1 no

2 Only possible explaination I can think of - McMaverick is actually trying to lose this thing.

Related but aside - can we nuke the "open primary" silliness now?  Please?  Or do we have to wait until the day when the GOP Presidential nominee is Lincoln Chafee or Christie Whitman?

3

Kwame Kilpatrick to go to Jail

4 This is what is known as bipartisanship.

It's important to moderate voters on both sides. Obama has no record or history (or experience) with this kind of thing, and McMaverick does. Obama, in fact, is very unipartisan. He listens to what you say so dreamily, and then votes socialist every time.

Relax, people. A moderate Republican who has been conservative on fiscal issues, some social issues and national security is better than straight Marxist loser any day.

Right? Or is electing a Marxist the new "conservative" strategy? Got news for ya - one choice is better than the other, no matter how stinky you think McMaverick is.

5 Its still aggravating

6 This is what is known as bipartisanship.

No, this is what is known as ramming a shiv into the neck of the base of, nominally at least, your party.

Besides, what how well has bipartisan New Tone^TM worked-out for the Republican brand lo these last 6-8 years?  Not to well?  So why should any of us expect it to work any better once McMaverick is setting the tone?

7 Let McCain play his hand... he only has to let the Lightworker preen himself for a few more weeks to keep the Dems from sobering up, and then he can beat Obama like a rented mule in the general.

8 Inoculation: n. The act or an instance of inoculating, especially the introduction of an antigenic substance or vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.Informal. A preemptive advertising tactic in which one party attempts to foresee and neutralize potentially damaging criticism from another party by being the first to confront troublesome issuesThe people shown in that ad are the most credible, persuasive voices in the Democrat party. Disagree with them as I do, they are, with the exception of  John Kerry, about the only grownups the Dems have got. They are also the ones who may be able to sway voters in the coming campaign. Either they are will now lie or they are going to speak respectfully of John McCain. This leaves them with no other honorable option.

True, Dems have no general concept of honor, but the American public do. This is about them, not the core Democrat factions.

As for pissing off conservatives ... Did anyone think this dog was going to pick up any new tricks. I'll take a McCain who pisses me off from time to time over an unmitigated disaster of constitution rending proportion. I'll also go for the guy I trust and disagree with over bullshit and fogballs.

9 Okay, I finally see what McCain's tactic is and it's actually pretty good.

Basically, he's treating the Dims words as serious statements, as if they truly mean what they say.

This is brilliant because most of the Dim's playbook is all nod and wink. Say one thing one place, say a different in another. Hyperbole here, different hyperbole there.

Everyone, including the morons here, don't actually believe the Dims say what they mean. Especially, the Dims.

Both that doesn't work in the days of 24 hr news and the intertubes. Just get the video and treat it as a serious policy statement, then release.

This works especially well on an empty suit, marxist blowhard sophicist like Obama. And his senate buddies and their collegial attitudes.

Well played, Senator McCain. Very well played.

10 Ahem - a quick reminder for several people in this thread...

Pissed-off at McMaverick's tactics .ne. voting for The Chosen One
Pissed-off at McMaverick's tactics .ne. want The Chosen One to be President

Are we clear?

Because I have to tell you, the immediate jump to "If you're not completely on board with McPain's strategery, tactics, etc. etc. etc. then it must mean you want St. Barack in the White House" against anyone who says a word critical of Maverick is, well, moronic - and precisely the sort of dopey pseudo-logic many of us have come to expect of, well, Obama supporters.

And yes, I'm still coding in Fortran77 - retire me.

11

A good ad. 

If McCain appeals just to the red meat of the GOP base, he is going to lose.

The Maverick persona is an appealing one to the "independent" voters who are important.  The conservative and GOP voters are important too but McCain needs to win New Hampshire, Minnesota, and other "purple" states where GOP base is just not strong enough..

 

 

12 rinseandspit at August 07, 2008 11:35 AM

Exactly. Holding Democrats to their words is the worst thing you can do to them, since they run their mouths constantly while hoping that you forget (and the the media won't report ever again) things they've said in the past.

This is a very effective ad, and very shrewd.

Nobody is saying that they LOVE the fact that Democrats have in the past recognized McCain's bipartisanship. What we're saying is that this is actually a political attribute in this current environment and not a liability.

It doesn't mean that you're voting for ST BARACK OF NAZERETH if you don't like the tactic. We understand that McMaverick is known specifically for thumbing his conservative base in the eye on occasion. Yes, this may be a double-edged sword.

The important point is this - the Donks will not be able to do an ad like this, because BO is a unipartisan hack, an empty suit and a political n00b in DC. He has no record, no experience, no history and no plan. And this ad just highlights the relative neophyte-ness of Barry-O without attacking him. Hell - even Barry-O is praising McCain in the ad. That's political dynamite for the moderates McCain needs to win.

So yes, McCain camp. Well played.

13 If McCain appeals just to the red meat of the GOP base, he is going to lose.

True but there's a way to appealing to independents and disaffected Democrats without kicking mainstream conservatives and Republicans in the nuts.

How many years have the RNC and the National Republican Senatorial Committee spent telling us we had to donate money to avoid having fools like Kerry, Biden, Feingold and Daschle running the Senate?  How much money and enery have Republicans and conservatives spent defending the administration, judical nominiees and Republican Senators from these fools?

And now McCain comes along and says, 'these guys are great, they love me'.

If McCain is so fucking worried about Democrats and independents, he should have run as one.

14 You guys are crazy. This is a good add. Every time one of these hacks goes on the attack against McCain, you can run this add. And the Hillary quote at the end is like a freaking money shot.

15
I agree with rinse: this is a good approach for McCain. Obama's support among white moderates is soft: they suspect they're being sold a pig in a poke, and the whole Enlightened One schtick has them a little pissed off, as well it should. McCain's offering himself as a nonthreatening alternative - as someone they can pull the lever for, and not feel that they're betraying their principles - could move a significant number of those voters into his column.

Don't get me wrong. There's a lot about McCain to piss off conservatives. No doubt about it. But I can live with a guy who's judicially solid, pro-life, fiscally sound, and solid on winning in Iraq. Especially when the alternative is Obama.

And as a bonus, think of the leftards' anguish when their Anointed One loses. It will be schadenfreudelicious!

16

schadenfreudelicious!

This I can get behind. The chance that I get to tell the neighbors

"You lose. Again!"

at cocktail parties for the next four years? Tantalizing.  

17 So, a question for the overwhelming majority of posters in this thread...

Is there no way to "appeal to moderates, independents and disaffected Democrats" (however loosely defined) without (as Drew put it) kicking conservatives and mainline Republicans in the nuts?

Or is it just more fun for McCain to kick his own party in the crotch as opposed to doing the hard work of actually bringing those folks along to the party (so that they may stick around a day longer than McCain), and not just the cult or personality that is Maverick?

18 Simmer down, people.

I think it's a brilliant, and very effective ad, and there's no one more conservative than me.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that your political enemies have had nice things to say about you...especially when those same politicians are now on Obama's team, slamming you every day....didn't Kerry just say that he didn't think McCain was "fit to be President"?

This ad points out the hypocrisy of these a-holes without coming right out and calling them hypocrites.

It also reaches across the isle to disaffected  (Clinton) Democrats...of which there are a lot. The Clinton bit at the end was perfect.

Smart, smart ad.

19

Doc J -

Would you rather vote for McCain or Obama?

Would you rather have someone as closer to a pure conservative or a pure liberal?

The choice is this, like it or lump it: Pure socialist/leftwing used car salesman vs. cantankerous yet well-known Republican who is both loved and reviled within his own party and the opposition party.

Given that choice, it's a no brainer. McCain is reliably pro-originalist, pro-troop, pro-life, pro-tax relief, anti-government spending and pro-America. His immigration policies are dumb, as are his occasional populist platitudes.

Obamai is pro-socialist, pro-tax, pro-choice, pro-illegal immigration, anti-war, anti-troop, pro-nanny state, pro-government intervention, pro-"living constitution", etc.

Seriously - you're going to have to reconclie the fact that McCain is far from perfect, but is a much more viable alternative to Obongma.We know McCain is flawed, but at least we know McCain and can reliably predict who he is. Obongma? Not so much, and we have a pretty good idea of who he is by who he's spent his life surrounded by and what he's preached from his various political pulpits. Obongma = socialism. It's that simple.

No?

20 Since when did a moribund Party and Movement manage to elect someone using only their base of support. Ummm ,and yes I am pointing at YOU.

For McCain to win he has to get more than 32% of the likely possible voters to vote for him. That means he has to attract 18% more people. People that probably don't LIKE Republicans at this point. I don't think he can do that by parading Dick Cheney around U-Tube. But you know best I guess.

This is a direct rebuttal to the Obama charge that McCain is just Bush. A very effective rebuttal IMO.

But then again I'm sure that Kos and Kids would object if Obama used Republicans in his ads to prove a point. So you remain in good company.

Lucky you.

21 Nice Deb at August 07, 2008 12:43 PM

Yup.

This ad effectively and completely kneecaps the MCBUSH/MCSAME meme and its yapping mouthpieces in one fell swoop.

It's a great ad.

22 Serious question, Nice Deb...

For whom do you think all those disaffected (Clinton) Democrats, moderates and independents - spurred-on to vote for Maverick by ads like this - are going to vote down-ballot?

23 Anyone else seeing that every Youtube video posted by the conservative blogs will error out saying the video is unavailable?  Or is it maybe my browser acting up?

24 Hey Good Lt...

You're confusing me with an Obama voter.  You're also confusing me with someone who doesn't give a shit about anything down-ballot from the Presidential race.

So please, spare me the sanctimonious seminar posting on McMaverick's "pro-originalist" (Huh, Gang-of-14?), pro-troop (Sure, sad he's the only one in the race), pro-life (If you say so), pro-tax relief (Really?  How did he vote in 2001 and 2003?), anti-government spending (I don't care about earmarks - I care about "Cap and trade" a whole lot more) and pro-America (again, sad but true he's the only choice we have) so-called cred.

25

DocJ:

Nothing profound here, but it seems to me that the iconography that Reagan ads could rely on to appeal to a broad, election-dominating ideological cross-section of America is now tainted. Back then, it was "Morning In America," with the requisite images: sunrises over fields of wheat, the American flag, small-town parades, a U.S. military depicted as brave protectors of our nation's values. The 1980 Olympic hockey team kind of feeling. Who couldn't get behind that? I'll go out on a limb and say it was kinda Jungian, I guess--an appeal to the collective subconscious and shared experience.

Over nearly thirty years, though, those images have been appropriated and defined by leftish popular culture as signs of unsophisticated backwardness, silly "patriotism," (read: blind devotion to imperialism), mawkish sentimentality, and boorish, resentful nativism.

The sorry truth of it is that the answer to your question appears to be No, McCain can't appeal across ideologies. There is no unifying national story to tell because anything passed off as a common truth is instantly mocked and loaded with "layers of meaning" that dilute it. Looks like the first sign of a national unwickering, but I could just be a cranky conservative...

$.02

26 Not for nothing dougf, but continually kicking your own party in the balls isn't a particularly sound long-term electoral strategy, either.

And there's a whole lot of white space between parading around with Darth Dick and pasting "Republicans SUCK!" across your face - but what do I know, I'm just a Kossack, right?

Have fun beating me up in abstentia, folks.  I've got kids to pick-up.

27 Quickly - Thanks railwriter, that's the best answer I've heard in months.

28 I think we all know who and what McCain is by now and well as who Obama is. And though McCain wouldn't be my choice in a perfect world, he's much, much better than Obama.

I believe the Republicans along with Bush have damaged their brand(except with respect to the war) severely. Given McCain being who he is(especially the unfortunate greentard/carboncapandtradescam beliefs), I believe a two track run is the smart way to go.

In essence, let McCain run as McCain, almost as his own entity. Why not? He's doing that anyway. And I don't believe his coattails will be huge at all.

And let the congresscritters, etc. run as the Energy, More Jobs, Strong Economy, Sensible immigration Policy, Victory, Party and let them bring people along to the party.

This lets moderates who lean left vote for McCain and moderates who lean right vote for all the other Republicans.

This November could turn out to be a pleasant surprise.

29 I despise McCain, but this is a good ad.

He's running against a far left Marxist/extremist.  His plan is to capture the middle.  And he will.  There are a bunch of Hillary supporters and moderates who aren't down with Obamamessiah's program.

McCain is not only going to win this thing, he's going to beat Obama like a rented mule (was that racist?).

He's also going to thumb us in the eyeballs as he does it.  I don't like it any better than you, but we may as well accept the reality.

Will I vote for him?  I've moved from "no fucking way ever" to "maybe, goddamnit."

30 he's going to beat Obama like a rented mule (was that racist?).

Do you even need to ask, Hatey McHaterson

31 It's true that Mccain is not likely to be a a help to the GOP totals in the House and Senate.  He's not really much of a Republican.

Now, at what point does Mccain go so far that he's so clearly not a normal Mcbushysame, and DrewM's complaint that Mccain would redefine the GOP to the left possibly is remedied a bit?

Regardless, it is going to be a long long road to 2012, with not much hope of a new Reagan coming out from nowhere at that point.

32 And there's a whole lot of white space between parading around with Darth Dick and pasting "Republicans SUCK!" across your face - but what do I know, I'm just a Kossack, right? ---Docj

It's not what you believe in. It's 'how' you believe in it that is the operative identical characteristic. The morons ( and I don't use that word the way it is used here) at Kos also habitually are on the lookout for 'deviationism' and backsliders. True-believers are very often more akin to each other than they are to the 'others' who are more ' flexible' in thes things.

It is IMAO a piss-poor tactic and ALWAYS leads to unfortunate results even if sometimes successful in the near term.

The overwhelming mass of people want leaders who get results (good results). They don't want ideologues. You (generic you here)castigate Obama for being a doctrinaire ;progressive', who can't and won't 'reach out, and then you (see above) lambaste McCain because he can and does do precisely that.

I hope McCain does manage to (against ALL THE ODDS) to pull the election out of the fire. He won't do so by kicking sand in the face of all those who don't like Republicans but are afraid of the Messiah. He will do so by taking likely Obama votes and converting them to McCain votes. And that is the ONLY way he might pull off this 'miracle'.

But I think he should do an ad featuring Republican Senators.  How about one where Ted Stevens says BAD things about him. Now that would really be an effective ad.

33 > sad but true he's the only choice we have

I surely do not confuse you with an Obambi supporter. I'm just trying to help you feel better about siding with Senator McCrankenamnesty. I know it doesn't send tingles up your leg, but

That's my point. I'm not saying that it McCain is TEH AWESOME; he's at best TEH...MEH. I'm saying that Obongma is TEH SUXOR, and we all know this.

And given the choice between TEH SUXOR and TEH...MEH, I'm voting MEH.

Who's with MEH?

34 DrewM's complaint that Mccain would redefine the GOP to the left possibly is remedied a bit?

There's also the possibility that the congressional Rs will define themselves against McCain on immigration, ManBearPig, and other issues he sucks on. They will be under pressure from their constituencies and since the Ds will be aligning with McCain on some of these issues it would present them with a great opportunity to break out.

35

I hope McCain does manage to (against ALL THE ODDS) to pull the election out of the fire. He won't do so by kicking sand in the face of all those who don't like Republicans but are afraid of the Messiah. He will do so by taking likely Obama votes and converting them to McCain votes. And that is the ONLY way he might pull off this 'miracle'.

He won't do so by kicking sand in the face of all those who don't like Republicans

Your equation disregards the Republican base. If--if--he manages all this and alienates enough conservatives in the process--and it's a given that he'll have to do at least a fair amount of that to accomplish your scenario--then hey presto, Katie bar the door. He'll lose. 

Does he know how many people he can afford to alienate? That's an angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin question. Of course he doesn't. If he wins, it'll be in spite of himself, not because of himself.

quod erat demonstrandum.

36 "Your equation disregards the Republican base. If--if--he manages all this and alienates enough conservatives in the process--and it's a given that he'll have to do at least a fair amount of that to accomplish your scenario--then hey presto, Katie bar the door. He'll lose."

So ? Everyone loses at some point.

He only loses once by taking his best shot. No let me rephrase --- his only shot.  The famous 'base' loses for at least 8 LONG YEARS during which at least 2 'liberal' Justices retire and are replaced by even MORE liberal justices and the Court becomes even more 'liberal' for at least another 20 years.

Not to mention all the feel-good social engineering programs which will be rubber stamped through a completely Democrat Congress.

Oh well, There's always 2016.

37 I'm just curious but when did the Republican base become an decrepit old piece of shit no one wants to be near?

I seem to remember it dragging George Bush's ass over the finish line last time anyone took it out for a spin.

Yes, things have changed but that just means you need the base plus something else. McCain either thinks he can win without the base or the base will be complaint and vote how they are told.

Good luck with that if turnout becomes an issue!

Remember John Kerry got more votes for President than anyone in history with one notable exception. Does anyone think Obama is starting off with substantially less than that? I don't.  Kerry's voters will turn out for Obama and then some.

Can McCain count on Bush's voters turning out for him in the same numbers or  can he really find enough votes from independents and pissed off Democrats?

He might. Obama should be further ahead than he is but it seems an unnecessary risk for McCain to run.

38 Would you rather vote for McCain or Obama?
Posted by: Good Lt

Pardon me, I'm off to find a clip of the South Park from 2004 when the kids had to choose a new school mascot, picking between a Shit Sandwich and a Giant Douche.

Prescient cartoons really.  Is there an option I can pick that doesn't feel like fucking up America?  I'm just saying, I've voted so far for:
Clinton (what, I was young; so sue me)
Bob Dole (I still like him)
Harry Brown (yes, I'm glad he wasn't President for 9/11, but Bush didn't impress me, and the Libertarian fiscal, social, and Govt. policies aren't bad overall)
and Bush (Kerry can kiss my ass, and post 9-11 the Libertarians still aren't serious)

I'd have voted for Fred happily, I'd have voted for Romney or Giuliani with few misgivings.

But anti-Free Speech McCain or anti-Business Obama?  What the hell did I do to deserve a choice like this? 

If I had to vote today I'd write in Paris Hilton.  She sounds rational on energy policies, without crippling the economy with some half-baked Government oversight scheme... her 30 second sound bite beats both candidates "well thought out" strategies.  Who the fuck expected that shit?

My new bumper sticker will read:
2008 - Fuck it, we're screwed regardless who we pick; lets go fishing.

39 I'm just curious but when did the Republican base become an decrepit old piece of shit no one wants to be near? - DrewM

Thanks Drew.  That one hit the sore spot dead center.

In answers to several above - here's what I want, in order of preference.
1) I want the minimize, hopefully reverse, expected GOP losses in Congress
2) I want Obama to lose - meaning that I want Maverick to win
3) I want both 1) and 2) - but if I'm only going to get one of those I want 1).

Yes, there it is.  I think President Unicorn with a 52-48 Dem Senate and a 235-200 Dem House is better, rather well better, than President Maverick with a 58-42 Dem Senate and a 255-180 Dem House.  Because than all Maverick does is set-up the return of the Wicked Witch of Westchester with a fillibuster-proof, Pelosi-led congress in 2012.

But in the end I reluctantly want McMaverick to win.  Know what else I want?  I want him to stop kicking me in the fucking balls.  I'm sick of being treated like a lepper by the nominee from my own freaking party.

40 That Hillary clip at the end is priceless.  Tom Daschle just pisses me off, because I know he's talking about Mccain stabbing me in the back.

DocJ and DrewM are right to be tired of the constant bullshit the GOP eternally lives under, being attacked, at least a bit, by its own presidential nominee, and of course everyone else.  The GOP was right on taxation, social security, the fucking war, energy, and on and on, and yet it's almost instinctively a minority party playing defense.

It gets pretty old. 

I'm voting for Mccain, and I'm not even that unhappy at the choice.  He's an honest man who will protect the country as best he can, and like Bush, will put my family's safety above his poll numbers.  I don't like other positions he has, that of course have a lot more to do with the congress than anything else (though I'm not stupid... Mccain will not veto a lot of things I will want him to), but ultimately, I like Mccain.  He isn't perfect, but he's honest, open, and pretty smart.  He will be something of a uniter in a time when we really need a clear wartime leader the nation can stand behind.  He'd die for his country.   Obama would never put himself out for this country he is ashamed of.

41

He'd die for his country.   Obama would never put himself out for this country he is ashamed of.

Yeah. I hate my choices, but John McCain let himself be tortured rather than be released and used as propaganda.  He's 10 times the man I am and 100 times the man Chimpy Obama could ever hope to be.

42

One last thought that makes voting for McCain at least bearable: at least we can believe he won't be followed into Washington a coterie of thugs, race hustlers, confidence men, babydaddies and shakedown artists.

I shudder to think about the slime Brock has made post-electoral promises to... 

Oh, and Steven, if you're reading this and your guy wins, I'm going to shit on the hood of your new car.

43 Right? Or is electing a Marxist the new "conservative" strategy? Got news for ya - one choice is better than the other, no matter how stinky you think McMaverick is.

True, so far as it goes.

Is McCain actually going to be able to get anything done with a Democrat controlled Congress? is Kerry right when he says opposes his own immigration bill?

That's the lynch pin, right there. If Juan McAmnesty normalizes 20-30 million new Democrat voters, then it won't freakin matter that he gets to appoint a few judges - and which of Alito, Thomas or Roberts do you think would get to a confirmation vote? anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

44 One last thought that makes voting for McCain at least bearable: at least we can believe he won't be followed into Washington a coterie of thugs, race hustlers, confidence men, babydaddies and shakedown artists.

That's true. But as I predicted many times, it isn't McCain convincing me I should vote for him, it's Obama convincing me to vote against him. Deer Lord, please allow me a candidate this election cycle that I can vote for.

45

I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils (thank God I live in Alabama).

1980-Ronaldus Magnus proudly

1984-Ronaldus Magnus proudly

1988-George HW Bush proudly

1992-George HW Bush reluctantly (burned by the tax increase but knew Clinton was going to target me and my profession)

1996-Robert Dole reluctantly (burned by the tax increase and the 'HillaryCare' fiasco but knew Dole accepted most of the leftist premises)

2000-Harry Browne wholeheartedly(9/11 surprised me, but knew what al-Gore would do to me and was wary of George W Bush because he was honest about his philosophy and goals, which were not as good as they could be)

2004-didn't vote

2008-McCain's only shot at getting a for vote from me is picking an oustanding VP candidate who'll be to McCain what Darth Cheney has been to President Bush. I plan to vote for the candidate whose philosophy of government matches mine, not for the candidate's party.

I expect Alabama to be 52% McCain, 40% Obama, 4% Barr, 2% Nader, 2% others.

I will write in my own name before I vote for a candidate who is an open socialist or one who accepts socialist premises while arguing against specific government policies or programs.

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