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FBI/DOJ Briefing on the Case Against Bruce Ivins
Oh, PS: Ivins was a Registered, Real, Vote-in-Every-Primary Democrat; Lefty Blogs Begin Doubting His Guilt Based on This

An NPR report details evidence already mentioned.

Some highlights from the briefing:

* "Sole suspect" in investigation

* Focused on Ivins' (USAMRIID) lab in 2005; Ivins in 2007

* Identified a "genetically unique" parent material used in attacks called RMR-1029 from single, specific flask; "created and solely maintained by Dr. Ivins;" "no one received material from that flask without going through Dr. Ivins;" ruled out all persons who could have had access to flask, except Ivins

* Ivins skilled in techniques necessary to create weaponized spores; Ivins had access to freeze-drying machine called "lyopholizer" used to create dry spores from wet material; other technicians consulted him on the proper use of this machinery, demonstrating his expertise

* In days leading up to each mailing, Ivins was working "inordinate" number of off-hours, particularly at night and also on weekends, in the lab; records show he did not work such hours either before or after the attacks; Ivins was never able to provide "satisfactory" answer as to why he was working strange hours

* Demonstrated "consciousness of guilt" -- examples: during search, took "highly unusual" steps to hide book on DNA coding; submitted "questionable sample" of his parent spores to FBI when requested (presumably to deliberately get a false negative on a comparative test)

* Also: Made "far-reaching" efforts to blame others (Steven Hatfill?) and deflect attention from himself; made detailed threats to kill people in his group therapy sessions

* Had a history of mental health problems; in one email he wrote to a coworker, he stated he had "incredible paranoid delusional thoughts at times" and feared he "might not be able to control [his] behavior"

* Throughout his adult life, had frequently driven to other locations to send packages under assumed names to disguise his identity as the sender; admitted to using psuedonyms; was a prolific writer to Congress and the media (thus demonstrating his interests and habits seemed congruent with the "Amerithrax" mailer)

* Envelopes used in attacks were all pre-franked sold only by post offices during 9-month period in 2001; analysis shows defects in ink on pre-printed portions of envelopes; this defect is similar to defects in printing sold by the post office in the Frederick, MD area (where Ivins lived and maintained a PO box); spokesman calls it "very likely" envelopes were purchased in Frederick MD (though does not call it conclusive or a positive match)

Unexplained: It has been alleged (and not, as far as I know, disputed) that the FBI has been unable to reverse-engineer and recreate the anthrax spores; if this is true, the FBI does not explain yet how Ivins managed it.

Not Yet Addressed in Briefing But Important: ABCNews reported much earlier in the case that the spores were coated with bentonite, a coating that only the Iraqis were researching. It seems that not only was this report wrong, it was entirely spurious and made up wholesale. Glenn Greenwald, of all people, makes the interesting speculation that Ivins himself was the dishonest source for this report, hoping, perhaps, to get the media to pressure the FBI into investigating foreign suspects rather than domestic ones.

There are increasing calls for ABCNews to release the names of its source or sources for this claim, given that the sources in question do not seem to be actual sources so much as hoaxters. If ABCNews has multiple sources (which I believe they do), it's possible they all trace their information originally to Ivins.

More: A spokesman argues circumstantial evidence can be compelling, and further suggests there is in fact direct evidence against Ivins, including the flask, "effectively the murder weapon," and tool stamp defects on the pre-franked envelopes. (I know he earlier characterized those defects as ink defects, and now as tool-stamp defects; it appears he means the defects were in the inking, not the ink itself.)

* One of "key steps" was FBI's creation/refinement of new scientific techniques allowing more definitive identification of specific DNA family of anthrax used in mailings; these techniques were not available earlier in the case, until 2005 when they had this "breakthrough," thus explaining the long delay in focusing on this lab in specific

Comment: Skeptics have written that a DNA analysis is not very probative, as this broad strain of anthrax (the Ames strain) is fairly common and a large number of labs (including overseas labs) have it. The FBI seems to be claiming that while such analysis may not have been very helpful or definitive in the past, these new techniques now allow a positive ID of a strain, and that, of course, Ivins' creation (RMR-1029) is a positive match


* No handwriting match. But this is explained by what seems obvious, that Ivins was disguising his writing on the anthrax letters. Another guy, though, claims there were "similarities," but not of such a rigorous scientific threshold as to be admissible in court.

* An email he wrote shortly before the mailings stated that Al Qaeda had bioweapons, which suggests (weakly) his prior intent to pin the mailings on Al Qaeda

* Connection to 9/11: Ivins' strange behavior (including his off-hours working, and frazzled mental state due to fear of his vaccination program being canceled) begins well prior to 9/11 -- in August. So was it pure coincidence he already seemed to be planning the attack to coincide with an event he could not possibly have known was coming? Spokesman blows this off with "I don't want to speculate"

Comment: One of the reasons people like me strongly suspected AQ's (or Iraq's) complicity was the timing, the near-impossibility of a domestic suspect having both the ability and desire to send anthrax out, with a plan that was all ready to go, just happening to coincide with the fortuitous (to the domestic anthrax mailer, at least) occurrence of 9/11. It seems a strange and large coincidence.

It continues to seem that way -- though that doesn't mean it's impossible. The FBI does seem to be saying, though, that yes, it was a big coincidence: Ivins was working on this scheme in the weeks leading up to 9/11, possibly with an eye already to pinning it on AQ, and just happened to get insanely lucky by having AQ attack the country even as he was drying his spores.

Odd. I guess this may be a particularly ungainly Black Swan.

* Why didn't Ivins get sick? He had vaccinated himself.

* How could such an unhinged guy, paranoid and alcoholic, maintain his position in a high-clearance bioweapons lab? "I don't want to speculate."

* New technique of anthrax DNA analysis has been "validated" and can be used "going forward," that is, they're saying it's a generally useful (and admissible) bit of forensic science which has been tested and will be used in the future (i.e., they're saying it's not a weak bit of make-it-up rubber science used just to convict a dead man)

The IHT: Allah refers me to this IHT article.

Allah calls the below "damning," but I think the IHT reporter may have it wrong:

n addition, searches of Ivins's home in Frederick, Maryland, turned up "hundreds" of similar letters that had not yet been sent to media outlets and members of Congress, people who were briefed by the FBI on Wednesday said.

I believe the reporter has this badly wrong. He is suggesting the briefing stated these letters (which the FBI numbered as 68, IIRC, not in the "hundreds") were similar to the anthrax death-threat letters.

That would indeed be explosive and damning evidence, but that's not what I thought they were saying at the briefing. Indeed, I thought what they were saying was relatively inconsequential so I didn't bother mentioning it.

My impression -- and I may be wrong -- was that these 68 additional letters were similar to other "letters to the editor" and constituent-concern letters he had written in the past, all of a non-criminal nature, and demonstrating simply his longstanding and nearly obsessive interest in Congress and the media (similar to the Amerithrax mailer's interest).

I should note that the FBI mentioned this parenthetically, suggesting my interpretation is correct, and did not especially highlight this when asked about "direct" or conclusive evidence against Ivins.

If the IHT reporter's interpretation is correct -- that these were "Death to America/Death to Israel/Take penicillin now" type letters, one would imagine them being absolutely central to the FBI's case, not parenthetically mentioned as merely being additional, secondary circumstantial evidence.

Furthermore, surely such letters would have been written in the same disguised handwriting we see in the anthrax letters -- so the FBI would not have said there was "no handwriting match." They would have said, "Hell yeah, we matched his handwriting!"

The article goes on to throw doubt on the case, with some post office workers quoted as saying they just don't believe the FBI (we heard a bit of that at the end of the briefing), and allegations that the FBI acted improperly in attempting to turn Ivins' children (older children, I'm guessing) into witnesses against him.


Ivins Was an Out-and-Proud, Bona-Fide, Broken-Glass Democrat: Kudos to the Brad Blog for reporting it. I suppose it's sadly inevitable that, having found out the culprit was an out-and-proud partisan Democrat, the lefty blog immediately begins doubting he could have been the culprit.

"I asked for Bruce Ivins," he explained while detailing his call to the BoE. "I spelled the name, and they were well familiar with who I was talking about. I can't imagine that there could be many other Bruce Ivins in Frederick, Maryland."

The BRAD BLOG has reviewed the signed request that Kincaid says he sent to Stuart Harvey, Supervisor of the BoE, in which Kincaid noted that "Any response [to the request] may be made telephonically to the number above or to [his email address]. Inasmuch as this is information for a story on deadline, there is no need to mail the response."

"The purpose of this correspondence is to provide you with a written request," Kincaid wrote to Harvey, "pursuant to Maryland law as you expressed it to me, for all public voter registration information for an individual by the name of Bruce Ivins, included, but not limited to name, address of registration, party affiliation and elections/primaries in which the registrant has voted."

Kincaid was later called back by a deputy to the Supervisor of the Fredrick County BoE and informed that Ivins had been a registered Democrat and had voted in every election since 1996. The pertinent part of the initial email from Kincaid follows:


The nature of Maryland law was such that I had to provide them with a written request for info, signed by yrs trly. I complied by e-mailing a scan of a signed request letter.

They then informed me that the Board isn't allowed to e-mail such info in response. She instead conveyed the information by phone, said info being received by my lovely wife, Agnes. That information via Noreen, the deputy to Stuart Harvey, Supervisor of the Frederick County, Maryland Board of Elections, is as follows: Bruce Ivins, Date of Registration 24 November 1982. Party of Registration: Democrat. Records indicate he voted in every election since 1996.

Kincaid confirmed again, on the air today, that his understanding was that Ivins had voted in every Democratic Primary election in Frederick County since '96, since Maryland has a "closed" primary system, allowing only members of each political party to vote in their own primaries. "So it wasn't an Operation Chaos type of thing," Kincaid explained on the air, referring to rightwing radio host Rush Limbaugh's campaign to encourage Republicans to vote for Hillary Clinton in this year's Democratic Primary contests.

So if you're wondering why Ivins' political affiliation has not been reported -- as many of you were certain would be the main storyline here, assuming he had turned out to be Republican -- there's your answer. Surely the MSM would be calling him a Republican in every report, but, alas, it turns out he's a Democrat, and hence no reportage on this aspect of his political beliefs whatsoever.

I wouldn't read too much into his political affiliation; his main party was of course "Crazy."

But yeah, goddamnit, I do know that if he had been a Republican, the MSM and the left would be going beserkers and blaming this all on us.

And I find it a bit unsettling that members of the "Reality Based Community" immediately begin offering conspiracy theories based on little more than the fact that Ivins was a Democrat, so of course he can't be guilty.

Brad Blog's argument is slightly more nuanced than that -- he asks why a liberal (presumably, based on his letters to the editor) Democrat would send anthrax to liberals Daschle, Leahy, and Tom Brokaw ( a curious sudden admission from the left that a big MSM figure is in fact "liberal").

But the writer seems trapped in the thinking that political orientation determines bad behavior (of course Ivins must have been a Republican; only mean Republicans do stuff like this!), rather than accepting that insanity and not political belief is the main motivating impulse in this sort of crime.

So why did Ivins send the letters to liberals, mostly? Why not? For one thing, he was bonkers. For another thing, he wanted a lot of publicity, and, at the time, Daschle and Leahy were in the Senatorial majority. Republicans, at that time, were in the minority, due to Jumpin' Jim Jeffords.

And what conservative media figures were prominent enough to warrant an anthrax letter? George Will? Jonah Goldberg? Pshah. If you want to make a splash, you send letters to TV news anchors, and all of them, of course, were/are liberals.

For another thing, as the netroots proves day-in, day-out, the netroots hate what it considers heretics and apostates in the Church of Liberalsm nearly as passionately (sometimes moreso) than actual Evil Republican Malefactors.

The left's determination to find a Republican villain behind every single crime or misfortune that befalls the world is borderline insane -- nearly Bruce Ivins level paranoid, actually.

I myself was skeptical of Ivins' guilt. I am less so now, but I'm not entirely convinced. There is that question of bizarre timing, after all: Ivins just so happened to be finishing up his plot to send anthrax and pin it on Al Qaeda just as al Qaeda attacked America.

But I think that's a slightly more substantive reason for skepticism than "He belongs to my party, so I cannot believe he is capable of terrorism or criminality."

More from CNN: Major takeaway: the strength of the case rests chiefly on the FBI's "new techniques" of postively identifying the "genetic parents" of an anthrax sample. Only when they release these techniques to the public can scientists verify the techniques are sound.

They haven't done that yet. They've just asserted the techniques have been "validated' and will be employed in future forensic analyses.

Posted by: Ace at 04:28 PM



Comments

1 So why did they target Hatfill for three years?

Posted by: runninrebel at August 06, 2008 04:31 PM (0n9wc)

2 It sounds like he covered his tracks as well as John David Stutts.

Why'd it take so long?

Posted by: Stinky Esposito at August 06, 2008 04:37 PM (MMC8r)

3 It's a fair cop, but Republicans are to blame.

Posted by: Bruce Ivins at August 06, 2008 04:38 PM (TXp3z)

4
I would think his dossier would contain photos of Kappa Kappa Gamma girls in fuzzy pink sweaters getting pinned.  [Remember how they always had the pin right on their tit?]

Posted by: grc at August 06, 2008 04:40 PM (V4gbT)

5 So why did they concentrate on Hatfill at all?

Posted by: The Obvious at August 06, 2008 04:43 PM (1g+FW)

6 Too bad the SOB didn't die of his own spores like his victims did.

Posted by: GarandFan at August 06, 2008 04:46 PM (eJ32B)

7

Geez,

We're a naturally occurring bacterium, somebody "weaponizes" us and suddenly Anthrax is less popular than Congress, barely, but less popular.

We're sort of like the pit bulls of bacteria - nice, unless some human comes along and turns us into something lethal.

So, go easy on us.  Don't blame the bacteria, blame the human.

-

 

Posted by: Anthrax at August 06, 2008 04:49 PM (UeP9e)

8

Too bad the SOB didn't die of his own spores like his victims did.

How many fatalities were there?  Wasn't it like just one?

Posted by: buzzion at August 06, 2008 04:55 PM (Lrsi6)

9

"Ivins had access to freeze-drying machine called "lyopholizer" used to create dry spores from wet material; other technicians consulted him on the proper use of this machinery, demonstrating his expertise"

 

FWIW, it requires virtually no "expertise" to run a lyophilizer.  And lyophilizing anthrax spores doesn't remotely "weaponize" them.  There's still a lot of smoke but little to no fire here.  I'd have to admit that he seems like he could be the one, but we don't really know for sure how much of the info that's been floating around since 2001 is accurate.  Were any of the anthrax samples used actually weaponized?  If so, that could be a major problem.  Did Ivins even have access to weaponized anthrax?  If he did, is any missing?  If all of the anthrax mailings were crude preps, then it becomes much more believable that Ivins could have done it.  I've never prepared weaponized anthrax spores, but I would strongly bet that it is not nearly as easy as people think.

Posted by: Crimso at August 06, 2008 04:55 PM (Xj3ni)

10 "no one received material from that flask without going through Dr. Ivins;"

Sandy Burger with no talent for theft, only raw guts, got away with the most highly classified national secret document theft in broad daylight. There's no way that Ivins personally patrolled his workspace at all times. Yes, of course it could have been Ivins, just as it could also have been someone higher than Ivins with security clearance who enabled the terrorism theft and dispersement from Ivins' work. There are specialists employed by our government who do such dastardly deeds. As likely as not, someone besides Ivins was involved in this terrorist act, just as his victim believes. It will be interesting to see how the FBI proves that Ivins had no accomplice, as they paint his ugly personal portrait for media consumption. The worse they make him out, the less believable their case becomes. Even Jay Leno sensibly points out the FBI fallacy portraying Ivins as a murderer since high school yet being selected to do the most dangerous research on the face of the earth by our security conscious government and armed forces. Without FBI involvement, exactly whom is the single psychotherapist on record referencing as Ivins' former psychologists who unanimously substantiate her story?

Suicide just stinks and taints any judicial case. Ivins should not have been pushed beyond the point of no return by the FBI.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 06, 2008 05:04 PM (F1b/5)

11 How does this briefing comport with RICHARD SPERTZEL's Op-Ed in the WSJ.

I'm not so sure that I buy the Famous But Incompetent's version of events, based on their less-than-spectacular investigation history of late. I think they wanted to just close the case and it's convenient/easy to just blame everything on a dead guy and call it good.

Posted by: thebronze at August 06, 2008 05:05 PM (NtV0f)

12 >>> How does this briefing comport with RICHARD SPERTZEL's Op-Ed in the WSJ.

See one of the bold-faced comments as far as Spertzel's statements about the weakness of DNA analysis in making a case.

Posted by: ace at August 06, 2008 05:13 PM (1WR4H)

13 "to create dry spores from wet material; other technicians consulted him on the proper use of this machinery, demonstrating his expertise"...AS WELL AS demonstrating that others had access and acquired skill to do likewise.

The anthrax terror acts were horrible. That Ivins, willing or not, participated in the terrorism, is also horrible. One remembers the response of Oppenheimer at the first Atomic Bomb test of 1945.

 

Posted by: maverick muse at August 06, 2008 05:15 PM (F1b/5)

14

Did Ivins even have access to weaponized anthrax?  If he did, is any missing?

To the first question, I think he devloped the weaponized version. As for the second...he was too smart to take enough to be noticed. One could conceivably take a couple of spores un-noticced and culture/reproduce them like yeast to yield almost as much as one would want. Doing this while leaving no traces is the really tough part.

Remember when they drained that pond near Hatfills house? Working underwater would seemingly be the only way to work with this material and not leave traces.

Posted by: Gunslinger at August 06, 2008 05:15 PM (7FA9S)

15 Cheney & Rove made him do it...  It's all Bush's fault.

See it live on the 6 OClock PRESSSSidential News.  

Nobama in 08,
My bennies, 
can just barely wait.

Posted by: Dr Fred at August 06, 2008 05:18 PM (9jraf)

16 One remembers the response of Oppenheimer at the first Atomic Bomb test of 1945.

On which I call bullshit. He knew what he was doing.  Going oops! after the fact in order to do ... what? Be melodramatic? Look less culpable for the body count? Killing our enemy was the goal and certainly justified.

Posted by: grc at August 06, 2008 05:32 PM (lMPRu)

17 I thought that viruses had RNA, not DNA ?

Posted by: Holdfast at August 06, 2008 05:38 PM (Gzb30)

18

One remembers the response of Oppenheimer at the first Atomic Bomb test of 1945.

On which I call bullshit. He knew what he was doing.  Going oops! after the fact in order to do ... what? Be melodramatic? Look less culpable for the body count? Killing our enemy was the goal and certainly justified.

I have to agree. Oppenheimer was the scientific director of the manhattan project, and he worked on the bomb for years knowing full well what the end purpose was. The fact that he uttered a pithy line after the first detonation doesn't affect whether it was worthwhile or should have been developed and used.

Posted by: Maetenloch at August 06, 2008 05:47 PM (hn7Rm)

19 Anthrax is a bacteria, not a virus, HF.  And there were five total deaths, IIRC.

Posted by: Alice H at August 06, 2008 06:01 PM (jRtPb)

20 Totally unwarranted speculation, but is it possible Ivins crazed thinking was "Attack liberals, so it will be blamed on the right-wing christofascists goons?

Agent-Provocateur?

Without some kind of manifesto or a lot more of the writing materials the FBI claims to have this is way out of (excuse me) left field, but its what came to my mind when you mentioned his party affiliation and the attack on liberals.

Which is still, Party of Crazy, but it would be a left-wing kind o' crazy that I can see making sense to someone way out on their fringe side.

Posted by: dkshideler at August 06, 2008 06:13 PM (6nU4H)

21 There wouldn't have had to be missing Anthrax - he could simply have made extra. It's not like plutonium - if you have growth medium and live cells you can make more. Though it sounds like it's a bit tricky to get right.

The Japanese terror group Aum Shinrikyo tried to weaponize Anthrax which they used in Tokyo before the successful Tokyo Sarin gas attack.

From the cdc:

Later that month, pursuing an alternative technology, the cult attempted to release anthrax spores from its mid-rise Tokyo office building laboratory. At that time, police and media reported foul smells, brown steam, some pet deaths, and stains on cars and sidewalks. Then, in March 1995, just before the sarin subway attack, an attempt to spray botulin toxin in the subway at Kasumagaseki Station was preempted by a cult member who opted not to load the improvised briefcase sprayers with actual agent.

No injuries were reported in any of these biological events despite the fact the cult was dealing with very toxic materials. The cult's failures can be attributed to a variety of factors. The cult may not have had the right agents or the right technologic facilities; they could have overcooked the bioagents or not known how to use them. While the cult was well financed, it was not very successful in its efforts to recruit biological scientists. Still, the possibility exists that casualties associated with some of these releases might have not been detected or were attributed to other causes.


Posted by: Ace's liver at August 06, 2008 06:13 PM (XIXhw)

22

* How could such an unhinged guy, paranoid and alcoholic, maintain his position in a high-clearance bioweapons lab? "I don't want to speculate."

 

This is some scary crap, right here.  If the reports are to be believed, this guy had serious, longstanding psychological problems that were easily observable in his behavior.  What kind of security system do we have that would ignore this?

Posted by: Bugler at August 06, 2008 06:20 PM (YCVBL)

23 >>>Totally unwarranted speculation, but is it possible Ivins crazed thinking was "Attack liberals, so it will be blamed on the right-wing christofascists goons?

>>>Agent-Provocateur?

It's possible, but of course he actually attempted to pin it on Al Qaeda.  Your suggestion is a double-bluff sort of thing, two layers of cover.  I find that unlikely.

I guess it also has to be mentioned that he was stressed to see his vaccine program threatened with cancellation; as Daschle and Leahy controlled the Senate, they were more directly to "blame" for this than the Republicans in the minority.


Posted by: ace at August 06, 2008 06:23 PM (1WR4H)

24 When this story broke last week, I was very skeptical. Now I'm starting to think I was wrong and that Ivins is the culprit. Also, if the wikipedia article on the anthrax attacks is correct, the government didn't fail to reverse engineer the anthrax-they never even attempted to reverse engineer it.

Posted by: Jack Bauer's Evil Brother at August 06, 2008 06:24 PM (x9nD3)

25 Anthrax is a naturally occuring spore. To 'weaponize' it is to grow a strain which:

1. Is hardy and not easily eradicated
2. Remains in the air for a long period of time (to be effective it has to be inhaled).
3. Remains viable in the environment for long periods
(cross-contamination) ... as happened in the mail
4. You have an antidote for it

Egg-head developed an antidote. My .02 is that it wasn't enough. He wanted appreciation. Be a hero.
So release it on high profile targets that could not be ignored. Get people into a panic and have 'em line up for their shots. Only Egg-head didn't count on some envelopes being torn open in the mail sorting machines. I recall one victim died of cross contamination because she got a letter that had gone thru the Post Office in D.C.

Like I said earlier, too bad Egg-head didn't die of anthrax. Not a pretty death to suffocate in your own fluids.

Posted by: GarandFan at August 06, 2008 06:32 PM (eJ32B)

26

I missed the press conference. Was there any mention of how this guy was connected to the first place to get hit with a letter in Florida? Or the reporter who died down there? If memory serves, that reporter did have an indirect connection to the 9-11 koranimals in that his wife was a real estate agent who'd worked with them. And has the FBI ever officially stated that they found the Florida pharmacist who claimed to see an anthrax lesion on one of the hijacker's legs to be not credible? That still bothers me.

Posted by: TiredWench at August 06, 2008 06:35 PM (Kx1hM)

27 >>>Was there any mention of how this guy was connected to the first place to get hit with a letter in Florida?

I assume you mean the letter sent to the National Enquirer offices?  There was a question about this, but I don't remember the specifics.

As for the rest:  It seems to be the assumption/assertion that the pharmacist was wrong and that this had nothing to do with Atta and co.


Posted by: ace at August 06, 2008 06:46 PM (1WR4H)

28 >>>It's possible, but of course he actually attempted to pin it on Al Qaeda.  Your suggestion is a double-bluff sort of thing, two layers of cover.  I find that unlikely.<<<

Right. I was sort of thinking that the plan had to change after the coincidence of 9-11.

Probably a long shot. I was just trying to "think like the crazies do."

Posted by: dkshideler at August 06, 2008 07:02 PM (6nU4H)

29 Ivins skilled in techniques necessary to create weaponized spores; Ivins had access to freeze-drying machine called "lyopholizer" used to create dry spores from wet material; other technicians consulted him on the proper use of this machinery, demonstrating his expertise.

I hope it takes more than that. Lyophilizers are easy to use, and can be purchased for a few hundred dollars (and way up, for new ones) on sites like eBay.

Posted by: Big S at August 06, 2008 07:08 PM (aXPUH)

30 How is it "evidence" that he was vaccinated against anthrax? He worked with anthrax.  Wouldn't it be pretty standard to be vaccinated against an infectious agent that you work with?

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at August 06, 2008 07:27 PM (U9h+H)

31 >>>How is it "evidence" that he was vaccinated against anthrax? He worked with anthrax. 

It wasn't actually presented as evidence.  That occurred during the Q&A.  The reporter asked how he hadn't become sick, the FBI guy just said "because he vaccinated himself."


Posted by: ace at August 06, 2008 07:30 PM (1WR4H)

32 I am convinced.
The FBI always gets the right guy.

Posted by: Richard Jewell at August 06, 2008 10:06 PM (TPRbZ)

33 "He belongs to my party, so I cannot believe he is capable of terrorism or criminality."  I guess it's silly, but I always hoped the perpetrator(s) would not turn out to be American citizen(s.)

Posted by: g Hussein Keep Rockin' p at August 06, 2008 10:21 PM (9OT+1)

34 "Were any of the anthrax samples used actually weaponized?"  I'm guessing a lot of the "weaponized/bentonite/silica/fine-milling/electrostatic charge" stuff was just a clusterfuck of speculation by various "experts" that grew into a factoid.  After all, at least one of the letter attacks was posted while still wet!  Doesn't seem very sophisticated to me. 

Posted by: g Hussein Keep Rockin' p at August 06, 2008 10:32 PM (9OT+1)

35

Something important is being overlooked here. 

The letters themselves were a very, very clumsy frame of Islamic militants -- of the sort that anyone in the Islamic world would immediately see as a clumsy frame, but that might not be so obvious to someone only familiar with Western culture.

I always thought that the plan was to prompt some sort of hasty military action that upon further reflection would seem... overly hasty.  It could have brought down the Bush administration.  

Something is still missing from the story.

Posted by: steve o at August 06, 2008 10:32 PM (z7c3k)

36 if you want to witness a conspiracy theory in the making how about this:

http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2008/08/anthrax_and_credibility.php

After 9/11 and before the anthrax attacks government officials (including the Vice President) and some influential news pundits were advised to have a supply of ciprofloxicin on hand and even to start taking it. It was as if someone in the government knew that anthrax spores might be floating around soon. And indeed they were soon floating around, in Washington, DC and among the news media. What a coincidence. Now the story is the stuff came from a government lab from a long time weapons scientist. But don't worry. It wasn't a conspiracy

Sad state of affairs when the scientists on the left believe Glen Greenwald is really smart and slide into 9/11 Troofer territory

Posted by: streiff at August 06, 2008 11:12 PM (u8rp7)

37

So why did Ivins send the letters to liberals, mostly? Why not? For one thing, he was bonkers. For another thing, he wanted a lot of publicity, and, at the time, Daschle and Leahy were in the Senatorial majority. Republicans, at that time, were in the minority, due to Jumpin' Jim Jeffords.

It's much more devious than that. This guy created a fake conservative personna for himself so incase he was caught, he could damage conservatives. He didn't think to change his voting registration though.

He used a return address of a 4th grade class in Greendale. They actually found a way to connect him to that. Now, why if you're gonna use a fake return address would you have any connection to that address whatsoever when you could put anything or nothing there?  He used it because a connection could be gleaned at some point and it would smear the religious action group he donated to that was involved with the incident that the return address relates to.

The Daschle and Leahy thing is another one.  They are Democrats so therefore the anthrax attacker would be perceived to be a Republican. They actually found a way to connect him to some perceived hostility towards these two that makes no sense considering that he was a Democrat.  Ivins and his handlers were only creating a perception for use at a later time.

That's how I'm seeing it right now.

Posted by: Curtis at August 06, 2008 11:50 PM (W3MTk)

38 Of course George Bush drove him to do this... What else could it be?

Lot of loose ends here... I hope they did get the right guy.

Cheers!
Mark

Posted by: Mark at August 07, 2008 07:57 AM (jcJPo)

39 Aside from the question of guilt, one has to ask the question as to ... why someone with obvious mental conditions was working on weaponized bio-weapon capable materials ?

I have to question the sanity of the management at Fort Detrrick for letting this guy near this material.  Any good tort lawyer will have a field day.

Posted by: Neo at August 07, 2008 08:42 AM (Yozw9)

40

"One could conceivably take a couple of spores un-noticced and culture/reproduce them like yeast to yield almost as much as one would want. Doing this while leaving no traces is the really tough part."

 

I would think that the really tough part would be milling the prep so that you have fine enough particles to persist in the air, and to do so without leaving a trace (I doubt that he had access to the milling equipment).  This still presupposes that any of the anthrax was milled.  And I'm deeply unimpressed (at this point) WRT the DNA evidence (and I'll point out that DNA and the enzymes that lovingly tend to it are pretty much my specialty).  They most certainly could have DNA evidence that is a slam dunk, but I won't believe it until I see it.

Posted by: Crimso at August 07, 2008 08:49 AM (f+Km4)

41 So much for your he was a Dem. theory. I've been registered as one for a long time just so I can mess up their primaries since 1984. I can assure you I am not one,I am only anti-incumbent. Had to do it that way to operate in *ew Jersey. And big fat pumpkinhead Limbaugh acts like he invented it! tee hee

Posted by: John Doh at August 07, 2008 10:13 AM (NFNQx)

42 Ace, thanks for the updated details.

Ivins life is a sad, WEIRD story that catapults Berlioz' Symphony Fantastique drug induced dream into the realm of a child's night time story. That the FBI is not explicating the coincidental arrangement between Ivins and al Quaeda is as unsettling as Ivins' suicide. Though the suicide will be "explained" as it played out Ivins' last act, no one will dare touch the al Quaeda coincidental arrangement. Therein, though, lies the crux to national and international security. Perhaps it will be played, after all, in order to sell the vaccine after the technique is publicized raising public fears. The conspiracy twist remains: Ivins with dirty hands, having completed his work, was eliminated by accomplices as both a wild card security risk and easy target single culprit patsy for the 2001 biological terrorism.

Regarding "the strength of the case rests chiefly on the FBI's "new techniques" of postively identifying the "genetic parents" of an anthrax sample. Only when they release these techniques to the public can scientists verify the techniques are sound." Actually, I would hope that the techniques to verify are proven by experts outside of the government yet confined to confidentiality of that information as it seems an obvious threat if made public ("how to" manual). But that's a contradictory setting; any academic or specialist outside of the government will of course let the anthrax cat out of the bag as the professional game is played.

Finally, that Ivins was a consistent Democrat is not surprising to discover. However, note that if voting in every primary election is a sign of emotional instability or antisocial behavior, responsible citizenship is doomed to reclassification.


Posted by: maverick muse at August 07, 2008 10:51 AM (F1b/5)

43 lyophilizer

Is the US government really the only agency that has a lyophilizer?

Posted by: maverick muse at August 07, 2008 10:56 AM (F1b/5)

44

"Is the US government really the only agency that has a lyophilizer?"

 

Well, I'm not an agency (nor am I part of the U.S. government), but I have one.

 

"Actually, I would hope that the techniques to verify are proven by experts outside of the government yet confined to confidentiality of that information as it seems an obvious threat if made public ("how to" manual)."

 

It's certainly possible that they have a DNA-based smoking gun, but I won't believe it until I see it.  I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to call me to look over the evidence, though.  BTW, I have (as part of an academic exercise) determined a fairly simple way you could enhance the mayhem (i.e., lethality) from an anthrax attack.  Hint: they don't treat you with penicillin if they think you were exposed.

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45 Lefty bloggers = Nutjobs

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