1 Our local talker announced that they are dropping Savage this morning. Good riddance I say. He's loud, obnoxious & insulting.

2 He didn't say that, and he discussed the issue for the entire show last night, with critics and doctors calling in.

3

this guy is obviously a world class authority when it comes to putzes as he sees one in the mirror every morning.

 

4

He didn't say that, and he discussed the issue for the entire show last night, with critics and doctors calling in.

okay mrs savage you can stop whining now.

5 I regularly listed to the Savage Nation. And while I don't agree with everything Dr. Savage says he is not a knee jerk idiot. I believe his remarks were taken out of context. His general discussion was regarding doctors over prescribing ritalin and the lack of a precise medically based diagnosis of autism. He is ignored by MSM including Fox because of his independent views. I would dig a bit deeper before accepting this story at face value.

6 eee waaa nnn ahhh guuuhhh feeehhh.

7 I like the gold Porche.

So there.

8

LMG - please clarify.  I'd be willing to give the guy a fair hearing but it takes more than "he didn't say that".  What did he say?  If this is a quote out of context what was the context?

The left can get away with shit by simply saying "that's not what I meant" or "these words are out of context".  But we can't, and any conservative that doesn't understand that probably shouldn't be on the air in the first place.  That's why Newt was such a disaster despite his brilliance.

9

having a kid with adhd - diagnosed independantly 3 times including the hospital for sick kids - i can tell you the medication is a life saver.

every bit of reading i have done including a autobiography of an adhd kid praises the meds available for these kids.

i used to think that he was just a pain in the ass and the docs overprescribed etc but its bullshit - better living through chemistry. if it works and it helps and there are no bad side effects prescribe away.

my kid gets good grades now. he has friends, we are not called to the school 3-4 times a week and the kid is growing his self esteem seeing that he can overcome his condition.

and he is the same kid he always was just in some control of himself.

sure there are docs that over do it - that's why you get a second and third opinion and don't let your prejudices stop your kids from having a life.

a doctor - especially one with a national forum - is being callous and just plain wrong saying 99% are  bullshit.

10

In 99% of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is.

Is this quote accurate?  If it's accurate, Savage should apologize.  I don't see how "context" can justify such an outrageous, idiotic statement.

11

He is an over the top personality but I think there is a point in there (somewhere). Autism and ADD and ADHD seem to be on scales that allow ,at the low end, Dr.s to diagnose and treat (drug) personalities.

Your kid is socially akward? Must be a high functioning autistic. Here, have a pill.

12

Well, I guess my severely autistic son must be in the other 1%, then.

Fucking idiot.

13 Howard Stern is suing...

14 In 99% of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is.

As the father of an autistic child, Michael Savage can kiss my ass.

15 In Obama's regime, Savage would be arrested...

16

I found this in the comments at the linked site (no idea if it's true):

Its sad when people post on speech they did not hear. I suspect you did not listen to this, of if you heard anything, heard an out of context snippet.

Did you know Savage had an autistic brother, who died in his 20's? Did you know he has written about autism, as long as 25 years ago?

That what he was railing on was a health care and school system that can diagnose 1 in 160 kids as "autistic? Its "dialing for dollars", the more prognosis for autism, the more money for programs, the more money for the school and the more money for unethical doctors who do an off the cuff prescription of autism.

I don't listen to savage. But judging on how I've seen Rush Limbaugh's quotes covered it wouldn't exactly floor me if it was the case.

One ought to be very skeptical without having a complete transcript.

17 He is ignored by MSM including Fox because of his independent views.

Uh, not so much. He's ignored because he's a screamer.

18 What do you expect from Michael (I hope you get aids & die) Savage.

19 I guess that was out of context too.

20 Hey let's take comments out of context on a right-wing guy. Call him a fascist. Then stupid people will sing along "(I hope you get aids & die)"

21 From someone who has had to live with ADD all of his life and have coped without the use of medicine I'd just like to point out that most of you commenting on the affliction really have no idea what your talking about.

Specifically you Dr. Akim.

22 CONTEXT? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING CONTEXT! Savage is right-wing (=fascist). He said bad things about gay people once (but not really). I am conservative (but not really) and I am outraged! (not really). But to make sure I am still hip and cool I will protest this non-issue!

23

"He didn't say that, and he discussed the issue for the entire show last night, with critics and doctors calling in."

 

He did say exactly that.  i listend to the clip this morning.  Savage is a nitwit. 

24

i listend to the clip this morning. 

Yah, but you're listening to a bit that Media Matters clipped.

What did he say before the clip you heard is what I'd like to know. It may have made clear what he claims - that's he talking about overdiagnosis.

That doesn't make him right  - I have no fricken idea ... though Thomas Sowell seems to agree with him there is an epidemic of false diagnosis - but it would mean he wasn't calling actually autistic kids fakers, now, wouldn't it?

I have no idea. I'm no regular fan of Savage anyway.

I just don't trust a Media Matters hitjob. And you shouldn't either.

25 Anything useful he has to say is lost in a blizzard of idiocy and spittle filled rants.

Good riddance.

26

Why is everyone shocked? This is a guy who has a very strong stance against psychology. He is essentially a scientologist without the alien shit.

27

Hmmm.  So what is it that makes someone a liar?  Is it the 99%.  Would anyone deny 1%?  Is the truth that there are probably a lot of kids that fake stuff so that they can get/and or avoid something.  I know that you've done it, even if it was getting sick for a test, or some other lame thing.

So, instead of dealing with the claim that ADD is overdiagnosed and over medicated, wer'e gonna get out the rope?  WTF people?  Was the guy making a valid point and used the wrong statistic?  Is the subject off limits?  What kind of PC crap is that?

Have the discussion.  Bring some facts.  Don't tar and feather the guy for bringing it up.

28 People still listen to Savage?  What, are you retarded or something?

29

Whether you like or dislike Savage, or what other idiotic things he's allready said, has nothing to do with it.

I've seen Media Matters do this before, and so have you. And that's where this is coming from. I've seen the way they twist and distort a person's meaning to be 180 degrees reversed from what was meant.

Media Matters hit job folks.

As much as you might dislike Savage, and I've no affinity for him either, they couldn't possibly have any less credibility. It ought to be sending up red flags of skepticism regardless of the claim.

The NY Daily News story is getting their info and quote from Media Matters.

30

I can't believe how many of the commenters here sound a lot like Barry's minions when they were screaming "context" about Jeremiah Wright's outrageous remarks.

No context makes "God Damn America!" anything less than offensive. No context makes "You want to know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99% of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is." anything less than monumentally incorrect.

I'm not "offended" by Savage's remarks because they're just stupid and wrong. But I do wish he'd pick a subject he at least knows a little about before opening his mouth and removing all doubt that he's an idiot.

You want to know what autism is? Spend 5 minutes at my house, and you'll know exactly what it is. And I really do wish my son was just faking it. That would take a little pressure off the 2 lifetimes of earnings I need to pack into one to be able to provide for him from the grave.

31

The guy's an asshole, even when he's talking sense.

He hates Limbaugh, who he calls uneducated and "the golfer".

He's filled with social resentments, always huffing and puffing about his PhD (in  nutritional ethnomedicine).

Anyone who believes in homeopathy (which posits that an aspirin tossed into a swimming pool magically transmits aspirin's properties to every water molecule in the pool) is a farking FOOL. 

 

32 Did he mention anything about Hawaiian Punch and Otter Pops being the devil?  My mother wants to know.

33 You want to know what autism is? Spend 5 minutes at my house, and you'll know exactly what it is.

Ditto.
The only way the context could be introduced would be where he to have intended to discuss ADHD (where medication is usually necessary) instead of Autism or the Autism spectrum (where supplements can be a lifesaver - vitamin B12 is like spinach to Popeye for our son - in some cases, but usually are of no assistance).  Otherwise, he's completely ignorant.

For those telling us that he's no fool; calling someone and 'idiot' when they say something stupid is a play on language.  Smart people do stupid things.  He's smart, but very, very, very, very ignorant on this matter.

The NY Daily News story is getting their info and quote from Media Matters.

Thus, I'm inclined to see his response.  MM are a conglomerate of Soros funded liars.  If he meant ADHD, then fine. Otherwise, he's ignorant.

34 "You want to know what autism is? Spend 5 minutes at my house, and you'll know exactly what it is. And I really do wish my son was just faking it."

So you think the radio is talking to YOU personally? Are the radio waves entering your brain? LOL!

35 Meh.

Mark Levin is better.

36

Anyone who believes in homeopathy ... is a farking FOOL. 

Hey, I resent that!

Oh, I thought you said homosexuality.  Sorry.

COCK!

37

He wasn't picking on anyone who REALLY has autism or ADHD he was attacking the medical community and the schools for the extremely high rate of misdiagnosis that is soley for the doctor's/school's benefit.  Some time in the late '80s Ritalin became a substitute for discipline.  Lots of kids who didn't really need it were given Ritalin

The fact that he claimed 99% is just pure exageration used to amplify his point.  He pulled that number out the air.

I rarely get a chance to listen to Savage and when I do, I usually find him extremely obnoxious and abrasive.  Even when I agree with him on a subject I usually don't agree with the way he delivers his message.  But I will defend him on this one.  For those of you who really have an autistic child or a kid with ADHD, why don't you direct your anger at the doctors(not necessarily your own doctor) who have done nothing but get rich while trivializing a serious affliction.

38

From someone who has had to live with ADD all of his life and have coped without the use of medicine I'd just like to point out that most of you commenting on the affliction really have no idea what your talking about.

Specifically you Dr. Akim.

Posted by: Aurvant at July 22, 2008 12:55 PM (VvcWe)

i have been living with this 'affliction' too.

i know what i know from my personal experience over the last 4 years dealing with 15 doctors/therapists/specialists i have discussed the topic with and the 8 teaching professonials that i have consulted with and what i have read and studied on the subject regarding my own son -

so 'specifically' what have i no idea about?

39 Is the truth that there are probably a lot of kids that fake stuff so that they can get/and or avoid something.

Faking autism?  Wow, that's a new one.

So you're saying that kids refuse to participate in basic development and intentionally avoid learning the basics; talking, understanding primary words said to them, interaction with toys or other children, rewards for accomplishing the basics and sit in the corner humming 14 hours per day - beginning at the age where a kid generally is still crapping in their diapers and couldn't rationalize your premise - all because they want another cookie?

40

No one is claiming that autistic children do not exist, or that autism is a fraud. Those parents of autistic children know that there are a multitude of problems attributing to their child's condition and situation. Of those attributing factors, warmth & stability, nutrition, exercise, rest, attention, routine and FINALLY Rx are likely the ordered approach of responsible parents. If a parent is irresponsible enough to think that a magic pill will cure their child of autism, then that parent deserves the awakening to become responsible.

"Anything useful he has to say is lost in a blizzard of idiocy and spittle filled rants. Good riddance." --@ 1:06 DrewM.

Not that I would, but your detractors could sum you up likewise, Drew. Idiocy is not and accurate description of Savage. And unless I am mistaken, you wrote that you don't listen to him when I referenced Savage to conclude a previous Pharmaceutical discussion.

"while I don't agree with everything Dr. Savage says he is not a knee jerk idiot. I believe his remarks were taken out of context. His general discussion was regarding doctors over prescribing ritalin and the lack of a precise medically based diagnosis of autism"--Infidel @ 12:27

I've already commented a week ago that my saturation level for "news" was overloading, but Savage's latest loss of patience becoming rude beyond acceptability is not news, nor reason to be blacklisted. Truth be told, I have actually heard Savage apologize on rare occasion. Like others posting here, I, too, have heard him speaking on many occasions of the significance of proper nutrition and exercise for healthy bodies, and that today's generations not only have bad eating and lethargic habits, but are over loading on "make my life easier" prescribed drugs. He has also concisely noted the link between pharmaceutical MARKETING interests vs. a patient's true medical needs. The role that doctors play today vs. yesteryear is also something that Savage notes in his comments, as doctors do market drugs for a kickback incentive. Evidently, Savage became enraged with someone doubting his authority. So what's new? There's always that moment when Savage FIRST attempts to find the point in common between himself and his detractor in his effort to begin a rational debate. You should have turned it off after that point if it offends you as it does me to hear him get offensive while reiterating his point to a dectractor who refuses to listen. It's Savage's style, and a lot of weak kneed people find vicarious strength in him.  If the shoe fits, wear it. Otherwise, leave it for some bum who needs a shoe.

In 30 years instructing clients, I too have noted the huge upswing in poorly reared children of leniently reared parents, and odd parents so engrossed with their inner life that they do not relate within a social structure. Of course I have met the autistic, and refered them to a specialist. But generally, 30 years ago there would only be a few emotionally troubled among my clients; whereas today, there are only a few clients who are not emotionally troubled. And of the troubled clients today, most fall into descriptive categories Savage discusses regularly.

Life's not easy. Life's not fair. You want to sue Savage because he hurt your feelings? Get in line, moocher. Savage does a lot for our military, specifically for the PC outcasts being tried by our Commander in Chief. Until you do more good for the world than Savage does, just drop it.

41

No context makes "God Damn America!" anything less than offensive. No context makes "You want to know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99% of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is." anything less than monumentally incorrect.

Well, you're wrong. Though he may be more bombastic then Thomas Sowell, (And I'll defend bombacism anywhere, anyplace), he's not neccesarily claiming anything Sowell is not.

And no one can claim Sowell is not a reasonable, intelligent, nice guy.

While '99%' is probably a gross exageration, context might clarify that he's talking about over-diagnosis and over-medication like he says he was. And, agree or disagree, it's a rational issue, and there's lots of calm and reasonable people saying the same thing about autism.

Not that any autistic kid is faking it, but that it's being diagnosed incorrectly perhaps more often then it actually occurs. There's a reasonable argument to be made there (regardless of how unreasonably you state it).

I'm not even saying his point (if that's even it) is true.. I have no fuckin clue whatsoever about anything about autism. But it's a reasonable argument. And if Sowell is making it, well, you're not gonna tell me he's a jackass, there must be some merit to it.

The guy's an asshole, even when he's talking sense.

He hates Limbaugh, who he calls uneducated and "the golfer".

I don't really care. I don't like him either. I'm not defending him because he's my guy or something. He ain't. I've heard him on the radio of all like twice, ever, and struck me as .... depressing and angry.

But Media Matters. There aren't many I hate more then them, or for less good reason, and their bullshit is not to be trusted nearly as far as you can chuck them.

Using quotes taken out of context to grossly misrepresent what radio hosts or other 'conservative' figgures say is like, what they get payed for. Ginning up a furor over intentionally deceptive misquotes is their job, man.

42 This is a subject of some interest to me ( autism,auspbergers, not Michael Savage).I look forward to the commenters with real life experience addressing this issue.
 My son was practically diagnosed by his idiot kindergarten teacher as having ADD or ADHD. Needless to say , I was concerned . I realize that ADD is not the same as full blown autism but they're supposedly in the autism spectrum
Since when did active and intelligent young boys that have difficulty sitting still and concentrating for 8 hrs. become members of some kind of psychological disorder category ? From everything that I've read the difference between ADD , ADHD and gifted children is pretty arbitrary. I'd venture that a good half of our most famous Americans would probably be on drugs by the third grade if they were around today.  Mark Twain is the example that springs to mind for me. Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn would drugged into a stupor in 2008.

43

To those of you who want Savage's head on a pike over this - why are you relying on a Media Matters hit piece for your information?  Why don't y'all read what he meant for yourself?

I'm no great fan of the Frisco Food Critic myself, but he deserves a fairer hearing of his statements than what he's getting here or over at Hot Air.

44 Not that any autistic kid is faking it, but that it's being diagnosed incorrectly perhaps more often then it actually occurs. There's a reasonable argument to be made there (regardless of how unreasonably you state it).

Yes, there is an argument for saying that sometimes autism is misdiagnosed.

Saying that 99% of the time pretty much erodes the foundation for the argument, though.

I have Sowell's first book on late talkers (my son was, later diagnosed - correctly - with autism) and the man is as legitimate a source as I can imagine.  Sure, there are misdiagnoses.  There are misdiagnoses of cancer, AIDS, STDs, most everything.  There's a large leap from "your son has autism" & finding out later that they were just developmentally disabled in some other form, to "it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out".

Tell me, do you think a parent would rather tell their kid to cut it out our swat their bottoms OR spend tens of thousands of dollars on testing & therapy and sometimes have their entire lives changed?  I mean, seriously? 

Mediamatters caveat included, of course. 

45

I know next to nothing about autism; it's quite possible some kids are diagnosed with it simply because they have behavior problems, but the one's I've seen definitely weren't "faking it".

However, 100% of the kids I've seen affected with "ADD" simply had idiot parents who didn't believe in discipline but rather preferred to reason with their 4 year old like an adult instead of acting like an actual parent.

ADD might very well exist as an actual medical condition, but if so I've never seen it when I was in grade school or in the kids of friends and relatives who supposedly have it.  They were just undisciplined brats that resulted from bad parenting.

46 Why act like a moron when you can be one, have a talk show or post here with the AoSHQ morons.

47 I'm offended at Thomas Sowell!! THE man is an idiottt!! his spittle is on every column. I hate him, the fascist liar! Does he know what it's like/ DOES HE?

48

I'd never argue that Savage should be fired over this or anything like that. Like with Stern, Imus, etc. his advertisers have already made the decision that the benefits outweigh the risks of whatever way-out statement he may make every now and then, and that's fine.

But folks, he's pulling this '99%' number out of his ass. With no study other than from the Savage Department of Makin' Shit Up to support it, he's no better than Al Gore shilling for your carbon credit dollars because we've only got 10 years left to reverse eeevvilll man-made global warming.

There are lots of families like mine who live with the challenges of autism every day that know just how real and life-altering a correct diagnosis is. There are definitely incorrect diagnoses, too, but Savage crawled way out on a skinny limb to beat his anti-medicine/pharmaceutical company drum in this instance.

Oddly enough, there are many people in the autism community who share the same sort of conspiracy mindset as Savage, except they believe the CDC and the medical community conspired to give their kids autism through vaccines. It's surprising that Savage didn't just buy into this conspiracy.

49 It should be noted that "Don't act like a moron" has been found to have no therapeutic value even when said to actual certified morons.

It's never worked on me!

50

Savage does a lot for our military, specifically for the PC outcasts being tried by our Commander in Chief.

Posted by: maverick muse at July 22, 2008 01:56 PM (F1b/5)

". . . tried by our Commander in Chief." WTF is that supposed to mean, son?

51

Comments made at the new new comments site thingy don't show up here?

52

But folks, he's pulling this '99%' number out of his ass. With no study other than from the Savage Department of Makin' Shit Up to support it, he's no better than Al Gore shilling for your carbon credit dollars because we've only got 10 years left to reverse eeevvilll man-made global warming.

This gets me though.

What the hell do you even see in the transcript that suggests that was cited as an actual, factual statistic, and not just a figgure of speach?

Come on... Of course he's pulling it out of his ass. Breath into a paper bag..

99% of everyone who says "99%" is just making shit up to illustrate a point.

See? Lots. I mean lots.

And I'm not exactly enjoying having to defend Michael Savage all day long. We at least need better attacks here folks.

53

Entropy, I get that, but 99% or 90% or some other big, scary number is critical to his argument. If he said "most" or "the majority" or something like that, it wouldn't have the same effect. Figure of speech - check.

My point is that he truly has no fucking idea whether the rate of misdiagnosis is large or small, so he goes with large since it matches his previously-expressed beliefs about medicine/pharma.

Same as ManBearPig and CO2.

54 I listen to Savage a lot, and I've actually heard him wonder aloud what is causing the spike in autism. I think he feels that there is something real going on. I just assumed he meant most of the adhd kids were faking, but he lumped in autism as well. I have heard many rants from him about "hyperactive" kids. Just my two cents.

55 ....this man has done incredible things for the cause(conservative Americans).....today the NYDaily has article about docs and the millions they receive from these particular drug companies.. ...bravo michael savage... .. ......

56 "If he said "most" or "the majority" or something like that, it wouldn't have the same effect."

No, you dipshts would still be pretending to be offended.

57

You may wish to read  <a href="http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/07/21/autism-diagnoses-and-parenting-problems/ ">Autism diagnoses and parenting problems </a>

"...Apparently I’m not the only one who has noticed this diagnostic trend — that is, to reach a psychiatric conclusion that all tantruming little children have a disease — although I pointed it out tactfully and to a small audience.  Radio host Michael Savage apparently made the same point, but did so in way that managed to offend everyone:"

"...As I already demonstrated months ago, I think Savage is on to something.  While all of us recognize that there are genuinely disabled kids out there, kids whose behaviors span the spectrum from severe autism to geeky Aspergers, those of us who are honest recognize that there is also a major epidemic of bad, weak, inconsistent parenting out there, and that it is creating thousands of damaged kids who are treated, not with good parenting, but with bad medicine..." 

58

Entropy, I get that, but 99% or 90% or some other big, scary number is critical to his argument. If he said "most" or "the majority" or something like that, it wouldn't have the same effect. Figure of speech - check.

My point is that he truly has no fucking idea whether the rate of misdiagnosis is large or small, so he goes with large since it matches his previously-expressed beliefs about medicine/pharma.

Look, that's all well and nice, and I'm not gonna defend Savage against charges of, essentially, 'I don't care for him', because frankly I don't care for him either.

But it's got nothing to do with the 'controversy' in question. The controversy, if you'll beleive 99% of the reporting, is that Savage apparently is evil and the substance of his message was, if you have an autistic kid who can't spell his own name, he's a spoiled brat and your a bad parent and the disease is fake.

That's the message being pushed in this Media Matters hit job. That's what most people are all godawful outraged about. That's not even close to what he was apparently actually saying.

Par for the course. Nothin new here.

Nothing the man said, substantively -  unless you twist his meaning to include people he says he was never talking about - can be portrayed as outrageous, meanspiritied, hateful, despicable, etc. etc. There's no there there.

59 Hmmm

@ Ace

"Don't act like a moron"

I can attest to this.  I've been screaming this at Mr. New Jersey, Frank Lautenberg, for years now.

Still hasn't sunk in yet.

60 Hmmm

It really amazes me how this blog works.

Some times the real venom only comes out when a right winger is the target.

That's pretty fucking sad.

61

Tinian at July 22, 2008 03:49 PM

This is Bush's watch, and he has yet to intercede for either troops falsely accused, or for his VP's Libby in the CIA not-a-leak scandal. Leaving his innocent servants out to suffer unjust abuse and assassination of character and destruction of one's life by a mishandled Judicial system is what I referenced. Allowing millions of tax dollars spent to prosecute innocent troops is not worthy of the highest degree of integrity. Others would say that sacrificing the lamb at the slaughter is a virtuous ritual today, but I think not.

You can have your opinion as well. Whether I accept it or not does not require any offensive banter.

62 Savage is an idiot, an opportunist, a screeching fool who deliberately tries to provoke and rides the right wing talk show host bandwagon to the bank. He's a waste of time to listen to. However, I suspect that it is true that some children diagnosed as autistic aren't and that most kids diagnosed as ADHD are just being normal kids.

63 This is Bush's watch, and he has yet to intercede for either troops falsely accused, or for his VP's Libby in the CIA not-a-leak scandal.

Posted by: maverick muse at July 22, 2008 05:35 PM (F1b/5)

Umm...Bush commuted Scooter Libby's sentence. Please try to keep up.

Allowing millions of tax dollars spent to prosecute innocent troops is not worthy of the highest degree of integrity.

Posted by: maverick muse at July 22, 2008 05:35 PM (F1b/5)

I don't know if it's possible for the president to halt military legal proceedings. I doubt that it is, though I may be wrong. Abe Lincoln commuted the sentences of several Union soldiers convicted of crimes. It would not be wise for a president to halt legal proceedings against anybody before due process has been served. That's the stuff of Kings and Emperors, not American presidents.

64 You Savage-haters are relying on Media Matters for an acurate account? What a foolish thing to do.

65 Savage is no different than any other shock jock: If Howard the human waste pump has said it it'd be washed away already. Not that Savage is right but just that the press is selective in it outrage. Get used to it; it'll happen again.
Take a deep breathe and relax.

66

So long as we wear these chemical bodies, folks, all of our behavior is chemically mediated, even discipline: and more specifically, all of our behavior is electrochemically mediated via voltage gated ion channels, ATPase ion pumps, chemical neurotransmitters (which allow modulation of stimulus-response functions), and the polypeptide chemical catalysts that mediate and modulate chemical and electrochemical reactions.

Better living through chemistry is correct. That is why G-d gave us ministers and physicians.

 

--"It never ceases to amaze me that people, especially leftist politicians, think that you can wave a magic wand and repeal the laws of physics, chemistry, and economics."

67 The funny thing is. the basic discord here is over whether Savage is an idiot or Media Matters is manipulative and dishonest.

It's not like both can't be true.

The Savage fans who show up and start arguing (on the assumption that) AoS is a leftist hangout are extremely amusing, however.

68 While I'm not a fan of Michael Savage, the commenters on this post pull apart your post, Ace, or at least show its regrettably out of context and one sided.

I concur with the posters. My INITIAL reaction was that Savage was characteristically an asshole... upon looking into it, I realized there's more to the story and Savage is fairly well versed and personally impacted on this subjected.

Yes, his 99% figure is hyperbole... but his general point is sound.

69 *subject

70

"Entropy, I get that, but 99% or 90% or some other big, scary number is critical to his argument. If he said "most" or "the majority" or something like that, it wouldn't have the same effect. Figure of speech - check.

My point is that he truly has no fucking idea whether the rate of misdiagnosis is large or small, so he goes with large since it matches his previously-expressed beliefs about medicine/pharma."

 

Open dictionary.  Go to the letter "H."  Find the word "Hyperbole."  Realize that you need a fucking clue.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

 

Savage is the red-blooded American Id and I love his show madly.  I refuse to play this modern game of the Emperor's New Offense. 

71 Ya wanna know the context? Ya wanna know what he really said? Listen

72 I just thought I wus a stupid dumbass when I was a child.

Now I know I wus autistic.

Doh!

73 Savage is definitely a bomb throwing loud mouth braggart and know it all expert, BUT how does:
"In 99% of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is."
become:
"99% of Autistic Children Really Just Brats Faking It"?
Savage never implied that the kids were deliberately putting on an act.

I'm skeptical because media matters is involved and on their front page they have the quote as:
Savage on autism: "A fraud, a racket. ... In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out".

That little "..." shows there is a context issue that media matters has edited something out. If you listen to the quote, Savage claims Asthma was being misdiagnosed in minority children as a money racket. So why isn't THAT an issue too?

74 Yes, his 99% figure is hyperbole... but his general point is sound.

Okay, since Tawana Brawley faked rape, I'll just say that 99% of the women out there claiming rape are simply chicks who crave attention & only needed their parents to smack them around a bit whenever they get out of line.

And I'll expect all you folks defending Savage's ignorance to stand up for me if some woman who was raped ends up getting offended.

Hey, my general point is sound.
-

Savage effed up, folks, stop carrying the water.  He can say something stupid & still do good work for vets.  Good lord, this is akin to the Obama defenders trying to square his stance on handguns.....

75

stop carrying the water.  He can say something stupid

Saying something stupid (A) is not a crime, (B) is not the point of this controversy. The hootin and hollering is about his percieved message, not his rigorous data analysis or loose speaking habits..

Like I said, if you don't like the way he talks, don't like his hyperbolic and abrasive style, don't like the way he reaches his opinions or think he skews the facts, don't listen. I won't defend him - I don't like it either. I don't listen.

But he's just plain old not being the mean old bastard he's being made out to be. He's not calling authentically autistic kids fakers, he's bitching about misdiagnosis like they have for ADD. Period. That's the substance of what he's saying.

Paper bag, guys. Breath into one. What the hell ever happened to sticks and stones?

It's to a point where it doesn't even matter what you say, people just don't like how you said it...

And yeah - I have asthma. Grew up with it. He says asthma was all a racket too. Didn't seem like a racket to me when I got double pnuemonia and ended up in the ER 3 times in 2 weeks because I kept almost dying from not breathing...

Big whoops. I really don't care. He wasn't even talking about me - and even if he was (which he wasn't) who cares even then? STILL not me... Christ allmighty if we kicked people off the air for being jackasses and/or wrong, we'd have nothing on TV but the chanel that shows a log burning in the fireplace 24/7. Where's all the hollering to throw Olbermann off the air or boycott him because xxx fact was wrong? It just comes down to people not liking his style, and choosing to be allmight outraged and offended by him. (or being misled about the substance of what he was saying by Media Matters et al). I don't like his style either, I don't listen.

Don't look me straight in the eye and say he mispoke, or he got a statistic wrong, and because his statistic was incorrect you want him dropped from syndication on your local station ! Pshhh. Yeah right. That's a smoke screen.

FFS our next President can't tell the difference between 57 and 50, or "thousands" and 11.

76 Savage I most certianly hope that you will be able to sleep well at night, there are people out there stupid enough to believe your bull-shit, and they will try to beat Autism out of their children. The amount of child abuse that will come out of your stupid remark will be astounding. I hope you are pleased with yourself, You need to be charged with facilitating child abuse and neglect, I am the mother of an 11 year old autistic child, and his father is here every day,so your comment about these children not having fathers is crap as well. My son got sick after taking a shot for school, we didn't want this for our son, and nobody with or without a child that has any form of Autism would want this lable placed on their child for the sake of excusung they're behavior. You are as stupid and racist as they come and just as soon as I can get someone to help care for my son while I deal with you, I plan to contact an attourney and file a class action suit against you and your employers on behalf of these children and their families. I hope that one day you have some one in your life become autistic, No on the other hand I pray not, You are so uneducated and stupid that you would try to beat it out of them. I hope God has mercy on your soul.

77 ADD/ADHD is not some psychological disease that needs to be treated as a crutch. Your whole "better living through chemistry" idea just isn't feasible on everything and ADD/ADHD is included.

We're not autistic and we're not developmentally challenged. In fact, we are far more gifted than the normal individual who doesn't have ADD, but the recent spring up of paniced parents and soccor moms have demonized the affliction to make it seem that those who have it are "retarded".

Let me explain it to you. Imagine, if you will, that your mind is a television set. Your thoughts played out on the screen and a normal person sits there, remote in hand, and is able to change the channel accordingly. However, people with ADD aren't as fortunate and we sit there watching television but someone else has stolen our remote and is randomly flipping the channels without pause.

The reason for our inability to pay attention stems from the fact that we absorb all input around us. We take in all input without being able to focus directly on a task at hand even if the stimulus input doesn't even interact with us at all. Children find it harder to focus because the ADD forces their mind to pay attention to everything rather than what they "need" to pay attention to. However, through certain teachings and disciplines you can teach a child to overcome the problems without the use of medicating the shit out of them.

I know because I did it myself.

As for our "gifts" many people with ADD are able to achieve hyper-focus and with the training of neurofeedback you can retrain the brain to focus normally without the use of drugs.

Next time you see a kid bouncing around and you think to yourself "he has ADHD and he needs some medicine." why don't you stop and think that maybe the reason he's doing it is because he is 1) distracted and just needs discipline and 2) he's still hearing it and learning it but now he's just bored as hell.

I just think your approaching the situation from the whole "I need drugs to fix my life" mentality when you need to be looking at it like "I need to find a way to help myself without drugging myself up."

78

Posted by: Jackie hupp at July 23, 2008 09:28 AM (e9gb2)

Kinda proves my point. This person is not upset at bad statistics. 90% of all statistics are just made up anyway. Like it would have been any better if he had just pulled '60%' out of his ass.

This person is not upset over that - that's not the issue. She's very clearly grossly misinterpreting the point of what he was saying. Which is what Media Matters set out to have people do.

79 Entropy,

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm calling for any sort of boycott or ouster of Savage - I'm a conservative/libertarian, so that's not what I endorse.  Heck, I defended Imus while MSNBC was considering his fate.

That said, the reason that some of us (raising my hand) think this is beyond a simple "I can just change the channel" moment is that there is still a lot of inner-workings that surrounds (yep, I put 'inner workings and 'surrounds' in the same sentence) the phenomenon that is autism.  In my case, we're working with local legislators to have them consider autism being treated the same as something like asthma or pneumonia or the flu or diabetes, etc.  If I have knee surgery and am prescribed 10 sessions of physical therapy, my insurance does its part (and I pay my deductibles/premiums) and that's that.  If my autistic son is prescribed speech therapy or the like, it's OUT OF POCKET, baby.  And lemme tell ya, I'm well into five figures out of pocket and he's only eight years old. 

No, I don't want national health care, no I don't want handouts, no I don't want you paying for me.  I do, however, want autism to be treated as the neurologial disorder/disability/developmental entity/whatever that it IS instead of something that asshats like Mike Savage portend can be alleviated if I instill a little discipline my my toddler.  A, I do discipline my son whenever he does something wrong.  B, I don't discipline my son for being autistic, and humming or going into his own 'little world' at times is him being autistic.   If my son is mean to another kid, I bust him on the ass in a heartbeat.  If my son screams because another kid is too loud (autistic kids usually have extremely sensitive hearing) I'm not going to discipline him at all, any more than I'd discipline someone with epilepsy for having a seizure: that's their natural response and you can't go against nature.

What Savage said goes against the natural behavior of kids with autism and it's a slap in the face of someone who is a parent of an autistic kid to tell them that they only need to instill discipline to clear things up.  Am I outraged?  No.  Am I pissed?  No.  Will I turn of Savage?  Eh, don't think he's carried in my area, but I don't think less of him than I do McCain for supporting amnesty; we just disagree.

80 What a joke! People get personally offended by Imas calling some other people "nappy headed hos." People get personally offended by Savage saying autistic kids are faking it. People get personally offended by Peter Jackson including orcs and King Kong because they feel that orcs and King Kong look like black people. Are you a nappy headed ho? Is your kid faking it? Do you feel the fictional orcs and giant apes look like african-americans?

Why are they offended? If none of these things PERSONALLY apply to you, why are you PERSONALLY offended? Perhaps part of your mind thinks this is truth, a truth that should not be said?

81

No, I don't want national health care, no I don't want handouts, no I don't want you paying for me.  I do, however, want autism to be treated as the neurologial disorder/disability/developmental entity/whatever that it IS instead of something that asshats like Mike Savage portend can be alleviated if I instill a little discipline my my toddler.

See.... No.

Just no.

Michael Savage does not portend it can be alleviated if you install a little discipline in your toddler. That's not what he was talking about, it's just not.

You're deliberately misinterpreting him, and when someone asks you why, you say it's because you don't like his hyperbolic 99% figgure. For all either of us know, Savage agrees with you about the disability stuff.

In reality, I think, you are pissed not about what he said, or neccessarily how he said it, but that other people are going to misinterpret what he said the same way you're doing and think autism is fake.

That is actually what Savage was saying, and these false diagnosis for kids who just have behavioral issues hurts legitimate awareness. But the problem here is the way he said it is being misconstrued, and I think you fear people will just get the wrong idea from what he's saying (not that he's actually saying anything, but what people will misinterpret it as). So he did not speak with lawyerly precaution and 1000 caveats and a soft voice.

The net result of this is you're going after Savage not for what he said but for how artfully he said it (which is: not at all). Your serious emotional interest in the issue, however, distorts the response. You don't send pitchfork mobs after people for phrasing things poorly.

What Savage said goes against the natural behavior of kids with autism and it's a slap in the face of someone who is a parent of an autistic kid to tell them that they only need to instill discipline to clear things up. 

No, that's just not true. Again you're taking the Media Matters distortion. He did NOT say that all you need to do is discipline your child to fix real autism.

That was never his contention. It's a straw man.

He was complaining that bad doctors and ignorant teachers diagnose kids with behaviorial problems as being autistic.

82 Entropy,

I typed a looooong and thought out response (well, as much thinking as I can do) and I hit "post" and nothing happened.  It appears to have been lost in the "tubes" of the internet.  Darned if I'm going to type that thing again.  All I'll say is:

"He did NOT say that all you need to do is discipline your child to fix real autism".  Okay, I guess we need to parse "They don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz.'" so that it really means doctors and teachers.  And a parsing we will go...

And if this thing gets lost in the stratusphere, screw it....

83

"He did NOT say that all you need to do is discipline your child to fix real autism".  Okay, I guess we need to parse "They don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz.'" so that it really means doctors and teachers.  And a parsing we will go...

No. He's talking about the kids who have disciplinary problems who are misdiagnosed as being autistic. Not kids who are actually autistic.

Again, if you want to nail him for his manner of speaking, being confusing or delivering it poorly - go ahead. I don't care...but it's also not a hanging offense.

But don't (like media matters) twist the meaning against him by being lawyerly with his words so that it means the opposite of what he was trying to say.

At no point did he assert discipline fixes real autism. That's the "1%". He was saying that alot of these kids who are diagnosed as autistic aren't austic, they just need discipline, and to be told not to act like a moron - because they aren't autistic. He was bitching about the misdiagnose of behaviorial problems as mental diseases. That's what he was talking about the whole spiel - that's the context.

Look:

http://www.bookwormroom.com/2008/07/21/autism-diagnoses-and-parenting-problems/

Is this bookworm guy an asshole? Is he saying autistic kids just need a good spanking? Do you have any complaints about what this bookworm guy is saying?

OK .... he's saying the same thing Savage said, albeit more carefully. He even says as much, that Savage is just saying basically what he said.

Why use a lawyerly parsing of his words to change his (obvious, in my opinion) intended meaning? Just to get mad at him over it, because of the phrasing essentially?

84 Again, if you want to nail him for his manner of speaking, being confusing or delivering it poorly - go ahead.

That's all I was doing.

He was saying that alot of these kids who are diagnosed as autistic aren't austic, they just need discipline, and to be told not to act like a moron - because they aren't autistic.

If that's what he was doing, there'd be no problem.  Heck, I'll join him on that, far too many parents coddle their kids.  But, you see, he didn't say alot of these kids, he said 99%.   The 99% thing was basically the only thing I disagreed with, but it's a pretty effing big item. 

Just to get mad at him over it, because of the phrasing essentially?

I'm not mad at him (I did type that earlier, didn't I?).  He effed up and said something ignorant.  It happens. 

Why use a lawyerly parsing of his words to change his (obvious, in my opinion) intended meaning?

You're the one parsing his words.  I'm the one who took them at face value.  You're the one who thinks that ninety-nine percent "obviously" means nowhere near ninety-nine percent, but rather no number whatsoever & basically just a charge towards bad doctors & teachers.  Okay.

but it's also not a hanging offense.

One more, and hopefully the last time: I'm not calling on anyone to do anything about Savage.  I disagree with what he said, period.  The Obama-esque attempts at excusing his "inartful rhetoric" aside (and attempts at besmirching my approach as "emotional" and going for a "hanging offense"...I'm not St. Andy), it was patently stupid to assert that large a segment as being misdiagnosed.  You & I probably agree 99.5% of the time on various issues (mediamatters being a bunch of liars at the forefront) & we just see this through different lenses, that's all. 

85

My point is this:

You really think he meant 99% literally? Honestly? You think so?

And do you think he ever intended, meant, to include kids who can't speak at age 12 or such in the group of 'fakers'?

I don't like the guy either..nor do I like Barrack Obama. But as much as I dislike Barry, when the guy says he's been to 57 states we say 'oh, he mispoke'. No one's running around claiming he's unfit to be president because he literally actually thinks there are 57+ states in the union, just because that's actually what he said - face value.

No one is saying "Oh, Obama is crazy", because at face value, he seems to have said "I see dead people" at a memorial day speech. But no one REALLY thinks Obama is hallucinating dead people.

86 You really think he meant 99% literally? Honestly? You think so?

All I had to go on was his own wording.  His reply on his website didn't pass the smell test.  Did he revise it downward?  To me - and my opinion is worth what you paid - saying that number means something akin to what I meant when I stated that you & I probably agreed 99.5% of the time, which is "just about every time".  If you mean 'most' you don't say 99%.  If you mean many you certainly don't say 99%. 

To me, again, just me, that tells me that he thinks just about every diagnosis of autism is incorrect and was done so for nefarious reasons.

If someone said that they agreed with John McCain 99% of the time, I'd question their conservative credentials, even though McCain has gone conservative the majority of the time.

No one is saying "Oh, Obama is crazy",...

If Obama is the benchmark, then we're all due to get a free pass on everything under the sun. 

87

Mike Savage makes his living by saying outragous things. Most of the time I dont care what his rant is but this issue strikes close to home. I am the parent of 6 children, one of whom is a delightful 4 year old boy that has autism. If I was a bad parent ( Mike said that autism is a fraud, and the kids just need better parenting) wouldnt ALL of my kids be autistic? The fact of the matter is Mike Savage shot his mouth off and he was WRONG. His rebuttle did little to salvage his position, he is still wrong.

As the parent of an autistic child I thought his comments were offensive, but this is America folks, and as a citizen he has the right to say any damn thing he wants. And so do I. I decided to have a little fun with this. I have an aerial advertising company in Reno, NV and I put a sign together that said "MY SON HAS AUTISM  MIKE SAVAGE IS AN IDIOT" and towed it behind my airplane over the radio station that carries his show here in town. The story was picked up by the NBC station in town and the story was included in 4 newscasts. Autism was on the minds of a lot of people in my town because of that.

All in all this flap has generated an elevated awareness for autism, and at the end of the day thats a good thing.

88 I would'nt agree with the 99% thing, but my brother has been faking that he's autistic for years now. And he is a little bastard. We.ve tried to make him stop but he's a narcissistic little fucker who dosn't care what happens to everyone else as long as he gets something out of it.

89 I have four children - each has a diagnosis under the autism spectrum - from mild to severe. They were diagnosed at The Waisman Center where they were each given very thorough multi-diciplinary team evaluations prior to their individual diagnosis. My youngest son is completely non-verbal and self-abusive on a daily basis. I welcome and furthermore would LOVE to see Mr. Savage spend one evening with my son and see how he can straighten him out by telling him to knock it off! lol My son would send him kicking and screaming out of here - with an entirely different perspective on autism! still lol at the thought! My son doesn't take any meds but I'll bet my dollar to your two that Mr. Savage would claim he is one of the kids that should be on meds before the evening was over! What an ignorant, uneducated, uninformed, narrow-minded, ass! If you know nothing about the subject you should not be making comments - period!     

90

I was diagnosed with add/adhd and was perscribed adderal. However, I  only took the medicine for 6 months. It is a scam, all I had to do was wake up and start paying attention. I knew a few kids who were perscribed this as well and they sold their medicine to other students.(the drug is an amphetamine similar to meth)  It is just another drug for us to go to a doctor and pretend something is wrong.. TOUGHEN UP....... 

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