1

"Oh, really?"

...OH.  FUCKING.  REALLY.

 

 

2 "Putin is in North Ossetia supervising the conflict."  Riiiggghhtt.  How about commanding the Russian forces?!  Paging President elect Obama, paging President elect Obama.  How about spreadin some of that peace crap you spew and have some "talks" to end this conflict?

3  It would disturb his vacation, CDR.

4 Too bad Georgia wasn't a member of NATO otherwise this might've prevented Russia from attacking.  Without membership, NATO won't do dick and frankly judging how Afghanistan is turning out, even if Georgia was a member they probably still won't do dick and send in the Brits to do some negotiating and run it like they did Basra.

5 Is Obama on vacation again?  Wasn't his European trip a vacation?  Just a few speeches and a workout right?

6 It was a little embarrassing to watch him on CNN a few minutes ago.

What's more than a little embarrassing is that we are standing on the sidelines holding our dicks while Russia bombs the shit out of an ally. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going all Wesley Clark here and suggest we start World War III over Georgia but it doesn't make this particular shit sandwich any tastier.

On the upside, all those classes I took in college about the Soviet Union and Russian history are more relevant than they've ever been since I graduated. Too bad I've forgotten most of it.

7 Off topic, but the President (the current one not the one pretending to be one!) is sure getting around the Olympics!  http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080809/D92EQ1S02.html

8 I have to admit, I didn't see this in Putin's eyes back in the day. I wonder how I missed it.

9 Too bad the Georgians don't have an A-10.  That column of tracks sitting there fat and happy?  One pass.  Gone.

10 Should've said "the current one and not THE ONE^TM pretending to be one!!"

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080809/D92EQ1S02.html

11 on't get me wrong, I'm not going all Wesley Clark here and suggest we start World War III over Georgia but it doesn't make this particular shit sandwich any tastier.

I'm not sure what to think. Obviously, my sympathies are entirely with Georgia and there's no way I could be as "objective" as that CNN anchor. Georgia is an ally and an ascendant democracy. The Georgians helped with the War on Terror (yes, in exchange for military help) and the population is largely pro-American. We should be able to do something to help them.

12  CDR, I'm watching the prelim Canada-China women's soccer match (there's nothing else on yet, OKAY) and I swear the Chinese goalkeeper is really a man.

13 Women's volleyball is on NBC right now.  That Chinese goalkeeper is lucky even it's a man on that one Canadian shot that hit the crossbar.

14 We should be able to do something to help them.

We better figure something out fast. Yeah, going to war with Russia isn't an option but there's a strategic price to be paid for doing nothing too.

What's any other country going to learn from this? Help America, be there when we ask for you but if you get into any trouble with the big boys (Russia and China), sorry you're on your own. That essentially gives both those country free reign on the borders, something we can't afford (especially given our predicament in Afghanistan).

Who are the happiest people in the world right now? The former Soviet Republics who worked their way into NATO in time. If it wasn't for that, they know they'd be getting a visit from the bear. It would just be a question of when. 

They better hope that treaty is worth something if push comes to shove.

15 Sherlock, yeah, too bad no A-10's or even a AC-130.  Target's galore!!  Heck, even a P-3 with some maverick's could have some fun with that!!

16 Stand by for the oil spike due to the Georgia conflict.

17 Pretty funny at work the other day, some of the real new Sailors were confused Russia had attacked Georgia as in GA, USA!!  I'm sure some libtards were afraid that the cost of Peaches were about to go up.

18 Ralph Peters claims the Georgians have retaken Tskhinvali.  If so, good and no surprise.  I think the Georgians can fight this to a draw, which to them is a win.

19 BTW- Our ability to play hardball with Russia is limited in as much as they are part  of our supply lines to Afghanistan.

I know diplomacy and such is about trade offs, often very difficult ones but who exactly took a look at Russia's renewed aggressiveness and said, "hey, becoming dependent on them is a great idea"?

20 Iran calls for a ceasefire. Well okay then.

21 Putin's intentions have been pretty clear for several years that his aim is to restore the Soviet Union in some form.  Politically (moving back toward totalitarianism), militarily (rapid modernization), and financially (oil revenue) he is right on track.  Re-extending regional control as "peace-keepers" of former Soviet satellite nations is the next obvious step.  With China as a hybrid military ally, these ambitions could become very dangerous for democratic nations in the next few years.

22 DCox: Agreed - and it's worrisome just how shrewd Putin has been about this. He's having his way and it appears that there's not a thing we can do about it.

23

My "enlightened" liberal buddies were not only shocked that this war had been started without them knowing it, and also that Russia was attacking the American South.  I had to patiently explain to them that Georgia is, in fact, a country.

One of these kids once told me he thought Jesus existed 10,000 years ago.  I had to say, what the FUCK do you think BC and AD are for?

These are young adults.  I will never accept that liberals are as well informed as conservatives.  Never...it goes against everything my eyes have seen and ears have heard.  They only "know" what its convenient for them to "know."

24 The Ruskies thought Afghanistan would be a breeze, too.  Not so much.  Even if they whoop the Georgians this time, I think the Russians have made a strategic mistake. 

25 Russia won't stop. They have no reason to, what do they care what the world thinks? What do they care about cease fires or treaties? NATO won't attack over Georgia. China is watching what we do here and eyeing Taiwan, by the way.

26

We could start with a trade embargo.  Russia gets nothing from America, America gets nothing from Russia.  Think Tyson Foods and Archer Daniels Midland will allow it?

27 Mother Russia isn't so much interested in 'winning' this one, as smashing a breakaway upstart back a century or so.  They are so much more predictable when they are like that.

28

CDR M, yes many other weapons can take out tanks, but only a 'hog could do that whole column all by itself in one long 30 mm burst.  It would be like Cheech and Chong - up in smoke.  Of course the Rooskies have triple-A too, but they probably would be dozing, not expecting air attack.

The other former Warsaw Pact countries are probably wondering what a handful of used A-10s would cost.  Might be good insurance, because the Russkies know what it was made to do, and to whom, and that it does it real good.

29 It's good to have our enemy back.  The end of the cold-war sucked, we need some bad guys we can make movies and books about. Thanks Russia!

30 I think about a 1000 spent uranium tipped UAV's are in order ( or should I say on order..)  Are we supposed to curse here to?  Aw.. fuck-it!

Catman

31 No War for Oil! (no?)

32 Russia always was a classy enemy too, you could respect them. Seriously though, Putin wants the old empire back and he'll get it one piece at a time if he has to. He wasn't exactly shy about telling people that before he got elected.

33 Too bad the Georgians don't have an A-10.  That column of tracks sitting there fat and happy?  One pass.  Gone.

Posted by: sherlock at August 09, 2008 01:22 PM (ojW85)

 There is no way the Georgians will be able to have Air Superiority over the whole battle space or even a portion of it. A-10s are great attack aircraft but you don't want to be flying one and sharing airspace with unopposed enemy Su-30s or MiG-29s. Air support and interdiction is very important to modern land warfare but to be used successfuly requires significant Air Superiority and SEAD assets.

Additionally A-10s require significant airfields. (I don't offhand recall the takeoff requirements for a fully loaded Warthog, but its at least several thousand feet.) You can bet the Russians would be hitting those airfields with short and long range air as well as surface to surface missiles and even tub artillery.

 

34

<i>"Who are the happiest people in the world right now? The former Soviet Republics who worked their way into NATO in time. If it wasn't for that, they know they'd be getting a visit from the bear. It would just be a question of when.</i>

Hate to break it to you, but if Russia decided to snatch and grab the Baltics (not saying they're going to), NATO would do just about nothing.

Welcome to the limits of American power (that being pretty much all NATO amounts to).

 

35

Being global policeman: not fun.

Being a bad global policeman: even less so.

36 Our limited ability to resoond to this is due to the fact the Russians have The Bomb. This is why we don't want Iran to develop it for themselves.

37

Please stop genocide of Ocetian nation!

 

Starting 1989 nationalistic fascist Georgian government tries to annihilate and expel Ocetian nation from its territory. As the result of Georgian warfare against small nations, tens thousands of Ocetian, Abhasian, Armenian and Russian people died since 1991. The scale of genocide is concealed by Georgian mass media. Brutality of Georgian fascists and freaksville torture of the local population overrode the torture of fascists during the Second World War.

 

Georgian mass media stir up the sickness of Georgian nation – they believe they are only people deserving life on Georgian territory, they are exclusive, elitist; other nations should move out or be killed.

 

At the moment the tragedy is happening – Georgians systematically shooting dead the Ocetian people in their own houses or burying under the falling homes.

 

Georgian fascists destroyed Ocetian settlements and town Tskhinvally – they lay even with the ground.

The number of victims buried by Georgian fire under the ruins cannot be calculated – it is amounted to thousands.

Georgians destroyed all hospitals. Medics cannot work under the fire of Georgians. People saved in underground stores do not have food, water, electricity, gas for 3 days – they cannot go out because of Georgian fire and cannot move out of town because Georgians are trying to take hold with tanks and armored vehicles of the only road from the town to tunnel controlled by Russians.

At that Georgian president insincerely is saying that he tries to make constitutional order and peace, and suggesting lefthandedly to cease fire. All his actions are aimed towards USA and NATO (he even speaks with his nation in English so that you understand him).

 

USA has strategic interest in region – pipeline going through Georgia. So official government of USA will never realize that Georgian president is criminal politician betrayed its nation (in fact people in Georgia do not want war), instead government of USA will support him (several hours ago a train with NATO armored machines came to Georgia).

The next victim of Georgian fascists will be Abhasian nation.

 

People in USA and Europe please force your politicians to stop Georgians.

38 Here's a bit from Peter's column in the NY Post that stands out. Strong evidence of Russian pre-planning.

> Calculating that the media and world leaders would be partying in Beijing, the Russians ordered North Ossetian militiamen, backed by Russian "peacekeepers" and mercenaries, to provoke the Georgians earlier this month.

Weary of the Russian presence on their soil, the Georgians took the bait. President Mikheil Saakashvili ordered his US-trained military to respond.

That was the excuse the Kremlin wanted. Immediately, a tank brigade from Russia's 58th Army (the butchers of Chechnya) crossed the international border into Poland - sorry, I meant Georgia.

How do I know that the Russians set a trap? Simple: Given the wretched state of Russian military readiness, that brigade could never have shot out of its motor pool on short notice. The Russians obviously "task-organized" the force in advance to make sure it would have working tanks with competent crews.

Otherwise, broken-down vehicles would've lined those mountain roads.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08092008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/raping_georgia_123664.htm?page=0

Yes, exactly right. The Soviets and the Russians weren't (aren't) so good at keeping up the maintenance levels of equipt. unless they expect to see combat soon.

39 Mikhail, Convient you left out that the Georgians were responding to shell fire from within South Osseatia... Were it up to me, Ukraine would be given NATO membership, as would all other former Soviet republics who ask for it. (Except for possibly the one who had that crazy dude who was renaming the days of the week after himself & his mom)

40 I invaded South Ossetia
The way I always do
How was I to know
They were with the Russians, too?

I was gambling with my country
I took a little risk
Send lawyers, guns, and money
Just get me out of this

An innocent world leader
Somehow I got stuck
Between a rock and a hard place
And I'm down on my luck

I'm President of Georgia
And I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

41 Kiss off mikhail

42 IT IS CLEAR THAT THE WAR BROKE OUT BY THE ACTIONS O GEORGIANS.So let them take on theirselves the consequences of their dids.

43 Conveniently left out the Abkhazian genocide of Georgians living in the southern part of the nation as well. They're Muslims who want to split off and make their own little Muslim country and are dumb enough to think Russia will help them achieve that goal.

44  Christopher, as I responded to you in the other thread, the Abkhazian separatists are not motivated by religion (nor are the South Ossetians). It's a little tiring to see people drag out the Muslim boogeyman over this, just as they did over Kosovo.

45

IT IS CLEAR THAT THE WAR BROKE OUT BY THE ACTIONS O GEORGIANS

It is clear that Russia has armored formations across an international recognized border and onto Georgian soil.

46 Mikhail,

Fuck off comrade.



God, it's the 80's again!

47 Yeah Christopher, they're the peaceful kind of muslims.  Islam means peace, you know...

48 Gotta love the nekulturny tools in here parroting the Sov... er, Russian propaganda.

49  LF Mayor, South Ossetia is majority Orthodox Christian, as are the separatists. Abkhazia is about evenly split Orthodox Christian and Sunni with another third of varying religions. Both regions claim independence based on ethnicity, not religion.

Get it through your heads, reactionaries, it's not about teh skew-ey skew-ey Muslims this time. Sheesh.

50 That's news to me, given their proximity to uber Muslim land and utter lack of historical separation from Georgia. And the slaughter of all those Georgians for daring to be in their area in Abkhazia.

51

Georgia tried to clear South Ossetian Republic from South Ossetian people…Genocide in 21 century!

 

Georgia (at this time - M Saakashvili) attacks his nearest Independent Repablic in third time in the world history. At this time 8 hours before opening of Olympic games.  And in the third time in the history Russia tries to save South Ossetian people from total annihilation. But the most important in this situation is how this “eventâ€‌ shown in the most of Europian, American and Chinese mass media. The first report in this mass media wasn’t Georgia attacks South Ossetia and destroyed 8 villages with tanks and heavy weapon, the first report was “Russia attacks Georgiaâ€‌. This is bull shit. I never can’t even imagine that as authority sources as BBC and CNN will be lie so open and wide. 

Here it is the real sequence of events:  

The day before opening fire, M.Saakashvili was in the South Ossetia and written the “non-aggression pactâ€‌.

Several hours after that (00.00 of 8th august), Georgian troops with heavy weapon, artillery and aircrafts begin the attack on 8 South Ossetian villages and Tshinvali the capitol of this Independent Republic. (I repeat Independent because it’s not a Georgian province or as say in western mass media “Separatist Republicâ€‌. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are Independent Republics, that Georgia always (during last 200 years) wanted to join to it’s territory with force.)

In several hours this 8 villages was completely destroyed and almost all civilians was killed there. Just few civilians escaped scatheless. They told that some civilian houses was destroyed  with Georgian tanks tracks with live people inside it’s basements.

After that, Georgian troops begins heavy artillery bombardment of the sleeping city Tshinvalli. They used heavy artillery weapon and Rocket systems for the attack on this city without any notice. Most of the civilians died in their own beds. It is this picturies were shown by CNN and BBC next day with comments that Russia attacks Georgia. (direct lie)

After heavy artillery preparation Georgian troops and heavy armors entered the almost destroyed Tshinvali where they begin to kill all alive civilians. (You can see this picture on CNN and BBS it was  shown by mistake then Georgian trooper shoot in the unarmed civilian but killed dog and after that Georgian light MCV tried to finish him and shooting in the house).

After Georgian troops entered the city one of their subdivision were direct to the Russian Peacekeepers Headquarter in Tshinvali.

Georgian troops and tanks begin direct fire to the Russian peacekeepers. All Russian MCV were destroyed 10 Peacekeepers were killed. Our troops begins to defend their base and ask for help.

About 150 more Russian Peacekeepers were still alive and fighting to defend their lives.

All the day Georgian Aircrafts and artillery were systematic destroying the city and civilians.

About 03:00 GMT (7:00 Moscow time) Russia asked for immediate meeting of United Nations Security Council, which has been ended without any result (As said one of the member “it’s too late, they can’t do anything because just wanted to sleepâ€‌) while South Ossetian people were dieing in the basements of their own homes.

And only after that Russian Army had to enter Republic of South Ossetia (Not Georgia).

And only this were shown in Europian and American mass media.

Georgian aircrafts continue attacks on city, villages and Russian Airforce had to destroy several flight strips in Georgia to prevent this flights. 

 

Ask yourself  what Georgian troops do in the civilian city Tshinvali?

Ask yourself then M.Saakashvili said the truth during last 2 years? All his politics is pure lie.

Ask yourself why he didn’t want to sign any legal peace convention with South Ossetia?

Ask yourself why all this facts were shown inverse for you?

Ask yourself why Europian and American mass media didn’t show you the real begin of this genocide?

Ask yourself Why Europian flag is behind M.Saakashvili?

Ask yourself Why he interrupted broadcast of Russian channels in his republic, is this Democracy?

Ask yourself Why Georgian television shows South Ossetian civilians killed by his troops and say that it is killed Georgian civilians?

 

Now Imagine yourself that Russian forces in this region is 10 times more then whole Georgian army and if Russian forces really wanted to enter the Georgia it will be destroyed in 4-5 hours. And if there are a little brain in your head you will understand that we just triing to save peace in this region we triing to save small South Ossetian people from total annihilation. 2000 South Ossetian are already dead!! Can u understand this ? Dead! Killed in their own homes while sleeping just right before the beginning of the Olympic games. Georgian troops and artillery contine to attack at this time. They shooting the road with red cross cars. All the claims of  Georgia about peace is bullshit. They just triing to kill as many Ossetians as they can.

 

I can say only one thing. Almost all that shown on BBC and CNN is “inverse trueâ€‌. I don’t know why this happens, but this fact excite me very much. There are no more Soviet Union with it’s communist party. There is Russia now. And if you look at the map you will understand that we have enough territory. The only aggressive country in the world is unfortunately USA now. USA instructors have been training Georgian troops last 2 year. They trained them well to kill civilians. Good job... We are democracy country now...and we elect our president and government not to begin a war!

 

For whole Russian history (Not USSR) Russia NEVER declair war first. We were always defend our territory. From the several turkey wars then they tried to capture our south prvinces 300 years ago, after that from Napoleon army then we save whole Europe from his aggression, after that from Japanese army which tried to capture our Eastern region, then from Hitler I hope you know who is Hitler… think about this. And think deep hard about what news you see… truth or lie.

But remember one thing Russia never wanted and never will want a war .

52 Mikhail, its difficult at this remove to know what the truth is but you need to present some verifiable facts to sway our opinions.  In this he said/he said situation, its difficult to accept the word of an anti-american dictatorship-in-all-but-name over a pro-american democracy.

53

  American people are only 300mil, 1/16 of world population. Do not take for grant American people's oponion is so called "justice". A country only have 200 years of history is too shy to accuse a civilization of thousands of years!

  Russia is a great civilization, proven from Napoleon, from Hitlar.

  Most Chinese support Russia's action! That alone is 25% of world population

54

  It is the same affair as Kosovo. If Kosovo can separate, same South Ossetian .

   I guess next one could be California, Texus.....

   Not a joke. U.S government allow human right override country sovereign, that is the consequence.

   Would like to see that day U.S become 20 small countries.

55 STOP, GEORGIA!!! People of the world, you are being deceived! World mass media propagandize false information. Russia DID NOT ATTACK Georgia! On August 7th, 2008 at 10:00 PM Georgia attacked South Ossetia. On August 8th, 2008 at 3:30 AM Georgian Army tanks entered Tskhinvali. Artillery bombing proceeded all day long, and fight with the use of tanks and heavy military machinery was lead against both Ossetian Army and civilian inhabitants. 2000 innocent civilians are already killed. The Russian peacemakers arrived to South Ossetia in the evening of August 8th, 2008 to settle the conflict and prompt peace in the republic and to protect Russian citizens living on the territory of South Ossetia. Georgia has attacked South Ossetia on the eve of Olympic games, which is extremely cruel and cynical. Watch proofs in videos at: http://www.1tvrus.com/ , http://www.1tv.ru/owa/win/ort6 _main.main , http://www.rian.ru/ , http://www.vesti.ru/news , http://news.ntv.ru/ , http://www.ren-tv.com/ , http://www.newsru.com/

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Regards 8-) Aleron.

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