1

It's settled then because there's just no freakin way anyone could forge a raised seal.

Bury this anyway like you said because there's plenty of other stuff that needs to be exposed.

2 Inconsistencies abound in FactCheck report on Obama "birth certificate"

"FactCheck itself, as a project primarily funded by the Annenberg Foundation, hardly fits the bill of being a disinterested party, especially given Obama's four year stint as founding chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, currently being investigated due to its massive withholding of papers which document the catestrophic failure of the project, including public funds wasted under Obama's leadership, and his relations in that project with former Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers."

3 I have a raised seal on my foreskin...but it doesn't read "State of Hawaii." I think it's a harp seal.

4 This is a stupid issue.  I'm convinced Obama was born in Hawaii.

However, factcheck is the same organization, the Annennburg Mafia, that supported Ayers, covered up the links, funded a huge amount of Chicago corruption, and is thoroughly uncredible.  Note that they confirm that it is 3 dimensional and real, in the sense that a piece of paper is real, something no one has ever denied.

They are also obviously lying when they say that they are looking at The Original Birth Certificate, but showing us that same Certificate of Live Birth that is decades younger than Barry Soenoro's actual original birth certificate.  Just click the fucking link, and read the fucking header and the fucking picture that is labeled by factcheck.org as the Birth Certificate.  It simply is not the original birth certificate, unless Obama w2as born in the 1990s.  It's not complicated.
 
It's certainly easy to enter data into a computer, print out that Certificate of Live Birth, and stamp it.  Especially since this new confirmation occurred while Obama visited Hawaii.

I think these errors are an attempt to draw us to attack on this issue.  Factcheck knows how much they need to present Obama as a victim of racism and xenophobia.  So they pretend they have proven something when they know they haven't, that anyone with a brain will easily see they haven't, and many like me simply don't trust Annennburg after their other stunts.

Let's stick to Ayers, Wright, the Surge, etc.  It's a hell of a lot scarier than Obama having fancied up his name for whatever reason.  His name was Barry Soenoro. Any document that doesn't have that name is simply not his Birth Certificate.  Any document that doesn't have the physical signature of a physician and is 44 years old is not Obama's birth certificate.  I don't need to see his certificate, but seriously, this debunking is weeks old and no one cares to be lied to that factcheck.org has proven jack shit.  They have not.

5

I have one of those seal thingies.  Send your fake stuff over and I'll emboss the shit out of it.

For a nominal fee, of course.  It's business.

6 I havent questioned the birth cert in a while. I am more curious about his citizenship and the fact that he traveled with a Kenyan passport at as old an age as 20. So when exactly did he get naturalized?

7 Give up people.  Hawaii Dept of Health officials have said its real too.

8 Where's the evidence he traveled on a foreign passport? I missed that one..

9 His mom was an American citizen which makes him a natural born American citizen. Move along, nothing to see here

10 Sean obviously hasn't examined the nuances of citizenship law. But who cares? Obamessiah is 99% certain to be a real citizen of the US. Like the PA says, "Move along."

11

In order to prove that my own children, born outside the US to parents who were one non-US-citizen (my wife) and one US citizen (me), were in fact natural-born US citizens, I had to provide to the local US Consulate:

1. Certified copies of Birth Certificates (not Certificates of Live Birth).

2. Certified copy of a Marriage certificate.

3. Certified copies of ID for both parents (passports in both cases, as I recall).

4. Certification, independently forwarded from a court in another jurisdiction, that my previous marriage was legally terminated by divorce.

5. Proof that I met the requirements vis-a-vis residency in the US for 5 years after age 16.

Now before any sea-lawyer points out that my children were born outside the US and that this invalidates my argument, please listen to what my argument actually is.

Thanks.  It is that:

A. When only one parent is a US citizen, it is necessary to prove rather rigorously that the parents were legitimately married at the time of the birth.

B. If the birth occurs outside the US, the US-parent-residency law applies, and Ms. Obama pretty clearly did not meet it at the time of Obama's birth.  Thus the focus on the physical location of his birth, as opposed to announcements of it, etc.

Point A above is at least debatable in the case of Obama, and I have seen no attempts to deal with it rigorously, lacking which one must assume it is difficult or impossible to prove.  Note that I had to prove it rigorously for my children to be granted citizenship.

As for point B, I find it puzzling that nowhere in the Annenberg article is mention made of the distinction between an original birth certificate and a certificate of live birth.  I hasten to add that I do not know whether they are in fact interchangeable in this instance... they may, or may not be.   But the fact there is no mention of the distinction between the two, and the manner in which the terms are interchangeably used, gives me pause.  Any person qualified to write that Annenberg opinion would know the difference and the (at least potential) importance of it, and anyone who does not know that cannot be considered an authority.

I welcome constructive and / or informative comments.

12

I've always thought that this "issue" was being pushed more by the left than the right; it just seemed to me that right-wing bloggers were in the forefront debunking the "fake" birth certificate while all the "yeah, what about's" were comming from the left or from trolls. 

Almost as if this meme was being offered for right-wing-nut-jobs to grab a hold of as a distraction from "real" issues.

Like the fact that Barak is a commie.

I hate commies.

 

Just sayin'

13 Drop it, Truthers.

14 Your right, lets drop it and let the courts decide.

15 I misstated earlier, he was traveling with an Indonesian passport at age 20, not a Kenyan one like I had wrongly stated.

16

Drop it, Truthers.

 

No shit. I've mentioned this on a couple of other sites: Imagine the Justice Department, the FBI, The Secret Service, AND the Democrat National Committee all up your narrow ass with an electron microscope all at the same time. Any one of them with any doubt about his citizenship could have put a screaming halt to his candidacy. All that would have had to happen was any one of them (except the Donks) said "he's ineligible". The DNC could not in any way have hidden this for over a year, and they know full well that to try would have been disasterous.

As Purple Avenger said, we have other shit to focus on. You want a distraction? This stupid damn "Obama isn't a native" is a good one.

17 Doesn't matter: moot point. This isn't the real O' anyways ...nope, this is the pod-person O'. The real One was changed, Oh, ages agO'. This is O's shade.

18 7 Give up people. Hawaii Dept of Health officials have said its real too.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 27, 2008 11:36 PM (6L459)

Conspiracy theories never die. Once they go down that road, they become lost to all reason.

19 I think that Obama was born in Hawaii.  If anyone other than factcheck.org was the one reporting it, I would believe it.  Sadly, factcheck isn't close to a non-partisan organization.. For instance, in 2004, they vigorously defended John Kerry during the Swiftboat episode.  They tried very hard to discredit the swiftboat veterans' statements.  When I e-mailed them reminding them that they had, mysteriously, left out any evidence that defended the vets, I got a nasty e-mail back telling me that I needed to shut up because clearly I didn't understand the issue.

20 I still don't get why Obama won't release the doc. I think EVERY candidate  should have to at the very least  disclose their  birth certificate and passport travel records.

21

#20 plum:

Let's see.  You're running for POTUS.  The U.S. Constitution is clear that only a "natural-born citizen" can be seated as POTUS.  A concern is raised on this issue, so you as the POTUS candidate post a scan of your COLB on ... DailyKos?  And then a scan of the scan on your own website.  Seems simple enough, given the stakes, that a U.S. Senator can clear this up in a heartbeat.  Oh, but no.  Either the B-HO brigade is playing coy or there is something there that they don't want out.  I'm not saying he wasn't born in Hawaii and is within his "paygrade" as a legal candidate.  But really.  Was all this bullsh*t necessary?  Just produce the f'n birth certificate and let's be done with it.  Just more smug crap from the Lamb of Chicago.  (Peace be upon him.)

22

So, interesting to me is the candidate's real name.  Is his father or him running for president.

Barrack Hussein Obama is 'Dad's' name.  The candidate seems to be named Barack Hussein Obama II. 

 

Even John Fucking Kerry was not John Fucking Kerry III Esquire.

Does this smack of eletism to anyone?  And how about the fact that Dad was likely a bigamist.  Can't we taint the candidate with a little of Dad's sins?, or must we accept the fact that as a Muslim, he is entitled to multiple wives?  Would have been an issue for, say some guy like Mitt ... for sure.

23 Give up people. Hawaii Dept of Health officials have said its real too. ...Move along, nothing to see here ... Drop it, Truthers.

I'll give up when I want to give up. I don't know why you all feel the need to play make-believe Official Republican PR Consultant For A Day, but I'd rather trust myself to figure out what I think is worth discussing.

Here are the facts:

1. I don't trust Chocolate Jesus.

2. Based on people who know him, his Kenyan passport, his life story in two books authored by him, and oddities of his parentage, there is a legitimate question of his citizenship.

3. He released a flimsy piece of evidence as a JPG on DailyKos to quell these questions. The questions intensified as a result, because there are serious problems with the digital images heretofore available online, which FactCheck listed as follows (although in a kind of strawman, set-up kind of way):
The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.It isn't signed.No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version. In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.The certificate number is blacked out.The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."Personally, I would list the lack of a Certificate Number as the Number 1 red flag. The others are minor in comparison, although the halos are another, and the irregular borders that look like a 9 year-old drew them are another (which FactCheck left off the list, and only addressed later, however inadequately).

5. I don't trust FactCheck.org, for the reasons stated by others above.

6. If you give me the original digital file of the scan that Kos posted, 3 months and an unlimited budget, I could produce a piece of paper that would withstand the rigorous field-testing methods of FactCheck.org.

7. FactCheck.org did not provide high-res scans of the real-life paper document that only Super-Duper-Important Somebodies get a chance to touch lest the Messiah lose his lustre. We only get blurry photos. Thanks, guys.

8. The article by FactCheck devolves pretty quickly into name-calling and propaganda ("not a shred of evidence", "loopy" "conspiracy theories" ", which is not how scientific document-examiners operate, nor how non-partisan fact investigators operate.

9. As for confirmation from the State of Hawai'i, the best FactCheck can come up with is a 3-sentence recitation of an anonymous phone call to Hawai'i discussing how the borders look funny, and they don't answer the actual question -- they just say that they are printed along with the data. So what? No follow-up. No names of persons contacted. No transcript of the questions asked. No documentation from Hawai'i as to what exactly they did and have done since this issue arose.

I particularly like the explanation for the lack of a Certificate Number until now:

"Says Shauna: '[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world.'" The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641."

Well, it's obvious that Shauna is a fucking idiot.

This is a candidate for President of the United States. What say we get SOMEBODY to actually get the State of Hawai'i to go on record, preferably under penalty of perjury, and provide detailed, documented answers to some detailed questions, like:
How are Certificate Numbers generated? Who maintains the electronic records?Why kind of system is used to maintain them? What information does the Certificate Number provided by Chocolate Jesus provide, and can it be verified?How exactly do you go about that verification process?What procedures do you have to prevent tempering with your computer records?Who has access to your computer records?Even if you have the policy today of allowing people to self-identify non-races as their "race," what was the policy and practice in 1961? How do you know?When someone more trustworthy than FactCheck documents that this sort of inquiry has been performed, then I'll stop asking questions.

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For years, counties made copies of the actual birth certificate which was on file and added a notorized signature overlied by the notory stamp or the seal of the county.  When the birth is recorded, a certificate number is issued and also written in a large ledger book with just the basics of the birth entry.  The original birth certificate, which has things like complications of delivery, if the woman was married and the signature of the delivering physician always stays locked in the vault in the county court house.  I have signed hundreds of these over the years.  In the recent past (10-15 yrs), counties have been making certified copies of live birth like the one shown on the Obama sites.  These are also signed by the person copying the information from the original and adding their notorized signature and embossed stamp.

The questions to be answered are:

Why has not the original physician signed birth certificate been made public?

Why was the certificate number on Obama's own blacked out?  There is no reason to not let this out unless it belongs to someone else.  These are just sequential numbers of the next birth entered.  It is very hard to get a birth certificate filled out and signed by the delivery physician and carried down to the court house and entered on the very same day as the birth.  Think about the logistics.  They alway have different days of birth and days of entry.

What is written in the big log book in Oahu County Court House on the day his entry was listed?

Which hospital was he born in?  Even though most hospitals do not keep patient records back that far, the nursery often keeps their own big log book.

The doctor who delivered him should have some memory or records.  Even in multiracial Hawaii, a woman just back from Kenya would register some memories.

The people who lived next to his mother should remember a new Black baby to a single White mother in the neighborhood.

There are lots of records that could put this all to rest if the Obama people would spend the time to look.  His people sure could hack into Gov. Palin's personal emails.  Why don't they work just as hard to prove the fact that Obama can Constitutionally be elected president.  The "Official, nonsigned certificate" in today's era of Photoshop is not enough.

It is my experience that when someone refuses to show you something, that something usually does not exist as stated.  A one or two page letter from one doctor does not constitute an entire medical record.  The words "just trust me" always tells me that I need to dig deeper.

27

Fucking wingnut idiots. I was born in Iowa. Even I can't get a copy of my original birth certificate. When I request a copy, I'm provided a Certificate of Live Birth with a raised seal.

I'd be interested in any of the asshole wingnuts who have been able to get from their state of birth an actual copy of their original certificate of Birth. Most states DON'T EVEN MAINTAIN THE ORIGINALS ANY LONGER AND INSTEAD HAVE LONG AGO CONVERTTED TO MICROFILM AND DIGITIZED COPIES.

Even those jurisdictions that do still maintain the actual original paper documents, it's expensive and budonsome to gain access to view the original.

The Republican party has become the party of the stupid and ignorant.

 

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