1 Taney's Revenge.

2 Oh great, so they can lawyer up and we end up conducting the GWOT through the courts instead of the gun-camera of a Reaper drone.

3 So in otherwords, the military will have to ensure that combatants on the battlefield stays dead aka another 30,000 dollar hellfire bomb.

4 Or even better, keep them at Diego Garcia rather than Guantanamo.  It's British territory, not US.

5

I wonder what part of "unlawful" they don't get...  It's not that they've broken the law - they're outside the law.

I guess "unlawful combatants" should just be summarily executed on the battlefield like they were in WWII?

Sowing the seeds of our own demise...

6

I think we should of stuck with that pot smoker, Ginsburg; clearly Kennedy is doing something much stronger. This is the death sentence for America; as we knew it. Reversing two hundred years of military tribunal policy; at this point they would have freed Benedict Arnold, on free speech rights, given the Quirin saboteurs, another chance to bomb the Jersey shore; we want to make it perfectly fair for them to kill as many Americans as necessary

7 I agree with some of the other posters. No more prisoners. No more fooling around. Kill em all. It's not worth the life of another American soldier if we are not trying to win 100%.

8 Fuck it.  The bad guys deserve to win, we aren't a nation.

9 Well that sort of eliminates a lot of future enemy combatants. It'll be easier to let them fertilize the battlefield, than to deal with paying lawyer fees. This may be a good ruling, after all.

10

Gah! 

This is getting very depressing.  By "This" I mean the state of freedom in the West.

I think I am begining to understand the motivation for the early US settlers to risk the trip to the new world just to escape their failing social & poltical system.

Pity we are so far away from opening our solar system for settlement.

11

I see a passel of you morons beat me to it. The rationale for prioritizing taking prisoners over killing every bad guy on the battlefield is what was really dealt a crushing blow here.

Hopefully we'll make an immediate change in the ROE.

12

If the detainees have access to U.S. courts, there's no reason to close the base and transfer them to the mainland U.S.

The arguement can be made that there's no reason to keep Gitmo open either. 

13

   Had the US treated these unlawful combatants in accordance with the GC, this sick travesty wouldn't have unfolded.  But because we are a moral, decent people, we erroneously gave them rights and privileges they didn't deserve in ANY manner.

    It sickens me to see our enemies use the very strengths of our nation as a means of defeating us.

14

Maybe it really is a suicide pact? Let's ask good old Thom, he usually has a good quote for any occasion (not as good as Ben Franklin's quotes, but usually pretty good).

 You ask a very important question ...snip...the constitutionality of the Louisiana Purchase...snip...I have often thought that a strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of highest obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means.

Stuff Jefferson Really Said (3rd edition).

 

15 Justice Kennedy, eh?

Yeah sorry about that. I tried with Bork and Ginsburg (Douglas, not Ruth) but I had to do something after that.

As I said, sorry about that one.

16 Shouldn't that be "No reason NOT to close the base"?

The only reason to put 'em in 'almost Cuba' was to prevent habeus corpus which they would have in the US. Now that they have that, they might as well be in Charleston where food is cheaper and MPs abound.
Apparently the non-US intelligentsia also has a problem with prisoners being held on a military colony. I think this ruling will accelaratet he end of Guantanamo's use as an acknowledged prison.
I wonder if that means the USN will be activating a cruise ship for terror suspects. Underway replenshiment, no territorrial issues. USNS Kitty Hawk? CV(Luxury Liner) is there a Navy ship code for ocean going prison barge?

17 Fine, let's just ship them all to Iraq. Would Bush have the cojones to do that?

18 The arguement can be made that there's no reason to keep Gitmo open either.
I'd argue there's no reason to provide them transport off the island at the expense of the state.

19 Hmmmmm.

Well that's fucking interesting.

Now I hope Obama wins in November so he'll be President and have to deal with this bullshit.

So let me get this fucking straight.  A POW can now use the fucking courts?  Could a POW file a civil lawsuit against the detention facility because his corn on the cob was served too cold?

Nuisance lawsuits?  Yes we damn well can!

joy.

20

Good Great idea leoncaruthers.

"Hey Mr. Terrorist, you're free to go. We'll just let you out of the wire and you can head that way (points toward Havana) for free medical care, high literacy and murderous, commie thugs. Enjoy."

Sort of a reverse Mariel Boatlift where Castro sent us so many criminals (the point of Scarface).

Man, that's just beautiful on so many levels.

 

 

21 It would seem that all we have left to hope for in the war against Islamo-fascism appears to be the successful growth of a free Iraq that breeds change in the Islamic world.

Well, that and the enlightened prospect of giving them everything they demand so that they will magically become tolerant of our culture.

Talk about putting all one's eggs in one basket.

What this&that said:

Pity we are so far away from opening our solar system for settlement.

22

Zombie Reagan at June 12, 2008 11:09 AM (hlYel)

Yeah, you gave us OConnor too.  And you 'conservatives'  think Bush is the devil because he had a mere nominee not up to your standards.  

23 Wow, what a shitty thursday. All before lunch! Thanks Supreme Coutrt! (ya bunch of tards)

24

So the best way to fight terrorists now is not to join the Army or Marines. Instead you need to have about five thousand guys renounce their American citizenship and start up an American version of the PLO, getting secret funding from wherever they can, and kill terrorists wherever they find 'em. A sort of pro-American A-Team. Who wants to illustrate the comic book?

25 Do you think John McCain could have grabbed a lawyer and filed a lawsuit against his captors?

Don't think so.

26

More and more we are seeing a notable dynamic at work. Namely, on September 12, 2001, President Bush essentially made a vow that this would NEVER happen on his watch again.

And of course, the problem is that he suceeded. So now, being Americans, American Idol and Britney Spears are more important to us than what happened on 9/11. (consider that many kids becoming teenagers this next year have no memories or just fragmented memories of the event at all.)

It is that success that allows us to even HAVE these conversations at all.  Let's see, 6,000 dead in the streets of.... Los Angeles say.... next year? Gosh, ya think ANYONE will give two sh#ts about those poor "innocents" at Gitmo, and about poor Haddad being wiretapped when he calls his brother in Yemen? Think anyone will care? Not likely.

Just as an aside, if such a thing should happen (and I pray it does not), remember, the fact that Bush headed the government on 9/11/01 is proof that he had a hand in it, or at best knew about it and let it happen.  The fact that it happened in 2009 when Democrats headed the governement will be proof that evil Republicans were behind it, not those innocent jihadis which are the human equivalent of grizzly bears, possibly dangerous, but just an oh-so-intriguing part of earth's flora and fauna doing what it is they do.... (and yet another one being viciously hurt by evil Republicans.)

You watch.

 

 

 

27 Leon over at Redstate asks President Bush to defy the Court, on the Constitutional grounds that they are usurping their authority.  As Andrew Jackson said, "They have written their opinion. Now let them enforce it."

28 No, a disconnect.

We Conservatives think that no quarter should be given when seating a justice to the Supreme Court. Bush isn't the devil. He was simply wrong with Miers.

You seem to be of the opinion that we need to take the best we can get, and hope it works out.

How's that working for you today?

29 If I recall correctly, in Hamdi Scalia actually sided with giving a U.S. citizen access to the courts because there had been no suspension of Habeas Corpus.

I'll have to read the opinion myself later tonight, but I wonder if Kennedy cited Scalia's argument (or what I vaguely recall of it... or perhaps misremember entirely...) in this one when making his call.

In any case, this is a decision we will regret in the decades to come.

30 I want to f*ck Mika Brzezinski. I can't take it anymore.

31 One can only imagine Justice Robert Bork.  What a waste.  What a waste.

32 Mika? Not so much.

33

I'm gonna' look at the bright side, 'cause I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to law...But, I do know right from wrong...And, I'm pretty confident that most Americans do, also.

Therefore,

Running them through our Justice System may be their worst nightmare...Hopefully.

Besides,

Do we really want to hold these pricks indefinitly, with all their perks?...On our dime?

 

34 So is Justice Kennedy being paid by the McCain campaign?  He's really solidifying the GOP conservative base.

35 If I recall correctly, in Hamdi Scalia actually sided with giving a U.S. citizen access to the courts because there had been no suspension of Habeas Corpus.

I doubt that this would apply and if Kennedy ever had the gonads to cite it, Scalia would probably write dissent him a new one for trying it.  Most of these guys are citizens of other countries, captured on a foreign battlefield and brought to Gitmo.  There is no expectation of Habeas.  They aren't even EPWs (enemy POWs) because they don't wear a uniform, but that's a technical point that is beyond liberals' understanding.  They are too into the whole Noble Savage thing.

In fact, we'd like to send a lot of these cretins to their home countries.  Unfortunately, we have laws against sending combatants to countries that do practice genuine torture.

Of course, I'm no lawyer.  Apparently, my IQ is too high.

36 But not my attention span: "write dissent"="dissent"

37 Go ahead and don't vote for Mav. It'll ALWAYS be 5-4 then.

38 Posted by: AmishDude at June 12, 2008 11:48 AM (T0NGe)

No joke.  This a gift for JMac.

39

OT...  but there were no Obama threads to post this on today:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

Here's a copy of Obama's birth certificate.  I know that someone wrote a blog post about it the other day.  People, I guess, are really anxious to see it.  So here it is.  I guess that Daily Kos got a copy of it.

40

David Motari, the marine in the puppy throwing vid, was apparently convicted in the case. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080612/D918ACR00.html

41

@captkidney - Really? I had actually thought that the video was a fake. I didn't know that those guys tossed a real puppy off a cliff.

No, I'm not kidding. I still think it looks like a fake.

42 Let's release the detainees to the custody of the likes of Markos Moulitsas, George Soros, Medea Benjamin, Barack Obama, Ted Kennedy, John McCain, etc., and if anything bad happens as a result, we hold them personally accountable.

43

The courts are just going to make it up as they go, using the limited guidance of Justice Kennedy in today's decision.

 

Grab your ankles and kiss your arse goodbye!

44 Here's a copy of Obama's birth certificate.

I know.  People are so nosy.  If I didn't know better, I'd think Barack Hussein Obama II were running for president or something.

Getting this stupid thing was like pulling teeth, are we ever going to get Smokey McSmoker's full medical records?

45

I'm not sure it's a gift for McCain--it steals some of his fire. Gitmo might've served as a ready-made prop/transition point for his POW narrative; now that it's a non-issue, he's lost a springboard for that story. Claiming the moral high ground is easier when you've got recent AP photos to make the point.

Unrelated: First Obama sign on our street this morning on the way to work. Sprouted up like an ugly little plastic flower. I expect to be living in a meadow of them by summer's end. It's not probable, but very possible, that McCain could lose Virginia.

46

No, I agree there is something important to it.  I just don't imagine that someone would lie about their name when all that stuff is part of the public record.  And, I don't know why a name like Muhammad is any different then Hussein. 

I mean if I was going to invent a good name for a president...  I'd call myself Captain Fuckin America rather than Barack Hussein Obama.

47 To parrot Mark Steyn, Western civilization is giving the impression that it's dying to surrender to someone, anyone. The Islamic jihadists think, "Hey, why not us?"

48

Potosi Joel's comment is awesome: 

"I wonder if that means the USN will be activating a cruise ship for terror suspects. Underway replenshiment, no territorrial issues. USNS Kitty Hawk? CV(Luxury Liner) is there a Navy ship code for ocean going prison barge?"

Better vessel than that?  SSN23.  The USS Jimmy Carter. (I know is's a Nuclear Sub, but the fact that it's a sub makes it soooo delicious.)  Let the wailing begin when they go under the shrinking icecaps for 6 months at a time. 

If Bush had Cheney's Balls, he'd do it.  Carter is Worst president ever, and deserves this distinction.

 

49 Here's a copy of Obama's birth certificate.

If that's supposed to be his birth certificate, I call bullshit.  That looks like a photoshop.

Zoom in on it. Look at the clarity of the letters.  It's not a scanned document, I'll bet  my eye teeth.

50 FYI: High contrast, fine lines often leave mottling in the background on a digital images.  It depends on the compression on the jpg, etc.  It might be a photoshop, but it is most likely just the way that the image was saved.

51 Stinky, I think it's reprinted (I've requested a copy of my BC before and they reprint them).  I don't think it's a photoshop unless they got a blank certificate form.  The watermark is present in the "white space" of the letters and there doesn't seem to be evidence of deleting text.

If it's genuine, it's obviously a reprint.  There's a legal disclaimer in the lower left with the date (11/01).  The backward JUN 6, 2007 indicates that somebody had this thing for a year.

52 Plus the pixellated crap around the seal is consistent with what you see around the letters, both in the name and in the rest of the doc.

53 I'm aware of that, oops.  My question is that there is relatively little mottling of the letters themselves.

And, by what shows at the bottom, it is marked as a laser print, certainly not an original document, which would make a forgery that much easier without either the physical document for review or corroborating materials.

I don't put much faith in something when the only source is Kos.

54 Between this and the utter abdication of free speech by the Western world (I'm looking at you Canada) and whatnot, I'm ready to give up.  What the hell, I never wanted to be 90 anyway.  Bring the wall on, baby.

55

Clearly, as the Court is presently constituted, there is and there can only be one solution that should satisfy everybody concerned. 

No prisoners.

56 Jesus.

57

Sure, sure, stinky.  It could be fake.  Just don't bet your eye teeth on it.  That's all.  You can use them.

Sorry to drift off topic. 

58

Puh-leeze. That Obama birth certificate is clearly fake.

The Kos leftards didn't even get the basic demographic information correct. Everybody knows the mother's name is Mary, the father's Joseph and the place of birth is Bethlehem.

59 We only have these unlawful combatants because we were dealing with the in Afghanistan when they didn't have any government.

Now we will simply have the Afghanis take care of them, and we just visit for interrogations.

Make sure to include this in the SOFA's we sign so we can claim its a sovereignty issue, sorry, we can't help you there, SCOTUS doesn't have any power, etc.

60

The Scalia separate concurrance is really the one to read.  It flat out says that the majority will cost American lives.

61 Aurvant, I thought it a fake too.

62

Article is carefully worded and does not say that the pup was alive. Maybe still a fake but the Marine Corps decided it didn't like the judgement of marines who would post such a thing on the web?

63 Thanks to today's decision, the Guantanamo Bay detainees have more rights than aliens with no connection to the U.S., but it's not clear whether they have as many rights as invited aliens.

My God, they're living in the shadows! Give them amnesty, quick!

64 Since when has the majority given a shit about American lives?

65 Why don't we just send them to ANWR to feed the fucking caribou? That way, we can have all our sacred, untouchable cows in one area.

66

Funny,

That, the certificate only has information relevent to current questions, isn't it.

I just pulled out my own birth certificate...It has no less than 32 pieces of information, including the signature of the Attending Physician or Midwife, attesting to the birth, and the name of the Hospital.

It even has information about my mother's and father's employment.

I call "Bull-Shit"

67 Caribou?  The MOSQUITOES will SUCK all of their BLOOD out in less than 48 HOURS...

68 Hmmmm.

My answer to the Supreme Court if I were President?

Have someone cap each detainee in the back of the head.

Give a full Presidential Pardon to the man with the pistol.

69 Hmmm.

Oh FUCK!  I didn't think of this:

"I’m reminded of what one DHS source pointed out to me when the high court ruled in favor of habeas corpus rights four years ago: “Hmm, now that the Gitmo detainees are entitled to habeas challenges and hearings by American courts and American judges, I wonder how long before they and their lawyers claim that they are entitled to asylum hearings as well?”"

From MichelleMalkin.com

With asylum they'd also be eligible for federal and state welfare programs **AND** the ability to bring their fucking friends and families to the USA.

Fuck it.  I'm going to drink some beer and forget today ever happened.

70

Justice Scalia's dissenting opinion is 'dead' on.  This changes very little and will be tied up in lower courts for some time to come.  But, the NUTROOTS will claim victory and the MSM will trumpet said victory.  Oh well........

71

Frank @ #66 just made my point for me.   I also just pulled out copies of my children's and mine and my husband's birth certs.  

The Obama/Kos document is similar to a "certification of vital record" that is frequently issued when people request a copy of their birth cert. for various purposes.  Commonly referred to as an "extract", i.e. only containing that information thought pertinent to the request.  This is not a copy (aka photocopy) of the original vital records fact sheet but an iteration of just the information that people normally need/want when requesting a copy for identification purposes.

As an example, I have a certified (photocopy) of my son's "original record of live birth" which was filled out at the hospital, has much more information about the birth, about parents, and most definitely has the name and signature of the attending doctor, plus the name and signature of both parents.  I contend that all "original" records of live birth (vital records fact sheet) are filled out at the time of birth on standard multipart forms with multiple signatures.

I also have a "certification of vital record" for the same son which looks very much like the Obama/Kos document but with some major differences.   My son's "certification" says at the bottom:  "I certify that this is a true, full and correct COPYof the THE ORIGINAL CERTIFICATE ON FILE  or the VITAL RECORD FACTS ON FILE in the vital records unit of the Oregon Center for Health Statistics.   (emphasis mine).

And then there is a date of issue of the "copy of the original" and the SIGNATURE OF THE STATE REGISTRAR.   Plus the language "this copy is not valid without intaglio state seal and border."

All this is missing from the Obama/Kos document.  No signature of state registrar.  No date of issue of the document.  No "not valid without intaglio" language.  

The intaglio state seal is exactly like embossing (as in a notary's seal) over the ink image of a state seal.  It always completely distorts the ink image over which it is embossed.  I don't think we're looking at such an animal on the Obama/Kos document.

Too much information missing.   If this is an actual "certification of vital record" then there must also exist the underlying original vital records facts form which was filled out by hospital workers with signature of doctor and parents.

So I agree with Frank, and I second the call as BS.

72

I hope when they transfer these scum to military stockades in the US they get the same perks as your standard issue military prisoner--that being, one hell of a lot less than what most state and even federal prisoners get.

But no, they'll probably build these fuckers separate wings with prayer rooms and halal kitchens and christ knows what all.

This whole situation is beyond belief, and if the McCain supporters think electing him is going to have the slightest effect on the sleighride to hell the USA is on (of which this is just one self-destructive issue), you are psychopathically deluded. 

73

Okay, I can't help myself.

Take a closer look at an enlarged image of the Obama/Kos document.   Look specifically at the corners of the border design.   At each corner there are dark lines that bisect the border design making it look as though the borders were created by laying a long strip of paper across each edge but they overlapped a little bit and, when copied, the overlap created a dark line that stands out from the border design.

Also our sons' official birth records contain microscopic writing within the border design that says "American Bank Note Company".  I do believe the name of the printer is standard on all paper produced through intaglio printing for use in official documents.   The Obama/Kos document has nothing to indicate the printer. 

Just a couple more anomolies to consider. 

74

#19 Memo

Be careful what you wish for...

Do you really want Obama and crew with their hands in the selection of two or three Supremes with whom we will have to contend for another 20 or 30 years?

I know I don't.

75

@74

At this point, isn't it just Hobson's choice?  Hopebamessiah kills us quickly, McCain lets us die slowly.

 

Whee!

76

So, over two centuries of US Supreme courts have been wrong and this one is right.  We must have some REALLY brilliant legal minds on this particular court.  Unless they are saying that combatants taken out of uniform have MORE rights than lawful combatants then we can expect to have to provide a hearing for every single prisoner our military takes from now on.  That being impossible the Supreme Court has just ruled the.... END OF WAR IN OUR TIME!!!

Don't you see the true brilliance of this ruling!  No one will ever have to die in a war again!  Oh we might get a few heads sawed off by our new masters but really, isn't that a small price to pay for peace in our time?

A couple of other remarks;

1:  It is truly fitting that Obama or McCain and a Democratic congress will be left to clean up this mess.  They begged for it and now they have it.

2:  It will be hysterical watching the courts try to establish rules of evidence and procedures.  Each court will decide differently and ultimately the Supreme Court will be left to create its own military tribunals out of whole cloth.  Will they get to face their accusers?  What standards constitute legal detention vs. illegal detention?  What will the rules of evidence be?  If the IED doesn't fit you must acquit!  Oh the endless fun judges will have creating an entirely new branch of jurisprudence, the millions of dollars and man hours that will be spent on LAWYERS at public expense while US citizens see their cases languish. 

Frankly, I have had about enough of the Supreme Court's bullshit.  I say we replace them with something more rational, like a magic eightball and be done with it.  Can't we at least let the American people vote one of them off the island every year?  Those fuckers live forever just like all of those penny ante dictators who relish abusing their power so much that they refuse to die... at least until they have built enough monuments to themselves.

77 How about we return the terrorists to their country of origin from an altitude of say, 30,000 feet?

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