladislaw at October 09, 2008 04:16 AM (9GIkN)

138 Jim Jones, a religious CONservative fanatic preaching end times

Dude, I'm hoping that was parody because Jones was as socialist as they come.  That his church was called The People's Temple might have been a clue.

Posted by: toby928: Caesarist at October 09, 2008 10:53 AM (evdj2)

139 Jones and several members argued that the group should commit "revolutionary suicide" by drinking cyanide-laced grape flavored Flavor Aid (often misidentified as Kool-Aid) along with a sedative.[93] One member, Christine Miller, dissents toward the beginning of the tape.[93] When members apparently cried, Jones counseled "Stop this hysterics. This is not the way for people who are Socialists or Communists to die. No way for us to die. We must die with some dignity."

Posted by: toby928: Caesarist at October 09, 2008 11:02 AM (evdj2)

140

Politics is a game of stab your opponent and try to stay clean. People mix up their facts in every day life let alone on TV. The Republicans sure can hit hard on the web, with the right circumstances, but the Democrats walk all over them in the Presidential debates. The VP debates are a bunch of overglorified name calling and attempts to back up a candidate. These attacks do nothing but perpetuate an infirm democracy that more and more is being led by socially retarded shit for brains.

Lets get real lists out there of everything each candidate has voted on and see who we really want and need, not attacks an d false accusations. Because I could care less if Palin has some off accent so long as she does her job. McCain may be old but we barely hear about his real track record. We need real facts for the real people.

Posted by: Dustin Powell at October 12, 2008 07:34 PM (a6xOG)

141 Funny how so many here discuss Joe Biden's lies as call them, but no one seems to have spoken about Palin's lies.

So allow me to redress the balance a little:

Palin said that Obama denied the surge was working,but in fact Obama was interviewed on Fox News recently saying: "The surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated . . . I've always said it's succeeded beyond our wildest dream."

In Iraq, Palin said, "we're getting closer and closer to victory," and "victory is within sight" because of the surge.

That's far more optimistic than U.S. military commanders and analysts are. While the level of violence in Iraq is much improved, military commanders - and a report this week from the Pentagon - caution that the gains are fragile and threatened by a number of worrisome developments.

Most analysts also say that, while adding the extra troops in Iraq last year helped, other changes may have had more impact. These included the decision by radical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr to agree to a cease-fire and a U.S. program that paid Sunni tribesman to fight Islamic extremists in their midst.

Ironically it's Iran's leaders that has had a hand in calling for Muqtada al-Sadr ceasefire, the same Iranian leaders that Palin sees as insane and the evil bad guys.

Palin incorrectly called the U.S. commanding general in Afghanistan "McClellan." The top military commander in Afghanistan is Army Gen. David McKiernan.

Palin also said that McClelland (She meant Mckiernan) didn't say the surge statagey wouldn't work in Afghanistan however film footage clearly shows Mckiernan saying exactly what Joe Biden said in the debate, that the surge statagey wouldn't work in Afghanistan.

On domestic issues, Palin attacked Obama, accusing him of voting 94 times to either raise or fight against tax cuts. FactCheck.org, a non-partisan watchdog Web site, called the claim "misleading."

Palin repeated a McCain campaign claim that Obama voted to raise taxes on Americans making as little as $42,000 a year, but that claim, too, is considered misleading. Obama voted for a non-binding resolution on budget guidelines assuming that the Bush tax cuts would expire on schedule in 2011. The resolution was not a vote to raise taxes.

Palin added that Alaska is building a "nearly $40 billion natural gas pipeline which is North America's largest and most expensive infrastructure project ever to flow those sources of energy into hungry markets."

In fact, no building has begun, no federal pipeline approval has been issued and actual construction is years away - if it ever happens.

Palin also put the price tag for the project at nearly $40 billion, an exaggeration. This is roughly $10 billion more than most cost estimates industry players and consultants have made to date

She also appeared to misspeak when she said that when she and others in the state legislature found out that Alaska had some millions of dollars investment in Sudan, they called for divestment "to make sure we weren't doing anything that would be seen as condoning the activities there in Darfur."

There's no evidence, however, that Palin had any part in the divestiture legislation, and one legislator who was involved said there's been no sign of her.

Palin said that Kim Jong Il and the Castro brothers were dangerous dictators that posed a threat

The reality is that Kim Jong il is in failing health, and North Korea is now off the US "Terror" list.

As for Fidel and Raul Castro being a threat,well that is truely laughable!
2 aging men of the tiny Island of Cuba!
What's Palin scared of?..... that the Cuban airforce is going to invade US airspace!
Perhaps Palin thinks the Cuban Missile crisis was a crisis that involved misslies made by Fidel Castro!

Palin also referred to the "stinking corpse" and "wiping Israel off the Earth" quote that Ahmadinejad supossedly uttered, however most scholars of the languauge agree that this was a mistranslation an inaccurate respesentation of what Ahmadinejad actually meant.

Posted by: KL at October 14, 2008 10:28 PM (WHp90)

142 thread's dead fred

Posted by: toby928 at October 14, 2008 10:46 PM (PD1tk)

143 The thread might be dead, but people can still read it!

Posted by: kl at October 15, 2008 02:35 PM (j44I9)

144 The thread might be dead, but people can still read it!

Well you could google yourself I guess.  A thread's pretty stale after 2 weeks. 

The main page is at ace.mu.nu.  Come and play where people will read your thoughts, in real time, and have a chance to respond.

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