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Carter Gives Away Israel's Nuclear Secrets

Yesterday President Carter announced that Israel has 150 nuclear weapons. Israel has never publicly acknowledged its nuclear capabilities--including whether it even has nuclear weapons--but the former president, who has a fetish for screwing over Israel, can probably be considered a reliable source. Let's pray, for our sakes and for the sake of our allies, he knows no other national secrets.

Gateway Pundit writes, "Either Jimmy Carter is really, really stupid or he really, really hates Israel." The answer is, of course, BOTH. Carter went on to suggest that the U.S. should be providing Iran with fuel for nuclear reactors:

Speaking at the Hay Festival yesterday, Carter also suggested the US should provide nuclear power technology and fuel to Iran as a show of goodwill.

"What happens if, in three years' time, Iran has a nuclear weapon," Carter asked. "I'm not sure that is going to happen, but if it does, what do we do? They are rational people like all of us in this room. Do they want to commit suicide? I would guess not. So what we have to do is talk with them now and say to them we want to be their friends," the former US president said.

"The United States must let Iran know that we want to give them fuel and everything they need for a non-military nuclear program. Twenty-five years ago we cut off trading with Iran. We've got to resume trading to show Iran we are friends."

Except that we're not friends, President Foolish. Iran wants to stymie our foreign policy, kill our troops, and devastate our allies. Its leaders and a great majority of its populace enjoy a good stoning of a woman or a good hanging of a gay. And they like to dream about a certain genocide in particular that places them in the same company as the Slime of Humanity.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 02:12 PM



Comments

1
The Iranians have already refused free nuclear fuel as a swap for their bomb making components.

Maybe friendship is more important to them than fuel?

Posted by: Potosi Joel at May 26, 2008 02:19 PM (TPRbZ)

2 I wish Jimmy Carter would just shut the Hell up and go back to lusting in his heart and peanut farming. 

Posted by: crankyprof at May 26, 2008 02:21 PM (mlPw2)

3 Something not right about stoned women and hung gays.

Posted by: JavaJoe at May 26, 2008 02:22 PM (Am6n/)

4 I'm pretty sure if we could just convince Jimmy Carter to dress up in a purple dinosaur costume and start singing to Ahmadinnerjacket, all our problems will just melt away.

At least, I'd be willing to pay to see that.

Posted by: krakatoa at May 26, 2008 02:23 PM (zgY5e)

5 I think you've got that World's Biggest Douche award wrapped up for another year, Jimmah. Now would you please shut your cakehole!

Posted by: Andy at May 26, 2008 02:23 PM (23Gys)

6 "...They are rational people like all of us in this room."

Excepting of course the freaking jackass making the statement.

What the feck is this stupit prick doing? It's not enough we have to be cleaning up the shitstorm he started 32 years ago in the middle east, now he has to double down and make it worse? Gag that halfwit delusional bastard NOW!

I am now quite certain that were I to ever receive a nobel prize I'd trade it for a bag of stale donuts.

Posted by: strangely pertinent reflected radio transmission from 4 or so years ago... at May 26, 2008 02:25 PM (mNUjn)

7 You know, there's no point in anyone calling attention to Carter's douchebaggery.  No one except two people: George Bush and John McCain.  Either one (or both) of them will do.  Otherwise, we're just getting ourselves worked up for no good reason.

Go ahead boys, tell the world you think this guy is an enemy of his country, watch your national approval ratings go up by double figures overnight.   Or play nice, and see what that gets you.

Posted by: Chester the Moleskinner at May 26, 2008 02:25 PM (sKauv)

8 The United States must let Iran know that we want to give them fuel and everything they need for a non-military nuclear program.

Jimmy Carter is a fucking genius. I mean give them nuclear fuel to get them to stop enriching uranium? How the fuck did we miss that idea?

Oh wait. We didn't We tried in 2005 and they told us to fuck off.

Can we put Jimmy in jail now? Please?

Posted by: DrewM. at May 26, 2008 02:28 PM (hlYel)

9 Problem with Jimmy is that part of his behavior is due to his need for attention, so I am afraid he will just keep escalating his treachery. He'll be 84 in October and I'm not going to pretend I can't wait for him to "move on."'

Posted by: GRC at May 26, 2008 02:29 PM (b4R3L)

10 heh. Damn, Chester. I just actually laughed out loud at the ridiculous prospect of Republican Politicians actually growing a set.

Posted by: krakatoa at May 26, 2008 02:29 PM (zgY5e)

11 Jimmy needs to give me 1 million to show that we are friends.

Good will gesture and all....

...or I'll have to get the rabbit again.

Posted by: JavaJoe at May 26, 2008 02:30 PM (Am6n/)

12 Only 150? Damn! I thought they had twice that. That's not even a boomer's worth.

Posted by: lmg at May 26, 2008 02:30 PM (hEMOH)

13 Drats...link didn't work....foiled again.

Posted by: JavaJoe at May 26, 2008 02:30 PM (Am6n/)

14

I can't wait to see what the history books have to say about a former head of state who hates his country so much... or what the books say about leaders who were afraid to call him to account for such stupidity.

tmi3rd

Posted by: tmi3rd at May 26, 2008 02:34 PM (WG2sq)

15 rabbit.....(one more time)

Posted by: JavaJoe at May 26, 2008 02:34 PM (Am6n/)

16 Deliver us from the policies and follies of Democrats, to the limited extent that one can tell the difference.

Posted by: sherlock at May 26, 2008 02:35 PM (buv7s)

17 Jimma   never fails to amaze. Such a sad ,pathetic soul. Of course, when youre known as the "Father of Modern Terrorism", what else needs to be said?

Posted by: Rick554 at May 26, 2008 02:35 PM (XWJh5)

18 That was about a much a "secret" as Liberace being gay was.

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 02:38 PM (kEbop)

19 Crazy and dangerous. Not Iran, Carter. He needs to be committed.

Posted by: joe at May 26, 2008 02:39 PM (YcIuv)

20 Liberace was gay??

But...  I mean, the ladies loved him! /Austin Powers

Posted by: krakatoa at May 26, 2008 02:41 PM (zgY5e)

21 He believes he can be Iran's friend. After all, they share some common goals

Posted by: Frank G at May 26, 2008 02:41 PM (Ydps9)

22 He's probably wrong. This is what Mordechai Vanunu was saying 22 years ago. Old news.

Posted by: Pablo at May 26, 2008 02:56 PM (yTndK)

23 Hey, if you were getting paid as much as I was to be a traitor, and bad mouth my country, well, let's just say, call me Tehran Rose.

Or Cuba Carnation.

Or the UN Onion.

Or..........etc.....etc.....etc.......

Posted by: Jimmuh Cartier at May 26, 2008 03:01 PM (S4WzI)

24 Icus,

That secret belonged to Israel.  Carter had no right to say it.  In fact, as a former President of the United States, he had a duty to keep his mouth shut.

But, that duty, like common decency, is a stranger to that man.  Jimmy Carter has never met anyone or anything more important than himself.


Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 03:02 PM (WWkFI)

25 We should offer Jimmy Carter a deal - first, he has to negotiate to get our embassy back.

Once he's successful at that, we'll deal with the whole nuclear weapons thing.

Posted by: AD at May 26, 2008 03:04 PM (vYzH/)

26

Well, gee--JIMMAH WAS THE ONE THAT PUT THE TRADE EMBARGO IN PLACE.

Why didn't he show them that we wanted to be friends when he had the chance?  Oh, I forgot...the mullahs and their lackies are a bunch of fucking terrorists.  He must have forgotten, too.  What the fuck color of psychadelic paisley is the sky in the Carter universe?

There are very few individuals that can make apopletic, but this old fucktard is number one for a kajillion weeks running.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 26, 2008 03:06 PM (aU+pI)

27 Something not right about stoned women and hung gays.

It's a hell of a lot better than stoned gays and hung women.  Trust me.

Posted by: Ronaldo at May 26, 2008 03:08 PM (vxGjP)

28 BTW, I'd quibble over whether it's a great majority there that fall into the nutso-Islamic category (if you want to point to Ahmadinejad, the Mullahs get to pick who can run for office and who can't).

Still, the fanatics are the ones in charge and the ones with all the guns.

Posted by: AD at May 26, 2008 03:09 PM (vYzH/)

29 Vice the 150 nukes thingie...hmmm... the Peanut Farmer has been out of the loop (strategic intelligence wise) for how long now? Anyone care to guess how many warheads the IDF has *now*? I'll bet Mr. Mallaise is somewhat behind on the count...

Posted by: Neffi at May 26, 2008 03:12 PM (3gnrK)

30

Neffi,

If you think that Dhimmi Carter is out of the loop, you've missed the memo . Dhimmi Carter has friends in high and low places who are more than happy to provide him with 'intelligence' that can be used for propaganda purposes.

Posted by: Hank Rearden at May 26, 2008 03:17 PM (05Cdx)

31 Prolly true, Hank- but I meant *real* intelligence pertaining to Israeli weapons stocks, rather than the agitprop he may well be receiving from various sources inimical to our interests. Mind you, the thought of *only*150 nukes in the hands (and under the button-finger) of the people you've sworn to wipe from the face of the Earth should cause even the maddest mullah to re-think his desire to confront Eternity....   Inshallah, eh? Heh

Posted by: Neffi at May 26, 2008 03:31 PM (3gnrK)

32

Dear God. Jimmy is really, really old and has lived a long ...enough ...life. Think about it. For teh children.

...that man has already insured his place in history as the nation's worst president to date. His policies and actions are inarguably the single and primary cause of the current GWOT. He is a despicable anti-Semite.

And evil.

Posted by: davis,br at May 26, 2008 03:33 PM (7QgFP)

33 Jimmy Carter is a good argument for Obama not winning the presidency. They just never go away even after they aren't president any more. They just are there and given respect, earned or not, forever.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2008 03:44 PM (7QZfU)

34 Rational like Jimmy Carter.  Nuke them now.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at May 26, 2008 03:46 PM (l3IrE)

35 Davis, BR -- Have you ever read the motto on the Carter family hubcap crest?


"Making President Andrew Johnson Look Good Since 1976"

Posted by: richard mcenroe at May 26, 2008 03:48 PM (l3IrE)

36 ...besides which- from the *deterrent* point of view- there's no point in having nuke goodies if your enemies don't know you have them. JC having spilled the beans re the Israeli nuke arsenal may well have been just what Tel Aviv wanted; certainly Mossad is clever enough to make use of the old fart, eh?

Posted by: Neffi at May 26, 2008 03:51 PM (3gnrK)

37 If Mossad wanted to settle this, I'd personally get out of the way.  Just saying.

Posted by: Stinky Esposito at May 26, 2008 03:52 PM (/Mm5u)

38 That secret belonged to Israel.  Carter had no right to say it.  In fact, as a former President of the United States, he had a duty to keep his mouth shut.

I had a good laugh over that one.  Since when do Americans have any duty to obey secrecy laws of other countries?  After all, Israel has no compunction against recruiting US citizens like Pollard to spy on their own country and break our secrecy laws.

Anyways, didn't Olmert admit Israel has nukes a while back? 

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 03:52 PM (kEbop)

39 35: richard - Heh.

Posted by: davis,br at May 26, 2008 03:55 PM (7QgFP)

40

Greetings,

Carter was the worst president we ever have had, and now is the worst ex president we have had. He just keeps adding to his "honors." I wonder how much longer we will have this worthless thing embarassing us.

Posted by: richard at May 26, 2008 04:03 PM (8nB5X)

41

Carter's days away from announcing that Mossad actually took over our embassy in 1979, just to make those Muslim sweeties look bad.

You know he's stupid enough to say it.

Posted by: Ted K. at May 26, 2008 04:06 PM (+CKFF)

42 Icus,

Spying is one thing, blabbing is another. 


Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 04:08 PM (WWkFI)

43 Oh yeah, not only did Olmert admit Israel has nukes two years ago, but Robert Gates also testified to that effect before Congress.  So you can all calm down about Carter's revealing this great "secret."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/migrationtemp/1536692/Olmert-admits-Israel-has-nuclear-weapons.html


Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 04:12 PM (kEbop)

44 Holy crap. I am truly astonished.

Posted by: qrstuv at May 26, 2008 04:12 PM (GemZi)

45

38:  Icus:  So, you think Jimmy Carter should reveal the defenses of all our allies?  My understanding is that former presidents keep getting limited security briefings to accomodate their "ambassador at large" role, so he could do it.

Jimmy is doing precisely that.  He has damaged information sharing between us and our allies... and the bad guys will benefit from that.  It seems that Jimmy has switched sides.

Posted by: Consanescerion at May 26, 2008 04:18 PM (peZcR)

46

Wow. Pre-emptive surrender to nuclear blackmail:

"Do they want to commit suicide? I would guess not. So what we have to do is talk with them now and say to them we want to be their friends."

 

Posted by: Alec at May 26, 2008 04:21 PM (z6jSz)

47 Icus:  So, you think Jimmy Carter should reveal the defenses of all our allies?

See my comment #43 above.  Israel having nukes is a lot less of a secret than, say, Valerie Plame's employment with the CIA was until Scooter and Novak and the rest blew it.

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 04:23 PM (kEbop)

48 icus,

Olmert has that right.  Carter does not.

Plus, Carter gave a number, not just the fact that Israel has nukes.


Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 04:25 PM (WWkFI)

49 Valerie Plame's employment with the CIA was until Scooter and Novak and the rest blew it.

You mean 'Armitage.'


Posted by: Stinky Esposito at May 26, 2008 04:25 PM (qVPgY)

50 Nothing about being known as an employee of the CIA require you to quit, it just changes the kind of work you do, presuming you were some sort of NOC before that point.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2008 04:28 PM (7QZfU)

51 Oh, Lord. A Plame comparison.

What next, "selected not elected"?

 

Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 04:28 PM (WWkFI)

52

Icus:  So, should Jimmy Carter reveal the number and placement of US nukes?  How about the British?

I don't doubt that he'll do just that.  Just wait.

Posted by: Consanescerion at May 26, 2008 04:32 PM (peZcR)

53 You mean 'Armitage.'

Right, him too.

Olmert has that right.  Carter does not.

What, there is an exception to the First Amendment right of free speech for talking about Israeli nuclear capability?  

Anyways, the alliance between the USA and Israel is kind of one-sided: we do what they want, and they do what they want.  How many times have Bush and Rice asked them to stop expanding settlements on the West Bank?  And how many times since then have the settlements been expanded?

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 04:32 PM (kEbop)

54 It would seem to me someone in government should determine if this was classified information Carter was given and, if it is, that Carter should be charged for releasing it.

Releasing the nuclear capabilities of our allies is something which could reasonably be expected to damage U.S. security.

Posted by: Christoph at May 26, 2008 04:35 PM (hawOV)

55 Anyways, the alliance between the USA and Israel is kind of one-sided: we do what they want, and they do what they want.  How many times have Bush and Rice asked them to stop expanding settlements on the West Bank?  And how many times since then have the settlements been expanded?

Why shouldn't they? It's their country.

Posted by: Stinky Esposito at May 26, 2008 04:35 PM (qVPgY)

56 eman,

It seems like you agree with Ann Lewis (Barney Frank's sister), one of Clinton's supporters:

The role of the president of the United States is to support the decisions that are made by the people of Israel. It is not up to us to pick and choose from among the political parties.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/17/AR2008031702440_pf.html

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 04:39 PM (kEbop)

57 Anyways, the alliance between the USA and Israel is kind of one-sided: we do what they want, and they do what they want.

And you are left there helpless.

Posted by: tachyonshuggy at May 26, 2008 04:43 PM (JBuzy)

58 Why shouldn't they? It's their country.

Just as the USA and not Israel is ours.  Unfortunately, we are so closely identified with Israel that when they misbehave it is often us and our soldiers in the Middle East that pay the price.  Like when those Blackwater guys in Fallujah happened to drive into an enraged mob in Fallujah protesting after Israel killed Shaikh Yassin.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200404/s1079356.htm


Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 04:47 PM (kEbop)

59 It's amazing that icus thinks Carter has the right to say whatever he wants and criticizes those above who have the temerity to criticize Carter.

Pot... Kettle... Et cetera.

Where's Officer Paddy O'Irony when you need him?

Posted by: Nom de Blog at May 26, 2008 04:49 PM (5/uG4)

60 It's amazing that icus thinks Carter has the right to say whatever he wants and criticizes those above who have the temerity to criticize Carter.

You can say whatever you want, it's your right.  I'm just pointing out that if you think what Carter said was some kind of "secret" that he had no right to say you're pretty ignorant of the facts.  You don't seem to have a well-developed sense of the rights of Americans.

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 04:54 PM (kEbop)

61 What the heck, lets stop fucking around and just give Iran a couple dozen B61 crowd pleaser's and be done with it.  With Jimmy assuring us they'll be responsible with them, there will be no problem, right?

Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 26, 2008 04:55 PM (08Ul4)

62 It's not a question of 1st Amendment rights, it's about his responsibility to our allies as a former President. And Israel is more misbehaved against by neighbors than they misbehave themselves.

Posted by: joe at May 26, 2008 05:03 PM (YcIuv)

63 >>You can say whatever you want, it's your right. I'm just pointing out that if you think what Carter said was some kind of "secret" that he had no right to say you're pretty ignorant of the facts. You don't seem to have a well-developed sense of the rights of Americans.

Are you "special" or just an ordinary idiot? Cause if your diminished I won't point out the lunacy of your position. Come to think of it, if you're too stupid to understand why an ex-President should keep his keep his mouth shut regarding secret information he learned during his brief yet still far too long term then explaining it probably would be a waste of time.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2008 05:11 PM (t+mja)

64 And Israel is more misbehaved against by neighbors than they misbehave themselves.

I agree with you.  Israel has a right to defend itself.  But their own brand of proportional representation leaves every government hostage to the fanatics who want to settle the whole West Bank, which Israel can't do and survive as a Jewish or moral state.  It's time for them to make a serious proposal to draw boundaries and get out of the occupation business, instead of incrementally grabbing Arab land.

All of this bogus outrage against Carter for saying things which have already been said by Olmert and Gates and many others is just nitwit talk.

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 05:13 PM (kEbop)

65 It's time for them to make a serious proposal to draw boundaries...

I would say that qualifies as special idiocy, right there.

Posted by: B Moe at May 26, 2008 05:21 PM (9Uka3)

66 I thought we weren't supposed to concern ourselves with internal Israeli politics.

Posted by: joe at May 26, 2008 05:21 PM (YcIuv)

67 Come to think of it, if you're too stupid to understand why an ex-President should keep his keep his mouth shut regarding secret information he learned during his brief yet still far too long term then explaining it probably would be a waste of time.

If you think what Carter said was in any way "secret," you're the one who's "too stupid."  He has no obligation not to talk about things which are widely known and reported, like in this US Air War College paper on the subject from nine years ago:

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm


Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 05:27 PM (kEbop)

68 Ah, I see. You are an idiot.

Yes, comparing an educational paper that deals with assumptions and estimates versus an ex-President divulging information he was given, secret information, in order to advance his personal agenda, that makes perfect sense.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2008 05:31 PM (t+mja)

69

Just as the USA and not Israel is ours.  Unfortunately, we are so closely identified with Israel that when they misbehave it is often us and our soldiers in the Middle East that pay the price.  Like when those Blackwater guys in Fallujah happened to drive into an enraged mob in Fallujah protesting after Israel killed Shaikh Yassin.

By God, you're onto something here! If only those filthy Jews would just curl up and die those peace-loving peace warriors of peacefulness would all take up hobbies like gourmet cooking or topiary gardening. I mean it's not like if they hadn't been riled up by Yassin's death they would have let something else get their vaginas in a twist, like cartoons or non-exsistant flushed korans.

Really, we should let Indonesian christian schoolgirls in on the secret. Just stop supporting Israel and voila!-No more beheadings!

 

 

Posted by: nightwitch at May 26, 2008 05:34 PM (dfTf5)

70 Oh damn, I just stepped in some Icus. I wish the neighbors would clean up after their dogs.

Posted by: iamnotachef at May 26, 2008 05:34 PM (nwJit)

71 Olmert is the PM of Israel.  He can release Israeli secrets.  Carter is not the Israeli PM. He can't reveal Israel's secrets.

Is that too deep for you?

Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 05:34 PM (WWkFI)

72 ex-President divulging information he was given, secret information

Unless you have information that Carter's statement was based on classified information rather than publicly available estimates, you are talking out of your ass or violating classification rules yourself.  I'd bet you're just talking out of your ass rather than speaking on the basis of classified knowledge.

Americans have no obligation to keep other countries' secrets, unless they are similarly classified under NATO or other authority.


Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 05:44 PM (kEbop)

73 For a guy who got his ass kicked by the Iranians, Jimmy now wants to kiss theirs. As for being "rational", since when is a desire to accelerate the second coming been considered "rational". I'll take a Russian atheist over a Muslim Imam any day.

Posted by: GarandFan at May 26, 2008 05:45 PM (eJ32B)

74 Jimmy Carter: Case study of the world's most extreme Stockholm syndrome sufferer. Iran held his presidency hostage and these many years later, he's still fellating it.

It'd be nice to say I'm at a loss for words for this latest revelation from Peanut Brain, but honestly... who expected anything less? And when do we get to see this guy wearing a permanent ankle bracelet?

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 26, 2008 05:48 PM (Uy68a)

75 So, icus,  if President Bush knows Israel actually has 153 nukes, it's just fine for him to come out and correct Carter in public?




Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 05:55 PM (WWkFI)

76 I hate Jimmy Carter with the hate of a thousand suns. He should STFU and DIAF. For starters.

Posted by: Muskwa at May 26, 2008 05:56 PM (qPRcv)

77 "Do they want to commit suicide? I would guess not."

UHHHH Yes. Yes they do you idiot. Muslims all over the world do it all the time. Where have you been for the last 50+ years you moron?

Posted by: V5 at May 26, 2008 05:57 PM (ipQtT)

78 Like when those Blackwater guys in Fallujah happened to drive into an enraged mob in Fallujah protesting after Israel killed Shaikh Yassin.

So, the poor Falujah folks just happen to kill BW guys because they are righteously enraged by Israeli Evil Apartheid Nazis who dared to kill a master terrorist? It's normal to kill random people because of their association when you are enraged.

Thanks, you have just reminded me why i hate you lefties more than i hate OBL.

Posted by: Ontarius at May 26, 2008 05:58 PM (izJNd)

79 Hey, icus! Do you need a shovel?

Because, I mean, you're doing fine with your hands, but I'm here to help if you want to get it over with.

Posted by: Merovign at May 26, 2008 06:01 PM (yi5TD)

80 I believe that if we send Mr. Bean to Iran, as an Embassador of Goodwill, we can reclaim the moral high ground.

Posted by: Barry Obama at May 26, 2008 06:01 PM (gjLdu)

81 .<- The Point icus

Really, you are just being aggressively obtuse now. Ordinary Americans are not given access to the type of information on our allies military capability that a President is. With that access comes the implied understanding that you will keep it secret and not divulge it. This comes as a surprise to exactly one person here, you. That might tell you something, sparky.

Tell me something, how do you think releasing secret information on Israel is going to help super smart Carter's beloved goal of negotiating with our enemies? How does it help us? Do you think this makes other countries more or less likely to want to share secret information with our future administrations when they know that ex-Presidents may release that information to further their own agenda? Are you capable of understanding the actual issue or do you think repeating a meaningless statement about the duties of ordinary Americans is such a devastating yet irrelevant argument that dealing with the problem is not necessary? Is this the kind of deep thinking we can expect from President Obama?

You don't have to answer the last one, I think we all know the answer.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2008 06:04 PM (t+mja)

82 So, icus,  if President Bush knows Israel actually has 153 nukes, it's just fine for him to come out and correct Carter in public?

Would it really make any difference if they had 150, 153, 253 or 53?  Particularly if you didn't know the yields - what mix of 10-ton, 10 kiloton, 400 KT, 10 megatons, 100 megatons, or whatever?

eman, do you understand that everyone who knows anything (morons here obviously excluded) knows Israel has a lot of nukes?

Their delivery systems (sublaunched cruise missiles, Jericho missiles, F-15s) are also well known.

Fake outrage over well-reported but incomplete information is stupid. 


Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 06:11 PM (kEbop)

83 Jack Straw, if you think that Israel has "shared" any information about their real nuclear capabilities with the US you are totally ignorant.

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 06:14 PM (kEbop)

84 Jack Straw, if you think that Israel has "shared" any information about their real nuclear capabilities with the US you are totally ignorant.

Of course not.  You know how secretive 'those people' are.

Posted by: Stinky Esposito at May 26, 2008 06:28 PM (fLRDi)

85 icus,
You are the one who does not know the difference between an estimate and a fact.
You also have no clue about how rights need to be balanced against responsibilities.
You have an insect-like grasp of the reasons why people in high places are required to keep secrets.
You lack the elementary faculties needed by someone who can be trusted with important information. 
Your feeble attempts to convince us that you are not a blithering idiot have failed.





Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 06:28 PM (WWkFI)

86 At first it was amazing to me to see a leftist, the ones that keep complaining we mistreat allies and act arrogant, disregarding world opinion and the feelings of other countries, defend an idiot spewing state secrets of another nation in public.

Then I realized we were just talking about joos and it all made sense to me.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2008 06:30 PM (7QZfU)

87 Icus, since clearly all that was too difficult for you to understand, try this:

What power on earth would cause any ally of ours to share any national secret with our security forces now?

Posted by: qrstuv at May 26, 2008 06:42 PM (GemZi)

88 Under Israeli law, any discussion of the fact of Israeli nuclear weapons is a "secret."

Which is why if you do a search on the subject "israeli nuclear weapons" at jpost.com or  haaretz.com  you get nothing - they are censored and bound to go to jail if they publish anything about nukes.

eman, are you seriously saying that Americans are bound by those rules?  That because it's a "secret" under Israeli law, Americans can't discuss estimates and the fact of Israeli nukes?

It may be that the unclassified estimates are the same as the classified estimates.  And they are estimates - there is no way Israel has given a precise number like "150" to the USA.   If that were the case, Carter making a statement based on unclassified estimates is in no way wrong.


Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 06:46 PM (kEbop)

89 icus, I'm going to make one more attempt and if you are still incapable of grasping the point I'll let you keep hitting yourself.

Israel has never publicly acknowledged that they have any nukes. Their official policy is to not comment on it. Living in a neighborhood that can at best be called hostile to their very existence, they believe it is best to be ambiguous about what their weapons and capabilities actually are. It is their country, they do as they see fit.

But you should know that they take this very seriously. Ask Mordechai Vanunu. You might remember the calls for Sec of Def Gates resignation when he alluded to Israel having nukes when he briefed the Senate a while back. They just don't talk about the issue and don't want their strongest ally doing it either.

Your antipathy toward Israel is obvious. But you might want to consider that supporting a strong relationship between the US and Israel is important not just because Israel is the one truly open and free country in a region dominated by theocracy and despots but also because Israel is one of our staunchest allies anywhere. They have provided us with invaluable intelligence and military assistance. They have taken the blows for the west and taken bold steps like blowing up Saddam's French nuke plant and taking out Syria's nascent nuke operation. Their regional interests are pretty much our regional interests.

I don't believe that Israel has told us all regarding their nuclear capabilities nor would I expect them to. I do expect that they brief our senior political and military leaders on much. And if they ask us to respect their policy of secrecy and silence on the issue, particularly ex-Presidents who's words command respect and attention because of the office, I think we should keep our damn mouth's shut.

Is that really too complex for you to understand?

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2008 06:48 PM (t+mja)

90 And let's get straight what Carter said:

"The US has more than 12,000 nuclear weapons; the Soviet Union (sic) has about the same; Great Britain and France have several hundred, and Israel has 150 or more," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7420573.stm

Now, do you think that the "Soviet Union" (now that's a gaffe) has shared it's "secrets" with the USA and by proxy to Carter?

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 06:52 PM (kEbop)

91 Which is why if you do a search on the subject "israeli nuclear weapons" at jpost.com or  haaretz.com  you get nothing - they are censored and bound to go to jail if they publish anything about nukes.

eman, are you seriously saying that Americans are bound by those rules?  That because it's a "secret" under Israeli law, Americans can't discuss estimates and the fact of Israeli nukes?

Hey, icus, then you won't mind if Israeli ex-president/PM reveals classified information about US secret weapons projects, information he acquired by working with US intel? Or is your antisemitic brain uncapable of grasping such complex notions?

Posted by: Ontarius at May 26, 2008 06:55 PM (izJNd)

92 I'm sorry, but did that say he was speaking at the Hay Festival???  Wow.  There's an international forum for great minds to expound on their personal knowledge of world affairs. 

Posted by: Kay at May 26, 2008 06:56 PM (Wn04P)

93 It's like trying to teach a dog how to read. 

The technique is not the problem.



Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 07:03 PM (WWkFI)

94

Icus can't tell the difference between the statements of an ex-President of the United States (never mind how the F that happened--the President part, we thankfully know how the ex- part happened) and say, a Letterman top ten list. 

And that windy road to Plame, Blackwater and serious borders (which would like 1948, 1967, 1998, or...wait for it...the Hamas variant) is some seriously deranged lefty/Israeli hating/C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y stuff.

A proud part of singularity of the stupid this one is.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 26, 2008 07:04 PM (PIZd3)

95 Or is your antisemitic brain uncapable of grasping such complex notions?

Yeah, I was waiting for the "antisemitic" charge.  Say anything against Israeli government actions . . . . it follows.  Even if you're Jewish.

I'm still waiting to hear some outrage about how Carter also revealed British, French, US and "Soviet" nuclear numbers.

Let me put it this way: one country can't declare a subject to be "secret" and out of bounds for the rest of the world to discuss.

I know you morons lean to the authoritarian style, but that's too much for any American to accept.



Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 07:22 PM (kEbop)

96 Let me put it this way: one country can't declare a subject to be "secret" and out of bounds for the rest of the world to discuss.

The stupid is strong in this one.

Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 07:28 PM (WWkFI)

97 The stupid is strong in this one.

Do you have anything substantial to say, or only moronic grunting?

Hello??  Let me repeat it for the tenth time.  There is no evidence that what Carter said was "secret" under US law, based on secret briefings by Israeli or others.  It is the same number as many unclassified estimates and also pretty much what Mordechai Vanunu said.   Under Israeli law, maybe it's secret, but so is Gabriel Malor's post and many of the comments which follow.

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 07:34 PM (kEbop)

98 Jimmy Carter - Iran's bitch™

Posted by: Larry the Kable guy at May 26, 2008 07:46 PM (n3pxb)

99 I agree with Icus. Carter made the number up, doesn't have a fucking clue what he's talking about (He's consistent that way), and undoubtedly said it for no other reason that to hurt Israel. Ergo, no crime.

Posted by: Ted K. at May 26, 2008 07:52 PM (NdtWi)

100

You guys are too harsh with icus- he makes some good points. The existence of Israeli nukes has been an open secret for some years now, with the Israelis being the last to (plausibly) deny it. As for numbers, they could have 5 or 15 or 50 or 150 or 1500 warheads... it doesn't really matter and JC doesn't have a real clue. He knows- and the rest of the world knows- exactly what Tel Aviv wants the world to believe, capisce?

Icus is not an anti-semite for questioning the openness or veracity of statements made by the Israeli gummint. Those folks are politicians and are as venal and corrupt as any in the world (and I know whereof I speak). I have been a supporter of Israel all my life and have an extensive library that chronicles the state from 1948 to the present...

Perspective, people! Posting personal insults because the fellow you disagree with- and who disagrees with you- belittles only yourself.

 

Posted by: Neffi at May 26, 2008 07:59 PM (3gnrK)

101 >>You guys are too harsh with icus- he makes some good points.

No, we aren't and no, he doesn't.

The most important point, which icus demonstrates not to be able to grasp, is that what Carter has done has damaged the US. This has nothing to do with US law or Israeli law. Only icus has tried to make that claim. This has to do with having important allies trust us and be willing to share important intelligence with us. The President of the US has a unique responsibility both during and after his term. He is entrusted with sensitive information and he is viewed by the world as a spokesman for us and representative of our views. When that person, as Carter has, demonstrates that he is reckless and untrustworthy it damages all of us and weakens our standing.

It makes not a particle of difference whether the world assumes Israel does or does not have nukes. Their policy is to not comment on the topic. A good ally would respect that policy as it costs us nothing but earns us trust and respect.

This isn't even close. What Carter did was wrong and hurtful to the US. Allowing some numb fuck like icus to try and pretend this is an argument about the rights of Americans to speak their minds would be intellectually dishonest.

Besides, I'm hung over and bored. Somebody must pay.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2008 08:18 PM (t+mja)

102

 He is entrusted with sensitive information and he is viewed by the world as a spokesman for us and representative of our views.

Koff koff gag.... I dunno, Jack. Only those who already follow that path consider JC a spokesman for the U.S. The rest consider him a hack- though I believe him a good and honorable man, and the kind you'd want for a neighbor. He just couldn't make it as The Most Powerful Man in the World. Way too far out of his league.

Posted by: Neffi at May 26, 2008 08:31 PM (3gnrK)

103 Besides, I'm hung over and bored. Somebody must pay.

I was hungover yesterday, and I read this article about hangovers and the search for a cure.  There is no cure.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/05/26/080526fa_fact_acocella

I guess you think being an ex-president out of office for 28 years means that people are going to think you speak for the US government of the opposing party now, or that you have to deny the obvious.  What Carter said was not much different than what Gates said, and Gates IS a part of the USG now.  I can't imagine how what Carter said was in any way "hurtful to the US."

How did stating a fact that the whole world pretty much knows - that Israel has 150 nukes or more -  "harm the US?" 

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 08:38 PM (kEbop)

104

The President of the US has a unique responsibility both during and after his term.

Therin lies the problem, Jackstraw.  As soon as you start talking about responsiblities, leftists begin screeching about rights.

They don't understand the difference.  They never will.

Posted by: Warden at May 26, 2008 08:47 PM (TX662)

105 Whether or not something is considered an "open secret" doesn't change the fact that anyone with a security clearance is NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT IT, unless and until they have been informed, by someone in a authorized position to know, that it is no longer classified.

There are still things I cannot and will not talk about from the classified stuff I learned in the military. Even if those particular bits of data have been published on the front page of the NYTimes (above the fold), I STILL cannot talk about them because I haven't been informed that the information has been legitimately and legally declassified.

Jimmy Carter knows this, having been both a Naval Academy graduate (clearly the shame of all grads since) and the worst fucking President in our history. Even if Olmert mentions the existence of nuclear weapons in the possession of Israel, that does NOT release Jimmeh from his professional obligation to keep his fucking yap shut. Failure to do so has materially harmed the reputation of the United States and made the relationship just that much worse between our countries. At the margin, he has caused material harm to our national security, and tried to harm the security of an allied nation by releasing secrets he had no authorization to declassify. And making it just that less likely that they will be willing to release secrets of that magnitude to future Heads of State...

Even if he was wrong on the number, it simply wasn't his place to say.

Now, if that is not clear to the "Jews don't have the right to keep secrets, so long as there is an American willing to reveal those secrets" asshat in this thread, nothing will ever make it so.

Posted by: Drumwaster at May 26, 2008 08:50 PM (XsUr0)

106 icus,

I know secrets from an old job of mine that are by now probably harmless to reveal.  But, I will not do so because I still respect the trust that was placed in me.

You and Jimmy Carter just don't get it. 



Posted by: eman at May 26, 2008 08:51 PM (WWkFI)

107 Very often speaking the truth is a responsibility.


Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 08:52 PM (kEbop)

108

Very often speaking the truth is a responsibility.

Wow.  Deep.  Please explain to everyone how Jimmy Carter had the responsiblity to reveal or speculate about Israel's nuclear weapons capability.

 

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Warden at May 26, 2008 08:54 PM (TX662)

109

It's time for them to make a serious proposal to draw boundaries and get out of the occupation business, instead of incrementally grabbing Arab land.

Okay I was prepared to treat Icus as a serious poster until I read this comment. This is so at odds with the actual reality during the Oslo Accords in the mid to late 90's that Icus must have been in a coma during that period.

Icus may or may not be anti-semitic, but he does seem to be an anti-Israel bigot.

Posted by: Maetenloch (not a maniac) at May 26, 2008 08:56 PM (FLlCI)

110 Carter was dumped by the US electorate. Bitter ever since. He is only a propaganda tool  now for Jihadists( sorry Condi). In the bigger picture he is irrelevant..The more nukes Israel has the better. I'm sure the Arab states already  knew  each one by name.

Posted by: mytralman at May 26, 2008 08:56 PM (k+clE)

111 There are still things I cannot and will not talk about from the classified stuff I learned in the military. Even if those particular bits of data have been published on the front page of the NYTimes (above the fold), I STILL cannot talk about them because I haven't been informed that the information has been legitimately and legally declassified.

That's a joke.  Just about everything is classified in some daily products which contain shit like "Prime Minister of Lower Slobovia faces re-election trouble," which as you say is also in the NYT. 

At the risk of contradicting Jimmy Carter, offending you and breaking security regulations, let me clue you in on something once classified: the Soviet Union is in trouble.

Also, why all the outrage about his speaking about Israeli nukes, when he also cited to (vague) estimates of US, British, French and "Soviet" nukes.

As far as "harming the relationship" with Israel goes, that's a joke.  As if Israel is going to repudiate the US because of Carter's mentioning of the nukes, or will not act in its sole interests vis a vis the US when it deems necessary (Pollard).


Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 09:05 PM (kEbop)

112 >>Koff koff gag.... I dunno, Jack. Only those who already follow that path consider JC a spokesman for the U.S.

Christ on a cracker. Are some of you really unaware how the world works?

In the middle east, we are first and foremost involved in a battle of ideas against an enemy who clearly understands the power of words and how to sway public opinion. Carter's words will be trumpeted from Damascus to Syria as proof of the lying Zionists and their puppet masters, the Great Satan. Bank on it.

It's really funny how lefty's whine about the right being nothing but religious nuts who try to rule through fear and lies when the asshats in the middle east really are religious nuts who rule through fear and lies. It doesn't matter how we view Carter, he will be framed as a US leader by our enemies. A truth to power speaker as icus would say. His statements calling the blockade of Gaza a human rights crime, saying Bush could be tried for war crimes and speaking about secret Israeli weapons will be used by our enemies as "proof" of our evil ways and that Iran deserves to have nukes.

This is not a benign incident. Watch and see.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2008 09:06 PM (t+mja)

113 Damascus to Syria

Damascus to Tehran ... there's got to be some alcohol around here somewhere.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2008 09:13 PM (t+mja)

114 Plenty of alcohol in Damascus, Beirut, Amman, Cairo and Baghdad.

Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 09:16 PM (kEbop)

115 Icus, why would anyone trust the US with their national secrets after this?

You ignore this point like you think it doesn't matter.

Posted by: qrstuv at May 26, 2008 09:34 PM (GemZi)

116 Just about everything is classified in some daily products which contain shit like "Prime Minister of Lower Slobovia faces re-election trouble," which as you say is also in the NYT.

Since it is clear that you have never held a security clearance at ANY grade, I will explain how it works.

Security clearances are only half of the picture. There is the other half, called "need to know". There is also the fact that a largish document (such as a Presidential Daily Briefing) will contain much information that will require a lower level of security than others. In classified documents, each paragraph can be, and often is, classified separately.

For instance, in one document classified "Confidential" I read (a training course about radar systems) there were references to various electrical formulae first posited many decades ago by the legends in that field (Watt, Ampere, Faraday, etc.). Those formulae were not classified, but other bits of data in the book WERE, and so the document AS A WHOLE is given the highest level of classification required to protect the most sensitive data included in that document. The PDB is usually highly classified not because of the open availability of most of the data (which can be mirrored on the front pages of many newspapers) but because of data that is NOT so open, plus the sources and methods used. (Knowing where - and who - spies are, or where the satellites are pointed, is a VERY ticklish business.)

That having been said, Jimmeh has a positive obligation as the holder of a security clearance to SHUT THE F*CK UP when talking about sensitive data to people not cleared to know that data.

As far as "harming the relationship" with Israel goes, that's a joke.

No joke. Just because you think that Da Joooooz run everything in the world doesn't make it right or proper to release something that is still clearly sensitive.

And just because something may have been promulgated does not make it any less of a secret, because until it has been confirmed, it might not be accurate.

Case in point: It has been an open secret for many years that many Navy warships have been equipped with nuclear weapons. But which ones, and at what times, is a highly classified secret. Saying that (say) a Spruance-class Destroyer is capable of carrying - and firing - nuclear-tipped Tomahawk missiles does not tell anyone where those specific Tomahawks are.

You are arguing that because Jane's Defense Weekly mentioned that Spru-cans are nuclear-tipped Tomahawk capable, that it is okay for a traitorous scumbag to report exactly where those missiles are. The two issues are not the same.

That secret was Israel's to divulge, and while you may naively think that Carter did no damage, you still fail to grasp the fact that he had not only no right to talk about this (data that has been classified by an ally to the United States), he had an active and ongoing obligation (because of his stint as a Naval Officer and as President) to keep his lip zipped regarding ANYTHING that might be classified.

His choice to ignore those obligations was a violation of American law, since it is his position of trust in the American Government that allowed him access to that information in the first place.

And I also specifically referred to "at the margin" - a phrase you didn't - and clearly cannot - understand.

Why are you so willing to give Jimmy a pass at violating the security clearance he once held? It was not his place to say anything. He did so, knowing that he was breaking the law. (And don't try the "how could he know that Israel was keeping their nuclear weapons program secret?" nonsense, because it has ALWAYS been closely held, even before he was mistakenly elected. And ignorance of the law is no excuse.)

Posted by: Drumwaster at May 26, 2008 09:42 PM (XsUr0)

117 I haven't read anything from icus since his "occupation" comment that convinces me he/she/it is arguing in good faith. You're arguing with yourselves on the semantic shifts by a demagogue. Just my 2 cents

Posted by: Frank G at May 26, 2008 09:54 PM (Ydps9)

118 Oh yeah this is way past the point of discussion with a rational person interested in reason and learning. He's just throwing crap up there hoping it will stick.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2008 10:13 PM (7QZfU)

119

Does Carter have a security clearance now?  I can't see why he should.  He certainly has no need for one, as he has no official position or assignment with our government.  If any Israeli official told Carter classified (by Israel) information, Shin Bet needs to have a stern talk with him because telling Carter any sensitive Israeli information is tantamount to handing it to the Iranian UN mission in person. 

It's extremely likely he got the number that he cited from an open-source estimate--such as Jane's or IISS.  The number that was bandied about in 1991 was about 100 warheads.  

It's obvious that he said what he said because he wishes ill towards Israel and also wants to embarrass the current Administration -- for which he should be roundly criticized.  But I don't actually think he revealed actual classifed information, because I don't think anyone is actually dumb enough to give it to him.

Posted by: Simon Oliver Lockwood at May 26, 2008 10:33 PM (ENJAB)

120 do you think that the "Soviet Union" (now that's a gaffe) has shared it's "secrets" with the USA

Given that we've been assisting the Russians (for several years now) with dismantling/disposing of a lot of that cold war hardware, the answer is probably yes.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 26, 2008 10:38 PM (08Ul4)

121 I've been been following this thread with a mild interest.  You do realize that this line of discussion, my fellow Acers, has been more or less high- jacked by icus. 

Granted, he/she is more elegant in his articulation than those gibbering idiots over at the Kos, but message is the same. 

'All is permissible for the greater good.'  And what is the greater good?

Whatever we think it is you ignorant, crass fools.  Silly lumpenproletariat, rules are for chumps. 

Established customs? Boundaries of permissible behavior?  Maintenance of shared confidences?  Ha, you silly children; you know nothing of the 'real' world.

The fact that he's a worthless piece of shit is besides the fact.  Carter was a President; with that title comes with a level of credibility and automatic attentiveness that is granted to few living humans. 

That people, is power; power that Carter has systematically abused.

The office and title come with a level of responsibility that does not end with one's term of service.  Carter's fidelity to those responsibilities has been 'irregular' at best.

Your mistake, my friends, is assuming that icus has even the slightest understanding of these issues, let alone they're to be acknowledged as germane to Carters' conduct.

The best course of action when faced with a pernicious, clueless twit like icus...is to utterly and completely ignore him.  A troll clever with words is still a troll.  Ignore him.
 

Posted by: CPT. Charles at May 26, 2008 11:00 PM (fenBi)

122 Consider also that the cavalier method in which Carter 1) tosses a rather significant "secret" about an ally and 2) tosses away general protocol to 1) prop he and his ego up and 2) to attempt to reassert his relevance in the modern age (by scoring political points with Bush antagonists) is an indicator of his desperation. This was a public statement for public consumption. Now just what the hell is he conceding to these enemies behind closed doors? Does anyone think Carter is spreading Israeli/allied misinformation to confuse those who hate the U.S.? Not bloody likely. If he can help leverage our enemies against the current administration, I'll bet he'd do it even if he did it unintentionally out of his self-important misconception that his diplomacy skills are worth diddly-squat. (You know - the Nobel Peace Prize and all.)

Jimmy the Dhimmi is not a smear too far off the mark.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 26, 2008 11:12 PM (Uy68a)

123 Where did icus go?

I bet his mom told him to put his retainer on and go to bed.

Posted by: MrsPaulsFishSticks at May 26, 2008 11:25 PM (PBGAP)

124 Claritin helps prevent hangovers.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2008 11:28 PM (JO0c/)

125 Where did icus go?

Watching the game.  There are better things than moronblogs.

I haven't read anything from icus since his "occupation" comment that convinces me he/she/it is arguing in good faith.

"Occupation" is what Israel in the West Bank is called under international law, the same as the formal term of the "occupation" of Berlin until 1990 or so, or the occupation of Iraq under the Coalition Provisional Authority authorized by the UN security council.   When you invade territory and do not make a claim of annexation, you are "occupying " it under international law.

It's extremely likely he (Carter) got the number that he cited from an open-source estimate--such as Jane's or IISS.  The number that was bandied about in 1991 was about 100 warheads. 

Absolutely.  So tell me how it's a big secret again, especially since Olmert confirmed Israeli nukes, and Gates mentioned them.  Should Gates resign, be prosecuted, etc?  I think not, but you should explain the difference between what Gates said and what Carter said.

For instance, in one document classified "Confidential" I read (a training course about radar systems)

Sounds to me like you're blabbing way too much about your clearance and what you know.



Posted by: icus at May 26, 2008 11:53 PM (kEbop)

126 Sounds to me like you're blabbing way too much about your clearance and what you know.

Once again, proving that you are a clueless twit who has never held any position of trust under any kind of rational standard. (Being allowed to post at leftist sites is specifically excluded under the definition of "rational".)

You wouldn't know classified data if it climbed up your leg and shit on the end of your nose. Carter should, and whether you think he had the right to do what he did or not, and whether he gave out accurate or up-to-date information is totally irrelevant, it's what he was trying to do. His motive in giving out the information, IOW. Since he had once been a President, he knew what kind of information had been held closely by an American ally, and what the reasons for keeping that information secret actually were.

He knowingly chose to give out information he believed was classified and that he had no authority to declassify.

And while Carter may currently now have no "need to know", and no legitimate reason to be briefed on sensitive data, he still has his original clearance, since he has access to papers in the National Archives that are classified. Just like Sandy "Sock Stuffer" Burger.

This is a first-year law school puzzle, along the lines of someone wanting to murder a random stranger in a park, and choosing to pump a few bullets into a man apparently dozing on a bench. It doesn't legally matter that the intended victim had died moments earlier of a heart attack, it's the mens rea - the "guilty state of mind". Even though Carter clearly has no conscience (just like any sociopathic personality), he had to be aware that he was revealing data he had no right to reveal.


Posted by: Drumwaster at May 27, 2008 12:40 AM (XsUr0)

127 Once again, proving that you are a clueless twit who has never held any position of trust under any kind of rational standard.

Maybe, but if I did, I wouldn't be talking about my clearances and acting like having been an OS2 and reading an SPS-49 tech manual or whatever made me some Secret Squirrel expert on classification procedure.  I'd have more discretion than that.

He knowingly chose to give out information he believed was classified and that he had no authority to declassify.

I'm surprised you can read Carter's mind.  I would think that if he was repeating open-source estimates available from many sources, he most assuredly did NOT think it was classified.  Any more than you or I or anyone discussing open source material has to stop talking about it.  Classification is often more about sources and methods than the actual information. 




Posted by: icus at May 27, 2008 12:59 AM (kEbop)

128 How interesting. It almost resembles reasoning. Almost.

Posted by: davis,br at May 27, 2008 01:12 AM (7QgFP)

129

"I'm surprised you can read Carter's mind."

Admittedly it takes a high-powered microscope.

Posted by: Gary Rosen at May 27, 2008 01:13 AM (sHuCu)

130 So Carter openly provides the number of nuclear weapons in Israel's arsenal. Why is this a problem?

Posted by: Matt Gerber at May 27, 2008 04:17 AM (T4vk0)

131

Why does Jimmy Carter think that anyone gives a fuck what he has to say?

FWIW, I support Israel whwole-heartedly. The idea of them having a well-stocked nuclear arsenal warms my heart. I say they should avail themselves of any opportunity to kill their enemies- those goat-fucking savages have it coming on general principle.

Posted by: along came flying spaghetti monsters at May 27, 2008 06:16 AM (KOkrW)

132 Why is this a problem?

Because it isn't his place to say. He had no authority to divulge ANY classified information, and a positive obligation to not do so. Even if the information was inaccurate or out of date, he was still revealing information he had no right to divulge and a positive obligation to not do so. (I repeat this because people seem to keep missing this point.)

I'd have more discretion than that.

Congratulations. You can Google. I was an OS2, and worked with air search radars. (You forgot the SPS-10 and the SPQ-9 surface search systems.) However, my knowledge of security procedures comes from the stuff not related to operating radars, and a clearance much higher than the one I started out with.

Why can't you Google the most basic facts about the WHY of security clearances? Try looking for "SF-312 non disclosure agreements".

From the Wiki entry on SF-312: "SF 312 prohibits confirming or repeating classified information to unauthorized individuals, even if that information is already leaked." Do you get it? Are you mentally capable of understanding that I don't have to read Carter's mind to know that he broke the law? You can shout all you want about it being "open-source", and I'd dispute even that. Carter still violated an order he had to have known about.


Posted by: Drumwaster at May 27, 2008 08:12 AM (XsUr0)

133 Read it for yourself, you fucking moron...

http://www.uscg.mil/forms/sf/SF_312.pdf


Posted by: Drumwaster at May 27, 2008 08:18 AM (XsUr0)

134 carter was and still is a doofus as stupid as he always has been its a good thing he only lasted one term becuase he was such a jerk

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at May 27, 2008 10:34 AM (V38OD)

135 OS2, that's why you don't blab about your clearances and what material you had access to: it's easy to extrapolate.

I'm also impressed on your quoting Wikipedia on what is and isn't classified. 

Obviously, if the fact and estimates of Israeli nukes were as classified as you described and your quote from Wiki were true, that Air War College paper I link to, from an af.mil website, would be in violation of classification rules, and the Army Lt. Col. who wrote it should be prosecuted.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

Posted by: icus at May 27, 2008 10:43 AM (kEbop)

136 Also, OS2, if I were with the Defense Security Service and I thought you still had a clearance, I'd be initiating an investigation as to whether you should lose it for blabbing about your clearance and what materials you had access to, which combined with other stuff like your blog gave me a good picture of what you knew.


Posted by: icus at May 27, 2008 10:52 AM (kEbop)

137 I'm really looking forward to Carter's becoming eligible for one of those new dollar coins.

Posted by: David Gillies at May 27, 2008 11:10 AM (2FZO3)

138 Thank you, Jimmy, for ensuring that I will no longer be remembered as America's worst President ever.

Posted by: James Buchanan at May 27, 2008 11:13 AM (Yi1Sk)

139 Ahh ...I've changed my mind after that last bit: the appearance of reasoning wasn't, apparently, even a case of form, let alone function.

Posted by: davis,br at May 27, 2008 04:04 PM (7QgFP)

140 Also, OS2, if I were with the Defense Security Service and I thought you still had a clearance, I'd be initiating an investigation as to whether you should lose it for blabbing about your clearance and what materials you had access to, which combined with other stuff like your blog gave me a good picture of what you knew.

Take your best shot, you microcephalic know-nothing. I've shit bigger men than you.

I'm also impressed on your quoting Wikipedia on what is and isn't classified. 

Because you aren't cleared to see the official stuff, you dumb fuck. You still haven't explained where Jimmy derives his declassification authority for Israeli secrets. Or why - since he doesn't have one - you seem to be giving him a pass on violating security laws.

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